assassination

[dense fox]

Got a dumb question. Just recently changed to assinate from Outlaw. What I noticed right off the bat is whenever I go stealth; I nearly instat pop out of it bc Indiscriminate Carnage, Improve Garrote, Master Assassin, and Subterfuge pop on as a buff. Am I not really aloud to stealth around in this spec?

[waxen oyster]

and then the golds of bota and pb

Bota,pb, from the shadows

whew assa golds were

[main bridge]

they don't do that AFAIK

[balmy condor]

What do you mean by instant pop out

[main bridge]

if you have some kind of DoT or bleed you will be removed from stealth though

[quartz kelp]

could also be the belt proc

[waxen oyster]

do priests not pws you to stop being knocked from stealth

[dense fox]

I go into stealth but do to this procs, come out of it

[waxen oyster]

maybe this is only a pvp disc brain thing

[dense fox]

These are buffs going off

[balmy condor]

What is proccing though

[dense fox]

Indiscrminate Carnage, Improve Garrote, Master Assassin, and Subterfuge.

Maybe they are not the cause of me coming out of stealth but whenever I go into stealth they proc

[main bridge]

those buffs don't take you out of stealth

something else is happening

[quartz kelp]

they just start when u leave stealth ye

[rotund oak]

[dense fox]

Ok, you are right @main bridge I still have the proc but I am not coming out of it. hmmmm.

[runic hinge]

what belt disc are you using

[main bridge]

yeah i'm gonna guess it's the charged bolt module

[dense fox]

I got Thunderlord's crackling, undersea overseer's citrine, windsinger's runed citrine

[main bridge]

that's your ring

we're talking about belt

[dense fox]

I got nothing on the belt

[main bridge]

those gems are wrong also, though

[balmy condor]

So far there’s nothing that would remove you from stealth

[maiden sierra]

@balmy condor with the lack of class changes for assassination, i am happy to assume youre putting all your time and effort into the next patch bis list

[main bridge]

are you sure? if you are using the new delve belt, it uses Charged Bolts by default which will take you out of stealth

you cannot have "nothing"

[waxen oyster]

using the damage gems on circlet

wtf

[main bridge]

ya you should fix your ring gems

[dense fox]

Just coming back to the game and just threw crap on it

lol

[pliant remnant]

Chad

Why bother looking up which ones to use

Just throw shit at it

[dense fox]

The belt is not the issue, took it off and tried, still have the issue

[maiden sierra]

am i doing the whole flirting thing correct?

[main bridge]

that won't fix anything if you are using charged bolts. right click on the belt and look at which module it is using

oh maybe you meant you have the problem without the belt equipped

but still i think it uses an aura buff

so that might not be a good test

[dense fox]

yes I dont have a belt that has modules. I must have missed something

[main bridge]

oh so you don't have the new delve belt?

[dense fox]

some content that I have yet to do

no

[main bridge]

gotcha

does your combat log tell you anything?

[dense fox]

oo good call, let me check

nothing

[main bridge]

weird. maybe you can make a video?

or if you can log it happening that could help too

i'm curious

[dense fox]

Ill try and log it, its been a while though

[runic hinge]

Are you using any macro for stealth?

[warm raft]

Speaking of macros is there any macros that will prio mouse over for rupture but if i dont want to just hit the target i am on that it will still work?

[dense fox]

no

[crude helm]

/cast [@mouseover,nodead,harm][] Rupture

[warm raft]

Thanks i will give it a try

[dense fox]

I really think its Subterfuge, I changed spec to Outlaw and it still procs and imidiately come out of stealth

[main bridge]

then talent out of it to prove your theory

lots of other people use it and don't have this problem though

[dense fox]

Does it just proc randomly? Bc that is what is happening to me

[main bridge]

doesn't seem very random

[coral ibex]

subterfuge doesn't affect being in stealth

it doesn't take you out of stealth

[dense fox]

Well something is procing it while I just stand there.

[coral ibex]

being in stealth and then leaving stealth activates subterfuge

it isn't what is breaking stealth

[hollow frost]

Are you double tapping stealth? Hitting the button a second time cancels the aura if you don't have the macro.

[coral ibex]

record a video of it happening

[dense fox]

ok

[coral ibex]

otherwise we're just grasping at straws

make sure all your keybinds are shown

[dense fox]

I agree, thank you

Another noob question, how do get that video to you guys?

[main bridge]

https://streamable.com/?v=1.0.24 perhaps

[dense fox]

Cool, thank you. Too big of a file

[main bridge]

unlucky. might have to reduce the resolution or quality

[dense fox]

think ur right

https://streamable.com/rdljz4

[main bridge]

that is super weird

[dense fox]

Yea, dont know

[fallow canopy]

what keybind do you use for stealth?

[dense fox]

q

[main bridge]

is it possible you are pressing it again or your keyboard has crumbs in it?

also curious if you can reproduce it with all addons disabled

my inner debugger is engaged

[dense fox]

that is with all the addons disabled. I use ELVUI

[worn geyser]

if u change keybind to like mouse4 does it happen

[dense fox]

Ill try that

I have always used the "q" button and never had an issue, until coming back now lol

[fallow canopy]

was thinking something like that, an accidental press because it is just weird

you are not even getting in combat

[worn geyser]

do you have a rapid trigger/wooting kb, i had same thing happen to me since it would spam E at the slightest touch /bump and insta unstealth me

had to change to spammable stealth button with !stealth macro

[dense fox]

I dont think its crumbs in the q button, bc Subterfuge is STILL procing everytime stealth is broken

[worn geyser]

thats what it does

[fallow canopy]

that's how the talent works

[dense fox]

So something is procing that, along with taking me out

[worn geyser]

no

[fallow canopy]

you leave stealth and subterfuge activates not the other way around

[main bridge]

i think you should abandon the idea that this is a talent problem

[worn geyser]

something is taking u out, which is then procxing subterfuge

[fallow canopy]

I would just try the !stealth macro

and see if it works

[dense fox]

ill try that. Is the command?

[hollow river]

leaving stealth IS what procs it

[dense fox]

I see

[hollow river]

#showtooltip
/cast !stealth```

just make a macro of that and put it on your bars

[dense fox]

Yup. I think you are right. I didnt know stealth is procing Sub, That something proc sub and the something took me out

[hollow river]

if that fixes it, then its a keyboard hardware/software issue

[dense fox]

nope, still came out of it

I can put a ticket in and see if that is something

[main bridge]

i doubt you'll get anything useful from that

[hollow river]

[main bridge]

you'll likely get an AI response telling you to use wowhead

[dense fox]

damn, let me take off all my gear and see what happens

that will at least help narrow it down

Ok, it is gear related, now issue just wearing the void elf thong

[main bridge]

the plot thickens!

i wonder what gear could do this

[fallow canopy]

What gear do you have?

[dense fox]

that will take a bit to write out lol

[fallow canopy]

I remember the sark cloak could get you out of stealth but thats ancient

[fallow canopy]

Screenshot?

[coral ibex]

it would have to be something that has a damage proc on it

[dense fox]

Its the Circlet with the wrong gem thingies

[runic hinge]

Makes sense

[worn geyser]

lmao

[main bridge]

haha

[dense fox]

shit now it wont do it lol

just did few secs ago

Nope, I was wrong the weapons

[outer arrow]

going into the new patch/season, I'm coming back to the game, with the intention to only push m+ as far as our comp let us, i'm most familiar with sin, but heard law was getting some neat changes, and was wondering it its worth doing the switch

[main bridge]

it's good to know all the specs IMO

[dense fox]

Got Nightfall Shadowalker's Dagger with autoattacks doing additional shadow damage, and Nightfall Darkcaster's Kris with siphon a portion of their soul to gain x intellect

[haughty flicker]

its the intellect dagger

[coral ibex]

int daggers

[haughty flicker]

which you shouldnt be using anywya

[coral ibex]

why

[haughty flicker]

but yeah that breaks stealth

[main bridge]

oh no

[dense fox]

bc that is all I have with this toon

[coral ibex]

craft one

[main bridge]

you could craft or do the nightfall event and buy any dagger you want

[haughty flicker]

literally buying a boe for 20 gold would be more effective

[worn geyser]

yeah luckily we only have two rogue specs sin and sub , so easy for u to learn probably

[outer arrow]

yeah for sure, but in terms of prioritizing pieces of gear, i can only craft so many pieces

[coral ibex]

just dont use an int dagger

ever

[outer arrow]

and both specs have complete oposite stats they want

[haughty flicker]

you can very easily play assa with sub stats

[fallow canopy]

Tuning wise the patch is too far away to give you an accurate answer

[dense fox]

Very good, thank you all for helping through this thing. Feel a little stupid but glad it is figured out

[haughty flicker]

outlaw is cursed

but outlaw is outlaw so dont play it

[outer arrow]

ight

[dense fox]

That is sad, use to like outlaw in DF

[outer arrow]

sin/sub it is

[main bridge]

sub seems complicated

[outer arrow]

i liked the spec when it wasnt outlaw

[main bridge]

so many buttons

[dense fox]

Combat, right?

[outer arrow]

ye

[haughty flicker]

sub doesnt really have any more rotational buttons than assa

[golden loom]

Idk all 3 rogue specs kinda dont have any buttons at all

[fallow canopy]

Outlaw is fine btw, we just do a bit here that we hate it (it isn't a bit )

[haughty flicker]

once you learn when you have to use your cds sub is very simple

its just two dances every flag, then 2-1-2-1 outside

with an extra raw symbol somewhere in the fight

obviously that could change next tier with the extra cdr from tier but idk yet

[worn geyser]

my two alt rogues ‘removeoutlaw’ and ‘deleteoutlaw’ disagree i am full serious

[waxen oyster]

hating on mage players is better

[fallow canopy]

Based

[haughty flicker]

outlaw players are one bad day away from playing fire

[golden loom]

My outlaw alt Samiramain does a great job of farming herbs/rocks and doing transmogruns

[haughty flicker]

basically as bad as mages

[golden loom]

My sub alt parsehunter is dead in the water sadly

[outer arrow]

didnt outlaw also had an age cap due to apm? i'm also pushing that so 💀

[waxen oyster]

druids are better herb farmers

[coral ibex]

yea nobody over 30 can play outlaw

its impossible

[outer arrow]

say less

[main bridge]

after 30 you can only play BM hunter

[waxen oyster]

*ret paladin

[fallow canopy]

Thank god for obr

[haughty flicker]

so glad they finally decided to make bm an accessible spec by removing dire beast and explosive shot

[outer arrow]

[haughty flicker]

it just had too many buttons idk how anyone managed to play it

[fallow canopy]

Do you still care about barbed shot buff or is that gone as well?

Haven't played the spec in a while

[main bridge]

i think it's gone

[haughty flicker]

nah you still care

[main bridge]

not a hutner expert by any means though

[haughty flicker]

also barbed shot spreading in aoe is gonna be really big next season

but this late into the expansion you normally have enough haste that frenzy stacks dont really fall off

[fallow canopy]

[haughty flicker]

and current tier set also fired out free barbed shots so even with less haste it never fell off

[pliant remnant]

Of course Frenzy is still a thing

[waxen oyster]

ret paladins are truly a species

wings was too hard to press manually

[haughty flicker]

bm could actually be a decently interesting spec to minmax

but blizzard doesnt want it to be that way

[waxen oyster]

so they made it proc off pressing your cd

[fallow canopy]

Imagine as sub you get sb/dance and sod by pressing secret tec

[waxen oyster]

idk you cant convince me that ret isnt the old man spec

of this game

[pliant remnant]

Nah, you can't play Ret if you're old

Your carpal tunnel will go fuckin' nutso with all the Divine Storm spamming

[golden loom]

Scroll wheel divine storm big brain

[waxen oyster]

ret paladins as soon as there's more than 1 red nameplate

divine storm? yes

[main bridge]

imagine not using a foot pedal to achieve MAXIMUM APM

[waxen oyster]

i feel spammiest is still

thane prot war

[main bridge]

prot war is really fun

[waxen oyster]

it is

big dammies

[thorn thorn]

Just obr 4head

[marble sonnet]

can someone help me with envenom dmg on assa. I cant find the solution in logs, im equal in crits but have way less overall

[thorn thorn]

Post log

[austere basin]

you dont Dry shiv

it makes you have 10+ mil dmg envenom

[balmy condor]

dry shiv is like 0.6%

Idk if that's really the world-ender

[austere basin]

just a thing i spotted at the start of the log

[balmy condor]

if they're concerned about their envenom damage it's probably something bigger

[austere basin]

true that

its just something i noticed in first cd's

[marble sonnet]

Yeah I read about dry shiv and tried it but it wasnt the world, true though, thanks

[unborn wharf]

!build

[normal mist]

!bleed

[prisma monolith]

Bleed vs Hybrid vs Cleave/FI builds
Broad rules and Section in Guide:

1. If you have to ask, you should play bleed
2. If you're not doing +17's or higher (or rookery), you should play bleed

Some general concepts as to why people play different things:

• Ease of play: Bleed build is simply the easiest to play due to subterfuge/no kingsbane/less need for giant prio targets
• Boss damage: The cleave/zeross build is mainly for boss damage. Assa single target in keys is pretty bad, and the bosses would not be possible otherwise
• Specific Dungeons: Rookery as an example is very boss-heavy, especially the last boss, making bleed less ideal.
• Where the damage is: Bleed spreads out its damage and does great overall due to sudden demise and powerful 3-8 target damage. Hybrid is competitve but doesn't pull ahead until bigger AoE. Cleave is for single target damage and insanely large aoe because of how much caustic and crimson tempest carry aoe damage.

[ocean quiver]

finally finished the rogue

[main bridge]

only 680? you are not finished

[ocean quiver]

finished until I get more gear

Can't do nothing else rn

until reset

so basically finished

[waxen oyster]

holy mastery

[iron carbon]

The amount of mastery is interesting

[ocean quiver]

Good or bad?

I didn't even notice

[main bridge]

yeah i wonder how you get there

do you sim your gear?

[ocean quiver]

not since 671

💀

all this gear I had I just hadn't upgraded it

[main bridge]

uhh well that is definitely not optimal

[ocean quiver]

oh

[iron carbon]

I mean, how you got that much

[ocean quiver]

What am I gonna sim?

[main bridge]

everything

[ocean quiver]

idk tbh

[waxen oyster]

that helm is pure mastery

pretty sure

[iron carbon]

My potion is on crit atm

[ocean quiver]

bug maybe

hel;met is all crit

only buff I got is food rn and it's 87% mastery

[waxen oyster]

idk then your only high mast piece should be jastor

[ocean quiver]

I think my potion buff ended

[iron carbon]

How muc hu got?

[ocean quiver]

flask I mean

[runic hinge]

Sim some of the crafted gear to not have mastery on it

[iron carbon]

fck you're in sub

[ocean quiver]

oh im sub

[iron carbon]

That's why

[ocean quiver]

I forgot

I did t11 delve because I needed 10 crest

[runic hinge]

Yeah that’ll do it

[ocean quiver]

so IS wap to sub my bad

[waxen oyster]

I’ve had 200% mastery

[ocean quiver]

sorry guys

one sec

[waxen oyster]

as sub once

[waxen oyster]

(it was during hoc and maghar)

[ocean quiver]

this look better?

[iron carbon]

Make more sense ahahaha

[ocean quiver]

or do I still need to sim

[iron carbon]

You can sim if you want

[waxen oyster]

guy has similar to me statwise

[main bridge]

you always need to sim if you want the optimal gear

[waxen oyster]

but 4 less ilvl

[iron carbon]

But for exemple, you got same stats than me

And no upgrades left

[ocean quiver]

I don't really have anything for me to sim tho? Just recrafted items

got this

[main bridge]

sims tell you:

• the best pieces to upgrade first
• the best stats to use on crafted pieces
• if and when you should craft more gear to replace some pieces
• if items in vault are upgrades

[waxen oyster]

not great

of a trinket

[ocean quiver]

I know that but like

[waxen oyster]

idk what spec would like it

feel every melee likes pacemaker

[ocean quiver]

the only thing I can think of to sim wise is recraft items

as I have nothing in bag to replace

we will find out soon

[iron carbon]

Droptimizer

[pliant remnant]

Holy shit

Insane rogue buffs on PTR

[quartz kelp]

yeah i just saw too

rogue season

[pliant remnant]

insaaaaane

[rose inlet]

was hoping for a fix to fatebound tier

[celest drift]

Just delete us blizzard, make it simple

[ocean quiver]

no top gear

[ocean quiver]

LINK

[nova kelp]

oo new whispyr vid

[quartz kelp]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-11-2-development-notes-for-july-8th-class-and-tier-set-tuning-377687?utm_source=discord-webhook

[ocean quiver]

THANK YOU

[iron carbon]

You gonna be sad

[quartz kelp]

[ocean quiver]

scammers

you fricking scammers

what the flip dudes

https://tenor.com/view/meanie-cat-cat-meanie-cat-meanie-mean-cat-gif-10599680892698519833

[pliant remnant]

[waxen oyster]

whos ready for boomkins to starsurge boss healthbars

[royal lantern]

god i hope so

let them be broken for 2 weeks

and then get nerfed into the abyss

and all the boomkin brains go full meltdown mode

[ocean quiver]

and then everyone is 8/8 mythic

just everyone play boomie full clear ggs ez

[royal lantern]

almost as bad as this channel when there are rogue changes (or no rogue changes)

[runic hinge]

Insane rogue buffs boys. We’re so back

[fallow canopy]

[pliant remnant]

SO BARACK

[runic hinge]

Bleed build on top!!!

[nova kelp]

HAHAHAHAHA YOU THOUGHT WE GOT A BLUEPOST!

[ocean quiver]

No I was just pretending

:)

I swear

[nova kelp]

Everyone always say: "did you see the bluepost? did you see it?!"
noone ever ask: "did you get a bluepost?"

[fast mural]

They didnt do anything to us wtf

[tropic nova]

are they legit planning to spend the whole ptr cycle without doing a single rogue adjustment?

[runic hinge]

No

Ps they already changed killing spree

[ocean quiver]

they will nerf it

[hearty seal]

they buffed stealth again it seems

[ocean quiver]

sudden demise now only procs if garrote has more than 40 seconds left on it

[runic hinge]

Ps the tuning is never over

[hearty seal]

now it's so good you can't even see Rogue changes

[spice spire]

Nice mists bait

[spice spire]

Damn

Didn’t see the line

Unlucky

[hearty seal]

indirect rogue buff
yay

[runic hinge]

I would never bait you sweetheart xoxo

[worthy rose]

YOOO

i finally got my mythic shoulders i needed

super based

[spice spire]

Not even masterfully

Damn

[west crown]

Have to sub in for mythic gally tonight, any tips?

[main bridge]

don't die, do big dam

[polar timber]

Huge changes this week holy

[runic hinge]

I’m a jack of all trades, master of none (call you all trades)

[polar timber]

Can’t wait to tune in next week for the next set of rogue changes

[spice surge]

Hit boss, dont stand in stuff

All of the bait frontal stuff is ranged only, so just stand in your assigned cannister and you win

[west crown]

I did sprocket for them, how much harder is gally

[fallow canopy]

Shadowstep at your own peril

[spice surge]

Probably easier

[buoyant herald]

this is how we get buffs nowadays, just buff other classes' raid buffs

[plain spruce]

does shiv aoe also aoe soothe?

[spice surge]

Yes sir

[hearty seal]

ye

[hearty seal]

ngl I don't particularly mind, I already expect no big changes till 12.0

[spice surge]

Odd that they didnt buff the deathstalker set though

Since they went and tuned a bunch of other sets

[hearty seal]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

wonder how long it'll take

[worn geyser]

our one dev spent the entire week changing some numbers on the dh set

[lean plover]

I was expecting hero talent changes for this patch tbf, its the hero talent expansion and rogue ones are .... xd

[hearty seal]

ha, ha
at best they'll do them in 12.0

[lean plover]

Idk being ignored doesnt feel good

[hearty seal]

any change like that would be on the PTR from the start

sure doesn't

but that's how it is

[lean plover]

ye i have no expectations for the rest of the ptr

just the mandatory outlaw nerf 1 week into the raid

[hearty seal]

I'm just huffing copium by now and telling myself "surely there are no changes because they're all being done in 12.0 changes and 12.0 will be big"

[lean plover]

And then you have sp getting its 15th rework

[hearty seal]

to be fair
SP was kinda bad this whole expac

not like just bad to play, but numerically underwhelming too for the most part

[lean plover]

Ye for sure

[nova kelp]

they were VERY GOOD in the earlier part of prog this tier

[rose inlet]

huh?

that spec was dominant in every comp this tier for raid lol

[winged quail]

uh oh blue post with no rogue doom time

[nova kelp]

wdym, that's the norm, it's worth mentioning when there IS rogue footnotes
we DID get an indirect buff via being touched by mistics though

[rose inlet]

its not really a buff, they're just gonna tune around it

[hearty seal]

maybe, didn't keep track of raid (our only SP was bad tbh)
but I've not seen a single strong SP in M+ for the last eight months

[rose inlet]

in keys they're bad thats true

[nova kelp]

m+ no, they've not really ever had a good kit compared to other options for M+ outside of outlier seasons

but raid

[ocean quiver]

because in high keys everyone wants disc priest

[nova kelp]

VERY good

[ocean quiver]

and double priest is poo

[hearty seal]

welp our SP wasn't like
even top 7

[nova kelp]

point more being that "x is bad" is a bad statement when what you mean is "x is bad within x environment"

they were super fucking good in the raid

[rose inlet]

they were probably the single most dominant spec in df m+ tbf

but yeah

100 psy link nerfs later they're back down in orbit

[haughty flicker]

Yeah it's entirely tuning not their kit

[nova kelp]

for spriest?

[haughty flicker]

The kit has excelled in the past

Yes

[nova kelp]

it's how they function

not tuning

their tuning is good, hence good in raid

[haughty flicker]

Did you skip dragonflight or somwthing

[nova kelp]

but the WAY they do damage doesn't work out well in the current m+ environment

[winged quail]

SP dots were super relevant at the start of this tier

[haughty flicker]

Did I just imagine the spriest meta 3 seasons in a row

[nova kelp]

that's not a tuning thing

[winged quail]

now all the ads they used to dot die in a couple seconds so they kinda fell off

[nova kelp]

if they're numerically super stronk in one pillar of the game but not in another

that's not a tuning issue

[haughty flicker]

You claimed they never had a good kit for m+

This is factually untrue

[winged quail]

DF S2 btw

[nova kelp]

utility isn't the only part of a KIT that determines how you function

HOW you go about doing your numbers matters

that's also your kit

right now

[haughty flicker]

Their kit has not changed between the df meta and now

[nova kelp]

that kit doesn't suit M+

[rose inlet]

im confused, m+ typically enjoys classes that can do aoe while prioring a certain target

[haughty flicker]

Only their tuning

[rose inlet]

thats what spriest does

[haughty flicker]

You're just saying shit to say shit

[nova kelp]

if you tuned them up they would be OUTRIGTH overpowered in raid

[worn geyser]

i mean theres ways to buff classes in a direction other than flat damage increases

can target buff them for m+

[nova kelp]

it is, but they encounter a lot of friction within the m+ environment and build in order to achieve what they do in other environments

so it just doesn't currently work out well

at least by comparison to what other specs do

[rose inlet]

I mean I disagree, i think psylink scaling is just bad right now and maybe shadow crash target cap hurts them, but their profile/functionality is no different than it was when they were incredible in df

[runic hinge]

They were super meta in df s2 and s3

They just lost some utility and disc is super op rn

[rose inlet]

to each their own tho

[runic hinge]

Also aoe tuning has been bad for them

[nova kelp]

disc is giga desired atm yeah

like the feral druid issue

[haughty flicker]

There's literally a meme about psychic link buffs/nerfs deciding if spriest is meta

[nova kelp]

you always opt for the boomie

[haughty flicker]

It's entirely tuning, their kit is not somehow antithetical to m+

[runic hinge]

PL been changed more times than patches its been in the game

[hearty seal]

imo disc cannot ever be bad for M+ unless it's literally dunked in the grave numbers-wise (or changed in a way that won't be recognizable as the disc people are used to)

[royal lantern]

its really mostly just that disc is THE m+ healer rn and class stacking in m+ sucks unless its giga broken overtuned

[nova kelp]

disc has also had bad seasons

but most of "x is good/bad" is more determined on what the options are

[rose inlet]

oracle kinda sealed the deal for disc until that gets reworked completely

disc wasn't too insane before because the shields weren't wild like they are now but oracle is just too beefy

[royal lantern]

the good old "hey lets give disc a way to shield instead of heal, THIS TIME IT WILL WORK"

(it never works and always results in disc being broken as hell and then it gets removed)

[winged quail]

turns out making people not die is better than healing people when they die

[nova kelp]

it will work well when they turn a bunch of specs into augmentation builds lol

[royal lantern]

just funny that it repeats every 2-3 expansions

new guy that thinks THEY can make it work i gues

[winged quail]

this time will be different tho

for sure

[haughty flicker]

This time shield healer will work trust

[nova kelp]

they're just doing their best to maintain what they consider "class identity" lol

[haughty flicker]

Definitely won't be op again

[worthy rose]

yall know what we need as a buff

for all oldschool raids and mogfarm raids/dungeons we should have a 100% movespeed buff

[waxen oyster]

speedset is your friend

[nova kelp]

You always gota maintain a speedset that has you run at mount speed on foot

they keep nerfing my speed stat though lol 😢

[worthy rose]

yeah but imagine if you didnt need a speed set

that would be gigabrain right

[nova kelp]

and they should remove the weird multiplayer requirements for mechanics in legacy raids more often too

but yeah giga idea

I have like no mogs and mounts to farm anymore until we get TWW legacy mode though

[woven ruin]

So, this belt ain't lasting long in season 3 correct?

[nova kelp]

I can't even make use of the current buff we have since the ONLY thing I could farm with it you can't get to atm
fucking mechagon peacekeeper

[nova kelp]

probably not

almost definitely not as long as the ring

[balmy condor]

belt is living until heroic/crafted

[haughty flicker]

Yeah it sucks when a dungeon you want to farm is in m+ rotation

[balmy condor]

helm enchant is disabled day 1

[nova kelp]

dude I don't understand, the mega dungeons auto teleport you to the second part when you put the key in for that and start it
WHY auto teleport us to the second half and actually lock us out?

[umbral sigil]

I skipped the half season patch, is this belt worth grinding out now?

[spice surge]

Yes

Its also not a grind

[haughty flicker]

It'll take like 4 delves

[spice surge]

Takes literally 10 minutes to get it

[haughty flicker]

To max

Sprint through lvl 1 delves and gg

[spice surge]

Ye and another 20-30 to max it

[nova kelp]

I still need to farm the rest of the console upgrades 😢

[hearty seal]

keep cooking

[nova kelp]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[worthy rose]

belt is definitely worth it

coz your choice is either wait on a mythic vault drop belt

or farm a couple quick tier 1 delves for the belt

or farm up 90 crests to make a 681 belt

the delve is far easier and bigstat stick

[split veldt]

another PTR patch, another empty rogue section

https://tenor.com/view/tumbleweed-desert-road-dry-hot-gif-21341693

[nova kelp]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[haughty flicker]

i mean

i can see the rogue changes

they're in stealth

[unreal kayak]

its hard to tune or change something blizzard dont know how it works

[haughty flicker]

did you guys not cast detection

[nocturne quail]

Monk buff is basically rogue buff

[split veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/fine-tune-fine-tuning-fine-tuned-copium-walter-white-gif-4796770362564082802

[split veldt]

i wish, been playing rogue since vanilla, and im still bad at it kekw

[worthy rose]

its always crackup reading rogue changes

or class changes in general

i scroll down to rogue

we get one line of change if lucky

then you see dk's losing abom limb or some other big change

frost getting completely reworked

and its like dafuq

are we still blasting with bleed build in ptr/11.2?

[humble verge]

lads

is my math correct that

i did 1 10 on my alt

[haughty flicker]

i mean unholy is probably the best example currently of notes not always being a good thing

[humble verge]

which was a psf

[split veldt]

i mean nothing changed, so yeah, bleed build for keys still lol

[haughty flicker]

the math is mathing yes

[humble verge]

uh

that i only get gear from psf

[worthy rose]

yeah

[humble verge]

or can i get gear from the other dungs too? xd

[haughty flicker]

any dungeon

[worthy rose]

my unholy is about to get fucking nerfbatted to shit

[worn geyser]

u can get gear from any

[worthy rose]

unfortunately

[haughty flicker]

m+ pool doesnt care what dungeon you do

[humble verge]

damn

[worthy rose]

id rather no change than bad changes

[humble verge]

my math was wrong then

i was hoping for an almost guaranteed signet tmr

[pliant remnant]

[haughty flicker]

[worthy rose]

if you clear a mythic10 priory your vault slot is across all possible dungeon drops

you could get a seaforium for example

also are we still blasting with bleed build next season

reeee

[humble verge]

yea alright

[pliant remnant]

Nah bro, don't you remember how we all only did Priory at the start of the season for a couple weeks?

[humble verge]

thats fine ig

[pliant remnant]

[humble verge]

as long aqs i get a piece i need

[worthy rose]

im guessing for next season we are going to still be using signet and seaforium

[humble verge]

:3

[pliant remnant]

Like how we do every season

[worthy rose]

imagine

ilvl 710 signet and seaforium

very based

"but based on what?"

[spice spire]

But based on what

[nova kelp]

probably not tbh, the trinkets that we've had this season are all kinda meh compared to the ones we've had in others
I'd be surprised if this were the case

[fallow canopy]

I got my myth priory on 2nd week vault not sure what is this grind you mention

[worthy rose]

i grinded floodgate so much

im a fucking god at floodgate now

15 times until i got the heroic seaforium on rogue

and 17 times until i got the seafroium on dk

i know each pull like the back of my hand

[fallow canopy]

seaforium was my 1st vault

(I'm not even kidding)

[worthy rose]

it was funny as fuck

watching chainbleed's murlok profile

and wowarmory profile

coz every week i wold see him

[frozen glacier]

Another ptr update and no rogue changes 🙂

[worthy rose]

not get a mythic signet of the priory

LOL

until he finally just got a mythic house of cards

bro was not having any luck

[pliant remnant]

I didn't get a Myth Signet either, until like two weeks AFTER I bought Myth HoC with Dinars

Did at least get Pacemaker in like first or second vault though

[visual sun]

wtf is this mythic pace and signet talk. I got Kujo 5 week in a row

[pliant remnant]

Shout out to like the 89 Grim Batols I did last season trying to get a Hero Skardyn's though

Ended up paying an Ele shaman 200k who was rolling loot for off-spec

[humble verge]

lolnoob

[worthy rose]

house of cards is probably better just cuz

you can use it for outlaw and sub too if ever

signet is strictly assassination only

[humble verge]

man

[worthy rose]

plus house of card sjust looks better

[humble verge]

i had 2 hoc

drop in this fucking hc run i was in

[worthy rose]

i fuckin had heroic house of cards ninjad away from me

[humble verge]

i was 2nd on the roll on one of them

😭

[worthy rose]

by dogshit dps

im so mad

i will never forget

how i fucking got ninjad twice or three times for shit i needed

by this one demon hunter in my guild

does barely 10% raid parses

but ninjad all 3 things i actually needed across rogue and dk

every single raid

i would have been fine if it was any other dps

but it just had to be that guy

[humble verge]

i love when people CAN roll

on stuff they dont need

[foggy mirage]

so if you're not good you don't deserve gear drops?

[humble verge]

only because the item they have is also heroic

and the piece they roll for is heroic

[worthy rose]

yes

[humble verge]

:3

[worthy rose]

survival of the fittest

[foggy mirage]

😄

[pliant remnant]

yes

[native turret]

Play in a real guild that doesn't roll off trinkets 😄

[worthy rose]

after that i just went on raid hiatus from my guild

i didnt need anything from raid

EXCEPT those 3 items

so i came to carry the vegetable farm just for those trinkets

proceed to lose the roll

so i said fuck this and dinar'ed the heroic shit i needed

and hten just stopped raiding

hiatus

[native turret]

Skill issue tbh

[worthy rose]

sadge

[loud light]

yikes

[native turret]

I finally got thug hotline today
Only piece im missing for all three rogue specs is the miniature roulette wheel with good stats. Too rng

[worn geyser]

is that trink is an outlaw trinket?

[worthy rose]

yeah

think so

[native turret]

Yeah

[worthy rose]

or sub

geargrinder's keyring is also a good outlaw trinket

[native turret]

Yeah I've got everything else in mythic but the ring now.

[worthy rose]

capos knuckles and the event nightfall cudgel i think are outlaw best in slots

otherwise youd be using crowd favourite and capo or crowd favourite and hte nightfall

[native turret]

For m plus yeah

[worthy rose]

yea m plus

[native turret]

I use capo and gally thumb for raid

[worthy rose]

i still gotta learn how to play outlaw properly

i seem to be inting half the time

nad popping off half the time

theres no in between

[worn geyser]

tbh i have that channel removed from my discord list so idk anything that happens there

[worthy rose]

if youre not playing assassination are yo utruly even roguing

if you play sub youre inting

if you play outlaw you could be inting or popping off 50/50

assassination is reliable

[worn geyser]

i need a 6 foot pole at least away from those guys, when is the great rogue brexit for them to go be their own pirate class

[worthy rose]

i think outlaw should have a whole pistol weapon class

[native turret]

Its okay if youre bad at outlaw we still love you 😍

[worthy rose]

if demon hunters have their own warglaive class of weapon

rogue should have pistols

for the gunslinging

outlaw should have a dagger and a pistol

or dual wield pistols

kind of like how frost DK's can be arthas and have a 2hander or use two one handers

rogues should be able to use dual pistols or one dagger one pistol

with pros and cons each way

that would actually make a very interesting gunslinger class

if a hunter can pick up a polearm and throw hands, rogues should have no reason they cant just take up a pistol and start hitting people with the blicky

[worn geyser]

i just have a never ending vendetta since they removed combat and rethemed it

its just not rogue

[native turret]

That's fair. I miss combat too

But i enjoy all three rogue specs for different reasons.

[worthy rose]

outlaw to me every time i play it

feels like a mishmash of two playstyles

its like blizz tried to keep old combat playstyle

[native turret]

Wish subtlety didn't do tank damage outside cds but really my only gripe

[worthy rose]

and also wants to weave in gunslinger with procs

[haughty flicker]

actually they removed vendetta

[worthy rose]

youre like doing the oldschool sinister strike into dispatch

and then you get procs and youre suddenly pistol shotting into BTE

hitting them with the glock

[worn geyser]

i was devastated when i came back and it was gone dm is really lame thematically in comparison imo

[worthy rose]

getting rid of hunger for blood

was criminal

i was one of the pioneers of ruptureless envenom for wotlk on my server

people said it couldnt be done and rutpure was big dps loss if i dont cast it

but i just made my warrior tank bleed the target

[still steppe]

!fok

[prisma monolith]

Fok Conditions Post-Buff
Fan of Knives as a generator to replace ambush/mutilate:

• Baseline 3+ targets, -1 if talented into momentum of despair and thrown precision, +1 if talented into vicious venoms, +1 if talented into blindside. (Generally 5 with raid build, 3 with Bleed m+, 2 with Hybrid m+)
  Fan of Knives with Clear the Witnesses Up:
• Baseline 2+ targets, -1 if lingering darkness is up or you aren't talented into vicious venoms. With Vicious Venoms casting during lingering darkness is dps neutral.
  Fan of Knives with Darkest Night Up:
• Only on 2+ targets, or without Vicious Venoms talented. This is also a very very minor optimization

The most important to remember is the generator rules, clear the witnesses and darkest night optimizations can be effectively ignored as they are not meaningful DPS improvements

[vale shore]

Rogues are literally the only class that uses dagger, their own class of weapon as it were...

[lean plover]

druids do too

im pretty sure at least

[limpid flume]

we are the only agi dagger users

[vale shore]

nothing like a nice, solid, "pretty sure" is there?

[lean plover]

idk i remember artifact weapon and i have used relic dsggers on my druid leveling, just looked it up and it was removed for some reason

[drifting cloud]

yeah like 3 xpacs ago

[lean plover]

cant dw them which is stupid

[drifting cloud]

been a hot minute

[runic hinge]

Feral Druid legion artifact is actually a staff disguised as two daggers

[prisma cypress]

sword MH and dagger OH would be more historically accurate particularly in light of their mastery being called main-gauche

[nova kelp]

daggers should just count as 1 handers and you reblanace shit accordingly

you wana be an OL with daggers, fuck it
wana be an assass rogue with maces, fuck it

mog freedom for all

[prisma cypress]

please no

wow needs less homogenization, not more

[nova kelp]

it would improve loot options

I want that

shoot for less homogenisation within specs, fuck the weapons

I'm not ENGAGED with the fact that I have a dagger in whatever hand
I'm ENGAGED with how the gameplay feels
what that weapon is, is purely a player determined theme output

[prisma cypress]

you could apply that logic to anything and pretty soon you'd have no distinction between classes at all

[strange python]

We might have issues with swing speed though. Since poison application and the like is tied to it. So they would have to alter stuff in the back end.

[prisma cypress]

what makes a rogue a rogue?

[nova kelp]

the spec

[nova kelp]

that's exactly where the "balance accordingly" comes in

it would probably improve the balancing due to lack of weirdness

[strange python]

You do realize this is blizzard we are talking about right?

[nova kelp]

that's where the probably comes in

it would be easier with less variance in a needless gearing option

same thing with warglaives

make em 1 handers

[strange python]

Okay this I agree with since it use to be what ever.

[prisma cypress]

if you're not ENGAGED with the fact that you're wielding daggers and not maces, are you ENGAGED with the fact that you're wearing leather instead of mail, or spreading bleeds instead of fire dots and dealing poison damage instead of lightning?

[nova kelp]

they used to use the example of class sillhouette being a reason for why xmog wasn't a free for all with armour
but then we started getting a billion reasons that's nonsense

[haughty flicker]

i mean we can also get into how armor type restrictions for transmog should be removed

[nova kelp]

^

[prisma cypress]

i don't agree that they should

[nova kelp]

I think they should

[prisma cypress]

i think the class silhouette thing is valid

[nova kelp]

mog should just be mog

[haughty flicker]

the moment cosmetic sets were introduced the only argument they had disappeared

[nova kelp]

its not at all

[haughty flicker]

it absolutely is not

[nova kelp]

you can be a mage right now in full plate gear

[haughty flicker]

what class am i

[nova kelp]

it's not been a valid thing for fucking ever

[haughty flicker]

what class am i now

[worn geyser]

why does my sin rogue look like a pirate in current set lmao

[prisma cypress]

i'm not saying it's the current state of affairs, i'm saying it's a valid idea/approach to cosmetic items

[haughty flicker]

which class is this

[nova kelp]

why do ALL of my characters look like a plunderlord right now

and why do I still FEEL like I'm engaging with ENTIRELY DIFFERENT gameplay in spite of this

[prisma cypress]

did you read what i just said? lol

[nova kelp]

your mog is merely a player determined throughput based on theme

and theme alone

fuck the restrictions aside from spaghetti code bullshit

[haughty flicker]

if it doesnt apply to current affairs then it cant be used as an argument to continue current affairs

like sure in the past it couldve been a valid reason

but it no longer is

[fallow canopy]

diver

[nova kelp]

the day we got iron dorf heritage amour...

like

fuck your class sillouette son

[haughty flicker]

bubbles enjoyer

f my boi

[prisma cypress]

they've made mistakes, no doubt about that

[worn geyser]

i think for like tier sets it should be closely class themed, anything else go crazy

[haughty flicker]

yeah i could accept class sets being tied to your class still

[nova kelp]

class tier sets I'd say should probably be the no no zone yeah

I'd agree with that

[fallow canopy]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1115585699027091556/1117939453105807520/togif.gif

[strange python]

My rogue is in the purple one lol

[nova kelp]

lol I actually just checked my log in screen
literally all of my currently played toons are just varieties of plunderlords

[haughty flicker]

based

[nova kelp]

I like pirates but I don't particularly like outlaw

it is what it is

[worn geyser]

tbh they should retheme it wild wild west style instead of piratey

[nova kelp]

I like having the pirate theme

[worn geyser]

gunslinger type outlaw sounds cool

[nova kelp]

I have a dream where if we ever got the 4th spec we'd get bard
then the ROGUE is the whole dnd archetype
the ninja, the assassin, the pirate, and the scoundrel

[worn geyser]

that would be kinda cool, i dont fuck with pirates at all, but 4th spec scoundrel sounds dope

[nova kelp]

ON THAT NOTE
slightly hotter take
sub should be a 2 hander spec 😈
purely for the ninja dream

also kinda because the game lacks a "fast 2 hander" peep and I like the idea of that archetype

[worn geyser]

less homogenization , : introduce shuriken as a weapon type

[nova kelp]

TRUUUUUUUUUUUEEEE

that was the idea of the ranged spec that I always preferred tbh

[ashen pecan]

my favourite change for rogue in this ptr build was

and of course

[nova kelp]

like the pistolier is obvious, but a straight up ninja star boy would be just as cool

on that note
WHY does "throw knife" have a longer range than "pistol shot"

[haughty flicker]

we're really good at throwing knives

[nova kelp]

that's pretty fucking good at throwing knives lol

[haughty flicker]

but also arent they both 30 yards

[nova kelp]

https://tenor.com/view/bullseye-daredevil-punisher-darts-comicboom-gif-21638085

did they buff pistol shot?

maybe

I haven't touched OL much in recent times

I could be wrong, it was definitely different before

[waxen oyster]

idk why we even have mog restrictions

when so many cosmetic sets blatantly look like

certain armor types

[nova kelp]

I think class specific tier sets could remain class specific to be fair

but imo all mog should be purely agnostic beyond that

I do understand the idea of homogenisation fear
but oddly I think it would actually REDUCE it visually overall because then everyone would be free to just appear HOW the fuck they want

while you're at it, just make the current racials a character option

if I wana LOOK like an undead, while having crit damage increase and stoneform (reflavoured) then fuck it

rename it "hardy" choose it at the character customisation

[waxen oyster]

this is why you spam toys

[ocean quiver]

My sim finally finished btw

[nova kelp]

fucking lol, that's true unfortunately

[ocean quiver]

and nothing

no point doing it for a 0.1%

took like 2hours to sim

[nova kelp]

sir

are you using echoing void?

[ocean quiver]

Yeah

[nova kelp]

purely for fuck it value?

[ocean quiver]

uh

I think last time I checked it was best

[nova kelp]

negative

[ocean quiver]

positive

[nova kelp]

it might still be simming incorrectly

[ocean quiver]

I been using this enchant for ages

oh

[nova kelp]

but it's ;deifnitely not our best

[ocean quiver]

what do I use instead

[nova kelp]

never was

void ritual is the typical choice

[ocean quiver]

oh

i'll swap it hwen I get on

[nova kelp]

honestly, just keep rocking whatever really, it won't break the world, if you enjoy it then w/e

I think there's still a lot of peeps using TD coz "purple beam is cool"

100% viable reasoning

[ocean quiver]

It’s not that I enjoy it

I think it may of simmed higher before

So I put it on

But if it’s a lie I’ll change it

[nova kelp]

yeah if you look in the pins there's still a lot of "sim good perform bad" stuff floating around

[ocean quiver]

Thanks

[bronze pike]

i mog is the best mog

and yall can eat it

[nova kelp]

I mog?

is that like tmorph or some shit?

[frozen glacier]

we dooming yet boys

[nova kelp]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-the-dark-ages-doom-dark-ages-doom-dark-ages-doomguy-gif-15980962764398322199

[main bridge]

yup my shadow priest is ready

[worthy rose]

ayo what

is shadow priest going to be strong?

[main bridge]

looks pretty busted on PTR at least, but anything can happen

[balmy condor]

yeah surely their nearly 50% tier set stays that strong right

[main bridge]

lots of classes have tier like that

warlocks is also almost that strong

[balmy condor]

I am a delusional dumbass, time to reroll priest

[main bridge]

sheesh man, you need a nap

[balmy condor]

nah

I just need PTR cycles to be a little bit more reasonable

I am not the villain here

[main bridge]

you feel like this was a reasonable way to react?

[balmy condor]

community perception of clearly giga overtuned specs + blizzard balancing being bad is

I do actually yes

[main bridge]

that's unfortunate. i hope you feel better soon

[balmy condor]

will be when PTR is over!

[main bridge]

i can only assume you are deeply miserable to act this way to strangers

[balmy condor]

????

[sturdy python]

what are you yapping about

[covert jewel]

cringe

[balmy condor]

I wasn't even talking to you

why are you mad

[runic hinge]

We’re mad about ptr tuning today

[vital flicker]

I appreciate being a rogue one trick because I never have to worry about ptr balance (especially when there are no rogue changes)

[balmy condor]

I'm mad about ptr tuning

idk what they're mad about

[sturdy python]

tbh this shit has me looking at enha

[runic hinge]

Spriest channel is mad they didn’t get nerfed

[sturdy python]

[bronze pike]

my spec isnt op

therefor

im mad

im lowkey mad cause ret tierset is still aids

:(

[balmy condor]

I'm mad that fatebound is unplayable for a 3rd tier in a row

[vital flicker]

None of the tuning is going to matter because they are just going to nerf a bunch of OP classes (and probably outlaw rogue) into the ground a week after the raid releases

[sturdy python]

another tier of being a 3rd class m+ citizen and only getting my dopamine from logs and not on the damage meters themselves

[vital flicker]

Fatebound is in a really sad state

[balmy condor]

yeah I don't get what they're doing

[sturdy python]

honestly so is deathstalker, that mark swapping mechanic is complete fluff and aids

[balmy condor]

like it's so fixable

fatebound isn't even in a state where it requires HUGE changes

like it just needs targetted aoe buffs and it's good

[proper cosmos]

yeah, go mage have forever a busted spec

[balmy condor]

deathstalker is much harder to fix

[coral ibex]

why is fb unplayable

i thought the tier set was supposed to make it good

[balmy condor]

it's like 20% behind in aoe

[coral ibex]

oh aoe

[balmy condor]

it would

most of the raid is aoe

but also the 90 seconds

isn't 90 second

cause cold blood is whack as shit

[vital flicker]

I just wish you get darkest night anytime that you don't have a mark up, so you never get screwed by ads going immune or stuck without a mark up

[sturdy python]

here's my take - void themed end patch, void guys gonna eat good incl new DH spec (was that confirmed as true or just nonsense)

maybe in 2 expansions we'll find out the world soul saga was just a one piece crossover the whole time and we get to eat good for a season or two

[drifting cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/you-cannot-ragebait-me-heart-twitter-reaction-gif-cat-gif-16396486465647525728

[balmy condor]

idk

I'm a big coper

[sturdy python]

dont you have blizz on speed dial at this point bro

sort it out for us man

[balmy condor]

[vital flicker]

11.2.5 huge rogue hero talent changes

[balmy condor]

yeah let me code it myself

idk

[sturdy python]

hurry up

[balmy condor]

3 seasons later

[sturdy python]

😂

[balmy condor]

fatebound still unplayalbe

deathstalker still ass

meanwhile spriest gets another rework man

it was a meme

but now it's actually just reality

spriest gets more work than all 3 rogue specs

I don't get it

[vital flicker]

I just wish blizzard made enoufh money to pay someone to develop for rogue but they are just too poor

[solemn pasture]

They don't even have to pay someone, just listen to all the high end rogue players tell them what is wrong and even good ways to fix it

[sturdy python]

its not as though they could just have a dev or two in here and actually make them play the spec as part of their job, someone there just doesn't like us yellow power rangers

[balmy condor]

it's not a feedback issue

[buoyant herald]

neglect is what it is but the whole "they don't like the class" is kinda zzzzzz

[bronze pike]

we dont know the exact issue

just

[vital flicker]

You still need someone to develop it

[bronze pike]

blizzard doing neglect

and movin devs into other specs to work on

[balmy condor]

there's plenty of feedback, but there's nothing the community can do at this point

[bronze pike]

instead of hiring more devs to make sure all classes get somethihng

they made something my spec relies on

into a 2min cd

[buoyant herald]

id believe they don't like working on the class

[bronze pike]

and killed its uptime

no buff btw to compensate

[buoyant herald]

for whatever internal reason makes it annoying

[bronze pike]

and we'll still using it too btw

[solemn pasture]

Can't balance classes, too busy making more recolor mounts for Trading Post

[drifting cloud]

yes those things are definetly done by the same people, if youre gonna shitpost atleast make some effort

[bronze pike]

this pls

[proper cosmos]

Calling it now, all we gonna get is a 3-5% aura buff last week before release

[bronze pike]

shitpost believeably pls

[fallow canopy]

don't worry the changes are coming soon

[solemn pasture]

Sorry, probably isn't clear that I'm joking. 99% of the time I'm making jokes

[bronze pike]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-cat-gun-shoot-gif-13910935

[drifting cloud]

[bronze pike]

no

u must pay the price

[sturdy python]

dont apologise, these guys are on suicide watch

its not your fault

[bronze pike]

my vdh is stuck in the void between worlds

[vital flicker]

I think there just isn't enough time to develop for 30 specs and hero talent trees in a single patch cycle and it ultimately ends up with some classes pulling the short straw and having to live with it for a ling time

[bronze pike]

love it

dornagol is so good

[drifting cloud]

youre in the next xpac already

[bronze pike]

k so rogue draws the short straw

almost everytime

sin especially

cause frankly

[buoyant herald]

the price of being one of the lowest played specs

[bronze pike]

outlaws only huge issue was killing spree

and they share fatbound

so if sin gets fatebound fixed then outlaw gets it fixed too

[bronze pike]

thats irrelevant

[sturdy python]

yeah its gotta be some prioritisation issue internally

oh well

[solemn pasture]

Also it is kind of cyclical: Class doesn't get dev time so it has issues, so less people play it, so it gets less dev time... yada yada right?

[nova kelp]

I mean, sin did have the more relevant changes this expac so far

[sturdy python]

stop being rational

[nova kelp]

but there's no reason to get into a spec v spec thing WITHIN rogue

rogue itself isn't in the flashiest state

[bronze pike]

ye

[drifting cloud]

well considering rogue has been a bottom 3 played class since like 2005 I dont think its recent

[fallow canopy]

ye

[bronze pike]

i dont think they have spec population

or class population

[drifting cloud]

and if you do an LFR youll get 4 bm hunters in your group everytime

[bronze pike]

into account of anything

cause

[vital flicker]

I also feel like rogue isn't even badly designed, there are just glaring flaws in the hero talents that havent been addressed

[drifting cloud]

and 1 might even beat the tank on 1 button rotation

[bronze pike]

then you wouldnt see so many dev and pres changes

[bronze pike]

thats what i mean

ultiamtely

wfkwadbhawkhwadbawd

fuck words

im grinding hellstones

[nova kelp]

rogue isn't badly designed, no
I think for the most part it kinda boils down to things that are friction heavy or issues where complexity just exists for the sake of "adding complexity" alone