assassination

[ocean quiver]

addiction fr fr

[waxen oyster]

Honestly sin has so many combinations that sim within error

[primal jolt]

hi girls

[waxen oyster]

its not a big deal

[iron carbon]

That's why I still got that head since week 1

[waxen oyster]

myth boots and crafting cloak or bracers

likely a tiny gain

just because boots has more agi

[iron carbon]

You're right

[waxen oyster]

But its probably 2-3k dps max

[iron carbon]

0.1 % then

[waxen oyster]

Thats how much i’d gain for a 684 neck over crafted

current setup i’d need dfc or boe neck

or change to a no haste ring to make richard/brew neck a gain

[iron carbon]

So much shit for a margin of error upgrad

That's the reason I don't farm my vault anymore

Doing 12 isn't fun

Pref spend my time depleting in 16-17 with pugs

Now I think about, not sure it's funnier

[nova kelp]

vault is easy, you just be one of those lucky mother fuckers that get like their 3 or 4 bis M+ items inside of the first 2 months of the season

https://tenor.com/view/angry-angrypanda-panda-mad-commercial-gif-1686382995209837276

[vital flicker]

I got signet and pacemaker in the the first 2 months of the season and then blizzard let everyone buy them

[nova kelp]

Then you just get to buy other things

So still fuck you lol

[waxen oyster]

hoc jastor eye

I got pacemaker week 3

[haughty flicker]

me buying jastor twice

[waxen oyster]

my warrior got pacemaker his 4th vault

[nova kelp]

I bought 1 jastor thankfully

[waxen oyster]

with only 1 m+ choice

also natty won a jastor in hc pug

[nova kelp]

I didn't get a myth pacemaker until our 3rd token purchase

I did all of prog without it

I did weeks of FARMING without it

[vital flicker]

Not really much to buy once you have trinkets

[nova kelp]

it's still a boon

as well as having it during your prog

everythings better for you when you get it early, regardless as to them allowing people to buy it

lets you buy gear for fucking around, for gearing another spec in prep for next season if you feel like it etc

every which way you think about it, you still got a crazy benefit

it's like being a milliionare and lamenting that having a job doesn't really DO much for you

[main bridge]

complaining about getting good vaults is truly bananas

[nova kelp]

well it's more specifically complaining that others get something that feels diminishing to your good fortune

sounds semantic, but it IS a difference

regardless, there's just other ways to think about it

[waxen oyster]

Yeah didnt have to really think passive trinkets

went champ mechanocore to pacemaker

[nova kelp]

lol I FINALLY saw BOTH my first hero mechanocore and sus energy drink after we got overcharged delves

[waxen oyster]

i had 2 floodgates done when i opened it in vault

[nova kelp]

I was like OMG TYPICAL BROTHER

[waxen oyster]

somehow my rogue is my only character that hasnt seen those

all my alts have from maps

my dh’s first map was mechano

[nova kelp]

yeah my ww got hero lens and drink back to back weeks

[waxen oyster]

still hasnt replaced

lens is actually dece for ww

[worn geyser]

my first rogue vault was hero mechano lol

[nova kelp]

lens is VERY good for a lot of classes yeah

[waxen oyster]

idk why its simming so high on dh

it outsims pcemaker

[burnt star]

This exacly
We saw no jastor diamond drop ever from mythic.
I did 3 mythic vault since week 1. Never saw pacemaker or signet
And.. forget about getting house of card before other.

[polar rampart]

hoc is a dinar item, lol

[haughty flicker]

signet first vault, pacemaker third

ez

[burnt star]

I mean.. this was a scenario without dinar. Could have never gotten it except from vault

Dinar solved everything

[nova kelp]

yeah I had a full vault all the way until we got our 3rd dinar purchase, and I never saw a pacemaker OR a signet

it just be the way it be sometimes

[burnt star]

Yep. Rng being rng

[nova kelp]

I didn't even see a myth tier dagger until the week prior to our FIRST dinar purchase

[polar rampart]

i got pretty lucky with my vault rng on rogue, but it's just my alt so of course i did

[nova kelp]

I was just rocking the 1 crafted dagger through all of prog

[burnt star]

I hope they keep it for next season

[nova kelp]

ole richard reverberation to date for us, has dropped the dagger EVERY heroic kill

and only this recent week did he dropp the myth one rofl

I think it's coz I said his music was shit

[worn geyser]

i have yet to get that dagger to drop(while im in on kill)

rarer than jasper

[tall jay]

I like the fact that I haven’t seen any “changes” to sin for s3. Makes my heart proud to know we are in a …good spot…yes good spot that’s it

(Unless I have missed something)

[haughty flicker]

we've been in worse spots

[polar rampart]

either in a good spot or the devs forgot about us

[vital flicker]

The only problem with rogue was killing spree, and now the whole class is fixed and needs no changes

[haughty flicker]

real

[lost wolf]

is playing bleed in 16 rook a mistake?

[gritty laurel]

no

[lost wolf]

ty ty

[solar wyvern]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[nova kelp]

I'd say there are most definitely problems on rogue, mostly around friction to accomplish small things

A lot of people would let this slide by virtue of class theming or sometimes just simply not being invested in any other class and not realising that there are some issues

they're not major but they do/have impacted rogue for a long time and the overall playerbase within the class demonstrates its effect immediately

still my favourite class, but I'm not gona be up in here like "omg rogue perfect"
there's a bunch of things that are problematic beyond killing spree imo

[haughty flicker]

im pretty sure he was being sarcastic

[main bridge]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-glorpshit-mad-gif-12826934952903770254

[haughty flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-explosion-gif-7138394752046712707

[frozen glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-booty-shake-glorp-throwing-it-back-glorp-twerk-gif-15728514058189514652

[fleet copper]

!log

[prisma monolith]

Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage

Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/

[main bridge]

https://tenor.com/view/nervous-glorp-glorp-glorp-cat-nervous-gulp-cat-gif-6405647114975741623

[polar rampart]

i'm perfect and no robot will tell me otherwise

[ocean quiver]

what if robot tells you that you are perfect

will you disagree ;o

[nova kelp]

no i get that, just trying to be "level headed" in the style of disappointment lol

[normal mist]

You did it

Good job

I agree with you

Now I sleep

💤😴

[main bridge]

[ocean quiver]

https://tenor.com/view/wake-up-waiting-waiting-for-you-to-wake-up-patiently-waiting-get-up-gif-6142684266037375612

[normal mist]

Most of you non Americans should too

[ocean quiver]

nu uh

too busy downloading spiderman

godda stay up

[normal mist]

Ohhh okay fair, hope you enjoy it homie

[ocean quiver]

thanks

sleep tight

[normal mist]

🫂

[main bridge]

don't let the kpop demon hunters bite

[nova kelp]

no sleep

it's 10 am

I am work

[main bridge]

unlucky you got the employment debuff

[ocean quiver]

real

imagine not having the unemployment buff

[nova kelp]

I work from home

I got both the buff and debuff

[ocean quiver]

you need to pay me

so I can stay unemployed

sounds fair to me

[nova kelp]

I would, but rent y'know, I already can't afford to eat

[ocean quiver]

frick rent bru

what's more important, being able to live in your house after paying your rent, or giving me money so I can stay unemployed

seems pretty obvious to me

[nova kelp]

I could go for a free roomate
but like you gota wear cat ears a cat tail and dance on command

sorry I mean *nah can't do it

[main bridge]

i do that anyway

https://tenor.com/view/hamfreeze-cat-boy-tynan-gif-26304566

[ocean quiver]

sounds fair to me muffin sends me video of him doing it

so I know how to be the best cat boy

[main bridge]

bro don't leak

[ocean quiver]

I won't, those are added to my personal collection :)

[nova kelp]

https://tenor.com/view/caguamas-gif-7494161965476205187

no no... leak

[ocean quiver]

sorry my master said I can't

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1057403982374502491/1368664077156483264/sum-slight.gif

[thorn thorn]

What on earth

[spice spire]

Need that

[severe silo]

Which spec is more recommended for raid, for ease?

[drifting cloud]

assa

[hallow glade]

assa raid experience

https://tenor.com/view/crazy-cat-funny-cat-cat-sleeping-lazy-cat-cat-pc-gif-1364982177116506576

[brave comet]

there has to be a mandate that requires tanks to be absolute morons at the end of the week

[polar rampart]

most tanks dont understand rogues

[brave comet]

this 3.2k demonhunter tank pulls 2 enemies waits until my stealth window is over and then pulls bigger everytime

its so infuriating

[indigo mulch]

I mean most tanks do but its just faster to keep chain pulling even if it sucks for rogues.

[brave comet]

he also tanked the second bosses separately in floodgate

and it killed my soul that i couldnt cleave both bosses at once

he never leaped, never grouped adds together, pulls melee adds away from casting enemies

it was the worst

[polar rampart]

wheelchair dh

[vital flicker]

"sucks for rogues" is also not entirely true. It is more that it feels bad than it is actually bad

[vale shore]

oh yeah, that is Tank Waffling. It's the worst

[vital flicker]

though what that tank was doing is actually just bad tbf. I just mean chain pulling in general is good

[vale shore]

chain pulling is better than waffling. A rogue can hang back between pulls to get the restealth if he really wants to

but tanks that pull small, then decide to go big are the worst

[nova kelp]

it's more likely to just be that they a: don't know super effective chain pulling and MORE PARTICULARLY b: they probably have no idea how rogues work

such is life with pugs

you could try to educate or you could like go off at them
but really the only thing that's likely to teach them is "rogues are annoying"

[main bridge]

Unless you overgear the content I don’t see how you can constantly pull big

[vital flicker]

I mean it really isn't worth complaining about getting or not, realistically you can't expect them to cater to one person in the key

[nova kelp]

yeah, a good tank will be either receptive to class mechanics or hopefully come across the info in good time in order to push more effectively

a bad one will refuse

it just is what it is

[earnest remnant]

best you can really do is mentioned it pre-key and then leave it at that

[nova kelp]

well the BEST you can do is cultivate a group and have a tank that truely gets you, buys you dinner, shares hobbies

lol but yeah

I go with this advice - give it a mention and hope they're receptive

[buoyant herald]

If your tank doesn’t acknowledge your request just assume he’s gonna chain pull like a moron and respec outlaw before key starts

[earnest remnant]

my premade tank rarely let me restealths cuz he keeps forgetting

and ill never not give him shit fr it

[nova kelp]

BASED

but giving a friendly tank shit for doing shit things is expected 😛

as we know, it's rude to be bad at wow

[earnest remnant]

i usually make a loud audible sigh

and he just goes

"im sorry"

[main bridge]

Yooooow I love Folding Ideas

[nova kelp]

I like the "ohh!......."

[brave comet]

i mean vanish is there it can help mitigate some of those awful chainpulls. but i never realized it can get worse with small pulls into big ones

[nova kelp]

go nelf, it's shit but you get an additional freebee on trash packs

when you don't have meld for "the mechanic" you hit them with "well..."

HERE'S THE THING

( insert nerd rant here that they of course listen to every word of )

[brave comet]

i think if that happens again im gonna start pulling ads myself

and direct threat towards tank

[nova kelp]

please be aware that in pugs this causes group collapse nearly instantly lol

tanks are VERY SENSITIVE to people being in front of them

especially when the dh hits you with
*suddenly stands still
"big"

https://tenor.com/view/jumping-andrew-taggart-the-chainsmokers-high-song-leap-gif-26380311

[main bridge]

It’s so fucking annoying when people pull for you

[frank trench]

When I try to stay above 150 energy on boss fights in m+ for sanguine my dps bricks

Do people really try to keep sanguine up in m+ bosses?

[royal python]

No

[balmy condor]

Should re-read the wowhead guide

Cause that’s not the optimization

[waxen oyster]

tanks that pull 2 mobs wait for them to basically be dead then pull a big group are the worst

actual crashout material

[nova kelp]

https://tenor.com/view/call-from-based-department-gif-25645857

[waxen oyster]

you dont even do big tank dam like that

what are you gonna do send brand on 2 mobs?

[rotund oak]

coz u are weak

[earnest remnant]

thats the opposite of being weak, being weak would mean id let him trample on me which i dont

so

[rotund oak]

idk how is that not stepping on u

u literally said he keeps forgetting so he kinda tramples on u

like u are insignificant

but ye its not like it matters,restealhs are whatever

[humble verge]

wtf

i cant startup wow

[red schooner]

You're free

Run

[humble verge]

no

i was never free

[grim jay]

They just try to stop your from farming mounts and legendaries

[red schooner]

Has a guildie say his wow was fucked as well. Lucky bastards.

[humble verge]

tried to start up classic too

nuddin

[red schooner]

No error message?

[humble verge]

nah its not even opening

it is showing up in taskmanager tho

cant even scan and repair

we in

[zenith elm]

Good morning fellow rogues

I'm currently in vacation 😎

[red schooner]

[fathom flax]

Is ?? Delve man a pain as rogue?, I’ve done 0 research but have 684 pick for outlaw and ass haha

[golden loom]

I had that shit earlier today aswell

[hallow glade]

sometimes

[golden loom]

restarted PC 3 times and nothing fixed it, opened league client and then suddenly wow worked again

[fathom flax]

I just wanna know if it’s easier outlaw or ass tbh

[red schooner]

Sin bleed build makes it quick

[hallow glade]

probably outlaw since they have perma tricks and better survivability

[fathom flax]

Getting mixed messages hahahaha ty tho

[red schooner]

I mean you're 684 any spec will melt a delve

[balmy condor]

getting mixed messages cause no one optimizes delves

have ilvl and you win

[red schooner]

Where delve bis list mr guide man

[balmy condor]

stealth as much shit as you can

it ain't hard

[red schooner]

But yeah hold w hit buttons and win

[zenith elm]

I'm in venice guys 😎

I'll be eating much pasta and pizza

[humble verge]

better walk all that shit off

[zenith elm]

That's what i'll be doing 😁

[hearty seal]

the main thing about the ?? delve guy is 1) mobility (the arena is fucking huge) 2) ability to burst down his shield (not really a problem at 684 lmao)

while outlaw is generally better for mobility, assa IMO has an easier fight due to limited uptime (you have to run around and do stuff a lot, which limits uptime on the boss)

survivability is not a problem unless you get hit by like three avoidable damage sources in a row

[gentle coyote]

hi guys, bit of a dumb question probably. Fairly new to assassination trying to get my head around ST im playing the hybrid build and i understand maintaining garrote, rupture cause caustic is important but in your down times (no kingsbane or deathmark) are you guys pressing envenom when the buff is about to fall off to maintain it or are you spamming mutilate x 2 in to envenom and then mutilate x3 when you have darkest night proc?

[iron carbon]

Personally, I spam until I'm at 2 stack of envenom and <150 energy

But it's not a big deal

[normal mist]

I'll start by saying you should probably not be playing hybrid if you're new.
Secondly, we press envenom when there are no maintenance debuffs to apply, just hit it.
Thirdly, we build up to 5 or more cps every time, you only force 7 if you have DN up

[iron carbon]

Not sure to get what you mean in second sentence

[normal mist]

You press envenom when you don't need to apply rupture or ct

(or garrote, but that's a builder)

I probably worded that poorly

[iron carbon]

Nha, I understand now ahaha

maintenance debuffs = dots

[normal mist]

Yeah, basically :3

[iron carbon]

You got the envenom buff but it's a buff, not a debuff

[normal mist]

Afaik you just send it, you don't really think about it

We used to during s1

[iron carbon]

I still got the reflex of keeping it up

[normal mist]

Me too honestly

[iron carbon]

I think it's more confortble to not sit at 30 energy

So you can spam more during shiv kekw

Must be 0,5% dps diff

[golden loom]

what

[iron carbon]

What what

[golden loom]

just macro tea to shiv and never think about autoproc/tea in general

[iron carbon]

Wtf you speaking about shiv and tea?

didn't mention tea

[golden loom]

you mentioned 30 energy

[iron carbon]

Yeah, cuz you can't press a builder at 30 energy

[golden loom]

ah

[iron carbon]

And when I got a charge of shiv between kb, I use it. Not spamming envenom outside of pandemic while keeping me <150 energy allows me "to spam more" during the shiv

[balmy condor]

[iron carbon]

I think it's just a lot of bullshit, but it makes my mind busy

[balmy condor]

Are we inventing shit again

[iron carbon]

No

Never said to do that

Never said it was THE way to play

I just like to play like it

[balmy condor]

More power to you

[iron carbon]

I feel skilled by overwhelming my mind with stupid rules that doesn't improve my dps

Tbh, if I knew how sims work, I would compare using the bot

[rotund oak]

sims are basicly a view of how stuff might work

yes its a useful tool but its also important to learn to read them and interpret with a proper mindset

[rotund oak]

What about ''Gal''

gato's new name

[normal mist]

I just remembered that the other day I sent a dm to whispyr telling him I love him and he never texted back

/Seen

I got ghosted

[iron carbon]

Rude

[iron carbon]

I was more seapking about the APL and how to modify it

I guess if you can write it right, I guess you can change the rotation rules for testing

[hearty seal]

so he vanished?

[normal mist]

Basically!!!

[iron carbon]

That's how TC team does, isn't?

[earnest remnant]

its just a fuck load of trial by error

[rotund oak]

100% i think the boys doing that kind of stuff on TC channels

[hexed frost]

Anyone has a 11.2 PTR M+ talent

[hearty seal]

uhhhhhhhh

[iron carbon]

Same than now?

[hearty seal]

this has to be a joke right

the Garf might be the clue I suppose

[normal mist]

It definitely is

[iron carbon]

Fck I felt in the trap

Professional habit issue

[hearty seal]

wonder what 12.0 will bring
we'll have data from that...maybe in Jan 2026? if they stick to the 6 month schedule

[earnest remnant]

but yes that generally how its done

you get an idea, like for example delaying Shiv with 2 seconds during KB

so you find the shiv line

and change it so it pops it 2 seconds later inside of KB

shit like that

[iron carbon]

I'll check it out

[earnest remnant]

and then you hope it doesent break 40 different things

[iron carbon]

Love this kind of stuff

[rotund oak]

think eleem cooked alot on apl

[iron carbon]

But never took time to go into it

[earnest remnant]

its just a basic logic language, so its not that bad to get into

[red schooner]

Basic logic, that's me fucked then

[rotund oak]

yes it is but u need to know stuff

same as u cant edit any actual stuff on python

[iron carbon]

I can read code, not a big issue

[rotund oak]

applies the same on any lang,simple or more complex

need to know basic rules

[balmy condor]

sweet can fix the rewrite I'm working on to try and fix the aoe vs dslice issues

cause lord knows I don't wanna fuckin do it

[earnest remnant]

nah

thats foul

[rotund oak]

let eleem cook it

isnt he like blackbelt on such kungfu

[balmy condor]

I mean

[earnest remnant]

whispyr with the dslice vs AoE sims again

where shit breaks

[balmy condor]

we all are

eleems helped

[iron carbon]

What are you trying to cook there?

[balmy condor]

what's actually foul is assa having to balance 3 finishers and like 4 generators mate

[balmy condor]

I'm splitting patchwerk aoe and dslice into separate lists cause I can't be fucked anymore

[earnest remnant]

im about to balance 3 generators on single target

we are not the same

[iron carbon]

In what purpose?

[rotund oak]

4 generators.. thats mut,gar,ambush and..

[balmy condor]

assa sims are so cancer cause you like tell it to rupture slightly more and it's like pulling a brick out of a fucking jenga tower

[rotund oak]

ah shiv

[earnest remnant]

fok

[rotund oak]

and fok

[earnest remnant]

[rotund oak]

so 5

😁

[iron carbon]

You can count KB so 6

[rotund oak]

we dont KB here

[iron carbon]

[rotund oak]

thats vile

[earnest remnant]

shiv isnt really used as oone

well i guess with AP u kinda do

[royal lantern]

new raid is great allready

[rotund oak]

there is also poisonknife which ive removed from my bars long ago

thats like 7

[earnest remnant]

i refuse to unbind it

[iron carbon]

Ctrl + 4 keybind

[earnest remnant]

actually yes xD

[rotund oak]

whispyr gonna nuke u

hold on

[earnest remnant]

goated ctrl 4 bind

[balmy condor]

change a garrote line and then randomly you get a dm

UHMMMMMMMMM WHISPYR!!! ERMMMMMMM EXCUSE ME!!!! I am simming 7 target 1:30 min cleave build no imp gar no shrouded sbs single shiv double vanish, and the sim didn't rupture snipe to get sbs combo points instead of envenom, what's up with that

and I want to actually kill them

[iron carbon]

So it'sb inded but never used

[balmy condor]

and then myself

[royal lantern]

i have it somewhere on the sidebar next to my enchanting window with no keybind attached

[earnest remnant]

think i even pressed it ONCE

my last assa reclear

big value

[rotund oak]

ive got it mod'd somewhere,complete forgot where it is though

might as well be some ctrl+4 bind

[earnest remnant]

if we finally get a Assa prog tier, that is gonna be me in your dms all tier

[balmy condor]

I'll tell you to eat shit

[royal lantern]

after the 3min addpack, gally walked weird into lighting aoe shit, both tech guys dead, full energy, so i pressed throwing knife once to generate from 4 to 5 cp

HUGE value

[earnest remnant]

but i will send you funny raccoon pictures while i do it

and god knows ive got many of those

[rotund oak]

https://tenor.com/noKvPD5ojIY.gif

[red schooner]

I hit it on Rik on intermission to build up CPs. Good use case.

[iron carbon]

TBH, I think I used it once to pull for tank

[royal lantern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392807916543017000/1391732512463655074/image0.jpg?ex=686da028&is=686c4ea8&hm=03b53249717ce2c2109e1edc13d7e646ec5af98fdb008c5e721e6951c1b69430&

[balmy condor]

whispyr what's better, shiv on 3 targets with no kb if damage amp phase in 23 seconds and I'll lose 4 seconds of shiv in the window but it's a kb with no dm or I force above 30 energy to shave a tea charge for 2.3 target cleave 30% of the pulls when the boss moves onto adds but sometimes he doesn't cause it's janky and my tanks don't move him fast enough

HELP??????????

[royal lantern]

[rotund oak]

same old same old

[balmy condor]

people actually coming up with some of the most convoluted nonsense and just expect me to pull an answer out of my ass as if I just sit in my chair all day spending hours tweaking the sim to answer some delusional question that I might be asked next week

[iron carbon]

you don't?

[balmy condor]

fuck no

I barely even sim my own character

[iron carbon]

Cuz you got all the numbers in mind

[balmy condor]

no

cause I can't be fucked

[iron carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/meonly-gif-19710542

[golden loom]

Nothing matters

The real answer

[earnest remnant]

dont think ive ran a sim since tier ended xD

[balmy condor]

I got asked one time why I don't sim gems for the crit gem

[earnest remnant]

ive just equipped what i think is good

[balmy condor]

and I'm like yeah that's a great question

and I'm not wasting my time with that

so I just gem my mast/crit or whatever and move on with my life

think that chatters brain exploded

[iron carbon]

I chose gems for colors

https://tenor.com/view/rainbow-sparkle-colorful-gif-16947357

[balmy condor]

the idea of not running a 7 hour gem sim for 0.01% bonus dps

[buoyant herald]

this is just people wanting to believe that they're bad because they're missing a trivial piece of secret knowledge

[golden loom]

I took house of cards with last dinar and swapped a bunch of gear and re-crafted some stuff away from mastery since I didnt need to worry about signet anymore, all for a +0,2% gain once I simmed it!!!

[earnest remnant]

im currently gearing shaman for next tier

and ive just gone

hmm

yes haste

[rotund oak]

https://tenor.com/bHtWz.gif

[real sinew]

So what should i do?

[earnest remnant]

hmm yes mastery

yoink

[balmy condor]

look at this person that's parsing nothing but 99's, surely they know something I don't (kill faster pad harder), and I'm skill issued (rotation is piss easy), SURELY THERE HAS TO BE TECH

I know

they're not auto-proccing tea

that's it

[iron carbon]

I hate proccing tea

[buoyant herald]

then you look at their logs and they're wasting dozens of CP, capping energy all the time etc

[iron carbon]

Blizz, make an ode with autoproc

and a node without

[balmy condor]

I'm the mfer that caps energy

[earnest remnant]

• boosting 2 people for more add dmg

[golden loom]

I re-gemmed re-crafted and read the guide, but why does standing outside of melee range for 16 seconds ruin my parse!!!!!

[balmy condor]

I saw a gally boost with 6 buyers the other day and just sighed

[red schooner]

Boosts your parse cos you can use poisoned knife, surely

[rotund oak]

cant say stuff like that heretic

[earnest remnant]

yep

[rotund oak]

[buoyant herald]

i know i scuffed my opener and i know i forgot to macro tea with shiv and i know i had some downtime for this mechanic and yeah i guess i did die during execute phase but

should i get more crit

?

[earnest remnant]

like no matter how well you play, when the boss is this "pad" heavy, you just cant do shit about it

and it fucking sucks

i hate this tier so much

[golden loom]

the pad is also due to the fight going to like 8 or 9 min

[balmy condor]

I'm entirely checked out of this tier after my guild fumbled every boss yet again

[golden loom]

like if you get 2nd intermission the log should just be invaldiated

[real sinew]

Just hit boss

[red schooner]

Next tier, no fumbles.

For sure

[balmy condor]

5 mug kills, best is a 67

we're holding dps

[buoyant herald]

ew

[balmy condor]

cause we're braindead and can't just zerg it

so I'm just dick in hand for legit like 40 seconds

miss a kb cast

[red schooner]

It's fine, we went to reclear mug and had 33 pulls on it

So it could be worse

[golden loom]

like I dont even get to see this part of the fight and the one time we got there cause of slow kill for some reason I died like noob!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[balmy condor]

I don't even fucking care man pad logs gg

[iron carbon]

We doing the same tommorow

I don't want to be there

[buoyant herald]

we had like 20 pulls first reclear, 15 second and third

[royal lantern]

my convoluted nonsense of the day:

what should i get for dinner

[golden loom]

our first mugzee re-clear was 42 pulls

2nd was 3

[iron carbon]

God please no

[red schooner]

Like 1/3 of our raid team either quit or went 'nah I'm out this season' so reclears are full of benched people and trials

[balmy condor]

idk but I'm gonna try and make onigiri today so that's gonna be exciting

maybe rice?

[red schooner]

And it hurts

[golden loom]

tbh tho we got new tank and 3 new healers and stuff and stuff

[red schooner]

THIS ISN'T RECLEAR, ITS REPROG

[royal lantern]

good idea

[iron carbon]

Oh I should be fine then. We reclear with the initial roster

But we swap for gally

[golden loom]

the fact that we are even re-clearing the full raid every week is a miracle

[red schooner]

We spent 3 hours to reclear bandit

[buoyant herald]

we redid bandit once then started going straight to mugzee lol

[golden loom]

Sundays raid showed what the real hardest boss of the tier is

[buoyant herald]

true, our single sprocket reclear also took like 20-30 pulls

i think that's why we stoppped

wanted 1 night reclears and didn't wanna get bogged down with sprocket and oab

[balmy condor]

reclear this tier is so shit man

oab/mug you just lose all your timings if you do more damage

and blizzard gave us all like legit 28% dps from the start of the tier or something

just from belt, rep, turbo

[earnest remnant]

dmg buff every few weeks

needs to get gone

[balmy condor]

yeh

also makes parsing very funny

[earnest remnant]

its just not fun

[golden loom]

the no damage hold mugzee is just a super fun fight tho idk, but rest I agree

[balmy condor]

cause you're like oh I guess my historical % sucks now cause everyone doing 20% more

[earnest remnant]

im not gonna remember any of these fights fondly

cant wait for this tier to be gone

[balmy condor]

actually what the fuck is this bro

[royal lantern]

wtf, why do you link our raidnights

wait stop

not enough sprocket wipes

cant be us

[balmy condor]

mid may to mid june is legit 18%

we are so cooked

[red schooner]

Hopefully next season has less weekly power gain stuff we gotta do

[balmy condor]

I hate to break it to you

[golden loom]

kinda hyped to gear some alts at start of next patch though, didnt do it this time and kinda never bothered to

[balmy condor]

but the fomo simulator is working

[red schooner]

I was running delves before the delve belt thing, it feels less fun now that it's a chore

[balmy condor]

people keep coming back for the fomo stuff

so they're gonna keep cranking more fomo

it's just a winning strategy for them as a company

[golden loom]

I did some tier 8 delves on my 634 ilvl demon hunter today, was a banger

[red schooner]

I just have to do the fomo stuff or my raid leader shouts at me

He knows where I live

[golden loom]

I care about my own numbers so I dont mind doing stuff

but yeah, not having played my warrior at the start of this patch just left it in a weird spot with a billion things to do so just didnt

[red schooner]

Me on my druid last night

[golden loom]

so on patch start im gonna go a bit degen and gear rogue/warrior/dh + maybe monk

[red schooner]

Didn't have belt, no corruption enchants either

[golden loom]

cause only raid logging rogue for the past few weeks has felt weird, I wanna play the game

[red schooner]

Raid logging has been alright, been chilling on other games. Metaphor Refantazio is fun

[golden loom]

well the other games I have been playing have also been wow

leveled a horde warrior to 60 on hardcore, stopped playing it
leveled a new rogue to like 35 on hardcore, stopped playing it
leveled a warrior to 85 on cata classic, maybe some 10 man raiding in mop

[grim jay]

So the only good things you did were the multiple acts of stopping to play classic

[golden loom]

not my fault every horde guild raided on same days as I raid on retail... but also the leveling was the most fun part so I enjoyed my time

[grim jay]

Couldnt be me

Leveling is in 99% of the cases the worst part of any mmorpg for me

I also hate classic with passion

Classic and boomies are pretty close to eachother

[red schooner]

Vanilla levelling is my vibe, hit 60, immediately roll a new character and go again

[golden loom]

might just be cause its hardcore but I am a massive fan of the leveling

[rotund oak]

true and real

entire expansions now

[royal lantern]

its funny how much people cried about the evil BORROWED POWERS

and they just make it a single item + % buff instead, and they eat it up now lol

that the "turbo Boost" got a positive reaction made me question everything

[red schooner]

Turbo boost was fine, mostly because I'd already been doing world content and had enough crests to convert to 430 gilded.

If you then had to spam a shit load of m+? Then it was less fine

[golden loom]

idk I had fun spamming keys

[red schooner]

I'd hate it, I am not an m+ enjoyer

[golden loom]

cause now when theres no loot to get I just dont do it

but when there were gilded crests to be farmed, hell yeah get me in

[red schooner]

M+ I'll do the absolute minimum to get what I need

[zenith elm]

I love M+ as ass rogue

[primal jolt]

hello lovelies

hows pumping going

[zenith elm]

I pump goof

And you?

[ocean quiver]

It’s really not, the key will take longer if I’m not able to spread my bleeds and do aoe damage because then they will be 1 dps down

[red schooner]

!chainpull

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why stealth benefits aren't as important as you might think:

• For starters, "Chain pulls" are NOT when the tank pulls a new pack with 1% hp remaining on the previous mobs. That is called "Bad Tanking", and it sucks for everyone in your party.
• Correct Chain pulls usually happen while the previous pack is still alive and not dangerous. This increases uptime on more targets, which is the biggest increase in DPS for the entire party. This is also the biggest reason why you see high key level players doing so much damage.
• Garrote is roughly 7-9% of people's damage in a key, most of which is already empowered/cleaved
• Most energy spreading will come from Rupture to maintain scent of blood, not garrote
• Without a Trace (+1 vanish charge) only grants roughly 2 additional casts across a whole dungeon, but does allow for holding vanish for large chain pulls which improves the quality of each vanish
• You can argue that it "feels bad", but numerically there is very little ground to stand on, the dps simply isn't there.

[ocean quiver]

Fake stuff

I’ll just leave the key if her chain pulls how about that

[red schooner]

Sure have fun

[ocean quiver]

Also that first line isn’t correct when I say chain pulling

Tank runs to pull massive when there’s a mob with 40% ho

Hp

And I have no vanish left because he’s been doing it the entire dungeon

[balmy condor]

That’s fine

Idk how you managed to get to 1 mob with 40% left in a pull, usually there will be like 2-3

But that’s fine

The biggest dps gain possible in mythic+ is less downtime

Stealth or no stealth, universal to every spec and talent build

Hitting more things more often is fundamentally how you deal more damage

It’s not much if it’s just one pull, but it adds up

Couple seconds here, couple seconds there, doing a single pack instead of a double

Not pulling into the boss

Pulling just a couple seconds faster on every pack with the same route and same stealths is legit like 10% dps

[royal lantern]

i also dont know where you guys find those tanks that "always chainpull i can never stealth"

like, in more or less all pug groups i have, the tank tends to wait until everything is dead or only starts moving when stuff is at the last 5% and you can stealth anyway

feels more like that it happens 2-3x in a dungeon and gets exaggerated like crazy

[zenith elm]

I feel the same, if i dont know the tank, i only vanish on my first CD and then i wait to see if he chainpulls or not

[hearty seal]

it happens sometimes

[zenith elm]

If he does ? Great i have another charge ready for it

[hearty seal]

like one in six runs, maybe

[zenith elm]

If he doesnt ? I'll just restealth

[hearty seal]

I've had an absolutely ATROCIOUS pally in Cinderbrew once tho

his MO was basically
"wait till the entire pack is at 40%, pull next pack, wait till the old pack dies and the new pack is also at 40-50%, pull next pack, repeat"

that was the entire run

[royal lantern]

tbf, thats technically how chainpulls work

but like

you do it Situation based lol

[hearty seal]

literally the only restealths I had were either vanish (and I didn't play double vanish back then) or before/after bosses

[zenith elm]

And tbh if you're playing bleed or hybrid it doesnt impact dps that much

[hearty seal]

yeah I still did okay damage
but not even close to my best and it felt like shit to manually spread rupture

(also he was super trash at positioning during the bee boss, left puddles under the "tamed" bees all the time)

[marsh fjord]

Been reading a bit and I genuinely only pug keys. And all my tanks keep chain pulling. I ended up explaining to a tank after a key that we want to stealth lol

[royal lantern]

pls dont

cus its not true

[spice surge]

But this sounds good...?

[marsh fjord]

How you mean. How else am I getting my ambush 🤣

[royal lantern]

why do you ambush

[marsh fjord]

For stacks???

[royal lantern]

you have DN ready

what stacks

envenom something lol

[marsh fjord]

🤦‍♂️

[royal lantern]

ambush while having DN from the last pack is really bad mate lol

[hearty seal]

I have no idea, that was the most miserable run of M+ of my life, and it was much easier to do decent damage when tanks didn't do that

[royal lantern]

because you are not used to proper chainpulls

but like, that ARE proper chainpulls

and assa thrives from them

you literally have Scent maxed out allready and infinite energy

what more do you want going into a fresh pack

[hearty seal]

but how
do you just
literally manually spread 5 ruptures around? limit it to 3? what do you do without IC?

[red schooner]

Use energy from previous pack to get bleeds on the new pack

[royal lantern]

spread dots? its a dot spec lol

[marsh fjord]

Imagine manually applying rupture to 5 targets because you couldn’t stealth that sounds really bad lol

[red schooner]

Like, it FEELS bad, but numerically, it's fine

[marsh fjord]

It saves me multiple globals why would the tank not let me stealth like what?

[royal lantern]

bruh how did you guys play the spec before IC

[hearty seal]

yes, but most dot specs have like
a 30-40 sec CD to spread their shit, don't they?

[royal lantern]

what?

[hearty seal]

I didn't play Assa or high-end WoW in general since mid-Cata

[red schooner]

It costs the group many globals of not being able to hit bigger packs

And you many globals of only hitting one target

[spice surge]

Well if you have to spend 10 seconds killing of a pack to save 4 seconds because you do more dps

Thats not worth it

[marsh fjord]

I prefer just pulling bigger and then stealth instead of smaller pulls and chain pulling

[royal lantern]

assa is one of the most lenient dot specs in aoe

you gain energy when stuff with your dots die

SD gives you "overkill value"

[red schooner]

Yeah, as I said, it FEELS worse, numerically it's better

[royal lantern]

well, and thats not playing efficent and bad for everyone in the group numberwise

[marsh fjord]

In what way its numerically better for us?

[hearty seal]

Warlock has like
Vile Taint or Cataclysm depending on the spec
SP apparently lost their spread sometime 11.1 but getting it back in 11.2 with SC applying vampiric to 8 targets

[red schooner]

More time hitting more enemies

Rather than sat there single targetting a mob down

[spice surge]

Stealth lets you get bleeds up faster, if you already have bleeds up on enemies from the previous pack, you dont need IC

[marsh fjord]

But if you pull big most of the times the mob dies at the same time. Then you stealth and rinse and repeat. I understand downtime is a factor here. More in combat is better.

[spice surge]

Thats why chaining is good

[marsh fjord]

Why would you not need ic in that regard.

[spice surge]

Because you already have bleeds up

[royal lantern]

why do you spread bleeds 24/7

[red schooner]

But you could then pull big, kill the dangerous enemies then pull the normal enemies into a new pack

[hearty seal]

the common situation was that the next pack gets pulled with maybe 10-15 seconds left on rupture and garrote is long gone (not that it matters much)

[spice surge]

Ye so refresh them

Or apply to the new mobs

Idk

[royal lantern]

most of your aoe dmg is either crimson tempest or spatter depeending on build

not spamming rupture/garrote

you get as much bleeds out as needed and then stop

[spice surge]

Im personally of the opinion that they should just remove IC all together

[royal lantern]

if stuff starts to run out/targets die, you aplly new ones

[royal lantern]

ye same tbh

[spice surge]

So the bleeds are allowed to do actual damage

Instead of just being resource generators

[royal lantern]

it felt weird that instead of a SMALL aoe dot spread help, they immediatly gave a nuke for it

[marsh fjord]

I geuss your point is that you already have 5 ruptures out on the previous pack you don’t need it on the next pack?

[spice surge]

Correct

[marsh fjord]

And that’s why it doesn’t matter

[royal lantern]

i asked for rep.shadows, not shadowcrash 2.0 lol

[marsh fjord]

That makes sense. Why not just make IC baseline out of stealth 😂

[hearty seal]

ngl I could work with rep shadows (if it was smart)

[marsh fjord]

Let us apply 3 ruptures even out of stealth would fix this entire issue honestly

[spice surge]

Ye and then they would have to massively nerf rupture because its way more accessible

[marsh fjord]

Because it’s still extra damage

Even outside of 5 ruptures

[hearty seal]

what, even with rep shadows approach (i.e. only +1 target besides main)? you'd still have to spend like 7 seconds spreading to 5

[balmy condor]

If you can cast more of something, it has to be weaker

[spice surge]

Idk i just find it really strange people roll a spec thats historically been about multidotting and then complaining about needing to multidot.
Y'all are not the first nor the last to do it either

[hearty seal]

idk, I'm just used to dot specialists being able to more easily spread them
like pre-rework FFXIV summoner just had Bane to dot up one target, then slam Bane once in 30 seconds, the entire pack is dotted up
destro doesn't do much dotting but their cataclysm basically puts immolate on everything also once in 30 seconds
SP had Shadow Crash, as I was told, but it was removed at some point (the spell is there, the vampiric touch spreading isn't)

[frank trench]

Tbh multi dotting wouldn’t be an issue if you didn’t need to also worry about mark.

That does add a little complexity

[bitter trout]

Outlaw has the same people in another way, people want fast apm spec then ask if they can macro abilities not on the gcd onto other abilities there’s no winning

[grim jay]

Ffxiv is a different game
Destruction isnt a dot spec

[hearty seal]

IMO this is more of a thing with Blizz not knowing what to do with dot classes other than "yeah they have to find every target and put a dot on them, that's their gameplay"

[royal lantern]

well, the problem is simply

if you let a dot spec spread dots easy, the dots will do low dmg and people complain that the dots do low dmg

if you dont let them spread dots easy, people complain that spreading is slow

what do you do

[hearty seal]

currently the most easily spread dot does the most damage tho

and garrote/rupture are support effects more than main damage

[royal lantern]

and yeha, destro is no dot spec

and ff14 had never a dot based spec really lol, square HATES dots

[royal lantern]

no?

[hearty seal]

bro
have you played pre-EW summoner? esp like, before ShB and more like, in HW or StB, when there was less focus on Baha phases

[balmy condor]

That’s… that’s the issue yes

[fierce sigil]

Guys… i havnt killed gallywix yet (Mug Zee 3,4% then gallywix to Go)
I only have one cartell ship to use… The other two Are gone… should i choose House of cards? Is it that much better than Signet? Especially in Raid?

[royal lantern]

signet and HoC are equal at same ilvl

[grim jay]

Wait for crimson tempest dealing no damage but adding a debuff with target scaling that increases the damage of rupture and garrote

Ah wait wont happen

[royal lantern]

pls shut up

[grim jay]

[royal lantern]

wait

why increase the dmg

make them tick faster

exsang 3.0 baby

[grim jay]

Well now you doubled down

Im in

Gotta love me some aoe exsang

[red schooner]

New tier set, exsanguinate but it procs randomly.

Good set

Ship it

[grim jay]

That actually wouldnt be too bad

Ngl

[hearty seal]

so currently we have like
half of "easy to spread" with IC
and all of "does no damage"? or is it also half?

[grim jay]

Im a genius

Blizz hire me

[rotund oak]

yes plz,i want that omegapad BFA exsang tech

[umbral sierra]

M+ s3 starts when raid drops right?

[hearty seal]

yes, Aug 12

[umbral sierra]

But m0 will be out before the raid ya

[hearty seal]

yes, Aug 5 except for Tazavesh (no Taza before 12)

[spice surge]

Technically the season starts with the patch

But you cant do m+

[umbral sierra]

Tazq being the mega raid?

[spice surge]

Only m0

[hearty seal]

mega dungeon, ye

[balmy condor]

Half of easy to spread with IC + half of caustic spatter = full dots do no damage

[umbral sierra]

I see the patch as a s3 pre patch

[hearty seal]

well spatter is fuckin crazy, I admit that

[umbral sierra]

No raid no m+ no PvP rating till raid drops= no season

[lusty kraken]

they are scared of dots doing damage so unfortunately you are stuck with envenom the spec

[hearty seal]

doesn't help that the alternative talent basically folds instantly as soon as there's an extra target present for 5% of the fight

[spice surge]

I feel like the historical issue with dots being bad in dungeons (because mobs die too fast) is mostly solved by sudden demise

So we dont have the same need to apply all of our dots instantly like a bunch of other old dot specs have, since its gonna do most of its damage either way

But then we get it anyway and also blade flurry for some reason

(also sub gets blade flurry, because why not)

[humble verge]

@zenith elm

[hearty seal]

you mean Caustic as our BF?

because somehow I find caustic upkeep to be fun ngl

[hearty seal]

tbh I've heard something similar from affli locks about uhhh
Malefic Rupture or whatsitcalled

rapture, rather

[royal lantern]

malefic is afflock envenom

all dots just feed into burst dmg

just like how on assa bleeds just feed into the envenom machine

[bitter trout]

Blizzard are just scared of dots doing damage

I’m gonna presume it’s because they don’t really have anyway of damage capping them along side target capping them

[hearty seal]

tbh I actually opened up an affli guide (never played it even back in the day)
they basically spread both of their most important dots at the start of the fight? first Soul Rot then Vile Taint, both are seemingly available often enough to have them up for every pack

[royal lantern]

yes

because they very quickly grow out of controll

look at SoD and shadowpriest/warlock

they went insane

[bitter trout]

Ye

[royal lantern]

cus they coule multidot everywherw

[hearty seal]

also start of Legion and easy target dotting due to EnemyGrid

[bitter trout]

Fire mage as well to a certain degree

[iron carbon]

This whole conversation about chainpulls gave me headache

[bitter trout]

With ignite

Worked a bit different tho

[royal lantern]

huh

[iron carbon]

Nha, the complain about no restealth

The spreading dots when you already got you 5 upture up

[royal lantern]

tbf, its a very widespread thought

[bitter trout]

Chain pulling starts to stop when you tricks the healer

[iron carbon]

Don't we have a command for it?

!chainpull

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why stealth benefits aren't as important as you might think:

• For starters, "Chain pulls" are NOT when the tank pulls a new pack with 1% hp remaining on the previous mobs. That is called "Bad Tanking", and it sucks for everyone in your party.
• Correct Chain pulls usually happen while the previous pack is still alive and not dangerous. This increases uptime on more targets, which is the biggest increase in DPS for the entire party. This is also the biggest reason why you see high key level players doing so much damage.
• Garrote is roughly 7-9% of people's damage in a key, most of which is already empowered/cleaved
• Most energy spreading will come from Rupture to maintain scent of blood, not garrote
• Without a Trace (+1 vanish charge) only grants roughly 2 additional casts across a whole dungeon, but does allow for holding vanish for large chain pulls which improves the quality of each vanish
• You can argue that it "feels bad", but numerically there is very little ground to stand on, the dps simply isn't there.

[royal lantern]

people that have no clue about rogue love saying that rogue needs stealtu 24/7 for dmg

so i can understand if somebody thinks that its actually a real thing

[iron carbon]

Yup, I always tell pug tank that they don't need to wait if they chain good

I had once a rogue complaining whenI was tanking in DF

He got kicked

[grim jay]

I had to argue with our m+ Andy spriest at one point about a certain streamer saying we need restealths

[royal lantern]

you can say names

[grim jay]

And again after I got annoyed once that our tank just chained one 10% HP Mob into a group

[royal lantern]

[grim jay]

I dont know which one it was

Either zerocool or musclebrah

[bitter trout]

Preach?

Ohh sorry

Naa it’s 100% Zerocool

[iron carbon]

I mean, just chain when dangerous target died

[bitter trout]

He would always cool people disgusting pigs

[iron carbon]

Fck if SP/WL or rogue don't have their big spread tools up

[zenith elm]

Us

[royal lantern]

who?

[bitter trout]

I’ve been afk a few months does he still exist

[hearty seal]

tbh I don't actually see a solution to this "easy to spread, thus low damage" issue
because okay, let's assume dots are hard to spread (basically manually spread all the time forever, no way to do it in less than three GCDs for a garrote-builder-rupture) and do a lot of damage, like the majority of it
wouldn't that like
be pretty degenerate and force you to simply watch targetframes to immediately reapply garrote and/or rupture, while only doing other stuff to keep busy because the other stuff provides maybe 25% of your damage and 75% is garrote/rupture/ct?

[grim jay]

Sounds like multidotting gameplay

[hearty seal]

also either insane for big pulls (basically only limited by the fact that you can't keep garrote on more than 8-10 targets even without considering the cooldown) or super stupid low on ST (due to being tuned for 5-8 targets being garroted/ruptured)

[grim jay]

St loop can be something totally different

[hearty seal]

I don't mean "raid ST with totally different talents that actually make 1 target garrote/rupture okay, trust", but rather the same dungeon ST
it's already pretty lacking

[grim jay]

It can be something totally different ye

[hearty seal]

ngl I'd reroll (to where? hell if I know)

[grim jay]

There is some stuff you dont use for aoe if you spend your time multidotting

Said stuff can then be a bigger part of your St

[hearty seal]

well that just means...Mutilate would hit hard, I guess

[rotund oak]

aff lock is ''outlaw'' for locks they kinda meme affliction to fully degen

[grim jay]

Envenom, garrote, kingsbane, DM, ambush or even reverse target scaling for rupture

Arguably the St could even be the same as now gameplay-wise

[rotund oak]

[grim jay]

Just tuned separately

Because you wouldnt use it much in aoe either way

[hearty seal]

can they actually do target scaling on dots? the initial hit, sure, but I'm pretty sure there's no dot scaling
unless there's a talent or something that goes "if you have rupture on one target only, it does 300% damage, or 150% damage on two targets, otherwise it deals normal damage"

that might be feasible, I suppose

[rotund oak]

they could make dots stack twice or more

reintroduce exsang on those

ok im cookin'

[grim jay]

Unlimited stacks

Watch the Boss disappear with demise and 340 stacks of rupture

[rotund oak]

spam gar for infinity

lmao ye

[hearty seal]

oh god that's gonna be even more degen but would actually make any pack size work

since you can either put out 8 dots for the 8-pack or 2-stack on each of 4 enemies

[rotund oak]

doubt this would be ''uncapped''

but ye

would be insane

[hearty seal]

it'd be naturally capped by application speed

[rotund oak]

well u have two vanishes

so u keep stacking

[hearty seal]

even in perfect conditions you can keep maybe 8 garrotes and ruptures up, if we ignore garrote CD

[zenith elm]

Infinite stacking strat

Demise doing ungodly damage

[rotund oak]

SD procs like Hirosima and Nagasaki together

instance explodes and get removed from the map

also breaks the game coding

lul

would be nuts

but stacking twice could be a thing

not that crazy

[hearty seal]

nah that's a theoretical situation where IC doesn't exist and you can only spread dots manually

so vanish doesn't do jack...well, aside from subterfuge and garrotes I guess

[rotund oak]

well that would change things,it would slow down the spec significantly

Cant see IC leaving any time soon

[hearty seal]

well, yeah, if IC was removed and Assa had to always spread manually
I'd probably reroll, no idea to what because I can only play like four classes in WoW

[rotund oak]

if IC gets removed or changed it would kill the spec for m+ compeletely

its game over for all assa rogues,not only a probable reroll

[hearty seal]

even assuming damage was buffed to stay the same overall?

[rotund oak]

highly doubt dmg would make it relevant coz its not the only spec doing dmg

by default bleeds take time to do dmg

if u remove the multiapplication utility IC offers its game over

building cps and tab targeting one by one means no dmg

as u wont have time compared to other specs that just blast

[hearty seal]

ye that's already sort of true, some specs just blast while Assa spends like 7-10 seconds on setup before damage starts rolling in proper

[spice surge]

Well sudden demise exists

[rotund oak]

true but what SD would do if it procs to 1 target rather than all/most targets in sight

IC leaves SD loses value as well

they are interconnected

[spice surge]

More damage since the bleeds themselves do significantly more damage

[rotund oak]

u got me confused

[spice surge]

We're obviously not talking about just straightup removing IC and doing literally no other changes. But to buff the bleeds to do more damage as theyre not casted as often

[hearty seal]

ye

[rotund oak]

well buffing bleeds and IC being still a thing is a W

no matter how u put it

for sure

[hearty seal]

no, no

the theoretical setup is

1. IC is removed
2. bleeds buffed to compensate

[rotund oak]

ye that wont work

eleem presupposition is wrong then

[hearty seal]

well I'm inclined to agree, even 15 mil SD hits won't really save it I think

[rotund oak]

Idk why would current sin gets a change

by any means

its a comfy viable spec

[hearty seal]

esp since the buffs are likely to not be just "+150% damage to Rupture/Garrote" lol

[rotund oak]

well ye

if anything sin could get nerfed

[spice surge]

Ofc it could lmao

[hearty seal]

Sin is saved by being low playrate and hovering in like the top 25% good specs but not at the top of the top

[rotund oak]

doubt it

[spice surge]

Idk im just not a fan of the spec being green eviscerates instead of the bleed spec its been historically

[rotund oak]

can respect that but in general idk

i wouldnt rly change sin

its a spec that does ok,very comfy,cool and chill

[main bridge]

it's not actually a green eviscerate though

that's a silly simplification

[winged sun]

Cooked

[golden loom]

I mean it simply is

[winged sun]

[main bridge]

it is not because it does other stuff than just damage

which means it is objectively not the same

[winged sun]

Thats the last thing to happen

You should see how bad it is in ptr compared to the op specs

[hearty seal]

IMO the most nerfs Sin could get this expac is like
-4% aura buff
and that's if it's somehow super overtuned, which I don't expect

[winged sun]

?

[spice surge]

So does eviscerate

[winged sun]

Where are u getting the part where its overtuned

[hearty seal]

otherwise nobody will bother actually figuring out how it works and what precision nerfs could be done

[hearty seal]

"if", my guy

[spice surge]

But the entire rotation revolves around buffing your envenoms as much as possible

With as many modifiers and amplifiers as possible

In a short burst window

[golden loom]

green evis better than purple evis

[rotund oak]

idk exactly how it is on ptr tbh,havent tested it but im inclined to try sub next season.Thing is,Sin is just a well designed spec for keys rn,Especially for ppl that like playing a simple and chill spec.Idk why would it change.. like u can see arcane mages and locks and dks being stupid strong,why would sin even get nerfed at all

[winged sun]

If what theres nothing overtuned about sin in live and ptr

[rotund oak]

im skeptical now,might log on ptr and test the pirate and sin

[winged sun]

Besides sudden demise procs are absolutely useless in most content

You talking about it likely means your dealing good dps with random ass pugs in +10 keys where people would do more if they used the 1 button rotation because of how bad they are

[golden loom]

yeah I mean the value from SD is the 15% bleed damage with CT being as broken of a button as it is

[rotund oak]

what about they buff that threshold

like 30% of bleed dmg

[winged sun]

It doesn’t way too low dmg for it to proc in real keys

[hearty seal]

my point was
"even IF Sin was overtuned (not claiming that it is or will be), I wouldn't expect anything more than an aura penalty before Midnight at which point all bets are off"

[winged sun]

So its basically useless in high keys

[golden loom]

the proc yeah

but I meant the passive part

of just getting 15% bleed dam

is the good part of SD

[winged sun]

Ya

Bleeds are alot worse in next season atleast on deathstalker

[hearty seal]

due to the tier set?

[winged sun]

Envenom is dealing alot of dmg even tho its buffed by a small amount from tier

I think its still quite weak

[golden loom]

Even then CT will just be a broken ass button regardless

[hearty seal]

I expect shiv talents to be a mainstay in S3

[golden loom]

like that ability is not balanced

[hearty seal]

no longer a flex talent to have two shivs in M+

[winged sun]

flex talent

U think ppl used it to flex or something

[golden loom]

yeah idk currently the 2 builds that people play run double shiv

both bleed and zeross build

[rotund oak]

wdym by flex talent?Like the enrage aoe dispell?

with ap

i dont get what flex means

[winged sun]

Cooked yapper

[golden loom]

is there anything other than first boss top that enrages in current m+ season even

[hearty seal]

I've seen it used as flex with Iron WIre at some point

[hearty seal]

coupla things

[winged sun]

[runic inlet]

[iron carbon]

Only on bleeds

[rotund oak]

flex as flexibility?

[winged sun]

Wtf are u talking about

[rotund oak]

i dont get u man

[main bridge]

mole herd in DFC enrages

[hearty seal]

yes ofc

[iron carbon]

But it's not flex

[rotund oak]

💀

[winged sun]

https://tenor.com/view/aintnoway-gif-27058877

[iron carbon]

You just admit to lose dps for utility

[winged sun]

Flex as flexibility

[rotund oak]

my brain is fried

[iron carbon]

You not swaping util for util

[rotund oak]

brb need some water

[fallow canopy]

[iron carbon]

Am I getting troll again?

[winged sun]

Its like talking to someone who doesnt play wow

U tell him i play ass

And hes likee

What

Ur like how do u not know ass

[iron carbon]

I play butt

[hearty seal]

what else could it be in this context
there's no flexing going on

[main bridge]

i legitimately think Zeross is incapable of conversing without calling people stupid

[winged sun]

By typing flexibility because flex is an actual word?

[winged sun]

I didnt call anyone stupid

What

Besides im not the only one who got confused

[hearty seal]

typing smh because I imagine you can understand shorthands

[main bridge]

are you trying to say that wasn't the implication with emotes like the dent variations?

[winged sun]

Its just an emote

[main bridge]

yeah and you use it every time you want to imply someone is stupid

[winged sun]

You having a cupcake pfp means u have no brain?

No

[golden loom]

I need to get nitro man I have no emotes

I have to use fkin and

[coral ibex]

correct

[normal mist]

https://tenor.com/view/come-on-bruh-gif-15052638638393793533

[winged sun]

You said that i called him stupid and i only used an emoji which you got offended by and it wasn’t even sent to you

[golden loom]

but I aint paying for no nitro

[rotund oak]

u need specific nitro ''uwu''nitro

[coral ibex]

if you dont see the game exactly as he does he just insults you lol

[grim jay]

is goated wdym

[winged sun]

I never called anyone stupid and now ur changing the whole conversation

[golden loom]

yeah its good but I like kekw more

[coral ibex]

bros head got way too big this season with all the people asking about his m+ build

[hearty seal]

anyway
yes, I've seen double shiv replaced by Iron Wire on bleed builds
granted, that was like a month or more ago

[main bridge]

zac gets mad when you use it while talking to him too and it's because he also realizes what you are implying. it's not a coincidence, and i think you know it too

[red schooner]

is the only emote you need

[grim jay]

[iron carbon]

Yes, and I do when boosting. But it's not "flex"

[winged sun]

I do call him stupid tho

Hes fine with it

[main bridge]

obviously i am not offended because i don't think i am stupid and you weren't talking to me