assassination

[rotund oak]

u do bring the dmg now,like a good rogue,that trained enough to know how the dmg is coming out does twice the mage dmg in pugs

[bronze pike]

SHOYULD I WAIT A WHOLE MINUITE?

[rotund oak]

we ditched IW even for more dmg

[radiant raven]

Raid pugging tends to be a bit easier but it's so dependent on the person putting the group together doingt he bare minimum.

[bronze pike]

FOR YUOU TO KEEP AGGRO???? PERHAPS?

EACH PULL?

[quartz kelp]

as long as u get someone that actually kicks shitters the raid is done in an hr its kinda nice

or someone that actually checks logs ig

[balmy condor]

I find raid pugging to be easier because its a bigger barrier to join like a 6h/week guild compared to doing a 30 min key with a quarter of the people

so you get less demons

[radiant raven]

Yeah, absolutely

[kind harness]

hey, im absolutely completely new to rogue - im torn between outlaw and assa, ive read the guides but struggle to follow them. Would you recommend anyone video/twitch to watch that would be better? Also, would you recommend assa or outlaw to a new comer?

[radiant raven]

Also a good RL makes a huge difference via making a decent group / explaining stuff / removing any obscatles

[balmy condor]

m+ pugs are just absolute demons

[radiant raven]

Whereas yeah, in a M+ there's very little you can

If we pull a MVexie and the tank clearly doesn't want to do what they've been told to do, you just kick and replace and go again. if the VDH insta-gibs himself on the first pull and ragequits, that's gg.

I love leading pug raid groups. It's some of the most fun I have in WoW.

[runic hinge]

Watch whispyrs vids on YouTube. Also you’re in the Assa channel and I would say it’s the best spec in the game but someone else somewhere else might think different.

[worldly dock]

Guys when is the best time to use Shiv in m+?

[runic hinge]

With dm and then whenever

[subtle tundra]

factually untrue assa sucks

[coral hollow]

Do we still try to Chain envenoms in st like recasting it before Drops Off or do we Just send it until we are Out of energy? (Out of cds ofc)

[floral sedge]

!poisons

[indigo mulch]

The only time we don't just full send is just before kb. make sure you have a lil bit energy for when you send kb. Thats about it if i'm not mistaken.

Is there a way to garantee Lucky coin in your opener as fatebound? Or do we just pop vanish and pray to the gods that we crit the envenoms?

[balmy condor]

you have to hit the 50/50 on the envenom before your deathmark

[red schooner]

The tech is to not play fatebound

[balmy condor]

I guess you could in theory guarantee it with double vanish

[indigo mulch]

I wanted to give fatebound a chance on lockenstock lmao

It just sucks so hard not getting lucky coin in your opener :/

[balmy condor]

welcome to fatebound

[indigo mulch]

Is it worth actually double vanishing for it then?

[balmy condor]

fuck no lmao

[indigo mulch]

[balmy condor]

double vanish is like -7%

[indigo mulch]

MAKE FATEBOUND WORK!

[static glacier]

This is the same deal

As alacrity and other similar shit

You don’t track it for your mental wellbeing, you don’t need to know if it’s active or not in a raid setting

And you shouldn’t be fb in keys

[balmy condor]

I did make it work lmao, it's good in single target

did you except a literal coin flip to not have rng?

[indigo mulch]

I mean if we make both sides heads then its not an issue right?

[red schooner]

How much variance does fatebound have pull to pull?

[royal lantern]

yes

[static glacier]

Run a sim, open the html report

You’ll see it on the right

[balmy condor]

deathstalker is around 13%

fb is around 18%

[static glacier]

Whisp when amp is cloned can the stacks be independent or are they always the same as eachother

[balmy condor]

I believe they're synced

[static glacier]

Trying to figure out why env sometimes hitting for 16m in opener as opposed to the usual 13

It can’t be trink proc bc eye of kezan

Could be Maghar mastery + maybe I highroll crits on mut and get it inside tea

[red schooner]

neat, didn't know about that, cheers

[balmy condor]

ya sure or you scratched your balls at a different angle or something

[static glacier]

Idk, there shouldn’t be that much variation

[blazing tulip]

Are we supposed to replace Cyrce's at any point this season?

[elfin flame]

in m+, how many targets does there need to be to be for garrote to no longer be a global worth pressing (outside IC window)

[balmy condor]

no

[obtuse ruin]

can anyone here help me out with some plater stuff? D:

[elfin flame]

i asked this and realized i can sim and see what raidbots does. raidbots seems to stop applying it past 4 targets

[balmy condor]

I'm a bit iffy on actual numbers but I think with hybrid you can start ignoring at like 9 or 10, and with bleed I think it was somewhere was like 18?

[elfin flame]

so 3 is the limit

whaaaaaaaat

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wmEKRpdPL1gjGtVkaM2rgC

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/x7feSbZ1LQybz4gPt49ezq

[balmy condor]

ye

it's goin

maintaining on main target

[elfin flame]

oh! i guess it's a two part question

right the maintain on main target still applies

i was wondering when it would stop applying garrote to non-main target

but that now raises the question when it would stop applying to main-target

which u've answered

[balmy condor]

yeh, you would stop applying garrote to non-main targets the moment you hit energy saturation

[elfin flame]

in a situation where there's like 6 mobs all of the same health that need to die at the same time, would i still care to garrote? or does the garrote only give me slightly better prio dam

[balmy condor]

so this is where I hit you with another curveball

[elfin flame]

im ready

[balmy condor]

on 6 targets you would still want to maintain on your prio target, for both overall and prio

but

the thing that's lurking in the background of all of these questions and holding the whole thing together like glue is a piece of logic that doesn't really get used ever

which is basically just like, garroting on 6

it's not really something that happens a lot rotationally

but it's kinda fine to just toss it out to get to 7 every now and then

and that ends up being the last like 0.4% or whatever that's keeping garrote propped up

[kind forge]

Esp with bleed build, no?

[elfin flame]

im confused

what are we taking to 7

[balmy condor]

cp

[elfin flame]

ohhh

ok

but i seem to fail to understand

why garrote is so good

[elfin flame]

its just this?

[balmy condor]

for the most part yeh

[elfin flame]

interesting

so think of it more as a bridge to hit 7cps

rather than maintaining it

[kind forge]

It does dmg

[balmy condor]

well yes, but the main draw from gar

is just uptime on sanguine

sanguine gets stronger and stronger and stronger with more targets obviously

and without carnage you fall behind

very quickly

so energy quickly becomes very valuable

the less sanguine uptime you have, the more garrote matters

without sanguine you would kinda just never spread garrote

[elfin flame]

okay that helps explain things

[balmy condor]

to put it into perspective a different way maybe, sims where you spread garrote compared to not spreading garrote on say 8 targets right

garrote overall, including the ones from carnage, are doing like 800k dps

but all the sanguine blades damage combined from your bleeds is like 1.7

probably higher tbh

maybe 2m

dropping the garrote spread might not hurt your garrote damage directly

like it's probably still like 750-780 or whatever

but you lose out on 300k sang damage and you're sad

[elfin flame]

right

i hadn

hadn't considered the benefit of better sanguine uptime

W rizz ty

[balmy condor]

fok itself also just like, isn't great right? in 8 targets it's doing maybe 3-4% of your damage

and then envenom hits like a noodle too

can kinda drop a bit

[elfin flame]

fair

[balmy condor]

couple cp down as long as you have the energy and you're pisschillin

over half your energy from just bleed finishers

who cares about these losers

I mean you still do cause caustic but you get the point

[sour void]

Answered my question before I could ask lol.

[elfin flame]

right. also it just occured to me sanguine blades does not shot up in sim

i assume it's tied into bleeds

[balmy condor]

sims calculate the sanguine blades for each bleed

game just lumps it all together

[elfin flame]

ah there is a drop down

poggers

[kind forge]

Ct is really goated this season

[sour void]

Related basic af question: should we be tabbing around to spread garrote to 6 targets on opener (2 casts x 3 targets) or are we supposed to stay on 1 priority and end up only hitting 5? Based on the above, it sounds like we would prefer 6?

[royal lantern]

doing +8 keys to help fresh guildmate alts to get some gear

SD killing stuff at 30% hp is kinda funny

ending the dungeon with SD being #1 dmg

[elfin flame]

it's always better applying bleeds to targets that don't yet have them

if they'll live meaningfully long

[sour void]

Appreciate you.

[royal lantern]

its technically better

but like

not really a big deal

can be lazy, wont change that much

[balmy condor]

issue is if you're bad at the game you lose your mark target in the mess

[royal lantern]

if you struggle finding your marked target while manually swapping, its gonna be bad

[balmy condor]

and that sucks way more than losing the odd gar or rup while you're spammin it out

there's ways around that obviously

[sour void]

Gawd damn, how you catch me like that

[elfin flame]

yeah that has been a big pain point playing bleed build

[balmy condor]

focus and target focus

[elfin flame]

clicking nameplates

[royal lantern]

its me, im bad at the game

[balmy condor]

big help

something I do is like I'll focus what I'm supposed to kick, and then spread my shit around and then target my focus to go back

if I'm sweating

[sour void]

I struggle with name plate clicks soo much

[balmy condor]

most of the time I can't actually be fucked

and just slam the same target

but like ya know

[worn geyser]

can also just stay targeted and use a mouseover

[sour void]

Okay so technically better but just do whatever

[elfin flame]

i do this but i set the prio mob as my focus, ambush that ho, then i go around spreading cooties to the pack before clicking back to my prio

[balmy condor]

yeah mouseovers also common solution

yeh

[proud pelican]

Same here

[balmy condor]

I don't mess with mouseovers personally

[kind forge]

Thought it was a gain to spread more rupture than just energy saturation and scent stacks now with ?

[balmy condor]

that shit feels so jank

my brain explodes

[sour void]

Mouseovers can hilariously backfire

[balmy condor]

yeh, rupture good

[elfin flame]

mouseovers make me feel like im playing a first person shooter

[worn geyser]

it took me alot of dungeons to get used to using it

[balmy condor]

spread to everything important

[elfin flame]

need that cursor acc

[kind forge]

Rupture good, garrote not so much ?

[sour void]

Aim trainer for dot spreading

[worn geyser]

bust out the kovaaks

[royal lantern]

like, honestly i just learned over the years that giga minmaxing for minor gains rarerly pays off when it gives you a chance to do "failures"

[balmy condor]

back to csgo aimlabs babe, we need to get our +1 rupture

[elfin flame]

https://tenor.com/view/ball-aimlabs-gif-27507943

[sour void]

Also need balls to dodge on the floor same time

[elfin flame]

ITS SO CURSED

[balmy condor]

the fact that resizing nameplates doesn't resize the targetting area for the nameplate is the biggest scam in the game by far

[royal lantern]

PoV: Outlaw rogues explain you how their gameplay looks like (they press sinester strike 50x a minute)

[sour void]

What wait huh

[elfin flame]

firstpull floodgate ive died more than once to staring at nameplates and getting spun on by loaderbots

at this point i pre evasion

[balmy condor]

yeh it just makes them visually smaller, the clickable area on the mob can't be changed

it's a protected cvar

[sour void]

My first run I walked right into loaderbox lol ppl have not been kind for having never seen some of these dungeons

[proud pelican]

I got smoked by frontal in first pull of rookery last night trying to spread bleeds like a neanderthal

[sour void]

Why do you sap that frog btw

[sour void]

This explains a lot

[balmy condor]

fuck that frog

[royal lantern]

what frog

[balmy condor]

that frog knows what it did

[kind forge]

Bubbles I think

[royal lantern]

bubbles is no frog

[balmy condor]

bro bubbles ain't no frog

[royal lantern]

bubbles is a walking war crime

[elfin flame]

whats up guys its me bubbles, a frog

[kind forge]

True he is not

[tawdry mica]

bubbles is a long frog

[sour void]

This is me atm

[royal lantern]

when Sargeras stabbed the world, he aimed for bubbles

[golden loom]

on god

[balmy condor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/871188656357015623/1230735406186631260/succ.gif

me when I fucking get you

[buoyant herald]

he really got that gluk gluk going on huh

[elfin flame]

what the FREAK is it doing

[balmy condor]

it's givin some gum'n'gill

[sour void]

K so no one knows what crimes floodgate frog committed? 😛

[royal lantern]

what if instead of Deathstalker its called Freakstalker, and licks your toes?

[elfin flame]

i gotta go

[sour void]

Sus moment to depart

[buoyant herald]

they're only crimes in 20 countries

[golden loom]

Bubbles started the plague in lordaeron

[balmy condor]

he's getting summoned to floodgate

needs that bubbly from bubbles

[warm vortex]

Kk whispyr

You look like a man that would know

do agil clases have a base doge chance

[solar wyvern]

Rogue does yes

[zenith elm]

What

Bubbles isnt a frog ?

I refuse to believe in a world where bubble isnt a frog

[spice surge]

You gain more dodge the more agility you have

All classes have passive dodge at like 3% or something

Should be like 15% or so with gear for agility users

[zenith elm]

I tested dodging the miniboss blue AOE with evasion, it works guys

[warm vortex]

Yeye that's what im thinking but a friend isn't beliving me

[sour void]

I tried looking up Bubbles on wowhead and found this comment

[warm vortex]

And im trying to find somewhere that says it

[spice surge]

Get something like deja characterstats

And enable all the bullshit stats and youll see

[zenith elm]

What other bullshit stats is there ??

Now i'm curious

[spice surge]

Honor level, parry

Idk a bunch of shit that doesnt matter to have on your character sheet

[pliant grail]

sin vs outlaw in m+ 14-15 keys what are advantages over each other

[sour void]

APM

[small garnet]

how should our m+ damage breakdown look like

[buoyant herald]

Crimson tempest > the rest

It’s a long tail after that

[small garnet]

seems like im doign it right then

[balmy condor]

caustic maybe a bit high for a bleed build

that doesn't look like overall though

[buoyant herald]

Normally I’d have rupture and spatter switched but that’ll do

[balmy condor]

or maybe it's a low key

I don't see fok either

[small garnet]

its +2 im like 630 ilvl

[balmy condor]

yeah okay so if it's a 2 that sudden demise gotta be way higher

caustic should be in the dirt

[small garnet]

wait really hmm

[balmy condor]

I mean it's a 2

[small garnet]

yea true

[balmy condor]

mobs should be exploding before you're able to leverage caustic

10% is already pretty high for a bleed build under normal circumstances

so 10% caustic in a 2 is diabolical

[small garnet]

i blame it on the other dps and it also being cinderbrew

[buoyant herald]

Everything should meet its Demise barely after you’ve got all your bleeds up

If even that long

[analog field]

Guys how do you hit such numbers in sudden demise? I really haven't seen an SD above 10% my envenom is usually higher than SD , wtf am i doing wrong

[small garnet]

think my bleeds deffo fell off on some pulls not sure

[balmy condor]

cinderbrew is the highest demise dungeon in the rotation

there's a ton of tiny shitter mobs that insta pop at 35%

all the tiny bees etc

[small garnet]

also is this like right for single target

[balmy condor]

POISON BOMB

wait

you're not using a bleed build

[small garnet]

no that is from raid

[balmy condor]

oh

[small garnet]

dont worry

[balmy condor]

yeah that's fine

[balmy condor]

more bleed

[small garnet]

i mjust using the uh build thats the standard m+ on wowhead

[balmy condor]

good good

[analog field]

i spam vanish , but maybe when i dont have vanish i dont spam reapply rupture? Idk my rupture is pretty high and my CT but then is SB and Caustic and even envenom

[balmy condor]

where's garrote

garrote under envenom is insane

[analog field]

14 DFC and 13 flood

[balmy condor]

yeah that flood looks about right

[analog field]

yeah but its the lowest sd i have ever had

[balmy condor]

happens sometimes

[analog field]

usually its 7-8

[balmy condor]

the rest of it looks a lot closer though

[analog field]

yeah dfc looks very weird not the usual i would say but i saw sd so low in flood and i was like wtf

[balmy condor]

sometimes it be like that with timings and whatever

[analog field]

ah although i had a big 22 which doesnt happen

i have like max 15 usually

[balmy condor]

spatter in your DFC is really high though

[worn geyser]

our floods look about the same but your splatter is a decent bit higher

[balmy condor]

yeah

[small garnet]

wait so in aoe do i generally spam fok and ct

[balmy condor]

lucky's breakdown is basically spot on

[analog field]

I do a bit more mutilate than fok i think

[balmy condor]

ct is a dot my love

[small garnet]

and mutilate just to keep up uh caustic

so i just dump my combo points into envenom after ct once

[balmy condor]

yep

you maintain it like any other dot

[small garnet]

okay okay

[spice surge]

[small garnet]

do i want thistle tee to always be macrod into shiv or do i want like 2 shiv buttons one macrod and one without

[balmy condor]

yep, macro that shit

[buoyant herald]

Macro that shiv you mean

[worn geyser]

after playing a ton of bleed i love it so much other than on bosses in m+ , i need some new tech to come out to make sanguine not worth to worry about on bosses lmao

falling asleep auto attacking the boss

[small garnet]

she thistle on my tea til i shiv

[rotund oak]

[river vapor]

So is bleed being played in high keys as well or is regular build better

[balmy condor]

bleed is played in high keys

[idle inlet]

If im bad at video games and get myself in a situation where i must choose between refreshing rupture or refreshing deathstalkers mark in single target which is more important?

[rotund oak]

mark

[balmy condor]

mark

[river vapor]

Nice, wish the bleed st was a bit stronger but overall really enjoying the cook

[azure owl]

!rik

[prisma monolith]

Rik Reverb Barrels (and similar spread cleave in raid)

• Not your problem.
• Assassination is the worst target swapping spec in the game, and we have no tools available to deal with the situation of priority spread cleave. Caustic can reach sometimes but similar to fire mage, the boss needs to be on top of the adds, causing caustic to often be out of range.
• If you're truly hellbent on swapping to barrels, hold your nearest darkest night and just slam a darkest night envenom into them and pray. If you're quick enough you can also pool combo points/energy and cast a rupture on a barrel to try and caustic off of them. This still will not do good barrel damage, again, the spec is doomed for it
• Another possible option would be talenting into Crimson Tempest by untalenting Bone Spike and Doomblade. This CAN TECHNICALLY provide a bit of barrel damage, but the spawns need to be immaculate and any difficult spawns will just result in no barrel damage again.
  With all that, the best advice we have for swapping barrels:
• Swap to Subtletly.

[slim locust]

!plater

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[marble hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/world-of-warcraft-warcraft-mudskipper-blind-caveskipper-goofy-fish-gif-13284696980431709193

[lavish wing]

https://tenor.com/view/sinner-the-chum-slum-god-bird-gif-3968603188773794342

[lost wharf]

No caption needed

[rotund oak]

[balmy condor]

I should call her

[muted ridge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8HNzSMhhiHeuEThzEo21se did i sim something wrong, or how is Lens simming more than Ascendance on my assa? I thought that would be by far more.

[balmy condor]

you didn't sim any gems so that recrafted ring is just empty sockets

same with the neck

[hearty reef]

Hi whusypr

[muted ridge]

ooh, wtf, good shout. Thanks, didnt realize, mustve unclicked by mistake.

[balmy condor]

hello

[midnight mist]

hi

[warm vortex]

@midnight mist noob

[midnight mist]

ok blocked

[warm vortex]

I'm shocked i wasn't blocked already ngl

[midnight mist]

why

[warm vortex]

Because i've called you a noob so much haha

And also BM rat

[midnight mist]

i didnt even block that other guy

[warm vortex]

Holly that mouht putting in work

[midnight mist]

so you are safe

[warm vortex]

Why did i say that

Oh lol kk

[cerulean walrus]

How’d you get this gif of Quake?

[warm vortex]

Because he gets with everyone's dads

Apparently

[marble hemlock]

was filming one of our sessions

[sonic schooner]

@midnight mist are u more of a hybrid or bleed type of dude?

[midnight mist]

i hate every assa build equally

[warm vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[sonic schooner]

what about poison build then?

[midnight mist]

ye

hate it aswell

[sonic schooner]

what about fth kingsbane?

[midnight mist]

wtf is fth kingsbane

[sonic schooner]

imagine if assa was pulling out a crossbow with poisoned arrows

[warm vortex]

What about the greenskin wiskers assa build

[sonic schooner]

zac let s do zlan next year yea? Since we can t play rogue anyway let s switch games right

[warm vortex]

WAIT ITS WICKERS

i thought it was whiskers

[midnight mist]

[sonic schooner]

greenskin whiskas fr fr fr

[warm vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-explosion-gif-7138394752046712707

This mf got those greenskin whiskers

[midnight mist]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-meow-silly-cat-cat-explode-yellow-cat-gif-12654556298327310612

[pliant remnant]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-booty-shake-glorp-throwing-it-back-glorp-twerk-gif-15728514058189514652

[warm vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/stitch-licks-slime-gif-7826310196799265789

[late niche]

Hit 80 on Thursday, been grinding some gear, feel like I’m holding my own relative to ilvl in some of these keys. Did my first 10 last night.

Shout out the bleed build this is the most fun I’ve had playing a DPS in forever (mw main)

[pliant remnant]

[late niche]

Sudden demise might be the most satisfying thing in the game

[rotund oak]

not rly but it is satisfying yeah

[viscid spear]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-deployed-alien-cat-gif-10264569409756179931

[warm vortex]

Idk

I got felsteel annihilator on my first try

That was satisfying as fuck

[rotund oak]

Almond pie with icecream on top

u can thank me later

[gusty mirage]

wtf is almond pie

And what flavor ice cream

What kinda half assed suggestion is this

[rotund oak]

this is almonds and pecan pie with vanilla on top

one of the most satisfying things u will eat in your entire life

also

me love you

[pliant grail]

should we macro tea with shiv with hybrid build also ? or na ( play only m+)

[warm vortex]

!shiv

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Assassination uses no other macro aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

[warm vortex]

So yes p much

Because if you macro it with shiv it means you get one for every Kings
At least i think that's why you do it

[pliant grail]

hmm cheers i thought we just macro it with bleeds build 🙂

[normal mist]

The tea macro is older than the hype around the bleed build

[warm vortex]

Not as old as my hype around you though

[normal mist]

Thanks homie, you're the fucking Goat (🐀)

[warm vortex]

The rat
Radical
awesome

uhh

idk

I spent like 20 sec thinking of a word that started w r

that wasn't negative

Tbh i was thinking of using the crabs once i get the darkfuse set thingy

But honestly ill set them for the photo of the mog + pets

then swap to rats

cause i still haven't gotten the pants

[ancient pendant]

if we have around 15 mobs

we should only rupture 5-8 or we can rupture more? (bleed build)

been thinking if spamming rupture deals more dmg than FOK + envenom spam after opener

[warm vortex]

I'm p sure you just get 5 rups 5 gars

Or 6 if you feel quirky but i'm not sure
Cause CT is the main hard hitter

You set up bleeds for scent

And garrote for Combo point

[rotund oak]

for bleed build you go can go above 5

[warm vortex]

Oh rlly?

[ancient pendant]

yep

[late niche]

I get real itchy to hit CT

[warm vortex]

Thought it was same as hybrid

[rotund oak]

hybrid spatters,bleed build bleeds them out

[late niche]

I NEED to break that habit until the IC window ends right (assuming there’s still targets without rupture)?

[warm vortex]

Wait i asusme you'd just spam rup tho

Or gar

and not rup

Cause wouldn't gar be more efficient that rup or not

[rotund oak]

u go gar gar rup rup gar gar ct ig

manually if u can

[wary light]

Not outside of IC window

[warm vortex]

I mean ofc

I was talking about the ic window

[wary light]

You're still wanting to spread as many ruptures as poss on any mob that will live >10 secs

[warm vortex]

Garrote outside of IC window in aoe is like

doo doo

[rotund oak]

not sure exactly what is the number but ye IC iwndow for sure

[wary light]

All in the wowhead aoe rota bit Whispyr put in for bleed build

[rotund oak]

maybe lord whispyr can press replay on that tape again @balmy condor me love you uwu

[warm vortex]

Fair
I think last time i checked the wowhead thing, bleed was still under "alternative" builds or smth

[rotund oak]

(bit up a dude ask how many rupts we do,and if so when)

[warm vortex]

I haven't had too much interest in rogue this tier tbh

[rotund oak]

same ive played it a bit

on mage arc now

[warm vortex]

Tiersets are boring
Hero talents are underwhelming
Damage is still good
Also this season feels like a ranged one

i mean every season does

but this one moreso

[rotund oak]

irrelevant but i ate so much im about to burst

holysht

😂

yeah totally agree

plz continue

[warm vortex]

You just gave me the most brainrotted fucking idea ever

Sorry give me a moment

[wicked quartz]

I'm having a super weird issue with mobs being immune to my ruptures unless I use another ability first like CT

[rotund oak]

[wicked quartz]

i feel like i'm doing something wrong lmfao

[ancient pendant]

do you guys have bonespike weakaura?

[wicked quartz]

just swapped to bleed build never had an issue before it's probably a me thing

[rotund oak]

irrelevant,its passive stuff that gives cps back

[warm vortex]

Nvm i give up making the idea

Was stupid anyway

[warm vortex]

But yea rogue is just

Eh
Lately

I mean i don't dislike it

But i've been enjoying BM a lot more and i feel like there is a lot more they can do with rogue atm
Also i still just miss acro

[dense shadow]

iteresting , i just "droped" BM hunter for rogue

[warm vortex]

For what spec?

[dense shadow]

assassi

[warm vortex]

Fair

You are going to go from mashing KC and BS to Enven and fok
Or well
at least with hybrid

Bleed is diff i think

[rotund oak]

yeah i think i enjoy more rogue now in rbgs my orc is shinning in mapflags,its rly fun

i just blow up guardian druids

they cant do sht

[warm vortex]

Lol fair

[gusty mirage]

people see delicious pie and ignore it

wild

[obtuse ruin]

why does it feel like im doing more ST damage as well with bleed build..

or am I cooked with the hybrid build

[pure moth]

Its also more st damage as well

[royal lantern]

because it does

[lucid rune]

Does the spec feel a lot slower in ST?

[royal lantern]

yes, it slows down in ST

[floral sedge]

!macro

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Assassination uses no other macro aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

[iron vapor]

Oh Christ yeah it feels like you're doing nothing in ST but the meters don't lie

[slow helm]

does the tier set snapshot the dots?

or is it dynamic

[runic hinge]

Dynamic

[slow helm]

bet

[haughty lantern]

does anyone know what the best curios are for a healer bran?

[coral ibex]

there's a guide on icyveins

[haughty lantern]

ehhh i tend not to trust icyveins too much but i'll at least give it a look

[coral ibex]

why

im pretty sure whisp and seli share info

[simple imp]

Did anyone ever tried bleed Build on styx mythic or is it just stupid?

[golden loom]

sounds not good!

[royal lantern]

very stupid

[wary light]

You don't need any more add damage on myth Stix (or you shouldn't) so no real point

[royal lantern]

m+ builds are m+ builds

not boss dmg builds

[iron vapor]

Yeah, caustic spatter is all you need to do big numbers on Stix

Oh and the boss to get below 35%

[cerulean walrus]

Tempest kinda nutty there

But that’s all

[stuck monolith]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[pulsar coral]

is running blackjack in keys insane

[coral ibex]

if you aren't concerned about threat issues then i think its strictly better

[sonic zinc]

sin probably has the least threat issues between the 3 specs, so blackjack can be pretty free

[red schooner]

never ran tricks, never really ran into issues, and blackjack good

30% damage reduction on a pack can be huge sometimes

[dreamy rover]

tricks is objectively better

best counter against a trash tank affix

[coral ibex]

but its useless with a good tank

so it can't be objectively better

[woeful lagoon]

Yooo why are we doing tiny toxic blade over arterial precision now

[dreamy rover]

ragebait

(TTB is better on pure ST fights, AP gets no value from 1 target fights) @woeful lagoon

[royal lantern]

what

it does literally nothing

[hardy rapids]

Lotta ragebait on Easter

[jolly heath]

Today I just got my wet dream comp in m+ lol

[wet roost]

when do you use crimson tempest in ur opener in single target?

or do you only use it after deathmark and double shiv?

for the bleed build*

[scarlet orbit]

we apply ct before we go into cds we first get all bleeds running and then go in cds

[tall atlas]

is trick the play for sprocket

the logs show otherwise

[golden loom]

@coral ibex new pb lets goo

[brave comet]

hows our damage vs sprocket vs other classes?

[golden loom]

this was the 3% wipe

[worldly bridge]

how does sim handle priory trink? Should i equip it for the bois in this case ?

[winter vapor]

for stix mythic do we try and speed up opener or just delay sending KB until he lands first time? (only done two pulls so timers might be off)

[balmy condor]

Send with dm

[balmy condor]

You hold for first adds

Roughly 40s

[winter vapor]

holding full opener or just KB?

[balmy condor]

Full

[winter vapor]

tyvm

[balmy condor]

Can use one shiv towards the start

Cause it’ll be back

[winter vapor]

thanks Whispyr 🙂

[balmy condor]

Np

[worldly bridge]

i meant, does it sim it like the whole party is giving the extra stats, or if u're alone using it

[balmy condor]

Alone

[fervent relic]

We are atm infront of rik mythic, any tips on how to get more add dmg there?

[wraith girder]

Would you say bleed build is worse in Theater of Pain per se? Cause no big pulls?

[balmy condor]

!rik

[prisma monolith]

Rik Reverb Barrels (and similar spread cleave in raid)

• Not your problem.
• Assassination is the worst target swapping spec in the game, and we have no tools available to deal with the situation of priority spread cleave. Caustic can reach sometimes but similar to fire mage, the boss needs to be on top of the adds, causing caustic to often be out of range.
• If you're truly hellbent on swapping to barrels, hold your nearest darkest night and just slam a darkest night envenom into them and pray. If you're quick enough you can also pool combo points/energy and cast a rupture on a barrel to try and caustic off of them. This still will not do good barrel damage, again, the spec is doomed for it
• Another possible option would be talenting into Crimson Tempest by untalenting Bone Spike and Doomblade. This CAN TECHNICALLY provide a bit of barrel damage, but the spawns need to be immaculate and any difficult spawns will just result in no barrel damage again.
  With all that, the best advice we have for swapping barrels:
• Swap to Subtletly.

[balmy condor]

Realistically only worse on first boss otherwise better

[wraith girder]

tyty

[balmy condor]

Maybe the lich area too

[fervent relic]

ty whisper, didnt know about the command

[balmy condor]

But that’s questionable cause demise goes hard

[cerulean walrus]

Big Bleeda

[balmy condor]

Yeah you’re not the first nor the last

We even have this

!richard

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1356363029951938700/image.png?ex=67ec4b02&is=67eaf982&hm=0780c2bf8a3eda7b622f455daac5267c32f3074f79ab55d181e8de68faf2a64e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[cerulean walrus]

!richard

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1356363029951938700/image.png?ex=67ec4b02&is=67eaf982&hm=0780c2bf8a3eda7b622f455daac5267c32f3074f79ab55d181e8de68faf2a64e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[cerulean walrus]

Just had to hit the double reset

[fervent relic]

is there a command to see all commands?

[balmy condor]

No

[cerulean walrus]

Just make a fool of yourself trying shit

It’s entertaining

[worldly bridge]

!omegadpspls

not working 🤔

[balmy condor]

It’s mostly just to shorthand for regs who see the same questions 35 times

Don’t worry about it

[fervent relic]

!amidumb

[cerulean walrus]

If you want to be cheeky you can send your first set of CDs after the first slam so they’ll be rolling when they come out just pray for barrel spawns

Same with the set after intermission

Otherwise gg nothing you can do

[brave comet]

your damage is high im doing slightly less than 2.2k which puts me lower than 10th

[golden loom]

Think the kill time ends up being pretty perfect for sin

[royal lantern]

eh

[golden loom]

like I think it dies kinda just after cds

[royal lantern]

we where a bit slow

like, 30sec after cds he went down

[golden loom]

either way u get a lot of stuff out in execute range

like even the solo KB before final deathmark should be in execute range

[wet roost]

!macro

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Assassination uses no other macro aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

[fallow canopy]

It depends on your group ig, anything close to the 6:20-6:30 mark is good timing for us I think

[golden loom]

we blew up to voidsplashes at 5:40 with boss on 3%

with some people dead before that aswell

[balmy condor]

Solo kb

[golden loom]

Massive dam

[balmy condor]

Earthshattering even

[brave comet]

you were right actually

[real pike]

nooooooooo I did bad damage on the sprocket kill and we're extending lockout now

feels awful

[golden loom]

boss dead 😄

[real pike]

yo are we in the same guild

hahahah

[brave comet]

congrats !

[golden loom]

tyty

[brave comet]

did you save the third DM for pot

i feel like i could easily save the third DM for pot

[golden loom]

yeah would probably have been the play

[real pike]

how would this work

just KB at 4 mins?

and DM at 5?

[tribal estuary]

Hello community, Im new here. I just want to learn more about assa rogue

[real pike]

did more damage than me ffffuuuuuuu

[brave comet]

basically after your second DM, KB a minute later like normally but when DM comes up hold it and just KB

and when your pot is ready DM and KB

[coral ibex]

huge

[brave comet]

i'm not sure how much help this is, since the top parse isnt holding DM for pot

[coral ibex]

massive W

did you get your capstone

[golden loom]

Kill time was 5:36, I used deathmark at 4:41 and 2nd pot at 5:10

[coral ibex]

[golden loom]

what deathstalker does to man

[brave comet]

huge win

[coral ibex]

looking forward to reclear next week

[real pike]

top parsers tend to be Chinese madnesses

[lost wharf]

Gotta try and get that sweet 40mil hit for ultimate pad on Sudden Demise

[real pike]

what's the deal with the adds on bandit? throw a rupture and maybe a garotte on the melee one?

[brave comet]

no

[buoyant herald]

Spatter and then rupture snipe

[brave comet]

just hit the boss

[buoyant herald]

If you’re feeling spicy

[tribal estuary]

got a questions, the spenders must be used at max combo points or it can be at 4 or 5 ?

[real pike]

5+ unless you have Darkest Night in which case it needs to be 7

[tribal estuary]

ok thanks so is wrong if i always wait till max points to cast

[real pike]

yes

[royal lantern]

ye, we where 5:52, which made it a 74 for me

[prime edge]

I may have not read up on the chat, but have people put some ideas together for what rune from the .5 patch to run on assRogue? I've been leaning towards the flat stat booster but I also hear infinite stars

[royal lantern]

killtimers can be a bitch sometimes

[royal lantern]

idk what they even do

[prime edge]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/the-war-within/patch-11-1-5-nightfall-overview

[royal lantern]

does that answer the question

probs the stat proc cus stat procs tend to be good i gues

[buoyant herald]

Assass likes stats and that one seems to be the most powerful in general so

[prime edge]

That's what im thinking. I've been told that it's probably Void Ritual, then Infinite Stars as another option. But the stats from Void Ritual just sound so enticing esp for resource drop from ST

[royal lantern]

resource drop from st? what?

[prime edge]

During Single Target, when energy is running low

[royal lantern]

what have stats to do with that

[prime edge]

Haste increases energy regen. An extra effective 1.2k haste would bring it up even if only a little

[real pike]

!haste

fuck

!energy

[prisma monolith]

Running out of energy in single target is completely normal, intended design of Assassination. As a burst spec our damage is mainly loaded into Deathmark/Shiv and massive Envenoms through stacking multiple nature damage buffs such as Lingering Darkness, Shiv, Darkest Night, Amplifying Poison, and more. This comes with the natural downside of our damage suffering outside of these windows, in part due to the designed lack of energy slowing us down.

Because of this, there is only one minor (0.3%) min-max with energy, which is pooling 3-4 seconds into an upcoming Kingsbane. Ideally this would put you at around 50-60% energy before you enter your Kingsbane, which is more than enough energy alongside thistle tea. Outside of that, spam Envenom and just accept that you will run out of energy. There is nothing you can do to not run out of energy. Playing around Envenom uptime also is not relevant anymore, as Twist the knife allows for two stacks at a time, which reduces wasted uptime dramatically. Without twist the knife, wasting uptime is unavoidable.

[royal lantern]

no it doesnt

like

[real pike]

is there not one that mentions haste

[royal lantern]

yeha it does

but it doesnt

[real pike]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Signet of the Priory will require you have Mastery as your highest RATING (the actual number, not the %). Having Crit and Mastery close to one another will cause procs from Flask or Seaforium Pacemaker to cause your Signet to give you Crit. This is generally worse and will cause Signet to sim poorly.
• Compared to each other, Deathstalker wants more Mastery/Haste than Fatebound, and Fatebound wants more Crit than Deathstalker
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[royal lantern]

10%haste is 1 energy each second

[real pike]

I give up

[royal lantern]

so for every 10%haste you get a gigantic 1x more mutilate in a full minute

yes its very slightly more cus of bleed tick rate, but that doesnt push it aswell

your energy doesnt go from "i run out" to "i get full energy" because of stats

assa is supposed to run out at points

[prime edge]

That brings me back to the original question of the greater rune. Where would the stat increase from Void Ritual improve greater than something like infinite stars

[royal lantern]

stats dont change that, they have no effect

[royal lantern]

cus stats are dmg

and dmg is good

[buoyant herald]

The damage procs are also heavily nerfed versions of their former selves

[prime edge]

Makes sense

[jade abyss]

first boss floodgate we spatter from boss or killing adds first ? talking from 14+

[royal lantern]

ye

bleed them all and keep CT running

[short pine]

there a way to see all the ! commands

!commands

shi

feel like ima ask stupid obvious questions that could be answered by commands..

[normal mist]

Just ask them anyway

[short pine]

maybe when home..

i gotta just send a log and get roasted cause i keep thinking ik what im doing then i don’t

[runic hinge]

same

[neon lodge]

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Assassination uses no other macro aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

[warm vortex]

D:

[tribal estuary]

is this a good overall dps from a 8 key? 659 ilvl

[cinder geode]

What do yall sim in ST ? I can't seem to break 2.1m and im 668

[real pike]

@golden loom what you think of bandit so far

[golden loom]

idk its just following the boss and hitting it

coinlines are fun atleast

like it so far

[real pike]

I'm finding these a lil inconsistent

but nice concept

[real pike]

yea patchwerk vibes

I'm enjoying being the highest boss damage

even if my add damage is below tanks

[golden loom]

yeah boss damage goes crazy

[prime edge]

I personally sim for 2.18 right now at 667. Could be any number of reasons like talents, crystals, enchants, stat prio, etc

[buoyant herald]

Assass is literally the lowest simming dps spec in the game

Closer to prot war than devoker

[humble verge]

post your sim then

[buoyant herald]

2.1/2 sounds about right for that ilvl

[cinder geode]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nYpBTNHgFTo3LfTTsZnNHk

[buoyant herald]

But also worrying about what you can do to increase your sim is kinda crazy work, they don’t mean much, they’re a tool

[humble verge]

you said you cant seem to break 2.1

what

[cinder geode]

am i at 2.2?

[tulip veldt]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Signet of the Priory will require you have Mastery as your highest RATING (the actual number, not the %). Having Crit and Mastery close to one another will cause procs from Flask or Seaforium Pacemaker to cause your Signet to give you Crit. This is generally worse and will cause Signet to sim poorly.
• Compared to each other, Deathstalker wants more Mastery/Haste than Fatebound, and Fatebound wants more Crit than Deathstalker
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[prime edge]

yeah brother you're fine lol

[humble verge]

but yeah, dont worry about your sims

its good

[buoyant herald]

Spec caps out at like 2.4 in bis gear

[humble verge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ifrSdYQE4XzMsBpR1cdbid im hitting 2.2

but then again, this is fully optimized to what i play*, im not even using r2 pot, augment and what not

[cinder geode]

I'm just tryna hit orange parses for guild recruitment, wondering how there are 2.5+ on pure ST fights like sprocket

[prime edge]

That champ trinket is a mood. My priory is also champ

[humble verge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iyv5dQBugQEVmUpWjLLUBv bit under

[prime edge]

I mean that all comes down to positioning, timing, what mechanics you're doing, raid comp, lots of factors for parses

[buoyant herald]

Rng, PI, extended execute etc

[humble verge]

^

[cinder geode]

I think I just got unlucky, it died right before 3rd DM

[humble verge]

sims are just dummy dps

[buoyant herald]

And they’re also a mid point in a range

[prime edge]

Like H Vexxie last week, I hit 3.6m overall dps and was only 96% overall and like 84% ilvl (666-668)

But then for reverb im dropping down to like 1.4 1.5m dps

granted i do more mechanics than rogues are supposed to

I find that parses is reliant on the right people doing the right mechanic

[golden loom]

me hit boss

[cinder geode]

When i go into pugs for parsing im a sentry turret lol

Whatever happens happens

[prime edge]

Yeah then positioning and timing. Logs have a replay function you could study some of your own placement and such

[golden loom]

thats what I did for my 99 on heroic stix

[cinder geode]

Replay? never seen that feature b4

[golden loom]

got ball 3 times -> straight into boss, 0% debuff uptime

[prime edge]

It's not perfect

But worth taking a look at

Doesn't require login or premium or whatever

[iron vapor]

What ball? I didn't see no ball.

Sounds like a hunter mechanic.

[golden loom]

https://tenor.com/view/basketball-gif-12641753427791903538

[cinder geode]

wtf that feature is insane

[prime edge]

These are my bests. I'm still learning and do not claim to be great in any regards. But maybe just to give you an idea of some other players. (heroic)

[humble verge]

me when im mythic gaming

[prime edge]

Yeah see I'd love to pick your brain on cauldron

[cinder geode]

I just want an orange parse bruh

[humble verge]

this was like 1st week

i have not improved since then OME

[prime edge]

Oh lmao

[humble verge]

it was a r3 at the time

[prime edge]

You cant just delete that

[humble verge]

ofc the blue comes in and flexes

[prime edge]

well vexxie is easy

[humble verge]

nvm it was 2nd week but, 67% in current parse

or 3rd, since we only killed vexie first week

[prime edge]

CD's when armor breaks. Lust during that. Splatter for mobs if the fight goes that long

[golden loom]

my 100 is keeping up pretty well

[humble verge]

is this still from 2w ago or

nvm its 3 almost 4

[golden loom]

26th

[humble verge]

me on the 26th

idk, if i can get all orange logs this tier, it'd be nice

[prime edge]

Yeah yall gamers

[lavish geyser]

just did a priory, and we skipped the last boss shield mechanic. it didnt happen, is that an actual skip, or just a bug?

[humble verge]

sounds like a bug

[prime edge]

def a bug

[buoyant herald]

🫠

[prime edge]

not all orange. pain

[humble verge]

yeah, but is this mythic 🤨

[buoyant herald]

god no

[humble verge]

yeah

when i point out orange logs i mean mythic

😭

[buoyant herald]

oh ok, silly me, i'll get back in the mud with the rest of us plebs then

[humble verge]

nah dw

[buoyant herald]

let me just

[humble verge]

icl, dont look at queen and silken

[buoyant herald]

pull this rag blanket over me

[lavish geyser]

feel like most heroic logs just turn into 99s tbh

[buoyant herald]

the nights are so cold

[humble verge]

im surprised my bloodbound didnt even go 99

[lavish geyser]

but mythic logs, can get competetive at the top sometimes

[humble verge]

i could show you our DHs logs from nerub

but then again, idk how many parses they actually had

[golden loom]

idk think gallywix is gonna remain like that for a while

need to keep pugging it tho and selling drops 😎

[buoyant herald]

https://tenor.com/view/uncle-roger-fuiyoh-gif-21425901

[humble verge]

me when i heroic

kekw

we are just doing last 3/4

also surprised bandit is r6

[prime edge]

yeah that reverb op

[golden loom]

we only do optional heroics on fridays and I am pretty much never able to go

[humble verge]

ah

[golden loom]

so I have not done a lot of heroic this tier

[humble verge]

we do optional 1900 heroics

we start at 1930

[vital flicker]

You should tell them to do richard again for you

[humble verge]

usually on wednesday

[humble verge]

it can stay 25 for the rest of the expansion, i wouldnt care

as long as im over 80 avg i can boost kekw

me when i beat people who get 3-4 PIs on bandit kekw

[true tapir]

Bandit is a bit of dps trap

If you dont get the bomb adds you dps less

[grand trail]

yo happy easter my friends

any mugzee gamers

im thinking if i should send or hold 4min KB since im thinking i wont get two 2min in p2 otherwise

[buoyant herald]

if you hold and don't lose a use then it's a no brainer

[turbid harbor]

It’s a dps stop anyway

I ended up not using

[grand trail]

idk we are like 15% at 7min

[turbid harbor]

Depends on strat now actually

Are you dps stopping before phasing to intermission with 5 heal

[grand trail]

just little

depends

sometimes it line up sometimes dont

iim switching to add when he spawn

but than you push and you are like 10-15s holding whent hey press BL

[turbid harbor]

They BL at 40, I wait until after first charge to pop CDs in execute anyway

And still had time for 2 death marks in last phase

[grand trail]

well than i can use kb

[haughty flicker]

mfw i run multiple keys with outlaw gems in my circlet bc i forgot i was fucking around with it

[turbid harbor]

I decided it wasn’t worth because we were dps stopping for like 20s anyway, and you’ll probably have to stop for longer as you get more pulls on the boss

But if the timings work for you then not much downside

[grand trail]

hopefully killing tommorow

[wanton nest]

I'm about to try assassination this week

[grand trail]

velf very pog on boss

[arctic shale]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[turbid harbor]

Velf seems fun but you don’t need the boss damage in p1, and then I was hard assigned to a cage for ad dps in last phase anyway, so had no use to escape

[sweet plover]

guys, do you know any good videos that i can look at to learn assa rogue? i learn more when i watch ppl play then when i go into a priority list, i currently play sub but id like learning assa as well

[buoyant herald]

Check out Whispyrs guide vids

[wet roost]

made the switch today bro welcome

dont even know what im doing and already dealing more dmg than on my sub

[sweet plover]

idk i play rogue as an alt for fun, and i'd like learning assa also

[sour void]

You adopting? Lemme know.

[stable pasture]

Is it a talent that gives shroud extra group move speed?

[haughty flicker]

for subtlety

[stable pasture]

Ah ok its sub only

ty

[wanton nest]

I adopted 4 months ago, she's adorable haha.

[sour void]

Awww that's cute. Pet or child I should clarify.

[haughty flicker]

highway, actually

[warm vortex]

What dif

[wanton nest]

Child. She turned 4 months old tuesday.

[spice spire]

[winged sun]

Hi quake

I miss you

@spice spire i tried bleed build several times in high keys, i cant seem to make it work at all

I often ended up with worse dungeon timings

Playing it

However in the otherhand, supercharger (no subterfuge) with kingsbane did very well timer wise

Not sure why thats exactly a thing in higher keys

i need your insight and expert opinions dr.quake

[haughty flicker]

[winged sun]

Just fyi, i am aware of all the minmaxes regarding the bleed build

Any sin experts feel free to reply

[haughty flicker]

[royal lantern]

give me a logical explenation why "every 30sec ill do a envenom with 20% more dmg" makes your "timers better"

[south prawn]

Prio dmg isnt that significant in all dungs no?

[winged sun]

Idm having a conversation on this

Wait till im on pc

[royal lantern]

like, idk man, it looks like as if you look for a problem where it doesnt really exist? there are a shitton of things that impact dungeon timers, and you changing a single talent that makes near 0 difference in ST dmg is not 1 of them lol

[south prawn]

Bleed build kinda doesnt have prio dmg tho

Atleast compared to standard build

[winged sun]

Prio dmg is really important

Most keys u dont need prio on u play sub

[royal lantern]

yeha but bleed is more prio on assa

cus deathmark hits harder

[buoyant herald]

wasn't sub being touted as the prio damage god early season

[winged sun]

?

[buoyant herald]

or was that before tier nerf

[south prawn]

Thats like in dragonflight

[winged sun]

I dont understand how bleed has more prio just because of deathmark

Lol

Its a 2 min cd

U need sustain prio dmg

[royal lantern]

becase kingsbane barely does any dmg in dungeon builds

[spice spire]

I’m no expert at top end.
In the end what you need is what you’ll play. Bleed provides the most consistent and constant damage but if you’re fine with the burst windows that the other provides, w/e.
bleed makes it a true 2m versus a minute class with two minute burst dps - just run what works for you

[buoyant herald]

naw a lot of commentators were raving about sub's prio damage, but it might have been ptr now that i think about it

[spice spire]

Nothing matters

[royal lantern]

like, kingsbane is NOT strong right now

[buoyant herald]

just trickster/flurry stuff

[winged sun]

I’ll be back tryan

Brb

[south prawn]

Dont believe that shit until u see it in mdi

[buoyant herald]

well i didn't lol

[south prawn]

And last time sub was played was in shadowlands i think

[buoyant herald]

i wasn't seeing it when i was playing it

[royal lantern]

people where raving about subs prio dmg since always

even when it didnt exist

[south prawn]

I remember ppl were meming sub rogues for doing tank dps in shadowlands mdi

Cause poor rogues were spamming evis

[royal lantern]

like, assa had more prio dmg for a longer time now, but people still think "sub = BfA zul = GIGA PRIO DMG"

[winged sun]

sub has very good burst prio dmg even now

[buoyant herald]

here's my point being proven

[south prawn]

BFA? U mean outlaw heaven?

[winged sun]

i'll login to wow to point out the specifics

[haughty flicker]

sub prio on zul got the spec deleted for an expansion

[winged sun]

sub does more prio dmg in a short window btw

same with ele

[haughty flicker]

arcane prio seems nuts atm too

burst prio

[winged sun]

sin burst prio is way lower than you'd expect

on average, it is indeed high

[royal lantern]

ye sure, its more that people LOVE to overhype sub prio dmg all the time like crazy, and even did it at times when sub had horrible prio dmg

[winged sun]

ele definitely has the highest burst prio dmg in the game

yea, s4 SL was one of those seasons

same with s3

where sub prio was complete dogshit

and overhyped

i agree

but

rn, it has good cds so it has good prio on many packs

ok back on topic of this build vs bleed in much higher keys

again, this comparison is not for +16s +15s

as these keys are considered low for that comparison in specific

im not sure whats up with this build but it only does amazing at the very highest of keys (18s and above with our current ilvl)

[royal lantern]

im gonna be honest, that looks kinda like a weird mixup there

like

[winged sun]

heres a breakdown of this build's dmg on 1st boss floodgates

kingsbane doing 0 dmg is quiet something extraordinary to say when its doing 50m boss dmg

[royal lantern]

it takes improved garrote, but then no MA

it takes Twist the Knife but then not Dashing Scoundrell?

like, if you take those talents, you would take the follow up talents aswell because they actualy give them more value

[winged sun]

packs dont live for 12 seconds in +18s

for master assassin to do as good as the sim says

+18s pack live a very very long time

so you pull incredibly big

to save time

heres an example of how big pulls look like

[royal lantern]

that has nothing to do with 12seconds, its just that you seem to take talents but then not the followup things that give them more value overall i gues

the "twist the knife but no dashing" is the bigger offender there tbh

[winged sun]

i have 95% envenom uptime btw

on pure st

MA wont do that

way higher pure st dps

saves ALOT of time

[royal lantern]

its a boss with a dmg amp mate, you had atleast 1 cast inside the amp

the problem with kingsbane is that its a talent with a shitton of prior talents you have to take, and then its not tuned THAT high right now, a Deathstalker DN envenom does the same/more dmg then a normal 1min CD kingsbane

[winged sun]

?

[royal lantern]

so its a bit weird right now

[winged sun]

u never send cds on dmg amp

literally never

[golden loom]

U could drop bonespike/doomblade for dashing/MA in that build right? Could pop off

[winged sun]

dont think so, thats an aoe loss

you dont need dashing rly

i always have above 90% uptime on envenom

on all fights

pure st fights that is

[royal lantern]

and ye what uwu said, boneskipe/doomblade would be drop tbh

like, bonespike is "only" a speed up talent overall

and doomblade is doomblade

aka a fucking abomination lmao

[winged sun]

you generally want consistent dmg

you dont want to rely on master assassin

[royal lantern]

not about MA right now

[winged sun]

besides, dslice has restealths

in real keys u dont want to restealth whatsoever

u always want to chain

[royal lantern]

it doesnt iirc?

[desert crest]

It does

[winged sun]

it does have quiet alot more than a real high key

and

[golden loom]

MA sounds way worse without subterfuege anyways so not a big deal

[royal lantern]

dslice was missing something

[winged sun]

packs die alot faster in dslice

[royal lantern]

oh yeha wait it was SD executes

[winged sun]

than in a real high key

[royal lantern]

not stealth

my bad

[winged sun]

issue is

u really need high st

in those high keys