assassination

[hidden bay]

since you take dmg after uh. 2?3? seconds

getting out of stealth most likely

nvm you said DM

[azure shoal]

you think i'm just sitting there not attacking for 3 seconds on pull

[hidden bay]

yes!

didnt have any issues in any pull

[zenith elm]

Anyone can give advice for heroic gallywix ?

i'm hesitating when to send my CD for the secon deathmark

second*

[hidden bay]

on cd, shit dies so fast anyway

[arctic socket]

Just returning from a very long break from retail I’m sure this may be posted on a guide somewhere but when doing mythic plus is it normal for single target to feel clunky doing bleed build

[hidden bay]

yes

[zenith elm]

Yeah but near 2 min there is lots of movement so idk

[red schooner]

If adds are living long enough for you to get good add spatter damage then send it straight away, if not, hold it til he moves to the side and go from there

That's my go to game plan on it

[red schooner]

Yeah we get giga energy starved ST

It be that way

[arctic socket]

Ty

Was just making sure I’m not just missing something

[zenith elm]

good plan, i was always sending to the sides, but i feel like adds live for like 7/8 sec so i can make better use out of caustic splatter there

since there is way more adds

[hidden bay]

try to maintain all dots, nothing else you can do

[arctic socket]

Playing without kb feels rly rly weird though

[dawn kelp]

10 m+ build variations what’s time to be alive

[red schooner]

Nah you grow to love it

[zenith elm]

i fcking love it

[spice surge]

[red schooner]

I mean it probably ain't optimal but it feels better for me

[zenith elm]

now when i do Raid, i nearly always forget about KB

Cause of M+ build

[red schooner]

I will one day figure out how to get the bleed build icon, can't see it in roles channel

[limber lion]

Pins

[zenith elm]

I think it is optimal? idk really

cause then you can just apply bleeds on the giants and then you're good for a few global on the boss afterwards in terms of energy

[sonic schooner]

Ceverion

[zenith elm]

so i guess its more efficient to send on CD cause the big adds we apply bleed?

[sonic schooner]

[red schooner]

Sweet, cheers. Thought it'd be in the roles channel at top of the discord

[obtuse cliff]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[zenith elm]

Uwucutegirl, do you have good parses on gally? wanna see the difference between us both

@golden loom

[golden loom]

uh idk this was last week in a pug https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xKCF6q9h13Xz7mHc?fight=50&type=damage-done

only done 2 kills with the guild on it like 3 weeks ago at this point, and had 2 potential 100 parses that ended in 0,5% hp wipes

[zenith elm]

Damn i feel you !

I feel like my caustic splatter isnt utilized to his whole potential

[indigo sphinx]

FWIW this was from last night first kill. I was just sending 2nd on CD, tbh no idea if it was worth.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RgvnYNmK9P7pbTV3?fight=last&type=damage-done

It is just awky mo mo timing

And the sstep weirdness makes it feel pretty doggy to play

[calm ravine]

why we play now with Tiny toxic blade? How is it better than Arterial with +30% bleed damage?

[golden loom]

its only played on Lockenstock (full single target fight) where its a minor energy save

[spice surge]

Bleeds dont do damage with the raid build

[golden loom]

Was gonna say that was a blasphemous thing to say before you edited to raid build

[fallen orbit]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[tawdry halo]

!rik

[prisma monolith]

Rik Reverb Barrels (and similar spread cleave in raid)

• Not your problem.
• Assassination is the worst target swapping spec in the game, and we have no tools available to deal with the situation of priority spread cleave. Caustic can reach sometimes but similar to fire mage, the boss needs to be on top of the adds, causing caustic to often be out of range.
• If you're truly hellbent on swapping to barrels, hold your nearest darkest night and just slam a darkest night envenom into them and pray. If you're quick enough you can also pool combo points/energy and cast a rupture on a barrel to try and caustic off of them. This still will not do good barrel damage, again, the spec is doomed for it
• Another possible option would be talenting into Crimson Tempest by untalenting Bone Spike and Doomblade. This CAN TECHNICALLY provide a bit of barrel damage, but the spawns need to be immaculate and any difficult spawns will just result in no barrel damage again.
  With all that, the best advice we have for swapping barrels:
• Swap to Subtletly.

[red schooner]

!Richard

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1356363029951938700/image.png?ex=67ec4b02&is=67eaf982&hm=0780c2bf8a3eda7b622f455daac5267c32f3074f79ab55d181e8de68faf2a64e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[tawdry halo]

memeing with my feral druid guildie

[lethal lynx]

Wait the icy veins and wowhead guides differ on what build they say to run for m+

which one do I pick

[midnight atlas]

hybrid build from wowhead

[red schooner]

Nah go bleed build

[midnight atlas]

no i dont think i will

sims a bit lower, resident sleeper build. boring to play.

[red schooner]

I was a late convert but I tried it and, yeah, fun

[lethal lynx]

oh the bleed build is in the non-season 2 section

[pliant remnant]

yeh bleed build is boring

[red schooner]

I thought it was simming higher now, and Sims don't take sudden demise fully into account

[pliant remnant]

like I just wanna press envenom more

[lethal lynx]

I'm so confused why these wowhead guides have a "season 2" section that never gets updated after the main page changes

[midnight atlas]

bleed boring af. made for old ppl

[golden loom]

search engine optimazation probably @lethal lynx

just like they have to have BIS lists etc

[spice surge]

[lethal lynx]

Yeah but I just think the talent build pages should be synced

I click the season 2 section expecting it to be the most updated and it ain't

[royal lantern]

i mean, it is

its just that a alternate build exists aswell that is good

[golden loom]

to be fair, under the season 2 cheat sheet m+ build it literally lists bleed

[royal lantern]

and thats in wowhead aswell

[lethal lynx]

That's fair, tbf I usually just click "talent builds" on the left and copy the one I want

[spice surge]

Higher or about the same, depending on target counts. But like you said it doesnt factor in sudden demise, which is kinda unfair because sudden demise does a fuckton of damage

Like even in 14s its doing 7-11% of my damage

[royal lantern]

what is the treshhold for a fuckton

[red schooner]

More than a shitton slightly less than a metric fuckton

[dawn kelp]

Is bleed build better if you don’t have a targets that are going to survive kingsbsne ramp? Why play one over the other

[spice surge]

Imo bleed is always better

[red schooner]

Bleed build doesn't run kingsbane

[pliant remnant]

That is what he implied, yes

[dawn kelp]

Lol

[hot flicker]

What the trick to getting good damage from sudden demise? Mine seems to be fairly low

[spice surge]

idk keep your bleeds up

[hot flicker]

Yeah I mean not much else to it right?

Maybe my uptime is just bad

Also just curious does sudden demise include damage amps for example last boss in rookery?

[red schooner]

Additionally, hybrid leans more into caustic damage, so it has a longer ramp up time for you to get your damage out, which ain't great when mobs die quick. Bleed build is, well, bleeds which gets sent out earlier and sudden demise does more.

[red schooner]

Oh shit this is a good point, this has the potential for some stupid demise hits if done right

[spice surge]

Pretty sure it does

[red schooner]

[hot flicker]

Yeah it would be massive on that boss

[golden loom]

Catch me demising Vexie to the shadow realm next clear

[red schooner]

Sods law the damage amp would end before demise threshold hits

[raw crane]

When I garrote and rupture out of stealth, do I do it on max combo points for all targets up to 5?

[royal lantern]

not really, bosses have a bit more hp mate lol

[royal lantern]

5+ CP is the rule

garrote is no finisher

[hot flicker]

Garrote as many as you can rupture is 5+

[red schooner]

Nah the goal is for the single giga demise hit

[nova shadow]

@balmy condor I just tested your new build man I cannot fall under 9m on dummies gotta try this in some cinderbrew 12s

it looks insane

[spice surge]

Well dummies are kinda skewed

Because its in perma execute

and it procs demise a lot

[nova aspen]

even in rookery +15?

[red schooner]

Damage amp + deathmark + shiv + zoldyck has potential

[nova shadow]

Ah I see

[hot flicker]

Save DM for last shield break haha

[nova aspen]

i feel like i get more out of the hybrid build there

[quartz trellis]

How is the ST on the bleed build?

[nova shadow]

Aint no way bleed is better in rookery right xd 😄

[nova aspen]

we were on track to time it and healer walks into last boss and falls into pit

[spice surge]

Why would it not be

[nova aspen]

[gusty mirage]

@spice surge I’m shitting in people 10 ilvl higher than me in overalls. Are you proud of me dad?

[red schooner]

I'm still legit sure I demised the boss though the shield on one run

[spice surge]

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-boy-cowboy-gif-10666429685024450065

[gusty mirage]

[royal lantern]

im always proud of you

[nova shadow]

Does the opener changes

like when do you shiv

[red schooner]

Either way boss had shield up and died so

[gusty mirage]

[nova shadow]

deathmark shiv re-vanish or what

[nova aspen]

i feel like i do less ST in bleed so i must be doing something wrong

[nova shadow]

and watch everything bleeding 😄

[nova aspen]

i CT in ST, i shiv x2 for dm

shiv x2 out of it

[spice surge]

Idk people keep saying this, or something similar about bleed oversimming, but when im trying it on dummies im getting pretty much exactly the numbers the sim is expecting (with adjusting the execute windows)

[nova shadow]

oh ye dummies are fake sudden demise 2nd top dps

on ST

[spice surge]

Obviously im not counting the demises

[hot flicker]

I mean that shouldn’t be possible unless boss actual hp is in threshold no dmg amp on shield either

It’s quite a chunky shield I don’t think you could Denise the whole shield lol

[red schooner]

Ye I'm not sure what happened, shield came back up and boss had 4m hp left, then he fell over 5 seconds later

[nova aspen]

if i can get a dm window in execute then its about the same

[red schooner]

So, no clue if it was demise or something else weird happening

Didn't have logs going on the run so can't find out either

[nova aspen]

in a 4 min boss fight

[hot flicker]

I guess it depends key level

[nova aspen]

or so

does hybrid do more prio?

[spice surge]

Not really

Damage profile is pretty much the same

[nova aspen]

im still playing sub in top lol

[hot flicker]

When I e tried dummy’s it’s difficult because they get stuck in execute

[nova aspen]

timed a 14 last night

[stuck jacinth]

I don’t know much but spell says ignore damage absorb so does that mean it’d ignore the shield and demise based off remaining hp?

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=343769/sudden-demise

[nova aspen]

so much ST there

[subtle tundra]

i saved a high key stonevault at some point cause i used deathmark and killed the boss through the shield

[nova aspen]

we were on track to time 15 but tank dc

[subtle tundra]

or maybe just before

dont remember

[nova shadow]

I need outlaw guide for top and workshop I feel so useless playing my assa there

[hallow tinsel]

Good morning you stealthy bastards. I’m gonna peel yall off your current convo. I know the sudden demise bleed build is popular for low to mid level keys, but people start going for a more poison base at higher keys.

What’s considered a higher key? When does poison outperform bleed?

[red schooner]

Shit, might have been demise then

[subtle tundra]

sudden demise my GOAT

[hot flicker]

Yeah the demise will proc on hp threshold but you won’t get the damage amp on that boss if shield is up I think anyway

Not 100% sure

[red schooner]

Boss was low enough hp where normal demise must have gone

Without the amp

[nova aspen]

supposedly bleed outperforms in all keys

[red schooner]

But then idk

I wish I had a log running I want to find out

[hot flicker]

But I don’t think Demise is enough to clear shield unless it’s low key

[red schooner]

Demise ignores the shield /damage absorbs

Got the ignore damage absorb property on wowhead

[hot flicker]

Yeah so I guess you just killed boss

[red schooner]

So, shield may not have been relevant. Though demise also has the ignore damage modifiers property also

So no big damage amp stuff

[hot flicker]

If it was only 4m hp on boss demise just killed boss

[red schooner]

Last boss rookery and me have a history of the boss regaining shield at low hp amounts. I hate that boss.

[hallow tinsel]

I gotcha. I assumed it was best if your able to kill a few mobs per pull off your first set of bleeds from your opener + IC but once you gotta start reapplying bleeds it would lose its flare.

[nova shadow]

Mhm my dungeon slice sims higher 30k with hybrid no buffs

[red schooner]

Did an 11 week one, shield back up at 7mil hp, run failed

[dawn kelp]

Maghar or orc

[hot flicker]

Yeah I failed my last run there

[golden loom]

female human

[hot flicker]

20 secs left in clock and shield came up on 10%

Unfortunately I was playing sub that run

[royal lantern]

male vulpera

[hot flicker]

Maybe Demise coulda times that key for me lol

[spice spire]

uwucutegirl

Smh

[spice spire]

Surprised not a dracthyr

[royal lantern]

no tmog

no race change

[spice spire]

Damn

[golden loom]

me when I have to play stupid orc!

[spice spire]

Wth!

Classic Andy smh

[nova aspen]

classic is fun once per year

[golden loom]

I already did my 4 keys for the week, get to play the good game now

[spice spire]

I gotta finish my 20th tonight Smdh

[red schooner]

4 more it's fine you can do it

[golden loom]

maybe

need to hit 60 tho..

[red schooner]

I have to maximise my vault chances because me and the vault have a rocky relationship

I even did delves, just in case

[golden loom]

what do u want from delves

[spice spire]

Pain

[red schooner]

Mechano-core wouldn't be the worst thing

Although I mostly want delves for the warband background screen

[golden loom]

I need to do like 3 or 4 more delves to get that one

[red schooner]

I'm like halfway there but I've not been delving on alts

[royal lantern]

real

[golden loom]

only gearing my warrior has done is delves

and like 4/8 heroic

[modest gazelle]

how important is maintain 150+ energy on bosses in M+? find myself struggling to do so while trying to actually use my spells, esp when there are no adds to pop a bleed on

[warm vortex]

Was doing a ToP 13 and had the tank panic cause we had like 11 min after 3rd boss

he decides the best way to speed up a key is to go to the third platform in the litch area and get a pull with:
3 bone spikes
1 big soul dude
and a necrot bolt ad

It did speed up the key for sure, we disbanded like 20 seconds after

[radiant raven]

hahaha

That's one way to do it

I had a funny weekly key where a tank went "watch this" and then didn't do anything for a solid minute. And then went offline.

[warm vortex]

Holy fuck that's gold

Btw ges my mog is so close to done

[radiant raven]

Hell yeah

[warm vortex]

I'll put in mog chat

[spice surge]

Not important

[gusty mirage]

Surely I get something useful in the vault and not more rings tomorrow, right guys? Right?

[radiant raven]

🙏

I believe in BIG LOOT.

[royal lantern]

you get rings

jesters

[subtle tundra]

youre playing wow?

Loser?

[gusty mirage]

I’d like to upgrade my 623 chest lmao

[gusty mirage]

Mad?

[subtle tundra]

bored

[gusty mirage]

I haven’t done raid at all

I should prolly pug heroic

Tbh

[royal lantern]

its a exchange

varas stops, you start

[radiant raven]

The raid is cool on heroic

[gusty mirage]

Varas is just mad poe 2 sucks and poe1 won’t be updated for another 2+ months

My little Romanian twink

[subtle tundra]

im so booooooooore

d

elden ring may 30th

[gusty mirage]

Last epoch in like a week

[subtle tundra]

fucking shoot me

[gusty mirage]

Should keep you entertained until elden ring

[subtle tundra]

im not sold on last epoch

[fresh pelican]

if ever 🤡

[gusty mirage]

I mean it’s something to do, the combat is great

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-tony-soprano-tony-soprano-the-sopranos-sad-yeah-sad-acceptance-gif-14567640609545893366

[radiant raven]

I really tried to like Last Epcoh and I dunno what put me off.

But I just couldn't click with it

[gusty mirage]

The shitty end game?

[subtle tundra]

im so bored im going to university today

[radiant raven]

Probably

[gusty mirage]

The cartoony graphics?

[subtle tundra]

like what

[fresh pelican]

last epoch is so floaty, you feel like nothing hits

[radiant raven]

I don't think I even hit the end-game. Just something. I was the cool paladin guy. I like dhis design a lot.

[radiant raven]

Honestly I think it might be this

[gusty mirage]

Like the combat feels great, but also like nothing feels like it hits hard at the same time

It’s really weird lmao

[radiant raven]

Yeah, that's a good way to describe it.

I should give it a revisit.

[gusty mirage]

One of the new abilities looks neat (they copied heartseeker from d4(

[fresh pelican]

cannot be worse than Jonathan's vision

[gusty mirage]

TRUE

I’ll try poe 2 again in 1.0

[subtle tundra]

yesterday i went to gym to do LEG DAY cause i was so bored

[gusty mirage]

I’m not playing this garbage tbh

So yes varas

I log on and play keys with friends

Because I have nothing else to do in the 3 hours after work besides eat food for the first time all day

[subtle tundra]

you know how i like challenging content

and they fucking made keys so piss easy

an infant could time a 10

[gusty mirage]

Yes you are a fan of cock and ball torture

[golden loom]

is there even single player in nightreign?

[subtle tundra]

i have friends uwu

[golden loom]

isnt it like a battle royal

[gusty mirage]

I mean I just play it to hang out with the boys

That’s the only reason I resubbed

[subtle tundra]

its like a roguelike

[gusty mirage]

No time for raid unfortunately

@subtle tundra try bapbap with your friends

Game looks fun

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2226280/BAPBAP/

Steam

BAPBAP

BAPBAP is a roguelike party game where you craft the most unfair builds to make your friends hate you.

Invite and play with up to 7 friends in an all out brawl. Pick a random power after every round and craft the most ridiculous (or regrettable) build possible.

BAPBAP is best played with friends who can handle betrayal. Set up custom games…

▶ Play video

[radiant raven]

I really liked my time with PoE2's launch but.. so many bad choices. Also warrior, so, lmao.

[nova shadow]

is gally ring even that much better then like cinderbrew/top rings ?

[subtle tundra]

maybe
we played a lot of risk of rain 2

[gusty mirage]

I was watching my old guildies play it last night

And it was hilarious because one guy was getting so mad that the builds were “broken” which is the entire point of the game lmao

[nova shadow]

Guys is there a way to get delve item as mythic trait

[gusty mirage]

There is not

Hero track is the best it’ll get

[subtle tundra]

yep thats why i play modded ror2. every run i get op
it just depends if its op in 15 or 30 minutes

[nova shadow]

I think the bis neck is from delves I randomly got it but its champion only Gobtastic Bling really decent stats

[subtle tundra]

chill and banter with friend(s)

who needs sweaty cuck games

[radiant raven]

I wish. Sadly not.

[subtle tundra]

(i complained about m+ being too easy 3 minutes ago)

@gusty mirage i donated blood today
who knows maybe i am a good member of society

[quartz trellis]

Nothing wrong with this, the content scales so the challenge is there for those that want it.

[nova shadow]

Have anyone insights on this mechanoce-core amplifier I have it on 665 and it sims higher than pacemaker but why is everyone playing pacemaker

it procs either 4k mastery or 5k vers for me, but ye probably the random crit drops are better for building combo points so more dps

[subtle tundra]

eh if its early season it shouldnt be
i think skill should be rewarded

but whatever

im a sweaty nerd

[quartz trellis]

Portal level M+ was always easier of the back of a season

[subtle tundra]

yeah cause they are geared to the teeth

[quartz trellis]

The only time it’s remotely difficult is when you come fresh from levelling.

[subtle tundra]

i mean when you dont have gear

[quartz trellis]

Indeed

[subtle tundra]

i wonder what the community would feel if they made m+ as hard as df s1

first week

[quartz trellis]

It doesn’t need to be hard though

15+ is there for you

[subtle tundra]

brother i meant first and 2nd week

[quartz trellis]

Even then

[subtle tundra]

for gear

[quartz trellis]

Gearing is a slog as it is with crests

[subtle tundra]

gearing has NEVER been easier

has been getting easier and easier

every patch

[quartz trellis]

No need to artificially hamstring the acquisition of crests

Again, why does it need to be hard?

[subtle tundra]

cause being good at the game should be rewarded

even if just for a bit

at the start

[quartz trellis]

And it is, those that are good will gear quicker

Those that are good will get mythic raid loot

[night smelt]

Is there a command that explain how to play the bleed build?

[subtle tundra]

yeah thats why every pisser has good gear

[quartz trellis]

Except that’s just not true at the start and you know it

The elitist mind set died off a while back

You a bit behind the times

[warm vortex]

Just did this iconic priory route btw

From start to end group wise

[quartz trellis]

The good players will get ahead of the curve with Raider IO and ilvl

The “pissers” will never catch up

How is that not its own reward?

[subtle tundra]

wdym never catch up

[radiant raven]

Gearing being really good and accessible owns.

[wicked arch]

gearing is fine m+ is almost fine

think you underestimate how bad a significant portion of players are with the "modern mechanics"

[royal lantern]

dont argure with varas

he is a good guy overall, but he just thinks different about m+ overall cus he plays it on a waaaaay higher level then more or less everyone

its a clash of opinions that wont agree with eachother

[wicked arch]

it would be nice if they didn't make 2 or 3 giga-op trinkets locked to raid though

[radiant raven]

Deterministic! loot!

[royal lantern]

its funny how thats always a problem

but when the best trinket is from m+, y'all say nothing

like, assa literally doesnt even care about raid trinkets this tier

get priory+pacemaker and you are done

[radiant raven]

Ye, I think it should go both ways. Just more dinars

One a month. Buy a bracketless item. That's my tedtalk

[royal lantern]

ye, would be cool i gues

tbh, they are going kinda backwards with raids in TWW

[radiant raven]

One a month might be too quick which is fair - but you could tie it to other things.

[royal lantern]

"very rare loot" spam feels bad

[radiant raven]

Yeah

[royal lantern]

and the "raid renown" is a shity idea

[coral ibex]

that would just kill m+ farm runs

[royal lantern]

when it gates the frking raid buff lol

[quartz trellis]

I quite like it tbh

[coral ibex]

which is the exact opposite of what they want

[royal lantern]

if it would be cosmetic and QoL stuff, sure

but why is the raidbuff behind it

[radiant raven]

I like the raid renown but I absolutely think some stuff should be seperate to it.

[quartz trellis]

It’s dressing up the same thing differently

[wicked arch]

there was a skit that you could get dinar type shit this tier with raid renown levels but they scrapped that for appearance only coin

[coral ibex]

they want m+ lfg to be active for more of the season, dinars cause the complete opposite

[quartz trellis]

It all amounts to the same thing really

[coral ibex]

people stop playing and just wait for their token

[royal lantern]

just punishes my guild so hard with 2 days, it feels really shit

[radiant raven]

Has that happened this season

[ionic hill]

Can we like solo mythic raids from DF for mogs yet

[coral ibex]

no because you wont get a token for like another 2 months

[golden loom]

Just do LFR gallywix and catch up on renown

[coral ibex]

the dinars are a late season item

[radiant raven]

Did it happen in DF S4?

[royal lantern]

not really

[golden loom]

Its the same as nerubar finary

[coral ibex]

yes? have you seen the graphs?

[wicked arch]

s4 is a meme season for years now tho

[radiant raven]

Was that because of the dinar, or because it was DF S4? Like, if you wanna argue the dinar casued it, prove it.

Because I factually don't think that's at all true.

[coral ibex]

i mean you "factually" are just making shit up

[radiant raven]

Deterministic loot does not cause less engagement with these systems.

[coral ibex]

whereas i'm citing history

[coral ibex]

it literally always does

[radiant raven]

Prove it

Because we just had a season with less gear accessibility and far harder content which had REALLY bad retention. Versus seasons with far better gear accessibility (DF S2 / S3) which had really good engagement and retention.

[coral ibex]

df s2/3 gear accessibility had nothing to do with dinars

and everything to do with a very generous crest system

[royal lantern]

i mean, saying "it causes a huge drop in players!!!" when gestalt is right and we only had it 2x during the kinda short meme season at the end of a expansion, is a bit weird

[radiant raven]

What could you make with the crests

oh right

Determinisitc loot

[coral ibex]

crafting gear vs buying BIS trinkets with dinars are really not equivalent

[radiant raven]

It's still forms of deterministic loot.

[dapper cradle]

I think 0/4 upgrade tracks were much better than 0/6

[royal lantern]

the 1 thing we had that WAS in that direction was DF S2, and ye, that season was a big drop fast cus of how fast everyone geared

[radiant raven]

100%

[royal lantern]

also didnt help that DF S2 had a raid that was a bit weird in its difficulty curve + a bad M+ season

[radiant raven]

Yeah, I actually think this is a really good point. I think there's a balancing act to it. S2 TWW feels a lot better in this regard to S2 DF.

[golden loom]

Current hero track feels shitty

[coral ibex]

this season has the same gearing speed as last season and better dungeons/balance which is a bigger factor in m+ populations over time

[wicked arch]

realistically giving someone 1 guaranteed bis raid item (that you know you'll purposely design to be busted) 8~ weeks into the tier provided they are active (i.e. raid renown type shit) is not going to cause engagement drop is it

[coral ibex]

like if we really want to argue about what makes people quit m+

its when the dungeons and balance suck ass

[royal lantern]

nah lol

mate

the far far far FAAAR majority play m+ literally only for gear

[radiant raven]

It would actively cause more engagement because people would know they're getting it eventually.

[coral ibex]

brother literally nothing changed from last season to this

[royal lantern]

most people in wow do content for gear

and then stop

[coral ibex]

you still have to farm 7's for hero track infinitely

what changed to make people more engaged so far this season

because they ARE more engaged so far

better dungeons, less one shot mechs

[royal lantern]

m+ numbers drop harder when m+ is less rewarding and more difficult, cus then all the redditors cant get their mythic vault items

when m+ is more easy/more reward, it gets played more cus then they all spam their shit for easy gear

like, thats how it works overall

[coral ibex]

we're saying the same thing i think

[royal lantern]

probably

[wicked arch]

idk if i would say this season's dungeons are easier than last

[radiant raven]

It's tuned better. 10's are massively easier.

[royal lantern]

up to ~+12 it is

after that it kinda evens out

[radiant raven]

Yeah, 100%

[dapper cradle]

Grim butthole was pretty hard

[coral ibex]

https://i.redd.it/otk4cwzoqh3e1.gif

[dapper cradle]

SV could get dicey too

[radiant raven]

The typical player doesn't engage in M+ higher than 10. Or even get AotC. So a season like this, with easier content and more accessible gear, is going to keep their interest longer because they can progress further.

We saw this in DF, too.

[royal lantern]

like, m+ overall DID get more easy

there was a time when doing +10 keys in week 1/2 was a actual challenge

hell, it was dring DF S1 that way

[radiant raven]

And then, to use TWW S1 again, we saw the drop off of this.

[royal lantern]

its not even a bad thing that the weekly keys got more easy, so dont get me wrong there

[subtle kiln]

You are

[coral ibex]

i've been looking for this damn m+ participation chart for like 15 minutes now

WTF

i swear it was on wowhead

showing this season massively ahead of last

[subtle kiln]

Raider io?

[royal lantern]

oh yeha, 100%

[subtle kiln]

idk I haven’t seen one

[radiant raven]

Yeah, it is.

[royal lantern]

+10 keys are not hard, more crests

[coral ibex]

the bar graphs

[royal lantern]

= more people play it

[coral ibex]

going back to df s2/3

[radiant raven]

I think I know the one you mean

[coral ibex]

sorry they're line graphs

not bar

maybe it was on twitter

[hearty reef]

!mistakes

[radiant raven]

https://static.icy-veins.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Mchart1.png

Was it this one?

[austere basin]

should i swap my eye of Kezan for a Improvised Seaforium Pacemaker for m+ , both are hero track
my other trinket stays since its a mythic signet of the priory

[royal lantern]

eye of kezan is basically a raid only trinket

and even in raids it needs fights that go on for a while

[wicked arch]

dfs2 yep be fire/aug/sp or never get into key great season

[sonic schooner]

strongly disagree

u can have a great eye uptime in every keys but top / ws, there it s forbidden

and if u pug, dont use eye also

[royal lantern]

eh, the tank needs to pull good all the time, and if somebody dies once OR you die, it goes down the drain

[sonic schooner]

yea obv if u die it s doomed

and it s only 1 stack / 3s, so yea sure if u stay out of combat 30s it sux. But this shouldnt happen unless your tank is taking a coffee break

[coral ibex]

yea that one

[radiant raven]

It's from.. https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/news/dragonflight-vs-war-within-mythic-runs-per-week-and-player-population-comparison-charts-since-legion/

https://static.icy-veins.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/MythicChart2.png Is a pretty interesting bit of data which, I dunno: Deterministic loot and Dinars def doesn't reduce play engagement in M+ on a surface look.

But I also don't quite know what's going on with the DF S2 number or the DF S3 number lmao

[stuck knoll]

I think how easy m+ is matters a lot

I think a lot of the dungeons are less fun this season than last but they’re easier so people are more interested in taking part

[coral ibex]

yea man most people are civilians they dont watch guides or top tips for this m+ season videos

they just rip keys and if it sucks they stop

[radiant raven]

Absolutely

[dapper cradle]

“Civilians” lmao

[coral ibex]

not needing to open noteven.close or whatever it is just to push to 12's

is great

[dapper cradle]

They’re not real adventurers like me

[stuck knoll]

Ye

[dapper cradle]

[radiant raven]

I'll always point to the AotC data point in WoW to highlight how few people actually engage with end-game systems at Heroic or above. it's a fascinating little thing about WoW.

[stuck knoll]

I mean you can just play an alt and not feel like your being crushed by a hydraulic press for not knowing exactly what you’re doing

I +2’d a 10 yesterday with the highest dps doing 2.7 mil and the other 2 doing 1.7 and it was completely chill

Makes pugging way more relaxing

[radiant raven]

As a pug player who does weeklies primarily: absolutely. It's SO much better this season

Like, night and day

[subtle kiln]

It’s also way nicer to bring friends along. We ran a 10 workshop and priory with a guildie who just came back playing a 635 devastation. Zero issues just chilling and having fun with friends.

[stuck knoll]

I am also enjoying how much damage I do as a tank this season

[radiant raven]

Hell yes

[subtle kiln]

yeah if tanks are happy it goes a long way to making LFG not toxic af

our raid tanks are actually making a bit of effort to run keys this season

[warm vortex]

Fuck SV

all my homies hate SV

[subtle kiln]

SV is the true hunter spec

[stuck knoll]

You’re so wrong

[subtle kiln]

BM just wants to jump on a pogo stick while mouse wheeling their 2 abilities.

[stuck knoll]

SV was difficult but a really fun dungeon

[subtle kiln]

stop interfering with my BM hate with your dungeons.

[stuck knoll]

Mb mb

Pop off

[subtle kiln]

it’s out of my system

[sour elm]

one of our bm hunters in raid legit watches stuff on his second screen while we prog; actually jelly ngl

[subtle kiln]

I blame taxes.

[subtle kiln]

It’s a great raid leader spec

[warm vortex]

I wasn't even BM in season 1 >:(

[subtle kiln]

weren’t you rogue s1?

[spice surge]

Ye people wouldve loved SV if it was easier 1000%

[warm vortex]

ye

[subtle kiln]

I’m enjoying the dungeon pool overall. Rookery maybe least ? Idk

[stuck knoll]

It’s the peak example of how easy a dungeon is decides popularity cuz I fucking hate mists and loved SV but people aren’t going to run a challenging dungeon for weekly even if it’s more interesting

[subtle kiln]

I am so tired of Mists. The maze and the last 2 bosses

[warm vortex]

For mists i just hated the lil bastards that exploded

[spice surge]

Ye mist stinky

[chrome marlin]

Do we ever use CT in single target?

[subtle kiln]

my demise popped off on a priory pull and the tank didn’t know you could stun the explosion. I took 3 of us out. Hahah

[spice surge]

If you dont have amplifying poison specced yes

[warm vortex]

The big light elementals?
Or am i big stupid and forgetting a certain mob

[stuck knoll]

The last 2 packs

That explode

If you stun them as they are dying they don’t pop

[spice surge]

Not like "the big circle explode"

Just when they die they do aoe

[stuck knoll]

(I learned this technically today at 1 am)

[warm vortex]

The ones before the stairs?
Sorry i've been brainrotted w farming and forgotten like 99% of m+

[spice surge]

All the small mobs after you go up the big staircase

[subtle kiln]

Sorry was letting pups out. What eleem said.

[jolly vault]

specifically the undead soldiers with shields on the sides of the stairs of the last boss

[subtle tundra]

damn you guys continued the discussion without me

make +10 harder

[jolly vault]

obligatory homosexual joke I can make you harder

[radiant raven]

Actually sure but only if you can teach pug groups what the interrupt button is, and what defensives are.

[warm vortex]

h kk

Sorry

I dumb hunter

[obtuse cliff]

guys can assasination cleave goons from Mug'zee without being void elf? (something like fire mage?)

[subtle kiln]

Go back to retirement

[subtle kiln]

You can splatter if they’re close enough and you are not in prison.

[sour elm]

dang might legit finally have to unlock void elf

[royal lantern]

what

[subtle kiln]

VE always BiS.

[royal lantern]

Its a elf

the only good elf is a dead elf

[subtle kiln]

says the upright rat

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/elves-gif-24943874

[grim jay]

https://tenor.com/view/repost-if-hate-dwarves-hate-dwarves-dwarves-repost-if-repost-gif-1284158838049689112

[subtle kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/omg-excited-jumping-buddy-elf-gif-16472805545950846046

[radiant raven]

where ethereals 😦

they're cooler than elves and dwarves

[pearl dust]

hello guys how u sim assa for mythic+? 5 target 1min and 1 target 3min?

[fresh pelican]

dslice

[pearl dust]

only dslice is fine?

[subtle kiln]

Run bleed build. Use dslice to help with gearing options.

None of the options are perfect.

[royal lantern]

need AI art

[pearl dust]

this is bleed build?

[subtle kiln]

No

Goto wowhead. Look at bleed build.

Hint. There’s no KB

[vast shuttle]

whats best apex perforator or the heroic raid dagger? u get from rik

[subtle kiln]

offhand just a stat stick. Sim it but it doesn’t matter

[fresh pelican]

highest ilvl, other than that depends on what the sim tells you

[golden loom]

all that matters is ilvl for dagger, secondary stats on them are so minimal either way

[nova shadow]

man I just tested bleed build in a fg 7 and st is horrific

[golden loom]

and OH is even more useless

[nova shadow]

and aoe gains are none maybe I dont play it right or idk

[pearl dust]

is worth no KB? how much is st loss?

[timber meadow]

obv its super subjective but the dungeons are def way more fun this season for me. floodgate is so good

[spice surge]

None, bleed build does more ST than the hybrid one

[stuck knoll]

I like floodgate but

[fresh pelican]

not much, KB is poop

[stuck knoll]

Theatre Priory DFC

Just suck ass

[nova shadow]

🧢

[timber meadow]

priory/dfc are really fun

imo

[radiant raven]

I like DFC a lot but I've not done it above a 10, so maybe my opinion will radically change.

[timber meadow]

both dungeons you just get to pull huge and there's not a ton of really annoying mobs to deal with which helps

[stuck knoll]

Idk priory feels really limited in how you pull

[pearl dust]

and what is stat % for the bleed build? 30% crit 7%haste and 70% mastery is fine? or i need more haste?

[spice surge]

Priory has tons of annoying mobs

[spice surge]

Doesnt matter

[stuck knoll]

Because there’s a lot of shit which will fuck your day up if multiple go off

[radiant raven]

The sharpshooters in priory are extremely annoying.

[fresh pelican]

where's the workshop hate ?

[timber meadow]

oh lol ig thats true

[stuck knoll]

Sharpshooters make things hard to stack eles paladins

[spice spire]

Top goated

[stuck knoll]

Your top maybe

[spice spire]

I will not take questions at this time

[spice surge]

I dont love dfc but its fine

[timber meadow]

eh wtvr idk i really like the dungeons this seeasons

[nova shadow]

dfc is freebie

[timber meadow]

im having by far the most fun ive had in M+ in a long time

[radiant raven]

I like ToP because, as Sub, the first boss is really fun.

[spice spire]

Also first part of dfc makes it dogshit

[nova shadow]

but cinder is a horror

[spice surge]

Half of rookery is fine, the other half is horrid

[stuck knoll]

That’s fair I’m just preaching my own opinion anyway if you disagree it’s all g

[spice spire]

Yeah trash is fine bosses gabagool

[stuck knoll]

2nd boss is awful

[radiant raven]

Cinder is really fun in pugs because you get to play the "How will chewie kill this group"

[nova shadow]

especially if you die before the 2nd boss and you are aggro bugged

[timber meadow]

yeah def agree on this - were just talking about whether we like dungeons or not - there's no right answer

[spice surge]

2nd boss and the suck lads before 2nd boss

[radiant raven]

p r e a c h. Hate that boss.

[spice surge]

Really awful, rest of the dungeon is pretty decent

[stuck knoll]

Yeah that’s pretty much my thoughts

[radiant raven]

Prior to the season I thought Rookery would be one of the easiest dungeons. But I absolutely hate it now. It's unfun to me.

[nova shadow]

Idk bout the chewie but the double hogs pack into ninja pulling have seen more wipes than gallywix himself imo 😄

[stuck knoll]

My favourite is someone last second dashing with the giant circle

So it just pings the whole group

I had a dh bomba my group last time I was there

[radiant raven]

lmao, truth

[spice surge]

The worst part about those suck lads is that they stand still and cast inside the big circle

[timber meadow]

cinder is one of the tougher dungeons for sure, but i dont thinjk ive had a single group have issues with chewie outside experimenting with pulls but that's more an issue with how many muscles you pull with him

[spice surge]

If they could easily be moved and/or the big circle cast didnt overlap it would be way better

[nova shadow]

Guys if you've watched zerocoolx he has this count on his wa that counts how many mobs from the pulled packed are either garroted or ruptured does anyone know how can I do that

[stuck knoll]

The fact they deny space and do so much damage combined with a huge area targetted ability that bounces to other people

It just makes them feel so unpullable except they are basically unskippable because of how the dungeon is designed

[wanton spear]

@nova shadow on wago its a WA called bleed tracker i think, its amazing

[timber meadow]

yeah rookery is prob my least favorite dungeon out of all of them at this point

[nova shadow]

what it is actually really simming 20k higher than the hybrid one, for a 3min boss fight. I guess I must be doing smth wrong

[timber meadow]

last boss is prety aweful

i think 2nd boss is fine tbh, rough as melee just cause you lose so much uptime but nowhere near as boring as last boss

i could see it being bad though if you play with people that dont understand how it works, prob aids tbh

[timber meadow]

bleed sims equal or sometimes a tad lower for me but yeah the claim is that bleed does more st

[nova shadow]

I find it hard believing it, I hardly passed 1.2m on 3rd and 4th boss on fg7

and I'm pretty sure in hybrid I'd be like 1.7

[spice spire]

There have been gains found

[timber meadow]

hm aight ill resim

[spice surge]

I dont think whispyr has pushed it yet

[fleet pagoda]

what was the tech?

[spice surge]

Like the sim was not very well equiped to handle non-KB things since the rotation has revolved around it pretty much since the 10.2 rework

[spice surge]

Not much, just making it not be dumb

[fleet pagoda]

oh okay heard

[spice spire]

He hasn’t there’s a lot still getting ironed out

At least that’s what he told me at 4 am before I passed tf out again

[spice surge]

Ye ik im ironing brother

[quasi ember]

does someone test bleed build in 14-15 keys? How is it?

[spice spire]

Whispyr has ran it and it does dam

[timber meadow]

well the claims were that it already simmed higher (or maybe they were just feel crafting that it should have more st)

ive just never had a sim of my character have bleed ahead by a non trivial amount

[spice spire]

It did for a lot of profiles

It does for mine by like 1.5ish?

But I’ve an unholy amount of haste (like 11k)

[spice surge]

the main point is that dropping KB doesnt instantly grief your ST dps

Because KB is just an envenom that doesnt cost combo points nowadays

[fleet pagoda]

passive income envenom

[timber meadow]

bro if you have 11k haste, you're inting your aoe for st with that build prob

thats an absurd amount of haste

[spice spire]

No?

[spice surge]

Haste is fine on aoe for bleed

[coral ibex]

why would that be

[timber meadow]

haste just seems like a dead stat

[coral ibex]

haste is good for bleed

[spice surge]

Why it makes your bleeds go brrr

[timber meadow]

hm aight - can i see a sim of your char in dslice?

[spice spire]

It’s also a matter of; I’m not indexing crazy into crit because of signet and mythic pacemaker ; and I have like 26k mastery. So the sim wants crit/haste atm

Yeah sure hopefully I’m not in raid build

[spice surge]

Like ye if all of your damage is envenom, then haste is just extra energy, which means its useless on aoe

[halcyon grail]

MAX CORRUPTION. STACKING HASTE. LETS GO.

[scarlet orbit]

Did in 14s ant it was not feeling different then hybrid its a bit of a weird feeling pressing ct on singletarget but after you got that in its pretty fun and does good damage

[spice surge]

When bleeds do your damage, haste is more energy AND more damage

[halcyon grail]

WHAT EVEN ARE GHOSTS?!

[spice surge]

The stat amps arent returning in .5

[halcyon grail]

(little BFA Nyalotha humor.)

[spice surge]

Its just all the damage procs, but theyre incredibly watered down and suck ass

[timber meadow]

i mean energy in aoe is liegit pointless it feels

well energy from haste*

[spice surge]

Thats what i said

[fallow canopy]

C O N T E N T

[manic pebble]

anyone has WA that tell you it's safe or not to stand near the box at dog boss from workshop?

[spice spire]

Bleeds tick faster though

[timber meadow]

yeah, I hear yall on that

im curious if sims actually want yout o take haste

[stuck knoll]

They’re why you have cloak and cheat

[spice spire]

In ST they do, aoe it craves a bit more crit

[stuck knoll]

Most dungeon packs will have 1

[spice spire]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/js4jueJNthrT3rn2a5VWZC

[halcyon grail]

I'ma crip poison his ass and stay on boss.

Fuggoff, ghosts.

[spice spire]

In raid build it gets rid of all of that and says crit + mastery again bbgirl back to the mines

[golden loom]

im at 15% haste in raid 😎

[timber meadow]

can you do a top gear?

[spice spire]

I cannot, not at my computer unfortunately

[spice surge]

Think bigwigs has a thing on nameplates

[spice spire]

I can pseudo it with the cleave build

[timber meadow]

i assume something is scuffed with this sim?

that seems wildly low for your ilvl

[quasi ember]

does anyone have a table for calculating extra ticks?

[spice surge]

Wdym

Theres no table

If you have 10% haste they tick 10% faster

The duration stays the same, and if theres any "leftover ticks" at the end (like a 47% of a tick) it will do that damage as the last tick

[timber meadow]

like this is my dslice comparing both builds https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tbUMh2VcRGH9gJ4zWhfDXx

bleed is like 1.7% behind

[quasi ember]

i understand, thx

[timber meadow]

like your dslice sim is almost 1 mil behind, ill jut assume its scuffed cuase of quicksim

[spice surge]

He is simming without all raid buffs

[fleet pagoda]

he doesnt have buffs on

[timber meadow]

so just food/flask?

and skyfury

and mark? it looks like

[coral ibex]

prob just food flask and lust

[coral ibex]

but yea match any buffs he picked

[golden loom]

No lust either in that

[coral ibex]

guess hes going with his actual group

skyfury and no lust is wild

[golden loom]

cooked

[spice spire]

Forgor the lust

[vast shuttle]

can anyone send good raid build

[spice spire]

Opp

[golden loom]

he forgor

[fleet pagoda]

lust is a crutch. just need a full belly

[timber meadow]

okay that makes way more sense now

i was like what the huh

lol

[spice surge]

Again the sim is doing dumb shit, whispyr should be pushing the update for it soon to make it handle bleed better.
But also sudden demise pops are not accounted for in sims (as its impossible to model accurately)

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9xnbx2kXbeW2DsCKY2PvPN
Here is your character with the updated thing

oh wait it still has disabled consumables

oh well whatever, the point is that its pretty much the same

[hardy dagger]

Even in 15s demise is doing substantial damage

[timber meadow]

okay so only slightly behind

can you do a st sim? i imagine its ahead now

[nova shadow]

Finally found it, if anyone also wants this count for rupture/garrote wa in the file

[coral ibex]

bleed sims 300k higher in dslice and 24k lower in ST with the currently available sims

for me

[quasi ember]

yeah, zeros ui

[coral ibex]

wait no

bleed is 24k ahead in ST too

based

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pF9XQvYwY6G86CRC2CpR32
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jFmm53QqSaR86KV51fe7rb
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cd7D62nyHBg8L5QSQFeEvm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/k9dpKsBVBa8vMTh1sVorXe

[nova shadow]

Yeh it took me some time to extract only the x/x cuz am not wa speacialist and wanted to keep my original wa

[coral ibex]

W

[nova shadow]

on paper its ahead but in practice its far behind at least from my tests

[coral ibex]

seems about right for me

i also have relatively high haste

[timber meadow]

yeah I could see all these profiles with high haste performing better with bleed than hybrid

if bleed benefits from haste

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pvKrjtUCHXrUgTJuW3ofNw yeah so i disabled all that jazz and your dslice is sstill wayy behind - im not convinced haste is good - other than making bleed build look better in comparison to hybrid

[nova shadow]

also it seems to be running dry on energy much faster

on st

[royal lantern]

what tests

[royal lantern]

thats also not true lol

[golden loom]

bleed is better on energy than hybrid?

[nova shadow]

mythic + dungeon ;D

[golden loom]

u have blindside

[royal lantern]

running 3 dungeons is not "my tests" lol

[nova shadow]

not 3 only 1 fg 7

[coral ibex]

damn you already got socketed pieces

[pliant remnant]

Silence, theorycrafters

A feelycrafter is talking

[coral ibex]

im a no socket andy atm

[timber meadow]

i mean this is just dumb. you shouldn't ever be remotely dry on energy in M+ ever with any of the builds (outside like bosses on hybrid where you go dry a lot)

[nova shadow]

I was talking for St not for aoe

[spice spire]

Oh

That’s perma

Lock that feeling in

[timber meadow]

oh yeah it'll feel dry af on hybrid

oh bleed i dont feel that dry though

[spice spire]

The difference in st on raid and m+ is pretty significant

[nova shadow]

I mean multilates are generating much less combo points at least thats what it felt like

[golden loom]

again, bleed litearlly has more energy resources in ST than hybrid

fuck it just send raid build in M+ idc

[royal lantern]

what

why should they

mut CP gen doesnt change lol

[coral ibex]

now THIS is feelscraft

literally nothing changes about mutilate cp generation between the builds

[royal lantern]

again, if anything you get MORE cp on boss fights with bleed build cus you play blindside, and blindside means free ambush sometimes

[coral ibex]

blindside procs are so sick

[timber meadow]

@spice surge your the sim experrt - can you take my pchar and give me gains by implementing more haste? all I'm gathering is that in high haste profiles bleed looks better in comparison to hybrid (which makes sense) but I don't see evidence that haste is actually good outside that... like the high haste profile that was linked aerlier is like 400k lower dslice once I disabled all the buffs in mine

[spice spire]

My stats are a little cooked tho ngl

[timber meadow]

yeah bro

you have ELEVEN THOUSAND

haste

[golden loom]

same

[timber meadow]

that was the genesis of this whole thing xD

[spice spire]

Honestly

The worst part isn’t even that

It’s the 5k crit

[timber meadow]

i was like "yeah thats cooked" and then i got yelled at cause "haste good for bleed" lul

[spice spire]

Haste is good for bleed

I mean objectively

[timber meadow]

and then i link sims to the people who only deal in sims and eleem goes ghost

[nova shadow]

wait with bleed are you supposed to crimson on one target

[golden loom]

ye

[coral ibex]

CT uptime > envenom uptime

in bleed build

[nova shadow]

ohhh

it was performing lower for me

cuz i was no crimsoning in st

[spice spire]

Eleem does other things

Also

I lied to you

It’s not 11k haste

It’s 14k

[vast shuttle]

anyone who has good raid build?

[spice spire]

CMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMjZmhxM8ADAAAAAAzCsMDAAAAAAttNzMMzMGzMzysNzMjZwwMzMmZzyYGgNzyADYBsMMBGWA

[golden loom]

play this on every fight except lockenstock

[coral ibex]

95% uptime for CT in ST vs 64% uptime for envenom

[zenith elm]

!thistletea

[coral ibex]

in my sims

[zenith elm]

whats the macro for thistle tea?

[golden loom]

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Assassination uses no other macro aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

[zenith elm]

You're the goat

[spice surge]

Envenom uptime is irrelevant really for bleed

Just keep your bleeds up, use envenom on DN and if you have any excessive cp use it on envenom

[timber meadow]

yo eleem can you get me gains bygiving my char haste cause its good ?

[spice surge]

[timber meadow]

all i see are low simming high haste profiles with big bleed vs. hybrid gaps

[nova shadow]

so in bleed in big 10 + adds pulls do we like dot everything and just shiv or hows the gameplay

[barren yarrow]

Normally you proc ID out of stealth and spread them, then go into your CDs. I normally Mut and Env the big health add.

if I do a +12 or higher I death mark and trinket

[indigo sphinx]

2x shiv in DM, other than that when CT is up you are cooking. But you don't need to have envenom up for DM so you end up shivving very early into the pack anyway. And yeah if no DM, just send it when bleeds are up

[barren yarrow]

CT hits different, it’s nuts.

[spice spire]

Buffed btw

[timber meadow]

im running a sim now, i legit just think that haste is worse than mastery for bleed dmg but im open to being wrong, i just need evidence

[indigo sphinx]

It really is thinking mans spec yk. Press CT and shiv, crack open a cold one, put your feet up, refresh CT, clean your glasses, top DPS

[barren yarrow]

do it this why this place exists @timber meadow

[spice spire]

I’ve a metric brick of mastery (though I lost some so it’s not necessarily)

[nova shadow]

okay so the rotation would be like this. Stealth - garrote - garrote - rupture - rupture - amubush - garrote - like a fan - crimson , than you DM shiv , offensive vanish, you and start slapping envenoms

[spice spire]

But cropping 71% mastery my sim did not want it

Which was like 25ishk?

Thing is you still want mastery

Crit is just less important. Also signet nonsense

[timber meadow]

i have so much mastery its shitting out my pours - 22k baseline with HOC

[west crown]

ambush first, having mark uptime is #1 priority. Offensive vanish only if you are running MA. everything else is basically correct but the order can depend on combo points

[barren yarrow]

Above 70%?

[nova shadow]

Oh okay I only ambush first on bosses, but on packs I do later ambush to skip multilate and start envenoming the spatter target on the hybrid gameplay

[timber meadow]

67.5% unbuffed

[west crown]

no, get mark up

[timber meadow]

86% with hoc up xD

[barren yarrow]

Wow

[timber meadow]

yeah i could see dropping some being good, im tryna see now but i also could see it not wanting me to drop any iono

[barren yarrow]

So in your sim what did you find?

I’m curious because RB told me to take all haste verse gems

[humble thunder]

!kingsbaneparry

[timber meadow]

iono its still running - im also not a sim sevant

[spice spire]

I mean like I said I’m at too much haste, except for bleed st at this time so like I have some juggling to do, but stats aren’t like a GIGA diff

In the end

[nova shadow]

Okay but is there a reason to prior the mark isnt going into envenoms window 1 sec faster more rewarding dps wise ?

[barren yarrow]

lol me either

[timber meadow]

was hoping eleem would help tbh LOL im prob not gonna find shit

[barren yarrow]

post it when your done. I’m leaving work now.

[west crown]

mark is 25% of your damage, you are basically losing out on like 5 damage talents if you aren't using it

including one called singular focus

[subtle kiln]

all the haste enjoyers can look at PI values. It's decent in ST and garbage in AOE with the bleed build

[timber meadow]

thank you

[subtle kiln]

there's your 20% haste boost which does fuck all in AOE

[timber meadow]

i was getting shit on by eleem cause some dude said he had 11k haste and i was like "well your inting your aoe for some st gains" and then everyone turned on me lmao

[subtle kiln]

your gains are shit in ST

I aint championing that cuase

[timber meadow]

and then all the sims i see with high haste profiles are really low

[coral ibex]

define "really low"

[timber meadow]

like 400k below mine which is a high mastery profile

[coral ibex]

?

brother i'm 12k behind in this sim

[subtle kiln]

throw ilvl on and dont give a fuck. i'm running mostly vers/mast gear kekw

[coral ibex]

and my trinkets could be a lot better

junkmaestro is useless in aoe

[timber meadow]

idk what you're referring to

[coral ibex]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7b6bZqbNBpbXgME734J4tH

i have 9k haste

[timber meadow]

well yeah you're comparing to my sim wherei turned off all buffs to match the other guy

[subtle kiln]

people still not understanding sim comparisons is great

[timber meadow]

i just was fighting against being told im wrong that haste is bad in aoe

[coral ibex]

im resimming with your setup hold your horses

sheesh

[golden loom]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3tsFqhh9pV8hpJkVu8RRQq 11k sim owned

[timber meadow]

what's this for?

you turned on a buncha buffs

[golden loom]

yeah I just wanted to own nooj

[subtle kiln]

all you running with shaman and not running sub kekw

[west crown]

sin > sub

( i enjoy both )

[subtle kiln]

sub not enjoyable without skyfury

we dont have a shaman, so assa more pleasant

[timber meadow]

running isub in low keys where everything dies instantly and then you dont have cds for next pull is actaully just aweful

[subtle kiln]

yea

we time our weeklys faster with me on assa

time is money friends

[timber meadow]

if you have cds for every pull i could see sub feeling real nice

[subtle kiln]

the week it's the cdr affix is amazing

using pvp trinket

[golden loom]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nhthxAGsrXLGVKtkcHT4ix heres with only tempered pot, whetstones and rank 2 mastery pot

like I normally use

[subtle kiln]

where's wax setup?

[timber meadow]

lmao

[golden loom]

I am not pickpocketing kobolds!

whetstones are so cheap now anyways

[subtle kiln]

mana oil still bonkers

but i'm not wasting conc on crafting those

[coral ibex]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6LKVCPLYPDQKquftqf8Vkv this is my usual setup as i generally run keys with my disc and fury buddies

[golden loom]

cheater!

[coral ibex]

[subtle kiln]

sim padder

way to win discord

[coral ibex]

if i wanted to pad i'd pad

smh

[subtle kiln]

i'm just a simple rogue. what gearing works best across the board.

[timber meadow]

aight ill resim with your buffs, i imagine ill be a decent amount higher

[golden loom]

btw when did priest or warrior get lust ?????'

[coral ibex]

pugging a mage

[subtle kiln]

drums

needs a sim option

[coral ibex]

i would literally never go into a dungeon without a luster of some kind sorry lol

i'll take the extra 8 seconds to wait for a mage to apply

[subtle kiln]

it's fine for weekly

[royal lantern]

jokes on you, im always horny

[golden loom]

I applied to a party with prot pal, 2x ret pal and disc and got declined!!

[subtle kiln]

too much melee

[coral ibex]

needs a 3th ret sorry

[subtle kiln]

can you be range rogue?

[golden loom]

poisoned knife time to shine

[royal lantern]

bro, rogue needs a 3rd spec first

[subtle kiln]

agreed

[spice surge]

No its really good in ST and decent in aoe

Its like +6% in ST and like +4% in aoe

[subtle kiln]

prot warrior above it in AOE kek

[spice surge]

No

[subtle kiln]

yes

[timber meadow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5yv6vsQeWrXWgNzAZH114G yeah so about 2.4% behind with a high haste profile

[spice surge]

Ye sure with the raid ST setup

[subtle kiln]

even in key setup

[spice surge]

But its genuinely good for bleed

[halcyon grail]

Pro gamer move; just run floodgate. You get like 100+ wax every run.

[subtle kiln]

good, not great

others get way more out of it

[timber meadow]

haste in a vaacumm like PI is different than gearing for haste where you have to sacrifice other stats. stacking 11k haste is to the point where youre actively losing a ton of other stats. I don't think you'll ever find a high haste profile that outperforms a high mastery profile with bleed build

[subtle kiln]

i also love the new PI target addon going around

[spice surge]

I wouldnt classify 2nd best behind deva as "good"

But ok

[golden loom]

I mean also, its not like I am stacking haste just cause of haste

I am just equpping highest simming/ilvl pieces

and my stats are what they are

[timber meadow]

yeah im not like upset at you for doing it lol - i just made the comment that stacking that much haste is int'ing your aoe and then everyone was like "why"

and since then ive been trying to prove my point

that is all

[strange sleet]

also is not only about relative DPS no? Maybe prot is ahead in that sense, but 6% of 12-15 million is more than 10% of 6 million

[subtle kiln]

what are you looking at for this?

[spice surge]

Comparing the sim i did to bloodmallet

[subtle kiln]

so it magically jumps to 160k ?

from middle

[spice surge]

Yes

[spice spire]

Yes

[subtle kiln]

sweet

[spice spire]

Like

[spice surge]

Haste for raid build is only energy

Haste for bleed is energy and damage

[cerulean burrow]

im confused with this part of the single target priority that it states on wowhead..... whenevr i get to my second kingsbane you know the next one that comes up after the opener... i only always have 1 charge of shiv.... so do i hold shiv for that second kingsbane and save it for the next one then ? im confsed

[timber meadow]

its still just less dmg than mastery tho lol

[spice spire]

This is the line without dry shiving

[nimble vector]

hold it for the last 8s of KB

[subtle kiln]

but does it feel better

[cerulean burrow]

you mean the 1 charge i have at that point ?

[nimble vector]

yes

[subtle kiln]

this feels like a tea for sub discussion

[timber meadow]

prob not tbh, barely feel haste on assa

[spice surge]

Well all items have 2 stats

So you can still have the mastery

[bright tartan]

Haste is on top in my stat weights for dslice

[cerulean burrow]

dry shiving ? also the line ? what do you mean

[subtle kiln]

oh lord. stat weighted dslice

[timber meadow]

lets go back to 2020 and use stat weights to win the argument

[nimble vector]

Dry shiv is the shiv you send with the Darkest Night after deathmark

[fleet pagoda]

also the reference point of 11k was Quake's, and he said he had like 26k mastery too. I don't understand why these are being thought of exclusively

[subtle kiln]

[bright tartan]

Sim also prefs haste gems

[spice spire]

I’m actually a filthy liar

20k and 14k

[timber meadow]

yeah thats fair - so you think haste is better than crit ?

[spice spire]

No