assassination

[nova kelp]

Oddly... The stealth spec needs stealth the least.

[soft surge]

theyre going to have a rework soon and that vanish shit in their rotation is going out the window

[strange python]

Okay thanks for letting me know your crazy intel

Do you sleep well?

[nova kelp]

Most outlaw players sleep well. They're tired

[soft surge]

man has deathstalkers mark in title

lel

[fallow canopy]

after the holiday incident I know better than to engage in this but god is testing me

[sudden brook]

NERF OUTLAW

[balmy condor]

[nova kelp]

Unironically... I think that's the first time I've ever seen guy call for a nerf

You've changed.

Old guy would be in the law channel right now. Reviewing logs yelling at someone for using an extra ambush or an errant piss-tol shot. All the while screaming about outlaw supremacy

[soft surge]

i wanna be an outlaw so bad

[nova kelp]

Do you ride on a steel horse?

[soft surge]

can daggers be crafted to swords

[coral ibex]

outlaw should be able to use daggers main hand

[low thicket]

tape them together

to make one sword

[soft surge]

either of those two ideas good

[thorn thorn]

[thorn thorn]

I wish I could enjoy outlaw but I found it too hard

If I cant play wilds while in raid then whats the point

[soft surge]

if only the dh discordf would unban me id play dh

[nova kelp]

Hr 175 baby

Lessagoooooo

[fallow canopy]

[nova kelp]

Me and my long long loooooooooonnnnnnnnggggg

Sword

[thorn thorn]

I am curious how you got banned

If I know anything about the fel hammer im gonna guess its because of some silly shit

[fallow canopy]

I can see it ngl

[coral ibex]

bet they have a stricter policy for tolerating bait

[royal pier]

Could someone review my newbie assa log?

[soft surge]

they were highlighted when some wowhead posted some shit about toxic class discords or something

[nova kelp]

They're very edgy and serious about hunting demons

[soft surge]

so they become strict with rules

[thorn thorn]

Cuz I had a friend get banned for @ing mods about scam messages in chat. Citing zero tolerance policy for pinging mods

[thorn thorn]

Wonder why

[soft surge]

this was like end of bfa era

[thorn thorn]

Probably because of all the class discords the dh discord has historically always been the most degenerate and least helpful one

[strange python]

It’s the cooler icon so what bro

Man has one bad take after the other bit the icon is the issue

[thorn thorn]

When I did play dh in there I tried several times to get support there and came out empty handed

[rancid wind]

What is the reason to use Evasion on Sprocketmonger? seeing people in Lorrgs use it

[balmy condor]

20% magic dr

[rancid wind]

bait and switch?

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[rancid wind]

kk

i'll make sure to add that to my defensive plan

[haughty flicker]

HELP ME

[thorn thorn]

A fallen soldier

[strange python]

Are you 3 tanking and 4 healing rik?

That sounds ruff

[haughty flicker]

idk why we swapped to this

we did like 3 tries 3 tank 3 heals then stopped

and we made our ww swap to brew

[balmy condor]

You made your…

Windwalker…. Swap

[haughty flicker]

please

dont

remind

me

im fighting for my fucking life here

[fallow canopy]

wasn't the 3 tank strat dead the moment they changed how the soak stacks worked?

[keen spruce]

[haughty flicker]

i just work here man

at least i can type mid pull

playing sub

[prisma shadow]

So on Stix a ton of sin rogues seem to wait 40 seconds skipping lust before their first cds

https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-assassination/stix-bunkjunker

Which is super interesting whats the reason behind that just better line ups

[calm hollow]

dumb quesion but just how far behind in kes is fb?

[balmy condor]

22%

[calm hollow]

ohhhh nooo

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[gritty laurel]

no big flippin this patch

[balmy condor]

Fatebound is an incredible experience in m+

The more targets you have, the worse it gets

It’s impressively bad

[runic hinge]

Wish they would make it better

I am tired of the mark atm

[balmy condor]

It would need like half its talents reworked

[runic hinge]

Would be nice for them to make it competitive

[fallow canopy]

just wanna hear some kachings from time to time

[balmy condor]

The fact that it’s even remotely close in single target is astounding

[runic hinge]

Surely rogue hero talent rework in .5 patch

[drifting cloud]

I still dont even know what fb does

think I saw whispyr play it on kyveza a few times

thats about it

[balmy condor]

Fatebound in single target is the same energy as walking past an out of order elevator and then seeing a guy in a wheelchair on the 6th floor

Like how the fuck did you get there

[balmy condor]

No one knows

Fatebound literally doesn’t have anything going on

You macro cold blood and then ignore everything that’s happening

And then it either does damage or it doesn’t

[earnest flume]

maybe they are holding for trash balls and those parses are where they got the ball so had to pop cds afterwards?

[teal elk]

i mean it is neat to push mutilate and have it mean something now

[balmy condor]

It is, vicious venoms is very based

Big fan

[runic hinge]

No actually you don’t press fan

[tidal laurel]

hey whispyr. sorry to bother you. but im wondering on your wa. why is clear the witnesses not active if VV is talented? the buff still activates during the mark does it not?

[spice surge]

The buff still activates yes

But you shouldnt use it on ST

So he just doesnt show it

[tidal laurel]

ahh ok

[dapper cradle]

apologizes for mentioning whisp in his post

im thinking based

[tidal laurel]

i thought it was always used even during ST rotations

[coral ibex]

it should also show up with lingering darkness tho

[fleet pagoda]

i hope the next patch has a Mt. Doom for us to discard these rings in

[coral ibex]

with VV it is neutral during lingering darkness

[gritty laurel]

it was until VV came back into the picture

[fleet pagoda]

i desire sending it to oblivion

[gritty laurel]

now we send chonky mutilates

[tidal laurel]

got it. thanks peeps!

if i had not died on the heroic sprocket kill tonight, i may have had a good log for once lol but i have been doing well these runs thanks to this community

[runic hinge]

You’re welcome

[haughty flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/lizard-dance-dancing-lizard-end-my-suffering-gif-26435006

im not a fan of richard

[lavish whale]

thank you weekly chest

[cloud basin]

parsed a 27 on Stix, but atleast i swapped to crabs right :)?

[fleet pagoda]

boss died, W

[balmy condor]

debating if I wanna go through the hassle of all of that

cause like if I'm gonna tweak the clear the witnesses WA

I'm not gonna half-ass it

and that means adding logic for # of nearby targets

[coral ibex]

seems to work fine by just adding the lingering trigger

[balmy condor]

and adding that to the condition check

[coral ibex]

oh i see

isn't it always neutral with 1 target in LD tho?

so any more targets its a gain right

[balmy condor]

yeah but you would want to clear the witnesses at all times on 2 targets

like the full fok logic atm is use as generator on 3 baseline, -1 with mod+tp, +1 with vicious, +1 with blindside

[haughty flicker]

fok the most complex part of our kit

[balmy condor]

if ctw is up, it's use on 2 baseline, -1 if lingering or not vv

if darkest night and 6cp, use if not vicious venoms or 2 targets

so like practical example in raids

you're not talented into CT, so the fok logic would be, generator on 5, ctw on 2, darkest night on 2

with a bleed build in m+ it would be generator on 3, ctw on 1, darkest night on 1

with a hybrid build in m+ it would be generator on 2, ctw on 1, darkest night on 1

so like yeah I can update the weakaura to just show ctw during lingering

that's a good bandaid fix I guess

but it's still pretty aids

[cloud basin]

if yall need a laugh, i got asked why im not swapping to the reel assistants on Bandit cuz the damage i dealt to them is way lower compared to the boss lol. I was swapping and actually using mutilate and envenom on them after i dotted the 2 to kill lol

[balmy condor]

this was all I needed

[cloud basin]

atleast i wasnt asked why im not putting my Mark on an assistant lol

[hidden bay]

Blocked forever

[balmy condor]

asking the worst target swapping spec in the game to target swap

a tale as old as time

[cloud basin]

if only fatebound wasnt cheeks, maybe it would be slightly easier to swap lol

[hidden bay]

Na

Just wrong spec if they want you to swap targets

Well sub is bad aswell more or less if they don’t have find weakness on em

Or boss gets dragged bad bla bla

[cloud basin]

yeah and i only know how to play assassin for rogue lol

[balmy condor]

fatebound would take us from the worst target swapping spec in the game to arguably the worst target swapping spec in the game

[cloud basin]

maybe fatebound will get completely changed like other hero specs did lol

[sacred schooner]

could be easily fixed with old skill to transfer everything to new target

it was before, but then its gone

[drifting cloud]

that only happens on classes that have actual playerbases

[cloud basin]

shhhh, i can dream and live in the delulu lol

[runic hinge]

That’s it I’m swapping to feral Druid!

[spice spire]

Okay spriest main

[dapper halo]

🐱

[ember mural]

[dapper halo]

if you switch to cat rouge

then you also have to watch anime

[cloud basin]

im not allowed to play feral

[dapper halo]

not without watching degen anime no

so this is your good excuse to watch oreimo or eromanga sensei

[runic hinge]

I feel like I suck at spriest and casters in general

[nova kelp]

Bro. I wish rogue had more than 16 people playing it. If I mention that sin has bad target switching I get met with "actually shadow has a hard time target switching"
"Yeah I have a hard time on warlock"

[cloud basin]

just play BM hunter

[runic hinge]

I have xp!

[nova kelp]

Fuck... Both of you make me think I should consider touching grass...

[dapper halo]

dont just touch grass

roll in it

[runic hinge]

That’s my Druid I don’t play much anymore lol

[autumn frost]

Do you guys swap to the goons in mug'zee?

[dapper halo]

remember to check for ticks later

[autumn frost]

I'm getting a lot of crap from guildies for not doing so

[dapper halo]

nope, i just tunnel vision the boss

[autumn frost]

and cleaving it

[spice spire]

Same king

[autumn frost]

but I feel like I do less damage to the ads if I go in

[nova kelp]

We don't switch. If someone wants us to damage adds you bring our target near them. Otherwise stfu.

[spice spire]

In reality it’s everything not rogue

[autumn frost]

lol that's what I thought

[neat flame]

Can you tell my raid leader

[nova kelp]

Switching to an add will do less damage than your cleave does. And if it doesn't then that add is probably living way way too long

[autumn frost]

That's how I feel too.

[runic hinge]

That’s why I play kitty rogue

[nova kelp]

That's not a feeling

That's a factual reality

On mugs. You stay out of the gaols. You rail on mugy and let the spatter hit BOTH gaol adds

This is better for everyone

[amber brook]

Only works if the pugs put him inbetween

[nova kelp]

Ew. You said the p word

But fair point

[amber brook]

Sorry ill do better

[cloud basin]

Yeah i get told to go in rock prisons sadly..

[amber brook]

The wastelands

[nova kelp]

Who tells you to do the gaols?

It's such a colossal waste for a sin rogue to go in

[cloud basin]

My guild, because they know nothing of rogue

[nova kelp]

Teach them.

Hold them to ransom

[cloud basin]

Oh i tried

[nova kelp]

Get toxic

Send them here

[brazen sphinx]

What interface addon y'all use?

[nova kelp]

Don't get toxic

[brazen sphinx]

I tried elvui and didn't like it

[nova kelp]

But like

Yknow

[cloud basin]

They'll just say that yall aren't raid leadership and you should always listen to raid leadership lol

[amber brook]

Dictatorship right there

[nova kelp]

Pack your atrophic poison

[fleet pagoda]

i ended up having to do gaols too. my guild didn't like putting mugzee in between them; so caustic wasn't tagging them. tagged tf out of him while inside the gaol though

[nova kelp]

There's not enough rogue mains to treat rogues poorly

[fleet pagoda]

at least with the vv build it's nothing to vanish to slap the mark on the goons

well it's a loss

but not as much

[nova kelp]

That's like putting a piece of tinsel on a shit and being like "ooh a silver lining"

But.
It is A silver lining I guess lol

[fleet pagoda]

i have to adjust to their strat. not ideal, but whatever

[nova kelp]

Fair

Better than nothing

[fleet pagoda]

if we get there on mythic it'll be a new conversation i'd imagine

[brazen sphinx]

How much did y'all customize luxthor WA? Do you use it straight out of the box as is?

[nova kelp]

Most will adjust their was at high end

[cloud basin]

I straight up said that if I gotta swap then something isn't happening like it should and they didn't like that

[nova kelp]

How much is on the person

It's actually super bad going in. Since it will also cut your opening burst window

[fleet pagoda]

yeah

[nova kelp]

So I guess you just send a naked kb off the rip

And then wait till after the gaol

And then PRAY you don't get frost targetted lol

[brazen sphinx]

Trying to figure out how to hide these bits and failing to figure it out:

[fleet pagoda]

feels not great holding for after gaols, reminds me i need to look and see if it's worth playing seaforium if it'll be off kilter with my cd's all fight

[nova kelp]

Sir
Your mog

[brazen sphinx]

lol, I just posted the front view in mog channel

[nova kelp]

Let's focus on the important things

Fortunately for me. My guild trusts I just know what's best for my particular class. That and/or they don't want the yap session on WHY I say the thing.

[fleet pagoda]

you mean "hide" as in permanently? or to load in certain conditions?

[hollow river]

Sometimes in those situations you just gotta grit your teeth and do what they want or find a new guild

[nova kelp]

Yeah. It is a terrible decision but it's a case of either deal with it. Or don't.

[hollow river]

Been there done that

[haughty flicker]

yeah thats kind of just how it goes

especially if you arent in some gigachad guild

im playing sub on riccardo because those barrels absolutely arent dying if i dont

[cloud basin]

I mean i enjoy raiding with em cuz it's fun most of the time. But uhhh not so much as a rogue right now

[haughty flicker]

i could just play sin and hit boss but i want the boss to die at some point in this century

[nova kelp]

It's a bit self fulfilling though. Because they want something so bad for you. You look bad. So they think they didn't lose out.

Poorly executed raid choices and information

[neat flame]

I chase adds as sin on stix to make my guild happy, I just chalk that fight up as misery and my reward is tunneling on sprocket like a crack head

[brazen sphinx]

I just don't needa see those bits - I al ready see it on my action bar below

[fleet pagoda]

I had a guild where I had to swap off sub and play single target sin on Zaqali Assault it is what it is

[nova kelp]

You could attempt to get them to just test your thinking on a few pulls

Should you not fuck up it should be super obvious

[hollow river]

If shit ain’t dying just do what they want for progs sake, maybe boss dmg becomes the issue later

[nova kelp]

Then from there it either tells you they don't know how to read logs. Or they don't care to.

[fleet pagoda]

I haven't messed with that WA pack, but I believe if you hit /wa and go to that pack, and navigate the drop down boxes, you should be able to locate them among the "children"/groups and full on delete them from there. or you can set the Load condition to "Never", I guess

[nova kelp]

There's the rip for prog
They should be able to deduce the most efficient use of the group.

Sometimes though people are just dense

[drifting cloud]

problem is your generic advice thats going to be true most of the time doesnt really apply to bandit, boss is a bitch, if your comp sucks for add killing youre not beating the enrage anyways

atleast not the current version

[haughty flicker]

thats kind of the issue

sometimes what optimizes your dps just isnt what the group needs

if adds legit arent dying unless you swap

you just have to swap

[drifting cloud]

and it doesnt matter what you do as the rogue, and not like sub does that more goblin dmg

[dawn heath]

i wonder when im gonna replace this trinket

[haughty flicker]

obviously in a better guild or comp that wouldnt happen

[drifting cloud]

so if youre the only rogue on the fight youre kinda cheerleader squad anyways

[dawn heath]

we're like 20 floodgate runs deep now

[haughty flicker]

but it do be rough sometimes

[nova kelp]

If your comp sucks for killing adds eventually we switch. But we're also LAST in that choice. Or should be.

Alternatively. Switch to sub

[fleet pagoda]

I'm last in that because I haven't touched sub in 3 patches

[drifting cloud]

sub dmg on the adds is equally as bad guys

[nova kelp]

It's not

Sub CAN switch

[drifting cloud]

are you pulling mythic bandit

[haughty flicker]

i cant speak for oab at all im still all the way back on rik lmao

[nova kelp]

It's still awkward. And not groovy. But it CAN

[drifting cloud]

sub is using cds at different points in the fight, assa cds atleast somewhat lineup with the goblins

[haughty flicker]

i think subs value on oab is more for blowing up the bombas

[nova kelp]

What's the time on target though

[brazen sphinx]

Do y'all have a specific addon/WA to alert you to FoK?

[haughty flicker]

you hold your 1:30 cd to 1:40

[hidden bay]

Yes

[nova kelp]

If it's not high enough it's still big bad

[haughty flicker]

but if someone else blows up bombas then yeah its not really important

[nova kelp]

Though myth bandit adds are more like an EVERYONE but tanks switch deal

So it's also a bit different

[haughty flicker]

one day i'll be on oab and can complain about target swapping there

although we'll have so many damage boosts by the time we get there it'll be a different fight lmao

late ce op

[fleet pagoda]

and ilvl, and boss nerfs

[drifting cloud]

boss is going to get nerfs, a mediocre ce guild even with 10%+ aura would struggle here

atleast on current version

[nova kelp]

Yeah everyone says this

Maybe hoard the ol gear and get practicing. Also have some crack on hand to keep up with the spec.

[dawn heath]

isn't sin just the retirement home of rogue specs

[nova kelp]

It's for rogues that like xanax

Ol is for crack addicts

Sub is for MDMA peeps

[dawn heath]

sin rogue hasnt gotten any harder since it was in cataclysm

turbo easy spec

vanilla rotation

[nova kelp]

WDYM we had to use dance for a bit there!

It was like...

Still easy

But still we had an extra button!

[dawn heath]

like sin in m+ has some complexity but damn in raid

its just big xd

[haughty flicker]

For a bit at least we had a few buttons to press

But yeah I’m not really a fan of it atm

The most complex thing to optimize is fok usage

[nova kelp]

I find myself playing sub mostly. Since Sin has a far lower skill ceiling it REQUIRES a bit less one tricking

Or like... None

[haughty flicker]

I mean it’s probably for the best for me anyway lmao, lets me focus on mechanics

First few pulls playing sub on rik I was doing dumb shit like getting hit by the circles

[nova kelp]

That's it. Playing ol can cause a bit of cognitive overload on the other hand

Without a solid amount of experience at least

[autumn frost]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[autumn frost]

!sim

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[autumn frost]

!snap

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of snapshotting

Bleeds update their tick rate dynamically, which means that if you get a haste proc (which increases our tick rate) from somewhere during the encounter (ie. Power Infusion), the bleeds would automatically tick faster, but the second your haste goes back to normal, the tick rate goes back down as well.

Snapshotting refers to getting that haste proc, reapplying bleeds at the faster tick rate, but instead of the bleeds going back to a slower tick rate when your haste drops, they would continue ticking at a faster rate until they expire or are reapplied.

[glad ferry]

So like...

Any reason to use vanish now with VV or no

this is pretty boring

[haughty flicker]

If you accidentally drop mark

[hearty seal]

no reason in ST, I think

[haughty flicker]

Lmao

[autumn frost]

Where do we use vanish now with our new build? Is it just a backup for getting death mark back up

[coral ibex]

vanish for mechs and to fix mark

[autumn frost]

if you accidentally drop it?

[hearty seal]

yeah

[glad ferry]

Yeah I mean, other than when you fuck up mark lol

[haughty flicker]

It’s actually kind of nice on cauldron

You just insta swap mark

[hearty seal]

it is pretty nice on cauldron

[glad ferry]

Yeah makes sense

[nova kelp]

With vv build you'll only need to vanish to force move your dsmark yeah

[hearty seal]

loving it

I don't even drop mark, I just hate the idea of combat stealth on specs that aren't Sub

[undone flame]

New build?

[balmy condor]

New build?

[drifting cloud]

what about the barrels

[coral ibex]

New build?

[haughty flicker]

New build?

Why wasn’t I informed

[autumn frost]

the slight changes we made

where we no longer take improved garrote and master assassin

[haughty flicker]

stop hiding the new build from me

[hollow river]

New build?

sounds like propaganda

[brazen sphinx]

Only just now getting serious about my rogue - so using raidbots sim, it gave me data, but how do I know if it's good or not?

1.675M DPS (ilevel 651)

[balmy condor]

that is a number yes

with 0 context it doesn't really mean anything

but dunno, probably fine I guess

[prime field]

hey! kinda dumb question, but is pooling ever an option since we now take VV?

[dawn heath]

finally

[autumn frost]

Grats

now to farm priory

[dawn heath]

replacing this shit

4.3mil overall

not too shabby

[haughty flicker]

[dawn heath]

this was probably the first g uy i've ever seen not beeing able to play ret paladin

thats a new low

[autumn frost]

lol

[kind ravine]

So happy! Got a 95 parse in a +11 key!

[dawn heath]

i don't wanna be that guy but that only means u are doing 95th percentile key of the spec

has nothing to do with your dps

so u probably did like a 10 or 11 key i assume

[kind ravine]

11

[dawn heath]

ye its just that u timed the key with a sin rogue

nothing related to your dps

you need to swap to damage, then go into a individual log and check for key level %

[hollow talon]

Did not know you could see keys on WCL

[dawn heath]

this thing on the right

[kind ravine]

oh, i cant see it

[dawn heath]

yeah, someone needs to log the run

for you to get a ranking

in your group

[undone flame]

Now im wondering how well I do in m+ myself

[kind ravine]

now i'm ready next time o7

[dawn heath]

/combatlog ingame

but what u gotta realise about key logs is that

its very comp, and pull dependent

if ur tank pulls 3 mobs all duengon

u are not gonna put up a good log

there can be pretty huge variance

[mint cargo]

where can I check the so called "new build"?

[coral ibex]

6% stix wipe

so close

this boss blows btw not a fan

[mint cargo]

that's where we currently sitting at, yeah boss not fun

[coral ibex]

tonight our best ball rollers just never got picked

so tough

[mint cargo]

wait thought mythic? on mythic everyone will be on ball at some point during pull

[coral ibex]

yea

kept getting the worst possible people first 2-3 rolls

[mint cargo]

ahhh relatable...

[coral ibex]

literally hard stuck 40% for a minute

[mint cargo]

you know a boss isn't designed well when the pulls are something like that:

[coral ibex]

and people being very unethical on their balls

[mint cargo]

like 1% pull and then back to 40% wipes 😄

[coral ibex]

stealing many smalls from other quadrants

[faint quartz]

If we should be lining up Deathmark and Kingsbane together, should we be macroing it so we only use one keybind?

[acoustic roost]

they are both on the gcd

[faint quartz]

But we can still hit the same keybind twice that way,no?

[acoustic roost]

doesn't work like that unfortunately. it will keep trying to use the first spell

[grim jay]

It does

Its called castsequence

But its also unnecessary

[faint quartz]

I’m trying to trim down the number of keybinds to use due to an injury

[dapper halo]

on the trash boss i just skip the ball rolling

[grim jay]

Well you can do many things with castsequence macros, just look into them

As long as you use the right abilities at the right time it really doesnt matter what you macro

Even if its generally not advised, if you are injured you gotta work something out ig

[haughty flicker]

based

fuck ethics

[dapper halo]

what ethics

[haughty flicker]

exactly

[ripe carbon]

is there a point where u can have too much mastery? im gonna sim but just wondering

like DRs or something

[quiet oar]

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

[quiet oar]

!pool

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

• Energy just is low on the spec there's nothing to do about it
• Super Min-Max stuff includes avoiding the auto proc of tea (less than +0.2%, tea/shiv macro is optimal)
• Refreshing Envenom in pandemic instead of spamming it (mostly relevant for m+ without TTK, can be up to 0.5%)
• Otherwise nothing matters. Pooling before kingsbanes isn't important because of tea lining up and deathmark giving a huge surge of energy

[runic hinge]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[balmy condor]

thanks for reminding me to delete that

[quiet oar]

Ah

I see

So not relevant at all

[balmy condor]

correkt

[quiet oar]

You just send

and if you are out of energy

so be it

[coral ibex]

heroic moment

[grim jay]

The point at which the sim tells you to pick smth different.

[grim jay]

I woke up out of energy

[runic hinge]

time to pool

[quiet oar]

Same

[coral ibex]

i'm not napping i'm pooling for my next kb

[quiet oar]

Do we get back in bed?

Together?

[coral ibex]

[quiet oar]

KB is so weak

[runic hinge]

[quiet oar]

@grim jay Thats us

[grim jay]

[quiet oar]

[dawn heath]

assa cds are fake

[stable notch]

Hey guys, can someone tell me what im still doing wrong with my parses? Imrpoved a lot since last advice but still getting 50% on some bosses like below
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9WLbxAvyaHNVdjgc?fight=40&type=damage-done

[dawn heath]

on this fight in particular u need your tank to drag the boss over the assistant, and once on them u want to rupture them maybe even garrote, and stay on the boss, get some free spatter cleave and u can energy snipe with rupture

you get like 200+ energy back if ur target dies with rupture up its pretty good

[stable notch]

oh didnt know that

thats prett good on some adds to quickly rupture for energy boost

[dawn heath]

idk why u caster your deathmark at 1minute mark

and not on pull

but thats surely a mitake

mistake

also stop pressing fan of knives if u talented into vicious venoms

only when all the bots spawn and u have plenty of targets to hit with it

[stable notch]

Ahh so dont do it with vivious venoms

[dawn heath]

nope

your opener is kinda cooked

you need to look into that

practise it

[stable notch]

Gotta time deathmark more

[dawn heath]

you need to line up your death mark with every other KB

[stable notch]

Yeah thats what i also saw on the guide online

but I messed it up here for sure

[flint raptor]

Hi rogues, does someone uses the german client and have the Tea+Shiv makro? Its not working for me when i just use the german spells

[hollow river]

do you have some thistle tea sitting in your bank?

[knotty canopy]

In hybrid build m+ is it still Worth to press the fotk proc in st?

[balmy condor]

!fok

[prisma monolith]

Fok Conditions Post-Buff
Fan of Knives as a generator to replace ambush/mutilate:

• Baseline 3+ targets, -1 if talented into momentum of despair and thrown precision, +1 if talented into vicious venoms, +1 if talented into blindside. (Generally 5 with raid build, 3 with Bleed m+, 2 with Hybrid m+)
  Fan of Knives with Clear the Witnesses Up:
• Baseline 2+ targets, -1 if lingering darkness is up or you aren't talented into vicious venoms. With Vicious Venoms casting during lingering darkness is dps neutral.
  Fan of Knives with Darkest Night Up:
• Only on 2+ targets, or without Vicious Venoms talented. This is also a very very minor optimization

The most important to remember is the generator rules, clear the witnesses and darkest night optimizations can be effectively ignored as they are not meaningful DPS improvements

[knotty canopy]

Thx sir 🙏🏾

[flint raptor]

i will look at that

[balmy condor]

/cast Tückishe Klinge 
/castsequence reset=5 Disteltee, null

kannst probieren, würde aber empfehlen dass du nochmal nachschaust das du keinen uralten disteltee hast irgendwo, wie notrickz gesagt hat. Der alte disteltee schlägt den makro zusammen irgendwie, also alten distletee einfach wegwerfen

[jovial idol]

WUNDERBAR

[idle vine]

Ik stats are crit > mast, but simming myself, but in patchwerk, I have mast>haste>vers>crit>agil and in dungeon slice, have mast >> vers=agil>crit>>haste. So, when crafting, should I pay any attention to this? Or just craft with crit/mast?

[jovial idol]

Go with sim

Always. The stst prio is a general recommendation, it varies in reality according to everyone's stats

Also haste has more value in ST

And less in AoE

[flint raptor]

du hast dort ein C vergessen
#showtooltip Tückische Klinge
/cast Tückische Klinge
/castsequence reset=5 Disteltee, null
Funktioniert leider trotzdem nicht.

[balmy condor]

sorry, keine ahnung dann

[flint raptor]

Trotzdem vielen dank!

[strange python]

Kannste spell ID‘s verwenden

[blazing pumice]

stat weights are going to change depending on what your other pieces are

[strange python]

Or am I wrong here

Psure you can put spell ids in macros right

[balmy condor]

no you can't

item id yes

spell id no

[strange python]

Oh really

Crazy

[jovial idol]

It depends if you want more AoE or ST damage

[blazing pumice]

just craft crit/mastery and don't think about it too much

[balmy condor]

yeh

either don't use a missive and let god take the wheel

or craft everything crit/mast

[strange python]

This is so based

Everyone loves this cool ring with random stats

[blazing pumice]

what are sub stats atm

crit/vers?

[strange python]

Just craft without missives then?

Vers mastery

Crit ain’t bad tho at high mastery levels

[hollow talon]

Sub is vers mastery

But then you'd be forced to play sub rogue

[jovial idol]

Sub is cool

I like all rogue specs tbh

[hollow talon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/124169701881282560/1110305168328765440/6an3o7.gif

[jovial idol]

But I've been playing rogue for too long so I'm probably used to a blend of all the specs together

I reckon now people are used to their distinct chosen play style

[hollow talon]

I like outlaw but i think I'll end up with carpal tunnel if I raid 3 nights a week on it

[jovial idol]

The problem with outlaw is that it's like drugs

[mystic osprey]

agreed

[jovial idol]

When you get used to that play style it's so hard to go back to other specs

[mystic osprey]

bruh what 😭

you tripping

outlaw aint that hard

[jovial idol]

Who said it's hard?

I said it's hard to go to other specs once you get a taste of the 0.8 gcd

[mystic osprey]

eh

its not that bad

for me personally

going from outlaw to sin 🥱

[jovial idol]

Sin is a bit of a snoozefest in ST

[zenith elm]

Yeah, but in AOE? we big

[vale lantern]

atrophic posion and vers now show how much they mitigated over a fight in warcraft logs now 😮

[hollow talon]

I think this may be my problem

[vale lantern]

time to become healers

[hollow talon]

I try to ooga booga send every cd all the time

It's the outlaw brain rot

[zenith elm]

And i dont press my CD as other specs cause i think i'm pooling as assa

[jovial idol]

Yeah, in AoE it's more engaging for sure

[zenith elm]

we are cooked

In ST i'm sleeping on my keyboard tbh

[hollow talon]

I never pooled in the first place gotta ooga booga press buttons

[jovial idol]

Outlaw is the opposite of this 🤣

If you wanna play it correctly ofc

[balmy condor]

can't wait for numbing poison to be completely ignored yet again

[vale lantern]

it was 😦

[hollow talon]

Need cdr from finishers!

[zenith elm]

Numbing poison in progress is not BIS lol

[vale lantern]

sadly im the rogue who runs numbing in our raid 😦

[zenith elm]

Athrophic for the win

[jovial idol]

Yeah but it's far from sending everything on CD. It has a crapload of conditions for when to send each buff/cd

[balmy condor]

in raid you run double atrophic

[vale lantern]

we have 2 rogues no point in us both running atrophic

[dapper halo]

mind numbing alcohol

[balmy condor]

but in m+ atrophic is pretty cope

[balmy condor]

it stacks

[vale lantern]

wait

no shot

[zenith elm]

2 rogues ? no you joking

never saw another rogue in my life

[mystic osprey]

THIS ^^^

[jovial idol]

There's only one rogue in the room at any moment

[vale lantern]

we have an outlaw one trick in our guild

[jovial idol]

Otherwise the time space continuum will be altered

[mystic osprey]

me 😔

[vale lantern]

does outlaw really count as a rogue and not just a pirate

[zenith elm]

If there is more, one of them shadow step/grappling hook out

[mystic osprey]

pirates are rogues

[balmy condor]

it stacked in dragonflight and then they fixed it but their version control is so dogshit that it unfixed itself

[dapper halo]

we have two rouges in raid, we sniff each other alot, kinda like dogs do

[zenith elm]

I need the outlaw opinion on new set tier

[jovial idol]

Outlaw is the most roguey actually, since Sin and Sub are more like Assassins

[zenith elm]

mythic transmog, cook or na?

[dapper halo]

rouges are overpowdered

[zenith elm]

Anyone has been surprised with our buff this week? feels a bit overtuned

[jovial idol]

Especially outlaw

Too much gunpowder

[dapper halo]

no its not overtuned

[jovial idol]

Well you said overpowdered

[dapper halo]

i like doing damage

[jovial idol]

Outlaw is the one with the most powder

[hollow talon]

We need combat rogue back

[dapper halo]

praise

[zenith elm]

I want a gunslinger rogue

not just one ability, whole kit

[dapper halo]

combat rouge best rouge

not that amphetamine spring outlaw

[jovial idol]

Imagine killing Spree but shooting guns all around you instead

[flint raptor]

Tea makro workes now on my german client,
It cached the Item i think. So after deleting the Cache folder it worked 🙂

[jovial idol]

Like reaper ult

[zenith elm]

THIS ^^^^

With glyphs

[dapper halo]

that would be very murica

[zenith elm]

would be SO COOL

[jovial idol]

I would play it

[zenith elm]

I would too, just to be stylish

[verbal blaze]

as much as I dislike the game it came from, I always thought a good fix for Killing Spree would be something like Seven-Sided Strike from Monk in Diablo 3

[jovial idol]

Ranged rogues are awesome in DnD, in wow it's very limited

[zenith elm]

Imagine, gun transmog for outlaw ?

[dapper halo]

imagine emptying glock18c mag but the clip is like 100rounds big

[jovial idol]

It would be too op to be immune every 25 seconds

[vale lantern]

interesting i didnt realize it did so we always made it a point not to run double

[zenith elm]

At least a dmg reduction?

it seems a bit annoying if not tbh

[dapper halo]

i got killed by killingspree so many times

[jovial idol]

My main gripe is that if you get cc'd it ends

[hollow talon]

Ranged outlaw sounds cool, I would also like a dog or a wolf or something to help me attack

[jovial idol]

So being cc immune would be good enough, but probably broken in pvp

[hollow talon]

That sounds fun

[zenith elm]

Killingspreed but its you who gets killed

[jovial idol]

Killedspree

[dapper halo]

but what id mainly like to see, is rouge tank

[zenith elm]

I wont accept any other name for this ability

[hollow talon]

Didn't they do rouge tank in SoD

[verbal blaze]

I feel like there's more ways to fix that than the current Killing spree

[zenith elm]

They did

[hollow talon]

Was it any good

Never played sod

[zenith elm]

Never played it so idk

the point was always dodging i think

[dapper halo]

sod is just a big experiment for blizzard

[zenith elm]

I'd love to have a rogue tank sepc

spec*

[dapper halo]

but they are doing it in production environment

[zenith elm]

so i can pug M+ easily

[dapper halo]

basically sod is just a big playground for features

that might endup in retail

its a goldmine for experimentation and actual data

[jovial idol]

I mean, I would love it, but I feel people would end up cheesing half the mechanics and it will have to be nerfed in no time

I would say that It has an animation of some illusion of you doing the slashing and you still get to play your character. Kind of like the old ST but not shadow themed

[royal lantern]

make it like dh blade dance and thats it lol

[dapper halo]

the only thing i miss from combat is that i cant use cts mog

chromatically tempered sword looks cooool

or thunderfury

did someone say thunderfury, blessed blade of the windseeker

[hearty seal]

wonder why tf did the DF rework change Indiscriminate Carnage
it looks as though it was perfect?

[runic hinge]

When it was a 45 second cd?

[tawny geyser]

What could I do to improve the numbers on this fight? The downtime really hurts. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/D9fFJ2kQWYjNRHrB?fight=20&type=damage-done

[hearty seal]

yeah but it hit 8 targets at once

[tawny geyser]

There were some rotation mistakes, but it was a first kill , was focusing primarily on mechanics

[hearty seal]

and rupture lasts long enough that it's not a problem

[subtle tundra]

bruh

you dont see the problem with almost permanent aoe bleeds

?

[hearty seal]

not in PvE, no

[subtle tundra]

well not only was it a tuning nightmare

its also just against assa

design

[runic hinge]

Because it was terrible in both low and high keys, there was a small section where pulls would last long enough you would get your cd back for the next pack but without it you were manually dotting every single mob

[subtle tundra]

how can you make bleeds do anything when they are just so easy to get

(still a problem btw)

[vale lantern]

@balmy condor so i was curious since you said atrophic stacked who else has AoE dr for the group and discovered Devo aura is also stacking, in theory could u run a 28 paladin 2 rogue group for 100% dr?

[runic hinge]

So you’d either be ina low key and you’re using it once every other pack. Or you’re in a high key and you gotta use it to reapply and you don’t have it for the next one

[subtle tundra]

also waiting in stealth to use IC with improved garrote

lol

waiting for IC cooldown x d

[runic hinge]

Yeah lol and it’s range was wack

Had to wait for full grouping

[balmy condor]

they're multiplicative, so you'd need an infinite amount of rogues, but yes

[subtle tundra]

i cant think of any good thing about that IC

[runic hinge]

Made me lazy

[hearty seal]

these days you need to blow a vanish charge half the time anyway, and that's on a 2 min CD
unless your tank is actually courteous enough to wait for restealth

[subtle tundra]

damn. and what else you gonna use your vanish for

[runic hinge]

There is plenty of down time in keys. You don’t need to vanish between every pack

[runic hinge]

Spam CT or spam envenom it doesn’t matter you’re a 2 button spec in aoe just whichever you want

[balmy condor]

I wonder if anything else happened in 10.2 that caused carnage to need a rework for balance reasons

surely there was no talent updates or anything

that caused bleeds to be much stronger

[subtle tundra]

fuck 7th cp btw

[balmy condor]

and would've left a 45 second carnage in a state of unbalance

that would never happen right

[runic hinge]

They got rid of a cute spell

[vale lantern]

ah okay yeah that ,makes sense

[runic hinge]

[subtle tundra]

i miss exsang...

exsanguinating your deathmark

lets - go!

[runic hinge]

S1 strats

Leaked

We had exsang and we ran ER

Assa had it all fr

[hearty seal]

well obvs there was a whole rework
but I feel like something along the lines of old IC meshes with what the desired end state of Assa AoE is, that is, "rupture is on as many targets as you can get"

[runic hinge]

We did 0 aoe in raid build

[balmy condor]

are we playing the same spec

[runic hinge]

I think Assa aoe feels pretty good rn

[hearty seal]

it's not bad yeah

[balmy condor]

in what world is that the desired end state

rupture does shit for damage lmao

[red tangle]

Okay so, I’m a tank (BDK) and pushing through +12/13s at the moment. There is one specific scenario I keep running into whenever there is a rogue in my group, and while I think I’m right in what I do I feel like the amount of rogues raging at me is starting to make me feel I might be wrong.

So this happens: we kill a pull, say first boss room in rookery, and a big mob (voidrider) remains with a high amount of health (30%+). I decide to chain this into the next pack, as I feel like (and here I might be wrong?) the re-stealth for the rogue is not big enough to warrant waiting for this mob to die in single target. The rogue then starts fuming because I don’t let him restealth.

This has happened with the past 5-10 rogues I’ve played with, so I’m kinda starting to doubt myself.

So, is the restealth worth STing a mob for so long? How big actually is the restealth? Where lies the border in dropping combat being worthwhile (or not)

[balmy condor]

!chainpull

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why stealth benefits aren't as important as you might think:

• For starters, "Chain pulls" are NOT when the tank pulls a new pack with 1% hp remaining on the previous mobs. That is called "Bad Tanking", and it sucks for everyone in your party.
• Correct Chain pulls usually happen while the previous pack is still alive and not dangerous. This increases uptime on more targets, which is the biggest increase in DPS for the entire party. This is also the biggest reason why you see high key level players doing so much damage.
• Garrote is roughly 7-9% of people's damage in a key, most of which is already empowered/cleaved
• Most energy spreading will come from Rupture to maintain scent of blood, not garrote
• Without a Trace (+1 vanish charge) only grants roughly 2 additional casts across a whole dungeon, but does allow for holding vanish for large chain pulls which improves the quality of each vanish
• You can argue that it "feels bad", but numerically there is very little ground to stand on, the dps simply isn't there.

[balmy condor]

tell the rogue to eat shit and hair

[runic hinge]

If it was me I’m sending cds into the void rider and making sure that shit dies first

[red tangle]

Cool, been doing that anyway, but now I know it’s justified ;)

[subtle tundra]

yes tell the rogue to play better

and kill the prio target

[red tangle]

That’s what I was thinking too XD

[drifting cloud]

the rogue pugs in 12s sounds like the perfect candidates to get mad about it

[red tangle]

priority target management seems to be terrible in pugs, might just start skullmarking again because people don’t think

[hearty seal]

tbh that's what I'm always doing, find the biggest target and cleave off that? I figured that was the right play anyway

[runic hinge]

Yes that’s what you wanna do

[hearty seal]

unless the party is juicing on damage, it will die faster than small mobs

[drifting cloud]

eh depends on the dungeon

[red tangle]

There are times I do more damage on prio mobs than any of the dps

It’s kinda sad

[runic hinge]

You playin bleed or hybrid

[golden loom]

assa is also good at prio

[drifting cloud]

I play bleed because im lazy and I only do 10s

[subtle tundra]

based and real

[drifting cloud]

when I go 3k for the mount ill swap to stinkybane

[golden loom]

you have singular focus, scent of blood, infinite energy and infinite combo points pumping into a prio target

[hearty seal]

yea

[subtle tundra]

by that time you will be geared to the teeth and 12s will be like 10s

[distant plinth]

Did you join this cord to complain about rogue?

[drifting cloud]

they already kinda are, its just every group is half alts now

[subtle tundra]

did he complain or just asked for help

[drifting cloud]

but wdym by that time, what if I do it this week or the next varas!

(I wont)

[hearty seal]

also when does bleed build fall off hard enough to notice? I figure 12s would be the breakpoint

[distant plinth]

Just kill gally and uninstall already bro

[subtle tundra]

yes

i cant fucking wait

5% wipe on mugzee

[drifting cloud]

if you were assa thatd be 4%

[runic hinge]

Soon then

[subtle tundra]

shitass boss

[subtle tundra]

if i was assa we'd be stuck in p1

cause who is gonna do cages

[distant plinth]

😂😂

[red tangle]

If you read the message you’d see that I’m asking if I’m wrong in what I’m doing as I am starting to doubt myself and would like confirmation from other rogues (ones that aren’t in my pugs, and actually know what they’re talking about) if I’m doing things the right way or if I’m an idiot

[drifting cloud]

assa!

[golden loom]

did you guys smash one armed?

[subtle tundra]

he smashed the fuck out of us

we had a fuckload of verey low % wipes

[drifting cloud]

that might be me on monday

[cerulean walrus]

Yeah any rogue screeching about restealths is gaslighting you and is bad

Don’t let them

Tell them to be better

[subtle tundra]

inc. boss would've been dead if i was assa or something

[runic hinge]

I love gaslighting

[red tangle]

Been doing that :)

[cerulean walrus]

Very good

[balmy condor]

he's just asking a question, but to be fair knowing what the fucking freak animals in pugs are like, I would join to bitch about rogues

[runic hinge]

But I don’t complain about restealths

[distant plinth]

Haha sorry, just dont inv rogues then😂😂

[red tangle]

Thanks guys, I’ll see you around :)

[subtle tundra]

ill be in stealth you wont

[drifting cloud]

laters

[subtle tundra]

(on monk)

[runic hinge]

[west crown]

it doesnt fall off a cliff, but when you start to actually have a pack and prio target that lives hybrid gets better

[cerulean walrus]

Mink stealth based

Mink?

[subtle tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/mink-gang-new-world-gif-23559080

[cerulean walrus]

Monk, even

[red tangle]

I usually just join keys that I need so don’t really have that choice :)

[runic hinge]

Want to do a 12 dfc?

I won’t complain about restealths

[distant plinth]

Let me join

I have a +7 dfc

[red tangle]

At work right now sorry :)

[runic hinge]

I’m kidding I’m in bed it’s 5 am

[cerulean walrus]

True

Funny rectangle in bed is always the best time of the day

(It’s 5am)

[hearty seal]

I see
ngl I love blindside so much...would be hard to abandon that

[balmy condor]

not actually convinced how true this is btw

[iron vapor]

As a counterpoint from a very lazy man, I like being able to restealth between packs because indiscriminate carnage is fewer button presses than manually spreading out my ruptures.

[subtle tundra]

fucking remove ic

PLEASE

i beg

PLEASE

[west crown]

sim change? I miss something?

[hearty seal]

are you actually mental enough to want to manually spread garrotes and ruptures all the time?

[west crown]

just remove bleeds, make sin a poison spec, keep bleeds to feral

[balmy condor]

a bit but bleed build also got buffed a fair bit with ambush and the bleed stuff previously

[subtle tundra]

bro doesnt know assa was a spec before talent trees existed too

what do you think assa did before IC existed

[hearty seal]

I unironically skipped the whole part of WoW where talent trees didn't exist
quit before MoP, came back in early TWW

[red tangle]

Aren’t they basically the same thing? Just a different name?

(Coming from a non-rogue and feral player, have mercy if I’m wrong)

[runic hinge]

Garret 1 garret 2 garret 3

[hearty seal]

nah feral does some snapshotting shit

assa doesn't care

[runic hinge]

I played some feral tonight

[red tangle]

I mean aren’t poisons and bleeds the same thing just a different damage class

[drifting cloud]

I saw you had 300days played on a druid Tony

[hearty seal]

well, in the grand scheme of things, yes, they're both dots

[runic hinge]

Does that scare you

[drifting cloud]

Im not sure I can forgive you

[hearty seal]

but we don't have like
rogues putting curse of agony on people

[runic hinge]

I didn’t know anything but Druid for many years

[hearty seal]

(other than outlaw players getting carpal tunnel)

[iron vapor]

Yeah, they're both numbers that come off a boss' health, but depending on talents we sometimes do bigger numbers with bleeds than poisons or vice versa

[red tangle]

Assa=feral

Kidding ;)

[red tangle]

Putting curse of agony on themselves

[iron vapor]

Why stop there when there's swirlies to stand in?

[runic hinge]

Rake is garrote. Rip is rupture. Fb is envenom. Primal wrath is ct.

[hearty seal]

tbh I could never play druid
the only class in the game I actually just can't find a redeeming feature that would be interesting for me

[red tangle]

Resto is fun

[hearty seal]

thankfully rogue exists

[west crown]

Gotcha, Is the better prio dam in hybrid still better for higher keys then?

[red tangle]

If assa became a healer basically

Well maybe that’s stretching the all hots and dots are the same

[hearty seal]

the only healer I ever enjoyed in my life, for a short period of time, was Scholar in FFXIV during StB

then they fucked it up

[west crown]

ya know, dont respond to that, its right on the guide

[runic hinge]

You can drop sbs and doomblade for MA and kb and now you have prio damage and blindside and zold

Whisp is gonna fill you with the knowledge of bleed

[runic hinge]

I only played feral so I was already used to bleeds. That’s how I ended up here

[west crown]

ive been playing it and watched all the videos, guides what not. just getting to 12s and thinking I may need to go back to hybrid

[subtle tundra]

i wanna bleed...

cut my life into pieces

[next ocean]

Is it odd that the right-side bleed m+ build sims quite a bit higher for me still than left/blindside? or totally normal?

663 ilevel

[drifting cloud]

ill think about it!!

[runic hinge]

How much is quite a bit

[next ocean]

Like 120k

[balmy condor]

On like 2 min aoe, hybrid is ahead like 1.2% in single target, then loses/equal until 5 target where it's around 2.5% better, then on 10 target it's like 5% better as caustic becomes more and more important to leverage for aoe, but even on 10 targets the priority damage is within 2%, and basically neck and neck on prio damage for lower target counts. Note that none of this includes the actual execute value from zold/blindside in any situation where that's important, and the execute damage from sudden demise is not simmed. And it does all of that WITHOUT kingsbane which is kinda wild.

I wouldn't really consider hybrid "better" for most players. Like it's most likely undeniably better for the high pushers, but the builds are strikingly similar damage wise. Instead the way I would think about it is that the larger a pull gets, or the less you can utilize your bleeds/sudden demise, the more important caustic becomes. That shift in damage profile going further and further into caustic is inevitably what causes hybrid to be "better".

Even in those circumstances though, hybrid generally will lose more going iron wire compared to bleed builds. So if you're someone who runs iron wire, the difference will be closer generally and bleed builds can keep up or even be better. Repeating the whole numbers from above, bleed starts to actually get ahead of hybrid in both overall and prio damage on 8 targets, and maintains near equivalency everywhere else

[hearty seal]

isn't that like 3-4%?

[next ocean]

It is

AP and FC in the middle/bleed as opposed to going down the left side and getting blindside, I'd say 4% is actually 'quite a bit' no?

[west crown]

Maybe pin a tldr (if its a common question) hybrid if consistently pulling 10+?

[balmy condor]

playing AP on a bleed build can sim higher but it feels like a bit of a sim hallucination honestly cause it's so antithetical to the entire idea behind a bleed build

[west crown]

not that anyone reads

[royal lantern]

ethical dmg only

[balmy condor]

yeh there's one more sim update that I need to finish up for it and then there's gonna be another tldr

but like the TLDR can really just be

[drifting cloud]

yo wisp can I get TLDR on iron wire numbers in both builds

[balmy condor]

bleed build is closer to hybrid build than supercharger is to without a trace and if you're playing supercharger you might as well just play whatever the hell you want and quit bitching about talent variances

[drifting cloud]

since you seem on a roll

[hearty seal]

amen

[balmy condor]

it's like 5-6% on hybrid and 3-4% on bleed

[west crown]

dont need to call certain people out here

[balmy condor]

:)

[west crown]

[balmy condor]

supercharger is legit like +2% in st

and then -9% in aoe

[drifting cloud]

instead of which talents exactly, bleed instead of sbs, hybrid instead of ttk?

[balmy condor]

it's horrid

[drifting cloud]

or different ones

[hearty seal]

[balmy condor]

uh

I mean what did you give up for ttk

[drifting cloud]

oh instead of MA

[balmy condor]

yeh

[west crown]

SD was what it used to be

[balmy condor]

I mean that one point is pretty all over the place

but sanguine is pretty good

[drifting cloud]

so its instead of MA in both builds then yeah?

[balmy condor]

bleed build drops sbs/doom for kb/wire generally

but you could technically drop ma as well yes

[west crown]

is the ttk and sudden demise flex still similar in damage on hybrid or did the buffs change that

[balmy condor]

sudden demise is must-take

you'd need to find another talent to get ttk

but in general I don't really see the point in ttk

like I get it's a crowd favorite for some reason

but the reason ttk is so strong in raid is because it makes dashing scoundrel so much stronger

not because it's like, just strong on its own

don't get me wrong, the talent is fine

it's just not THAT TALENT without dashing

[hearty seal]

hmmm
wonder if dropping wire/SBS for TTK/dashing would be reasonable in hybrid

[balmy condor]

it is not

dashing is literally 0 dps in aoe

taking it is pointless

well I say that but some dumbass is probably going to run it and rave about how much better the boss damage is

[hearty seal]

yeah that's true, energy is just limitless in AoE anyway, and 5% crit on poisons isn't doing much...

[balmy condor]

also funnily enough depending on the character if you want iron wire on hybrid the sim wants to drop kingsbane

[hearty seal]

doubt 100k on boss is worth losing SBS on packs

[balmy condor]

which leads to this goofy ass shit

[drifting cloud]

I just want feelcraft ok

ngl I read the guide poorly I kinda forgot MA was an option

[balmy condor]

It’s a lot to keep track of im ngl

[drifting cloud]

I was taking away sbs and it felt shit

but its a 10 so who cares

[balmy condor]

I can’t keep all the talent swaps straight sometimes

Especially when the sim is like hey buddy this build is entirely caustic spatter and Kingsbane and shit

And then drops kingsbane

Bleed build also can drop lightweight shiv for iron wire

But unironically I think lightweight shiv is just necessary when you play arterial

no

nor would you want to

[strange python]

Every time I open this channel I see some talent tree

Do you guys just

Moon knight talents atm

[shy axle]

bleed build just is more aggressive with garrote, right? dash as many gar out as possible while still only 5 ruptures? splatter afterwards?

[strange python]

Everything’s the same or what

[balmy condor]

rotation is identical

[balmy condor]

there's a billion ways to play m+ and have it be good

[shy axle]

okay thank you

[balmy condor]

and then there's another trillion ways that brainlet mplussers play it

[strange python]

Yeah thought so

[balmy condor]

so it makes for a lot of combinations

[strange python]

Just play what feels best fr

[balmy condor]

there's like 2 main build archetypes right now and each one has about 5-6 variations on the spec tree that can be played, and then there's another 5-6 variations on the bottom of the class tree

so it adds up pretty quick

[strange python]

Suffering from success

Is what I call that

[grim jay]

Wouldnt call it success

[golden loom]

my guild is asking me to swap sub for this fight 😦

[strange python]

I mean talent tree design wise it’s surely success if that many combinations work

[balmy condor]

from a design and balance perspective it's very fun, and very impressive from blizzards end

like it is just objectively very healthy for the spec

I just wish less people on this earth were dumbfucks

[grim jay]

It would be true success if the options offered a more different approach to gameplay or profile imo

Overall its good tho

Cant stress enough how much I like what they did with the uhdk tree

[strange python]

Bro if you look at other specs in the game, legit every other one besides the most most recently reworked ones

Assa spec tree is goated

[golden loom]

I mean there are 3 talents that are never picked and 2 of them are choice nodes

[hearty seal]

(I like Arms' tree better ngl)
(aside from having Cleave as a talent rather than part of Arms by default)

[golden loom]

while stuff like fury has Single minded fury

[grim jay]

Uhdk tree basically has a side for diseases and a side for minions, while also somewhat having different profiles

[strange python]

That sounds cool and all

But Druids having sides for their forms has caused them more problems than it helps

[grim jay]

Yeah well there always is a "too much"

[hearty seal]

on one hand, TG has ever been a mistake
on the other hand, SMF continues to be a different but still extant mistake

[strange python]

Idk enough about udk i just randomly log in do a low key on it here and there and watch my blood abomination explode

But the tree from a glance over it doesn’t look that insane to me

[golden loom]

Titans grip is legit the coolest thing in the game

wdym

like fury class fantasy is goated

[hearty seal]

disagree but w/e

then again I find that I just don't vibe with warcraft designs very well
like somehow I'm stuck at the most basic bitch ideas in WC - arms war, assa rogue, arcane mage

everything that tries to be "special" in Warcraft just annoys me
it's part of why I spent years in FFXIV before they killed any fun outside of savage raiding - old Dark Knight was goated, old Dragoon was goated, Red Mage still kinda is but doesn't make my neurons actually move even slightly

[strange python]

Why like man with big sword but not man with 2 big sword

[grim jay]

I think there are some good ideas, I just tend to not like all the specs of most classes

Or like

[hearty seal]

one is cool
the other is trying too hard
(also I like the arms' idea of "cool, calculated white-hot rage" more than "I just slam everything in sight rage" of fury)

[grim jay]

I really enjoy WW, outside of fof, but they often sucked

[strange python]

He’s just really really strong

[golden loom]

Give VERY ANGRY man 2 giant swords and have him charge in on an old god, its peak

[strange python]

Idk SMF also looks really dumb

[flint raptor]

whatsa wrong with assa in your specc fantasy?

[strange python]

A warrior

With one hundred

[lean aurora]

I do pretty good aoe dmg in higher keys but am falling behind in bossfights. Is there any build out there, which is optimal for keys like Theater of Pain where there arent many big pulls? Our group is having a hard time with downing bosses fast

[strange python]

Handers*

[hearty seal]

pretty much nothing, that's why I stick with it
I don't like the feel of stealth-based openers, but otherwise it's good

[hollow dirge]

to each their own, for me the class fantasy peaked at rogue legendary quest line, having to stealth around and kill important targets, extract shit and stuff. goat questline, and unique class feeling. but it's all a matter of different taste in the end

[strange python]

Most specs peaked at their order hall campaign tbh

God I want order halls

They had such a good opportunity with hero talents

Like bro why am I a deathstalker now what’s the lore how did I join them

But no all you do is get lvl 71 and put a talent point in

Im still upset about that

Not even a quest

Nothing

[radiant raven]

[blazing pumice]

fatebound would have 0% completion tho

[strange python]

Outlaw exists

(Sadly)

[blazing pumice]

wait

i'm thinking trickster

I don't think anyone plays it?

[strange python]

Sub plays trickster???

[hollow dirge]

I did not dislike the sewers and shit, but this discord is not called ravenholdt for no reason. I think they flopped with rogue class halls

[hearty seal]

deathstalker would be improved by 40% with a single change
call it lightslayer
||(this is a WoW TTRPG meme, carry on)||

[blazing pumice]

i thought they played ds

[strange python]

No we don’t

We did in pure st last season

[wide ferry]

stupid question before i craft it, can i have 2 crafted daggers? I have a dagger and wrist crafted with embellishments already, wondering if i can use 2 everforged as long as its not a third embellishment