keep in mind that come tuesday, blindside is a much more attractive option
#assassination
gritty laurel
west crown
read the pin
royal lantern
you have enough mastery, or will you fall into the "fuck it gives menthe wrong secondary" situation aswell 
dreamy rover
keep in mind that come tuesday, blindside is a much more attractive option
yup, i've been running blindside w/ bleed build even before buffs
west crown
"Talent wise, for bleed build in m+ you'd be silly to not run blindside now"
sudden brook
you have enough mastery, or will you fall into the "fuck it gives menthe wrong s...
Ill figure it out
dawn heath
ye
cinder bone
yup, i've been running blindside w/ bleed build even before buffs
What did you drop for it
dreamy rover
What did you drop for it
tiny toxic blade
cinder bone
Ahhh smart
dawn heath
fuckign tanks
dreamy rover
"Blindside and Tiny Toxic Blade are interchangeable as well, with Tiny Toxic Blade being the choice for AoE, while Blindside is a minor single target improvement. Neither one of them will drastically alter the damage of the build, but Blindside is generally the worse option overall."
whispyr is the smart one O_O
waxen oyster
"Blindside and Tiny Toxic Blade are interchangeable as well, with Tiny Toxic B...
Tends to happen that blindside is meh in content you dont ambush often in
west crown
"Blindside and Tiny Toxic Blade are interchangeable as well, with Tiny Toxic B...
whispyr also addresses this situation in pins
royal lantern
Tends to happen that blindside is meh in content you dont ambush often in
counter argument
ambush going glowy makes brain happy
wise plume
real
timber meadow
out of curiosity - did they ever remove the extra spark from ppl who exploited?
royal lantern
no, cus it wasnt really a bigtime exploit and many did it by accident even
they just gave everyone a spark half and called it a day
timber meadow
yeah still confused on why they gave everyone a half spark
i figured they just wanted to delay everything to give themselves time to fix the actual issue
but since they never removed the spark iono what was accomplished but doesn't really matter lol
fleet pagoda
so people who didn't exploit didn't feel like they were perma behind
timber meadow
but ohw did giving everyone an extra spark change that? it didn't right
like everyone who didn't exploit is still just perma behidn
balmy condor
I mean not really
gritty laurel
the first 2 sparks are the most important, so i'm guessing that's why they bumped everyone to that point and said fuggit
balmy condor
the whole issue was that they got their second embellishment
which everyone else also has now
timber meadow
i wouldn't say that was the whoel issue
balmy condor
and who cares after that
dreamy rover
licko vs equid?
gritty laurel
we don't do that here
waxen oyster
haughty flicker
Idc if some randoms have half a spark more than me
fleet pagoda
int one handers only in here 
balmy condor
if people are crafting a third item this early it's an L anyway lmao
dreamy rover
why do people think embellishments make a big diff
because they used to in DF
royal lantern
"bro maghar sims so much higher, im forced to reroll for competitive dps, look at the bloodmallet lists bro, btw, what does this boss do? and do you have potions? wait i have to check wowlogs first to see what potions i should use!!!!"
dreamy rover
and that assumption isnt farfetched
waxen oyster
their fault being slow
fleet pagoda
yeah most people probably aren't terminally tied to their class discord scrolling
waxen oyster
i guess
gritty laurel
most people are wrong
dreamy rover
yeah most people probably aren't terminally tied to their class discord scrollin...
this @waxen oyster
waxen oyster
no its not terminally tied to discord its reading the numbers
royal lantern
if people are crafting a third item this early it's an L anyway lmao
i dont get it? you mean cus of the crests its "wasting" or what?
balmy condor
ye
waxen oyster
its a matter of reading tooltips
fleet pagoda
we like tooltips in here now? 
waxen oyster
the amount of mastery bsl gave
then again whispyr proved no one fucking reads
by wowhead guide views
haughty flicker
ye the tooltip like writhing armor band
gritty laurel
whispyr proves that every time he pins a new message
royal lantern
by wowhead guide views
bigbrain idea: make the BiS list link actually open the rotational guide instead
dreamy rover
the amount of mastery bsl gave
you're out here rembering how much your embellishments from last xpac gave you?
me touch grass a bit
waxen oyster
I remember it was a bigger amount
haughty flicker
bigbrain idea: make the BiS list link actually open the rotational guide instead
imagine making it to the bis list
if its not in the cheat sheet idc
waxen oyster
Idk i touch grass more then the average
royal lantern
my embelishment experience is:
open wowhead->check in gear section the embelishmenta->use them
who tf cares what they do, its passive number up anyway
waxen oyster
i mean
i saw they didnt up embellishment numbers
so why would it change
from s1
royal lantern
cant tell you what blessed weapon grip or lense does tbh 
waxen oyster
embellishments already sucked in s1
now we're gaining over 40 ilvls
with the same embellish values
🆗
gritty laurel
um ackshually it's 39 ilvls
royal lantern
tbf, embelishments dont need to do giga dmg
their point is just too make people use crafted gear, so that crafting has value
and it does that
royal lantern
and weapon enchants in DF gave you huge dmg swings aswell
royal lantern
in DF you had more power in that stuff, they tuned that back in tww
waxen oyster
vs not
waxen oyster
Idk it's just a thing i noticed
wow players are very slow to adapt to changes
they'll cite something that is 2+ years old
as current info
royal lantern
they'll cite something that is 2+ years old
people said "shadowlands has forced AP grinds for power" for the entire expansion allright
some STILL say that
waxen oyster
did SL have ap
royal lantern
wow players are dumb af
dreamy rover
its understandeable that people arent on top of all information about wow when you study other topics, work, live life idk
waxen oyster
all i remember was conduit energy
royal lantern
but people saw "currency with A = AP"
waxen oyster
could eat my whole ass
haughty flicker
you had to grind renown on alts to unlock conduits
severe meadow
Low keys are funny
dreamy rover
Low keys are funny
what the fucky
gritty laurel
i remember upgrading conduits being a huge pain in the ass
dreamy rover
what number?
severe meadow
Like a 6
waxen oyster
its understandeable that people arent on top of all information about wow when y...
idk you read one time "embellishments are bad" a few months ago
and thats it
haughty flicker
conduits were ass yeah
severe meadow
Sudden Demise heaven
hollow river
with the same embellish values
sockets are also like, giga weak now aren't they
dreamy rover
nice work
hollow river
compared to the past
waxen oyster
sockets were only big in like
royal lantern
sockets are also like, giga weak now aren't they
ye, not really big
waxen oyster
bfa
fleet pagoda
Fartonfloor bold for playing aff with no fort or tyran up
hollow river
i didn't play bfa
waxen oyster
socket was roughly
dreamy rover
we're fartonfloor fans here tbf
waxen oyster
half the stat a piece had
gritty laurel
i like to pretend that getting one of every reasonable gem color to min-max the diamond is important, but i don't even bother simming the options
hollow river
i remember in SL sockets were somewhat impactful, like 1-2%? for full sockets?
waxen oyster
yeah nowhere near bfa bad
gritty laurel
fartonfloor went up like 30-40% dps between the last screenshot and this one, dude is a fast study
waxen oyster
bfa also could have sockets on trinkets
haughty flicker
i like to pretend that getting one of every reasonable gem color to min-max the ...
it is important
if you're a gigachad and use speed gem
haughty flicker
no virgin crit gem users here
royal lantern
waxen oyster
i dont get how that enh is so low though
just drop your totem?
and press the glowy
?????
gritty laurel
the sin who dropped his ruptures and pressed CT took all the hps away
no more damage left to deal
severe meadow
a full ragnaros group
A fate worse than death
royal lantern
granted its not as bad as when i queue into
did a +11 meadery today
everything went completely fine, 3rd boss at 30% hp, 2deaths in total, 12min left on the timer, 97% trash done
then the shaman uses BL suddenly
tank asks "why bl now lol"
and the shaman just stands still, and goes on a rant how he should shut up and dont question better players
then the tank left ofc
nobody said a word for the entire run up to this point
i love Pug groups
royal lantern
like, it literally was just "why bl lol"
haughty flicker
lmao
haughty flicker
the best m+ runs are always the ones where nobody says a word
as soon as people start talking it goes to hell
royal lantern
as soon as people start talking it goes to hell
hey i sometimes make dumb jokes
waxen oyster
the best m+ runs are always the ones where nobody says a word
when i hear m+ andies talk
haughty flicker
always gotta love gromnak
royal lantern
if you dont make atleast 1 Bee pun during meadery, what are you even doing at that point
waxen oyster
idk from my experience barring s1 this expac
enh players usually have more braincells
than ele
dreamy rover
when i hear m+ andies talk
quite the logic here raid > m+ because i prefer it
waxen oyster
also tank players
dreamy rover
waxen oyster
the moment a tank player tells me his main job is to "make healer job easier" i know this guy aint got no balls
haughty flicker
if the tank doesnt pull the whole first room in mechagon i leave instantly
because i know he has no confidence
fucking coward
waxen oyster
real
royal lantern
quite the logic here raid > m+ because i prefer it
i mean, its more like
if you ever raided, you KNOW the "m+ mains" that think they are hot shit for having 400 more score
and 24/7 talk about "omg i cant wait until raid is over and i can PUSH again!!!!!!!"
and they are almost always mediocre at best
dreamy rover
when i hear m+ andies talk
argument behind this video is insane
royal lantern
because i know he has no confidence
bro i have no confidence in my own skill, why tf should the tank trust me 
dreamy rover
"youre not echo why are you pushing M+"
literally can say the exact same thing about raids
why are you trying to do mythic clears youre not going to rwf
braindead moment
haughty flicker
bro i have no confidence in my own skill, why tf should the tank trust me <:OMEG...
pull whole room, dps either perform or die
trial by fire
we either know we time the key or we go next
waxen oyster
key doesnt get new mechanics at higher levels
maybe if keys actually required you to do damage again and not just
"live oneshots"
haughty flicker
also im playing boomkin because i hate myself
dreamy rover
maybe if keys actually required you to do damage again and not just
you clearly dont play M+
haughty flicker
and that pull is the only way i can feel alive
dreamy rover
to say something like that
royal lantern
braindead moment
if somebody doesnt appear to a raid they singed up because "ITS PUSH WEEK BRO!!!!", yes you can tell them that
cus wtf are they doing
marble bane
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
waxen oyster
nowadays they just add a dozen kick/stop or die mechanics
royal lantern
and yeha, m+ dmg requirments did went WAAAY down
m+ is mostly survival.check
hell, aug was bad for dmg and played everywhere
cus it made survival more easy/possible at all
waxen oyster
i mean aug being the meta since its inception literally shows you
that its only a survival check
besides the fact like 90% of aug players are god awful
royal lantern
besides the fact like 90% of aug players are god awful
inviting a devoker is the ultimate coinflip rn
waxen oyster
No I just don't invite evokers
royal lantern
cus sooo many of them are "aug mains" that where riding the aug passenger princess train for 3patches now
waxen oyster
pres players are always perma out of range
and dev players have 0 awareness
if its a male dracthyr thats an instant decline
runic hinge
ive never seen a dev player push a defensive
waxen oyster
cus sooo many of them are "aug mains" that where riding the aug passenger prince...
So they're doing what SL healer mains did
healer existed in SL when you were doing your 10th plaguefall of the day for trinket and stood in a swirly
royal lantern
ive never seen a dev player push a defensive
based
compact quartz
Good - the spec shouldn’t exist, delete PI too even though it’s fun
dawn heath
assa is so fucking cracked on big momma or?
is there any other class that competes with us there
6.2mil dps on this bsos xD
cinder bone
Yeah a good warlock is scary
dawn heath
i actually dont know why the y buffed assa
we did not need a buff
its already doing second highest overall dps in all key levels of all publoc logged m+ runs
and its middle of the pack in raid
crazy work when they're buffing assa ele balance and ret
kinda yikes
when they're already dominating m+
raid tuning is ruining keys
and nerfing sp xddd
dawn heath
alot of people play keys this season, it doesnt have to be either or
they can do pvp tuning, when they tune them seperately
raven locust
Keys for most are a means to gear FOR raids
dapper halo
soon we will also have m+ tuning /s
dense cove
Can you send me the damage breakdown?
dawn heath
Keys for most are a means to gear FOR raids
for raid only players maybe
royal lantern
m+ brains acting as if all tuning ever is done only for raids
dawn heath
theres alot of players that feel the same way about raiding
royal lantern
dawn heath
raids are a means to an end to get gear
haughty flicker
they can do pvp tuning, when they tune them seperately
i think this opens up too much potential for weird shit
dawn heath
Can you send me the damage breakdown?
weary spear
Tuning is done based on raids generally is it not lol
dawn heath
they nerf m+ outliers occasionally
haughty flicker
if they tune abilities to do damage differently in m+ and raid you could end up with shit where your rotation in m+ and in raid might be entirely different
dawn heath
aug nerfs were certainly m+ focused
royal lantern
Tuning is done based on raids generally is it not lol
not really, its general pve tuning
people that say "they can do it for pvp!!!" are legit braindead lol
weary spear
Only if it doesn’t affect raid negatively
haughty flicker
i mean its kind of rough right
boomkin is fucking terrible on every fight except stix this raid
dawn heath
not really, its general pve tuning
people that say "they can do it for pvp!!!" ...
how is it braindead
royal lantern
they literally killed aug because of m+ btw
haughty flicker
but its also dominating in m+
weary spear
This tuning pass is a bad example obvs
dawn heath
they already have tthis in place
they already have darkness working differently for example in raids and m+
weary spear
Aug had a negative impact on raiding as well
dawn heath
they just need to tweak numbers while in key stones or in in raid
haughty flicker
they already have darkness working differently for example in raids and m+
this doesnt effect your rotation though
dawn heath
its not that difficult
royal lantern
aug was not a real problem in raids since tww
haughty flicker
its already weird enough with disc
imagine if abilities were tuned differently enough that you just had an entirely different rotation in keys than you do in raid
which im almost certain would happen
dawn heath
they could make specs alot more balanced by tuning things seperately while maintaining raid balance
its just a win win
royal lantern
its not that difficult
mate
everytime a Gamer says "just do X, its not that difficult" about literally ANYTHING
it is 20000x more difficult then they think and they should stop talking
dawn heath
just more work on their end
weary spear
I think it’s fair to say they do tune based on raid, however there is outliers sometimes
dawn heath
its pretty obvious they cant balance both, and people just love to play what they wanna play why restrict people just have certainl abilities do more/less damage in keystones/raid and u can achieve way more balance
ww monk for example
royal lantern
yep, you have no idea what you are talking about
dawn heath
and neither do you
weary spear
Lol
dawn heath
it is not difficult to do
weary spear
It’s a fair view don’t take it so personal
Like he said it would be more work. But if they did it correctly sure it’s viable
dawn heath
how dare you want things to be balanced BUHU
ITS SO DIFFICULT FOR THE DEVELOPERS WEEH WEEEH
they need to apply a aura buff on X ability in keystones
royal lantern
it is not difficult to do
"its not difficult"
~comment from a person that never did any balancing work ever
dawn heath
woww
royal lantern
its funny
dawn heath
and have you?
what makes you an expert on this opinion?
u are just talking out of your ass
royal lantern
ofc not, but im smart enough to not say "just do X its not diffcult!!!!"
dawn heath
what makes you so certain that its so hard to do when there are already mechanics in the game for this in place
well it isnt
royal lantern
thats like the guys that say "just fix bugs"
dawn heath
you can apply aura tweaking on abilities
how is it harder than that?
this is too much damage in raid but too low damage in keys?
have spining crane kick to less damge in raids but remain the same in keys
WOWOWW SO HARD
AND TECHNICAL
INSANEEE
hidden bay
Insane yapping
hollow river
it just adds an entire extra layer of complexity
royal lantern
you have literally not a single clue about the inner workings of the game
upper wraith
easy specs should be dog water dps
royal lantern
jesus fucking christ
dawn heath
you DO NOT want m+ modifiers on abilities
i absolutey want that
if it achieves balance
haughty flicker
and now you have to use spinning crane kick in entirely different ways in m+ and raid
hollow river
you think you do
dawn heath
i was just throwing out a random ability
haughty flicker
based on tuning
hollow river
if it achieves balance
thats the thing, it won't
dawn heath
it will get a whole lot CLOSER than what it is
haughty flicker
i was just throwing out a random ability
this can happen on every ability
hollow river
there's pvp modifiers on a lot of things, and more often than not its just annoying
dawn heath
perfect balance will never exist but when some specs, but buffing specs that are already meta because they suck in raidss is just so fuckign rough
ok well annoying? for what for you?
its great
hollow river
for pvpers
royal lantern
we are in frking week3 of the patch, what meta
hollow river
who?
royal lantern
when most people barely have functional gear at all lol
dawn heath
you are so insaley raid biased
if they tuned based on m+ only u wouldnt be happy either would you
hollow river
dawn heath
they're buffing moonkins
royal lantern
still have yet to provide a valid rebuttal to my point
shut up you dont play keys
dawn heath
what was your point
royal lantern
so you call him out for nonsense and dont even know what he said????
haughty flicker
if you dont know what the point was then how do you know it was nonsense
are you going to say anything useful or just say blizzard bad
weary spear
I get the point but tuning is pretty balanced in m+ right now. I’d say extremely
dawn heath
so what if it "changes" builds? who cares
weary spear
Could get title with any class this season
waxen oyster
changes builds
haughty flicker
changes entire rotations
waxen oyster
as if most players dont copy streamers
haughty flicker
on the same target count
weary spear
Warrior and monk are kinda stinky ig
haughty flicker
with hidden modifiers
hidden bay
so what if it "changes" builds? who cares
Before you keep talking you gotta work on your raid opener brother 
haughty flicker
that most players wont know
dawn heath
Before you keep talking you gotta work on your raid opener brother <:shhh:908048...
wtf are u yapping about
hidden bay
dawn heath
weirdge
dawn heath
your logs
royal lantern
I get the point but tuning is pretty balanced in m+ right now. I’d say extremely
its week3, they tune some specs to work better in raid cus they are heavy under/overperfoming there and most people dont do big m+ pushing early on when that needs some gear anyway
when raid stuff is more balanced out so we dont end with "for one armed bandit you need 6shadow priests" they will look more at m+ outliers again and do changes there, as thats also the time where more people start to push m+ more
you know, the thing we have every season
dawn heath
maybe u should work on your own opener
royal lantern
sorry, i mean i hate m+ and dont do keys, ignore me
hollow river
we're not going to start log shaming people
dawn heath
mate
hollow river
fuck off with that
dawn heath
he was calling me out
hollow river
i'm talking to both of you
dawn heath
bro is fucking dogshit at the game
hidden bay
Not sure who you looking at but that ain’t me
dawn heath
someone you linked
either way
i just play raids to get gear
my rogue is my alt
bro is mythic raiding and getting farmed by a m+ players alt who doesnt even care
i checked your logs
im doing more dps than you on most fights
xdddd
crazy
cringe
nice sprocket log
sudden brook
Lil guppy's goin crazy rn
tawdry halo
I thought whispyr was the only person allowed to act a bit unhinged
And that’s because he deals with stupid questions galore
haughty flicker
cinder bone
bruh
dawn heath
bro thinks he is good cause he decided to grief his raid playing assa on the boss when sub is fucking cracked and there is literally 1 parse and its him, how about you learn to play sub and stop griefing your raid
dawn heath
sup
dawn heath
this clown started
cinder bone
they need to make sub good in pvp only again
hollow river
those days have long since passed
royal lantern
they need to make sub good in pvp only again
outlaw m+
assa raid
sub pvp i think
the blessed time in BfA 
(it sucked lol)
hollow river
idk if sub will ever be as good as it used to be in pvp again
cinder bone
idk if sub will ever be as good as it used to be in pvp again
rogue hasnt been impressive in pvp since s1 slands
hollow river
they are more scared to let sub be good in pvp than they are about sub on that old boss in bfa
sudden brook
its just rng what specs are good at what
hollow river
ye for pve its all about fight design
sudden brook
I mean even spec design
runic hinge
idk if sub will ever be as good as it used to be in pvp again
i havent played a ton of sub but if people think sub only has damage in cds in pve they should try sub in pvp 
hollow river
i don't think its been that spec in pvp in a loooong time
royal lantern
i havent played a ton of sub but if people think sub only has damage in cds in p...
bro, legion pvp
every spec in the game could only kill during cds, legit peashooting outside of it
stuff was hilarious
runic hinge
stun bot for whatever mage spec is strong now
royal lantern
hollow river
now that they've removed Duel + nerfed its burst and buffed its consistent damage, its damn near in shambles
royal lantern
they removed duel?
hollow river
yeah
cinder bone
wow
royal lantern
weird choice lol
cinder bone
thats criminal
sudden brook
Duel was fucking bustado
cinder bone
rogue was great in pvp for 2 reasons: stuns and duel
haughty flicker
duel was cool
royal lantern
Duel was fucking bustado
yeha sure, but idk what sub even does special in PvP without it lol
hollow river
rupture damage
sudden brook
Still a stunbot
cinder bone
maybe i should roll mage and hit 2700io even though I only do 1.4m dps overall
sudden brook
Didnt sub just get mega nerfed in pvp for being too good
hollow river
no
they nerfed its burst and buffed consistent damage because it was literally AFK outside of burst
cinder bone
rogue get nerfed in pvp because people have flashbacks to classic wow getting wrecked
hollow river
doing 200k DPS while everyone else was doing 500k+
like it has been
for the past 2 expansions
it was barely even good
hollow river
pvp these days is like a dps race
trying to force the other team to fall behind on healing/dps
etc
hollow river
or warlocks
sudden brook
What sub is good at isn't what the meta wants rn
hollow river
its funny
sudden brook
huh
sudden brook
I dont understand the correlation
runic hinge
aoe stops is how you force healers to die or trinket where sub used to be able to lock down a single target really well and now half the classes can cc everything on repeat
cerulean walrus
runic hinge
i mean
sudden brook
I feel like not that many micro CCs have been added to the game
sudden brook
they have always just existed
haughty flicker
you can stay if you post a cat gif
hollow river
waxen oyster
maybe its just evoker then
haughty flicker
runic hinge
idt frost dk has always been like that
sudden brook
Frost DK has always spammed you with micro CCs in pvp
hollow river
they have always just existed
some stuff is new, like DH sigils are kinda recent or am i trippin
waxen oyster
fear
hollow river
fear
haughty flicker
fear
sudden brook
isnt it dogshit
waxen oyster
it was added with df trees
hollow river
idk if its dogshit, they def use it
runic hinge
they made fears take more damage
to break
except when i cast them they break insta
gg bad rng
haughty flicker
true
waxen oyster
my favorite cc is mortal coil
because it inherently has a tendency to path you out of healer los
hollow river
the biggest issue imo is that they nerfed a fuckload of the real CC
while also adding in a bunch of micro CC
waxen oyster
gonna be honest any season i take pvp in this game serious
warlock being good makes it 100x less fun
ripe carbon
hows mega magnet work, is it on cd with signet/house of cards or it doesnt trgigger that? or is it means that BiS is seaforium+magnet?
balmy condor
all on use trinkets share cooldown
but it doesn't matter cause you obviously cast signet/cards with deathmark
ripe carbon
ah ok
fringe spear
magnet is flexible anyway
Doesn't matter when you use it as long as it doesn't interfere with other on uses and you don't let it cap stacks
runic hinge
you just use it during lingering
after the cd from using hoc or signet
ugly trinket tbh i just wouldn't loot it
proven talon
In the wowhead opener for ST, why is it that we go ambush -> garrote -> and then directly into rupture? When I do this is it incorrect that I don’t have full combo points for that rupture then? I would’ve thought we would want a full combo point rupture for the deathmark coming up
balmy condor
you should have 6 with shrouded
or 4 without
typically we don't take shrouded
so 4 into the mut is the 5 you need
proven talon
Oh I do see now the label for the branching mutilate there. I’m really sorry for missing that! Okay, that does make me feel a lot better on that though haha. Yeah, not talented into shrouded
Thank you
weary spear
On big opener in m+ , I ambush -> garr -> rup -> rup -> mut -> garr -> CT. Here’s my question tho, because now I have DN. If FoK as my next ability only gives me 5 CP, should I build to 7 with another FoK to clear DN? Or do I just send a 5 CP envenom to get into DM+KB quicker
Only saves 1 GCD but I’d like to know what’s correct
balmy condor
yes fok to env
weary spear
Like yes get a DN envenom?
balmy condor
yes
weary spear
Ty king
balmy condor
if DN, you DN
weary spear
Heard
sudden brook
Whos bofa
rotund oak
pliant remnant
coral ibex
candid ocean
Do you all think we will start taking 2/2 viscous venoms talent with the buffs to mutilate/ambush?
zenith elm
Yes
devout ingot
anyone have a bug where their ambush doesnt switch to mutilate?
zenith elm
When, in raid or M+ settings?
balmy condor
subterfuge
zenith elm
Subterfuge
balmy condor
?
zenith elm
it doesnt switch off for 12 sec i guess?
devout ingot
subterfuge was gone
balmy condor
blindside
devout ingot
ambush was greyed out but it didnt switch to mutilate
balmy condor
idk
balmy condor
never heard of that
zenith elm
its a bug then
thick sigil
I've experienced stuff not switching with high server lag, but else nah
devout ingot
also had a weird bee bug in cinderbre where everytime i got on a bee the bar wouldnt switch and i was stuck on it not able to use skills
some weird shiz happenin tonight
balmy condor
do you have an addon or something that affects your action bars
this is starting to sound like addon bullshit
devout ingot
just puts black borders around the action bars so maybe that could be it
shy creek
this is starting to sound like addon bullshit
No this particular one is a blizzard bug
I've been hearing about it from a person at least once or twice a day
balmy condor
oh
rotund oak
oh
nice ''water'' there btw(on ur last vid)
also
belly rubs for the lord of the house
barren zenith
if my CT is usually really close in damage to spatter, could I relate that to the fact that I'm probably spending more time than needed in general dotting shit up and being dumb instead of envenom spamming?
been noticing that trend recently on my runs
barren zenith
yeah, I just noticed after peeping some top logs that they have way more spatter damage relative to CT than me in dungeons like floodgate
not sure if it's just the size of the pulls or me fucking up
thin furnace
CT amp damage per target is calculated when casted or while it runs?
sharp viper
casted
uneven marsh
guys, when is catalyst next charge ? 26/03 or 02/04 ?
thin furnace
Okkey
blazing pumice
limber lion
yeah, I just noticed after peeping some top logs that they have way more spatter...
Comparing yourself to the people doing the highest keys possible is okay, but it doesn't give you the full picture
The mobs survive much longer, so the entire KB/Deathmark/Spatter windows will land on every single mob before they perish
And they likely pull much bigger pulls than you do.
golden loom
ambush garrote rupt?
You mutilate if you dont crit with ambush
fathom flax
ty
golden loom
always build to 5+
ionic fox
Are we not shiving in giga pulls for M+?
west crown
Are we not shiving in giga pulls for M+?
depends on the build, bleed yes shiv, hybrid in cds
maiden bear
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
barren zenith
Comparing yourself to the people doing the highest keys possible is okay, but it...
fair enough, will keep that in mind. appreciate it!
weak prism
Do you ever send kingsbane solo without Deathmark on a smaller pull, when you know there will be a big pull in less than 2 minutes later?
limber lion
Sure
south drum
Do anyone know when the trinket changes will be on raidbots?
sharp viper
they are live
south drum
Alright just assume they wern't since enrgy drink/signet out simmed all the raid trinket
sharp viper
iirc you need to select latest build instead of weekly
south drum
I'm on nightly right now but might try latest
balmy condor
nightly......... might be updated?
questionably
energy drink is also very good though
might be accurate
in general just always sim latest
cause why not
astral plover
if u dont have both Eye of Kazan and House of Cards by now, are u even playing?
rocky zodiac
What about the possibility that neither of the two dropped once? 😄
heady umbra
What stats should the crafted dagger have for assasin rogue? Crit/ mastery or mastery/haste?
normal mist
Crit mastery and call it a day
golden basin
I can't figure out if mastery is better than crit
It feels like if you have more crit you get more energy so more dps ?
astral plover
Mastery>crit>haste
tall jay
!Fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
normal mist
It feels like if you have more crit you get more energy so more dps ?
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.
- Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
- Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
- Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results
golden basin
Alright thank you !
I have recently joinded a guild and during raids i feel like i m really behind even tho im using the dry shiv etc
Maybe wednesday update will change something
gentle ore
When is a good time to send racials in like Ancestral Call?
balmy condor
Macro them all to deathmark
heady umbra
**Rogue Spreadsheet - [Light Version](<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/...
Thank you
balmy condor
I have recently joinded a guild and during raids i feel like i m really behind e...
99.9% of the time when underperforming its basics like not pressing CDs and bad uptime and not going for caustic etc
The 0.5% min max from dry shiv probably ain’t tipping the scales
tawdry mica
if u dont have both Eye of Kazan and House of Cards by now, are u even playing?
Bro I am trying to get them I swear
balmy condor
Eye of kezan feels pretty bait ngl
golden basin
99.9% of the time when underperforming its basics like not pressing CDs and bad ...
I will try harder then, thank you
balmy condor
I see people running that shit in m+ and it fills me with despair
agile kestrel
EoK, really only good in 5+ min fights
balmy condor
Ye
agile kestrel
if it doesn't go longer it's terrible
tawdry mica
Yeah I want that one for raiding for sure. I'm using the magnet trinket for M+ and it's going really well
It hits really hard sometimes
merry swift
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
serene mason
@balmy condor was this the reason we couldnt cleave adds of bloodhound for example?
Makes it easier for me to understand.
royal lantern
<@167090536602140682> was this the reason we couldnt cleave adds of bloodhound f...
yes
twilit flint
is blessed weapon grip the option for us? or something else?
marble hemlock
the answer to that question, like many other questions, is in the pins and/or guides 
twilit flint
I didnt see the option for one of the Reagents on WoW head sorry,
marble hemlock
twilit flint
sigh.. thank you
marble hemlock
twilit flint
with dawnthread that would be on another piece of crafted right?
agile kestrel
brother it can't go on something that's not crafted
subtle kiln
what if, and hear me out, you craft the dawn thread, loot the item you want it on and send both to the crafter?
marble hemlock
with dawnthread that would be on another piece of crafted right?
yes, in order to apply 2 embellishments, youd want 2 crafted items
marble hemlock
id also not really recommend playing blessed unless you exclusively play m+
twilit flint
mostly M+ heroic raid once a week so
lime junco
ha anyone beaten the ?? underpin?
desert vault
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
white holly
22 priory kills in the past two days and I feel like everyone on the realm has gotten the trinket except me
warm vortex
22 priory kills in the past two days and I feel like everyone on the realm has g...
I feel your pain
about to do run 19 of ToP for a ring
Gotten every drop minus 1 ring
royal lantern
22 priory kills in the past two days and I feel like everyone on the realm has g...
stay strong brother
dapper halo
finally got priory trinket
white holly
I've gotten every other piece from priory like twice
dapper halo
20+ runs it took
warm vortex
I've gotten every other piece from priory like twice
Same
Well i haven't gotten one of the rings yet
YET
Also 20 runs is p good
highest i've had was only 40 for grace
dapper halo
yes p-chan
white holly
and i think there were three separate runs that I see two people loot the trinket
warm vortex
i remember people had like
100+ runs for grace
dapper halo
and i got it straight away, didnt have to beg for it or so
warm vortex
Funnily enough the
Signet trinket
Doesn't sim higher than my sus energy drink
Might be because the BM build atm doesn't use CDs
I asusme signet is just a mastery/crit bomb fopr assa
shell kraken
Does anyone have a tips for WA for tracking https://www.wowhead.com/spell=457056/lingering-darkness?
static glacier
I would have prefered the game not give me the ring at all
If it makes it any better champ track is completely fine
nimble vector
You don’t necessarily need a WA if you track death mark CD
static glacier
You shouldn’t be sending myth crests for anything above 4/6 hero which is equal to max champ
On a low budget slot like ring
Esp since gally ring replaces
golden loom
yeah only thing that I have sent to 6/6 hero is priory + seaforium
rest is staying at 4/6 forever
warm vortex
If it makes it any better champ track is completely fine
Doesnt sim higher i thinik
royal lantern
i hate boomkins so much
royal lantern
first boss darkflame, thinking "man why does this take so long????"
just to then see that the boomkin did 60m dmg on the boss cus that frking animal was just spamming starfall the entire fight and nothing else
i hate boomkin players
marble hemlock
i hate boomkins so much
who doesnt
marble hemlock
first boss darkflame, thinking "man why does this take so long????"
just to the...
based, those adds need to die
spice surge
first boss darkflame, thinking "man why does this take so long????"
just to the...
Even the ancient Greeks spoke about the unethical pad of the boomkins, its a well known and documented phenomenon
marble hemlock
a little known fact is that the twelth and final labor of hercules was not the slaying of the cerberus, but the slaying of a boomkin.
early greek mythology simply portrayed the boomkin as a three-headed beast
tall jay
So, I did a 9 top as sub cause someone said that it profiles better for it but when but I wasn’t able to complete it cause of a ddos attack last night, but compared to the same 9 as SIN rogue (bleed) I did way more dps overall? Is there a reason why ppl say that sub is better in ToPand WS?
fleet pagoda
i wouldn't overthink it. if you're better/more comfortable at sin, you'll always have better results with it. could be skewed a bit with bleed build on a key that doesn't have fortified active, as well.
young knot
hey . can someone share the bleed talents here?
harsh harbor
think theres a section on the wowhead guide
Pretty sure whispyr keeps it up to date
young knot
kk
fallow notch
Guys is Bleed build supposed to be so much better before getting to high Keys? I did 2 Keys today with hybrid build and 1 with Bleed, my dps Just bumped by 600k
pastel vessel
what do you guys feel like is a good % for haste? i know it isnt as important but i feel like 5% is super low for it
royal lantern
early greek mythology simply portrayed the boomkin as a three-headed beast
three-headed beast implies 3 brains
red schooner
what do you guys feel like is a good % for haste? i know it isnt as important bu...
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.
- Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
- Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
- Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results
red schooner
In a nutshell, don't aim for specific stats just sim upgrades and go from there
past roost
!macro
young knot
whats the best talents for dealing good st in m+? im trying everything and still lacking in st
pastel vessel
Well yeah i was just asking how different people felt with different % of haste. I know about all that
bronze plover
pastel vessel
Did anyone ever made a 675 everforged dagger instead of stabber?
i did that last season with 636
red schooner
whats the best talents for dealing good st in m+? im trying everything and still...
I think there's an alternative m+ talent builds on the wowhead guide that leans a bit more into st damage
frigid smelt
i did that last season with 636
Anyway you could get a refund by support ticket?
harsh harbor
Anyway you could get a refund by support ticket?
I've heard no, worth a shot though
royal lantern
whats the best talents for dealing good st in m+? im trying everything and still...
press N->respec sub
pastel vessel
Anyway you could get a refund by support ticket?
nope i got told to pound sand basically
frigid smelt
I've heard no, worth a shot though
yeah, on their support website they say the dont do that, but Ill definitely gonna try
frigid smelt
nope i got told to pound sand basically
Ouch 🥲
wise whale
Yeah just accept your dog boss dam in keys tbh
harsh harbor
you wont do good boss dmg as assa in m+
it is getting a slight buff tuesday, so theres that
wise whale
3% of beans is still beans
pastel vessel
but making the wrong dagger is also why i hold onto an extra hero track dagger out of paranoia now
frigid smelt
but making the wrong dagger is also why i hold onto an extra hero track dagger o...
I was playing outlaw before, but really didnt enjoy it
way too much rsi for the low damage output I had
harsh harbor
but making the wrong dagger is also why i hold onto an extra hero track dagger o...
weapon damage is the most important, so probably still use it?
sim it maybe?
pastel vessel
nah making an int dagger is useless
frigid smelt
sim it maybe?
The first thing it says when you sim it is; You got the wrong main stat
this is how I found out aswell haha
royal lantern
weapon damage is the most important, so probably still use it?
caster weapons have almost 0 weapon dmg
frigid smelt
Will try to get my 60 crests back and wait for wednesday I guess xd
harsh harbor
ahh really? Ive never been in the situation
royal lantern
cus, well, casters dont hit stuff with their weapon
Int gear has more Int compared to strenght/agility
cus casters dont use weapon dmg
frigid smelt
maybe find another dagger in M+
harsh harbor
Well if it makes you feel any better, I made a sword and went outlaw till KS murdered me a dozen times.
royal lantern
your fault for playing outlaw
harsh harbor
Absolutely
royal lantern
stinky warrior spec
frigid smelt
I love the concept of outlaw but daym, the damage is so low for the effort
royal lantern
outlaws dmg is not low
harsh harbor
its fun, I really dig the crackshot gameplay. KS is fucking butt though
royal lantern
its desing is just a bit weird for how blizz desings wow very often
quasi coyote
signet or house for m+?
royal lantern
cus wow HEAVY favors burst dmg
royal lantern
signet or house for m+?
sim
frigid smelt
outlaws dmg is not low
then I suck
harsh harbor
its def solid damage, if you can stick the killing sprees
cosmic pewter
So im a returning player. Started outlaw becuase of the ranged fun advantage Ive never experienced in the past. But now Im 80 and its time to get serious. For PvE its showing sub and asn at the more dominant specs in every group. What are you guys suggesting?
harsh harbor
What you enjoy the most
spice spire
Whichever you enjoy more
The damage difference isn’t too far off
Either way so play what brings joy
harsh harbor
unless youre after cutting edge or pushing 18s, then it might matter? Dunno havent been in that space in ages
cosmic pewter
what i enjoy the most is joining a group and people NOT going, "aah sht, hes that spec"
cosmic pewter
cant help myself been a rogue since vanilla
golden loom
best way to get past that is just do big dam
dense ruin
with subterfuge, do I use vanish when there is 12 seconds of DM or 6?
harsh harbor
if I was worried about being accepted into pugs, id probably not play a rogue at all. That being said, I havent had an issue on sin or law
unreal tide
with subterfuge, do I use vanish when there is 12 seconds of DM or 6?
you look in the mirror and ask yourself "why do i have subterfuge"
unreal tide
for m+ you'll have it
dense ruin
so do I use vanish the last 6 seconds or 12 during deathmark xd
unreal tide
You're more often using vanish to re-bleed everything than cranking DM, if you're trying to get the MA buff it's 12 (6+6)IIRC
dense ruin
was thinik in st
golden loom
well vanishing during dm/kb is for master assassin, you vanish at 6 seconds usually cause you want to cover it the most of the end of kingsbane, but with sutberfuege you get to cover 12 seconds of kb instead
burnt star
so do I use vanish the last 6 seconds or 12 during deathmark xd
Theres a nice weakaura with a timeline of when to vanish/shiv
golden loom
so yes you vanish a couple seconds after casting kingsbane
burnt star
Its adaptive to your talent set up too
harsh harbor
Theres a nice weakaura with a timeline of when to vanish/shiv
got a link?
pastel vessel
are you telling me ive been doing kingsbane wrong all season so far
unreal tide
what have you been doing 🤨?
pastel vessel
the same way in dragonflight
cerulean walrus
cloud basin
Any thoughts on if they'll change lingering darkness so it doesn't work with trinkets lol?
harsh harbor
my school of thought with wow for 20 years is dont expect changes until its changed
runic hinge
Any thoughts on if they'll change lingering darkness so it doesn't work with tri...
it only works with 1 trinket as it is right now
and it's probably an oversight
spice surge
Theres more than 1 thing that does nature damage
golden loom
It worked with mad queens mandate for sub right?
oblique jackal
Is there a world where we don't take KB in st or m+?
cerulean walrus
M+ bleed build doesn’t take KB
winged sun
@spice spire yo
2 set 2 set sims less is the 5 stack thing in raidbots already
or
spice surge
Theyll be live on raidbots when theyre live ingame
winged sun
so if it sims less then it sims less
right
im confused since its simming less than a normal piece
hearty reef
Zeross already infecting sin chat
Bro is unstoppable 
The strongest spec hopper of today
obsidian girder
how annoying is it going from sub to assa spec ? statwise, crafting gear etc ?
runic terrace
Theres a nice weakaura with a timeline of when to vanish/shiv
You could use @balmy condor 's WA in which Shiv glows when you should use it
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
runic terrace
Top one
gleaming bough
Does anybody have the new build for the buffs for next week already?
spice surge
how annoying is it going from sub to assa spec ? statwise, crafting gear etc ?
Doesnt matter much, you can play sin just fine with sub gear
obsidian girder
alright. thanks
runic hinge
The strongest spec hopper of today
the strongest fotms get the hardest battles
cursive marsh
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
gentle chasm
Hey everyone! Can anyone recommend any WeakAuras or other addons that would allow me to signal my group, especially the tank, when I enter Stealth? I want to avoid any accidental chain pulling. Something straightforward and effective would be ideal. Thanks in advance for any tips!
copper hazel
first tip, chain pulling is fine, you dont need to restealth
lavish geyser
is there a way to do talent tree comparisons? like you would do, with gear compare
silk sundial
Yeah. At the bottom of top gear you can select different talent builds
spice surge
No point using gear compare nowadays either, top gear just does it better and more efficiently
clear atlas
kings/queens...buff making sin great again?
lavish geyser
No point using gear compare nowadays either, top gear just does it better and mo...
I just dont have premium, and sometimes I just get too many iterations
Like I cant do top gear for the 3 items in my vault
spice surge
You absolutely can
You probably just have somehting like "replace and sim all the gems" enabled that ramps up the iterations
lavish geyser
i selected 3, and it said I had about 50k, too many iterations
maybe yeah
this is what I get. apparently I still have my old data from when I tried last time.
a little more then 50k
spice surge
Well ye but you still probably have all the gems and enchants enabled
soft surge
i got dagger and wrists and yea not sure
spice surge
Sim yourself and it will tell you 
But likely unless youve gotten mythic tier pieces its probably fine to craft
severe meadow
You’d want Jastor
soft surge
wat dat
severe meadow
The ring from Gally
lavish geyser
is it ever going to be worth dropping cyrce's circlet?
soft surge
oh yea
severe meadow
is it ever going to be worth dropping cyrce's circlet?
As of right now no
But they could always change it
silk sundial
I'll be crafting a neck next week. Sims the highest for my toon, bit sin and sub. The 4 neck options this tier kinda suck
severe meadow
If unchanged we’ll be using it in season 3 lol
lavish geyser
got myth track fleshfused circle. so dont rly know what to craft. just some primary stat slot ig
lavish geyser
can you do that without premium?
lavish geyser
you dont have 4-peice yet?
severe meadow
4pc sims lower unless you have nearly all myth tier
lavish geyser
or?
severe meadow
Until Tuesday lol
soft surge
1 mith track 3 658 heroic
lavish geyser
lower then 2p2p i assume
lavish geyser
but it doesnt get better right? its just relatively better
silk sundial
And yeah you can do droptimizer without premium
lavish geyser
what is that?
severe meadow
But it won’t matter Tuesday anyway
lavish geyser
if its easy I might as well do it
severe meadow
You just go to blizzards site and go to the item restore stuff, you can get back items you lost / deleted / sold
ebon steppe
Is fatebound strong enough now？
lavish geyser
You just go to blizzards site and go to the item restore stuff, you can get back...
nice, which peices are preferred?
severe meadow
You'd have to sim. Mine went from Shoulders / Legs to Hands / Legs with different ilvls
ebon steppe
Our 2pc from season 1 is very strong
Was
golden loom
well it still is until reset
severe meadow
Mine was a 50-60k dps difference
lavish geyser
what %
severe meadow
/Shrug , I've swapped to 4pc for awhile
lavish geyser
/Shrug , I've swapped to 4pc for awhile
2p2p is a dps loss for me
severe meadow
2p2p is a dps loss for me
The power of simming
lavish geyser
indeed
hollow wren
Guys, can anyone help me with opening rotation on multiple targets?
Ambush main target, garrote, rupture, crimson tempest, switch targets, garrote, rupture, back to main target, multilate if max cp envenom, kings bane? Something like that?
hollow wren
Thats one thing I`d like to know, if I grrote+rupture the same target, not swapping
coral ibex
i swear every new player thinks they need to swap despite the guides all saying your bleeds have smart cleave
cinder geode
Could I get a log review on one armed bandit from anyone, please? not sure if I need a separate thread or something
coral ibex
!carnage
prisma monolithBOT
Indiscriminate Carnage Targetting and Swapping
TLDRMouseovers/Target swapping is optimal on 6 target, or 8+ targets, but not necessarily required
- The 2 Bleeds spread by carnage are smart and will prioritize mobs without the bleed. If everything already has bleeds it'll apply randomly
- You as the character are still casting the bleed against your target like normal, this is why people will sometimes use mouseover macros or swap targets
Swapping targets is situationally better, but can be ignored if you're having difficulties with it. Take 5 mob aoe as an example, your first garrote cast will apply to 3 targets (your target + 2 more). Regardless of if you swap or not, your second cast of garrote will hit your target, and then apply 2 more garrotes, prioritizing the mobs that do not have garrote. In very large aoe pulls (12 or more), a standard opener (garrote-garrote-rupture-rupture-garrote-garrote) will only apply 9 garrotes (3+2+2+2) and 5 ruptures (3+2) if you do not swap, losing you 3 garrotes and a rupture.
It is technically worse, but the situations in which you lose bleeds aren't very common; the lost ruptures/garrotes don't contribute much to your already flooded energy, you don't get additional scent of blood stacks, etc. The loss is purely the extra damage from those bleeds.
coral ibex
just hit one guy
hollow wren
Do the new applications go to targets that dont have it, thus not wasting
coral ibex
cleave off the one guy
dusky maple
whats the dps loss on not being able to get restealth due to chain pulling?
hollow wren
Now, about when to use multilate so I have caustic spatter
runic hinge
whats the dps loss on not being able to get restealth due to chain pulling?
better for the rest of the group to chain and also if you have bleeds already running. you have scent stacks and full energy to apply more bleeds