assassination

[strange sleet]

okok

[robust axle]

I still dont get it tho

[golden loom]

stats are stats

and they surely do stuff

[unreal fern]

same, I tried to sim some crit/mastery/haste gear but my "sub" gear with mastery/vers is simming better for sin

[shy creek]

You'll get envenom atl evel 22 apparently, so I suppose just cast slice and dice until level 22

That said, rogue is one of the worst leveling experiences in general, so you'll have a rough time playing it until much later on

[strange python]

I have my racial anyway as well haha

[golden loom]

rogue leveling = dungeonfinder and hope to get lvl 11 monks in the run

[wicked zodiac]

are you guys thinking sin is gonna be better than sub with the buffs?

[dapper cradle]

Literally just spam timewalking until 80. There is no point in overthinking sub 80 gameplay

[long pollen]

it's so fast now

[golden loom]

lvling 70-80 with herb/mining goes hard tho

[shy creek]

In single target, we are still behind, in Aoe we have been ahead

[strange sleet]

It kinda already is imo. Even with no buffs

[golden loom]

done that on like 4 chars now

[strange python]

Why can't i see TW on my dungeons?

[shy creek]

What level are you?

[strange python]

Like 15

Yeah 15

[golden loom]

wait where the fuck is timewalking

[shy creek]

You should be able to do timewalking, unless its gone this week

[strange python]

Nooooo 😭

[dapper cradle]

Bro just made a character 10 mins ago and is already hitting rogue disc for rotation advice

[strange sleet]

check calendar for timewalking events

[dapper cradle]

[strange python]

Not rotation advice, just here to talk about rogues and then later talk bout it

[spice spire]

Timewalking isn’t every week

Just during Timeways

It is delve week

[somber fractal]

is that noggenfogger trinket sim bait or can it be used with signet?

[strange python]

Timewalking is boring but worth it.

[shy creek]

I just boost characters to 70 using the people in trade chat iskaara

If you do enough of it with them, they discount you pretty heavily

[spice spire]

Leveling isn’t too too bad imo I just natty send it

But I’ve also not had to since I did 6 80s pretty early on

[strange python]

I forgot how I got this..

[hexed frost]

Nerf AoE, buff ST.

It's not that hard blizzard just do it

[spice spire]

Very nice

[spice spire]

I mean they kind of did

Because outside of ambush and mut

[indigo mulch]

I think the noggen trinket is getting fixed right?

[spice spire]

What else do you buff that doesn’t effect our aoe

[spice spire]

That’s what solo said iirc

[indigo mulch]

👍

[strange python]

Does envenom replace a skill?

[vestal mauve]

what's the purpose of the buff they give, 3% is kinda nothing

[strong wing]

This boss is literally unkillable as solo rogue in 11 delve xD

[haughty flicker]

uh

[spice spire]

The buffs end up being like 5.5 st and 4.5 in dungeons

[haughty flicker]

just kill the tentacles

[spice spire]

That’s not nothing

[haughty flicker]

lol

[strong wing]

I get oneshoted lul

[indigo mulch]

5.7% increase

[vestal mauve]

i feel like assa falls behind sub and outlaw this season

[spice spire]

5.7 is also ttb over AP which you wouldn’t do in a lot of the raid fights

Easy to say 5.5 to avoid the actually moments

[indigo mulch]

I mean if we slap 5.7% on the top logs we will be ahead of sub and on par with outlaw on a lot of fights. Don't quote me I just compared top log vs top log and is by no way how you should do it.

[strange python]

Does it matter if i do follower dungeons?

[royal lantern]

huh

[hearty seal]

no? I killed it today without any trouble
what's your Brann doing

[golden loom]

Need to stop worrying about which spec does the most damage and start worrying about getting some bitches

can I get an amen @spice spire

[haughty flicker]

no

[strong wing]

Na it is, i tried w brann tank and he is 100% useless

[hearty seal]

true and real

[hearty seal]

tank brann is trash for DPS

[strong wing]

healer 10 times better

[hearty seal]

use healer

[strong wing]

anyway our solo content is horrible

[robust axle]

Holy shit KB feels so shit outside DM windows in m+ XD

[strong wing]

I'm playing dh and delves feel just way better

[hearty seal]

I mean, yeah, it ain't great but I haven't had any problems recently clearing 11 delves

[royal lantern]

tank brann is supposed to be used by healer

90% of his passives are based around you healing him

like, the far majority of his kit literally needs the player to be a healer lol

[strange sleet]

I try to skip as much as possible while delving tbh

[hearty seal]

think it replaces eviscerate at level 20?

[strange python]

Eviscerate, okay, thanks.

[spice spire]

Amen brother uwucutegirl

[buoyant herald]

This is why we drop it entirely and go bleed build 😎

[static glacier]

you tried focusing the adds? do you have healer brann

[strange python]

What does that exactly mean?

[royal lantern]

KB by itself is not really THAT hard hitting yes

[spice spire]

We have damaging and non damaging poisons

This effects the latter

[royal lantern]

stuff like cripping poisons slow effect/atrophic poisons dmg reduction are 20% stronger

[spice spire]

(Slow, melee hits, and damage reduction from hits)

[robust axle]

Just took the m+ build on whispyrs guide, it takes KB

[strange python]

Ahh

[golden loom]

For example Athropic poison goes from 3% damage reduction to 3,6% reduction

[spice spire]

Scroll down check bleed

[strong wing]

I managed to kite him throwing knives and he doesnt hit you if you are out of range, idk if its intended or not but i was chilling throwing knives and rupturing cts every 20 secs xD

[robust axle]

Ah, thanks. Is Shiv used outside DM windows in this build?

[spice spire]

Yeah AP buffs bleeds

Bottom left talent

Sorry

[robust axle]

Yea I noticed, just wanted to know how I use shiv most effectively in m+ with the bleed build

[tough trail]

doenst shiv spread nowadays or did I get that wrong?

[spice spire]

When you Ct

[spice spire]

Same talent arterial precision

[buoyant herald]

Most fun time is to use it is unethically when mobs are in execute range

To proc demise

[robust axle]

Is the opener the same as descibed on the Wowhead article, or do you do somethign different know KB isnt there? Mostly wondering after the vanish part

[desert vault]

was going to play around with the bleed build on wowhead while i farm for trinkets that don't exist, but it has splatter instead of internal bleeding, is that right?

ok, I will probably go back to the hybrid eventually, but was just curious

[dense cove]

Would you all consider the bleed build the best if you are already geared just farming 7s to help folks blast for some heroic pieces?

[winged quail]

bleed is way better in low keys imo

[storm forum]

even without all the extra poison stuff in the center of the tree, envenom (and KB if you like that variation) is still big so it's good to spatter them

[dense cove]

Do the rules for using CT differ when playing bleed build?

[storm forum]

you can CT in single target with bleed build

cause we're not taking all the env synergy stuff in the middle of the tree

[strong wing]

Any tips for this trio? xD

[robust axle]

How does the opener/CD windows vary compared to the KB version? And is Vanish used pre DM if you need to setup during a chainpull?

[manic quartz]

start with evasion, stack up dwarwen medicine and keep it up and youre literally immortal

[strong wing]

Already tried but this guys are the police

[manic quartz]

are these the guys that kick you in the nuts

i've yet to still face mobs that i cant just faceroll in delves

[strong wing]

this are the ones that start channeling theirselfes to boost and dmg you

even if u kick them they start casting 0.5 after kick

[manic quartz]

sap one of them, nuke one with CD's

youre using healer brann right?

[strong wing]

ye

trying random curios rn

[manic quartz]

the one where you kick bombs to mobs to do dmg does insane dmg

but curios are meh whatever , all you need is the heal potion that he throws

https://wago.io/G_lNbsJxe/ is handy to keep track of the dwarwen medicine

[storm forum]

Yeah I like to make sure one vanish charge is sync'd-ish with DM if possible. Openers and CD windows should be similar. For trash opener should be the same, get bleeds up with IC, CT, spam spin+env on spatter target, reapply CT and maintain 5 ruptures as needed if the pull goes long. DM used on prio target when available. On bosses/ST just the same but maintain CT (might let it drop during DM, I don't remember)

[desert vault]

well yeah bleed is fun in 7s, jeez

just afk on bosses, but trash is like ... what trash?

so bleed build up until like 10s? I pug a lot, so feel like hybrid will be more valueable in groups with no organization and stuff

[tall jay]

All I do is bleed

[grave osprey]

Bleed is still better overall in 10s too.

But if you want boss dmg, hybrid.

[desert vault]

huh ok, guess will see with the buffs next week that was my first time doing it in a 7 farming for pacemaker and yeah it pumped pretty hard

Flood is ok for it too since first two bosses are multi target

[strong wing]

A bit difficult when you get meleed by 3m dmg xD

[grave osprey]

Ive seen CasualAddict run the bleed build in a 15 and still topping meters

[manic quartz]

whats ur ilvl

[strong wing]

635, managed to do it timing the potions but holy fuck

[foggy flume]

Is Signet Bis if you cant get House of Cards ?

[gritty laurel]

they're pretty nearly identical as long as you can balance stats to make mastery your highest for signet

[foggy flume]

That's what I thought, thanks !

[grand trail]

almost forgot how evenom goes hard shees

[strange sleet]

It kinda depends on your group's DPS, for hybrid the pulls have to last long enough for KB to do it's thing. Bleed build is the safest choice in general.

[strong wing]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[timber meadow]

im a little confused by the talent change pin - are we not already running twist the knife? In order to pickup 2/2 vv, id just need to drop ma and imp gar.. if I drop arterial im not sure where it'd go

this is my current spec tree for st

(ignore spatter lol)

[earnest remnant]

Tiny toxic blade

[indigo sphinx]

You will be able to take tiny toxic blade for pure ST

[earnest remnant]

is TTB

[timber meadow]

oh jesus

kept reading that as ttk

lol thx

i see so cleave raid build will just be spatter+arterial and st will be ttb+internal bleed (keeping vv for both - just swapping arterial/ttb depending)

[indigo sphinx]

Roughly yeah, will probably depend on fight a bit what you take

TTB vs AP is small for ST

Whispyr did a good video if you are interested

[timber meadow]

oh cool, I haven't watched much from whysper id be open to it

he just use his name on youtube?

[golden loom]

Feels like anywhere you can get any kind of AP value it should be better so it should be everything other than Lockestock

[golden loom]

theres a link to the video in the pins

[timber meadow]

yeah all the bosses cept lockenstock have good spatter value

[hardy rapids]

First run on a 7 lol

[cinder geode]

I was using hybrid, I thought it was the standard, I should be using bleed build even in 12+ keys?

[golden loom]

you can probably play whichever you like better

[nova shadow]

Guys are you having trouble getting into groups I have been applying for 30 minutes for priory 6-7-8 and everyone declines me, I am 651 with decent setup

[coral ibex]

wow thats crazy

i'm shocked

[cinder geode]

651 is a pretty standard ilvl theres like a million people like that

[coral ibex]

651 is a 612 from last season btw

[nova shadow]

yes but 6-7 are total blast

[coral ibex]

were you taking 612's into 6/7/8 keys

be honest with urself

or were you taking 620's

[golden loom]

atleast next week its gonna look better when we can drop 2 639 pieces

[nova shadow]

When I was doing my keys I took 640-650 but now am stuck with top 10

[coral ibex]

i'm not disagreeing that those keys are super easy

i'm just saying you gotta think about it from the rando lfg key holder POV

[nova shadow]

like you can easily pump 2.5 overall with 645

and thats a blast for 7s

[spice surge]

Ofc

But if theres a 651 rogue applying and a 656 rogue applying

Which one do you pick?

[coral ibex]

yea the issue is just lfg requiring you to have timed 12's to join their 7

which is just how lfg works

[golden loom]

make keys up to +10 soloq

[royal lantern]

most people i see in pugs cant even pump 2,2million overall with 658

how tf should i know that somebody knows what they are doing? espacially when most good people are higher score/higher ilvl allready

[severe sparrow]

Lpt run your own keys

[golden loom]

or just make keys never deplete

[royal lantern]

i cant imagine anything worse then "solo Q" m+

like

holy shit

absolute giga hell

[golden loom]

I mean LFG is a glorified soloq anyways

[royal lantern]

it isnt

what the hell man

[hardy rapids]

tell me about it, I would play way more if I didnt have to soloq mythic+

you gotta just pray

[nova shadow]

I dont have a guild guess next step would be to find a decent guild to play iwth

its impossible getting into 7-8s

even tho I have timed all of them on 7 or 8

[cinder geode]

thats first step solo q keys on ur lonesome is pretty miserable

only option is just doing ur own key

[royal lantern]

do your own key (and then you only invite overqualifed people aswell, be honest with yourself mate) or play with guildmates

[severe sparrow]

I had to dust off my 635 mw to make it capable of healing heroic raid this week and damn the first rook 3 i got into made me think it was a mistake. The 6 i did was way easier cuz the tank knew how to press buttons

[royal lantern]

99% of problems in WoW are solved by "play with friends" yes

[nova shadow]

my friend is playing 13 keys he doesnt want me in hahaha

[royal lantern]

what kind of friend doesnt help a buddy pushing their character up a bit lol

[nova shadow]

The one with a kid and very limited time I guess

[hearty reef]

cashout during shivs

no cashout during shivs

[chilly marsh]

raidbots is updated for trinkets buff?

[spice surge]

yes

[cloud basin]

So is it gonna be house of cards/Signet and seaforium/magnet?

[robust axle]

Cards > Signet on same ilevel

[strange sleet]

@balmy condor I just watched the video. For "light" cleave fights like Vexie and Rik, do we still drop garrote and MA like in pure ST? Or is it the same but with caustic and arterial?

[cloud basin]

Yeah that's why I put the slash, it's either or

[golden loom]

I mean Viscious Venoms add caustic damage

[strange sleet]

Yes but idk how that relates to numbers. I guess it's not much of a difference but I'm curious

Also, Stix build is the same or do we change anything?

[golden loom]

Imp Garrote = single target only, MA = damage during burst

[timber meadow]

prob just the one with higher rio and/or raid progression. I hardly ever look at ilevel if im bein honest

[haughty flicker]

im not inviting a rogue to keys lmao

who do you think i am

[timber meadow]

assa rogue is solid tbh, think there's more keys id play assa in than sub

its very clearly behind in specific dungeons but for the most part i think its a solid choice

[lyric crater]

dum questing while playing the bleed build in M+ do i really want to use CT in boss fights

[golden loom]

yep

[lyric crater]

just feel wrong lol but ok

[dense cove]

If we’ve crafted two items are we supposed to get a spark somehow this week?

I’ve crafted two items and don’t have a half spark. But somehow a buddy of mine has a half spark

[coral ibex]

there's a quest at brann that gives one

did you also claim the one from the catalyst guy

[dense cove]

Oh maybe I haven’t done the one from brann. Thanks

[dawn seal]

what is this

[fallow canopy]

open the log and you'll see some wonderful things

[hearty reef]

[runic hinge]

everyone dead

[slate egret]

hi everyone, i'm a new player to wow and have been trying to play assa rogue but i still do very little damage overall. I've read multiple guides and watched a ton of videos but i cannot seem to improve :/ does someone here offer coaching of some sort or something similar?

[golden loom]

Got a log?

[fallow canopy]

there's a lot of fuckery going on on that log

[slate egret]

i am really really new to wow, i don't even know what a log is or how to get one

i barely know about weakauras and macros

🥲

[runic hinge]

hell yeah, new blood

[golden loom]

nice nice, what kind of content have you been doing?

[gritty merlin]

!ui

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[slate egret]

well, some friends have invited me to mythics+ and we sometimes go together to kill raid bosses in normal difficulty. I've been trying to do delves but by myself i die everytime against a delve 8 boss

[golden loom]

Level 8 delves are not really a pushover while gearing to be fair, but they are a good source of gear

[viscid spear]

Would you say Wax Whistle is better than Eye for M+?

[golden loom]

personally I started last season, and I was doing delves with a friend so that is also a option, you dont have to solo them

[spice surge]

If your group plays around eye its by far the best trinket. If not then its kinda mid and the cart might be better

[severe meadow]

Parses locked in finally

[spice surge]

Just dont be outside of combat for long

[strange sleet]

Go to the dummys and just do your rotation properly again and again until you don't have to think much about it. If you go to raidbots and simulate a single target fight, you can scroll down and see the rotation the simulator is doing. Copying that is a nice an easy way to start doing some dmg

and ofc you need an adecuate interface

so work on that too

[proven talon]

Im certain this is from my lack of understanding in how serrated bone spike works, but in single target builds does bonespike/doomblade (I heard doomblade is meh on its own) amount to much? Would two talent points there possibly be better spent elsewhere in maybe like shrouded suffocation/improved poison? Idk 20% garrote damage doesn’t seem negligible and I never felt like bone gives me much in meters

[golden loom]

Well since bonespike and doomblade both are bleed effects you also get lethal dose benefits from them

idk why it replied to the other message, stupid discord

[past oracle]

We playable now with tuning?

[strange sleet]

no, still the worst spec in the game

[marble hemlock]

we were playable before already

[severe meadow]

Yeah but you gotta play Outlaw, no other choice

[marble hemlock]

a fate worse than death

[past oracle]

Was gonna open vault as outlaw

Now dunno

[severe meadow]

It's over

We lost another one boys

[past oracle]

Got benched last week for not switching to adds on coin boy

[proven talon]

Oh okay, I’ll look into that. Is that primarily why they’re seemingly universally taken?

[severe meadow]

Like you mean mythic bandit, right

[coral ibex]

as assa?

HUH

we do negative damage when forced to hard swap

[past oracle]

I told them that

They said go sub

[slate egret]

i feel like that's part of the problem, i have read guides on how to do the rotation correctly and i even wrote it down lmao, but after the opener i think i just get genuinely confused. According to one video guide that I watched, it's -ambush -garrote - rupture -fan of knives -build to 5 combo points -envenom -deathmark - shiv -kingsbane -thistle tea -shiv in the 8s window of kingsbane -vanish -garrote

but i get confused in the rotation in the sense of, when i get vanish and i get the out of stealth buff, i only need to spam empowered garrote and then use rupture and envenom as finishers to consume the deathstalkers mark ? (of course it depends on the situation) and then only envenom with the darkest night proc but does this sound okay?

[coral ibex]

are you on mythic?

[past oracle]

No

[severe meadow]

[coral ibex]

they want you to swap sub for heroic bandit

[fleet pagoda]

[coral ibex]

[past oracle]

Yea tell me about it

[coral ibex]

that's wild

[severe meadow]

Find a new guild brother

[coral ibex]

you have my sympathies

[golden loom]

currently playing outlaw

[severe meadow]

My respect for you... Dusted...

[coral ibex]

no

[golden loom]

its the BIS transmog farming spec what can I say

[coral ibex]

i think you're making this way too complicated

[severe meadow]

Swords do go crazy

I envy it

[golden loom]

4x grapples go hard

[severe meadow]

Shadowstepping into CoC dino beam even harder

[timber meadow]

do they not just move the boss onto melee add?

[coral ibex]

in ST you just keep your bleeds (garrote/rupture) up and spam envenoms, building to 7 when you have darkest night

[past oracle]

I told them to do that

[golden loom]

I swear outlaw has to be better on Gallywix just because of how fried shadowstep is there

[fleet pagoda]

practice the opener by itself until you're comfortable with. opener, stop combat, stealth, do it again until the muscle memory is locked in. learn it in bite sized pieces homie. it's easier than trying to get a perfect singular run on dummies when learning

[severe meadow]

Yeah, step was still putting me like 20-30 feet away from Gally

[coral ibex]

step is turbo cooked on gally

[past oracle]

Also benched on heroic cage boss - real pita as sin is heavily reliant on tank positioning

[coral ibex]

damn that's wild bro your guild is likely mega griefing you

[golden loom]

think im just gonna find another melee for next week and focus step him the entire fight

[coral ibex]

they must be low 650 ilvl

[silent pond]

dumb question.. but when i sim for raid do i do it with or without caustic spatter? raid aoe or ST

[severe meadow]

Yeah I really don't know how your guild is struggling on heroic adds

[coral ibex]

no way any guild above 655 average is struggling in heroic

[waxen osprey]

bro why you getting benched in heroic raids

your guild is trash

[runic hinge]

benched on heroic?!!!!!!!!!

leave rn

gquit

[slate egret]

thank you

[golden loom]

wait are you more than 30 people or why are we getting benched in heroic

[past oracle]

Just getting griefed for playing rogue

[indigo ginkgo]

must be a super pro guild

[glad osprey]

I’m maining a feral Druid and I beat heroic coin

[severe meadow]

Assa just isn't bad tho

[glad osprey]

It isn’t

[severe meadow]

Like I could see wanting sub for things in mythic, but we're talking heroic lol

[fleet pagoda]

get real comfortable with the opener. after that you can learn about the priorities that follow and it's piss chillin tbh

[golden loom]

Whispyr (the guy who writes the wowhead guide for assassination) has two long videos going through the A to Z for both M+ and Raid which are nice

[glad osprey]

Even then, you can go assa in mythic

It’s dependent on the skill of the player

[coral ibex]

ive cleared 3/8m so far on assa, its not really an issue

[glad osprey]

Most people can’t hard swap and perform 90 percentile at a diff spec

[coral ibex]

just not good enough for RWF on most bosses

[glad osprey]

Like I said, I’m playing feral ! LOL

Usually top 4 dps in my fights

Just got aotc tho so we’ll see how it holds in mythic

[past oracle]

So tuning gives us 5% st? That’s pretty big buff

[slate egret]

thank you very much friends

[fast mural]

@severe meadow What do you mean locked in

[golden loom]

parses take 24 hours roughly to "lock in"

[severe meadow]

I had pending parses lol

[fast mural]

ah lol

I guess mine also locked in

[glad osprey]

I love sin rogue but yea I’m playing feral this tier

So stupid to see people here having to go sub

[tiny thunder]

@past oracle what heroic guild benches people tho

[golden loom]

bro you are 2x better than me

[severe meadow]

I gotta fix Vexie and I'll gain some ranks

[fast mural]

XD

[severe meadow]

90 parse on her 😔

[timber meadow]

eh, id just swap to add even if it doens't make sense. I do that sometimes just to show that I unnderstand what they want me to do lol and hey who knows maybe the 0.1% dmg will make a diff shrug... if it's an actual mythic boss or important id message your RL ahead of time and discuss it. If adds are an issue and they dont wanna move the boss for wtvr reason, then yueha prob makes sense to swap sub

[marble hemlock]

parsehunters

[severe meadow]

Let us have our heroic fun

[golden loom]

I refuse to parse on cringe bosses (stix) and gallywix got cooked with two 0.9% wipes whenI was pumping

[coral ibex]

man i love having to grief the raid to do what the RL wants just to prove that they're wrong

xddddddddddd

[glad osprey]

As a feral my gm got super mad when I asked not to cage on mugzy

[marble hemlock]

only meaningful parse is the wowprogress simdps one, and if you aint #1 on that one, why are you even playing the game

[glad osprey]

Even though that’s something I shouldn’t do as a feral

LOL

[tiny thunder]

I mean tbf a lot of classes don't want to cage but it's heroic and a team effort

[timber meadow]

yeah it is what it is, if it's an irrelevant boss it doesn't matter - not worth the fight/discussion when 20 people are sitting there "sigh'ing" at you talking about it lol

[golden loom]

what does this even mean

[tiny thunder]

Wow progress?

[marble hemlock]

idfk, but whatever it is, it looks like you suck on it

[tiny thunder]

Lmao

[past oracle]

1. Target swapping for ass rogues:
   just want to clarify about swapping to targets in for my class . Assassination rogues are not designed to swap targets due to the hero talent Deathstalker.

In short, Deathstalker allows you to put 1 mark on a target. Using finishers on that target consumes the mark and does damage. Hitting the marked target does extra damage. Consuming the mark puts 3 more marks on the target. You can only have one mark out and the mark is not a cast. You can only transfer the mark after consuming the mark or the mark dies (which doesnt happen in raid). This does a ton of damage and 40% of all damage to the marked target splashes to nearby targets.

If I switch targets, that target will not be marked, I will be doing very little damage to that target. In some of the later logs of the bandit fight I switch hard to the adds and do much less overall damage even less damage to the adds (10% vs 5% of overall damage).

2. Tanking one-armed bandit:
   One armed bandit should be tanked on the outside coin. E.g., If its middle right, tank bandit on the right add. This add should be cleaved by the melee and then moved to the middle add where they are cleaved together. Then finally to the left side. This makes deposit much easier as well.

Only in in the left right situation should some melee hard switch.

You can see how this is done at 1:13 in the liquid world first mythic kill. The add is tanked on one of the "kill" adds, then moved across to each add to be cleaved down. Pools are never placed on the add position.

this is what i posted in my guild

then got benched

[severe meadow]

[golden loom]

numbers dont lie I guess

[past oracle]

or sorry that happened is the correct answer

[coral ibex]

sounds like your guild kinda just sucks ngl

[golden loom]

Writing this and then getting benched for heroic is pretty comedic

[marble hemlock]

i will say this tho

not swaping targets cause of mark is just bad play

you just hit it with envenom (which still does a lot of damage)

and then go back to boss after

[coral ibex]

no?

you have to rupture it and then caustic it

and then begin envenoming

which is a massive waste of time

[marble hemlock]

well yeah obviously

[coral ibex]

add is 50% dead by then

[past oracle]

by the time you do that its dead

[golden loom]

even rupturing feels like a waste

[coral ibex]

never swap without mark

[unreal tide]

ewww, why do any of that, doesn't ur group have ranged?

[marble hemlock]

what boss we talking about?

[coral ibex]

oab

[severe meadow]

Bandit

[tiny thunder]

I pugged heroic bandit and mugzee last week, id just find a new guild if they struggle on these bosses still and bench players. NGL

[severe meadow]

We had 0 issue with adds on it and I never swapped off as Assa

idk why you'd be benched for it

[strange sleet]

It would be: Ambush -> Garrote -> ¿5cp? Rupture then FoK / ¿<5cp? FoK then Rupture -> Muti until >=5cp -> Envenom -> DM -> Shiv + Tea -> KB -> Muti + >=5cp envenoms -> Shiv + Tea for the last 8 seconds of KB -> Vanish for the last 6 seconds of KB -> Refresh garrote

So yeah the rotation you said is right. After this you just Muti + Envenom at 5cp and renew Rupture and Garrote.

[marble hemlock]

yeah nah, if you struggle making the DPS check to kill the adds before boss enrages cuz the coins get put in too late, and you just caustic cleave on it, youre trolling

[fallow canopy]

yea early prog in the patch is gonna be awkward, you gotta sacrifice and do what is asked of you

[timber meadow]

yeah if the adds are an actual issue you def want to swap lol or go sub

[coral ibex]

no the only person who's trolling is the RL who doesn't understand their comp's damage profile and is making prio specs hard swap, griefing both add and boss damage

[timber meadow]

i just assumed they were benching him out of principle for not swapping tbh

[severe meadow]

In heroic tho is crazy

[marble hemlock]

by the sounds of it, this is a guild thats kind of progressing through heroic, so looking at it from a "oh yeah ranged just cleave it lmao" angle aint gonna work

[golden loom]

Tell the firemages to start pyroblasting adds and see how long it takes before they quit

[marble hemlock]

if you wipe to adds not dying, you swap to adds

[past oracle]

its a huge loss to efficiency

[marble hemlock]

so?

if it helps kill the boss

you do it

[coral ibex]

yea but it literally does not help kill the boss

you do less boss damage and less add damage

as a spec that specializes in killing the boss

[timber meadow]

I def disagree... if they dont have the dmg to kill the add or are barely killing it... not swapping bc you wanna parse boss dmg is grief af

[marble hemlock]

you can argue about how inefficient it is with people who are better suited to it, after the boss is dead. until then, you do what needs to be done to kill boss

[timber meadow]

yeah exactly

[coral ibex]

parsing boss damage? brother boss damage ends the fight and isn't parsed separately

[fallow canopy]

I don't know the particulars but if you are not on a crazy good group even in heroic sacrificing its the "right" play even tho its kinda griefing your output

[coral ibex]

the specs that should be swapping clearly are not swapping

the issue is not that one assa rogue is not swapping

this is heroic we're talking about

[marble hemlock]

or, if you end up wiping to lack of bossdamage, then you can say "well, if i wouldnt have to switch, we have a lot more". all valid. but not swapping cuz "inefficiency" while wiping is just not the play

[past oracle]

hence why the damage profile of sin is bad

[coral ibex]

executing a strat that won't kill the boss is also not the play

[timber meadow]

yeah it makes no sense to say its inefficient while the group is wiping to add dmg lol

[severe meadow]

I guess not every group is going to clear heroic as easily, I still think it's weird to bench because of add damage in heroic tho

[timber meadow]

and refusing to swap

[past oracle]

nearly every other class can do that

but we cant

[marble hemlock]

we had a pull where our ranged just tunneled boss while one add was chaincasting, so i ended up running over and did 70% of the damage to the add, then when boss died, i yelled at our ranged for being braindamaged

[fallow canopy]

we can, it sucks and may not be ideal but we def can

[coral ibex]

such as forcing your prio specs to hard swap while the specs that are good at spread aoe that are piloted by MEATSACKS are not swapping

[marble hemlock]

if i didnt switch in that moment, we wouldve just wiped

[midnight atlas]

i just checked wowhead guide, did whispyr just gave up and put 2x vanish build for m+ ?

[coral ibex]

so the problem once again was someone else not playing properly

[severe meadow]

There's like 17 builds for m+, play whatever

[marble hemlock]

who cares, you can only control your own behavior, not everyone elses

[coral ibex]

you are getting griefed by meatsack ranged players

[solar wyvern]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[timber meadow]

the onjly person making sense in this discussion is seli lol

[marble hemlock]

and anyone who just refuses to switch, no matter how inefficient, to get over a pain point in the encounter is someone id bench too

[timber meadow]

and me but yall are just like not being logical

[coral ibex]

this guy got BENCHED ON HEROIC BANDIT

[marble hemlock]

if youre progressing, you can argue over inefficiencies AFTER youve solved the mechanic

[coral ibex]

im cackling

[marble hemlock]

so?

[past oracle]

the damage profile makes us do less damage if we switch

[coral ibex]

his guild sucks man

[past oracle]

the mechanic can be solved by tanking the boss on top of adds

[coral ibex]

this problem wasnt that he didnt swap

his guild is filled with shitters who are griefing

[timber meadow]

i mean he prob sucks too right?

[coral ibex]

he got benched on heroic bandit

[timber meadow]

like who cares

[golden loom]

I mean you might aswell get it out as soon as possible that it is bad for you to swap, so it doesnt go on the entire tier that the raid lead is excpeting you to swap

[marble hemlock]

its a guild thats clearly not as advanced as others, which makes it even more problematic if a player who clearly knows more about the game just refuses to swap to an add?

[timber meadow]

thats the guild he's in

and hte prog they have

[coral ibex]

yea but he knows what his spec is supposed to do

they dont

[timber meadow]

nothing wrong with taking wtvr is hard for you and your guild seriously

wtvr that may be

[main monolith]

assa is back

[marble hemlock]

if you wipe to adds not dying, you send everyone on the add, period. if the add then dies too early, you move people back. you dont hyperminmax who does and doesnt cleave in a guild where everyone green parses at best

[coral ibex]

this is how bad guilds pull a boss 3x more than they should

because they do dumb shit like that

instead of just telling people how to actually play the fight

[fallow canopy]

bruh

[marble hemlock]

yeah. its called progress.

[thorn thorn]

Its also how you work with shit players

[marble hemlock]

thats how heroic guilds progress.

[thorn thorn]

You gotta find how your people work and tune raider jobs according

[marble hemlock]

by overcompensating for bad things to get through aspects of an encounter that shouldnt be difficult

[thorn thorn]

Casual raiding is a massive headache

[severe meadow]

Never left bb

[marble hemlock]

sure. but what if the tanks are struggling/too incapable to do that. do you just accept that youll wipe, because you refuse to do what needs to be done to kill the boss?

[thorn thorn]

Gotta do what you gotta do

[marble hemlock]

do you just wipe until the tanks fix it, or do you offer a solution yourself, even if its not the most efficient way to play the boss?

[timber meadow]

yeah like this really isn't hard to understand. How is it psosibly correct to stay on boss while your guild is like actively wiping to adds? just swap and then worry about the rest when boss is dead

[severe meadow]

If a tank can't move a boss to an add, they wouldn't even be at bandit xd

[coral ibex]

this is poor logic because if he joins a new guild, does he suddenly become a better player because he's in a guild that is progging beyond the old one?

good players can be in guilds they should leave

it happens all the time

[last skiff]

Cinderbrew 11, we miss 1 affix so tank decided to ignore my call to not connect if possible and link every pull xd. I should test bleed

[past oracle]

shrug i dont see the benefit of -10% dps to the boss for +1% dps to the adds

[thorn thorn]

I had to do this when I was raid leading, getting heroic raiders to the correct and efficient method takes way too long

[timber meadow]

yeah you could be right, I made an assumption that he's not amazing if he's in a guild progging bandit at this point but yeah he might not be bad. kinda irrelevant to the convo though but yeah was a bad assumption on my part

[marble hemlock]

its not 1% tho

[thorn thorn]

Took weeks but we did eventually do it

[past oracle]

probably less than that tbh if you run over to the adds in bandit and then setup and then have to run back

[soft surge]

there will be no tank who does not chain pull in the bee dungeon

[marble hemlock]

clearly the problem seems to be an add living for 15+ seconds. if it died too fast for you to be able to switch, youd kill the add in time.

#1 goal in any guild thats progressing is to solve problems. refusing to do smth cause its inefficient is not problem solving.

[severe meadow]

I feel like his group can def kill it without all that but you just gotta swap if they need you to, you'd lose output but at least you'd kill the boss

[coral ibex]

i dont disagree with that, my point is that the RL is bad at problem solving

[past oracle]

we already killed it, like I said I proposed the solution

[coral ibex]

because they're reaching bad conclusions

[past oracle]

and said why it helps my damage profile

[coral ibex]

like telling an assa rogue they should hard swap

[marble hemlock]

which is par for the course for about 95% of guilds

[coral ibex]

instead of telling literally any other spec they need to hard swap

are there any other specs that are worse at swappign?

maybe uhdk?

[marble hemlock]

theres plenty of specs that deal less burst damage than envenom-the spec, fwiw

[past oracle]

fire mage supposedly

[timber meadow]

i assume they are having everyone swap

[coral ibex]

wild assumption

considering the adds are not dying

[past oracle]

there are three adds - two have to die

[marble hemlock]

anyway

[severe meadow]

We just had ranged swap to far, and melee swapped or cleaved the close one

We had 0 issue

[soft surge]

do we send crests next week or craft some shit

[golden loom]

same

[coral ibex]

so the best solution for nazgul is to leave the guild that is griefing him

[marble hemlock]

benching people in heroic is cringe, making assa swap is cringe too. refusing to switch cause "no deathstalkers mark" is cringe too.

[past oracle]

two and three are contrary statements

[marble hemlock]

theyre not

[coral ibex]

pug ur aotc and find a guild progging mythic

[timber meadow]

they're def not

[marble hemlock]

sometimes you gotta do the inefficient thing if it solves the problem, so you can move on

[timber meadow]

its cringe af to swap - i dont think any of us are denyin that

its just equally or more cringe not to cause reasons

[coral ibex]

why are you assuming hard swapping will solve the problem?

[marble hemlock]

im not

[coral ibex]

the only problem it 100% solves is not getting benched

[marble hemlock]

it doesnt matter if it solves the problem or not

[timber meadow]

^

[coral ibex]

sometimes you gotta do the inefficient thing if it solves the problem, so you can move on

but it doesn't

so why would you

[golden loom]

Getting benched for disscussing a problem is a major red flag though not gonna lie

[marble hemlock]

doing some damage to an add that isnt dying in time vs doing no damage to an add that isnt dying in time is pretty simple

[marble hemlock]

oh for sure

[coral ibex]

assa does some damage to the add

[marble hemlock]

this reeks of micromanaging RL bullshittery

[coral ibex]

via caustic

there is no "do no damage to the add" unless hes on internal bleeding

[soft surge]

u can time ur deathstalkers mark stacks too btw

[marble hemlock]

the add in melee typically isnt the problem, its the other one, especially when its a left/right split situation

[timber meadow]

its legit insane to me that people have this mindset

[past oracle]

and I dont think its slightly inefficient, I think its massively inefficient for sin to swap based on its damage profile

[severe meadow]

Not having ranged swap to far is CRAZY work to me

[past oracle]

clearly there are some people who have different mindsets

[severe meadow]

If that's the case

[marble hemlock]

it is massivel inefficient.

[fallow canopy]

in prog you are going to do that kind of thing

[timber meadow]

yeah its cringe

its inefficient

its aweful

we all agree

[marble hemlock]

its still the best play you have at your disposal if the add aint dying fast enough.

[timber meadow]

but not swapping is not the answer lol

[coral ibex]

you have to spend cp on a rupture to get caustic up and then start hitting it and then the add is dead! how is this going to solve the problem of the add not dying???

YOU DONT DO DAMAGE TO IT FOR 3 GCDS

[golden loom]

what do the tanks do with the boss while adds are up?

[marble hemlock]

because you can only control your behavior. you cant control what other people are doing. if other people dont swap, you do, and as a result of that the add dies, who saved the pull? you did.

if others dont swap, you dont swap either, boss doesnt die, or takes 20 more pulls, how have you contributed to the kill? you didnt.

[past oracle]

they were tanking it near the edges or on the wrong add probably

[golden loom]

cause SURELY they have it close to one add that needs to die

[soft surge]

kill boss with guild their way then go back in a pug and do a parse kill

[past oracle]

thats not correct, if I do swap, the add still doesnt die

not really

[marble hemlock]

but you helped

[golden loom]

okay but what

[marble hemlock]

maybe instead of 3 ranged swapping, it only needs 2 now

[timber meadow]

like if you hard swap and do very little dmg and there are still issues - they can try and just find a better rogue if thye think its cuase you suck but at least you did the best thing you could ... and then the group can try to find a diff answer

but not swapping is just like

i dont even know lol

[golden loom]

think its time to kingsbane the add

[marble hemlock]

ive done that before

[severe meadow]

[marble hemlock]

[fallow canopy]

it is what it is

[marble hemlock]

had melee trolling on mugzee so i full sent DM+KB on the add

[coral ibex]

if an assa rogue hard swapping to the add is the difference between it dying and not, then most of the dps are griefing and its not the assa rogue

[past oracle]

tbh i hard swapped, I checked the damage, did even less to the adds

[coral ibex]

there's no fucking way that isn't true

[past oracle]

its a damage loss to adds

try it

[marble hemlock]

if you do less damage swapping to an add than caustic cleaving, youre doing smth wrong, fwiw

[soft surge]

we going to be doing incredible damgur nexxt week anyway who cares

[timber meadow]

eh i think in cd's you jmight do more with dm+kb on boss w/ caustic

but outside cds def

[marble hemlock]

well yeah ofc

assa doesnt even do terrible swap-damage anymore now that our envenoms hit quite hard

used to be way worse

[coral ibex]

how many gcds do you think the add should live for

5?

4?

[soft surge]

big envensoms with rupture on boss

[marble hemlock]

if the add only lived 5 GCDs, i seriously doubt the issue is it not dying fast enough. clearly for the add to live too long, were talking 15+ seconds here

[coral ibex]

i'm asking about should

[marble hemlock]

idk, weve had pulls where the second add died like 3sec before time was up

how longs that, 17 seconds?

[soft surge]

if ur guild does loot council its in ur best interest do to the add damgur and get the trinkiet

[timber meadow]

yeah i dont swap to cage add on heroic but thats also cause it legit dies in like 2 globals and has never not died... if ther ewas even remotely an issue, outside cd's id swap

[severe meadow]

I'm ON loot council and didnt get the trinket 😔

[soft surge]

you will next week

ass rogue prio #1

[timber meadow]

i did swap and go into the cage first day we pulled it cause i wasn't sure

[strange python]

did you guys know this:

[severe meadow]

We hella fed our WW monk

And now he's getting nerfed

[past oracle]

its the same with cage boss. request boss be tanked next two the two cages and cant go in the cage

[marble hemlock]

the tl;dr really is to just be a good prog player. and a good prog player does the inefficient thing to help solve problems. if that means you run out of melee to help soak some shit that isnt being soaked, even though thats a ranged job? you begrudgingly do it, because it prevent wipes, and it shows that you have good awareness and do what needs to be done to succeed as a team

[golden loom]

4% aura nerf isnt gonna make WW bad

[past oracle]

pretty useless spec

[marble hemlock]

saying "thats someone elses job" is a bad attitude

[severe meadow]

Nah not at all

[timber meadow]

pretty based

[balmy condor]

If adds line up with your shivs then probably arterial over ttb, otherwise won’t matter

[strange python]

ur face is a bad attitude

[marble hemlock]

saying "how can i help" is a teamplayer attitude

[marble hemlock]

the worst, not just bad

[fallow canopy]

you prog as a group not just how can "I" pump more

[tawny geyser]

The changes are on next reset?

[marble hemlock]

yep

[strange python]

[strange sleet]

No MA then right?

[coral ibex]

maximizing each dps's output based on their damage profile is how you kill bosses, nazgul made a reasonable post explaining how this should happen and he got benched

[balmy condor]

No

[coral ibex]

idk if points about being a team player apply here

[strange sleet]

K ty

[past oracle]

like I said I switched and did less damage to adds, you can try it but you probably dont have to in your raid

[worldly dock]

Guys do we use the same Poisons like S1 ? Deadly and Amplifying?

[past oracle]

ty newj for the defense

[golden loom]

yes

[past oracle]

we dont have to keep going down this discussion

[worldly dock]

aight thx

[marble hemlock]

wrong. maximizing each player's dps output based on their skill level and their chosen spec's damage profile is how you kill bosses. if you have bad players and better players, you don't trust the bad players just because they play the slightly better class to do a thing, you pick the good players because you can rely on them to do what needs to be done

[soft surge]

heroic 5th boss prog dbeates are heated

[neat raptor]

Do you guys know a good WA for seeing what add needs dotting in big pulls

[marble hemlock]

we aint talking RWF raiding here, we're talking heroic progression. most of the plyaers probably arent the best at utilizing their spec's damage profile to the fullest.

so planning/playing around that is a really fucking bad idea

[coral ibex]

yea and again to contextualize this to nazgul's situation where he was told to swap specs or get benched, when he clearly prefers assa

[balmy condor]

You just pick the biggest fucker and spam your bleeds off of him

[coral ibex]

how does that maximize his output based on his skill level and chosen spec?

[marble hemlock]

cause you know that boomkin aint keeping their astral power to instantly send 3 star surges into the add when it spawns

[coral ibex]

he got told to swap spec

on heroic

[marble hemlock]

he was asked to swap cause the RL maybe trusted him to do good damage to the add, and he refused? yeah, thats a bench.

[coral ibex]

your general points are right but in this situation, they're wrong

his guild sucks, his RL is wrong, and he should leave

[marble hemlock]

he couldve just stuck to assa and likely out-dps all ranged on that add if he wanted to

[past oracle]

no i swapped, and did less damage

[marble hemlock]

i know i did

[timber meadow]

i dont really think maximizing dmg output for anyone outside like world top 100 or insert some arbitrary ranking is how you kill bosses tbh.. do mechanics properly and bosses fall over for the most part

[coral ibex]

i never swapped and it was never an issue in my guild

[marble hemlock]

i still dont know how you do less damage single-targeting an add, than getting 30% passive cleave on it

[haughty flicker]

the mechanic here is kill adds on time

[timber meadow]

yup

[haughty flicker]

which is literally maximizing dps output

[neat raptor]

@balmy condor No way this is true'

[marble hemlock]

cool, but also irrelevant

[balmy condor]

No way what is true

[coral ibex]

then so is your point about hard swapping and beating the griefer ranged in ur guild

really dont know how thats possible

unless they were not following directions

[neat raptor]

You spam bleeds on main target instead of mouse over apply

[kind ravine]

stats ok?

[marble hemlock]

ye i mean, OAB dps check on heroic isnt actually all that free imo, so you cant overcommit to the adds, but like... yeah

[timber meadow]

yeah im pretty sure most of us responding dont swap on heroic lol.. its not relaly the point where your guild is personally at. It's a discussion about what's correct when your guild is struggling - wherever that might be

[tepid night]

When playing vicious venom next reset, do we still fok at 6cp with dn up as an optimization or we go back to mut?

[coral ibex]

stats awful, reroll

[fallow canopy]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[marble hemlock]

them not following directions is irrelevant too. the question is whether you, as the player you care the most about, is following directions instead of being a roadblock yourself

[balmy condor]

Why not

[haughty flicker]

swapping target feels bad, and ive complained about it here before, but also my group needed me to swap to kill adds so i swapped to kill adds

[coral ibex]

i've already agreed that seli's points about team play are correct, my point is that nazgul's RL is literally wrong

[young pebble]

Regarding Lingering Darkness, does it activate when the target dies with Deathmark on it, or does it have to last the entire 16s duration?

[marble hemlock]

based

[unreal tide]

i believe the outcome earlier was it's equal either way

[neat raptor]

@balmy condor You loose a bleed when doing taht

[balmy condor]

Okay and?

[marble hemlock]

the correct thing to do. do the job, then complain how ill-suited you are for it.

[coral ibex]

unfortunately bad RL's will see "this killed the boss" and refuse to change later

[marble hemlock]

"my class sucks at this, and even i did more damage than yall"

[coral ibex]

so complaining later never matters

now you're just a parser

[marble hemlock]

is a banger line to drop after you kill a boss

[balmy condor]

You miss your mouseover garrote #4 and you miss a bleed too

[coral ibex]

nobody cares, you just sound like a parse monkey

[marble hemlock]

huh?

[balmy condor]

Who cares if you have 10 garrotes or 12

[past oracle]

i mean you are acting like I didnt do it and tried to roadblock my guild, not really, did it then tried to explain why I should never be set to swap on adds or be in cage (which are two major mechanics). the whole point is the damage profile of this class makes it difficult in this raid

[golden loom]

okay thats true, I did that after week 1 mugzee, I just told my raid leader how awful it felt to go into jail and if I could stay out and spatter from boss and he told me "makes sense"

[coral ibex]

in that situation

[marble hemlock]

we're talking about switching to an add

[coral ibex]

your guild sucks, your teammates suck

and they dont know how to kill an add

talking about optimizing makes you sound like a parse monkey

[marble hemlock]

if you outdps classes that are better suited to kill an add with a class that sucks at it, it shows how badly other people execute the fight, making them feel slightly embarrassed (as they should) and hopefully do better next time

[coral ibex]

they just want you to do what kills the boss, which is apparently hard swapping as assa

[severe meadow]

All I said was, I can cleave all 3 outside of jail and he said go for it xd

[coral ibex]

they're never embarrassed

they dont care

if they cared they'd have swapped

and done their job

[golden loom]

I even provided a nice painting 🙂

[marble hemlock]

idk man, worked just fine in my guild after i posted this https://i.imgur.com/9rfqOm0.jpeg

[haughty flicker]

big painting

[marble hemlock]

on one of the OAB adds

[coral ibex]

i've been in bad guilds before, these players are content

[marble hemlock]

like

people get lazy and complacent

calling them out on it helps sometimes

sometimes it doesnt. sure as fuck beats not attempting anything at all tho

[coral ibex]

then you're in a snowflake of a guild bc most guilds that struggle with add damage are full of players who aren't worried about optimizing or being called out

[marble hemlock]

cuz the result of not doing anything at all is very predictable

[coral ibex]

calling them out is usually the faux pas

[marble hemlock]

you have a very pessimistic view of most players that i dont share, i think

[fallow canopy]

same

[coral ibex]

thats likely ill admit

[marble hemlock]

most progression oriented guilds have players that want to improve

not all of them, ofc, but some, and reaching those is how you improve as a guild (and replacing others, if you put progression over vibes/social aspects)

[coral ibex]

idk, i think most wow raiders expect to only be tested by the end boss

boss 5 should be a breeze

[storm forum]

I feel like I'm peering into bizarre-o world here.

[severe meadow]

Maybe a hot take but I didn't even like Gally as much as I did Mug

[golden loom]

Cold take, FUCK STIX

[marble hemlock]

gally is a dogshit fight

and so is stix

[severe meadow]

Like I felt I actually had fun on Mug vs Gally

[coral ibex]

yea mugzee is a fun fight

[fallow canopy]

for real

fuck that garbage

[haughty flicker]

ngl

[marble hemlock]

anyway

[haughty flicker]

i dont really enjoy any of these fights lmao

maybe on mythic i like some of them more

[golden loom]

literally just remove stix and copy paste lockenstock there to have 2 of him

[marble hemlock]

no

[severe meadow]

We're progging Stix next week, not too excited about it

[marble hemlock]

lockenstock is almost as awful

[coral ibex]

lockenstock is the best fight in the tier

[fallow canopy]

sprocket on mythic at least felt fun 1st day of prog

[fallow canopy]

we haven't gotten to the last parts of the fight

[thorn thorn]

Sprocket is neat

[warm vortex]

The mag har armor goes so fucking hard on worgen

Holy shit

[marble hemlock]

entire tier sucks except maybe mugzee (once they fix the cringeass teleporting out of prisons crap)

[fallow canopy]

so idk if that will stay the same

[marble hemlock]

glad i selfbenched for mythic this tier

[golden loom]

okay yeah I havent done the fight on mythic, we are starting rick tomorrow

[fallow canopy]

[thorn thorn]

[marble hemlock]

richard reverberation is kind of cool beans

[severe meadow]

Only time I'm ever in those jails is when I get picked to drop it xd

[marble hemlock]

one of the better fights this tier for sure

[golden loom]

I just wish evasion was up for every slam

[thorn thorn]

Stix is a fight of all time

[golden loom]

moving out on that sucks!!!!!

[coral ibex]

my POV on this add swapping thing is 100% fueled by my rik prog on thursday btw

[fallow canopy]

at least its up for every slam with cds (?

[tough marsh]

hi all, returning player here can you help me understand why my macro doesnt work anymore ?

#showtooltip Tricks of the Trade
/cast [@mouseover, help] [@focus, help] [@targettarget, help] Tricks of the Trade

[coral ibex]

our ranged were NOT being helpful

[marble hemlock]

just pray for the bombs to all spawn in packs

instead of a lovely 2-1-1-1 split

[coral ibex]

oh yea

the bomb spawns bro

holy fuck

so troll

[acoustic roost]

!tricks

[prisma monolith]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[coral ibex]

add damage

boss damage

i'm the assa

[balmy condor]

Seems right

[golden loom]

ye evasion is a 2min cd so

[fallow canopy]

yea that's what I meant, the other slams going out its kinda w/e

[coral ibex]

our kill had lots of triple bomb spawns within cleave range on the boss

very lucky

[golden loom]

how many pulls?

[coral ibex]

24

[misty holly]

Does anyone know a good winning streak weak aura?

[marble hemlock]

yes. none.

we dont play around it

[coral ibex]

im pretty sure you ignore it

so no need

[misty holly]

I have some free space just below my stat weight weak aura wanted to fill it with something.

[marble hemlock]

so its just gonna be visual clutter for no gain whatsoever

[marble hemlock]

put a picture of a cat there

https://tenor.com/view/qeliameow-cat-paw-cats-paw-dance-gif-3807241812430059413

[fleet pagoda]

a hydration reminder

[coral ibex]

track lingering darkness instead

its marginally more important

[strange sleet]

probably even infinitely more important

[coral ibex]

true, something is infinitely more than nothing

[thorn thorn]

[fleet pagoda]

[royal lantern]

[latent grove]

Is sin looking to be stronger than sub after the buffs?

[celest helm]

if you are already thinking this way try not to, play what youre better at and youll thrive

stabby stab however you find it the most fun and prosper

[latent grove]

I've definitely felt underwhelming as sub. If it's viable to swap i probably will

But it seems like it was always viable to swap

[balmy condor]

Correct

[wispy moss]

https://gyazo.com/f71510154af61a2406a08a3a6f0a62cd any tips on what to craft with my current gear? im thinking new armbands

[lethal heart]

raidbots isnt updated yet right? just making extra sure

[simple violet]

These single target buffs we're getting on tuesday do little to fix the class. Is blizzard even listening or understand the problem?

[lethal heart]

they're exactly what this spec needed

[balmy condor]

Trinkets -> in game -> in sims
Class tuning -> not in game -> not in sims

[lethal heart]

[prime scaffold]

Is it still optimal to hit fan of knives on two targets talented in thrown precision?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[prime scaffold]

Ty

[balmy condor]

But I’m guessing the “still” part of that question is because vicious venoms

But uh

You never run the two of them

[grave trail]

Lockenstock is dogshit on Mythic the positive and negative mechanic is stupid

[spice spire]

@balmy condor dumb question I’m almost positive I know the answer to, but stix build with CT, you’ll just drop double VV correct?

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[prime scaffold]

Sorry I wasn’t clear I was thinking more in m+

Tyyyy

[spice spire]

Ty king sorry for dumb one

[balmy condor]

Yeah in m+ you ESPECIALLY don’t run vv

So that’s 2 for sure

[grave trail]

They didn't learn from silken court dogshit ass fight

[balmy condor]

Wasn’t that dumb

I think depending on the sims if you’re gonna run CT on Stix it’ll want to drop doom/sbs instead of vv

But as a human that feels pretty alien to me

[spice spire]

Agreed

[golden loom]

might just be vv and rely on spatter angle

[buoyant herald]

probably depends how fast adds get booty blasted

[balmy condor]

In aoe situations the sims tend to hallucinate a lot these days because they’re all so close and the sims don’t directly model in game fights accurately enough

So it’s just you sim something and it’s like play a bleed build with amp poison buddy

And you go HUH

[mighty rapids]

665 magnet sims lower than 658 eye of kezan for me, do sims take in consideration the 20% dmg cheese?

[balmy condor]

30% but yes they do

[grave trail]

What is the problem in your opinion jc

[balmy condor]

I’m gonna put money on it and say he’s bitching about m+ boss damage

[tawdry mica]

The ST buffs look good to me, I'm excited to try them out

[indigo mulch]

Oh man, i just watched the newest IZEN video, apparently we're not getting any buffs and the buffs we got are really bad and not affecting ST. I wish i had as much knowledge as that man has. No wonder the guy is banned on half of the TC's.

[simple violet]

This guy can explain the problem better than I... https://youtu.be/6-TyOOAhjPs?si=JMwi7gpigc9Wh8wG&t=208

[haughty flicker]

[fallow canopy]

[balmy condor]

I’m not clicking that

[thorn thorn]

[indigo mulch]

LOL

ragebait

lets go

[balmy condor]

Someone skim it

And tell me I’m right

[simple violet]

energy depletion... downtime doing nothing but auto attacks

[balmy condor]

Aight I get half credit

[fallow canopy]

And without watching it

[balmy condor]

It’s technically single target m+ related

But it’s the other way, instead of bitching about damage

It’s ye olde classic “I signed up to play a spec with downtime and now I’m surprised that it has downtime what the fuck”

[indigo mulch]

But assassination dosen't feel that bad even in "downtime". Running out of SD's as sub feels horrible.

[tawdry mica]

[harsh harbor]

seaforium causing the signet to give crit

[simple violet]

"I signed up to play a spec with downtime" who the hell signed up to play a class with downtime? Thats like saying "you signed up to play a crappy class and now you're upset its crappy"

[harsh harbor]

sob

[haughty flicker]

yeah but i dont like it so it should be changed

see

[golden loom]

Playing a energy class and getting mad that it runs out

[balmy condor]

Dude they’re all the same

[golden loom]

[grave trail]

Energy depletion has been part of the spec most of time and I've played it since bfa

[balmy condor]

“I want to play a spec that doesn’t run out of energy it’s so unfun that assa runs out of energy”

Okay then fuck off and play something you enjoy

And leave us playing what we enjoy

What are we doing

[simple violet]

Mages have mana.. dont recall having to deal with mana since probably 2004

[prisma carbon]

guys i dont like combo points when is blizzard going to remove them for me

[harsh harbor]

hmmm, trying to figure out how to not get seaforium to cause crit to be the highest, or is that just how its gonna be?

[balmy condor]

THEN GO PLAY MAGE

Idk man

[fallow canopy]

It sounds like you don't really like the spec, maybe try another one and see if its more to your liking, unless you are pushing insane keys it won't really matter which of the 3 you play 🙂

[balmy condor]

Why is the solution to you not liking something -> change the spec so the people who like it don’t like it

I want a slow spec

That runs out of resources

That’s what I enjoy

Why is my desires less valid than yours

There’s legit dozens of specs that don’t run out of resources

[obtuse socket]

Every spec must be like Outlaw or Fury it seems. <.<

[balmy condor]

Play one of those if you enjoy that

[harsh harbor]

Would I wait for seaforium to fall off then use signet?

[balmy condor]

Assa isn’t for you

And that’s okay

It doesn’t have to be for you

[fallow canopy]

Seaforium always gives crit unless you mistyped and meant signet?

[wheat tiger]

I like not having to push 1 billion buttons to save my hands from carpal tunnel

[golden loom]

Hey fury does run out rage! (sometimes you cant press rampage for like a global)

[obtuse socket]

Don't let him see that.

[simple violet]

" so the people who like it don’t like it" what people? its one of the lowest played class/specs in the game

[balmy condor]

You’d probably just get more mastery

[harsh harbor]

So I read in here signet giving crit is bad, with seaforium giving me crit, it makes the signet give crit

[wheat tiger]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fallow canopy]

The number aint 0 tho

[harsh harbor]

trying to figure out how to squeeze it out

[golden loom]

thats kinda shitty design also? why even have resources if they dont matter

[balmy condor]

Okay so just because it’s one of the lowest played specs in the game, its unique playstyle isn’t allowed to exist then?

[golden loom]

and I am pretty sure I heard fire mages complain about ooming at start of last season

[thorn thorn]

Mage mana exists for Arcane and PvP

[balmy condor]

Turn us into ret paladin version 26?

[fallow canopy]

Oh I see, kinda of an unlucky situation ngl

[thorn thorn]

It exists purely to bottleneck how much they can spell steal

[obtuse socket]

Prot Pala has to worry about Mana. ;)

Word of Glory spam

[golden loom]

yeah I do like how it plays for arcane, pretty thematic

[harsh harbor]

I look at some of the top guys and they have more crit than mastery running signet, so its giving them crit. Maybe its not so bad?

[balmy condor]

Why not just let people enjoy a spec that isn’t full spam 24/7

[thorn thorn]

Imagine playing with a tank that needs to drink

[obtuse socket]

Legit, I want my VDH

capped fury xD

[haughty flicker]

outlaw is not only gcd locked, but has a lower than normal gcd

and is also one of the lowest played specs in the game

so there goes that argument immediately

[obtuse socket]

Also last season basically everyone played Assas in Nerub'ar for Rogue

[fallow canopy]

Rogue is just not played much in general

[obtuse socket]

It was lower this season because of the omega hype Sub rogue was having

[balmy condor]

Yeh I mean the argument already sucks when we’re trying to hamfist statistics into a discussion about playing what you enjoy lmao

[simple violet]

No one thinking to ask why?

[tawdry mica]

Me personally I enjoy having a bit of downtime to relax my hands that's nice

[balmy condor]

I mean we know why but you probably won’t like that answer either

[thorn thorn]

Probably because people like playing the other classes more

[nova aspen]

if this is the channel after buffs, i cant imagine what it looks like after nerfs

[fallow canopy]

I like sin and can tolerate playing sub so I don't really care about the class population I just play what I like

[balmy condor]

Unironically it’s because rogue leveling and open world is bad

That’s why

[thorn thorn]

Real

[balmy condor]

Like the majority of the playerbase will try a rogue, get shitstomped by a rare

[fallow canopy]

don't really wanna make a thesis about it I just play the game and enjoy

[balmy condor]

And go “fuck this”

And not log in again

[wheat tiger]

Vanilla rogue here. And I really enjoyed open world back the .

[simple violet]

I just came here and told you why.. You discounted what I had to say. Then said its cause of leveling and open world? lol

[golden loom]

They should just make it so you level your Rogue in classic and then it gets ported to retail when you hit 60 and it changes ur level to 80

[haughty flicker]

because your reason makes 0 sense

[golden loom]

then it would be most played class

[thorn thorn]

Discounting only because the reason is bad

[haughty flicker]

the same class that you're saying isnt played because it has energy issues has a spec that has literally infinite energy

why is that spec not popular if your reason is correct

[balmy condor]

See I told you you wouldn’t like it, there’s a reason why the second most viewed page on my guides are the leveling pages, right behind the overview/cheat sheet. People don’t play the game the way you think they do lmao

[simple violet]

Energy depletion and downtime makes zero sense?

[haughty flicker]

can you actually read

did you ever learn how

[balmy condor]

He doesn’t want to

Idk

[nova aspen]

what % of people only play open world do u think?

and dont even do dungeon/raid/pvp

[indigo mulch]

Imma be honest whispyr, i don't think i ever seen what the cheat sheet includes and i've read most of your guides.

[balmy condor]

I tried to tell him to play what he finds fun instead of what he doesn’t find fun and yet he’s fucking here being pissy about something he doesn’t enjoy

Like

If you’re just angry to be angry

Can’t do anything

Doomed

[haughty flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/excited-fuego-gif-26833875

[golden loom]

The real question is, how many more people run old content rather than new every week

Tramsmog players run the world

[haughty flicker]

me running shadowlands raids every week for tmog

vigilant guardian still ass

[golden loom]

I use like 1 or 2 outfits but seeing something get added to my collection makes brain happy

[balmy condor]

Based on some wowhead stats I’ve seen to estimate off of, roughly half the player base will not enter a dungeon higher than heroic

[thorn thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/skill-issue-skill-ion-ion-hazzikostas-blizzard-gif-26477718

[nova aspen]

thats crazy lol

[thorn thorn]

Doesnt actually surprise me

[fallow canopy]

same

[balmy condor]

Yeah I mean MMO’s are inherently casual games

[thorn thorn]

You see a lot of people in general who play like they dont have hands and its cuz they dont actually do content higher than heroic dungeons

[fallow canopy]

collection hunters keep a good chunk of the game alive

[balmy condor]

The genre is built on the backs of the collectors and the 100% achievement hunters and the casuals logging in to talk to their mates

That’s not unique to wow

[vestal wren]

<-- whispyr when he realized all the meta rogue players will flood this channel after reset

[grave trail]

Doesn't arcane mage deal with mana kinda

[obtuse socket]

Yeeee

[fallow canopy]

after the notes releasing things were interesting to say the least

[golden loom]

I mean even stuff like league, the amount of people that only play normal games compared to ranked is so insane

[thorn thorn]

Dealing with fotm rerollers makes me wanna die unironically

They are such difficult people to deal with

[balmy condor]

I had 3 weeks of calm from sub hype and now they’re like worms crawling back out of the dirt