assassination

[balmy condor]

you just want to make players weeker as they log in every week?

[misty holly]

exactly. It's to represent how even the heroes can't escape aging.

[tawdry halo]

[haughty flicker]

[misty holly]

We're all going to slow down some day.

[tawdry halo]

i cant

[strange sleet]

Unpopular opinion maybe, but Pandaria-style type of talents was the best. Most ppl I know, me included, just look for whatever is best in a spec and play play it. Talent trees being so big means way too much info to learn, which is bad for the average player that plays multiple classes and specs.

I feel like making the classes more "baseline" with a limited set of choices that have a bigger impact is better.

[tawdry halo]

[haughty flicker]

i dont feel strongly one way or the other about the different talent systems ngl

[tawdry halo]

I'm too old

i've seen this argument and its counterpart too many times

[runic hinge]

You know how many people cried about how the huge classic style of trees were better all through shadowlands

A lot

[past oracle]

whats this mean

[haughty flicker]

2

[tawdry halo]

i dont think it's been updated

[hollow river]

2.2m dps

[balmy condor]

oh no

we still doin ptr spreadsheets?

[hollow river]

how do you not know this

o.o

[tawdry halo]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tawdry halo]

its the light version here

but it hasn't been changed since the shadow buffs so number go up?

(don't shoot the messenger plz i beg)

[balmy condor]

[hollow river]

i thought everyone knew

[balmy condor]

everyone knew what

[hollow river]

that fuu added a "S2" to his sheet

[balmy condor]

you think I open that sheet?

why would I

[hollow river]

i have no way of knowing such things

i simply (ass)ume

[tawdry halo]

and through legion...

[balmy condor]

yeah nah

that's all him

monkey see no evil

I dig my head in the sand on that nonsense

[hollow river]

the only important shit on the sheet imo is tier % gains and trinkets

[balmy condor]

hard enough fighting external shit

[hollow river]

too many ppl think they can compare specs with sims

[balmy condor]

I don't got it in me to fight internal on top of that

just not worth my energy

so I just ignore it and pray others do too

is what it is

[hexed matrix]

but biggewr numbwer better

[tawdry halo]

sims never capture the biggest variable

which is my stupid ass fucking up the rotation

[ionic hill]

Bit of an off topic question but whats a class you guys would recommend to a new player who likes to play sin rogue and has only played sin rogue in the game so far

[hexed matrix]

sin rogue probly safe

[keen spruce]

(sims are spec specific and comparing them is folly)
\

[tawdry halo]

you want similar or different?

[ionic hill]

Similar I guess because I love my dots and keeping track of buffs/debuffs

[tawdry halo]

I think feral druid plays similar

[keen spruce]

feral is goofy

[tawdry halo]

for something that's different, but i think pretty easy, I'd go with destro warlock

[keen spruce]

bleeds don't last long enough

[dapper cradle]

I’d go lock before feral

[keen spruce]

warlock fun

[dapper cradle]

Bleeds fall off insta these days

[ionic hill]

Planning to level a second character while the timewalking is here, will check them out

[dapper cradle]

Boring playstyle

[haughty flicker]

aff is pretty fun

[keen spruce]

[haughty flicker]

but it probably will not feel fun in timewalking

[tawdry halo]

awful awful spec

[keen spruce]

i love affi

i just don't love

[hexed matrix]

dont listen to the "awful spec" stuff. if you like dots, try aff

[tawdry halo]

i miss old aff that did actual dot damage

[ionic hill]

+17 is crazy!

[keen spruce]

that vile taint CD is longer than agony duration

[hexed matrix]

if you enjoy it thats all that matters

[keen spruce]

the rest is fun

[hexed matrix]

honestly try shadowpriest too

[ionic hill]

I checked warlock discord but its all doom and gloom in there

[tawdry halo]

oh shadowpriest is a good one

[hexed matrix]

yea its going to be bad lol

[tawdry halo]

it plays like I think aff should

[hexed matrix]

dont let them get you down. id suggest trying aff and trying shadow

[tawdry halo]

i.e. dots do damage

[keen spruce]

i haven't found a class discord that's really useful

besides this one

[ionic hill]

Thanks!

[haughty flicker]

aff would feel so smooth if vile taint was 15s cd

[hexed matrix]

im not kidding, this is the ONLY one

lmao

[haughty flicker]

also yeah most class discords are not as helpful as this one

some are hilarious though

[keen spruce]

black harvest has good emotes

[ionic hill]

Affliction/Shadow/Feral thanks everyone ❤️

[haughty flicker]

this is still one of the best pins ive seen in my life

[tawdry halo]

@ionic hill try aff first then sprist - if you hate aff theres 2 other lock specs you can try as well

just coz i dont like it doesnt meant it's actually bad

I just dont like it

[hexed matrix]

also worth considering: all the lock specs have some form of dots management. if you want dots + dopamine of a big CD or big spell, dstro is pretty good at that.

[keen spruce]

destro also has multiple builds that are all competative

in m+ at least

[tawdry halo]

destro super fun fr

[keen spruce]

you can drop and pick up basically any spell you want

u can run procs and instant casts, basically only hard casts, or mix and match any of them

[tawdry halo]

ret pally doesnt have to think - just unga bunga press buttons

[haughty flicker]

oh i know

i am a shameless ret pally enjoyer

[tawdry halo]

i respect

[haughty flicker]

it is a good thing its so simple though bc trying to learn anything in that discord is harder than playing the class itself

[ionic hill]

Are you guys sure? reading the Lock discord rn and it almost seems like they are being removed from the game lol

[tawdry halo]

they're dooming

[haughty flicker]

yeah that sounds about right

[tawdry halo]

destro will still be fine

[keen spruce]

they're big doomers

[haughty flicker]

i'd be more worried if they werent dooming

[keen spruce]

almost as bad as chickens

[tawdry halo]

aff has been complaining since tww prepatch

[keen spruce]

well actually

chickens just bitch about anything design related even when htey're strong

[hexed matrix]

destro pretty good imo. ignmore them

[tawdry halo]

just read the wowhead/icyveins guides

if you're sweaty enough, find a streamer that plays the lock spec you like

and check their personal discord

[ionic hill]

Yeah I stalk whispyr on twitch

[keen spruce]

kalamazi does wowhead i think

[ionic hill]

[keen spruce]

good resource

pretty much everything you need is there

[cunning needle]

I'm so fucking sick of these fuckin demonology changes. I'm fine with nerfing the spec as it is consistently strong, but public perception is skewed to view it as even stronger than it actually is due to things like PI being very routinely put in the spec.
The proposed changes achieve the nerfs sure, but at the expense of gutting a ton of interactions the spec has. It is decentralizing spec identity of demonology away from their demons, in favor of shifting damage profile more on to the caster themselves. Consistently nerfing demon strength, outright removing interactions between demons, implementing a hard cap of demons that can even be empowered by Demonic Tyrant in the first place removes spec identity, shifts both the skill floor and skill ceiling downwards, and overall homogenizes the spec towards the generic "mage using x flavor of magic" archetype.
Not only that, but reducing Demonic Core economy repeatedly just makes the spec less enjoyable and reduced to spending more time of the encounter spamming your generator and less time summoning demons. In a spec that is supposed to be about fucking DEMONs.

[keen spruce]

then just look at RIO or logs for any builds that maybe haven't made it to wowhead yet

[tawdry halo]

must be exhausting to play demo lock

[keen spruce]

i'll never trust demo locks again after the shit they pulled in nathria

[cunning needle]

its the warlock playbook afterall

gaslight everyone to thinking your spec sucks

[keen spruce]

and paywall your sims

[unique bay]

truthnuke

[vague raft]

Sin just simming horribly rn?

or tier set bugs fucking sims up? or just poorly tuned? Sub tier!?

[hollow river]

tier bugs have been fixed for a while

sims aren't really meant for comparing specs

[vague raft]

what a weird sentence

[hollow river]

what

[runic hinge]

Remember when sin was simming super mid but was top dps for most of the raid df s3?

Cause caustic go brrr

Yeah

[hollow river]

people never fail to blow my mind

[sonic schooner]

caustic and pi abusing

but blizzard cant stand a class that is not warlock or dk abusing pi for more than 3 days

nerf hammer was fast

[hard pond]

hey can i post a log i think out side me deaths i did really ok but tbh 2 of my 4 deaths were to brown swirls being under the stairshttps://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nWgYvBzVmMyGprfL?fight=last

[balmy condor]

you heard the man

[tawdry halo]

I might be missing something

but

is there a rogue in this log?

[balmy condor]

the log is so giga fucked

why is shadowstep doing 1.4% dps

[runic hinge]

[balmy condor]

kick doing an average of 1.9mil per cast

[runic hinge]

I need this tech

[hard pond]

Lmao

Why did it bug out

That’s hella agrovaiting

[tawdry halo]

where are you even seeing this? I get this group when I click

[balmy condor]

it doesn't even think you have talents

[tawdry halo]

hence my question

[balmy condor]

yeah it's the one that isn't a class mate

[hard pond]

I am sorry yall

[tawdry halo]

oh wtf

[hard pond]

I will get some more later to bug you with I did pretty ok and was like not to bad but it broke

[runic hinge]

You have done something confusing and that’s cool as hell

[tawdry halo]

i'm not mad, just impressed

[hard pond]

Yea I just hate waisting peoples time lol

[balmy condor]

are you not ambushing from stealth

how are you getting your mark

I glanced at like the first 3 pulls and you didn't ambush on any of these and popped your trinket without cds

[hard pond]

i am

[balmy condor]

[hard pond]

hmmm

maybe i didnt

😦

[balmy condor]

bit of an issue

[hard pond]

yea

[balmy condor]

that's nearly a third of your damage just poof

[hard pond]

do i ambush first or dot first

[tawdry halo]

ambush

once you do that, you can start to play around darkest night

[hard pond]

that might be the issue i normally dot first

[balmy condor]

no mark means you're not doing damage

gotta ambush or have darkest night

[hard pond]

i need to get some ui to rtrach that

[balmy condor]

but gotta get the mark somehow

[hard pond]

track

[tawdry halo]

do you use weakauras?

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[strange sleet]

Was the "cashing sound" from new 4pc set always there and I'm hearing it for the first time because I'm old or... ?

[balmy condor]

wish I had an answer for you but I don't have sound on so I didn't even know there was a sound

[hard pond]

i do

[hard pond]

its the teir

[tawdry halo]

most will come with some sort of darkest night tracking wa

[strange sleet]

yeh but was it always there or is it new?

@hard pond

[tawdry halo]

but yeah, ambush should be the first (damage) button you press in an m+

[hard pond]

new

[hard pond]

oh

[tawdry halo]

or any fight actually

[hard pond]

i realyl need to look at a rotation again

[tawdry halo]

including raid

[strange sleet]

ok ok, makes it feel more impactful, but having undesired background sounds that kinda sound like an aura or BW it's not my favourite thing

[hard pond]

prob a dumb question where should i go for a guide i assume wowhead or a streamer etc

[strange sleet]

yeah, wowhead is good

[hard pond]

ok ty sounds like i have work to do

[mighty vine]

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong in my opener? I feel like I can only manage to cap out at like 4M peak DPS, meanwhile most top parses are sitting between 6-7M

I pulled my most recent log and compared to a top parse https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/LpCyd42TRWkaKvN1/xkL9XyhcmDYrbBgq?fight=15%2C17&type=damage-done&source=165%2C23&start=3820592%2C1465002&end=3863172%2C1507582

Is the difference genuinely just 2 envenoms?

[balmy condor]

he got PI, is using windsingers, got an extra darkest night, you don't have a demon hunter???

transmitter is burstier

you're using bubbling wax and authority of the depths for some reason

[mighty vine]

No demon hunter this particular run, it was just an alt run for the most part. Last time I looked at the guide for weapon enchants and stuff was like mid season so guess I'm just out of date on that front

[keen spruce]

you just didn't cast as many abilities either

2 less envenoms or some reason

and your last tick of KB didn't crit

[mighty vine]

I suppose him having 20% haste could account for some more actions

[keen spruce]

our GCD's are locked

but yeah his melee swings would be higher from haste

also why does everyone do this accelerated opener on sikran?

instead of just getting an envenom off before their deathmark

[snow kindle]

he prob scared of mob flying away

or cause he got pi at 4s

or kill timings maybe even a just dont care angle

[keen spruce]

i mean that's gonna happen anyways idk

[golden loom]

Who is everyone

Why would you not get envenom up

[dapper cradle]

bleed build for +7 boosts goes hard af

holy

[keen spruce]

idk man i see it all the time

in pugs

on every boss

[golden loom]

Well they are trolling/bad

[golden loom]

Did you demise all over?

[dapper cradle]

bruhh

busted the fattest demise

[spice spire]

Need that

[arctic socket]

[spice spire]

[dapper cradle]

is it too much of a cook

to take sudden demise over caustic for bleed build

internal bleeding**

mb

[balmy condor]

Yes

You’d replace a 10% talent with a 3-3.5% talent

[golden loom]

the beauty is that stuff bleeds and you can go complete brain off and never press muttilate and spam FoK

[dapper cradle]

F

there goes my immersion

[spice spire]

Need double VV

Brain really goes off

[golden loom]

IB gang 🔥

[spice spire]

Never have energy to do anything

[balmy condor]

People played internal like week 1 heroics and screamed at me that caustic isn’t correct

Quake remembers

Was a wild 3 days

[spice spire]

People are very dumb

[golden loom]

I mean whispyr, look how much damage IB did for me in a 10 yesterday

[spice spire]

Ik bleed is a meme build

But people were very serious

[golden loom]

that talent is goated 🔥

[spice spire]

Big demise approves

[golden loom]

jokes aside, I fucking love watching mobs disappear to demise

[balmy condor]

I’m kinda impressed that I still remember 3.5%

[spice spire]

Honestly timewalking is funny to watch sudden demise in

[balmy condor]

Considering I have not seen that talent in aoe in months

[spice spire]

Because randomly the rogue will hit like a 45m demise and do 59% boss health for no reason other than ? Scaling?

[dapper cradle]

caustic still bangs in bleed build ngl

[golden loom]

bro you need to demise harder

[median citrus]

Does the maghar orc racial make our DoTs run faster? or is it only DoTs on us

[jolly heath]

I forgot to change my talents so I played IB in CoT 15 or something and still timed so nothing matters

[golden loom]

this thing?

[median citrus]

yeah

[golden loom]

I read it as effects on the player

[median citrus]

is that why Murlok says everyones running maghar for assa m+?

I thought so too

but just wanted to figure it out lol

[golden loom]

cause I mean you wouldnt for example want your curses to last for a lower duration

[median citrus]

True but wouldnt that mean a DPS increase for DoTs on you since they're faster?

or does the damage lower aswell because not as many ticks

[blazing pumice]

maghar is one of the higher simming races

and if you are horde all the racials are fairly useless for m+

[golden loom]

well they have this which is damage

but the other thing is not

[median citrus]

Thats fair, Im far too ass at the game for race to matter but i was wondering if that racial was hidden sleeper lol

[shy heron]

rng damage, the best kind of damage

[median citrus]

^

OUtlaw baby

[shy heron]

fan that hammer baby

[median citrus]

right between my eyes

[golden loom]

I think for example if the 15 seconds of this was reduced by 10%, it would just mean the duration is lower, the 3 second tick interval wouldnt get changed so the total damage would be lower

[median citrus]

yeah that makes sense. thanks for the insight

[balmy condor]

Yes except it doesn’t work on that

It only works on non damaging

[golden loom]

knew I shouldve picked a non damaging curse

but I just googled wow tww curse, and agony was first one that showed up

[runic hinge]

I’m cursed irl

[median citrus]

Shouldve been born an Orc tony

mag'har that is

[runic hinge]

Oh this curse is definitely damaging

[median citrus]

Ah ggs then

[worthy surge]

Hi all how does Ptr keys feel for rogue i heard its a non melee friendly season XD

[tawdry halo]

No change to playstyle

For assassin

Broadly

Numbers tbc

If you like rogue now you like rogue next season

[shy heron]

disregard youtube content creators. it's fine

[cyan mesa]

So theres basically no change to assa next season?

[tawdry halo]

There’s like 1 min maxing shiv change for ST that whispyr is cooking with

But it’s minor

[shy heron]

otherwise nah there isn't much change. it's still the same good cook it's been

[subtle tundra]

penile

[tawdry halo]

??

[subtle tundra]

uh

penis

like cock and shiii

[solemn echo]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-noted-notes-gif-17474838830648097856

[tawdry halo]

Okay mate sure thing

[subtle tundra]

balls too

[shy heron]

balls of course.

[subtle tundra]

there aint no cock without the balls

[tawdry halo]

Unless you’re a eunuch

[shy heron]

well there shouldn't be but that's a whole different conversation

[tawdry halo]

You leave 19 century Chinese political practices alone

[subtle tundra]

yeah...

[tawdry halo]

Very honoured tradition

In the Qing dynasty

Only the best advisors

[shy heron]

okay but what about 19th century chinese assass rogue trivia

[tawdry halo]

May I present to you

Regicide

[runic hinge]

Real

[jade abyss]

We have next season a fight like skamorak in m+ ?

[jaunty venture]

hey guys, completely new to assa and rogue overall. this is my dmg breakdown in a shitty +10 key. i feel like garrote shouldn't be higher than envenom?

[balmy condor]

definitely possible in a 10

you're right that the envenom is a bit low but given how much sanguine damage you have, the envenom damage is kinda expected

lookin like you're not getting a lot of envenoms off in the first place

[jaunty venture]

so likely a rotational mistake somewhere?

[balmy condor]

no

you're just doing dogass keys

[jaunty venture]

yeah fair, feels actually imp[ossible at this time in the season to try for higher keys on an alt

so guess need to wait til s2 to have a feel how the gameplay should be like

[balmy condor]

higher key levels bosses/mobs lasting longer

more envenoms

breakdown seems fine

[jaunty venture]

one other question: in aoe, do we want to manually apply bleeds on mobs as assa when they run out and no vanish available?

[balmy condor]

enough ruptures to maintain your energy and get a couple scent stacks ye

[jaunty venture]

just rupture, don't worry about garrotes?

[balmy condor]

garrotes got a cooldown and kinda sucks ass without stealth

just keep it on your main target

maybe a second target if you're super sweaty

[jaunty venture]

k awesome, that makes me not feel lazy then, it's what ive been doing lol

tyvm

[balmy condor]

np

[crystal pollen]

Sudden Demise talent specifies Bleed damage for its execute, is Bleed a separate damage like Nature and Plague or is it a catch-all term for DoTs?

[jaunty venture]

I'm keeping assa as my dps alt for s2. hopefully they're not dog

[balmy condor]

bleeds deal physical damage

but idk it's just like

your bleeds

idk what you mean by all dots really

[crystal pollen]

Another way to put what I'm asking is, does that not include your poisons?

[balmy condor]

no, cause they're poisons

[crystal pollen]

Right, it's just that "bleed damage" in gaming can often refer to damage over time in general, and during combat it's not easy to tell which of my many DoTs are building the damage that will lead to the execute

[balmy condor]

yeh

[vestal cliff]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[balmy condor]

that's why things like this

say poisons and bleeds

separate

[crystal pollen]

Ah right on, thanks

[warm vortex]

Tried out a build where i dropped SBS and DB for DS and TTK
On bosses it still feels better to pool with one envenom stack, or shoudl i am for two

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-the-neat-part-you-dont-invincible-gif-27194608

[warm vortex]

Ok thanks Whispyr

Love you big dog

[balmy condor]

someone's gotta, and lord knows it aint me

[tawdry halo]

We use ttk for the extra 2secs of envenom buff to guarantee uptime on the boss

[warm vortex]

Yeye waas what i was thinking

[tawdry halo]

So no need to try and have 2 stacks

[balmy condor]

I mean.......

[golden loom]

[warm vortex]

You mean...

[balmy condor]

that's not really true

[tawdry halo]

Well

It’s not not true

[balmy condor]

yeah I guess

[tawdry halo]

If you play for that it’s fine

And then it’s extra dam during CDs

[balmy condor]

I'm just gonna say there is no logic in sims currently that checks for envenoms remaining stacks or duration

[golden loom]

the sim is a based slammer

[warm vortex]

Fair, i still might give it a whirl

Just need to get outta the muscle memory of bone spikes

[tawdry halo]

Wait just so I don’t be a moron going forward, what does it track for ttk?

[balmy condor]

nothing

ttk modifies duration and stacks

it tracks neither of those things

[warm vortex]

Was also gonna try the crab build as a jokebut like

it doesn't run spatter or DM

I'd have to like
make a weird, tumor on the crabh

[maiden sierra]

Father whispyr, can i has sims with the tier set hotfix?

[subtle tundra]

i will

for fun

[golden loom]

[warm vortex]

Thats just a bleed build

:D

[golden loom]

no its a crab dancing

[warm vortex]

I wish we could take internal bleeding + spatter

[subtle tundra]

no you dont

[warm vortex]

Well

[subtle tundra]

internal bleeding is dogshit

[warm vortex]

Only if carnage applied IB

[golden loom]

it does

[warm vortex]

Varas

[subtle tundra]

it does why wouldnt it

[warm vortex]

You are dogshit

[subtle tundra]

?

what

ofc it does

same as SBS

[warm vortex]

:(

[subtle tundra]

internal bleeding does no damage thats the problem

[warm vortex]

I didn't KNOW ok

Yea but like

More bleed good

[subtle tundra]

sure but

is it really a bleed if its baked into rupture

[golden loom]

would be very interesting if it actually did competetive damage to spatter and you would play more around ruptures in AoE

[subtle tundra]

it reads as rupture does more damage

this fucking whispyr is typing again

who is he lecturing

[golden loom]

or maybe they could add IB to garrote aswell and u could stack it twice

[subtle tundra]

He needs a quick kiss on za cheeks

[maiden sierra]

Its his suicide note, let his artistic side shine for the last time on this planet

[subtle tundra]

nice

[warm vortex]

Oh my god

This feels so much fucking better

[hearty reef]

bro is typing

[balmy condor]

the way sims play, the super uber duper omega sweaty "pooling" rules if you want to call it that, are as follows:

Always generate combo points up to finish condition before checking pooling. You shall cast your envenom if:

• You're in cooldowns (deathmark, kingsbane, shiv)
• Your kingsbane is both on cooldown and not up in the next 3 seconds, and you have to consume darkest night
• You are above 50% energy

and that's it.

For tea, which is kinda connected, the only logic is:

• Thistle tea's buff is not currently up, and the shiv debuff has more than 6 seconds left (this is the "macro to shiv", as casting shiv is 8 seconds remaining, and 8 is more than 6)
• Thistle tea's buff is not currently up, kingsbane is ticking, and kingsbane has 6 or less seconds remaining. This generally shouldn't happen but can with like off-timed shivs and tea charges coming off cooldown slightly weirdly

At no point does the sim check for:

• the duration/pandemic of envenom
• the stacks of ttk
• the energy you're at to avoid auto-tea
• the energy you're at in order to avoid overcapping tea energy

[subtle tundra]

i did dream last night that i had the gun in my mouth and pulled the trigger

which is weird

[balmy condor]

I don't know what this means

[maiden sierra]

I want current ptr sims for assasination with 4 set tuning

[warm vortex]

But yea fuck SBS im running TTK in dungeons

[balmy condor]

okay then go sim it

mimiron is updated

[warm vortex]

This feels a lot nicer for me on ST personally

[subtle tundra]

what the fuck
sbs goated

feels good in st

feels good in add fights

feels good in opener

[iron carbon]

Sbs is just my fav talent

[golden loom]

Doing weekly keys without double vanish and sbs 🤢

[subtle tundra]

Meow

ttk is some dogshit you dont notice unless you track it

sbs adds to the rotation

[maiden sierra]

Aplologies father, i have no clue what mimiron is.
I am quite a homie with an extra chromie

[subtle tundra]

placebo ass talent

[iron carbon]

I mean, why not playing both?

[subtle tundra]

you can

i do

[tawdry halo]

Fair enough

[warm vortex]

Run neither

[iron carbon]

Was askin Vendeten 😛

[warm vortex]

I just got off my pc cause I got driving soon
But what would I drop?

[balmy condor]

The gates shall open to those who are knowing of what lies beyond them, with the strength and ability to accept its gifts. God speaketh to me in visions and doth not find you in eternal grace. I wish thee well in your journey

[iron carbon]

I know you do, I check your talents on rio regulary

[warm vortex]

MA,SD,SB

But yea wouldn’t dropping any of those talents and getting sbs and DB result in less damage

Idk I’d have to sim it

[golden loom]

its all the same nothing matters talents are made up

[balmy condor]

(my rule generally is if you don't know how to sim ptr you probably shouldn't be mucking about with it)

[golden loom]

[warm vortex]

Drop Ma for that one talent under VW nobody cares about

[dawn seal]

oh wait

[balmy condor]

it's like giving a 6 year old a hand gun type thing

[dawn seal]

are we so back 4 set is different

[warm vortex]

Is the name of the Goated energy talent venomous wounds

I forgot

[golden loom]

you mean our energy talent

[tawdry halo]

Good logic and makes sense - feels like if someone really cared about ttk vs other they can hit a dummy and figure it out

[golden loom]

oh yeah wait I cant read, yes

[subtle tundra]

i dont either...

[maiden sierra]

Very fair point, im just bored on the bus looking for wow things to look at because im in wow withdrawls from not playing for 2 months.

[iron carbon]

Oh you playing MA, make sense

[warm vortex]

Yuh

[maiden sierra]

I need this new patch soon
(Im tired of playing league)

[warm vortex]

I’m running subter

So I think MA is a must have

[iron carbon]

Not a fan of sub

[warm vortex]

If I was running charger I’d prolly just drop MA

Fair

[subtle tundra]

sb is a lot of aoe

oh sub

[warm vortex]

Imagine Assa without venomous wounds

[subtle tundra]

yeah you can ditch subterfuge uwu

[warm vortex]

or whatever it’s called

[iron carbon]

Yes, I'm more a charger player

[warm vortex]

Fair

[iron carbon]

With double leth or FI

[warm vortex]

Like full on charger

[golden loom]

isnt MA mainly for singletarget

[warm vortex]

With the capstone

[subtle tundra]

no, why would it

crit is crit

[golden loom]

or I guess when you vanish while spattering kingsbane?

yeah but in initial opener when ur spreading bleeds the crit doesnt really do that much

[subtle tundra]

you spread for like 5-6 seconds

[tawdry halo]

Yes because then you use it for last part of death mark

[subtle tundra]

then you have 5 6 seconds of ma uptime with all bleeds up and shit

[golden loom]

yeah and without subterfuge thats ur entire MA

[royal lantern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392807916543017000/1342464171878383636/GkPPenuXIAA5Hbd.jpg?ex=67b9bab0&is=67b86930&hm=bf46901168ec18e73435b245b6cce6612bf9d44d22ed3d532aa6796a4e071662&

important

[iron carbon]

But you don't play MA without subterfuge in M+

[warm vortex]

Dude I’m happy they replaced vendetta with Deathmark
A much cooler talent imo

[subtle tundra]

but you dont play MA without subterfuge in m+

BRO

[golden loom]

yeah thats what I was thinking

[subtle tundra]

Fuck you

[iron carbon]

Love you Varas

[golden loom]

okay good we are on the same page

[subtle tundra]

i want to go on the next page, with my life

[golden loom]

I am almost there, 10 min until work is done and I get to go to the store after some drinks

[subtle tundra]

1 hour and 10 minutes until work is done and then i go home to path onto some exiles

[iron carbon]

Come coach me when your work is don

[golden loom]

I am back on runescape gaming, so chill

[iron carbon]

I wanna become a serious player

[balmy condor]

the problem with "just hit dummy 5head" is that we're talking like at most a 0.5% difference as long as the pooling logic isn't like demented in some way. Comparing between playing around ttk versus not on a dummy will require two players with identical gear to play sim-perfect for legitimately 250+ hours at minimum in order to get the margin of error from variance to converge tight enough

95% of pulls land in a range of around +-165k

and we're talking a rotational optimization that's like 10k

[tawdry halo]

Not disputing this at all. More of a flippant comment that if someone really cared about having a hard number (e.g around 0.5%) then they can hit the dummy for their own character for a bit and see if it they care enough about the damage it gives them

[balmy condor]

yeh but the point is that they can't do that

they will literally never be able to get enough data to counter the in-built variance to ever tell

[tawdry halo]

If you compare against yourself with the same gear vs 2 different talents?

Ah sure

Roger that

Thanks for answering - I feel richer in knowledge

[balmy condor]

np

as an example of how like

absolutely insane people are

when they're like "I'll just go test it"

the sim, playing robotically every pull

[subtle tundra]

people be swapping a .5% talent in m+ and say they notice it

[balmy condor]

needs 1000 pulls in order to be able to tell a difference <0.5%

that's 5,000 minutes

[golden loom]

I took this one talent once and got every proc and crit, must be BIS

[tawdry halo]

Wait wait wait

You can’t be saying

That playing better means more than switching some of these talents

[balmy condor]

[tawdry halo]

The community isn’t perfect every time??

[balmy condor]

yeh this is my favorite

"idk I ran the same mists route 3x and it was better"

[golden loom]

idk M+ is unplayable without tricks of the trade

[iron carbon]

I don't play tricks either

[balmy condor]

for mortals, yeh

varas said he has to pull mobs and stuff, so he needs tricks

that's kinda the niche of it

[iron carbon]

Yes, I mean in pug

[balmy condor]

yeh

[golden loom]

varas is the puppetmaster of his M+ team

[balmy condor]

in pugs tricks is basically pointless unless your tank is fully afk

[iron carbon]

Sometimes, it take aggro from tank

But tank is fckingtrolling

[balmy condor]

yeh

[subtle tundra]

hey sometimes my tank dies and uh uh its all placebo man

[balmy condor]

and if the rogue is the one pulling the aggro

[iron carbon]

And they're like "DoNt BlAsT bEfOrE i TaKe AgGrO"

[balmy condor]

if the tank dies, just tricks the healer for easier kiting

[balmy condor]

yeh meanwhile one thunderclap from a prot war generates enough aggro to create a dominant militarism dictatorship across the 7 continents for a thousand years

[iron carbon]

So true

[nova aspen]

[iron carbon]

When I play the vdh with Ret, I'm crying

If i was playing Prot War, it would not be an issue

[subtle tundra]

hey can you tell me why musk keeps commenting on romanian politics on X

🤨

on twitter sorry

[balmy condor]

cause he's a filtered dumb fucking filtered

[golden loom]

in raid at the start of the expansion tho when you pressed charge reck avatar bladestorm as fury, was nothing that could hold threat vs that

[subtle tundra]

russia won the cold war i guess...

[iron carbon]

"Taunt"

[subtle tundra]

the cock war 🤤

[golden loom]

taunt could barely compete

[balmy condor]

elon is the perfect example of having nothing to worry about for the rest of eternity and just deciding to make it everyone else's problem

[iron carbon]

Wdym? Taunt is taunt

[subtle tundra]

he is 4funning it

[tawdry halo]

Turns out you can’t buy brain cells with money

[royal lantern]

filter avoidance is against the rules, calling the mods

[golden loom]

yeah I was over exaggerating a little bit perhaps

[iron carbon]

[balmy condor]

bro his group of dogebags cancelled the governments contract with a law-database because the full name is "Thomson Reuters Westlaw"

and these fucking idiots thought it was the news agency Reuters

[tawdry halo]

Hey man

[balmy condor]

so now a bunch of government lawyers just can't access a law database for references

[tawdry halo]

I’m Australian

I can see it clearly enough from over the pacific ty ty

[golden loom]

I love being from a country that has such boring politics and nothing going on that I can follow american politics for entertainment

btw am I going crazy or is there some sort of autocorrect thing on discord? I swear stuff i write gets changed or dissapears

[balmy condor]

makes me wanna rip my skin off

this whole nonsense btw has saved 0.0013% of our annual federal budget

[golden loom]

now thats government efficiency

[tawdry halo]

Wow

Govt can pay like 3 cents to every citizen

Don’t spend it all at once

[golden loom]

Stop with the communism at once sir

[balmy condor]

yeah but dw, the money they saved will get offset from the lack of taxes coming in from all the people dying in plane crashes cause the federal aviation administration is understaffed to shit

sorry that's too dark

I'm crashing out

[tawdry halo]

You need your morning coffee

Or whatever time it is on the east coast

[balmy condor]

brother I need to finish guides, sleep is not an option

[tawdry halo]

*west coast

[balmy condor]

4:43am

[tawdry halo]

Idk I’m not American don’t @ me

[balmy condor]

I took a lil break to rant about my dogshit ass country and eat a cookie

[golden loom]

Tbh if theres a topic thats acceptable to crash out over, its the state of the us/ the world in general

[balmy condor]

as one does

[subtle tundra]

ILL MAKE YOU SLEEP AND CUDDLE AND SMILING AND GIGGLE AND HOLD HANDS AND BE HAPPY.TOGETHER

[balmy condor]

promise?

[royal lantern]

elections on sunday, cant wait for the literally US GoP copycats to get 24%+ votes :33333333333333333

[balmy condor]

oh god is it really that time again

[subtle tundra]

of fuckin course

[balmy condor]

affen für deutschland

[humble verge]

i feel kind of bad how stupid your government really is

[tawdry halo]

Best of luck, hope it’s a good outcome

[golden loom]

Ist es over für mich?

[balmy condor]

I get that a lot, thanks

[humble verge]

no problem

[subtle tundra]

i wanna get waterboarded

[humble verge]

same

[balmy condor]

wait a year, I'm sure we'll bring it back

[humble verge]

me omw to mess with the Triads

[balmy condor]

they want to use guantanamo for migrants

so like

[humble verge]

HOOOOLY

[balmy condor]

maybe waterboarding

[humble verge]

giga plan

smartest choice ive seen trump has thought of

[subtle tundra]

i think it would be great character development, you know, to get waterboarded

[balmy condor]

oh nvm

apparently we aren't doing that anymore

[golden loom]

Trumps sets stop to migrant torture??? What a hero

[midnight mist]

nothing changed what do you have to invent for wowhead now

[balmy condor]

SEO MY GOAT

FORMATTING CHANGES

YIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPIEEEEEEEEEEEE

[humble verge]

imagine having to format

smh

[midnight mist]

[golden loom]

BIS lists LFG

[humble verge]

just make an intern do it

[balmy condor]

FOUR BIS LISTS

AND A TRINKET TIER LIST

[midnight mist]

4 ??

[balmy condor]

YIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

yeah 3 wasn't enough

[midnight mist]

[balmy condor]

so we do 4 more

[humble verge]

4 lists

giga

[nova aspen]

trinket tierlist should be easy this tier am i rite

[humble verge]

1 for delve, 1 for m+, 1 for raid and 1 for pvp

giga

[midnight mist]

oh ye you have delves now

gg

[subtle tundra]

im delving your ass

[balmy condor]

trinket tierlist is just a pain in the ass regardless because I have to include every trinket available from PvE, and give a blurb about why the trinket is giga or shitta

[hardy dagger]

Is ptr m+ up?

[humble verge]

its been up for so long

idk if they are still testing

[balmy condor]

good guess btw but it's actually worse than that

[humble verge]

prolly not

[humble verge]

honestly, it was a joke guess

[nova aspen]

why cant ppl see that if its not on the list its not good

[red schooner]

Open world questing bis list incoming

[balmy condor]

overall bis for deathstalker, overall bis for fatebound, then a bis list of only items obtainable from raid, a bis list of only items obtainable from m+

[red schooner]

Gotta know what gear to wear for my wqs

[subtle tundra]

do we have knife next tier?

[balmy condor]

yes

[hollow river]

i think wowhead stopped doing pvp stuffs

[subtle tundra]

lets go

ill use it to cut my throat

good golly!

[balmy condor]

its true

[humble verge]

i can see that

literally the same 6 people are queuing into solo shuffle

[nova aspen]

2 weeks to go WHERES MY BIS LIST

[hollow river]

now there's just iceyvein's incorrect pvp bis lists

[subtle tundra]

blame seli

what can ya do

[humble verge]

ok i know fuu does icy veins and wowhead

[hollow river]

seli does not do them

[humble verge]

but who does assa on icy veins

[balmy condor]

in BFA we had dedicated PVP writers, but paying them was literally losing wowhead money cause no one used them, so they got laid off

[humble verge]

[balmy condor]

and then they tried to push the pvp guides onto the Pve writers

which they did for like 1-2 seasons

[warm lantern]

random question, did sin rogue change icon at some point? and when cuz it used to be the evis one right?

[balmy condor]

and that shit got rioted

and then that disappeared

[hollow river]

seliathan i think

for pve

[golden loom]

Just gotta wait for pikaboo to get back to retail

[humble verge]

dont care

[hollow river]

ye i remember trying to give you and Guy info during PTRs

but pvp ptr info is just cursed dogwater

[balmy condor]

and yeah seli does assa and outlaw for icyveins

eleem does sub

[subtle tundra]

who does the fortnite guide

[nova aspen]

kevin

[subtle tundra]

thank god

[balmy condor]

frank fortnite himself

[subtle tundra]

John Fornite quit?

[balmy condor]

yeh

[subtle tundra]

damn

[humble verge]

https://tenor.com/view/john-john-pork-john-pork-fortnite-frotnite-fortnite-gif-9819343034942537751

[balmy condor]

okay 5am back to wrok

[subtle tundra]

good luck hopefully you get out of prison eventually

[nova aspen]

aschtually its 8 am

[tawdry halo]

Actually it’s midnight

[kind forge]

it's midnight @12.0

[tawdry halo]

[warm vortex]

Think I had the best driving lesson so far piggies

[normal mist]

Did you ride over an old lady?

[ember mural]

Bro?

[arctic socket]

Oh

I read that wrong

[normal mist]

What... Did you read?

Actually, don't answer that

XD

[warm vortex]

The answer to one of those is unfortunately no
The answer to the other is no
I'll let you decide what one that is

[balmy condor]

Bro?

if you got shit to say doz say it with your chest

[normal mist]

But that's not where the mouth is

[ember mural]

Aren't guides and stuff due next week not this week

[balmy condor]

what's that say mfer

[ember mural]

[nova aspen]

but that's today

[ember mural]

Jaina Wowhead cracking the whip

[balmy condor]

yes that's the issue

[pliant remnant]

very perceptive

[nova aspen]

dont panic

theres no need to picnic

[ember mural]

Oh he's picnicking alright

[balmy condor]

I only have 52 chrome tabs open

it's not even bad

[ember mural]

[balmy condor]

just wait till I get to the bis lists

I've had 200 tabs open at the end of the gear page before

[red schooner]

At least we've not had wild class changes that rework everything

[ember mural]

There can't be much to write if rogue hasn't gotten anything new outside tier set

[red schooner]

So, that's a plus in that regard

[balmy condor]

yeah for sure for sure

for sure..........

[nova aspen]

[red schooner]

Either that or blizz are just waiting for the guide to be finalised before dropping the rogue rework

[balmy condor]

any other smartass comments doz

[warm vortex]

Skill issue

Is your time machine broken or something?

Why don't you just work like
50 hours in one day

[nova aspen]

wheres my bis list

[lusty kraken]

just have chatgpt write your guides

[rotund oak]

[nova aspen]

(ive never used the bis list page outside of trinkets)

[lusty kraken]

also for embellishments

[rotund oak]

i just sim

[warm vortex]

AI is always right
Right guys?

[ember mural]

Open 11.0 guide, ctrl+c ctrl+v

Jk jk

[warm vortex]

Alo you can just likee

Write the guide?

[lusty kraken]

if you want to clean for cooking maybe

[warm vortex]

Like you have all the info no?
Just type away

[nova aspen]

[dawn condor]

Who needs four BiS lists, thats insane...

[balmy condor]

we fucking do

cause people keep typing "bis list wow" into google like monkeys on a typewriter

and so we have to keep making bis lists

and then people google "m+ bis"

[nova aspen]

bis list wow

[balmy condor]

so we gotta do that

and then people google "deathstalker assa bis"

[deep gyro]

[balmy condor]

and so now we have to do that

legit if the community stopped deepthroating bis lists, all of them would be gone

[ember mural]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

BiS lists are not helpful towards gearing yourself. In order for BiS items to truly be BiS, all items in the list have to be obtained at that level exactly, or else it doesn't make sense. Missing a socket for example would shift your stats slightly. You should always compare your gear through top gear or droptimizer instead.

Pre-raid or Pre-season BiS is especially not helpful, and we do not have any of them. These are absolute meaningless bait for gear that you will be replacing the moment the season comes out. Use Top Gear/Droptimizer to compare against your character

[dawn condor]

and next season a BiS List for every possible talent combination?

[warm vortex]

HEY WHISPYR CUTIE PATOOTIE

This ULTRA COOL TRINKEY ON MY BIS LIST SAYS ITS S TIER

But it sims lower than this STINKY trinket i already have
The bis list is A L W A Y S right isn't it?
So i should use this COOL, EPIC TRINKET

[balmy condor]

but we fucking can't get rid of bis lists

cause wow community will gargle bis list balls until they choke

[dawn condor]

instead of BiS Lists just put in a link to raidbots 😄

[red schooner]

So, all we have to do is spam search "world quest bis list Assa deathstalker"

And it may become reality

[balmy condor]

a delve BiS list was heavily considered for 11.0 yes

[lusty kraken]

you can't expect casuals to know how to use sims

[red schooner]

Oh god

[ember mural]

Delve bis list

[lusty kraken]

so you have to make bis lists for them

[red schooner]

I was joking I DIDN'T THINK IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN REAL

[ember mural]

There's already talents for delves, I definitely need a bis list to go with it

[red schooner]

fuck

[lusty kraken]

speaking of delves, are they available next week? will you get heroic ilvl items from vault?

[warm vortex]

Tbf

A lot of people probably just play delves and enjoy it

shoutout to my delvers out there

minus brann

brann should kill himself

[dawn condor]

its important, that people dont use their head when gearing or choosing talents i guess 😄

[warm vortex]

Those WEBS will summon NERUBIANS

[balmy condor]

also great idea but that actually hurts our SEO

so

can't do that

I mean we can, but in moderation

[ember mural]

I can't wait to SEO everything I write

[balmy condor]

flooding the page with "dont listen to this just sim" ends up just hurting the guides SEO

[warm vortex]

I love how every tier list is diffrent

[balmy condor]

so

doomed

[warm vortex]

Exepct marksman

people always put it in fucking M tier

Whispies

If you could change anything about wowhead

what would it b

[dawn condor]

the best part about guides is the "Stats" section

[warm vortex]

HEY

idk

i was gonna make a joke

About people asking abt stat

[balmy condor]

wowhead as a company, wowhead as a wow guide, wowhead as what

[warm vortex]

but i seriosuly cannot be asked

Whispyr genuinly

do like 3 pushupos

every stupid question you get

As a wow guide

[balmy condor]

deleting bis list

[dawn condor]

thats good for getting into shape, nice

[balmy condor]

you expect me to do seven thousand pushups in a day?

[warm vortex]

No more like

100-200

ok maybe one per question

[balmy condor]

but yeah, deleting bis lists

[warm vortex]

tbh 100 - 200 pushups in day is a reasonable amount

[balmy condor]

would be the one thing

[warm vortex]

If i could change smth about wowhead

Id just make it so every single link on the website after the first redirects to raidbots

[balmy condor]

here's some fun trivia

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/overview-pve-dps

this overview page

right

[warm vortex]

You are epic?

Left

okok yea?

[balmy condor]

what percentage of the whole assassination guides traffic

like all clicks on any page for assa rogue guide

how much do you think is that overview page

by %

[normal mist]

0.2%

[warm vortex]

70%

[nova aspen]

2%

[dawn condor]

would guess about 0% too

[warm vortex]

No higher

BEcause it's the first page you get

right

[deep gyro]

0.003%

[warm vortex]

Or am i misunderstanding this

[balmy condor]

so like if you click this page

and then click the gear page

that's 2 clicks

so it would be 50%

[warm vortex]

Oh

Yea i think it's high

because it's the first one you get to right

Because i don't think people would type

[balmy condor]

not necessarily

[warm vortex]

"assassination rogue gear"
moreso
"assassination rogue"

and just click on the first link

[balmy condor]

if you look up like assa bis, you go straight to gear page

assa rotation, assa stats

[dawn condor]

i think i never read this page once

[balmy condor]

etc etc

[nova aspen]

assa rogue bis list wow

[plucky canopy]

Would be quite the transformation until your next streams 👀

[balmy condor]

each one of this light gray bars is a page

[warm vortex]

God imagine wispyr build like the L4D tank

[spice spire]

He just like me fr

[balmy condor]

so if you have someone that goes from overview to hero talents to bis gear to rotation to talent builds, that's 5 total clicks, so overview would be 20%, cause it's 1/5 visits

now that we clarified

any improved guesses

[warm vortex]

Whispyr aren't you supposed to be working

[dawn condor]

i think its not enough, every item slot should get a list with explanations like the trinket list

[plucky canopy]

Still about 50%

[balmy condor]

shut it, give me a number

[warm vortex]

Like

No flame

Ok ok

Uhh fuck don't put me on the sopot like this

Uhhh

uhh

10%

[plucky canopy]

Isn't the overview page now full with all details

[dawn condor]

i guess about 15%

[balmy condor]

depending on guide it's between 55-65%

[warm vortex]

I KNEW IT

MY FIRST GUESS WAS CLOSE

[normal mist]

0.2% final guess

[warm vortex]

FFS I SHOULD HAVE STAYED WITH THA\T

Grrr

See you tried to mislead mee

people just search

"assassination wow"

and click on the first link

then go to the bis list

[balmy condor]

no no

[warm vortex]

yes yes

[balmy condor]

2/3rds of all guide visitors

search "assassination wow"

click the first link

[dawn condor]

i thought people might click through more parts of a guide

[balmy condor]

and then close the guide

[warm vortex]

Close enough

But see i was right

SOMETIMES

im smart

[plucky canopy]

You don't need, everything is on the overview page. No need to click a step further for most people

[warm vortex]

It's a rare occasion

But yea

[normal mist]

See? She indeed has been doing math!

[balmy condor]

half to 2/3rds of clicks start, and then promptly end, on the overview page

[warm vortex]

Me?

[normal mist]

Yes

[warm vortex]

What do you mean by she D:

[normal mist]

He?

[warm vortex]

yes

:3

[balmy condor]

which has legit no useful info other than talents and top 2 trinkets

[warm vortex]

i guess it's my pfp lmao

Which is still a dude

[normal mist]

HE HAS BEEN DOING MATH!

[warm vortex]

Yea!
In uni

it's paid off

[plucky canopy]

But that is everything most people look for no?

[dawn condor]

and how many people look at BiS lists from all visitors?

[warm vortex]

I mean

[balmy condor]

I'd fucking hope not

[warm vortex]

People come in here and say dumb shit

[normal mist]

My bad my bad

[warm vortex]

it literally is

No problem royallllL!

You are still awesome <3

[plucky canopy]

Just gimme a "best" talent build and let me play the game kinda thoughts

[balmy condor]

25%ish

[warm vortex]

Tbh this isn't to do with you royal
But i've been asked "are you trans" like 3 times this yera

[dawn condor]

TWENTYFIVE???

[balmy condor]

rotation page gets 5%

[warm vortex]

Someone said
"Hey i see you are autistic, are you also trans too"
And im like