assassination

[dawn heath]

i dont track it for dps

if u have shifting sands and a priest shield u may not need to feint a mechanic

[subtle tundra]

i doubt it ever saves you

youll just feint it anyways

never worth risking it

[dawn heath]

sometimes on single target you are down bad on energy

[marble hemlock]

but that energy save could make the key go like 0.0007sec faster?

[dawn heath]

and u wanna squeeze that extra energy

something like that

[marble hemlock]

totally worth trolling a key over cuz you didnt feint cuz you thought youd live

[dawn heath]

shifting sands is something alot of people are tracking

just saying

[subtle tundra]

you never ever ever just strart not feinting

[dawn heath]

its good to track

[spice surge]

A lot of people track alacrity

That doesnt make it less dumb

[dawn heath]

casualaddict is tracking it

[subtle tundra]

an even more amount of people track kb stacks

[dawn heath]

shifting sands

i guiess he is dumb then

[subtle tundra]

ok?!?!

sheep

yes he is

LOL

[spice surge]

Yes

[dawn heath]

u guys smh

[subtle tundra]

just cause of score doesnt mean not dumb

[marble hemlock]

ye i did that in legion even though it was completely and utterly useless

[spice surge]

Well if it never affects any decisions you make

[keen spruce]

he's not dumb, but tracking it is still dumb

[spice surge]

Why are you tracking it

[slate crown]

oh /I thought you were saying shmeeps is tracking it

[dawn heath]

it does affect my decision making though

just rarely

[slate crown]

SHMEEPS EXPLAIN YOURSELF

[spice surge]

It doesnt

[subtle tundra]

LOL

[marble hemlock]

well, it shouldnt

[dawn heath]

it absolutely does

[subtle tundra]

no it doesnt

[keen spruce]

I don't even track my own sanity

[subtle tundra]

its all in your head

[keen spruce]

let alone lizard class mechanics

[marble hemlock]

its 0

[subtle tundra]

its actually worse to overload information

[marble hemlock]

always has been

just like the amount of bitches you got

[dawn heath]

i agree with this but shifting sands is not something useless to track

there are other things u can remove

to free up your ui

for example

first boss NW

[slate crown]

I don't know about this, there's a lot of info here and all of it is useful, every second I'm scanning every inch of this UI to tell me what button to press next

[dawn heath]

with SS and priest shield i live with feint only on +17 NW first boss

[marble hemlock]

good ol xperl

[humble verge]

i came

[marble hemlock]

with moving party portraits eating 20fps

[jaunty sky]

Love the 9 row threat frame on that

[slate crown]

not gonna lie, a game mode where you have to track every defensive buff and judge the combination of them for a pass/fail on if you succeed is a gamemode I do not want to play

[subtle tundra]

if you have a prot paladin he can give you immune on every 2nd spit. you literally dont need to greed defensives on that boss

[marble hemlock]

that gamemode doesnt exist, thankfully

it did exist in legion

but you had a WA telling you if you lived or not

[subtle tundra]

look up sac and its talents

[marble hemlock]

https://i.imgur.com/fkZjlgX.jpeg

[spice surge]

But what if he gets 4 in a row without sac

[marble hemlock]

good ol times

[dawn heath]

obviously but we dont want to eat externals on rogue

[subtle tundra]

call spellward 😉

[dawn heath]

when the rest of the party needs it

[subtle tundra]

?!?!?!?

?!?!?!?!

[spice surge]

[subtle tundra]

get outta here

[marble hemlock]

if you die without it you need it

[dawn heath]

i also dont need it if i have feint+SS+ power word shield

[marble hemlock]

and if you get it enough times to need it, then that means the others didnt and wont if they get targeted next

[subtle tundra]

or you press sac on cd for the mechanic

cause its 1 min cd

most op shit

[dawn heath]

we do

when its not on me

[subtle tundra]

no

[marble hemlock]

feels like you giga overcomplicate things for miniscule gains

[subtle tundra]

you do

you literally script

it

it makes the fight so consistant

to script it

1st 3rd 5th 7th spit

are sac

consistancy times keys

[dawn heath]

okay and what happends if shaman gets it on 2nd and 4th?

[marble hemlock]

[dawn heath]

hes just dead

[subtle tundra]

you spellward

[spice surge]

He has walls for it

[subtle tundra]

you rescue

he uses

his walls

[dawn heath]

wall(s)?

[subtle tundra]

priest uses external

[dawn heath]

its 1 wall

[subtle tundra]

idk my little shaman

[dawn heath]

the totem is not enough

[subtle tundra]

can survive

a lot

he presses wolf

[dawn heath]

u need to stay in wolf for it to ramp lmao

[marble hemlock]

does he live if he tracks shifting sands?

[dawn heath]

bro doesbnt even know how it works

[spice surge]

I mean you have spellward, rescue and PS

In case you get turbo unlucky

[subtle tundra]

???

[spice surge]

Theres multiple ways to solve it

[dawn heath]

"he sits in wolf"

[spice surge]

But the vast majority of the time you wont need to

[dawn heath]

💀

[subtle tundra]

yes he does

2 gcds wont kill your key

[dawn heath]

so he just afk in wolf

[subtle tundra]

yes?

idk man

[dawn heath]

it gives him DR like every 3 seconds

[spice surge]

Feint is also useless

[dawn heath]

dont yap if u don't know what u are talking about

[spice surge]

Since it costs energy

Ofc

[subtle tundra]

LOL

[marble hemlock]

if the situation is "if i get targeted again im dead unless i pre-wolf" then the play is to prewolf, actually

[dawn heath]

u dont know how shaman defensive kit works

[subtle tundra]

?!?!

[marble hemlock]

or, you know, just press defensive or call for one of the 3 externals that comp has (for a reason)

[subtle tundra]

5% damage reduction every 1 sec, stacking up to 4 times.

[scarlet coral]

can you share the recipe for how you cooked your brain?

[spice surge]

Not using sac on that boss is WILD

[subtle tundra]

im the one who doesnt know shaman tool kit

[marble hemlock]

need to use it for the 1/10 fringe cases

[spice surge]

It literally makes 50% of the spits do nothing

[marble hemlock]

instead of using it almost on cd to mitigate damage

cuz of how good it is

[dawn heath]

so you mean that he presits in wolf before every spit comes out? and just afks?

he sits wolf bro

[spice surge]

Yes we know

[dawn heath]

clueless

[marble hemlock]

if theres no externals available and hes out of walls, and the only alternative is to take a 25% gamble that he dies? yeah, he does.

[subtle tundra]

yes you do 2gcds 10% dr woah key is dead

[marble hemlock]

which will happen

one in 100 keys

[spice surge]

If youre a premade you have 4 dpsers in NW anyway

Just like feinting once wont nuke your dps

Sitting in wolf for 2 seconds wont

[dawn heath]

:icant:

[subtle tundra]

idk man

you live in another world

[marble hemlock]

imagine wanting to live in highkeys

[spice surge]

Bro times a single key and thinks he knows best

[marble hemlock]

smh

[subtle tundra]

where keys are actually not timed by time

and every gcd has to be pixel perfect

[marble hemlock]

imagine playing around living to see if you have the damage, when you can just greed damage instead and troll the key 3 minutes in cuz you NEED those 2 GCDs IN CASE you make it to the end

and then wonder why youre hardstuck

2levels below the top teams

[subtle tundra]

high keys are done by being consistant

[dawn heath]

i've gone up 150 score in 2 weeks

i dont think im hard stuck

[subtle tundra]

grats

[marble hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/dankwanks-artin-evan-whoasked-gif-18782269

[dawn heath]

you literally said

hard stuck

[runic hinge]

same

[marble hemlock]

that attidue WILL get you hardstuck sooner or later

[keen spruce]

Just make your own SS weakaura man

[marble hemlock]

but hey, congrats on the score

[dawn heath]

attitude?

XD

[marble hemlock]

yes

[subtle tundra]

is this your first push season?

[dawn heath]

no i have 5 titles

[marble hemlock]

the "lets optimize DPS more than scripting defensive play for consistency"

attitude

[subtle tundra]

doesnt feel like it!

[marble hemlock]

is what gets most people hardstuck

[dawn heath]

ok but i do!

[spice surge]

[keen spruce]

No he a DH main

[marble hemlock]

since when is title highkeys?

isnt it like top 0.5%

[subtle tundra]

also title keys are very different than highest keys

its 2 keys level lower

[dawn heath]

i mean, i was 3.5k in s1 DF

[subtle tundra]

or smth

[marble hemlock]

ye

[dawn heath]

i was doing 28s

when 29s where the highest keys

🤷

[marble hemlock]

okay and?

[keen spruce]

Tf are we even talking about anymore

[marble hemlock]

doesnt change the fact that losing a few GCDs worth of DPS is gonna deplete a key 1/1000 runs, not having your defensives sorted and mapped for every eventuality before you even pull a boss is gonna deplete keys waaaay more often

[scarlet coral]

I think I'm going to start tracking shifting sands after this discussion, I see the light

[keen spruce]

Just search wago for a shifting weak aura if u want one. No one else is gonna care about it

[runic hinge]

I think I'm gonna play with UI off after this

[spice surge]

Like not using cloak during the last one second instead of saccing

[dawn heath]

the people that don't even push keys shouldn't even participate in this discussion

[spice surge]

The thing that started the discussion to begin with, couldve been avoided

[dawn heath]

raiders playing cheat death

[acoustic roost]

Yikes

[dawn heath]

not pressing feint for the whole season

[marble hemlock]

interesting take, considering who was part of the conversation

[scarlet coral]

wasn't your whole argument about not pressing feint lol

[spice surge]

Indeed very interesting

[dawn heath]

ye u dont play keys

[marble hemlock]

ye i dont know shit about highkeys

[dawn heath]

im saying if we have externals up i can get away with not feinting

and there is no RNG involved

it always does the same damage

if its enough its enough

there are websites to see if u live or not

if there is damage then no damage for another 20 seconds it really doesnt matter if u take 80% of your hp or 40%

[subtle tundra]

youre not calling for an external when you can feint it

surely

[dawn heath]

for example, if we have barrier+ PWS on naga boss i dont need to feint it there wont be another aoe for like 30 more seconds

obviously not

but the meta comp has a bunch of random shields

and shifting sand DR

[scarlet coral]

you play the game enough to know you could look up a shifting sands weakaura on your own but you came in here with some amount of intent to get froggy with "people who don't do keys"

[dawn heath]

you guys were mad with me not the otehr way around

i was just asking for a weakaura

u guys got pissey

[marble hemlock]

(despite both varas and i having more experience playing in #1 key environments )

[dawn heath]

saying its useless

[runic hinge]

it is useless, but no one was pissy lol

[dawn heath]

u clearly didnt read the chat

[keen spruce]

I was pissy

But that’s just my thing

[marble hemlock]

you didnt even respond to my zinger

[keen spruce]

I’m driving

[dawn heath]

crims, casual, kira, all these top streamers im looking at are tracking it

[keen spruce]

Was it about my sanity?

[runic hinge]

[dawn heath]

they must all be just dumb and clueless

u guys know better

[marble hemlock]

just cause people at the top do a thing, doesnt mean its needed or useful or should be done by people who dont play at that level

[runic hinge]

varas doesn't track it, that's all the confirmation i need

[marble hemlock]

how do i know this? because i did those very same things and was asked about it countless times and had to TELL people its useless, i just do it for the lulz or because it came with a package

people asking speed and me why we play vigor over mfd in SL when mfd was clearly the better choice and we just did it cuz cba pressing another button, yet somehow that answer wasnt satisfying for many

[subtle tundra]

not to say those people are bad, but they literally play the game for a living. ofc they will have high score

if you play 12hrs a day and you dont have the highest score

[dawn heath]

no but they surely track the informatiuon for fun right

[subtle tundra]

then uh

[dawn heath]

its pointless

[subtle tundra]

ask crims how he sims

[marble hemlock]

sometimes, ye

[subtle tundra]

he sims stat weights

[marble hemlock]

i tracked KB stacks in legion. it was ENTIRELY useless.

but i liked the WA

surely i did it for a reason, right?

(i didnt)

just like RWF raiders play dogshit talents sometimes

or have weirdass rotations

[keen spruce]

My whole ui is Pepe’s

[marble hemlock]

that are 100% certifiably not optimal

[keen spruce]

Very important high key optimization

[spice surge]

Ye a lot of people track KB stacks still

[marble hemlock]

having success at something doesnt mean EVERYTHING they do is the best way to do things

and those very same people will literally tell you so if you ask them

[spice surge]

And those are also completely meaningless from a decision pov

[dawn heath]

this conversation is meaningless

[marble hemlock]

then why have you been a part of it for so long?

[dawn heath]

i will follow people who actually play the game

and not sit in dornogal

[marble hemlock]

ye

[spice surge]

You ask for tips and then you get upset when you get helped

[dawn heath]

no i didnt ask for tips

i asked for a weakaura

[spice surge]

You know varas has 100 more score than you

[dawn heath]

i am aware

[spice surge]

And im like 2 keys behind you

So this "sitting in dornogal shit"

[marble hemlock]

ignore the advice of 2 people who actually did #1 keys in the past

[spice surge]

Is just false

[subtle tundra]

my shit ass elemental shaman is going on vacation................................

[marble hemlock]

and one who is higher score than you

better to just copy whatever streamer is doing without knowing what they use it for

[dawn heath]

i also have never played rogue before this season

[marble hemlock]

thats cool, means that if rogue aint fotm anymore youll be gone again

[dawn heath]

i had 10 days played on this class

[scarlet coral]

that is also a meaningless statement

nice

[marble hemlock]

nah

this entire discussion has been about him humblebragging

when finding a SS Weakauras takes all of 10 seconds

[spice surge]

Like he always does

[marble hemlock]

too bad hes trying to humblebrag and trying to pull rank over varas or me

and neither of us give a fuck

[dawn heath]

mate

u last played keys in BFA come with something alittle bit more recent

im gonna flex my vanilla experience

[scarlet coral]

flexing any experience is weird and nobody cares

[marble hemlock]

nah

obviously recent experience is super relevant and important

its why he brought it up repeatedly every chance he got

[dawn heath]

guys i was gladiator in cataclysm

[keen spruce]

@runic hinge imma flex my balls on your forehead

[fallow canopy]

this is great entertainment at least

[royal lantern]

oh, can seli and me do that then aswell?

[scarlet coral]

you can flex your balls?

[royal lantern]

ok, i lied, i didnt REALLY play vanilla, only fully started during TBC

[marble hemlock]

varas and i tried to give you advice on whats more important in keys -> consistency and mapping out defensives, instead of playing reactively to tiny buffs like SS. take it or leave it.

[runic hinge]

What am i catching strays for

[marble hemlock]

type "wago shifting sands" in google and youll find a weakaura for it in 3 seconds

[runic hinge]

i got a hunter to 51 in vanilla

[ember mural]

[spice surge]

Heroic effort

[marble hemlock]

and fwiw, shit hasnt changed since i last pushed #1 keys (which was in df, btw, not bfa)

living > optimizing DPS, always

guaranteed living without needing externals > living only with externals

[dawn heath]

this season is not like DF

living things this season is so easy

[marble hemlock]

surely

DF was piss easy as well to live so

[dawn heath]

the bottleneck is throughput most of the time

[marble hemlock]

idk what kind of argument is that

[runic hinge]

then why'd you die earlier

[royal lantern]

then why do people play aug then

[runic hinge]

to start this whole thing

[dawn heath]

:icant:

tony u cant be serious

[runic hinge]

right you played bad

[dawn heath]

yes

there is not a single player

that never dies

in a key

[bronze pike]

me

[dawn heath]

whats your point

[bronze pike]

[marble hemlock]

tbf, i never die in keys this season

[scarlet coral]

it's true I've never seen this guy die in a key

[fallow canopy]

me (I don't do keys)

[marble hemlock]

try to refute that

[subtle tundra]

me when once again i die from TEMPERED IN BATTLE

AJSHDIUAS HROIUes hdfoaifhdgpiuerhg9ucxhk

[bronze pike]

im just that good

[spice surge]

Lovely mechanic innit

[keen spruce]

BROTHER WHAT IS YOOUURRR POINT. JUST GO GRAB AN SS WA OFF WAGO

[bronze pike]

skill issue, tell your prot to just temper his battle

[keen spruce]

WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOIT THIS STILL

[subtle tundra]

"oh why did i die"
tempered
tempered
tempered
actual mechanic

[keen spruce]

[marble hemlock]

cant humblebrag with his accomplishments if he silently grabs a WA

wheres the self esteem gonna come from?

[scarlet coral]

maybe shifting sands would have saved you from tempered if you tracked it

[bronze pike]

aljan is a fun guy

[subtle tundra]

sorry... team... should've outplayed temepered once again....

[bronze pike]

to be around

[bronze pike]

damn right

[runic hinge]

I'mmma go try and get stu scream on film

[marble hemlock]

ngl im glad i quit pushing highkeys

[bronze pike]

now get my paladin ass some battle tempered

[marble hemlock]

everything i see from highkey players in the recent seasons is just making me feel like i made a good call

[dawn heath]

alot of deaths is tempered

[scarlet coral]

m+ brainrot is a real phenomenon

[dawn heath]

its such a shit spell

[tawdry crypt]

What is m+ brainrot

[subtle tundra]

playing m+

[marble hemlock]

when any decision, no matter how stupid, is being excused with "ye but r.io score" by either the players themelves or those who look up to the players with high score

[royal lantern]

i loved that 1 pull in a weekly +10 arakara key where the prot paladin did 2,4million dmg to me with tempered, and then 3 flying things got pulled and charged me, dead in 1,5seconds from full hp

[marble hemlock]

and when their own headcanon gets in the way of actual advice, even if it literally comes from the people at the top themselves

[spice surge]

[dawn heath]

in my experience from my recent raiding our m+ players have been our best raiders also

[marble hemlock]

zerocool crafted int dagger with his first spark, he was #1 at the time so clearly theres a reason right?

[dawn heath]

but i know alot of raiders hate m+ players

[tawdry crypt]

Raiders are bots

[hearty reef]

Never seen tempered hit for less than 2mil

[subtle tundra]

yes people who play the game a lot are good at the game

LOL

[marble hemlock]

hope you also crafted int dagger

[hearty reef]

I gotta feint that shit

[royal lantern]

and in my experience, many of the worst raiders where "m+ pushers"

[subtle tundra]

theres a bell curve

[tawdry crypt]

No shot

[dawn heath]

ye i mean its possible i hear this take alot. but just anecdotally its been the reverse for me

[tawdry crypt]

Pushing 10s maybe

[dawn heath]

the raidlogging raiders are just bad at the game

[marble hemlock]

yes

[dawn heath]

few exceptions

[marble hemlock]

absolutely

[subtle tundra]

ofc crims is gonna be good at raiding, he has to so he gets gear

[marble hemlock]

theres a fuckton of fotm m+ multiclassgodkingx rerollers

that are absolutely dogshit raiders

[royal lantern]

^

[marble hemlock]

even though they got high score on those fotm specs

[tawdry crypt]

What is high score

[dawn heath]

raiding is so easy though

i dont get it

[tawdry crypt]

Raiding is literally braindead

[marble hemlock]

the amount of highkey m+ players that i respect in a raiding environment is very very low

[subtle tundra]

yes raiding is hard cause its 20 players having to coordonate

[royal lantern]

"i want a raidspot for m+ gear"

4weeks into a tier

"i want to reroll, my class got nerfed"

[tawdry crypt]

What is high score

[marble hemlock]

m+ has more to do with arena than with raiding anyway

[subtle tundra]

and raiding is mostly being prepared

[dawn heath]

ye i mean i don't do this

[subtle tundra]

and studying

[dawn heath]

if i commit to raiding i stick to the class

im a good raider

but it sucks

to be in that position

u can maybe swap class after prog is over

during farm bosses

[marble hemlock]

thats not the problem

[dawn heath]

and stay on your main for the last 2

[marble hemlock]

the problem with most highkey m+ pushers is that theyre almost all captain hindsights that think they are the bees knees and do shit theyre not supposed to, to "help" the rest of the raid

cuz their ego is massively inflated from r.io and they think they need to constnatly look out for the mistakes of others instead of just doing whatever the fuck theyre assigned to do and nothing else

[tawdry crypt]

What

[dawn heath]

yeah i hear this alot in my experience from the guilds i've been in they've all been reasonable

[subtle tundra]

i do what mr guild master tells me to
! ! !
i am the goat

[keen spruce]

In my experience high m+ players are parse mo keys in raid

Monkeys*

[subtle tundra]

(i ignore him and tell him to bench me if i have to play anything but assa)

[keen spruce]

That don’t do mechanics

[royal lantern]

also the "raiding is easy lol" is hilarious, cus you guys obivously NEVER did the raid prep that your RL does

[keen spruce]

Which is ironic

[royal lantern]

[bronze pike]

[tawdry crypt]

What

[dawn heath]

parsing is good

[bronze pike]

i remember arguing with noawh on vdh side once

[dawn heath]

if you can not die

and do mecahnics

and parse

perfect

[keen spruce]

I told my gm I multi-spec’d when I joined

[marble hemlock]

m+ is scripted but once you play the actual key, you just have to react a lot to whats happening.

raid is very much the opposite, you just keep doing what youre supposed to.

[keen spruce]

I multispec assas and bench

[subtle tundra]

fucking goat

[bronze pike]

and naowh is still salty about it

[marble hemlock]

shits pre-assigned in raid, you dont have to think.

[dawn heath]

i raided in amirdrassil

[bronze pike]

even tho i helped him with his ret build too

[dawn heath]

last time

fyrakk and tindral was fun

[marble hemlock]

just gotta execute. highkeys, and i mean like top5 world keys, are VERY different than that

[bronze pike]

m+ players are justr a different breed

[subtle tundra]

did you do tindral pre-nerf?

[dawn heath]

yes

or well

what do u mean by prenerf

[marble hemlock]

cuz everyone knows exactly what to do and what buttons to press, it when things inevitably go wrong in a 30min run that you either save the run or you dont by adjusting.

[dawn heath]

it was nerfed 3 times

[keen spruce]

Tindral was stinky

[subtle tundra]

pre first nerf.

[dawn heath]

na not the 3 second seed

but we got it before the other nerf

i think only like 10 guilds killed it with 10s seed?

3s*

[subtle tundra]

i wish we had more time to play pre-nerf

we did the seeds twice

[marble hemlock]

i wish we didnt

as long as they make dogshit bosses like this

[subtle tundra]

it felt good to do them

(once every 20 pulls)

shout out to smolderon.
gm wanted me to play it when they got to it and i was high so i couldnt play

[dawn heath]

i joined a friends guild cause i hadnt been raiding since bfa

[royal lantern]

oh, so you did prepare your raids cds for ovinax/queen for all 20players?

and checked the best usage for cds for platforms and adjusted them after watching your raids dps?

and went trought everyoones logs after a raid to adjust things again?

and do healer prep?

[dawn heath]

we were wr 180

[marble hemlock]

i kicked a worm

if boss didnt die after 30 pulls, it was someone elses fault

[royal lantern]

its just hilarious

[dawn heath]

https://medal.tv/games/world-of-warcraft/clips/1NUWLNeIWO9IbO?invite=cr-MSxTZjMsMTcyMzI0NTA1LA

oh ye

[marble hemlock]

man i miss the survivability WA we had in legion

that shit was good

[dawn heath]

demo lock was so broken on this fight

[marble hemlock]

idk why no one ever made a copy for it for newer expansions

[subtle tundra]

i wish i got to play cheat death in dungeons again........
i get so jealous of my little aug evoker when he procs cheat death

[royal lantern]

i want m+ to have a score Degradation/score losing if you fail or leave keys

that would humble SOOOOOOOO MANY m+ brains

[marble hemlock]

playing cheat is for pussies

[royal lantern]

cant fail upwards anymore

[dawn heath]

rogue has the worst survivability in the game if u talent out of elusiveness

or assa atleast

its horrendous

without feint dr

but ye

cheat is nice

its pog to have in keys

[spice surge]

While sub can survive third boss siege without feint on 17s

[hearty reef]

Cap

Even with 16k versa

[royal lantern]

hows that

[dawn heath]

beeing a seed carrier pre nerf on fyrakk was not fun

[subtle tundra]

they get a shield form shadow dance

[dawn heath]

https://medal.tv/games/world-of-warcraft/clips/1TzfqzKv5-37_T?invite=cr-MSxBdDgsMTcyMzI0NTA1LA

[royal lantern]

that alone is enough?

[marble hemlock]

ye but sub rogue aint getting invited to siege 17

are they

[hearty reef]

Dr from dance

[spice surge]

Nah but its definitely doable

[marble hemlock]

i gotta ask: do you like randomly post clips of your own shit that nobody ever engages with or asks for?

cuz ive seen it like

4 times now

cuz we do have a rule against self promotion

[spice surge]

Ye 10% dr from dance, like 10% dr from vers, 5% dr from trickster and 10% hp shield

[marble hemlock]

well yeah

[spice surge]

While assa gets 3% leech

[royal lantern]

ok ye, stacks up

[marble hemlock]

anything but #1 keys are doable without meta comp

[spice surge]

My point moreso being that sub is among the best non-meta specs

[subtle tundra]

shout out to that outlaw rogue

[marble hemlock]

and even #1 keys are doable without meta comp if you have a grp that actually puts in the time/effort to benefit from whatever good shit the off-meta spec brings

[royal lantern]

i hate leech so much, cus there are so many people that think it actually helps

[marble hemlock]

no

[subtle tundra]

playing with fury survival dps

[marble hemlock]

we dont do that here

there's a line we do not cross

[marble hemlock]

ye i can see that

[dawn heath]

leech is way too low to have any effect ye

[marble hemlock]

can talent into 2% more with shadowheart if you vanish to leech back up from your dots

[hearty reef]

"high tier mid"

[marble hemlock]

leech is fine, just not at the levels we get now. used to be 12% with MP back in older expacs

[subtle tundra]

i was trying to praise the group as a whole. mb
dont want to give any credit to outlaw

[dawn heath]

whoever cooked up this talent needs to be fired

[marble hemlock]

then it got nerfed, twice, and then was hit with the global selfheal nerf

[marble hemlock]

fair, fair

we just pretend theres no outlaw

but ye that makes sense

theres a lot of off-meta enjoyers out there that do well

elbro did great on enhance way before it was meta

andy on brew back in bfa too, he made it meta

faithy always slapped on warr even when no one else did etc.

[hearty reef]

Why is bro listing ecelebs

[marble hemlock]

cuz meta chasing is cringe

and so is fotm rerolling

instead of making the spec you love to play work

[subtle tundra]

buff windwalker aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[dawn heath]

as long as key depletion exists this will never work

[marble hemlock]

but most people would rather be a mediocre fotm reroller 200 score below #1, than be the #1 of their spec instead (and possibly take #1 world)

[dawn heath]

ye rank 1 havoc is not even 3400

[marble hemlock]

idk, worked well enough in every single previous expac

problem is that most of the best players end up rerolling

[dawn heath]

it didnt really tho

but its worse now

[hearty reef]

Eleem is not r1 sub anymore

[dawn heath]

its always been like this

[hearty reef]

[marble hemlock]

it has not always been like this, no

[dawn heath]

ever since bfa

when outlaw outlaw havoc meta

[marble hemlock]

wasnt like this in bfa or SL

[dawn heath]

it was tho

[marble hemlock]

[dawn heath]

but back then it wasnt as serious, cause there were no incentives to push for something like a m+ title people just played for fun if they enjoyed it

dude have u seen the breakdown?

every key had 2 rogues

[marble hemlock]

there was plenty of incentive

prestige

what breakdown? i PLAYED it

[dawn heath]

BFA had one of the most oppressive metas

[marble hemlock]

i know what happened

[royal lantern]

i had the #24 assa log on Sark

(34people killed the boss as assa at that time or something like that)

[dawn heath]

me too

i have data if u have a hard time remembering

[marble hemlock]

and if vibezz didnt troll our tol dagor, i wouldve been #1 rogue as assa despite the "oppressive outlaw meta"

[dawn heath]

ok and?

[keen spruce]

[marble hemlock]

kind of disproves the point that you couldnt be successful with off meta

[dawn heath]

there was a META back then

[marble hemlock]

theres always a meta

doesnt mean its the best comp

[dawn heath]

so you are eargueing my comp

point

[runic hinge]

[keen spruce]

[dawn heath]

did we forget about this?

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/yapping-dragon-ball-dragon-ball-z-talking-cat-meowing-gif-5392431604456469183

[keen spruce]

[coral ibex]

[marble hemlock]

ive lost enough braincells already to try to argue with you, ive simply stated that chasing fotm and meta is cringe and we've seen plenty of cases of #1 keys being done with off-meta shit that ultimately led to a meta-shift

which is kinda fact

[dawn heath]

50% of dps slots is held by 2 secs

[runic hinge]

meta this meta that, you guys need to meta some bitches

[marble hemlock]

true

[scarlet coral]

TRUE

[keen spruce]

50% of these nuts being held by @runic hinge

[scarlet coral]

who's holding the other 50

[runic hinge]

shit stu finally yelled and I'm back on the pc

[dawn heath]

now you're the one humble bragging and proving my point funny how it goes full circle huh

bro's saying there wasnt a meta back then whe it was 2 specs who was in 50% of all top keys

[spice spire]

Me

[dawn heath]

BUT I DID IT ON ASSA

[marble hemlock]

please quote me where i said there was no meta

thanks

[hearty reef]

[royal lantern]

tbh, wow players are notorious for being VERY slow in noticing/changing the perceived strong stuff

like, enh shaman was bronen af since tww launch and it took over 2months until people actually started to notice and play it, cus they all went "yeha frost dk always everywhere"

[spice spire]

“I said there was no meta” - literally this comment

[marble hemlock]

fuck you quake

[spice spire]

[marble hemlock]

hope you stub a toe

[spice spire]

Promise?

[bronze pike]

i heated yp the christmas turkey

[fallow canopy]

where is my degenerate sin channel

[scarlet coral]

got his ass

[bronze pike]

theres no more

:(

[fallow canopy]

all this m+ talk is cooking me

[bronze pike]

i have to eat regular food until the 31st

[marble hemlock]

what do you usually eat? cat food?

[runic hinge]

everyone left to find a shifting sands weakaura

[bronze pike]

chicken

i just like turkey

[marble hemlock]

still waiting for the quote where i said there is no meta btw

[bronze pike]

and ive finally ran out

[bronze pike]

cause there is no qoute

[fallow canopy]

bro is scrolling furiously

[scarlet coral]

SCANNING

[dawn heath]

i said it's always been like this, and you said no it hasnt, but the fact that 50% of all keys were done with 2 specs that just disproves what you are saying entirely

[subtle tundra]

qqqqqqqqquakkeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

stroke my shit?

[bronze pike]

wow community limiting themselves to 1 meta comp despite multiple specs being able to do the same level of keys

[dawn heath]

people didnt invite anything othjer than rogue and havoc

[marble hemlock]

would rather stroke smth else of yours

[dawn heath]

it was double outlaw havoc

[bronze pike]

cause it can hide horrible play

[subtle tundra]

my ego?!?!

[bronze pike]

classic

[keen spruce]

You never addressed the fact that you could have googled a shifting sands WA in 3 seconds

[scarlet coral]

you got lotion on your shit?

[marble hemlock]

idk, we invited WW and did #1 keys with it. guess we just didnt know what we were doing

[keen spruce]

Instead of damaging all of our collective mental

[spice spire]

Hey

[hollow river]

where are we getting 50% from

[marble hemlock]

my entire point is that just cause there IS a meta

doesnt mean its the best comp

[dawn heath]

humble bragging?

[thin widget]

!shiv

[hearty reef]

Tf is an shifting sand chat

[dawn heath]

[thin widget]

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

[dawn heath]

guys but i timed a key without META SPEC THERE FOR THERE WASNT A META!!!

[bronze pike]

i also seen ret in peak keys as well

[spice spire]

Why are we stroking egos today

[spice spire]

Cope

[bronze pike]

surely that means ret was meta in bfa too right

[runic hinge]

what should we be stroking

[marble hemlock]

my entire argument is that meta chasing is cringe af. and by stating that, i actively confirm there IS a meta

[fallow canopy]

this feels like a setup

[marble hemlock]

are you too dense to understand that?

[bronze pike]

[keen spruce]

Stroke this

[dawn heath]

that is incorrect

just scroll up

[bronze pike]

im glad fh doesnt have to deal with this anymore

[keen spruce]

Can u just

Stfu

[bronze pike]

yall can keep aljan btw

[keen spruce]

[bronze pike]

our gift to yall

[marble hemlock]

dw hell be gone if assa isnt meta anymore

cant get title without fotm rerolling

[bronze pike]

https://tenor.com/view/christmas-cheer-christmas-tree-christmas-lights-snowing-christmas-spirit-gif-13966491799451558997

[hollow river]

[scarlet coral]

do you have the receipt I would like to return it

[coral ibex]

assa isn’t even meta, it’s just the top of the nonmeta stack

[bronze pike]

ehh ill give him this

he sticks to a class for awhile

[dawn heath]

ye assa is not meta at all

[bronze pike]

he was havoc for a giga while when it wasnt meta

[bronze pike]

no

[marble hemlock]

sounds like moving goalposts when its very much a sought after spec = and thus meta

[bronze pike]

[hearty reef]

Yep, 5th choice

[dawn heath]

its viable

[hearty reef]

Non meta

[keen spruce]

[subtle tundra]

we ignore the fact that the team with 3rd highest score is assa rogue

[marble hemlock]

2 rogues 1 boomie

[bronze pike]

not meta

[subtle tundra]

and 5th score is also rogue

[marble hemlock]

not meta ig

[coral ibex]

i’m not involved in this, it’s just incorrect to call assa meta when fdk/enh/aug have much higher representation

[bronze pike]

btw

[marble hemlock]

but boomie is

[marble hemlock]

representation graphs are kinda dogshit

[dawn heath]

i think that score is wrong there btw

[hearty reef]

Key logs

[marble hemlock]

when theyre not adjusted for playerbase size of each spec

[dawn heath]

or old not updated

[bronze pike]

the SOCRE

[hearty reef]

[bronze pike]

is WRONG

[keen spruce]

U can all just meta on my fuzzy nutsack

[marble hemlock]

youll naturally have more ret paladins at x amount of score, because there happens to be more ret paladins than any other spec in the game

[dawn heath]

theres plenty of eople above 3700 rn

[bronze pike]

okay okay

[dawn heath]

its not showing all teams for whatever reason

[bronze pike]

since clearly wlogs is in a holiday and not updating

we can wait

till it is updated

[marble hemlock]

psure wclogs doesnt have CN info, no?

[subtle tundra]

yarrgi swapped off rogue... rogue is not meta

[bronze pike]

i mean xeph is probably here

we can ping him and ask

[marble hemlock]

in any case

fuck meta chasers

cringe shit

[bronze pike]

real

honestly

so done with fotmers

[marble hemlock]

who gives a fuck about score

[bronze pike]

with bothj of my specs being fotm

[marble hemlock]

unless youre literally pushing #1 (and lmao who gives a fuck about that)

[bronze pike]

i hate it

[spice spire]

Buddy the only score I care about is me scoring ur buss

[bronze pike]

score this

[scarlet coral]

score some bitches

[marble hemlock]

whats your rio? if you want my bussy you better be 3k or up

[spice spire]

Miss me w that

[marble hemlock]

knew a guy once who put his rio on his tinder profile unironically

[spice spire]

2.7 Andy

[bronze pike]

gave a ret p[layer a log review and ignored everything i told him

replied with "whats you io" to my entire esssay

[fallow canopy]

ain't no way lmao

[scarlet coral]

that is based

wait was it aljan?

[marble hemlock]

got plenty of that in here

[bronze pike]

i can see that

its annoying

[royal lantern]

fake, varas is not there

[marble hemlock]

he is tho

[subtle tundra]

varas is washed bruv

[spice spire]

Any 3k ioers help me rq

[bronze pike]

what chu need bud

[spice spire]

Should I run forced induction or double vanish

[subtle tundra]

showered today(?)

[scarlet coral]

need a shifting sands weakaura?

[subtle tundra]

i lied

i havent

[marble hemlock]

imagine bragging with 3k io when i had 6k almost a decade ago already smh

[spice spire]

Nah I keep it musky for u king

[marble hemlock]

sorry to hear you got swampass

[subtle tundra]

oh this shit riles me up

[bronze pike]

run deeper stratigem

[spice spire]

[royal lantern]

imaging braging about 639ilvl when i was over 1k during legion

[subtle tundra]

i fucking hate when someone says "i got 5 million score in s3 wod"

[marble hemlock]

wdym

[subtle tundra]

what does that even mean?

[bronze pike]

bis for outl- i mean assassin

[subtle tundra]

you did what keys

compared ot highest

[marble hemlock]

i still look up to #1 warrior week 2 of s3 of DF godkingx Kungen

[dawn heath]

don't talk in chat unless you're atleast 500 + io

[hollow river]

[west crown]

then quit talking Aljan

[marble hemlock]

sjele trolled my vault or it wouldve been 7k

blud hearthstoned out after we wiped

[subtle tundra]

you keep track

[marble hemlock]

then came back in and we overtimed by like 3 minutes

[subtle tundra]

holy moly

[marble hemlock]

i remember

particularly cringe moments

[spice spire]

Damn Blud remembers my entire life

[bronze pike]

anyone else excited for motherloade?

[marble hemlock]

no

[subtle tundra]

yes

!

[royal lantern]

fuck no

[balmy condor]

Anyone got that new Chinese build

[bronze pike]

but its bis goblin dungeon

[royal lantern]

and workshop #3

[bronze pike]

https://tenor.com/view/it's-over-it's-genuinely-over-trout-trout-dying-trout-it's-over-gif-4267717049801794134

[subtle tundra]

i cant wait to play theater

[spice spire]

Yeah I’m excited to load @balmy condor ‘s mother

[subtle tundra]

BLIZZARD WHO ASKED FOR TOP

[tawdry crypt]

Dude just linked legion io

[subtle tundra]

WHO

[tawdry crypt]

[spice spire]

(I cooked her a week’s worth of food)

[hearty reef]

Build of what

[spice spire]

Buddy I ask for top every day

[bronze pike]

you dont get it

theater of pain is bis

[runic hinge]

yeah i got you

[bronze pike]

best dungeon

[balmy condor]

Idk I’m sure they’re building something

[royal lantern]

i know that this is acient history for yellow names

[dawn heath]

we're digging deep now

[subtle tundra]

shit man i want to get beaten by a baddie

GRASAWRGRTHG

[bronze pike]

the dungeon they appolgize for btw

and its back

[marble hemlock]

cant wait for tanks to die to triple peacekeeper 9/10 keys

or get grease gunned

[bronze pike]

we can live all our favorite moments from shadowlands

[marble hemlock]

over and over again

[subtle tundra]

be real, they will rework a lot of this shit

[marble hemlock]

loved dying to grease gun 4 times in 30 seconds

[bronze pike]

you can rework shit

but its still shit

[marble hemlock]

the one without deathmark? ye its bussin

[spice spire]

Buddy I got you with a grease gun

[bronze pike]

grease this

[subtle tundra]

can you link

[bronze pike]

[subtle tundra]

deathmark overrated

[marble hemlock]

you cant greasegun my asshole as hard as in that one run

[scarlet coral]

that is a bespoke build

[warm sleet]

Lol what do they take instead of death mark?

[marble hemlock]

[runic hinge]

ancient chinese tech

[bronze pike]

this godtier talent

sleeper really

[marble hemlock]

i did not expect someone to bite

[subtle tundra]

it makes kb so op

[marble hemlock]

youd think saying "the oen without deathmark" would make it seem so obviously bait

[subtle tundra]

fr though remove kb

[bronze pike]

new engine hidden by tcers

cause the tcers only want the masses to play what they want to play

[fallow canopy]

rate my build king

[bronze pike]

duh

[balmy condor]

2024 is a weird time in here

[marble hemlock]

ye

[fallow canopy]

can I push +21 with that one

[marble hemlock]

doubt 2025 is gonna be any better tho

[bronze pike]

10/10

[marble hemlock]

maybe if we finally get a TCer who does m+

we can figure out how to be meta

[bronze pike]

my time has come

[marble hemlock]

no

[royal lantern]

varas for green

[bronze pike]

whispyr give me purple name

i deserve it

[subtle tundra]

what if i stop playing vigor + tea to get forced induction

[balmy condor]

Incredible, love the survivability, bold choice. Have you considered maybe taking internal bleeding instead

[bronze pike]

i am the shadowest of blades

[spice spire]

That’s what you think

[bronze pike]

y u hatin

[balmy condor]

True damn

[marble hemlock]

okay

[fallow canopy]

I just feel like not taking caustic is kinda troll you know

I'm doing serious business here

[marble hemlock]

quake talking about greasegunning my butthole while whispyr talks about internal bleeding

[warm sleet]

It's missing fatebound, but other than that it's lit af

[bronze pike]

nah caustic is weak

[marble hemlock]

is not a combo i had on my bingo card

[bronze pike]

weaker than blade flurry

[strange python]

I miss times when 2x vanish was dog and all we did is argue with people asking why zerocool does it

[spice spire]

Talking about?

[bronze pike]

and now people dont play douhble vanish anymore

when its good

love it

[balmy condor]

Yeah now we have the same convo but with iron wire

[marble hemlock]

its the same shit as always

[strange python]

I can’t believe iron wire is a topic again

[marble hemlock]

the people who can do those things arent the ones asking the question, and the ones who do ask the question should just follow a fucking guide build

[balmy condor]

Real

[strange python]

I haven’t been active in sin channel in a while, do people really argue iron wire

Holy shit

[runic hinge]

every day

[balmy condor]

Yes

[spice spire]

Yes

[balmy condor]

Constantly

[strange python]

I remember when everyone was saying iron wire was the reason sin is „meta“

When it was just a lil bonus

[marble hemlock]

that couldve never been possible

[strange python]

And wasn’t what made sin „meta“

[balmy condor]

Yeah now iron wire is unnecessary cause prot paladin

[marble hemlock]

because 95% of the nonrogue population dont have the slightest clue wtf iron wire is

[hollow river]

this fucking conversation made it's way to #pvp the other day

[royal lantern]

nah, we are at the "priority dmg is the only thung that matters" stage rn

and ib is "more prio dmg"

[balmy condor]

Or something

[strange python]

Oh nice prot paladin makes iron wire bad got it

[dawn heath]

i mean yea you can get away with not playing iron wire in cordinated groups with prot palas, but in every other setting it should be a default pick

[hollow river]

[hearty reef]

Good argument when you cant top overall anymore

[fallow canopy]

damn this is why I don't earn the big bucks

[strange python]

How much of a gain is dropping iw?

.5?

[balmy condor]

Silence in PvP sucks they just dwarf it and you get full combo’d (I have no idea what I’m talking about)

[dawn heath]

about 5% overall

[marble hemlock]

sub rogue since legion

[dawn heath]

4-5% dps

[strange python]

5% sounds a bit too much

[hollow river]

no i mean they were talking about iron wire in m+ down there

[dawn heath]

its not

[strange python]

Can someone confirm

[midnight mist]

guys

[dawn heath]

its closer to 4%

[balmy condor]

Jesus

[midnight mist]

what talents

for damage

[marble hemlock]

assa talents

[royal lantern]

damage talents

[midnight mist]

okok ty seli

ty tryan

[marble hemlock]

[hollow river]

and i had to argue that you still take IW in m+ even though murlok.io only shows 5 people using it

[strange python]

Acrobatic Strikes

[balmy condor]

Yeah, 4-5% is around right, you can grab talents like sanguine

[marble hemlock]

what kind of damage? emotional damage?

[hollow river]

[scarlet coral]

I miss her

[hearty reef]

Crimson Tempetst

[marble hemlock]

if i were still playing highkeys, id play troll talents just so whispyr has to asnwer in here about it

https://tenor.com/view/mark-phillips-instiagtor-gif-22728638

[fallow canopy]

remember when we had bigger issues? like not taking acro for Nymue

good times

[balmy condor]

Okay so Murlok shows no one using it and you’re saying use it, so you must be some kind of dumbass eh? Why would murlok not show it then

[marble hemlock]

also, whats your score notrickz?

cuz if youre not at least 4.5k why are you even talking

[hollow river]

basically

[runic hinge]

me when im on the way to misinformation competition and my opponent gave me the wrong address

[hollow river]

ZERO

[coral ibex]

i thought score was like in golf, lower is better?

[marble hemlock]

streamer#27 does it and he3 has higher score

[balmy condor]

You don’t have to do that, it’s literally my daily life in here

[bronze pike]

halarious

[marble hemlock]

ye but itd be funnier for me when im the cause

[coral ibex]

you: large, ugly, fat io
me: cute, petite, fashionable small io

[balmy condor]

“When do I swap sudden demise for twist the knife”
You don’t
“But I saw…..”

[coral ibex]

💅🏿

[fallow canopy]

I don't pvp but surely IW is goated there no?

[marble hemlock]

whats the threshold for breedable io?

[strange python]

Can someone time a high-ish key without deathmark pls so I can link the run

[dawn heath]

2700

[strange python]

On like a Tuesday night

[hollow river]

yes. i mean the conversation around taking it in m+ happened in the pvp channel

[coral ibex]

can't have io above 0

[fallow canopy]

oh that's even weirder ig

[balmy condor]

Damn I’m breedable

My twink death has been pushed back another patch

[marble hemlock]

only if you do your uwu voice

[dawn heath]

Weekly 10 enjoyers

[strange python]

I wouldn’t call it enjoyment

But yea

[fallow canopy]

at this point there is no enjoyment

[dawn heath]

True

[keen spruce]

I did my first 14 on my warlock

I enjoyed

[balmy condor]

Rather weekly 10’s over weekly queue simulator

[marble hemlock]

why

[hearty reef]

Sorry i cringe not seeing each of my KB not at 50

[keen spruce]

Game fun idk

[strange python]

Shmeeps

That’s worth 14 tacos

[keen spruce]

[marble hemlock]

youre having fun the wrong way bud

[strange python]

[keen spruce]

I had so many tacos

Two nights ago

[balmy condor]

Okay normally I can handle a ton of shitposting but this one actually made me start tweaking irl

[marble hemlock]

fish tacos?

[keen spruce]

No more tacos

Carnitas and Al pastor

[strange python]

Without me and @glacial crypt ????

[hearty reef]

You clearly never stepped into weekly 15s hoping group sticks around for the 16 territory

[keen spruce]

Y’all didn’t get the invites in the mail?

[marble hemlock]

is that the modern equivalent of "saving key for jay"?

[bronze pike]

10s are fun tbh

better than 6-7 prison

[keen spruce]

12s fun

No affix

[bronze pike]

oh right

[balmy condor]

Yeah well you’ve clearly never had a loving father so how bout that

[bronze pike]

i should atleast try that

[keen spruce]

And u get 20 crests per if you’re on an alt

[strange python]

No… you are using HR excuses on me… how the mighty have fallen

[spice spire]

Have you

[hearty reef]

Have you

[balmy condor]

My father loves other things