assassination

[lavish geyser]

XD

[limber lion]

We don't refer to people by their real names

[lavish geyser]

His ign was arakeen. at least in wow

but idk, I dont assume simmers have to be CE, do you think?

[limber lion]

The guy was called Arakeen?

That's definitely a nobody then

[strange python]

Eh not necessarily but also someone doing it for echo you’d expect that AT LEAST

Because CE

Which sounds very elitist

[lavish geyser]

Idk I just trust ppl

XD

[strange python]

Really isn’t a lot

(I know it’s a lot for a lot of people)

[lavish geyser]

its just time commitment

tbh

[strange python]

But in the scheme we are talking which is a person simming for Echo

Id guess the guy would have enough love for the game to have ce

[limber lion]

Yeah you got bamboozled

Unlucky

[lavish geyser]

well that is all good. I had a fun time imagining it 🙂

[strange python]

Wild that someone is just going around telling people he’s an analyst for echo tho

In a casual guild

[limber lion]

Plenty of weirdos in the world

[lavish geyser]

Idk i just didnt think that would be a thing to lie abt

[strange python]

Well that depends on your imagination about simming

Simming specific things isn’t easy

[lavish geyser]

I know its alot

Like hard work

But like, its not a crazy title, would you say?

[limber lion]

Being an analyst for echo?

That definitely is a crazy title

[lavish geyser]

I would have that said that i was a strategy guy, orrr

a wa maker

something like that

[strange python]

I have never done those sims but

[drifting cloud]

then its even easier for them to tell youre lying

[strange python]

I think simming specific bosses

Is very fucking hard

[lavish geyser]

Even if I tell them that I am Liquid RL?

[strange python]

Especially at that level

[drifting cloud]

my GM actually makes was for liquid, hes pretty known in the community by now

[lavish geyser]

But lemme ask you

[drifting cloud]

[lavish geyser]

How do you guys know that he isnt that? not that I dont beleive you+

[strange python]

Bart is your gm?

[drifting cloud]

yeah

[strange python]

Sick

[limber lion]

Did we not just go over this discussion?

[lavish geyser]

no, you just said it was a nobody

do you have thoose connections, from RWF days?🧐

[limber lion]

Yes and even without that, it is very easy to know

You can literally google your guys name

And nothing shows up

[strange python]

What was your guys pull count on brood? Must’ve been a vibe with him as gm

[lavish geyser]

ok

[limber lion]

If he's an analyst, he would pop up in Echo's website

[lavish geyser]

Can you google a simmers name?

[limber lion]

Also, their analyst is not called Arakee or whatever

Also why are you saying simmer now

You said analyust

which one is it lol

[lavish geyser]

yoo bro, I hope you arent getting pressed

[strange python]

This is a bit pointless

[limber lion]

Yep

Very

[drifting cloud]

uhh like 90, but we didnt kill it week2 when it was still hard hard

[keen spruce]

I’m wish cev would get pressed against me

[lavish geyser]

Well idk wouldnt you call a dude who compiles data and analyses it, an analyst?

[limber lion]

Hello Wish

[keen spruce]

Goddamnit

[lavish geyser]

A genuine question btw, idk if it a dude who sims has a specific title

[limber lion]

:-)

[strange python]

I think most of the people with a bit of experience can tell you he wasn’t doing anything for echo as a rl of some heroic guild

I don’t wanna shatter your view

But that’s not happening

[limber lion]

Basically most of the RWF raiders do their own sims and know how to sim

[lavish geyser]

my view is not shattered, I dont run with them, and I did for a short time

[limber lion]

There isn't a guy that sims for them

If there is something super specific that they need, they'll just have one of the more experienced players in the guild do the simming for them

[lavish geyser]

aah ok. 🙂 I thought they were kinda told what to farm. Not having to do it themselves

[limber lion]

Or sometimes reach out to communities, like Ravenholdt for help

It's not exactly rocketscience

And a very basic thing to know how to do at that level

[drifting cloud]

yeah, Azor said Roger would hit him up often

so happens often

[limber lion]

Yeah and we've had people hit us up in the past as well a bunch

[lavish geyser]

Someone disagrees with ya

simming seems hard

[strange python]

I am talking specific sins

Sims*

Not

[limber lion]

Again, we're talking different levels here

[lavish geyser]

if you do some custom stuff

[strange python]

Looking for what to farm

^^

[drifting cloud]

whispyr did some custom sims for smolderon

[strange python]

Yes that’s what I’m Talking about

[limber lion]

Yeah, back in Shadowlands I used to have custom sims for every boss basically

[drifting cloud]

but it was whatever at the end because dps check wasnt that hard for them

[lavish geyser]

sims and specific sims is not the same?

[drifting cloud]

think they did some kyveza cooking this tier with exile

[limber lion]

Sludgefist sims were bangers

[drifting cloud]

that boss was something alright

[lavish geyser]

so for custums sims you have guys that do that? like deciding races and comp for bosses=

[limber lion]

No

[lavish geyser]

damn

[strange python]

Not necessarily

[lavish geyser]

XD

[limber lion]

Races are decided on an encounter basis

Depending on what's needed

And is usually a late addition if needed

Races are basically only for utility

Not a dps thing

And sims are only for dps

[lavish geyser]

so noone plays void elf for that dmg racial?

[limber lion]

No

[lavish geyser]

it would be more that they cant get interrupted

while casting

or something like that

[limber lion]

Comps are decided around game balance in general and what's needed on what fight

You need all the raid buffs, so you're forced to pick one of each class basically

But outside of that it depends on what is strong and what is not

[strange python]

Let’s make more roots on bosses so you can just stay gnome forever if ur one of the unfortunate classes

[drifting cloud]

lets not

[lavish geyser]

No gnome man

Looks = bis. now way they don thave transmoggers for ya as well. Since a good mog accounts for a lot of dam

[strange python]

Let’s also let dwarves keep dispell and make an endboss that just throws dispells at people 24/7

[lavish geyser]

I wish they made racials something that you can choose. To a certain extend ig. Im just tired of playing Nelf

I rly like belf

or velf

[strange python]

Play it then bro

[lavish geyser]

@limber lion What guild did you play for?

[strange python]

Like

It was method iirc

[lavish geyser]

Idk I use meld for stealth pretty consistently

not like meld > vanish, but I still use it alot in dungeons

[strange python]

Sure it has a use no doubt

[lavish geyser]

Or in Gb being able to just remove first boss swirlie placement

[limber lion]

Method, Memento, Korruptio etc

[strange python]

But I doubt you are doing keys where it makes or breaks the key

[lavish geyser]

as a rogue, I assume? or ig you play alot of different classes

[strange python]

So play for vibes

[limber lion]

The Finnish guilds were a vibe, no set schedule, no forced alts

and still top 20 every time

[strange python]

Much more fun

[limber lion]

Rogue only yea

[drifting cloud]

the rise of Cev in shadowlands

into burnout quit

[limber lion]

Big

[drifting cloud]

or well youre RS main so I guess that counts

[strange python]

To follow up on this I don’t do these kind of keys myself I don’t wanna sound like i do

[limber lion]

this is me now

[strange python]

Glow up

[lavish geyser]

It basically never make or breakes the key. But no, it started as outlaw. It super cool that you just get another crackshot window. and made uptime better in thoose annoying situtations, where you are forced to loose it

[strange python]

Isn’t it the case that nelf never worked for outlaw

[lavish geyser]

nope

worked

[strange python]

That’s the last thing I heard from Jpc before he quit the game

[lavish geyser]

You just cant use bte as the first gcd after, otherwise it went on cd. Still mega worth

[strange python]

I‘m pretty sure nelf didn’t work with crackshot for a very long time

Might work now

It didn’t after crackshot got added that’s for sure

His stream title was „DONT PLAY NELF“ for like a month

[lavish geyser]

it didnt actually. cause I talked abt it during remix ( in the disc) and everyone was like, no it doesnt work. And I showed that it worked. Ofc drawf is just as good, so didnt change much. But yeah it works

[lavish geyser]

how on earth do you RWF being an otp?

[drifting cloud]

1 rogue atleast = usually good, be very good at rogue

[strange python]

Lots of otps in rwf

Well I think echo went away from that a bit

[lavish geyser]

Heard meress or however you spell his name, the echo dude. He said that like if you only wanted to play mage, but you could easily run these RWF runs, you wouldnt get in

[strange python]

Echo is a bit different on that ye

But you won’t catch firedup ever having to play anything besides mage for liquid

Or Atlas dk

Or avade dh

[lavish geyser]

what abt the rogue

[strange python]

Theres just people that are really fucking insane

[static glacier]

have an opportunity to roll warrior for next tier, it's one class i've never really mained or alted in a significant capacity

[lavish geyser]

he is pretty good as well. right?

[strange python]

Which one

Exile?

[limber lion]

Perfecto, Imexile, Kush, Speed

[drifting cloud]

echo has 2 rogue mains

[limber lion]

Plenty of Rogue otp's

The guilds basically recruit a class

[static glacier]

I've memory of two of them playing other classes, but yeah there are rogue "mains" in rwf

[strange python]

Ye idk lorgokz reasoning from echo that he’s a boomie onetrick was a bit weird

But there was prob more reasons

That were undisclosed

[lavish geyser]

What abt that danish dude, mage player and aug for keys. Only know he is danish cause I am as well. And ofc you can hear it, hella hard when he speaks XD. But he got banned for having rotation cheats, turned out he was just goated

XD

[static glacier]

issue with boomie one trick is it's 1 spec vs rogue all specs

[limber lion]

Yeah, it's changed a bit very recently

[lavish geyser]

so some of em are benched for certain bosses? or are they all just fighting to stay in for the whole race?

[strange python]

Uh

[drifting cloud]

thats the part where class balance comes in

[static glacier]

I Think there's classes where rogue skills are transferable

[drifting cloud]

or just fight design

[strange python]

Theres no set answer for that

[static glacier]

and just general melee gameplay is transferable too

like speed likes playing ww

[limber lion]

You have some players who play many classes to a high level, and some players who play a single class to a godtier level

[lavish geyser]

Nono, I mean like, there are 2 only dudes rogues. How do you decide who gets to play?

[limber lion]

And if you had to choose a godtier rogue vs someone alting a rogue, you're obviously picking the godtier rogue

[drifting cloud]

they both play other classes at rwf level aswell

[limber lion]

But with OTP comes the issue that sometimes you just get benched because it's bad or you don't get loot

[strange python]

Many factors

[drifting cloud]

theyre just known as rogue "mains"

[strange python]

Can also be gear

[limber lion]

Like Perfecto in Sanctum of Domination

[static glacier]

they'll probably talk it out and whoever is more comfortable on the fotm melee they'd roll to probably plays it?

[limber lion]

He was in the hotel room crying

because he couldn't play

[strange python]

Jpc almost didn’t make the cut in sepulcher

Because unlucko on gear

[static glacier]

I don't remember the rwf much but I do remember sub being absolutely great

was it that hard to get daggers from splits?

[drifting cloud]

he didnt drop the correct gems

lol

[limber lion]

Yeah

[static glacier]

BRUH

[limber lion]

No shards

[static glacier]

fuck the gems

[lavish geyser]

And that could be if he had like 1 item that was higher ilvl or something?

[static glacier]

what was it at start? uh then blood became metta?

[drifting cloud]

and it was cleared week1

[strange python]

Well sanctum shards were a bit different

[drifting cloud]

for them

[limber lion]

No, it was because of Shards of Domination mechanic

[strange python]

It’s a good bit more than just an item

[limber lion]

If you didn't have the borrowed power, you were useless

[lavish geyser]

idk what that is XD. is it a class thing? Cause like I wondered how they choose which rogue main got to play. not if the rogue class got to play or not

[static glacier]

issue was different specs wanted different gems too

sin / law were frost

sub wasn't

[strange python]

Again that depends on the tier/gear/comp

It’s not like there isn’t bosses where 2 rogues weren’t Bus

Bis*

[limber lion]

That was a weeks into the season though

Everyone played shadow the first few weeks

[lavish geyser]

what does rogue bring to raid?

[strange python]

Atrophic

But back then

[limber lion]

Damage

[lavish geyser]

aah yes

ofc

[strange python]

There were a lot less raid buffs

Than now

„A lot“

There were less

Which opens more slots

So if rogue = big damage

You bring more rogue

[lavish geyser]

when did you RWF @limber lion was it when it first started? when it was kinda unoffcial?

[lavish geyser]

rogue BIG dam

[static glacier]

ye true

[limber lion]

Huh?

When what was unofficial?

RWF has been a thing for like 15 years

[lavish geyser]

yes, when it was guilds just posting on yt

[strange python]

Rwf has been a thing for a very long time

[limber lion]

Not really sure what you're saying

[lavish geyser]

I saw a yt vid abt how it started

[strange python]

He probably means

Since rwf started to get streamed

And got sponsors

And whatnot

[lavish geyser]

yes

[limber lion]

Which was like in Mists of Pandaria or whatever

So 10+ years ago

[strange python]

Ye

[lavish geyser]

I think so ig

[strange python]

Been a long time

[limber lion]

I played in Shadowlands

[strange python]

Which is also when it became a very big thing iirc

Like massively bigger

[lavish geyser]

was that fun? heard shadowlands wasnt the most crazy expac. But the raids looked very cool

[strange python]

COVID n shit people had time to watch

[lavish geyser]

like SoD

[limber lion]

I loved Shadowlands personally because of everything that happened during that expansion

And I had time to play and whatnot

[drifting cloud]

even Korthia? (you legally have to say no)

[limber lion]

Fuck Korthia

[strange python]

Idk shadowlands was just gutted by the way systems worked, they were good systems when they decided to stop gating them

Convenants were cool

When you were able to swap around freely

[limber lion]

Many Method boys had 2 accounts just for Korthia so they can have their alt follow them around while they kill rares and whatnot

[lavish geyser]

heard that legendaries were kinda annoying

[drifting cloud]

it got better once assa became a spec

[lavish geyser]

or something

[strange python]

Thorghast was good if it wasn’t tied to power

[lavish geyser]

I played very little

But I really like the worlds

[limber lion]

Based

And true

[drifting cloud]

even I couldnt play assa in CN, it was just illegal

I did kill sire once as assa before the buffs where we played zoldyck lego for p3 dmg

[lavish geyser]

well, imma head to bed. Good talking to ya, 🙂

[amber brook]

Does having the different colored gem make a difference between just using the same gem?

[limber lion]

Yes if you use the primary gem

[drifting cloud]

its very small difference, varies per char, you can force the combo in sims and just tick like 10 different gems before it tells you you cant select more

[amber brook]

Sims telling me to go full deadly 3 different colored gem, 1 mainly being deadly oynx, ignoring the vers gem entirely

[drifting cloud]

just dont click any of the vers ones or whatever

[limber lion]

Looks like I had 5-6 clears as Sub before touching Assa and then did like 2 clears with Assa

Even killed SLG with Outlaw for the first time lmao

The only Mythic boss I've ever prog'd as Outlaw

[drifting cloud]

I sat sludge and slg, prolly only time I sat 2 bosses back to back in this guild

in 7 years

[limber lion]

Good choice

SLG was the worst

[vast loom]

SLG basically killed my old guild lol

[brazen wedge]

can we wear fist weps in off hand or we have to have 2 daggers?

[vast loom]

2 daggwrs

[brave comet]

when the dashes through you giving you the orbs in princess, is there a window of time in which you can dps her before going to orb locations?

[spice surge]

Yes but also no because if you get unlucky dagger spawns you wont get out in time

[balmy condor]

Or just cloak the charge

[spice surge]

But also if you use cloak before the charge you wont get the debuff

[balmy condor]

:3

[spice surge]

Ye exactly

[brave comet]

how does that work, cloak it before she hits me with the dash?

[lyric solstice]

any reccomended youtubers that talk through their rotation etc while doing keys

[crude anvil]

on ansurek does anyone else have trouble getting deathstalkers mark back before phasing?

[spice surge]

Yes

[balmy condor]

Just hold it

[slim pebble]

I hope this ring stays bad so I don’t have to farm it

[coral ibex]

same

[slim pebble]

I’m barely doing one key a week RN in addition to prog, I CBA

[spice spire]

Buddy

You can’t do my goat like this

[abstract chasm]

o /

[shy creek]

Its done

Finally

lfg

[royal python]

Is cheat death useless on mythic kyveza?

[spice spire]

Yes

[snow kindle]

both good if you 630+ tho it aint that essential

[keen spruce]

idk how to do damage on asurek

[coral ibex]

a lot of people bind abilities to buttons they press on their keyboard after targeting the boss

[gloomy heart]

i need a mythic guild thats needs a rog!

[spice spire]

Casual btw

[brave comet]

i'm unsure, how does evasion actually work?

[spice spire]

Wdym

[brave comet]

i dont understand it, if evasion increases your dodge chance by 100%

wouldnt that mean you take 0% damage, so what does this exactly mean, since this passive decreases damage taken by 20%

[coral ibex]

some things you can't dodge

like targeted effects

[keen spruce]

heroic ansurek

[coral ibex]

or ground aoes

[brave comet]

so like for example, daggers/orbs in kyveza would do no damage to you?

but the pizza will kill you?

[coral ibex]

huh

[keen spruce]

can't dodge those

[coral ibex]

no

you can dodge attacks

[keen spruce]

dodge is for like auto attacks or things that are treated like auto attacks

so like the breath on first boss of NW

is treated like an auto for some reason

[brave comet]

oh so basically for when the tank is dead and youre fixated?

[keen spruce]

that does nature damge

so you can evasion it

you normally use it for the DR on stuff you can't dodge

you're rarely using it as a pseudo immunity

[spice spire]

Oh dog

P1 you blast

P2 and beyond you’re in pain

Hope this helps

0 damage can be done

Everything dies

[ember mural]

[brave comet]

like when the enemies in the third boss room of NW are chasing you around right?

[spice spire]

Uh so that previously worked

Does not work here

[brave comet]

is there a list i can look at that tells me what this works on?

some spreadsheet or whatever

[spice spire]

Nop

Took too much work

[keen spruce]

yeah it's supposed to work on the fixate

[spice spire]

It’s a lot of trial and error

[keen spruce]

but it don't

[keen spruce]

no spreadsheet but if you got to the subtley section of icyveins

they have some dungeon specific tips

that include defensives

and most of it applies to assas

[coral ibex]

on god you just send on cd in p1 and pray

hope you skip the 3rd pops

and then get close to a full kb on one of the p2 adds

dont take my word for it tho i suck fr

[gloomy heart]

Whats the bst way to find a home (guild)

[runic hinge]

I got a 90 on our first kill

[coral ibex]

i used raider.io

filtered for guilds at my prog

applied to the ones playing when i want to play

[gloomy heart]

only worried abt ppl seeing my terrible mythic parses

bc of lfg

my heroic ones are fine

[pale socket]

dont worry about it

if theyre fussed about that sort of thing, is that really the vibe and atmosphere you want to be stuck in anyways?

[gloomy heart]

Yeah true

[dapper cradle]

Toxic guilds go hard

Just be more toxic

[coral ibex]

i just recently left a toxic guild with a turbo racist RL

was a weird experience

[pale socket]

oof lol

always awkward when the act of balancing the want to progress with personal morals arise

[dapper cradle]

When you’re about to get CE, but your raid lead starts talking about skull shapes, iq, and race

[pale socket]

https://tenor.com/view/indecisive-i-dont-know-not-sure-larry-david-gif-5682454

[balmy condor]

So based

If they complain that you’re padding you just call them a slur and link details in raid chat

Works sometimes

[silk sundial]

Working on kyveza prog. Should you use cloak if you get targeted by a dash? I noticed you dont take dmg and you also dont get queens bane. Or are you better off saving cloak for intermission?

[balmy condor]

Cloaking intermission is technically the self-less thing to do

Cause you don’t mess up other people with your blaze

[silk sundial]

so feint dash, maybe use evasion too for the magic dr, and save cloak for blaze?

[balmy condor]

Yeah

I was next to tanks

So I get to cloak the dash

:3

[silk sundial]

any other kyveza tips other than dont die?

[bright tartan]

she is an ethereal

[coral ibex]

[pale socket]

gratzz

[gloomy heart]

PARSE?

[coral ibex]

12 died on the last dispel

no personals left

[pale socket]

lol progression is progression

[runic hinge]

Boss deadge

[pale socket]

[coral ibex]

we're winging queen for 30 mins

[pale socket]

get ittt. 3rd time is the charm

30 mins is plenty

[coral ibex]

can you double up breaking out of snares with either cloak or vanish

or only 1 each

[pale socket]

send both what's to lose

(1 each i assume)

[past bobcat]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rotund oak]

Number of Gilded Harbinger Crests needed to purchase a Nascent Gilded Harbinger Crest reduced to 60 (was 90).

nicu,now im gonna farm gear on ym hunter as well

[golden loom]

Very nice change

[glacial stump]

They listened to us

[deft vault]

On mythic queen we need 12 person total for essence in p3 right? 3 for first 4 for second and 5 for third?

[drifting cloud]

youre not gonna see the 3rd one

[graceful solstice]

3 for 1st, 7 for 2nd, skip the 3rd

[deft vault]

yeah but i mean new people

so like 3 4 5

3 7 12 total

[graceful solstice]

she only spawns 4

they nerfed that

so 3 4 4

but again, you shouldn't be seeing the 3rd essences

[gloomy heart]

Is it a huge damage loss to drop MA, feel like saving my vanish for reapplying and for chain pulling tanks ?

[west crown]

MA is really good, using it for cds is optimal but not that impactful on dps overall vs having it for chainpulls

[gloomy heart]

I am gonna start pushing keys i just want the best overall i can have

[solar wyvern]

Boys

I love this talebt

[gloomy heart]

prefeint where

[keen spruce]

tempered should not be hitting you that hard on that boss lmao

man used your ass as a defensive

and took a hit full natty

[sullen phoenix]

guys i am naerly full myth gear but my stats are crit: 27% haste: 6% mastery: 56% should i invest more into haste for ST/overall performance?

[drifting cloud]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[solar wyvern]

Both he and i got targetted by the dispel, he sure did use me as a defensive lmfao

[solar wyvern]

You can see it in the picture 😦

[keen spruce]

even prefeinted the tempered in battle

[solar wyvern]

I am simply built different

Hehe

[west crown]

The answer is always sim

[solar wyvern]

(built like a floor)

[solar wyvern]

Also you converted to christmas too nice

[keen spruce]

[drifting cloud]

putrid waters is "bugged"

and you have to actually feint before it goes out for it to apply

would still have killed you in this case tho

[royal lantern]

you need to feint before the boss finishes the cast

not when the projectiles are in the air

otherwhise feint doesnt work

[west crown]

I mean he would have had a chance to survive if not for the paladin

[sullen phoenix]

should i use stat weight for sim or its broken?

[normal mist]

No

Just sim your gear

That simple

Top gear

[sullen phoenix]

got it

[normal mist]

Whatever the bot says is better, you use it

[sullen phoenix]

thats handy 🙂

[normal mist]

Dungeonslice for m+
Patchwerk for st

[subtle tundra]

look what happened in 18 db
tempered -> into random dot -> into 1 tick of beam.... all in .37s

I WANT TO BE TOUCHED

[normal mist]

I skip and double it for the next person

[rotund oak]

i mean

ok

[prisma scaffold]

Hi everyone, for m plus dungeons is sacbrood better or spy glass atm?

[winged sun]

I think spyglass has uptime issues in keys i heard

Maybe stick with sacbrood if the sim isn’t that far off

[unborn pendant]

Me when I'm leveling in TW

[midnight mist]

doesnt it reset when you pull boss or smth like that idk

[winged sun]

Casualaddict said u barely have uptime on it idk

[midnight mist]

its a weird trinket anywya

cause you cant target swap

[prisma scaffold]

Noted. And between sacbrood and dawnbreaker trinket. Should i just stick to sacbrood even if it sims lower in aoe?

[blazing pumice]

Dawn breaker trinket is slightly better

if equal ilvl

[subtle tundra]

You build stacks with fok

Anyways

[winged sun]

Dawn is rly good

Play dawn

It has rly high uptime

Its great for keys

[prisma scaffold]

Thank you i will then 😁

[winged sun]

Np

[midnight mist]

oh ye true assa can do that

for otl its weird

[subtle tundra]

You're weird

[winged sun]

no u

[midnight mist]

ya

[royal lantern]

what, you can

[dusk hatch]

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

[royal lantern]

jfc whats wrong with mobile discord, replys happening with a insane delay

[midnight mist]

ye its just as outalw

where you cant

[royal lantern]

common yathzee pirate L

[sharp viper]

has whispyr neglected you recently?

[stiff vine]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CKZRQY2VrF1G7TBD?fight=27&type=damage-done

is anyone about to have a look at my H sikran kill from last night & see where i can improve?
I understand its heroic but it was a decent quick single target fight & is probably the best one for me to analyse.
any help is much appreciated

[cold zealot]

Guys do i pick myth boralus ring from the vault? i hear the new ring wont be that good. My other option is myth tier chest.

[glacial stump]

Boralus ring very nice stats, what you got atm ?

[cold zealot]

@glacial stump same but 626, other ring is crit mastery from grim batol myth

[glacial stump]

Meh, sim angle i think

[glacial stump]

Opener is a little off. Some of your dots arent up going into your KB/DM windows. You didnt use any tea

Or you did use tea from running out of energy, send it with shiv

Also if youre gonna vanish and apply garrote, do it within your burst window, not out of it

[rotund oak]

for m+ ideally we want overpowering crystal+skadryns every other trinket u should jsut sim

knife from delves on hero track also good

[stiff vine]

send a tea with shiv for the mastery even if i have plenty of energy? @glacial stump

i vanished there because the fight wasnt lasting 2minutes

[clever sapphire]

2 garrotes is kinda wasted in opener, fok doesnt do anything either, you seem to press shiv after your kb meaning your kb doesnt have full shiv cover. You pressed vanish randomly for imp garrote imma assume, which is also a waste
You want to vanish last 6 seconds of your Dm+KB window so your kb gets increased crit chance
Your 2nd kb at 1:18 doesnt have envenom going into it, you shiv late again, your 2nd shiv in that kb window is too late so 3 ticks or so arent covered by shiv
also bad kill time since you are close to 2nd cooldowns

[clever sapphire]

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

[clever sapphire]

just do this

[clever sapphire]

(ignore the thing about the first fan of knives, thats wrong from me, you should fok there)

[novel star]

you're forcing 7 combo points for every finisher it seems

dont do that

[clever sapphire]

how does this work

my brain cant comprehend how he did this

[novel star]

parry

[clever sapphire]

ah

fackin parry

[novel star]

also just lost a cast of tea

and vanish wrong

consistently shivving after kingsbane is wrong, its like whatever but its wrong

i think murlock said all this tho

[clever sapphire]

i didnt mention the tea part

but ye

[stiff vine]

i spend on 6 but not 5, should i spend on 5?

[novel star]

yes

assassination doesnt build to 6cp

[clever sapphire]

spend is 5+

[novel star]

outlaw and sub do

sin does not

because of mutilate having innate 2cp gen + 2 crit rolls

mut on 5 is bad

[clever sapphire]

only time you have to force 7 is for the DS thingy

[stiff vine]

i see i see

big noobie here big thank you

[clever sapphire]

(unless you are playing echoing and you have the extra cp so you can still finish at 5 i guess)

[novel star]

and what is this

dont do this

[stiff vine]

2 garrotes for extra improved garrote timer not worth in opener? i thought this would be a good idea

[novel star]

we arent playing bfa anymore

[stiff vine]

yessir

[novel star]

but yea

[clever sapphire]

garrote dmg is kinda whatever

[novel star]

the thing is

[clever sapphire]

also you are pressing vanish mid cooldowns normally so you refresh it there

[novel star]

all you gain from that is the pandemic time on garrote

[clever sapphire]

so DM is still covered

[novel star]

but the problem is

if you are vanishing correctly (ur not atm)

you vanish for MA

and it lines up with gar pandemic anyway

[stiff vine]

yep got it

[novel star]

so like

[clever sapphire]

^

[novel star]

last 6s of kb is also pandemic on ur garrote every time in opener

beyond that idk

[clever sapphire]

btw just so you know, garrote dmg is so whatever in ST that you much rather vanish for 6 seconds crit on KB over full imp garrote over your Deathmark

[novel star]

get the shiv tea macro

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

[novel star]

finish on 5

and fix ur shiv/vanish timing

thats about it i guess

also get a 20 second worse killtime so it lines up with your 2mins

[clever sapphire]

after that its gamba if your team kills it with a good timer for you and if your KB crits

[novel star]

[clever sapphire]

[novel star]

ur actual just like active melee range time is kinda low also

but that is probably getting marked with mechanics

so also get luckier on mechanic assignment rng

[golden loom]

on sikran also u can cloak at 1 second on his sweep so u can stay in

[novel star]

doesnt matter much though

you can legit facetank it on heroic and step anyway

[golden loom]

nah it doesnt but its fun to do

[clever sapphire]

on heroic i just evasion/feint it with elus and ignore

[novel star]

yea

idk i still do the cloak thing because theres nothing to think about on this spec ever

and it makes me feel something

but yea

heroic dmg is cosmetic as fuck

[clever sapphire]

i save cloak usually for when healers or someone messes up

i dont trust my healers

[midnight mist]

guys !

[novel star]

whats up zacro

[midnight mist]

the ring is even worse on outlaw than assa

crazy no ?

[novel star]

awesome

[midnight mist]

ye

[novel star]

game fucking sucks lol

[midnight mist]

it doesnt even beat 626 rings for outlaw

surely cant be nitended

[royal lantern]

what

[midnight mist]

its not even catch up

[royal lantern]

its outlaw

how is that possible

[midnight mist]

so

ye right

thats what im saying

[royal lantern]

green text is the most important stat for outlaw

[midnight mist]

cause the stats effects are tuned higher

than the damage procs

[novel star]

[golden loom]

Wait is it gonna take 6 weeks to unlock flying on the isle or am I reading it wrong

[clever sapphire]

which isle

[novel star]

Yes it will

6 weeks to fully prog the ring + unlock flight

[golden loom]

Bruh moment

[novel star]

looks pretty small though

[clever sapphire]

can i just do everything after 6 weeks?

[royal lantern]

reminder that its small

[clever sapphire]

and ignore it for 6 weeks

[novel star]

i dont think no flight will be that bad

[royal lantern]

like

really small

[novel star]

yeh

[royal lantern]

it takes like 1 1/2 min to go from bottom to top on a ground mount

[rotund oak]

yup and its gonna be rily cringe if the ring eventually buffed/worth it

played something like a week on ptr,new currency etc..

[golden loom]

atleast this is good

[rotund oak]

will do it for the mounts but nothing speical

yeah dw about that stuff,not a big deal

[bronze pike]

Let’s buff ring

By 80%

[sharp viper]

what is a reasonable thread uptime for court / queen mythic?

[dawn heath]

The question is do we bother with the island incase they buff it so its bis

I really dont want to do it but i feel like i might have to

[royal python]

Use transmitter on cd or line up with deathmark?

[dawn heath]

Line

Unless you wont get another cast of dm

[royal python]

Got it thanks

[royal lantern]

this is gonna sound rude but

mate, if you didnt even inform yourself about anything in that regard yet, you are lightyears away from "having to do" Something lol

[dawn heath]

I play 16-17 keys i think its relevant for me

[royal lantern]

eh, court is a bit weird cus it depends on your team, if you are red team and do webs, you take more dmg as an example

but like

court is a "instant death" fight

[dawn heath]

Very cooked take you just make a bunch of nonsense assumptions

[royal lantern]

m+ player detected, opinion rejected

ring is bad

like

BAD bad

[dawn heath]

This ring is more relevant for m+ players than anyone else

[royal lantern]

does that answer it?

[dawn heath]

Well its gonna get buffed

[royal lantern]

ok, and we dont know that yet

[dawn heath]

There is no chance they release a patch of a ring when no one uses it

Thats the center of the patch

[royal lantern]

isnt it a bit weird to come in and say "i dont wanna farm ring"

"its bad rn"

"yeha but they will buff it and then i HAVE to do it!!!!"

like, you just want to be angry lol

[dawn heath]

Its a shit thing to introduce for people to have to engage with

If they are competitive

[royal lantern]

oh no, having to

play

the game

[dawn heath]

No one wants to do this

Who likes to run around on a Island and collect a bunch of nonsense

[royal lantern]

mate, most people actually want to play wow

sorry but, "high level" m+ players are giga disconnected from the game sometimes

[dawn heath]

Introduce this earlier in the season then

[royal lantern]

like, ridicolously disconected

[dawn heath]

Projection

I also raid on a famed Slayer level and i play PvP in gladiator range

Am i still just a m+er?

[royal lantern]

not projection, most people dont want to afk in the town and spam the same 8instances on repeat for a imaginary number to go up

world content is literally what the far majority of the playerbase interacts with and is the stuff that keeps the game running lol

[dawn heath]

I havent heard anyone i talked to excited about this patch

[royal lantern]

who is "anyone"

[dawn heath]

Everyone guildies friends opinions from youtube reddit wow forums i dont see anyone Beeing happy about this

[royal lantern]

youtube=lol

its wow YouTube

tf do you want

[dawn heath]

You are stupid

[royal lantern]

reddit is well known to not even play the game, the wow sub STILL has people talking about AP grinds lol

and the forum is the forum

[royal lantern]

i am, very much so

but you are kinda weird rn and think "i dont like X= NOBODY WANTS THAT OMG"

[dawn heath]

Asks who i respond proceeds to disregard everything

Thats untrue

[royal lantern]

i dont, but tf do you bring up reddit and youtube

like, what the hell

[dawn heath]

I just said i havent heard anyone be excited about this

[royal lantern]

did you ever see the wow sub?

the guys that told whisp that he doesnt know how Assa actually works multiple times

the guys that talk about "AP grinding" during Shadowlands

[midnight mist]

i mean

one thing i will give to that aljan guy

these type of content is casual content

[royal lantern]

ye

[midnight mist]

should be for casual only

[royal lantern]

and rn it is??

[nova python]

i am exited about ring tbh

[midnight mist]

rn it is

i hope it stays that way

[nova python]

you heard it here first

[midnight mist]

but historicaly

it hasnt been that way

when they introduce systems like this

[dawn heath]

I mean i am fine with it Beeing really bad but it wont be

[midnight mist]

they make it bis

im still expecting them to buff the things

[royal lantern]

then its bis for 6weeks

[midnight mist]

till its bis

[dawn heath]

Yes

[midnight mist]

but then you are forced to play it @royal lantern

which is the whole issue aljan has

isnt it

[dawn heath]

And if you are pushing title and beyond u want all player power u can get

[royal lantern]

if you wanna play at "top level", well suck it up, its your choice and you have to do stuff for that

[dawn heath]

Lmao

Dented take

[midnight mist]

im not runnnig delves

or anything casual

so idk wat you mean by that

[royal lantern]

why do you bring delves up now

[nova python]

but also if you are pushing top (which is your choice) you often change spec/classes to fit meta don’t you?

[dawn heath]

I should have to pet battle if it was tied to player power and just suck it up instead of critisising the system

[midnight mist]

When they add these type of casual content, I would rather not be forced to do them,so I understand aljan

[midnight mist]

Because it's the casual content

But it's for casuals

It doesn't give bis gear

[sharp viper]

so you're saying it's mandatory

[midnight mist]

The ring will probably will be ye

[sharp viper]

zac, are you actually playing sin now?

[dawn heath]

I think ring will be bis for 90% of specs atleast after they buff it

[sharp viper]

I'm curious

[dawn heath]

Maybe few outliers

[royal lantern]

its legit insane how angry people get at a single item that MAYBE will be a 2% Upgrade 6weeks down the line, when the "effort" in it involves "do 1 quest a week that takes 10min"

[nova python]

how much effort do you actually have to put into new ring weekly ? like is it kind of spamming it everyday for 1+ hour to make it work or quest once a week?

[dawn heath]

People dont want to be forced to do content they dont like its not so hard to understand

[sharp viper]

60 minutes of MY TIME?!

[royal lantern]

its a single quest a week

[sharp viper]

bruh I don't think I want the hassle with transmitter if I get it in the vault but damn +11k over 639 skardyns

[golden loom]

11k dps for a trinket that can just grief you sounds awful

[nova python]

yeah, so like i understand the take that forcing someone to do something for gain to push (so op it’s mandatory) is bad but there is also a line. the quest you do is solo content so you don’t need people to do, takes couple minutes (can do between keys) and it’s a problem like the world is burning somehow. somehow m+ players are kinda ‘forced’ to raid otherwise you are only able to get 1 item my track per week while raid you can get bunch of shit in 1 run (with luck ofc)

[royal lantern]

ok, then remove m+ gear aswell, i dont like it and im F O R C E D to do it

[sharp viper]

skardyn's ease of use is still great

[royal lantern]

reminder that 11k is....not much lol

[sharp viper]

obtainability not as much

[golden loom]

oh I assumed you had a 639 skardyns

[sharp viper]

I do have it 639

[royal lantern]

i dont like it when we do millions of dmg cus it skews number perception like crazy

11k sounds so big and then you look at it and realise that its not really that much at all

[dawn heath]

There is quite a substantial differences between doing role play content and doing raid/m+ the content has overlap

[royal lantern]

its no rp content

but sure

be dismissive

[sharp viper]

yeah, only possible upgrade atm, mythic queen is on the horizon

[dawn heath]

How is this not role play content

[dapper marsh]

I mean sure it's easy, but rp is its own thing.

[royal lantern]

sorry, butnits legit a "wow players when they have to play the game" moment

we dont talk about weeks of rep grinding

its literally "there is a short weekly quest that makes the ilvl higher"

you dont spend hours doing shit

[golden loom]

you are playing a fantasy game, do the quests and be happy its not classic or runescape levels worth of grinds

[royal lantern]

its literally a WEEKLY quest that takes 10min at best

if THATS to much for a "top end players"

yeha, what the hell man

its no frking grind

if it would be a shity grind, sure i would be 100% on your side

[dawn heath]

Im pretty sure it wont be a 10min a week thing

[royal lantern]

and you cant tell me that you never have thosen10min downtime where you can do it, cus you wait for a guy in your m+ team tocl come back from dinner/do it in those 30min before raid

[dapper marsh]

What are we yapping about anyways?

New ring?

[sharp viper]

yes

Why am I being held at gunpoint and forced to do some casual content for a bit of time over the course of 6 weeks?

[dapper marsh]

It's not even good, why do we care about it?

[sharp viper]

@balmy condorplz explain

[placid radish]

because WoW is an MMORPG not a moba

[nova python]

because reason: it will be buffed for sure so it will be op/mandatory

[dawn heath]

Cause it will be buffed

[golden loom]

you are gonna be held hostage during christmas dinner forced to slave away for a useless ring!!!

[sharp viper]

booba > moba

[royal lantern]

ass>boobs

[midnight mist]

And outlaw ye

[dapper marsh]

I mean if the ring isn't worth like a 50k gain I probably just won't grind it haha

[sharp viper]

ass²ination>ass>boobs?

[balmy condor]

What am I explaining

[royal lantern]

@dawn heath like, again, dont get me wrong

i would support your opinion if it was actually a bigger deal and you had to commit a longer amount of time into the entire thing, hell im kinda vocal about not liking m+ as a gamemode and still having to play it all the time for raiding

but with our current knowledge its bad, so its allready a bit weird to complain about it in the first place

and if they buff it and it suddenly becomes a noticable gain, it would be "do a weekly quest on reset day and then ignore" for 5-6 weeks and thats it, thats faaaaar from being an actual problematic thing you spend much time with

if it was a tedious stupid rep grind? yeha sure, those suck balls, but it isnt, so i kinda struggle to see why its worth complaining about it except if you hate EVERYTHING about the game that isnt m+/raid, but at that point playing wow is a bit weird cus it often wants you to do other content as that is the main part of the game and m+/mythic raiding is a second thought for blizz at best

wall of text jumpscare

[midnight mist]

I kinda disagree about your last point tryan

I only like m+ and raid

And outside of the first week of every tier

I only ever interact with these 2 things

Once leveling and casual week is over the rest is all irrelevant if you want to only do m+ and raid

Quite cool actually

[royal lantern]

i mean yeha

[steel ridge]

wdym zac, you dont have all renown 25?

[dawn heath]

Casual content should not be tied to player power. Its just that simple. Have power come from endgane content and let casuals have their mogs pets and mounts

[royal lantern]

but then throwing a fuzz about sometimes "having" (cus rn, you dont) to shortly interact with a very small amount of content outside of it is just.....idk man, it feels kinda entilted

[midnight mist]

I have around 20 or whatever

But that was first week content ye

I never ever went back after that

[placid radish]

I remember when world quests used to be a big thing in legion and how in later expansions they subsequently nerfed them

[royal lantern]

i mean, legion was THE "you have to do it" expansion

[sharp viper]

they were a big thing because you had to farm artifact/azerite power shit

stupid fucking grind for power

[royal lantern]

which makes those complaints rn even more kinda stupid

[steel ridge]

thats still pretty far up there

[royal lantern]

legion was "farm world quests" for its entire runtime

[midnight mist]

Well renown was important at the start of the expac a bit

So I farmed it

[steel ridge]

many of my mates havent gotten renown over 10 😄

[midnight mist]

For the first weeks or whatever how long it laster I don't remember

But that was gone when real content started

[steel ridge]

i am dinging 25 this week for all 4 i think, casually doing the weeklies

cause i probably need those for the Meta Achievement

[royal lantern]

dornogal man

why does it take so long

why is the rep with 3 singular reps the fastes one

and why is dornogal so slow

[steel ridge]

no idea

using the weekly dungeon thing for dornogal is the key

[midnight mist]

Haven't done a quest in months

I just enter dungeons and raid

Like I was playing league

Queuing games

[placid radish]

exactly

[royal lantern]

zac is the guy without raidskips confirmed

[midnight mist]

Lol

[steel ridge]

well, patch cadence is still too slow

[royal lantern]

thats a quest

[placid radish]

it's an mmorpg
those constant attempts to mobafy the game are annoying

you will end up witth lack of identity

[steel ridge]

blizzard is just cutting down the expansion by 1 season and still doing 6 month seasons, from the looks of it

and now the season is dry as sand

[royal lantern]

im gonna be honest

after watching destiny go down into the drain by trying to speed it up all the time and as a result focus everything on throwaway content, i rather have blizz keep it up as it is rn lol

[midnight mist]

I'm just waiting for that honestly kekw

The day when I can just login and queue up for m+

[steel ridge]

destiny has so much less gameplay to start with

[midnight mist]

Then do raid

I'm happy

[royal lantern]

isnt there that weird "m+ only" game on beta

[steel ridge]

every mission in destiny kinda feels the same

[midnight mist]

Ye It was on beta for a week

Was cool

[royal lantern]

HEY JUST LIKE SHIT+

[midnight mist]

I probably will play that game when it releases

Issue is

[royal lantern]

im interested if/how long it can actually keep a healthy playerbase tbh

[midnight mist]

It's still not as fun as wow

The character design

Gameplay wise

Is boring

[steel ridge]

ye but destiny has nothing else than missions

[midnight mist]

I mean wow work s with m+ no?

Imagine if it had a proper queuing thing

[royal lantern]

the difference is

wow m+ for the far far majority is one for gearing purposes, people like gearing up and grow stronger

the people that play m+ ONLY for pushing higher and higher and the competitive aspect is not high

and that game is mostly for the 2nd Group

[novel star]

surely its only bcz we were locked to low lvl

[royal lantern]

not saying its bad

[steel ridge]

gear is arbitrary, pulling all the fun the game from gearing is shallow

if you dont actually enjoy the combat

or the pressing buttons and laughing

[royal lantern]

i know, but for many it works that way

[sharp viper]

first time I heard about something like that

[steel ridge]

gearing is a motivator to do stuff beyond 1-2 dungeons and then going to dinner

but the baseline fun has to be there

otherwise why gear up

[royal lantern]

idk the name rn

[midnight mist]

I mean it's not high because you have to go through so many loops and shit to play that part of the game

[royal lantern]

ask zac

[midnight mist]

I think a lot of people also push but at their level

[midnight mist]

Fellowship

[royal lantern]

most are simply not interested in it in the first place

thats for any "higvlevel" play tbh

not just m+

[midnight mist]

No it's because they have 3 spells that don't even interact between each others

[sharp viper]

https://tenor.com/view/lotr-squad-gif-5398456

[royal lantern]

and not just wow

likey cus i played it a good bunch aswell

Destiny raids are mostly braindead easy

only ~15% of the entire playerbase cleared ANY raid at all over the entire games run time

most dont care much about "endgame content" or "pushing your skill limits"

[steel ridge]

nah its just shoot stuff and jump around

and thats about it, the gunplay is fun, shooting stuff is fun

[arctic socket]

Poe 2 pretty fun

[slate crown]

Gearing is a treadmill and a ton of people just want to hop onto that treadmill for a few hours after getting home from work

[novel star]

maybe

i only played fire dude

he was pretty sick

[midnight mist]

I ended up playing nekoo

Cause that's the only thing with a slighty dynamic gameplay

With a bit of depth

Everything else is a bit dull

But the game itself works fine

Imo

I'm interested to see how far it can go

[royal lantern]

ye, deadfire is good

[midnight mist]

Also

Isn't games like Diablo etc

Kinda similar to what a m+ game would be a bit

But not really

[royal lantern]

wdym with that

[midnight mist]

But it's a bit close in concept

You run keys

You go higher

That's it isn't it

[royal lantern]

diablo and the games like that are AALL about getting better gear

[midnight mist]

Its instanced

Ye I guess there is a gear part

[royal lantern]

like, the entire gametype is "do content and get gear to do harder content for more gear"

or in case of poe "do content for gear that doesnt drop and you dont know what is good anyway and just blindly pick up currency and buy overpriced items that the streamer guide you follow says is good"

[sharp viper]

I only use the BIS list of my favourite rouge streamer whisper

[arctic socket]

[midnight mist]

Ye sure

But in the end

Its instanced solo m+

Instanced bad solo m+

[royal lantern]

huh

how is it m+

[midnight mist]

It's a dungeon that you run fast In, kill mobs and bosses right

And then you do the dungeon the level above

[royal lantern]

you go into a map, blow enemys up in 1hit before they blow you up in 1hit, check if 1 of the 500items on the ground is good, and repeat

[midnight mist]

Ye so it's a dungeon system tho

Is it not

Enter instance

Kill mobs and boss

Repeat

[sharp viper]

it is

[midnight mist]

I'm not saying it's m+ in wow

But it share similarities

[novel star]

i mean

[midnight mist]

And it's the whole thing about the game isn't it

[novel star]

it shares similarities if you've never played a game before in your entire life

[midnight mist]

There is nothing else

[novel star]

and you just look at a list of qualities

without considering any specifics ever

sure

[midnight mist]

Wdym

It's a lot of overlap with m+ no?

[novel star]

you cannot actually know how an arpg plays and how wow dungeons play and draw any realistic comparison

no

again, yes technically if you list it out as an instance that you load into and kill mobs and then a boss and then reload the instance and do it again

sure

but that doesnt mean anything

[tawdry kindle]

they literally copied the idea of m+ from d3 rifts it is very clearly similiar lol

[novel star]

bullet points about structure arent enough to say 2 games are doing the same thing

[midnight mist]

Wdym

[novel star]

.

[midnight mist]

It's my point tho isn't it

People are willing to run dungeons only forever

That type of content

[novel star]

oh sure if thats all u mean then yea

both are mindless repeating grinds

but theyre not similar at all beyond that

just same requirement of having a moldy brain 2 enjoy it

(i am currently playing poe2)

[midnight mist]

Its instanced PvE dungeon type content tho

I think the base trope

[novel star]

depends on your definition of dungeon

[midnight mist]

Is similar no?

[novel star]

if by dungeon you mean wow dungeon no not at all

[midnight mist]

Idk an instance with mobs and bosses to kill

[novel star]

if dungeon just means an area you load into that has a lot of enemies in it

then yeh sure

[midnight mist]

I think wow dungeons are more scenarised than Diablo right

More uniqueness

[novel star]

mm

yea

in arpgs the goal is always 2 get broken enough that there are no mechanics in the game anymore

cause the entire screen pops when u breathe

so its kinda just a different coloured firework