assassination

[keen mantle]

It’s what seliathan said , rogues in mdi are not mains

[zealous wolf]

@keen mantle do you play forced induction in raid now?

[keen mantle]

I just played it once , it’s not bad at all: should be fine

[final star]

yeah hopeful openly said he simmed and just changed some minor things

[rain mortar]

What people have to do that they don’t want to do is not play sbs

[final star]

but hopeful blasted so it worked

[keen mantle]

Also don’t ask be about raid I’m just an m+er

Ask me bout m+ only

[novel star]

nice logs

[keen mantle]

Private logs means you’re bad at raid you know

No one cares

[novel star]

it’s true

[subtle tundra]

im bad and i private log so its true

[real onyx]

i forgot my posion reminder wa on my laptop

went into a dungeon and was so confused lol

[coral ibex]

still blows my mind that top non-rwf guilds have to private log or people just int for colors

[spice surge]

They still do

[subtle tundra]

yea they do

[spice surge]

Private logging is completely meaningless

[rain mortar]

Private logs so dumb outside of rwf

[coral ibex]

people int for colors in private logs?!

[subtle tundra]

ofc i do

[spice surge]

They can still see their own parses

[coral ibex]

[tardy terrace]

scared of numbers and colors

[coral ibex]

man if i’m not showing on the ladder im playing 100% for the clear

who gives a fuck

[rain mortar]

WCL is down, they just made every log private

[sharp viper]

but mah parse

[lusty kraken]

how hard am I trolling if I use ambush instead of mutilate during subterfuge?

[lofty mango]

Hey for m+ how do we best use CDS

Im struggling with utilizing them consistently also

What’s the best way to use shib on CD or paired with kings bane window b

[quaint depot]

the CDs line up to where you can do both

[drifting burrow]

is this damage distribution normal on single target on like a 3 minute fight

is envenom supposed to be that high

[coral ibex]

yes

[drifting burrow]

damn

[coral ibex]

i mean 50% is high

[quaint depot]

Your kingsbane seems very low to me

[drifting burrow]

last time i playerd rogue was S3 DF so

[coral ibex]

but it should be your #1 damage by far

[drifting burrow]

it's pretty surprising

[drifting burrow]

i agree, for some reason it was low during that attempt

usually it's higher

[quaint depot]

Gotcha

[drifting burrow]

back in df it was a lot more

equalized i guess

[quaint depot]

its 30 percent, 50 was how often it crit

[drifting burrow]

my mastery is also in the toilet

since i just hit 80 the other day

prob nets me a bit lower kingsbane damage

[coral ibex]

yea it’s probably fine

[quaint depot]

Yeah you might have just done low kingsbane dmg due to ilvl

i was just saying its possible you missed a whole kingsbane or something

[drifting burrow]

559

[quaint depot]

Yeah, tis fine then

[drifting burrow]

does kingsbane get disproportionate damage increases from ilvl?

is it mostly due to mastery

[proven jasper]

Agi makes a big dif

[quaint depot]

well 559 is very low

[proven jasper]

If you are 559 you are missing alot of stats

[drifting burrow]

yea im practically in greens

[quaint depot]

Yeah, I was assuming you were atleast lik 600 ilvl

when i said your kingsbane was low

[drifting burrow]

just wanted to take time to relearn the rotation and update the UI before i jumped into gearing

i just didnt know it had a bigger impact on kingsbane than it did other stuff ig

[proven jasper]

Has a big impact on everything

[quaint depot]

It doesnt really, I just noticed kingsbanes amount and thought it seemed low

[drifting burrow]

ah ic

here's the usual damage spread for me

idk why it was low that time

[quaint depot]

Yeah, I just thought it was low because mine deals double the damage with 1 less cast

but im much higher ilvl

which accounts for that

[drifting burrow]

yea i was only looking at relative percentages

either way its pretty crazy that envenom damage is that high now

[vast loom]

gear like trinkets will skew KB up a lot more

[drifting burrow]

coming from DF where sin was primarily a dot class

[quaint depot]

Yeah all your ST damage is envenom basically outside of your burst window

[drifting burrow]

it's a little funny how much of the damage is concentrated on direct big hits

[quaint depot]

Envenom is about 20 percent of my damage on bosses

[lusty kraken]

what is the DPS loss for using ambush instead of mutilate during subterfuge?

[drifting burrow]

there's a dps loss for using ambush instead?

even though it hits that much harder?

[lusty kraken]

no clue

[drifting burrow]

i figured as long as you get caustic spatter up early enough

[lusty kraken]

I'm thinking maybe mutilate generates more CP

[slate crown]

Use mutilate

Ambush is good when you have blindside or need to apply mark (from stealth)

It's good during blindside because it costs less energy

Otherwise, mutilate is better

[drifting burrow]

ah okay

[quaint depot]

Yeah you only ambush to mark basically

[lusty kraken]

so I've been trolling so far

[slate crown]

I mean

it's probably not demolishing your damage

[drifting burrow]

#showtooltip
/cast [stealth] Ambush
/cast [nostealth] Mutilate

[quaint depot]

if you applied your bleeds and caustic spatter, it probably isnt a huge difference

[slate crown]

it's just not ideal

[lusty kraken]

today I realised during subterfuge I am using ambush instead of mutilate

[drifting burrow]

is something you can use then

[dim yacht]

oh its a damage loss again? such silly design lol

pretty sure its cause mut can crit twice and generates more cp on average?

[drifting burrow]

ah yeah seal fate is per crit

not per skill

[dim yacht]

seems like ambush should just generate 1 more cp than mut, bam

[drifting burrow]

we already take this too

could just buff it to be 2?

[dim yacht]

ambush is no longer worse. its not a big deal, but its a horrible balance decision to have it be actively worse

[proven jasper]

Muti has a bunch of talents that affect it where ambush doesnt

Main dif

[quaint depot]

whos "we"

lol jk

But nah i dont take that talent

[drifting burrow]

lmao

[dim yacht]

oh do we? i dont do raids

i just assumed it was the other talent option for st

[proven jasper]

We play the other one

[drifting burrow]

o do we

ive been griefing then

[proven jasper]

Ye

[quaint depot]

yeah

[drifting burrow]

maybe i exported

[proven jasper]

Ambush is mid

[drifting burrow]

an outdated tree

or something

thats on the uhh

arterial precision raid tree

[proven jasper]

Does that tree take blindside

[drifting burrow]

ye

[proven jasper]

Yea then its fine

[half tartan]

!sheet

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[drifting burrow]

yea idk how the tuning is for a lot of this stuff

[glacial gale]

how do I sim gems for culminating setup

[drifting burrow]

feels like sometimes even tho u talent into something

it might not be worth

[balmy condor]

Improved ambush in single target is better

You’re good

[drifting burrow]

nice

[sleek shale]

After weeks I found it! If anyone else wants it here it is https://wago.io/yupdASmq8 its based on this one https://wago.io/shadowmeld

[lusty kraken]

there is no shot we play improved ambush in m+, right

[proven jasper]

Nah its def tight spender

[lusty kraken]

guess I need a new bind for ambush

[drifting burrow]

do u

i feel like u dont

[violet berry]

How good is voidreapers

For us

[drifting burrow]

personally i just use this

#showtooltip
/cast [stealth] Ambush
/cast [nostealth] Mutilate

[balmy condor]

No

[drifting burrow]

and then i dont need an ambush bind

[lusty kraken]

for the m+ build surely you do

[balmy condor]

What

[balmy condor]

What

[drifting burrow]

since we play tight spender on m+

you only need

that initial ambush for mark

which always comes from stealth

even if you play blindside, ambush replaces the mutilate button

when the proc happens

[half tartan]

How reliable do you guys find shadowmeld / !stealth?

[balmy condor]

Not at all

[half tartan]

like 80%, 40%, 20%, 100% in combat

in combat on mobs

[balmy condor]

Shadowmeld is like a 50/50

[lusty kraken]

I was using ambush/mutilate on the same keybind, and I noticed that during subterfuge I kept using ambush

is that not a dps loss?

[quaint depot]

Yeah you dont want to do that, you just ambush once to mark your prio target

[drifting burrow]

yea so just use the macro i posted above

[balmy condor]

Guys what

No

[drifting burrow]

the initial ambush will happen from stealth, then even in subterfuge, youll muti

[balmy condor]

Ambush is fine

What are we cooking

[royal lantern]

no you dont

[drifting burrow]

is ambush fine?

[royal lantern]

thats overcomplicating sstuff for no reason

[balmy condor]

Yes lmao

[royal lantern]

yes it is fine

[vast loom]

trust the :3 user

[lusty kraken]

do you not generate more CP from mutilate or something

[quaint depot]

Oh okay, for some reason i thought we only wanted to ambush once during stealth

[vast loom]

i mean you should be using FoK on most pulls anyway

[quaint depot]

Yeah that is also true, you arent really using mutilate much anyways lol

once every 10 seconds

[balmy condor]

In absolute technicality, yes ambush is TECHNICALLY worse, we’re talking like 200-300 dps total

So like

Within margin

[lusty kraken]

so I can keep using ambush

Pog

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[lusty kraken]

thanks Whispyr

[drifting burrow]

oh so it is worse

[quaint depot]

worse to a degree that is irrelevant

[drifting burrow]

okay, good, not griefing with the macro then

[vast loom]

its basically even

[quaint depot]

if the macro makes it easier for you use it

[balmy condor]

It’s worse by an amount that sims are not able to tell

[drifting burrow]

hey as long as the macro isnt griefing

im all good

[balmy condor]

Correct

Ambush or mut is fine

[royal lantern]

200dps in a game where we say "ill do 1,1million"

like

just think about it

[vast loom]

how does the CT dmg bonus work? does it snapshot number of targets?

[balmy condor]

Just don’t go making new keybinds and shit for ambush or whatever that’s an absolute waste

[royal lantern]

yes it does

[drifting burrow]

my rationale is that if it comes with no downside and its easy to fix, even if it's worth 200 dps, might as well do it right

[balmy condor]

Yes

[quaint depot]

as long as you arent waiting like 12 seconds to apply Caustic spatter because of that macro, its fine

[vast loom]

is it worth sniping CT on random 2 targhet

[balmy condor]

200 dps is within margin though

[vast loom]

like when affix spawns

[balmy condor]

Sure yolo

[vast loom]

leggo

[drifting burrow]

no the macro lets me apply it right away

[half tartan]

Q is my ambush LOL

[drifting burrow]

it stops me from being able to ambush in subterfuge lol

[smoky inlet]

outside of the original mass rup/garrote, is it worth keeping rup/garrote up on my other targets with the current CT/CS damage profile?

[quaint depot]

oh i see

[drifting burrow]

subterfuge isnt counted as stealth, so you can do /cast [nostealth] mutilate

and itll work

[quaint depot]

Got it, so you open with ambush for mark then its auto using muti anyways

[drifting burrow]

ya

same key no thoughts

[quaint depot]

Yeah well thats perfect then i think

[drifting burrow]

now it does fuck me over sometimes but its muscle memory related

im used to opening with garrote from DF playstyle

if i do, i just cant ambush lmao

but thats just a l2p issue

gotta get used to it

[molten flicker]

so in other words your macro is actually griefing

[drifting burrow]

only because im bad

[quaint depot]

I noticed the rotation on WoWhead guide says to cast slice n dice manually, are we really doing that? Im too lazy to be bothered by that when i get it as soon as i envenom anyways and then its up for 100 percent of the dungeon lol, as i type this im realizing this is another irrelevant amount of damage situation

[drifting burrow]

it's a fitting punishment

[hot jay]

Probably rupture if the pull actually has that much life in it left and your original ruptures are gone, that's a long duration though

Each rupture debuff is 4% agi up to 5 targets

[drifting burrow]

good way to drill the opener in

[smoky inlet]

yeah thats how ive been playing it

[molten flicker]

depends on talents

[smoky inlet]

wanted to make sure i wasnt misplaying lol thanks

[hot jay]

I think the presumption is keys, could be wrong

[drifting burrow]

if you're playing dslice

[molten flicker]

still depends on talents

[smoky inlet]

yeah

[drifting burrow]

for example

[smoky inlet]

keys, and i have scent of blood

[drifting burrow]

you get no agi from ruptures

[quaint depot]

The dream is that the pack is dead before the original rupture is gone lel

[hot jay]

That

[smoky inlet]

thats always my goal lol

[quaint depot]

once you start have to use a bunch of gcds to apply rupture to almost dead mobs, im not sure your actually gaining a ton of damage by keeping that buff up

[balmy condor]

Well if you’re mut is Q then that’s fine :)

[molten flicker]

your*

[hot jay]

Well yeah if the mobs are not healthy you would not rupture again

Unless you need caustic refresh on main

[balmy condor]

It shouldn’t say that

[quaint depot]

Maybe i misread it, ill be honest and say i havent looked at that section of the guide in like 3 weeks

[balmy condor]

My phone hates English

[normal mist]

Whispyr how hard is it to maintain several pages of wowhead info without fucking up info?

[balmy condor]

Entirely possible I missed some footnote somewhere

[drifting burrow]

im so glad manual snd is gone

[balmy condor]

Insanely

[hot jay]

What build are people playing in keys with no scent of blood? I guess I'm not current on all the m+ build options

[quaint depot]

To be clear i thought i remembered the guide saying something like in the opener you want to apply like a 1 combo point snd

[drifting burrow]

dslice

[normal mist]

You're doing a good job dw

[hot jay]

What is dslice

[balmy condor]

Scent of blood is in every build

[coral ibex]

ain’t no way anyone is playing m+ without scent

0% chance

[quaint depot]

idk why youd choose to lose 20 percent agility

[hot jay]

I know what dslice is on raidbots but how does that translate to a non-scent build

[balmy condor]

That’s a cleave build, people don’t play that

[balmy condor]

Idk bro is yapping

[hot jay]

[drifting burrow]

didnt u say that cleave was fine

on your video

[balmy condor]

I mean it is

[normal mist]

"it is"

[drifting burrow]

if people wanted to play it

[balmy condor]

But people don’t play it

[drifting burrow]

i can't imagine people would want to play it though...

[balmy condor]

His question are what are people playing

The answer is not that

[drifting burrow]

yeah that's fair

i dont play that either

[balmy condor]

Math says it’s playable though, yes

Along with no joke 350-400 other things

[drifting burrow]

what the

[hot jay]

For my own sanity I will just keep playing the regular build that's being played lol

I like it

[quaint depot]

Ive been on an old build doing quite well, switching to the MA build today to see how it runs

[hot jay]

I have not tried running subterfuge yet, feels unnecessary in my weekly key farm for loot

Not sure how much single target I lose by running it either but I'm low ilvl right now so I don't wanna lose any ST

[drifting burrow]

subterfuge is really comfy

[valid pulsar]

I should only envenom at max combo right?

[normal mist]

no

5+

force max cp only to proc DN

[drifting burrow]

the only time when you have to is when you have darkest night

[valid pulsar]

Ok

Ty

[golden loom]

for a +10 NW, would you run TTK or Sudden demise? havent run it before so might struggle with envenom uptime so was thinking that SD might be better?

[balmy condor]

Sounds good

[steel ridge]

what whispyr is saying in a rather polite and non-offensive way is: it doesnt fucking matter, just flow with it

[rain mortar]

Subterfuge is great - especially
If you do the REAL thing you should do… drop SBS

[balmy condor]

Based for dropping a good talent tbh

Can’t even argue against it

Anything to swim upstream

W chat

[drifting burrow]

lmfao

[molten flicker]

you don't lose single target

just win

[gloomy heart]

Just win everything

[rain mortar]

SBS QOL is great, but playing without it feels like more dmg in big keys. I’m
A bit feeeeeling guy 🙂

[gloomy heart]

aoe st

just do more damage bro

simple!

[drifting burrow]

im not competitive enough to drop all the amazing qol talents

[quaint depot]

Is there an argument to drop SBS for Sanguine Blades? I noticed the curren hybrid m+ build doesnt have blades

[molten flicker]

what u speccing instead?

[drifting burrow]

i think if you play with twist the knife

you dont wanna slow down the spec in any way

so blades and vicious venoms get dropped i believe

[balmy condor]

Dude what are you talking about

Vicious venoms?

[subtle tundra]

im so confuse!

[balmy condor]

Surely you jest

[coral ibex]

dude we are COOKING today

[drifting burrow]

arent we not supposed to run that?

[balmy condor]

I mean yeah, we don’t run it

[gloomy heart]

dbl shiv supercharger build is cooking

[balmy condor]

But why are you talking about

a talent we never take

as if we’re dropping it for a point

[drifting burrow]

oh no i just wanted to make a point that stuff that makes energy costs higher is bad when playing TTF

im not saying we're taking it otherwise

[balmy condor]

Sure okay

[hot jay]

What is sbs I tried looking at the rogue general tree and fried my brain trying to find it

[drifting burrow]

serrated bone spike

[lethal turtle]

we like sbs here

[hot jay]

Oh,but how is that related to subterfuge

[rain mortar]

This is me in 13/14s now.

[quaint depot]

Yeah i was just curious because Sanguine blades is 5-6 percent of my damage and SBS was like 2 percent (in my previous build prior to running MA)

So i was asking if there was an argument to drop SBS for Sanguine blades

But ofc have to drop Sanguine to get MA

[rain mortar]

In big keys I like dropping sbs and DB to make sure I take MA and TTk

[hollow gazelle]

what is the "meta" build right now for m+

[quaint depot]

May i ask what TTK is?

[limber lion]

Twist the Knife

A talent in the middle

[quaint depot]

Oh duh, ty

[drifting burrow]

ttk is very fun

[quaint depot]

Ive never tried twist the knife, maybe ill try dropping both blades and sbs for that and MA and running this build. Plays the same yeah? just different options that change stuff passively basically?

[limber lion]

About the same yeah

[weary spear]

Just run supercharger / TTK and swap iron wire for sudden demise depending on key for big dam. Been smoothest build I’ve found

[limber lion]

Nothing really changes rotationally with anything

Shrouded and SBS change the rotation ever so slightly

TTK allows you to spam more

That's about it

[drifting burrow]

if i were you i'd grab one of the uhh

[quaint depot]

Yeah i get spammy sometimes, so TTK is probably good for me

[drifting burrow]

envenom weakauras

hold on

https://wago.io/lcM4ssa54

[limber lion]

Don't really need it for TTK

There's nothing really to optimize with TTK

You just spam

[quaint depot]

Yeah i imagine since it stacks twice it makes spamming a lot more forgiving

[drifting burrow]

it does yeah

[quaint depot]

Im somewhat mindful of it still, i dont just full spam

[drifting burrow]

pretty fun, can go fast

[rain mortar]

Yeah I mean you don’t really change much playstyle for ttk

[drifting burrow]

but if you like playing slower and pooling, that's also fine too

tbh it feels like we can kinda play whatever we want rn

to a certain extent

[rain mortar]

Agreed

[quaint depot]

Yeah I mean it feels like you dont need to do that at all except on bosses

[sleek spear]

do we have a trinket tier list?

would you guys use Sikran Endless Arsenal or Ara Kara Sac Brood?

my other trinket is Empowering Crystal

[rain mortar]

Wowhrad

Wowhead

[limber lion]

Neither, you want an active stat trinket so Skardyn or Transmitter

[quaint depot]

Ive been really enjoying Skardyns for sure, its just real nice with death mark, phat mastery during the burst window

[ornate harbor]

Never seen skardyns

50 runs ‘+

[cobalt sphinx]

If you don’t have skardyns or transmitter is it a pvp angle

[quaint depot]

Yeah, loot table in GB is rough

[safe field]

I ran dozen of M+ as assasination, following the official rotation where you open with a few garrote -> crimson tempest -> caustic splatter -> envenom...but my DPS always get rekted by other rogues, where they seem to apply caustic envenom earlier in the opener. My question is if a pack of mobs will only live for 30 seconds, what should the actual opener be.

[quaint depot]

i assume you just accidentally left out rupture there

[cobalt sphinx]

Opener depends on combo points, mob count, crits, and dn

[safe field]

yes garrote and rupture first obviously

[cobalt sphinx]

You can’t have a cookie cutter set opener

[rain mortar]

Don’t forget your ruppies

[safe field]

my caustic splatter damage is 1/5th of theirs

[quaint depot]

I always apply caustic spatter before Crimson tempest

[drifting burrow]

how soon are you putting it up?

[quaint depot]

first thing after ruptures and garrotes

[hoary ginkgo]

Reason pls ?

[drifting burrow]

also like

may be a silly question but

are you using kingsbane and stuff on the trash packs?

[ornate harbor]

How Y apply cautic

Just spam shit

[quaint depot]

IDK if its correct, it seems to do more damage on packs that die quicker to me and it normally lines up well anyways where after im done applying the bleeds ill have like 3-5 combo points and i mutilate once to get more combo points and then crimson tempest, then i go into FoK envenom spam

[safe field]

thats my observation as well, i mean in like 10 seconds other rogues caustic is ticking millions, and i have just applid mine, severely behind on DPS

[short night]

do you need to switch targets on aoe opener to get rupture and garrote on everyone? or will carnage apply it to enemies who dont already have it

?

[drifting burrow]

its smart, itll auto apply

to those who dont have it

[rain mortar]

You’re just applying or wrong or something. Maybe you’re not getting it up, maybe you let it fall off and don’t reapply it. But you’re missing something.

[quaint depot]

Carnage will spread it to enemies that dont already have it, youll juist get 1 less application each time if you are spamming on the same target

[drifting burrow]

yup

[quaint depot]

but its honestly easier and simpler to just do it that way, and the most important factor is getting rupture on 5 targets, which is still accompished with 2 ruiptures even on prio target

[normal mist]

my latest 9(?) iirc, Ara-kara, 1.63M dps

[weary spear]

Applying crimson after caustic/DM/KB gets you bigger prio damage

Get into CD window quicker

[quaint depot]

also my latest 9 (gb)

[short night]

awesome thanks

[quaint depot]

1.8m overall

[safe field]

following the official rotation sim, you put up caustic on what...11th GCD, mobs are already dead lol

[short night]

what does the "4t" mean here? like use rupture again only if you have 4+ targets? and does the 5cp+ mean use fok until you have 5+ cp?

[drifting burrow]

what lvl keys are you doing generally?

[normal mist]

4 targets

[weary spear]

If your caustic damage is low there’s a good chance you’re target swapping too much. Get focus macro for kicks and mouse over for rupture

[normal mist]

8-9 99% of the time

[cobalt sphinx]

Yeah because 1 garrote covers 1-3 targets, 2 garrotes for more than 3 targets. Same for rupture

[short night]

ahh okay i see

[drifting burrow]

oh i meant arenamaster

[safe field]

10s

[drifting burrow]

packs are dead by the 10th gcd on your 10s?

[safe field]

other rogue

and mine

severely behind on caustic

[short night]

and does the 5cp+ mean use fok until you have 5cp? in general are all spenders no difference between 5 and 7?

[drifting burrow]

yea use fok until 5+

just remember to use mutilate once every 10s to reapply caustic

[quaint depot]

Yeah modify your weakaura to make a noise when caustic has 2 seconds remaining

[safe field]

yes everyone is pulling 2mil overall

[quaint depot]

helps a ton

[drifting burrow]

oo this is a good one

[cobalt sphinx]

There is a difference but you want to finish at 5+, better damage than going to 7 every time. Obviously 7 for dn

[drifting burrow]

yoink

[drifting cedar]

is that easy to do?

[quaint depot]

Yes

[drifting burrow]

yes

ill send a screenshot on how to do it, one sec

[cobalt sphinx]

Where is your kingsbane at brother

Kingsbane spatters

[quaint depot]

Yeah it looks liek you arent using your CDs on CD which is big

[cobalt sphinx]

Spatter is just a ratio of your poison damage, and you did less poison damage

[drifting burrow]

on the conditions tab

[drifting cedar]

Thanks frost

[drifting burrow]

then you just select whatever trigger relates to the caustic aura

[short night]

so are you just supposed to vanish to re apply aoe garrote and ruptures during pulls? (for m+)

[drifting burrow]

the sound field is empty

thats where you choose which sound you want to make it play

up to preference

[safe field]

so if i use more kingsbane it will increase my caustic damage? i've been holding it until all buffs and debuffs are up, and packs are like dead already

and tried to sync with deathmark as well, so casted less

[cobalt sphinx]

Yes it is a 1 minute cooldown, you should be spamming it

Inefficient cooldowns > no cooldowns at all

[mint urchin]

caustic spreads poison damage so if you use KB on caustic target it spreads damage

[cobalt sphinx]

Kb is a ton of spatter damage even if it doesn’t get maximum value

[mint urchin]

The only times to hold KB is if the pack is almost over or if DM + trinket is going to come up soon

Otherwise you pretty much just send it in M+

[safe field]

i see

[quaint depot]

The only time you want to hold cooldowns at all is if you are right before a boss, even then sometimes its fine to just use them

[mint urchin]

Well like first boss of mists is one where its good to save for the dmg amp, but thats getting super niche

[quaint depot]

Even then, it means you can safely use kingsbane on the big guys right before him

and have it back up before the damage amp

[mint urchin]

yup true

[coral ibex]

use both on the 2 guys prior and then send kb on the tall guy

[quaint depot]

Yeah on higher keys that makes sense to me for sure

[coral ibex]

you’ll have both up for the amp unless you are way overgeared for the key

[mint urchin]

It has to be higher then a 10 imo

[coral ibex]

maximizing uses is generally good, just don’t miss amps

[mint urchin]

In 10's the amp usually happens to soon after the big pack for DM imo

[leaden raven]

2x dawn thread lining or acension & wrap if you have a crafted weapon and 2 crafted non set pieces?

[normal mist]

!craft

[prisma monolith]

Preferences currently are wrist/belt/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" in raid, but has ramp time and is worse in m+
2x Dawnthread (wrist/belt) is generally the best in m+ and not far behind of Ascencion/Banding for raids. Equal in single target at 80% uptime

Craft a dagger if you're unlucky and don't get one and are down bad and crying about your pathetic little 580 main hand dagger. Put Ascencion on it
If you have a big dagger in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

[normal mist]

^ your choice

[leaden raven]

appreciated ❤️

[strange python]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[quasi wigeon]

is it bad if you have no haste ?

gearing and just puting everything thats more ilvl

[royal lantern]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[final star]

incredible build, recommend

Loved it

[spice spire]

No DTB seems like vile work

[cobalt sphinx]

giving it all up for tiny toxic blade and 1/2 zoldyck

[final star]

jealousy is so ugly on you all

[valid pulsar]

sanguine better than iron wire?

[final star]

unreal shit tbh

[spice spire]

7% sanguine damooj

[final star]

crazy!!!

[kindred ravine]

Sry to put this here but what makes monk tanks weak? is it their low offensve/defensive or is it a mix?

[final star]

they have zero self heal and sustain basically

[kindred ravine]

Me and my friends are having convo as to whether or not monk is worth for dps output on rogue

[final star]

it's not

in keys, anyway

[kindred ravine]

100% agree

What tank synergizes best with assas rogue in keys?

is it prot paladin becuase you can take off iron wire then

[cobalt sphinx]

warrior should do more damage and give you more damage

[kindred ravine]

and you can get the MA talent for 20% crit outta stealth

Thats valid

[slate crown]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1304492929171197984/comments_of_the_deranged.gif

[cobalt sphinx]

warrior is just easily the best all-around tank for general keys i think, tankiest and very little weaknesses

[spice spire]

Counterpoint Paladin throws so many shield you never need to run iron wire

(This is a meme do not do this)

[cobalt sphinx]

true but you could just drop iron wire with a warrior

and he can just reflect the spell casts that you let through

[spice spire]

Prot pally new meta post buff mister Mike dawg, sorry king

[cobalt sphinx]

if it targets a dps, that's a them problem

[spice spire]

Amen brother

You use vanish for you

[final star]

They hate me cos they ain't me tbh

[cobalt sphinx]

pally is better for the highest keys but i think it's harder to play and might be teched in to keep your main character blue class alive with sac and spellwarding

[clever perch]

Sudden Demise or Master assassin? which one is more important in 15s @balmy condor

[coral ibex]

amen talenting iron wire makes me wanna blow up

[clever perch]

im kinda struggling with talents decision

[coral ibex]

i heard those low key mdi gamers use iron wire

do they even push????

[slate crown]

you don't need to ping a recovering mental. lots of people in this chat can help answer (though I cannot)

[clever perch]

true sry xD

[spice spire]

It provides a lot more utility and damage.
Warrior is still insane tho

[coral ibex]

can i ping whispyr to help me choose my lunch

i’m hongy

[cobalt sphinx]

i just recommend warrior because it is more likely an idiot will survive the run on warrior

[clever perch]

can any experienced one help me decide then?

[spice spire]

St is usually the gate which ma helps a bit with.
Also depends on if you’re on a without a trace build.
If no WaT, I’d go SD personally but I’m not a pusher

If WaT, easy MA

[clever perch]

kush choice is MA instead of SD

[cobalt sphinx]

sandwich, ham cheese sprouts on french bread or dutch crunch if it's available

[coral ibex]

how do you get to 15s without being able to figure it out

[clever perch]

so im unsure

[spice spire]

Plus if you’re dropping SB, you need a path to iron wire

[clever perch]

cuz some ppl choose MA other ones choose SD

[spice spire]

What’s your gate on keys (damage wise) bosses or trash packs?

[clever perch]

https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/assassination/deathstalker/DAOFVVFRRBUVQmJBQCQRNVUVVFUYFQFKFQBEEVVVUCEA

[wanton imp]

thistle_tea,if=!buff.thistle_tea.up&(dot.kingsbane.ticking|debuff.shiv.remains>=4)|spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=4&debuff.shiv.remains>=6|fight_remains<=cooldown.thistle_tea.charges*6
Avoid overcapped energy, use with shiv, or dump charges at the end of a fight
The Avoid overcapped energy comment is probably an old comment right? Looks like we don't have any check for energy.

[clever perch]

question is, when should i go SD over MA

in which keys

[spice spire]

Literally here

[clever perch]

cuz i guess its worth to take SD in some specific keys

[spice spire]

SD Is a lot of aoe

[coral ibex]

you won’t be able to tell the difference and improving your play generally will provide a larger dps increase

[spice spire]

MA exists for st

That’s it

[clever perch]

so which keys would you say SD > MA

i guess from >15+u always go for MA over SD

i also saw people taking Forced Induction path in NW

[cerulean maple]

i never go SD personally just bc i sometimes have other rogues and then we compete for sd damage

speaking of AoE

does anyone know a more fun build than this for mythics im getting kinda boredge

[feral wasp]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1283842520308256858/image.png

[cerulean maple]

is outlaw fun this patch?? might have to play offspec to get some different gaming in

[shy pecan]

Yeah, I wanna say that’s more for the end of a fight than anything else

[quaint depot]

Okay, now i want SBS back, lol feels way different in the opener without it

[cerulean maple]

sbs my goat

its so nice to open with

free cp

[quaint depot]

Yeah no shot im running TTK instead of it after trying it out

[cerulean maple]

wait instead?

i run both

[cobalt sphinx]

are you talking about tea usage? yeah i think you just tea during shiv/kb now

[cerulean maple]

though honestly idk if i even like ttk

[quaint depot]

What else are you getting rid of?

[cerulean maple]

i dont run sd

[quaint depot]

I see

[cerulean maple]

let me dungeonslice rq

[spring stream]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
TLDR:Maintain max uptime on Envenom

• For Fatebound, Sanguine Blades is typically much better than Deathstalker. For this reason, if you can't maintain Envenom uptime anymore, you should build combo points, then reset your energy back to around 70% before maintaining again.
• For Deathstalker, try to stay under 50% as much as possible while maxing out Envenom uptime. Single target builds play Vicious Venoms instead of Sanguine Blades as well.

The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and use energy more efficiently for Deathstalker marks/cooldowns. Staying under 50% leads to more Envenom casts, which is more Darkest Night Procs. For Fatebound, heads flips contribute damage regardless of if you're flipping or not, so this pressure to keep spending is lessened.

[valid pulsar]

for deathstalker is sanguine/ttk better or worse than master assasin/ ironwire?

[limber lion]

Isn't that a bit of a dumb question?

[quaint depot]

I dont think there is ever a scenario where you dont run ironwire

[limber lion]

You're comparing 2 damage talents to 1 damage talent and one utility talent

If you need Iron Wire, it's obviously better

[hollow gazelle]

there is in a coordinated group for more dps

[limber lion]

But if you only need damage, taking 2 damage talents is better than 1

[hollow gazelle]

so you dropping doomblade and bones for ttk

[valid pulsar]

probably im like 1-2 weeks into rogue

[weary spear]

No dumb questions except for bis lists

[normal mist]

xD

[weary spear]

Usually you have 2 talent points to spend between TTK, MA, SD, and IW. Just pick the 2 you want. Can usually drop iron wire in 3-4 of the keys

[dense talon]

Man. I definitely weak aura to remind me to start saving energy for KB. it delays my KB usage and that in return screws the lineup with DM. is there any such weakura? Is there a way to get indication on top of my character if there is darkest night?

[valid pulsar]

gotcha ty

[dense talon]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[hollow gazelle]

is ma not always taken now?

[weary spear]

I take SD for more sustain in aoe. If no one has cd’s and pack takes too long to die is bad

Not playing subter

[hollow gazelle]

i normally play subter

[spring stream]

short q, when it comes to pooling, what is exactly meant by pandemic range?

[slate crown]

Darkest night is a simple buff on you, you can use a Template aura (New Aura- > Template) will walk you through the process.

The best way to remind yourself to start saving energy would just be a way to see your KB cooldown and your energy bar close by rather than making a specific "Pool energy" aura

[slate crown]

!pd

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[hollow gazelle]

if you reapply a bleed right before it ends it adds the last bit onto the next one

[spring stream]

ahh right i remember, thxx

[thorn slate]

yooo havent played in 3 weeks, is the talent trees on Wowhead up to date and good?

[slate crown]

yes batman

https://tenor.com/view/batman-adam-west-batman-dance-gif-19857769

[cerulean maple]

sorry i forgot to post this. Top is first pic 2nd is 2nd pic

so it seems like ttk is worth dropping for SD

[kind gorge]

how do we sim for aoe ?
Dung slice ?

[normal mist]

M+ yes

[quaint depot]

Thank you, yeah playing with out SBS felt completely horrible

so appreciate this

[west crown]

The reason we take ttk is for boss damage which we lack, we dont lack aoe

[lapis epoch]

I get that it varies alot depending on pulls etc.. any feelcraft estimation of decent numbers overall dmg in say gb 12?

[dim estuary]

Playing with forced induction changes something in the rotation ? or nothing ?

[royal lantern]

nothing

[dim estuary]

So even for CT we just do it at 5 cp ?

[runic hinge]

Yes

Every finisher is 5+ unless youre proccing darkest night

[dim estuary]

ty guys, first time I see some build with FI is on Ovinax so I thought it had something to do with some aoe or what

[blazing warren]

Wait, does it mean stay under 50% energy?

[quaint depot]

Yeah, to maximize envenom casts basically witout spamming and running out of energy and then dropping envenom uptime

[blazing warren]

So its normal to just not cast anything and wait for Envenom to tick down so you cast it again without wasting energy?

Thats whats confusing me a bit

[quaint depot]

Yeah that is normal

[blazing warren]

Guides say to wait for Envenom to tick down before refreshing

But as Outlaw you try to fill every GDC

So that feels wierd

[quaint depot]

Assa runs out of energy in ST if you do that

[blazing warren]

What about M+?

[quaint depot]

Youll do more damage if you maximize uptime on envenom while also getting as many envenom casts as you can

[blazing warren]

Since i will (probably) only play it in M+

[quaint depot]

same thing for ST in M+

[blazing warren]

Oh okay

Thank you

[quaint depot]

AoE it doesnt matter, you wont run out of energy

[blazing warren]

I guess it will be a big change trying to get used to that coming from Outlaw LOL

[quaint depot]

AOE you can safely spam, you have a ton of bleeds and poisons active and things are dying refunding you energy

[blazing warren]

Okay

[quaint depot]

after your opener you are basically just keeping Caustic spatter applied and using FoK and Envenom

in M+ on trash

[blazing warren]

FoK?

Fan of Knifes?

[quaint depot]

Fan of knives

[blazing warren]

So you makes sure your dots dont run out, make sure Caustic Splatter is rolling and make sure to refresh Envenom?

[twin bay]

yes

[quaint depot]

Yeah, except on trash mobs you spam envenom you dont have to watch the timer

[blazing warren]

Do you spam Envenom in aoe pulls during cds?

Oh okay

Thats big help thank you

Does anyone else think Crimson Tempest animation is not as good as it could?

[quaint depot]

Yeah its not that cool looking for sure, but theres enough animation bloat in this game that im fine with it

already hard enough to see your screen at times

[blazing warren]

True

I wish they would just allow you to customize what you see per spell

Think that would help

[molten flicker]

afaik whispyr keeps saying pooling is dead

[blazing warren]

What does that mean?

[runic hinge]

in raid single target yes, in m+ talents it is not

[blazing warren]

How much energy do you pool?

To be just above 50%?

[runic hinge]

you're just chaining envenom

pool to like 50% yeah if you run out

[molten flicker]

didn't you quote the bot command just now?

!pool

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
TLDR:Maintain max uptime on Envenom

• For Fatebound, Sanguine Blades is typically much better than Deathstalker. For this reason, if you can't maintain Envenom uptime anymore, you should build combo points, then reset your energy back to around 70% before maintaining again.
• For Deathstalker, try to stay under 50% as much as possible while maxing out Envenom uptime. Single target builds play Vicious Venoms instead of Sanguine Blades as well.

The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and use energy more efficiently for Deathstalker marks/cooldowns. Staying under 50% leads to more Envenom casts, which is more Darkest Night Procs. For Fatebound, heads flips contribute damage regardless of if you're flipping or not, so this pressure to keep spending is lessened.

[molten flicker]

" try to stay under 50% "

I dont think that means above 50%

but I might be mistaken

[blazing warren]

I just thought pooling means to have enough resources before you go into cds haha

[molten flicker]

it does?

[quaint depot]

Yeah just make sure you can spam in your kingsbane and dont put yourself in a situation where you drop bleeds

dont over think it

even if you mess up, youll do fine

[blazing warren]

Yeah but pooling command says to stay below 50% thats why it was confusing me when i quouted it

[molten flicker]

it's because of a talent we have that spends energy when we are above 50%

[coral ibex]

that is with sanguine blades

[quaint depot]

Yes, stay below because if you are going above 50 percent you are losing envenoms

[coral ibex]

if you don’t have that talent then it doesn’t apply

[molten flicker]

so the command tells u to save as much as possible without going over 50% so that talent doesn't eat your energy for you

[quaint depot]

It tells you in the command everything you need to know tbh lol

[molten flicker]

^

[runic hinge]

When playing deathstalker you wanna envenom as much as possible to proc darkest nights

[quaint depot]

Yeah, its not only about that talent, just read this part "The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and use energy more efficiently for Deathstalker marks/cooldowns. Staying under 50% leads to more Envenom casts, which is more Darkest Night Procs."

[blazing warren]

Oh okay

So getting energy drained by Sanguine Blades is bad?

Or like when you extend Envenoms well it automatically will not go above 50%?

[quaint depot]

Its saying if you pool more energy than 50 percent you are going to be missing envenom casts over the duration of the boss fight, which will lead to less DN procs

[hollow gazelle]

also interested in this question of taking it or not because sanguine does do a good chunck of dps

[balmy condor]

Yes

Wrong spec

[balmy condor]

In aoe it’s strong cause you have infinite energy so the downside isn’t really a downside

[merry bison]

Wish we would get drained by something else

[quaint depot]

In keys higher than 12 would you take sanguine blades? I havent quite figured out what my talent build should look like lol

[balmy condor]

You can

It’s an option

[quaint depot]

Fair. Prob depends on comp a bit

if you need the ST from other talents mroe etc

[balmy condor]

As is dropping/taking master assassin/bone spike/doomblade/sudden demise/without a trace/supercharger/lethality/twist the knife/iron wire

Welcome to the world of well balanced and situational talents

[quaint depot]

Yeah i tried the master assassin/ subterfuge build,the additional vanish charge and vanish heals you is quite nice

[arctic socket]

If she ain’t got 30 different builds I don’t want her

[blazing warren]

Does anyone have some sounds on spell cast?

[balmy condor]

Luckily you can mix and match into over 400 builds right now

[blazing warren]

Like for flavor?

[ancient tangle]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[merry bison]

:3

[balmy condor]

That’s me

[fickle light]

if you're running ttk should i be tracking the double durations?

[thin portal]

Im gonna have to try sin cuz im tired of declined everyday

sup sin rogues

[balmy condor]

Technically yes, practically not really

[merry bison]

Thought you were at work and not laying on your couch

[merry bison]

Nothing will change

[balmy condor]

I am

[merry bison]

Sadge

[fickle light]

is there anywhere i can read to see how i should be playing with it? because i'm trying to keep them both up in ST and i feel like i'm just running out of mana immediately

[quaint depot]

I get declined constantly at 3k io on my Rsham, by people with 300 less io than me

so good luck

[balmy condor]

Yep, that’s by design

If you can’t maintain 2, just wait a bit

[merry bison]

Getting into 13s is alright, 14s are a different story tho

[balmy condor]

Most of the gain is during cooldowns anyway

So like outside of cooldowns you can maintain 1 stack or even kinda ignore it and spam your energy away

[fickle light]

should i try and have both envenom up before going into cds or is that not that important

[balmy condor]

And it’s basically no consequence

[balmy condor]

Nah just 1 like normal

[fickle light]

nice thank you

[balmy condor]

Envenom -> cooldown

[quaint depot]

Hmm, have i been botching my opener on bosses? I normally ambush, garrote, rupture, DM, KB, then i go into my envenom and by then typically its close to the 8 s on kingsbane for shiv

[blazing warren]

In aoe as well?

If you have single Shiv you want to use it for the last 8s of Kingsbane right?

[merry bison]

Aren’t we suppose to squeeze shiv right after DM into KB

[quaint depot]

no, youre supposed to shiv the last 8 seconds of KB if you only have 1 charge of shiv

[merry bison]

[thorn slate]

oh is Forced induction the best ST talent now?

[young rune]

does it matter if I macro death mark and skardyn's grace together? any reason this would not be advised?

[quaint depot]

You should macro it together, they line up perfectly

[young rune]

ty!

[weary spear]

You want envenom up for CD window. Consider it maintenance similar to your bleeds

[blazing warren]

I am noting everything in here

[quaint depot]

Does that include during the opener?

[weary spear]

Yeah mostly for KB ramp

[quaint depot]

Okay, so dont death mark/ KB/ etc until after ive envenomed

got it

[cobalt sphinx]

yeah i think everyone does this, it can get desynced because of the affix this week though

[blazing warren]

So just to be clear, Envenom in AoE before cooldowns as well yes?

Or thats just ST

[quaint depot]

Yeah, i think so Mignia, i think it could be contextual on how over geared you are for the content, some stuff just dies so quick you are trying to squeeze damage in, but yeah on content that you are pushing, id say yes

[weary spear]

I do in higher keys where they live longer. Then CT last

[valid sand]

has anyone done hard mode Zekvir after the adjustment? seems impossible to me. Mechanics are easy but the incoming damage is too high

*solo

[static glacier]

which boss do we send cds on in last dmg phase of court

chunky guy or tzatziki

[royal lantern]

you take healer brann and pick up health pots all the time to have a 100% uptime on the HoT

[balmy condor]

Yes both

[valid sand]

in my experience you just get chunked by a melee crit (~3-4 m) and a tick or two of the debuff (1.7m ish) and you fall over regardless of the HoT

[royal lantern]

you dont die to auto hits if you actively pick up the health potss

and the debuff is cloak/vanish to remove it

first one you let brann dispell

after that you circle trought cloak or vanish for it

[valid sand]

vanish clears it?

[runic hinge]

or brann gets knocked unconcious cause hes dumb and stops throwing pots and you lose

[valid sand]

^ that too

[royal lantern]

evasion, he sstands up after 15ssec

[blazing warren]

Thank you for the help guys

[royal lantern]

its a slow, yes

[runic hinge]

evasion is 10 seconds

[royal lantern]

yes, and you have health potions and feint+he will probs cast something

like, the fight IS bullshit rng, dont get me wrong

[runic hinge]

I had him to 10% twice yesterday and he crit me for 4 mill

[royal lantern]

you sometimes die without doing anything wrong

[runic hinge]

everything on cd

[royal lantern]

but you can play around alot of sstuff

but its still rng bullsshitery at the end

if brann dies 2x cus he stands in stuff, ye you wipe

if the cleave is giga delayed at max range while you hit the egg, you die

if brann just never dispells at all cus idk what he is doing, you die

[valid sand]

my biggest issues are with brann being stupid & weird bugs with aggro after vanish

[runic hinge]

I've had brann dispel back to back dots and then just not dispel a whole run

cool challenge

[royal lantern]

the dispell is supposed to have a ~1min cd

so in theory you can brann dispell->vanish->cloak->dispell

in reality you get the first dot, and just die cus he doesnt do it

lmao

[runic hinge]

I'm gonna go try again

[valid sand]

what relics do you run?

[royal lantern]

arrow+morph

and hope that morph rolls the +dmg/healing done

[runic hinge]

I run arrow and the extra potions one

12% ddamage done and I'd probably be done tho

[royal lantern]

extra potion feels kinda waste when you realise that brann throws new potions when you use up all the ones on the ground

[sterile ore]

u think this is best for rasha´nan Mythic ?

[royal lantern]

like, when no potions are around and you take ANY dmg, he throws new pots

[royal lantern]

you just play a normal cookie cutter 100% ST build

you cant cleave the adds

cus they are too far away from the boss

• they die in 2sec anyway

[wheat vigil]

Speccing into supercharger, I guess you only use shivs for that if you’re sure they’ll be up again for your next kb window? Seems kinda counterintuitive

[sterile ore]

going with storm ?

u think

think i will try

[runic hinge]

forgot the fear sends out little fear balls

otherwise that run wasn't bad

[wheat vigil]

Not at all

[royal lantern]

shiv usage stays 100% the same

you ignore that supercharger exists

[wheat vigil]

Humor me then - why take it

[royal lantern]

1 of the biggest whatever talent in the game

you use shiv, next 2 envenoms are stronger

thats it

"finisher has more CP" is just not really a big insane effect that changes how you play something

it just % more dmg

[wheat vigil]

Thought the idea was to line them up with desthstalker

[arctic socket]

Damn so 400 is the limit?

[royal lantern]

no, you dont do that

[wheat vigil]

I see

[royal lantern]

and you use shiv with deathmark/kb anyway

[wheat vigil]

Ignoring it sounds like the right play then

[royal lantern]

where you use more envenoms, aka DN will happen, aka the charger will very likely overlap with a DN envenom anyway

[wheat vigil]

Gotcha, thanks

[thorn slate]

Why do so many play Subterfuge/1xtra Vanish talents for mythic+ ?

[wheat vigil]

Multigarrote I thought

Course I could just be a lunatic

[twin bay]

because higher io means they are right

its rly that most of the people playing do it because some high players do it without questioning hte reason behind it

[thorn slate]

But dont we get that from indiscriminate carnage?

So the stealth thing makes it last longer than 6 sec?

[static glacier]

longer master assassin / iron wire uptime

[thorn slate]

oooh ok so you get 12sec of +20% crit chance?

[twin bay]

subterfuge is very good i was refering to second vanish

[muted ridge]

dont play Caustic, does 0 dmg, actual dps loss on Rasha'nan. Go for full boss dmg.

[cobalt sphinx]

caustic is fine if your strat puts the adds close

[runic hinge]

okayt

[thorn slate]

But yes sorry never got an answer before. Forced Induction is it a must have for single target?

[clever sapphire]

i mean what else you gonna take

[cobalt sphinx]

i think a lot of people are using lethality instead

[clever sapphire]

lethality was the top sim afaik before, until they fixed the kb double dip

[gloomy heart]

can i dm someone my raid log and they tell me what looks wrong

[clever sapphire]

just post it here with context, someone gonna look at it like 90% of the time

[gloomy heart]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/whLabZ4tyc13gmNA#fight=27&type=damage-done&source=1310 2nd mythic boss

[clever sapphire]

well what i can see instantly is you delaying your dm up until 3:10 so now you just lost out on a dm cast?

[gloomy heart]

I was under with the mobs

so i delayed it until im up again

[keen spruce]

send that bitch on the boss

let the warriors kill the adds

you also feinted in your opener

[humble verge]

do yall run spyglass over sacbrood in keys?

[keen spruce]

but that doesn't actually matter

[clever sapphire]

feint is off gcd so doesnt matter tho

[keen spruce]

cost energy idk

but also doesn't matter during lust

[humble verge]

-25 energy saj

[keen spruce]

i'm m+ brained

[clever sapphire]

bl + all cds + tea + cope + doesnt matter

[keen spruce]

I'd punch a baby for a single crumb of energy on bosses in keys

[humble verge]

real

[clever sapphire]

big problem is prob gonna be the fact that you straight up lost out on a dm cast

and also a kingsbane

[gloomy hinge]

why is your caustic doing 0 dmg compared to sudden demise

[clever sapphire]

well a single kb isnt much ,but its still dmg

[gloomy heart]

Other than that, it looks fine?

[gloomy hinge]

is it a +2 or somethin

[clever sapphire]

from my non smart review it looked aight, or so i would say

but wat da hell happened here mister

you just dropped your hero tree

and never got it up again

[undone hamlet]

really quick question, if you use supercharger, and your at max combo points with the supercharged combo points, does your finisher hit for your normal max 7 combo points, or do you get 7 + supercharged combos?

[silk bane]

7+ supercharger

[gloomy heart]

is this ulgrax

i died on ulg

[clever sapphire]

nope

[gloomy hinge]

Also is there a channel for log review or do i just slam it in here?

[gloomy heart]

hmm ill work on keeping it up

ty

[clever sapphire]

so in short from my not so smart review, you lost out on CD casts which is big, you lost your hero tree half the way

and its an add fight where you wont get much time to pad with most setups meaning harder to log

[clever sapphire]

slam with context

[gloomy heart]

ill get better as i go ig

[clever sapphire]

if you lose your tree just cast vanish ambush

but i guess you gotta realise that you lost it

[gloomy hinge]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VL4RvDBr81qKYhjC#fight=27&type=damage-done&source=183

nexus princess, what can be improved?

2nd time playing ass rogue on it

[full tide]

If dropping Iron Wire in the new double vanish build, would you recommend Sanguine Blades or Twist the Knife? Looking at a 12 mists

[limber lion]

Because it's a +5 key, I didn't play Kingsbane and everything died instantly so there is no point spattering stuff

[full tide]

but M+ in general

[keen spruce]

@gloomy heart if you're in a group/guild that requires you to hard focus adds then your parse is just gonna suffer. I normally just completely ignore them when my CDs are up. but that requires a group that doesn't care if you're hitting them or not

[limber lion]

Should have just played Internal Bleeding kek

[keen spruce]

both

[gloomy heart]

I did lfg

[gloomy hinge]

aah i see

[full tide]

only leaves me one talent point

[keen spruce]

can do this, or drop sang blades for MA

oh yeah you take MA or SB

i haven't seen builds with both

[gloomy hinge]

both, drop sudden demise

[ionic aspen]

guys: dead eye spayglass > empowering crystal?

[keen spruce]

I prefer to drop MA for more vanish flexibility but that isn't quite as necessary without IW

[gloomy hinge]

depends on if aoe or not no?

[quaint depot]

Yeah

[ionic aspen]

aoe

[keen spruce]

depends son your gear. I take spyglass in raid and crystal in keys

[gloomy hinge]

I think the difference is so small between them

Its same same

[gloomy heart]

Ascensions prob worse than the other one right? and i should get the siege trinket?

[clever sapphire]

you went into your first CDs without envenom buff so a minimal loss there, no tea during 2nd kb, "low" ilvl for a hc log

[keen spruce]

lfg = ignore mechanics and pump

[clever sapphire]

i would say

[ionic aspen]

dead eye sims worse than crystal in ST for me thats weird

[strange python]

!macro

[keen spruce]

not really, just depends on your other gear

[gloomy hinge]

HUH low ilvl for a hc log?

[strange python]

Whats the command for mouseovers guys?

[gloomy hinge]

Ah yeah i missed tea i remember

Also only have 98% bleed uptime i think

ALSO i Forgot to buy tempered potions so i had 0 of tempered potion buff

[keen spruce]

pots pretty big

[ionic aspen]

ok gotcha.. in ST dead eye in aoe crystal thank you ❤️

[clever sapphire]

top logs are 632-534 ilvl, also they kill it 2 minutes faster

[keen spruce]

but yeah people that are like mid 630's could still be doing heroic for very rares

[clever sapphire]

you played almost as good as you could

[keen spruce]

so 625 is gonna have a hard time competing with them

[clever sapphire]

just losing to kill time/ilvl

[gloomy hinge]

ahhh alright

[gloomy hinge]

Alright well,glad to hear that atleast.

Think it'd be a few points higher if i had tempered potion active however :/

[clever sapphire]

i mean probably since it gives you dmg

[devout lantern]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[quaint depot]

Im trying to wrap my head around dead eye ever simming worse than crystal. Isnt crystal less stats + a random stat, and Dead eye is more stats and always our best stat?

[devout lantern]

we need to have hast boys?

[clever sapphire]

dead eye is crit, if he already has lots of crit its gonna be worse by default imo

[clever sapphire]

you need all the stats

[devout lantern]

yeah but a cap in specific?

[clever sapphire]

nah

just when sim tells you to take another stat instead

[devout lantern]

and versa?

[clever sapphire]

every stat is the same for assa

!energy

[prisma monolith]

Running out of energy in single target is completely normal, intended design of Assassination. You want to be playing for the highest uptime on Envenom, and not blindly spamming away all your energy. Rapid Injection, Sanguine Blades, and Vicious Venoms all play into this gameplay.

• No, haste will not make this feel noticeably better.
• 10% haste only contributes to around 2 actions per minute
• You should be playing for envenom uptime in single target

[devout lantern]

cause i have the choices of 3% hast 6% versa and 7% hast 1% versa

[clever sapphire]

ah there

the haste command

[ionic aspen]

gimme sec im simming again maybe i did some crap

[clever sapphire]

sim to decide, but for keys i guess the more vers is better because dr? dunno

[ionic aspen]

accidently

[clever sapphire]

those dont seem like massive differences where it would matter a lot

[quaint depot]

Yeah i mean maybe if you have like 20,000 crit already, but i feel like maybe you had the spyglass at a lower ilvl or something lol

[sharp ore]

Any must have standalone macros or weak auras?? not a huge fan of the whole set of weak auras

[clever sapphire]

you can macro dm and skardyn, shiv and tea if you want and thats it for macros

[ionic aspen]

i got 12k crit rn @quaint depot

[clever sapphire]

as long as you can track your bleeds/envenom uptime and deathstalkers mark you dont need anything else imo

[sharp ore]

Kk thanks

[quaint depot]

Yeah that doesnt seem particularly high to me, I feel like spyglass should be simming quite a bit better than crystal

[clever sapphire]

send in da sim

(i would never play spyglass in keys, forced to one target feck that)

[ionic aspen]

ye

spyglass only raids i guess

and crystal m+

[clever sapphire]

i mean for me crystal sims better than arakara trinket in st/aoe

[quaint depot]

I guess, you have to stay on a prio target the whole time anyways i feel like

[clever sapphire]

dont have spyglass but wouldnt even sim that

[ionic aspen]

ara kara sucks

[clever sapphire]

aight actually fun fact, im just running highest ilvl items and only maybe simming vault this season

[ionic aspen]

but ritual knife also sims better than crystal for me with skardyn

for m+

[keen spruce]

knife is good

[clever sapphire]

ritual knife is good, its just not top top tier because its hero track locked

[keen spruce]

just doesn't compete with myth track trinkets

yeah what purlock said

[grim jay]

False

Depends on gear and which trinket

[keen spruce]

doesn't always compete

u pedantic fuk

[ionic aspen]

l0l

[grim jay]

Ima hit you on your mouth