assassination

[spice spire]

Twist the knife

[lone siren]

Dear rogues, i need your light... For the first time, today, i got killed by the first boss of NW, cuz of his vomit... I ALWAYS cloak it and never take any damage, why did a got kill today ?
Plus, i got CR and from the second vomit i took 0 damage with a feint. I dodged it. How does it work please ? oO

[lethal arrow]

uhmm mistor wowhead, your crafted items have vers and crit on them

[charred helm]

the envenom overlap buff

[coral ibex]

!nw

[prisma monolith]

The breath/frontal from the first boss in Necrotic Wake is bugged and goes through cloak of shadows despite it doing magic damage.
To prevent this you need to have the first second of cloak up whenever the breath hits you, in other words cast cloak when his cast has less than a second left, then it will be immuned and you will not take damage.
Sidenote: You can also use evasion to dodge the breath whenever cloak is not ready.

[balmy condor]

I'm going to throat punch myself

[iron carbon]

Sometimes, it bug

[sturdy mesa]

"need your light" bro we are literally gremlins who live in the shadows

[crimson zephyr]

ah I dont have that hmm

[warm vortex]

Shhh it's ok

[coral ibex]

its not bugged

[spice spire]

How about I just throat punch you

[coral ibex]

the behavior is 100% reliable

[iron carbon]

!nw

[prisma monolith]

The breath/frontal from the first boss in Necrotic Wake is bugged and goes through cloak of shadows despite it doing magic damage.
To prevent this you need to have the first second of cloak up whenever the breath hits you, in other words cast cloak when his cast has less than a second left, then it will be immuned and you will not take damage.
Sidenote: You can also use evasion to dodge the breath whenever cloak is not ready.

[sturdy mesa]

dont do it

[coral ibex]

the belch is an attack that does nature damage, cloak doesn't immune attacks except the first second

[iron carbon]

Leggit the first sentence

Say it's bugged

[coral ibex]

yea and i already argued about it

whoever wrote it refuses to change it

[marble hemlock]

I just did 4 hours of Ansurek prog without getting KB parried a single time. AMA.

[lethal arrow]

my mastery is cooked

[crimson zephyr]

should I switch dragon tempered blades for ttk?

[iron carbon]

Cause you argue, you're right?

[balmy condor]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[lone siren]

Your telling me, since soooo long i time my cloak without any knowledge and it save me each time ? xD

[iron carbon]

During SL, you could COS anytime

[spice spire]

Yes

[sturdy mesa]

Do we get rework in season 2

[spice spire]

Correct but this tier you cannot

[iron carbon]

[lethal arrow]

chat ist es over für mich

[balmy condor]

I don't want to be meta anymore

[warm vortex]

Guys in season 4 of the war within whats the best items for us

[balmy condor]

make it stop

[coral ibex]

anyone have a 2026 all boss overall damage tier list

need to prove a point

[iron carbon]

Yes, so it's a bug

[lethal arrow]

buy a scratcher

[marble hemlock]

dont play DH

[sturdy mesa]

When are you making guide for ptr?

[balmy condor]

you want a mute now or later

[sturdy mesa]

Is there a third option perhaps

[spice spire]

It could be by design. There are a lot of things changed to be less cheesy

[balmy condor]

you shutting the fuck up

[spice spire]

Semantics literally doesn’t matter

[sturdy mesa]

🫣

[spice spire]

Both is also an option

[marble hemlock]

wouldnt a mute do that?

[frigid sonnet]

ok thanks so much

[iron carbon]

Design that does not make sense

[balmy condor]

illusion of choice

[coral ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/g-man-half-life-gif-26268160

[novel star]

?

for wha

[spice spire]

Buddy. You okay the same game right - this isn’t an uncommon thing

[frigid sonnet]

for the response

[spice spire]

You can no longer kick 500 things in bfa dungeon

Or things in the maze on mists

[novel star]

all i did was ask you to screenshot it

[iron carbon]

I mean, it doesn't match the tooltip

[spice spire]

These are all design choices

[iron carbon]

of COS

[novel star]

but sure W i’ll take it

[coral ibex]

an attack isn't a spell, so not sure which part is unclear

[spice spire]

Brethren. Tooltips in wow are a meme. They are inaccurate very often

[iron carbon]

Breath is really considered as an attack?

[coral ibex]

yes

it is an attack that does nature damage

which i said earlier

[late surge]

speaking of nature damage that goes through cloak

second boss mists balls go through cloak now

[spice spire]

Yeah and so do mine what of it

[iron carbon]

Gonna go sleep less stupid then

[spice spire]

[late surge]

but urs are nice

her balls hurt

😦

[spice spire]

Yeah they do

That’s a real stupid one

[late surge]

I mean I remember cloak working on it this ssn

[spice spire]

They’re nerfing cloak so they can buff crimson vial

[late surge]

so I guess .5 it got changed xd

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

!nw

[prisma monolith]

The breath/frontal from the first boss in Necrotic Wake is an attack, not a spell.

In order to immune the the breath, you must be in the first second of cloak of shadows (“a moment of magic immunity”). After the first second of cloak of shadows has elapsed, the attack will hit you and no longer be immuned.
Alternatively you can use evasion to dodge the breath.

[spice spire]

Bless u

[coral ibex]

[spice spire]

Love u

[slim pebble]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cobalt sphinx]

try evasion next time and report back with your findings

[spice spire]

[coral ibex]

the mountain i was dying on has been knocked over by an earthquake

W

[novel star]

Quake

[spice spire]

Mb

[spice spire]

Hi friend how can I help you

[novel star]

they said earthquake

[spice spire]

Ahh

[novel star]

i thought it was funny

[neat yoke]

imagine still having yours in 2024

[spice spire]

Don’t have to they’re still there

[silent stratus]

how rotation changes w/ MA and without a trace?

[wispy marsh]

Hello rogues

[coral ibex]

xd

[neat yoke]

lost mine in the incident

[coral ibex]

vanish for ma uptime during kingsbane

[silent stratus]

and no more vanish before deathmark for imp garrote?

[balmy condor]

well if you're vanishing for MA uptime during kingsbane

[lethal arrow]

vanish the last 6 seconds of KB

[balmy condor]

it's pretty challenging to vanish before dm

[lethal arrow]

to maximize the dmg

[spice spire]

You have an extra vanish if you need it and you just vanish last 6s of kb in st and just

[coral ibex]

well if you're playing WAT you have 11s of MA

so you vanish at 11s left in kb

[balmy condor]

12 even

many people are saying this

they're eating the subterfuge

[coral ibex]

whats the angle of 12 vs 11?

[balmy condor]

6 + 3 + 3 is 12

[waxen oyster]

so whispyr wtf do i use vanish for

in the ovinax build

[novel star]

[coral ibex]

oh right its iron wire that got changed to 5

[novel star]

nothing

[coral ibex]

[iron carbon]

Remove roots

[waxen oyster]

no ma no imp garr

[marble hemlock]

feel like subterfuge should add 6 seconds to the silence on stealth garrotes

[balmy condor]

ya

deleto rooto

[waxen oyster]

So what dwarf does but another one

[novel star]

yea if ur team ints you and roots melee u can vanish

[balmy condor]

can't play dwarf if you're playing goblin

[waxen oyster]

goblin....

[balmy condor]

goblin deez nuts

[short lake]

Does anybody know if this also applies to other stuff like the ae from the boneboy in front of the second boss? I could swear that was cloakable too in SL

[balmy condor]

it does not apply

[cobalt sphinx]

yeah i found out the hard way that that shit is physical

[waxen oyster]

that was cloakable

they just said fuck you

it wont work

[novel star]

can you first sec it

[balmy condor]

no

[novel star]

i’m too scared to try

[balmy condor]

it's phys

[short lake]

Yeah but it’s also not evadeable so what’s that shit 😂

[novel star]

okay can you evade it i think i tried this before and died

okay gg

aids pig dungeon

[balmy condor]

no

you can't

it's not an attack

aoe is not an attack

it's aoe

[novel star]

except the aoe on the first boss that’s an attack

[iron carbon]

Maybe evasion + feint, you survive

[short lake]

But there have been plenty of ae abilities you were able to evade

[coral ibex]

maybe can true immune it with cloak? idk

[balmy condor]

that's a targetted attack

oh my god

you fucking apes

okay

[short lake]

At least on past expansion

[balmy condor]

if I target you

call you a slur

[novel star]

whispyr im going to eat you buddy

[coral ibex]

which slur

[balmy condor]

and then throw a massive right hook directly into your face

can you dodge it

yes or no

[cobalt sphinx]

immune the phys hit

[coral ibex]

i mean if you're just built diffy...

[balmy condor]

CAN YOU

DODGE

A RIGHT HOOK

YES

OR

NO

[novel star]

if i target you with a chaos bolt can you dodge that lil bro?

[short lake]

With evade I can 😂

[balmy condor]

OKAY

YOU CAN

[novel star]

can you evade my magical damage targeted attack

[balmy condor]

so now

stay with me

fucking focus

for 3 seconds

[novel star]

answer me liberal

[lethal arrow]

hes gunna explode

[balmy condor]

if I pull out

[subtle tundra]

dont say slurs

[balmy condor]

a fucking rocket launcher

[coral ibex]

dont pull out

[balmy condor]

and I bomb your house

can you dodge it

yes

or

no

[lethal arrow]

[agile kestrel]

never pull out. always nut inside.

[iron carbon]

Murican ref I guess

[short lake]

I don’t know man I’m talking about shitty WoW mechanics and not real life calm down please 😂

[novel star]

well the difference on blighrbone is his rocket launcher hits you directly but it’s still a rocket launcher

[balmy condor]

ITS

TARGETED

[novel star]

and also answer the bolt question u weasel

[balmy condor]

YOU FUCKING IMBECILE

[novel star]

answer it.

[coral ibex]

whats your spell hit rating

[quasi stump]

If im fast enough

[balmy condor]

WHAT PART OF TARGETED DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND

READ

ITS PLAIN ENGLISH

[short lake]

Okay man thanks for answering my question

[novel star]

are bolts not targeted

[short lake]

Like an absolute asshole 😂

[balmy condor]

I can't anymore

[short lake]

Gn8 ✌️

[quasi stump]

bro's never dodged a rocket launcher

[novel star]

love u whispyr

[balmy condor]

the education system failed all of you

[iron carbon]

Speaking of it, why can't we evade Separate Flesh from Separation Assistant before 3rd boss?

[cobalt haven]

All child left behind

[novel star]

answer that one whispyr if that even is ur real name

why cant we just evade every hit in the game

suspicious

[coral ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/reaction-laugh-giggle-will-smith-gif-7737603

[marble hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/qeliameow-cat-paw-cats-paw-dance-gif-3807241812430059413

[iron carbon]

I mean, you evade the whole fixation stuff, but you don't dodge it

Targeted + Physical

[balmy condor]

okay mother fucker

I'm going to ask this

one time

what does a caster do

[iron carbon]

He casts

[balmy condor]

thank you

[late surge]

will do in my next weekly boss

[iron carbon]

So, if the tooltip of the spell mention "cast" you don't dodge

But "fires" "Shoots" "Throw" it's ok

[balmy condor]

within reason, yes

[iron carbon]

Thank you 🙂

Btw, you need a break I think

[balmy condor]

the actual question to be asking is usually "how dumb would this ability be if a brewmaster monk was standing in front of it perma dodging it"

cause they're like 95% of the reason things either dodge or not

[high walrus]

haven't stepped into raid content in idk how long

why do bosses still parry

what year is this

[balmy condor]

2024

[coral ibex]

[balmy condor]

stand behind the boss

[coral ibex]

flavor

[runic hinge]

Thematics

[marble hemlock]

[royal lantern]

@marble hemlock

[balmy condor]

what the hell could you possibly disagree with

[marble hemlock]

its a great mechanic that really rewards good positioning and skill expression, especially because no encounter whatsoever forces you to stand in front of the boss sometimes for prolonged periods of time

[slim pebble]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[coral ibex]

reintroduce spell hit

[high walrus]

if I cared about anything thematic in an mmo I'd go play ff14

[coral ibex]

let a mage whiff an arcane blast or 2

see how long thematic and flavorful boss abilities stick around

sorry, the boss is level 84 and you don't have 100% hit

[marble hemlock]

never happens that bosses turn to cast a spell on somebody and parry, or that you have to stand in front of them to do a soak mechanic that the tank has to join, or that you have to move a boss and thus his hitbox is really awkward.

pure skill expression

[iron carbon]

Rasha'nan isn't always facing us?

[marble hemlock]

dont think rash can parry

[high walrus]

why not

[fervent rune]

Happens to me on bloodbound

[coral ibex]

pretty sure they disable parry on bosses that are always facing you

[marble hemlock]

cuz its disabled on that boss

[balmy condor]

they also disabled it on krosus

[iron carbon]

Hmmm, good to know

[high walrus]

not very thematic of them

[marble hemlock]

but theres fights like ovinax where he has a really dogshit hitbox and you have to move the boss a lot and stand in front of the boss at times to do eggs etc.

[high walrus]

does bloodbound parry

[marble hemlock]

or kyveza that just pulls everybody to a location, including tanks

[marble hemlock]

yes

[coral ibex]

ovinax's parry arc is 359 degrees

[high walrus]

[coral ibex]

you can't change my mind

[marble hemlock]

or silken court where you have to stand in front of the boss at times due to how you tank the fight

or ansurek where you constantly drag the boss and have to stand together in a puddle with the tanks

[runic hinge]

Thematic as hell

[marble hemlock]

pure skill

[runic hinge]

It’s true. That’s where the skill diff lies

[restive dew]

hi, im new to rogue in general, im struggling with energy on single target, is it normal to run out of steam short after opener if I dont have tea ready?

[runic hinge]

Just don’t get parried

[coral ibex]

yes

[marble hemlock]

so thematic and important, that certain abilities literally cannot be parried

like shiv

[coral ibex]

!design

[prisma monolith]

Running out of energy in single target is completely normal, intended design of Assassination. You want to be playing for the highest uptime on Envenom, and not blindly spamming away all your energy. Rapid Injection, Sanguine Blades, and Vicious Venoms all play into this gameplay.

• No, haste will not make this feel noticeably better.
• 10% haste only contributes to around 2 actions per minute
• You should be playing for envenom uptime in single target

[runic hinge]

I imagine shiv always comes in from the side

Like you’re going for their ribs

[restive dew]

also in the wowhead guide they speak of 2 charges of shiv, my build has 1 I use some time after kingsbane?

[soft shale]

yea last 8 secs

[ripe bobcat]

Hey ho rogues, short question: Spyglas sims very high and is listed as BiS. I did a HC Raid today and noticed, that the trinket proccs only a few times (1-3 per Boss and sometimes 1 refresh). Am i doing something wrong or did they change the procc chance?

[restive dew]

what do I do with shiv when kingsbane is still on cd 30s vs 1 min

[runic hinge]

You can send it but shiv doesn’t do shit in aoe

[ripe bobcat]

^^

[runic hinge]

So if you’re on a boss you can send

[restive dew]

but the nature damage increase?

[runic hinge]

Only for the target you shiv

[soft shale]

usually if you have arterial shiv can be fine in aoe too

but the diff is not big

and you dont run that one with m+ builds anyway

[runic hinge]

I don’t think anyone is running ap currently

[restive dew]

yeah i forgot the meta build has no aoe shiv talent

[soft shale]

first time i played ovi nax think the build used it

but it was a long time a go

now sub is better so i cba

[restive dew]

man it feels strange to run out of energy

[runic hinge]

The cleave raid build has it

[soft shale]

yea in st you will run out of energy often+

[serene solar]

We killed bloodbound again just as farm on our way to prog last night and it parried my KB again. I think me and that boss need to meet each other in a parking lot. Sick of his shit

[restive dew]

I also cant find anything about the energy in ST on wowhead guide or im blind, seems like an important topic for new people to assa

ok i see it nvm

[iron carbon]

[spice spire]

I’ll beat his ass too for u king

Ain’t no way

[serene solar]

Yeah when the group has to run out completely, I have been just using cloak for uptime and DM and KB line up right around that time and he has parried me twice now in two weeks.

[spice spire]

Man said no cheating

Damn

[serene solar]

Bro

He made me lose to a fury warrior

[old hedge]

What can i drop here to get MA?
i feel like this is the best build but everyone says not playing MA is trolling

[balmy condor]

you either drop sudden demise, sanguine blades, or bone spike

[spice spire]

All I’m seeing is another reason to nerf fury tbh

[old hedge]

in which situations do i drop what?
i assume for high keys bone spike should be dropped?

[restive dew]

I also struggle with darkest night, it forces 7 combo points but what if after 2 mutilates i land at 6 and have to spend another bunch of energy to get to 7 and completely deplete it

[serene solar]

That fury is my buddy and he would need to book a therapist if they get nerfed again. Bro was dooming so hard when it was just nerf after nerf before that last buff they got.

[spice spire]

Nah be parsed lower but did more dam

Seems like a nerf angle

[serene solar]

So hear me out, I guess I can test this myself but does anyone know if in that moment on bloodbound where everyone gets out of the massive purple circle. Can I run around to the back side of the boss or is he just going to look at me since im the only person in his range.

[spice spire]

You can definitely go behind him.

I’m like 95% sure

[serene solar]

Alright ima try and pay more attention cause I hate being parried

[severe sparrow]

im pretty sure he doesnt look at me when i cloak and stay in

also like

95% sure

[serene solar]

Alright cool, I might have just been too far in front or on his side

[restive dew]

also why thistle tea is auto using ?

[coral ibex]

bc thats what it does

[serene solar]

A patch did that for quality of life

[ripe bobcat]

Anlacky

[novel star]

11.0.5 change

fall below 30 energy = drink tea

[coral ibex]

the tooltip is worded so strangely

makes it sound like its instructing you to use it at 30

[vast patio]

Noob question: did we lose that talent that made blind a pretty great dam debuff?

[arctic tusk]

any way i can tell if mythic sacbrood vs hero mandate on mythic islken court

[novel star]

no

[arctic tusk]

and see which is better

[ripe bobcat]

would have been great to give us the choice _> auto use yes/no

[vast patio]

I guess I'm blind

[novel star]

choice node with tricks @vast patio

[arctic tusk]

maybe this is a @balmy condor question

[balmy condor]

no

fight is too complex

gotta feel it

[novel star]

probably mandate because double damage bomba

[coral ibex]

[lethal arrow]

its actually the delve candle trinket cuz ur stacking on ur group members

[frigid sonnet]

@balmy condor i have an aura or a macro that if i cast the macro automatically send a whisp to the player that can be a pala or priest maybe is a custom wa?

[coral ibex]

[runic hinge]

What

[balmy condor]

idk I always just added a /w into my dm for pi

[old hedge]

some thoughts pls? @balmy condor

[coral ibex]

he answered you here

[old hedge]

? that's what im replying to

[coral ibex]

have you considered applying your own brain to the problem

or even a sim

😮

[spice spire]

No need to be rude about it

[old hedge]

why so hostile?

[royal lantern]

blackjack, shares a node with tricks (lol tricks lmao)

[spice spire]

But you can’t have someone tell you what to do for every single scenario, there’s just too many to go through to have a specific build for, that’s not how it works. He provides the info and you apply it as you find necessary.
If it were more cut and dry whispyr probably would.

Also I’m like speaking for him when he’s more than capable of speaking for himself but. Yeah: it’s a lot you have to find what makes sense for you in the situations you’re presented

[true condor]

some destiny guiding me to sin

[drifting cloud]

theres too many moving parts, youre better of asking streamers why they do X in Y dungeon
and btw this is all irrelevant unless youre doing 14+ keys

[true condor]

masters

its been 2 weeks i get grace in vault

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

it's up to preference mostly

[drifting cloud]

happy for you

[novel star]

bis ring

[old hedge]

Fair, but some of the rogue talents just don't really explain themselves good enough so i just don't understand the implications and consequences of not having sudden demise vs. not having sanguine blade for example. Like where does the change prove itself.
I think rogue is one of the most complex classes so obviously people are gonna be confused and asking questions 🤷‍♂️

[runic hinge]

[keen spruce]

I have finally simmed most of the variations in the m+ builds for myself to see what all is the fuss is about...

I have concluded, it literally doesn't fkin matter what you play they're all within like 3% of eachother and you're just trading at tiny bit of ST for Aoe. My time has been wasted and you're all stinky

[spice spire]

Mf says he wasted his time but has played wow for ten days straight

Curious

[keen spruce]

casually

[spice spire]

Dog

Aren’t you running 13s

[keen spruce]

14s

but it with azralon pugs

casula

[spice spire]

Yeah that’s not casual

[keen spruce]

af

not even in title range smh

[true condor]

is this gear are good for sin? i afraid that vers and haste are too high

[spice spire]

Casual is mount farming old content

[keen spruce]

i'll mount your old content if you keep talkin to me like that

[spice spire]

It’s fine, stats don’t matter a ton. Even if you were all vers you’d be fine

[spice spire]

Do it pussy

[keen spruce]

you have 6% haste

that's not high

and all stats are fine

like quake said

[gusty mirage]

yeah but I might be

[keen spruce]

gm king

[coral ibex]

those stats look basically like mine

so its probably fine

[gusty mirage]

I just got home from work

[coral ibex]

stats dont matter

[gusty mirage]

[versed mica]

@balmy condor this is minor, but wowhead guide says to use hybrid M+ build for delves, but the talents shown are different from what the guide says the hybrid build is

[gusty mirage]

stats may not matter, but you matter babe

[versed mica]

If any of that makes sense lmao

[coral ibex]

fuck i love mastery

[keen spruce]

I only have 49%

getting griefed by fancy raid neck

[runic hinge]

Imagine not having 20% haste

[gusty mirage]

ye but you're fancy

so who cares

[runic hinge]

Think about the apm

I get to enjoy

[ripe bobcat]

Mastery is over Agi in my Sim for M+ 😄

[coral ibex]

behold 30 wasted gilded

[keen spruce]

imagine the speeeed

[gusty mirage]

holy, a whole another .2 apm

[coral ibex]

[gusty mirage]

you're ZOOMING

[keen spruce]

I maxed my trailspinner out too

[runic hinge]

Basically playing outlaw

[novel star]

i got this neck on myth track

[keen spruce]

the day before i got the neck

[novel star]

i’m pissed if i get sikran now bro

dumped gilded into it

[coral ibex]

i wasted like 120 gilded going to 626 on a bunch of slots before i joined a mythic guild

[novel star]

[coral ibex]

im so behind

[novel star]

wya

[gusty mirage]

@runic hinge miss u king

[coral ibex]

laugh at this user

[gusty mirage]

you're better than me

[runic hinge]

Miss you more

[novel star]

could be a lot worse yea

[keen spruce]

ew blud has ringworms

[novel star]

i need a ring so bad bro

hero track umbriss pissing me off

[keen spruce]

just

craft a 636

then max your other ring

for free

allegedly

accidentally

[coral ibex]

i have 3 crafts and im maxed on crests

[novel star]

no it’s not a good gain and my other ring is hc ansurek bro

[keen spruce]

oh

queen ring complaining

smh

get em outta here

[novel star]

ye cus i have TWO hero track rings

it’s so ugly

[coral ibex]

i was so sure i wouldn't be getting more than 1 myth piece per week

[keen spruce]

yeah i dumped into 4 crafts cuz i'm only on 3 vaults now

but pugging 4/8 has proved to be rather easy

[gusty mirage]

shmeeps

wanna be best friends

[keen spruce]

we are best friends

[novel star]

[keen spruce]

tf

[gusty mirage]

[keen spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/honeycardi-monkey-gif-22712092

[runic hinge]

[keen spruce]

justlike us

fr fr

i'm always little spoon

[gusty mirage]

just a duck and a monke hand in hand to wonderland

[true condor]

5 targets dummy

looks err

[coral ibex]

what are you trying to model

[west crown]

Envenom looks low

[true condor]

the dmg looks weird? did i focus too many on rupture

[coral ibex]

where is CT

this looks like a cleave build

[true condor]

yea i forget it

[west crown]

Well go again. Come back in 5 mins

[true condor]

embrrassing

i need to go working maybe tonight i will raid to sin

[coral ibex]

do you main some other rogue spec?

[true condor]

yea main outlaw

[coral ibex]

ahh

outlaw is pretty solid rn why swap?

just feeling it?

[true condor]

i want to learn all 3 spec

[coral ibex]

fair

well you only play CT on mythic ovinax so no worries there

[lofty nymph]

Is there currently a meta m+ build?

[coral ibex]

not really, there are lots of options you can take to cater your build to your preferences/group/dungeon

[west crown]

Check wowhead

It’s a more consistent version of the variations that exist rn

[coral ibex]

i like to play this build but there are lots of variations

[true condor]

how should i arrange my rup to keep it 5 targets always?

[lofty nymph]

Yah i currently play 2 vanishes 😄

[coral ibex]

refresh them in pandemic

[west crown]

From stealth. FoK and reapply out of stealth

[coral ibex]

i believe whispyr's plater profile highlights rupture in pandemic

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[coral ibex]

but that does involve fok to 5+ -> rupture -> repeat

for each target

assuming you dont have any bone spike charges

[regal linden]

oh

bad

[wary valley]

you're a day late

[regal linden]

yep

[arctic tusk]

why are people splitting up deathmark on

silken couirt

[runic hinge]

Amp phase probably

[high walrus]

/castsequence reset=5 Deadly Poison, Numbing Poison, Crippling Poison, Amplifying Poison

Why is this randomly stopping at the numbing poison since only today

remember seeing someone ask the same thing a while ago but don't remember what the answer was

[arctic tusk]

isnt the deathmark kind if useless without kb?

[true condor]

may i ask a stupid question like in SoB, i found myself hard to maintain it in no vanish situation, should i always keep it on 5 or just maintain 1 at least when no vanish?

[spice spire]

No

It still duplicated all bleeds and poisons

[spice spire]

It is hard and pending key level not doable.
Just maximize the scent stacks that make sense for you

[runic hinge]

Also if your kb last ticks fall in the amp phase it’s fine but dm duplicating all through it can be good too

[keen spruce]

are you always vanishing for damage in CDs with MA?

[true condor]

ty quake

[keen spruce]

[arctic tusk]

well i know its not literally useless but they arent desyncing it anywhere else in teh fight just putting DM on before he charges

[coral ibex]

yea, or ill hold for some pack with a ton of casters

usually just send with CDs tho

[keen spruce]

I was lookin at that build just to squeeze a little more st out

but like

it's like +2%

[thorn fjord]

🤷‍♂️

[coral ibex]

[keen spruce]

ig the long subterfuge is nice for big silences

that's the only compelling reason i'd take subt

[coral ibex]

i have no trust in pugs to kick and i mostly pug

[keen spruce]

I'm puggin w/o subt

[thorn fjord]

Its def a more qol thing imo

[keen spruce]

if we die we die

[coral ibex]

yea i mostly went with this build bc i could drop sanguine

[keen spruce]

does subt foce you to ambush for the first few seconds like it used to?

force

[thorn fjord]

nah you can ambush later if you want

[keen spruce]

well i mean you can't mutilate

not like you would most of hte time

[thorn fjord]

So you can open with gar and still amb after within window

[keen spruce]

but jw

[coral ibex]

no i think you just need a separate bind

its not like blindside

[keen spruce]

it's not like

[drifting cloud]

tldr: almost all of those logs are from the same guy because china splits and thats how he does it

[coral ibex]

just ur stealth bar

[keen spruce]

a catostrophic loss to just slam ambushes tho

you're just losing poison application

[thorn fjord]

Ambush applies Spatter so theres that

you're not losing that much dmg sending 2-3 ambushes instead of mutilate tbh

[coral ibex]

ive honestly never thought about it

[arctic tusk]

i also was thinking its just sheep so prob is that

[keen spruce]

yeah i wouldn't think it would be a big deal

maybe i'll try it out idk

[thorn fjord]

I have mut on my stealth bar anyway from a while back

[keen spruce]

I do not

[coral ibex]

but im also doing keys multiple levels lower so

[thorn fjord]

So i'll ambush then mut out of habbit

[coral ibex]

[keen spruce]

and i'm not rearranging shit now

[coral ibex]

idk im not exactly an expert

lol

[drifting cloud]

he just uses dm when bosses are stacked before the guy jumps away and the kbs the dmg amp

[coral ibex]

i just like the build

[keen spruce]

ye

[thorn fjord]

Both builds work great.. I havent been able to perform better on either build... BUT for me and my laziness subt allows for alot more wiggle room

With mark application

longer silences

etc

[keen spruce]

yeah actually the mark application

is kind of based

cuz there's some gathers that almost always knock you out of stealth

[coral ibex]

yea i agree

thats an underrated pro of subt

[thorn fjord]

I think its the best argument for it

[coral ibex]

if they ever fix consuming DN with marks, subt will be even better

[arctic tusk]

well i guess if its all of the top parses

[keen spruce]

you've convinced me

[arctic tusk]

guess its valid

[keen spruce]

god if ambushing from stealth consumed DN

[balmy condor]

good thing this is all super legit non-RMT, in game gold services sales found through trade chat right

[spark hornet]

I been mucking about a lot with different builds and at the end of testing I’m just like “yeah that’s cool” I feel like a lot of the permutations are pretty close. But maybe I’m just mid af.

[keen spruce]

i'd be on cloud 9

[thorn fjord]

it would be nice

Im at the point in the tier where i dont care about anything but just killing these stupis bosses

Roster boss kicked our ass in October... We JUST killed brood last night =/

[keen spruce]

I'm playing mini game

[keen spruce]

that's not too far behind

[nocturne jasper]

what are you guys' thoughts on ovinax egg trinket myth track vs shadow binding ritual knife heroic track?

I know the egg sims better but is it a pain in the ass to get it right? like how many stacks of the stationary buff do we want? What does the SIM do

[drifting cloud]

its okay aslong as they dont claim hof spots blizz doesnt care

[keen spruce]

I'd rather eat broken glass than try to min-max egg

[thorn fjord]

We had it 2 weeks ago 😦 but we had 4 members go out of town at different times

[pseudo elm]

okey im still kinda learning sence the new expansion, havent played alot so took me some time. i just want some input on how to improve my dps. i logged on a normal raid today just to compare my sim with my dps. here is the log
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/78130227#difficulty=3
and here is a sim on single target
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gTeeAepTArBy4yNwZ8Bbga

[keen spruce]

but i think you can just ignore it

and it's still quite good

[nocturne jasper]

what is the min-max?

[coral ibex]

be under 20 stacks

of either

[balmy condor]

yeah yeah, the HoF spots are reserved for the account sharing guilds not the RMT guilds

[nocturne jasper]

jesus that sounds like a pain i nthe ass lol

[coral ibex]

yea

[nocturne jasper]

is there a way to SIM it without that min-max?

[thorn fjord]

dont for get the exploiting guilds too

[coral ibex]

hence the sim bait reputation

[keen spruce]

it's still good if you just treat it like a passive trinket.

[coral ibex]

i dont know

[keen spruce]

i don't think there's a sim for intentionally suboptimal stuff generally speaking

kind of goes against the whole point

but it's good

[drifting cloud]

you would basically need to never stand still to grief yourself on the trinket to call it simbait

[worldly sail]

you can use thewarwithin.ovinaxs_mercurial_egg_desired_primary_stacks in custom options

[keen spruce]

ritual knife is fine too but you'd really want one out of vault. and who wants to grind delves every week hoping for that

[nocturne jasper]

yea i think imma use the 636 egg over the 626 knife.

I just dont see any top sims with the ovinax egg over other trinkets surely someone got it out of the vault

[keen spruce]

there's plenty of very good m+ trinkets

rogue isn't high prio for egg

so not many have it

on myth track

[nocturne jasper]

tru

[keen spruce]

some classes really like it

we have lots of good options for trinkets

[coral ibex]

most rogues are either in grim batol prison or have skardyn/transmitter

[arctic tusk]

now the question is this the best and i should copy it

[coral ibex]

and not going for egg

[drifting cloud]

well its probably pretty decent, but are you red side while not doing web? because that matters way more than how you use 1 dm

[keen spruce]

Skardyn + spyglass, crystal, sac, etc

[worldly sail]

like this, expansion gear options can be found https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/ExpansionOptions here

[keen spruce]

all fine

[nocturne jasper]

ive been blessed this patch with trinkets

[arctic tusk]

I am indeed

[drifting cloud]

lucky life then 😛

[coral ibex]

im begging you to go skardyn/crystal

[keen spruce]

[nocturne jasper]

my crystal is only 626

[coral ibex]

[nocturne jasper]

the myth track egg is definitely better

[keen spruce]

probably

[nocturne jasper]

otherwise i'd use ritual knife

[arctic tusk]

ive been sending on pull and mandating the first amp and then sending cds on his shield and we skip the last pizza slices

[keen spruce]

i mean also just try it out

slap on hte egg and full ignore it

[drifting cloud]

dps check on court is basically non existant, just focus on the mechs tbh

you can kill the boss with 5 people dead for 2min

[keen spruce]

see how it feels

[nocturne jasper]

for sure just gotta waste crets on upgrading

[keen spruce]

i mean if you're not hard pushing for CE rn

then it doesn't rly matter

[coral ibex]

damn simming patchwerk is so much faster than dslice xddddddd

[arctic tusk]

ya im aware im not gonna sweat to ohard but fightst been pretty easy so just wondering how i can optimize

[nocturne jasper]

we're trying lol just only 5/8 rn tho

[arctic tusk]

and the number can be pink 😉

[drifting cloud]

well yeah, but again not because of how you send 1 dm, its because you dont have to do web 😛

[arctic tusk]

ya thats true

next question is save cd's for amp or send on pull and use mandate on amp

or get rid of mandate for a passive trinket and just save cds for the amp

[keen spruce]

there's not a lotta standing still on kyveza

idk how fast the stack gain/decay tho

[drifting cloud]

its fast

[keen spruce]

good problem to have ig

too many good trinkets

I'm also a notorious AD spammer

[worldly sail]

if anything i had the issue of not moving enough on kyveza for the trinket

[keen spruce]

I will likely never kill mythic ovinax so this is a problem for other people

[drifting cloud]

werent you in a ce guild before break

just raid again

[drifting cloud]

but yeah keep in mind its easier to optimize when youre that guy and you kill the boss 10 times a week

frozensovient has r2 you could just ask him

directly

wait hes not in the discord anymore

[arctic tusk]

didnt he get kicked

LOL

[drifting cloud]

oh? must have missed that lore

[arctic tusk]

wait maybe i shouldnt slander his name

i THINK

he was

[wild pine]

what are the bis trinkets atm? cz i see a lot of crystal of anubikkaj and not enough spyglasses

obviously skardyn's is a bis

[coral ibex]

there are lots of options

[drifting cloud]

well technically transmitter is bis

but its what you can get on myth track first

is the actual answer

[wild pine]

fair enough ig, what about the boots and waist? just crafted?

[drifting cloud]

because its still "early" in the tier where youre not gonna grief yourself by taking 6 trinkets out of the vault unless you somehow got spoonfed in raid

[coral ibex]

in theory you can answer this specific to your character with a top gear sim

[wild pine]

true but sim also told me the ascendency serum is better than the crystal

so i kinda doubt it now

[drifting cloud]

@balmy condor is frozensoviet banned or

[balmy condor]

yes

[drifting cloud]

tldr?

[balmy condor]

a camel can only hold so many straws

[wild pine]

thats a riddle not a tldr

[balmy condor]

I mean it's soviet

[drifting cloud]

hee yeed his last haw

[balmy condor]

endless misinfo

a billion filter hits

a half billion mutes

[wild pine]

fair enough

[high walrus]

at what keylevel do people start changing up their build for m+? just started playing subterfuge for 12-13 keys but I see some people dropping sudden demise for twist the knife

[wild pine]

i mean at some point sudden demise is obsolute compared to twist the knife isnt it

[balmy condor]

not really

[high walrus]

it also gives 10% bleed damage though on top of the effect

[balmy condor]

it's preference at the end of the day

[high walrus]

just wondering what the thought process is

or would be

[balmy condor]

idk

[wild pine]

the way i think about it is 10% extra bleed damage right?

[balmy condor]

more envenom less bleed I guess

[coral ibex]

that is what i thought

"more envenom, less bleed"

[wild pine]

cz like the other effect wont actually proc 90% of the time

[high walrus]

I guess a dungeon like COT makes more sense to play twist the knife

since it's all garbage single target

[keen spruce]

it's very much just an AoE vs ST question

[thorn fjord]

Whats a filter hit

[coral ibex]

saying a naughty word

[thorn fjord]

oh

[coral ibex]

so naughty its auto-removed

[drifting cloud]

poop

[coral ibex]

ban him

[wild pine]

oh no im scarred for life now

[thorn fjord]

did you know that poop backwards is poop

[wild pine]

thanks ryler

[balmy condor]

he racked up like multiple dozens of hits

[shy creek]

anybody know any decent ansurek rogue tricks

[thorn fjord]

Checks out

[shy creek]

the wrest and shadowstep, tricksing for tank

[drifting cloud]

feels like I havent hit a filter

[shy creek]

etc

[drifting cloud]

in years now

[coral ibex]

what a good chatter

[wild pine]

time to get back on the grind

[keen spruce]

don't try to shadowstep the sucks in intermission with high ping

[balmy condor]

also when you got like 3 final warnings and you manage to skirt past all of them

[shy creek]

KEKW learned that one the hard way

[balmy condor]

eventually you trip over a rock

and it's gg

[coral ibex]

don't shadowstep to one of the 2 intial p2 mobs after the pull and go directly into the beam and get blasted off the back

that's no good

[thorn fjord]

Like Hataro

[shy creek]

incredible. i learned that one last night

on reclear

LOL

[balmy condor]

well

that's a little less of a rock

[thorn fjord]

Hataro was diff tho

[balmy condor]

and more of like running into a boulder

[thorn fjord]

He hit a brick wall

[coral ibex]

hell yea we love procing new knowledge in reclears

[keen spruce]

cliff diving into the dry creekbed

[thorn fjord]

LMAO

[shy creek]

oh i have a question about islekn court

deathmark procs on one of the two bosses

what do u do when u lose the proc on one of them

and vanish isnt up

[keen spruce]

suffer

[worldly sail]

play better next time

[shy creek]

KEKW

[runic hinge]

Lmfao

[worldly sail]

(i lost it a few times on mythic prog)

[keen spruce]

gotta watch those timers

[thorn fjord]

question your life choixes

[keen spruce]

you'll often hit similar timings

when DN will be available

and u just gotta be ready to swap the mark over

[worldly sail]

i fumbled my cooldowns so hard on court kill, completely lost an use of KB by holding it too long

good thing it's not a damage check boss

[keen spruce]

i've only done heroic

kinda fun to juggle marks tho

since that fight on heroic is a snoozer otherwise

[balmy condor]

damage parsing on silken court is like going full sprint for 5 laps at a charity walkathon and then going home

you did a good thing but like

you're still a strange guy

[keen spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/ricky-bobby-will-ferell-if-youre-not-first-you-are-last-gif-3983540

[worldly sail]

damage parsing when first intermission is "HOLD DAMAGE"

[thorn fjord]

Shake and bake baby

[drifting cloud]

well everyone else holds except you obv

[balmy condor]

just play outlaw

[shy creek]

Wait is that real

[worldly sail]

funny seeing people going past you in details when "full damage stop" has been called

[balmy condor]

so you never have to hold

[shy creek]

do u guys hold cds on silken for first dmg amplifier?

[worldly sail]

oh yea the perfect excuse

i can't stop dmg i need cdr

[balmy condor]

yeah exactly

[high walrus]

is there a point to 2 points in subterfuge

or am I missing something

[balmy condor]

I wish I could stop but I'm building cdr for intermission shield

[keen spruce]

longer IW

and other stuff

[worldly sail]

i do but i think it's not a big deal if you send it on pull either

annoying trying to fit sin cds in the damage amp duration

[balmy condor]

I have a solution

A brilliant idea

Imagine like

Just playing outlaw

[worldly sail]

[balmy condor]

So you never have to hold

[shy creek]

[worldly sail]

but then i have to go middle with webs and cant hit boss

brain meltdown

[balmy condor]

We have a solution for that too

Can’t do mechanics, need uptime

[worldly sail]

RL, put me in blue team

[balmy condor]

RL I am here for damage not for strategy, that is your problem

[wild pine]

hey guys can anyone help me take a look at my logs? cz im not sure what im doing wrong and my dps is somewhat subpar

im comparing rotations and stuff to the top rogues and its generally very similar

[coral ibex]

if you post it, they will review

[wild pine]

do i post it to this channel?

[coral ibex]

yea and then someone will make a thread for it, or you make the thread

[wild pine]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/PjBZ8VtLQz1Db2Ad#fight=52&type=damage-done&source=1

[winter grove]

How much of a dpa loss is it to not play death stalker in keys? Am I just trolling playing fate in 10s?

[drifting cloud]

yeah a bit

[coral ibex]

but also if you're like under 625 ilvl you're prob just getting ilvl checked

[wild pine]

yeah im 621

[coral ibex]

oh 621 yea thats a bit tough

[wild pine]

but when i sim i should be doing over 1.1mill

and im doing 907

so its like pretty bad isnt it

[coral ibex]

well you also died with uhhh

45 seconds left in the kill

that's gonna do a number on your parse

[arctic socket]

the collection hungers

[coral ibex]

you did 1.05m dps while alive tho

[wild pine]

i dont rly care about the parsing just theres a number i need to hit and im not

[drifting cloud]

youre also missing like 4 enchants

[severe sparrow]

what are the ilvls on those though

[wild pine]

when i sim without them just as i am basically i get 1.125 mill or so dps

[severe sparrow]

or are we being flexed on with a bunch of champ trinkets

[wild pine]

trinkets? 619

oh not talking to me lol

nvm

[severe sparrow]

o i meant thresh's pic yeah

but also

[thorn fjord]

What is wrong with you

[severe sparrow]

i feel like if i were worried about my dps being subpar i would probably put enchants on

it's not the major issue im sure but

[wild pine]

thats why i havent gotten a good trinket from any fucking dungeon yet

[spark hornet]

Anyone tried the supercharger build in mplus? Thoughts?

[wild pine]

yeah i get that but id like to be doing the best i can without that

like sure enchants are gonna up my dps but am i doing something wrong still?

am i doing something wrong at all anw

[spark hornet]

I just can’t land on a build yet, and I just feel troll when I don’t take iron wire.

[wild pine]

depends on the dungeon rly

[worldly sail]

your opener seems to be out of order, get bleeds up before sending cds

[wild pine]

oh yeah i fucked up on that one lol

[spark hornet]

Forsure

[wild pine]

wrong button lol

[worldly sail]

[wild pine]

meant to press alt Q but pressed alt 1 instead

so i hit my kb kekL

[worldly sail]

KB on alt1

alt gamers

[thorn fjord]

KB is R

[wild pine]

r is kick

[thorn fjord]

Kick is 4 on my naga

[wild pine]

alt 1 alt 2 alt 3 kb DM vanish

[worldly sail]

garrote on alt Q cooking with the binds

[thorn fjord]

stealth gar fok

[wild pine]

yeah ive had that for the longest time so its weird to switch

[wild pine]

stealth is ` for me

[severe sparrow]

kick is 11 on my naga so i can panic hit it just my moving the joint without having to move the thumb lmao

[thorn fjord]

thats mount for me 😛

[wild pine]

cz especially in M+ its easier to spam alt Q than alt 1

[wild pine]

left click is mount 😄

[thorn fjord]

sociopath

[wild pine]

hehehehe

[high walrus]

stealth on f

[wild pine]

nah f is vial

gotta press them quick ya know

so r and f

sooooo anw you guys think im just getting ilvl checked here

[severe sparrow]

i feel like vial aint gonna save me ever no matter how quick i press it

[iron valve]

F is for Feel Better

[thorn fjord]

f is blind

[severe sparrow]

that + being dead really fucked you

[arctic socket]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wGQ7Dttyk4RWnd7pnujpWQ

[high walrus]

cc goes on z, silly

[wild pine]

i dont even have that binded ngl

[arctic socket]

you know

i wasn;t expecting

that

[wild pine]

yeah dying did fuck me over

[marble hemlock]

how much DPS do i lose per cast of feint? asking for a friend

[arctic socket]

crystal over mandate

[arctic socket]

about 350

[wild pine]

but at that point 80% of the group was dead so

[thorn fjord]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ws7HacVfU6AhvQ9o7fVm7U get rekt nerd

[arctic socket]

how is ur sim higher

[wild pine]

631 and its that low? how

[arctic socket]

it's a single target sim

[wild pine]

well yeah but people hitting over 1.6mill

at 631

[thorn fjord]

[thorn fjord]

In ST?

[wild pine]

mhmm

[arctic socket]

people are simming over 1.6m?

Link one

o.o

[quartz relic]

Which trinket would you keep: Ara-Kara 639 / Crystal 626? m+

[wild pine]

specifically sims? not rly no

[thorn fjord]

Prob Ara

[wild pine]

just from what ive seen people do in raids

[thorn fjord]

[arctic socket]

brotha

this is a sim

[thorn fjord]

[arctic socket]

[wild pine]

yeah im new to sims i dont exactlllllyyyyy know how they work

[arctic socket]

alright anyways

@thorn fjord how tf

is ur sims higher lmao?

WAIT

[hollow gazelle]

what is the macro with deathmark for trinket? its kinda wierd the way i have it it doesnt want to go off at same time

[arctic socket]

are u using Internal?

[thorn fjord]

Rings are better

[high walrus]

#showtooltip Deathmark
/use Skardyn's Grace
/cast Deathmark

[thorn fjord]

Oh yeah i am

[arctic socket]

lemme swap

[severe sparrow]

how much longer you think it'd take to run a sim on my actual computer vs raidbots mystery zoomies cloud machines

[arctic socket]

ringworm sims higher

[thorn fjord]

Bro you have so many talent loadouts LMAO

[wild pine]

you wanna see ur pc go up in flames?

[high walrus]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bbSVQw9xEHyhaRmQ1mtcn5

[arctic socket]

i need to delete some

tbh

[high walrus]

at 627

[worldly sail]

easy trick to get more sim dps

[high walrus]

bros got 4 ilvls on me

[severe sparrow]

i need a new gpu cuz 2 of my fans are a lil fucked on it, and the cpu is... a regrettable purchase, so

[wild pine]

what did you buy lmao

[severe sparrow]

but like hey i can turn down the speed and just run it for like 12 hours

i dont even remember some intel idk

it's fine it works

[arctic socket]

how in the mcfuck

are u that close to my sim

lmao

in much worse geare

[high walrus]

it takes aura into account

[arctic socket]

yeah sims are weird

idk

Oh wait

i need to sim and see if radiant is simming highern ow for me