assassination

[grim jay]

Maybe your other gear is just worse than your haste gear

But also

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[balmy condor]

What bug are you talking about?

Vanish + cold blood flips 2 of the previous

That’s intended

[amber brook]

Could be. was comparing a Champ Mast(Main) Crit ring against Heroic Haste(Main) Mast ring

[royal python]

Inevitability says it will flip previous toss, but the second envenom does not. Casting two cold blooded envenoms after deathmark should sustain the edge case state. That does not happen, the bug requires you to vanish after the first cb envenom

N therefore we use MA much earlier AND waste a cb envenom during a window when our crit is high

[balmy condor]

It…. Does?

I’ve been vanishing the second cold blood stack on kyveza prog

It works exactly as it should

[subtle tundra]

wtf

youre sick

[royal python]

Why do we need to vanish second one - based on tooltip should be vanishing Third one

[balmy condor]

For playing fatebound correctly?

[balmy condor]

What?

[subtle tundra]

for playing fatebound

[royal python]

Cause second one should also single flip edge case

[subtle tundra]

Lbound

[balmy condor]

Fatebound is 2% better single target

[subtle tundra]

ok

[royal python]

N then vanish for third for the double flip

[subtle tundra]

man why do we have dogass hero talents

[royal python]

On edge case

[balmy condor]

You press deathmark, you cold blood, you envenom once, it matches, you vanish->envenom, it matches a second time, you used both stacks of cold blood

What third finisher are you talking about

[royal python]

Yes but this order of things is contrary to tooltip information

[subtle tundra]

i guess next week im fatebounding

[balmy condor]

No it isn’t

[subtle tundra]

heheh

[royal python]

Why should we vanish for second , the second also guarantees a previous match

[thin plinth]

love your guides

[royal python]

N vanishing for third will double flip

[balmy condor]

Cause you want to double flip the edge case

What are you on

[royal python]

Ok let me rephrase

[rare isle]

Some new cook forcing us to coinflipspec? I DONT WANT TOO

[balmy condor]

It’s literally the cook from 11.0

[subtle tundra]

nothing new

[balmy condor]

Nothing has changed

It’s just better now

Idk what bro is smoking

[royal python]

DM - gives edge case
Cold blood
Now BASED on tooltip - I should be able to do the following -
Envenom (single flip edge case)
Envenom (single flip previous edge case)
Vanish -
Envenom (double flip edge case -which is technically the last flip)

[balmy condor]

No?

What gives you the impression that you should be able to do that

Deathmark flips

You cold blood

It has 2 stacks, matching the last flip

So you envenom twice

It matches edge case

[arctic tusk]

maintaining both? which basically is perma sending but i get ur poimt

[balmy condor]

Where are getting to 3

[royal lantern]

wait, so you just macro coldblood to KB and call it a day?

[subtle tundra]

yes!

[opaque sigil]

Whispyr, how big is rng gap for fatebound? Like statistically it is 2% better ST on high sim count, but how wide is variance? Like from 15% worse to 20% better with godly rng?

[subtle tundra]

gg see you thursday!

[royal python]

The mis wording in the tooltip is the fact that edge case doesn't count as a previous flip that can be matched

[balmy condor]

Incredibly

[balmy condor]

What? They changed the tooltips in 11.0.5 SPECIFICALLY to reflect that it could match edge case

I don’t understand the confusion

[royal python]

Then why aren't you seeing the point I'm making 😄

[balmy condor]

Because you’re talking nonsense

[subtle tundra]

youre crazy

[balmy condor]

I don’t understand how you are reading these tooltips to see that it’s deathmark -> 2 envenoms

Like

Where is the third envenom

What are you talking about

[royal python]

Second envenom should not require a vanish crutch , you should be able to do two envenoms to flip the edge cases, n then vanish to double flip the edge case on third envenom

[balmy condor]

?????

[royal lantern]

wdym vanish

[balmy condor]

Again

What are you smoking

[royal lantern]

dont you use vanish like you would anyway

aka->vanish for the last 6sec of KB for Madter Assassin

[balmy condor]

Double jeopardy does not match any flips

It just flips 2 coins instead of 1

You need cold blood to match flips

[royal python]

Ok got it

[balmy condor]

The tooltips are crystal fucking clear

[royal python]

Thanks !

[balmy condor]

I don’t get it

[subtle tundra]

whipyr

whip

[balmy condor]

What

[subtle tundra]

atleast this is refreshing!

a fatebound discussion

[pseudo cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-abe-simpson-nope-woops-walk-out-gif-5122624

[balmy condor]

Nothing about this is refreshing im having to explain well written tooltips

And you guys expect me to stay sane

[royal lantern]

fatenbound is:

->macro coldblood togheter with Kingsvane->thats it, no gameplay chdnges, play like you allready do

[balmy condor]

What the fuck

[prisma sundial]

can we go back to the IW convos :/ those are more interesting

[royal lantern]

its 100% passive

[subtle tundra]

hey so i simmed it and im losing 2% dps by going iron wire...

[balmy condor]

How am I supposed to stay sane when I’m struggling to keep up with some delusional ass fucking logic

[subtle tundra]

is it worth

[balmy condor]

Because we can’t read tooltips

Like

[novel star]

open sin channel to see whispyr on the verge again

[balmy condor]

Seriously

[novel star]

music 2 my eyes bro

[subtle tundra]

he is edge casing...

[balmy condor]

Dude I’m losing it

[novel star]

LMFAOO

[subtle tundra]

it is bound by fate

[subtle cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/daddy-chill-gif-23762741

[balmy condor]

I just wasted like 10 minutes of my life

Reading tooltips

Are you fucking for real?

Like it’s just

There

[royal python]

😄

[balmy condor]

I’m telling you how it works

And we just

Can’t read tooltips?

[subtle tundra]

well you double jeopardized yourself

[balmy condor]

No hablo ingles?

Like

[subtle cipher]

Imagine reading on wow

[balmy condor]

What are we fucking doing

[subtle cipher]

Whispyr vc é um gostoso

[balmy condor]

Jesus fucking Christ

[novel star]

whispyrs end is inevitable..

[subtle tundra]

i guess it delivered doom right to your mental

[novel star]

[novel star]

W

[prisma sundial]

whispyr wishes for deaths arrival

[novel star]

W

[royal python]

Sorry for the fateful ending

[balmy condor]

I write guides to explain the game to people and then get pinged on some shit I said 6 hours ago because we can’t read the guides, can’t read the tooltips, and don’t understand how passives work on an expansion system that’s been out for 3 months

Get me out

I’m just a glorified fucking Google

[grim jay]

Except it isnt, but ye

[subtle cipher]

Non paid google btw

Ads free

[subtle tundra]

i fucking wish assa got obliterated
20% dmg nerf

[real granite]

objection

there is porn in google

google > whyspir

[subtle cipher]

Google directs you to porno

[subtle tundra]

or reverted to pre-df so theres no fucking fatebounding no ic no causting no deathstalking

simple spec

[real granite]

oh well, except the feet pics... yeah

[subtle tundra]

no 20 billion million small passives

[balmy condor]

I’m pretty sure I’ve explained how vanish+cb works in like no less than 6 places

Unreal

[subtle cipher]

Delete 3 specs, bring back combat

Class saved

[subtle tundra]

sure
if it means outlaw is deleted!

[rotund oak]

and here i was thinking im the only one pissing u off with stuff

[subtle cipher]

Exactly

[novel star]

@balmy condor Why doesnt she say she loves me sometimes when we say goodnight

[prisma sundial]

take us back to a worse version of fury warrior

[subtle tundra]

whispyr watch shivz videos for entertainment

[subtle cipher]

Outlaw = Aug both mistakes

[rotund oak]

plz no outlaw reference here

enough is enough

[balmy condor]

You’re just kinda weird but you don’t say outrageous nonsense

[grim jay]

Whyspir, the son of Vyhsper and Whipshyr, brother of Vyhspir

[balmy condor]

Like I can live with that

People can be weird

I’m weird

[subtle cipher]

Can u live with me

[novel star]

i wish i could piss off whispyr

[rotund oak]

yes i am weird

[balmy condor]

But just not reading tooltips

[novel star]

how do i piss you off man

[balmy condor]

And then arguing with me

About a basic interaction

That’s gonna make me lose my shit

[royal python]

Darkest night

[grim jay]

Sometimes they just are like that.

If you dont do it you dont love em anymore

[balmy condor]

I can

[rotund oak]

hands off he's mine

[grim jay]

You all are just after his Monster Pfandgeld

[subtle cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/ours-is-ours-territorial-possessive-dominating-clingy-gif-13530042

[subtle tundra]

can i have the conveniently placed chair in the corner of the room

[novel star]

bro

[prisma sundial]

hey cucks are people too man

[rotund oak]

i like the hair

[frigid smelt]

what stats did you guys put on your belt/bracers?

[novel star]

none

[rotund oak]

vers/mast but im weird and im gonna play sub

normally crit mast

[novel star]

i let jesus christ choose the stats

[rotund oak]

but u should sim

[real granite]

arpen and expertise

[novel star]

https://tenor.com/view/deer-interview-it-goes-without-saying-gif-12669775144079688963

[prisma sundial]

i let my mom pick the coolest sounding name

[subtle tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/k-on-chair-spin-gif-25396218

[novel star]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1266209077940457525/1301318860682559558/Tumblr_l_131297895023973.gif

[rotund oak]

never let anyone do anything for u

[prisma sundial]

but but

how am i gonna know what im gonna wear tomorrow

[novel star]

boy oh boy i cant wait to wake up tomorrow and raid in my favourite game world of warcraft

[rotund oak]

STEP UP

[novel star]

anyone in here like raiding

pretty fun!

[verbal vessel]

damn i missed the only fatebound discussion

[subtle tundra]

discussion is a big word

[novel star]

only fatbound discussion for the next month

didn’t mean to say fatbound

but

banger

[subtle tundra]

im going fatebound next week

for reclear

!

[prisma sundial]

tried it today it felt good

[rotund oak]

watched whispyr lowroll on kyveza

was cringe

[novel star]

surely not fatebound ovinax of hell

[rotund oak]

like 2min of constant swapping from tails to head

[subtle tundra]

cant watch my dps regardless
i dont play with details

[verbal vessel]

it do be like that

[subtle tundra]

ofc fatebound on ovinax

[rotund oak]

actual based gigachad

[subtle tundra]

boss is a non issue

we 1 shot it while boosting

[arctic tusk]

so ur saying that outside of cds you can chain pandemic timer 2 stacks consistently and have time inbetween them

[prisma sundial]

why play deathstalker when you can gamble?

[arctic tusk]

from my experience it feels like 1 gcd max of time once in a while

maybe just misplay

[oak tangle]

i need some advice, and i can't find it in the pins, I am looking at buying some new pillows, what are good pillows

[subtle tundra]

a womans chest

[thin plinth]

guys what is this icon ?

[dusty crescent]

My pillow

[subtle tundra]

or a mans

[prisma sundial]

the pillows

[dusty crescent]

Neuron activation

[rotund oak]

the ultimate form

[subtle cipher]

Skardyn

[true estuary]

Neo trying to use the force

[ornate harbor]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[gilded wasp]

Hey guys , im using the master of assassin spec for m+ but im struggling hard in st , outside m'y burst window i struggle so much with energy management if you have some tips

[real granite]

!design

[prisma monolith]

Running out of energy in single target is completely normal, intended design of Assassination. You want to be playing for the highest uptime on Envenom, and not blindly spamming away all your energy. Rapid Injection, Sanguine Blades, and Vicious Venoms all play into this gameplay.

• No, haste will not make this feel noticeably better.
• 10% haste only contributes to around 2 actions per minute
• You should be playing for envenom uptime in single target

[loud tusk]

Read guide on wowhead about "pooling"

[true estuary]

Go in the corner and cry with the rest of us lil bro

[gilded wasp]

Got it, this bot litteraly has an answers for all possible question

!Onepiece

[true estuary]

Energy is a bitch in m+ st

[gilded wasp]

Ok thanks, im gonna read this guide

[subtle tundra]

for pure ST, chest is the worst piece

its the... one piece...

you can change

[balmy condor]

Aight guide updates and im drunk, someone give me a wildcard to throw into the guide for fun

[gilded wasp]

Hahaaa

[subtle tundra]

talk about iron wire

mention crafting?

[balmy condor]

M+ is a fucking joke and so it trying to make a guide for it when the meta is doing the opposite of a guide

I need something crazy

[subtle tundra]

talk about bleed build

its crazy good

time 14 siege with it

[true estuary]

Say that movement speed in stealth matters quite much

[balmy condor]

Already did that

[oak tangle]

write a guide on how to use pins

[subtle tundra]

fuck yea

[balmy condor]

Okay hell yeah this is getting there

[gilded wasp]

Maybe there is a talent to give up to take the one about about energy regen from poisons

[prisma sundial]

talk about how fatebound you get the 3rd envenom and then say jk lol

[subtle tundra]

shroud cooldown reduction talent?

[gilded wasp]

• envenom overlap

[night cipher]

Talk about how assa could be a whole new fun spec if the bleed utility got moved into sustain poison and utility damage

[subtle tundra]

omega utility

if you shroud, wipe and need to get back

[balmy condor]

What if I just talk about how big sanguine is on details without mentioning that it eats energy to do so

[subtle tundra]

youll have it back

[balmy condor]

Okay too far reel it in

[subtle tundra]

sudden demise is really bad in high keys

[balmy condor]

Good, good

I’m going to go to a random YouTube guide, skip 65% of the way through

[verbal vessel]

tricks is better than dr

[balmy condor]

And copy the first thing they say

[oak tangle]

write about the CT tech for funnel

[balmy condor]

Okay but that’s just

Information

Like that’s just correct math

[prisma sundial]

write a section about trickster sin

[subtle tundra]

say if they are energy starved, it means they play wrong

[balmy condor]

Oh okay we’re cooking now

[prisma sundial]

"trickster is good because blah blah... and then you woke up.."

[balmy condor]

Okay what if I like

Write a paragraph about deathstalkers mark

[oak tangle]

ummm, in that case, mention how it's important to maximise dps by utilising cheat death on cd

[subtle tundra]

if you proc tea by mistake youre actually just bad at the game and need to reroll

[balmy condor]

But I replace deathmark with the mark, and the mark with deathmark

[grim jay]

@balmy condor do a breakdown of musclebrahs opener back then and explain how it translates into modern times

[balmy condor]

HELLLLLL YEHA

[subtle tundra]

i miss my exsanguinate

[prisma sundial]

make new acronyms at the top KB = DM for this section and DM = Darkest Night for this section

[balmy condor]

Can’t do acronyms on wowhead, they make us use the spell links

[real granite]

yall are fried 😂

[prisma sundial]

can you link to the wrong spell

[balmy condor]

Sure yolo

[prisma sundial]

lets go

they should let me write some guides

[rotund oak]

thats the dude that ''finds everything alone'' ? 🤣

[grim jay]

Saaame

[prisma sundial]

"reapply garret"

[rotund oak]

bro is so full of himself

[balmy condor]

I like the part where he exsanguinates

ANd then instantly reapplies

[subtle tundra]

me too man... me too

[balmy condor]

And overwrites

[real granite]

brother, for months, everytime you say musclebrah in here, i've though of bicepspump, and i was "wtf is this ppl beefing, muscle is a completly chill person?" im cooked xD

[grim jay]

Iirc he even exsanguinates the target that only has 1 bleed

[subtle cipher]

It's 5 am, I'm still awake, and just heard this

Why....

[grim jay]

Like he didnt even care to fully bleed up the main target

[rotund oak]

yeah but he found out alone

wdym

400k dps

its over

[grim jay]

40

[rotund oak]

whatever on that

😄

[balmy condor]

Okay Nova Scotia looking ass

[royal lantern]

40K DUDE ITS FUCKING OVER

[balmy condor]

Fucking arctic circle

I can see the northern lights from my backyard

[grim jay]

stands up, throws his headset and slams his desk

[subtle cipher]

WHAT

[balmy condor]

What’s it like living in a beautiful place

[prisma sundial]

id take unwalkable cities over beautiful mountaintops anyday 💯🔥

[grim jay]

Imagine and I cant even see light in my future

[subtle tundra]

wait i actually never paid attention to that video
he uses rupture on a target without garrote and then vendetta on it, doesnt use garrote, exsanguinates, garrotes, overrights the exsanguinated rupture

[subtle cipher]

Mountains >>>>> cities

[subtle tundra]

doesnt hit the vendetta target

[rotund oak]

ok as a field geologist ild say u are crazy 😄

[sullen phoenix]

are curent talents on wowhead updated?

[prisma sundial]

clearly youve never listened to the beautiful sound of noise pollution

[subtle tundra]

uses vanish garrotes before pandemic

[subtle cipher]

Bro we have a city here that been grey for a week cuz pollution

[grim jay]

But he participated in tournaments and had high rio

[subtle cipher]

U couldn't see shit

Literally silent hill,lvl

[subtle tundra]

i want my vendetta back

flat dmg increase

no gimmicky my dick doubles

[balmy condor]

Yes but I’m changing them when I sober up

[grim jay]

I wish my dick would double

Imagine peeing without getting close

[subtle cipher]

Date another dude

[rotund oak]

[subtle cipher]

You would have 2 dicks

[prisma sundial]

how?

[subtle tundra]

my dick doubleing would put me still below the average

!

[grim jay]

With a doubled dick

[prisma sundial]

i dont see this in the pins..

[subtle cipher]

If my dick doubled it would look like a Mario mushroom, like a ball on top of 2 balls

[grim jay]

Please pin that you can pee from a further distance if your dick is doubled in length

Important Info

[balmy condor]

Also do y’all think it’s just as crazy as I think it is

[prisma sundial]

if its not in the pins then that means i can ping whispyr about it right?

[balmy condor]

That varas times 14’s

[subtle tundra]

it is

[balmy condor]

With a build I list as a footnote

[subtle tundra]

2 15s honestly

ah my 15 was with stock build

[balmy condor]

And mfers be pinging me at like 4am

Going HEY WHISPYR WHERE SUBTERFUGE IN WOWHEAD BUILD MY 10 FELT BETTER

fuck you

[subtle cipher]

Hey whisp

Where IO

[balmy condor]

True

My bad

[subtle tundra]

bro you know whats crazy

this is how many necrotics ive done

[grim jay]

Whispyr has a 0 missing on his rio profile. The addon just cant keep up

[subtle tundra]

and then you look at other people

[subtle tundra]

and have 4x my number of keys

[subtle cipher]

Pin pls

[subtle tundra]

fucking fiends

[balmy condor]

I can include every build used in the top 300 keys

And some bitch would still ping me about the guide not being updated

[prisma sundial]

discord should make popups for people about to type "is guide updated" where it says guide is updated! and deletes the message

[grim jay]

People also think Tricks is great again because you have it on wowhead

[subtle cipher]

P sure it's possible

[subtle tundra]

whispyr you should talk how going Forced Induction is good cause it gives you a better defensive(recuperator)

[prisma sundial]

if you did that tho youd get 80% less traction in this chat

[subtle cipher]

Tru

And +80% mental health

[prisma sundial]

true

if you get rid of the other 20% being "whats my bis here?" and the popup said sim it! then it would be dead

[subtle tundra]

i wonder...

how bad is going

yea..

no vigor

[subtle cipher]

Legit dead

[subtle tundra]

surely not that bad in mythic le plus

[balmy condor]

Dude like I actually don’t know what I want to do, I spent all of 11.0 saying subterfuge/without a trace is a huge dps loss, and people ran it anyway

Now it’s 11.0.5 and people are running 2 subt/1 lethality over without a trace, even though lethality is just strictly worse than it was, and without a trace is strictly better

[rotund oak]

tell me how u dismiss someone without saying u are dismissive

[balmy condor]

What the fuck

And then it’s like oh wowhead takes iron wire

But I see streamer not taking iron wire

Bro actually fucking doomed

Nothing to do

No matter what I do I’m just getting railed by some 3k io dent brained idiot

That claims it’s wrong

[subtle cipher]

4k io when

[rotund oak]

best quote was zerocool on how he likes playing with talents that sim less

[subtle tundra]

assa needs to go back to multi dot build so people hate the spec in m+

[rotund oak]

laughed so hard

[grim jay]

Maybe you should talk about that and invite an esteemed trustworthy high rio rogue player to talk about it

[balmy condor]

Like I was THIS CLOSE to making without a trace the default hybrid build on wowhead

But now I’m scared to

Because the m+ community is like

So fucking stupid

That they’d look at it and go “it sims less”

[subtle cipher]

Just fuck them bro

[balmy condor]

After saying that sims are shit

[subtle cipher]

Cook your shit

[balmy condor]

For 4 years

[subtle cipher]

Your shit is dope

[prisma sundial]

crash out whipsyr

[subtle tundra]

-.5% in dslice to go out of vigor

10k dps

i think i know what im doing

this is a protest against tea change

[grim jay]

Oh no

Varas will be one of the ladder guys Whispyr will get pings about

[fringe crater]

Is there an overview somewhere with all the commands you can do? (also for specifically now: I want to see the plater profiles suggested by this channel)

[subtle tundra]

nah i wont push enough to be considered for that

[subtle cipher]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[subtle tundra]

hopefully people cap the key level doable and ill be able to catch up by the end of the season

[balmy condor]

Dude I am, I was against without a trace all patch and had to defend myself like the fucking hunger games and now I’m saying it’s good and also have to defend myself like the hunger games this community cannot be real bro

[subtle tundra]

this is the ST sim

so not losing much st either

[balmy condor]

THE DUNGEONS DIDNT FUCKING CHANGE

SUBTERFUGE JUST GOT BETTER

[subtle cipher]

You dropping full lethality for it?

[balmy condor]

AND NOW ITS WORSE

WHAT THE FUCK ARE THESE MPLUSSERS DOINGP

[drifting sundial]

i just tried without a trace, its pretty good I like it!

[grim jay]

Out of curiousity, what would be say is the main point that wat has going for it over 1x leth? Is it the flexibility?

[subtle tundra]

yep thats what ive been saying

flexibility also in m+ you dont use cds exactly on cd

so over the key time

[balmy condor]

Yeah it’s just flexibility for when you need it

[subtle tundra]

you get more than 1 vanish

[balmy condor]

and like

before the change

subt was GIGA shit

cause it did literally 0

so without a trace, while it could've been valuable

was locked behind absolute 0 talents

and now that subterfuge is actually quite good

the flexibility of without a trace has a reason

and it's like

oh no

we're gonna talent out of iron wire

fuck off man

[real granite]

dude

[grim jay]

Yeah thats how it felt for me aswell. Like that whole double vanish garrote thing some people like to praise didnt really look practical to me, it was basically just being able to hold for more comfortable chains and dangerous packs instead of throwing it on CD to not miss out

[real granite]

you need vacations

[subtle cipher]

Talent out of IW on ara and mists = profit

[real granite]

you'r about to snap

[grim jay]

Seymowr is about to get snapped

[subtle cipher]

[subtle tundra]

well with the MA buff + subterfuge you want to vanish the kb dmg

in aoe

[prisma sundial]

we should take turns trading discord accounts with whisypr so we can endure it together <3

[subtle tundra]

so you cant have vanish in case you get chainpull bad

unless you without a trace it

[drifting cloud]

arent they mostly running 1/2 subt

[subtle tundra]

they are dogs

woof woof

[subtle cipher]

Talent wat or get another tank

HMMMMMMMM

[subtle tundra]

buddy youre not the main character

[subtle cipher]

😦

[subtle tundra]

theres 4 other people

[drifting cloud]

sorry varas opinion discarded aquire more io

[subtle cipher]

I'm the champion

Khadghar told me

[grim jay]

He lied

He is like your ingame mom

[subtle cipher]

HE WOULDN'T

[grim jay]

Just telling you stuff to feel better

[prisma sundial]

thats why i put his bitch ass in the wheelchair

[subtle tundra]

i guess so

[prisma sundial]

sorry for spoilers

[subtle cipher]

Dude have all the magic on the world, conjures a wheelchair

Fuckint moron

[subtle tundra]

if i havent done 600 keys by now im just a casual

but not an addict

cause then id have r1 rio

💔

[subtle cipher]

Just be a casual and an addict

[drifting cloud]

do you think 2nd vanish would lose value if youre playing wiht a team just running 15s only so you got whole dungeon kinda mapped out at some point?

[grim jay]

And you would sim 10t 5min patchwerk instead of just dslice

[drifting cloud]

or is it just too flexible

[subtle cipher]

Unless mobs will live a fucning lot yes

[subtle tundra]

hmmm

[prisma sundial]

varas your still runing supercharger?

[real granite]

10t 5 mins... having zul nightmares...

[subtle tundra]

yes

[prisma sundial]

damn your an old head

wake up

[subtle tundra]

no no i play subterfuge

no tea

no vigor

[subtle cipher]

No hope

No dreams

[grim jay]

More pain

[prisma sundial]

that build should be pin worthy tbh

just to bait the M+ poeple

[subtle tundra]

i should do some m+ with it

link dps overall here

and be asked for my build

[subtle cipher]

$10 for someone to drop it on casual discord and say " learn to play it boob "

[grim jay]

Time some 16s

[subtle tundra]

and show it

time some bitches

why dont you

[drifting cloud]

thats harder than a 16

[prisma sundial]

were in the rogue discord bro

[grim jay]

I had a date yesterday and was holding vanish for 4 hours

[subtle tundra]

i have to pug like the rest of the population

[subtle tundra]

wish i could meet a woman

that would make me obsess over her

[subtle cipher]

Why

Dont

[drifting cloud]

oh nice 1 rogue run in top50

were out of the meta boys pack it up

[subtle tundra]

rogue will fall out of favor really fast

0 st in m+

and aug is meta

so you cant afford it

[subtle cipher]

I will just queue a 14 as a sin, and switch to sub mid countdown

Fuck it

[subtle tundra]

and im not even joking

[grim jay]

Wish they would just kill aug

Or make it a proper dps only spec

[subtle tundra]

i did a 15 with an aug

i felt immortal

but we didnt finish it cause we didnt have the timer

cause of low dps

(the other dps was bad, but regardless)

we had a clean 15 arakara and almost ran out if time

i swear to god what the fuck is an ad hominem

just like a strawman

what the fuck are those

[prisma sundial]

you would know if you timed 16s

[balmy condor]

ad hominem is when you're having an argument, and instead of arguing against the stupid shit they're saying, you just call them a dumbfuck

[subtle tundra]

oh yea

ive done some ad hominems

[drifting sundial]

I need to try out more keys with ttk or sd

[subtle tundra]

wont notice a diff

its placebo

you just think its better or worse

[grim jay]

You are a placebo

Dumbfuck

[subtle tundra]

strawman.

fuck you

[balmy condor]

no, ad hominem

[drifting sundial]

i mean im doing about the same damage but yea

[balmy condor]

I mean technically it's ad hominem AND strawman

[grim jay]

Isnt a strawman something thats easily refutable? How could any of us refute us being dumbfucks

[solar wyvern]

Yo we using reddit buzzwords???

Appeal to authority

[balmy condor]

no, strawman is when you argue your point using an entire different thing

[prisma sundial]

strawman is more like you saying you love deathstalker single target and some else saying fatebound is better aoe so you must hate fatebound aoe

[grim jay]

So basically me being smarter than you because I like Erdbeerboden is a strawman?

[balmy condor]

I mean I guess

it's more like I tell you that crimson tempest is really strong and you go "oh so caustic is weak?"

like I didn't say shit about caustic

[subtle tundra]

its the other way. caustic is strong so ct is weak -> drop ct

[balmy condor]

but you brought it up

[grim jay]

Alright I learned something new. We just called that stupid back in the day

[balmy condor]

so now I gotta argue about caustic

even though that wasn't the discussion

[prisma sundial]

now explain the red herring fallacy using the rogue talent tree

[subtle tundra]

🐍

[solar wyvern]

Throw in a what aboutism as well and you've got it perfect

[brisk forge]

Anyone know how to fix DS talent tree to work when you change from fatebound 😩

[balmy condor]

red herring fallacy is literally just how subterfuge/without a trace worked all of last patch

like people complaining about restealths and needing subterfuge/wat for stealths so that they can do damage

when that wasn't the purpose

[grim jay]

@balmy condor https://youtu.be/U5R9dA9EeB8?si=BbsjN9xfgJUCRbgu
You sent me a meme about songs in german, I dont think they take themself serious anymore either

[balmy condor]

and the damage was shit

[grim jay]

[balmy condor]

thisf is a banger though

[grim jay]

[prisma sundial]

a slippery slope fallacy would be whispyr correcting someone over tooltips

[subtle tundra]

so
i want to multi dot
but then you say something about energy??

[hard garnet]

Do the rash adds now count towards parses?

[grim jay]

Idk if its more confusing that you know the song or that you actually like it

[balmy condor]

yeah, slippery slope for my fucking mental

[grim jay]

Yes and no

Because you dont hit them anyways

You shouldnt care

[subtle tundra]

i care!

[balmy condor]

there's no fallacy in me having to re-explain tooltips

[merry bison]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[balmy condor]

it's just stupid

[prisma sundial]

appeal to ignorance

[hard garnet]

But what I’m saying is like caustic is 100% better for logs if the add damage counts?

[balmy condor]

real'

appeal to illiteracy

[grim jay]

Can you re explain the feint tooltip to me and tell me on what exactly it works

[grim jay]

You wont reach them

[balmy condor]

I refuse to read a guide but also the guide is wrong

[grim jay]

Unless they get placed directly below the boss

[royal lantern]

based and real

[hard garnet]

My group do yeah

[subtle tundra]

watch a youtube video then

theres this really knowledgeable guy

[prisma sundial]

classic strawman argument

[balmy condor]

can't, they're all out of date

[royal lantern]

is he r1?

[grim jay]

I mean directly directly, as in basically off the platform. You can try tho if you think it works

[subtle tundra]

shivz made a video recently about subterfuge

you should watch it

[balmy condor]

should I actually

or is this bait

[normal mist]

Do it

You want to

[grim jay]

You need to

[balmy condor]

I understand how subterfuge works

I don't think I'm the target audience

[hard garnet]

Oh right I’ll have to look at logs, it would just be the caustic splatter damage I’m looking at I’m assuming?

[grim jay]

You dont have his insight

[grim jay]

Yes

[prisma sundial]

shivz is the pie and whispyr is the guy floating towards it rn

[subtle tundra]

idk i closed it when he started recommending no iron wire

[hard garnet]

Cheers

[subtle tundra]

💀

[balmy condor]

what

[grim jay]

Why the fuck do you spoiler

We nearly had him

[subtle tundra]

?!?!?!??!

sorry

[normal mist]

I swear to God, no iron wire...

[grim jay]

I ran no IW builds once or twice in dragonflight

[normal mist]

My ancestors were killed so we could have this technology

[grim jay]

Because I hated my group

[prisma sundial]

someone said in the comments that we take subt so we dont lose tea charges by keeping up ruptures on things for energy

[normal mist]

Wild

And stupid

But mainly wild

[grim jay]

Sounds like I should check out the comment section again

[prisma sundial]

yes my energy is super low when im opening from stealth hmmm yess

subt actually gives you more time to apply more ruptures to the pack of 5 mobs thats why we take it

[subtle tundra]

guys do you also put a point in recklessness?

[normal mist]

I do

[grim jay]

I think Whispyr just had a seizure and cant type anymore

[normal mist]

On my zugzug

[balmy condor]

I just don't want to read

[subtle tundra]

im reading the comments

[wet wharf]

Is crit equal to mastery? Looks to me like some of the top loggers go very mastery heavy. I have been going for a lot of crit. Anyone has a good explanation for this? 🙂

[subtle tundra]

and i have brain cancer now

thanks

[normal mist]

M+ or raid?

[subtle tundra]

the value of haste going down

bruh

we never went haste in m+

and attributing the low energy to haste

when it got worse cause of ER removal

thats the only change

[normal mist]

Give me back er

I hate this shit shiv

[subtle tundra]

YES YES YES

[grim jay]

Same

[wet wharf]

Play both

[grim jay]

Except I dont hate it

But ER was great

[normal mist]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[normal mist]

@wet wharf

[grim jay]

@royal lantern fight me

[subtle tundra]

wait he vanished the last 5 seconds of kb in his video, when he plays subterfuge

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[final star]

https://tenor.com/view/virtual-insanity-gif-1489225195979366584

[prisma sundial]

someone called him out in the comments abou tit

[wet wharf]

Ty

[normal mist]

In m+ people usually go CRIT mastery and call it a day

For raid people just sim all the gear they have

[grim jay]

I always thought they just sim

(I do)

[normal mist]

M+ and simming?

In the same sentence??

Smh

[grim jay]

Well you usually either have people simming

[grim jay]

Or people stacking vers

Because OMG. INSANE SURVIVABILITY

[normal mist]

Sim says: go haste

People go:

https://tenor.com/view/reading-sign-cant-stop-me-no-one-can-stop-me-gif-13921932

[grim jay]

@balmy condor they kinda accepted what you were preaching in the last seasons

Just a tad late

Like even the number is the old one

[balmy condor]

yeah now that subterfuge is actually good

they accept that what I said was right

2 months ago

brilliant

[prisma sundial]

pretty sure he quoted you bar for bar

"you think you want it but"

[grim jay]

I atleast think 7% even was the number

[balmy condor]

yes

[grim jay]

But im old

[balmy condor]

7% was the number

[warm vortex]

Both ER and supercharger are like

meh
in my opinion

[prisma sundial]

clearly he doesnt ask if wowhead is up to date enough

[balmy condor]

supercharger bangs depending on the situation

I'm a big fan tbh

I think for a passive version of ER

they couldn't have done better

[real granite]

Er minigame was peak

[balmy condor]

it's really smooth

I agree I miss the minigame

[real granite]

it fitted so good into the spec imo

[balmy condor]

but I love all resource gameplay

so that's not a surprise

[warm vortex]

I might go back to using SBS and doomblane instea of TTK and dsashing scoundrel tbh

[real granite]

no jokes, i dont really like that much the sin gameplay after ER removal

[balmy condor]

the #1 problem I have with the spec right now is that blizzard can't seem to decide what they want to do with energy

like they slow down the spec, they add sanguine, they add vicious venoms, they want energy management to be a thing

and then 1 tier later they burn it to the ground

like is pooling/energy management

supposed to be part of the spec

or not

if it is, make it a part of the spec, make it matter

if it isn't, remove all of it and just make it that

don't edge me

I can't keep simming weird pooling conditions for 0.7%

and then tell people that it's optimal to pool

but it doesn't REALLY mattter

cause spamming isn't much worse

and then like

sanguine under 50%

and rapid injection mattering but also not

like

pick a fucking lane and stick to it

[grim jay]

I honestly dont know if they had that in mind. Like the change to ttk seems like a pretty obvious choice to me, think we even talked about that at some point before they changed it, but I also dont mind having a faster playstyle as an option, but that would require stuff to be a choice node and to be well balanced

[balmy condor]

I think sanguine is like the prime example of slowing down the spec

[grim jay]

Like making sanguine actually worth playing around and have it as a choice would also be a way, ye

[balmy condor]

but then they made 2 hero talents that have nothing to do with energy

or bleeds

and just spam envenom

[jaunty matrix]

blizz has no idea what to do with rogue in general

[balmy condor]

and it's like okay so what's your fucking plan here

[jaunty matrix]

all three specs suck pee pee

copium they rework them in tww

[balmy condor]

there is exactly 1 talent revolving around rupture and it's not even a rupture talent

it's added damage that doesn't interact with anything

????????????

sub spams rupture more than we do

[grim jay]

Wow we went from freely discussing what could be good for the spec to straight shitting on blizz again in just a couple of messages again

[jaunty matrix]

always shit on blizz

[balmy condor]

I mean I'm not shitting on blizz

I think the changes are good

[jaunty matrix]

[balmy condor]

I just think they need to fucking focus

[final star]

assa is really good iteration rn

[balmy condor]

lock it in

[grim jay]

I more so meant birb

[final star]

sub and outlaw

can suck a lemon

[jaunty matrix]

[jaunty matrix]

funny you said that

because playing sub

feels like being forced fed lemons

[grim jay]

Sucking lemons aint that bad

[jaunty matrix]

[balmy condor]

like they gotta sit down and go "this is the vision for the spec for the next 2 expansions, this is the gameplay we want to enforce", and then just do that

[final star]

sub is more fun in weekly keys than assa is

[subtle tundra]

i disagree!

[final star]

but assa is more fun in keys that matter

but it doesn't mean sub is well designed

[subtle tundra]

how is sub overall deeps

in high keys

[final star]

not assa

[balmy condor]

I don't even care if assa is fast or slow, I just want them to have a vision and then stick to the vision

I'd rather they have a plan

[subtle tundra]

assa needs to be put down

[balmy condor]

than anything else

[subtle tundra]

like a rabid dog

[final star]

assa is very very strong, but enh is even stronger which is crazy

I think they bring other classes up, rather than bringing assa down

[grim jay]

I think, considering how many people have different opinions on the topic, they should just make choicenodes for faster and slower playstyles. Maybe the faster one revolving around envenom as it is now and the slower one going for bigger bleeds and with sanguine. I can see that being a good solution

[final star]

maybe they fix nimble flurry so it's actually 50% like it says on the tooltip and not 40%

[jaunty matrix]

that won't work

[balmy condor]

I mean, that's what specs are for

assa doesn't need to be fast

[jaunty matrix]

never worked in the past

never will

[balmy condor]

if you want fast

you have outlaw

that's the whole point

[subtle tundra]

i want assa down so i can quit

[jaunty matrix]

having different gameplay styles within the same spec

[subtle tundra]

now i have a reason to play

[bronze pike]

you can please everyone

and blizzard should stop trying to please everyone with every spec

[jaunty matrix]

but outlaw doesn't scale

[final star]

fast just means 1 button every second, rather than waiting which I think assa can provide

[jaunty matrix]

[final star]

and outlaw is excessive fast

[bronze pike]

scaling is a cope

[final star]

current assassination plays great in aoe

because there is always button

then you get into single target

[subtle tundra]

assa on bosses with adds

is really fun

[jaunty matrix]

assa has big damuz on everything

[final star]

energy economy with adds is good

[bronze pike]

sin for the longest time was kinda gcd locked in st

i dont think the solution is making it outlaw lite

having a global to press every gcd

[jaunty matrix]

but in raid its not shown because 6 out of the 8 bosses are aoe fights

[merry bison]

Why do I need to pool sometimes and wait for my envenom? Is it only because of getting Vile Tincture to 10 stacks?

[grim jay]

While thats true, I think its hard to actually go for poison vs bleed choices in other ways. Bleed builds might need to be inherently slower than poison builds with how the skills work, atleast in my head

[subtle tundra]

well they keep buffing everything poison related

and bleed is just an afterthought

its the maintenance stuff

[grim jay]

Yeah which aint great. I like the unholy dk approach

Where you have minions vs diseases

[final star]

and if they are equatable in output, I'd say most people would play a faster build anyway

because it doesn't require thinking

[subtle tundra]

yea but if you play slower theres more time to think

[bronze pike]

its very hard to balance multiple "builds" in a spec tree like this

which is iroinc since its what its for

[subtle tundra]

and if you get used to the gameplay that time to think can be allocated to something else

[bronze pike]

but its unrealistic to want multiple build options to always be on par with each other

[subtle tundra]

like a 2nd monitor with netflix

[final star]

[grim jay]

Well iirc they do a pretty good Job with it on unholy

[final star]

weekly +14 (Netflix)

[bronze pike]

i mean, do they tho?

[subtle tundra]

ill never feel as good as sylvanas prog with a movie on the 2nd monitor

[bronze pike]

cause ive nebver heard of a disease build on unholy

its always been the burst pet spec

its also a manner of community perception

[subtle tundra]

scripted boss + slow spec => watch movie time

[grim jay]

Its in the guide. The burstier profile is as usual favored tho

[bronze pike]

there you go

burstier profile is better

in raid in general

[grim jay]

Yeah but you will always have a meta or a favored profile, it doesnt mean you dont have a reasonable choice

If you dont do high end stuff

[bronze pike]

i think we lost the plot here

we're talking about viable builds within one spec. qouting unholy when it has one vastly superior build aka a burst build is kinda

[grim jay]

What plot is there in sin, there could be feet pics any second

[grim jay]

Well it isnt vastly superior

[bronze pike]

burst is inheritly better for all encounters

[subtle tundra]

bro you know when the feet pics are coming. youre the one putting them

[bronze pike]

its why outlaw is perma in the shiter for raid

cause no burst sustain spec

unless its a 4 target cleave fight with no incentive to burst

[subtle tundra]

well

sustain damage is very good in m+

look at outlaw

as long as its high

[grim jay]

Thats spec identity. You would still have burst on sin either way, just like unholy inherently has burst no matter which build

Outlaw is just as flat as tswift

[bronze pike]

thats also argueably

[grim jay]

Only if I see you craving one

[subtle tundra]

im chill like that

[bronze pike]

a sustain damage profile is good in keys, but with the amount of casters and the rise of specific mobs and pulls that incentives burst profiles kinda

throws a wrench on that

also we have to define a threshold of content

[subtle tundra]

this dungeon design sucks!

[bronze pike]

this season sucks donkey aids

[drifting cloud]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[bronze pike]

but thats another thing for another day

[subtle tundra]

well

i heard we drop iron wire

so casters shouldnt be a problem

[bronze pike]

idk but ya i dont think sin should be faster

[subtle tundra]

game has plenty of specs to have specs with personality

[marsh raven]

Where did you hear this?

[subtle tundra]

r1 does it

youtuber told me to

[bleak spoke]

he's baiting

[subtle tundra]

fuck my ass

[bleak spoke]

c-can i really?

[subtle tundra]

😋

[worldly sail]

[trim prawn]

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

[hollow warren]

Quick question, when we play TTK do we aim for a 2 stack uptime outside of CDs or do we play it as usual and just try to keep 1 stack up and its just relevant during burst?

[grim jay]

Should be able to keep 2 going for quite some time

[hollow warren]

I am asking for pooling purposes, so I should aim for the 2 stacks?

Wont u run dry then again?

[west crown]

With ttk and dashing scoundrel we are kind of swimming in energy in ST raid spec

It’s not as big of an issue as it usually is

But like always you will eventually have to pool

[hollow warren]

Yeah I mean with the m+ build in single target

Cuz I seem to run dry if I wanna keep up 2 stacks

[west crown]

Still aim for 2 but yeah if you feel like you can’t do 2 do 1

[hollow warren]

Cuz without TTK the rule of thumb is to keep the envenom buff up

And I wasn't sure how to handle it with TTK

[west crown]

With or without. Keep all buffs/dots up

[hollow warren]

Yeah I just wasn't sure if 1 or 2 stacks

[west crown]

I find myself maintaining more on 1 for m+ bosses and just having ttk as a bonus in kingsbane

[hollow warren]

Yeah thats what I thought aswell cuz with 2 it felt like to energy hungry

Thanks for your help 🙂

[grim jay]

I mean with 2 stacks you kinda run dry faster, but you also have more energy regen in that time, because of the doubled effect of dashing scoundrel, other bonuses aside

[molten echo]

Has flensing knives been fixed/removed?

[grim jay]

I usually just pool more frequently with that build

[grim jay]

Yes

[molten echo]

aight

[inland fox]

guys do i always refresh with a max cp rupture

[grim jay]

5+ as with all finishers

[inland fox]

on opener i just need 2 point rup?

[grim jay]

The only time you finish withax Cp on purpose is if you have DN up

[grim jay]

No, 5+ aswell

[inland fox]

i see i thought i was playing it wrong xD

[grim jay]

What made you think that way?

[wispy epoch]

are you happy

😠

iron wire too

wowee

im glad i have keystone weakauras that shout when im targeted now or when aoe is going out

[late tusk]

Hello, got a question about energy management, I find my self with heavy troubles in single target bosses, or some bad chain pulls, whjere i run out of energy / tes (now that area auto). And then i find myself with no energy to do things on cd, or even to keep rupture/garrote alive. How do you handle that

Should i just basics and store energy? I feel that not usefull cause my dmg goes down

But its like if I try to keep the dmg, the dmg is struggle cause of the no energy

[wispy epoch]

yes

you shouldnt be energy starved on any amount of chain pulls though

fan of knives is a very low energy/combo point builder and you should be able to get 3+ ruptures up in no time with it

[keen spruce]

that's just life

in ST

if you drop envenom

in an M+ build

in ST

you can jsut kinda vibe

until you have enough to chain evenoms

(generally, there's a lotta m+ builds)

[late tusk]

Ye im talking about Ms

[keen spruce]

but being starved is very normal

feels bad

but just the life we live

[dusty phoenix]

!lags

!lag

[prisma monolith]

Significant WA lag
Weakauras has identified a source of large lag on some weakauras. This happens on any weakauras using MODELS in their display tab. Deleting the model or turning the affected weakaura to never load should give back a couple of FPS.

You can check for impacted weakauras by running the following script in your in-game chat. If any are affected, their name will show in your chat: lua /run local function _(a)if a.regionType=="model"then return 1 end for i,s in pairs(a.subRegions or{})do if s.type=="submodel"then return 1 end end end for n,a in pairs(WeakAurasSaved.displays)do if _(a)then print(n)end end

[late tusk]

I mean, Im using the tes, and it makes me go down on energy when i go into single targ

[wispy epoch]

sorry what's tes

[late tusk]

Thistle Tea skill

[wispy epoch]

single target like everyone said

you should feel starved

[subtle tundra]

god i want to play bleed build without vigor+tea

[wispy epoch]

only get-around is snapping ruptures on shit that's about to die

[subtle tundra]

thats my goal tonight

[wispy epoch]

like the rock dude in stonevault

i snap a rupture on his stone spawns

[subtle tundra]

time some rocks with troll build

[wispy epoch]

boom 150+ energ6y

[late tusk]

Oh, didnt tho on that

got sense

[wispy epoch]

but ST like first boss on grim batol

[late tusk]

Same on 2º Mist boss with game and fox

[wispy epoch]

you're gonna be starved

i dont fuck with fox tbh, just kidney it and go back to boss

full kidney*

[subtle tundra]

i dont kidney it

dps loss

[wispy epoch]

it is

[subtle tundra]

other classes can deal better

not my problemo

[wispy epoch]

ill fan of knives it

to slow it

but storm bolt can only get every other and only half its duration

HoJ can only get every other

most people somehow break hard CCs for it

[subtle tundra]

we do

cause of spatter

[quasi ledge]

It breaks to spatter 99%