assassination

[grim jay]

I recommend not being obnoxious while being whiny and wrong

[arctic socket]

My guild wanted us to be in single target spec besides our dks

Adds got melted in .6 seconds

[marble hemlock]

Also, try to chill out a bit in the way you talk to/about people.

[real pike]

Bwahah the dh in my guild went full st on Weds cause he didn't realise add damage counted now and parsed grey, so funny

[autumn wren]

I was last night. Was starved and had to pool for KB.

[nimble vector]

fury wars are better for that job but if it works it works i guess

[grim jay]

Are you spaming your abilities?

[nimble vector]

but look at boss damage parses to feel better about yourself 🙂

[halcyon merlin]

i try not to

[real pike]

I think it's pretty obvious I'm playing/tongue in cheek

[frozen jasper]

Do we have a summary somewhere of all the builds that are coming up for m+ right now?

[nimble vector]

what talents are you playing

[marble hemlock]

I think based on the fact somebody literally just told you that you're being obnoxious, it is pretty obvious that your jokes are falling flat.

[grim jay]

In what way? No pooling as per pins still means you wanna chain envenoms

[real pike]

😂😂 sure my bad gs

[grim jay]

But in m+ build you have a lot less energy than in raid build

[nimble vector]

when you say ST do you mean ST in dungeons or raids, because m+ build will have low energy on bosses in dungeons, but you shouldn't be playing this build in raid

[wide atlas]

I "mashed buttons randomly" But not deliverate I actually am paying attention to my dots and I just play like it's a fight game (That's how I feel) So the way I use my cooldowns or tea feels unintentional but it's jsut how I play

[halcyon merlin]

dungeons, sorry

[wide atlas]

And now everything is falling apart

[marble hemlock]

And seeing how we had the exact same conversation on the exact same topic yday, how about you accept the fact that if you auto-proc your tea, that's not an issue of the change being bad, but a simple issue of the player being bad.

[nimble vector]

ah, in that case it's normal that you have energy problems in ST

[halcyon merlin]

fair

[autumn wren]

Low energy in ST raids for me. I think I misunderstood the whole "pooling is dead" thing.

Also, why do the guides often seem to not mention/show Fatebound builds? I don't have TTK spec'd yet. Need to try it tonight.

[halcyon merlin]

i just guess i have to be more careful about spamming buttons

[arctic socket]

I don’t see why people are complaining about the tea change, I took tea off my bars 😂 binded it to shiv and just let the other charge do what it wants too

[marble hemlock]

Fatebound has bigger variance for, at best, the same DPS, so it typically ends up not being a recommended hero talent tree.

[wide atlas]

No you can't call bad somebody to not play 1:1 to a log. You have to be always reacting to the fight. Fight's not gonna react to your "Ugh but now I always do this"

[oblique flare]

The reason is sanguine blades

Also, questionable to drop doomblade and bonespike

[quasi coyote]

well i think its cuz of micro optimisations

[autumn wren]

That's a good idea. Less buttons is good for me!

[grim jay]

Ye as I said above you still wanna chain envenoms, but its nowhere near the raid build

[real pike]

I'm able to play to avoid auto proccing tea, but I just don't want to. And there are occasional times where I'd like to be able to spam without the auto procs, like before rashanen flies away for example. No one is arguing that it's possible to play around, but to some people the change feels bad and that's an ok opinion to have

[arctic socket]

I’m doing mythic content parsing 85+

[halcyon merlin]

roger

[arctic socket]

Doesn’t seem like an issue

[tropic tundra]

if the change was a complete removal of the feature of manual cast, this wouldn't happen

[grim jay]

Well it works for many other people

[tropic tundra]

it's about persoanl preferance

[autumn wren]

I see. I think I like it since it feels like outside of talenting into Cold Blood and macro'ing it to KB, no real change is needed to play it. I'm new and learning, so sorry if my questions are dumb.

[grim jay]

Imagine the shitstorm

Id be on board

[dim yacht]

best thing they coula done imo is only have it auto proc when you have 3 charges

[arctic socket]

The change im sad about is my group losing our warrior

[nimble vector]

I'd prefer if they just made it a choice node to have auto activate / only manual cast but also I do not care enough to complain about it, just learn to play around it

[arctic socket]

So I don’t have battle shout anymore

[tropic tundra]

or just make it a select node just like some shaman stuffs, one is auto one is manual

[real pike]

This is a nice idea actually, haven't seen that before

[tropic tundra]

i think that wouldve been the best move

[marble hemlock]

Wasn't a dumb question at all, no worries. Fatebound is a little easier to play, so it's a good starting point for sure.

[real pike]

Select node would also be nice, or a glyph (do those still exist)

[wide atlas]

I dont know how to play around it and I was having a lot of fun without knowin

[marble hemlock]

DW you'd still have people complaining about "but what if i wanna hold all 3 charges for a DPS window"

[tropic tundra]

glyphs still do exist but they only work as cosmetics

like showing cool effects

[dim yacht]

is there a situation where youd need 3 charges during a dps window?

[marble hemlock]

No, but that wouldn't stop people from whining about change.

[tropic tundra]

idk probably not

[dim yacht]

they really missed the mark though. the fact they saw complaints and changed it from 50 to 30 energy...

its such a great causal change, but its crazy we didnt get an option

[real pike]

Probably some fringe cases - first boss in mists maybe?

[dim yacht]

imo i think its a lot more than 0.1% in m+

[wide atlas]

It's because I allways use my energy to 40 -30 . Then It jsut auto uses where I would use garrote or shiv

[grim jay]

First boss mists doesnt last for 2 charges

[wide atlas]

Where I would not* use garrote or shiv

[real pike]

Bad example but I'm sure there are some

[grim jay]

Seli recommended to change that habit to 80 to someone in the last days and you are fine

[tropic tundra]

the point is, if only it's a very small amount of loss and shouldn't be worried about, why even make that change

[marble hemlock]

What's weird is how upset people are about such a teeny tiny thing that makes up less DPS than having an extra socket or not

[dim yacht]

cant speak for raids cause i dont raid, but in m+ its a pretty big deal

[fringe perch]

change = bad

[dim yacht]

there are absolutely places where i want to have tea up

[tropic tundra]

I'm not upset or angry, just not understanding the decisions

[grim jay]

Well the change isnt the tiny thing, its actually big for casuals

[real pike]

As I've mentioned yesterday and today, it's not all about damage, it's how the class feels to play and enjoyment levels

[tropic tundra]

how do you define casuals

[marble hemlock]

Because there's a hell of a lot of players who ended up not wanting to talent a talent that added yet another button to their bars, or talented into it but forgot to press it, and there's other specs out there that just wanted to use it for the Energy instead of aligning it with their CDs like Assa does. It's a class talent after all.

[normal mist]

I've been feeling really good playing it atm

[tropic tundra]

and do you think you should balance a whole talent tree for the people

[grim jay]

People that just press buttons, dont care too much and dont want to have too many of them

[real pike]

And yeah in m+ when I run out of energy it's usually my sign to apply more bleeds (yes I am bad)

[dim yacht]

i mean thats fair, but theres the really obvious middleground of havign a toggle

where everyone wins

[real pike]

That's great for you, it feels bad for many people however

[grim jay]

Its one talent and if we like it or not, those casuals are the major factor in keeping the game we are playing alive

[normal mist]

I also auto proc my teas

[marble hemlock]

Which would require a lot of extra dev work put into a talent. There's no precedent for an on-use cooldown to have a conditional auto-trigger that you would then also have to create a toggle for whether you want the auto-trigger to happen or not.

[normal mist]

I'm still parsing 90+

[marble hemlock]

For what, 0.05% DPS?

[normal mist]

It doesn't matter

[grim jay]

You can still parse 100 with Auto tea

[tropic tundra]

I mean, they can just not pick up the talent - why you want things to be changed just because someone don't like how it should be played

[grim jay]

Because its an actual feel good talent for energy brother

[whole wing]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tropic tundra]

yeah for actual players

[grim jay]

They pay the same as you, in total pay way more than people that care

[wide atlas]

I'm now thinking I play the spec incorrectly or weird but that's just how I approach to the rotation . Mayb I get used, I'm gonna try doing that of keeping energy above 80 , probably and I hope that's a way to work around.

[tropic tundra]

but you just said its a good change for casuals

[austere ridge]

Is there a recommended spell queue for energy classes?

[marble hemlock]

Idk, there's plenty of people in here who are very obviously playing the spec wrong and end up having their Tea auto-procced. Yet we're listening to them complain and bitch and moan about a 0.1% DPS problem ad nauseam.

[tropic tundra]

in this way, you cannot even start balancing f2p games...

[dim yacht]

there is 0 way its 0.05% in m+, not in high keys. thats just flat out not gonna be true with the way we play in m+. may very well be the case in raids. having a toggle is as simple as having a choice node, one being the old thistle tea, the other being the new

[grim jay]

Bro wtf, casuals need even more energy

[normal mist]

I only know I'm low on energy when my mutilate doesn't go off

[grim jay]

Idc about other games

[normal mist]

LOL

[dim yacht]

its not some tiny optimsation in m+ in high keys, its something that makes a significant difference

[marble hemlock]

How the fuck does anybody's tea auto-proc in M+?

[tropic tundra]

they don't like rupture i guess

[dim yacht]

when you get down to the last mob

[lusty kraken]

single target fight?

[dim yacht]

mini bosses etc

[marble hemlock]

What?

[wide atlas]

Yeah if that happens and I was hard smashing into envenom spam I jsut press tea but sometimes it is already on cooldown now

[wintry pagoda]

Whyd they be concerned about the minority wanting a toggle when theyre just obeying their own rule to what energy they usually drop, thats easily adjustable, just make ur energy say 340 instead of 300 and you wont ever have an issue again?

[grim jay]

Source?

[fleet pagoda]

bosses? wdym?

[dim yacht]

if theres only one mob left alive, and you dont micro manage your energy youre gonna auto proc it

[ionic flame]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[real pike]

We let bleeds drop and don't realise, I'm used to running out of energy telling me I've done that LOL

[marble hemlock]

Explain to me the exact situation you are in in Mythic+ where your tea auto-procced, why it happened, what you hoped to gain from playing in a way that made it proc, and why that is an issue.

[marble hemlock]

Then get better at playing the spec instead of whining about an issue that shouldnt occur in the first place unless you misplay?

[wide atlas]

I mean I can't changed I thoguh perhaps was a setting but just wanted to talk about it, it's taking the way I played the game away from me and that's not pleasent. Just gona learn

[normal mist]

Seli go breath some fresh air

[wintry pagoda]

Wrong way around, 260 instead of 300

[normal mist]

You need it before you explode

[dim yacht]

im not saying im perfect at the game, far from it. if i was, i could just play around it.

[grim jay]

I like the real talk seli

[dim yacht]

its just frustrating to need to, thats all.

[grim jay]

Let him stay

[real pike]

Giving an opinion is not whining my dude, this is a place for discussion and to some people the change feels bad

[marble hemlock]

I'm chill, I just don't understand why people want a change for an issue that only occurs if you play the spec wrong?

[fringe perch]

Orange parser here, I've never seen a vagina. I never let my bleeds drop, I'm the best there is at playing the rogue and if you even think of mentioning playing bad at my class I'll shit my pants and blame you.

[grim jay]

Idk thats like saying its frustrating to play the spec. You could then just play smth different

[marble hemlock]

You gave your opinion. Like, 17 times in the last 24 hours. At some point saying "I don't like this" becomes incessant.

[wide atlas]

Why wouldn't you?

[normal mist]

I'll be honest, my st raid bars don't even have tea binded xD

[tropic tundra]

they don't want a change, they want a rollback cause nobody called for a change

[normal mist]

Since I have it macroed to shiv

[marble hemlock]

Idk, that's like saying "oh yeah I think assa energy is kinda slow" because the player forgot to put on poisons. Kinda pointless to argue whether that energy issue they're encountering is worth discussing, no?

[grim jay]

Casuals did

[tropic tundra]

k im out

[grim jay]

The 95% of people that you think shouldnt have an opinion

[tropic tundra]

have fun with casuals

[nimble vector]

there are times with incoming downtime where you would want to dump energy before disconnecting off the boss but it's such a minor difference it's not worth complaining about

[marble hemlock]

And like, all of this is so incredibly hypothetical. So far no one has managed to bring up an example of auto-triggering tea that wasn't "I played bad", that would make it make sense to dump Energy the way some people apparnetly do

[wide atlas]

I don't see the relation. What I say ifyou seem disgusted for how people adapt to a change and that's no reasonable for me

[dim yacht]

dont have any hard numbers for you, so call it anecdotal. but mists first boss is a great example of something where youd want tea charges. because of the way we play MA in keys, its a huge burst when we pop it all with MA and dots running in aoe, so tea here is a huge deal, which may not be up if youve auto procced at end of pulls on last mob, or on a boss etc.

to be clear, it changes nothing if you play at a perfect level. and of course its easy for me to say when i have no clue how coding works how 'easy' it would be, but it really seems to be as simple as having a choice node at tea, one that is old no auto proc, and the new that does

everyone is happy, nobody loses and we all get what we want

[real pike]

Lmfao

[real pike]

I said energy dumping before rashanen flies away

[tropic tundra]

it's only problematic when you try to understand another human being

that is impossible

[normal mist]

I'll be in the Transmog channel

[grim jay]

You automatically have a tea to your KB due to CD timing, unless you add another coincidence

[royal lantern]

its the internet, nobody here is a human, just funny people on my Phone that make me giggle sometimes

[marble hemlock]

Are people adapting though? People are (rightfully) saying it feels bad. We tell people how they can avoid it from happening. People don't engage, instead continuing to complain about the problem and trying to think of 5 other solutions that would all semi-solve the specific problem they are encountering it, without ever acknowledging "yeah, I just need to ever so slightly change how I play"

[wintry pagoda]

Howd you lose anything unless youre on capped tea charges to begin with

[dim yacht]

generally youre going to slowly get out of sync with tea as you progress

[fresh kelp]

when i ran into the first pack forgetting to put my poisons up

[dim yacht]

when things come off cd between pulls etc

[grim jay]

Thats strong coming from someone that just disregards 95%+ of the community for your personal idea

[real pike]

Wdym it wastes a tea charge and I might cap on energy while running

[fleet pagoda]

tbh I don't want to lose tea because I'm at 50% energy, have kb up in 4 seconds, garrote and rupture timing out in 3s each, and need to feint a big damage event somewhere in that time frame. sure it's less than trivial in damage but I still prefer agency on when I'd use it. people just don't like it, I don't see why that's a problem

[marble hemlock]

Why would you ever auto-proc tea at the end of a previous pull?

[wintry pagoda]

Howd it waste a tea charge if ur not going to overcap charges

[final stratus]

Why shouldn't you be able to dump all energy before first boss in mists when you have to afk and wait for boss to spawn so you regain energy anyway?

[marble hemlock]

And how does it happen so often you not only do it once, but often enough to lose all charges.

[wide atlas]

I insist I'm just gonna learn. But I was Ok with my dps just playing without knowing certain stuff bc I did it by inertia. Perhpas, and probably I learn to paly by inertia to the auto-tea.

[wintry pagoda]

And if you cap energy while running, youd do so whether youd use tea or not??

[grim jay]

Maybe, honestly dont know, because I do watch my energy. Using high end as an example like you previously did, you should be able to handle that in the highest content

[real pike]

Because I could use that at another part of the fight where it's actually useful?

[dim yacht]

because im a lazy dumb dumb player who lacks skill and spammed too much energy into the mini boss on dawnbreaker that shoots orbs and i wanna kill him before that last orb explodes that killed the shaman in my last run.

if your point is "dont be bad" then yeah, you have a point, dont be bad

[final stratus]

What? There's a big difference between regenerating 200 vs 300 energy?

[dim yacht]

agreed. im just a lazy player who likes to find what works best for me. there is zero doubt in my mind that im capable of doing so

[marble hemlock]

I mean, okay, do that. That's 1 tea charge gone. What happened to the others?

[dim yacht]

doesnt mean i cant voice my opinion on it

[final stratus]

I'm not saying you'd run out of charges, but you're still 1 charge down for no reason. That charge of tea was 100% wasted, even if you still have 2 more stacks up?

[wintry pagoda]

If youd hold tea while not wasting a charge and just leave boss on 0 energy, you do not lose anything

[lusty kraken]

so guys outside of cooldowns how should I manage my energy? Do I just send envenoms or do I do the thing where I envenom at the last second?

[grim jay]

And honestly there is nothing wrong with that. For me personally the change wasnt needed either, but I do accept that there are people that got quite some QoL through it and I just adapt without minding it too much

[real pike]

Clip it at the last second (or any time within pandemic)

[royal lantern]

mate, 100% minmaxed usage of tea and "lol auto proc" on everything is 0,18%

[marble hemlock]

I'd argue that charge was wasted not because of auto-proc tea, but because you somehow felt the need to dump that last 30 Energy as if it makes any difference whatsoever.

If you KNOW you're gonna proc tea there, and you KNOW that you would rather want those charges elsewhere, isn't that the player making a bad decision?

[royal lantern]

its not a big deal

[dim yacht]

i think between this and previous, this is better overall for most players. id just like to have the option

[wide atlas]

aSo you're taking the way away form me as a player so yea I'm unhappy. Besides I learn today how to play around it or not

[grim jay]

No I think it was on everything besides the opener

[final stratus]

I'm not arguing auto tea is a dps loss or gain, it's just an annoying change.

[lusty kraken]

is that the only logic? is there a situation where I'm overflowing with energy and I need to envenom more often (asking for single target)

[final stratus]

That's fair

[wide atlas]

I mean the change not you actually , (taking away)

[pseudo cosmos]

Not the tea convo again

[real pike]

Yeah prority is not to cap on energy

[marble hemlock]

Like, do I like the auto-tea change? Not particular.y But like, it's such a tiny thing to think about, just add a tick to your energy bar at 80 Energy and think "i don't press button until its over that bar" and the problem is entirely solved.

[real granite]

3 days of this argument, and ppl still dont differentate beetwen gamefeel and performance rules, ppl is not complaining about it being hard or whatever, they complain of it not having a good gamefeel

[marble hemlock]

Just as one example on how to deal with it.

[real pike]

So if Garotte and Rupture are both not in pandemic and you're going to cap then send envenom earlier

[royal lantern]

like, i agree that the change is bad and that they should change Something (making a choice node imo)

but its not a big issue overall and the way some people act, is as if you wasted a deathmark into nothing

[lusty kraken]

is there an energy cap where I should start doing the envenom at the last second thing?

[real pike]

More the other way round, I send envenom at around 200-220 energy in case of a blindside proc

[tired gull]

nothing like parsing in the 60s overall, but 98 ilvl

[real granite]

knowing how to prevent it does not change the fact that having to do it does not feel right, in some way

[marble hemlock]

Assa always was a spec where you did not want to mash buttons and end up completely out of energy. Pooling/playing for uptime was always a core aspect of the spec. So, what has changed, exactly, that makes it feel worse?

[fleet pagoda]

I think there's a bigger issue of people saying "I don't like this" and pushback being "well you're wrong"

[wide atlas]

I don't KNOW. I remeber around what gcds/abilitys I can use before running out each time, so I don't look much to my bars jsut to the healthbars of the enemies

nameplates

[thorny spire]

I am sorry but i am a bit new, what does pandemic refers to?

[real pike]

We essentially have 30 less energy

[subtle tundra]

Artificially reducing max energy feels bad

[grim jay]

Considering it doesnt make any real difference for the feeling if you dont go below 30 or cant do anything at 0 with how the spec plays currently, thats not really much of a point either

[lusty kraken]

so do you just try to keep yourself at around 200 energy for the next kingsbane window?

[slim pebble]

The great tea debate is back?

[wide atlas]

I started playing assa after dornogal was live. I mained since that day I'm not playing nothing else now

[sudden sigil]

Question what is the m+ go to build for a new assa rogue :>?
The one listed on Wowhead and ignoring MA?

[grim jay]

It never left

[marble hemlock]

So, previously you never pressed buttons below 50 Energy because, well, they wouldn't go off. That's now 80 Energy. Is that such a massive gameplay feel change that it feels bad?

[real pike]

Around 150 I guess but you want to use a tea during kingsbane so it's not a huge deal, better to keep envenom up

[grim jay]

It just gets worse

[lusty kraken]

I see, this has been very helpful, thank you!

[royal lantern]

cus most of the time "i dont like this" also has huge wall of texts that explain why it makes the spec unplayable and results in healer dmg

and the answer is just "thats not the case"

[subtle tundra]

Because I have to actively calculate if I'm above the cutoff

That's annoying

[wintry pagoda]

If you extend a bleed in its pandemic window, you get the remaining duration + new duration , if you refresh outside of pandemic window, you just get new duration

[marble hemlock]

Or rather, is it such a major gameplay feel change it is worth getting into online arguments about on a daily basis, instead of just accepting it, learning how to make this teeny tiny change to gameplay to adjust for it, and end up gaining a tiny amount of DPS as a result?

[subtle tundra]

Uhh can I mut rupture here now or do I proc tea

[real pike]

Just to be clear you technically want to tea during shiv, but you shiv during kingsbane so it's kind of the same thing

And no probs dude

[royal lantern]

can copy wowhead, stuff is still getting cooked

[shy axle]

anything new about the discussion yesterday regarding an m+ specc with ttk?

[royal lantern]

what i just said

[lusty kraken]

about the shiv tea macro, if you have 2 shiv charges you still send tea on the first shiv?

[real granite]

for me personally, i cannot dump energy when pull is dying, i have to wait others finish it. Is it relevant dps wise? Not a fuck. Does it feel right? Nah, it feels ugly, thats my personal complain, tea auto proquing mid fights is not my personal complain. But seeing that the majority of the community dislikes it, there have to be something in it.

[thorny spire]

and where do I see those pandemic windows?

[nimble vector]

from a gameplay perspective, the removal of choice is almost always bad

[marble hemlock]

You don't wanna dump energy when the pull is dying either way.

[grim jay]

People cry more about the slightest tea change than warriors do about getting basically deleted

[wide atlas]

As far as I understand works for garrote and rupture. But In some st fights I used wow analyzer on rupture and it said "You should not pandemic on rupture" And pointed as dps loss. So now I jsut let it run out

[slim pebble]

Why are we complaining about something that’s like a .18 loss to just ignore

[proper hare]

15% haste pretty goodie right

[arctic shale]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[marble hemlock]

Even if Tea wasnt auto-proccing, you still wouldn't wanna dump energy at the end of a pull.

[real pike]

Yeah but ideally when you won't cap on energy from it

[royal lantern]

stats dont matter

[slim pebble]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[grim jay]

Because it seems to feel bad, dont ask me

[sudden sigil]

oh i see!

[grim jay]

[lusty kraken]

guess I'll have to make the macro, thanks again man

[fleet pagoda]

yeah, because the complaint isn't about damage. people just don't like playing with this change. i don't think we need to reverse engineer the exact reason for it, they just don't like it

[slim pebble]

I just hit my buttons and blast. What is going on lol

[marble hemlock]

https://i.imgur.com/HyXKrcT.jpeg

There, problem solved.

[real pike]

Online arguments are one of my main procrastination methods from work I love a good debatey watey

[nimble vector]

why would you ever not dump energy if you are going to regen back before the next pull anyway, especially in m+ when you get flooded with energy in packs

[real pike]

You can just do the macro yeah makes negligible difference

[marble hemlock]

Because with 300 max energy you don't get back up to full energy even if your last GCD is a rupture for the VW Energy refund, and you want to be >150 Energy asap on the next packs opener for maximum SB value.

[wide atlas]

Or do both. I can learn or not and also talk about it

[wintry pagoda]

Uhm usually if you were to use any class weakaura theyve a certain glowing effect for when stuff is in its pandemic window, think it was like 1/3rd of the base duration or any number of that kind

[wide atlas]

And the rogue discord is for this. Not bad to discuss this is what I mean

[real granite]

So if im able to proc a few consecutives dn and get energy on ruptures refund im supposed not to...? I should keep autoing?

[feral crag]

Do we want any specific stat thresholds? I replaced a bunch of gear bringing me to 7% haste, and it feels kind of bad

[thorny spire]

so you want to extend the pandemic?

[marble hemlock]

I don't mind discussion on the topic. What I mind is people having this discussion on a daily basis, as if the result or arguments are gonna change from one day to the next. And some people have been having this same discussion multiple times a day, multiple days in a row. Doesn't that seem a bit weird?

[real pike]

Different abilities have different costs though so this is a bit of a wonky band aid

[fleet pagoda]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[west jolt]

I'm curious - do you sin experts agree with SIMC saying/using Fan of Knives even on 2 targets?

[final stratus]

Well the most expensive one is 50 tho so

[real pike]

You could just ignore it and reply to something else

[wide atlas]

I don't enter this discord often. I haven't since patch went live

[final stratus]

Pretty sure that's correct because of Thrown Precision and Momentum of Despair?

[royal lantern]

iirc its FoK on 3targets

Crimson Tempest is at 2targets if you have it skilled

[real pike]

Yes but then if we need to rupture we have to work out if we can, for example. And sometimes we want to be hitting things exactly on GCD for timings

[wide atlas]

Before I joined to see if yu were celebrating the feint change

[marble hemlock]

Okay and? With Garrote its 75, with Rupture itd be 55. There's no realistic situation in which you would have to press those abilities IMMEDIATELY instead of waiting for your Energy to go up a little further.

[tropic tundra]

feint good

[royal lantern]

Changes nothing at all, idk why people make a big deal out of it

[real pike]

This is absolutely wonderful, I'm loving it. Although I sometimes forget and wait a second after hitting feint when I could be using abilities lmao

[marble hemlock]

That's why I said all of these issues are just compelte hypotheticals that do not occur in actual gameplay.

[wide atlas]

Yes garrote is 1cp you need to darkes night

And you rather use gcd on reapply garrote insted of mutilate and the garrote

[marble hemlock]

So, how many times have you found yourself sub 75 Energy with Darkest night up at exactly 6 CP?

[languid frigate]

After our highest Prio Crafted pieces. What should our 5th slot be?

[marble hemlock]

Not to mention that this situation, even if it occurs, is entirely preventable by just pooling ever so slightly before the last finisher that consumed the last mark in the first place.

[marble hemlock]

Whatever you dont already have at high ilvl or expect to get at high ilvl

[real pike]

Not with perfect play, agreed. But there are dozens of us that play imperfectly and to us it feels bad when these situations occur ig

[knotty rose]

This tea shiv macro works for you guys? I've checked it few times and it just shiv's target but doesn't ever drink tea... Checked formatting and stuff but can't get it to work 😐

[marble hemlock]

Just like it feels bad to other people who don't play the spec optimally and their issue was bad usage or no usage of Tea at all -> which is what the change is for.

[languid frigate]

You think Rings would be a good shout? As we require 2

[wide atlas]

Agree I cant explain how dumb I felt when this was anounced

I thought somehow game was reading my mind

[marble hemlock]

It depends a lot on what kind of content you do. I.e. technically Chest/Helmet/Legs would be the best pieces since they have the highest item budget, but that also means they're pieces you would really rather want a 639 item on instead of the max crafted 636 ilvl.

[winged sun]

Whats a better pick long term?

[fringe perch]

probably hunter or enhance sham @winged sun

[marble hemlock]

Not 100% sure what gameplay situation you're describing. But yes, on single-target, Assa is supposed to just not press buttons for a second or two during gameplay.

[pseudo cosmos]

Print screen

[languid frigate]

Purely M+

[marble hemlock]

So your only Myth track source is Vault?

[fresh kelp]

tier helm so u can come home when the time is right

[languid frigate]

Correct yeah

[wide atlas]

But what I mean is no thing I want to have to workaorund.
Is doable ?yes. Will have to
But I should not have to add things to my way to do something in a none case, or scneario.And when that occurs, that does happen i'm unhappy

[magic fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/good-one-nice-one-looks-great-beautiful-picture-came-out-nice-gif-17797969

[wide atlas]

And that's ok. to be unhappy

[coral ibex]

learning to use snipping tool

[magic fossil]

idk mate, nice cam

[marble hemlock]

I think with the 5th spark youd just fill the big ticket slots. If you get one from Vault next week, you aint feeling too bad about it.

[marble hemlock]

Every patch changes how we play a spec because some priorities or conditions change though

[winged sun]

Not me

My brother using my pc for a min irl

For vault only

[marble hemlock]

Previous patches we also watched our Energy because we wanted to stay above or below certain Energy thresholds too

[coral ibex]

no, you should have to adapt to how the game changes each patch because that's how this game works

or just play a diff spec

when the live service game involves changes

[wide atlas]

Yes I know-. It happens and I have to But I didn't like it. And I'm all good to talk aobut it here

[marble hemlock]

But again, I don't really like auto-use tea either. But it's not a big deal, and people's level of frustration over it is disproportionate to how impactful it actually is, both to the gameplay feel and the actual performance.

[real granite]

A dying pull and trying to squeeze dn proqs on dying mobs at the last seconds. Also, sometimes, wanting to dump all the energy as the next pull could be in far enougth time to cap.

[grim jay]

Yeah but they cant change it no matter how much they complain over weeks. Its just there, its not hard to play around it and subjectively doesnt change the feel by much even. There are good reasons for the change. If it makes the spec unenjoyable to a point where you dedicate hours to complaining, maybe its time to change the spec

[real pike]

Completely agree on performance but you can't really comment on how impactful something is to the gameplay feel of other people - that's subjective and up to them

[spice spire]

I’d rather be angry

Not gonna read that essay

[marble hemlock]

Gameplay feel isnt an entirely opinion based matter though. If people play the spec wrong then their gameplay feel is objectively not going to be what it's supposed to be, would you agree with that?

Somebody not applying poisons and complaining about lack of Energy is objectively wrong in their complaint about Gameplay feel.

[real pike]

How many people do you think play the spec completely perfectly?

[wide atlas]

I guess it's more the fact you are receiving a lot of msgs from differet people but I do think it should have this turn on/off option bc it's a quaility of life change.
Not fit my style at all

[stray adder]

Auto-tea is a failed attempt at dumbing down the class

Dont @ me

[marble hemlock]

0

[spice spire]

@stray adder

[grim jay]

Except that its not a failed attempt and it in actuality worked pretty well for the target audience

[pale socket]

auto tea raises the floor and the ceiling at the same time. good for the class.

[stray adder]

I said dont @ me

[spice spire]

Yeah and I did

[wide atlas]

But exactly, I feel allowed to talk about how I feel about the spec here. Not only reapeat unanimously what is 99 way

[spice spire]

Problem

[spice spire]

Yeah you can

Absolutely

[real granite]

what i feel ironic about this is, i think that actually are those casuals they think they made the change for, whose dislike it the most, AND actually give importance to it. I can feel what i said end pulls, but its whatever for me. On the other side lot of ppl here dislike the complaints of most casual players. Also calling them sometimes, being uncapable of managing the class. Its kinda ironic ngl

[jovial inlet]

On mythic broodtwister are you rupturing the bigger adds or just crimson tempest and caustic spatter

[marble hemlock]

Yeah, and that's totally fine. But the problem arises when the same issue is being brought up over and over again, especially if its by the same people, because it not only drown out other discussions, but it comes across less and less as "providing feedback" and more and more about "just coming here to complain".

[fleet pagoda]

sure. I can see the benefit to the change. but I see no reason to belittle people for disliking it, too

[real pike]

I would honestly much rather just have 270 energy now than this, I don't like to think I'm a bad player and I'm managing to avoid auto proccing tea for the most part but it really doesn't feel good to me. I'm sure I'll get used to it but removal of control from people that have been used to having the control for years is a choice

[marble hemlock]

It is, and it's a good example of how people tend to get disproportionally upset about things that really don't matter as much as they think they do.

[pearl garnet]

does anyone know hat casual addict runs talent wise after patch?

[marble hemlock]

And you'd think a bunch of people telling them "stop hyperfixating on it" is gonna help them better understand what they should really pay attention to to become better players or enjoy the spec more gameplay-feel wise

[pale socket]

depends on how they go down in your group. if they last more than, what, 8 seconds? it's worth

[real pike]

Without a trace but that's preference over performance

[stray adder]

Tea change = more cognitive overload

[grim jay]

I do, because its not worth anyones time to complain about such a minor issue for hours. Also kinda exhausting for the chat as a whole

[spice spire]

Tea change is less cognitive overload wdym

There’s like

[coral ibex]

how is it more cognitive overload, you macro it to shiv and never think about it again

[spice spire]

500000000000000 things you can do to improve 0.18%

[stray adder]

Gotta do maths now

[fleet pagoda]

macro tea to tea

[spice spire]

Paying attention to your energy ain’t it

[real granite]

most, or some, dont want to be better players, just want to play whichever feels best

[marble hemlock]

Idk, if anybody thinks that getting that last Envenom on that mob and making you auto-proc tea is somehow gonna make or break a dungeon and thus has any importance whatsoever, doesn't understand what actually matters when wanting to time keys.

I know that sounds toxic, but that's my opinion on the matter.

[spice spire]

[grim jay]

But it feels worse to not get the 0.18%

[spice spire]

He cooking

[grim jay]

[knotty rose]

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

[real pike]

Sometimes I even rupture when they last less than 8 seconds for the quick energy boost cause you know my tea is always on cooldown hue

[marble hemlock]

People tend to focus and spend hours on the most inane shit that makes maybe 1% of a difference, instead of spending a tenth of the time on something that actually matters and makes them better players.

[coral ibex]

nah bro the only difference between me and casualaddict is tea usage

[spice spire]

If you can tell the difference between a 1.56m pull and a 1.53m pull without details you can shit on my dick and call me sally

[marble hemlock]

It's like people running 20 M+ on a new season, instead of running 19 and spending that last 20-30minutes watching a boss video instead to not fuck up as much during prog.

[wide atlas]

It is a a class discord you should be Ok with people talk bout how they feel bout the class.
No one is here to complain, bc evry thing said here is appropiate for this place. You are wrong to think come to complain too much for a change of the class is not ok.
I think it is. If you have 10 ppl on a building and two complain all the time because of a leech that's a problem for the building and If there's a place to talk about it you can talk all you want bc that is how "important " for you is the leech. Thats how I evaluate something being brought to the table

[slim pebble]

If you don’t have energy in m+ and you’re sucking tea you’re really playing the class wrong

[grim jay]

You just dont understand the feels

[spice spire]

I mean boss fights

[coral ibex]

disagree, many people are here only to complain about tea

[fleet pagoda]

the difference is .03m now pull that thing out

[spice spire]

You absolutely starve

[spice spire]

[wide atlas]

If a change happens and a lot of ppl tlaks bout it or for a long time it is An important change or a that brings conversation-

[real granite]

Again, its not about performace, no one spoke about breaking the key

[slim pebble]

The way he was talking it was aoe pulls, maybe I misunderstood

[grim jay]

Just because something is polarising doesnt mean its important

[spice spire]

I think they mean in m+ at large - but definitely in boss fights I miss the tea

[grim jay]

Thats not how that works

[spice spire]

Control

But

I cba man

[coral ibex]

i bet there's like 50 people who have joined this discord since tuesday and their first if not only message is something to the effect of YO AUTO TEA SUCKS RIGHT???

[marble hemlock]

no one is here to complain
I have to disagree with you on that. Some people are returning to this channel daily to complain about the exact same thing. That's no longer about sharing opinions or providing feedback. That's people using the public discord as their personal venting-room or blog. That's not what this Discord is.

[real pike]

Yeah I mean there were people in here complaining about the fact the spec has gotten faster even though that brought bigger numbers with it so that just shows how these things aren't about performance

[royal lantern]

watching half your raidteam not knowing ANY fight mechanics, but can tell you on the excat % how good every single trinket and tier item is for them

every single time

[wide atlas]

I didn't read this. That's a good example of wanting to darkest night a mob and need to get energy in one second or you loose a 2m gcd.

[coral ibex]

watching them get caught by rashanan swirlies while arguing who is optimal PI

[stray adder]

Pick a side bud

[marble hemlock]

You dont lose Darkest Night if you don't envenom at that point. It still has its duration, it's just ever so slightly lower than if you got that last Envenom out.

[wide atlas]

And you said there were no cases, there a LOT.
None is ultra destructive to the spec but they are all part of(What I think) are fun parts of the spec rotation

[grim jay]

Quake is always swinging

He wants to be on the winning team

[dim otter]

why are people playing subterfuge?

[wide atlas]

No bro. You hit darkest night mob dies, you have darkest night two consecutive times to the next mob

[marble hemlock]

Master Assassin

[pale socket]

MA

[stray adder]

0 consistency

[marble hemlock]

What?

[real pike]

In m+ for iron wire as well as MA

[spice spire]

I can agree that I dislike something but think that the complaints and statements of “it’s a failed attempt, or no one asked for this” is wrong.
Accessibility has long been an issue with people getting to rogue and the removal of three buttons is nice - does it mean I enjoy them? Not necessarily but I can appreciate the steps to make rogue more available to the common and casual player

[dim otter]

why do you need it though if you have improved garrot

[spice spire]

Like I’ve said since the beginning I’m not a tea change

Fan

[slim pebble]

Me in this chat lately

[spice spire]

But I cba wailing about it

[marble hemlock]

It extends the duration of MA

[dim otter]

wait what

[spice spire]

Me every day

[marble hemlock]

https://i.imgur.com/NXFSGnj.jpeg

This applies to MA, among other things

[blazing slate]

why does my envenom do less dmg compared to other rogues if we have same amount of casts and i have slightly more envenom uptime?

[marble hemlock]

MA lasts 6sec baseline, with 2 points Subterfuge thats 12 seconds instead.

[coral ibex]

12 seconds

[real pike]

Not playing around tea well enough

[spice spire]

Is there a gear difference

[slim pebble]

I haven’t even been able to play a key with the new talents cause it’s been decline city

[fresh kelp]

are you using hero tree properly?

[wide atlas]

Ok. You hae darkest night and mob is 2% hp.

You need the energy to the envenom and you are 1gcd away of mob passing away (Tea good!)

If you don't use the enveneom there. You are just gonna cast one darkest night(Onthe next mob right after dies to reapply)
BUT if you have tea and you use envenom before first dies. You use darkest night you have and use a second afterwards

[rose wharf]

So with this patch nothing really changed except we don't press Echoing anymore gameplay wise

[blazing slate]

im 628 other rogue 630

[rose wharf]

?

[wide atlas]

Thats 2m dmg on one global cooldown and its hella fun to play round it

[marble hemlock]

That is not how Darkest Night works.

[dim otter]

how good is the MA spec and how come we didnt use MA before?

[wide atlas]

And you tell me is only .02 change

WHAT¡?

[blazing slate]

i use envenom at 5 combo points or more or when darkest night up at full combo points?

[fleet pagoda]

potential node changes, and not really much incentive to pool with those changes. for m+ subterfuge+MA+iron wire is 🙂

[wide atlas]

at ful

[wide atlas]

🤯 Then i'm playing a different spec

[real pike]

Good and because imp garotte is so bad I think

[fresh kelp]

you do understand sniping a 2M envenom to kill a dotted target when mobs are still alive is useless damage right

[marble hemlock]

If you have Darkest Night and the mob is at 2% HP, you either

• Cast Envenom, reapply Deathstalkers Mark with it, and once the mob dies you gain Darkest Night at max duration
• Do not cast Envenom, and you keep Darkest Night at the current duration.

Either way, you get 1 Darkest Night for the next pack

[wide atlas]

Yeah

[warm vortex]

Whats the best assa build atm btw

Is it the sub one

or not w sub

[wide atlas]

But only in first scenario you cast ALSO a darkest night before the next pack

[wide atlas]

Why is wasted damage?

[icy acorn]

because its dead in 2 seconds anyway

[spice spire]

I mean could be 1s saved

If you have it

[marble hemlock]

And if that comes at the cost of proccing your Tea, that aint worth it. Frankly, even if it isn't, its rarely worth it. You'd rather cast Rupture instead to get a big Energy refund when the mob dies

[fleet pagoda]

can sim for yourself, both are good.

[spice spire]

No harm in using eh

[fresh kelp]

from what you said, it sounded like other mobs were still alive in the pack

[unkempt warren]

how is fatebound doing in keys?

[warm vortex]

Alr, just playing a mix

[wide atlas]

I'm dying here

[fresh kelp]

in which case just pool and send the DN envenom once it dies

[wide atlas]

How can you not be wanting to cast the most darkest nights possible

who cares if it dies?

What's going on

[marble hemlock]

If it comes at the cost of you using your Tea up

it's not worth it, obviously

If it was worth it, no one would complain about the auto tea proc now, would they?

[wide atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-white-persian-guardian-why-gif-4787462613393501584

[gray horizon]

this server has gone to shit this patch holy guacamole

[marble hemlock]

And, as somebody else said, that extra 2mil Damage on that last surviving mob aint ever gonna be the difference between timing or not timing the dungeon anyway.

[spice spire]

Oh no

Seli

Don’t do this

[unkempt warren]

is fatebound gonna be good in 8 keys where eveything is dying fast anyway?

[marble hemlock]

Idk, I've seen enough people jump into a fresh pack with barely any Energy and then not get SB value on the first couple of ticks of their Stealth Garrotes/Ruptures. That's more damage than that last Envenom.

[gray horizon]

try it and find out

[fleet pagoda]

sure. certainly won't be bad

[real granite]

At this point, the tea discussion is like

[main blaze]

Im not clicking that

[nova aspen]

i was timing 12's with it pre-11.0.5

[icy acorn]

ah yes, cartoon-cute-hamster-running-rolling-wheel_7017...

my favourite

[nova aspen]

but now im enjoying mark

[wide atlas]

If you are run on energy you will also be using a tea xd.
So idk how is not worth,

[real granite]

yea dunno why it uploaded like that lol

[icy acorn]

xd

[blazing slate]

you are supposed to envenom at 5 combo points unless you have darkest night up right?

[spice spire]

I never see this.
Because I’m not an ape.

[wide atlas]

I also don't know about using rupture to max energy when dies

[real granite]

discord being weird

[unkempt warren]

just finding atm that im not getting the most out of deathstalker procs with my target dying before i even get my bleeds up

[spice spire]

Yes

[stray adder]

it's not a supported format for discord

.avif wtf is that

[marble hemlock]

5 or more, yes

[wide atlas]

That's something I gotta learn, and now I want to

But this is exactly the conversation you want to be having jtbc

[real granite]

random google img what do i know

[fleet pagoda]

play whatever you prefer. if things are dying so fast you think it's making DS moot then the key's obviously not getting bricked

[unkempt warren]

is there a updated tallent build to follow for the new patch? ill give it a try

[marble hemlock]

The only reason to Envenom with DN up when the pack is about to die, is because you're worried your DN might run out before the start of the next pack. Even if that's the case, just use an ambush to apply mark instead. It's really not that challenging.

The way to time m+ is to not get obsessed over the tiniest DPS minmax, but to not die and pay attention to mechanics.

[royal lantern]

stuff still getting cooked

wowhead is updated, but possible it changes in the next few days/weeks

[unkempt warren]

yeah i dont see anyting for fatebound on wowhead? only for raid

[wide atlas]

I do that only on grim batol 2nd last. Talking about dying to not time a key is off topic now

[rose wharf]

The Talent Build on Wowhead is the one without MA and Subterfuge though

[unkempt warren]

m+ builds are all DS

[marble hemlock]

Psure the m+ build for Assa for Fatebound is gonna look exactly the same as the one for DS, just with Fatebound Hero Talents

[wide atlas]

Talk to me why Is better (not time but minmax) to use rupture at last gcd of mob

[unkempt warren]

fair

[stray adder]

you guys have a lot of pent up anger, would recommend to buy the brutosaur mount

[pseudo cosmos]

[nova aspen]

pretty sure the fatebound m+ talent tree is identical to deathstalker, except u take cold blood

[marble hemlock]

Because you want to start the next pack above 150 Energy to immediately get Sanguine Blades value

[rose wharf]

But Whysps pin about the shiv changes sound kinda personal

[gray horizon]

cuz you get energy

and energy is good

[marble hemlock]

And if you dump all your energy on the previous pack, itll take you 10+ seconds to passively generate enough Energy to get to 150+ before you open on the next pack

[gray horizon]

just send like a 1-2 cp rupture

[peak spindle]

For mythic Rash, I noticed the first set of webs are dropping about 1/2 way through KB, do you delay your opener or just pray you don't get one of the initial webs?

[real granite]

i tanked some of that anger early morning, gotta be the euw hours

[wide atlas]

I dindn't knew that

[stray adder]

yeah using rupture on a dying pack is free energy

[coral ibex]

nah bro you just pray

[marble hemlock]

https://i.imgur.com/qBHx4ss.jpeg

[midnight mist]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[wide atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/oops-gif-23382655

[coral ibex]

just high roll the rng on your clear pull

never get selected

[wide atlas]

I'm gonna start doing that

[stray adder]

anyone else sometimes rupture an orb from the affix during boss fights to top energy?

[real granite]

btw, speaking about this, is there a sheet/table or where could i know the relation in rupt time and energy refund? just out of curio

[marble hemlock]

For what its worth, I think its immensely important. A lot of people hyperfixate on DPS optimizations, even if they only make up less than a single % of DPS, whether it's for Raid and Mythic+.

But the biggest damage gain for many many people doesn't come from doing some hyperminmax opener or gameplay stuff, but to just learn the boss timings better or paying better attention in M+ to not dying.

[coral ibex]

they dont live long enough for it to be worth the energy/cp

[marble hemlock]

Whatever Energy Rupture wouldve refunded if it ran full duration through Venomous Wounds, is the amount of Energy you get.

So if your Rupture has 10 ticks left before expiring, that'd be 80 Energy.

[bronze flicker]

so for the new MA build with no sbs i gotta commit my vanishes for last 6 sec of DM/KB right ?

[real granite]

ouh, much more than i though

[wide atlas]

Thanks. I will learn to play to rupture

[stray adder]

I was wondering that, thought it was 5head but maybe not 😂

[fresh kelp]

it's probably good to send the DN envenom if it will make the difference between getting a restealth while your tank is chaining or not

[wide atlas]

WHO NEEDS TEA jk I miss tea

[gray horizon]

You always want rupture up anyways, just keep it on targets

[real granite]

another reason to not drop sd, i knew it

[marble hemlock]

you get that restealth either way

[coral ibex]

mobs need to live for 7s for spending cp on rupture to be worth

[real pike]

Send KB and if you get one of the initial webs bully the other webees away from the space in melee range to boss

[marble hemlock]

If your tank is 20y away jumping into a next pack, while youre still far away from him, and the mobs, hitting another mob. you do not get put into combat.

[stray adder]

I guess you're right, your boy been starving lately idk why lol

[marble hemlock]

There's a few exceptions to that, but they're rare. Bosses being one of them.

[wide atlas]

Hos there a tea emoji but no a rupture

[fresh kelp]

sometimes in keys like siege a 2% mob survives to make it into the next pack and give you social aggro, but yes I agree you normally can get the re anyway

[marble hemlock]

And sometimes there's trash mobs that like putting you into global combat, but i havent played enough m+ this season to know which ones they are

[main blaze]

lol social aggro

[marble hemlock]

you dont get proxy aggro unless youre in those mobs

[pale socket]

"this guy SUCKS get em!"

[marble hemlock]

thats why a prot warrior can jump into a pack and get 5 spell reflects off at once, because all mobs cast on him, hes the only one in combat with them

[fresh kelp]

wait really could've sworn when i've tried standing outside waiting for it to die i get put in combat anyway

[round harbor]

most people that play this game are turbo ass lmao. they will sit on here crying about a 3% nerf or w/e and be grey parsing

[real pike]

Nah I've 100% had times where I haven't managed to kill the last mob before it wanders into the next pack and once it dies I cannot restealth, no matter how far away I am

[wide atlas]

I use restealth with shadowmeld of night elves

[marble hemlock]

thered a few mobs that global aggro the entire party, but its super rare. bosses tend to pull you into combat 1-2sec after getting pulled, but for trash it happens maybe on 2-3 mobs in all 8 seasonal dungeons combined

[marble hemlock]

if the mob youre hitting is close to the new pack, then yes, the dot ticks from that mob will be proxy-aggroing the new pack

but that range is like 10y

[real pike]

It happens a fair amount to me, everyone switches to the newly pulled pack and the last mob of the previous pack wanders in 😦

[marble hemlock]

if that happens, you should be in the new pack too the same as the tank

and use the bleeds that are still ticking from the old pack to already have energy and scent stacks to immediately multidot the new one

[coral ibex]

yea its more of a gain to just keep attacking the new pack

[fresh kelp]

I will have to test this because i thought even on law with no dots if the mob makes it into the new pack I stay in combat

[marble hemlock]

thats called chainpulling and its something assa really loves. much more than it loves restealths.

[wide atlas]

I created this toon just for the aesthetic and ended up be a nice choice at hero talents to start with for the class/spec.
Then when I though feint is the better defensive imagine if it's off gcd. The same week they posted the change on ptr. So I was thinking rogue was some sort of forces of universe to comunicate with me

[marble hemlock]

i honestly wouldnt be able to say whether its due to damage ticking on the mob or just the mob being in combat with you. either way, mob shouldnt wander by itself into a new pack

[wide atlas]

But the I got benched of my raid

[marble hemlock]

certainly not at low HP

[wide atlas]

😦

[round harbor]

[marble hemlock]

if a single 2% HP mob runs into a newly pulled pack, you did smth wrong

[real pike]

Yes I am aware but the problem is when the tank isn't chaining properly and instead waits until there's one mob left alive with 5-10% hp to jump to the next pack. That's not chainpulling, it's trolling lol

[round harbor]

thank you for story

[wide atlas]

Is still developing

[marble hemlock]

i.e. you could just kidney shot it so it stops running and you get the restealth

that kidney would gfive you more value than any envenom could

[fresh kelp]

i'm not saying it's hugely common, but sometimes my tank does jump into a new pack with one mob at low hp (in particular the siege raiders that can't be stunned)

[coral ibex]

crippling poison should have it slowed too

[marble hemlock]

just run after him and dot. like, tanks chainpulling in a way that really benefits us is kinda rare

but its also not a big deal

especially in a dungeon like siege where 80% of the trash have jackshit for HP

[real pike]

Sometimes I do this and still can't quite finish it off in time and then because I'm energy dumping trying to kill the mob on time I get a tea auto proc and things just go from bad to worse 😉

[wide atlas]

I will contnue my history when I learn to get energy from rupture

[marble hemlock]

that sopunds like the mob is pretty high HP still when it gets chained. youre better off following the tank and dotting up the new mobs without a restealth

wont proc any tea that way either 😉

[fresh kelp]

ye it's all good, the original point was just that that might be a rare edge case where u might want to send your DN envenom to get the re, but it won't matter a huge deal either way

[hollow stone]

honestly if a tank ever pulls "properly" for sin, they are a savant (this basically never happens)

[real pike]

Yeah sometimes my judgement is off on how long the mob will take to die for sure, but sometimes the mob is at that perfect middle ground of me not knowing which way to go

[hollow stone]

even when Im in disc telling a friend exactly what to do

[real pike]

Skill issue

[wide atlas]

Thanks for the guide / s

[marble hemlock]

i can count the tanks that did that on one hand

[hollow stone]

you have to adapt to them

it is what it is

[marble hemlock]

fem and naowh were the only 2 tanks who i ever felt truly understood what chainpulling well means

[spring sigil]

Am i right in thinking during my KB window i want to save vanish and garote for the last 5 seconds?

[marble hemlock]

yes, you wanna vanish during the last 6sec of KB again

[real pike]

Vanish for the last 6 seconds on the DM windows

Garotte you just find of refresh naturally

In pandemic

[coral ibex]

you want to vanish to have MA cover as much of your kingsbane as possible, or as soon as garrote is in pandemic, whichever happens first

(if you play subt/ma)

[marble hemlock]

the one thing that most tanks seem to forget is that the moment all the caster mobs are dead, you can chain

[real pike]

As much of the last 6 seconds of KB as possible, as it ramps*

[hollow stone]

yea that's a big one

[crimson vector]

Anyone else feel super duper oom on st dungeon encounters where you can’t farm ruptures on small mobs

[marble hemlock]

that lesson alone will help many tanks

[subtle tundra]

guys i got .3% dps in dslice do i dm whispyr to add it

[marble hemlock]

5 mobs, 2 are casters? focus those, once dead, you can pull next pack

the rest will die sooner or later

[real pike]

Yep that's just the way she goes bud

[fleet pagoda]

tanks that chain pull when there's multiple wizards alive

[somber sparrow]

multiple times i ambushed queen from stealth yesterday and deathstalker didn't get applied. even though ambush seemed to work. it may be related to that range thing, because queen was still walking over to the tanks when i ambushed. hmm.

[marble hemlock]

ill DM you instructions on how to do it

[hollow stone]

my GUESS (just a guess) is that your auto attack is being triggered and popping you out before you Ambush

[real pike]

If he has a dedicated ambush bind and the GCD triggers then the ambush was successful

[coral ibex]

playing a TTK build in m+ should help that experience

[hollow stone]

yea, idk for sure, that's just my guess

[amber brook]

Does anyone have the stealth macro for Mut or ambush?

[coral ibex]

gotta be this

dont right click ansurek

[mighty vine]

run fatebound and shut brain off

[pseudo cosmos]

For sure this ^

The right click queen not fatebound

[fleet pagoda]

to what end? what are you trying to do? those buttons are pretty much interchangable

[coral ibex]

or you are just instantly experiencing the mark falling off bug

which could be

[amber brook]

Just so i can spam Mut to go stealth

[coral ibex]

huh?

[pseudo cosmos]

Wat

[subtle tundra]

you put mutilate on the bar

[chilly shadow]

wa

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[real granite]

this is, by all means, not clear

[pale socket]

I got you — love that shit in pvp with sub to stealth->shadowstrike for the port while I'm chasing someone down:

#showtooltip
/dismount
/cast [stance:0, combat] Backstab
/cast [stance:1] Shadowstrike
/cast [stance:2] Shadowstrike
/cast [nocombat] !Stealth

or for mut:

#showtooltip
/dismount
/cast [stance:0, combat] Mutilate
/cast [stance:1] Ambush
/cast [stance:2] Ambush
/cast [nocombat] !Stealth

[subtle tundra]

oh

i get it

idk why youd need that

but i get it

[pale socket]

it feels so smooth

[subtle tundra]

i have multiple fingers

i can press 2 buttons at the same time

[pale socket]

xD same but still, feels buttery

[slim pebble]

The subt build feels way different in m+

[subtle tundra]

it really doesnt

its placebo

[fleet pagoda]

isn't that what placebo is

[subtle tundra]

i hate placebo

its fake

i hate it

[fleet pagoda]

let's rally around gazebo instead

[pseudo cosmos]

Sass>sub

[real granite]

aside from being able to reposition/place the mark not in the first global, its the same

[subtle tundra]

if you mean the fact that it doesnt have SBS, you can just talent sbs

[amber brook]

Works, Thanks!

[odd light]

does anyone have momentum of despair tracker

[slim pebble]

This is what im running

[subtle tundra]

yea it legit should be the same gameplay

idk what its so different

[slim pebble]

My AOE is quite a bit lower

[subtle tundra]

ok? so how does that feel different

[somber hill]

bleed dmg -10%

[subtle tundra]

that has nothing to do with your initial statement 😭

[somber sparrow]

i should test if activating ambush out of range activates auto-attacking, because i never right click anything

[final star]

I think sanguine is more damage than ttk too

overall

[fleet pagoda]

IC uptime might be bait for people trying to spread more bleeds than necessary

[final star]

losing sanguine AND sudden demise is a killer

[real granite]

well, you dropped sb and sd to ttk

[fleet pagoda]

instead of just sending envenoms

[subtle tundra]

yea just cause you can bleed doesnt mean you have to

[slim pebble]

If numbers dont go brrrrt it feels worse dog

[fleet pagoda]

it's a pretty legit little trap for somebody who's not looking at their damage distribution

[subtle tundra]

close details dog

[pastel onyx]

[final star]

12s of MA

[visual lake]

I'm assuming the Subterfuge/Master assassin stuff wont work as well for FB cause you need to lose Cold Blood?

[slow snow]

Does 2/2 subt really give you 12 sec of MA?

[somber sparrow]

mmm i think I figured out why deathstalker's mark sometimes doesn't apply on queen. If the boss is pulled and you wait more than 2 seconds from the pull to start the fight (like to get in position behind the boss so it doesn't parry an attack), she radiates damage every 2 seconds and pulls people out of stealth

[real granite]

but then, why didnt you realize that you didnt actually ambushed?

paged stealth bar right

[shadow spindle]

if i land at 6cp and i need 7 for darkest night can i use garrote even if the dot has still a long duration or i should send mutilate

[somber sparrow]

it must happen almost the same time that i hit ambush, but my stealth bar looks awfully close to my regular bar because of abilities during shadowdance

back when we did that

[odd light]

can anyone share Momentum of despair tracker wa

[coral ibex]

really really

[slow snow]

So vanish 2 sec into KB then eh? (12 sec remaining)

[hollow stone]

3 but yes

or wait

is itt 14?

u rite

[young cedar]

She parries ambush?

[coral ibex]

14s kb

[young cedar]

I just ambush at pull from the front

[slow snow]

Damn ok now im excited to try that build out

[coral ibex]

ooooo yo that could also be why the mark isn't applied

parry

holy fuck i love parry

[obtuse ruin]

@subtle tundra what build have you been running now?

[turbid canopy]

is it just me or

is assa insanely squishy

[wispy aspen]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[turbid canopy]

in kinda new to assa this season

[nimble vector]

I'm pretty sure if your ambush gets parried the mark is still applied, I could be wrong though

[young cedar]

Well

Cloak got nerfed?

Or bugged.

Not sure which

[sullen hearth]

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

[past panther]

rogue is just squishy compared to a lot of other classes

[hollow stone]

play more vers in keys

[young cedar]

But cloak now doesn’t cleanse things

[turbid canopy]

haha yea i played lock mostly

lock immortal

[final star]

it doesn't unfortunately

[young cedar]

And poison mechanics still tick through it

[final star]

Found that out on broodtwister so 100%

[grim jay]

dont you feel the crit?

[subtle tundra]

i feel the dick

[grim jay]

not really a lot

[subtle tundra]

i was swapping things every key or two

[grim jay]

understandable

[nimble vector]

unfortunate, gapped by worm gg

[grim jay]

fixed

and not cloak

the talent

[hollow stone]

tbf, Brood has like a 350 degree parry box I stg

[final star]

sucks me dry

[safe barn]

kieron what are you doing here buddy

[final star]

I'm on that freak shit

[young cedar]

So I can cleanse poison nova off now?

[safe barn]

i was expecting you in sub channel

[hollow stone]

for an armless worm, it's really good at parrying

[safe barn]

stop with the sin nonsense

[young cedar]

[final star]

😏

[young cedar]

I’ll have to test it

New PB was 19% last night for heroic

She angwee

[coral ibex]

did well enough in my trial that i got accepted to a mythic raiding guild

[subtle tundra]

anyone else has a bug when pressing W,A, or D character starts stutter stepping?

and moves slow

[coral ibex]

[subtle tundra]

started happening this patch

[nimble vector]

[coral ibex]

i dont think so

[real granite]

time to get a new hamster wheel for the pc

[waxen thunder]

So I see most rogues playing tricks over blackjack, I feel like the DR would be more impactful than additional threat, but wanted to check myself as Im not a huge M+er, mostly just my weekly 10s and bail. Am I mistaken in that the threat help is more helpful than the DR on dangerous packs?

[coral ibex]

depends

[dawn heath]

gotta love nw

[nimble vector]

if your group is coordinated and things aren't going off then the DR doesn't do anything

[subtle tundra]

i also got disconnected

[nimble vector]

ye I am not clicking that

[subtle tundra]

nvm it didnt send correctly

[coral ibex]

the DR still reduces melee swings which is significant

[lusty kraken]

you trust tanks to hold aggro?

[coral ibex]

if your tanks aren't really eating shit much, give them extra threat

[nimble vector]

I trust my tanks can not die to melee swings

[subtle tundra]

https://imgur.com/a/ETqNiKd

it even disconnected me

[waxen thunder]

Fair enough, I mostly pug 10s because I have no real interest in pushing, but tbh that makes sense and kicks dont go off that much

Appreciate the insight all

[subtle tundra]

like character just starts slowing down

[hardy dagger]

It really is the war within huh

[nimble vector]

does this happen a lot

[subtle tundra]

yes

not the disconnect

but in m+

raid

everywhere

[safe barn]

jesus christ so much is happening in this gif

[tacit otter]

keyboard is 100% fine?

[subtle tundra]

yes

[hardy dagger]

Man Dying to the echo blades yesterday sent me

[subtle tundra]

character movement slows

[nimble vector]

do you have some cursed secondary bind for RP walking or something

[subtle tundra]

buddy

its from the patch

[real granite]

he is dcing brother

[subtle tundra]

not the dc

[real granite]

its not the keyboard XD

[subtle tundra]

the dc is not the problem

[fleet pagoda]

default UI elements though

[fresh kelp]

Snap threat without tricks can be a bit scary on stuff like GB last boss adds if you send a DN envenom with spatter right as they spawn before your tank can establish aggro, but 30% dr after blind is pretty good too

[subtle tundra]

https://imgur.com/a/9Ufhlry

i cant walk without slowing down

[real granite]

wait a moment, dont diverge the attention from you using zercool weak auras

[oblique plover]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[fleet pagoda]

does that happen without Shadowrunner too? wonder if it's a problem with that. like is it only happening in stealth?

[subtle tundra]

?

[safe barn]

have you trying verifying the files through the launcher?

[fresh kelp]

are you sure your tww isn’t secretly running on vanilla

[subtle tundra]

its not in stealth only

[fleet pagoda]

[subtle tundra]

it happens dragon riding too

[nimble vector]

that sounds like a fresh install angle

[safe barn]

yep

[subtle tundra]

imma check an alt

[hollow pier]

Didn't notice the walking, too fixated on the Minecraft jumping

[subtle tundra]

it did its job

[amber blaze]

ill play double vanish

whatever you say

[subtle tundra]

preach

do that

[slim pebble]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[random fossil]

Is there a weakaura to move a couple yards every time someone is using the ah from my mount

[subtle tundra]

https://imgur.com/a/IRTWXZN

he looks so goofy

https://imgur.com/a/HYCP9ss

they see me rollin

they hatin

they disconnect

[real granite]

strange, but wouldnt be sure if thats client side anyway, check your files

[bronze flicker]

around what overall should an assa rogue with 626ilvl do in a 12 arakara is 1,8 low ?

[fringe surge]

do you have any pooling wa?

[subtle tundra]

its good could be more

[bronze flicker]

no i dont coroiu if u asked me

[fringe surge]

any of you here

[real granite]

depends on tank, pulls and key speed, and wipes, if, etc... its pretty decent tho

[bronze flicker]

@acroma i was more thinking if im way of and doing something fucked up or not

@acroma feels like the thistle tea auto use kinda fuck me on bosses cause i dont pay to much attention to it

[real granite]

impossible to know without a log

[real granite]

its not relevant dps wise

[bronze flicker]

it just feel bad though

😄

[real granite]

macro tea to shiv and let it do its job

[bronze flicker]

yea but i mean i just pump on trash before and then it use charges with no benefit at all

cause i forgett it useing auto

[cursive adder]

Guys how are u handling mass aoe pulls? Garrote and Rupture on Carnage and then funnel Envenoms into spatter target while maintaining tempest?

[real granite]

i can pass you a energy bar wa, it turns blue when you cannot use mutilate, and red when you cannot do fok, as a crouch

[bronze flicker]

yes please

[molten flicker]

couch?

[real granite]

crutch*

[real granite]

https://pastebin.com/UsSfESvA

[bronze flicker]

not found it says

[cerulean compass]

Do we still have any info of how to run in M+ ? I saw 2 builds so I'm asking 🙂

[real granite]

??? ill dm the aura

[molten flicker]

yes we still have info

[bronze flicker]

ye sent my overall from the dungeon

[rotund oak]

bruh,is this even the sin channel

where is everyone

[stray adder]

fotm yapp channel

[pseudo cosmos]

[old sequoia]

any idea why i dont consume marks sometimes with 5+ CPs?

[rotund oak]

works fine for me

[stray adder]

wasnt that hotfixed yesterday?

[normal mist]

I'm at Transmog

[rotund oak]

unless u are talking about darkest night which makes no sense,its either full cp or after shiv

[rotund oak]

[trail relic]

For me it is when i have darkest night buff, i need to spend all 7 cps to get rid of buff and then i can consume marks

[stray adder]

I think he's talking about the supercharged 5cp

which I believe I saw a hotfix yesterday for that

but it wasnt very clear if it was the fix or not

[rotund oak]

yeah but idk how you would charge a cp unless its inside KB

and then it works for me

[hollow pier]

I imagine he has a mark from ambush and darkest night buff, if that bug is still a thing I haven't noticed

[stray adder]

that's the vague ahh hotfix we got last night

adressed an issue with the interaction between DM and Supercharged cp

[hollow pier]

I think it may be the other bug affecting him

[stray adder]

yeah idk

[hollow pier]

Because it used to be if u have an active DSM out and the darkest night buff it would not consume DSM stacks before you get rid of darkest night

[lucid silo]

i still lost darkest night randomly after the fix

[thorn depot]

hey guys, are the m+ talents up to date on wowhead or are there any better setups?

[rotund oak]

yup ik,posted it as well on the chat earlier

[hollow pier]

Chefs cheffing but that one is fine

[thorn depot]

thanks mate

[odd light]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[rare token]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[glad scroll]

can someone tell me why they're talking about Shaman in the outlaw channel?

[obtuse ruin]

What happened that suddenly subtlety trickster is higher than assa in dungeon slice

Thought they just got blackpowder buffs

[soft shale]

dslice just favours sub cd profile assa does more dps in dungeons

although sub now is quite good on rp dungeons

[lime pelican]

Any new m+ builds with ttk

[grim jay]

completely emptied tanks

from the stupid tea discussions

[proven jasper]

[normal mist]

Because the outlaw bug was fixed

[plucky patio]

Is kingsbane getting parried or something like that on queen a New Thing?

[pseudo cosmos]

no u just got fucked

wipe and go again

[cobalt sphinx]

Queen was the only parry I’ve noticed all xpac

She is a straight hater

[normal mist]

Hit her butt

[winged quail]

Ovinax is the king of parries this tier for me

Cuz standing behind in the tail is too fking dangerous

[proven jasper]

Just play trickster

[halcyon grail]

When the tank doesn't pull her out of liquify far enough to let you #backstab

[somber sparrow]

and within 2 seconds of the pull - if you wait any longer for her to get into position her aura will pull us out of stealth.

and some bosses we have to not be by the boss at the pull because it will melee attack us if we're nearby, even though we're in stealth and not attacking

[cobalt sphinx]

yeah i think i was using sprint and step or two steps on the pull

[normal mist]

Shadowstep on the pull

[unique kettle]

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

[spice spire]

Her movement is weird

I stealth up to queen, then get two abilities in and have to shadowstep to stay in line with her

[thorn fjord]

Anything new today?

[cobalt sphinx]

yeah they always pull her out and she runs fast

[midnight mist]

alo

Im getting conflicted informations

who is lying to me

that whospar guy said open wowhead so i opened wowhead and took m+ build

but then I was told m+ builds werent updated

and to go subterfuge ma

who to trust

[fleet pagoda]

both are good

[merry bison]

Go on murlokio

[coral ibex]

trust no one

[real granite]

wowhead build is completly viable

[cobalt sphinx]

you're gonna get in trouble for asking that

[midnight mist]

yes but its fine

[thorn fjord]

Both work silly

[balmy prism]

subterfuge if you wanna be a silence bot

non sub if you play with a competent group

imo

[midnight mist]

I cant get into trouble here

im immuned

cause im outlaw

[merry bison]

[spice spire]

That’s false

[midnight mist]

no

you guys cant get mad at me for being clueless

because im a nice outlaw one trick

[gusty mirage]

Can I get mad at you because I’m mad at everything tho?

[spice spire]

Only when you’re obtuse

[midnight mist]

wtf

[cobalt sphinx]

i think subt ma is untested but probably better but the builds on wowhead are tested and fine for feeding to the masses

[midnight mist]

not you oxi

[proven jasper]

Outlaw one trick but play assa

[thorn fjord]

Guys

[proven jasper]

Make it make sense

[thorn fjord]

IM COOKED

https://did-my-husband-buy-bruto.com/

[proven jasper]

Zac

[gusty mirage]

I knew it

Also I posted in OT already loser

[thorn fjord]

LMAOOOO

[gusty mirage]

Repost

[pastel onyx]

Ahahhahhah

Lmao

[thorn fjord]

That was too quick dude lmao im dying

[gusty mirage]

Sounds like I should start handling divorce

[thorn fjord]

No please no

Good thing my wife doesnt use Reddit

[gusty mirage]

Lmao

[balmy prism]

just say you used gold like everyone actually did lol

[thorn fjord]

Tokens are close to 400k right now

Its a wild time

[balmy prism]

on NA?

[coral ibex]

nah they're like 300k on NA

[thorn fjord]

yeah

[balmy prism]

damn, 350k ish on EU atm

[thorn fjord]

340 my bad

yeah i exaggerated

[balmy prism]

It'll drop again when playernumbers dwindle coming two months

[coral ibex]

from the AH rn

[thorn fjord]

boooo

[umbral sigil]

STONKS

[coral ibex]

i have 2 on the AH so i'm personally invested in the price lol

[subtle oyster]

Tokens are already falling tho, they were at 430kish 6hrs ago

[past panther]

it’s Friday

payday for a lot of ppl

let the ppl who cave instantly buy and then they’ll probably go up some more

[coral ibex]

they were 330k when i woke up this morning

[subtle oyster]

More a case of everyone has their bruto already. Was the same during TWW and D4 announcements.

[past panther]

weekend players will hop on and buy some

[thorn fjord]

Im bout to buy 2

its payday