assassination

[proven jasper]

like the idea of a shadow rupture is cool but like wheres the bleed spec bleed damage at

[novel star]

…?

explain

[balmy condor]

df s3? Where we didn't multidot?

[brittle quail]

bleed or poison were supposed to be the dot class and were not using them for dmg this seems so wrong

[rotund marsh]

is that a bug? it should only be splashing nature damage right?

[static glacier]

out of context but still relevant

[sullen mural]

Technically speaking

Caustic is a dot

[proven jasper]

No

[sullen mural]

Cluegi

[balmy condor]

df season 3 was the least bleed focused verrsion of the spec we've ever seen

[proven jasper]

tails cosmic damage counts for spatter

[thorn thorn]

English failure on my part, I meant I played in S2 and liked multi dotting, and last time I played was a bit in S3 after spatter

[proven jasper]

its meant to be like that

[novel star]

it is not a bug, cosmic/plague damage are just considered nature

[rotund marsh]

ahhhh i see

[balmy condor]

oh, yeah

[novel star]

so the hero talents spatter

[rotund marsh]

is fatebound ever used for assa?

i only see DS

[static glacier]

it's never going to be bleed focused again unless something very drastic happens

[orchid cedar]

youc could play in s2 as a rogue? weird

[coral ibex]

fatebound sims pretty close to ds

you could play it if you want

[brittle quail]

not really its a debuff that effectively does dot

[rotund marsh]

does it do anything better or worse

[coral ibex]

its more autopilot

it does worse prio damage

[thorn thorn]

I liked spatter to an extent because it let me do aoe with Kingsbane but thats about the extent of how much I like it

[novel star]

not really, i mean they’re close enough in damage but ds is better prio and way better defensives which are valuable things in m+

[balmy condor]

buff rupture/arterial, nerf caustic, and we're basically there

[sullen mural]

Higher crit number on envenom better hero tree all im sayin

[novel star]

in raid you can pick either and it doesn’t really matter

[rotund marsh]

which has better energy uptime

[novel star]

both run dry brotha that’s sin

[coral ibex]

yea

[orchid cedar]

how would this change the gameplay tho?

[balmy condor]

you would rupture

[coral ibex]

DS wants to stay below 50% more

[orchid cedar]

you'd be doing basically the same as now

[coral ibex]

!design

[prisma monolith]

Running out of energy in single target is completely normal, intended design of Assassination. You want to be playing for the highest uptime on Envenom, and not blindly spamming away all your energy. Rapid Injection, Sanguine Blades, and Vicious Venoms all play into this gameplay.

• No, haste will not make this feel noticeably better.
• 10% haste only contributes to around 2 actions per minute
• You should be playing for envenom uptime in single target

[sullen mural]

You would actually rupture

[coral ibex]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[rotund marsh]

does haste benefit the energy noticeably?

[sullen mural]

Ouutside of IC window

[novel star]

no

[rotund marsh]

running crit haste since i play outlaw too

[sullen mural]

Ic*

[rotund marsh]

whats haste doing for assa then?

[novel star]

!design

[prisma monolith]

Running out of energy in single target is completely normal, intended design of Assassination. You want to be playing for the highest uptime on Envenom, and not blindly spamming away all your energy. Rapid Injection, Sanguine Blades, and Vicious Venoms all play into this gameplay.

• No, haste will not make this feel noticeably better.
• 10% haste only contributes to around 2 actions per minute
• You should be playing for envenom uptime in single target

[novel star]

idk man damage and shit

[rotund marsh]

lol

[orchid cedar]

you still have to rupture for energy specially in high keys

[novel star]

we don’t look at stats

[coral ibex]

there's no haste breakpoint

like for outlaw

[proven jasper]

Faster auto attacks/bleed ticks really

[novel star]

every stat is good and they kind of overlap “purposes”

[balmy condor]

yes, you would be rupturing for damage, not energy

[brittle quail]

thats the point tho we dont use it for dmg

[rotund marsh]

i do like fast autos 🙂

[balmy condor]

and actually maxing out scent

[sullen mural]

Yes but rupturing a mob thats 10% health so it dies is different than rupturing it for dmg

[proven jasper]

Its minimal tho

[orchid cedar]

i get it but gameplay wise

[novel star]

haste and crit both give damage and energy economy but you don’t focus on any stat for the stat

[coral ibex]

mastery is much better on assa than outlaw fwiw

[novel star]

you just sim it

[orchid cedar]

it's just the same

feelings aside

[balmy condor]

it legit isn't

[novel star]

and equip whatever item sims good

[rotund marsh]

i just go crit haste in order to benefit both decently

[balmy condor]

you would be multi-dotting rupture more than now

that is a change in gameplay

[novel star]

i mean this sincerely

you are very likely losing damage by thinking about stats

do not think about stats

[coral ibex]

yea just get ilvl

[novel star]

super waste of effort

[sullen mural]

Just sim items equip what it says

[rotund marsh]

i mean i only think about stats in terms of crafted gear

[novel star]

sim or just equip ilvl

[sullen mural]

5hed

[orchid cedar]

the thing with spatter nerf is that it'd make balancing ST/AOE way easier which is a good thing

[coral ibex]

thats the great part about assa

[novel star]

^

[coral ibex]

does it have more total stats? its prob an upgrade

[novel star]

not having to give a fuck ab stats is peak

[rotund marsh]

does DS mark do good spatter damage?

[balmy condor]

I mean it makes it slightly easier, but it's still warping the spec around it pretty hard

that's why it needs to go further down

[rotund marsh]

also is this as strong as it sounds?

[proven jasper]

Imagine playing a caster and needing 30% haste

[brittle quail]

as outlaw you need the haste breakpoint not thinking about it is trolling

[sullen mural]

Until you realise u gotta use some vers pieces for m+ sadge

[coral ibex]

yes

[novel star]

sure but outlaw gross

[proven jasper]

tis good

[coral ibex]

its very good prio damage

[sullen mural]

This is hot ass

[orchid cedar]

i don't dissagree but if feels quite unlikely to happen right now

[sullen mural]

On details that is

[static glacier]

the return of exsanguinate, the new, bleed focused spender that replaces envenom

[novel star]

Yeah singular focus is good

[rotund marsh]

lol

[orchid cedar]

specially since rogues aren't doing like dogshit like fire mages were

[proven jasper]

A+ tier spec think of the funnel

[balmy condor]

it's very good in the situations where it's good is the answeer

[brittle quail]

not gross just so bugged i honestly think its trolling

[novel star]

if you look at overall damage singular focus looks bad but you’re also dumb if you look at overall damage to evaluate that talent

[rotund marsh]

is there any other class thats this good at funnel?

[balmy condor]

it's never going to be good on details but like on mythic ovi'nax it's doing almost garrote damage to the boss

[sullen mural]

True

[novel star]

look the % it does on a prio target and it is more impressive

[rotund marsh]

cause it just sounds so gross

[balmy condor]

like it is very good boss damage

[rotund marsh]

wow.

[alpine oracle]

is afenar weakauras still affecting performance??

[balmy condor]

idk if he updated his

[novel star]

don’t think he did

just delete the models

[rotund marsh]

Anyone know about hijack?

[novel star]

afaik they don’t do anything on like any of the class packs

[alpine oracle]

I was using luxthos or so and i don't like it tbh 😦

[novel star]

so it’s fine to delete

[orchid cedar]

ngl Rogue as a whole is a clusterfuck of a class, every spec has its problems

[rotund marsh]

I just want to not have frame lag all the time

[orchid cedar]

it's pretty funny

[novel star]

Use afenar wa -> go to display tab -> delete the models

[balmy condor]

what is that

[novel star]

lag is gone

[brittle quail]

i think assa has way less problem than outlaw

[balmy condor]

idk, assa is pretty solid

[rotund marsh]

Weak auras I like the use on my classes

[balmy condor]

it's just a big wobbly

[static glacier]

we have engineered difficulty added in bc it would be too easy if every spell didn't have three conditions dictating its use

[balmy condor]

like

is it bleed

is it caustic

[sullen mural]

I mean yeah that shit is a slotmachine

[balmy condor]

no one knows

but overall, assa is a very solid spec

[rotund marsh]

What’s wrong with outlaw rn? I heard the attack range is a lot of people’s problem with it

But it’s getting buffed

[brittle quail]

more like a bugfest casino buried in a mountain of cocaine

[orchid cedar]

it's very buggy

[rotund marsh]

Oh and killing spree

[static glacier]

downtime / rng and low burst. add in permanent bugs with bte

[rotund marsh]

Oh dude I’m getting an annoying bug

[alpine oracle]

can you share the command to check if models are giving lag??

[rotund marsh]

Where bte just doesn’t go off

[novel star]

!lag

[prisma monolith]

Significant WA lag
Weakauras has identified a source of large lag on some weakauras. This happens on any weakauras using MODELS in their display tab. Deleting the model or turning the affected weakaura to never load should give back a couple of FPS.

You can check for impacted weakauras by running the following script in your in-game chat. If any are affected, their name will show in your chat: lua /run local function _(a)if a.regionType=="model"then return 1 end for i,s in pairs(a.subRegions or{})do if s.type=="submodel"then return 1 end end end for n,a in pairs(WeakAurasSaved.displays)do if _(a)then print(n)end end

[orchid cedar]

fun spec tho, you press buttons

[rotund marsh]

I spam it like 40x and it doesn’t work unless I change target

[brittle quail]

wich comes from stealth bug affecting adr and bf

[novel star]

ye they have a bug where bte is on cooldown but on your bars it looks like it’s off cooldown

[coral ibex]

when they fix vanish resetting bte i will play outlaw again

that bug

fuckign BLOWS

[novel star]

and mashing it gives u a ghost animation

disastrous issue

lmfao

[alpine oracle]

mmm i think he might update it i dont get the message when i put it *for afenar wa

[orchid cedar]

the subterfuge bug is also annoying as fuck

[brittle quail]

you can still make it bug if your too fast btw

[orchid cedar]

watching your AR go away

[coral ibex]

thank you kanye very cool

[sullen mural]

P sure it had that in df already no?

[static glacier]

hot take: they need to have a non crackshot option be viable

[rotund marsh]

Yeah I have been getting really annoyed by it, hopefully they change it

Nvm it’s just immersion, the guns just jamming

[novel star]

no idea spec sucks ass i don’t pay attention to it

[coral ibex]

outlaw without crackshot

why even bother

[sullen mural]

Baseg

[coral ibex]

i only play it for the ace procs

[brittle quail]

my biggest issue with the spec tbh

[rotund marsh]

What’s that bug

[coral ibex]

if you have subterfuge and stealth, it stops working

[brittle quail]

when you stealth while subterfuge is active you lose adr and bf

[rotund marsh]

I play outlaw for blade flurry and the sound that the bte proc makes

[coral ibex]

so your AR ticks down in stealth

after a pack

its so sick

[novel star]

wtf

[rotund marsh]

Wow that’s dogshit

So many classes have some bad bugs

[novel star]

deserved for outlaw honestly

[coral ibex]

outlaw NEEDS to chain packs

so badly

[rotund marsh]

Like just completely wrong values on hero talents is the common one I see

[orchid cedar]

how's subelty playing? Never bothered to try it out

[brittle quail]

and you cannot not send vanish at the end of pack otherwise you still lose adr

[static glacier]

i play outlaw for having dumb tts prompts for my rtb weak aura grading the quality of buffs I got, we are not the same

[brittle quail]

its bonkers how bad it is

[coral ibex]

its a fun spec tho

[sullen mural]

If you highroll resets it is

[brittle quail]

yeah i love it just got too sick of the bugs

[coral ibex]

its the zoomer apm spec for when boomer assa gets too boring

[novel star]

every good build is dust so that’s like controversial or whatever

[rotund marsh]

lol, I would like to have a cool weak aura for rtb like a colored block that rates the buff

[novel star]

cringe cd shit

[coral ibex]

i got 7 aces in a row the other day

[novel star]

that’s all i knkw rly

[orchid cedar]

isn't dust gone?

next patch?

[sullen mural]

In .5 it is

[novel star]

in 11.0.5 yeah

[orchid cedar]

RIP i guess

[sullen mural]

Iirc

Thank god fuck dust

[rotund marsh]

Yeah I tried dust and that made sub feel fun

Cd spec getting lowered cds is nice

Considering how ass they feel outside of cds

[brittle quail]

i love dust but so many people hate it, it had to go

[rotund marsh]

Why do people hate it?

Oh noooooo my cds are lowered

[static glacier]

one of them from df used to have an option to rate, had to manually turn ont he tts setting and then change it from saying "bad, good, average, great, amazing" to stuff like "it's jover, hong zu, remember the placidium" etc.

[brittle quail]

turned sub into spreasheet class based on kill timer

[novel star]

it’s because it makes ur shit weird

[rotund marsh]

Lmao

[novel star]

u press some cds alone that would otherwise be synced

or smth

[rotund marsh]

Ah I see

Flag and sb will be on the same cd now at least

[novel star]

too much brain for me to ever figure it out

[novel star]

at this point idk why they don’t just combine them lmao

but whateva

[rotund marsh]

But yeah I only like shadow technique burst on sub, everything else is just unfun

[sullen mural]

Just based on killtimer

Which sucks in average guilds

[rotund marsh]

Combine nerf and make it a 1 min cd

Ez

[novel star]

well

i like the 1m30thing

[rotund marsh]

I don’t

[novel star]

F

[rotund marsh]

Cause the gameplay outside of it does 0 damage

[sullen mural]

Lines up perfectly for aug no

[rotund marsh]

That could also just be fixed

[sullen mural]

Goated padd

[novel star]

no idea wtf the dragons r doing im gonna be honest

[orchid cedar]

1 30 forces you to play with transmiter trinket

no thanks

[thorn thorn]

If they are Scalecommander 1m30s will line up

[novel star]

i like aug in my keys because it makes the tank survive shit they shouldn’t be able to

that’s about it

[sullen mural]

That trinket is so overhated

Crazy

[alpine oracle]

!lag

[prisma monolith]

Significant WA lag
Weakauras has identified a source of large lag on some weakauras. This happens on any weakauras using MODELS in their display tab. Deleting the model or turning the affected weakaura to never load should give back a couple of FPS.

You can check for impacted weakauras by running the following script in your in-game chat. If any are affected, their name will show in your chat: lua /run local function _(a)if a.regionType=="model"then return 1 end for i,s in pairs(a.subRegions or{})do if s.type=="submodel"then return 1 end end end for n,a in pairs(WeakAurasSaved.displays)do if _(a)then print(n)end end

[proven jasper]

transmitter is goated dawg

i burst for a billion dam

good to me

[sullen mural]

Oh no jump 3 times for agility buff

[proven jasper]

Im so scared i have to collect the orb

Oh no

[orchid cedar]

i still don't have a good Skadryns fml

[coral ibex]

if i recraft my dagger to put on a different embellishment, does it require a new enchanted crest?

[sullen mural]

Define good

[novel star]

just get it

[novel star]

no

[balmy condor]

reminded me to go check on end myth

[coral ibex]

W thank you

[orchid cedar]

HC track at least

[balmy condor]

AAAAAAA

[coral ibex]

switching to dawnthread

[static glacier]

these guys have insane mental

it's crazy

they always pull this shit

[proven jasper]

1k pulls

[balmy condor]

dude watching end myth pull counter go up

[novel star]

i would kill myself after 500 pulls but my ghost would continue for the 1k

[balmy condor]

might be my favorite past time

[coral ibex]

991

insane

bro just get up and relax

[static glacier]

I swear all other guilds would disband around 500 pulls

[coral ibex]

you stopped making meaningful prog at 500

[balmy condor]

there's another cn guild that goes bonkers giga pull

is it zbox?

hold

[coral ibex]

zbox did over 1000 i think

[sullen mural]

Holding

[balmy condor]

yeah zbox

is giga pull guild as well

[olive pawn]

when i shiv a KB target, does the increase affect caustic splash damage?

[novel star]

nope

caustic aoe dam is calculated before target debuffs

[olive pawn]

ah

[novel star]

if you used arterial it would increase caustic on the 4 other targets that got shiv or whatever

[static glacier]

only if you hit the caustic splash targets with arterial precision'd shiv

[novel star]

cause spatter damage itself checks debuffs

[sullen mural]

I miss aoe shiv

[novel star]

but the damage calculation of it happens before

[olive pawn]

aight makes sense, thanks

[rotund marsh]

Yeah legit the worst trinket I’ve ever played with

[balmy condor]

okay but imagine

1035 pulls on ansurek

with transmitter

[static glacier]

highkey id just play double passive or 1 passive and queen trink

[sullen mural]

It aint that bad man

[novel star]

I will roll need on transmitter just to vendor it so my guildies don’t suicide using it

[balmy condor]

cause they had a sub rogue

[novel star]

thoughts?

[rotund marsh]

“Jump 3 times” 🤖

[balmy condor]

someone did that

[sullen mural]

I hates everbloom balls more

Hated*

[balmy condor]

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22387-stockholm-syndrome

wishing you a speedy recovery king

[novel star]

god

i want to raid

why must people be normal humans and only raid on set days

[orchid cedar]

do you use transmiter on cd?

[balmy condor]

with dm

[novel star]

i could be attacking a bug right now

[orchid cedar]

or with deaath mark?

[sullen mural]

Dm

[orchid cedar]

makes sense

[balmy condor]

on cd would mean you'd buff literally nothing

on 3/4 casts

[sullen mural]

Lejit

[proven jasper]

Buffing those mutilates

[orchid cedar]

feels like a waste man

[proven jasper]

going brazy

[sullen mural]

Its 1:30 we have 1m and 2m xdd

[rotund marsh]

Go pug

[balmy condor]

[orchid cedar]

god bless Skardyn's better

[novel star]

u also want to precast transmitter and pick it up when u dm right

[proven jasper]

Yeah u have time

[balmy condor]

yeh ideally

[sullen mural]

If u can

[novel star]

that’s so ass

balls trinket

[static glacier]

sounds like you need to join end myth

[dapper cradle]

How’s the TW on use for Sin?

[iron valve]

just pug! you too could be wiping on heroic broodkeeper :^)

[balmy condor]

good

[novel star]

i kms before i struggle in a pug

[sullen mural]

Wish it was higher ilvl

[whole stratus]

whats a socket worth in terms of ilvl in TWW?

[novel star]

if the pug doesn’t kill a boss in like 5 pulls

aintnoway

[balmy condor]

I'm still going back and forth on whether I nerf transmitter by making the sim macro it to dm because of the pre-cast tbh

[balmy condor]

that's not really a thing, slots have different stat values

[novel star]

i mean it’s good to have the sim be accurate to how u would actually use it

[static glacier]

how long does the sim take to finisht he minigame

[balmy condor]

I'd guess probably like 4?

[proven jasper]

can u force the sim to use it like 3-4 gcds before dm

[balmy condor]

It doesn't care, the sim has 2 lines, one to cast the trinket and one to do the mini-game

[whole stratus]

alrighty thanks @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

it always completes the mini-game on the gcd after dm

which is gcd perfect

[static glacier]

might be ethical to sandbag it slightly then

since gl jumping 3 times in a global

[balmy condor]

I mean if you cast the trinket with DM you can't complete any mini game within 2 gcds

[novel star]

well the choice would be between where minigame complete is placed right

like

[balmy condor]

just not possible

[novel star]

he would just make it finish minigame 3s into dm or smth

which nerfs the trink

[balmy condor]

yeah

[rotund marsh]

can someone put that WA bug command in again

[static glacier]

i think the collect one is doable in 2

[novel star]

right now it’s accurate to optimal precasting

[rotund marsh]

so i can see the script i need to type in chat

[balmy condor]

I would nerf it to just cast on dm

and then do the minigame asap

[balmy condor]

!lag

[prisma monolith]

Significant WA lag
Weakauras has identified a source of large lag on some weakauras. This happens on any weakauras using MODELS in their display tab. Deleting the model or turning the affected weakaura to never load should give back a couple of FPS.

You can check for impacted weakauras by running the following script in your in-game chat. If any are affected, their name will show in your chat: lua /run local function _(a)if a.regionType=="model"then return 1 end for i,s in pairs(a.subRegions or{})do if s.type=="submodel"then return 1 end end end for n,a in pairs(WeakAurasSaved.displays)do if _(a)then print(n)end end

[orchid cedar]

is bloodmallet good for trinket sims?

[balmy condor]

it's okay yeah

[novel star]

ya it’s fine

simming your character is better

but bloodmallet is fine

[balmy condor]

you just have to know that bloodmallet is comparing trinkets for 1 slot

so it doesn't do combos

like skardyns/transmitter are really high on bloodmallet

you'd be a dumbass to use them together

[rotund marsh]

ty

[orchid cedar]

i'm doing Skadryn/egg for ST and Skadryn/Spyglass por AOE

[balmy condor]

yeah that's fine

[sullen mural]

Im a knife enjoyer in aoe

[balmy condor]

I'm not even using skardyns on ovi'nax atm

[rotund marsh]

wow its only one WA that has the thing

[novel star]

i’m simply doing skardyn sac for everything because i don’t fully trust the mercurial egg sim

[rotund marsh]

do i disable it?

[novel star]

it’s a little sussy

[balmy condor]

character model background

that sounds horrid

[dapper cradle]

I’m in 606 skar prison rn

[balmy condor]

character model backgrounds on elvui are lagging too

[rotund marsh]

its for my ugly character sheet WA

[balmy condor]

oh

that's...

[novel star]

freaky shit

[iron valve]

what game is this

[balmy condor]

probably fine actually

[rotund marsh]

elder scrolls online

[balmy condor]

cause that's not rendering in combat

[sullen mural]

XD

[balmy condor]

so I think it wouldn't actually affect you

[novel star]

[rotund marsh]

i do have bad performance sometimes

running on a pretty decent pc

4070

[balmy condor]

do you use elv?

[sullen mural]

Just remove it if u wanna be save

[novel star]

everyone has bad performance tho

[rotund marsh]

nope, bartender

[novel star]

also wow is a cpu game

[balmy condor]

hm

[novel star]

your gpu doesn’t matter

[balmy condor]

yeh gpu is pointless

[rotund marsh]

i can just disable that specific part of it right?

[sullen mural]

I do sadge

[novel star]

pure cpu game

[rotund marsh]

13th gen core i7

[orchid cedar]

every game is a CPU monster these days

[balmy condor]

do you have the character portrait thing on

[iron valve]

probably just make sure the WA is set to load only out of combat I guess?

[sullen mural]

Fuck no

[balmy condor]

then you're chillin

that thing uses the same model technology

[sullen mural]

I even disable plater in raid just to be save

[balmy condor]

elvui character model in fram is like 15 fps

[novel star]

u should be fine

what is ur definition of bad performance

[sullen mural]

Also what does "sometimes" mean

Like if u raid with 30 people shits ass

[rotund marsh]

am i supposed to have shit performance then?

[broken hollow]

I'm not sure why, but my CT damage seems low in multiple dungeons - I'm keeping it live on 2+ more mobs (I believe) and the packs are fairly large, are folks casting CT multiple times in larger groups?
logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Qz6jGYB84RwKHyFN#fight=8&type=damage-done
Also yes, farming GB for the trinket. one day.

[novel star]

if ur fps dips when adds spawn in a stacked heroic raid or some shit like that that’s just actually unavoidable

[sullen mural]

Why ur caustic so ass Modcheck

[novel star]

[proven jasper]

Ovinax when 50 mobs spawn all at once

my cpu loves it

[rotund marsh]

it says 87 but it feels sooooo much worse

its so choppy

[sullen mural]

Bro says 87 is bad

[rotund marsh]

frame lag

[sullen mural]

I played heroic raid on 10 fps

We are not the same

[novel star]

lag in dornogal is fake news but also 87 is whatever

[slate mirage]

just curious, i accidentally started a dungeon w/o poisons applied and i instantly ran out of energy on every pull. i cant find anything in our talent tree about energy regen from having weapon poisons applied so why is it such a night and day difference in energy between having them on

[rotund marsh]

it changes rapidly

[novel star]

venomous wounds

[rotund marsh]

i wish i could not play on 4k

[sullen mural]

Read again

[novel star]

right at the top

[rotund marsh]

i just want to play on 1080p man

[sullen mural]

Clearly you didnt check talent tree

[rotund marsh]

4k is making it run so much worse for sure

[novel star]

bro ur upset about like barely sub 60 in the hub city in 4k or?

[slate mirage]

o, wow ty i didnt realize they had to be poisoned to get the energy back

[novel star]

like what are we talking about here

are we on mars

[sullen mural]

That guy is different

[rotund marsh]

if i go to 1080p the ui gets super big and everything looks like its 400p

[sullen mural]

I have like 40 in city

Gaming

[balmy condor]

aria log

[rotund marsh]

nah it drops like every second, ranges from like 20-100 lol

[proven jasper]

U gotta change the ui scale brother if you change ur res

[novel star]

[rotund marsh]

look at this pixelated font lol

this is also why i hate it

why cant wow just use normal fullscreen mannnn

[novel star]

i mean yeah if u have a giga fat monitor and have to stretch out 1080 it’s gonna look bad

but that’s not wow it’s just videogames and your huge 4k monitor

lol

[rotund marsh]

1440 isnt too bad i guess

[sullen mural]

As a csgo veteran i love stretched fucked res

[static glacier]

one easy way to get a lot more ct dmg in grirm compared to what ur doing is replace 2nd rupture with ct then go into envs.

the gain frorm applying rupture to 2 more mini shitters is giga fake vs getting ct up 4 globals faster

[rotund marsh]

anyone use lossless scaling?

[sullen mural]

Tbf the main issue in that log is the caustic dmg

[static glacier]

in fact you're getting ct up SUUUUUUUPER late and missing almost entire use of it in this case

[static glacier]

I don't judge results, I judge the process

[sullen mural]

Deep

I just judge

[static glacier]

you could highroll or lowroll rng, you can control the buttons you press

[proven jasper]

No env buff before kb

[static glacier]

it's aoe, we can allow it

[proven jasper]

oh valid

[static glacier]

getting kb up faster lets her pad on the little shits

[proven jasper]

looked without reading

Yeah that ct is SUPERR late

[static glacier]

other than that you have a bad habit of muting wayyyy too much on aoe

or fanning wayy to much on st

[rotund marsh]

something is wrong here, you guys said it was a cpu intensive game

[static glacier]

I think it's the first one

[rotund marsh]

why is it eating away mostly gpu memory?

[static glacier]

this can't be legal

[supple coral]

why do the high level mythic players run atrophic poison over numbing poison bc we i use it i feel as if my numbers drop drasticly

[static glacier]

since if ur out of mut range you'd back to back fan

[novel star]

why would ur numbers drop

[static glacier]

and if ur in st why would you fan more than once for clear

[novel star]

it’s just for group dr instead of tank dr

[supple coral]

bc we in run the raidbots numbers they are high but when im doing m+ im not much damage, am i playing wrong w the poison

[novel star]

and easier kicks i guess but

the poison selection will not change ur damage xd

[proven jasper]

Atro vs numbing does nothing

To ur damage

[novel star]

they’re both 0 dps poisons

[supple coral]

so im crazy in seeing diff numbers

[novel star]

non lethal

[novel star]

yes

[sullen mural]

You are

[supple coral]

alrighty ty i wanted to check

[rotund marsh]

is memory leak a thing in wow?

[proven jasper]

Has been before

[pliant remnant]

Next level feelycrafting hoooly

[novel star]

non lethals do give you more damage through the lethal dose talent but which non lethal u have on is irrelevant

[proven jasper]

No idea now

[novel star]

[proven jasper]

💯

[balmy condor]

okay but think about it like this, if you run atrophic, your rdps is taking less damage, so you should run numbing and hope that something hits your rdps and the 3.6% is enough to kill them

and then the rdps dies

and you get to pad

THINK MAN THINK

[novel star]

i will have you assassinated

[sullen mural]

Real

But what if you are the one that dies

[balmy condor]

promise?

[novel star]

ofc honeybun

👨‍❤️‍💋‍👨

[balmy condor]

god you just always know exactly what I want

such a way with words

[supple coral]

My other question is during m+ should I switch targets or focus one at a time?

[balmy condor]

ideally you'd be focusing on your caustic/mark

[sullen mural]

Ideally you stay on prio target

[supple coral]

Okay tyty all

[novel star]

@balmy condor that guild i ran away from when i was talking about ulgrax wall like 2 weeks ago

still doesn’t have aotc

and also still has “ce guild” in the recruitment page on wcl

[balmy condor]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[novel star]

holy fuck

[thorn thorn]

Ulgrax wall?

[novel star]

it’s actually absurd

[thorn thorn]

[novel star]

every single good player left

including an OFFICER

because recruitment was so bad

hahhsdhdh

actually unhinged gm

[drifting cloud]

maybe the guy that was editing wcl info left aswell

[proven jasper]

[sullen mural]

Somehow that exsists on hc aswell yeah

[novel star]

i thankfully am now in a better place and should be killing rashanan next week

but holy fuck

legit in prison for a month

alcatraz guild

[thorn thorn]

How, its literally the first boss

[sullen mural]

You'd be surprised how bad people are

[rotund oak]

i second this

[novel star]

i mean

when your gm is obsessed with being nice to people instead of being realistic

u get heroic grey parsers

on ur mythic team

[thorn thorn]

Getting stuck on the first boss in heroic is honestly new to me

[novel star]

cus they “just need to warm up!”

that’s how u get walled

on ulgrax

[sullen mural]

I have mythic grey parsers in my mythic team

could be worse ig

[brittle quail]

thats wild

ulgrax heroic has nothing to it

[rotund oak]

wait im confused,why are we talking about mythic teams and heroic 1st boss

[novel star]

ulgrax mythic has nothing to it man

[brittle quail]

true x)

[novel star]

the boss is literally an urban legend

it doesn’t do shit

[sullen mural]

dodge charge

hard mechanic

[novel star]

rashanan is the first boss that kinda does anything

[sullen mural]

Barely can see where it goes

[novel star]

and even she is fake as piss compared to the shit after

[proven jasper]

Yeah no idea on that one man

Thats insane

[thorn thorn]

My old guild got hard stuck on Mythic Igira

[proven jasper]

My grandma could kill mythic ulgrax

[rotund oak]

grandma's a gamer

[sullen mural]

that'd be banger content lowkey

get her on it

[proven jasper]

Yall aint never watched wowgrandma??

Smh

[rotund oak]

did some crest farming yday,2.5-2.6 tanks feeling comfy in pulling entire rooms to get oneshoted,brick my keys and leave right after

that was 4 keys

range-8-10s

just to crest farm

[royal lantern]

im the #2

[sullen mural]

The amount of tanks in mists

I see running into first pack

and insta die

is absurd

[thorn thorn]

Fr

[rotund oak]

SV is even worse tbh,or NW

mfkers cant dodge frontals

[thorn thorn]

I have seen many tanks in NW go to the necropolis, pull 2-3 packs and die instantly there too

[heady bluff]

Is wrathstone good?

[sullen mural]

My tank dies like 2-3 times/keys boosting SEVEN KEYS today

shits wild

jumps in like a hero in sv just to get insta clapped

fcking frauds

[thorn thorn]

I had a tank ask how he was supposed to live the tank mechanic on edna

[sullen mural]

Press a button helps

[spice spire]

[royal lantern]

those are the tanks that cry about the "insane tank nerfs"

cant 100% afk trought stuff anymore -> "blizz hates tanks"

[thorn thorn]

I was healing that dungeon but he stopped before we pulled the boss once and asked how he is supposed to live it

Guesstimation is that he didnt play with any healers that did the mechanic right before that

[sullen mural]

Dispell is kinda op

innit

[rotund oak]

[static glacier]

I think i might migrate after this tier

[sullen mural]

what does that mean

[static glacier]

off melee

[rotund oak]

server jump most likely

[static glacier]

look at this

[rotund oak]

ah ic

yeah thats pretty much it

can confirm,got a mage

[sullen mural]

It was more ice lances start of expansion

[thorn thorn]

Frost mage is press one button: the spec

[static glacier]

even the spec that has to actually cast is casting for half the time

what's going on man

[rotund oak]

not rly but its just procs at this point

[royal lantern]

tbf, arcane was always like that

[rotund oak]

and does heavy dmg

[static glacier]

nah it wasn't, I played it in s3 df

[thorn thorn]

Ya, just press Ice Lance

[static glacier]

we didn't get to barrage

[thorn thorn]

One button is obviously hyperbole

But its mostly Lance

[sullen mural]

I mean this was litterally frost mage rotation start of tww https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1196600699425927299/1280363888742764677/image.png?ex=670be28b&is=670a910b&hm=d4ad438926e0cb47406941463e417bdcaf4caa11fdd1728643a065948e7e628d&

[proven jasper]

Fire mage doesnt play skb anymore either

no more hard casts

Must be nice

[static glacier]

heck, even destro the most turret spec ingame got shadowburn to press on cd this expac

[thorn thorn]

Yup that looks painfully accurate

[static glacier]

why are they justifying taking long arms away, designing DOGSHIT like the first soak of ovinax's 2nd quarter being a litteral gamble on the closest eggs to boss with the side inside the boss

I litterally watched our pres who went mw after pres got nerfed die to it, there was nothing she could do

she then realised how shit it is for melee

why do we put up with this garbage while ranged payphone and meme us

there's a reason I ALWAYS pre-position at the opposite soak of that one

[storm forum]

damn, the "i only wanna cast one spell like in classic" crowd doubled down

[static glacier]

it's so I never have to take that coinflip pray you dont die soak

[sullen mural]

Just coinflip and blame blizz after

[static glacier]

nah

[royal lantern]

muh ranged mechanics!!!!!

(they dont do them, 1guy does them, the rest afk cadts the entire time and 60% of your wipes is ranged dps not moving/doing mechanics)

[static glacier]

id rather just let the other person take the coinflip

[rotund oak]

diabolist destro or demo is where the fun is boys,clip it and ship it

or hunter in general

[static glacier]

like some fights are harder for ranged, but if they just give ranged infinite instants

or litteral 2 button rotations

[sullen mural]

Hey its not like mage has 2 shimmers to move for mechanics

they need their insta cast rota

[static glacier]

idk what to say anymore

[royal lantern]

ye like

the "you lose dmg from movment" thing doesnt exists for 6years now and only got more and more a joke

[rotund oak]

they also got displacement and alter time btw^^

[sullen mural]

And yet even when playing with 2 range dps's in dawnbreaker somehow i have to do 4 of those bombs as melee

Keep yourself save mages

all im sayin

[static glacier]

we just don't make the healer do em, it's dps and one of us does an extra bomb

[thorn thorn]

Their openers go pretty hard

[static glacier]

y'know what's crazy

we unironically do less dps than them to dungeon bosses

or just bosses in general

[sullen mural]

Yeah thats fine but why do i have to do 4 when we have 2 range dps

[thorn thorn]

Actually?

[rotund oak]

it makes perfect sense bruh,they just stand and spam 1 button with cds

[rotund oak]

while u dont hit

[brittle quail]

not dungeons tho its pure st build or does that not impact them?

[sullen mural]

I mean my envenom on mists first boss crits for less than classes like enhancement shamans do without dmg amp

[static glacier]

and if we're saying sikran has downtime due to dashing here's kyveza

[proven jasper]

Muh sub rogue

[static glacier]

not in overall no, the ele I play with goes farseer and has v good boss dam and decent aoe, I do win overall

I still think he speeds keys up more than me though

[tall atlas]

any sims been done on the trinkets from the anniversary raid?

[brittle quail]

yeah win overall but with how much padding is the question ^^

[static glacier]

I'm open with people about sin being a pad spec

[brittle quail]

they probably do

[novel star]

holy shit dawg what r these colours

[sullen mural]

Above aug evoker NERF ASSA!

[static glacier]

my copy pasta is cooked, it deep fries shit

[sullen mural]

bro stop

i beg

[static glacier]

its getting more fried

[tall atlas]

youre doing it over 2 weeks thought which is adding in the pre buff stats

[brittle quail]

i mean we dont really pad we don't lose dps by doing it but still how much of our overall is not really useful to speed up the key

[tall atlas]

change it to 1 week

[novel star]

brother

[static glacier]

im not saying it's not useful, but if we do like 900k on a st boss like umbriss while ele does 1.1-2

[novel star]

silent hill screenshot or wat

[static glacier]

but then we do 200-400k more on some trash pulls

[novel star]

ur whole pc foggy

[static glacier]

the time saving ain't the same

[tall atlas]

or 1

[brittle quail]

yep

[static glacier]

funny thing is it only cooks when i snip tool

[tall atlas]

this is stats from this week only

time to go outlaw boiz

get your guns loaded

[static glacier]

we're still losing to a 1 button spec on a fight with a decent amount of movement xd

[sullen mural]

do one with shift+windows+s

[static glacier]

that is the one I use

[sullen mural]

that aint snipping tool man

[brittle quail]

in raid sure , in m+ its legit fighting against bugs i can't bother even tho i love the spec

[static glacier]

something's up with High def lighting

or hdr

idk

[sullen mural]

no

I never get bte resets

my gun is infact not loaded

[tall atlas]

+10 mists

[sullen mural]

Im feelin like jhin out here

[static glacier]

gl having law gear

[tall atlas]

this is loktarks from the OL disc rn

[static glacier]

its just 6 of the law junkies

if the avg player played law they'd not get a similar result

[sullen mural]

ace rng innit

[brittle quail]

i know it can work but still it fells horrible getting cucked by bugs i wont do it anymore except if its really broken number wise

[static glacier]

tbh lok does have the r1 natty rogue log, eleem is a filthy pi abuser

[tall atlas]

99th percentile 1 week

pretty even

[runic hinge]

Just make your priest love you

[sullen mural]

can we nerf this blue class up there

[runic hinge]

Not hard

[sullen mural]

I dont like them critting for 12m

[static glacier]

percentile is fake

jsut check hard rankings

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/38/#class=Rogue&boss=2920

[static glacier]

we're a shit pi target, im not getting it on brood despite doing like 200-350k more boss dps than our hunter

they capped kingsbane

https://bloodmallet.com/chart/power_infusion

[sullen mural]

Shadow priest pumping

[tall atlas]

still its pretty even

OL was always the highest simming of the three

and these buffs made it crazier

so time to get the hammers out

[static glacier]

if you have the gear and can play it ye

it is an OL boss

but im not gonna get a myth track OL wep

[sullen mural]

time to open vault on outlaw spec

i mean isnt first boss in raid like haste vers

thats ait stat wise for outlaw

[static glacier]

I keep rolling os on it but ol is giga low prio as far as offspecs go

and unless queen becomes an OL boss i doubt ill play ol this raid

other rogue is in for princess

[sullen mural]

Ah well

I'll prob get next one cuz noone wants it for os

so it wont ever drop again

[mystic osprey]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1294858782991581195/image.png?ex=670c8ab7&is=670b3937&hm=00b1258519361a2e0d3685d5d251dfe12121ec381b51da3ed7520ac0b9905780& HAHA

FUCK YOU

[winged sun]

I feel like i need to play double vanish in keys pugs specifically

[rotund oak]

u boys need to chill

[sullen mural]

why

[winged sun]

For silence

[static glacier]

nah, u just send blind and at a push kidney, any more and its a healer issue

[brittle quail]

yep the more i think about it the more i agree with that take

[static glacier]

`an extra set of ironwire per key ain't it

[sullen mural]

You say that but

my tanks fall over some pulls

[winged sun]

Cuz in season 3 DF we struggled timing keys with non vdh tanks

[sullen mural]

i wish i had an exra set ot ironwire

[winged sun]

?

[static glacier]

double vanish is an extra 1-2 casts a key

[winged sun]

I can tell u never pushed top 0.001%

[static glacier]

no I ain't

[brittle quail]

not really its like 1 more vanish beetween each boss

[winged sun]

Not everything is about dps

Dps is super high this season

Way too high

[static glacier]

yes ofc, is your group REALLY struggling for stops?

[winged sun]

Wdym struggling

[static glacier]

as in you want more

[winged sun]

Literally every group in the game needs more stops

[sullen mural]

cant have enough stops to be fair

[static glacier]

cooked answer is law and start mashing cheap shot

[winged sun]

Especially aoe dr+silence

[static glacier]

in reality ye, the one exception for double vanish is super high keys

[winged sun]

Outlaw never presses cheapshots

[static glacier]

at that point you shouldn't need to ask us here

[proven jasper]

theres a first time for everything

[static glacier]

you'd ask ur tank when he would want the extra iw

[winged sun]

tank has nothing to do with it tho

[static glacier]

tank / group w/e

[winged sun]

Its to stop casts for us to live

[sullen mural]

pug tanks are just ass and think they survive everything

gimme that extra dr

[static glacier]

if it makes a key possible sure

since push keys have obscenely large pulls id still say aoe stops are better since the secondary silence on iw is a gamble if ur pulling 20

[brittle quail]

i mean in pugs it cerntaily saves more key than er

[tender torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/perfect-popcorn-michael-jackson-gif-26271837

[winged sun]

Dpe is way too high this season and mobs are way too dangerous

Dps*

[static glacier]

you running an aug?

[winged sun]

They need to just increase their hp i guess and lower dmg done by mobs

I dont play much now im still in army

Random setups for now

No fixed grp

[zenith tree]

I saw the script I can run for the broken WAs, someone type the command

[mystic osprey]

!lag

[prisma monolith]

Significant WA lag
Weakauras has identified a source of large lag on some weakauras. This happens on any weakauras using MODELS in their display tab. Deleting the model or turning the affected weakaura to never load should give back a couple of FPS.

You can check for impacted weakauras by running the following script in your in-game chat. If any are affected, their name will show in your chat: lua /run local function _(a)if a.regionType=="model"then return 1 end for i,s in pairs(a.subRegions or{})do if s.type=="submodel"then return 1 end end end for n,a in pairs(WeakAurasSaved.displays)do if _(a)then print(n)end end

[tall atlas]

is there a way to assign gearsets to different builds in the same spec

[zenith tree]

ty ryan

[tall atlas]

so assa ST vs M+

[mystic osprey]

what for

for sin?

[tall atlas]

just an addon or a wa that will swap my gear out when i change builds

not spec

[brittle quail]

addon yes

loadout talent

or something

[rotund oak]

just save what new gear set u want under a different name

..

[rotund oak]

think its called outfitter but not 100% sure

[brittle quail]

not thinking about the same one but i'm sure there is option

[rotund oak]

im kinda thinking why would u want an addon to switch gear sets though

u can always bind ur gear and swap it out

[brittle quail]

yeah i had one never used it i used the bind x)

[young flicker]

Whats the best & easiest recipe to farm for food for sin M+?

[rotund oak]

risotto

its basicly mycoblooms

[radiant yoke]

Are you guys playing with sanguine blades?

The 50% energy build

[sly sky]

Anyone notice that if you hit cloak ofshadows before queen's bane goes out you dont get it

Like when the lines go out

[balmy condor]

I'm not in raids

[radiant yoke]

I think I'm not even going to try with my haste where it's at, only like 5%

[balmy condor]

I mean has nothing to do haste

it's just 0.3% better for most people

I cba

probably will have to play it on court though cause 2t

but otherwise just don't care lowkey

[novel star]

late but cool i guess

2 chesting a 10 in a pug is a wild vibe

shouldve been 3 but this FREAKKKKKK healer died like 4 times in the first 3 min

[balmy condor]

Sorry I was the healer

No one can match my freak

[novel star]

yea u would meta abuse rsham

fucker

anyways yea sanguine blades is cringe and annoying

the talent itself and also needing imp gar

both talents are cringe on ds

dont bother

[runic hinge]

Hello team

[novel star]

yo

[runic hinge]

I want one sbs flair

[novel star]

get it

[runic hinge]

Willing to trade an unreleased Stu pic

[novel star]

if ur hard cuck stuck on deathstalker its prob cus of this msg

and then sbs is just from the

channels and roles things

on top of channel list

[runic hinge]

Fixed

I’m beautiful again

[sly sky]

The defensives are too good

[gritty sequoia]

!craft

[prisma monolith]

Preferences currently are wrist/belt/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" in raid, but has ramp time and is worse in m+
2x Dawnthread (wrist/belt) is generally the best in m+ and not far behind of Ascencion/Banding for raids. Equal in single target at 80% uptime

Craft a dagger if you're unlucky and don't get one and are down bad and crying about your pathetic little 580 main hand dagger. Put Ascencion on it
If you have a big dagger in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

[west crown]

So double vanish is cringe but if we are pugging 10+, the utility is probably worth it for the lack of group communication right?

[balmy condor]

Nah

Double vanish is legit only usable because of the group communication and being able to rotate it in on very specific packs depending on the dungeon

[young dust]

Are we expecting a dps increase with 11.0.5?

Read the changes but not sure

[balmy condor]

No

[young dust]

only QOL?

[balmy condor]

We are expecting talent reworks

Not tuning

[young dust]

well just a gcd because no SnD i think?

[sullen mural]

We get an insane amount of "OH THANK FUCK" cuz feint if off gcd now

[urban raft]

"

depths or radiant power exclusively M+

[west crown]

Radiant

[novel star]

i just meant the role

on disc

[arctic tusk]

@balmy condor where do I do this again

to test talents

i forgot where the button is

ON GOD

NVM

just have to click copy

on my talents

[balmy condor]

[arctic tusk]

[languid ferry]

on how much targets do u guys typically apply bleeds. I feel like I might be spending to much time dotting the mobs up on bigger packs

[novel star]

any amount of targets

but

only up to 5 ruptures

[languid ferry]

why up to 5 ruptures? does it cap out

[novel star]

u do 5 for this

[languid ferry]

ooooh ok

[tired gull]

and 5 gives you plenty of energy regen

[novel star]

and 5 is also usually enough bleeds for infinite energy

and spending ur energy and gcds on spatter mashing

is just better than like a little chungus garrote or whatever

@balmy condor so rupture sniping is 15s with dashing, was the 7s thing accurate without it

i rember that was just like a guess or sum idk if u doublechecked it by now

[languid ferry]

so once I set up 4-5 ruptures I should at that point also stop garroting and just send the dmg

[novel star]

[novel star]

yes

garrote only when its stealth buffed or on prio target if you giga need the energy

but you probably will not need the energy

so

just from stealth

[languid ferry]

ok I am definitely over garroting then lmaoo

[novel star]

ya

[languid ferry]

been using it unbuffed aswell

[novel star]

its not a very good button

[languid ferry]

oof

[novel star]

spatter is unbelievably overtuned

and so is CT

after you have 5 ruptures up for the agi buff and energy you really just dont give a fuck about literally anything except fan envenom and ct

awesome design on this spec man

good shit

W

[languid ferry]

xDDDD

I can roll with that haha

when indiscriminate carnage spreads a rupture it also applies a bonespike if it can right

[arctic tusk]

successful sim 😎

[sullen mural]

I mean it aint thaat bad but outside of IC its ass

[balmy condor]

Yeh, number goes up with saturation and dashing

[balmy condor]

Holy 0.2% gained

[arctic tusk]

now let me refer to my sin rogue WOWHEAD GUIDE to check the opener with different talents

[runic hinge]

Greatest gain in my life would be .2

[arctic tusk]

all while CHECKING PINS to make sure I'm up to date

[blazing jewel]

Keep spamming that sim until it ticks over until 0.3%

Have to high roll

[novel star]

Kk bet

talenting out of dashing so i can snipe more

thoughts?

[novel star]

well yeah thats what i meant

it(non stealth garrote) isnt a very good button

not garrote in general

obv

[arctic tusk]

is there anything wrong iwth using ER instead of that first mut without shrouded suffication

[sullen mural]

Yeah non stealh garrot is hot ass

[novel star]

i dont think so?

[arctic tusk]

[novel star]

ive been ERing there when the ambush doesnt crit

maybe i am wrong

but i dont see anything bad with it

[sullen mural]

I do that aswell

maybe we were wrong together

[novel star]

dont get spatter on the first dsm i guess but thats fake news man

maybe its for poison app

idk rly

[runic hinge]

Snipe every target with a 5 cp rupture before it’s about the die and the energy is surely a gain

[sullen mural]

I need my charged combopoints

[novel star]

ask whispyr

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

Sure fuck it

[marble hemlock]

@balmy condor if you had to fight a human-sized swan, how would you try and beat it?

[balmy condor]

what does human sized mean

like top of head matches the top of my head

[novel star]

copeee

[balmy condor]

or are we measuring from shoulders

or what

swans are pretty big

[marble hemlock]

Height wise

[balmy condor]

so like a 2x sized swan

[novel star]

dont swans have little pussy spaghetti necks