assassination

[steel ridge]

and since 0.1% contains puggers, those puggers will do the 12+ no doubt, maybe not this week

but they will do it

[zenith cedar]

Title is usually 1-2 off the max level keys

Right now cut off is like all 11s with 2-3 12s mixed in

[steel ridge]

people underestimate the impact 15 more ilvls will have

and dungeons nerfs

[grim jay]

Ye like grim batol nerfs basically made it easy af aswell

And 15 ilvl is huge

For many even closer to 20 ilvl

[normal kindle]

Well they put the ilvl progress longer than usual and harder than previous extension... not need 30 more crest to craft a 636 and more crest overall to raise gear ...

Not sure if the community will either leave or take it

[grim jay]

Pretty good they did that

Gearing was piss easy and fast

[steel ridge]

gearing is more down to earth now and its good that way

allows them to tune the raid hard and nerf it simple by gear progression

cause it feels better to beat the raid because you grew stronger rather than the bosses weaker.

[grim jay]

Ye time investment probably is a good middle ground of what it was before and df systems

[normal kindle]

Problem is the 519 cap if you cant do MM raid and +9 then ... u are stuck

[grim jay]

You get mythic crests in hc

[steel ridge]

if you cannot do +9 with 619

you are MEANT TO BE STUCK

[grim jay]

And what nera said

[steel ridge]

jesus you can do +9 at 590

[normal kindle]

Clearly i m not in that situation as i started +9 and MM raid

[ripe carbon]

wats 'mm' mean?

[normal kindle]

Mythic Raid

[runic hinge]

mythic mode

[steel ridge]

the whole 619 4/6 stuck argument is an absolute nothing burger

people complaining they cannot get mythic crests are not meant to have them, period.

[ripe carbon]

ah ok. i was tryna figure out why two Ms

[normal kindle]

@steel ridge Not for the overall population haha

[steel ridge]

the overall population does delves

and world quests

[normal kindle]

Well delve is good personnally did that to gear my alts

EZ and Fast

at like 580 ish ilvl

[steel ridge]

and delves allow you to gear up to 619 over time

which is more than any open world player ever had access to

[grim jay]

A guildie of mine currently doesnt raid mythic because hes moving to a different city, had no mythic vault slot and did no 9s, still has like 615 or 616 ilvl since end of last ID

[steel ridge]

and if said open world player wants to dabble in end game content (+9 or mythic raid) the acquirable gear is more than adequate for that content

[fair yew]

Hey guys! I am confused about the Bis Tier for Assa, wowhead says the 5 tier pieces are the bis but only 4 is what it requires, right? So the question then is, where you break it?

[ripe carbon]

ive not done over +4s and im like 615ilvl

[grim jay]

5th piece is stats

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[runic hinge]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

BiS lists are not helpful towards gearing yourself. In order for BiS items to truly be BiS, all items in the list have to be obtained at that level exactly, or else it doesn't make sense. Missing a socket for example would shift your stats slightly. You should always compare your gear through top gear or droptimizer instead.

Pre-raid or Pre-season BiS is especially not helpful, and we do not have any of them. These are absolute meaningless bait for gear that you will be replacing the moment the season comes out. Use Top Gear/Droptimizer to compare against your character

[grim jay]

Tier pieces arent inherently weaker than any other non set piece

[runic hinge]

chest might be the "worst" stats but it's still good and fine to wear

[zenith cedar]

How is Assasination looking to scale later expansion currently?

[fair yew]

I got all 5 so this is what I asked, but I guess I would need to simulate

[grim jay]

Indeed

[fair yew]

Thank you all ❤️

[steel ridge]

ask your crystal ball

[grim jay]

Ye, Whispyr runs chest

I do

[zenith cedar]

Thanks for the informative answer

[runic hinge]

i don't cause i haven't gotten one yet

[steel ridge]

your welcome, no one knows what assassination will be like in 11.3 man

[grim jay]

I have all 5 but the head kinda sims lower for my setup

[steel ridge]

we could be bottom tier, mid tier, top tier, everything is possible

[grim jay]

Scaling is a meme and dead

They balance frequently

[zenith cedar]

You can extrapolate current specs performance with end-expansion ilvl stats which is what I was getting at. That helps determine how specs scale at different gear levels

[steel ridge]

generally assassination "scales" well with all kind of stats

[grim jay]

Yeah and get nothing

Because of what I said above

[runic hinge]

assa loves all stats so we scaling

[steel ridge]

but that doesnt say anything about tuning cycles

[runic hinge]

4 sure

write that down tonynugz said "we scaling 4 sure"

[steel ridge]

so extrapolating is worth as much as the paper you write the number on

[grim jay]

They balance way too frequently for that meme of scaling to have any relevancy

Specs can even end up with 40% aura buff

[runic hinge]

WE SCALING

4

SURE

[wraith scarab]

Writes that down.

[runic hinge]

how long is NA maintence tomorrow?

any gueses

I want to know how long to sleep in

[zenith cedar]

Class discords make Elitist Jerks of the old days look like a whole nother world

[wraith scarab]

Last week was 6 hours or so...

[grim jay]

Dont hurt the NA crowd like that

[runic hinge]

I am NA it's 4:10 am

[wraith scarab]

I'm definitely sleeping in this time.

[grim jay]

Well its a question that by logic doesnt need to get asked at all

[steel ridge]

this

[turbid oasis]

!ui

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[grim jay]

Scaling would only be a thing if they did no tuning after the initial balancing at the start of the xpac

[zenith cedar]

"by logic" lol Right on man. Surely how a spec scales with stats is not pertinent information because there "may" be tuning to how that scaling happens

[runic hinge]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[runic hinge]

enjoy big dawg

[grim jay]

No

It isnt because there WILL be tuning

Its a guarantee

[zenith cedar]

Yes, and does tuning change how core abilities interact with stats? Or does it just change numbers?

[runic hinge]

they are updating how BM scales with mastery in the morning

so yeah

it does

[grim jay]

@balmy condor oh mighty man of numbers, is scaling through out an expac impactful in any way

[steel ridge]

dont try to outsmart this topic... way overthinking this.

[balmy condor]

I mean yes, but no

assa scales like 8% better than sub for example over the course of an expansion

but it doesn't really matter at all

cause like you wake up on a tuesday

and assa does 5% more

or you wake up on a random tuesday in november

and twist the knife got reworked

[zenith cedar]

This is kind of the information I'm looking for. Is there a place where I can dig into the numbers myself?

Is this better asked in the TC threads>

[balmy condor]

you can go sim it if you'd like

[steel ridge]

this is information that gets twisted and community perception morphs it into some kind of religion

[balmy condor]

but it's a fruitless endeavor that bears no answers

[steel ridge]

"i cannot play sub late expansion since it scales worse than assassination"

[balmy condor]

like actually what does it matter if assa gains 1% on sub over 25 item levels

[steel ridge]

its absolutely useless informatioin

[balmy condor]

blizzard just slaps an aura buff on the spec

and calls it a day

"all abilities do 3% more damage"

[grim jay]

I mean its exactly what you got told. I said it exists but isnt relevant due to frequent tuning and would only be a thing worth noting if there was no balancing after a certain point

[balmy condor]

scaling benefit eliminated

[grim jay]

No reason to call us elitists

[zenith cedar]

Sorry I'm showing my age, Elitist Jerks was a reference not an insult 🙂

[runic hinge]

Zar!!!

[zenith cedar]

It's an old TC forum for boomers

[steel ridge]

well you implied this discord is worse than EJ was years back

[balmy condor]

the best you get out of running numbers to find some magical scaling ups and downs is "nice, neat. Oh well" and then you move on

[grim jay]

I didnt even know it was an actual thing

[balmy condor]

doesn't even need to be tuning

walk into next tier, assa "scales" 3% harder

but sub tier is 10% and assa tier is 7%

[zenith cedar]

Yeah that's all I was looking for. I suppose messing with sim craft and cranking up ilvls will get me the answers I need

[balmy condor]

then what

I mean answer to what though

like what is the info you seek

[zenith cedar]

Just personal curiosity

[half tartan]

/platter

[balmy condor]

I could save you the trouble I think

hold

[grim jay]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[worthy surge]

@balmy condor hello mate with your plater profile is there a way i can make the diffrent colours brighter at all thanks 🙂

[balmy condor]

change the colors in the options of the mod

[tawny geyser]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1283842520308256858/image.png

[junior yoke]

Hello, guys what website do you use to see the most played talents?

[runic hinge]

Wowhead

[cobalt sphinx]

are you asking about keys or raid

raid it's warcraftlogs

[junior yoke]

Nah. I mean websites like archon qnd all this

Noo, m+

[runic hinge]

Whisp how many hours of maintenance

[cobalt sphinx]

murlok tries to give good data

[zenith cedar]

m+ I would look at the top 5-10 rogue players in aggregate

[cobalt sphinx]

i don't know how accurate it is

yeah murlok is okayish

[junior yoke]

I’ll take a look, I heard about archon but wasn’t so good but I don’t know about this

Thank u

[cobalt sphinx]

a lot of those aggregate websites can be misleading

[crimson tiger]

was gon say murlok . io myself

[vestal wren]

think the 2nd tier typically has a okay 2p but a almost 0% 4p

would work again to keep subtlety as the early week raiding spec

and useless after people get gear

[cunning needle]

dw brotherman, i understood elitist jerks

[zenith cedar]

lets face it im washed

[cunning needle]

same

[steel ridge]

you guys older than me?

[balmy prism]

we all old

🧓🏻

[cunning needle]

do you get your information from mmo-champion or wowhead?

[steel ridge]

twitter

[balmy prism]

I get carpal tunnel trying to play retri because I have to press the buttons so fast

[cunning needle]

get better binds

[balmy prism]

Literally spamming F

[cunning needle]

unironically

[balmy prism]

you only have one key more or less in aoe

[cunning needle]

i had to change divine storm to something easier to press

[balmy prism]

😦

Gonna try to bind it to scroll wheel lol

[cunning needle]

pressing divine storm 7 times in a row though

is acutally such peak gameplay

fuck all this bleeds

and maintance of buffs

[balmy prism]

haha indeed, especially when you've been sweating on your rogue for a couple of hours

[cunning needle]

divine storm just go brrrrr

[zenith cedar]

Honor Amongst Thieves Eviscerate isn't real, it cannot hurt you

[cunning needle]

yep turn brain off and jus tpress whatever button you want on your keyboard

[balmy prism]

and still outdps an assa rogue in most pulls

[tough trail]

any1 of u got a clean plater profile? Im a noob with addons and its tracking too much shit

[zenith cedar]

double 1.4 sword shiv only spec isn't real, it cannot hurt you

[cunning needle]

!plater

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[kindred hinge]

Please don't remind me of dark times

It's up there with Scorpids BM hunter

[zenith cedar]

Steady Shot macro was goated

[kindred hinge]

Not when Scorpids poison did 70% of yoru damage

[balmy prism]

any of you played ascension? one of the top dps build was bound to scrollwheel and go brrr

[zenith cedar]

The Naxx shiv spec was one of the most degenrate playstyles ive ever experienced surely

[balmy condor]

aight I have some eldritch horrors from yonder years past (bit outdated) for you that took me quite a bit of effort to dig up, these shall not be used for evil or misinformation and just to feed your curiosity or we're gonna have problems
legion tomb of sarg
bfa eternal palace
there's been changes of course with dragonflight and stuff, but probably gives you an idea of how it was constructed and analyzed and you can go forth on your own pilgrimage of infinite data sheets good luck

[zenith cedar]

oh wow, thank you so much, this is awesome, i will report back

[steel ridge]

whispyr just opened the book of the damned

[zenith cedar]

If you look at the mirror in the dark and say Adriana three times fast a 639 dagger will magically appear in your bags trust

[midnight mist]

wtf outlaw sucks !

[steel ridge]

zac, dont listen to them

you are a cute baguette

[midnight mist]

this is no longer true when .5 drops

[steel ridge]

pls tell me acro comes back

[midnight mist]

no

but they delete er

so outlaw isnt even fun anymore

[steel ridge]

ye, rip ER

my beloved

[undone flame]

is the new sims today or tomorrow?

[runic hinge]

I bet you still play outlaw in .0.5

[brisk plank]

whats tldr of new er? complete rework?

[midnight mist]

ye wtf am i gonna play

sin ?

[steel ridge]

kekw

zac gets ripping anxiety looking at dot timers

[midnight mist]

press shiv, your next 2 finishers are buffed to act as if they consumed +2cps

[runic hinge]

New sub without dust

[steel ridge]

looking forward to new sub

but i dont wanna be in transmitter prison

[midnight mist]

"new"

[runic hinge]

Yeah I have a transmitter but that thing is wack

JUMP 3 TIMES

[steel ridge]

well sub being 90 seconds burst without doing spreadsheets is new.

[midnight mist]

ye i mean

its just brew sub, aka what sub has been since i started the game

but on 1 min 30

[steel ridge]

its gonna be awkward for ever since most trinkets are 2 minutes but well, it has its niches

[bronze pike]

Zinc

[tropic tundra]

could be better unless the timer goes really weird

so that we can choose between assa and sub

[runic hinge]

They’re gonna sneak in a 1:30 trinket every tier just for sub

[tropic tundra]

not that i hated smolderon sub but

thats not normal right

[bronze pike]

I’m sure it’ll be alright

[steel ridge]

as long as its not a transmitter, i am fine with that

[bronze pike]

1:30 is a neat profile to have

[tropic tundra]

ye

[midnight mist]

they should have kept dust

but make it only work on less than 1 min cds

[steel ridge]

i said i am not gonna play dust again after 2 tiers of it haunting my dreams and until now i kept that

[bronze pike]

Nah fuck dust

Honestly

Unhealthy as horrible talent

[brisk plank]

I love er but this rework isnt too bad now is it, bigger kb

No more animacharged points?

[midnight mist]

idk new er is just numbers

its not gameplay

I understand er was not liked by everyone

still is one of the most unique gameplay loop rogue had

to replace it by something entirely passive like that is a bit meh to me

[tropic tundra]

yeah i hoped they would leave it and add the new one as an alt choice

[tawny geyser]

So ER won't be castable anymore? So that means ER + SnD are going away from bars?

[tropic tundra]

right

er is just gone in the page

[midnight mist]

also, dont want to comment too much on outlaw in here, but this talent make litteraly 0 sense on that spec, especially linked to rtb

[tropic tundra]

also true

[midnight mist]

I guess er was only really played by outlaw before tho

[tawny geyser]

yea

[midnight mist]

but idk, not a fan of deleting gameplay in return of nothing

[tropic tundra]

since 10.2-prepatch

[midnight mist]

cause this new er, isnt evne worthy of a talent to me

its also a copy paste of coup btw

[tropic tundra]

would outlaw even work with that

[midnight mist]

in case you guys havent noticed

[tropic tundra]

or them just pressing sinister strike 500 more times in pain

[runic hinge]

Coup dn

[midnight mist]

its just annoying, er was basically the only bad luck protection outlaw had

you dont proc ss, well thats fine you land on an er cp anywya !

[thin oriole]

with raid build, do you use shiv only before kingsbane and the last 6 seconds of kingsbane?

when you have 2 charges that is

[midnight mist]

outside of being quite engaging gameplay imo

i dont think that new talent is interesting for sin either, maybe im wrong

only spec its ok with is sub to me

[balmy condor]

you shiv->kb and then shiv when the first runs out

[midnight mist]

can at least time sod before sec tech i guess

and you have 3 charges of sod !

[grim jay]

Still better than branch

[midnight mist]

is it

[grim jay]

Imo ye

[midnight mist]

idk branch was consistent at least, you would always do the same

you didnt even need to see the balls

[drowsy cosmos]

And when i have only one Shiv do i use it outside of KB, or only in last 8s of KB ? Thanks 🙏🏻

[balmy condor]

both

[midnight mist]

but i guess someone at blizzard is trying to win the price for the most cringe trinket design possible

think we are peaking rn with transmitter

[rotund oak]

fuk man,im exhausted already

[grim jay]

Yeah but you could potentially drag the orbs weirdly with a mechanic or something and it had varied effectiveness based on timing.

Transmitter is pretty easily visible and you can just use it before CDs you got some time to do it with the same gain every time

[midnight mist]

idk about easely visible

play it in m+

[grim jay]

Talking current trinkets, I think the raid egg trinket is worse

[midnight mist]

thing spawn into a pack i cant see it

[vagrant wagon]

what makes it "easier" is the orb or the stationary thingy always spawns north-east

so you can target it where it spawns when you position your character a little bit

[grim jay]

Ye they have a roughly consistent spawn point

[midnight mist]

i guess

[vagrant wagon]

but its still a cringe trinket ye...

[grim jay]

I only had issues in delves

[midnight mist]

idk its just so clunky to me

[grim jay]

But fuck delves

[midnight mist]

and awkard

[vagrant wagon]

i just wanna on use macro into my burst

[rotund oak]

yo dear whispyr buffs coming out today for NA aight?

[balmy condor]

yes

[midnight mist]

idk why you would design something like that

open world trinket on god

[rotund oak]

will we have any actual numbers for those or we gotta wait?

raidbots looks weird

[midnight mist]

wait till they are in

[bronze pike]

Fuck transmitter

[grim jay]

Dont you despise the mercurial egg? Like the standing still and moving stacking different buffs is just peak delusional gameplay

[midnight mist]

simc will be updated

[midnight mist]

I dont because 1 its a bad trinket 2 its a bad trinket

[grim jay]

They buffed it

Idk if its that bad anymore

[midnight mist]

cant buff it enough

maybe if i was a caster

i would be worried

[grim jay]

Like on enh I think its bis

[midnight mist]

but im not a caster

ye if you are a delusional enhancer

not moving as a melee

sure buddy

[soft shale]

casters have spymasters

coral but better because it is on you

oh and it also auto stacks no need to hit anything

100/100 trink

meanwhile melee have transmitter

oh and mandate

[grim jay]

Wait bloodmallet has transmitter as 2nd best on outlaw 5 targets?

[soft shale]

big agi low cd

[midnight mist]

no it doesnt

bloodmallet is just useless

cause haste

breakpoints

what a wolrd we live in right

[tropic tundra]

bloodmallet is literally watching someone else's sim result page

when you can see yours

[midnight mist]

yours wont be accurate either

unless you are somewhat smart

[tropic tundra]

as if I can loot a trinket at first

[midnight mist]

which i dont expect from 90% of the users

[tropic tundra]

[grim jay]

The question is what youll reach first

The haste break point

Or your break point

[tropic tundra]

or my bank account's break

[storm hedge]

I just died to NW first boss' frontal with cloak up... wtf

[midnight mist]

first second is imune

[true drum]

The haste break turns in at how much %?

[midnight mist]

rest is just spell resist and dont work on as many things

[soft shale]

you need to hit cloak as cast ends or at least has 1 sec left

[grim jay]

Its outlaw not sin

[grim jay]

Just feint

[midnight mist]

you can first second cloak mist fear, sikran sweep, adn first boss nw frontal

[grim jay]

Like a true m+er

[midnight mist]

dont just feint

[true drum]

Okay thanks. I was wondering

[midnight mist]

you will die

[grim jay]

No lol

[midnight mist]

ok

[grim jay]

Feint with elusiveness was fine on an 11

[midnight mist]

mf feinting when it will one shot you

while you can just

evasion or cloak it

smartest m+ er

[grim jay]

^

You dont always have every CD up either

[midnight mist]

prolly got lucky

[soft shale]

caught in 4k playing with a shaman and having 20% extra hp

[midnight mist]

what that website

[soft shale]

balanced spec

[midnight mist]

for damage

[grim jay]

Dont expose me

[midnight mist]

I think you die in 11

with only feint

what is the website

[soft shale]

yes it does around 6.1 mil

[grim jay]

Idk I always have a shaman

[soft shale]

but as seen abocve

[midnight mist]

[soft shale]

20% extra hp

balanced

[midnight mist]

someone answer

[grim jay]

Uh

[soft shale]

no idea about the page

[grim jay]

Im thinking

[midnight mist]

you guys know what im talking about

[soft shale]

yea but i have something else i use

but i know that page exists

same as dolphin hate one

[midnight mist]

https://not-even-close.com/

ok you are lucky

also its aoe apparently

so elus isnt even needed

you die in a 12 tho

[grim jay]

Ha

[midnight mist]

you are cutting it close

[grim jay]

Id still survive on 12

[strange python]

How big are the buffs tomorrow?

[grim jay]

With my stats

With shaman max hp

Or priest buff

[midnight mist]

bro

[grim jay]

[midnight mist]

you litteraly have 2 imunes

just press them

xd

keeping them for when the key is a 20 or what

[grim jay]

I sometimes get really unlucky

And get targeted 3 times

[midnight mist]

play outlaw

i can evasion every one of them

[fallen arch]

Hunter buffs?

[midnight mist]

[deep wave]

dont get unlucky????

[strange python]

Rog xD

[fallen arch]

[deep wave]

also

[grim jay]

Fucking based

[deep wave]

spec feint over CD

[grim jay]

I do

[deep wave]

im not a good rogue but i know +13 and higher you get 1 shotted by every basic attack that hits you

ive seen throw flesh 1 tapping rogues

[grim jay]

But its aoe either way

[midnight atlas]

m+ is very "good" this patch

[grim jay]

It is indeed

[midnight mist]

ye

very well balanced aswell

[midnight atlas]

all i got to do is a 10 stonevault for portal and i cba, going delves to farm transmogs

[deep wave]

what portal

[midnight atlas]

you get portals for timing 10s

[grim jay]

Balance in all things

Which ever League champ has that line

[midnight atlas]

teleports actually not portals if you want to get technical

[raven panther]

If I have the choice for my 4 mythique track part, for the super long term, what are the 4 part I want out of the 5 ? Or I dont really care ?

[grim jay]

Yes

[deep wave]

is SnD a big dps boost or just energy farm?

[grim jay]

Big boost

Bcs deathstalker and KB

And high AA damage

[midnight atlas]

its dps ofc.

[mystic osprey]

Always SnD brother

[raven panther]

• poison + proc + enchant it's just huge dps boost

[pastel ermine]

m+ sucks this season your capped at +11s in pugs

[raven panther]

mm+ push exist only at the end of the seaosn when you are full gear, there is no reason to push now, since in 1 month you will just have 10 more ilvl for free

[spring sigil]

I haven't managed to complete a 10 yet. Only 9 keys I've had so far are siege and stonevault and never managed to time one yet 😭

[kindred hinge]

The pleasure of playing?

Of beating stuff with lower ilvl?

[raven panther]

It's not what he is talking about

he is talking about pushing

[kindred hinge]

It does.

You are not capped because you can't go higher

[midnight mist]

[kindred hinge]

You are capped because there is no key available

[pastel ermine]

regardless the gap between 11>12s is too big

[midnight atlas]

pushing should be consistant, if you dont push every week, you'll lack score and experience even if you got gear. ppl wont take you

[raven panther]

because you can't get your key 12, doesn't means other can't

[midnight mist]

well you are capped because the jump between keys is too hgh, people either give up playing, or just cant

[kindred hinge]

That's not even relevant.

[spring sigil]

I'm stuck with a siege 8 at the minute that literally no one applies for 😅

Had queue up for 40 minutes and had maybe 6 dps apply

[midnight atlas]

lie that it's a 7 in lfg and then boom. by the time they realize its an 8 its too late

[fallen arch]

There’s no reason to do 8s though

[agile gull]

8 is absolutely a dead key

[fallen arch]

U either do a 7 or a 9

[agile gull]

1-6 and 8 are dead

[grim jay]

There is value in going as far as you can as early as you can, fun aside

[fallen arch]

So u’re better off lowering it to a 7 and 2chest it

[cinder pebble]

What would be the right big AOE opener?
Ambush, Gar, gar, rapt, rapt, Mult, SnD, Fan, Env, Fan, Tempest?
Where am I wrong because the first pull in Necro im like 2% of the mage/dk/WL dps

[spring sigil]

Not had any teams 2 chesting much of anything this week unfortunately

[midnight atlas]

nah, bro, list it as 7, and then in dungeon put the 8. i did that many times and some groups didnt even see, and if they do they play

[grim jay]

Can just +2 a 8

And have a 10

[midnight atlas]

you can say i forgot to downgrade

[spring sigil]

And especially not a siege

[fallen arch]

Yes but nobody applies to an 8

[pastel ermine]

you dont know pain until you pug +12s

[fallen arch]

Thatms the thing

[grim jay]

Thats cap

[fallen arch]

Pugging 9s and 10s is painful enough for me too

[fallen arch]

Siege can go fuck itself

[kindred hinge]

Check the faq, and depends on key level no point looking at that pack when everything die in 2 second in 10 and lower

[spring sigil]

I get people leaving siege keys if someone breathes wrong

[charred obsidian]

pretty sure someone cleared a 14

[cinder pebble]

yeah around +9/10

[grim jay]

Its not like an 8 will take you noticeably longer than a 7 if you are just farming gear

[fallen arch]

True

I’m not saying its reasonable

[spring sigil]

And then stonevault i explain what to do with the crystals on third boss and they still get bursted down at once 😅

[fallen arch]

Ppl are just braindead

[grim jay]

Yeah some group did all the 14s

[spring sigil]

Why couldn't i had a +8 arakara 😅

Don't even need the damn trinket

[grim jay]

Stone vault is probably the one key I would never pug

[wraith scarab]

Is fate bound and DS very similar in output?

[grim jay]

The dungeon is shit and annoying, pugs just add onto it

[spring sigil]

I really like stonevault besides Skaramok

[kindred hinge]

Spent way too much time in SV 11 pugs to validate it. Between the affix this week that people have no idea how to play during stressfull time and Skarmorax that was more painful than GB 11 pre nerf

[spring sigil]

That boss makes it shit

[grizzled geyser]

check out zerocool on youtube, just uploaded a timed +12 NW with pugs where he blasts the first pull - he also has a timeline of what buttons he is pressing

[grim jay]

Oh no

[cinder pebble]

Gonna check. The last time I checked him we was running double vanish and thus no longer watched more ^^

[grim jay]

He is probably still running that

[grizzled geyser]

yea he does that, but that isnt relevant here

the guy pumps harder than most anyway

[cinder pebble]

According to wowhead we are doing tempest before splatter on ramping. Thought getting splatter up asap is key because of the giga strong aoe.

[grim jay]

Doesnt justify anything

[kindred hinge]

Looking at what people do in 12 is no more relevant tbh when he is doing 9s that are not fortified. The opener will be the same the efficiency will be less

[grim jay]

Spatter does nothing if you dont use your skills into it

[kindred hinge]

Tempest stonk

[grizzled geyser]

pls dont start this, the guy had a question as basic as the right way to play aoe and he does that well there, thats all im saying

[grim jay]

Just dont use weird stuff to justify something else, I didnt talk about the aoe itself

[midnight atlas]

man strays away from the best simming build - this whole discord gets mad.
let the dude play

[cunning needle]

reminder that old mate zerocool has come in here to say don't copy him

[kindred hinge]

Btw remember that you only ambush the first pack and will rarely press ambush in keys afterward unless wypes

[grim jay]

Which he probably is doing right

[deep wave]

use hekili addon if youre unsure what is appropriate

[cunning needle]

no dont use hekili

its bad

just read wowhead

[deep wave]

why is it bad

[cunning needle]

and have it on a second monitor

then hit dummies

[grim jay]

Because it tells you wrong things

[cunning needle]

^

[kindred hinge]

Hekili is only good in no decision making class like rets

Absolutely trash on eeverything else

[cunning needle]

yeah

[grim jay]

It works on some stuff but definitely not on rogue

[midnight atlas]

as if ret needs hekili, you press the button that glows anyway

[cinder pebble]

Was just wondering why in his pov he wen splatter into burst over tempest. ^^

[grim jay]

I honestly dont think it matters too much at all

[kindred hinge]

Darkest night procs ?

[strange python]

I hate ret pallies so much

[cunning needle]

embrace the divine storm

[deep wave]

does it not pull the exact dps-max choice from APL?

[cinder pebble]

Or wont reapply rupture and instead just spamming env ^^

[midnight atlas]

i never take ret pala or hunter for my pugs.

[deep wave]

i understand having to maintain cooldowns for other packs or different targets but you reserve your own decision making there

[cunning needle]

why?

ret pal is so mongo bongo

you cant fuck it up

[kindred hinge]

Why ? Ret will dps regardless of skills while other class like mage are usually dogs

[grim jay]

Who are you talking about in the pov

[strange python]

Cause they only do dmg they don’t so mechanics

[cunning needle]

no you dont understand

their rotation is so mongo

they can do mechanics

[brisk plank]

As caustic is at our #1 dps output i dont see how it can be wrong to just send one mutilate before ct, if it even makes much diff

[midnight atlas]

i like how you're defending ret but nobody said shit about hunter xD

[cunning needle]

fuck hunters

[cinder pebble]

Good point. Watching the wrong video lol ... warrior brain

[strange python]

The ones I’ve had in my pugs don’t 😞

[cunning needle]

get me in chief

[grim jay]

Whispyr said definitely not from his apl the last time he got asked. Rogue has some fluid decisionmaking to do overall tho

[cunning needle]

yeah okay now warriors

they are a class you never invite

ive never run with a good pug warrior this season

and i have invited way too many of them

[kindred hinge]

Warrior aug Rogue in NW allows for some nutty overall

[deep wave]

ok but solely as a dps rotation tool, it literally just follows wowhead rotation in like 99% of situations

[grim jay]

I mean caustic doesnt really do much if you dont envenom or kb, but ye, probably not much of a diff

[cunning needle]

yes, but have you also considered that augvokers are an acutal cancer on the game and should be deleted?

fuck aug

[kindred hinge]

Because a key is not perfect rotation and basta. You need to chose when to do utility and etc and hekili is bad at tracking what to do when you go off script

[cunning needle]

yeah

[kindred hinge]

No argument here, don't even like playing with aug

[grim jay]

Idk how it is now, but Whispyr said its wrong often and he does coaching, sometimes having people there that used hekili

[cunning needle]

hekili may not be bad in ST

but in aoe

[strange python]

What’s wrong with aug

[cunning needle]

everyting is so fluid

[cinder pebble]

Now talking about zerocool. Any reason to preuse Tea for the mastery in aoe?

[cunning needle]

your details meter is useless for one

also it being a perma requirement for m+ is also toxic af

but mainly the details thing

[deep wave]

fair enough, i still think its decent if ur just booting up rogue now, and not like you'd use hekili if you actually become good with your class

[grim jay]

You can only use it for mastery, you are stacked on energy in aoe either way. I usually dont really do that tho, unless I have big pulls or am about to cap

[midnight atlas]

you can pop a tea at the last 6s of your kb + shiv

[strange python]

I have Deathmark and Skardyns grace macro’d together, both on a 2 minute cooldown. Sometimes the CD’s desync resulting in skardyns still having ~10s of CD when I pop the next Deathmark - what’s going on?

[kindred hinge]

When a class is mandatory to do higher stuff it is not fun.

[midnight atlas]

affix

[strange python]

I hear u

[deep wave]

yeah but thats the case for any class, hekili will tell you to pop all your burst into that 3% last remaining mob, if you actually do that its on you

[strange python]

Haha true

[cunning needle]

it's so shit on prog when you are adjusting abilities in your opener

its like, did i pop off? or did aug just buff me harder

[grim jay]

I personally would learn faster not using it at all, because I tend to just get behind things and the why's, which hekili doesnt really help with

[strange python]

A little bit of both

[kindred hinge]

If you have a brain and don't follow hekili here why would you even need it ? Not like any class on wow requires more than 30 min on dumies

[strange python]

Ahhh thank you!

[cunning needle]

yeah but i can't tell

whats good or not

[deep wave]

i will say however hekili is VERY stuck up in its own ass with using vanish offensively for rogue, and it kinda ruins it

[cunning needle]

like i may as well just delete details

in raid

fuck aug

[grim jay]

Just kick your aug

Best solution

[deep wave]

there is nobody stopping you doing both, read the rotation, and then have hekili give you recommandations, which no one forces you to input

[cinder pebble]

thats usually where I put it but the zerocool povs are giving me questions as newb assa 😄
Like not reapplying dots on the targets. Just mandatory if energy starved? https://youtu.be/-xTHcp9ibIo?si=U8ePlnKG7-o70WBT&t=52
At this timestamp I would ve reapplied gar and rup to at least 2 more targets before sticking to the main target again

[cunning needle]

/cancelaura prescience
/cancelaura ebon mighit
/cancelaura power infusion

don't do drugs kids

[grim jay]

It would just distract me personally, I can see people getting some use out of it tho

[grim jay]

Dont do augs kids

[cunning needle]

[midnight atlas]

Nobody plays the game perfectly, if you start checking every decisions of every player you will find things you dont agree with.
the only questions is: did they time the key?

[grim jay]

You dont reapply or spread garrote in aoe, only main target. You wanna have 5 ruptures out for scent stacks at all times

[strange python]

Seeing 8m dps is so crazy 😭

[fallen arch]

Why is that crazy

[strange python]

Cause I haven’t seen it yet

[kindred hinge]

Wait until you see a DK at 15+

[fallen arch]

I have seen warriors spike fucking 15m

[deep wave]

for me it was much easier to preview any dps rotation w/ hekili than look at a list of 15 priority IF and IF NOTs spells

ran like 2 keys with it and i got comfortable enough to just stop using it

[midnight atlas]

i did 6m at max, nw 1st pull.

[fallen arch]

Or those fuckers too

[strange python]

You’re probably doing high keys I’m stuck at like 5s-7s rn

[deep wave]

boosted my dps by like 30% too

[midnight atlas]

and stonevault as well. 5.5m

[strange python]

Unholy Dks are so cool

[kindred hinge]

Wrong tree

[grim jay]

He probably had PI and his group didnt really blast either

[strange python]

I know u mean frost but I’m just saying

[midnight atlas]

zerocool stream last evening was dope, man shaved his hair to shower faster, every tank was dogshit, priest was giving pi to dk with 0 cds. amazing comedy

[grim jay]

On my 10s and 11s in NW the small ones usually dont live past like 2s of my CDs

Bcs there are 2 other people blasting

[grizzled geyser]

he shaved his head?

[midnight atlas]

he's pitbul now

[strange python]

What classes do you usually take

[grizzled geyser]

lmao for real? on stream?

[midnight atlas]

nah, before. he just showed up like that. said he wastes 1hr taking a shower and drying his hair. so he shaved it so he can do more m+

[grim jay]

Depends, mostly a mix of fury/shammy/mage/dk

[steel ridge]

kekw

[deep wave]

you know

[royal lantern]

if that is a real reason and not a meme, he should get Professional help 🙂

[deep wave]

double vanish might actually be optimal for higher keys

just so you can swap targeting

[royal lantern]

wdym swap targets

[deep wave]

also more garrote

[kindred hinge]

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why stealth benefits aren't as important as you might think:

• Garrote is roughly 10-12% of people's damage in a key, most of which is already empowered/cleaved
• Most energy spreading will come from Rupture to maintain scent of blood, not garrote
• Without a Trace (+1 vanish charge) only grants roughly 2 additional casts across a whole dungeon
• While Without a Trace can allow for better vanish timings, the difference in damage provided is at most replacing a non-stealth opener with a stealth opener (you aren't necessarily getting "added" casts, just "better" casts)
• You can argue that it "feels bad", but numerically there is very little ground to stand on, the dps simply isn't there.

[grim jay]

Sounds like someone not using a hairdryer because iTs BaD fOr HaIr

[deep wave]

i misspoke, meant to say you can make mobs stop targeting you

[grim jay]

[deep wave]

so you dont die to unkickable casts

[grim jay]

You get 1 or 2 extra vanishes

In a whole key

Its literally dead

[midnight atlas]

ofc it's meme.

[grim jay]

It might not even get taken over 1 lethality if subter would be insane with the changes

[deep wave]

it can be pretty bad, you need to keep it at a distance and never keep hot air in 1 place for too long

[grim jay]

Heatprotectant, proper distancing and not dozing off

Ye

And a good hairdryer

Just spend 100 instead of 20

[agile geode]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[static glacier]

The shaving fix is a tier though

[midnight atlas]

i got long hair and never dry it, i just go out with it wet, i dont give a fuck,. its dry in 10 min

[static glacier]

No more expensive haircuts or product use

I buzzed my hair down about a month ago, still chilling

[grim jay]

Idk if you like your hair and just do it for faster showering to spam more keys its weird

[grim jay]

20€ every 3 weeks for a cut

[midnight atlas]

ppl take everything literally these days. the shave for keys its a meme wtf.

[pine zephyr]

is whetstone best for both single and aoe ?

[grim jay]

You never know if people run 40 keys a day

[grim jay]

Yes

[pine zephyr]

thanks

[static glacier]

😂

[static glacier]

20 euros is a decent price, in the uk it can get more expensive for sure

I remember when I had long hair I had a whole routine for it

including the cut etc it was pricy, getting it dyed also cost a bunch

faster showering is funny af, irl optimisation

[grim jay]

@royal lantern would you be surprised if a guy spam pushing 40 keys a day would try to save time on necessities to get more done?

[grim jay]

Yeah depending on what you do it can get expensive ig

[steel ridge]

i bought an electrical hairtrimmer 15 years ago, never spent any money for a haircut ever again

[fast mural]

Did simc updated with the new buffs?

[strange python]

Ur so true, Having long hair adds like +3 min to a shower. 😞

[grim jay]

I have one for my beard anyways, but investing my own time into cutting my hair isnt worth saving 20 €

[steel ridge]

dont have to leave the house

[grim jay]

Id do that if I had really short hair tho

[grim jay]

I always go after work, its on the way

[static glacier]

I think it's the drying that can take a bunch

[grim jay]

Yeah if you only use a towel to pad it

Or just spin your head really fast

It can take quite a while

My hair luckily is only longer on the top, takes like 2 or 3 min with a hairdryer

Including beard

[south token]

!vanish

[prisma monolith]

Vanish->Ambush during cooldowns with Darkest Night up has two main benefits:

• Getting more mark uptime by reapplying when it's down
• Consuming Darkest Night then puts you from 3 stacks of the mark down to 2 since the mark is already applied

As of September 13th with the Echoing Reprimand Fix, that second part is broken. Blizzard inadvertantly added a bug where you cannot consume mark stacks while darkest night is active. This will hopefully get resolved quickly as it is quite impactful. Until that time, you might want to consider taking improved garrote in your single target build (instead of 1 point of vicious venoms, or instead of improved poison). You do not have to do this, and if you would like to continue to play without improved garrote, you would simply hold onto your vanish in case you drop the mark. Once the bug is fixed you would go back to vanish->ambush.

[grizzled geyser]

I dont get this, why wouldnt I open with ambush on a new pack? whats the alternative? I just got reminded of reading this comment earlier after seeing the !vanish post

[iron ivy]

How does everyone here clear the affix of this week? Do you apply dots or only use envenom

[grim jay]

You open with ambush on the first pack to apply deathstalker marks

And optimally youd play darkest night afterwards

[still stirrup]

If you already have DN you dont need to ambush again (if you have enough time to use it)

[grim jay]

Some people still open with ambush all the time, which is why he reminded him

[warm vortex]

I think he means why would you garrote over ambush?

*over

Autocorrect tf

[iron ivy]

Arr me ambush

[fickle light]

does anyone have a good plater addon that shows if a target is ruptured?

[blazing pumice]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[grim jay]

Plater is the addon

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[grim jay]

Has 2 good profiles

[ripe carbon]

u can find profiles on wago.io

[warm vortex]

Went full rogue there

[ripe carbon]

i just made my own profile and added rupture/garrote/CT etc. in it

[warm vortex]

Me ambush
Me stab
Me make leak red

[ripe carbon]

in buff tracking

[warm vortex]

Tbh I just use no hud mods

I like use details, DBM, have one WA and that’s it

[fickle light]

is rupture under debuff?

[warm vortex]

And simc

No it’s a HoT

[ripe carbon]

u either set to manual and add debuffs/buffs - or set to automatic and remove stuff u dont want

rupture is a debuff

[grim jay]

Whispyrs and cevs profile are probably better than what most people with "limited" plater knowledge could do themself, just saying. They are optimized for sin

[ripe carbon]

i should say automatic mode, u add stuff to list that u dont want to show

ya prob easier to use their profiles

[grim jay]

I could do without WAs probably, but no nameplate addon would be griefing for me

[warm vortex]

Haha fair

Only WA I have is to track CTW

Or CtS

Whatever it’s called

[blazing pumice]

there's no virtue in not running addons, wow base ui is dogshit

[warm vortex]

Meh, I don’t really have any massive problems with it so I don’t see a need to change it personally

[grim jay]

You mean the fok buff after applying marks right?

[warm vortex]

Yea

[grim jay]

Thats CTW ye

[grim jay]

Well you save resources

[blazing pumice]

it's a 20 year old game

[grim jay]

So only running what you need is kinda good

[grim jay]

Yeah and optimized like one

Whispyr just changed one little detail in his pack and it got him like 30 or more fps back

[warm vortex]

I mean I do make mistakes still a bit but that’s not anyone’s fault but mine

Like forgetting CT on some packs somehow

[blazing pumice]

yes, that is what a ui is for

so you don't forget to cast abilities

[grizzled geyser]

why is that bad though? assuming i have darkest night proc and need to finish with a 7cp envenom now to apply new marks - when I open on a new pack, if I ambush anyway, i have marks right away, and benefit from the effects immediatly

usually you spread ruptures and garrotes first and it would a take a while for the first envenom to even come out, to apply marks again?

especially when you wanna get out CT as well?

[grim jay]

You need to use a 7cp envenom anyways unless you plan on not getting a single DN for the whole duration

[grizzled geyser]

huh? but after all garrotes, ruptures and CT

[grim jay]

The marks dont get consumed if you have DN up

[warm vortex]

But shouldn’t that be something you remember as a player?

[blazing pumice]

no

[grizzled geyser]

but all my autos hit for more plague damage etc

[blazing pumice]

your ui should be reducing the amount of thinking you have to do as a player

[warm vortex]

At its core, you are correct

[grizzled geyser]

also what do I press instead of ambush thats so much better? garrote right away?

[blazing pumice]

i don't sit there counting how long i have left on kb until i shiv, i literally have a sound blurt it out

[warm vortex]

So in that case it does make sense, sorry I was incorrect

[warm vortex]

I do rn haha

[still stirrup]

Yes, or rupture if you have the cp

[warm vortex]

Like it’s getting into muscle memory at least

[grim jay]

Kinda negligible while you are still spreading dots, have no caustic running to spatter and potentially even swap targets

[still stirrup]

You want caustic up asap anyway

[grim jay]

You get faster into your CDs by a second and depending on pull you can spread once more

[still stirrup]

So get ruptures out and muti before env anyway

[grim jay]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[blazing pumice]

when you are doing high end content, you want to spend as little time thinking about your rotation as possible and devote all attention to the environment

[warm vortex]

Remind me, it’s al 3 dots then splatter right?

[warm vortex]

Yea exactly what it was like for me last night in GB 10 (yes ik that isn’t “high end” by most people but still, I didn’t get too many kicks)

[woven shore]

how is it possible that i did a +10 grim batol and still get declined on +7

wtf

[blazing pumice]

because you are a dps with no lust and no brez

and there are many dps just like you in queue

[woven shore]

in +7

._:

[kindred hinge]

veryone have Brez though? Just buy it

[crisp pine]

Yea every grim batol key above 7 has 300 people applying in 30 seconds

[woven shore]

kekw

[crisp pine]

there's a very high chance people don't even see you in there

[still stirrup]

I tend to, as imp garrote is on a timer

[quartz path]

Let's make a petition to get br or lust

[crisp pine]

You have a battle res

They're called jumper cables

and you can buy them off the auction house

[kindred hinge]

They are dirt cheap

[still stirrup]

Better to env if you have DN and spatter up before CT though I would say

[quartz path]

tell that to pug who refuse to inv

[blazing pumice]

i don't assume pugs have jumper cables when i'm inviting

[kindred hinge]

Put it in your note

[warm vortex]

Ah that makes sense

[crisp pine]

put it in your note

[iron ivy]

Hold up, what is CT

[blazing pumice]

if it's a +7 i assume they are monkeys

[warm vortex]

Tempest

[kindred hinge]

Caustic Tempest

[dim yacht]

is nelf racial for shadowmeld - empowered garrote (and carnage now too) still a thing?

[warm vortex]

The ultimate ability

[kindred hinge]

Oops

[blazing pumice]

you have to do a hard stealth before they activate

[warm vortex]

Applies caustic splatter to all crimson tempest targets

[grim jay]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps
Whispyr has graphics there, recommend having them open while learning

[blazing pumice]

and for whatever reason, some trash keeps you in combat so you can't re-stealth

[dim yacht]

can you stealth after the meld, or will you still be in combat?

ah okay

[warm vortex]

Yeye

I read it, just in class atm

And I remember it, just wanted to make sure I remembered it correctly

[blazing pumice]

i suspect that it has to do with proximity as i find melding->stealth easier when i'm away from a pack, but i don't know

[prime hull]

Are the hotfixes in raidbots?

[warm vortex]

Does meld just put you into stealth? Hate elves so I’ve never played them unless I have to

[dim yacht]

is it a noticeable benefit for keys, or just convenient?

[grim jay]

Its wrong tho

Its in the guide

You ct before you go into caustic

[still stirrup]

What is wrong?

You waste DSM stacks if you have DN already though

I am talking about having DN up before next pack

[grim jay]

Feelycrafting aint helping

Whispyr wrote the guide

He did the math

[blazing pumice]

@dim yacht i don't find myself needing the restealth that often, it's mostly only good if the tank is pulling two packs together or is chain pulling

[kindred hinge]

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why stealth benefits aren't as important as you might think:

• Garrote is roughly 10-12% of people's damage in a key, most of which is already empowered/cleaved
• Most energy spreading will come from Rupture to maintain scent of blood, not garrote
• Without a Trace (+1 vanish charge) only grants roughly 2 additional casts across a whole dungeon
• While Without a Trace can allow for better vanish timings, the difference in damage provided is at most replacing a non-stealth opener with a stealth opener (you aren't necessarily getting "added" casts, just "better" casts)
• You can argue that it "feels bad", but numerically there is very little ground to stand on, the dps simply isn't there.

[crisp pine]

I thought consuming DN lowkey had the highest priority actually

[dim yacht]

i understand the benefits (or lack there of) of restealths, i was more interested in its applications for iron wire

[still stirrup]

Yea I'm not talking about fresh opener

[warm vortex]

I thought it would be keeping your health above 0?

[crisp pine]

nah fuck that

that's the healers job

[dim yacht]

but if it doesnt work if youre right next to the pack, doesnt sound great

[blazing pumice]

meld is generally a great ability

[warm vortex]

True, anything that isn’t a one shot is a healer problem

Literally nobody else’s job

[blazing pumice]

it's just not reliable

[deep wave]

do you guys use tea for dps purposes during KB+deathmark windows?

[crisp pine]

and we have cheat death
so everythings the healers job

They should work for their money

[warm vortex]

Exactly

[dim yacht]

yeah, that makes sense. if i could choose any racial i wanted, id def use it

[blazing pumice]

considering most racials are useless

[dim yacht]

but prob dont care enough to race change

[warm vortex]

cries in goblin

[crisp pine]

forsaken racial is goated I'm sorry

[blazing pumice]

if you want optimal then you are playing dwarf or nelf

[warm vortex]

My personal bank isn’t even good

[deep wave]

whats higher prio beetween CT and DN?

[warm vortex]

Now we have warband

[crisp pine]

I don't even interrupt fears anymore

Just to feel something

[still stirrup]

Pretty sure it's gonna be env with DN

[crisp pine]

Honestly I have no clue
probably depends on pack size?
If there are 15 Mobs I'm guessing CT?
But I think you wanna get your mark back asap in almost all situations
Cause mark very good

[deep wave]

i hope trickster gets some omega buffs

because i hate mark personally

[crisp pine]

sin doesn't have trickster lmao

[deep wave]

sorry to all the mark-named guys

[warm vortex]

Use fatebound then :)

Real Flipping hours

[deep wave]

mb meant fatebound

[kindred hinge]

Hekili, double vanish, trickser, you are alright mate?

[deep wave]

coin flipping guy

[warm vortex]

Tbh I hope they make the hero trees more interesting

[crisp pine]

I'm fine if they just give us visuals
any visuals

[warm vortex]

Like I remember playing diabolist destro
That shit feels awesome

[kindred hinge]

It's the start of the XPac it is always bland to avoid powercreeping

[crisp pine]

I like the mark gameplay personally
I just wanna look cool while doing it

[kindred hinge]

We will get fun toys by the end

[warm vortex]

🤓 UM ACDHULLY WE DWO HAVE VISHUALS. WITH DREATHMAWRK ALONE, YWOU GET A PRURPLE GLOW!

[rotund oak]

goblin bounce actually not bad

if u are a shaman that is

[dim yacht]

fatebound is fine. dont get me wrong, it does suck that deathstalker is just objectively better everywhere, but its not as if fatebound isnt viable

[deep wave]

whats the dps loss in m+ for going fatebound?

i might just tank it

because i hate the mark that much

[dim yacht]

sims is your best bet. but i can tell you as someone whos doing 11s timed, fatebound is fine

[warm vortex]

Yea it’s god

[dim yacht]

deathstalker is better but fatebound works

[warm vortex]

Have made one mistake with it lately

[deep wave]

thats about all i need to know, for my own mental health i wont be pushing any higher than that

[warm vortex]

I’m first popper for heroic queen and i had one pull where i rocked jumped and barely overshot and hit the bubble

However it was the shammies fault as we had hero instead of BL that pull

[dim yacht]

yeah youll be golden then, dont stress

[warm vortex]

Nate you tried 12s yet

[rotund oak]

faatebound isnt that bad either and its carefree,u just play the game until u want something slightly stronger

[warm vortex]

If so how they go

[dim yacht]

yeah i know. ive been playing fatebound

[rotund oak]

from my sims fatebound is something like 2.5%-ish less

in both st and ds

[dim yacht]

its completely fine. its just a bit sad that we get this brand new talent shit for the xpac, and then deathstalker is just objectively better in everything

[rotund oak]

more like 3% on ds

[dim yacht]

for me, ds sims ~7% better for dungeon slice

[rotund oak]

7% actually wild

[grim jay]

Idk its kinda in the guide mate

[dim yacht]

yeah way more than expected

[deep wave]

crazy this resulted in 99% playrate over m+ logs, seen much worse hero talents with much better pickrates

[dim yacht]

the argument at the end of the day isnt whether its viable, it 100% is. just sad to see one objectively better for everything

[rotund oak]

the thing is that deathstalker isnt rly that hard to handle over smoother gameplay,its whatever rly

[dim yacht]

which as i understand it, is the case for a fair few classes

[young dust]

well rogue is far from a casual spec, it kinda makes sense

[rotund oak]

since er-dn interaction works deathtalker is pretty much the pick coz it does more dmg

[young dust]

whoever isnt up to a small challenge rerolls to retri

[subtle tundra]

retri goated?!?

[hearty reef]

Retri or fury

[rotund oak]

ild rather play hunter

no thx

[grim jay]

They shouldnt have brought way better defensives into one of the trees tbf

[young dust]

i did splits on my guild raid as retri and i felt i was unlearning how to play

its so braindead

[subtle tundra]

i felt happy

for my splits

[royal lantern]

well

fatebound is a coinflip

i dont fucking know what they expected there

nobody wants to play with literally a coinflip lol

[royal lantern]

thats such a weirdo take

[hearty reef]

I mean tails spatters so it's not that bad

[kindred hinge]

When everyone gets new stuff to play with why would you play something that is worse and offer no change in gameplay?

[hearty reef]

Problem is dropping capstone

[subtle tundra]

imagine if it was a 30 sec duration

[deep wave]

rather flip coins all day than needing to press vanish midfight just to swap 1 target

[warm vortex]

?

[deep wave]

by comparison, deathstalker plays seamlessly with sub

[subtle tundra]

would probably make it competitive to ds in m+

[hearty reef]

Or the placebo of using vanish and CB actively to fix coins when you can still drop streak at 6

[spring sigil]

Retri is ridiculous right now lol. Mate presses 4 buttons and does 3m aoe damage

[young dust]

is it though? its been known for the last few seasons to be way harder than most melee specs with rewards not that big for performing well

[deep wave]

its definitively perceived as such

but reality is

wow players arent much different from class to class

except maybe DH

[subtle tundra]

dh are the exception

[kindred hinge]

Which spec ? Outlaw is demanding and punishing, Sub was not in DF and was really good for a while. Sin today is not demanding either

[young dust]

yeah but it scared the hell out of new players

[subtle tundra]

dhs are not human

[royal lantern]

i mean

i can play Arms warrior and the gameplay bettwen cd windows is way more involved then assa/sub gameplay bettwen cd windows

[kindred hinge]

Rogue is the second to last played spec irc though, so something is not attractive

[young dust]

at the moment assa is indeed in a good spot since S4, it was bad when you had to manually spread DoTs

[subtle tundra]

no it was best back then

they shouldve gone with exploring multi dotting instead of making it the same as other dot specs

[royal lantern]

dmg is often less straight forward then it is on other classes, just compare rogue cds with the 2million "you do 20% more dmg" CD's everyone else has

if you do mistakes, the punishment is often higher

0 visual effects

worst class in the game for solo/world conte t

all reasons why rogue is underplayed

[limber lion]

Looks like a sped up log to me. Should just report it and get rid of it

[royal lantern]

wdym, atleast assa bleeds did dmg back then lol

[young dust]

Hero talents might be a bummer that's true

ret and DK are sick

Visually i mean

[prime flame]

Fuck visuals the only visual I need is details

[subtle tundra]

fuck details i raid with details off

[kindred hinge]

Visuals drop fps I am good without it

[subtle tundra]

i want VISUALS

[young dust]

what are the coolest visuals rogues ever had?

i think aakari's soul had visuals right?

[orchid pewter]

Crimson tempest is kinda cool

[subtle tundra]

POISON BOMBA

[prime flame]

It is a single role class and all 3 specs play the same way fundamentally. There's nothing appealing about it that other classes don't do

[grim jay]

So seemless that you currently lose like 3% dps

[subtle tundra]

in legion you saw the green puddle and you knew you FUCKED

[grim jay]

For no reason at all

[royal lantern]

what

how do the 3 specs play the same way lol

[orchid pewter]

Thats a very high take

Sadly i have to agree

[kindred hinge]

And yet hunt are one of the most played one

[prime flame]

They're extremely easy and highly recommended to people who start the game

[grim jay]

Its probably the one class where all 3 are fundamentally different brother

[young dust]

idk man i think outlaw is unique af

[grim jay]

Except for fury and enhancer

[young dust]

maybe people dont like the RNG idk

[grim jay]

Many people still think you are getting majorly cucked by rtb rolls

[royal lantern]

antorus, ingaroth or how the bridge guy was called

i had 6PB procs in a row on the First 6finishers

did more dmg then all other 13dps combined

fuck PB

[feral wasp]

rtb is not fun waste of gcd