assassination

[arctic socket]

@balmy condor please comment on it and say it’s wrong

[vale whale]

Bubbling Wax on both weapons or just MH ?

[rotund oak]

1 wax 1 whetstone afaik

wax on MH

[vale whale]

ty

[rotund oak]

u r welcome fam

[grim jay]

just use 2x whetstone

they are cheap now

[rotund oak]

1.4k

each

[grim jay]

2.8k for 2h aint bad

[rotund oak]

while null stone costs 4.3k

we live in a crazy world fam i tell u

ild rather make myself oils

im not giving those mfkers a single penny of my gold

[arctic socket]

Can I get some good sap

[rotund oak]

not before i goldcap a tiger i want

[arctic socket]

It’s up right now

[rotund oak]

after that ill mail u 1 mil

what

[arctic socket]

It’s on the bmah

Currently

[rotund oak]

i chcked 10min ago

holdon

[haughty lantern]

morning guys

"guys" non-specific

[arctic socket]

I’m subbed to a bmah thing

And it was pinged as being up

[arctic socket]

Morning sis

[haughty lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/terminalmontage-legend-of-zelda-link-fall-legend-of-zelda-ocarina-of-time-gif-9753146243346438552

[arctic socket]

Sold a lot of them

[rotund oak]

gimme and ill spare ur life

[arctic socket]

I don’t have it

Personally I would rather have the magic rooster mount

Over the tiger

[haughty lantern]

something extremely strange has happened in my guild runs of palace

• on almost every Siikran kill, the neck dropped
• on almost every Rasha'nan kill, the neck drop
• On.....i think every Nexus Princess kill, the fist weapon dropped
• on all of our Queen kills, haven't seen the ring at all

[arctic socket]

But I think the only way to get a rooster is to spend a outrageous amount of money

[haughty lantern]

so wtf does "extremely rare" mean anyway 🙃

[arctic socket]

Exetremly rare

[haughty lantern]

nice cock 👍

[arctic socket]

Exactly

[haughty lantern]

speaking of tcg mounts

i remember back in WoD

[arctic socket]

I currently ride around of the sha mount but with the recent mop remake doesn’t hold the same value

[haughty lantern]

I managed to SOMEHOW snag the amani dragonhawk for 75k

off the ah

[arctic socket]

Yeah I wish I bought a spectral tiger when they got duped

[haughty lantern]

i actually got galleon, the heavenly onyx, and the solar spirehawk without timerunning

[arctic socket]

Really wish I did

[arctic socket]

Same

But it doesn’t mean as much because you could just kinda buy em

So I want another “cool” rare mount

[spice spire]

Ok boomer

[arctic socket]

Magic rooster would be that

[rotund oak]

ild goldcap the rooster but i dont think they gonna put it on BM

no shot

btw there is no tiger

only deathfrost,bid for 870k

[drifting cedar]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
TLDR:Maintain max uptime on Envenom

• For Fatebound, Sanguine Blades is typically much better than Deathstalker. For this reason, if you can't maintain Envenom uptime anymore, you should build combo points, then reset your energy back to around 70% before maintaining again.
• For Deathstalker, try to stay under 50% as much as possible while maxing out Envenom uptime. Single target builds play Vicious Venoms instead of Sanguine Blades as well.

The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and use energy more efficiently for Deathstalker marks/cooldowns. Staying under 50% leads to more Envenom casts, which is more Darkest Night Procs. For Fatebound, heads flips contribute damage regardless of if you're flipping or not, so this pressure to keep spending is lessened.

[spice spire]

Is eu and NA different bmah?

I actually don’t know

[rotund oak]

it is

[arctic socket]

What realm did you check

It’s up

[frail geyser]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rotund oak]

ravencrest and stormscale

[arctic socket]

Oh yeah

[spice spire]

TO is NA

[arctic socket]

No idea what realm it’s up on

But it’s up

[spice spire]

Oh every realm is diff

Oh

[rotund oak]

yeah its regional actually

like server cluster

something like that

but its not,ive got my 2nd rogue parked there

witht he gold

[spice spire]

Never did bmah

[haughty lantern]

i have not run any m+ this week. @waxen oyster any sage advice oh multispeccer oh if sin rogue or outlaw is.....easier this week? or like....if outlaw has less trouble?

or vice versa? is outlaw even more hampered than sin rogue this week?

[proven jasper]

I wonder how good the cdr is for outlaw actually

[slate crown]

Is the longboy ever going to be on there?

[haughty lantern]

b/c that's like outlaw's entire schtick right? CDR to the moon?

[proven jasper]

Yeah p much

[rotund oak]

idk man,longboy costs like 25mil now isnt it

[proven jasper]

its a good point

[rotund oak]

no point in selling it

[proven jasper]

Its good for sub too but tbh, havent noticed it that much

[slate crown]

I mean it's unobtainable now isn't it?

except for maybe bmah

[rotund oak]

im not sure,idk tbh,i dont wanna say something im not 100% certain

[haughty lantern]

imma go ask the pirates

[rotund oak]

ik that there are sellers for sure but the prices are pretty crazy rn

[coral ibex]

apparently it was on the bmah in eu today

[rotund oak]

ye there is no point in selling it on black market for 10mil when it costs 3 times that

[rotund oak]

crazy

[full palm]

Quick question for AOE rotation on M+, if we 2+ monsters is it better to just use mutilate for caustic spatter activation and then spam FOK + Envenom or mutilate is better?

[atomic creek]

It's not players selling it on the BMAH though

[rotund oak]

its the game?

wasnt aware

[slate crown]

Yes

[acoustic roost]

yes

[atomic creek]

yeah

[rotund oak]

huh

[haughty lantern]

tbf on the bmah i have a feeling if someone sees it they sending 9,999,999 gold for it asap

[atomic creek]

It's NPC's listing items

[acoustic roost]

one of the OG gold sinks

[proven jasper]

yeah bm has always been npc’s

[rotund oak]

interesting

[slate crown]

Yeah, I can't be camping it 24/7

sadly

[rotund oak]

its the first time ive attained more than 10mil gold and i want a tiger

[slate crown]

cause it'll go immediately for sure

[rotund oak]

or a brutosaur for that matter

😂

[proven jasper]

Id be doing the exact same tbh

[haughty lantern]

well it's not even camping, it's wake up on server reset and check it. it's WHY they send 9,999,999 asap. It's what guarantees you get the item

[proven jasper]

if i had 10 mil

[rotund oak]

if u farmed in the start of the expansion u would be making multiple goldcaps now

i was naive,could have done triple my gold easy

[slate crown]

Is bmah only reset every weekly reset? or daily?

[haughty lantern]

tbf i have made 3mil gold in like...5 weeks?

income is slowing down but it's still there

[haughty lantern]

daily

and it's based on the server time too

[proven jasper]

Yeah i couldve easily, i missed a ton of the start of this xpac unfortunately

[rotund oak]

ive made approx 11.82mil gold since launch

[haughty lantern]

so like i play on thrall, east coast server, so it's like 9, 10pm by the time the bmah items get sold

[haughty lantern]

launch of....the game? or the xpac?

[rotund oak]

xpac

[charred vessel]

Hey who is best race for assasin rogue

[haughty lantern]

[rotund oak]

mechagnome

[haughty lantern]

iirc it's technically

yeah mechagnome

[acoustic roost]

human for the gyat

[haughty lantern]

maximum dps gains if you can tolerate being a diaper baby

[rotund oak]

actually swapped from human to mechagnome

[acoustic roost]

regular gnome for mythic queen root break

[rotund oak]

i hate myself now

[charred vessel]

and Mitic +

[acoustic roost]

dragon in a month for the squad

[haughty lantern]

i would also vouch for nelf personally

• 7% more move speed while stealthed
• shadowmeld to help stealth in combat more* (it's iffy, but it works some times, better than not having one)
• crit/haste free stat depending on time of date (both of which we like)

[cerulean nest]

dude the swirlies on ovinax are no joke

they were farming our melee

[rotund oak]

10fps fights no thx

ild rather que my mage into 3 MM hunters

[charred vessel]

and best race for Dk snow

[rotund oak]

sub deathstalker

kills those mfkers before they can blink

best race

[rotund oak]

im actually curious to see how @slate crown gets with her strategy in making gold from now on.She picked something very intelligent and spend several millions for proffessions.Ive spend aorund 1.7mil for everything since launch

[haughty lantern]

this is one of the first expansions where i was on the ball with expansions off the rip

never had this much gold before

EVER

[charred vessel]

nightstreak what is best racce for dk snow

[slate crown]

same, and even I wasn't as prepared as I could have been, made some flubs

[haughty lantern]

yuuuuup

[slate crown]

I've spent a lot

.>

[haughty lantern]

i made 500k on the mole mount

850k total ish

[slate crown]

Idn I just do the same thing I always do, pick a profession then craft every step of the chain leading into that profession

craft multiple stages of each craft

[haughty lantern]

herbalism went HARD (still kinda does but obv it will be slowing down)

[slate crown]

Also, don't play the game

I'm in town all day

I don't m+

I barely raid

I barely delve

I'd like to do those things

[rotund oak]

my profit analysis :

1. 4mil from bismuth
2. 3.66mil from wpn enchants(radiant power,councils guile,stormriders fury)
3. 1.4mil from Stormdust
4. 3mil from rank 3 herbs
5. 0.5-0.8mil from other materials

[slate crown]

but I don't right now

[brisk path]

bro I was bout to google affix specs and the first searched thing in google is this...the fuck is wrong with people

[rotund oak]

[slate crown]

https://tenor.com/view/first-time-meme-first-time-the-ballad-of-buster-scruggs-gif-24656975

[haughty lantern]

i don't know if the feet thing is a meme at this point or this many people are that degenerate

[proven jasper]

Both

[stark scroll]

VULPERA SNOW DK

[stark scroll]

google suggests posts based on a compiled history of like searches performed by its user, just fyi

[normal mist]

let me check myself then

[stark scroll]

XAL ATATH SIN ROGUE COSPLAY

[proven jasper]

[stark scroll]

ooof thats a yikes

[normal mist]

i've never google searched xal'atath in my life fyi

[reef ravine]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[slate crown]

I mean this is entirley unsurprising

[stark scroll]

we have got some kinky rogues

[slate crown]

It's a giant meme so that pushes search results

Some people like feet, some people think it's a funny meme that some people like feet. Some people think it's funny that some people think it's funny that soem people like feet. That combination means ^^^ search results

people do be talking about it

[stark scroll]

why is xalatah feet the number 2 trending search

why are we talking about this in this channel

why me

[normal mist]

Because this is offtopic 2.0

[slate crown]

[spice spire]

@silk bane

[limber lion]

Got him

[spice spire]

[pastel onyx]

https://tenor.com/view/psp1g-what-gif-23713811

[runic hinge]

[honest oxide]

is there a known issue of KB just disappearing on bloodbound?

[pastel onyx]

can get parried

[honest oxide]

fuckin trash

damn lol

[pastel onyx]

veri cool

[stark scroll]

true

I usually just go to the sub chat for off topic

and outlaw when for yapping

[honest oxide]

also does caustic hit ads on that boss like fire mages ignite

[stark scroll]

those outlaw rogues start going crazy when they get to yapping

[pastel onyx]

ye those damn outlaw rogues

[stark scroll]

mention acrobatic strikes

[pastel onyx]

[stark scroll]

meanwhile we both have outlaw tags

[rotund oak]

even foreverguy cant handle them

[pastel onyx]

[rotund oak]

its a certified loonybin there

[stark scroll]

yeah

go in there and type

[balmy condor]

No thanks

[stark scroll]

my raid lead wont let me in because they nerfed acrobatic strikes

[pastel onyx]

waiting for zac to ask guy how can he like that ar has a haste req now for 100th time

[stark scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/napoleon-blown-apart-typing-typing-intensifies-typing-fast-gif-23902021

[stark scroll]

zacs my favorite

[spice spire]

Eh they’re mostly fine.
They just get in dooming tangents (as most channels do) but they’re on 80 apm

So they go brazy

[stark scroll]

dooming at 160apm

[rotund oak]

[brisk path]

doubt

[royal lantern]

damm, he stacked haste

[stark scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-yoda-grogu-mandalorian-the-gif-19442802

[honest oxide]

does caustic spatter cleave onto ads on bloodbound if i dont swap off boss

[brisk path]

put just xalatath

[pastel onyx]

I think it doesnt

at least I saw an answer to this question

from Quake

before

[royal lantern]

no

[balmy condor]

Am I doing this right

[royal lantern]

range to high

[spice spire]

It does not

[honest oxide]

wish it did, those fire mages have an easy time there lol

[spice spire]

It hits the small guys if they get close

[stark scroll]

I dont understand feet fetish people

feet are nasty

the worst body part they couldve picked

[balmy condor]

You don’t have to

It’s their fetish

[rotund oak]

u r out of battery man

[balmy condor]

Not yours

[pastel onyx]

its hard to understand kinks from the outside perspective

[keen spruce]

did someone say toes

[pastel onyx]

so ye

[honest oxide]

also skardyns is simming a bit lower than my transmitter, i think im going to grab it for reliability, since transmitter loves spawining in puddles etc.

[keen spruce]

[stark scroll]

youre right i will stop judging pedophiles

its their fetish not mine

[pastel onyx]

[stark scroll]

#freediddy

[balmy condor]

[keen spruce]

that's quite the leap

lol

[spice spire]

Hmm

Let’s not

Not even gonna meme on this one

[stark scroll]

good call

[keen spruce]

on topic

[royal lantern]

mate

get help 🙂

[balmy condor]

Fucking outlaw rogue try not to be the weirdest mfer in the channel

[spice spire]

Oh no most of the time I will

[balmy condor]

Impossible challenge

[stark scroll]

you always show up after feet

[subtle tundra]

WOOF WOOF

[pastel onyx]

[subtle tundra]

feet

WOOF

[keen spruce]

TWW good meme

[royal lantern]

"judging" the most generic "fetish" in the world that is as vanilla as kissing

with pedohpilia

[rotund oak]

[haughty lantern]

[stark scroll]

I am cosplaying as an outlaw rogue

one of us

[balmy condor]

Idk you fit right in

[keen laurel]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[spice spire]

Frenching the dogs when

[keen spruce]

[normal mist]

Am i the only one who enjoys watching grown ups messing with kids in video games??

[royal lantern]

i dont know what thats suppoed to mean

[balmy condor]

What

[pastel onyx]

[stark scroll]

😲

[pastel onyx]

huh

[normal mist]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKhiL0s14Lo

[spice spire]

[normal mist]

i was watching that

fyi

[balmy condor]

Royal can you be any worse with your timing

[keen spruce]

phrasing

[normal mist]

LOL

[pastel onyx]

lmao

[normal mist]

WHAT HAPPENED

[spice spire]

When will we talk about French kissing toes

As god intended

[spice spire]

Read above big dog

Incredible

Generational timing actually

[normal mist]

OH

WTF

[keen spruce]

I don't want anything to do with the french kissing toes

[rotund oak]

[normal mist]

AHHAHAAHAHAH

[balmy condor]

Fucking weirdo brought up pedophilia and you stroll in with watching grown ups messing with kids

[royal lantern]

[pastel onyx]

AAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

[normal mist]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

IM DYING

xDDDDDD

[spice spire]

Man is the lebron james of awful timing jokes

[normal mist]

Im ready to be a father

xDDD

[runic hinge]

second best?

[haughty lantern]

royal what have you done

[spice spire]

Nah comfortable with goat

[stark scroll]

womp womp

[dire ivy]

!tricks

[prisma monolith]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[normal mist]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxOVrEPMJDgm7_kiEQK40BPoQrMqngqPrL?si=krwLd4MBj92aHKQz

this is what i meant

[runic hinge]

[normal mist]

xDDDD

[rotund oak]

bro spam fok'd in arena to sniff ut the rogue and got sapped

[pastel onyx]

immaculate timing

[normal mist]

xD

[coral ibex]

is anyone else experiencing a weird bug since tuesday where this macro doesn't work if you're in stealth and not in combat yet?

[balmy condor]

??

[haughty lantern]

[balmy condor]

Is it possible for you to not be strange

[normal mist]

that one time i wasn't paying attention to chat, i fuck it up LOL

[rotund oak]

whispyr putting the pigcells in the shotgun

[silk bane]

who pinged me >:C

[normal mist]

Quake

[slim pebble]

Can someone look into this for me https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bCKAWy3ph8YQkgd9#fight=12&type=damage-done&source=17

[rotund oak]

we still love you

[patent blade]

How's everyone feeling about the affix this week? Considering respecing to Fatebound so I can actually target switch instead of being stuck for 8+ gcds on the main target.

[balmy condor]

Awful affix

[rotund oak]

week feels rly bad

[spice spire]

Me

[balmy condor]

But going fatebound kinda crazy

[marble hemlock]

they made sure to make void emissaries feel just as terrible as in bfa

[rotund oak]

not even close

mr seli

[cyan surge]

How good is seal of the poisoned pact for assassination?

[balmy condor]

Just as good as it is for anyone else

Sim yourself

[coral ibex]

apparently they reverted the hp buff

so maybe its not as bad

[royal lantern]

i loved it when we did a mist 11

and the affix spawned 5seconds before the shield phase on the last boss started on the tank that was seperated from the group by 20000000 Instant death puddles (with some of them beeing invisible)

so we could not break the shield and stop the huge intermission dmg, and also not reach the add

❤️

[marble hemlock]

tbf that boss was kinda trash last week as well

also just play 3 ranged then the tank positioning doesnt matter

[spice spire]

What am I looking at

You munched tea

And like

[marble hemlock]

if youre still playing melee in m+, youre playing teh game wrong

[spice spire]

That’s it

[royal lantern]

why the fuck are those puddles half invisible/sometimes fully invisible when they kill you in 2 ticks

like

BLIZZARD?????

[marble hemlock]

love instantly ticking voidzones

[coral ibex]

if you jump while they are targeting they are invisible

[royal lantern]

the dungeon allready fucks with my red-green weakness like crazy

[spice spire]

You lost by 21k to a dude 10 ilvl above you with 636 weapons @slim pebble

[little tulip]

umm

please PLEASE just enjoy the song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NrLBlw9WZE

[vernal snow]

sorry i am new to assa, quick question: The build for m+ in wowhead and icyveins uses crimson tempest but i ve just checked the highest rio assa rogue and he doesnt have it talented. I am confused rn

[normal mist]

@slim pebble needs to understand that he's not really competing vs the other classes, he's competing with himself. He could be parsing 100 and still be bottom dps on his group

[coral ibex]

can you link a dungeon they completed with no CT?

[little tulip]

maybe uh evil should get more than state hospital lol

[normal mist]

if his guild cant understand how that works...

[little tulip]

what it do lol

[normal mist]

he could be logging out with other talents

bcs no CT in m+ seems kinda troll

[vernal snow]

okay ye maybe thats some ST spec idk anything yet about assa. thx mate

[royal lantern]

1: logging out with other talents

2: playing a very very ST focued build because they play in a very highly coordinated 5man group where they have 2 people going heavy aoe and they go more ST as a tradeoff

[stark scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/gojo-gojo-satoru-satoru-gojo-jjk-jujutsu-kaisen-gif-14813374835611323395

[royal lantern]

the 2 options

[stark scroll]

nope <333

[cloud basin]

I kinda forgot ,but will catalyst charges recharge, or do we only get the set number they give us

[royal lantern]

1 charge every 2 weeks

[burnt violet]

hey! im kinda new playing assesination any ,recommendations to watch or that can help to learn this spec ?

[normal mist]

wowhead.com

whispyr on youtube

icyveins.com

[burnt violet]

oh thank you ! ❤️

[rotund oak]

royal stream when btw

where is ur sub button

[burnt violet]

not gonna lie his thumbnails are so funny haha

[agile kestrel]

When you guys all sim for future upgrades - i.e. mythic raid, what talent loadout do you guys use? I've been using the basic ST raid one from wowhead, but I don't think I've actually used that exact build on a single fight. Does it really matter all that much or do you guys sim the build that you are using in the current fight or what?

[runic hinge]

guess we're doing damage now is goated

[normal mist]

With my gaming skill, i couldn't even set up a stream

[rotund oak]

we need more good ppl to make rogue known to the player basis

[burnt violet]

okay then i'll watch it first then haha ❤️

[rotund oak]

ppl dont know rogue

[stable cove]

so guys

[balmy condor]

Thanks

[stable cove]

when I have momentum of despair up, should I crimson tempest in ST? or that is misinformation?

[balmy condor]

I don’t spend any time on them

[balmy condor]

Sure

[stable cove]

is it a gain

[balmy condor]

It’s like 0.3%

[stable cove]

wow now we will be parsing

[burnt violet]

OH no way

[balmy condor]

Yeah surely now we parse

[stable cove]

ty for the info

[balmy condor]

On the two fights

[stable cove]

im a min max nerd so im doing it

[balmy condor]

[hollow talon]

are yall still delving

[stable cove]

nooo

that is so 2023

[hollow talon]

is the loot any good for vault or anything

[balmy condor]

Hero track

[dense talon]

can we use evasion for surgeon stitchflesh fixation?

[balmy condor]

Can drop tier

Decent trinket

[balmy condor]

Yes

[real pike]

hey does anyone have the old imp garotte raid build

[normal mist]

you met a celebrity

[burnt violet]

literally haha

[real pike]

can't remember what we swap out for imp gar/sanguine/shrouded

[normal mist]

Also, how the fuck do i cancel an ipad safety ensurance

[slim pebble]

So less tea munching and get better gear. Got it

[balmy condor]

Vicious/dashing ain’t it

What are we running sang for

[hollow talon]

can we craft stuff without an emblishment or do we need the griftTA's again

[real pike]

wait we don't run these any more?

[normal mist]

craft or recraft?

[hollow talon]

just craft

i want to make a ring

[normal mist]

you can craft without emb

[hollow talon]

cool

do we not get any sparks this week?

[real pike]

maybe my memory is worse than I thought, I'm just trying to remember what the build was before the improved garotte-less variant

[normal mist]

half this week

half next

[hollow talon]

wtf where is mine

[stable cove]

for some reason the momentum of despair wa in afenar isnt loading for me... anyone know why?

[balmy condor]

We run vicious/dashing

[hollow talon]

do i have to open those boxes or something

[normal mist]

weekly quest

[hollow talon]

one of these?

[real pike]

ok so this is clearly better than the old version with annoying vanish-garotte now? was gonna sim to check which is better with my stats

[normal mist]

probably the titan disc one

[balmy condor]

Because of the bug there’s some variants for people

I can’t be fucked

[real pike]

sorry 😦

[balmy condor]

So it’s just 2x vv for me

[grim jay]

sad

[bitter trout]

Quick question, if you evenom 2nd boss does splatter reach the adds or no

[hollow talon]

shieeeeeeeeet i gotta actually play the game?

[bitter trout]

I presume no

[balmy condor]

Not even remotely

[bitter trout]

Yup didn't think so

Didn't know if it was fucked with the hitbox or sumin idk

[balmy condor]

40 yard caustic spatter

[balmy condor]

Spatter always calculates from the center

[plucky plover]

Did they fix bubbling wax yet?

[balmy condor]

Yes

But no

[bitter trout]

RIP

[balmy condor]

But yes

You can use it again

But it’s still got old bugs

[formal palm]

whetstone it is

[plucky plover]

Just like the rogue class

I'm too poor for the 4k gold wetstones

[cunning urchin]

anyone have a combo points weak aura that is animated like the default combo points bar?

[hollow talon]

use buzzing runes

bis

[real pike]

I just do tokens and make myself poor in real life

[warm vortex]

!stealth

whats the command about stealth

[real pike]

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why stealth benefits aren't as important as you might think:

• Garrote is roughly 10-12% of people's damage in a key, most of which is already empowered/cleaved
• Most energy spreading will come from Rupture to maintain scent of blood, not garrote
• Without a Trace (+1 vanish charge) only grants roughly 2 additional casts across a whole dungeon
• While Without a Trace can allow for better vanish timings, the difference in damage provided is at most replacing a non-stealth opener with a stealth opener (you aren't necessarily getting "added" casts, just "better" casts)
• You can argue that it "feels bad", but numerically there is very little ground to stand on, the dps simply isn't there.

[naive lodge]

guys i do really low dmg in tyranical week. Do you have any tip for me? any favorit build or something to care?

[arctic socket]

Hybrid build pretty sick

[gentle gyro]

ok so blizzard doesn't want us to run keys this week, right?

[real pike]

how low is really low

[grim jay]

hybrid, so everything as always

[balmy condor]

“Tyrannical week” isn’t a thing btw

You get both

[grim jay]

idk why that would be the case

[arctic socket]

For the low key people it is whispyr

[gentle gyro]

just went through an 11 Ara Kara and I must say, I don't like the affix

[royal lantern]

use oils

[grim jay]

just play with a monk tank

[gentle gyro]

I dislike having to waste
checks details
ONE MINUTE'S WORTH OF DPS
on the affix

[slate crown]

yo wtf attacking armin for

[grim jay]

yeah, just play with a monk tank
even tho idk why people care what they hit

[slim pebble]

Whetstones finally dropped to like 1400 the other day

I yoinked a lot

[slate crown]

They will drop more

[gentle gyro]

because you can't reasonably cleave it and when it spawns during certain boss mechanics you can just go fuck yourself

[slate crown]

Nullstones have plummetted

[grim jay]

or play with a monk tank

[slate crown]

along with everything else

[gentle gyro]

ToD? or why monk tank?

[grim jay]

its like every other add spawn tho

[grim jay]

ye

[arctic socket]

I like how nw third boss could hook orbs

That was fun

[gentle gyro]

I mean, it is miles worse than the other affixes we had so far

[grim jay]

idk I disliked the first one the most

[rancid spade]

Why monk tank explain pls

[grim jay]

because its insane visual clutter

[gentle gyro]

get better nameplates then

[grim jay]

yeah I use whispyrs, thanks

im not new

the orbs themself do have visuals tho

[gentle gyro]

ok but seriously, first one was basically free with any aoe cc

[grim jay]

and IC can spread dots to the orbs

instead of mobs

[gentle gyro]

fire and forget

[arctic socket]

Yeah I’m with him, why is monk tank so good

[grim jay]

flint literally got it answered before

[gentle gyro]

can touch of death the affix

[grim jay]

they can ToD them

[arctic socket]

Oh

[gentle gyro]

because it's on 1 hp and has a shield, so it's technically low hp

and tod just kills it

[subtle tundra]

kyveza after nerfs is a joke
5 heal + 2 tankable

holy moly

[arctic socket]

Couldn’t any monk Tod them?

[plucky plover]

She was a joke on week 2 of heroic, unless you mean mythic

[arctic socket]

I have yet to do any keys this week so I don’t know

[subtle tundra]

ofc mythic

heroic

[deep gyro]

But tod scales on monk hp i believe

[arctic socket]

Learning monk stuff in rogue discord sick T

[rotund jungle]

Do we use wax now or what? is this an option instead of ironclaw stones or do we aplie stones poisions and wax now?^^

[arctic socket]

Thanks

[deep gyro]

I only know that cause my buddy mains brew. And we push together

[plucky plover]

I forgot I was surrounded by pro gamers for a minute

[subtle tundra]

read my name

[arctic socket]

Wanker

[subtle tundra]

thank god i refuse to play sub cause it means i dont play silken court

[arctic socket]

Are you having to play sub any other fights?

[subtle tundra]

no cause i refused

didnt care

[arctic socket]

Is there much of a difference?

[subtle tundra]

on silken court yea

mythic

[arctic socket]

Other fights

[subtle tundra]

brood is assa
kyveza is assa

silken is sub

[cunning urchin]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[subtle tundra]

idk queen

[cunning urchin]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[arctic socket]

Is silken sub because of line ups?

[subtle tundra]

dance for every dmg amp really adds up

[deep gyro]

Like smolderon then

[subtle tundra]

• its more ST than 2T in mythic

[acoustic roost]

For very specific reasons ofc that I can't decipher without looking at it, but Imexile, Liquid's rogue played assa on court as well

[spice spire]

I know who he is

[subtle tundra]

he literally said it was a mistake

kush did 400k more dps on sub than imexile on assa

thats huge

[spice spire]

Exile my goat being an OTP this tier

Bless

[subtle tundra]

he said it was cause downtime and shit -> sucks for sub its better for assa
kinda right, but sub is still much better

[subtle tundra]

he played sub on queen though

[storm harbor]

Does anyone know if he had good mark management? Switching it properly switch targets on amp phase?

[spice spire]

Pissed

[next parcel]

can you spam m+ bosses until you get a drop from them?

[coral ibex]

yes

[next parcel]

i need skardyn 😭

[coral ibex]

m+ is infinitely repeatable

[next parcel]

ok nice

ty

[acoustic roost]

good luck, some of us still out here in GB prison 35 runs so far T_T

[grim jay]

35 is on the low side

there are quite some with 50-ish

[glacial crypt]

FUYCK THIS BOSS

[lethal arrow]

dagger?

[glacial crypt]

no dagger

[lethal arrow]

[glacial crypt]

reaper dropped

[lethal arrow]

reaper but no dagger is evil

[glacial crypt]

wait

You mean the fist weapon?

[gusty mirage]

[glacial crypt]

am i stupid

[lethal arrow]

no i mean dagger

[glacial crypt]

AHHH REGICIDE

[lethal arrow]

regicide

yeah

[glacial crypt]

I'd not use it out of spite

fuck regicide

[lethal arrow]

LOL

[glacial crypt]

stupid mechanic

[grim jay]

regicide has no mechanic

[glacial crypt]

OH MY SWEET SUMMER CHILD

[spice spire]

For the king

[lethal arrow]

it says nothing personel on it

[glacial crypt]

the one on the boss

[late surge]

@balmy condor would u CT on brood with no adds alive, I assume no but wanna make sure

[glacial crypt]

xd

not the actual dagger, dagger is just named after it

[lethal arrow]

i think the daggers neat

very edgy name and flavor text

[lethal arrow]

dont even take CT on brood

[late surge]

just using whispyrs recommended tree

[grim jay]

imagine knowing what the mechanics are called

[jolly heath]

what if our comp have only 1 fdk and 1 fury and 3 assa

[grim jay]

I still dont know the names even if I wipe 200 times

[jolly heath]

we all took CT

[grim jay]

instant name memory delete after I leave the raid

[lethal arrow]

3 assa

[glacial crypt]

THIS IS BASED

[lethal arrow]

ur getting gear in there?

[spice spire]

It’s okay, kitten: you don’t need to know that.

[jolly heath]

it is what it is

[left mauve]

What does fuu mean by ascendance + patch

[glacial crypt]

how the FRICK have you gotten 3 assa rogues in a raid

[grim jay]

!craft

[prisma monolith]

Preferences currently are wrist/belt/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" in raid, but has ramp time and is worse in m+
2x Dawnthread (wrist/belt) is generally the best in m+ and not far behind of Ascencion/Banding for raids. Equal in single target at 80% uptime

Craft a dagger if you're unlucky and don't get one and are down bad and crying about your pathetic little 580 main hand dagger. Put Ascencion on it
If you have a big dagger in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

[spice spire]

Ascendency + nerubian patch

[lethal arrow]

theres 2 embellishments

[spice spire]

Writhing banding yeah

[grim jay]

yeah as long as I recognize whats happening, ig its fine

[spice spire]

[warm vortex]

Anyone have the link to the video explaining restealth?
got a friend thinking tanks should let him stealth

[quiet oar]

You have a new PfP

I didnt recognize you

[spice spire]

This is almost a week old

[left mauve]

!craft

[prisma monolith]

Preferences currently are wrist/belt/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" in raid, but has ramp time and is worse in m+
2x Dawnthread (wrist/belt) is generally the best in m+ and not far behind of Ascencion/Banding for raids. Equal in single target at 80% uptime

Craft a dagger if you're unlucky and don't get one and are down bad and crying about your pathetic little 580 main hand dagger. Put Ascencion on it
If you have a big dagger in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

[spice spire]

You think I’d call this old ass man kitten unironically?

[quiet oar]

He is literally a boomer

more than you quake

[grim jay]

method hunter called me kitten in a key, so here I am

(kittened him back)

[glacial crypt]

with the amount of times it hits you on mythic

[grim jay]

(outdpsed him aswell)

[glacial crypt]

there was no avoiding knowing the name

STUPID lines

I'm 1/8M with my only kill being princess

[quiet oar]

kek

[quasi steppe]

!macro

!macros

[void torrent]

anyone have any tips why I can't parse at bloodtwister? I parse green there help would be nice (it is prolly I don't know my aoe rotation well enough but dont know what is wrong) link to my warcraftlogs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/tarren-mill/troksi

[spice spire]

Means that 2/8 vault gonna have princess juicer loot

[grim jay]

adds shouldnt be the problem, can probably get a 95+ without even touching them

[formal palm]

Does the elemental focusing lens do anything if there are no gems socketed?

[lethal arrow]

how i felt last week when our guild is 3/8M but my only kill was bloodbound for dagger

[grim jay]

didnt feel like it on my alt

[void torrent]

so the problem is I move too much to kill parasites and stuff?

[spice spire]

What section do you go

[quiet oar]

and everything else

that is before princess

[glacial crypt]

no shot I have university things to be doing

they can have fun on ovinax reclear

[void torrent]

3-4-4

[grim jay]

ye they changed it, so you unlocked all the previous loot

aswell

[spice spire]

No not egg breaks

[lethal arrow]

vinax

[quiet oar]

[spice spire]

Which section. Primarily worm section? Tank spider? Or parasites

[void torrent]

parasites and then what I can help with worm usually

then back to boss cleave spiders

[grim jay]

I just ignore everything and ST the boss with spatter

[spice spire]

Okay

[grim jay]

but it kinda depends on your guild

[spice spire]

So there are three sections to the room

[quiet oar]

exactly

[spice spire]

One section had primarily tank spiders eggs. One section primarily worm eggs, and one with parasite eggs.

[hybrid tree]

Is OH wax fixed? 🙂

[spice spire]

Like my guild did tank spiders > worm

I did not take any CT or anything

Just spatter

And did fine

Recommend that unless you start parasite (which why would you)

[spice spire]

!wax

Oh ok

[prisma monolith]

Bubbling Wax can once again be applied to weapons of all levels
There might still be bugs and odd things happening to it that hasn't been tested yet, but it seems to be working based on initial testing

[grim jay]

bot is laggy

af

[spice spire]

[grim jay]

I dont even hit parasites

[echo tartan]

bro assa seems so hard compared to outlaw

[grim jay]

all those warriors etc burst the shit out of them

[echo tartan]

like what is all this

[lethal arrow]

nah its not that bad lol

ur pressing way less buttons

[spice spire]

Literally the only thing I do is rupture tag bigger things that don’t auto die

Outside of that

[quiet oar]

tbh

[spice spire]

It’s just st and ctw procs

[quiet oar]

Ovinax is kinda ok

[coral ibex]

spread bleeds, keep up envenom

[quiet oar]

after nerfs

[grim jay]

good that amount of button presses isnt in any way related to difficulty

[spice spire]

Think mythic you def juice Ct

But in heroic

Ain’t no way

[echo tartan]

st and ctw?

[spice spire]

Single target

Clear the witnesses

[weak copper]

hey guys, do we have a bis list for trinkets

for assa

[quiet oar]

You think CT is the play on ovinax

[spice spire]

Still talking about ovinax specifically

[quiet oar]

[echo tartan]

can someone simple down the rotation

i cant read this properly

[lethal arrow]

sac and skardyns

[royal lantern]

yes, cus CT is also boss dmg

[spice spire]

Spread bleeds

[royal lantern]

adds spawn->CT->More dmg on boss aswell

[spice spire]

For ic

[coral ibex]

spread bleeds, apply caustic splatter, send cooldowns

[royal lantern]

with singular focus/the CT boost from having multiple targets

[spice spire]

Yeah

[lethal arrow]

which rotation

[echo tartan]

how does caustic splatter work

[grim jay]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[lethal arrow]

u press mutilate and it goes on the enemy

[coral ibex]

you have to have a rupture on the target

[spice spire]

You mutilate a ruptured target and all poison damage happens to enemies around it

[grim jay]

and poison

[quiet oar]

[spice spire]

Like up to 8?

For 10s

[echo tartan]

i see

10

[spice spire]

If you have a weak aura from this channel

They all tell you it spatter is up

[spice spire]

If you’re never seeing adds

Don’t worry about it

But if adds are living

[grim jay]

we only have strong auras, outlaw has the weak ones

[spice spire]

Ct is worthwhile boss dam too

[spice spire]

Buddy I’ll show you a strong aura

[grim jay]

I'd appreciate it

[heavy summit]

does anyone have a good platter profile to make it easier to keep track of targets with rupture? As packs are afflicted by a ton of bleeds and poisons, I am having a rough time identifying who is missing garrote and rupture 😒

[hollow talon]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1283842520308256858/image.png

[grim jay]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[echo tartan]

what does this mean

[coral ibex]

potion tracker

[spice spire]

That’s a potion icon

[echo tartan]

what potion

i got no pots

😭

[grim jay]

its probably poisons

[coral ibex]

bruh did you even read the wowhead guide

[spice spire]

Maybe why it’s grey

[winged sun]

is aug rly good for assa?

[winged sun]

or is it shit like outlaw

[echo tartan]

but wich ones lmfao

[spice spire]

It’s fine

[coral ibex]

its on the cheat sheet

[echo tartan]

hi zeross

[coral ibex]

on wowhead

[spice spire]

2m > 2m

[winged sun]

hi

[spice spire]

Makes sense

[echo tartan]

wanna learn assa with me together >.<

pookie wookie

anyways

so i apply my poisons

wich means garrote rupture and crimson tempest

then i caustic spatter

[winged sun]

i dont need to learn assa

[echo tartan]

then what

[coral ibex]

no those are bleeds

[winged sun]

already know it

[echo tartan]

bleeds*

[spice spire]

You focus a target

[grim jay]

bro its all in the wowhead guide

[spice spire]

And passively damage

[coral ibex]

its literally in the pictures you linked

[echo tartan]

yeah but that shit is confusing me

[spice spire]

Think of it as blade flurry with extra steps

Take it slow

[tropic cedar]

rupture tagging with SBS is so sick

really cool interaction

[heavy summit]

check out whispyr's 1.30 hour long video, explains everything

[lethal arrow]

if u learn the aoe opener the rest will make sense

[late surge]

ILL LET U KNOW SOON

[heavy summit]

Im doing just that

[spice spire]

Don’t try to take it all in at once

[runic hinge]

take it 80 apm

[late surge]

MY GOAT TIRAMIL

[lethal arrow]

ur overwhelming yourself

[spice spire]

Ty mister hutt

[echo tartan]

yeah but with that opener i also gotta learn priority?

[late surge]

we got 2 dks and warr

[quiet oar]

[echo tartan]

like lmao what

[runic hinge]

keep your bleeds up

[late surge]

so if its the play here

[runic hinge]

that's your priority

[late surge]

it for sure is

[coral ibex]

how did you play outlaw without learning a prio list

[quiet oar]

i mean

[echo tartan]

well

[quiet oar]

its sanguine blaDES

[echo tartan]

its bte

bte

bte

[quiet oar]

which get yeeted

and snaguine is badge

[lethal arrow]

the priority is keeping rupture and garrote up on main target and CT up on everyone else lol

[tropic cedar]

just ignore all the writing underneath the abilities in the opener until you get a handle on how it works. you're essentially jsut setting up bleeds and tagging a high hp mob with mut to start cleaving via Caustic

[late surge]

tiramil

[coral ibex]

yea i guess if you just ignore everything about a spec and just care about 1 button

[late surge]

we running this

and quake

[coral ibex]

its pretty simple

[echo tartan]

yeah but if i got it all setup what do i do then

[lethal arrow]

mutilate and envenom

[tropic cedar]

then you Deathmark with Skardyns (if you have it)

then shiv-Kb in ST

or DM-KB and then shiving when KB has 8 seconds left for M+

[echo tartan]

isnt that a waste of cooldowns

on trash mobs

[coral ibex]

huh

[echo tartan]

in aoe

[runic hinge]

you're a waste of cds

[tropic cedar]

on low keys yes

[coral ibex]

bruh

[lethal arrow]

if ur holding cds in m+ ur doing something wrong

[tropic cedar]

^

[late surge]

yo

[echo tartan]

yeah fair enough

[tropic cedar]

bad cds are better than wasting cds

[late surge]

how do I auto tricks tank

[coral ibex]

most of m+ is trash mobs

[late surge]

my m6 stopped working

[runic hinge]

!tricks

[prisma monolith]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[lethal arrow]

the faster trash dies, the faster you beat the dungeon

[echo tartan]

i just wanted to add ive been playing this game for a total of almost 2 weeks now

i have yet to play alot of m+

[lethal arrow]

obviously dont dump cds right before a boss

[late surge]

thanks goat

love you

[tropic cedar]

you will start noticing that mobs stay alive for your cds in like 9s or 10s, even trash mobs

[lethal arrow]

you'll get a feel for it as you play

[weak copper]

is treachorous transmitter considered bis? or sim bait

[tropic cedar]

yea its very feelcraft

[lethal arrow]

every key is slightly different, sometimes ur party is ahead and u can hold a little, sometimes ur behind and u just gotta send it

[glacial crypt]

The ovinax nerfs have actually gutted the boss lmfao

[coral ibex]

https://youtu.be/N_if0HnJ1gE

watch this video

[glacial crypt]

It's so low before third platform now it's insane

[tropic cedar]

the mist maze is the worst man

[coral ibex]

it will answer every question you have

[lethal arrow]

fuck i hate mist maze LOL

[echo tartan]

ima be straight up

i dont have the time

or attention span

[lethal arrow]

i hate what theyve done with it

[echo tartan]

to watch taht

[coral ibex]

you have time to make us answer your questions

and demand our attention

smh

[glacial crypt]

that's wild

[heavy summit]

Question, when spreading garrote and rupture out of stealth, can I use it on the same target for it to spread to multiple enemies? or do i have to like use it (spreads) and then tab to an unnafected and re cast to spread to the rest?

[echo tartan]

well dont respond to it if u dont wanna lmfao

[royal lantern]

well, sucks to be you then

[echo tartan]

i didnt ask u specifically

[royal lantern]

idk what else to say

[lethal arrow]

still a fat jump from rash or is it not as bad now

[coral ibex]

lol

good luck buddy

[lethal arrow]

ur asking for answers but arent putting in the effort to learn

[tropic cedar]

an outlaw with a low attention span, it tracks

[bright surge]

!garrrote

[tropic cedar]

can not lie

[coral ibex]

"bruh someone spoon feed me all the answers i want bc im too lazy"

[glacial crypt]

There'll still be a big jump for most guilds but the boss HP and damage intake is so little now

[polar sinew]

!craft

[lethal arrow]

the tools are there, you can learn the rotation and how the class plays in 30 minutes with some training dummies

[prisma monolith]

Preferences currently are wrist/belt/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" in raid, but has ramp time and is worse in m+
2x Dawnthread (wrist/belt) is generally the best in m+ and not far behind of Ascencion/Banding for raids. Equal in single target at 80% uptime

Craft a dagger if you're unlucky and don't get one and are down bad and crying about your pathetic little 580 main hand dagger. Put Ascencion on it
If you have a big dagger in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

[shy quest]

i need a little help here i gor skardyns and transmitter
i use skardyns with deathmark and then transmitter with the second kingsbane?

[coral ibex]

just imagine the video is 100 tiktoks in a row

[pastel onyx]

tfw when u try to pickpocket a kobold for wax but someone already did

[lethal arrow]

I think my guild kills rash tonight so I'm trynna get a feel for how long brood prog is boutta be lol

[quiet oar]

Ye have the same build now

[tropic cedar]

double on-use as assa has to be so aids. i would recommend you try and get your hands on a mandate if you wanna run double on use

[late surge]

lesgo

[gritty laurel]

it'll intelligently spread, but if you reapply to the same mob, you're wasting a rupture application. so 5 targets you get all of them tagged in 2 ruptures no matter what, but against 6 targets, you'll only tag 5 unless you swap targets after the first one

[late surge]

we testing now

[spice spire]

Oh god my meme is becoming reality

Less than ideal usage as said above

The second on use I’d recommend is mandate

That’s about it

[runic hinge]

Love you too

[tropic cedar]

mandate fuckin trucks

[late surge]

thanks homie

❤️

[coral ibex]

doesn't really matter, you dont rupture for damage and scent caps at 5 ruptures

[gritty laurel]

that too

[coral ibex]

smart cleave is fine

maybe you specifically imp garrote casters

[subtle tundra]

have you simmed it though

did you do the apl

did you try trasnmitter first skardyn second, and then compare the other way around

[spice spire]

Why would skardyns on non dm ever work better

[subtle tundra]

im fucking YOU

[spice spire]

No no

Keep the first one

Hell yeah

[subtle tundra]

meow

[tropic cedar]

even if they were similar in damage wouldnt you still use skardyns first since it activates immediately and you dont have to do the task first?

i mean i guess you could delay your DM a couple seconds but that sounds beans

[long fossil]

hey I don't know what to pick in my great vault. I tried to sim it but i'm still note sure.
I run Skardyn's Grace and Mad queen's Mandate both champion
I got the Ara-Kara sacbrood hero in my vault. The other valid option is the head tier set (going from 606 to 619) so I have something interesting if i don't take the trinket.
What's your opinion on thoses trinkets combinations ? I Mainly do mythic +

[lethal arrow]

sac + skardyns is pretty good

would be way harder to run into sac in vault again compared to a head piece

also sac + skardyns means 1 less on use to pop

[subtle tundra]

its hc sac

its farmable

[quiet oar]

Just loot them in your vaults

[raven egret]

I will find you

[quiet oar]

[raven egret]

...

[sharp viper]

...

[raven egret]

brb getting in bath with plugged in toaster

[quiet oar]

I think btw CT is the play

[agile kestrel]

LIVE. LAUGH. TOASTER BATH!

[quiet oar]

on ovinax

[late surge]

ur hacking

[raven egret]

Mythic yes, Heroic no.

probably

[late surge]

hc never

[lethal arrow]

who did you sacrifice for this

[simple yoke]

I didn't run it and did okay, but I'm not a great player I'm sure someone could push CT to be amazing there, but I just did regular ST build and it was fine

[late surge]

mythic unless u got like 4 warriors

xd

[raven egret]

I have 2 and its painful enough already

[late surge]

I got 2 fdks

I feel it

[raven egret]

Also yes Tira is hacking and all his screenshots are photoshopped

[late surge]

ik man

this guy

never lucky so he photoshops

[agile kestrel]

I got this first vault, am i haxxing too?

[royal lantern]

Equip: Dealing damage has a high

a high what??????????

[late surge]

leech

[raven egret]

just gets high

[late surge]

high chance

[raven egret]

very baked

[late surge]

you know

[abstract linden]

You can double socket rings now? Why am I just seeing this