assassination

[cunning needle]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
TLDR:Maintain max uptime on envenom

• For Fatebound, sanguine blades is typically much better than Deathstalker. For this reason, if you can't maintain Envenom uptime anymore, you should build combo points, then reset your energy back to around 70% before maintaining again.
• For Deathstalker, try to stay under 50% as much as possible while maxing out Envenom uptime. Single target builds play vicious venoms instead of sanguine blades as well.

The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and use energy more efficiently for Deathstalker marks/cooldowns. Staying under 50% leads to more envenom casts, which is more Darkest Night Procs. For Fatebound, heads flips contribute damage regardless of if you're flipping or not, so this pressure to keep spending is lessened.

[sweet plank]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[tall atlas]

on stream max just said the new rogue shit, what is the new rogue shit

[tired gull]

if you have to ask, you can't afford it

[white cairn]

double on use things

[tall atlas]

or i can cos im too busy working and not scouring twitter for wow updates like a sado

[tall atlas]

oh cool, is there somewhere ican read about this

[white cairn]

no

[whole sand]

its top secret

[tall atlas]

yessir

[white cairn]

just watch exiles stream and learn

[worldly nebula]

Its getting nerfed next reset anyways, right?

[oblique jackal]

I believe he’s pre popping on use trinket

[balmy condor]

it's very specific to transmitter + mandate on this exact boss timing

[tall atlas]

ty bby

[balmy condor]

literally useless for anyone unless they have his gear and are progging this in the next 2 weeks

[tall atlas]

someone in my guild was talking about it i didnt pay attention sounded weird

[novel star]

ye it’s not “rogue shit” really

it’s rwf kyveza shit

[balmy condor]

there is also small rogue shit

[novel star]

i mean yeah but squeezing out the 4th mandate is mostly kyveza shit

[tall atlas]

you take smol rogue shits

[novel star]

innit

[whole sand]

i see, so i'm not good enough

[arctic tusk]

it it just transmitter pre pull, mandate on pull start or do you rip it after DM

[tall atlas]

ty

10k agi prepull seems wild

[balmy condor]

but xdd

mostly just trinket and optimizing public info better for this specific situation

[outer marsh]

If I want to raid AND run M+, what weapon enchants should i use? one of each?

[balmy condor]

Radiant power

[tall atlas]

fs i used deep

[sharp pond]

got a DUMB question

[tall atlas]

no u dont

[balmy condor]

I’ve seen worse questions

[sharp pond]

okay so, suppose all my bleeds are up, i have envenom buff

[balmy condor]

You wait for envenom to hit 1 second

[sharp pond]

but deathstalker is off and i need the 7 point cp envenom

[balmy condor]

Before enveloping

Oh

You full slam

To get the mark up

[sharp pond]

okay maintaining that mark is priority, thank you

[balmy condor]

Np

[novel star]

mark uptime gives ur autos more dam than env uptime rite

[balmy condor]

Ye

[novel star]

swag

[sharp pond]

this kinda makes me excited for that change where the envenom buff stacks now cause im working on building that habit mashing to keep deathstalker up

ion like it

but w/e

[balmy condor]

I mean that talent doesn’t really change it

[tall atlas]

Positive or negative?

[balmy condor]

And we don’t know if it’s even good

Or played

[novel star]

just takes poison chance increase from 30-60 right

[sharp pond]

negative, im used to the old legion rotation where i just chilled keeping bleeds and envenom up

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[novel star]

so it’s like super whatever

[balmy condor]

It’s interesting during burst

[novel star]

ye

[tall atlas]

Ah so you’re like a metallic ion then

[balmy condor]

And m+

[sharp pond]

ohhhhh i meant 'i dont like it'

[tall atlas]

Would you say you’re more of a sodium or an iron

[novel star]

faster kb stacks in low keys poggers

[tall atlas]

No I know I’m fucking with you

[novel star]

also rapid injection 20% right?

[sharp pond]

currently sodium

[novel star]

it’s just additive double everything

or

[tall atlas]

Looooool

[balmy condor]

yes

[sharp pond]

im salty af about this lol

[tall atlas]

U salty boi

[novel star]

dam

[tall atlas]

That worked out so well

[novel star]

ye that’s kinda giga m+

finally a spatter nerf surely?

[still tree]

so the one thing I'm having trouble with in the m+ hybrid build is what to do with shiv when in comes up outside of kingsbane. Like obviously with only the single charge you want to use it at the back half of KB to amp the biggest part, but then after 30 seconds is it worth it at all to just send a "naked" shiv for value? Cause that's what I've been trying to do, but then any drift whatsoever feels god awful and fucks everything up. Is the play to just hold it for KB every time or simply have to get good?

[late ravine]

Do I craft wep here or wrist with Dawnthread as my belt has

[tall atlas]

Don’t press it

[novel star]

what that is wrong

[late ravine]

Been melting my brain on sims, and idk

[novel star]

after lining up with the end of kb you slam on cd

and it auto lines up again

[grave osprey]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
TLDR:Maintain max uptime on envenom

• For Fatebound, sanguine blades is typically much better than Deathstalker. For this reason, if you can't maintain Envenom uptime anymore, you should build combo points, then reset your energy back to around 70% before maintaining again.
• For Deathstalker, try to stay under 50% as much as possible while maxing out Envenom uptime. Single target builds play vicious venoms instead of sanguine blades as well.

The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and use energy more efficiently for Deathstalker marks/cooldowns. Staying under 50% leads to more envenom casts, which is more Darkest Night Procs. For Fatebound, heads flips contribute damage regardless of if you're flipping or not, so this pressure to keep spending is lessened.

[tall atlas]

There’s a whole bit in whis’s guide about pressing it cos who cares really it’s not that big of a deal

[novel star]

[tall atlas]

Ye press it if you want

But it’s not imperative

I’m not saying don’t press it soz I should say dw about pressin it

[silk bane]

im vry curious about sin burst with ttk and subtr ma

[novel star]

i mean in aoe shiv never really matters yeh

even timing with kingsbane

[silk bane]

cant wait to cook when theyre in sims

[tall atlas]

Imo it’s a wasted global outside of KB

Asa has too many global to get going as it is

[tiny ingot]

!wax

[prisma monolith]

Bubbling Wax is roughly on par with whetstones and are free. Some caveats:

• Right now having wax applied to your offhand does nothing. Make sure you apply wax first, then apply your whetstone
• The quickest way to farm for wax is pickpocketing the kobolds in front of darkflame cleft
• If you have no idea what any of this is, you need to start the questline with "Brax's Brass Knuckles", then walk into the inn and talk to the vent to start "Go Take Candle". Once you complete the short questline, you can pickpocket wax from the kobolds

[novel star]

why would it be a wasted global

you’re still increasing ur prio damage by a lot

[tall atlas]

In aoe

[novel star]

same logic as doing it for kb in aoe

purely a prio dmg increase

[tall atlas]

Because you gotta do all the other shit first so if there is no kb

Fuck it

Ye I get you

[soft shale]

am i the only one that saw you enchanted int in your chest?

[still tree]

think I definitely don't press it outside of kb in AOE, cause that's usually when I'm either redotting or the pack is dead anyways

[novel star]

maybe i’m wrong but i feel like you still slam that shit on cd aoe or not

[still tree]

and just ry and keep it on cd on ST bosses

[late ravine]

Its not int trust me 😄 its Crystalline Radiance, idk why its like that

[tall atlas]

See in a pack 5+ do you guys do double garrote and rupture then muti CT?

[novel star]

30% more envenom damage kinda big

[tall atlas]

That’s what I’ve been finding myself doing

[soft shale]

yo addon scamming you

[tall atlas]

Ye that makes sense thank you

[novel star]

i’m just feely craftin

[tall atlas]

Ye me too hence the 2x garrote rupture muti CT on big packs

[novel star]

idk i just do what the opener image says on wowhead

[tall atlas]

Haha

Fair

[plush delta]

are there any talent changes we are meant to make to be less of a paddy spec

[late ravine]

I can still make 2 sets versus each other when simming right

[tall atlas]

I just do them twice to spread the bleed more off the prim target

[plush delta]

overall damage is always top but boss damage is lacking

[tall atlas]

And then go in with the spinnies

[novel star]

not really? there’s the cleave build but its really not recommended unless necessary for high keys and stuff

[novel star]

our boss damage is lacking in raid with full st talents man that’s just sin

[late ravine]

The silence is pretty huge aswell, if there are casters, so you should

[sullen hearth]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[novel star]

we don’t have good st rn

[plush delta]

alright will take a look, just finding the meaningful damage on bosses is missing

compared to some other classes

[novel star]

the roles have been reversed sin is the aoe pumper spec now

yep

[plush delta]

and sin usedto pump in ST bro so weird

[novel star]

not gonna change anything about it with talents

just sin

very mid st if not a little below mid

[tall atlas]

You not watching maxs stream

Sin is pumping ST

[novel star]

exile is doing some insane degen shit rn tho

[silk lotus]

Yeah sin pumping

[slate crown]

what's he doing?

[sharp pond]

kk got 2 more questions

[novel star]

he’s pre casting transmitter like 6s before pull and 10s before 2nd deathmark or smth to get 4 mandate casts over the fight instead of 3

[sharp pond]

imma just type them out at once

[novel star]

double on use

[plush delta]

is he a rogue streamer?

[novel star]

[tall atlas]

No he’s a cute little engineer

[silk lotus]

He presses the first one on his first ambush.

[tall atlas]

No that’s whis

[tall atlas]

No he’s the GM of liquid

[soft shale]

it is because of the way the fight works with the enrage timer

[novel star]

?

[soft shale]

and because they nerfed the icd to 30 secs

to fuk rogues

[novel star]

yeh

[soft shale]

in particular

because hehe

[novel star]

luv me sepsis

[slate crown]

what sthat

[novel star]

i wish i was still a night fae man

take me back

[soft shale]

it is a suicide button

like coup but cooler

[sharp pond]

1. is it okay to use shiv or garrote to get that 7th cp instead of spamming mut and potentially wasting cp being capped?

2. i sim like 800k, but on the dummy i get like 530k, not asking for improvement but more so i know the sim is a 'perfect' environment so im wondering is it normal for anyone else to have such a gap from sim, to in game

[soft shale]

and you can do it twice

[plush delta]

are the other rogue specs the same ? paddy in m+ or does otrher specs have better boss dmg in their m+ builds ?

[novel star]

no you just tank the mut overcap

[soft shale]

nah sub sucks overall dmg but good st

outlaw just does decent dmg all around

but nothing crazy

[novel star]

garrote if it’s in pandemic obv but don’t waste dmg on it by going early

[tall atlas]

1. Yea
2. You do t have all the buffs and bloodlust n shit you get in a raid

[slate crown]

1. If it's time to refresh garrote anyways, yes, you can use garrote to get to max. But if it's not, just mutilate.
2. Idn if it's normal just push your buttons

Do not force a shiv to get to max

[sharp pond]

appreciate everyone, thank you so much !

[slate crown]

use shiv as you're supposed to

[novel star]

and yeah you should be simming target dummy instead of patchwerk if you aren’t already

[sharp pond]

i learned something new

[tall atlas]

Dw about shiv

[novel star]

takes out the execute damage and buffs

[tall atlas]

Legit

If you’re new and unsure

Just forget shit outside of in

[novel star]

simming patchwerk is good for gear upgrades but for grinding to improve ur rotation and shit

[tall atlas]

Kb

[novel star]

do dummy

[plush delta]

thx

[tall atlas]

Once you get into the timings of it all you can start shiving for envenom damage

[sharp pond]

really appreciate the advice coming back into this game from a long hiatus, thank you

[novel star]

[sharp pond]

i feel alot better about my practice and playstyle now

[novel star]

gl

[tall atlas]

All good man

I was the same in df and I’m still dumb af

And you’re lucky cos and I may be biased but rogue has the best discord imo

[sharp pond]

this is the most i've gotten help cause usually the very specific questions get glossed over so i am very grateful

[bitter solar]

It does. We're all degen memers, but we're the most helpful fuckers.

[lethal mortar]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wise plume]

just pugged princess on hero, holy fuuuck

took 2 and a half hours but damn it feels good

[junior shore]

It’s a fun fight

[wise plume]

honestly yeah, my favorite fight of the raid

just straight madness

[late ravine]

!wax

[prisma monolith]

Bubbling Wax is roughly on par with whetstones and are free. Some caveats:

• Right now having wax applied to your offhand does nothing. Make sure you apply wax first, then apply your whetstone
• The quickest way to farm for wax is pickpocketing the kobolds in front of darkflame cleft
• If you have no idea what any of this is, you need to start the questline with "Brax's Brass Knuckles", then walk into the inn and talk to the vent to start "Go Take Candle". Once you complete the short questline, you can pickpocket wax from the kobolds

[late ravine]

Can you have both a wax and whetstone applied?

[elfin pier]

looking at starting assa rogue for new main, where should i look for decent info etc, wowhead fine enough or?

[late ravine]

Yes, and wearch for Whispyr on youtube 😄

[elfin pier]

u can, use the wax first

and thank you

[silent drift]

how do i live +10 dots and shit as rogue and unavoidalbe dmg

[late ravine]

Click the bind with cloak and evasion

Hmm I used the wax first then whetstones, but it's not there anymore, did I fuck it up?

[winged widget]

also replace cheat death with elusiveness

[fleet pagoda]

you have whetstone on mh now? if you use those too fast consecutively they apply to the same weapon instead of mh then oh like you'd expect

so you gotta give it a sec after applying the first

[late ravine]

So I use wax, wait a bit, when whetstone the wax weapon

[fleet pagoda]

essentially yeah. wax has been sort of buggy though just a heads up, if you die you need to either reapply that (specifically to mh) or like unequip/re-equip that weapon or some such

[fallen moss]

anyne crafting 636 dagger?

[late ravine]

Would I be able to see both wax and whetstone applied to the wep or not, cause I only see whetstone, and waited a bit

[winged widget]

seen a lot of rogues around dornogal with 636 crafted already. if killing bloodbound horror on mythic, or getting myth track vault slots aren't options on the horizon for you, crafting it isn't a bad thing

[fleet pagoda]

you can see whatever you applied to it. can toggle over the item on your character sheet to see and be 100% certain which is on which

[winged widget]

just don't craft siphoning stilleto

[late ravine]

So here I did it wrong

Obv

[fleet pagoda]

i wouldn't say you did it wrong but it got the result you didn't want necessarily. tbh i'd just use two whestones and forget about wax for now lol

[winged widget]

wax and whetstone are both "weapon oil"

[fleet pagoda]

or if you need to save a couple gold use algari oils

[winged widget]

they replace the other if you apply to the same weapon

[wise plume]

whetstones are nutty gold

[glacial crypt]

get boosting!!

[wise plume]

oh theyre significantly cheaper now, still kinda expensive tho

[late ravine]

You can Apply both to the same wep, is what people are saying, and I am missing out on dmg if it's true

[glacial crypt]

gold is nothingg

[winged widget]

you can't

[fleet pagoda]

nah they overwrite each other

[glacial crypt]

it's very annoying not having any though

[late ravine]

Ah kk

Read it as you could apply both lmao

Kk, doing whetstones then xD

[fleet pagoda]

yeah sorry I misunderstood the confusion

[winged widget]

what happens is: you apply wax. it automatically applies to the main hand first. you wait a bit, then use whetstone. it automatically goes to the offhand

[late ravine]

nah all good, I read the !wax as you could double coat your weps

But 2x whetstones is better yes?

!wax

[prisma monolith]

Bubbling Wax is roughly on par with whetstones and are free. Some caveats:

• Right now having wax applied to your offhand does nothing. Make sure you apply wax first, then apply your whetstone
• The quickest way to farm for wax is pickpocketing the kobolds in front of darkflame cleft
• If you have no idea what any of this is, you need to start the questline with "Brax's Brass Knuckles", then walk into the inn and talk to the vent to start "Go Take Candle". Once you complete the short questline, you can pickpocket wax from the kobolds

[winged widget]

if you die, unequip and reequip the weapon that has wax (should be main hand. it's bugged and apparently it doesn't do anything if applied to offhand)

[glacial crypt]

Whetstones are zero effort and less hassle

[winged widget]

yes

[late ravine]

"Make sure you apply wax first, then apply your whetstone" I read it as double coating kek

[winged widget]

they are

[glacial crypt]

if you're tight on gold the wax obviously makes more sense

[tropic cedar]

if you have the envenom Deathstalker buff do you just open with garrote and then apply mark through envenom after spreading bleeds?

[fleet pagoda]

wax is annoying to manage right now. happier life pretending you don't know about it for the moment

[glacial crypt]

yes

[tropic cedar]

cool thanks

[winged widget]

it's just because they TRIED to make it a quality of life to simply click the oil instead of using it like some sort of enchantment and clicking on the item as well

but they made it a hassle

[late ravine]

Ah I c

Is 1x whetstone and 1x wax more dmg or less

[winged widget]

because if you "click too fast", it registers weird and applies to the same weapon, erasing the first one you used

hella annoying especially when whetstones are expensive as fuck because they require freaking null stones

[fleet pagoda]

last I knew they were at least competitive. safest bet is to just send two whetstones

[reef isle]

where can i find a good ui and assas wa?

[fleet pagoda]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[reef isle]

thanks

[winged widget]

less. double whetstone rank3 is the way.
but wax is competitive enough that the fact that it's free, makes it very viable right now for most people

[late ravine]

Kk ty! Glad they are 1,3k ish now and not 8k as in the start lmao

[runic depot]

what have people used their sparks for besides dagger?

im thinking of making a second dagger since its trailing behind in ilvl

!spark

[soft shale]

boots

[winged widget]

forgot the command. but probably dagger with ascension + wrist/belt/boot with nerub patch

[sterile violet]

!raid damage cuz my raid damage is a joke

[winged widget]

or double dawnthread (the crit one)

[sterile violet]

oh well

[runic depot]

i have the dagger with ascension + pvp belt already

but just have an extra spark lying around

so thought id maybe make an offhand

[winged widget]

offhand, afaik, isn't a priority

as far as power gain goes

but, you know...sim it

[runic depot]

true

having a hard time interpreting this sim https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xbnvvX1zHFenMuezupQoZr

is it saying that crafting an offhand is 25.6k dps gain

[craggy moss]

is this any good for us?

over this

[runic hinge]

[buoyant mauve]

does spatter hit enemies near your target or near you? reading the ferocious bite change got me wondering

[soft shale]

near target

[buoyant mauve]

does it also work poorly with large bosses in that case?

[soft shale]

seems fine on rasha nan and ovi nax so idk

[reef isle]

anyone got zercool wa?

[balmy condor]

It’s 0 dps on rasha’nan don’t talent it

Its massive aoe but its center of hitbox

So it just sucks on omegalarge bosses or shit that’s like off the platform

Same issue with spider boss in vault during awakened season

[oak nacelle]

is assa buffed next big patch?

[shadow badger]

this shit any good?

[balmy condor]

there's a couple talent changes but no tuning yet so no one knows

[paper chasm]

!craft

[prisma monolith]

Preferences currently are wrist/belt/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" in raid, but has ramp time and is worse in m+
2x Dawnthread (wrist/belt) is generally the best in m+ and not far behind of Ascencion/Banding for raids. Equal in single target at 80% uptime

Craft a dagger if you're unlucky and don't get one and are down bad and crying about your pathetic little 580 main hand dagger. Put Ascencion on it
If you have a big dagger in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

[balmy condor]

it's slightly worse than a regular hero track dagger

[shadow badger]

within usable range though? only hero dagger i got rn lol

[arctic tusk]

is best way to sim for M+ stats just do dslice with a grain of salt

[balmy condor]

I mean yeh it's better than a champ dagger

[balmy condor]

yes

and by "m+ stats"

I hope you mean top gear

[arctic tusk]

yea

[balmy condor]

good good

[arctic tusk]

:3

[balmy condor]

if you were simming stat weights I would've clapped those cheeks

[arctic tusk]

is there any outlier I should be aware of that might appear in dslice sim

[balmy condor]

no

[arctic tusk]

kk

tyy

[outer marsh]

are there any plans on supporting wowanalyzer for assass in the future? I know it's early in the expansion, jsut curious

[balmy condor]

no

[sudden phoenix]

!craft

[prisma monolith]

Preferences currently are wrist/belt/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" in raid, but has ramp time and is worse in m+
2x Dawnthread (wrist/belt) is generally the best in m+ and not far behind of Ascencion/Banding for raids. Equal in single target at 80% uptime

Craft a dagger if you're unlucky and don't get one and are down bad and crying about your pathetic little 580 main hand dagger. Put Ascencion on it
If you have a big dagger in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

[turbid crest]

Heya , on packs where mobs are low

do u garrot again ? or just

bcs garrot proc the finisher

thats my overall on arak +7

Is something wrong ? or not

[runic hinge]

looks good

[turbid crest]

some 1 told me with 603 ilvl + no trinket

i could do more dmg

thats the gear , no trinket 0 enchants

0p

@balmy condor do you see something bad ? on dtail order // overall dmg ?

[shut oak]

Do yall use bubbling wax or ironclaw whetstone? Do they go on both weapons?

[runic hinge]

!wax

[prisma monolith]

Bubbling Wax is roughly on par with whetstones and are free. Some caveats:

• Right now having wax applied to your offhand does nothing. Make sure you apply wax first, then apply your whetstone
• The quickest way to farm for wax is pickpocketing the kobolds in front of darkflame cleft
• If you have no idea what any of this is, you need to start the questline with "Brax's Brass Knuckles", then walk into the inn and talk to the vent to start "Go Take Candle". Once you complete the short questline, you can pickpocket wax from the kobolds

[dim yacht]

any other rogues get triggered when they shadowstep a mob and then get hit by a frontal

[turbid crest]

happens on NW

[runic hinge]

Also why does this stupid timewalking ring not let me have a socket

[turbid crest]

the big fear man with cleave

[dim yacht]

dawnbreaker boss too with orb

how hard is it to make a frontal only hit the front

i got got by the cleave of the boneman a few days ago lol

[turbid crest]

how many dps increase with 2p ?? 4p ??

[dim yacht]

because technically its not a tww item

stupid, but thats the answer

[runic hinge]

yeah and now i got a hero ring i can't socket. unfort

[dim yacht]

yup, blows

[vernal turret]

hey there, can somebody tell me what’s the name of the item that adds sockets in gear?

[slate crown]

Magnificent Jeweler's Setting

[vernal turret]

thanks

[silk bane]

hi im simming stat weights

https://tenor.com/view/booty-bootyclap-comegetit-spongbob-square-pants-patrick-gif-5439260

[slate crown]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-spin-bored-gif-15972278

[silk bane]

https://tenor.com/view/gorilla-monke-monkey-spin-ape-gif-25078721

[turbid crest]

qqqqqqqqqqqqq q ''''

[balmy condor]

nerf assa

[runic hinge]

true

[shut oak]

does bubbling wax persist through death

[runic hinge]

not usually

you can un-equip your weapon and re-equip and that seems to work

[elfin escarp]

is bubbling wax just a super buggy mess?

[runic hinge]

!wax

[prisma monolith]

Bubbling Wax (when it works) is roughly on par with whetstones and are free. Some caveats:

• MANY BUGS YEP
• Doesn't stack (only apply to one weapon)
• Sometimes just won't work in offhand (apply it to your left slot, whetstone on the right slot)
• If you die, wax instantly stops working and you have to unequip your dagger and re-equip
• Some hitbox weirdness because it's an AoE effect and it won't actually hit adds, especially on larger bosses
• The quickest way to farm for wax is pickpocketing the kobolds in front of darkflame cleft
• If you have no idea what any of this is, you need to start the questline with ""Brax's Brass Knuckles"", then walk into the inn and talk to the vent to start ""Go Take Candle"". Once you complete the short questline, you can pickpocket wax from the kobolds"

[runic hinge]

sources say yes

[dim yacht]

in aoe for m+, do we want to take the time to reapply ruptures when they fall off after stealth opener, or just reapply to main target were keeping caustic splatter on and keep blasting?

[runic hinge]

depends on if you think they'll live long enough for it to be worth it

like if your tank is gonna chain it can be good to do for energy or just for energy in general but if theyre gonna die in like >10 seconds it's probably not worth

[shut oak]

when you open on a big pack do you tab target around to apply ruptues and garrotes all over, or just stay focused on 1 target and let the indiscriminate carnage and caustic splatter do some of the work?

[runic hinge]

!carnage

[prisma monolith]

Indiscriminate Carnage Targetting and Swapping
TLDRMouseovers/Target swapping is optimal on 6 target, or 8+ targets, but not necessarily required

• The 2 Bleeds spread by carnage are smart and will prioritize mobs without the bleed. If everything already has bleeds it'll apply randomly
• You as the character are still casting the bleed against your target like normal, this is why people will sometimes use mouseover macros or swap targets

Swapping targets is situationally better, but can be ignored if you're having difficulties with it. Take 5 mob aoe as an example, your first garrote cast will apply to 3 targets (your target + 2 more). Regardless of if you swap or not, your second cast of garrote will hit your target, and then apply 2 more garrotes, prioritizing the mobs that do not have garrote. In very large aoe pulls (12 or more), a standard opener (garrote-garrote-rupture-rupture-garrote-garrote) will only apply 9 garrotes (3+2+2+2) and 5 ruptures (3+2) if you do not swap, losing you 3 garrotes and a rupture.

It is technically worse, but the situations in which you lose bleeds aren't very common; the lost ruptures/garrotes don't contribute much to your already flooded energy, you don't get additional scent of blood stacks, etc. The loss is purely the extra damage from those bleeds.

[shut oak]

oh shit i had no idea you can double up on 1 target to apply it

thats incredible thank you!

[waxen oyster]

bleed everythiing then spatter off a big mob is likely the play at a real key level

[shut oak]

so 5-6 targets you can just double garrote/rupture 1 target, and they will all get the bleeds on them

[woven torrent]

inside the Mists Labyrinth i always get pulled out of stealth how can i avoid that

[slate crown]

LOCK THE FUCK IN

[grave osprey]

Technically two ruptures and two garrotes on the same target.

[waxen oyster]

6 targets wouldnt be gotten with only 2

[balmy condor]

I'm in agony

and I'm not even playing it

I'm just watching exile play some incredibly tight transmitter timings

and it hurts

[slate crown]

this could be the one

[balmy condor]

he's 2 seconds behind on trinkets

[slate crown]

yeah I heard about what he's doing for the mandates

[balmy condor]

I'm so sorry

[slate crown]

[shut oak]

yee thats what i mean by double up. 2 of each!

i was tab targetting like an idiot trying to find the ones that didnt have bleeds lol good lord

[runic hinge]

it was good

[haughty flicker]

wtf echo has medic casting

i havent watched their stream until now

[surreal wedge]

can I equip 2 embellishment crafted items?

[ripe carbon]

2 max

[wild nest]

Yes

[wild nest]

This has been bugging me as well

[blazing pumice]

yes, just hang back and wait for tank to pull

they break on proximity when they spawn

[wild nest]

Thanks

[boreal pond]

Whens a good time to swap from Sudden demise for aoe?

[viral moat]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lament stump]

there a server command for macros ?

[ripe carbon]

theres tricks macro

!tott

[prisma monolith]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[ripe carbon]

type !help and itll give u all commands

[random sandal]

!tott

[prisma monolith]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[runic depot]

whats that macro do?

also why doesnt aoe blind work

on affix

[sinful fable]

it works but you cant cast it directly on the adds

so if you target a non-affix mob in the area and use aoe blind, they get removed

[spice spire]

Also iron wire does work on them and so does ic

[turbid crest]

is some1 have the cd on nameplate

M+ ?

please

[vocal quail]

hello all ! i know this question was asked a lot but : what's the % stat for crit haste mast ? thanks

[astral plover]

The only real way to see it, is to sim yourself

[honest pelican]

Don't think there's an exact stat just sim yourself go eith whays higher dps

[astral plover]

cuz there is a lot of things that changes

[vocal quail]

im siming all time every item 😄

[vocal quail]

ok doing right then

so i just need to focus on "bis" item, and after ive got one, just sim and wait & see

[astral plover]

the weights changes from hero talents aswell

Yes and no, Crit mastery is always gonna be "bis". but u dont want to neglet the other stats either

[fallow sonnet]

does it make sense if i have 606 bracers with socket to put my 2nd embellishment (my first is on waist) in cloak spot (double dawnthread lining) because cloak is a better upgrade rn

or is it like def bracer waist?

[glacial arch]

!craft

[prisma monolith]

Preferences currently are wrist/belt/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" in raid, but has ramp time and is worse in m+
2x Dawnthread (wrist/belt) is generally the best in m+ and not far behind of Ascencion/Banding for raids. Equal in single target at 80% uptime

Craft a dagger if you're unlucky and don't get one and are down bad and crying about your pathetic little 580 main hand dagger. Put Ascencion on it
If you have a big dagger in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

[fallow sonnet]

!craft doesnt answer my question

[prisma monolith]

Preferences currently are wrist/belt/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" in raid, but has ramp time and is worse in m+
2x Dawnthread (wrist/belt) is generally the best in m+ and not far behind of Ascencion/Banding for raids. Equal in single target at 80% uptime

Craft a dagger if you're unlucky and don't get one and are down bad and crying about your pathetic little 580 main hand dagger. Put Ascencion on it
If you have a big dagger in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

[astral plover]

You can always sim it, cuz i think it depends on the other options u have

[glass hemlock]

The answer is probably still bracers as the cloak from drops is good gear. But you can always craft the bracers for optimal stats depending on your current spread

[ocean ferry]

Hey during indiscriminated carnage should I spread as many garrotes as possible? Or only until my rupture is spreaded ?

[fallow sonnet]

ive found that even in huge packs what i do is get 2-3 garrotes and ruptures up and then crimson tempest into mutilate envenom spam cause if i spend too much time applying a million garrotes and ruptures i dont get enough dmg time from crimson tempest and caustic splatter

im not the greatest rogue tho still learning myself

just personal anecdote

[ocean ferry]

Yeah that’s why I ask in big packs it takes so long to spread all them

[short sedge]

It doesn't

You have 6 globals in IC if I'm not mistaken

[iron tree]

Is there a name for the issue I have when I'm trying to click buttons and it's delayed each time I press a spell, the border of the spell glows as u click it, stays outlined for .5 seconds then casts? Or is it just my internet

[nocturne quail]

Hypothetically if a pack was going to live forever, I’d get as many garrote and rupture out during IC as possible. Energy energy energy and also garrote for the silences, and then CT, kingsbane window, blast envenom and spatter

But if pack won’t live long enough for you to get full Kingsbane window then just get the 5 ruptures out and go go go

[woven torrent]

@iron tree i think u mean Spell Queue Window

[nocturne quail]

I’m 2400 doing 10’s, progging 11’s and thats my strat

[short sedge]

Assuming you have SBS and are playing deathstalker, you do Ambush > Garrote > Rupture (SBS) > Rupture > Garrote > Garrote

Then your window ends and you put CT, splatter and blast

[iron tree]

I saw that was a recommended thing to change, will try it and hopefully it fixes it.

[short sedge]

You only want max benefit from scent of blood which is 5 targets

But you can get 6 for the same amount of globals if you use your spells on the right targets

[ocean ferry]

so we rather spread all garrotes in that window before entering cds?

[short sedge]

Assuming you have enough target that are going to live

[arctic tusk]

if you rupture and get back all ur combo points but still have targets to garrote would you just send the rupture or overcap and keep doing garrotes

[hollow moss]

What’s SBS?

[woven torrent]

Serrated bone spikes @hollow moss

[fathom cove]

on a 3 target sim, why does it use 3 garrotes here?

[hollow moss]

Ahh did not think of that, thanks

[fathom cove]

is it just as a builder because of Shrouded Suffocation?

Also question about dot snapshotting, havent played WoW in a couple years, maybe something changed. Im assuming buffs like Blood Fury on Orc dont snapshot into dots. But I guess there are some snapshotting mechanics like Improved Garrote and Shrouded Suffocation?

[chilly mist]

That would be my guess yes, whats the duration of the sim?

[fathom cove]

regular 5 mins
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6Q5Xb8TEfkp3mGNJQR2oYs

[chilly mist]

And yeah snapshotting doesnt work, improved garrote isnt technically snapshotting

[fathom cove]

I guess this answers this question, because thats what I was looking at and comparing to what the example roation in sims does:
#1065730164077645916 message

[balmy condor]

correct

in aoe it's used as a builder because 3x pandemic is pretty value for a gcd

[uneven marsh]

!plater

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[balmy condor]

in single target it's not because 1x pandemic is pretty dogshit for a gcd

[nova yew]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[fathom cove]

Ok, what I dont understand yet is how exactly Shrouded Suffocation works. Tooltip says "from stealth", in the sim it isnt in Stealth though. Is Shrouded Suffocation active after Stealth for a time like Improved Garrote is?

[balmy condor]

yes, they are linked

shrouded technically augments improved garrote

[fathom cove]

👌

[balmy condor]

which does some cursed shit

like if for some ungodly reason you take shrouded but not improved garrote

the extra cp straight up don't work

because shrouded just is an addition on top of improved garrote in the code

[fathom cove]

Blizz polish :)

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean like it'll never happen

but it's funny

[polar rampart]

kek, i feel that 90% of the skill at playing outlaw is playing around the bugs

[chilly mist]

@balmy condor Is crimson tempest worth for single target damage if you manage to get it fully buffed? Example would be to crimson tempest if you get Xal'Atath's Bargain orbs spawn on boss

[balmy condor]

funny enough, it would be worth without the orbs, but it wouldn't be with the orbs

[fathom cove]

there is that:
actions.core_dot+=/crimson_tempest,if=effective_combo_points>=variable.effective_spend_cp&refreshable&buff.momentum_of_despair.remains>6&variable.single_target
basically worth on ST if buffed by Momentum of Despair

[balmy condor]

yeah but I would generally warn against just ooga booga copy pasting sim apl

I try to keep the assa apl to a playable level but some of the lines are set up in ways that aren't playable because it's a dumb robot and needs to be told what to do

[runic depot]

@balmy condor hey man

would you rec i craft a 619 off-hand dagger if ive already crafted main hand + belt embellish

to boost up my 590 offhand ilvl

[balmy condor]

probably a sim angle

[chilly mist]

0.0. I'm not great with stuff, could you give a tldr of why that is?

with sim stuff*

[runic depot]

i simmed it earlier but i had no idea how to interpret it lol

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xbnvvX1zHFenMuezupQoZr

is this saying that offhand is 25k dps boost

[balmy condor]

yeah so the line that yuu linked is some really cringe shit and the logic is basically:

• if you don't have vicious venoms talented, consume clear the witnesses in single target (+0.2%)
• if you consume clear the witness and the fok that consumes it crits, you get momentum of despair. If you have momentum of despair, you would then want to crimson tempest in single target (+0.2%)

tracking momentum of despair is entirely useless outside of that one application

so generally I just don't recommend it

because actually who gives a shit

but if you're a cringelord, that's the logic, track your momentum of despair and go wild

[balmy condor]

no, that's a stiletto, it's saying that the dagger craft is 12k

[runic depot]

ah... so its hardly an upgrade then over the amulet

[balmy condor]

this is looking like a pretty good option

amulet or replacing your vers ring

from the looks of things

[runic depot]

yeah thats probably what ill do then

cheers

[bronze pike]

Hey whispyr

Hypothetically

If crimson tempest ended up being your best st spender

Hypothetically

How would u cope?

[balmy condor]

easy

I would play a different spec

[bronze pike]

Ah yes

Ty this will be great info for now

[balmy condor]

frost shard sanctum of domination made me throw my monitor out the fucking window

I played sub the whole tier to avoid playing frost shards

[bronze pike]

Divine storm is our main st spender for ret now

I am not taking it well

[cunning needle]

wym you don't enjoy pressing divine storm 7 times in a row?

[balmy condor]

there's probably rants you could search up that I did at the time and a screenshot where I did a nerzul with assa because my chat was screaming at me to do a pull as frost shard assa

[cunning needle]

it's actually such peak gameplay

[balmy condor]

and I crit 0/14 frost shards

and instantly specced back to sub

[dapper zodiac]

Someone knows why our blind is so stupid w the new m+ affix? Or how to use it properly bc most of the time it just goes single blind and not aoe how it should be

[bronze pike]

Sorry, I’m not a baby that likes shoving the circle peg into a square hole

[balmy condor]

I love crit based borrowed power being either 15% of my damage or 5% of my damage

[sturdy plank]

This

[balmy condor]

you can't aoe blind orbs, you have to blind a mob and have it spread to orbs

[raw zephyr]

Would really appreciate an advice here, How do you position yourselves in Mythic+ pulls when the tank doesn’t let you restealth? Is there a build we can rely on? Help, m+ has become such a frustrating activity because of that

[balmy condor]

but even then there's range and z axis issues

orbs are just simply not your problem

[dapper zodiac]

yee but sonetimes it still goes single on mobs do we have to stand in the middle of the orbs whispyr?

[sturdy plank]

Pretty unfair that other aoe interrupts don't work that way. Only us

[dapper zodiac]

Or does our aoe blind just go in a cone behind the mob we target

[sturdy plank]

Play caustic spatter hehe

[balmy condor]

you thank the tank for giving you more dps and you just rupture mobs on your way into the new pack and go on with your life enjoying the benefits of increased uptime on mobs and increased damage :)

[chilly mist]

Ah I see, ty for clarification. Also watched both your videos around assass. Really good stuff!

big advocate of chain pulling now 😉

[balmy condor]

aoe blind is an aoe around the mob you cast the blind on, but it fucking sucks

nothing to do about it

just a bad button for killing orbs

[dapper zodiac]

Ok ty so far :)

[balmy condor]

again, not your problem

[dapper zodiac]

true

[fathom cove]

I also need some assistance as Im trying to figure out AoE rotation in the first 6 seconds after Stealth. If I have Darkest Night up, should I still open with Ambush, or should I use more Garrotes + Rupture and apply Deathstalker's Mark with an empowered Envenom?

[balmy condor]

augvoker job

[glass hemlock]

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why stealth benefits aren't as important as you might think:

• Garrote is roughly 10-12% of people's damage in a key, most of which is already empowered/cleaved
• Most energy spreading will come from Rupture to maintain scent of blood, not garrote
• Without a Trace (+1 vanish charge) only grants roughly 2 additional casts across a whole dungeon
• While Without a Trace can allow for better vanish timings, the difference in damage provided is at most replacing a non-stealth opener with a stealth opener (you aren't necessarily getting "added" casts, just "better" casts)
• You can argue that it "feels bad", but numerically there is very little ground to stand on, the dps simply isn't there.

[glass hemlock]

My fave

[elder bolt]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1283842520308256858/image.png

[fathom cove]

Ah yeah, its right there, ty :D

[balmy condor]

np

[woven torrent]

So using gar as builder from stealth can be applied to any pac size and basilcy at any pull ?

the 2x after rup

[nova wave]

!wax

[prisma monolith]

Bubbling Wax (when it works) is roughly on par with whetstones and are free. Some caveats:

• MANY BUGS YEP
• Doesn't stack (only apply to one weapon)
• Sometimes just won't work in offhand (apply it to your left slot, whetstone on the right slot)
• If you die, wax instantly stops working and you have to unequip your dagger and re-equip
• Some hitbox weirdness because it's an AoE effect and it won't actually hit adds, especially on larger bosses
• The quickest way to farm for wax is pickpocketing the kobolds in front of darkflame cleft
• If you have no idea what any of this is, you need to start the questline with ""Brax's Brass Knuckles"", then walk into the inn and talk to the vent to start ""Go Take Candle"". Once you complete the short questline, you can pickpocket wax from the kobolds"

[arctic tusk]

lets say you need to garrote 3 times to get an entire pack, would you garrote twice rupture > bone spike rupture again and finish garroting after

[quartz cloak]

Yes

Then CT next

[molten echo]

Is dawnthread lining the obv choice embellishment for a dagger if not having writhing armor banding as the other embellishment? I main outlaw currently but contemplating making a dagger for OH so I can also play assa in some boss fights/M+.

[quartz cloak]

Then mutilate for caustic spatter

[fathom cove]

if you want to use it on both specs, then crit is generally a good idea

[snow kindle]

how come when i quick sim and look at sample ability log they thistled 7 seven times

in a span of 3minutes

[balmy condor]

variance probably

[snow kindle]

is there anywhere i can look up info why vicious venoms vs imp poisons/sanguine

[cobalt spoke]

Hello, sorry to ask again. But I don't know which embellishment to choose between the blue patch and the dagger

[balmy condor]

imp gar/sang is just cause the bug

[cobalt spoke]

I think dagger its better because the buff is always up

[balmy condor]

if they fix the mark, you'd never play imp gar

[cobalt spoke]

But I prefer ask

[balmy condor]

do you raid?

[cobalt spoke]

Yes

[balmy condor]

then craft ascension dagger

[cobalt spoke]

Thanks you

[snow kindle]

so is vicious ven just always the play

[balmy condor]

dawnthread notably better in m+ but probably only reasonable if you're a heavy m+ gamer

or not prog gaming

[balmy condor]

when they fix the bug yeah

but it's very gear dependant

rn you can just kinda play whatever

when they fix bug, you always play vicious

[snow kindle]

I see i aassume with sang we play like old sin where we want to stay above 50?

[balmy condor]

under 50

[snow kindle]

pause we go under 50 even though we have sanguine blades?

[lethal arrow]

if ur not desperately mashing mutilate to get ur next envenom off ur playing it wrong

[balmy condor]

yes

[snow kindle]

ok ty

[balmy condor]

good game

[wispy apex]

Is Oil of deep toxins worth using? I'm looking for a cheaper alternative to Ironclaw.

[balmy condor]

I mean if you're looking for cheaper then just use anything you can get your hands on

[chilly mist]

!bugs

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Bug tracker: https://github.com/SimCMinMax/WoW-BugTracker/labels/Rogue

[vale lantern]

how do yall deal with first boss knocking you outta stealth in City of Threads?

do u just bite the bullet and vanish or is there a trick

[chilly mist]

Are you refering to the Darkest Night Vanish-ambush here? Haven't heard of the Vicious bug

[balmy condor]

yes

[chilly mist]

Cool cool

[native topaz]

Why are ppl using Fan of Knives sometimes on ST? Is it if they get a mechanic and are out of range for Mutilate etc?

[wind jungle]

Deathstalker talent

[chilly mist]

Just make sure you have darkest night before pulling

Alternatively I'll just ask tank to let me pull with evasion

[vale lantern]

sadly we wiped so its not an option 😦

[chilly mist]

Ah sucks

[vale lantern]

this is good ill try this

[native topaz]

Clear the Witness?

[quartz cloak]

Can shroud team so you get close with them and shadowstep ambush fast

[chilly mist]

It's a bit int on higher keys i guess but it works 😄

[vale lantern]

time to int the 9 XD

[vale lantern]

tried that but out hunter was trigger happy

[chilly mist]

Mm

[raw zephyr]

Mind sharing your build?:) or just the basic caustic

[quartz cloak]

Well I guess in rare cases where you die before boss it doesn’t really matter if you use vanish then

[chilly mist]

Unfortunately there seems to be a few of those weird anti-rogue things in these dungeons, make sure to report to blizz in hopes it gets looked at 🙂

[turbid crest]

hey wich token we take ? with 2kio

wich part ?

is head better coz of ilvl ?

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[normal mist]

Choose a piece to replace your worst current slot. We can use all 5 pieces and it doesn't matter as much as you think

[runic depot]

!wax

[prisma monolith]

Bubbling Wax (when it works) is roughly on par with whetstones and are free. Some caveats:

• MANY BUGS YEP
• Doesn't stack (only apply to one weapon)
• Sometimes just won't work in offhand (apply it to your left slot, whetstone on the right slot)
• If you die, wax instantly stops working and you have to unequip your dagger and re-equip
• Some hitbox weirdness because it's an AoE effect and it won't actually hit adds, especially on larger bosses
• The quickest way to farm for wax is pickpocketing the kobolds in front of darkflame cleft
• If you have no idea what any of this is, you need to start the questline with ""Brax's Brass Knuckles"", then walk into the inn and talk to the vent to start ""Go Take Candle"". Once you complete the short questline, you can pickpocket wax from the kobolds"

[chilly mist]

While you wait for pickpocket cd outside of the dungeon you can run follower Darkflame cleft and pickpocket the first 2 rooms, sped it up for me a bit

[vale lantern]

oit worked really well ty 😄

[strange comet]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ancient rain]

what do yall do when u have to hit the max cp evis for deathstalker and you're at -1 cp? do you just mutilate or fok for that CP or play normal or smth else

[normal mist]

mutilate

or garrote if in pandemic

[plush hazel]

And kind of related question, is there a best cp number to spam envenom, taking into account we try to never lose the buff?

[vestal cliff]

can somebody tell me when to go resounding clarity and when second point into lethality?

[balmy condor]

all finishers 5+

[balmy condor]

yeah so you go resounding clarity if you're playing deathstalker, and you go double lethality if you're a time traveler playing 2 weeks ago

[vestal cliff]

XD thank you

[balmy condor]

np

[heavy moss]

can someone help me with crafting order and embelishments? ty in advance

[trail relic]

I know Sims arent that meaningful, but are there any ways to measure the impact of the Whetstone Consumables? On my last Sims the Sims without the Whetstone had more dmg 😄

[meager shuttle]

with the new poisoned pack ring do we want to use Vicious Venoms ?

[balmy condor]

if you're focused on progging raids, craft ascension + writhing band, if you're an m+ one trick craft double dawnthread

[heavy moss]

ty

[balmy condor]

there's an import in the #tc-research pins you can just plop at the end of your /simc

[balmy condor]

the ring is just extra bonus damage your talents and your rotation have 0 impact

[vapid geode]

does assa have a crit cap?

[balmy condor]

100%

[vapid geode]

this sim is telling me a vers mast ring is better than crit versring. i lose 5% crit and gain 3% mast on the tradeout

[balmy condor]

happens

[royal lantern]

turns out, when you play a spec that is OK with all stats, sims try to get stats you kinda ignored

[vapid geode]

so maybe its pulling in the lack of vers into the equation?

bc its vers heavy ring

[balmy condor]

it's literally just comparing the items

and your vers ring is better

[vapid geode]

i feel like im hardly critting at 29% lmao

[balmy condor]

gg

[vapid geode]

okay

tyhank u

[vernal turret]

it depends on actual stat diminishing, it you pass threshold stat lose weight a bit

[balmy condor]

who cares about thresholds

[light merlin]

i have so few binds as sin I am literally sitting here contemplating what to bind on 1

[balmy condor]

mut on 1

[royal lantern]

what else are you playing that has more binds

like, assa is nothign special overall in the regard, not more or less then others

[zealous wolf]

is the spelunker's waning candle worth using? it sims better than sac for me but idk if the sims take the sharing of the buff in consideration?

[balmy condor]

it does not

the sim doesn't have other people to share with

since you're just simming yourself

but like, if you're sharing it

chances are you're sharing it with other melee and the tank

so maybe a bit worse I guess

[zealous wolf]

i dont like sharing

🙂

top is ritual knife and the candle

i guess crystal is best then if you dont want to share crit

[balmy condor]

probably

[cedar hare]

Whats the current crit cap?

[balmy condor]

100%

any more than that and crit doesn't benefit you

:)

[cedar hare]

So not any soft cap?

[balmy condor]

no, there is a soft cap

70%! cause master assassin is 30%

:)

[zealous wolf]

is the tooltip on raidbots bugged or it counts as 5k crit for sims?

[balmy condor]

it's tooltip jank

[zealous wolf]

kk

[balmy condor]

raidbots pulls tooltips from wowhead

and wowhead tooltips are a mess

because blizzards spelldata

is a mess

[real pike]

yo dumbass question guys does atrophic poison stack? like if we have multiple rogues in the raid does the boss do multiple less damages

[balmy condor]

but it all sims fine

[thin furnace]

Tooltip didn't crit

[balmy condor]

it did in season 4 dragonflight but was untested since

[zealous wolf]

no

30 rogues raid and the boss does 0dmg

xd

[real pike]

not if it's multiplicative?

[chilly mist]

rogue tank finally a reality in retail too

[balmy condor]

it is multiplicative

I think it still works

but it's not good enough to stack rogues

neat thought experiment for like 40 man lfr I guess

[zealous wolf]

dafuq is this

[real pike]

yeah interesting one

[zealous wolf]

xd

[honest needle]

let me ask if we have alot of mobs and carnage ends do we still apply garrote and rupture to all the other adds manually ? before getting into rotation because if i do that adds are dead by the time i crimson tempost and do my kingsbane n stuff ?

or after opener and carnage ends can we just go into rotation and leave the other adds without it ?

[normal mist]

Just rupture up to 5. CT and go into caustic mode

[royal lantern]

i will say "Im going into caustic mode" now everytime im doing aoe

[radiant raven]

lmao, hell yeah

[crude sequoia]

what a gamer chair i have

[radiant raven]

Make a WA that does a /yell whenever you proc it on a mob

[strange python]

636 embelishment wrists or go for a ring that i cant fkn get to ever drop lol

[crude sequoia]

the ring will drop

the embellishment won’t

[strange python]

true lol

so send the wrists ey

[crude sequoia]

i would

[craggy dagger]

do we use authority of storms on both weapons ST/m+?

depths*

[crude sequoia]

that’s what sim adviced me to go for

so i did

[honest needle]

so right after opener and IC ends i can go caustic mode i dont need to keep apply dots to other adds ?

[craggy dagger]

I wonder..

[strange python]

why authority of storms?

[honest needle]

also its good to save vanish for the next pack incase tanks dont let me stealth correct alot of them dont let me restealth they just keep chaining

[crude sequoia]

worst part of being rogue, you tell them you can either contribute 300k dps or 1m+ depending on them waiting for the last 500k hp of the mob going down before chaining the next pull

and

they

[dawn heath]

Anyone feel like they're lagging when they play rogue? spell qeueing feels off sometimes it queues multiple FOK's etc when i press another button

[crude sequoia]

don’t

listen

[crude sequoia]

not here

[novel star]

? we don’t use that

oh nvm i see

[strange python]

yeah didntr think so lol

[crude sequoia]

he corrected himself to depths

[strange python]

damn ring is juicy though 30k dps...

[novel star]

not in m+ no

radiant power is better in m+

[craggy dagger]

so if I did 2x depths as icyveins pinned guide from here said, I did mistake?

[strange python]

ive got 2 with depths for raid and 1h with depts and offhand with radiant for m+ working on that 2nd dagger

[crude sequoia]

i guess if you want to min max, idk?

[novel star]

if you only ever play m+ then yah radiant would’ve been better but it’s not the end of the world

you still have one of two good enchants instead of some random garbage one

[craggy dagger]

so for m+ radiant of power + Depths?

[keen pumice]

!craft

[prisma monolith]

Preferences currently are wrist/belt/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" in raid, but has ramp time and is worse in m+
2x Dawnthread (wrist/belt) is generally the best in m+ and not far behind of Ascencion/Banding for raids. Equal in single target at 80% uptime

Craft a dagger if you're unlucky and don't get one and are down bad and crying about your pathetic little 580 main hand dagger. Put Ascencion on it
If you have a big dagger in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

[novel star]

for m+ you just stack 2 radiant

[craggy dagger]

So I need 3 daggers -.-

[spice surge]

""""need"""""

[novel star]

or you can not care lol

it’s not that bad

[spice surge]

The differences are really minor

[novel star]

yea

[balmy condor]

you need 6 daggers and 4 wist weapons and then also a 1h sword for outlaw transmog and 5 swaps of gear gemmed and statted for assa m+, assa st, sub st, sub m+, and outlaw

chop chop get to it

no whining about crests or flightstones

[novel star]

wist

[balmy condor]

wist

[glacial stump]

With sin am I supposed to be spamming envenom when I can or am I looking energy and waiting for it to be in epidemic window

[novel star]

waiting

[glacial stump]

Obviously when I’m not I doing other things, in burst etc

[wide hawk]

!wax

[prisma monolith]

Bubbling Wax (when it works) is roughly on par with whetstones and are free. Some caveats:

• MANY BUGS YEP
• Doesn't stack (only apply to one weapon)
• Sometimes just won't work in offhand (apply it to your left slot, whetstone on the right slot)
• If you die, wax instantly stops working and you have to unequip your dagger and re-equip
• Some hitbox weirdness because it's an AoE effect and it won't actually hit adds, especially on larger bosses
• The quickest way to farm for wax is pickpocketing the kobolds in front of darkflame cleft
• If you have no idea what any of this is, you need to start the questline with ""Brax's Brass Knuckles"", then walk into the inn and talk to the vent to start ""Go Take Candle"". Once you complete the short questline, you can pickpocket wax from the kobolds"

[novel star]

unless you’re going to overcap energy (or go above 150 on sanguine deathstalker) you just wait

[past marten]

the wax message getting longer and longer haha

[glacial stump]

Okay great thanks, really weird coming from sub and not sending stuff, feels like I’m playing wrong lol

[devout schooner]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[glacial stump]

Going from everything doing instant big dam to DoT stuff

[novel star]

sub and outlaw just mash the keyboard like every other spec in the game

sin boomer class

[past marten]

Do we want to be below or above 150 when specced into Sanguine?

[subtle tundra]

how are my stast? help

[novel star]

below

[subtle tundra]

assa rogue

[past marten]

I am generally trying to figure out whether to play SB or VV

[novel star]

you take it and then don’t play around it because it’s worse to do so

[past marten]

lol

[novel star]

the lost energy means less envenoms so less mark pops and worse overall dmg

game sucks

[past marten]

my gut feeling tells me that SB might be better than VV whenever there's mechanics forcing you off the boss

or is that wrong because of the lost energy?

"lost energy"

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/pipebomb-gif-21727153

[balmy condor]

how long are you off the boss for gods sake

[bleak spoke]

I’d pipe u whispyr

[past marten]

depends on whether my take away arrives during the pull or not

[balmy condor]

sanguine probably better if you're off the boss for like 20+ seconds

and overcapping energy

but if you're off the boss for that long

you got way bigger issues

[bleak spoke]

20+ is wild

[past marten]

With my current gear, both options sim more or less the same

Hence the question

[chilly mist]

So is the idea with Sanguine blades that its functioning when you send cooldowns but then ignored outside? If we're talking an M+ boss for instance

[balmy condor]

sanguine is probably harder to play in general

[balmy condor]

yes

[bleak spoke]

That’s the thing right it’s like if you’re off the boss with vv, you’re probably not capping energy anyway so in a sense you’re pooling

[novel star]

too much vers noob

[dense cloud]

!craft

[prisma monolith]

Preferences currently are wrist/belt/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" in raid, but has ramp time and is worse in m+
2x Dawnthread (wrist/belt) is generally the best in m+ and not far behind of Ascencion/Banding for raids. Equal in single target at 80% uptime

Craft a dagger if you're unlucky and don't get one and are down bad and crying about your pathetic little 580 main hand dagger. Put Ascencion on it
If you have a big dagger in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

[novel star]

i like playing vicious so i can simply always pool forever and not care

[balmy condor]

ya like assa's whole thing is big energy slow energy

you would have to be

[novel star]

makes things so relaxing man

[chilly mist]

Dont think we really care about it too much unlike dks or casters, just sim 🙂

[balmy condor]

INSANELY slow

on mechanics

in order to every have it be an issue

[bleak spoke]

Sanguine feels nice in key though

[novel star]

i mean it’s gross when it’s active perma in aoe yeh

[balmy condor]

like actually asleep in fucking timbuktu jerking yourself off waiting for the boss to die

[novel star]

i do this ❤️

[balmy condor]

at that point just play a ranged dps

[novel star]

like what

[past marten]

I don't get the snark lol, it was a genuine question about the differences in performance

[balmy condor]

what snark

[past marten]

your snark

[balmy condor]

I'm just talking

my message wasn't even replying to something you said

[bleak spoke]

The only really annoying thing to me is that it just feels nice to have shrouded garrote and such

[balmy condor]

eh idk

[novel star]

does it

[balmy condor]

doesn't bother me much

I get ER out earlier

that's pretty cool

[novel star]

i like not having to vanish for deeps

it’s relaxing

[balmy condor]

also true yeah

[tawny geyser]

Algari Mana Oil is fine?
Considering Whetstones are like 1.5k a piece.

[novel star]

yep

mana oil good

[bleak spoke]

But I feel a sense of deja vu, like I said this 5 years ago when we moved off SS as an azerite trait for a patch

[raw cobalt]

hey, is it worth getting full combopoints if u are 6 and DN is up?

[spice surge]

Yes

Mutilate again

[wild nest]

Everytime pre sure

[raw cobalt]

nice tyty

[novel star]

mhm

[bleak spoke]

Wait muti over fok?

Oh no

[novel star]

mhm

[bleak spoke]

I have been casting fok because I was like this is the least expensive thing

[tawny geyser]

Are we gonna be getting the 100k unlimited Rune this season?

[bleak spoke]

[spice surge]

Doubt it, its typically reserved for the last raid of the expac

[wild nest]

I mean depends on the situation I suppose

[balmy condor]

yeh

that's a season 3 thing

[novel star]

you risk overcap either way so just spend energy on the better damage on mut

[tawny geyser]

yeah figured

[chilly mist]

Would love a 50k unlimited rune 😄

pretty anti alt when u have to send 100k on 4-5 chars

[balmy condor]

can still use the dragonflight one I think right?

or did they level lock it

[spice surge]

"Have to"

[tawny geyser]

well considering the Warbound is a thing now, maybe they let us share it or smt?

[bleak spoke]

Yeh that’s fair

[spice surge]

Ye you can use the df one

But its 86 agi instead of 733

[chilly mist]

true, would be sick

[spice surge]

Which is slightly less

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean 86 agi I don't have otherwise

well

not "me"

I don't have the reusable df rune either

[bleak spoke]

Me neither

[novel star]

[balmy condor]

I had enough for p3 fyrakk attempts

and then never used again

[bleak spoke]

I think I have the shadowlands one? That’s 5 agi I didn’t have, probably

[novel star]

[balmy condor]

oh I might have that one I think

maybe

[long void]

83 agi > 100k to stack 50 runes

[balmy condor]

I'm not actually sure

[bleak spoke]

Tbh I probably deleted it

[balmy condor]

ya

[bleak spoke]

But might be in the bank

I have all manners of worthless stuff

[wild nest]

I can’t be the only one who deletes all the xpac stuff the week before a new one

[chilly mist]

Whats the recommended setup for weapon buffs if you aren't willing to buy whetstones. Wax - Mana oil? Or is double mana oil better?

[balmy condor]

wax is better than the alternatives but you'd have to deal with the infinity bugs

[chilly mist]

yeah im trying to keep my sanity in check ty

[balmy condor]

so probably just double anything is fine

[chilly mist]

cool cool

[balmy condor]

don't even need to really use weapon oils in heroic or first 3 mythic tbh

it's like 1.2% combined for both or something giga shit like that

[wild nest]

But muh parses

[balmy condor]

consumables this expansion are fucking awful

[spice surge]

Everything this expansion is expensive too

[chilly mist]

yeah ik... im a sucker for minmaxing unfortunately

[bleak spoke]

I generally save stuff with sentimental value I guess. Black bruise, diver’s folly, coral, some sland leggos I liked, some dflight tier pieces etc

[spice surge]

New ring? Thats gonna be 70k in gems and enchants

[bleak spoke]

I don’t know why whetstones require a null stone

Like

[wild nest]

Oh for sure I’m with you on that - but gear if it ain’t legendary or was super rad I’m yeeting it

[bleak spoke]

Literally what even, Mr. Blizzard

[wild nest]

Did the change to amount created even bring down the price?

[warped hawk]

!wax

[prisma monolith]

Bubbling Wax (when it works) is roughly on par with whetstones and are free. Some caveats:

• MANY BUGS YEP
• Doesn't stack (only apply to one weapon)
• Sometimes just won't work in offhand (apply it to your left slot, whetstone on the right slot)
• If you die, wax instantly stops working and you have to unequip your dagger and re-equip
• Some hitbox weirdness because it's an AoE effect and it won't actually hit adds, especially on larger bosses
• The quickest way to farm for wax is pickpocketing the kobolds in front of darkflame cleft
• If you have no idea what any of this is, you need to start the questline with ""Brax's Brass Knuckles"", then walk into the inn and talk to the vent to start ""Go Take Candle"". Once you complete the short questline, you can pickpocket wax from the kobolds"

[bleak spoke]

I think I have some stuff i have to type delete too, like idk like the gems from sanctum

[balmy condor]

significantly I think

they were insane before

now they're just like

annoying

[wild nest]

I remember first week of raid they were like 5k or some shit and I was like nah I’m good

[bleak spoke]

Rank 2 oil it is

[balmy condor]

they're like 1500 I think now

[wild nest]

That’s still kind of ass but trending in the right direction

[bleak spoke]

How much are flasks now

[wild nest]

That’s still like 6k a raid night? No thanks honestly

For 1.2% difference

[balmy condor]

whetstones are closer to 2%

but yeah

[bleak spoke]

Tbh biggest value are probably flask and pots

[balmy condor]

yeh

those are pretty cheap

[spice surge]

R3 pots arent cheap

R2 is fine

[bleak spoke]

R2 pots are barely worse

They’re still worse which is annoying

[balmy condor]

yeah you just full use r2's

nearly no reason to use r3 unless you're progging ky'veza atm

[novel star]

this xpac is a r2 everything forever vibe

for me

not gonna reach any insane bosses early enough where it rly matters

[wild nest]

Yeah they kinda made crafting a little worse this xpac in that regard

[bleak spoke]

The problem is that I think there are some things you still have to concentrate for even with full better profession gear, like the 300 acuity pieces

[balmy condor]

I don't get why concentration exists

[bleak spoke]

Yeh

It’s annoying

[novel star]

blizzard

[spice surge]

To give crafting value, even after youve maxxed stuff out

[wild nest]

“20k tip because I have to use so much concentration” GTFO

[chilly mist]

isnt it mainly an early season thing? later on people will be able to r5 craft with r2 mats?

[spice surge]

Way better than the random proc we had in df

[chilly mist]

havent looked into it all that much

[spice surge]

Nop

[chilly mist]

uff

[bleak spoke]

I guess it’s fair enough

[balmy condor]

depends on if they expand it in 11.1 or not

if this is what we're getting then we're screwed

[bleak spoke]

If that’s what they want from the game then they’ve done it

[wild nest]

Is there a date for 11.0.5

[balmy condor]

november

[wild nest]

I need that t2 set

[subtle tundra]

bleed build feels more fluid than hybrid

and does same dps

cool

[wild nest]

Man going to be a good month between the patch and Poe 2

[subtle tundra]

(in low keys)

[balmy condor]

isn't it literally the same rotation

[novel star]

[novel star]

[subtle tundra]

2 shivs blindside