#assassination

1 messages · Page 1147 of 1

royal lantern
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and the best thing

higher cooking skill= you sometimes craft 3 instead of 1 item by default

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its supposed to yes

its bugged for Deathstalker and doesnt work with the mark

dusk sun
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Yea kinda figured it out that my 4th cp ani is hitting like a wet noodle, what a sad bug

deft radish
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hopefully it will be fixed before raid (hopium)

winged basin
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seeing my character only have 2% haste is so funny to me for some reason

kind siren
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!restealth

prisma monolithBOT
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Explanation of why stealth benefits aren't as important as you might think:

  • Garrote is roughly 10-12% of people's damage in a key, most of which is already empowered/cleaved
  • Most energy spreading will come from Rupture to maintain scent of blood, not garrote
  • Without a Trace (+1 vanish charge) only grants roughly 2 additional casts across a whole dungeon
  • While Without a Trace can allow for better vanish timings, the difference in damage provided is at most replacing a non-stealth opener with a stealth opener (you aren't necessarily getting "added" casts, just "better" casts)
  • You can argue that it "feels bad", but numerically there is very little ground to stand on, the dps simply isn't there.
radiant raven
ocean ferry
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Do we have somewhere an in depth guide like outlaw has? Or only the ones on icy veins / wowhead? Trying to learn this specc

normal mist
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wowhead/icyveins

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Further than that Whispyr on youtube

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Otherwise us fellow rogues here

dusk sun
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So rupture spreading > garrote spreading is the play now?

spice surge
dusk sun
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Like its more important to prio placing rupture on multiple targets than focusing on garrote

royal lantern
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garrote has a CD, idk how you spread it

alpine garden
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Slowly

dusk sun
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On stealth openers before trash pulls i mean

spice surge
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Its the same as before, but yes you want to maintain your scent of blood stacks

ocean ferry
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So how would an aoe opener look like? Spreading as many garrotes as possible then rupture into cds?

azure flare
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general rule is

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spread dots to 5 targets (GENERALLY 5 )

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then go full blast

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it really depends how fast stuff dies

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rn you want to go into your burst asap since everything dies ultra fast

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your main concern is dotting for energy+scent of blood

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once you're set with that you mutilate a target and proceed to blast

normal mist
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^ everything he said

wispy aspen
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!sims

prisma monolithBOT
wispy aspen
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!guide

prisma monolithBOT
ocean ferry
azure flare
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yeah

ocean ferry
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If mobs would live long enough I mean

azure flare
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basically 2x garrote with carnage talent and 2x rupture

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is generally enough

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that's 6 targets total with bleeds

ocean ferry
azure flare
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no

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with carnage you're cleaving dots

ocean ferry
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Oh it’s get used on target + spreading on 2?

azure flare
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yeah so IF you have carnage up from vanish or stealth you can hit 2x rupture 2x garrote

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and that will be 6 targets

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since it spreads to 2 additional targets

ocean ferry
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Ah ok nice

azure flare
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so 1 on your main target and the other 2 on nearby targets

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if you don't have carnage up you'll need to dot manually a bit more but in aoe with fok it goes pretty smoothly

ocean ferry
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It’s worth to swap target to spread to 1 additional I guess?

azure flare
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yes

ocean ferry
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Fok?^^

azure flare
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There's a really good video from Whispyr if you wanna learn the ins and outs of assa rogue

azure flare
ocean ferry
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Wait it spreads out dots too?

ocean ferry
azure flare
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well poisons yes but not your bleed, I mean more like, it generates you a lot of combo points in aoe

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so you can rupture faster, etc

ocean ferry
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But we still spread garrote even if no stealth / vanish ready?

azure flare
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yea as much as you can that is

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but focus more on your ruptures

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garrote outside of stealth has a cd and with packs dying too fast you can't always garrote everything up without stealth

ocean ferry
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Is there a minimum TTD we should still spread dots?

azure flare
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TTD?

red wolf
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time to death?

ocean ferry
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Yep time to death

azure flare
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That's an interesting way to say time to kill KekW

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You have to kind of feel how fast packs will die

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We can't really give you a hard number especially once you get into mythic+

red wolf
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whispyr also mentions that in the video, about "sniping" mobs in the previous back because you get energy back from rupture

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definitely check that video

azure flare
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yep ^

normal lotus
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Sudden demise, energy from rupture you'll want to likely keep it

azure flare
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getting like 150 energy back is crazy good

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keeps your sanguine talent going as well

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which is a huge part of your aoe damage

normal lotus
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Going into a new pack energy starved gonna feel ass

azure flare
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Yep and losing this is harsh

image.png
normal lotus
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You'll also lose caustic spatter if you drop your bleed at the end

desert cove
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!pooling

prisma monolithBOT
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Read About Pooling
TLDR:Maintain max uptime on envenom

  • For Fatebound, sanguine blades is typically much better than Deathstalker. For this reason, if you can't maintain Envenom uptime anymore, you should build combo points, then reset your energy back to around 70% before maintaining again.
  • For Deathstalker, try to stay under 50% as much as possible while maxing out Envenom uptime. Single target builds play vicious venoms instead of sanguine blades as well.

The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and use energy more efficiently for Deathstalker marks/cooldowns. Staying under 50% leads to more envenom casts, which is more Darkest Night Procs. For Fatebound, heads flips contribute damage regardless of if you're flipping or not, so this pressure to keep spending is lessened.

desert cove
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Deathstalker doesn’t care much for sanguine blades

ocean ferry
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Yeah I just remember from sub rogue that it was only worth to rupture mobs which live longer than 12sec

red wolf
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yeah but as assa you have different benefits from rupture like sudden demise, energy, etc so there's more factors

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Scent of blood

whole sand
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packs don't even live for 12 seconds rn, don't overthink it

red wolf
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yeah that too lol

normal lotus
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All of subt damage is in ST, all sin rogues is based around bleeds

spice surge
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Subs rupture does damage

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Assa's buffs you

whole sand
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garrotes, ruptures, crimson tempest, spatter

red wolf
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yeah on sub it's just purely damage so it's just a math equation of where if the mob is going to die soon it becomes more damage to just push evis

lethal vector
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i'm not understanding the interaction between bone spike and CP generation in aoe. if i cast rupture in aoe while i have 3 stacks of bone spike, why am i getting 7 cp back? tooltip says you get 1 cp + 1 per active bone spike. so shouldnt i be getting 4 cp instead of 7?

alpine garden
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I was literally coming here to ask that

spice surge
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So it sees that you have a bleed up already

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And gives you 2 instead of 1

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And likewise the third one sees you have 2 bleeds up, so it gives you 3

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So it gives you 6 cp

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But bonespike is also a generator, so if it crits you get seal fate

lethal vector
whole sand
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.

spice surge
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What

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When you press rupture

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you dont press garrote

lethal vector
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yea you get the cp right after pressing rupture

whole sand
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oh yeah ignore me

still steppe
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anyone else having omega energy issue on ST?

spice surge
prisma monolithBOT
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Running out of energy in single target is completely normal, intended design of Assassination. You want to be playing for the highest uptime on Envenom, and not blindly spamming away all your energy. Rapid Injection, Sanguine Blades, and Vicious Venoms all play into this gameplay.

  • No, haste will not make this feel noticeably better.
  • 10% haste only contributes to around 2 actions per minute
  • You should be playing for envenom uptime in single target
still steppe
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so do i pool for energy?

lethal vector
tawny pawn
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i did about a mil dmg with the bleed fatebound

image.png
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im gonna look now for the DS build

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in the method site its outdate so its not showing im gonna look it up

whole sand
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just stick with wowhead

lethal vector
spice surge
lethal vector
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gotcha ok. thanks

odd grove
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noob brand new to rogue: is learning assa going to be impossible?

ashen rover
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Why would that be?

still steppe
sharp bear
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is there any vods on twitch or youtube of high m+ assa rogue I can find? Making the swap from outlaw to sin and its not lookin pretty so far lmao

limber lion
odd grove
normal mist
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in m+ is hard kinda

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in ST raid is pretty easy

tawny pawn
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!guide

prisma monolithBOT
ashen rover
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Well anything is possible if you set your mind to it, but I don't think the spec is that hard, it's different cause it plays around dots more

vale shore
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Assassin used to be considered the training wheel spec for rogue

odd grove
normal mist
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Yes and Yes

ashen rover
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ye see im personally too dumb to learn the other specs PES_Cool

odd grove
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when u are using that ability that makes one of ur CP blue

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is it a huge dps loss if u miss the blue ones

normal mist
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no

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you will eventually get the blue CP's playing normally

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you just gotta be aware where your combo points are

odd grove
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gocha

normal mist
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and if it matches blue - finisher

odd grove
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assa is looking strong rn in TWW right?

normal mist
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In my hands it is

odd grove
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i was also surprised it looks like rogue is one of the lowest played classes rn

normal mist
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always has been

sonic zinc
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how important is crit for sin, i know secondaries are listed like crit>=mast>haste>vers, but iirc sin didnt care too much about heavy stat stacking

normal mist
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Its important

sonic zinc
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trying to decide how i want to craft gear efficiently for all 3 specs at once

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its impossible but shrug

normal mist
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Think this way: Assa wants ilvl mainly

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stats barely matter

sonic zinc
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yea thats what i was thinking

normal mist
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unless ofc you have 100% versa and 0% of the other stats

odd grove
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do u have to use thistle every time u burst? or just whenever u need energy

normal mist
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obviously the more balanced it is the better

sonic zinc
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but this is like for future planing as well when we're at higher ilvls

normal mist
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but its more AGI >>> stats

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Craft with stats for the other spec

sonic zinc
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kk

normal mist
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assa will do fine either way

hearty coral
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guys can u helping me resolving a doubt. Im really enjoying rogue and loving it but since im kinda bad i fear ppl start insulting me cause they wait for me using cloak / sap / cc on mobs and i don't when to do it..

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i have in mind playing warrior cause so ppl don't wait nothing from me but dmg

glad forum
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i dont think u should be getting flamed for not sapping in heroics lol

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i wouldnt worry abt it

slate crown
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I really wouldn't worry about it

hearty coral
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i really want to push high content or raid

slate crown
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Part of that is learning

hearty coral
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u think ill be learning in the way? im afraid i can be a bad rogu

slate crown
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if you are "pushing" you will be put in situations where you learn

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This is a video game, don't worry about the fear of being bad, just play

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Everyone makes mistakes

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Including high end people

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Including rank 1 people

hearty coral
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i love my rogue and i farmed a week for my legion crow mount, im loving it

slate crown
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Then that is, more than anything, the absolute perfect reason to continue playing it

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If you're loving playing your rogue, then you play your rogue

tawny pawn
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Ok from testing the Bleed DS build it has so much potential, but the ER bug breaks so much of the mark procs

real pike
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hey guys, are there any tier lists knocking about for pre-raid/delve/m+ trinkets?

vale shore
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Those raven mounts are awesome! I wish they would update them with a perch animation

tawny pawn
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now i understand why whenever it gets fixed its going to be so much better ER + Mark + DN

hearty coral
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thanks.. i love animations and sounds from the skills more than anything.. also the ninja / thief / assasin style is amazing

slate crown
# hearty coral guys can u helping me resolving a doubt. Im really enjoying rogue and loving it ...

Also nobody is going to care in heroics about you using these things right now. Sap is almost never used anyways. Kidney Shots and Blind are helpful in later content, but it's ok if you learn when to use them. If you do actually ever get flamed, just remember that's them taking out their frustration on you and is their fault for losing their cool, not your fault. You're learning, it's ok if you make a mistake, someone flaming you is a reflection of their character not yours. Learn from your mistakes and you'll go far. Don't be afraid to make them. Loving playing the class is the most important thing

tawny pawn
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DS can be annoying if something breaks ur invis, and you lose ur ambush

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like some random aoe

normal mist
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and your mind

tawny pawn
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ye

real pike
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Wouldn't mind a 1s or even 0.5s grace window to quickly shadowstep and ambush

tawny pawn
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yeah i know.

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But you guys know that blizzard will say that ER is working as intended and will not give us mark procs right

normal mist
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I'll eat a shoe.

tawny pawn
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they will say we not using 7 CPs we using 3 ER's CPs and that interaction is intended

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kekw

real pike
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Having to go off of an ER CP to reach 7 for the proc is so anti-feelgood

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Or they just 'fix' it by somehow making cold blood the better build

tawny pawn
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well if you ask me, fro mthe things i tested, with my limited skill obviously CB is the best one ive tried right now

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CB Fate

real pike
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All these answered, and more, in the next episode

real pike
tawny pawn
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COIN GOES TINNNNG

pure bridge
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So I've been simming dual Algari Mana Oil and is it really only around ~3K dps loss (5min patcherk)? I ain't trying to pay 9k gold for one whetstone. My assumption is the firdt month of Mythic those whetstones go even higher.

balmy condor
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Yeh

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Most likely

desert cove
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should I wait until after heroics are done to craft spark btw

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raid I mean

balmy condor
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Ye

desert cove
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gotcha, thnx bestie

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btw did you ever make that bis and best macro for the bot?

balmy condor
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Yes

tawny pawn
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!fuu

prisma monolithBOT
wind spire
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is one of the darkmoond trinkets better than heroic trinkets? 🙂

balmy condor
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No

wind spire
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okay so Signet & Ara-Kara is the way to go? 🙂

balmy condor
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Sure yeah

wind spire
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thx 🙂

near lichen
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as someone who's never played rogue before, would Assassination be the easiest of the three specs to learn?

wind spire
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just sub can overwhelm u

near lichen
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i leveled to 70 as sub and did like world quests and stuff, and yeah, it felt like a lot

mint urchin
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Outlaw to me was always the most difficult with how much optimal crackshot windows matter

fallow marsh
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!wa

prisma monolithBOT
tacit otter
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any rough estimation on lining uptime? i remember in DF it was like 75+. with lower requirement i assume its atleast that?

balmy condor
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It’s like 85% from what I saw from logs but we’ll see when the content actually comes out

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I think in like non-perma ticking fights

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It could easily be 90%

junior yoke
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i WISH to be a tank man

image.png
tacit otter
balmy condor
waxen oyster
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is that heroic dungeons

junior yoke
balmy condor
balmy condor
ashen rover
waxen oyster
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someone bought the jc recipe for the simp ring

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for 800k

junior yoke
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guess no dungeon tonight

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I'll staty with my edicct

waxen oyster
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specific queue?

junior yoke
unreal parcel
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Did they fix edict? Cause it didn’t seem to proc like at all for me.

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Switched off of it for now after I saw wowhead comments about the same thing.

junior yoke
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I trtied it yesterday, att least yestterday no

waxen oyster
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do a guild group

junior yoke
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my guild died 2 years ago 😦

waxen oyster
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idk its not worth farming

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by random quuee

junior yoke
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I think u're right tbh

crystal nymph
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when i have darkest night and 1 stack deathstalkers mark, if i use envenom on 7cp both buffs gone and i dont get mark on target is it bug or ishouldnt use like that?

waxen oyster
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you make a farm group its way more effective

tired gull
crystal nymph
tired gull
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i never correlated the 1stack dsm and dn

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i've just noticed my mark not reapplying, never knew why, but that makes some sense i guess

tawny pawn
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so i guess i made some progress with KB

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please correct me

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but i should be using CB on the second shiv

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inside KB

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?

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Or it doesnt matter ?

heavy jolt
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!fuu

prisma monolithBOT
junior yoke
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ahahhahaha I can't believe

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that 74 everbloom runs on that time

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really did something

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they all left, gg

image.png
jaunty dew
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So appearantly if you get the bird buff on the rookery, you'll get bumped out of stealth as soon as combat starts

royal lantern
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dont grab it

jaunty dew
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Yup

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Too bad, good dmg

limber lion
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@spice spire explain yourself

image.png
jaunty dew
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I thought it was an AOE that got me out of stealth

limber lion
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12 days in a row, huh?

silk bane
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let the man enjoy his new expac

viral aurora
#

I am trying to make a clear the witnesses WA, not getting it to work. It is a player buff aura no?

Copied another buff WA that´s working perfectly

silk bane
#

u got it to work or still need help?

viral aurora
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sry for bad wording, I haven´t gotten the Clear the witnesses WA to work

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can´t figure out why, never have issues with WA´s

balmy condor
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would need screenshots or something to see

tropic goblet
#

Is it worth crafting things using crests right now? I"m getting conflicting information lol

balmy condor
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crests yes spark no

silk bane
prisma monolithBOT
silk bane
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most of these hsould have one in there you can yoink

golden plume
#

how important is energy pooling and envenom chaining as fatebound when youre not running rapid injection?

balmy condor
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about 1%

silk bane
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LE's has a good one where it pops up on your screen when its ready to be used.

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it has some logic in it involved as well

viral aurora
viral aurora
silk bane
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you could also just find it under premade auras -> buffs-> clear the witnesses

image.png
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then change it from there however you want or add conditionts or w/e

viral aurora
lucid meteor
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Anyone feeling like assa is going to get gutted?

tired gull
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nah

balmy condor
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I'm feeling like a plastic bag

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drifting through the wind

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wanting to start again

lucid meteor
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How much could you carry if you were a plastic bag

balmy condor
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two, maybe three

lucid meteor
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Then how would you drift through the wind with two, maybe three?

balmy condor
#

katy perry told me to

sage steppe
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sorry

lucid meteor
balmy condor
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all g

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am plastic bag

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ending up in pacific garbage patch

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my life long dream was to choke a turtle to death

lucid meteor
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That’s grim

tired gull
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i enjoy choking my turtle

lucid meteor
#

Should put that as your bio

balmy condor
tired gull
junior yoke
#

do we have world boss next reset?

robust river
#

!poison

prisma monolithBOT
#

You should always be using poisons you talent into, which means the following:

Lethals:

  • Deadly always + Amplifying if you're talented into it with DTB, Instant only as a final option
    Non-Lethals:
  • Atrophic/Numbing, crippling if you're talented into DTB

Wound poison damage in PvE is atrocious and should never be used

spice spire
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got fomo

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playing

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sux

robust river
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Best spell to macro CBlood too?

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I assume Envenom 😄

lucid meteor
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Envenom

robust river
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Or just mut?

hybrid olive
#

is assissination rogue doing real good right now? i just finished ilvling and rep farming on my warrior so doing a alt now and just trying to figure out which spec to go as rogue

lucid meteor
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If ur playing fatebound

robust river
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Yeah testing FB

lucid meteor
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After sending cds

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Use it on envenom

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I wouldn’t macro it in that’s just gonna be a waste

balmy condor
robust river
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Ah I was told people macro it to just ensure it's constantly used and don't worry about it. Can think about it i guess 😅

novel star
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not macroing cb is annoying and like a <0.5% gain iirc

robust river
#

Or Ambush?

balmy condor
lucid meteor
#

Env

rapid sable
#

Anyone know what currently obtainable daggers are BiS?

balmy condor
#

the one with the highest item level

robust river
balmy condor
#

cause it munches your edge case proc

lucid meteor
#

🦍

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Ur a munch

novel star
balmy condor
#

no I'm a plastic bag

balmy condor
lucid meteor
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I forgot

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My b

balmy condor
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one sec

novel star
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or just edge case in general

vivid crown
novel star
#

ty >.<

lucid meteor
#

I’m doing like 1.2m average overall for heroic dungeons rn

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That’s obviously dependent on the dungeon but most dungeons are around there

tawny pawn
#

Sybreeds

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can you share what build you running

lucid meteor
#

Ale

keen nacelle
#

Will outlaw be the meta? Of the rogue specs

tawny pawn
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im doing about 1m

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i wish i were doing 1.2

lucid meteor
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I’m using the double vanish build

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Until they fix death mark

earnest remnant
tawny pawn
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That make sense

earnest remnant
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but who knows, they could throw in some tuning curve balls

tawny pawn
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im running the bleed fatebound

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i might not do 1.2m

keen nacelle
vivid crown
#

yeah i should say im playing kind of a goofy spec, and not into lethality etc.

lucid meteor
tawny pawn
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but on bosses im melting

vivid crown
#

i should probably actually spec correctly

tawny pawn
#

yeye that makes more sense

earnest remnant
spring stream
#

!wa

prisma monolithBOT
woeful hornet
#

Assassination bis rn no?

lucid meteor
#

Yep

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I think overall we do the most damage in dungeons for sure

woeful hornet
#

Time to learn rogue then lmao

vast barn
#

!guide

prisma monolithBOT
balmy condor
#

in single target

novel star
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ouch

balmy condor
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yeh

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used to not be as impactful

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but then they changed it so that cold blood could match the edge case flips

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so like 0-0, edge case 1-1, vanish+cb1 is 3-3, cb2 is 4-4

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instead of 0-0, edge case 1-1, cb is 1-2

novel star
balmy condor
#

so the value of not casting during dm kinda skyrocketed

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well, before

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you want during

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but after edge

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you know what I mean

novel star
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yea

spring aurora
tawny pawn
#

@lucid meteor

image.png
#

last dungeon

balmy condor
royal lantern
crimson wigeon
#

Is it worth keeping crimson tempest up on ST (like m+ boss)

royal lantern
#

there is only "i throw 4 talent points away for nothing"

novel star
#

i really hope that cb bug gets fixed but damn for 2.5 i prolly should make a 2nd bind

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🙃

balmy condor
cyan summit
#

Hey @balmy condor

novel star
#

iirc ct is only worth 3+ same as fan

cyan summit
#

!stats

prisma monolithBOT
#

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

  • Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
  • Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
  • Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results
balmy condor
novel star
#

oh for real?

crimson wigeon
balmy condor
#

idk how it got missed but merk pointed it out in his post

spring aurora
balmy condor
#

it's been tested a bunch but idk

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I guess momentum buffs and the last ct buff was impactful enough

novel star
#

i knew that shit cranks but if you press it on 2 that’s wild

#

what an insane button

pulsar elk
#

Was there a target count where i would need to tap target garrot during IC

balmy condor
#

you would technically also press it in single target but it seems marginal and I'm not convinced

royal lantern
novel star
balmy condor
novel star
#

Okay fun hero spec

spring aurora
balmy condor
#

there's more than enough people that play deathstalker

#

it's just janky

novel star
#

i’d assume most are playing ds cause it’s shrimply better

#

but i don’t have da stats

crimson wigeon
spring aurora
#

I wish they made us able to apply it from garrote. Would make opener easier

crimson wigeon
#

Ive only been playing DS but maybe i should try the fate one if its more consistent at least

novel star
#

it’s good that you have the mark target instantly

#

and your bleeds can all start funneling with singular focus instantly

balmy condor
crimson wigeon
#

do you all use a mouseover macro for garrote / rupture for IC window? I find that targetting something new manually slows me a fair bit

balmy condor
#

I just slam the same target

#

couldn't care

ashen rover
#

Same

crimson wigeon
#

and tab target either picks someone with garrote already or someone too far

shut canopy
#

Same

novel star
#

i never used mouseover but recently set up the macros just cause why not

#

but yeah you don’t really need to

crimson wigeon
novel star
#

it is

balmy condor
#

the IC garrotes are smart

crimson wigeon
#

oh then i prob shouldnt be targetting off then.

balmy condor
#

the one you're casting on the target is still cast on the target

novel star
#

tab targeting is free damage.

crimson wigeon
#

Ive been targetting off and having to get back which was quite the manual effort given i wanted to go back to death mark target

novel star
#

staying on one mob = 5 garrotes for 2 gcds

#

targeting a non garroted mob = 6 for 2gcd

lost hamlet
#

!wa

novel star
#

because you don’t “waste” a garrote on refreshing

prisma monolithBOT
spring aurora
novel star
#

but it’s pretty minimal

#

i think

crimson wigeon
novel star
novel star
#

when i felt like minmaxing i would just click on nameplates

crimson wigeon
#

so i waste a gcd worth of time trying to target the close mob

#

yea I click nameplates

novel star
#

which is why i’m trying to start mouseover lol

crimson wigeon
#

but now im thinking I just mouse over macro it

novel star
#

same thing with -2 inputs

#

but not tabbing around at all still lets you get infinite energy and 5 scent of bloods

sour oasis
#

Hello guys

#

Wich guid is better

#

Icyveins or Wowhead?

pulsar elk
#

when using the one shiv, i just kingsbane into shiv or wait

novel star
distant plinth
novel star
#

cause it’s stacked up

pulsar elk
tawny pawn
#

well i use at the start of KB and the last 8 seconds

#

works just fine for me

#

being doing 4~5m KB everytime

novel star
#

that is what you do with 2 charges

#

we’re talking about one charge

tawny pawn
#

i see sorry

novel star
#

all good

#

covering 100% of kb is correct with double shiv tho

robust river
balmy condor
#

ct on 2, fok on 3, or 2 for m+ deahtstalker

plain onyx
#

hey guys, I usually take the talents on the "cheat sheet" page. but I just found that there are more talents i can take in the "talent builds" and I was wondering which one i should go with. I dont mind both tbh, just want to know which is better for upcoming raids.

Capture.PNG
lucid meteor
balmy condor
novel star
#

deathstalker is always better with current tuning

#

yeah

plain onyx
#

thanks a lot!

pulsar elk
#

In an aoe pull, if I don't have slice and dice up. Do i Just cast it after my bleeds and caustic spat?

balmy condor
#

double vanish sucks awfully

novel star
balmy condor
novel star
#

bleeds r prio over slice

tired gull
#

plz just make snd passive

novel star
#

i like it

lucid meteor
novel star
#

echoing reprimand is better than cb objectively

tired gull
#

it does work, just doesn't interact with dsm as expected, it's still good

novel star
#

cb is better in fatebound only because you get the double

#

and the other talent on that node for fb sucks balls

lucid meteor
#

I don’t play fatebound

iron carbon
#

Is Vicious Venom supposed to be strictly better in pure ST? Sims doesn't show any diff for me.

novel star
#

yeah so you just take reprimand

#

because it’s just better

#

and cb is just worse

balmy condor
novel star
#

it’s an issue of the spells base effects. ignoring hero talents entirely ER is just better

balmy condor
#

just cause it doesn't work with the mark doesn't mean it's bad lmao

lucid meteor
#

Or I can just go double vanish to fix losing my mark to killing the target with buff or using buff with 3rd proc and i just lose both

balmy condor
#

I mean you're free to do whatever you want

proven current
#

is the valorstones cap, the max I can obtain or is the max I can hold at once?

novel star
#

double vanish will not give you more dps though

balmy condor
#

but double vanish sucks and you're losing damage playing it

novel star
#

it will feel better, maybe

#

but it won’t actually be better

#

numerically

normal mist
tawny pawn
#

yeah im very happy with the fatebound bleed

#

this

#

im doing big dam on pack and bosses

novel star
#

it cranks rn in heroics

tawny pawn
#

it feels great

#

ye

novel star
#

zoldyck sd is sick

tawny pawn
#

Yeah whenever your KB alignis with zoldyck

proven current
normal mist
#

yes

tawny pawn
#

you deal 1,2m dps on bosses

#

feeeeels gooood

tired gull
proven current
#

sick thanks

tawny pawn
#

Zoldyck range KB + mark + double CB Envenom

#

dopamine for days

amber blaze
#

yo rotation says we use Both charges of Shiv during all KB

#

I hear that

#

but why mm+ tree doesn't take second charge of shiv ?

lucid meteor
#

One before one at 7secs

tawny pawn
#

well this one does

image.png
ancient rain
proven current
#

!sims

prisma monolithBOT
balmy condor
#

please do not drop one of the strongest m+ utility talents for 1% dps

oblique jackal
#

Do you really need double shiv

balmy condor
#

no

#

it's just buffing your first couple seconds of kingsbane in single target

#

doesn't even do anything for aoe

tawny pawn
#

oh it doesnt?

pale ember
#

dropping garrote silence pepeW

tawny pawn
#

i was shiving some prio in packs

reef axle
#

Do we need to maintain fok? Or mainly just in opener?

tawny pawn
#

for that extra hmph

balmy condor
#

I mean you can shiv for prio, it's more prio

#

but it's not more aoe

#

caustic damage doesn't change

tawny pawn
#

oh i thought it would deal more dmg with spatter

#

i guess i was mistaken

balmy condor
proven current
#

where can I find best talent builds?

balmy condor
balmy condor
novel star
#

i think

#

some nerd shit like that

balmy condor
#

yeh

amber blaze
balmy condor
#

it's calculated a step earlier

amber blaze
#

Caustic*

#

Ok I rephrase

iron carbon
reef axle
#

Whisp working over time replying to everyone 😂

balmy condor
#

yes

amber blaze
#

Isn't KB doing damage through Caustic ?

balmy condor
amber blaze
#

then Shiv is enhancing aoe no ?

tawny pawn
#

Ok today is the day i learned the most about this spec

#

what.

novel star
balmy condor
twin plume
#

As one guy said it doesnt double dip

novel star
balmy condor
#

I literally just said that it doesn't

amber blaze
#

Wtf Im moissing big intel here

balmy condor
#

okay, again

tawny pawn
#

what am i removing my second shiv for?

static glacier
#

shiv debuff extra dmg doesn't increase caustic

balmy condor
#

let me type out

#

a big fucking thing

iron carbon
twin plume
#

!doubledip

amber blaze
tawny pawn
#

Oh am i droping 1 extra shiv for iron grip?

novel star
#

i was typing a thing but it’d be worse than whispyrs typed thing so

tired gull
#

everyone's waiting in anticipation

tawny pawn
clever stone
twin plume
#

Paused my movie for it

tawny pawn
#

we about to see whispyr rage

#

Why do i hear boss music

amber blaze
acoustic roost
#

We’re gonna get mathed so hard

ember mural
#

what did you all do??

tawny pawn
#

i swear he was like this when i came

clear nexus
#

Im liking ass this ´"preseason"

#

even though its just hcs

tawny pawn
#

Bro he is not stopping

clear nexus
#

its a little difficult but im getting used to the opener and can do it consistnently and i pump

tawny pawn
#

im actually tense right now

clear nexus
#

i get it might not feel perfect or what not, im just having fun and topping every meter

tired gull
#

i wonder if he's going to self publish this novel, or get a major publisher

bold mason
#

nerf

clear nexus
#

pugging hcs, whatever

tawny pawn
#

is he writing one piece final episode?

iron carbon
#

I guess he need to split the message

jolly lion
iron carbon
#

We'll get a .txt

amber blaze
#

so Shiv isn't buffing our AoE, is that right

novel star
balmy condor
#

caustic spatter does not work with target damage taken multipliers. Neither does blade flurry.

the order things happen in:

you press envenom -> the game calculates the damage it'll do based on your buffs -> it calculates the damage caustic would do -> NOW it checks if the target is taking extra damage

Think of a hypothetical situation where you're fighting 2 big orcs, and they stun each other and take 100% increased damage for a bit.
Lets do the math of what actually happens in the game. You envenom one of them for 100 damage, but because of the 100% damage taken increase you're dealing 200, and with shiv 30% you're dealing 260. You caustic spatter based on the 100 damage, so you deal 45 to the second target.
Lets then compare that to the math of what would happen if caustic WOULD work with target modifiers like shiv. You envenom one of them for 100 damage, but because of the 100% damage taken blah blah. You still deal 260 to that target. So you're going to caustic 117 damage. So now 100% damage increase is 234, but wait! Raid builds use arterial precision, so that's another 30% on the other target. So now your 100 damage envenom is doing 304 damage to the second target, so you're actually doing more damage to your caustic target than you are to your main target, and instead of 100% increased + 30% increased being 305 damage with caustic, you're doing a total of 564 damage with caustic. You took a simple 100% damage buff and a 30% damage buff, and turned it into a nearly 600% damage buff

That's why these things don't work. You also don't see Sanguine blades doing increased damage on gnarlroot, that got fixed because during gnarlroots 100% damage taken increase, sanguine blades was affected and doing 100% more damage. That's dangerous and not how the game is supposed to work

#

shiv does provide an aoe increase, but only with arterial precision

#

in the case of arterial precision

#

the target taking caustic spatter damage

#

is taking 30% more nature damage

limber lion
balmy condor
#

so in that case, it balances back out

novel star
#

you’re so fucking based

amber blaze
#

So Ghostly strike is acting the same way ? Only used in ST/Funnel ?

#

No impact on BF ?

tawny pawn
tired gull
#

excellent explanation as usual whispyr

balmy condor
#

blade flurry has the same rules

amber blaze
#

bruh okey good info

balmy condor
#

you can't hit a target taking 100% increased damage and blade flurry 100% more damage

amber blaze
#

Would have been fun actually

limber lion
#

Huntsman ghosties would go crazy

novel star
#

would it

iron carbon
#

tldr : Don't trust tooltip

#

Trust Whispyr

balmy condor
#

it's not tooltip or whispyr

#

it's just logic

#

think about how broken aoe would be if things like that worked

#

and you could just blade flurry all the adds for double damage

#

during any intermission

tired gull
#

but i want my 2m+ envenoms to spatter everywhere

balmy condor
#

I want my 2 mil envenoms to spatter for 100 mil too

tired gull
#

😄

balmy condor
#

but that's not balanceable

iron carbon
#

Ofc, hopefully it doesn't apply like it

#

But tooltip do not say that

balmy condor
#

@normal mist I need you to use these gloves to make a mog for jim carrey's the mask

image.png
#

thank you

#

I don't have any other use for the gloves

#

just that

tired gull
#

smokin!

novel star
#

those are so fucking gross man

pulsar elk
#

Do i get caustic spat up before i deathmark?

balmy condor
#

generally yes

novel star
#

yes

balmy condor
#

but not needed

novel star
#

deathmark doubles your posions spatter spreads your poisons

balmy condor
#

you totally could get it up at the start of deathmark after you cast it

novel star
#

youre losing like a few auto attacks worth of poison damage i guess

#

its not really a big deal

iron carbon
#

When your tooltip say : Deal 45% of your poison dmg in AOE
And Shiv : increase by 30% the initial dmg of poison
I find it logic that you Deal 130% to your primary target and 58.5 to others

novel star
#

but it is optimal smileW

novel star
#

damage dealt and damage taken are calculated at different points

#

caustic spatter uses damage dealt (you, your stats, your buffs)

#

damage taken by the target is calculated second and thats when debuffs are relevant

#

if you shivd not the mob with spatter on them your spatter would technically do like a percent more

#

but you lose a gorillion on the actual target lol

iron carbon
#

Yup

#

I'm just saying it could be more clear

limber lion
#

It's stuff that doesn't matter to 99.99999999% of the playerbase

#

There's no reason for it to be any more clear

#

Nothing changes

novel star
#

for me personally i think its clear enough just based on the damage dealt / damage taken wording

#

like i wouldnt figure it out myself but i have no issues accepting it

#

it doesnt bother me to think about

limber lion
#

All damage in the game has some sort of formula

#

Like that's how stuff works in video games

iron carbon
limber lion
#

And it doesn't matter if you do

tired gull
#

it's like pemdas, but with it's own rules for wow

novel star
#

they can never make every interaction in the game 100% clear off just tooltips

balmy condor
#

shiv increases to your target
caustic deals damage to..... not your target

#

makes sense to me

runic hinge
novel star
#

youd have a fucking novel for each spell

limber lion
#

It's legit useless information

novel star
#

itd be awful

limber lion
#

It's funny haha got em information

#

But unless you're a theorycrafter/tester, it's pointless

olive robin
#

Umm, wtf is this? spent like 10 minutes triple checking all hero talents

image.png
balmy condor
#

that is a bug

novel star
#

the fuck is flensing

iron carbon
novel star
olive robin
#

that talent was in beta or smthing?

novel star
#

deathstalker whaling

#

aintnoway

limber lion
balmy condor
limber lion
#

If you'te interested in stuff, you go to google and search about it

balmy condor
#

it shouldn't exist

limber lion
#

And find a wiki article or whatever with all the formulas

balmy condor
#

but the talent tree is spaghetti

olive robin
#

at this point im not even suprised

iron carbon
limber lion
#

Because it is

iron carbon
#

And I just react at the Whispyr intervention

novel star
#

eh

normal mist
novel star
#

i wouldnt say its useless

balmy condor
novel star
limber lion
novel star
mint valve
#

when do you use fok ? just to clear the weakness or aoe builder?

balmy condor
#

yes

limber lion
#

Let's hear ONE thing about it that is useful

novel star
limber lion
#

Other than it being nice

#

Brother

iron carbon
#

And just telling, if you don't know how formula are calculated, you can't guess it doesn't interact like it

limber lion
#

Knowing stuff doesn't make it useful

novel star
#

me when i HATE learning

limber lion
#

Useless information can be nice

balmy condor
iron carbon
#

Disenrage sometimes

novel star
#

if youre really this desperate for me to engage with you seriously

iron carbon
#

Kekw

balmy condor
#

like we have 1 charge

novel star
#

if "useless information" made you happy to learn

#

it was not useless

#

because you had fun

#

:)

balmy condor
#

the second charge doesn't line up with anything

#

it's either prio

novel star
#

weirdo ass

balmy condor
#

or not press

limber lion
amber blaze
novel star
balmy condor
#

that's literally how the game sees it

#

I'm not arguing for or against anything lmao

#

I'm stating a fact

mental anchor
#

i have a question im hoping anyone could help me with, last season we wanted around 20% haste right? i was wondering if there is still a ''soft'' cap for haste as assa or should i just go all in for crit master?

balmy condor
#

is this pvp

#

this feels like pvp

mental anchor
#

pve

balmy condor
#

what

novel star
#

!stats

prisma monolithBOT
#

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

  • Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
  • Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
  • Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results
spice spire
#

You should sim. There’s no levels

balmy condor
#

we never had a haste breakpoint

spice spire
#

Stats fluctuate as you get more of x or y

#

This isn’t a spec that has specific points

mental anchor
#

i heard zerocool said u wanted around 20% hate

#

last season

balmy condor
limber lion
#

Where are people pulling these numbers

#

Ah

balmy condor
#

I will restrain myself

limber lion
#

Damn you're a strong man

novel star
#

whos zerocool

#

im not connected enough to wow content stuff

spice spire
balmy condor
novel star
spice spire
#

Isn’t it closer to like

#

8-9?

novel star
#

so its just pro said something = math is fake

#

😁 😁 😁 😁 😁 😁 😁 😁 😁 😁

#

teeheeeeee

balmy condor
limber lion
#

Not even close

spice spire
#

Was doing this in sl too wasn’t he

shy crow
#

assassination rogue

limber lion
#

He was but he was not #1

balmy condor
spice spire
#

Ahh

past forum
#

I also heard u need 69 haste and 420 mastery before u can drop without a trace

spice spire
#

Fair enough m+ brain rot

limber lion
#

Now he plays 5 times as much as the #2 player so he's got em beat

mental anchor
#

okey guys i get it

#

no need to shit on me for asking

balmy condor
#

no ones shitting on you

limber lion
#

This is just a very common occurence

#

It's okay

novel star
#

what happened to like the academic losers giving information to pros so they can use it to perform better isnt that how real sports work

tawny barn
#

you think with how giga re-stealths are, going nightelf for m+ worth it?

novel star
#

why cant videogames do this

limber lion
#

We do

#

That's literally what we do for the raid guys

novel star
#

and yet

junior aurora
#

and yet what

#

you think they dont look at this stuff?

limber lion
#

Mythic+ is just a different system, play whatever you want 20 hours a day and you win

novel star
limber lion
#

They literally all just yoink the stuff we come up with

novel star
#

for sure m+ different but still lmao

limber lion
#

And then make shit up on top

limber lion
#

Literally

#

We have never heard anyone ever mention anyone else except this guy

novel star
#

just one example of a wider issue that exists in all games

limber lion
#

Because everyone else just plays the game without making shit up

balmy condor
novel star
#

im projecting some league ptsd here for sure

runic hinge
#

Idk I like spreading misinformation

novel star
balmy condor
#

I have been asking the same question

#

for like

#

8 years now

spice spire
junior aurora
novel star
#

okay well now what do i believe LOL

pulsar elk
#

How do you sim rogue for m+

balmy condor
#

dslice

novel star
#

not ideal but better than the others

limber lion
#

Slow

runic hinge
balmy condor
#

bald

novel star
junior aurora
novel star
#

one day.

spice spire
runic hinge
#

Yeah everyone played sub but still

spice spire
#

You’re not even A tier in this server wdym

limber lion
runic hinge
spice spire
junior aurora
limber lion
#

:O

spice spire
balmy condor
junior aurora
#

whispyr i dont think u made the tier list either

balmy condor
#

I did

spice spire
junior aurora
novel star
junior aurora
#

he'd re rank u lower now that u lost ur privelege

spice spire
#

I’ve never been a mod wdym

eager vigil
#

If Im using fatebound and have only 1 shiv, when doing the opener why shouldnt i use it before kingsbane? (Im reading icy veins guide)

novel star
#

look @ the tooltip

#

it does the most damage at the end when its stacked up

balmy condor
gilded oasis
limber lion
#

KB dam smol first and big late

novel star
#

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

eager vigil
#

Ohhh ok thanks!

spice spire
limber lion
#

Make big bigger is bigger number than makinh smol bigger

limber lion
junior aurora
#

true

#

big number good person

#

small number bad deviant

spice spire
limber lion
#

I honestly think 8.3 is the reason people are still so fucking fixated ablut high haste

#

We played 16 years ignoring haste

gilded oasis
#

Ok I was just throwing out a expac

limber lion
#

And now suddenly people love it to bits

gilded oasis
novel star
#

ive always liked haste because it tickles my brainstem

#

but i started in 8.3

#

when getting 5 million billion trillion haste was the play

#

so

limber lion
#

There you go

novel star
#

lmao

#

i still just like thinking about haste conceptually even if i know its bad

gilded oasis
#

Im a big fan of mastery stacking

balmy condor
#

I'm a big fan of doing more damage

junior aurora
#

i also played mage in 8.3

gilded oasis
#

I hate doing damage

#

unless its emotional damage

past forum
#

I stack speed cause u cant do damage if u cant keep up

limber lion
#

I just throw my hands in the air and pray for a greater power to take control

balmy condor
#

I stack leech because I think modern medicine is making my bones soft and attaching parasites to my body is just nature's dialysis machine

gilded oasis
#

based

novel star
#

holy fuck

royal lantern
balmy condor
#

cev is a bear

frail root
#

Hey guys, what’s the amount of mobs I should put garrote or rupture on before tempesting when I can’t get in stealth before the pull?

spice spire
frail root
#

For example in HC sometimes the tank pulls already a new mob group while all dps still fighting the other one and then I can’t get into stealth

balmy condor
frail root
#

So immediately tempesting?

balmy condor
#

yes

frail root
#

Ooohhhh

#

I always thought I should firstly put bleeds on all enemies and THEN tempest

spice spire
#

CT high key cranks

frail root
#

Yeah wow ok that helped me a lot then

balmy condor
#

I mean you do want to do that

#

because carnage

#

but if you don't have carnage then whatever

frail root
#

Oh yeah you literally saved me millions of damage every dungeon rn

#

Bc k always tried to put bleeds on most targets before tempest and without carnage most enemies are dead before I tempest in some situations 😵😂

patent tangle
#

guys how do i get those cata trinket that are S tier ?

balmy condor
#

you wait till the season opens like the rest of us

brave stump
#

its just around the corner

balmy condor
#

another full week

patent tangle
#

and

#

is it good to have 2 trinket equip ?

balmy condor
#

you have 2 trinket slots

brave stump
balmy condor
#

you should equip 2 trinkets

patent tangle
#

or should i have 1 on use and 1 equip

brave stump
#

oh

deep radish
#

Is there any charts over tier set gains for all 3 specs @balmy condor ?

brave stump
#

i dont even know the cds on those one yet

balmy condor
#

so no reason

patent tangle
#

ye i know but there is trinket on use and passive equip

#

is it troll to have 2 passive equip trinket ?

balmy condor
#

yes

deep radish
patent tangle
#

bruh so our only on use item is a green trinket ?

balmy condor
#

yes

balmy condor
patent tangle
#

but we can't have it

brave stump
#

does this scale

image.png
#

with hero?

balmy condor
#

scales with nothing

#

rogue skills scale rogue skills

#

that is not a rogue skill

brave stump
#

but

balmy condor
brave stump
#

nature dmg

#

its on a rouge

balmy condor
#

yeah but it's an item

#

items are never included

#

(lingering darkness works cause it's bugged but it shouldn't work)

brave stump
valid moss
#

does this even work, i got 2 unique gems but i dont get +159 INT and crit for them

image.png
balmy condor
#

it's crit effect

#

so damage

valid moss
#

ah

#

what about primary stat

balmy condor
#

it gives primary stat

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I'm not sure why you think it would give intellect

junior aurora
#

it clearly didnt if hes asking why it isnt

valid moss
#

because thats my primary stat?

balmy condor
#

since when are rogues int classes

junior aurora
#

brother what discord are u in rn

valid moss
#

i obviously use it on all alts...

spare ice
#

smartest rogue player

clear nexus
#

we aint

balmy condor
#

on intellect alts it would give intellect

clear nexus
#

irl it would give int

#

at least in my household

junior aurora
#

alright whens the blizzard nerf bat, ready for assa to go back to being ot2

sour oasis
#

I dont know if the meta will be assa or finesse in raid

#

sub

royal lantern
strong wing
#

Easiest way to farm rep? Side quests, world and rares I guess right?

royal lantern
#

well, yeha, thats rep sources

unkempt warren
#

Does race matter? If so what's the best options? Just goblin for mobility?

strong wing
#

Idk how tbh but he is

royal lantern
#

probs abused some shit

#

but also, why do it

#

there is nothing to "gain"

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except cosmetics

strong wing
#

Just want to get to 7 to buy the 590 piece

royal lantern
#

ofc cosmetics are nice and i want them aswell, but wont look up some weird exploits for that lol

royal lantern