assassination

[strange python]

It’s a real high honestly

Also a real low when you go a tier without em for sure

But that’s kinda how that works

[pale gate]

anyone have a plater profile that changes color for each garrote and to another color when both garrote AND rupture are on a target? on big pulls, i waste alot of time trying to sort through the mobs to garrote them

[strange python]

Only complaint I have is they could be a bit more „legendary“

[haughty flicker]

my pally alt got fyralath from heroic reclear before anyone in my guild who could actually use it did

was actually the funniest shit ever

ended up playing it on smold bc big dam though so at least it was useful

[strange python]

I did ret in smoldy for a reclear

So regressing

Refreshing*

Just have cds every time without thinking about it at all

They are just there

[bronze marsh]

https://wago.io/398Lv0cuq should be able to mod this one to do that, look at how they have the balance druid dots and change the spell id’s to garrote/rupture

[balmy condor]

@spice surge AP stones got nerfed by 60%

[odd crater]

any news about that ?

[balmy condor]

wdym any news

that is the news

[odd crater]

do u have link ?

[balmy condor]

???????

just fucking log into the game and open your eyeballs man

[odd crater]

chill mate

[haughty flicker]

[nova kelp]

https://tenor.com/view/source-consider-the-cite-citation-gif-20216442

[lusty thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/kenan-thompson-kenan-thompson-snl-mmhmm-gif-704775788876592410

[balmy condor]

I mean what the hell do you want me to say

I noticed that the beta numbers were lower than before

do you need a wowhead link saying the same thing in order for it to be real

[odd crater]

i just wanna u chill mate

[balmy condor]

I am chill

I'm just confused what you were expecting me to say

[tranquil trout]

does anyone have any sims for BIS races for first tier?

[balmy condor]

no

[tranquil trout]

😦

watched the Max spec video today

you killed it on there

[balmy condor]

thank you

[pale gate]

what determines weath or not fan of knives generates 1 combo point or like 4?

[crystal star]

seal fate

[stuck knoll]

Crits per mob hit

Seal fate is the name of the spell like yeahmate said

[pale gate]

what i dont understand is. im hitting 4 mobs. i get 1 point total and a random amount when i cit, up to 6 points

why do i always not get atleast 4 total?

for hitting 4 mobs?

[balmy condor]

because its 1cp

[static glacier]

because nothing beyond the first cp is guaranteed

[balmy condor]

and then 1 additional per crit

if you don't crit, you don't get more than 1

[static glacier]

we're not sub

[pale gate]

i additianl per crit, got it! thanks

[static glacier]

sub works like what you're thinking

[pale gate]

yeah, thats the last spec i played

never tried sin

[static glacier]

if it's any consolation having rng cp generation makes us technically keep scaling with higher target counts

while sub cp generation hits a plateau

[light crescent]

Guys

As rogues

Where we dropping in fortnite?

[bleak ledge]

Tilted towers. Blame early death on bad loot and lag.

[shy pecan]

#outlaw definitely knows the answer

[nova kelp]

serious question
if I make my rogue a dracthyr, and rename it Soarbumhole, do you rekon that name would last?

[light crescent]

Real shit? I'll hit em up

[static glacier]

probably not

[stuck knoll]

I would spend the money to check still

[static glacier]

blizzard are pretty militant about names

a friend of mine had priestophile renamed within a day

and the name isn't even offensive

[nova kelp]

I'll probably give it a go, give it that cleanskin look, all option 1/none

the voldemorte appeal

[haughty flicker]

if i can stay in visage form i might be tempted

but probably not on rogue

bm hunter with glide though

now thats a banger

[nova kelp]

curious though, I wonder what ends up being carried over as the actual racials... it's a bit weird since tailwhip and buffet both have a talent attached to them for evoker

[static glacier]

I still suspect dracthyr implementation might be busted

being able to negate any knockbacks on demand is kinda busted

zskarn really made me appreciate how useful glide is

[past forum]

im assuming they nerf the cd of the racials and/or give them a shared cd. glide might be a tough thing to balance tho, yeah

[haughty flicker]

yeah glide is the hardest part for sure

you can just nerf/remove the knocks and whatever

but how are you gonna tell the dragon race with wings they cant glide

obviously glide isnt always relevant

[past forum]

clip they wings idk

[haughty flicker]

but being able to just jump and stop any knockback that isnt raz is pretty big

dracthyr priest op

[stuck knoll]

I feel as though every priest is already a goblin

[haughty flicker]

true

though thats only the priests who are willing to hate themselves enough to play goblin

at least dracthyr will (maybe) be able to be in visage form and just look like a human/belf

imagine how much money you could save on deviate delights

either way definitely not going to be gamebreaking but just a funny thing to think about

[tranquil trout]

do we know what the 2 and 4 set % gain are yet for the first tier

even rough numbers

[balmy condor]

2%

[past forum]

massive

[tranquil trout]

for the whole set??

fuck xD

[balmy condor]

yes

[haughty flicker]

tier sets are a meme

trinkets are a meme

embellishments are a meme

[past forum]

existence is a meme

[zinc willow]

does anybody have a link for the recommended m+? is it the Hyrbid with SBS over the Arterial Precision line?

[stuck knoll]

Should be on either WoWhead or Icy Veins

Both are maintained by people from here

[zinc willow]

I see it, thank you

[uneven plume]

can the mouseover macro for garrote do a mouseover or if on target?

current target*

[balmy condor]

if you mouseover garrote it'll work fine

[uneven plume]

yah but if i am on current target and mouse cursor is not on it

it does not apply

im trying to find an option for both

[tall sage]

[mouseover, exists][] should fix it

[balmy condor]

yeh

[uneven plume]

ty

that macro switches target right

is there one where it doesnt?

unles i am doing it wrong

#showtooltip
/cast [mouseover, exists][] Garrote

opr the garrote goes in the brackets

[balmy condor]

the macro casts on your mouseover, or if you don't have one it will cast on your target

[uneven plume]

is that the correct one?

[flint parrot]

Does Assassination use Ambush at all?

[violet berry]

Ya

Feels weird hitting it tho

[simple violet]

do we use echoing reprimand on cooldown?

[shy pecan]

You need it to be @mouseover, not just mouseover.

[violet berry]

Ya no reason not to imo

[stuck knoll]

Ye

or as close as possible

[flint parrot]

Yeah just not sure where I would want to fit it in, I guess coming out of stealth before hitting garrote?

[uneven plume]

ty

[balmy condor]

fit what in?

echoing?

[stuck knoll]

Ambush

[balmy condor]

oh

yeah ambush is only the first gcd

deathstalker only

[flint parrot]

I am coming over from Outlaw, never played Assassin

[balmy condor]

if you don't have the capstone

you would want to apply the mark

from ambush

[flint parrot]

ok that is what I figured thanks.

[balmy condor]

otherwise you never press it

[flint parrot]

It is odd that some builds have Blindside talent selected unless it does something else that I dont know.

[balmy condor]

it's just a free ambush

"some builds" in this case would be mostly single target builds

since ya know

[toxic dagger]

which of the talents for sin is best in M+?

[balmy condor]

you press mut

[toxic dagger]

on wowhead*

[stuck knoll]

that one

[balmy condor]

if you're doing mid-high keys you can play hybrid as well, that one is more single target

[toxic dagger]

Do both weaps get deadly? or one deadly/numbing

[runic hinge]

The poisons are just like a buff you don’t apply them individually to weapons

[violet jackal]

Immersion ruined thanks 😡

[restive falcon]

when the heck is whispyrs wowhead guide for Deathstalker VS Fatebound

[balmy condor]

still in review

:)

[vivid crown]

Where is this image clipped from Whispyr?

[restive falcon]

[balmy condor]

the showdown should be up tongith

[balmy condor]

my desktop

[restive falcon]

first u didnt put is in BFD and now the vs isnt up

[balmy condor]

it's right there

[restive falcon]

[vivid crown]

i feel like we've been shown the keys to the kingdom

[restive falcon]

IS TAHT

HEARTHSTONE OPEN

[balmy condor]

YAH DUDE

NEW BATTLEGROUND SEASON

[restive falcon]

and i bet u got

[vivid crown]

trinketssssssss

[balmy condor]

ITS SICK

[restive falcon]

warcraft rumble on phone rn

[balmy condor]

nah

I played rumble for a bit during blizzcon and then haven't opened it again

[strange python]

How do we use cold Bloom?

[restive falcon]

same i played for a week

[strange python]

Blood

[restive falcon]

then stopped

[vivid crown]

which trinket you like the most so far whispyr

[balmy condor]

macro'd into envenom if you're lazy, or manually before an envenom and avoiding casting it before deathmark cause it breaks with edge case

[balmy condor]

uhhh

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/617478699247206410/1275628012955766815/image.png?ex=66c694aa&is=66c5432a&hm=6ee1656b3d082f51356a5b295c98ce51732bdb14b851f133ded4c1f9039e9198&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=636&height=399

this one is pretty sick

[vivid crown]

LOL

[strange python]

Kinda strange to use it

[vivid crown]

good god

[balmy condor]

the felbat portrait is crazy too

[stuck knoll]

I thought you meant like in TWW

[strange python]

Dont we have another option?

[balmy condor]

for fatebound you could play ER I guess but it's worse

deathstalker doesn't play cold blood though

so idk

you can just macro it into envenom on fatebound and forget about it

it's only slightly worse than manually casting

[strange python]

I feel like desthstalker should be The go in almost everthing , right?

[balmy condor]

as of right now yeah

it's not MUCH better

[strange python]

Fatebound seems boring

[balmy condor]

like if you hate deathstalker you can totally play fatebound

but deathstalker as a whole will be a couple percent better

[plain flower]

Is there anyway we ever run 2 vanish and master assassin again

[balmy condor]

no

[plain flower]

Rip

Vanish my beloved

[balmy condor]

they would need to buff master assass to 100% and then also make crits deal like 50% more damage

for it to even remotely be in question

[plain flower]

[balmy condor]

double vanish is -5% dps

that's a big hurdle to overcome

most talents on top half of the spec tree are in the 2-3% range

[static glacier]

bro it's the double vanish sheeple guy

[balmy condor]

so you're talking about needing 2 bonus points on the spec tree worth of damage

to make up for double vanish

master assassin atm is one of the ones closer to 2%

so if that's the interaction you want

master assassin would need to be buffed up to like capstone levels of power

[austere sorrel]

I mean it is called master assassin

[vivid crown]

is mage tower doable in prepatch or did it get fucked?

[balmy condor]

uhhh

that's a great question

I would assume it's doable

[icy girder]

i seen it wasnt

scaled way 2 high atm

[balmy condor]

excellent

mage tower scaling is like nothing else in the game

so it's entirely possible that it just breaks

[icy girder]

a bear poped up on my youtube recently and he saidf it wasnt

and it think thats his content

[flint parrot]

Which talent tree should I start out with for the most part, especially with the new expansion coming out, I have been looking at all 4 of them but wasnt sure which I should focus on first, opinions?

[runic hinge]

Rogue

[lusty thicket]

Question, if i am pooling and im low energy but have echoing rep available, do I continue to pool or pop echoing? It seems when I do pop echoing i am wasting it as my energy is very low

[balmy condor]

they're kinda all the same gameplay, but I think the "easiest" would be the m+ bleed build since it's very focused on just dots, teaches a lot of the basics and then you can spread out and try other stuff and see how it differs

[balmy condor]

you pop echoing

@vivid crown okay nvm

this is even crazier

my friends deep blues were +250/+250

2 golden lava lurkers with 1500/1500

at like turn 13

makes sense

[lusty thicket]

thanks for the answer. Am I pooling while echoing is up tho? Because it seems when I envenom on a "echoing charge", I dont have energy left after echoing is over

unless Im completely following the pooling tool

[balmy condor]

the pooling tool is outdated in 2 days

you treat it like you would a mut

you build cp until you're able to finish

and then you sit on it until you have energy

[vivid crown]

omg 😆 i love the creep

[balmy condor]

some of these are actually fucking bonkers

[lusty thicket]

ah ok thanks!

[blazing jewel]

@balmy condor do I garrote the boss or rupture it

[balmy condor]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/617478699247206410/1275629098621993031/image.png?ex=66c695ad&is=66c5442d&hm=59f077f731f948edcd0d3ffe85b2bc0c296dec754d47f80168dab9939e692b4f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=810&height=499

this is like

not even great

[balmy condor]

dude if only I knew

I think I need to open maxroll to review

[blazing jewel]

tcs am I right

[balmy condor]

chatgpt is gonna put me out of a job

[blazing jewel]

It already has

None of us are real

[vivid crown]

equal rights for robots!

[balmy condor]

if machine learning ever gets good enough to write APL

we're cooked

just machine learn the APL and have chatgpt update the guides

[silk bane]

shouldnt be hard to do.

https://deepmind.google/discover/blog/alphageometry-an-olympiad-level-ai-system-for-geometry/

you would basically do the same thing here where it generates lines of APL and ads it to its known APL lines apl

then from there it keeps testing the branch with the latest line it added

if its improved it keeps it. if not it pushes it back and tests it later

[balmy condor]

yeh the challenge is limiting it to still play like a human and not like a robot

[stuck knoll]

lil bit of dead internet theory

[balmy condor]

like machine learning APL lines is entirely possible

but doing it in a way that isn't gonna spit out some absolutely horrid slop

is a bit rough

[silk bane]

idk it kinda depends on your training input.

the issue is its not a "readable apl"

as in,

[balmy condor]

there was experiments with it a while back and some of the lines it gave back weren't readable

yeah

[silk bane]

like this model, would solve a problem that would require like 10 lines of logic

but it would solve it in 250 lines

[balmy condor]

yeh

[silk bane]

because its just making new statements, checking if theyre true, keeping them and building on them

[balmy condor]

it also hyperoptimized with random numbers

so you'd get like rupture if <2.5 seconds

and you're sitting there like what's he mean by that

[blazing jewel]

[silk bane]

yeah thats also a possibility for sure

dude u kow what

fuck it

im actually curious now

I might try a project like that later

after im done with my thesis

im teaching 2 courses next semester, taking 2 courses, writing my thesis, and defending it in 5 months

yet im here shit posting right now as we speak

[balmy condor]

if you just wrote a better thesis you wouldn't need to defend it bozo

[blazing jewel]

Defend this

[silk bane]

jokes on them

i go in there

they question my thesis

im throwing hands

best defense is offense

im pulling up their thesis

and start roasting it

[balmy condor]

professor, how could you possibly critique my thesis when you're bald

[silk bane]

docotor, its funny that you mention my training strategy here when your wife is starting to use a 2nd phone

what do you thnk about that?

[balmy condor]

holy shit

[bright cipher]

yeah there are some insane trinkets

[balmy condor]

[fallen shore]

where is st opener

beta

[balmy condor]

in the threads

guides will be updated before release as well

[fallen shore]

what thread

[balmy condor]

these threads

also accessible via pin

[fallen shore]

Cool got it

[balmy condor]

[fallen shore]

did 1.2m st

at start

with opener

idk what you were pulling

with m+ talents

[balmy condor]

idk

not something I really think about

[fallen shore]

bleed

[balmy condor]

there's like 15% rng on each pull and beta gear varies wildly and gets tuned every week

[fallen shore]

do u try to press shiv

[balmy condor]

kinda pointless to track numbers

[fallen shore]

with deathstalker

last envenom

or dont care

[balmy condor]

you press shiv during kingsbane

[fallen shore]

you can use another shiv on kingsbane cd

[toxic dagger]

ANOTHER DUMB QUESTION TIME!

What do we have that makes us cleave?

[void mesa]

Caustic Spatter

[balmy condor]

well kingsbane is 14 seconds, shiv is 8

if you have 2 charges you use them both to cover kingsbane

if you have 1 charge you use it for the final 8

and the other charge is just on cooldown

but regardless of what happens

you're always playing shiv charges around kingsbane

[fallen shore]

i have 1 charge of shiv

playing bleed m+

talent tree

[balmy condor]

yeah

so then 1 for kingsbane, 1 on cooldown

[snow hamlet]

[naive thorn]

Not playing since DF Season 1, whats the state of the rogue in TWW?

[balmy condor]

better than DF season 1 because of the rework in DF season 3

TWW itself doesn't really add much

hero talents all kinda blow in their own way

we're struggling with bugs atm

but it's aight

specs themselves are pretty fun

[naive thorn]

Yeah indeed i heard about all the bugs and got me worried, i was considering to reroll not 100% sure

[balmy condor]

I mean the bugs aren't THAT bad

they just kinda suck

like echoing reprimand not working with deathstalker is cringe but not game breaking

deathstalker marks disappearing on some bosses is cringe but it's pretty infrequent

fatebound coins not flipping after edge case sucks but it's aight

[naive thorn]

Echoing Reprimand

I hate that

[balmy condor]

sorry to hear that

[naive thorn]

But at least is playable overall right?

[balmy condor]

yeah

[naive thorn]

Playing rogue since Legion and i dont want to reroll

Cool, ty for the info

[silk bane]

u dont need to

[balmy condor]

rogue is totally fine

no reroll needed

[errant trail]

no nerfs coming?

[balmy condor]

magic 8 ball are nerfs coming?

[errant trail]

people keep crying

[balmy condor]

shake shake shake

[errant trail]

i did a 15

[balmy condor]

it said ask again later

[errant trail]

some1 was like wow i cant beat pad rogue

i liked ur commentary in the tier list

[drifting cloud]

armin your posts in assa are starting to stack up, be careful

[errant trail]

good points

[balmy condor]

wish I had more than 7 minutes per spec

but yah

had to speedrun it pretty hard

glad you liked it

[errant trail]

honestly

you have made me a real problem lol im doin so much dmg

i figured out how to pool sanguini

now its really on

took some time

[wooden jasper]

Which tier list?

[balmy condor]

he's talking about max's

[wooden jasper]

Ah true

[naive thorn]

Forgot to ask: what did they rework?

[spice spire]

He knows I’m coming for him

[balmy condor]

all 3 specs

[naive thorn]

Oh

[patent igloo]

What kind of mechanic are you ?

[balmy condor]

bowling alley

[patent igloo]

Interesting

[balmy condor]

I work on these mfers

[patent igloo]

Nice

I’m also blue collar + rogue 4 life

[spice spire]

You find Freddy Krueger back there ever?

[normal mist]

Same my boyssss

[balmy condor]

I wish

the only nightmares I face at work is my own psyche

[spice spire]

Brother I’m deeply worried about you

[balmy condor]

says the dumbass redownloading world of warcraft

[spice spire]

Says the dumbass that had it downloaded

Get woke pal

[balmy condor]

it's my job wtf

[spice spire]

Sucks

[drifting cloud]

quake redownloading, explain

[spice spire]

I’ve failed

[balmy condor]

quake is top tier bozo material

cut from the smoothest brained cloth

[spice spire]

Amen brother

Literally double vanishing as we speak

[slate crown]

are you going nelf too to smeld more?

[balmy condor]

your very existance is the antithesis of every recorded nurturing deity

[spice spire]

Nah smeld is too close to Smeg and miss me w that

[spice spire]

You good dog

[balmy condor]

are you?

[spice spire]

Absolutely not

I have literally logged in

[drifting cloud]

damn

[balmy condor]

I'm not much better

I'm fighting a mfer with 42/23 blood gems

what even is the counter to that

every single quilboar on his board is 700/700

[spice spire]

Touching grass

[rotund oak]

[rotund oak]

we need a full body-at-work selfie right there

[balmy condor]

1v1 me de_dust2 right now

[spice spire]

How about we just sick and call it a night

[balmy condor]

I just pulled an image from google

[spice spire]

Dock even

[rotund oak]

ruined my fantasy

[balmy condor]

I will not be docking after the allegations against him

[spice spire]

Hated that

[balmy condor]

yeah I hate how many twitch streamers and youtubers talking to underage girls too

very concerning

I hope the victims can get the mental help they need to recover from the trauma

lock up the doc

[spice spire]

Real

[rotund oak]

might be a bit off topic but we lvlin' in two days

[fleet pagoda]

need to prepare myself for the early skinning bonanza

[balmy condor]

no grammarly

I don't want to sound less negative

I want to sound more negative

bozo ass writing widget doesn't understand how much of a hater I am

[silk bane]

cute

u think doomins is your ally?

i was born dooming

molded by it

i didnt cope until zac was already a grown ass man

[runic hinge]

Isn’t that not for a few more years?

[silk bane]

have i stopped dooming?

[runic hinge]

I mean his arms are so short. He can’t be grown

[silk bane]

exactly

[silk bane]

lil trex ass stabby boi

[slate crown]

I memeber the armin deathstalker doom folder

[silk bane]

ty LE youre a real G

[rotund oak]

next podcast when btw

LE and Armin included plz

[south lava]

Are we going echo repri for m+ instead of double vanish?

[rotund oak]

for tww we dont er iirc

[south lava]

Yeah it’s for tww
So it’s still double vanish

[rotund oak]

wdym still

u referring to prepatch?

[south lava]

Nope i dont play pre patch yet i’m just returning to tww
Last time i see was double vanish
Thats what i m saying🤣

[rotund oak]

should check out the guide

but IN GENERAL,even for LVLING UP we do TAKE ER

[balmy condor]

?

you definitely do

deathstalker plays er

[uneven plume]

how do i place myself on rogue beta leaderboard

O.o

i dont see myself im sadge

[rotund oak]

yeah was talking about fatebound

no deathstalker

its dead for me

but is there a possibility we actually play deathstalker

DN doesnt interact with ER

[balmy condor]

?????

it's better everywhere yes

[rotund oak]

back on the deathstalker hypetrain

there are no sims so idk,all the input is from here and my beta experience

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rotund oak]

nice im confused again

[lost hamlet]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[grand trail]

Does ER work now ? 🤓

[balmy condor]

no

[balmy condor]

whats confusing

[rotund oak]

the deathstalker/fatebound comparison my brain says better numbers=better

which might not be the case

[silk bane]

deathstalkers a few % ahead

for sin

you might be confusing sin and sub?

[balmy condor]

yeah idk

the only thing fatebound wins is burst

but it's also rng burst

so idk

[topaz fulcrum]

@balmy condor do u like ER

[proper wave]

Doing some beta testing today on Assassination Rogue, went Fatebound, seems on ST after about 1.5 - 2 min I become energy starved just begging for tea to come off CD. Running the Raid spec from wowhead. Spreading the teas out as much as possible and keeping garrote and rupture up. Not sure what else I can do or if this is what it is.

[balmy condor]

I don't not like it

think it's got some issues and a lot of people don't like it, which is reason for change

but I like resource gameplay

so it's a vibe

[balmy condor]

that's by design

the fact that you got 1.5 min without starving is impressive

[topaz fulcrum]

Yeah I like ER and I dont see how anyone couldnt besides the deathstalker interaction

[proper wave]

It seems we stay full on energy for a long time and even with keeping bleeds on target, it just starts to chunk. I was assuming i was doing something wrong. Is there anything we can do for the fights that will be longer? 3-5 min?

[balmy condor]

people generally just think it's clunky and awkward to play around (we don't play around it so I've always found that strange)

[balmy condor]

no

you're supposed to run out of energy much sooner

[proper wave]

So is the spec dead then for raid boss?

[balmy condor]

what

no

you just wait for your energy to come back and then continue on your way

[proper wave]

that felt like watching paint dry

[balmy condor]

I mean that's fine

spec isn't for you I guess

[normal mist]

I woke up to whispyr fighting the fight once again

The good old energy + pooling + dead spec conversation

[balmy condor]

slow spec exists
why is it slow
that's how the spec is designed
well that sucks

[proper wave]

Possibly, I really enjoyed it in Delves and everything else. It was just the raid boss target dummy where I hit the wall.

[balmy condor]

be like that

[rotund oak]

gimme numbers plz

need to have a clear view

[brave gyro]

i listened to the rogue part of Max's stream discussion.
I've never heard Whispyr be so positive
-# absolutely off his mind on Copium

[proper wave]

You just seem to go non stop and high APM on everything and then on the raid boss target dummy wasn't expecting the shift. Main reason I came here was to see if I was doing something wrong or missing something.

[normal mist]

In AoE you always have good energy income due to the number of bleeded targets

In ST we spam in CDs and chill (pool) when we're not in cds

[proper wave]

Right, pool and play on boss makes sense. Just looking for advice, appreciate the responses.

[normal mist]

That's honestly how the spec works

[brave gyro]

Nuh uh, you have good energy in any situation

[normal mist]

Looool ly punz

[south lava]

MOP characters not coming to retail yet?

[normal mist]

They already did

467 ilvl

[south lava]

I see thanks
I havent checked yet

[wooden jasper]

Wait if you use ER and have 3 CP you don’t use a finisher?

Or more that you do, but you just don’t lead your cp to utilise ER

[bleak ledge]

Bring back Sepulcher assa where I could go schizo, no pooling, and snapshotting reigned supreme

[balmy condor]

this

[bleak ledge]

[balmy condor]

like you don't change your rotation to hit the cp

you just finish whenever ti happens

which is just actually the bare minimum

but people still hate it

idk

[wooden jasper]

Ah ty

[balmy condor]

hell no

bleed snapshotting holy cringe

[bleak ledge]

Let me get that flag buff going one more time

[keen spruce]

[bleak ledge]

Crimson tempest in ST

Man I was alive

[runic hinge]

Don’t tell the feral druids

[oak tangle]

i once knew a feral druid that was complaining because they changed a damage type from bleed to physical or something

functionally identical, but they didn't like the theme

[raven egret]

Because nobody asked, here is the chonky segment Whispyr went to bat for on our behalf!

and its all red cause Asssassination is red don't @ me

[balmy condor]

.

[plain flower]

Maximum content hmm

[topaz fulcrum]

@balmy condor do u think ppl are overthinking the ER combo point things and thats why they dont like it lmao

[plain flower]

Why a timeline where ER is better than double vanish

Sad

[runic hinge]

I do think people think they need to hit the er combo points asap but there’s 45 seconds to do it

[vestal wren]

people get stressed out by it

[runic hinge]

You’ll get there eventually

[vestal wren]

its the timer paradox

basically, if you give somone a task they need to complete with enough time, they easily do it without stress

[topaz fulcrum]

but it just happens naturally

[vestal wren]

just adding a timer that ticks down stresses out a lot of people, even tho they have more then enough time to complete it

ER on assassiantion/outlaw is basically this

on subtlety its diffrent

[topaz fulcrum]

on both specs, it makes it better though

[vestal wren]

because subtlety combo point gain is so "seemingly" random

[topaz fulcrum]

like KiR with ER is almost needed anyway

[vestal wren]

It is why i rly don't suggest playing it on subtlety, but when testing assassiantion on beta dummy found it to be not a problem

(tho i likely didn't play assassiantion optimal)

[balmy condor]

I mean the comparison is:

• A talent that does something, followed by an improvement to the talent that also does something
• 2 points of actually nothing, followed by a point of very close to nothing

the entire column with subterfuge and without a trace is just awful design

[plain flower]

Them moving away from snapshots is a positive i should be grateful

[vestal wren]

the problem is talent design, its 2 extremes.
You get all benefits from subterfuge from other talents, so its useless.
And you get perfect vanish alignment without a 2nd charge, making the 2nd one relatively weak.

on outlaw its the opposite, they need subterfuge to make certain talents work like uuh.
(outlaw = extreme of requireing it, assassiantion = opposite extreme)

it is inconsistent in design, blizz will need to decide at one point how they want subterfuge to be integrated.
Or if they want to replace it with a different option.

[solar wyvern]

Could make the second charge of vanish tick down its cd seperately, so both come up within a close timeframe. Probably have to balance shadowdust and uuh around that though

Agreed its bad design though

[main holly]

Hey I‘m completly new to assa rogue, only played outlaw and I‘m used to spamming abilities like crazy. Is it normal for assa when you „pool“ energy for multiple envenom casts that I just don‘t press anything for 2-4 seconds? (I only got outlaw gear right now except for daggers, so my haste is on around 12% if that is relevant)

[vestal wren]

you can go two ways

e.g. subterfuge is easy made powerful by removing the subterfuge benefits from baseline talents

but thats a hot take, because it takes away power somewhere

[topaz fulcrum]

yeah its normal

[vestal wren]

however, its incredibly hard to make it strong without taking away power

if all subterfuge does is give you ambush casts, a spell you can basically not bind

[plain flower]

Duality of a rogue

Duality of wow dps unfortunately

[main holly]

Thanks, thought I‘m doing something wrong cause ususally every guide on all other specs/classes I play says „never stop pressing buttons“

[vestal wren]

i mean even dps aside because you can just aura buff the spec

the problem of the discussion becomes

"you make me skill something i didn't need to"

[plain flower]

Having 80 skill points and only a dozen meaningful choices does that

[vestal wren]

its a losing argument, even if its in game design a perfectly sound option, probably even the best one

[plain flower]

Tru

[vestal wren]

its not even a bad choice

you did during DF partly ignore the benefits of subterfuge even (esp. on single target)

so deciding just how much of a window of oppotunity is needed can be a meaningful choice

and you can balance the tree between branches

[brisk plank]

What do we prioritize in deathmark+kingsbane window in aoe? Improved garrotes > envenom > crimson tempest or?

[vestal wren]

then again, i think i stand fairly alone with this opinion and thats fine

rather have blizz rework it, because unlike on assassiantion

subtlety has not enough power in regular stealth to make subterfuge meaningful
(what still would be fine, because it can give 2/3 specs good benefits)

[grim jay]

But assassination doesnt anymore either

Tho

It practically does nothing

If intended or not

Idk

[vestal wren]

thats my point exactly

^

[grim jay]

Oh I only read that as sin has power in subter and sub doesnt

My bad

[spark rain]

Does sin or sub have the best ST in raid?

[quiet oar]

nobody knows

[topaz fulcrum]

I think you should look at Whispyr's guide, it pretty much tells you everything you need to know fr

[quiet oar]

and you cant tell that until 3rd raid week

[vestal wren]

hard to predict, tuning is a bit whack.
All we know is that assassiantion was rly good in mythic+ on beta

[spark rain]

They a ton of AOE but not a lot of ST right?

I havent really looked

[plain flower]

Assa always has single target options

[royal lantern]

....huh?

its about tuning lol

[vestal wren]

The problem on subtlety is, you have all the power in shadow dance and secret techniques.
So its more complicated to make subterfuge relevant.
From a pure power level ER provides around twice of the combo point benefits.
And the current gameplay with dust/subterfuge is to completely ignore subterfuge

[balmy condor]

this is entirely situational based on what you need in that pack

generally for just aoe, you would want to cast your CT to maintain it over envenom during the window. Improved garrote is just a generator so it doesn't impact that decision making

[royal lantern]

everyone has ST options

[balmy condor]

interesting opinion

[royal lantern]

who cant do ST dmg......?

[vestal wren]

the mythic+ talents people played make trade offs in single target.
But you don't need or want to make the same trade offs / talent choices for raiding.

[plain flower]

If we are able to take zoldyck we will always have single target down

[balmy condor]

holy priest

[royal lantern]

holy fire trucks

L bozo

[balmy condor]

what does zoldyck have to do with anything

[plain flower]

Excute single target deeps

[subtle oyster]

The question was about ST dmg tuning. Not talent choices.

[balmy condor]

I mean yes it's execute damage

but we're talking single target

there's other talents that add single target too

[royal lantern]

so has arms

and is arms always a giga ST spec?

[plain flower]

No the statement was we dont have single which do

[plain flower]

Yes…

[royal lantern]

dmg in the end always comes down to tuning

[balmy condor]

we don't really though

[royal lantern]

????

[balmy condor]

like in mythic+ right now

assassination is near the bottom for single target

regardless of what you play

[plain flower]

Bummer

[balmy condor]

yes, that's the point

[spark rain]

Damn your sacrificing that much ST for AOE

[balmy condor]

what

no

the single target just sucks

[balmy condor]

^

[spark rain]

Oh sick

[plain flower]

Im sure we will make it out okay

[vestal wren]

its still a month of tuning

[plain flower]

If not we can always choose seppuku

[royal lantern]

bringing dishonor->commit sodoku

[plain flower]

That wouldve been so flavorful a blood samurai hero tree

Or a bloodmagic tainted rogue

Kinda what deathstalker is i giess

[vestal wren]

isn't blood magic Dk?

[plain flower]

Yeah but if you go a more nature esque angle it might work

[royal lantern]

i mean, what has samurai to do with rogue

[plain flower]

Srsly?

[royal lantern]

(beside the fact that they dont really exist in wow)

Samurai where warriors / knights mate

[plain flower]

Ninjas rogues samurai

Its all ubiquitous

Its a video game afterall

[vestal wren]

isn't that druid then?

[plain flower]

I guess

[runic hinge]

They could buff our single target without buffing our aoe by buffing our auto attacks

[silk bane]

okay chef maybe lets leave the kitchen for a second

im smelling something burning

[plain flower]

Is wlogs gonna separate specs and hero talents

[silk bane]

not sure why they would

[runic hinge]

Yeah it’s my brain. It’s fried

[silk bane]

they already dont do that for different talent choices

[silk bane]

i mean, youre not wrong unfotunately

[plain flower]

Anyone can cook

[silk bane]

https://tenor.com/view/desmondpacito-cooking-chef-gif-12378159

[royal lantern]

maybe a stroke?

[silk bane]

sure why not

sounds more exciting than tww

aight im getting in my doomy vibes again! gonna go bedge and wake up happy. that shrimple

[vestal wren]

brilliant idea:

[balmy condor]

[runic hinge]

[runic hinge]

You telling me a shrimp fried this rice?

[chrome rivet]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[north granite]

holinka told me spatter gets nerfed to 30%

[opal tulip]

hello I play thief assassin and I would like to know what characteristics I must have first and second to do mythic + on the war within? do you also have the talent tree to choose? as well as a good weakaura? basic I play pvp I ask for pve thank you very much

[rotund oak]

bruh thats some psychopath vibes

[grim jay]

Wouldnt it be enough to let the dance benefits apply to subterfuge? It would kinda blurr the line a bit, but I dont think it would be bad

[balmy condor]

we're cooked

[grim jay]

Thats cooked

[vestal wren]

it would create 2 shadow dances instead of one

also you still run into the issue of secret technique

having 2 buttons do the exact same thing is not good

[grim jay]

Basically, I wouldnt mind it being a dance in the first place, but to keep it in line and clear across the specs, that would be too much.

I dont think the sectec thing would be an issue, not every window needs to have a sectec imo

[topaz fulcrum]

when is TWW available, like what time

[grim jay]

Depends on your timezone

[vestal wren]

i am happy to disagree with you

[plain flower]

3pm pst

[vestal wren]

the reason they moved dance away from the general tree was to steamline things

[topaz fulcrum]

Ok, I head someone say it was going to be playable at midnight lmao

[grim jay]

Yeah it depends on timezones

[topaz fulcrum]

Ok dude obviously loool

[plain flower]

Depends if servers are even up

[balmy condor]

gottem lmao

[vestal wren]

tomorrow 24h cest

[plain flower]

I predict atleast a minor delay

[haughty flicker]

"minor delay"

that shit isnt going up for at least a day later

[vestal wren]

not everyone is on early access

[balmy condor]

I predict the servers will come up and then any large-ish server will instantly crash and black screen

[vestal wren]

so it won't be that bad

[plain flower]

Hope so

[vestal wren]

but, who knows

[haughty flicker]

i have absolutely 0 faith in blizzard

plus people without early access will still be trying to log in as normal

[plain flower]

I hear epic edition is doing numbers

[plain flower]

This tbh

[bitter crow]

the way to play it is already be online when TWW hits

and DON'T LOG OFF, no matter what you do

[haughty flicker]

i expect dalaran to crash my game before it actually crashes

[bitter crow]

pee yourself or smthg, but don't log off

[vestal wren]

you know you don't log off when going to the toilet

[haughty flicker]

thats what the bucket is for

[vestal wren]

there is quite a grace period before you get logged off automatically

[bitter crow]

you get what I mean 😛

[topaz fulcrum]

make sure everyone takes that day off it will def pay off trust

[vestal wren]

early access is only for leveling

so idk

people will be dissapointed

[bitter crow]

professions

giga money

[plain flower]

4000 honor and normal dungeons

[vestal wren]

dungeons are not open iirc

[rotund oak]

someone silence this individual,knows too much

[plain flower]

Norma are

[bitter crow]

normals are

[vestal wren]

oh okay

[bitter crow]

HC opens with official TWW release

[vestal wren]

interessting

[haughty flicker]

getting head start on professions could definitely be giga money

but im lazy

imagine just spending that whole time gathering or something

lmao

[plain flower]

Fr

[bitter crow]

here:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1031650255625785395/1275022859944722453/my-attempt-to-clarify-and-streamline-the-launch-gearing-v0-45iom6f0umid1.png?ex=66c65b52&is=66c509d2&hm=859aceca8e0d5e66f50317ca03edeb8f7bbe5d4a065f19d4741036d697d001b7&

[rotund oak]

its the only meaningful thing u can do in early launch

lvlup,lvlup ur alt

farm materials

[bitter crow]

important bit in what I linked is "best slot oprions"

[topaz fulcrum]

do everyquest in the game

[bitter crow]

so with early access, you wanna do 8 HC dungeons the day TWW release

so you have the HC vault slot

non-early accessers, won't have to level AND do all 8 HCs

[haughty flicker]

yeah im too lazy for all that

[sudden sigil]

How is assa doing in raids in TWW atm?
Like how is the ST dmg?

[rotund oak]

average

[bitter crow]

yeah but we're bugged to shit

whispyr has linked an entire pin of bugs

IF we work properly, we're good ST dps

[rotund oak]

sub is even worse

[sudden sigil]

Oh my lord that bug list is madness

[rotund oak]

Coup de Grace:
• Does not interact correctly with Nimble Flurry and Anima-charged combo points.
• Does not count towards cdr.
• Consumes the Finality Buff.
• Sometimes does no damage.
• Generates 3 DM stacks.
• Has a 1.2 second GCD lock.

trickster final node btw

[bitter crow]

that's why I said: bugged to shit

[grim jay]

Its wild right

Magic

[grim jay]

Yeah which is good. They would keep that with applying dance benefits or atleast some of them, as that would just kinda equalize the worth of subter. Subter still works basically the same for outlaw and sin as dance at its core, it currently not interacting with most sin talents aside, which might or might not be intended

[grim jay]

It already had quite some fixed even

[vestal wren]

think the damage related bugs on detahstalker are worse because its at least 10% dps lost

[grim jay]

Is there anything to do in terms of farming rep or something? Didnt check if anything is known

[vestal wren]

i assume the easy way to make subterfuge worth is to make it

+1 sec of shadow dance

like it was in legion

[grim jay]

Yeah true. Some people dont like class talents doing different things based on spec tho
dunno why, if the core idea is the same it doesnt bother me at all, would probably even be better balancing-wise

[vestal wren]

true

but talents already behaved diffrently before

e.g. shadow dance gave a stack of shadow dance to subtlety

[south lava]

Is spatter getting nerfed? Or nah

[balmy condor]

who knows

[rotund oak]

yeah its alot man

[balmy condor]

it's possible it does

it's possible it doesn't

[vestal wren]

people think of nerfs because of how dominant sin was in m+ on beta

but we have a month of tuning changes left

so nothing to worry about now

[grim jay]

Think some other classes have stuff like that aswell

[rotund oak]

assuming u end with the loremaster thing(all quests in the map) u will be around revered so u will get some prof recipes and gear in the way

other than that no

its just raids and m+ when they launch

and prof farming

[vestal wren]

hero talents do that all over the place and are shared

[south lava]

Meanwhile frost dk and ele doing big aoe pressing 3 buttons🤣

Pls dont nerf spatt🤣

[rotund oak]

frost dk is monstrous

[bitter crow]

@balmy condor my man, do you EVER sleep oO??

[lapis lantern]

will get nerfed IMO lol

[rotund oak]

idk its blizzard

[haughty flicker]

let frost enjoy a week or two out of unholys shadow

[balmy condor]

famously not

[rotund oak]

they are pretty close arent they

almost same dmg

UH should do more ST iirc

[haughty flicker]

afaik yeah

but being close is a lot better than the past

[rotund oak]

the reason i dont believe outlaw will see the light of day is because fury and DK are both generally rly strong

why play outlaw when u can play fury/dk

makes no sense to my head

[bitter crow]

you still need a poor sod in the raid giving atrophic DR 😛

[haughty flicker]

Will just have to see how tuning turns out

Better to keep an eye on whatever specs are just under the overperformers

Although ngl tuning aside I’ve been playing aff recently and it’s actually really fun

I’m not used to casters though, was doing sennarth and the constant running uphill felt like ass

[rotund oak]

i wanna see how hpally plays out but im hyped for mage

that class is just ridiculously powerful

[haughty flicker]

Well yeah it’s mage

[bronze pike]

yes but no

outlaw can be strong af if tuned

[onyx mesa]

Mage is managed by the intern, corporate is just like "you do your best, whatever you want"

[bronze pike]

people tend to forget how outlaw cna snowball out of control if they actually fix rogues bugs and give outlaw a buff

[royal lantern]

yes

[rotund oak]

outlaw's problem isnt tuning though

[royal lantern]

like, sorry but, outlaws really managed to gaslight everyone and themself into beliving that outlaw is always bad

its ridicolous lol

[bronze pike]

this

people always want to uncap bladeflurry but dont think about what that actually means

[bronze pike]

its bugs, coup and killing spree

[rotund oak]

so,2 out of 3 arent a tuning issue

its a design

[dark crag]

It's outlaw

[glacial stump]

@balmy condor well spoken on the max stream

[onyx mesa]

Does KS just spit you out in a random spot still?? why is that still a thing?

[glacial stump]

they hate us?

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/shrug-gif-25269231

[onyx mesa]

fair

[desert cove]

blizz thinks its a good ability ig

don't know why it's so hard to just make it an outlaw sec tech

[onyx mesa]

"I know what will fix outlaw, more RNG"

[bronze pike]

the famous words of tettles and others

you buff something enough

and people stop giving a fuck about "design"

[haughty flicker]

Frost mage go brrrr

[rotund oak]

im sorry i dont repeat that deranged owl but ye outlaw has fundamental design issues

[haughty flicker]

Hehehe ice lance

[chilly herald]

True. Some people just want to top the meters

[desert cove]

yeah when one of the hero talent trees is just totally unviable b/c of the risk of KS, there is a big problem lol

[rotund oak]

and 1.2 gcd lock is big no and ks is just deathlog parsing

[desert cove]

yep

[rotund oak]

idk how is that a tuning issue

ppl coping smh

[bronze pike]

imma be real

and its a contriversal statement

people are overreacting with killing spree killing you

ya your slapping it on cd

[desert cove]

okay, I wanted to be that person, that believed it was overblown

but then I played KS on raszegeth

I've never been more afraid for my life

[royal lantern]

?????

never had your Mom calling you with your full name???

[onyx mesa]

I loved the comment in chat on the Max tier list about 50% damage reduction and some dude is like "Yea half of 3 billion damage is still 1.5 billion damage" hahaha

[desert cove]

lmao, that is definitely scarier

[rotund oak]

u went too far

[bronze pike]

can skilling spree be better?> yes. obviously

it is better on bosses like terros. so the fix is there

[desert cove]

yeah if KS just locked you in place

[bronze pike]

they just need to make it the norml to axe killing spree making people want to vomitt and lower the "danger" of it significantly

[desert cove]

I'd be fine with it

but the fact that it randomly teleports you

can just put you in a frontal

lmao

and there's nothing you can do about it

[rotund oak]

KS is such a skill that if u add a lil immunity to its duration it becomes incredibly broken

[bronze pike]

but ultimately people will overlook that, hard. if outlaw is buffed enough.

[onyx mesa]

What about if the last teleport just put you where you started?

[rotund oak]

its just how the spell is

just remove it

or change the animation

[bronze pike]

ya 1 out of 10 outlaws will still think its cringe and sucks

but 9/10 only care about damage

[desert cove]

it does that

[onyx mesa]

Oh for real? yea my bad

[rotund oak]

thats why 9/10 do 200k dps and die 5times on average in every key 😛

[bronze pike]

coup is honestly

more of a issue then ks

cause it doesnt work with the outlaw engine in general

[desert cove]

I personally think that the risk is worse, but I agree that coup is also very bad

[bronze pike]

and then it has this weird gcd shit when outlaws gcd is .8

[desert cove]

like outlaw is not a burst CD class

that's why coup works fine for sub

[dire ivy]

Weren’t 2 out of our 4 sec. Stats hot Garbo for a long time (OL) seems like a good design if true

[bronze pike]

anywho, fix ks, fix coup for outlaw, and woopty doop outlaw is playable and a strong choice in m+ for the 100018197161th time

[rotund oak]

[desert cove]

yeah if outlaw gets the fixes it needs it will be just fine

[bronze pike]

keep in mind

outlaw is still a strong choice in m+ right now with fatebound

[rotund oak]

how does this makes any sense design wise

[bronze pike]

hes being sarcastic

[rotund oak]

ye thought so

im dead inside,no humour

[bronze pike]

ib4 "but muh acro" oh no, now your like every other melee with a aoe around them

[cedar dagger]

What's the current build for this week on m+?

Playing this atm.

[royal lantern]

brother, what week

[runic hinge]

Don’t tell my secrets

[desert cove]

yeah but my issue with outlaw rn is that it's just not that great in raid by comparison to sin, I'm really hoping they're within 10 to 15% dps diff overall

[royal lantern]

we have expansion launch in 2 days lol

[rotund oak]

hahahahahaha

[onyx mesa]

always on the grind until release, I appreciate that

[balmy condor]

drop the second shiv charge for iron wire, drop the vanish/subterfuge points for literally ANYTHING else, rest is fine

[grim jay]

I gladly pass thanks

[desert cove]

if sin is higher than that I can't really justify playing it in raid

[grim jay]

But the streamer....

[bronze pike]

ya

outlaw is a consistent flat profile

when raid always favor a burst one

since forever

[royal lantern]

??????

when was the last time a spec was behind by 10-15% lol

[bronze pike]

ofcourse its not gonna be the best pic for raid

also outlaw isnt even that behind isn

or sub in raids

[grim jay]

Can say that about any spec literally

But will it happen?

[haughty flicker]

Yea

Everything will be fixed

[desert cove]

I haven't been paying attention to sims lately b/c damage tuning is so volatile until launch

[haughty flicker]

Trust

[bronze pike]

most likely ya

[haughty flicker]

I have faith

[desert cove]

like sims are great but the fights might have bad profiles for outlaw

[royal lantern]

70faith build

[haughty flicker]

(I don’t have faith)

[bronze pike]

also, why do you think i was such a fan of dreadblades and any chance something proped it up

i shilled it to death?

[grim jay]

Wasnt aug really far behind at some point

[bronze pike]

cause woopty doopty, a burst profile is better than a flat line where you keep every buff under the sun at 99% uptime

[cedar dagger]

thx pal ❤️

[bronze pike]

hence why dreadblades with greed was goated

[balmy condor]

np