assassination

[balmy condor]

yes ofc

[midnight mist]

real

[balmy condor]

APL behind a heavy secured vault door like the recipe for a krabby patty

(used in every raidbots sim used since prepatch and easily found on github)

got the armed bodyguards around the secret code

defending easily found information with their life

my take is that if you're smart enough to interpret beta numbers without being dented

you're also smart enough to find the APL and sim it yourself

but posting random half baked beta sims 24/7 has done nothing but create confusion and cooked takes because people can't analyze numbers

[forest nacelle]

bruh wtf did i miss again xD?

[balmy condor]

evolution of me shitting on izen for the 15th time

no more ranting I'm gonna go do my stuff dw

[forest nacelle]

makes sense.

[midnight mist]

start training your outlaw gameplay buddy

[final star]

[midnight mist]

dont worry i will teach you

im nice like that

[final star]

Gameplay hasn't changed has it

[sharp viper]

you need to roll the bones better

[final star]

[sharp viper]

and carpal tunnel syndrome is a must have for a 75%+ parse

[midnight mist]

Depends

When was the last time you played outlaw

[final star]

s3

[midnight mist]

That's a lie

[final star]

nope

[midnight mist]

Nice lying

[final star]

now what

[midnight mist]

ok you did 3 weeklies as outlaw

[final star]

ONLY 53 ACTUALLY

[midnight mist]

OH OK MY BAD

[final star]

the last time I played it in raid

little bit of a swing in parses there

[midnight mist]

[midnight mist]

[orchid pewter]

Ill show you a swing

Outlaw superior confirmed

[orchid pewter]

I was highly confused for a second, my brain is already hot wired to -10 in keystone levels

[midnight mist]

my brain still isnt

[orchid pewter]

Keep up old man

[midnight mist]

prolly cause i havent played s4

[orchid pewter]

Yea i quit 2 weeks into it

[grim jay]

Is that the same vault you keep the BiS lists in?

[grim jay]

So I couldnt parse even if I wanted to because apm of OL too low to cause CTS

[sharp viper]

yes

[final star]

Conclusive proof outlaw > sub it's in the pic

[grim jay]

I thought it means a 13 on sub is as good/difficult as a 100 on outlaw

[final star]

seems about the same

[midnight mist]

bet under that 99 is a grey

noob

[final star]

💀

[midnight mist]

💀

[grim jay]

1 ilvl diff on the outlaw parse

If you had that one ilvl you wouldve dealt over 150k

Outlaw tier confirmed

[final star]

so real

[midnight mist]

im so ready

[final star]

(He's not)

[balmy condor]

Okay one trick

[lone lantern]

teach me your ways master

[midnight mist]

im impressed you never accidentally got at least a blue

just lil accidents you know

[grim jay]

He always wipes the whole raid

If an oopsie happens

[midnight mist]

good strat

[grim jay]

Its pretty based

Ngl

[final star]

press button in order in guide

damage go up

[lone lantern]

thats it?

no sacrificing virgins?

i already had them lined up

[grim jay]

https://youtu.be/6-wINzrcgMM?si=DYoduYpkmjevTd-d

If you are interested in winning the aoe game

All about them Garrets

[lone lantern]

and dont forget to fok fok

XD

[grim jay]

Especially important to use your CDs on the target that only has rupture and no Garret

[spring stream]

We go deathstalker or fatebound in tww for m+? Im not sure about deathstalker but i heard fatebound is also dogshit

[balmy condor]

Either

Both

[grim jay]

Which Youtuber said fatebound was dogshit

[late surge]

Me 🙂

[midnight mist]

it was me actually 🙂

[balmy condor]

Probably izen cause the sheet linking to an out of context screenshot of a sim result says deathstalker is better

[late surge]

whos izen and why are we hating on him

(I wanna hate too)

[spring stream]

I heard it from zerocool

[vestal wren]

i think i need to make a screenshot of this to confirm.

whispyr states deathstalker is better :

[balmy condor]

True

[static glacier]

screenshotting to send to my gm

[keen mantle]

beta prodigies

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1213911224123785347/1272473186914537472/image.png?ex=66bb1a81&is=66b9c901&hm=418af7a011a0cc9b32abcc1edf6c2fdf5733afd57f5959169c6d5a5cb80ae2c4&

why cant i use this embelish

while i had it in my bags

if tried buying from AH aswell and it doesnt go to mailbox

[final star]

Embellishes are bugged to shit

can't use certain ones with others

it's cring

[rotund oak]

yup do they even work

[final star]

the crit one worked before

now it's bricked

[rotund oak]

ive tried but since ive seen its getting nowhere ive stopped trying idk

[final star]

yep just don't use them

[rotund oak]

😅

[oak eagle]

yo, is there anything I can do on retail to start practice for TWW?

[rotund oak]

not rly

[oak eagle]

shit aight

[rotund oak]

u dont even need to increase ur ilvl

ilvl rewards increase from 408ilvl to ove rmyth track in lvl 75

[oak eagle]

well im still BiS from S4 Fated so

[rotund oak]

so u can just lvl up all the way anyway

[oak eagle]

its not like Im rerolling to the class

[rotund oak]

ye u will keep the gear till lvl 75-76 then

after that ilvl gonna start outscaling

[oak eagle]

aight ty man

[rotund oak]

u r welcome my dude

[grim jay]

Mum, I made it, I'm in fuus screenshot collection

[grim jay]

Considering it was Mr Z, its kinda close

iZen

[steel ridge]

iWho

[indigo comet]

Hey everyone I was watching few videos about sin
deathstalker still ahead of fadebound in both ST and Aoe?

[royal lantern]

both equal

[indigo comet]

But fatebound has more rng right?

[spice pier]

does anybody really know in % how much more dmg does subterfuge bug in aoe compared to ER build without subterfuge?

[late surge]

3ish%

oh in aoe idk

but overall it was about 3%

[spice surge]

No, thats what the subterfuge bug is worth

Not how much better it is than er (it is not better)

[late surge]

oh

I thought whispyr said it was 3% better

I misunderstood then

[grim jay]

Not much more than deathstalker last time it was discussed

[late surge]

my bad

thanks for clarifying

[delicate imp]

how are you guys liking assassination in the beta? I was thinking about maining rogue this time around but have heard mixed things

[spice surge]

Subterfuge is worth like 3% dps, er is worth like 5%

[grim jay]

Sin is like in s3 and s4, a pretty good and subjectively fun version

[spice pier]

so then why almost everybody on beta play with subterfuge? what is the value?

[royal lantern]

want the honest and blunt answer?

they are idiots lol

[spice surge]

People also play the pvp trinket for some random reason

Ask them

[strange python]

Kush is playing 2x vanish it’s so over

[grim jay]

(better dont)

[strange python]

[grim jay]

Hes playing everything these days

He even played a key with the crab build

Iirc

[strange python]

I think casual is too tho

In his keys

If I see this right on his stream

[grim jay]

Just act like you dont

[royal lantern]

🦀

[spice pier]

sry for infinity questions, but to clarify, it is 3% worth with a bug, right?

[strange python]

I am glad whispyr is not active rn

[grim jay]

It is 3% better than it is without the bug and its more than 3 % worse than the regular builds

That dont use subter

[spice pier]

thanks

[balmy condor]

I am

Im just ignoring this convo

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-peace-fade-bye-awesome-gif-16994521

[grim jay]

We got your back

Dw

[royal lantern]

wtf

why did you steal his back

[grim jay]

Because

https://tenor.com/view/bringing-sexy-back-justin-timberlake-gif-11019783

[strange python]

Fuckin hell bro when do you sleee

Sleep*

[grim jay]

Whenever he runs out of Monster

[balmy condor]

I kinda don't

[strange python]

Newschool Vampire

[fluid glade]

what trinket do you think is better

[rotund oak]

its not rly rng-ing all that much my man

[maiden sierra]

Anyone got any sims for sin st?

I want to know what trinkets were used in the sims

[oak eagle]

they prob play pvp trinket because its a 1 min cd that gives main stat for the entire duration of cds

[royal lantern]

what 1min cds

kingsbane?

kingsbane alone doesnt do shit lol

[oak eagle]

the trinket

is a 1 min cd

[royal lantern]

yes

[oak eagle]

and its not weird asf like the other trinket that gives main stat

[royal lantern]

why would you use that

[oak eagle]

from the raid

[royal lantern]

there is literally a generic 2min cd mastery trinket from m+

which we will use

PvP items are not great outside of PvP on purpose

+whats the use of a 1min cd trinkst for assa, when assa is a 2min cd spec

[normal mist]

Isn't the pvp trinket giving away too much agility? I've read that somewhere

I might be wrong, and I don't have beta

[spice surge]

It also has like 20% less stats on average than pve trinkets

Because its puposefully kept bad for pve by blizzard so we dont have to pvp to get our bis trinket

[fluid glade]

for beta then what trinket would you recommend in its stead that would perform better

[spice surge]

Skardyns grace

Or transmitter if you can stomach it

[fluid glade]

dont see the grace trinket on vendor unless im blind

if i get used to transmitter probably wont feel as bad

[spice surge]

Ye its not on the vendor for some reason

None of the returning dungeon trinkets are

[grand trail]

Because that transmitter is headache in keys so most people who try it swapped back to pvp trinket as the grimbatol one isn't on vendor

I played transmitter for whole day and it put me in very difficult spots or I can't even do the task in cds

It's hard to explain to people who actually did not try it in multiple keys

[steel ridge]

When i read minigame it died for me

[grand trail]

It probably will be OK in raid but in keys what I endup doing was push bleed on everything step away 15y from pack do minigame and go back

[steel ridge]

Lmao

not happening

[fiery fable]

what talents are people running for m+ rn? which one is pulling further ahead? bleed or hybrid?

[grand trail]

Rn on retail or beta

[fiery fable]

retail

[grand trail]

I don't do retail keys on prepatch so idk

[echo leaf]

Hello I have a question. Do we still sprea garotte on aoe pulls with caustic splatter talented? Or just focus the main target?

[gusty mirage]

Remember when everyone hated puzzle box

And then witherbark when it came back?

So glad they made an even more cursed trinket

[gusty mirage]

You’d still want to spread bleeds for energy sustain, but Indiscriminate Carnage takes care of that on pull. You just reapply as needed

Focusing on rupture until you reach max scent of blood stacks

[spice surge]

The only silver lining about it is that you can use it upto 15 seconds before you need it so you can in theory plan ahead on how to deal with it

[gusty mirage]

[spice surge]

Just dont run an on-use trinket then, thats probably the play in m+ anyway as assa since you often end up wasting or holding DM

[echo leaf]

Alright ty always was an outlaw main multidotting is so hard for me to grasp 😂

[gusty mirage]

You got this because you are a gamer

[faint vessel]

a weakaura hud like whispyr's edit or the other ones pinned helps. until higher keys you wont need to deal with re-applying the bleeds, either

[vestal wren]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[grand trail]

I'm open to all possible options not like trinket would matter first month or two in keys

[arctic venture]

!macros

!macro

bah!

I need macro for tricks of trade

Somebodie can help me?

😄

[limber lion]

Yeah I mean I get why the number is big, but not why they introduce a big number, then they half it then they buff it 4 times to get back to the number we started with in the first place xdd

[arctic venture]

Focus.

[limber lion]

#showtooltip
/cast [@focus]Tricks of the Trade

[arctic venture]

Thx hero!

[grim jay]

I almost had to reread the messages before

Yeah it kinda feels like they dont know where they want the energy to be at

[subtle tundra]

i miss font of power

• ashvane trinket

im arrrriving

[spice surge]

Casters have a version of this in tww

It stacks up and you can use it whenever you want, the longer you wait the more stats it gives

[grim jay]

I miss draught of souls

Would love to see people hating

[royal lantern]

we talk about the guys that seemingly random give us more and more cp

for some reason

cant wait for depeest stratagem and way deeper stratagem

(and ER is still 7cp ofc)

[flint marsh]

yo does any genius have a working world marker cycle macro? prepatch has broken mine

[hard river]

fancy icons in pin

copying me !

[shy pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/peaches-the-dog-damian-walter-hitting-gif-16355532

[hard river]

big ass gif disrupting chat, should ban 🤔

[vast pond]

Convergence of fate was the best trinket IMO

[shy pecan]

!banana solo

[grim jay]

Dont say that out loud

You will trigger the anti cdr gang

[tawny pewter]

Could anyone post me good TWW Beta Assasination build for Fatebound in m+?

I just installed it and looking for one :>

[marble hemlock]

#1271660967272386601

[tawny pewter]

Are there any sims right now for that Fatebound build ST wise? Like 2 min training dummy general dps?

[fluid glade]

yo how do you apply the vivacity embellishment to weapons, it says none available on beta

[balmy condor]

embellishments don't work at all on beta

[balmy condor]

sim yourself

[bitter wasp]

I am deciding between night elf and dwarf for my alt rogue. Is it possible to use Shadowmeld + Stealth for offensive purposes? I tried on dummies and it seems like there is an internal cooldown or something and it is not possible to use stealth for like 5 seconds after shadowmeld

[balmy condor]

it is possible yes

you have to meld, stand still, and then go into stealth

[fluid glade]

my dawnthread lining is working

some seem to work some dont

[tawny pewter]

Seems not really precise, it sims for me and i do easily 450-490k

1 Target Dummy, 2 minutes, no buffs

[balmy condor]

do you have a link to a log

[tawny pewter]

I didn't, just using details, let me log it and check

[balmy condor]

its easy to be logging on a dummy on beta that has debuffs and stuff

raidbots target dummy is perma 99% hp and there are 0 debuffs

so make sure you're hitting something isolated

[twin ermine]

Anyone elses WoW crash?

[bitter wasp]

There is a lot of downtime doing this. Is it worth?

[balmy condor]

if you need the iron wire silences or min-maxing damage yeah

it's not any better than a normal racial though

[royal lantern]

not really

[balmy condor]

so it's not "worth" in that sense

[tawny pewter]

Changed the target to Raider's Training Dummy in Zuldazar

[balmy condor]

brother that dummy is 0%

[tawny pewter]

485k ST, you can see my Deathmark is going off CD

[tawny pewter]

I can see, but all of them are overloaded with ppl in BEta

[balmy condor]

ofc you're gonna be beating sim xd

[tawny pewter]

I just logged in 10 min ago, gonna do some raids with ST and test it out 😄

[tawny pewter]

Dungeoner's one is same as raid one according to debuffs?

[balmy condor]

there's also a fair amount of bugs not accounted for

[bitter wasp]

Thanks for the answers! I will go with dwarf then

[balmy condor]

so like

it's not exactly 1 to 1

[tawny pewter]

Yeah i can understand that, it's still beta

[balmy condor]

should be yeah

[tawny pewter]

Gonna try to find one later, maybe late in night there will be less ppl 😄

[tawny pewter]

Yeah, i knew that in Silvermoon it's gonna me empty, more accurate, you were right!!

[balmy condor]

fatebound also got a lot of RNG after they buffed the coins hella

so you'll be seeing quite a lot of swings

when I was dummy testing there was one pull where my details was showing like 2% tails damage and I thought I was going insane

but it was just insanely heavy heads flips

[tawny pewter]

Yeah it looks kinda more random than the other one, gonna start testing both of em, just starting my Beta Adventure, but thank to your tips i really have it well on Retail actual patch, i love playing Rogue! ❤️

[tawny pewter]

Yeah, i can feel that

[merry tapir]

any WA for tracking all the dots/buffs we need to track?

[rain mortar]

It’s crazy how now every streamer I watch is saying Sin rogue is S tier and the most DPS in m+ now. This was kind of my fear. Aura buffs so we look good but not really address the issues. So be it, let’s just hope we done get nerfed dmg wise

[balmy condor]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[silk bane]

bros a certified head enjoyer smh

[chilly herald]

@tawny pewter mage ignite bugs every expansion on some scaling stuff, like dummies/m+. probably many dot effects are, including assa's dots

[balmy condor]

what

[tawny pewter]

XD

[balmy condor]

bro was just hitting a dummy at 0% and getting execute effects

aint that deep lmao

[tawny pewter]

Yup

[balmy condor]

I think m+ nerfs are pretty much inevitable currently

but idk

[silk bane]

they rarely tune for M+

[rain mortar]

I’d take a 10% nerf if they made dwathstslker mark application better haha

[chilly herald]

There is special scaling code part that breaks every expansion. They have some sort of "latestExpansionDamageModifier" that is not scaled properly upon new prepatch. That what I meant in the previous message

[balmy condor]

the funny part of the whole m+ thing to me is that there's always a crowd of "oh assa could never be meta in m+" the same way "oh outlaw could never be meta, it's capped!"

and it's those same people that are then complaining about how busted op the same specs are

[rain mortar]

Well - what’s interesting is that even though assa is top m+ dmg right now, it STILL might not be “meta” or in what they consider the “god” comp

[balmy condor]

yeh open world scaling is insanely whack

[rain mortar]

What was the last time there was a melee meta in m+?

[chilly herald]

DF s1 MDI - DF s1 MDI

That's it on my memory

ferals and udk?

[vestal wren]

thats because its not log enough in the spot

[balmy condor]

yeah season 1 dragonflight had rogue meta

[rain mortar]

25% of expansion had melee meta. Was it full melee though or not rogue and ranged DPS?

[vestal wren]

rogue was always played at the top

[chilly herald]

I recently found out that there are two "metas" and different people mean different things.
Meta by high level players = required groupcomp to survive a key
Meta by everyone else = spec to get easy invites in m+ 🤣

[vestal wren]

before aug

[balmy condor]

shadowlands was also big rogue meta

[vestal wren]

even if it wasn't meta

[balmy condor]

full melee has never existed I'm pretty sure

[royal lantern]

remember the medieval times of BfA S1

where assa was kinda good in m+, and you read "how can outlaw EVER be good in m+ when assassination can garrote 3 targets and silence them for 6seconds while doing dmg??????"

[balmy condor]

there's too many ranged mechanics to bait or whatever

[vestal wren]

just my opinion, but BfA had a very big impact on the perception of Rogues position in m+

[rain mortar]

Yeah I mean if there is a melee - it’s usually a fight over 1 spot a melee can take while all others are ranged right?

[balmy condor]

correct

[chilly herald]

Aug broke the meta because sooner or later it's gonna be about defensives and not about the damage, but not a single spec can outshine Aug in DF.
Maybe they finally nerf Aug defensives in TWW and it will break at least 1 part of the high level meta

[vestal wren]

possibly in bfa, highest chance

[silk bane]

it was rogue enhance boomie

[granite leaf]

META = Most Effective Tactics Available - means different things at different levels of gameplay, so yeah the 2 different types of meta thing works

[iron valve]

my friends all play melee, makes m+ interesting 🙃

[grim jay]

there were one or two melee comps, but they never were the best atleast

[silk bane]

but by the end of season u had mage spriest boomie

[placid adder]

^

[rain mortar]

We have seasons with meta being full ranged - let us have one where the meta is all melee haha

[royal lantern]

yeha

like, sorry but Outlaw during BfA turned Rogue (and specificaly) into THE m+ class for quiet a few people

hell, before BfA S2 outlaw was seen as a meme spec nobody played, then it was OP in m+ (and at the time m+ started to become popular) and you had soooo many people go Outlaw only for m+ and quiet a few never left

[rain mortar]

Rogue, DK, enhance, prot warrior, resto Druid. Feeeeed me

[granite leaf]

RWF/TGP/whatever - The most likely to beat the timer/boss/etc...
pug meta - most likely not to die every pull

[silk bane]

until now. with how sin, pwarr, dk look i woudlnt be surprised to see some sort of pwarr rogue dk enhance rdruid/pres meta

[placid adder]

They just need to do more dmg than intellect buff

[rain mortar]

Long way to go though

[silk bane]

?

bro sin and dk are like doing 15-20% more damage than ltiearlly anyone else

without raid buffs

add wf and shout

and theyre like 30% ahead now

[granite leaf]

Until raid week, I'm not paying too close attention to %s

[balmy condor]

yeh its possible, I cba really trying to follow m+ meta

it's gonna be the top 5-6 groups playing whatever they think is god comp and then the top 100 will follow suit and then that'll trickle through pug meta and every mfer is gonna be playing it

[granite leaf]

Until raid week patch*

[vestal wren]

there we go

[balmy condor]

m+ community is just degen

[silk bane]

yeah theyre not gonna nerf an already average in raid spec because of M+

[vestal wren]

season 2 BfA had full melee groups

[silk bane]

has never happened as long as Ive played the game atleast

[granite leaf]

yep

[vestal wren]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-bfa-2/all/world/leaderboards

[iron valve]

this is a backronym, meta is just short for metagame

[balmy condor]

holy hella @marble hemlock x lashga

what a throwback

[vestal wren]

haha

[royal lantern]

seli when he was only old

[vestal wren]

also just to point it out

[royal lantern]

and not acient

[vestal wren]

even when outlaw was 100% the better pick, some things never change

[balmy condor]

my goat

[granite leaf]

I'm aware but that doesn't really work in wow since it's not a traditional rpg with character choice etc...

[silk bane]

I heard he taught god how to make the earth. he was there when god discovered fire to then give it to mankind

[rain mortar]

Obviously this is just one guys opinion - but Dork on stream yesterday was saying Sin rogue damage is absolutely insane, but he still doesn’t believe even if it stayed how it is now that they would be in “meta” because they won’t fit the comp he expects.

[subtle tundra]

seli on the list, good list

[vestal wren]

yoda on the list too

[balmy condor]

[royal lantern]

who the hell is dork

is that yet another "Big M+ player" i dont know about and probably dont wanna know about

[subtle tundra]

hope they gut assa. 30% dps nerf

[granite leaf]

Dorki?

[rain mortar]

Dorki

[silk bane]

based varas my goat

[royal lantern]

then say dorki

[rain mortar]

It was a typo? Jesus man

[granite leaf]

Who is the Ma guy

Oh I meant Max 🙃

[royal lantern]

you mean mr.21?

[silk bane]

yeah this is cope. if sin is doing as much damage as it does now, youre playing it

[vestal wren]

think melee in general has some disadvantages, its not only rogue

[silk bane]

he just is super cope on the aug mage train but at the end its just who does more damage

[placid adder]

You can easily slid sin in with a SP

[vestal wren]

as much as i think the discussion is stupid and leading nowhere

[granite leaf]

Oh I love the melee/range debate, I remember it back in vanilla too 😄

[vestal wren]

but acro did help melees to stay competitive

[royal lantern]

yeha, its always funny lol

[subtle tundra]

buddy assa was playable this season just cause it has synergy with sp and aug

[royal lantern]

like, in the end its almost always just dmg

[vestal wren]

but armin is correct too

[subtle tundra]

if its ALSO really good dps, assa is meta 100%

[vestal wren]

if you do like 10-20% more than 2nd best dps

you play it

[rain mortar]

Yeah his point wasn’t rogue specific - just that melee is kind of bad in m+ inherently

[vestal wren]

i don't think melee is bad, but i think some dungeons can be quite punishing

[rain mortar]

I mean for 99.9% of people anything is fine

[chilly herald]

At certain key level, damage is no longer an issue. It's all about defensives. And now think who are you replacing:

• aug is hardlocked even with the black attunement nerf
• mage is hardlocked coz it makes aug and healer more efficient + also it's a mage with billion of utility
• spriest who has PI + uncapped aoe + brings 5% hp which is sort important in m+

[granite leaf]

Melee being very restricted in where they can do damage is always a distinct disadvantage in certain situations

This is not new

This was an issue 19 years ago, it's still an issue now 😄

[vestal wren]

absolutely, but i do think this statement is just trying to dismiss the discussion

[silk bane]

for what they do it is bad. but its not relatable to most people. like imagine halls of infusion -> you rescue the spriest on the bench so he doesnt ahve to move from the jumpy guys. melee cant do that, and they have to run around dodge frontals and swirlies and be in melee range to kick/stun

[granite leaf]

You just live with it

[silk bane]

but also, another thing he did say that people are ignoring is that dungeons feel very different than DF now. youre not uber mega super turbo big pulling anymore

you pull 1 pack, maybe 2 at a time and thats that

[subtle tundra]

thats cause of DF dungeon design. if blizz goes back to dungeons balancing from SL/BFA half of what you typed there doesnt matter

[rain mortar]

Well that’s not my intent - I was just saying that I think Dorki is probably right, but that his view doesn’t impact most people. The reality is melee is at a disadvantage and it goes up and up the more melee you have in group

[silk bane]

so theres less "abusable" shit for ranged

[granite leaf]

I miss season 1 shadowlands, getting pride, pulling 6 packs, throwing down ashen hallow and topping dps as holy

[vestal wren]

yes, but most balancing changes don't

[hollow stone]

melee is easier in raid, ranged is easier in m+

[spice surge]

""working"", it doesnt scale with ilvl and the stats it gives is significantly lower than it should be. But its giving a non-zero value atleast ye

[rain mortar]

Fair enough - I mean does it make sense for bliz to say we want all melee to do more DPS in m+ because they have other disadvantages?

[chilly herald]

Yeah. I saw Theon (or Theun) video about BFA-SL healing vs DF and it's insane. Blizzard said they gonna nuke this oneshot meta (and most defensive buttons) around Midnight

[royal lantern]

its not a general thing and depeends on the encouners 👍

[silk bane]

yeah this is cope. if you have the damage you cna play safe win. why do you think no one ever timed a 22 ulda? they could all live the bosses. turns out you had no time and had to do giant turbo pulls and your tank just died

[subtle tundra]

idk who that is but i loved SL/BFA m+ cause raid-like defensive usage and timings wasnt a thing until you did world first keys

[hollow stone]

absolutely, but in general, that is true

[subtle tundra]

now guess what im doing a 14 nokund and unless i have elusiveness i cant survive

wtf?

[chilly herald]

Sham heal theorycrafter. I haven't played BFA, but was doing some SL m+ and it was way easier indeed.

[royal lantern]

imagine a world where blizz would actually know what they wanna do with m+ and go trought with a vision, instead of just always panic reacting to the community beeing angry at any change ever

timer bad, so timers dont matter anymore and its about surviving stuff, but thats bad aswell because now it fucks some classes

repeat endlessly because they ALWAYS just repeat those 2 because people complain all the time

[spice surge]

Also, survival was the key factor in dragonflight, but in previous seasons its definitely not always been survival compared to damage

[vestal wren]

difficult discussion. I think melees being bad is often overstated but also think design is sometimes not considering shortcommings.

[spice surge]

Even season 1 of dragonflight had a couple of dungeons where damage was more important than survival

[royal lantern]

a big thing imo is

most of the time, ranged in raids is funny cus the "ranged mechanics" are often for 1-2 guys, and the rest just afk casts the entire fight

[spice surge]

(academy for example)

[vestal wren]

e.g. top guilds like echo started to do interrupt rotaitons on ranged dps instead of melee, because they had problems with reliability due to boss design

the only way to combat this is to force more interrupts

[hollow stone]

this is true, but apply this train of thought to melee and it's even more true -- if there is a "dps mechanic", 90% of the time, your ranged players do it and melee just keeps hitting boss

[vestal wren]

but you can't do that because the game needs to allow groups with lower melee count to clear the content

[royal lantern]

man, imagine a raid without that 1 hunter/mage that do mechanics

anarchy

[hollow stone]

we'd be doomed

[rain mortar]

Yeah but that’s because melee simply has more mechanics to deal with I think? Like cleaves and crap. Maybe I’m
Wrong

[hollow stone]

in raid, generally speaking that's false

in M+, for sure

[rain mortar]

Yeah I’m talking m+ though

[chilly herald]

Moving in melee while doing 100% damage doesn't count as a mechanic

[hollow stone]

yeye, we were talking raid

[rain mortar]

Oh

[vestal wren]

what i am stating is a very small problem, but its kinda the melee/ranged dps discussion.
Melee isn't inherently worse than ranged, but there are just many small things that can make it worse.
And if they are not happening, we don't care.
But if they are, its suddenly a big topic.

and melee is not even melee

[granite leaf]

This tbh

[rain mortar]

There are many mechanics that force you out of melee range though. Especially now with the range reduction

[vestal wren]

ret paladin can cast a lot of spells from further ways, not relying on staying in melee

while e.g. outlaw rly wants to be 100% on the target

its a inetressting topic in general

[chilly herald]

The ones that force you out = mechanic according to my chart. But that red soak circle on numye is a joke for comparison

[royal lantern]

eh, imo its often that way because IF melee has mechanics that interupt your flow, it feels really bad because you are just walking and waiting

and people notice that

ranged doesnt have that problem because they can always "play the game" if that makes sense

[vestal wren]

thats only because you have less tools to deal with it

as ranged, requireing movement

[hollow stone]

in most cases, no tools to deal with it :p

oh lemme throw a dagger at this boss

[silk bane]

pretty sure you cant soak that and do damage anymore. many specs already couldnt I think

[royal lantern]

you can

always could lol

never needed more range for that

[silk bane]

idk my warriors were bitching they couldnt

[royal lantern]

source: i never used acro the entire tier

yeha, then they suck

[haughty flicker]

you have to be on the very tippy edge

[vestal wren]

you typically just throw a instant, use a talent which allows you to cast while moving, use a blink/charge/dissengage abilitiy or defensive

[royal lantern]

sorry, idk what else to say there

[haughty flicker]

but it was just barely possible

[royal lantern]

you just stay at the top of the circle and thats it

[haughty flicker]

unless my memory is just ufcking with me

[vestal wren]

assassiantion has no cdr, so small uptime losses are usually not very big in impact

it is also not gcd capped

[hollow stone]

yea, and dot dmg profile helps too

[royal lantern]

man, what dots

[hollow stone]

it's one of the better ones at dealing with it but

[royal lantern]

you mean energy generation tools?

[hollow stone]

yknow

lol tru

[royal lantern]

rename dots into eot (energy over time)

[hollow stone]

moar envenom

[chilly herald]

That was my point. Melees can have 100% uptime, unless a mechanic forces them away.

All melees must have had ~100% uptime on mythic numye, except the ones who were getting the bombs. Despite limited space, exploding flowers and the stun lines, they all were expected to always hit the boss coz it was possible by the mechanics.

Ranged casters on the other hand simply had to often stop dps when stepping out of exploding flowers and when dodging the stun lines.

[hollow stone]

but that is a good point, the tools melee have are mostly less obvious than the tools ranged have

[royal lantern]

man, melee vs range is stupid anyway, lets focus on the real enemy

[chilly herald]

Augs?

[royal lantern]

druids, mages and blizzard deadlines

[royal lantern]

aug is above enemy

[chilly herald]

Not mages, mages saved Dalaran multiple times

[royal lantern]

aug is final boss

[chilly herald]

(Not because im mage main)

[hollow stone]

that's mage propaganda working

[vestal wren]

i enoy the discussion, always happy to get other perspectives

[cloud basin]

So I'm assuming we will have or already have a WA to track coin flips lol? Cuz I barely can see the coin and having to look at my buffs bar to track it is meh

[vestal wren]

just do it like in the kush clip

[royal lantern]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[vestal wren]

get hyped whenever you get lucky flips form coins

[iron valve]

do you even need to track coin flips?

[royal lantern]

LE Collection has a coin wa at the bottom

[royal lantern]

not really tbh

[vestal wren]

tracking coins is not needed usually

[hollow stone]

depends if you are an emotional gamer who plays better when hyped at lucky rng

[royal lantern]

can somewhat "force" a capstone trigger with vanish if you are lucky and get a 5 flip on opener

but its mostly a meme

[marble hemlock]

Playing melee in high keys

[royal lantern]

dont really need to track them

[cloud basin]

Not really, but I like to know how big of streak I got going 😂

[iron valve]

brb making a weakaura to rain money when I hit fateful ending

casino noises

[hollow stone]

kaching is a go-to WA sound in my arsenal 🫡

[silk bane]

idk man i did it with sub season 1 and 3. had rank 12 world throne for a while too. its not that bad

but youre not wrong that rnaged is just way better

[cloud basin]

I just wanna be Hakari from jujutsu kaisen lol

[marble hemlock]

But what if it wasn't better

[spice surge]

Doesnt matter whats better in theory, in practice its almost always the bigger number that ends up the best

[vestal wren]

only if you played 3x ttk (i am joking obv.)

[spice surge]

Sure ranged might be better, but if melees do 10% more damage it doesnt matter

[marble hemlock]

Ehhh yes and no. At least at the top end, you'd still play that comp even if they all did 10% less damage, because that comp can do a lot of things other comps cannot

[spice surge]

Na

[marble hemlock]

Rescue+grip just too strong to do some pulls where you suddenly avoid all mechanics

By standing on a lamp

[spice surge]

That just depends on the keys, if all of them continue to have turbo free timers like in dragonflight sure

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/catlamp-catdetti-funny-cat-cat-with-lamp-cat-lick-gif-20031670

[vestal wren]

think final fantasy had melees typically tuned slightly higher

[marble hemlock]

On, not under

[marble hemlock]

Legion had too, then mythic guldan happened

[royal lantern]

in ff it doesnt matter how tuned stuff is, because you have a set in stone comp with only a single "free" spot

[haughty flicker]

ff also doesnt have high end dungeons like wow

[old quiver]

is there any reason/NICHE/scenario to mutilate in stealh instead of ambush? (TWW)

[royal lantern]

you always want: 2 tanks, 2 healers, 1 melee, 1 physical range and 1 magic ranged, 1 free spot

otherwhise you dont get the group buff

the buff NEEDS that comp

[haughty flicker]

in savage you can almost always optimize melee ot have 100% uptime

[vestal wren]

raid buffs kinda achive this too

[marble hemlock]

also

[spice surge]

Well ambush and mutilate do the same damage, so theres never any reason ambush outside of blindside or to apply deathstalkers mark

[marble hemlock]

WHY IS IT SO WARM AND STUFFY

[old quiver]

ambush applies hero talent

[spice surge]

Well ye sure

With deathstalker once as your first global

[vestal wren]

33°C here, hows the wether up there in germony?

[marble hemlock]

kinda the same in m+ at this point

GL playing without stam+motw+aug vers/stam

[rare jackal]

about the same

[marble hemlock]

and 5% int is just too good too

[vestal wren]

nice nice, so we all melt together

[marble hemlock]

https://i.imgur.com/okq9d41.jpeg

[vestal wren]

ye ^^

[royal lantern]

the difference is mostly

you dont even have a choice

the buff only activates by itself when you have that "comp"

if you can call it that lol

[marble hemlock]

ye well

[vestal wren]

Mythic+ currently has the problem of one combo being too dominant for too long

[marble hemlock]

it aint that different in wow at this point. cant play without a druid/mage/priest of some variety

mostly due to their unique utility

[spice surge]

Ofc you can lmao

[balmy condor]

YEP

[vestal wren]

3 seasons of the same combo rly turn peole away

[marble hemlock]

i mean obviously you can but like

if youre pushing #1? no you cant

[balmy condor]

was 50% humidity at like 14:00 today I wanted to die

[spice surge]

Ofc you can

If theyre not tuned well, youre not playing them

[marble hemlock]

you aint pushing #1 keys without stamina/vers

[royal lantern]

ye ik what you mean

[marble hemlock]

dps is a non issue in most keys

[spice surge]

The vers from druid is worse than atrophic

[marble hemlock]

living is

[granite leaf]

That's why you need an aug 🙃

[marble hemlock]

ye

[spice surge]

Aint no way youre saying a 1.5% (at best, for most its 1%) dr is absolutely critical

[marble hemlock]

like, the problem with the meta comp since aug was introduced isnt their dps output

firemage does kinda doodoo damage atm its still brought

[granite leaf]

Blistering scales for some tanks is the difference between dying and not

Or was when I played aug briefly

[marble hemlock]

by itself, no, but when it comes packaged with a soothe, taunt, vortex, typhoon and poison/curse dispel, it kinda does

you cant just replace one of those specs with smth else just cause it does more damage, because the comp will lose some kind of utility it needs

[spice surge]

So why did everyone play hpala in s2 then

If druid is so irreplacable

[marble hemlock]

cause they played guardian?

https://i.imgur.com/SqUf5ny.jpeg

[spice surge]

Ok fair enough, but still, its absolutely not necessary

Sure i can kindof understand aug

[marble hemlock]

well no its not "necessary" but like

[spice surge]

But the others is just numbers

[marble hemlock]

this comp just has the perfect storm of utility under one belt

and just nerfing their damage has done fuckall to change things

[spice surge]

Priest is the most meme though

[hollow stone]

should get a buff in M+ that gives you all the raid buffs (including chaos brand and mystic touch), surely that would solve everything

[marble hemlock]

as long as the dungeon design remains a fuckfest of "every mob has to have some kind of cast/debuff/enrage/tankbuster" dogshit, that wont change

[snow kindle]

current meta comp is actually just a raid comp

[granite leaf]

Nah just disable all buffs/debuffs in m+, what could go wrong

[placid adder]

Or just remove from keys

[hollow stone]

couldn't possibly go wrong!

send it, lads

[old quiver]

wait sorry, I didnt fully understand you, so tldr ambush in stealth, mutilate out of stealth, even in subterfuge window?

[marble hemlock]

and the combo of rescue+grip+wildcharge is just very very potent in many dungeons where you fully avoid large trashpulls and their mechanics by abusing Z axis

[spice surge]

Ambush once for deathstalkers mark

Then mutilate, yes even in subterfuge

[marble hemlock]

once blizz devs learn what the Z axis does and how it fucked over their game design for like 10+ years at this point, we might be getting somewhere

[old quiver]

why mutilate even in subterfuge? sorry for being annoying

[spice surge]

Because it does more damage

[marble hemlock]

valid question, nothing annoying about it

[old quiver]

ty for the help

[hollow stone]

z axis shenanigans is just shroud with extra steps (thanks to stealth seeing mobs being added everywhere)

make shroud great again

[past forum]

its wild that subterfuge is a 2 point talent that competes with other throughput talent yet literally all it lets you do is cheap shot and sap

[marble hemlock]

i like how we went from "you can no longer snap because it allowed people to not take damage" to "you can now abuse the z axis to not take damage, but only if youre ranged hehexd "

[hollow stone]

"fine, if we cant snap the mobs we'll snap ourselves; checkmate, blizzard"

[marble hemlock]

ye but you gotta be aug+priest for it

cause no other class can do it

not even WL gateway

[royal lantern]

or just remove keys

i did it, wow is better now

[past forum]

i'll see your "remove keys from wow" and raise you "remove wow"

[placid adder]

Keys only thing keeping wow afloat imo or it’s just ffxiv

[royal lantern]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[granite leaf]

But how else will the chronically online cope?

[past forum]

life uhhh finds a way

[hollow stone]

join warhammer discords instead

[granite leaf]

Or was it terminally online, I'm too old for these zoomer takes

[royal lantern]

1: not really

2: wow and ff are fundemantally different in so many ways, you literally cant compare them lol

[placid adder]

I said my opinion

[granite leaf]

I disliked FFXIV, not just because I don't care for final fantasy as a series, it just wasn't for me

[placid adder]

What else would you be doing besides raid?

[past forum]

delves

[granite leaf]

Delve pushing is going to be fun, trust

[snow kindle]

😭

[past forum]

RWF Floor 13

[granite leaf]

Floor gang

[haughty flicker]

if mdi doesnt have a bit where they just have everyone do delves instead of dungeons

i will be highly disappointed

[past forum]

that would go so hard

[haughty flicker]

mythic delve invitational

lets go

[past forum]

then echo snaps the whole delve to the end boss, and its okay. but another team pulls through a wall and gets dq'd

[marble hemlock]

well thats because the rules clearly state what you can and cannot pull :p

[granite leaf]

The other team didn't pay their sub to ownedcore, that's why

[marble hemlock]

if its not in line of sight, you cannot pull it

so pulling trash after the boss spawns a wall that blocks line of sight = get punished. it aint rocket science

[past forum]

shaman meta for farsight tech. "well technically our shaman could see it with his special shaman eyes"

[marble hemlock]

no

rules are pretty damn clear

like

is it dumb in some cases? sure, but there have been enough mishaps that theres no coincidences anymore

[past forum]

yeah im mostly just meme'ing anyway, i have no stock in what ppl do with their esport pixels

[marble hemlock]

ye like

theres a reason the topteams ask the admins for like 50+ things on whether smth is okay or not

[snow kindle]

the one that still never made sense

was the tott one

[royal lantern]

do i need something else really

idk man, doing poopholme valley for the 46th time is not that much fun

[placid adder]

You don’t but it keeps people on the game

[normal mist]

Where are the FF9 EXPERTS in the chat?

[grim jay]

probably either in the retirement home

or dead

at this point

[normal mist]

Damn it

I'm 15H into the game

[grim jay]

the games are pretty good ngl

[rotund oak]

cant say the same for TWW

[normal mist]

It was 5am 2 days ago and I didn't even notice how late it was

[rotund oak]

everything is bugged like sht man

[normal mist]

What was the most enjoyable thing you did during your testing brother Sap?

[rotund oak]

finishing campaign 2days ago

love lore stuff

it was bugged for like idk

a month

[normal mist]

In your opinion

1-10 how good is it?

[rotund oak]

the expansion?

[normal mist]

The story

[rotund oak]

oh the story has alot of potential

could be a banger rly

[normal mist]

I love good storytelling

[rotund oak]

thing is that we rly know that azeroth or xalatath gonna awaken by the end of the xpansion since the next one is ''midnight''

so assuming this is the foretelling to the apocalypse with all the shadow stuff happening is kinda obvious

there is also the returning

of

nvm im gonna spoiler

[balmy condor]

think @wild lantern is

[wild lantern]

honest to god after our last DM I thought this ping was going in an entirely different direction

[grim jay]

[rotund oak]

[wild lantern]

reference though

[weak isle]

Everytime I try and modify lux/whispyr improved garrote WA, it bugs out where my first garrote just doesn't register as improved

[spice surge]

It has a "main" weakaura you have to yoink as well, not only the garrote one

[rotund oak]

its easier tbh to create a custom WA of ur own and add any condition u want

last time i tried to modify something it turned a disaster to me

[balmy condor]

works fine for me

[weak isle]

Yea think I fked it up somehow LOL

[balmy condor]

can get a clean version from lisonna's collection here

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[balmy condor]

I use her standalone imp gar in my pack

[spice surge]

Oh ye right my custom code rupture can fuck off now

[balmy condor]

YEP

[rotund oak]

LE's WA pack in beta

[normal mist]

LOL TRUE

[balmy condor]

she's talking about my dm don't worry

a whispyr ping out of nowhere is a terrifying thing

[normal mist]

Hello Jez, I'm currently doing an FF9 run for the first time

[normal mist]

Lately yours have been chill

[balmy condor]

yeah for you maybe

[normal mist]

And that's all that matters

[fallow estuary]

Any good weak auras for Caustic Splatter?

Haven't played sin a long time, my brain can't process pressing mut in aoe

[balmy condor]

I would suggest changing the color of your targets nameplate when caustic spatter is applied

that's helped me

otherwise a very simple debuff tracking weakaura for caustic is enough

[fallow estuary]

i believe my weak auras skills are not enough then :<

i can do one for my "target" of course

[balmy condor]

you don't need weakaura skills

just use the template

it'll make one for you

[spice surge]

The "premade auras" function is really good

[fallow estuary]

but i'd like one to check IF i have it applied to any target

[balmy condor]

what

why would that matter

[fallow estuary]

Oh i guess it doesn't matter if i use mouseover,right?

[balmy condor]

aight slow down

what

your caustic spatter just goes onto your priority target

which is also the target you're hitting

you don't need to track if it's up on ANYTHING

it matters that it's up on the thing you are hitting

[weak isle]

If u wanna track main target the packs in the wa sections have most of them I think?

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[balmy condor]

that's precisely not what he wants to do

[weak isle]

Mine has it too

[fallow estuary]

i misunderstood the debuff then

[balmy condor]

caustic spatter is blade flurry as a debuff

you want to be using your envenoms and stuff on that target

kingsbane and envenoms are the main sources of damage from caustic

and you have to be hitting the target for that

[royal lantern]

seli is one iirc

[balmy condor]

or else your kingsbane doesn't ramp and all that

[fallow estuary]

Just to make my thought process clear of why i wanted that weak aura :

I thought it needs 100% uptime (more prio than bleeds on other targets) and while i swap to stuff in AOE to apply bleeds i don't want it to fall off without me noticing

[balmy condor]

it needs 100% uptime when you're hitting the target

you should be spreading bleeds onto other targets for the energy and scent of blood stacks

[austere sorrel]

There's a simple WA thatll just show the caustic icon on your screen with its duration, I use it

[balmy condor]

but if you're spreading bleeds

you're not casting cooldowns, nor are you casting envenom

[fallow estuary]

Yes and i thought it procs of poison applys from fok

[balmy condor]

I mean sure

that 1/2 chance to apply a poison

onto 1 target

which then spatters

[austere sorrel]

Since you want bleeds out anyway I've found it very easy to just mutilate once and say okay you're my caustic target now

[fallow estuary]

so basicly if don't envenom or casting cooldowns i don'T need it, right?

[spice surge]

Your auto attacks also procs poisons

[fallow estuary]

Exactly

[spice surge]

So you want to have it up all the time on the target you are hitting

[balmy condor]

you want uptime on it whenever you're attacking something for more than just tabbing to apply a bleed

[fallow estuary]

thats when i thought "oh i guess they are all using mouseovers now to apply bleeds, so i should too"

[balmy condor]

what

who is "they"

[fallow estuary]

everyone

[balmy condor]

????????

[weak isle]

I don't

[fallow estuary]

:D

[balmy condor]

where the fuck are you getting your info from my guy lmao

[late surge]

I have mouseover bleeds but I tab to apply anyways

[worldly sail]

mouseover bleeders

[balmy condor]

I'd be surprised if even 10% of people mouseover bleed

regardless

caustic ain't rocket science

me hit target ook ook? -> caustic

spread your bleeds, pick a target, go ham on it

[austere sorrel]

Me energy Regen suck!! Me no have agi buff!! Send out bleeds

[balmy condor]

yah

NEED BLEED

and then you have bleed

and then you pick target

ENVENOM CAUSTIC

assa m+ rotation guide complete

[keen mantle]

Just zug zug man

its easy

cmon

[weak isle]

This explanation needs to be remembered

[keen mantle]

spit on that thing

envenom

[weak isle]

And saved

[keen mantle]

send em

[balmy condor]

just press buttons

[fallow estuary]

Since it appears to be confusing, let me try to write down my thought process in this conversation we just had :

I'm returning to sin so i basicly know nothing about the spec right now and all my info is from somewhere around shadowbringer

i thought its important that caustic is up at all times on one target since it procs off poison damage which is also applied while i don't have my prio target actually selected as my target

now i understand that it's not necesarry that its up while i bleed something else and just reapply as soon as im done bleeding stuff and then return to my main target

inbetween the conversation i simply thought "oh this wouldn't be a problem anyway if i mouseover bleeds since i'l l never swap off the main target"

[austere sorrel]

My brain goes FAN ENVENOM FAN ENVEMOM FAN ENVEMOM mutilate. FAN ENVEMOM!!

[keen mantle]

@balmy condor ive read a comment yday a dude said ye i can play sub just shuriken black powder and easy

those dudes deal literally no dmg

[weak isle]

Hey man don't hate on us sub players

[placid adder]

They are stuck in s2 df

[keen mantle]

ye like i dont play sub

im not supporting his opinion tho

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/borzoigaming-borzoi-sand-dog-meme-gif-7540556842493661710

[keen mantle]

even then.

[normal mist]

You've been playing ff14

[keen mantle]

Its funny tho how much ppl hate assa just because you put effort in order to spread bleeds and do dam

wow players are way too lazy nowadays man

[balmy condor]

wdym I don't just press rain of fire x15

[spice surge]

"IC should be passive up all the time"

[keen mantle]

YE LIKE RAIN OF FIRE IS FUN OR STH

[jade abyss]

That gif breaks me hahahaha

[keen mantle]

to press 15 times

for real

[balmy condor]

"they should make fok just work like shuriken storm"

[jade abyss]

Fok should spread our bleeds :x

[balmy condor]

REAL

[weak isle]

They should give sin an black powder that drops all bleeds on every target, 2 min cd

[balmy condor]

fok should reapply garrote rupture and CT to every target

[keen mantle]

atleast extend

ye

for sure

[balmy condor]

and then you just fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok

what a rotation

insane gameplay

[weak isle]

Warrior gameplay

Whirlwind

[rotund oak]

A tldr is gar=>rup=>mut(to apply spatter) if 3+ targets fok to 5+cp=>envenom=>if bleeds run out=>fok=>tab reapply bleeds=>continue the routine

[jade abyss]

Its okay when its spreads and dont refresh x)

[rotund oak]

have a nice day 🙂

[jade abyss]

I dont wanna fall asleep while i playing

[balmy condor]

[placid adder]

Can our daggers come pre coated with venoms

[austere sorrel]

Don't forget SnD before fok spam. It's not so easy

[balmy condor]

I don't wanna fall asleep while I playing
suggests one of the most gameplay-killing ideas I've ever heard in my life

[spice surge]

Yeah and its gonna be even moreso now in tww

[jade abyss]

Hey you have to press envenom on your caustic target D:

[weak isle]

Surely we get bugfixes

[spice surge]

Surely

[balmy condor]

yeh fair enough, rotation is now fok env fok env fok env fok env fok env fok env fok env fok env fok env fok env fok env fok env

I'm pogging

remove half of the rotation with this 1 simple change

[minor finch]

Sorry as a new sin rogue potentially I saw fok over and over again and I’m not going to lie made me laugh

I’m foking so hard looks at my dps

[humble sky]

Fan of Knives

[minor finch]

I know lol

[balmy condor]

I'm foking hard, all the time

[spice surge]

LETS FOKING GO

[balmy condor]

if you don't read "foking" in your head with an irish accent

are you even an assa rogue

[austere sorrel]

Foking wot?

[spice surge]

Its scottish in my head

[balmy condor]

close enough

that's acceptable

[minor finch]

I’m contemplating my last “spot” on my warband and man the decision is foking hard

[spice surge]

Probably why i play sub sometimes

[balmy condor]

another rogue

[fallow estuary]

BFA Crit Corruption Sin

[balmy condor]

true

nyalotha sin was so degenerate

[fallow estuary]

Press fok --> win

[balmy condor]

it was either fok -> win

or gar -> win

[minor finch]

@balmy condor yeah. Df m+ meta has left me disappointed if I don’t pick one of the god comps though.

Say what you want but df tuning was horrid

[grand trail]

chat go crazy

[winged sun]

outlaw ftw

[balmy condor]

easy fix for god comps is just being a god

provide the divinity to your group

[minor finch]

Why didn’t I think of that

[uneven marsh]

returning player, what is the god comp composed of ?
DH/priest/mage ?

[balmy condor]

whatever the meta says the best 5 specs are in m+

[minor finch]

It has honestly changed each week which is nice

@uneven marsh for 3 seasons the dps specs were the same in the highest keys

[uneven marsh]

well, fingers crossed for rogue in war within then

[lone lantern]

aug mage and another wizard

probably warlock

maybe elemental had a chance

just maybe

[spice surge]

Its rshaman, rogue, fdk + another melee + whatever tank is meta

[minor finch]

Could be but vdh makes it magic. And Aug is still alive still

[dense cloud]

there is a way to buy flightsones right? or do i miss remember it

[minor finch]

Aug mage and if spriest get a tad better then bam another of the same shit

[shy pecan]

[queen egret]

in the hybrid build when playing only 1 shiv charge, do we just send it in the beginning of cds?

[balmy condor]

it's technically slightly better to use it towards the end of kingsbane since it finished ramping at that point

but that's a very slight min max of like 0.2-0.3%

in aoe especially you can sorta just send the shiv whenever

[lapis lantern]

Deathstalker > Clear of Witness: Does the minimal target count for FOk change with this talent?
And does this only occur one time after Deathstalkers Mark or per stack? 🙂

[queen egret]

alright ty

[balmy condor]

shiv sucks real bad without arterial in aoe

[balmy condor]

if you read the talent it's "after applying deathstalker's mark"

so idk what stacks gotta do with it

[lapis lantern]

Ok, so basicly i can FOK on ST one time after application

[balmy condor]

yes

[lapis lantern]

nice, thanks

(=

[balmy condor]

np

[royal lantern]

AAAAAYYYYYYY

Echoing Blades gameplay

[minor finch]

I wouldn’t mind that at all. Maybe bear or vdh. Rshaman fdk rouge warrior?

[austere sorrel]

Do guide writers on wowhead / icyveins get anything for their efforts? Money? Fame?

[night cipher]

warr/ret/aug all work. and bdk tank

[minor finch]

I just want more diversity and I’ll be happy

[normal mist]

They are probably paid

If they did it for fame, whispyr would have quit the game 10 years ago

[grim jay]

is that the new lil jon remix

https://tenor.com/view/shot-lmfao-liljon-gif-4709291

[balmy condor]

Bit of money, some redirects to my twitch/youtube, and people with 0 mutual servers saying they’ve read the guide and then asking a 10 step series of very basic questions that are written in 95 point bolded font at the top of the guide

[willow rapids]

you need to have a guide for the guide ready

[balmy condor]

Also this isn’t really true

My main thing is educating people and teaching them how to play better, and that’s rewarding for me as a hobby

I did the method guide for completely free for all of Dragonflight

[austere sorrel]

I assume it's more effort than worth it for the money kinda thing, on its own, and the twitch/YouTube redirect is potentially worth more to people

[balmy condor]

The money for the effort kinda depends on what the update is

It’s not nothing, but patch updates are usually billed at a flat rate

Sometimes it’s worth

Sometimes it’s not

[austere sorrel]

Oh I was curious about that too. So you all get paid per patch

[balmy condor]

Mostly just lack of work outside of patches

[earnest remnant]

[balmy condor]

Like the pay is fine when it happens

But the work is very feast or famine

I do like a week or two of absolute crunch time

And then don’t do anything for 3-5 months

[earnest remnant]

its either alot to change, or pretty much none

besides like some talents

[austere sorrel]

Appreciate the transparency, interesting

Now, does the ret guide writer get paid just as much as the survival guide writer?

Despite potentially... Different amounts of website traffic generated..

[earnest remnant]

on Method yeh, wowhead id guess so? Icyveins no, if i remember correctly they work with a base + traffic

[balmy condor]

Tricky question

Icyveins pays a cut of ad revenue so no for them

[earnest remnant]

wowhead is the one i have 0 clue about

[balmy condor]

Wowhead and method pay for work done

But like for the rogue reworks

10.2 is a flat rate

But I was like hey we got a big rework

And they were like yeah invoice a bonus for that that’s fine

[earnest remnant]

hmm maybe i shouldve done that

[balmy condor]

Outside of patch updates we invoice hourly rates

[earnest remnant]

[balmy condor]

Idk if method does that, I did the guide for free for df

But wowhead it’s a bit negotiable

[earnest remnant]

i got paid when i remembered to send the invoices