You don't smoke copium
#assassination
strange python
I do both so I’ll be there soon
slim hamlet
Smart
strange python
I mean maybe he does smoke it tho and that’s the secret tech
strange python
This is getting too deep for me
slim hamlet
strange python
shy pecan
Oh, is it discord server charging time?
spice surge
Talent into iron wire for m+, thanks for coming to elmo's ted talk
shy pecan
Thank you Elmo
slim hamlet
Why is this puppet guy trying to bait us into sandbagging for tuning
shy pecan
Elmo's great
spice surge
Sandbag all you want, you know theyre gonna nerf assa like usual and once again Sub will rule
Its a tale as old as time
shy pecan
slim hamlet
Sandbag all you want, you know theyre gonna nerf assa like usual and once again ...
But
I don't wanna :(
Surely this time is different because heroic week is back right?
agile locust
Anyone got a misdirect WA that’s currently working after pre patch went live?
slim hamlet
Is the old one bricked?
agile locust
It’s says updates disabled
runic hinge
Done
slim hamlet
It’s says updates disabled
If you get the "TankMD" addon you should be able to use this macro to auto target a tank and use it
#showtooltip Tricks of the Trade
/click TankMDButton1 LeftButton 1
/click TankMDButton1 LeftButton 0
You will have to test for yourself, I see the addon I usually use for it is gone on my new pc
But it was very similar
Might also be this:
#showtooltip Tricks of the Trade
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0
agile locust
Great thank you
indigo epoch
I just use a macro and set focus?
/cast [target=focus] Tricks of the Trade```My focus is a kick target
indigo epoch
fair. im a shit rogue so ymmv
spice surge
You couild do that, but then you dont have a focus target to kick/stop
haughty flicker
i dont kick so that isnt an issue
indigo epoch
🤣
slim hamlet
I mean the other does it fully automatic
But I am just not sure which macro for it as I got new pc so my old is gone
wheat remnant
!restealth
prisma monolithBOT
Explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:
- Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
- You can add in some sanguine/rupture value from carnage, but chaining allows for higher uptime and smoother energy overall, eliminating a lot of ramp at the start of a pull
- This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths (chain heavy spiteful weeks are only about -30% on stealths)
- You still have vanish which gives you plenty of options to get your stealth effects
- This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years
errant trail
!pooling
prisma monolithBOT
Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back
- If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
- Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
- Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
- With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use
vernal hatch
can a mob actually parry kingsbane, i thought it was a joke, but the prepatch boss just didnt get the debuff
runic hinge
5% chance from the front I think
raven egret
the joke is that its not a joke
pliant remnant
limber lion
can a mob actually parry kingsbane, i thought it was a joke, but the prepatch bo...
Just gotta stay behind the boss always is possible
Front is big bad
no gucci
earnest remnant
rotund oak
sub trickster is gonna pump hard in m+
keen mantle
Trickster sub ST is fking wild
Just needs slightly more gas on aoe somehow
maybe the bugfixes
mild obsidian
Just now dipping my toes into TWW stuff, especially Rogue (other class is lock), wtf is this Fatebound shit and why does it seem like absolute cancer
unless I'm just terrible at reading it seems super janky
runic hinge
It’s completely passive
rotund oak
fatebound is passive dmg and its legit
mild obsidian
Right, but cant RNG fuck you on stuff like not getting the same side 7 straight times relatively frequently?
rotund oak
no not rly
mild obsidian
I havent tested it myself bear in mind so I don't know how bad of a dicking that is
rotund oak
its the less based RNG an rng based tree could have
its pretty deterministic
aside fateful ending that is
mild obsidian
I read it and I get flashbacks to my Legion/BFA Outlaw rerolling the first 30s of a pull to get Truebearing vibes or whatever that RtB was
runic hinge
Fatebound is less rng than critting on every tick of kingsbane is right now
There’s less variance
mild obsidian
Interesting
runic hinge
The coin is weighted in a way you’ll likely proc the capstone
mild obsidian
I hate the Hunter trees because they are so passive but Rogue feels like it has enough to do that full passive tree isn't necessarily a bad/boring thing
rotund oak
if u dont want passive trickster sub
runic hinge
That’s a good way of thinking
rotund oak
if u are a suicidal pirate outlaw is the way
killing spree proactive gameplay
every 20sec u get animationlocked
could die to random stuff
mild obsidian
I mean, I still hate the 20 step program of Sub opener but thats a different situation entirely and I can deal with it
I will never, ever play Outlaw unless it's 20% above the other two
mild obsidian
ill happily take Trickster Sin/Sub and even if I get screwed itll be with a smile over outlaw
mild obsidian
I've been playing Combat in Cata and I vastly prefer it to retail Outlaw that's how much I hate Outlaw
Sorry Fatebound Sin/Trickster Sub
rotund oak
yeah that looks like the safest go
mild obsidian
Bring back WoD Combat
rotund oak
unless deathstalker gets cooked
mild obsidian
Is Deathstalker still shit
mild obsidian
trying to catch up so the videos may be old but everyone basically saying half of the tree is bugged or bad
rotund oak
and u get the cringe feeling coz mark randomly falls
mild obsidian
yeaaaaah that part
rotund oak
if there is an extended intermission lets say
the mark falls off
no vanish and u cant interact with ur hero tree
rotund oak
yup
runic hinge
It’s also tuned pretty high rn
mild obsidian
would you just swap to Fate in that scenario, how hard is it to swap mid raid?
runic hinge
Think it’s just a talent swap
runic hinge
Just don’t play it on bosses with intermissions really
rotund oak
yup
runic hinge
Or if you do probably save vanish
rotund oak
anything with intermissions its a nono for deathstalker
mild obsidian
Like 3 weeks ago my buddies and I started playing catch up with retail stuff and I was reading some serious Rogue dooming but it looks like they've gone a month of weekly double digit aura buffs and shit
rotund oak
deathstalker looks like the pvp go for rogues
mild obsidian
ah that was my next question yeah
rotund oak
coz u dump ur cds while bursting and reset
i can see deathstalker being a thing but will see
mild obsidian
As long as Fate isnt cancer I won't mind playing it over Stalker, like I said I just have Outlaw RtB ptsd
I read any "% chance" line at this point and start hearing the choppers overhead
dark token
Like 3 weeks ago my buddies and I started playing catch up with retail stuff and...
The gameplay is still dogshit
rotund oak
its not that bad man cmon
subtle kiln
It’s dogshit
you all just learned to settle for a dogshit sandwich.
and will think it’s Spam
rotund oak
we got ppl that love french fries on pizza
rotund oak
spam is dreamstate compared to that
rotund oak
after some hours in the dummy i feel like its better to use in the opener to ramp faster
and other than that
ild say on cd
but not into DM windows
but idk,will have to wait most likely for the numbers
rotund oak
depends what u wanna do
if u aoe through spatter n stuff
but its just 1 button
its not that much fo a big deal
true condor
i see ty sap
rotund oak
yw fam
rotund oak
u can do it easy on prepatch
but it wont matter that much since the launch will have the ilvl jump anyway
i mean through lvling gear in new territories n stuff
true condor
yea its the 3rd day that CN server open
slate crown
brothers should we cast ER before the DM+KB or after
In the opener, before. It should basically be your second GCD after Garrote
After that, on cooldown (assuming you need to cast a builder)
Doesn't have to particularly sync with DM/KB
true condor
ty ❤️
slate crown
i want to play assa but no gear
You don't need gear my friend only spirit. And you have plenty of spirit. Oh and you need 2 daggers.
brave gyro
and one more dagger
rotund oak
OH dps isnt rly that important,can buy any from AH even
or basicly do some echoes,u can buy one str8 away
empty mauve
what % is garrote supposed to be at in m+ for damage
dense garnet
i want to play assa but no gear
What ui addon is this?
true condor
What ui addon is this?
dmed
keen mantle
Echoing reprimand works with deathstalker marks now
but not with darkest night , prolly wasnt intended to work with darkest night anyway
rotund oak
darkest night idk man
i think the mark and the way its being consumed to trigger DN is sus
why cant we just apply with poisons or something
slate crown
Echoing reprimand works with deathstalker marks now
I’m fine with it just being the marks.
I’d like it to be DN too but marks are a welcome improvement
pliant remnant
I’d like it to be DN too but marks are a welcome improvement
slate crown
<:pepesmile:689484273593745423>
rain ocean
Which combo points can echoing reprimand hit with resounding clarity? 3,4,5? or can it hit 1,2,6,7 as well?
rotund oak
RC is 3 4 5
rain ocean
sick ty
rotund oak
yw fam
balmy condor
I’d like it to be DN too but marks are a welcome improvement
I’d like dn too
rotund oak
I’d like dn too
loved the new dagger vid btw
balmy condor
Ty
balmy condor
I think wow gear in general needs some work
willow rapids
Daggers, how do they work?
balmy condor
Poorly
willow rapids
Watched the vid and totally agree, it's what I always wanted since having had artifact weapons
But the idea is way too simple and good for blizz
It's not confusing enough
neat plank
!dagger
prisma monolithBOT
royal lantern
I think wow gear in general needs some work
like, idk man
dualwielding is so weird
when there is no "benefit" from it lol
and dualwielding is just "1 weapon is important" anyway for gearing
casters with 1h + offhand item is more important then a 2nd weapon for most dualwield weapon classes lol
balmy condor
yeah its cooked
royal lantern
like, we literally just could make it legion "weapon sets" again and nothing would change
fury warriors would be happy
balmy condor
1 shiv
no arterial
doomblade
doomblade is within margin of error to lightweight shiv
it's all very strange in here man
balmy condor
willow rapids
Next ask him about 2 vanish charges
royal lantern
going trought your video rn
and man
i forgot how smort blizz was there during CN
"lets put the weapon token for warrior/rogue/monk on council"
aka classes that are mostly all dualwielding/need 2 weapons
on the boss where you save progress after killing it 1 time
keen mantle
Echoing reprimand with deathstalker worked on dummies not in key
so idk
maybe not fixed
hoary remnant
Echoing reprimand with deathstalker worked on dummies not in key
So you got the capstone as sin on an anima charge?
That never worked for me idk
keen mantle
when i first logged in before
i got deathstalker mark
spent echoing reprimand cp
and it worked
but in keys it didnt so idk
grand trail
casual was dreaming
misty marsh
hey guys what you think in tww in m+ assa or sub?
grim jay
Watched the vid and totally agree, it's what I always wanted since having had ar...
yeah I mean other games do that aswell
and it works pretty good
grim jay
hey guys what you think in tww in m+ assa or sub?
depends on tuning
normal mist
depends on tuning
that question got asked in at least 3 channels, and the same answer was given 3 times
We're really cool
grim jay
that question got asked in at least 3 channels, and the same answer was given 3 ...
I mean we all try our best
normal mist
We do 🤝
misty marsh
haha the thing i was scared of that in assa channel all will say assa and in sub channel all will say sub xD
tawny geyser
I just jumped on the train of the new xpac after a long vacation and I am really surprised. Is it really gonna be that bad?
Ambush becomes mandatory and all damage comes from stealth? How is this working? I guess its ok for m+ for restealths.. but raids?
normal mist
People are not delusional tho
if we know a spec is legit stronger than others, we would tell you X is better
grim jay
haha the thing i was scared of that in assa channel all will say assa and in sub...
nah usually between sin and sub you dont have that
vestal wren
if we know a spec is legit stronger than others, we would tell you X is better
^ and if both is within a small margin, we will tell you to test both and play whats more fun
grim jay
I just jumped on the train of the new xpac after a long vacation and I am really...
its not that bad and not all damage comes from stealth
not even most of it
normal mist
^ and if both is within a small margin, we will tell you to test both and play w...
You know it!
misty marsh
^ and if both is within a small margin, we will tell you to test both and play w...
that sounds good ye
hidden herald
Ya’ll grieving. Assassination is going to be an A tier dps spec in all content
tawny geyser
not even most of it
Was watching ZucoWow video on it
Probably not the best guy to watch Sin stuff, but he explained it.. a lot of damage amplifiers comes from stealth.
grim jay
Was watching ZucoWow video on it
Probably not the best guy to watch Sin stuff, b...
I dont even know who that is
normal mist
Was watching ZucoWow video on it
Probably not the best guy to watch Sin stuff, b...
I don't even know who he is
grim jay
Was watching ZucoWow video on it
Probably not the best guy to watch Sin stuff, b...
and we arent more stealth reliant than at any point really. restealthing isnt even important in m+
hidden herald
In a key, not getting a single restealth would reduce your overall damage by 2-3%
tawny geyser
Do we have any rotations so far? I wanna see how it plays.
normal mist
Do we have any rotations so far? I wanna see how it plays.
same as now
grim jay
Do we have any rotations so far? I wanna see how it plays.
can use the prepatch ones over at
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue
tawny geyser
Thanks
normal mist
In a key, not getting a single restealth would reduce your overall damage by 2-3...
Yeah, thats about it really
vestal wren
the restealth topic is something people often get very angry about
hidden herald
Ass pumps
tawny geyser
Well from what I saw, its not that much about numbers. Its the fun aspect of the Hero Talents.
Compared to other classes, like Monk
normal mist
Well from what I saw, its not that much about numbers. Its the fun aspect of the...
IF he was saying the fun aspect of the HERO talents is ... not fun, he's absolutely right
grim jay
Well from what I saw, its not that much about numbers. Its the fun aspect of the...
ngl if you just judge the hero talents rogue got it pretty bad, but sin itself is really fun
many would say the best its ever been
and you wont miss anything really
normal mist
Man we are almost in an new era where we drop improved garrote and we legit stop using vanish for it
grim jay
Man we are almost in an new era where we drop improved garrote and we legit stop...
idk if I like imp garrote or if I dont
I doubt we dont take it in m+ tho
tawny geyser
I believe Outlaw is still king for M+, no?
normal mist
was
grim jay
I think zucowow already overcomplicates the whole shadow dance window for sub
normal mist
but it all will depend on tuning
tawny geyser
I think zucowow already overcomplicates the whole shadow dance window for sub
I was watching this one https://youtu.be/adSQjTPw-x8?si=cdYKtsmvH7NCcm1c
Tho its 3 weeks old, so it could be outdated
normal mist
that was 3 weeks ago, keep in mind some stuff was buffed already
tawny geyser
Yeah just noticed
tawny geyser
Share
tawny geyser
Yea I know, hes the GOAT. My mentor😂
hidden herald
Outlaw has great consistent damage for keys but I think sin will be way ahead for larger pulls tbh
grim jay
@normal mist got myself to farm the ring
already tilted
because it fucking lags
as in server lags
normal mist
OH I KNOW
they tested the event with like 5 ppl
and said "yeah, it wont lag with 40+"
normal mist
Yeah you can legit walk out of the PC and go make some coffee and return
bitter trout
Outlaw has great consistent damage for keys but I think sin will be way ahead fo...
It's all tuning dependant but outlaw always will lack as people get more comfortable with pull sizes and they pull beyond 8 targets
royal lantern
It's all tuning dependant but outlaw always will lack as people get more comfort...
thats such a outlaw take
lol
normal mist
some smaller activities dont drop memories, but big boss drops 5
vestal wren
the restealth topic is something people often get very angry about
but tl;dr on the topic is:
yes, you lose damage if you can't stealth between pulls BUT this is easy offset by a faster pacing and does not happen as much as people think it does.
So there is no reason to be upset about something you can't change.
grim jay
some smaller activities dont drop memories, but big boss drops 5
no I meant the boss
normal mist
no I meant the boss
nothing in the mailbox?
normal mist
Never happened to me 😐
vestal wren
some smaller activities dont drop memories, but big boss drops 5
i didn't get 5
servers are laggy/buggy
bitter trout
thats such a outlaw take
So you're telling me it's not a disadvantage for outlaw when people get more comfortable with dungeons they start pulling over the target cap for outlaw
grim jay
Yea I know, hes the GOAT. My mentor😂
ok I watched through it
and the sub/sin stuff is pretty cooked
dont worry
royal lantern
So you're telling me it's not a disadvantage for outlaw when people get more com...
we had 20000000000 m+ metas where the best specs where target capped, yet outlaws act as if the sky is falling everytime they are not 100% giga bis and blame target caps lol
- just saying "outlaw will always lack" is such a hyperbole, when outlaw was THE m+ spec for ages lol
hidden herald
So you're telling me it's not a disadvantage for outlaw when people get more com...
100%
I’ve played outlaw for the last few seasons and it’s pumpssss.. on like 5-8 targets. But when routes get sweated you’re not even worth inviting.. as your doing half the damage of a class that can do some much bigger burst AOE
They just aren’t viable for competitive groups of large push keys
bitter trout
Ye that was fine, now outlaw is the only spec that is hard capped cus blizzard are afraid of what will happen if they uncap BF
hidden herald
They should free us for target cap prison
bitter trout
100%
I’ve played outlaw for the last few seasons and it’s pumpssss.. on like 5...
For keys to be timable ye, outlaw has to be tuned to a pretty high scale to do keys that the untargeted class can do example being S3
I mean IDK why we are still capped
bitter trout
+ just saying "outlaw will always lack" is such a hyperbole, when outlaw was THE...
We're not really playable in raid so all we want to be is decent in m+
by that I mean prog not like reclearing
royal lantern
then we get the same dance everytime
something must change about outlaw 
it tends to be a bit worse on the last few fights in most raids cus they often favor burst, and outlaw has no burst, because you cant have 100% uptime on everything + never wory about resources + spam shit all the time and ALSO have burst
bitter trout
Ye it needs some change
royal lantern
and everytime that comes up, #outlaw goes into a riot
cus that would be le evil change
bitter trout
There’s plenty of things you can do with current outlaw to make it burst
bitter trout
Yeah that’s fine
Losing a bit of flat line profile to spike a bit is fine because that is more valued
royal lantern
i mean
they try that with trickster
the problem there is just that its half assed (like 80% of hero trees and all rogue ones) and they try it with Killing Spree
static glacier
Ye that was fine, now outlaw is the only spec that is hard capped cus blizzard a...
Would you take weaker performance from 5-8 to be able to hit more than 8 with sqrt scaling?
bitter trout
Would you take weaker performance from 5-8 to be able to hit more than 8 with sq...
Yes
any day
static glacier
I personally also liked when OL wasn’t capped
But I did live through SL too with 5 cap
bitter trout
i wouldn't mind the cap if it wasn't for the fact the have slowly lifted every other classes target cap
meager island
Hiya, does anyone have a more updated M+ talent build for assa pls? I keep finding different ones xD
royal lantern
But I did live through SL too with 5 cap
and during SL, many meta comps where capped anyway 
static glacier
i wouldn't mind the cap if it wasn't for the fact the have slowly lifted every o...
I mean stuff like fury is capped but just had roar uncapped
royal lantern
like, people tend to forget that we started with a balance+mm meta, both where capped
bitter trout
I mean stuff like fury is capped but just had roar uncapped
It now has roar and bladestorm
static glacier
If they gave OL one very strong uncapped spell would it fix things?
royal lantern
It now has roar and bladestorm
thats 2 CDS lol
thats like saying "outlaw has blade rush"
bitter trout
thats 2 CDS lol
Have you seen how much damage it's doing with them 2 spells?
royal lantern
because they are big cds with a decent cool down?????
royal lantern
and they line them up with everything?
bitter trout
thats like saying "outlaw has blade rush"
I mean it really isn't
Blade rush is omega useless
It's used for energy and that is it
static glacier
I wouldn’t say omega useless, it was good in s1
static glacier
But it’s fine this way too, OL is very consistently powerful on 5-8
static glacier
You can’t ignore how dogshit meat cleaver is
bitter trout
they have like 5 spells that aren't capped
royal lantern
odyns fury is also not played after this season anyway lol
and they are all cds
like, every single one
static glacier
Fury is 5t capped and is one of the weakest specs on 4t council
royal lantern
^
static glacier
They won’t give us uncapped dmg without fucking up our tuning
bitter trout
pretty much they all say
rotund oak
Outlaw has great consistent damage for keys but I think sin will be way ahead fo...
outlaw has great potential for a spot in the morgue,everytime u press killing spree
bitter trout
"Deals reduced damage beyond x targets"
static glacier
Tuning is seperate thing tho
You think they’d allow OL to do comparative dps to uncapped specs on mass aoe and retain our power on lower target counts?
I’m v doubtful, we’re not mage
rotund oak
I’m v doubtful, we’re not mage
tried sub lately?
static glacier
Also at that point elementals build enh will ask
static glacier
tried sub lately?
Not played s4, but sub really struggled in low target cleave in s3
rotund oak
Not played s4, but sub really struggled in low target cleave in s3
yeah sub has cleave now
also no one cares for outlaw now
its a dead spec
bitter trout
Like outlaw has 'potential' damage, as soon as you introduce a 9th target you don't gain anything, other classes will.
grim jay
yeah sub has cleave now
if trickster is played you mean
static glacier
yeah sub has cleave now
Nimble flurry is lit
rotund oak
if trickster is played you mean
yeah ofc,trickster is the play anyway
grim jay
yeah ofc,trickster is the play anyway
yeah no
rotund oak
Nimble flurry is lit
yup its very cook
grim jay
there is no anyways
rotund oak
there is no anyways
grim jay
deathstalker isnt even half as bad on sub as it is on sin
rotund oak
bro u hatin
bitter trout
Nimble flurry felt like a bit of a kick in the nuts as an outlaw player ngl
They just gave sub blade flurry wtf
Slowly phasing out outlaw
grim jay
Nimble flurry felt like a bit of a kick in the nuts as an outlaw player ngl
arent you busy crying because of acro
how do you even feel that kick anymore
rotund oak
<:SadgeSitSip:729845764695654451>
sub has cleave and highcount aoe now,i feel you man
it must feel bad
also great st pump in m+
bitter trout
Outlaw ST is okay now after the buffs
grim jay
@normal mist what happens if the time runs out and you are in a radiant echo zone?
do you get ported out?
rotund oak
Outlaw ST is okay now after the buffs
compared to sub and sin?
bitter trout
compared to sub and sin?
I never said that 
I think sub and sin are still ahead on that
rotund oak
yeah ik
normal mist
do you get ported out?
nah, event just ends, and you must use the portal back to dalaran, and use the next portal to the next area
bitter trout
But right now sap
royal lantern
Slowly phasing out outlaw
good
rotund oak
😉
alot of stuff to take into account
but in general the relative power is
sin for raids
bitter trout
rotund oak
sub for keys
grim jay
BP still noodle gameplay
how can you leave a finisher down bad like that
on the finisher spec
rotund oak
trickster will cleave for the msot part anyway
rotund oak
bp spam comes with cds so u will see bps 250k-ing
normal mist
trickster is dope
I have no idea what trickster does. Can anyone do a TLDR and is it fun?
grim jay
because it shouldnt
grim jay
I have no idea what trickster does. Can anyone do a TLDR and is it fun?
evis cleaves
is the main point
rotund oak
I have no idea what trickster does. Can anyone do a TLDR and is it fun?
it basicly got cleave,that never had,and also has the aoe potential dmg,also alot of ST pump for keys
grim jay
people talk about for m+
rotund oak
its an obvious one
grim jay
yeah and an obvious issue
like whats the target amount you currently would cleave with evis over using bp?
normal mist
it basicly got cleave,that never had,and also has the aoe potential dmg,also alo...
that sounds really good actually
grim jay
that sounds really good actually
idk imo if its too good on higher target counts
it would be like using envenom over CT on sin
I dont know the current target count rules for evis cleave over BP
but I dont think it should end up being better for overall dps over BP at 4 or 5+ targets
royal lantern
that sounds really good actually
yeha, and now all the other parts about the tree appear
animation lock btw
rotund oak
that sounds really good actually
its cool,there are issues but its fine
idk why ppl cry over it,nothing is perfect
well besides mage
grim jay
idk why ppl cry over it,nothing is perfect
would you like using envenom for aoe over CT, if CT was your baseline aoe finisher, on like 5+aoe?
would it feel good to you?
candid anvil
hey guys, I see serrated bonespike being played in top logs in m+, but it's doing like 1,5% overall max, is there some other benefit besides CP generation and 2% dot dmg increase that Im missing please?
rotund oak
would it feel good to you?
personally i dont mind tbh but ye we are pressing envenom either way
but ye i feel what u are saying
loud hearth
would you like using envenom for aoe over CT, if CT was your baseline aoe finish...
Would be awesome 
Funnel doing AoE is good
grim jay
but ye i feel what u are saying
also the talent itself isnt the problem
its bp being weak
grim jay
Would be awesome <:pepe_chad:1022918986737926225>
classic outlaw
grim jay
Funnel doing AoE is good
good that it aint really funnel
loud hearth
Prio damage* then
spice surge
hey guys, I see serrated bonespike being played in top logs in m+, but it's doin...
Lethal dose
rotund oak
its bp being weak
i think thats intended,i cant imagine having added cleave on a tree and bp being stronger on its scenario
it is what it is
grim jay
i think thats intended,i cant imagine having added cleave on a tree and bp being...
well its not about the cleave scenario
4-5+ aint cleave anymore
and the talent can still have advantages
over bp
rotund oak
4-5+ aint cleave anymore
idk its nimble flurry covered isnt it
grim jay
even if it does less overall
rotund oak
nimble does up to 7
i think its pointless to press bp up to 7 but maybe @silk bane can answer
or @vestal wren
(hi mr fuu sir)
vestal wren
i think its pointless to press bp up to 7 but maybe <@639956635300790285> can an...
7-8 targets is usually when bp starts to take over
but there are good arguments to not use bp before higher target counts
keep in mind that you lose a lot of priority damage by doing aoe on subtlety
something unique to the spec, that is sadly not tuned around by blizzard
rotund oak
keep in mind that you lose a lot of priority damage by doing aoe on subtlety
ye thats the case pretty much unless u are a deathstalker but then u lose flurry
vestal wren
s1/2 it was better because subtlety aoe was actually good
but s3 was changed to be kinda meh
so this strengh of subtlety suddenly vanished
rotund oak
i htink that sub trickster is gonna get some love before TWW launches
yup
it became kinda a different spec
vestal wren
tuning on beta makes it difficult to judge
assassiantion is atm beating sub by quite a lot
i wonder if the people who ended up so loud about subtlety doing damage on beta
still have the same negativity towards the spec
bitter trout
i wonder if the people who ended up so loud about subtlety doing damage on beta
...
I think assa will be nerfed tho, current state seems a bit strong
but then again I can't look at any spec with confidence and say "ahh that's exactly where blizzard want tuning to be"
grim jay
7-8 targets is usually when bp starts to take over
I dont think thats good design honestly
it should be like 5+ or something for bp to take over
and make a choice for or against prio damage
at that point
static glacier
tuning on beta makes it difficult to judge
wow playerbase might genuinely be THE worst population I've ever seen for testing a game
we litterally flock to whatever is numerically broken
and barely if ever test other specs / weaker talents
bitter trout
People get a massive boner when they see they are at the top of the details meter is why
static glacier
I remember beta mages were all fire > fire nerfed > all arcane > arc nerfed > all frost
etc
static glacier
People get a massive boner when they see they are at the top of the details mete...
realest talk, is there any happiness in being top if you didnt play well?
and it's just bc your spec is bugged / broken
royal lantern
wow playerbase might genuinely be THE worst population I've ever seen for testin...
nah lol
static glacier
nah lol
I've never seen people actively go sheep mode about how they play games more than us
royal lantern
thats a general gaming thing in the last 5-6 years
royal lantern
I've never seen people actively go sheep mode about how they play games more tha...
any moba?
bitter trout
People literally making destro lock
royal lantern
bitter trout
I mean most other MMO's have better tuning
static glacier
any moba?
league has plenty of different champs, people have mains and won't always change mains based on meta
royal lantern
I mean most other MMO's have better tuning
they dont
and idk where you get that from lol
static glacier
I think wow's tuning is actually getting better year after year
grim jay
I mean most other MMO's have better tuning
thats literally not the case
and dont say ffxiv
I dare you
royal lantern
the only mmo that has better tuning is ff 14
and thats because ff14 has literally the same classes 5x and thats it
royal lantern
red melee dps, red caster dps, red physical dps, blue dps and green dps
grim jay
the only mmo that has better tuning is ff 14
and thats because ff14 has literal...
ffxiv literally balances in a different way because they also have different mechanics on specs
royal lantern
there is no difference bettwen the classes themself
static glacier
the only mmo that has better tuning is ff 14
and thats because ff14 has literal...
the fact the devs for it are actually good at their game and don't release unkillable bosses
goes a long way
royal lantern
ffxiv literally balances in a different way because they also have different mec...
the thing is more like
literally all jobs in a bracket play the same lol
like
static glacier
imagine having playtesters
royal lantern
all melees do the same shit overall
static glacier
who actually make sure its killable
grim jay
there is no big difference bettwen them
visual flare
royal lantern
ye
grim jay
royal lantern
thats the only difference
static glacier
2min burst gameplay on every single dps
they've been homogenising cd timers for most dps in wow too
look at this coming expac and what happened to wl
royal lantern
like, dragoon jumps around, samruai is a wallmart weeb, reaper is a edgelord
but what they actually do is 100% identical and just has a different name lol
royal lantern
they've been homogenising cd timers for most dps in wow too
tbf, thats always the same circle in wow
static glacier
is there a genuine 3 min only cd class now?
royal lantern
we have a spec with specific stuff->people cry cus its to strong/to weak->stuff gets adjusted->people start crying its all the same->they give some specs different stuff->people cry cus is to strong/to weak->repeat
like, thats the endless wow circle lol
grim jay
is there a genuine 3 min only cd class now?
3 min shouldnt ever have existed in the first place
thats like
so stupid
should just be like no cds
static glacier
3 min shouldnt ever have existed in the first place
what's so stupid about having a spec have a longer cd
grim jay
what's so stupid about having a spec have a longer cd
because the spec does shit in the meantime
static glacier
and that's fine
static glacier
it's ok for classes to have different dmg profiles
grim jay
3 min is too long
bitter trout
In your opinion
grim jay
literally the complaint people had with dk
static glacier
I wasn't complaining in sl when boomie had 3m cds
the cds were cracked
and you felt incredibly powerful
then they changed mastery and added pulsar as a talent
voila ur spec is now sustained dps fake cds cus they're up all the time
grim jay
ngl boomie players are satisfied with anything if they finally deal damage
bitter trout
You need to have enough 3min cds in the game tho to make it feel okay
Cus otherwise you end up lusting on bosses at shit times
static glacier
ngl boomie players are satisfied with anything if they finally deal damage
boomie players are a wierd breed, I remember when I mained it in nathria we had people trying to gaslight the wider community that we weren't gonna be broken in sanctum with venthyr xd
I told my guildies do NOT ever believe tettles, boomie is strong and will get stronger. the rest is history
royal lantern
@static glacier i mean, yeha, again its always the same cricle
something is different and people complain cus its too strong compared to other stuff/its too weak and should be changed, so they change it
and after some time we get the "stuff has bigger differences again" changes on a expac launch and it starts again
like
grim jay
You need to have enough 3min cds in the game tho to make it feel okay
thats disregarding 1 min and 1.5 min
bcs they have cds at the same time
and it doesnt change the fact the 3 min spec can afk between the cds
grim jay
unless they have unsatisfying cdr stuff
static glacier
thing is classes can have multiple cds
static glacier
its not like ur playing classic pressing 1 button between cds
for me i'd have rather they doubled down on destro having 3 min cds rather than watering down infernal and making it 2m
instead of making crashing chaos + rain of chaos a chocie node let us have both and make the cd 3 mins
nah, 2m and you pick one
grim jay
https://www.twitch.tv/method/clip/ColorfulCuteKeyboardOSsloth-c1jrBiFcA53dV5sa
probably the most based gromnak take ever
royal lantern
i just love how he says that out of the blue without thinking
boomkin->boomkin rant
static glacier
I remember asking friends what they hated about boomies
for a lot of people it's how dumb they look
static glacier
beyond that the gaslighting
royal lantern
druids are allready a very headache introducing community
boomkins are just peak victim complex all the time lol
SL was crazy with that, literally EVERYWHERE they explained how much balance sucked and was unplayable in a 100% serious way
meanwhile boomkin was stacked 30x in your 20man raid 
static glacier
karma caught up to them this expac
spec has been mediocre the whole time
apart from high keys
rotund oak
boomkins are just peak victim complex all the time lol
100% true and real and based
nagging 24/7
actually toxic
grand trail
peak assa gameplay https://clips.twitch.tv/FancyShinyAlbatrossTF2John-ocSd47eEo5DjcMZ2
last skiff
hearty reef
peak assa gameplay https://clips.twitch.tv/FancyShinyAlbatrossTF2John-ocSd47eEo5...
it's gonne be so fun
orchid pewter
the weakaura potential is insane
balmy condor
It’s crazy how fatebound requires 0 tracking and 0 thought
hearty reef
you either roll good or roll good?
balmy condor
But I just know people will track stuff and piss themselves off
It’s like tracking alacrity on steroids
Tf you gonna do about alacrity uptime? Press your finisher harder?
But people track it and get mad as hell
midnight atlas
people just install a weakaura pack that has everything and they get used to tracking it like that
first thing i do with any wa pack si turn off what i dont need
balmy condor
Yeah that’s the smart way to do it
midnight atlas
this expansion im thinking of making my own. i got some downtime during this prepatch
balmy condor
It’s just funny to me that people will inevitably make themselves mad tracking stuff they don’t have to and can’t control
The irony on that is hilarious
midnight atlas
even if they track it but they don't look at it, it's still clutter on screen
balmy condor
Yeah
spice surge
even if they track it but they don't look at it, it's still clutter on screen <:...
Mfers tracking alacrity, doomblade, bonespike charges and the mutilate buff from deahtstalker
royal lantern
It’s just funny to me that people will inevitably make themselves mad tracking s...
is it bad that i downloaded the KB wa mostly because i like the Sound that plays when it gets parried
balmy condor
Mfers tracking alacrity, doomblade, bonespike charges and the mutilate buff from...
Remember to spread doomblade in aoe
spice surge
Or the new tier set, also a banger to track
balmy condor
spice surge
Remember to spread doomblade in aoe
Ye especially while KB is up
Pass that spatter buff around
royal lantern
like, what more do we need to track in TWW?
deathstalker capstone aaaaaaand.....?
hearty reef
mark?
spice surge
The mark/capstone (should be in the same spot since you wont have both active at the same time)
balmy condor
like, what more do we need to track in TWW?
deathstalker capstone aaaaaaand.......
As of right now, just the deathstalker mark/capstone. I can ALMOST understand tracking clear the witnesses if it were to get buffed again
But aside from that
I’m gonna make some edits to my wa to hide a bunch of stuff tbh
hearty reef
vestal wren
wow playerbase might genuinely be THE worst population I've ever seen for testin...
thats not my point
the problem is, people always make assumption based on early tuning
and if there is one or even two months of tuning changes left, this isn't a good metric
e.g. some outlaw folks ended up extremely dooming because subtlety was good in the very last raid testing
complaining how its always subtlety, how they would uninstall wow if sub is good etc.
this does not lead to meaningful discussions
royal lantern
complaining how its always subtlety, how they would uninstall wow if sub is good...
oh god yes please
static glacier
this does not lead to meaningful discussions
not wrong, though tbh to the OL players their spec wasn't optimal outside of like kurog prenerf
subtle kiln
complaining how its always subtlety, how they would uninstall wow if sub is good...
You need to stay off Guy’s twitter.
grim jay
You need to stay off Guy’s twitter. <:starege:923197272064426075>
guy is probably unironically the most positive outlaw there is
rn
royal lantern
eh, guy is very reasonable and positive almost aleays here
let him vent on twitter
its twitter, thats what it exists for lol
subtle kiln
balance
spice surge
As of right now, just the deathstalker mark/capstone. I can ALMOST understand tr...
It should be technically worth it now with the mastery buff to it right? Since it was like -0.2% before its like +0.2% now
And you know, number go up so you HAVE to implement it
balmy condor
True true
I’m just setting up all my tests in a text editor
Not having things working in sims is pain
spice surge
All that setup just for blizzard to change the talent import strings again next week
Couldnt be me
balmy condor
If they change talent imports again I’m cooked man
I have 35 different talent profiles across 14 tabs of apl tests atm
Would actually just be full toaster bath fork socket
marble hemlock
It’s like tracking alacrity on steroids
i used to track KB stacks in legion
even though it was completely pointless
marble hemlock
are you saying
balmy condor
You’re still cringe
balmy condor
Nah
marble hemlock
balmy condor
Right on queue
marble hemlock
thats gonna go to the printer and then ill put it above my bed so every time i wake up or masturbate i can read how you think im not cringe
balmy condor
I’m feeding you misinformation for your guide buddy your life about to be hell
Get ready to answer questions for months about why you’re suggesting things I’m not
marble hemlock
you and i both know that misinformation in guides barely matters because most people come from google anyway and dont know what is and isnt correct
spice surge
I dont follow the guides, i do my own research
marble hemlock
i just press buttons bud
balmy condor
Misinformation in guides barely matters because people will type “assassination rogue” into twitch and form a parasocial relationship with an m+ streamer that is incapable of doing anything wrong
spice surge
Well, theres atleast 1
balmy condor
I’m hoping m+ remains unfun
If m+ is fun and I start streaming m+
I will be part of the problem
grim jay
I will be part of the problem
but you can show them how they should do it
marble hemlock
idk
balmy condor
Villain arc
grim jay
I will mental boom having to answer “why do you and not because other person”
isnt that kinda what we currently do anyways
marble hemlock
dont think blizzard wants any part of the game to be fun anymore
grim jay
like how many people hit you up with "I saw that guy going double vanish"
marble hemlock
otherwise they wouldnt have picked some of the worst dungeons they ever made to be part of the season1 pool
and also make another bunch of awful dungeons
season wiht mists, dawnbreaker, siege, grim batol and city of threads
grim jay
season wiht mists, dawnbreaker, siege, grim batol and city of threads
I always liked mists
marble hemlock
you wont anymore
spice surge
Theyve also seemingly made any sort of gearing decisions even more pointless
spice surge
By making it all ultra weak
marble hemlock
after they changed the mobs
royal lantern
dont think blizzard wants any part of the game to be fun anymore
why should m+ be fun?
its CoMpEtITIvE
brave gyro
Go play a game if you want "fun"
spice surge
It’s about having more io
You just dont have the sigma grindset
rotund oak
i mean
balmy condor
My m+ score is also my self worth, the higher the score the better I am as a person
grim jay
I mean honestly
grinding some m+ is cheaper than paying someone to hit you
after work
rotund oak
spice surge
@royal lantern Blue silken lining on live gives roughly 1.2k mastery at 525, if you had to guess, how much vers do you think the new tww version of that embellishment gives?
brave gyro
grinding some m+ is cheaper than paying someone to hit you
Depends where you live, some places will do it for free 
grim jay
Depends where you live, some places will do it for free <:PEPELA:925061940873662...
thats not the same
royal lantern
<@346293680883236864> Blue silken lining on live gives roughly 1.2k mastery at 5...
leme gues 400?
spice surge
750, but close
brave gyro
thats not the same
It only counts if you are paying for it?
grim jay
It only counts if you are paying for it?
whats the pleasure in getting something for free
slate crown
whats the pleasure in getting something for free
???????????????????????????? we're rogues???
Pickpocket, hello??
brave gyro
- that crimson vial interaction
royal lantern
You want "how much mastery do i need to heal trought the mechanic????" questions?
spice surge
"Gotta work on my mastery set for delve 13 runs"
grim jay
they should just add 15% dr to crimson vial
balmy condor
You want "how much mastery do i need to heal trought the mechanic????" questions...
Leeching poison, mastery increases poison, leeching poison should work with mastery
rotund oak
dr?
brave gyro
doctor
spice surge
Leeching poison, mastery increases poison, leeching poison should work with mast...
Unironically though
spice surge
They removed our extra leech from it with the leech nerfs
brave gyro
remember when Leeching was 10%, Crimson Vial healed for 30% without iron stomach, and you could opt in for feint (no CD) to heal for 20% of your HP... 
balmy condor
Remember dense concoction
slim hamlet
Remember when recup worked
spice surge
Remember when recup worked
I dont
brave gyro
Remember dense concoction
ramping ♿
slim hamlet
Me neither
subtle kiln
Remember Kevin
oblique jackal
Weird, the SBS build is way better in M+
normal mist
better as in "feels better" or "does better dmg" ?
because the normal bleed build is supposed to pull better overalls iirc
oblique jackal
Per sims, better dmg
i def don't think it feels good. Just did a +12 Bracken
felt so weeird
slim hamlet
I can't imagine SBS not feeling good in aoe
balmy condor
Sbs feeling bad in m+ is a new one
normal mist
Sbs feeling bad in m+ is a new one
I might be wrong but didn't the normal bleed build pull better sims than SBS build?
spice surge
Man i just hate how it fills up all my combo points after my first rupture
And lets me rupture again
balmy condor
I might be wrong but didn't the normal bleed build pull better sims than SBS bui...
Idk about prepatch numbers at all
All the prepatch theorycrafting is just beta theorycrafting without the hero talents basically
normal mist
Okay okay, thanks, was under the impressions bleeds build > SBS build in m+. i can't recall where i got that idea from
balmy condor
Sbs might sim lower because doomblade stinks
But the sbs reset
Speed up your opener
So there’s value there in lower keys
normal mist
🤝
vestal wren
Sbs feeling bad in m+ is a new one
also surprising
grand trail
everyone jumped on sbs wagon recently
static glacier
it smoothes out the natural imbalance that happens within IC windows
since it used to be 2x gar > 1 rup
now you can go 2x gar 2x rup
coral arrow
do we always use ambush when proc?
subtle kiln
it smoothes out the natural imbalance that happens within IC windows
but where does double vanish fit into it? 
slim hamlet
but where does double vanish fit into it? <:wowreally:880389092641243186>
That only works on the dragon
balmy condor
That only works on the dragon
The dragon deez nuts
balmy condor
I uno reversed it
slim hamlet
That was so free
balmy condor
Get bent and buttered
indigo mulch
mhmmm butter.
brazen zodiac
Get bent and buttered
🥺
slim hamlet
that's crazy
balmy condor
What if deadly poison was called freak poison
normal mist
Ship it
subtle kiln
I swear I would've had him
You wouldn’t have
slim hamlet
What if deadly poison was called freak poison
And instead of being deadly it oiled up the enemies
slim hamlet
You wouldn’t have
subtle kiln
vestal wren
What if deadly poison was called freak poison
what would it do
give enemies a 5% chance on every hit to hit themselves?
balmy condor
Would make the bosses super freaky
spice spire
Would make the bosses super freaky
Hell yeah
slim hamlet
What does bosses being freaky entail?
spice spire
Suckin toes
balmy condor
Hell yeah
hollow river
Get bent and buttered
me next
balmy condor
War within spider boss oiled up throwin it back
slim hamlet
Suckin toes
Not even a second thought
slim hamlet
Just wrote it and shipped it
slim hamlet
War within spider boss oiled up throwin it back
vestal wren
War within spider boss oiled up throwin it back
i did not see any spiders in war within so far
hollow river
fuu only sees crabs
vestal wren
but there are a lot of 🦀
slim hamlet
Does the crab also have a mega dumptruck?
vestal wren
i would turn it on, it has some rly fun changes
e.g. senarth has only 4 legs with the filter
balmy condor
fuu only sees crabs
Fuu sees crabs
I have crabs
indigo mulch
balmy condor
https://tenor.com/view/rachnera-monster-musume-spider-woman-spider-girl-arachne-...
Bis anime
slim hamlet
Fuu sees crabs
I have crabs
<:chad:1241449805549404193>
"we are not the same" ahh sentence
balmy condor
"we are not the same" ahh sentence
No ones balls itch as much as mine
I’m #1 at itchy balls
In the world
balmy condor
which one is that from
Monster musume
slim hamlet
That has to be one of the most crazy things to write
vestal wren
which one is that from
the name of the anime is most of the time in the link name
spice spire
Monster musume
Seek help bestie
slim hamlet
Do you guys think that "brainrot" will ever be a real thing you can get diagnosed with?
hollow river
Monster musume
oh it's not on CR no wonder idk it
brazen zodiac
<a:PU_peepoHappyWave:531794954675159040>
👋 : D
static glacier
but where does double vanish fit into it? <:wowreally:880389092641243186>
you press vanish to the character creation screen then choose the cyan class
lone parrot
Do you guys think that "brainrot" will ever be a real thing you can get diagnose...
yeah BM hunters
violet jackal
which one is that from
slim hamlet
That makes sense
hollow river
<a:pandawave:659480997783666726>
i feel like it's been forever since i've seen some of these names
violet jackal
Same
No tricks was my first random rogue whisper
Inmem offered me a bite of their sandwich outside of court stars during the ring farm
Ah the memories
brazen zodiac
<a:ghostwave:1207598461793603615>
👋 : D !
hollow river
didn't i randomly run into you at the oribos AH back when i was on Arthas or something
hollow river
is it known bug that garrote give 5 CP during subterfuge?
we ignore those (for legal reasons this is a joke)
slim hamlet
I feel like that was a bug in 10.2 ptr too
grand trail
yeah they fixed it kinda fast back than
balmy condor
oh it's not on CR no wonder idk it
What, I watched it through cr
slim hamlet
double vanish build
balmy condor
Did they take it down
violet jackal
didn't i randomly run into you at the oribos AH back when i was on Arthas or som...
Probably I ran into a lot when we were on the same realm
There was 2 other rogues I started saluting whenever I saw them but I believe they are no longer rogues
grand trail
yeah double vanish with the sub bug seems good
grand trail
er is trash path anayway
balmy condor
2 extra cp isn’t worth 4.5% lmao
violet jackal
Our burst window got me feeling like I’m playing the piano
hollow river
Did they take it down
yeah they've taken a lot of stuff down recently tbh
slim hamlet
2 extra cp isn’t worth 4.5% lmao
no but it can be like 2 extra cp like 3 times you know
hollow river
2 extra cp isn’t worth 4.5% lmao
i think it's also doing way more dam than it should be
slim hamlet
so thats like a whole finisher
hollow river
during subt
rotund oak
2 extra cp isn’t worth 4.5% lmao
Ehh,my man
grand trail
and extra vanish on top
hollow river
wasn't it ticking for like 260k instead of 60k @grand trail
royal lantern
what did i miss 
slim hamlet
what did i miss <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
double vanish confirmed. Source: Trust me bro
rotund oak
just realized ur raid ST and m+ bleeds have both blackjack and rushed set up
is there are reason to use them for m+?
rotund oak
why not tricks and shadowrunner
slim hamlet
I need that 1gcd worth of 20% movement speed
rotund oak
slim hamlet
Oh god
balmy condor
Tricks is a pointless button
slim hamlet
I remember during DF beta I think where you made a test build that didn't have cloak Whispyr
grand trail
true rather wait 10sec for tank to gather 🙂
rotund oak
u can tricks pull though
slim hamlet
And everyone just copy pasted and went into it with no cloak
balmy condor
Pog
rotund oak
and lets say tricks is useless
slim hamlet
slim hamlet
You know you don't have to copy paste wowhead right?
hollow river
shouldn't making a mob do 30% less dmg be like, pretty powerful?
grand trail
i dont play ER with DS anyway so i will this double vanish try
balmy condor
do we even cheap in m+
You don’t press kidney?