assassination

[royal lantern]

man, why do people care how many button somebody presses for dmg

play ret then

[raven egret]

There are others?

[normal mist]

I've heard stories

[solar eagle]

It snot only that, its the mental gymnastic you do on some classes vs others for what results

[royal lantern]

and realise that you are 1 in 5000million ret paladins now and get no spot in stuff

[raven egret]

True enough, I do think more complex should generally be more rewarding when done right but that's not the world we live in so, w/e

[solar eagle]

Sad but true

[solar eagle]

Thats right

and one fo the reason I drop it, way way way too much inflation

[royal lantern]

because thats a horrible thing and would just result in the "complex" specs beeing the ONLY stuff that gets played???

[normal mist]

Want a good argument to play rogue?

[solar eagle]

Not if ppl are half a brain or dont want to work their neurons

Like me

[normal mist]

Any pleb can play ret

[royal lantern]

you can open 70% of cages in quests that nees you to collect keys with lockpicking

[solar eagle]

ofc

[runic prairie]

yellow gold is the best class color

[raven egret]

It wasn't a hot take, its just near impossible for us to be meta in m+ comparatively due to the amount of conditions we got to get our full DMG compared to ret, all I was saying

[solar eagle]

if I were to doom one class, is warrior, my lad never gets any spot in any content

[normal mist]

It's easier to be impressed at a good rogue than it is to a good ret

[solar eagle]

oh yes 3v3

[royal lantern]

what

[raven egret]

This

[royal lantern]

where is warrior "no spot in any content"

[solar eagle]

Im outdated 10.2 so far never brought my fury anywhere in the high key scene

[royal lantern]

what the fuck are ylu guys playing

wow

high keys in meme+

its meme+

[solar eagle]

Idk its what im playing

never thought fury brought anything useful in

[raven egret]

I mean we ain't talking about +2s that's for sure 😂

[royal lantern]

everything that is not the "top 5 best specs" in that 5man content is "unplayable bad" there

[normal mist]

Even if it wasn't meme season, I only do content while there are rewards to get

[royal lantern]

[normal mist]

Aka portals

Then bye bye

[solar eagle]

Well yeah kinda but frustrating as hell, why would you be benched from a content you wanna do if you like "not a meta class" a lot ?

[royal lantern]

like, 95% of specs in the game are "never gets a spot" in "high level shit+"

thats how the mode works

endless scaling will be doing that

[solar eagle]

I hope it will be fixed for TWW

[royal lantern]

only bring the 5strongest options of the patch

[solar eagle]

not saying all spec should be top 5

[midnight mist]

thats so wrong tho

[solar eagle]

but there is a middle ground

[midnight mist]

you didnt play s1/start of s2

[solar eagle]

has to be

[midnight mist]

maybe

[royal lantern]

in community eyes, it is

ofc not in reality

[midnight mist]

no

there is a difference with s3/s4 meta

and s1

and its not about community perception

its about tuning lol

[orchid pewter]

Aug is the fire nation, and outlaw the avatar

Saviour of all melee specs

[royal lantern]

shut up yathzee pirate

[raven egret]

How's acro doing?

[royal lantern]

[orchid pewter]

[solar eagle]

Aug was the biggest mistake in this game

absolutely destroyed the metas

[orchid pewter]

Yea

[midnight mist]

like this is s1 df

this is s4

[orchid pewter]

[solar eagle]

also devaluing devoker

[midnight mist]

when things are more tightly tuned you have more things to bring

[orchid pewter]

And the other spec

[solar eagle]

Augvoker is an invite simulator in PUGS

you have the legitimacy of a tank

They should open a new dps spot to be honest

4 / 1 / 1 is just fine

[royal lantern]

and thats why "m+ players" should not talk

because stuff like that comes out

[solar eagle]

M+ is the content

tell me what besides mythic raiding is endgame pve

freacking delves

?

M+ is tone of the reason WoW is such an endgame banger

[royal lantern]

"lets revamp every single dungeon in the game and change the entire dynamic of groups lol?????"

[solar eagle]

no other MMO do that sort of thing to hook endgame players

[royal lantern]

yeha sure buddy

and i want 20million from blizz

thats the more logical thing

[solar eagle]

point made

[solar eagle]

Dont need to

[royal lantern]

like, do people realise what a GIGANTIC change 6man dungeons would be

• the fact that "support" is a VERY unpopular role

[solar eagle]

Oh yeah like introducing flex raiding in siege of orgrimmar was soooo working ?

when before it was unthinkable to tune every raid to 21 22 23 people and less

[royal lantern]

and aug moostly sees so much play becaus its free invites into everything even if you play bad

[solar eagle]

What I implied yea

[royal lantern]

you think there will be a 1 tank/healer/"support" for every 3 dps in the game?

[solar eagle]

There is, but for 2 dps instead

[royal lantern]

cool, so you now told 33% of the biggest part of the playerbase "suck it up loser lol"

very smart move with no bad consequenses

👍

[solar eagle]

I ? No. Blizzard said that

when they released the spec

I of all people wanted all but this to happen lol dont blame me

[royal lantern]

aug is everywhere because its fucking broken numberwise and utility wise

numbers are numbers

utility allready gets a nerf

and hopefully even more with time

[solar eagle]

number is one thing, augvoker is something else lol, much more impactful

[royal lantern]

outside of that its a 100% normal dps lol

like

people jerk the word "support" so hard of, when thats not even a role

[solar eagle]

it is a role on its own

[royal lantern]

it isnt wtf

[solar eagle]

technically no

[royal lantern]

its a dps spec

lol

[solar eagle]

yes

But its core relies on supporting others

[royal lantern]

it takes a dps spot, does dmg for the group in a slightly different way, thats it

[solar eagle]

like saying rogue is an harrassing role in pvp

[royal lantern]

is priest 20% a "support class" because Pi exists?

or shaman because if Windfury?

[solar eagle]

No, PI is nowhere near the league of augvokers

augvokers just hit the word " support " differently

its a dps spec techically

but deep down its more

[royal lantern]

It's a DPS in disguise and always has been

It's really not a fundamentally different role to DPS and never should've been talked about that way

No other game I can think of uses the word "support" to describe "character based around maximising damage but that does so by buffing allies"

like, it literally takes a frking DPS spot

[solar eagle]

I love M+ content, I think it's the best thing that happened to this game, and the meta shouldn't be that painful to watch

[solar eagle]

Well GW2 does that

but there is no trinity

so there is that

you have proper support roles

Idk, they just tried to do something entirely different with augvokers

not just a reskinned devoker

[balmy condor]

remember guys, double vanish is good

right

surely

right

[solar eagle]

not it sucks ass lol, bring back dance

[lone parrot]

double vanish my goat

[royal lantern]

-4.......?

[royal lantern]

they are different in gw2 lol

again

[balmy condor]

I don't get the question

[vestal wren]

noted

[balmy condor]

but I saw streamer playing it

[solar eagle]

arent you sub specialized ? 👀

[midnight mist]

ho was also 5 % behind in m+ and people still played it tbf

[royal lantern]

augvoker plays and acts like a 100% normal dps, your maingoal is maximizing dmg

the supports you talk about in gw are different because its just "i have a couple group buffs/debuffsi keep running"

[solar eagle]

Guy : outlaw - fuu : sub and Whispyr : sin

[lone parrot]

zerocool used it, opinion disregarded

[solar eagle]

the trinity

[royal lantern]

how much - is it

[normal mist]

Tbf it was extremely enjoyable to play

[vestal wren]

it is dead on subtlety too
IF you don't take shadowdust

[midnight mist]

and that was just cuase some liked ho more

here i can see wanting more utility with double vanish i guess

[solar eagle]

Well yeah but I mean it bolsters other dps, as you can see in Details it doesnt deal any proper number, because it relies on buffing others

[vestal wren]

and subtlety gameplay might become a bit weird in tww

[normal mist]

The only problem is that, as you know, they don't have separate CDs,

[balmy condor]

yeh well, such things happen in the m+ community

step 1 - bitch about damage and how tight dps checks are and the sims have to be accurate and this build is 0.2% better than that build
step 2 - ignore step 1 and play whatever you want anyway because feelcraft

[solar eagle]

Im not an augvoker expert so might talkk out of my butt but

[bitter trout]

Imagine liking brainrot

[solar eagle]

thats what I understood

[vestal wren]

because of how much power is in our cooldowns due to hero talents

[lone parrot]

your facts are clouding my judgement

[solar eagle]

and on and on

[balmy condor]

wenn man die augen auf macht can man besser lesen

[midnight mist]

there is only one real build

[bitter trout]

Yup

[solar eagle]

Kir is a drink for a start, a french drink

[bitter trout]

And it involves no ambush

[solar eagle]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kir_(cocktail)

[midnight mist]

wtf

[bitter trout]

That just took up

My whole phone screen

[normal mist]

Same xD

[midnight mist]

make sense why kir is the better build

[solar eagle]

Its tasty

[midnight mist]

its french

[solar eagle]

I removed the attachment

[royal lantern]

ist ultra reingezoomt bei mir

discord mobile spaß

[midnight mist]

real

[bitter trout]

[solar eagle]

But OL is still divided between HO vs KIR

[balmy condor]

4.5

[midnight mist]

having multiple viable builds is cool

we are very lucky

[balmy condor]

I would like less builds yes thank you

[bitter trout]

Not when one is literal brainrot tho

[solar eagle]

Ol still has way too many stuff happening HO or KIR

Imo

[bitter trout]

The other viable build has killing spree

[midnight mist]

its fine as long as i dont have to play it

[balmy condor]

m+ builds on assa is nearing 30-40

[hardy dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/stonks-meme-gif-16107418

[midnight mist]

ok but its not actual builds, its changing one random useless talents here and there

or

[hardy dagger]

Just try em all

[bitter trout]

Yours are more dungeon specific builds tho right

[balmy condor]

I mean not "useless", they're pretty impactful

[bitter trout]

Which is cool

[orchid pewter]

Its either cleave or ct no?

[balmy condor]

1 shiv, 2 shiv, cleave, hybrid, bleed, cb vs er

amp, bone spike

[bitter trout]

Bone spike

Seems awkward to take

Idk it’s position one the tree seems a bit strange

[normal mist]

But honestly feels good to have the cps back after a rup

[midnight mist]

well sbs is still an aoe talent but gatted behind a st talent i guess

always felt it was a little weird but oh well

[static glacier]

@balmy condor is it wurf pooling amp poison for darkest night envs

[balmy condor]

no

you'd sit there with no mark uptime

big L

[static glacier]

was thinking more you'd consider pooling til near energy cap if it'd get you am

amp

then I guess you'd overcap energy

[balmy condor]

well then you'd be both in sanguine, lose envenom uptime probably, and also lose mark uptime

so 3x big L

[bitter trout]

[static glacier]

its just so cooked that sanguine is bad to stay high energy for

https://tenor.com/view/muppetwiki-muppet-wiki-muppet-muppets-sesame-street-gif-6440362422455530795

[royal lantern]

the entire talent is a bit weird

cus if you make it stronger + buff bleeds, it could suddenly grow out of controll in aoe situations

[static glacier]

its nice during dm mainly

since that's when you're gonna massively overflow energy gen

[rotund oak]

yo man,did u manage to generate the spatter bug kush found?

[balmy condor]

no

no one can

[rotund oak]

same

[balmy condor]

not even kush

[rotund oak]

[balmy condor]

random fucking bug

[rotund oak]

yup

[fathom minnow]

guys, can someone help me with builds for assa to test ST and M+? on TWW beta
cant find anything in pinned(

[spice surge]

Theyre in the pins, or in the guides on wowhead/icy veins

[fathom minnow]

for tww beta or pre-patch?

[spice surge]

Theres no difference

[balmy condor]

it's the same trees

[fathom minnow]

and what about hero talents?

[balmy condor]

there's 2 available

pick one of them

[rotund oak]

fatebound for passive dmg/coinflippin

deathstalker for a minor frustration when the mark falls to random stuff

[royal lantern]

deathstalker if you hate yourself and fun

[balmy condor]

deathstalker is good when it works

it's just when it doesn't work

that's the issue

[bitter trout]

We're talking about rogue tho

[balmy condor]

and the design of stuff isn't great

[rotund oak]

ppl love hatin' deathstalker man

[bitter trout]

nothing ever works as intended for rogue

[balmy condor]

like mut damage cringe

fok maybe in single target is cringe

auto damage is cringe

[rotund oak]

[balmy condor]

and then all the edge cases where your mark or capstone can drop

big cringe

[static glacier]

I still don't get why capstone can't be a temporary buff that always falls off or a really big coin hit

[rotund oak]

its a dmg or an agility buff

[static glacier]

yes but the agility buff is what I have beef with

[rotund oak]

ah ye

its 7%

[static glacier]

not even the amount

it's the fact that its one of these turbocringe, unlovable maintenance garbage piece of shit trash ugly hated disgusting

things that if they're up ur like ok cool, now i do normal dps

and when it falls ur annoyed

I fail to see where the fun is, all I see is opportunities for frustration

[rotund oak]

i think the buff duration is smol

it should be something like

[balmy condor]

I mean by that logic shouldn't every buff be 100% uptime

[rotund oak]

20-25sec

[static glacier]

nah

[rotund oak]

fatefull ending agil buff

[static glacier]

i never feel "bad" that shiv isnt up for example

[rotund oak]

now i wanna see the actual uptime

[static glacier]

or envenom

[rotund oak]

[static glacier]

we have direct control

[balmy condor]

I had like 30ish% uptime in my keys yesterday

[static glacier]

over those

[balmy condor]

but we were going pretty slow

[rotund oak]

thats cool man

[grim jay]

I wish stat procs would be removed as a whole

[rotund oak]

30% aint bad

[slim hamlet]

30% sounds kinda doodoo unless forced down time

[royal lantern]

i wish i had a pet gator

[static glacier]

temporary power is fine, permanent power is fine. this almost permanent but not really but you can't do shit about it bc it's out of your hands business

is just mad annoying

[subtle kiln]

Sv hunter

[grim jay]

How about we remove stat procs and I buy you a pet gator?

[slim hamlet]

I wonder what the reason is to not just have the buff for longer out of combat

[subtle kiln]

no rogue pets after Kevin. Rip Kevin.

[rotund oak]

im skeptical but ye,if that resembles in combat buff uptime its pretty solid

[static glacier]

because we have to suffer

[rotund oak]

coz if u trigger it and u run out of combat its useless

[slim hamlet]

Yea I forgor mb

[static glacier]

legit if they made the capstone not annoying i'd have 0 complaints about fatebound

[slim hamlet]

The only reason I hope deathstalker is better in m+ is because of that

[grim jay]

They are really cheap as babys, thats why I made the offer

[slim hamlet]

Same

[static glacier]

couldn't just be every 7th finisher flips 3 coins in a row or something

nah

has to be tilt inducing maintenance that relies on the tank 🙂

[rotund oak]

i wouldnt mind fatebound charging fateful ending to a singular massive hit or aoe hit

depended the flip

agil buff is idk

gief more passive dmg procs

[static glacier]

the thing is it's not even THAT strong

but it's just strong enough that it matters and is annoying

[rotund oak]

dw fam,deathstalker mark getting reworked

[grim jay]

It doesnt need a rework

Just some qol

[rotund oak]

could work as well

but make it apply simplier

and also DN make it simplier

we cant just wait

its just too slow for pve

[static glacier]

lowkey if they just make it refund on targets turning friendly, going away but not dying

its ok

[rotund oak]

[grim jay]

I can see them being like "just dont use DN if you are about to swap targets"

[royal lantern]

"friction"

"skill Expression"

[grim jay]

"see, thats why DN only works at max Cp, can still finish lower"

[peak jolt]

what talent build would i be going on the beta for testing out assa ?`

[normal mist]

Deeznutz

[normal mist]

It's in the pins

[peak jolt]

oke

[normal mist]

Or was

[peak jolt]

ye only the prepatch builds is ther ?

[normal mist]

But it's basically the same as it is now in pre patch

[peak jolt]

those the same i sould go for tww ?

oke

[normal mist]

Yeah

[peak jolt]

wich would i go as deathstalker ? just anyone of em ?

[normal mist]

I can't be certain of the answer because I'm on the phone until later today, hopefully Whispyr shows up

[rotund oak]

deathstalker is either assassination or subtetly

if u want a specific build there are couple on wowhead,they are the same as prepatch

[rotund oak]

🫶

[balmy condor]

All the talents work with either one of the hero talents

Fatebound and deathstalker both buff envenom, and add caustic damage

Deathstalker a bit more envenom, fatebound from the coin

So there’s no real shift in damage profile or talent choices

[peak jolt]

oke ty

[fallen shore]

hi guys

i need a nameplate for poisons

[slate crown]

!wa I am not sure what you mean by that exactly, but maybe one of these Plater profiles will help you.

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[graceful isle]

Hi all - long time rogue player returning after a break. I've been looking at a few tier-list vids (I know its still early days!) but rogue seems to be being largely ignored. Damage looks ok in Amirdrassil on Warcraftlogs. Am I missing something wrong? Things don't look that bad?

[normal mist]

You just answered your own question

[drifting cloud]

we're at the end of a "meme" patch, how balance is now doesnt really mean anything to how it will be in a month

but yeah after getting buffed like 4 times last 2 weeks its looking better

[normal mist]

"I know it's still early days" exactly this

Buff will eventually come, as they have been

[balmy condor]

All true statements

Largely ignored, damage okay

[graceful isle]

Thank you for the quick replies - I shall give it a whirl and see how it feels...

[jolly heath]

I was practicing at dummy and I keep wondering why the hell my dps is much lower than simc, turn out prepatch simc is not supported lmao

[balmy condor]

I mean it is

Might not be giga optimized but it’s totally functional

[jolly heath]

yeah i checked breakdown, grieftorch in simc did 6m while in live I only did 1.5m. DPS profile is ok, it's just number, I was missing 50k dps from 5 minutes st patchwerk

[balmy condor]

Sounds like your missing casts

[jolly heath]

I checked counts, pretty similar

[balmy condor]

Weird

You play reboot?

[jolly heath]

you mean maplestory?

[static glacier]

ye

whispyr is some maplestory andy

[jolly heath]

yeah lol I do, but stopped when I switched to wow

I only start playing wow since covid

[balmy condor]

I see

[slim hamlet]

He is not just "some andy" he is THE andy

[jolly heath]

I bet he is thief main in maple

[slim hamlet]

Were anyone able to figure out the caustic spatter bug?

[static glacier]

we figured out that we can't recreate it

[slim hamlet]

Kinda want to buy beta just to sit and hit shit 2 trillion times like in 10.2

[slim hamlet]

Huge

What is this? Not beta right

[balmy condor]

275 dawn warrior, 260 bucc, 260 lumi, 260 night walker, 256 marksman

one of everything

[balmy condor]

PTR is indeed not damage

[slim hamlet]

Is it healing then?

[subtle kiln]

Augmenting

[subtle kiln]

are you using a plater import?

[slim hamlet]

I have definitely done that before

[subtle kiln]

I'm sure someone does it, but I haven't seen poison on nameplates via a WA in ages

[fallen shore]

yea

i mean

im copying from wago

to here

[spice surge]

Well you cant import plater things into WA

Plater is its own addon

[subtle kiln]

Wago has like 5 different addons it supports. Have to watch what you are importing.

[fallen shore]

wich one i get

for plater

then

[subtle kiln]

Whatever you like

[spice surge]

You import it into plater if you want to change something with plater

[subtle kiln]

It’s your ui

[fallen shore]

ok

how do i open the plater panel

to import my plater

[subtle kiln]

type /plater. Lol

[fallen shore]

doesnt work

/plater

[subtle kiln]

Install the addon.

[fallen shore]

i have the addon

[subtle kiln]

Did you just install it?

[fallen shore]

yea

[subtle kiln]

Reload

Exit and restart.

[sacred tinsel]

Its weird that it shows in the addon menu but typing /plater doesnt do anything

[fallen shore]

now it works

[subtle kiln]

Plater needs reloads.

[sacred tinsel]

more plates more reloads

[rotund oak]

not even a dual blade

[balmy condor]

my dual blade is 222 I think

[runic prairie]

ayy maple

maple classes > wow classes thematically

[slim hamlet]

idk man the pirate gambling addicted drunk is a pretty cool class fantasy if you ask me

[balmy condor]

true and real and based

[grim jay]

Most games you mean

[runic prairie]

lmao yeah

idk why but wow class fantasy sucks so hard

probably lack of vfx

[grim jay]

The male and female class counterparts in asian games have more different effects than wow classes overall

[runic prairie]

asian mmos go ham with vfx

wow lacks too much that most buttons we press feel useless

like SnD, SoD, Shadowblades, flag

all feel like we didnt press anything

[dull cloak]

so you're big on flashy visuals?

[grim jay]

Good and distinct =/= flashy

[runic prairie]

i dont need flashy stuff

just gimme some more juice and impact when activating shit

[grim jay]

There are so many subtle things you could add even

That go with the spec fantasy

[dull cloak]

what does impact mean tho, like sound effect? screen shake?

[grim jay]

Particles

[dull cloak]

how cooked would it be if you pressed a major skill and your camera zooms in for like a 1 second cutscene like animation on your character

I know some asian action mmos does that

[grim jay]

I know none

And im glad I dont

For wow you could keep the basic animation, just add some particles that fit the skill and it would already be an improvement. Even the deathstalker animation is an improvement tbf

[runic prairie]

eg from maple

activates a small buff

you see a quick animation

[normal mist]

Another big problem for wow is that everything happens in a milisecond. Besides stuff like chaos bolt that have a travel time and you can see the impact of it

Something ff14 does really well due to the big gcd between weapon skills

[jolly heath]

I would play the shit out of classic maple if they ever gonna release it

lol

[grim jay]

Wow could do something equal, but they dont tend to even use the gcd duration

[runic prairie]

wow you can have a quick particle effect when you use SnD for example

[slim hamlet]

have you tried elemental shaman?

[runic prairie]

i have not

[slim hamlet]

That spec feels so fucking good even if you're doing like 3 dmg

specially in dungeons

[runic prairie]

👀 maybe i should try then

[grim jay]

Enhancer didnt feel bad either

[slim hamlet]

Stormkeeper overloading in aoe with chain lightning

[normal mist]

True and real

[slim hamlet]

actual orgasm

[normal mist]

And in ST, all the lava bursts

Flying and melting (or not) bosses

[slim hamlet]

Only played it in 10.1 so didn't play when it became full lava burst gaming

I did see some aoe with the primordial wave stuff

20 lava bursts

[runic prairie]

they def should copy wow with that strat

everyone nostalgic for it

[wicked vapor]

You think you would but you won’t, classic maple exp rates were a slog lol

[slim hamlet]

Isn't that legit the exact same thing people said about classic wow

[grim jay]

Well you always have quite some people playing regardless

But there also are people that dont wanna set a foot into classic

(hello, its me)

[open sail]

Sup, im new to rogue playing assassination. Even if we are using Indiscrimination Carnage do you guys spread your garrote and rupture and do you cleave from main target ?

[normal mist]

Once the first dots start falling down, ofc

[slim hamlet]

^ what do you mean cleave from main target?

With Caustic spatter?

[open sail]

with Indiscrimination Carnage lets say im pulling in aoe

I open on 1 target should i put all my garrote on the same target or spread it across

[slim hamlet]

Spread it

Only on 4 or 5 targets is it fine to use on the same target, as it will automatically spread to all. If there are more you're just wasting 1 garrote/rupture if you use it on a target that already has it

[open sail]

alright thx!

[desert cove]

so last night was my first night on sin in raid, and ofc dummy practice only gets you so far. but how the fuck do you get used to paying attention to debuff timers on a fight like sarkareth

I'm used to going swish swoosh and making adaptations on the fly Q_Q

also sark is terrible rn b/c you push the fight so fast it fucks all of the timers in the fight

I did get a purple parse on tindral tho so I was pretty happy about that

[spice spire]

Plater frankly helps a ton

Also with a metric fuck ton of mobility it helps with timers on everything. Granted, pushing timers at weird intervals just fucks with KB windows altogether

[rotund oak]

this is factual,they are also alot more diversified

u can pick alot of stuff to cook

[blissful cosmos]

Rogue feels like really low dps

Feelsbadman

[rotund oak]

beta?

live?

[blissful cosmos]

Live

[rotund oak]

it doesnt matter then

[blissful cosmos]

I mean are they even that good in beta not really compared to some other classes

[rotund oak]

u would be surprised

[blissful cosmos]

Outlaw seems nobody will ever play it again

[rotund oak]

outlaw is gone,thats true

[blissful cosmos]

Hopefully blizzard can make it not suck that bad

[rotund oak]

idk what to say

[spice surge]

Except they are

[rotund oak]

like outlaw lost dance,lost acro,goes into KS eveyr 20sec

without immunities

and animationlock

its a suicidal spec

no one likes dying

[blissful cosmos]

It seems like blizzard only want frost dk to be good for melee

[rotund oak]

ye rogues

are jsut as good

ferals as well

[blissful cosmos]

Are they don’t seem like it

[rotund oak]

fury warriors

[blissful cosmos]

Yea fury is broke

And so is frost dk

[rotund oak]

then we found that frost isnt the only one blizzard wants to be good

dont let grief or frustration take the best of you friend

its beta and prepatch,game is under development

[blissful cosmos]

That’s true but I mean frost dk even got buffs for no reason

Recently

[rotund oak]

frost dk was down bad in ST

is was very good in cleave

UH is the thing for both

[blissful cosmos]

Yea I got hope tho rogues will get better

I know assa ain’t that bad in beta

[rotund oak]

we are getting better already.yeah it feels nice in beta

there are issues but its getting there

[blissful cosmos]

Just feels like our boss damage ain’t that good am I right?

[desert cove]

both sin and sub are feeling fine on beta, just have bugfixes needed and then we're chilling

[rotund oak]

yup

[desert cove]

just pretend outlaw doesn't exist

[blissful cosmos]

I know assa can do good aoe

[desert cove]

[rotund oak]

no our ST dmg is fine now

and sub prolly does better in aoe

[blissful cosmos]

That’s good

[rotund oak]

sub literally has flurry

its called nimble flurry

cleave 7 targets

sub never had cleave

now it has that,so imagine what sub will look like

in any aoe scenario

[blissful cosmos]

So you don’t black powder you just single target and cleave?

[rotund oak]

..

[rain mortar]

I think our damage with the most recent buffs is going to be middle of the pack fine.

[rotund oak]

u need to test it urself,its irrelevant even if i try to explain how it works

[blissful cosmos]

Alright yea it’s just weird for rogues not to be top boss damage as a pure dps class

[rotund oak]

mage is pure dps class as well

hunter the same

lock the same

idk man

[blissful cosmos]

lol

Well mages are always good somehow

Meta for life they are

[stark musk]

Well it's Blizzard, the company name shouts MAGES

[rotund oak]

with that i can agree

[stark musk]

Of course they gonna make mages good

[rotund oak]

mage is just the best class in game

hands down

no questions asked

[stark musk]

You can still pull out an amazing damage with rogue though

[blissful cosmos]

I believe

[stark musk]

I need energy buff for rogue

[blissful cosmos]

yea energy does feels not so good

[stark musk]

So I can push damage without thinking about energy, like RET Pala not using mana in his dps skills

[blissful cosmos]

I think they needed to add more then 1 energy to venomous wounds

[rotund oak]

or hunter not thinking for focus

they just press stuff all the time

[blissful cosmos]

When playing death stalker and having to do full combo point evenoms it makes energy feel worse

[rotund oak]

yeah its cringe

its even more cringe when the mark falls off due to random stuff like intermissions

and u cant refresh if there is no vanish

[blissful cosmos]

Yea I honestly do want to play it

[rotund oak]

so u just cant interact with ur hero tree

[blissful cosmos]

Don’t

They do just let us have a buffed evenom without having to use it at full combo points

To make it easier on the energy

[fallen shore]

my set as assa is so bad in m+

anyone have any log i can look at

[stark musk]

Give us more Thistle Tea\

To work with energy more and I am gucci

[rotund oak]

in all honesty i can understand why ppl feel starvation energy wise

we do have 1 tea charge to press between our windows since it has 3 charges

but the pooling is a thing

ild respect anyone who would pick the node to get some energy from poisons tbh

[balmy condor]

I think honestly the main problem with energy is that pooling isn’t a clear enough mechanic to the spec

Like amirdrassil the tier was so strong that chaining was pretty easy to understand as a concept

But now that it’s gone there’s kind of a lack of clarity

But also just let the spec be slow please god there’s nothing slow in melee anymore everyone has bitched so long until every resource has become pointless and dead

Leave energy alone man

[subtle kiln]

If you need to spam more key presses look at sub.

Assa doesn’t need nor should it have insane APM

if you’re really looking for breaking your keeb play outlul

[spice surge]

Sub has noticeably more waiting time than assa, but the cooldown windows have way more off-gcd stuff so APM is a bit higher

[subtle kiln]

which is

[sudden swan]

Most of the specs people point to as not being resource bound are instead cooldown bound

[native quartz]

Any suggestions for an assassination rogue steamer on twitch?

[grim jay]

thats cooked

balancing around "pure dps class" shouldnt ever be a thing

[grim jay]

just that ret is a melee

and mana is for casters

not close to comparable

to energy

[stark musk]

Well yeah of course

It's just that RET can spam his combos and all

Without being punished for it

Like rogue is

[grim jay]

yeah because he is intended to be played that way

and rogue isnt

[haughty flicker]

why is it RET

and not just ret

[grim jay]

except outlaw maybe

[stark musk]

That's the issue here, Rogue is full dps class, while ret isn't

And ret still can outdps rogue

[grim jay]

because guess what

balancing around that

is pretty stupid

[blissful cosmos]

I dont know man rogues are meant to be top dps cause there a assain sent to kill a boss as a pure dps class imo

[balmy condor]

That’s… healthy?

What

[grim jay]

bro what

[haughty flicker]

i never understood why people think that every pure dps spec should out dps any class that isnt pure dps

why should ret/shadow/etc not be allowed to do damage

just because their class can heal

[heady yarrow]

because they have flash heal, obviously

[blissful cosmos]

How you going to be a assain but do low dps doesn’t make sense

[native quartz]

I feel like there's multiple classes that can just spam their abilities without punishment

[grim jay]

good that we dont do low dps and that classes arent balanced around their fantasy. if that was the case, rogue would literally be one of the weakest classes

[grim jay]

because they are designed that way. look at outlaw, high apm spam and hits like a noodle

with singular abilities

[native quartz]

Very true

[balmy condor]

Like okay, rogue has 3 dps specs, paladin has 1 dps spec. You’re a dps player. If you love ret, are you just assuming that you never get to play ret because it’s always worse than a rogue? Why would anyone play anything OTHER than a 3x dps class. Why would anyone play a healer other than priest? Priest has 2 healer specs and the others only have 1, so I guess you shouldn’t play that either cause priest is supposedly the better healer class because it has more healer specs

Like the whole argument is so ass backwards

[grim jay]

yeah and thats exactly why you cant have both. you cant have big hits and spam, thats broken

[sudden swan]

There used to be a "hybrid" tax for years and then Blizzard realized that was dumb and made those specs pointless unless you added some sort of utility gimmick like vt mana regen or what have you, so they stopped

[grim jay]

you can only have big hits or spam

and rogue, outlaw aside, was never about spam that much

[native quartz]

I'm fine with the slower build up and rotation but the payoff needs to be more imo

[balmy condor]

You already get the benefit of playing a rogue spec because you have 3 specs to play, some might be better than others in certain situations. Sub on smolderon for example.

You don’t need to triple down

And then also tune them higher

[native quartz]

That is very true

[grim jay]

first and foremost there doesnt need to be a higher payoff just because it has that style. that style is the payoff, either you like it or you dont

thats why there are multiple specs and classes

and the benefit of having 3 dps specs was always that atleast one can perform usually

[native quartz]

You can argue that Hunter is also a 3 DPS class but they dominate every x pack

[lone parrot]

4th rogue spec, healer spec, only ability is throwing crimson vial at other players

[subtle kiln]

Everything has to be 68-85 APM smh my head dn

[grim jay]

thats cope

like really hard cope

[sudden swan]

Lmao hunters absolutely do not dominate in high end play

[balmy condor]

Hunters weren’t really great all of Dragonflight

[heady yarrow]

the anecdotes are strong today, damn

[subtle kiln]

they fell over dead from 1/2 a mechanic

[native quartz]

Idk every x pack you see multiple hunters in world first groups and maybe one rogue

[grim jay]

you know

race isnt all of the game

its a minor part

like really really small

[subtle kiln]

Only part of game. It gives us META

[sudden swan]

Sometimes they have a useful damage profile for a fight. That is basically the only reason they get brought when they do.

[grim jay]

which isnt even true

tbf

you rarely get the meta out of the race

[subtle kiln]

you mean guild xyz with 25 ilvl higher than world first shouldn’t care?

[balmy condor]

Most of the time hunters get brought for the race it’s cause BM is the most mobile ranged dps to be fair

[grim jay]

idk, maybe

[balmy condor]

Like on any hard fight with ranged soaks

You will see BM

[subtle kiln]

I NEED to know what is BIS now

[balmy condor]

Just cause they can run around

[long island]

hi, for the burst, do i first shiv and then deathmark and kingsbane?

[grim jay]

but lets be real, people get their classes from looking at warcraftlogs and tier lists

[balmy condor]

Deathmark shiv kb

[long island]

ty pookiebear

[grim jay]

[subtle kiln]

Ofc. Shaman already dead in my guild discord

[balmy condor]

Mage dead too btw

1 nerf

Pack it up

[grim jay]

what about fury?

still alive?

[balmy condor]

Idk

Our guild struggles to have a warrior every tier

No one plays that class

[silk bane]

U mean I gotta reroll from my fotm reroll? Oh nooooo

[balmy condor]

You gotta know the fotm fotm man

There’s layers

[grim jay]

honestly, who would want to play a class that immediately makes you entirely stupid in everyones eyes?

[balmy condor]

Mage is last week fotm

4 weeks in a month

[silk bane]

Fuck I’m falling behind.

[river hawk]

theres a warrior in the game?

[silk bane]

Gotta level a warlock now

[river hawk]

wow dk

[grim jay]

we have potentially 3 warriors

[river hawk]

we have a lot of dks xD

only me as a rogue/feral

[balmy condor]

The only person in our guild that likes playing warrior is also our enhance player

It’s so doomed

[grim jay]

dont you have another shaman?

who needs enhance anymore

[balmy condor]

No

[grim jay]

unlucky. show some of your casters ele gameplay

MAYBE

[subtle kiln]

I was the only one in ours that could stomach warrior. Then our rogue quit. Back to rogue we go. They also butchered arms. Fuck warrior.

[balmy condor]

Casters are too scared to play ele because it’s 1 ranged spec on a class and it’s sucked for so long

[subtle kiln]

Resto sham who can offspec is best bet

[grim jay]

that could be me. I cant stand playing prot or fury

[river hawk]

i dont know play casters in this game tbh

[balmy condor]

Yeh well when you find one of those let me know

[storm forum]

Did ele get windfury?

[subtle kiln]

We have 2

[grim jay]

its skyfury now

[balmy condor]

All shamans did

It’s just a raid buff now

[storm forum]

Pog

[haughty flicker]

so if i play warrior i can join whispyrs guild right

[grim jay]

or resto shaman with offspec

[balmy condor]

If you’re good enough sure

[haughty flicker]

oh i have to be good

[balmy condor]

Our melee is stacked

[haughty flicker]

yeah thats rough

[subtle kiln]

Prot tanking?

[balmy condor]

Lmao

Good one

[subtle kiln]

Rip no shout

[storm forum]

Int increases our nature damage right?

[balmy condor]

Our two tanks are both top theorycrafters for their specs

[balmy condor]

No?

[grim jay]

[subtle kiln]

our ret with adhd is going fury. Should be fine

[balmy condor]

That would be dumb as hell

[storm forum]

Rip, mage lied to me

[balmy condor]

Imagine needing int lmao

[worldly sail]

mages always lie

[grim jay]

imagine listening to a mage

all they do is lying and placing wrong portals

to who knows where

[storm forum]

Tbh I'm probably misremembering something. I haven't played at all this season

[grim jay]

(I do that too)

[balmy condor]

I’m not sure int ever buffed anything on rogue

But maybe one of the classic bozos has some ancient knowledge

[subtle kiln]

Not the player that’s fosure

[royal lantern]

@marble hemlock int never did anything for rogue riight, bus im 100% sure it didnt

[storm forum]

Yeah I'm sure that's true. But about the conversation with the mage telling me their arcane int increased my nature damage.

[royal lantern]

int was spellpower at max mana(???) if i remember correctly

[balmy condor]

Yeah int is spell power

[royal lantern]

idk if max mana was allready spirit tbh

[slate crown]

Weapon skill

[jovial verge]

In a very loose sense int improved your wep skill so if you were a real diehard and needed to have a wep training set

[slate crown]

It boosted your rate at which you learn weapons

WAcky times

[haughty flicker]

[subtle kiln]

Int set to boost fisting

[slate crown]

Correct

[subtle kiln]

when you got that new claw

[storm forum]

Huh

[royal lantern]

10 int 8 strenght build

[slate crown]

Beeg brains

Beeg fists

[subtle kiln]

I remember

[balmy condor]

Hella dumb

But yeah you’re safe to assume there’s only agility, attack, and secondaries

[earnest remnant]

how do you know my nickname from highschool?

[slate crown]

In classic pre cata Int was Max mana and chance to spell crit. It did no spell power prior to cata. Also it technically raised your coefficient from spirit to spirit-based mana regen. (And the aforementioned weapon skill).

[royal lantern]

man, i dont remember anymore

i was too young back then

[slim hamlet]

Has anyone tried to remove deadly poison while caustic spatter is running on beta to see if that removes it?

[royal lantern]

and too long ago

[marble hemlock]

It did not, no. Spell hit used to work on poisons though, but that's about it.

[rotund oak]

ive learned a devastating secret considering the raccoon's gastronomical preference in pizza

[balmy condor]

He like pizza with pineapple

I’m aware

[rotund oak]

no there is something even worse than taht man

he likes

french fries

on his pizza

[silk bane]

okay but like

that shit goes hard

[rotund oak]

[silk bane]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-stanley-did-i-stutter-sarcasm-gif-3537210

[spice spire]

Petitioning for armin’s removal immediately

[spice surge]

Y'all dont live in scandinavia, fries on pizza is mild

Theres mfers here putting wild things on there

[silk bane]

dont u guys put pickles on there?

oaky weidest shit i had a while back was a few weekends ago

we went to seattle

they gave us an entree that was bacon wrapped dates

what the fuck did i eat

[rotund oak]

[spice spire]

Yeah but I acknowledge that’s some wacky ass shit

And it’s really for hot chicken stuff

And burger but burger pizza is tragic

[silk bane]

I saw a nutella pizza on tiktok a while back

lowkey wanna try

[spice surge]

The yellow curry banana and chicken pizzas

Those are the true enemies

[rotund oak]

ok im going away before i cut my wrists

curry banana and chicken on pizza

thats sacrilege

[subtle kiln]

Couldn’t have just left the pain In the other channel.

[rotund oak]

someone posted pinneaple fries man

i had to escape

[subtle kiln]

but you brought it with you. That’s not escaping. That’s spreading the disease.

[shy pecan]

wtf

[subtle kiln]

And somehow made it worse

[spice spire]

Ur country is an OPP

[spice surge]

Shrimp, pineapple, peanuts, banana and curry (yellow curry sauce)

From a local pizzeria here, im sure ill find similar ones in like every single menu i look at

[spice spire]

I have a new country to nuke

[subtle kiln]

21 on the menu. On god even in pizzaville USA there are not that many shit options on the menu

[spice surge]

Well theres 50 in total

[subtle kiln]

learn how to edit menu choices. lol

it’s called build your own.

[earnest remnant]

SEE????

its good

[silk bane]

dude pizza with fries is goated. I had it as a kid a lot. sadly you cant find it here in canada...

[earnest remnant]

i have a pizza place like 2min from me

that makes a banger one

[subtle kiln]

what style fries do they use?

[wary tulip]

decided to check how assa is doing and now i am hungry

[earnest remnant]

i think, they are called straight cut

but im not sure

like the basic ones you would get at mcd

[silk bane]

vancouvers generally great with food, like we basically have everything for every cuisine in the world. except a few european stuff

[subtle kiln]

gotcha so a thin cut

[austere sorrel]

Steak fries, best fries

[silk bane]

Steak fries is bis for poutine change my mind

[haughty flicker]

steal fries

pls dont

[subtle kiln]

how do you have poutine and not fries on a za?

[haughty flicker]

i like my fries

[subtle kiln]

wtf canada

[silk bane]

its canada dude

we have poutine everywhere

[austere sorrel]

I'm American and I've had poutine ama

[subtle kiln]

Just put the poutine on the pizza

[silk bane]

like the clubbing strip in vancouver, only thing open at 4 am is 1 pizza place and like 7 different poutine spots

[subtle kiln]

problem solved itself

[rotund oak]

practical solution

[silk bane]

bros a problem solver

[subtle kiln]

I just want my gdamn miss Vicks all dressed chips

I’d be 300lbs if I had access to those. Non stop cider & alldressed. Have fun insulin pump.

[shy pecan]

Vancouver has some good Chinese food, need to go back up there again for that

[silk bane]

yep yep we do!

for our asian cuisine we honestly have everything

japanese, korean, chinese

indian

persian is a lil sus but theres a few really good ones for that too

[subtle kiln]

mexican kinda miss

[silk bane]

nah, theres a back ally spot near gastown for that

[subtle kiln]

my friends in NY love when I make salsa for them

[rotund oak]

i like mexican food

[silk bane]

its like a hole in a wall type of thing

but god damn its good

[subtle kiln]

hole in the wall is classic Mexican

[silk bane]

dude its such a vibe, its like tubro busy at legit 4 am

its so small, but int here, its always a party

and the food is juset to die for

[subtle kiln]

those were the best places after a show in the city. You’d have a couple Mexican places and an old school diner opened up.

[shy pecan]

hmmm... Maybe i head up there next month since there's a Whitecaps/Timbers game...

[silk bane]

Pog!! come through

where are you coming from? are you close?

[subtle kiln]

time to do PT. Have fun with the pizza & fries.

[shy pecan]

I'm 3 hours south of you 😛

2.5, but same diff, but could drive up easily

[silk bane]

like near seattle?

[shy pecan]

Yeah, I'm in Seattle

[silk bane]

duuuude u shoulda told me! we were juset there for an overnight trip with some friends!

theres so many fun spots in seattle

[shy pecan]

Oh shit haha

Yeah, a lot of fun spots to visit around here

[silk bane]

we went to this rooftop patio thingy near the big starbucks there forgot the name

thats where we got the bacon wrapped dates...

was part of their "earth menu"

[shy pecan]

Ahh, on Capitol Hill?

[silk bane]

yep!

[shy pecan]

Like Terra Plata?

Only place I could think of

[earnest remnant]

i was meant to go to belgium as last weekend

with a friend

[silk bane]

thts the one yeah holy shit nice one!

[earnest remnant]

but he got the rona 2 days before our trip

[balmy condor]

There’s a burrito place back home that puts fries in their burritos and it’s banger

[silk bane]

we had reso for like 8, we got there at 7:50, and they made us wait till like 8:45.... that was fucked up LOL

but the weather was great so we just chilled up there

[silk bane]

someone said you were in LA

now

[earnest remnant]

huh?

[silk bane]

like for work or something I think

[earnest remnant]

im currently sititng in my room

[shy pecan]

brb, calling vermin control

oh ok

[earnest remnant]

[silk bane]

bro just made partner, now hes just chilling at home playing lost ark living life.

kinda jelly ngl

meanwhile over here i had to work like 6 hours extra last night to finish up my presentation for the directors today...

[earnest remnant]

i woke up at 4pm

went to gym

now im playing lost ark

[balmy condor]

I woke up

[shy pecan]

Lucky

[earnest remnant]

GF is playing League of legends atm, apparently new pass thingy is out so she grinding

so ive got her distracted

[silk bane]

log in, we playing swarm

legit bis game mode

[strange python]

does caustic spatter work with ambush procs from blindside?

[spice surge]

It works with ambush either way, but ye

[strange python]

ty

[runic hinge]

I was there. 3000 years ago

[royal lantern]

average spriest player

[marble hemlock]

Just keep in mind that you need rupture too, so the initial ambush from stealth won't apply it.

[indigo crown]

hi any have new beta build for Assa rog in M+?

[balmy condor]

Pins

[rotund oak]

Can understand burritos man,but pizza is a red flag for me

burritos can have all types of things in and be good

[balmy condor]

A calzone is halfway between burrito and pizza

It’s the same thing

[rotund oak]

calzone is magical love it

but i still dont put fries in there

[balmy condor]

Maybe should try it

Sounds great

[lyric crater]

m+ really want double vanish but ttaken suberfuge such a waste of 2 points

[royal lantern]

m+ really REALLY doesnt want double vanish

lol

nothing wants that

[balmy condor]

It’s okay, if it makes you feel any better the double vanish would be a waste of 1 point

[lyric crater]

it good for if tank chain pulling hard and u cant get a resteath

[royal lantern]

mate

[balmy condor]

It isn’t

[royal lantern]

its 1 vanish more

1

a single one

if you think wasting 4 talent points for a single additonal vanish trought out a dungeon, idk man

[balmy condor]

Dungeonslice has chain pulls, and it’s -4.5% compared to echoing reprimand

You know how much echoing reprimand is worth in total?

4.5%

Literal zdps

[royal lantern]

like, people need to understand

a 2nd chaarge doesnt mean you use the ability 2x more often

you use it the same amount of time +1

if you did vanish 24 times, with the 4 points for the 2nd charge vanish, you used it 25 times now

[balmy condor]

Well

Questionable

[royal lantern]

man whisp, you know what i mean

[balmy condor]

I’ve seen logs where you get less

Double vanish is absolute brain rot though

[royal lantern]

like, if the talent was "vanish has 1min CD now"

yeha, then it could be actually kinda big

[flint marsh]

your assumption is that people are using vanish on cd though right

[royal lantern]

but a 2nd charge to abilitys almost always just translates into "you get a single addiotnal use"

[balmy condor]

They are

[flint marsh]

you get more value from charge 2 if you dont use on cd

in m+ sometimes you arent using on cd

[balmy condor]

I mean maybe you aren’t

[flint marsh]

if you’re moving etc

not saying it makes it good but its more value than 1 extra use

[balmy condor]

From looking at logs of the higher assa logs

The ones that take double vanish get an average of 1.3 extra casts in 40 min

[royal lantern]

yeha but what is it now?

you "omg need more vanish so i have it always for packs cus i can never stealth at all"

or "i dont use vanish on cd"

cant be both at once

[flint marsh]

I dont think that they are the two arguments