assassination

[slim hamlet]

so like 2,8 or something

[static glacier]

if the average time to proc or chance to proc was a lot less there would be more variance in the distribution of sim results

same as if the reward / loss from good rng / bad rng was more extreme

[balmy condor]

well this is sims

player skill and groups themselves are a varaible

that isn't accounted for

[static glacier]

there's few people who can beat a highroll sim, encounter mechanics deny full uptime often

factor in non-bis gear etc

[balmy condor]

I mean it's just variables that muddy the statistics

it's not relevant

once we have to start accounting for humans and fight differences it's over

[static glacier]

factoring in extreme positive and negative outliers isn't useful either

[balmy condor]

I mean yeah that's why sims do 1 and 2 standard deviations

[slim hamlet]

Isn't there something in the sims that legit count for us being human

[balmy condor]

but if we're factoring in player skill there aren't enough pulls in all of warcraftlogs to get accurate enough stats

[slim hamlet]

or used to at least

[balmy condor]

yes and no

[slim hamlet]

I remember you talking about something that humans just couldn't do so you didn't let sims do it

[balmy condor]

we don't add things into the sim that would be impossible to play as a human

but the sim is still following its instruction sets

so it doesn't "make mistakes" the same way a human does

[static glacier]

you can program in errors but it doesn't really mimic how we fuck up

[slim hamlet]

Yea I know, I just remembered it since you said that

Can't remember what it was tho

[balmy condor]

we just make sure the sim isn't some infinitely godlike being

cause that doesn't help give info for a human simming

so in that regard yes it's "more human"

but for the argument of the dps spread and rng

it's still a robot

[static glacier]

this is sounding like whispyr sandbagging the sims 2.0 like the 10.2 fiasco

im curious, what kinda things do you make the sim do / not do to not make it overperform compared to human capabilities

stuff like env clipping at 0.01s?

[balmy condor]

the most clear example is echoing reprimand during shadowlands

that was a big uproar

subtlety playing echoing reprimand with shadow techniques was always a problem

cause you could get a combo point right before your gcd

and it would kick you off of your animacharge

so we locked the sim for echoing reprimand combo points

it can't react to a shadow tech proc for that

it has I think a 200ms delay

[static glacier]

so it has to land on the cp, it would never land -1 then wait for techniques

[balmy condor]

well no

it was swapping its next gcd

like 20ms before the gcd

because a proc happened

[static glacier]

a

ah

[balmy condor]

the sim had no wasted er combo points cause it always reacted instantly, and perfectly

[static glacier]

too quick and smart, what a cute little sim

[slim hamlet]

True another confession of Whispyr sandbaggin to the books

[balmy condor]

where as even the best players in the world were missing regularly

[slim hamlet]

el classico

[balmy condor]

when we kneecapped the sim for that

sub lost like 3%

[slim hamlet]

Oh yea, this was what I remembered

[balmy condor]

and the entire channel erupted

[static glacier]

3% good god

[slim hamlet]

3% is insane for that small a change

[static glacier]

I played kyrian sub for two weeks, it wasn't possible to react

unless you landed -1 and waited really

[balmy condor]

with some APL changes to minimize the loss

like waiting for the shadow tech

it ended up being like -0.5%

but the instant drop from the change and the sim not being allpowerful

was really rough

[static glacier]

im guessing people came at you with the accusations

[balmy condor]

I wasn't in charge of it

[static glacier]

(you being rogue tcs)

[balmy condor]

but yeh

rogue tc as a whole

got shit on quite a bit

for sandbagging

[static glacier]

lmao

I saw something in another disc about yall today infact

[balmy condor]

for season 1 assassination I also had some insane cook

cause CT spamming in aoe was like almost a thing

[balmy condor]

I mean yeh we've had beta sims for a long time

[static glacier]

mages out here jelly

then again they do keep getting changed every week

xd

[balmy condor]

true

[spice surge]

Lots of people think we were sangbagging all of S3 and S4 as well

Because "assa is at the bottom of the simc chart yet its at the top of wcl"

[balmy condor]

yeah I caught quite a bit of flak for that

[static glacier]

I think people massively underestimate burst / kill times and pi

when put together

[balmy condor]

yeh

[static glacier]

UH was giga low on sims for abberrus

[slim hamlet]

This was a big one

[balmy condor]

overestimate stealth, underestimate things they can't control

xdd

[slim hamlet]

"how can assassination legit be lowest simming spec while it's op"

[rotund oak]

poor mages 😦

[static glacier]

why don't people ever apply the logic in reverse

[spice surge]

Ye assa was so insane (PI and stealing 10% of your augs damage certainly did not play a role)

[static glacier]

pre-buffs for some specs OL was like 265 and above everyone by like 10k or so

[balmy condor]

I remember in season 3 someone was like "I've been hitting the dummy for a couple hours now and I've beaten my sim twice, assa sims just suck or????"

and I had to try and convince the guy

that him beating his sim with good play

is actually more healthy

than never beating it ever

(he was not convinced)

[static glacier]

im surprised he beat it with no raidbuffs

[silk bane]

i mean its not evne that, like amirdrasil either had ads that sin would blow up because they would spawn during your KB+dM and u woudl one shot with spatter

[desert cove]

[silk bane]

or like damage amps

[balmy condor]

I mean he simmed target dummy

[silk bane]

or dmaage amps in execute

[royal lantern]

how dmg big if dmg low on sims????????????????????????

[silk bane]

its just people are dumb ngl

[static glacier]

does he understand the sim number is avg from 10k iterations?

[balmy condor]

UHM ACKTUALLIE ITS THE MEDIAN

[static glacier]

was gonna ask if its avg or median

[balmy condor]

but with that many iterations it's basically the same thing

[static glacier]

but ye

[balmy condor]

[hoary remnant]

Hit target dummy in execute I beat sim 😄

[static glacier]

[slim hamlet]

(and the literal PERFECTLY made fights for assa)

[balmy condor]

no it was completely legit dummy vs dummy, above 90% the whole time, same buffs and everything

[spice surge]

Ye its just all of it at the same time

[balmy condor]

and he beat the simulated dps by 0.4%

[static glacier]

just had a highroll pull

[balmy condor]

yeh

[static glacier]

0.4 lmao

[balmy condor]

and that's like, entirely healthy for a simulation

[static glacier]

i mean does he think sim has PERFECT rng or something

[hoary remnant]

lol that could be just rng which is in every sim

[balmy condor]

he post logs and everything

and he played well

got lucky

[hoary remnant]

You could get insane procs from w/e

[balmy condor]

beat the sim

and I'm like yeh that happens

that's intended even

I'd be more concerned if NO ONE EVER beats the sim

that's much more troubling

[static glacier]

picture it now, every generator crits, you're gcd capped bc whenever low on energy you start getting back to back blindside procs

your Kb ticks ALL crit

[silk bane]

one thing i dont understand is how you wouldnt be able to beat your sim on "most" classes?
like the apl is litearlly doing actions, unless theres something in there thats not humanly possible, like dhs' instantly picking up all souls, having 100% uptime during dashes etc, why wouldnt you be able to amtch your sim?

[hoary remnant]

yup or some logs where your weapon entchants decides to keep roll a 100 😄

[balmy condor]

skill issue innit

[silk bane]

like is it common for other classes sims to be over simming?

[static glacier]

sv sim in s1 was impossible to beat

[silk bane]

okay but why?

[static glacier]

since it relied on using harpoon with 0 gcd loss despite min range like charge

and its an off the gcd spell

[silk bane]

like oversimming cannot be common

[static glacier]

litterally can't do it

its minor though

[slim hamlet]

My personal favourite thing is when people expect dungeon slice sims to show your exact DPS, instead of just being a ways to choose gear and talents

[silk bane]

like this sounds like a 1% diference

[hoary remnant]

Bro DH sims currently have it at 1.7 Mill or so XD

That cant be possible

[static glacier]

you'd in reality maybe lose a white swing + have to cover walking away with a ranged spell like kc or bomb

[silk bane]

which u should be able to beat with a slightly lucky pull

[static glacier]

with good rng yeah

but in terms of can you execute the gameplay

you just couldn't

[silk bane]

Shattered destiny always over sims for DH

but its not as much as you think. with my beta gear and that APL my sim is like 740, and i can get to 700k

[balmy condor]

a lot of especially newer theorycrafters will optimize the shit out of edge cases and stuff, you've seen your share of random jank that's +0.2% here and +0.3% there. Some tc's will merge those in because number higher so good, but it's not playable and the guides don't point it out because the guides are then curated for human consumption, so you get a disconnect between what the sim is pressing and why it's pressing it, versus how people actually learn and conceptualize their rotation

[silk bane]

that makes more sense thanks. Its still surprising to me though. because you can add like 5 of these 0.2% gains and its now at 1%

[balmy condor]

the sim plays perfectly

[silk bane]

with 1 high roll pull you should be able to bea tit

[balmy condor]

like if the sim APL is good

it's playing at 100% efficiency right

100% human efficiency

[silk bane]

unless theres litearlly not possible situations like the havoc shattered destiny stuff

[static glacier]

aka whispyr is sandbagging to sell his guides and mentoring course

[balmy condor]

but if the guides and all the players are only capable of playing it to 95%

then you can highroll 5% on your 95%

and be at 99.5%

and still not make it

[silk bane]

that makes sense

thanks for the explenation

[balmy condor]

np homieboy

[silk bane]

[balmy condor]

hitting the simdps on a dummy for example is genuinely difficult though

like I'm not saying its easy in any way

during 10.2 testing when I was hitting dummies for videos and stuff

I wasn't able to do it once

[clever sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/krill-issue-skill-issue-krill-issue-gif-25572478

[balmy condor]

on live when it came out I did it like 2 or 3 times

but it's in no way a walk in the park

you gotta get lucky

and then also not make mistakes

cause the problem is also that you're playing against a stacked deck

the sim will always play the same, it'll always play "perfect"

but if you ever make even a minor mistake

you're already behind

[silk bane]

The only sim i could never beat was outlaw.

but I also had infinite more practice on sub/sin

[balmy condor]

and you gotta proc just that bit more to make up for it

every time you make a tiny mistake

you have to rng harder because of it

and your window for being able to beat the sim shrinks

especially because you're human and you will make a mistake

even small ones

it's impossible not to

[silk bane]

@midnight mist how realistic is it to match outlaw sims? like just dummy single target just hit the guy type of thing

[midnight mist]

id

k

I never do that

also outlaw is too hard rn

in s1 sure

[silk bane]

Im curious now, because sub and sin I cna match the sims quite well. but outlaw im legit like 8-10% off

[midnight mist]

but idk why it wouldnt be realistic tho

just hit dummy good

[static glacier]

i feel like having perfect execution on OL is hard af

[midnight mist]

or

[spice spire]

Mf says too hard because he’s not typing the Mona Lisa

And yeah

I said that correctly

[royal lantern]

maybe for you, not for me

[midnight mist]

I mean

[spice spire]

Typing a painting

[static glacier]

[royal lantern]

[runic hinge]

[static glacier]

thing is 1 or 2 mistakes for sin and sub between cds don't matter

[silk bane]

its not just that, Its just I can never get similar uptime on buffs, I can look at my casts and be like okay, am i missing casts here? am i missing this there? and its like with similar casts for everything, the damage is different. buffs are different

[static glacier]

for OL a single mistake can make the whole pull trying to beat sim go gg

[silk bane]

its hard to figure out where youre missing the damage and why

[silk bane]

thats every class.

[static glacier]

it's cus the sims factor in highroll 5 rolls

[midnight mist]

well thats because there is not a single thing you are doing wrong

[static glacier]

int he average

[runic hinge]

you're right, ive never been wrong

[midnight mist]

you are making mistakes there and there, being a bit slow

[static glacier]

nah, im fairly sure if you fucked up sub or sin a lil between cds you'd barely lose anyhting

[midnight mist]

and then you lose armin

but thats just cause you are a noob tho

[silk bane]

based

I dont have a lot of outlaw practice so maybe thats why

[midnight mist]

also uh

[silk bane]

but also im not practicing that shit. id rather reroll and join you in havoc

[midnight mist]

you cant even sim on live rn so i cant try it out

[static glacier]

sending bte even 1 finisher late = lower ace value / lower damage in addition to delaying ur future btes bc of that

its v easy to lose casts of bte over a whole fight

[midnight mist]

I wanted to hit a dummy for 10 min

but no

[hexed frost]

You mean just auto-attacking/using builders till envenom is about to drop off?

[silk bane]

if you do later / they fix things, lmk im curious

[static glacier]

@silk bane it's completely true, you send a dispatch instead of a bte even once you lose the 5+ cps worth of restless blades on bte and have no chance of ace - do it 2-3 times and that's a whole bte cast lost if not more

[midnight mist]

well that will be in tww

i mighjt have forgotten

[silk bane]

and thats like 40k dps. not large enough to matter

or like 80k

ir even 100k

[static glacier]

not 40k but if you keep doing it i'd not be surprised if you lost like 10-20k dps

[spring stream]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[static glacier]

can probably try simming apl with delayed bte

[spice spire]

[silk bane]

no i mean avg bte cast is like 200k from a r1 log i just pulled and tahst with all raid buffs.

on a dummy 1 or 2 missed casts are litearlly less than 0.1% of your damage

[static glacier]

it impacts ur ar cd / kir cd / vanish cd too

[silk bane]

they wont matter

[static glacier]

due to less cp efficiency due to no ace

[midnight mist]

remind me in tww

[spice spire]

No

[silk bane]

not as much as you think. these are all litearlly 0.1% differences

you add 10 of them and its still 1%

all of the random outlaw copes

[static glacier]

well what explanation do you have for why it's hard to hit OL sims on dummy then?

since I do agree sin and sub are much more reasonable

to hit or get close to

[silk bane]

dont know, havent played it enough to know, but if I had to guess is a combination of more impact from MS/spellq windows/just being slower than sim in pressing buttons and practice

because these thinsg u guys say oh i missed 20 cps over a whole fight

i missed 4 bte casts

all fo it is gonna sum up to 1%

[balmy condor]

this whole thing is also why I'm so touchy about m+ sims and dungeonslice and stuff, dungeonslice on its own is already highly questionable in terms of accuracy to the game. Like we tell people oh get enough energy and fill scent of blood and you're good, but what the sim sees is
refreshable&(!variable.regen_saturated|!variable.scent_saturation)&target.time_to_die-remains>(4+(talent.dashing_scoundrel*5)+(variable.regen_saturated*6)
it's capable of doing the math for 8 target pulls on each target and it can know exactly what to snipe with a rupture or not snipe and refresh or not refresh. This is an example of something that is really pushing it in terms of the "unplayable" thing, but towards the end of a pull you can kinda eyeball mobs that are gonna die in that timeframe and snipe them, so it's ehhhhhhhh, let it slide

or this CT line
energy.regen_combined>25&!cooldown.deathmark.ready&target.time_to_die-remains>6
it's blocking CT in aoe if deathmark is ready, which is a bit counterintuitive to play cause you don't really want to CT during deathmark either, you'd be dumb to not envenom during dm/kingsbane/shiv, but it's also checking if you have a regen above 25, which is math that you simply can't do as a player on the spot. You could get a weakaura for it I guess which makes it "playable", but those conditions aren't talked about in guides because most of the time for one, it's actually better as a player to get CT up before cds, even if the sim shows a slight loss, but secondly, you can get to 25 in pretty much every opener just by stumbling into it. The 25 condition is really only a stop-gap for the sim to force its priorities to rupture/garrote to try and stabilize before casting CT. And that's also teetering on the edge of like "is this playable", because in concept it's totally playable and fine but the sim does it so much more precisely than any player would.

So you get this shit situation where you're optimizing for dungeonslice, which is already inherently flawed as a true representation, but then you're also optimizing target time to die timers that you as a human can only do by feel, and energy values and niche sequencing that is unintuitive for how the spec pans out. The sim doesn't care how weird it is to CT during deathmark instead of slamming another envenom during your high point of caustic and shiv and kingsbane, it just does as it's told. And that's the big crux of the problem of theorycrafting for m+ and this the shit that keeps me up at night wondering if it's too far or not far enough

anyway

[midnight mist]

wtf

[balmy condor]

rant over

[silk bane]

holy fuck

[midnight mist]

ok im reading that

brb guys

ye i hate these energy rules

for outlaw we always try to keep them at a minium or replace them by actual readable and doable things

cause its just dumb imo

[static glacier]

wait a sec, wouldn't it technically be a gain to pre-CT before dm, or does the sim heavily prio immediately sending dm? I doubt delaying dm in real scenarios loses a cast ever

wild that the sim gets better results not pre-CTing

[silk bane]

thats not what the sim does

its not about opener

this is a rule about when to CT

[balmy condor]

it's a gain to specifically block CT when deathmark is available according to the sim

and it's pretty nebulous and esoteric about why that is which I frankly don't have the time to dissect nor the care to do so

but yeh

[static glacier]

theoretically it makes little sense to me why that is

[balmy condor]

there's weird shit like that in aoe and m+ sims

and that's on top of trying to avoid overfitting the model

dungeonroute sims for example, or MDT sims

they don't have variance

so if someone were to optimize for that

you'd run into INSANE overfit

no matter what you try to do, you're boxed in by the limitations of either technology and servers not being able to sim it fast enough, or youre boxed in by the disconnect between either fight vs reality, or robot vs human

and trying to balance all of that into something everyone can agree is "accurate enough"

[static glacier]

does the sim avoid using DM if ttk is below a certain threshold?

or does it just send

[balmy condor]

is insanely challenging

[onyx linden]

Is there any reason to have Ambush separately bound these days? Coming back from a long break and muti just seems to auto turn into ambush unlike before.

[static glacier]

nah

[onyx linden]

ty

[static glacier]

just have it on stealth bar

[onyx linden]

ya

[balmy condor]

so the deathmark condition is pretty stacked, it's actually one condition that checks 3 other conditions:

• The first is this standard simple stealth conditional check !talent.master_assassin.enabled|dot.garrote.ticking
• The second checks for kingsbane syncing !talent.kingsbane|cooldown.kingsbane.remains<=2
• The third then combines them and further checks for the "prep" being done, specifically being out of stealth, rupture and envenom up !stealthed.rogue&dot.rupture.ticking&buff.envenom.up&!debuff.deathmark.up&variable.deathmark_ma_condition&variable.deathmark_kingsbane_condition
• That last conditional then is the final true/false and gets checked on the actual cast, alongside an edge case check to just send it regardless of anything if the fight is going to be over soon variable.deathmark_condition|fight_remains<=20

and it's that final line that fires off deathmark

also if you're wondering why it checks rupture and not gar/snd, it's cause envenom and rupture themselves have their own locks in place that prevent the situation from occuring in the first place

[static glacier]

interestingly it doesn't care about shiv cd

i guess that's tied to kb

[balmy condor]

shiv is synced to kingsbane in a seperate list

so there's an actions list, and then a cooldowns list

all that deathmark stuff happens in the cooldowns list

call_action_list,name=shiv
kingsbane,if=(debuff.shiv.up|cooldown.shiv.remains<6)&buff.envenom.up&(cooldown.deathmark.remains>=50|dot.deathmark.ticking)|fight_remains<=15```

and then these three lines are back to back

so you got the deathmark check

and then the list for shiv conditionals

and then kingsbane

I don't really wanna get into the shiv list cause it's a bit of a jumbly mess

but it looks like this

[edgy panther]

now the S4 is over all the keys we do wont count in rio and wowlogs?

[balmy condor]

and basically covers every single talent combo you could think of

[balmy condor]

would be counted as post-season

[edgy panther]

thanks<3

[balmy condor]

in the dropdown you can select season 4 post

and that would be "prepatch" keys

[static glacier]

this line is confusing to me

its a follow up from the above line

[balmy condor]

yeh so if you aren't talented into CT, you're in single target, or if CT is already ticking

is bracketed into one conditional

and then at the end you'll see | fight_remains<=charges*8

[static glacier]

does that mean you send if fight ends in 8s or less

[balmy condor]

which is just the catch-all for "hey the fight is ending, send the charges"

[static glacier]

the charges confused me

ngl xd

[balmy condor]

well shiv has 2 charges

if you have 2 charges then it's 16 seconds

so it needs to send earlier

in order to get those off

[static glacier]

yeah

8s per shiv *charges

[balmy condor]

yeh

[static glacier]

makes perfect sense

do you ever worry that all the dependent conditions

will require A LOT of rewriting

whenever they add stuff like hero talents

or shit that can alter how the class plays

[balmy condor]

they have before and they will again

[static glacier]

[balmy condor]

it's the natural cycle

I rewrote the entire sim from basically 0 for the 10.2 rework

that shiv list didn't exist in 10.1

I split it out

I also redid all the bleed lines

it be like that

had to do the same thing going into 10.0

all the talent additions and stuff meant had to check a bunch of stuff

kingsbane being back means all the shiv syncing that wasn't relevant before

etc etc

part of life

[static glacier]

I guess you got lucky with few changes going into 11

.0

[balmy condor]

deathstalker wasn't too hard to get into sims yeh

I admit I haven't looked into m+ basically at all

for all the reasons above

and the fact that the shit is changing way too fast

but it's functional enough to not completely troll the mark

[silk bane]

I have for sub deathstalker, ill give you a hint. its somehow less complex than single target. just keep mark up, consume darkest night when available gj youre him

[static glacier]

m+ wise im fairly sure youll have to factor in an ambush on main target

other than that I think it should be the same

[balmy condor]

yeh not that easy for ass with all the bleed juggling as well I'm almost positive there's stuff there that it stumbles over or should be rupturing but then gets stuck on the capstone

like especially with chained pulls in dslice

[silk bane]

ambush once from open if you dont have darkest night up. thats it

[balmy condor]

it's gonna get the capstone A LOT

from all the dying targets

and I think it cannibalizes a ton of potential ruptures for it

[silk bane]

FUCK. are we suppossed to snipe darkest night casts now?

i havent looked into that

nah fuck this game

[balmy condor]

there's also probably some shit there with making sure caustic is up before the capstone gets used

etc etc

[static glacier]

nah ain't no way

they can't do this

[balmy condor]

like there's a bunch of shit there

m+ can very quickly get very messy

like just the chain pull example

[static glacier]

its semi-sandbagging but ain't no way the sim is gonna perfectly mouseover snipe darkest night envs

[balmy condor]

how many ruptures should you have up

before you start sniping capstone

I have no clue

[static glacier]

my guess is gonna be between 3 and 6

[balmy condor]

how realistic is it to assume a player can do anything that's found

[static glacier]

in reality it depends on gars out too

[balmy condor]

yeh

you see my problem

[static glacier]

thing is if we can keep sniping the capstone it will want to prep caustic

for each juiced env

im getting a headache already

[balmy condor]

here's the REALLY cooked idea

ready for this cringe

[runic hinge]

Always

[shy pecan]

[balmy condor]

what if we have to force the sim to cycle targets by health from lowest to highest, so that you can control capstone + clear the witnesses

like think of 5 targets at 10%,20%,30%,40%,50%

you would want to hit the 10% to proc capstone and get a clear the witnesses

[silk bane]

this is my dm to eleem.

I am a master of cringe

[balmy condor]

but you'd kill the thing that's already dying

which is less uptime on AoE

[silk bane]

i can find the cringiest of the cringe

[balmy condor]

which is less CP

so is that even better

or you do want to prio the HIGHEST target

in order to AoE for longer

decisions decisions.....

[silk bane]

I dont follow this. youre already dumping envenoms into your marked target

you would just be moving the mark every darket night proc

to the lowest health mob

[balmy condor]

yes

like think of the mobs being 10% hp apart right

if you kill the lowest

you give yourself time to get the mark back up, and then get a reset on the capstone

every time

but now if you have two mobs at 10% hp

and you mark one of them

the other dies

which means you "lost" a potential reset

so the question is whether the loss in AoE uptime is worth purposefully rushing low targets to their death for resets

cause the capstone in isolation, doesn't want mobs to die at the same time

[subtle tundra]

id rather get cancer

[balmy condor]

it wants them to die staggered

but by staggering you lose AoE uptime, and caustic uptime

[hexed frost]

Can I make an add "demise faster" by refreshing rupture/garrote inside execute even if the target would die within 8 seconds otherwise?

[balmy condor]

cause you have less AoE for longer

[hexed frost]

[silk bane]

lemme introduce you to mouse over envnom for darkest night snipes

[balmy condor]

yeah but mouseovers break

[silk bane]

LE was right with the mouse over everything

[static glacier]

"I'm not in range to attack that target!"

[static glacier]

"I can't attack that target"

[balmy condor]

problem with this is that sudden demise sniping is so insanely inefficient

like not only are you applying a dot on purpose that won't last the duration, the sudden demise proc you're getting is 2/3rds efficient to that dot itself in the first place already

double cooked

[silk bane]

okay but what you didnt think about is if youre constantly moving darkest night to lowest health target, youre also increasing your darkest night damage cuz more execute uptime on the darkest night + mark targets. assuming all the deathstalker random hits are getting zoldyck'd

kekw

gl bud, youre gonna need a lot of monsters for that one

[royal lantern]

can you both stop talking

please

[balmy condor]

correct

[royal lantern]

do me that favor

[hexed frost]

I wonder how am I sometimes getting a 5M tick of sudden demise

Like does it mean that I have 5M worth of bleed left on that target?

[balmy condor]

I mean this is the shit I've been having in the back of my head for like 3 months now

[hexed frost]

[balmy condor]

I've been seeing this nonsense from a distance

[silk bane]

this isnt new to me bud, I litearlly spent like 6 hours getting a 0.2% gain from litearlly cancel auraing finality to gaurantee it on darkest night all the time.

[subtle tundra]

i think you need a scratch in the space between the cranium and the skin

[silk bane]

turns out all you need to know is your next 4 finishers

[balmy condor]

5M tick of sudden demise means you have 7.5M worth of bleed left, and that happens when you have deathmark on a target and CT and zoldyck and shiv and all the lethal dose stacks from all of that

[static glacier]

sounds like the kinda thing that will make people lose dps bc they do it wrong xd

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-it-get-some-help-just-stop-please-stop-stop-it-meme-gif-26307878

[hexed frost]

[balmy condor]

kurt cobain is my role model

[hexed frost]

It's just bleedmaxxing to the moon atm

[hexed frost]

https://tenor.com/view/joe-biden-presidential-debate-huh-confused-gif-16704157274113773062

[balmy condor]

the roof of my mouth is so super itchy thinking about niche deathstalker optimizations

[silk bane]

which is why we didnt add it to the apl. or post it in sub-tc cuz that shits aids

[static glacier]

reccomend everyone to play fatebound, it's me the voices do this or things will be bad

[subtle tundra]

god a lobotomy sounds better

[silk bane]

8 grams of iron directly ingested to the cranium?

[balmy condor]

I think a ton of people don't realize how many ideas we don't even say out loud purely from the fear of god striking us where we stand for the heresey

[static glacier]

meanwhile mages send another pyro onto main target while smiling

[sick sail]

Still need to read how to use hero talents in our rotation. Been practicing with what you got on wowhead for now

[balmy condor]

don't scroll up

[static glacier]

actually don't, things got dark

[balmy condor]

deathstalker you ambush once from stealth and then finish on 7 to get the capstone going

fatebound you ignore entirely and it just vibes

[static glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/raingump-kto-kounotori-kounotoritoken-lbow-gif-26528408

whispyr rn

[balmy condor]

me staring at deathstalker dslice

[vestal wren]

i added some unholy things to the sub apl over the years

[royal lantern]

we know

like shadowdust

[vestal wren]

dust was fairly logical

i mean things like in s4 SL

[balmy condor]

we're all sinners

[vestal wren]

S3 and 4

when i added backstab in shadow dance

the interessting thing is, most of the small optimizations are so small in gain that they can be ignored

[static glacier]

yet we're out here compelled to do every small thing to the detriment of our raidteam

I once killed myself and two other people on a kill of volcoross playing around branch

[vestal wren]

fair

we had the discussion a lot

[static glacier]

I swore then that the trinket isn't worth, never got ember tho

so was stuck xd

[vestal wren]

new players often care too much about needing to learn every small detail and optimization

to then perform like shit because they never spend time making sure the basics are solid

[static glacier]

yeah, that's v true

esp with a class like rogue with a ton of micro optimisations

funnily enough outside of that I didn't have any cursed times with branch otherwise

nymue went perfectly fine

[vestal wren]

e.g. somone was extremely upset that i didn't state the fact that you can delay cold blood to 3rd finisher in the faq

"its a gamechanger"

[static glacier]

is it rlly tho xd

[vestal wren]

"literally day and night diffrence"

well ye, its like 0.2% dps

vs. macro and send

[static glacier]

0.2 gamechanger hmmm

[vestal wren]

possibly even lower

but yes, the same guy did send me a log to review

[static glacier]

if anything its always macro and just delay sending dance by 1-2 globals to line up

[vestal wren]

and he struggled with basics

literally did not use symbols for 1 min 30

[static glacier]

bro was actually concerned with cb

[royal lantern]

(lowkey, fuck symbols tbh)

[static glacier]

thats wild

symbols unironically became our most important cd with shadowcraft

or w/e its called

[vestal wren]

i made a pin for new players

[midnight mist]

y ou woudlnt add a 0.2% gain to the apl just cause its a bit degen?

[static glacier]

tea + dance is interesting, is it worth wasting energy

[static glacier]

this is why ur sim was 265k and r1 was like 250

xd

[midnight mist]

what

[vestal wren]

you usually add even small gains, but some apl improvements you would not do

e.g. for outlaw using shiv rotational was such a case

or things humanly almost impossible

[midnight mist]

idk anything i would do goes into the apl

[static glacier]

its ok

[midnight mist]

if its pressing shiv

that shiv thing wasnt event that degen

[balmy condor]

I don't add anything 0.3% or less unless it's a very obvious thing like "oh the sim is just trolling this edge case" or something

[midnight mist]

we litteraly did the same thing with ps all the time

[balmy condor]

but if it's an actual rotational impact

it's gotta be 0.4

[midnight mist]

hm

[royal lantern]

and thats why you dont do it

[vestal wren]

i do add small changes too, if they make sense

[static glacier]

maybe if something is v intuitive the margin can be less

[balmy condor]

I refuse to add random scraps of damage just to make the sim go higher

[balmy condor]

correct

[midnight mist]

if we didnt add 0.2% stuffs to outalw apl we would sim 100k under sin on god

[balmy condor]

like changing sequencing on opener or something can be 0.1% idc

[static glacier]

like in reality and logs then eh

[balmy condor]

but if it's some weird shit for 0.3% only specifically because under 30% on a 3 min sim

nah

miss me with all that nonsense

[devout mist]

is FoK in the ST sim? thats all i wanna know

[balmy condor]

no

[devout mist]

ruined

[balmy condor]

its 0.0% atm

[midnight mist]

I do everything that we put in sims idk, without these stuffs life would be pretty boring

[static glacier]

are you trying to tell me that clearing the witness doesn't matter in st

[vestal wren]

you can storm on st on sub

[balmy condor]

but I'm scared another round of tuning can easily shift that to 0.4%

and then I'd feel pressured to add it

[devout mist]

how much is that XD

[vestal wren]

its more

assassiantion has the benefit of mutilate actually doing damage

[balmy condor]

yeh

[vestal wren]

backstab hits like a wet noodle

[balmy condor]

with the downside of ambush not doing damage

[static glacier]

ever since acro left I've seen clips of you with emply globals and energy available

[midnight mist]

ye

[devout mist]

wet towel? mate.... those things can slap

[static glacier]

sorry that was a bit too deep

[vestal wren]

so its easy for storm to win over backstab

[devout mist]

literally

[vestal wren]

i corrected it to wet noodle

to not give the wrong impression

[static glacier]

seems that the witness is going to snitch on sin rogues, gg

[limpid quest]

https://tenor.com/view/dagger-gif-22445659

Im Happy the smart people are figuring this out

[balmy condor]

now that I'm thinking about it

I think I'd be willing to take a 5% loss

if it meant no fok in single target

like if fatebound is -5% to that

[midnight mist]

[balmy condor]

I'm perma fatebound

[static glacier]

5% vs fok every 3 envs?

oh dear

its just gonna be a glowy weak aura that tells you "FRESS FAN"

[devout mist]

but with fatebound u get to get the god pull

[balmy condor]

you won't catch me doing such sacrilege

I am a pious man

fok in single target is the devils work

I will take no part in such witchcraft

[static glacier]

i saw you spec sub, your hands are stained

[carmine fable]

Anyone knows wich lethal poisons are we using this week? Wound + ampli ?

[static glacier]

I still can see the blood

[vestal wren]

but, did you see him spec outlaw?

[balmy condor]

always deadly, never wound

[static glacier]

most cursed timeline

[slate crown]

Alcohol

[ancient tangle]

do you guyz know why i can't use my burst pot from macro anymore ? 😮

[balmy condor]

you have to play deadly or else you can't get caustic up

and wound does 0 dps

so

you never play that

[junior aurora]

same

[balmy condor]

wound poison just like me fr

[static glacier]

if ur ever playing anything but amp + deadly you should be another spec

[shy pecan]

Same

[carmine fable]

So fuck sanguine ?

[static glacier]

wound on sin is sacriliege

[balmy condor]

sanguine ain't your problem

[balmy condor]

deadly + instant is fine

or just deadly

[junior aurora]

sanguine is nobodys problem

[shy pecan]

Sanguine doesn’t exist in TWW anyway

[balmy condor]

non dtb is good

[junior aurora]

the bad affix cant hurt you anymore

[devout mist]

be sure to get cripling this week

makes tanks happy

[subtle tundra]

i like seeing people think we have choice in poisons

[junior aurora]

i just bring my frost mage

[static glacier]

deadly + instant :wild:

[balmy condor]

but yeah if you play assassination and take wound poison you're a bozo

[static glacier]

I mean deadly solo is aight too

[runic hinge]

Yeah definitely take dtb and crippling and sometimes even shiv so it’s extra crippled

[static glacier]

but wound tho

[junior aurora]

tbh if you have put a poison on in the last month you might be a bozo

[carmine fable]

Also no crimson tempest this week right?

[runic hinge]

Don’t forget to ks the 10% hp mob in the pool too

[balmy condor]

what

[shy pecan]

Huh?

[balmy condor]

are you doing like +17's?

[past forum]

tanks that have a menty b about crippling poison are bad

[runic hinge]

I’ve put wound poison on (it’s for a meme I’ll share later)

[static glacier]

almost forgot to mention the Blind > kidney tech for mobs in sang too

[limpid quest]

I put wound on my mounts makes thier scales shiny all its good for

[junior aurora]

ah the mystery mouseketool

[balmy condor]

very based

or this

also based

[ancient tangle]

why kidney ?

[static glacier]

just bc the bottom of the tree is triangluar does not mean it is strong or stable, this isn't architecture whispyr

[runic hinge]

Gotta make sure they heal to full

[static glacier]

amen brother

[balmy condor]

there's so many viable builds to play for assa it's crazy (sims will never be able to keep up I can't even begin to conceptualize how to test APL changes across all the builds and have it make sense my head is exploding)

[carmine fable]

15s just asking bec mr zerocool said that on twitch today

[balmy condor]

dear god

[junior aurora]

take the good talents and dont take the bad talents

can we add zerocool to the autofilter

[shy pecan]

[balmy condor]

I mean look, I can't stop you from doing what you want

[carmine fable]

@balmy condor

[balmy condor]

but if you're asking me

for my opinion

taking that much single target in m+ is troll as shit

[carmine fable]

You are like my god

Zerocool is like a sensei

[balmy condor]

I will never understand people who untalent all their aoe

for m+

[junior aurora]

so my team stops asking me to come to dungeons in offseason

sandbagging the shit out of overall

[static glacier]

let the spriest eat

[balmy condor]

but it's very common for the m+ community, they're on a pendulum a lot of the time

one season will be "oh my god I need more aoe"
the next season will be "oh my god full single target the prio target needs to die 0.2 seconds faster"

and it'll just flip between the two

zero basically just takes a raid build into m+ with iron wire and carnage talented

and that's totally fine

he thinks that works the best

and I can't fault him for that

[static glacier]

reality is we need everything, at the same time with no tradeoffs

[devout mist]

chill there mate, we aint mages

pick 1

[balmy condor]

but from where I'm sitting, dropping stuff like crimson tempest

will never be worth it

crimson tempest and thrown precision are two INSANELY strong talents

[static glacier]

do I look like a ret paladin or afflock or any of these other peasants to you, DO I LOOK LIKE A VOTI SIN ROGUE (my trauma never fully healed)

[balmy condor]

thrown precision on its own is worth taking, even if you don't take crimson tempest

it's really

really

really good

and crimson tempest is like an 8%+ talent in m+ overall

so like

CAN you cannibalize easily 10%+ of your overall damage in the name of single target

sure you can

[devout mist]

waiting for the CT in ST timeline

[balmy condor]

but you won't catch me ever telling someone to do that

especially if you're not pushing for rank 1 keys

if you have to ask me for an opinion, you aren't playing at a level where I think it's worth considering

[static glacier]

dont even joke about this, I've lived it

[balmy condor]

CT on 3 without tier

[devout mist]

https://tenor.com/view/no-gif-24102779

[balmy condor]

but the damage multi on CT means CT in single target is VERY dead

[woeful meteor]

CT on ST just copy sepulcher tier set again

it wont be enough

[kindred breach]

• those guys push high end keys with permanent teams, he can surely ajust and it will be good but it wont for us common ones

[devout mist]

think big, make this talent not require 3 ruptured targets and buff the dmg to 70%

[normal mist]

exactly

tell that to pug rogues that join the server saying we are wrong

"BUT ZERO DOES IT"

Yes, but he's on another level, and he's playing with a team

[woeful meteor]

Zero

[normal mist]

He's fine, he does his thing, and it works for him and his team

[balmy condor]

it hurts me physically watching him play full single target and double vanish

but what do I know

[normal mist]

NOTHING

Evil laugh

[balmy condor]

the bile in my mouth looking at his talents doesn't time keys

so I just swallow and move on with my day

[static glacier]

ngl, double vanish is like 100% off the table for aoe isn't it

or just off the table in general

[clever sapphire]

he has a command for double vanish vs er

[balmy condor]

It's also weird to me that you would go full bore 100% leaning into single target, and then when the opportunity arises to take literally anything else on the talent tree, you make the choice to play the one talent that is both awful on paper mathematically, but also just by far the worst thing in single target regardless of how you spin it

[balmy condor]

yeh he's "just testing it" isn't it

[clever sapphire]

i think it was something with, he takes it in a key like halls where you just chain pull all the way to first boss

so he gets like 1-2 more vanish casts in the key

[balmy condor]

sigh....

if it works I guess

I mean I can try and justify many choices

there's reasons for doing a whole number of things differently

but double vanish

I cannot reason

like no matter the spin you put on it

it's just awful

[royal lantern]

"i waste literally 4 talent points for 1x more vanish in a key"

[balmy condor]

there's no argument to be made for it

[clever sapphire]

ye i only remember the halls part of it, there was a lot of text and i didnt really bother reading it

[royal lantern]

and the cult will use it

because OFC they do

[balmy condor]

the situation where it could be useful and good, requires a pull cadence that simply does not exist

and even then

it's still 4 points

like you have to be DAMN SURE

that those 4 points are worth that much

[clever sapphire]

but it somehow makes sense for the trash up to first boss because the aoe silence really pays off there in those 20-21s id assume

[balmy condor]

that's a lot of points

[static glacier]

defensively / utility-wise

if for w/e reason the key hinges on you having an extra set of iron wire stops

[clever sapphire]

i also remember that in like ruby for example i have seen him quite a few times go with hybrid build up to first boss and then tp out and spec cleave

[past forum]

if iron wire value is so big, surely you can afford at least 1 restealth in that chain of pulls

[subtle tundra]

i need to get publicly castrated

[past forum]

is the timer so incredibly tight that you'll insta deplete if you let your rogue restealth for the important doubles?

[clever sapphire]

dont think its for the opener iw

but i dont push those keys

[main monolith]

e reprimand/ cool blood / subterfuge ; which is the best in M+

[clever sapphire]

first

then 2nd

then speccing something else

[errant trail]

ive learned

that Crimson tempest

does BIG

dmg

[limber lion]

Sure does

[royal lantern]

thats kinda the point

many enemys = CT does big dmg

[slim hamlet]

But

My ST dmg?

[errant trail]

got 4 poison

go*

[slim hamlet]

Sorry, will be going this build and no one can stop me

[static glacier]

i wouldn't be surprised if ct is a st gain when sent on aoe

[errant trail]

no spatter

i mean ur raiding

[slim hamlet]

No shot it is not

[slim hamlet]

No, no

I got IC

[errant trail]

thats wiggly

but on boss no one comes for u

[haughty flicker]

spatter is for nerds

[slim hamlet]

^

[errant trail]

i mean ur bleeds will do the work i guess

[slim hamlet]

What is this goofy ahh shoe

[crisp creek]

!gudie

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[subtle drift]

Do we know which build will be best for leveling?

Search didn't help

[past forum]

the one that has talents

[subtle drift]

[tough gorge]

Kinda wish our tier was somehow implemented in tww. Good dmg in aoe.

[static glacier]

you mean hero talents or regular ones

[subtle drift]

Kinda both, but regular more important

[static glacier]

just play fatebound and forget about em til max lvl

[knotty radish]

Lol

[past forum]

probably fatebound i guess. and regular talents shouldnt matter much at all. the biggest thing a rogue can do is spec sub cause the shadowstrike port will save you 5-10 seconds per quest

[subtle drift]

And if i play with other players and we do big pulls while running, probably bleeding would be best?

[kindred breach]

you want more insta damage for world content sub is def better

Mobs will be melting before you run 50% of your deathmark

you just run and spam shuriken storm/black powder ggs

[royal lantern]

rapid injenction is excatly that

so idk what more you want lol

[subtle drift]

Thanks

[clever sapphire]

Well now that is a lie, rapid cant even compare to current tierset

Change my mind

[tough gorge]

I meant envenomous explosion, second part

[clever sapphire]

Bleed build and let sudden demise take care of the mobs

[royal lantern]

its supposed to emulate the same gameplay

ofc its not the same strenght, that would be OP lol

[kindred breach]

On the other hand if you're planning to run M+ as sin i would suggest starting playing it on world content, its a first start

[royal lantern]

? and Spatter makes all poison dmg do AoE anyway

like, more envenom dmg IS more aoe dmg on envenom casts

[kindred breach]

you won't be as efficient but you'll start to catch the opening on packs

[clever sapphire]

Well i dont care, just gimme current tierset over deathstalker and we have a deal

[tough gorge]

Right, and envenomous explosion amplified it

[royal lantern]

mate, i take a empty bottle of water over deathstalker lol

[clever sapphire]

Fair enough

[royal lantern]

allright

so you want the current tier set gameplay, aka "envenom inside envenom for bonus dmg"

we got a talent that says "envenom during envenom does bonus dmg"

it at the same time also gives you more aoe because ALL poison dmg is translated into aoe dmg trought spatter anyway

so, what am i missing

beyond "dmg number on details was high on that effect"

[clever sapphire]

It was a seperate dmg number on details

Thats about it

[royal lantern]

yeha

[clever sapphire]

Thats why you wont get the same "feeling" with rapid injection as you get with current tset

Cause you can in theory check the tset dmg

But cant really check rapid injection dmg

[royal lantern]

like, the current tierset could have literally be rapid injection

but with a higher number

and it would be the same as the "envenom explosion"

[clever sapphire]

Its all in the head

Currently you go "uh big envenom explosion from tset in aoe"

But in tww you wont go "uh bigger spatter because rapid injection"

Its the same im not arguing against that

Its just a different feeling

Since its weaker

Atleast i think thats their point

Or i hope

[tough gorge]

In pre patch you have both. That 2nd tier effect is simply really strong, thats all, wasnt that complicated.

It also very much encouraged a strong relationship with envenom within envenom. 10% boost to envenom is not a big deal if you dont follow it properly.

[normal mist]

wdym

[quiet oar]

2pc and the Talent thst works the same but increases envenom by 10%

Royal

[normal mist]

[quiet oar]

I already miss 2pc explosion

[stark musk]

Can I something like that change into tier set via Revival Catalyst? https://overdue.rent/yPjFG

[quiet oar]

Yes

[slate crown]

4pc was explosion, 2pc is the speed/nature increase on energy spent 🤓

[quiet oar]

Oh Yeah

4pc

Lisonna can count to 4 PC but cant count 3 specs on rogue

I see

[slate crown]

so true

[quiet oar]

The 3 is the issue i see

Or you are in Stuck in classic

Where you only had dual spec

[subtle kiln]

Only 2 specs

outlaw doesn’t exist

just tears

[worldly sail]

only 1 spec*

only the spec i want to play at the moment counts

[clever sapphire]

No specs, its just a class

[hoary remnant]

Some new stuff

Was just updated a couple of min ago

[runic hinge]

Nice

CT buffed is good for me

[hoary remnant]

idk some seems old the sectech nerf for sub is new

[runic hinge]

And my goals

[slate crown]

Yo we got more energy regen

now our envenom uptime can go from 95% to 96%

[runic hinge]

Whispyr gonna flip

[raven egret]

👀

[slate crown]

pogers

[raven egret]

Yes

[slate crown]

pewgers even

[raven egret]

we auto-attacking

[slate crown]

[runic hinge]

Slice and dice stonks

[raven egret]

Dat Crimson Tempest thought

CT STONKS GOING UP BABY!

[spice spire]

CT gamers rise up

Wait I lost my snd bit

Pissed

[scenic nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/toss-coin-flip-gif-26540302

[raven egret]

Outlaws will be happy, Killing Spree still makes your camera have a seizure, but DMG buff!

[hoary remnant]

These look like last weeks buffs. Being buffed in the span of beta build 20%

[runic hinge]

Get a ct flair. There’s only 2 of us

[flint tusk]

Runs to ravenholdt in light of more tuning

[raven egret]

I'd have CT flair but my hatred of Dust only rivals my hatred of the Coin

[spice spire]

Okay brokie

[haughty flicker]

can i crimson tempest in st now

[spice spire]

[haughty flicker]

mr whyspir

[balmy condor]

brother do I seriously have to record ANOTHER video

[haughty flicker]

tel mae

[desert cove]

another patch cycle, still no listed bugfixes for deathstalker

[slate crown]

No SnD andy over here

[desert cove]

🙂

[runic hinge]

VW to 8 new vid timeeee

[balmy condor]

my fluff video will never see the light of day

[spice spire]

Hate u

[balmy condor]

okay me write pin rq hold

[loud light]

new video: "CT do big dam"

[spice spire]

Ain’t reading that essay

[balmy condor]

I'll kick you again

[spice spire]

[vocal cypress]

hitting the TL;DR before its even written 😂

[wide ferry]

So do they not actually know that theres shit wrong w Dickstalker? Cuz this is crazy.

[vale marten]

they fixed so many things that max talked with windwalkers the other day, we need some rogue devs on his stream ASAP

[fleet pagoda]

do we? spec's okay, just hero talents are underwhelming

[spice spire]

Dickstalker is crazy

[ebon notch]

bro

how many fucking aura buffs

[slim hamlet]

fr, if CT is buffed to where it is LITERALLY troll to not take I would love it

[ebon notch]

can they give this fuckign shit spec

[runic hinge]

Same

[ebon notch]

they really are rushing this shit out the door

[spice spire]

Stfu and play it already

[ebon notch]

i might fucking have to if they keep doing this

[slim hamlet]

Like I love the cleave build, but only because it acrtually feels better, having more aoe and it feeling better would be nice

[hoary remnant]

Considering I was battling with my other rogue mate the tank during first testing. I think we had now like 50% increase at minimum

[spice spire]

Fotmbitch incoming

[ebon notch]

wth

ur retired

go to bed

[slim hamlet]

xdd

[fleet pagoda]

with the kb cap reduced cleave loses a fair bit of value

[spice spire]

Mf I’m at work still

[wide ferry]

Aura buff my balls off now fix DS and ill stop my bitching

[spice spire]

Chill ur ass or I’ll shit it for u

[raven egret]

We need all the aura buff, after 3000% we should be ok

[slim hamlet]

Well you werent reaching max cap in aoe anyways

[spice spire]

Chill it

But honestly

The typo is way funnier

[slim hamlet]

KB change MIGHT actually be a buff for the cleave build in aoe unless I am forgetting something

[fleet pagoda]

on that list of bugs, turns out you get kb stacks from hitting other targets with poison incase you want to use that information ethically

[wide ferry]

CT the new rupture

[slim hamlet]

Ofc there is all the 3rd party stuff like nightstalker

[slim hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-gif-26460616

This a new thing in prepatch/beta?

[fleet pagoda]

i asked the same, guess it's been a thing all along

[slim hamlet]

wtf

[fleet pagoda]

was in shambles wishin i knew last season lol

[slim hamlet]

Ultra pad meister for the parses

So when pin and sims Whispyr?

Also video

"Lucky Coin damage increased by 70%."

What is Lucky Coin

Oh the capstone

[fleet pagoda]

capstone I think

[spice spire]

He’s pinning rn

No point in sims

Could all change tmrw

[slim hamlet]

pfff no, this is final, we're launching like this baby

[spice spire]

Mf on vacation

[balmy condor]

More Buffs for Beta July 31st

-# Notes Here
-# Video going over thoughts

Without any cooking, fatebound is looking to be within 1% of deathstalker in single target/raids, but the tails changes put fatebound way ahead in mythic+. Dungeonslice is still pretty unsupported in sims as of now, so take that with a grain of salt. Many outstanding bugs and janky interactions impact mythic+ builds. Deathstalker and fatebound have very different damage profiles, with deathstalker heavily preferring envenom damage. Mythic+ meta in general is very volatile and this is only a very rudimentary first look.

The Meat
Baseline

• Crimson Tempest Big, nice
• Venomous Wounds energy is always a very crazy change that ripples through the entire spec. In this case however, our envenom uptime was already at 100%, so now it's morererrrerer 100% than before. Based on the current tuning of the spec and the hero talents, I don't think this actually changes much and you'll realistically get a couple more envenoms out of it and that's it. I will double check pooling/sanguine stuff but if I remember correctly from the last time I did overrides to test this stuff, this isn't enough to shift the logic. Remains to be seen.

Fatebound Huge Buffs

• Heads buff is DOUBLE, don't underestimate how good this is, heads was still a bit weak
• Tails buff is CRAZY too, especially with delivered doom buff on top
• Lucky coin buff was needed, the capstone lucky coin kinda sucked
• Fate intertwined realistically still needs more, 30% of the damage of 1/3rd of your envenoms that crit is.... not great. If envenom does 20% of your overall damage, this is worth around 1.9% dps, which is again.... not great

So where we at NOW
Slightly (probably around 3-4apm) faster, fatebound cranking much harder, otherwise business as usual. As before, it's too late now to expect anything tangible to change, we're just getting balancing at this point. Not really much to say honestly, just need to run a lot of math in the background to see if anything comes out of this

(also I'm still out of country for 2 more weeks, if you want to go test bugs and stuff and help update the sheet feel free to let know any findings)

[slim hamlet]

and there it is

[spice spire]

Needed the meat

[ebon notch]

there's no preliminary sims right whisp?

[balmy condor]

there are

but I'm not posting them

[ruby oyster]

VW buff means we play a bit faster right?

[ebon notch]

can you give a number?

[balmy condor]

no

I cannot

[ebon notch]

interesting

[spice spire]

It’s like the first line of the pin, 3-4apm faster

[balmy condor]

I refuse to feed the degeneracy machine

[ebon notch]

no degeneracy here

[raven egret]

BuT NUMBErs!

[spice spire]

Two these frauds!!!!!

[ebon notch]

just checking the landscape for prog

guild likes info

[balmy condor]

so degeneracy then

[ebon notch]

uhh, sure

[spice spire]

Okay fotmnumberslut

[ebon notch]

smh

why bully me today

[slim hamlet]

But you fed yourself smh my head mh

[balmy condor]

asking for beta numbers a month and a half in advance 15 minutes after an insanely large tuning pass of a hero talent

[ruby oyster]

i think that was edited xd but im also blind

[balmy condor]

is diabolical work

I ain't doin that

[spice spire]

“I can sacrifice my first born for 2% DPS, hell yeah”

[spice spire]

This is every day king ily

[junior aurora]

If fatebound is now the obvious choice (I may be in the minority here) but I definitely prefer that over deathstalker to give them time to rework that whole tree

[balmy condor]

I edited the part at the end

[spice spire]

Vile even

[slim hamlet]

God I hope I don't "need" to play fatebound in keys

[spice spire]

Yeah it was in the OG

[spice spire]

You need some bitches

[ebon notch]

i didnt want the post changes numbers

[slim hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/paimon-genshin-impact-gif-3908335895994298600