*low level pvp enemys
#assassination
dusk onyx
cursive knoll
Cute Whispyr in Germany? Lovely! 🙂
quiet oar
For some good ol Gartenarbeit
nova fossil
I feel weird not having subterfuge 
dusk onyx
I feel weird not having subterfuge <:monkahmm:585734084571955211>
as you can see, we have subterfuge at home
grim jay
I feel weird not having subterfuge <:monkahmm:585734084571955211>
But why tho
You dont really feel much of a difference
balmy condor
Open world is such a funny place
dusk onyx
i think i go to low level questing zones and let them wonder why mobs are just dying out of nothing
nova fossil
as you can see, we have subterfuge at home
idk, also when we use the bone spike in the rotation? after kb or what?
grim jay
idk, also when we use the bone spike in the rotation? after kb or what?
Its a passive
nova fossil
Its a passive
u right, sorry for dumb question i didnt see the new change
grim jay
u right, sorry for dumb question i didnt see the new change
There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers
grim jay
Thats why you are the dumb one
balmy condor
No Us
quiet oar
bronze pike
<:Peepo_Kiss:865254701381451846>
dusk onyx
fringe oxide
Got to love the wholesomeness
devout mist
so, what are we complaining about today?
narrow basalt
so, what are we complaining about today?
The answer is always ER.
devout mist
Fok in ST was last night
grim jay
Nah ER is great
devout mist
did we learn to accept that?
narrow basalt
Nah ER is great
No plz 😭
quiet oar
Get some outlaws in here rq
I am !?
normal mist
Chat so wholesome I got summoned
quiet oar
Chat so wholesome I got summoned
Did you read it
quiet oar
did we learn to accept that?
ER was always great
wdym
Except with old Shadow tehcnique on sub
devout mist
thats not what i was reffering to
normal mist
https://tenor.com/view/%E0%A4%B2%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%BC%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%88-%E0%A4%97%E...
This says it all xD
quiet oar
oh sorry 
quiet oar
You dont even know how i look !??
runic hinge
quiet oar
The last time i was drunk
devout mist
so i paused whispyrs video rn, and this is what i ended up with
narrow basalt
so i paused whispyrs video rn, and this is what i ended up with
Me when ER is back on assasination
quiet oar
actually at a wedding in april ?
loud hearth
The answer is always ER.
Bro wants 4 buttons only: Mutilate, Garrote, Rupture, Env 
grim jay
so i paused whispyrs video rn, and this is what i ended up with
Thats Whispyr looking at deathstalker apl
grim jay
actually at a wedding in april ?
See
narrow basalt
Bro wants 4 buttons only: Mutilate, Garrote, Rupture, Env <:HOLY:125089344018357...
I want all the buttons, except blue minigame button.
devout mist
i dont think blue minigame is that bad to play
narrow basalt
Its not bad at all. Just lame.
quiet oar
Thats Whispyr looking at deathstalker apl
False, that his look when his Grandma says they have to do Gartenarbeit
devout mist
i would replace it for something cooler
narrow basalt
Yes
devout mist
but i dont think we got that option
runic hinge
yeah imagine if we had a cool ability like sepsis
narrow basalt
Omg that would be awesome
devout mist
stepsis*
quiet oar
yeah imagine if we had a cool ability like sepsis
No thanks, i dont want to imagine that
grim jay
but i dont think we got that option
You can play cb and have lower dps
loud hearth
I think ER is one of the best Rogue abilities ever added.
Even during Sub ST times was a fun little skill. 
quiet oar
worst Covenant abilties
runic hinge
No thanks, i dont want to imagine that
s2 was a fever dream
quiet oar
narrow basalt
Imagine if we had a talent that extended our melee range
narrow basalt
I think ER is one of the best Rogue abilities ever added.
Even during Sub ST ti...
Oh lord
runic hinge
Imagine if we had a talent that extended our melee range
then it wouldnt be melee range
quiet oar
Imagine if we had a talent that extended our melee range
You outed yourself as outlaw
rn
Only Outlaws would complain about acro loss
narrow basalt
You outed yourself as outlaw
😂 I would never
quiet oar
Time to go yellow buddy
worldly sail
remember to buy the 4k gold glyph for ER so everyone knows you’re an ER fan
grim jay
ER imo tied with flag on goodness. Sbs comes dead last
Like
Er = flag >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbs
runic hinge
flag was bis
runic hinge
they should put flag where er is and made the capstone unity
grim jay
remember to buy the 4k gold glyph for ER so everyone knows you’re an ER fan <:Su...
There is one?
4k kinda cheap tho
devout mist
ER has a glyph?
narrow basalt
Ye
devout mist
no way
narrow basalt
Shadowlands poopoo glyph
worldly sail
There is one?
4k kinda cheap tho
yeah it just restores the SL blue animation
grim jay
Oh ye I remember
worldly sail
i got it
grim jay
What color is it now?
devout mist
ok im buying
narrow basalt
Makes it look coller ig, still lame 😂
grim jay
worldly sail
no color i think
they tried to purge the covenant-ness of the abilities in the talent trees
neat shell
are we eating good are we winning guys
narrow basalt
Yes, but actually no.
slate crown
What color is it now?
Baseline it is transparent. No color, you just do your backhanded slap and twist.
I went and got the glyph yesterday. So much better
grim jay
are we eating good are we winning guys
With the right mindset you are always winning.
narrow basalt
With the right mindset you are always winning.
Except when you are losing.
slate crown
The glyph is spec specific
So you need to buy it and apply it twice
Once for sub and once for sin
worldly sail
really 
grim jay
The glyph is spec specific
Luckily rogue only has 2 specs ye
slate crown
Yeah, don’t need to buy it 3 times thankfully
quiet oar
So you need to buy it and apply it twice
Thrice
narrow basalt
Luckily rogue only has 2 specs ye
I heard they are adding a 3rd one, which is pirate based.
quiet oar
there are 3 specs
grim jay
there are 3 specs
Lies
narrow basalt
Fury rogue main
rough plover
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool
narrow basalt
Huh
grim jay
I heard they are adding a 3rd one, which is pirate based.
So they are adding nothing, because the only worse thing than outlaw would be the pirate based outlaw
devout mist
oh ye luxthos updated his wa didnt he
grim jay
oh ye luxthos updated his wa didnt he
Yes but its a new entry on wago
quiet oar
So they are adding nothing, because the only worse thing than outlaw would be th...
What has Pirate based Outlaw done to you!?
narrow basalt
Everything..
grim jay
What has Pirate based Outlaw done to you!?
Hatecrimes
The cannon barrage skill
I saw that
And wanted it to die
narrow basalt
What if all of the rogue specs had shadowdance and not just sub?
grim jay
Hate at first sight
slate crown
Yes but its a new entry on wago
It’s technically the same entry, just new url cause he’s a patreon supporter so he gets fancy URLs
The discord bot commands are pointing to the right url
grim jay
It’s technically the same entry, just new url cause he’s a patreon supporter so ...
Okey, im a simple man, new URL new entry
devout mist
yea i need to go and mess with it
slate crown
grim jay
woah it tracks spatter? <:PES2_Woah:515682850234826762>
Immediately removed that
slate crown
Oh that’s fine
grim jay
The only thing I double track is debuffs for target basically
Because I have those on the WA and plater
Limited to the important ones on both tho
devout mist
oh ye it needs some changes
slate crown
Redundant information is fine as long as that redundancy isn’t causing problems. Redundancy isn’t inherently bad, it just usually is bad because it implies something else like wasted screen real estate or performance degradation.
grim jay
Redundant information is fine as long as that redundancy isn’t causing problems....
Its kinda funky if plater debuffs get a second row on anything but the main target
slate crown
i shouldnt have 6 different boss mods overlapping
I’m saying if it makes you happy you should.
hexed frost
Any WAs that track scent stacks?
quiet oar
like that yeah?
hexed frost
Most well maintained healer UI
dusk onyx
text-based game
grim jay
What are those Party frames
hexed frost
text-based game
quiet oar
Enemy cant read me, when i dont know what im doing
quiet oar
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool
slate crown
wait, its doesnt track envenom
Damn that’s wack
slate crown
<:Okay:1068635818345889923>
devout mist
ok, fixed
slate crown
Idn dog it’s sleepy time
normal mist
Idn dog it’s sleepy time
But it's 8:30 am I just started working
grim jay
Le weakaura pack
Dang couldnt stop myself from pronouncing it french
grim jay
But it's 8:30 am I just started working
9.30 get your timezones straight bozo
quiet oar
But it's 8:30 am I just started working
Its 9:30
stable coral
I was about to say
stable coral
I would instantly throw up
normal mist
Y'all live in the future
slate crown
I’m so god damn behind
quiet oar
Royal greatness is just too big and heavy
slate crown
I haven’t even slept yet
quiet oar
so it slows down time
normal mist
so it slows down time
I second this
runic hinge
I haven’t even slept yet
It’s only 3:32 you’re good
quiet oar
quiet oar
It’s only 3:32 you’re good
Imagine being 6 hours behind
wtf
Should invest in the "Time Warp"
rotund oak
mage can proc it w/o pressing it
stable coral
Nice selfreport
rotund oak
lisonna mage main confirmed?
grim jay
I wish I could timewarp to 16:30
slate crown
because time
Interesting thing about seconds https://youtube.com/shorts/O8szOGhV4uI?si=mrl9ZCLOYj5eUPjt
slate crown
lisonna mage main confirmed?
Nah, though if I were to rank my play time by class mage would be 3rd
grim jay
4th for me probably
rotund oak
2nd for me
quiet oar
Interesting thing about seconds https://youtube.com/shorts/O8szOGhV4uI?si=mrl9ZC...
Its the Place behind the first one
kinda obvious
ngl
grim jay
Rogue > DK > Monk > Mage > warr/lock would be my top 5 I guess
rotund oak
Mine is Rogue>>>>Mage
rotund oak
played a dk during legion and wrath but idk,those are significantly less time spend to the 1st two
rogue is something like 75% of the time spend
waaaay too much rogue played
quiet oar
My Rogue has prolly like 350 Days?
grim jay
My Rogue has prolly like 350 Days?
Not even a year cmon
What are you even doing
Smh my head
Id need to add 2 rogues together, so I actually dont know tbf
rotund oak
My Rogue has prolly like 350 Days?
my alliance has something like 690 iirc my horde about 400(and ive stopped playing pve on this toon)
basicly hold on gonna check
my horde has 382
quiet oar
My Rogue prolly has more than 350 days
but cant check rn
But it is my OG rogue
the first rogue i ever made
rotund oak
ive got alot of rogue alts but most of them for pvp purposes mostly
but the one i enjoyed mostly is my alliance human
bitter trout
I made my rogue in s3
rotund oak
she does the pve stuff
bitter trout
And I have…
bitter trout
53 days
quiet oar
rotund oak
53 days
u havent rly gone crazy on rogue but thats respectable
tiramil prolly played more
quiet oar
I already said
bitter trout
Ye like I say I only played it since S3
rotund oak
i have 350+ days
yeah i mean in dragonflight
bitter trout
An old MMO I used to play I have 4 characters each with 330+ days
But the game was kinda cheating cus it wouldn’t log you out for inactivity
And the amount of times I used to fall asleep while playing
stable coral
An old MMO I used to play I have 4 characters each with 330+ days
Never admit cheating
stable coral
That’s not cheating. That’s training precision jumps to improve movement during raid encounters.
quiet oar
Ye Precision jumps
aka
Jumping around, having loss of control and dying to a swirlie
(would never happen to me, i swear)
stable coral
Yeah it kinda gets wild when you spam adad 24-7 and then start jumping like a madman. Ofc not for me, I’m trained.
bitter trout
How is BSL a loss over SFP?
quiet oar
Stats
bitter trout
ye makes sense
snow hamlet
How many uptime do you set for BSL
snow hamlet
you do 50% or 60% then BSL can win i think
snow hamlet
and change your offhand weapon enhancement to wafting
bitter trout
My sim don't want that
snow hamlet
royal lantern
(i did the forbidden Stat weight)
quiet oar
https://tenor.com/view/sosoro-sploonbab-sb-spuncbo-spongebob-gif-216731519907316...
Will whisp find me in there?
quiet oar
i survived a ping where i 
at him
im invincible
Imagine him reading this and executing me rn
quiet oar
quiet oar
bitter trout
It’s orange ones you need to watch out for
normal mist
Pinging purple is the same as asking for vacations if it has no real intentions of asking for help or something
quiet oar
Vacation for my real job ? 
bitter trout
Vers without the defensive
normal mist
Move speed is a defensive
quiet oar
And Offensive
normal mist
Back when Naruto was good
bitter trout
!ban Tiramil offensive
quiet oar
Back when Naruto was good
I never watched it
Only "animes" i saw were Pokemon and Yugioh
rotund oak
<:pepe_chad:1022918986737926225>
it was dope
royal lantern
Only "animes" i saw were Pokemon and Yugioh
ah yes, a true german
comming home after school->start the TV->yugioh is running
royal lantern
jaaaaaaa
quiet oar
normal mist
Cold blooded kingsbane slaps ngl
But you're supposed to attach it to mutilate
hexed frost
No power on earth can compel me to play ER
normal mist
Or so I thought
hexed frost
But you're supposed to attach it to mutilate
I enjoy my 2.1 million kingsbane bonk
quiet oar
Isnt
normal mist
Fair enough
normal mist
Yes
hexed frost
Yes
hexed frost
Kingsbane already does a mega bonk on initial hit
hexed frost
Because an cold blooded Envenom does more !?
Not sure about envenom though. Could be better
quiet oar
Whisp wrote in his guide on cooldown
hexed frost
Link
rotund oak
CB=>KB is a pvp thing
stornger than a warrior execute
u do it to cheese ppl
but no,its bad now
quiet oar
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue
quiet oar
Wowhead
rotation
Coldblooded on cooldown
Well
Seems like initial it of KB does a ton of dmg?
rotund oak
it still does some ye
quiet oar
I think read logs wrong
rotund oak
<:Think_Eyes:718281783191273512>
coz it generates more combo pts,thus more dmg this way in pve
most likely
whispyr should have the answer on that
royal lantern
coz er owns
yeha, it owns me shit for beeing such a leftover ability that has no place 👍
quiet oar
Tryan mixing ER and Sepsis up
rotund oak
yeha, it owns me shit for beeing such a leftover ability that has no place 👍
😅
its not like we got any better
wouldnt mind cooking base rogue tree a bit tbh
hexed frost
I want to summon whisper but afraid he's sleeping..
Don't want him doing a drive-by on me in near future 💀
royal lantern
Tryan mixing ER and Sepsis up
sepsis is just garbage
er is confusing, cus like, 7cp finisher when they insits in giving us more CP every expansion AND more cp finishers are nothing special anyway?
royal lantern
I want to summon whisper but afraid he's sleeping..
Don't want him doing a driv...
its 10:48am for him
rotund oak
Stepsis is there for the opener in sub 
royal lantern
probably awake, or went full goblin mode and pulled a allnighter
quiet oar
It seems like
it doesnt matter where you use CB (as long as it is on CD)
it just has to be instant dmg
rotund oak
u go like strike=>snd=>stpsis=>strike again
actually degen spell,i dont like it either
so sub is like : strike => Snd => stepsis => Strike => Flag => Rup => sod+blades => vanish => strike
need to actually hold a ph.d on the realm to understand how sub works
quiet oar
WEll
Not really
Sin had the same thing in S2
(kind of)
But you would shiv the last tick of Sepsis
for more dmg
rotund oak
yeah but sub was still more complicated
the spec makes no sense some times
i swear
after vanish => strike u press dance => esvi => strike => cb+sectec
this is just mad
royal lantern
yeah but sub was still more complicated
??????
S2 sub was legit braindead lol
rotund oak
idk any new guy that would play this
rotund oak
??????
S2 sub was legit braindead lol
dust hello?
royal lantern
it took the cake as 1 of the easiest Specs in the game in S2 lol
nobody played dust then
rotund oak
yeah ik,just mentioning
quiet oar
after vanish => strike u press dance => esvi => strike => cb+sectec
What about this is mad
You just learn the Shadow dance sequence
and literally repeat it
every dance
And the dance sequence is the same since DF start
royal lantern
And the dance sequence is the same since DF start
drifting wing
no more backstabbing in shadow dance?
grim jay
and literally repeat it
People cant
Stuff that makes sense isnt good for many and so are sequences
rotund oak
And the dance sequence is the same since DF start
ye it wasnt,previously u dance=>flag=>rup=>stab=>evis=>stirke=>cb+sectec
😉
quiet oar
No because you would still Sectech as second finisher
quiet oar
But whatever, it literally is the same all the time
Just like KB sequence was always the same
for Assa
rotund oak
also u dont vanish after ur sod+blades either
u vanish after sex tec
so its literally different
quiet oar
Sex tec 
quiet oar
Imo, Sub and Sin were pretty scripted
and scripted gameplay is way easier (for me)
Because i can literally repeat it every pull
rotund oak
People cant get it straight
there is a reason for that,its a complicated sequence.In order to understand why u dont flag inside dance u have to udnerstand that the time u have while dancing isnt all that much for a good execution(as in sending sectec fully buffed and all)
also the timers with dust need management 😉
grim jay
there is a reason for that,its a complicated sequence.In order to understand why...
So you mean you have to understand that dance is a cooldown for example
rotund oak
So you mean you have to understand that dance is a cooldown for example <:PogO:1...
i mean in terms of actually understanding the functionality of the spec as a total
thats how most ppl learn to play
grim jay
Man.. subs opener is too much for me 😭
Just have it open on your phone or something while you still practice
narrow basalt
why are u scared friend
Sub and sin for me are the coolest specs in the game. But sub is just so much more complicated 😂
rotund oak
But I highly doubt it
idk,is there any other way u learn something? 😛
grim jay
idk,is there any other way u learn something? 😛
Most people wanna do the minmax rotation immediately and just try to memorize when to do what
Instead of actually understanding from the basics up
rotund oak
Most people wanna do the minmax rotation immediately and just try to memorize wh...
ah thats not understanding
thats just parroting
i mean actual understanding
yup
grim jay
ah thats not understanding
Some just think it is but it doesnt work out if something is a bit more complex than ret
rotund oak
Some just think it is but it doesnt work out if something is a bit more complex ...
cant agree more
anything more complex than the ret pattern
is monkas
rotund oak
bm doesnt have a rotation
press hard kill command
its funny though,coz it pumps
(recently nerfed in beta btw)
narrow basalt
Unironically its a good class for beginners, but holy they do a lot of damage as well with 2 buttoms 😂
narrow basalt
its funny though,coz it pumps
Yeah they do.
rigid tartan
I liked the dm stacks during dance in Sub gameplay it was easy enough but was a fun interaction during every cd burst. But I really dislike the concept of 1 minute windows. I think it should rather be around 30/45 second windows or so and make it naturally align with a 3 minute shadowblades. Ditch the concept of dust cuz it's very weird and feels like devaluing the actual cds.
In general less frequent cds but more impactful ones feels more fun gameplay to me. Like give us a big long cd gameplay that isnt braindead to execute but big payoff. Of course need to scratch everything above for m+ but maybe there should be total different builds in the game for that maybe even different trees
narrow basalt
Have you seen pre-patch survival yet?? Top of EVERY damage meter I see them in.
rotund oak
Have you seen pre-patch survival yet?? Top of EVERY damage meter I see them in.
im testing DK now,ive seen enough from rogue and mage
narrow basalt
im testing DK now,ive seen enough from rogue and mage
DK is hella fun, and in tww both dk and warrior are gonna be awesome.
spice surge
I liked the dm stacks during dance in Sub gameplay it was easy enough but was a ...
Blades is 2 minutes, the burst windows are every 30s already, also this is the assa channel
narrow basalt
We got deathstalker 💀
rigid tartan
sry was commenting on the thread some minutes ago here xd
rigid tartan
Blades is 2 minutes, the burst windows are every 30s already, also this is the a...
oh damn thats 2 years old change even haha
vestal wren
assassiantion has technically a lot similarities to subtlety now in terms of cooldowns
balmy condor
Except no dust no cdr and no 1;30
grim jay
Sin channel is his yard
frail iris
vestal wren
Except no dust no cdr and no 1;30
i love subtleties 1 min 30 cooldowns we use every 2 minutes
balmy condor
Anhänger is leer
vestal wren
you had sepsis before tww
balmy condor
vestal wren
so...
balmy condor
i love subtleties 1 min 30 cooldowns we use every 2 minutes
Yeah very exciting
grim jay
Anhänger is leer
Auch alles sachgemäß entsorgt?
balmy condor
Definitely not confusing for a new player
vestal wren
intuitive and natural, like all things rogue
frail iris
hast du das formularblatt 184 ausgefüllt?
balmy condor
Auch alles sachgemäß entsorgt?
Sämtliche pflanzentöpfe entsorgt 
hartplastik wie’s sich gehört
spice surge
Definitely not confusing for a new player
On the bright side dust looks kinda dead for keys
balmy condor
intuitive and natural, like all things rogue
Ofc
frail iris
balmy condor
On the bright side dust looks kinda dead for keys
Oh is that the bright side
grim jay
Oh is that the bright side
Yes. And even brighter is that you will have all the m+ andys in here
I can feel it already
frail iris
i found my rogue spec for tww... feral 
balmy condor
Yes. And even brighter is that you will have all the m+ andys in here
But how could you play assa in keys without dance???
Assa will never be viable without stealth
quiet oar
So true
grim jay
But how could you play assa in keys without dance???
Shadowmeld for restealths if tank bad
Surely
balmy condor
Surely
quiet oar
Espeically when you dont get restealths
spice surge
Oh is that the bright side
Jealousy
Turning saints into the sea
Swimming through sick lullabies
Choking on your alibi
But it's just the price I pay
Destiny is calling me
Open up my eager eyes
'Cause I'm Mr. Brightside
slim hamlet
I mean surely night elf is actually best m+ spec right?
Even if you don't need restealths for a race spell it must be bis
rotund oak
<:suske:905579708886962206>
irrelevant question but how do u know whispyr had gardening to do?Are u a next-door one?
balmy condor
Had a YouTube comment say something like “well guess blizzard wants us to use caustic spatter now that dance is gone, assa sucks again”
And I was like
OOOOOO
frail iris
gtg
balmy condor
HES SO CLOSE TO GETTING IT
slim hamlet
Had a YouTube comment say something like “well guess blizzard wants us to use ca...
Bro didn't use spatter before?
grim jay
Had a YouTube comment say something like “well guess blizzard wants us to use ca...
Wait for the comments on future content. Mr Z is cooking with double vanish
slim hamlet
I wonder if double vanish is bad enough to be used in our min-minning builds
rigid tartan
could also get a cold blood like button that empowers next Garrote & Rupture/Bleeds application instead of stealth interaction currently
grim jay
I wonder if double vanish is bad enough to be used in our min-minning builds
Double vanish CB no IC
slim hamlet
could also get a cold blood like button that empowers next Garrote & Rupture/Ble...
Yea all people really want is another cold blood ability
slim hamlet
Yes
quiet oar
I mean
potent raven
u guys been using spatter at all lol
slim hamlet
Deathmark? Caustic spatter? IC?
Babe wake up, it's time to go kill some alliance scum in Stormsong Valley
slim hamlet
u guys been using spatter at all lol
what
rigid tartan
Yea all people really want is another cold blood ability <:starege:9231972720644...
kinda like old IC except it also empowers, if that deletes the age old restealth "problem" in m+ that's better to me
slim hamlet
I liked old IC
Just too long CD
But what I meant with that message is another button that doesn't exist besides a line in a macro is bad
grim jay
kinda like old IC except it also empowers, if that deletes the age old restealth...
It will never stop existing brother
Als long as you have stealth benefits
There will be people crying
No matter how abysmal it is
royal lantern
could also get a cold blood like button that empowers next Garrote & Rupture/Ble...
thats such a ridicolous bad idea lol
"button that does nothing except making another button stronger" is the pinnacle example of pointless button bloat for the sake of it
grim jay
"button that does nothing except making another button stronger" is the pinnacle...
Depends in how its done
I like the idea of imbuements in diablo for example
slim hamlet
"button that does nothing except making another button stronger" is the pinnacle...
No button bloat if it's just a macro xdd
grim jay
"stronger" might change function aswell
slim hamlet
Like what we thought RIGHT when fatebound was revealed, where you would use CB very intentionally
That makes it interesting, but otherwise CB is just macro really
If you could snapshot a bleed with it or someshit I would like it
slim hamlet
rigid tartan
thats such a ridicolous bad idea lol
it's just an alternative to stealth interaction in m+ that I personally find better/lesser of two evils. I'm not a fan of stealth benefits
agile abyss
!pooling
prisma monolithBOT
Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back
- If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
- Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
- Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
- With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use
slim hamlet
I would definitely prefer active IC without dance, unless it would keep the long CD
But if you feel like it's a huge problem, just go nelf
Wait so we actually playing around exsang when we lose tier?
fierce sigil
Is it possible that the raidtests yesterday were buggy? 😂
royal lantern
Wait so we actually playing around exsang when we lose tier?
exsang?
royal lantern
and ofc IC would get a long CD then lol, what do you guys expect
spice spire
balmy condor
I want IC passive and 8 target
And also garrote should be 15% of my single target damage
And rupture too
slim hamlet
I want IC passive and 8 targets without needing stealth and it should also apply KB to everyone
possibly also DM
slim hamlet
Finally
balmy condor
IC should apply every damage over time effect instantly for free passively to all targets in the dungeon
slim hamlet
Validation
slim hamlet
IC should apply every damage over time effect instantly for free passively to al...
and CB should work with it all and snapshot
rotund oak
<a:Aggy:998294013197176952>
balmy condor
True
unborn yacht
IC should apply every damage over time effect instantly for free passively to al...
Didn’t affliction used to have something like this? Dot 1 target and then insta spread it to all nearby targets?
balmy condor
Didn’t affliction used to have something like this? Dot 1 target and then insta ...
We have that too
Caustic spatter
slim hamlet
That aint a dot lil bro
balmy condor
So its better then
slim hamlet
All dot specs got aoe spread
unborn yacht
Caustic spatter
Not the same thing I’m thinking of.
balmy condor
Holy poggers
balmy condor
Not the same thing I’m thinking of.
Basically the same effect
unborn yacht
I just want auto attack energy generation.
balmy condor
That exists, dashing scoundrel
unborn yacht
Basically the same effect
Not really. Caustic doesn’t spread dots, just damage.
slim hamlet
Not really. Caustic doesn’t spread dots, just damage.
We got IC
balmy condor
Technicality innit
They get one button dot everything
We get dot everything a bit slower and then still hit everything
slim hamlet
Just not one button like the other dot specs, we had that but got changed to passive
balmy condor
Best of both worlds
slim hamlet
We're bringing back active multidotting with dance removal
What a great day to be alive
normal mist
Blizzard
gusty mirage
Who is stopping you
Ur mom
unborn yacht
Change crimson tempest to cause garrote and rupture on 5 nearby targets. So I don’t have to manually re-dot targets.
slim hamlet
Change crimson tempest to cause garrote and rupture on 5 nearby targets. So I do...
I hecking love just not playing the spec
What do you have left then? mut to spatter, fok + envenom spam
We subtlety
austere sorrel
Do lower keys where mobs don't outlive your initial bleeds 👍
slim hamlet
Do lower keys where mobs die before you got bleeds up 👍
austere sorrel
Find the sweet spot
royal lantern
Do lower keys where mobs die before you got bleeds up 👍
dont do keys 👍
slim hamlet
For energy and setting up
static glacier
I hecking love just not playing the spec
lowkey
that's litterally what the game is becoming
healers don't want to heal, just press aoe spells and dps, tanks don't want to tank, just dps in a different role and dps don't want to use their spells to multidot, we all want shadow crash style dots. Look at afflocks, they've been asking for vile taint to be shorter cd than agony duration forever
heck, people don't even want aoe spells anymore, they want blade flurry / psychic link / ignite style free aoe from doing st
and blizzard is actively supporting this
austere sorrel
Well it does feel like an awkward amount of time when agony falls off vs vile taint coming back up doesn't it
static glacier
yes, I'm not saying im against less friction in general
austere sorrel
You reapply the curses the vile taint is back up right after you do
static glacier
just that this is what is happening game design-wise
is it right or wrong to me depends on how much complexity they want in class' rotations vs encounter design
unborn yacht
heck, people don't even want aoe spells anymore, they want blade flurry / psychi...
That’s because the awful way some of these trees are built. You either have to chose ST or AOE. And now that both fort and tyr will be on keys, it’s gonna get worse.
static glacier
if they keep making difficult fights they need to chill with class complexity and vice versa
static glacier
That’s because the awful way some of these trees are built. You either have to c...
the core problem is that they created too many classes without trade offs, so if you're one of the have nots, the afflocks and ret paladins of the world you're going to be sad if your class isnt' overtuned bc you're shit
imagine having to press anything but your st spender and losing dmg on ur prio target to aoe
slim hamlet
healers don't want to heal, just press aoe spells and dps, tanks don't want to t...
to be fair I understand afflictions problem
Because they have to multidot, but then the aoe applier comes off CD like right after, so it's awkward
static glacier
to be fair I understand afflictions problem
I'd argue assassination actually has it worse
atleast affli is ranged, sure it's 4 globals of pressing agony
but it's an option
gl refreshing garotte on anything above 2 targets
slim hamlet
It's also just that blade flurry and aoe applier just simply makes the specs better
Like in viability terms
Much more flexible and u can't fuck it up as much
Also more prio dmg which is almost always very good
static glacier
separate viability from gameplay for a second
static glacier
don't you think that the tuning on spells is more favourable if they're harder to use
unborn yacht
I definitely like spatter better than spamming whirlwind on my fury warrior every 4 globals.
static glacier
look at sub, iirc they nerfed rupture when they made the extra ruptures smarter
slim hamlet
If not I don't understand why you would play the single spec in the game that has the niche of multi dotting
static glacier
or realz was talking about it
slim hamlet
I don't remember rup being nerfed for sub, but maybe
static glacier
let me find the message for you
slim hamlet
Realz is sometimes cooking in here
slim hamlet
I definitely like spatter better than spamming whirlwind on my fury warrior ever...
Me too
Pretty sure he was talking about how you used to use CT as an aoe finisher not as a bleed
Instead of the blade flurry way
Also, I just realised, with the KB nerf PI won't be anywhere near as good for us right?
static glacier
Also, I just realised, with the KB nerf PI won't be anywhere near as good for us...
probably not but it's still a relative thing, devoker doesn't need pi due to no more chasing extra extensions, they're guaranteed. UH could be playing 90s no army build due to horseman proc on cd send
and demo is a 1 min less bursty class
a lot of the top pi abusers have their abuse cases nerfed
slim hamlet
They made aug buffs much easier to use, but that doesn't mean they nerfed aug
royal lantern
Also, I just realised, with the KB nerf PI won't be anywhere near as good for us...
yes, you can cap kb without Pi now, not the #1pi target anymore (god bless)
slim hamlet
I think they only look at the top tier stuff, and top tier players can already use the spec well
static glacier
They made aug buffs much easier to use, but that doesn't mean they nerfed aug
thing is they did nerf it
compared to .1.5
slim hamlet
thing is they did nerf it
Yes but there is no shot it was because of that
grim jay
I wonder if there will be one single day where noone mentions realz
slim hamlet
I don't buy it at all
static glacier
not having the tight window to pres > pres > might before 1st one falls is a good change but it also makes it easier
static glacier
Yes but there is no shot it was because of that
yeah spec was grossly broken
royal lantern
I wonder if there will be one single day where noone mentions realz <:PogO:11601...
its so cringe lol, people are so obsesed
static glacier
its so cringe lol, people are so obsesed
I mean who else can we use as a source for how they approach design
rest of them are notably not communicative
grim jay
I mean who else can we use as a source for how they approach design
Just use Blizzard, because they are a company and in said company they have teams
static glacier
obviously realz is just the face of the team we see, there's plenty others working with him
grim jay
No single decision
slim hamlet
Just use Blizzard, because they are a company and in said company they have team...
We were talking about a thing he literally sent here
Not just "oh he made this choice"
static glacier
^
slim hamlet
Better to see what was written first :)
static glacier
I remember him discussing fixing a bug with sub rupture and how there might have to be compensation nerfs if it pans out to being too strong
grim jay
Better to see what was written first :)
I wasnt specificly talking about you, so no need to feel offended
static glacier
the bug was related to how smart the 2nd rupture was
slim hamlet
I remember him discussing fixing a bug with sub rupture and how there might have...
That sounds like crazy work to me
grim jay
yes, you can cap kb without Pi now, not the #1pi target anymore (god bless)
Still kinda big tho
Just less big
static glacier
if affliction got the spriest shadow crash treatment they would have to nerf their damage
otherwise the spec has just gained 4 globals every time they need to use taint to reapply that's not after darkglare
slim hamlet
I understand if it made you able to do shit you couldn't before, but if it just makes it easier for players that can't do it (AKA not people doing super high keys) I don't see how that means you nerf it
slim hamlet
if affliction got the spriest shadow crash treatment they would have to nerf the...
Yes in that situation probably
static glacier
I understand if it made you able to do shit you couldn't before, but if it just ...
it would raise the average performance
slim hamlet
Because you get so many more free GCDs
static glacier
since there's essentially less margin to fail
so avg player, who makes some mistakes would see a big improvement compared to manual agonies
eg. theres nothing in game or intuitive to tell you it's worth maintaining 4 agonies
slim hamlet
it would raise the average performance
Since when have they balanced around that?
static glacier
for shard gen
grim jay
Idk I dont think making essential parts easy is good
static glacier
Since when have they balanced around that?
since ever I'm pretty sure
there are not that many cases where avg performance massively deviates from very top end
aug is a notable outlier
arcane used to be but they kept dumbing down the spec
slim hamlet
Imagine you're good at the game, can do everything well, then the spec gets a change making other people able to do what you're doing, and you get nerfed because of that
That sounds like crazy work
I understand in a game like league
static glacier
thing is it's easier for you too
slim hamlet
not wow
static glacier
since as afflock if i dont have to 24/7 watch agony timers i can focus on other things
grim jay
since ever I'm pretty sure
They most of the time balanced around outliers and highs/lows from what it looked like tbf
slim hamlet
Yes yes I have said I agree with afflock
ofc you would need to nerf afflock if it had 100% uptime on aoe applier
static glacier
They most of the time balanced around outliers and highs/lows from what it looke...
when I mean highs / lows I was talking about player skill
slim hamlet
you get so many free GCDs
But if we talking stuff like smart rupture and smart IC then I don't
static glacier
the question boils down to
should "friction" exist in the game
or should we make ret paladins out of most specs
balmy condor
Friction is important
slim hamlet
Yes
balmy condor
Always has been
static glacier
thing is there's good friction and bad friction imo
slim hamlet
If you couldn't always be better at the game I wouldn't play
static glacier
some challenges feel fun and satisfying to attempt / succeed at
while others feel menial / chore-like
using the affli example I would say thats one of the bad types of challenge
slim hamlet
Good friction is needing to be able to multi dot, bad friction is stuff like when double rupture wasn't smart imo
grim jay
or should we make ret paladins out of most specs
Youd see many people leaving if they did that Id imagine
static glacier
while trying to maximise BTEs inside subterfuge for OL would be the more fun type
static glacier
Youd see many people leaving if they did that Id imagine
yeah Id imagine so, then again classic is super popular and everything is super simple there
slim hamlet
One is a part of the spec and learning it, the other can be seen as that too, but it's just frustrating for newer players because it's more to think about AND frustrating for higher keyers where you aren't able to move as perfectly as you want + there are 20 mobs
grim jay
yeah Id imagine so, then again classic is super popular and everything is super ...
Depends in what you call super popular ig, were there ever actual numbers?
Also most classic people go there if theres nothing to do on retail as a stopgap
static glacier
Depends in what you call super popular ig, were there ever actual numbers?
no idea, I just see it a lot higher than retail on twitch in terms of viewer numbers
grim jay
Atleast those that I know
slim hamlet
Depends in what you call super popular ig, were there ever actual numbers?
Classic appeals to a whole different kind of player
Not saying you can't like it as retail gamer
grim jay
no idea, I just see it a lot higher than retail on twitch in terms of viewer num...
That largely depends on who is streaming tho
slim hamlet
But it's a different game
balmy condor
Classic is insanely popular
royal lantern
yeah Id imagine so, then again classic is super popular and everything is super ...
classic had 1 big hype wave at launch, but then died down a good chunk
slim hamlet
no idea, I just see it a lot higher than retail on twitch in terms of viewer num...
Yea it's always on top besides some few retail streamers and when new stuff happens in retail
Classic is meant to always be played, but retail is much more seasonal
royal lantern
and ye, its basically a different game anyway
slim hamlet
Just like me fr
grim jay
Still smaller than retail id guess
balmy condor
You would guess yeah
grim jay
Maybe not currently
balmy condor
Keep guessing
slim hamlet
My guess is that is because retailers are much more likely to play classic in offseason, while most classic gamers likely don't touch retail
and you get classic "for free" when you are retail gamer
rare jackal
classic is also better for casual players imo
royal lantern
classic is also better for casual players imo
lmao no
grim jay
Yeah was about to say that aswell
royal lantern
not in the modern world
balmy condor
rare jackal
not in the modern world
actually especially compared to modern retail
slim hamlet
Retail is the most confusing game for any beginners
rare jackal
and its not even close
slim hamlet
the fuck you talking about no
Tried to make a friend play retail and his head exploded
royal lantern
classic has an insane "anti-casual" community that goes beserk the second you dont play 150% perfect
grim jay
classic has an insane "anti-casual" community that goes beserk the second you do...
People being stupid doesnt have anything to do with the actual game tho
rare jackal
classic has an insane "anti-casual" community that goes beserk the second you do...
the classic community can be dog but that doesnt change the fact that the game is way more approachable for new players
slim hamlet
Also idk if it was just because it was hardcore, but I have never had people explain shit as well and nice for a beginner in any game besides that
First time playing classic then
rare jackal
And you dont think retail does that too?
also this lol
slim hamlet
Just my experience
balmy condor
classic has an insane "anti-casual" community that goes beserk the second you do...
As opposed to the insane “pro-casual” community in wow that definitely doesn’t go berserk when you don’t play perfectly
Tryan hit the bong one too many times today
slim hamlet
I have never been flamed nor had someone quit during an m+ in retail 
grim jay
As opposed to the insane “pro-casual” community in wow that definitely doesn’t g...
We atleast have the m+ community to balance those out
royal lantern
As opposed to the insane “pro-casual” community in wow that definitely doesn’t g...
hey, i never got kicked from a dungeon while leveling because "its a troll spec"
rare jackal
Tryan hit the bong one too many times today
its not only him
i had like 4 people jump down my throat last time suggesting that classic leveling is better for casual players than retail lol
balmy condor
grim jay
Leveling is shit anywhere
royal lantern
Leveling is shit anywhere
based and real
balmy condor
And MAPLESTORY
slim hamlet
its not only him
i had like 4 people jump down my throat last time suggesting th...
tbf that is kinda cooked take
balmy condor
grim jay
And MAPLESTORY
Is it a good leveling experience?
balmy condor
tbf that is kinda cooked take
He’s correct though
slim hamlet
If you dont use addons you're gonna be searching wowhead 20 times a minute to find out where to go if you never played before
retail is brainnumbing yes
bronze pike
or should we make ret paladins out of most specs
Ret has friction :)
slim hamlet
But classic would be frustrating
balmy condor
Is it a good leveling experience?
Not really, it’s an Asian mmo you spend most of your time sitting in a map grinding 
but they are copying the ffxiv main story system in the next big update
bronze pike
Nah nah
rare jackal
If you dont use addons you're gonna be searching wowhead 20 times a minute to fi...
classic is set up to be fun from lvl 1
retail fast tracks you to max level (cause 10 years of expansion bloat cooked leveling)
bronze pike
Two sources of friction actually
static glacier
Ret has friction :)
In what terms chief
slim hamlet
classic is set up to be fun from lvl 1
retail fast tracks you to max level (caus...
yes true, but there is not much depth, and it's quite slow which is definitely not a good thing for us zoomers that are brainrotted by tiktok and shorts
bronze pike
In what terms chief
Auto attack tracking for csaa so you don’t munch resources, dr racking so you don’t munch resources and debuff
slim hamlet
In retail you get new shit every 2 seconds
royal lantern
Not really, it’s an Asian mmo you spend most of your time sitting in a map grind...
aka "spend 20+ hours walking from NPC A to NPC B and listen to dialoge, every 30min you have a couple generic "kill 8 enemys" quest"?
bronze pike
Hopo gains value in tww
royal lantern
grim jay
Not really, it’s an Asian mmo you spend most of your time sitting in a map grind...
Ah alright, but tbf the asians are getting better at that stuff. Like in bdo you get seasonal servers with capped gear and XP Boni to level a char every now and then.
balmy condor
aka "spend 20+ hours walking from NPC A to NPC B and listen to dialoge, every 30...
No, most things teleport
rare jackal
yes true, but there is not much depth, and it's quite slow which is definitely n...
the lack of depth makes it more approachable
yes it is slow, and it could be a tad faster
doesnt change the fact its a tailored experience from lvl 1 as opposed to retail
bronze pike
Second source of friction is “utility” and when to use it. Best way to tell between a animal and a actual ret with a brain is utility usage
balmy condor
They’re just giga compressing the exp and explicitly stating your class quests
slim hamlet
the lack of depth makes it more approachable
yes it is slow, and it could be a t...
I think the BIS leveling is season of discovery for beginners
bronze pike
sadly most ret players are single brain celled starfish
slim hamlet
Classic world but with more interesting abilities and also get stuff faster
royal lantern
sadly most ret players are single brain celled starfish
hey
dont insult seafruits like that
slim hamlet
At least s1, only played that one
balmy condor
aka "spend 20+ hours walking from NPC A to NPC B and listen to dialoge, every 30...
Can also get a teleport rock for not a lot and then just teleport everywhere you want
So
Kinda free
Teleport hold Y kill shit turn it in
Repeat
slim hamlet
Fact
bronze pike
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392807916543017000/1265599317515960364/im...
Actually true
God I miss my old rp group
Great times
balmy condor
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392807916543017000/1265599317515960364/im...
Are you a fifteen year old boy with a hero complex?
Outlaw rogue
bronze pike
Paladin main characters 
bronze pike
Two turned to deathknights
slim hamlet
Outlaw and fury warrior
royal lantern
Are you a fifteen year old boy ~~with a hero complex~~?
Outlaw rogue
nah, the OG immage is
"are you an asshole?"
yes->rogue
bronze pike
And the last paladin lost a arm (me)
slim hamlet
nah, the OG immage is
"are you an asshole?"
yes->rogue
"You like loot?"
Yes -> Rogue
slim hamlet
And the last paladin lost a arm (me) <:BearSmile:1132045065196417204>
Got damn, you guys really must have sucked
All L's
balmy condor
nah, the OG immage is
"are you an asshole?"
yes->rogue
Are you a fifteen year old boy?
Free ticks to a Drake concert featuring Diddy and R Kelly
bronze pike
Got damn, you guys really must have sucked
unironically
The biggest W of the group was
One of the paladins being named “yurbal’sak”
balmy condor
https://tenor.com/view/kurt-angle-stare-100-yard-stare-meme-gif-2514364594916299...
It’s getting hot in here, so take off all your clothes
Wait that was Nelly
slim hamlet
One of the paladins being named “yurbal’sak”
That aint no paladin, that's a void creature
bronze pike
And grown to be stupid important for the longest time so she had to shorten his name to yurbal
But we knew
We all knew
rare jackal
Are you a fifteen year old boy?
Free ticks to a Drake concert featuring Diddy a...
and here i am getting reprimanded for edgy jokes 😑
(good one btw)
slim hamlet
We all knew
WAIT I DIDNT EVEN NOTICE
balmy condor
and here i am getting reprimanded for edgy jokes 😑
Wrong color buddy get power tripped absolute bozo
slim hamlet
Until you said it right then
balmy condor
slim hamlet
Whispyr truly in his xdd era