assassination

[marble hemlock]

we wiped for another 50 or 60 pulls

he comes in

first pull, dead

[raven egret]

Well that's quite clear what the difference was

[marble hemlock]

why do none of the servers im on have a yepcum emote

[gusty mirage]

wtf

[waxen oyster]

So wait why do warbands

show chars from different realms

[slate crown]

still doesn't interact with Deathstalker with latest build

[gusty mirage]

Can it be Friday already so I can wish you a happy birthmas??

[raven egret]

Deathstalker has more sense than to involve ER in it's shenanigans, ER does not help funnel!

[slate crown]

[cerulean nest]

is this buff the known buff or a new one

[waxen oyster]

ok the new spellbook Ui

is ugly

[runic hinge]

Idk. I think it looks fine it’s just huge

[cerulean nest]

it minimizes by half if you open another pane with it up

like the character pane

[rotund oak]

Damn Eleem was benchwarming?

[waxen oyster]

Yeah it's excessive

[runic hinge]

Yeah agreed. Like I’ll never be able to spell book something I forgot in combat again because it’ll just blind me

[fresh kelp]

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:

• Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
• You can add in some sanguine/rupture value from carnage, but chaining allows for higher uptime and smoother energy overall, eliminating a lot of ramp at the start of a pull
• This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths (chain heavy spiteful weeks are only about -30% on stealths)
• You still have vanish which gives you plenty of options to get your stealth effects
• This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years

[junior aurora]

like 6 years ago now lol

[visual kelp]

did they remove shadow dance for sin?

[severe jacinth]

Is rogue good yet

[runic hinge]

Yes

[runic hinge]

Always has been

[visual kelp]

ty

[rotund oak]

wait u were in seli's guild as well?

can remember watching seli streaming n stuff

[junior aurora]

no

[rotund oak]

cant remember the names

ah cool

[junior aurora]

but uunat was like 6 years ago lol

[rotund oak]

yeah it was

such cool days man,BFA was awesome

[waxen oyster]

Tbh I dont remember, were you supposed to spam envs during the 1min window ones?

or still care about tier ideally

kbs

[copper monolith]

hows prepatch for rogues?

[drowsy lotus]

Idk why this is coming off so matter of fact. #1 Assas rogue doesn’t agree with you.

[waxen oyster]

#1 what

[shy pecan]

Huh?

[drowsy lotus]

Chain pulling kills so many resealth., and with shadow dance gone a second vanish helps

[waxen oyster]

Another rio score matters person oh no

[drowsy lotus]

Zerocool, #1 Assas rogue #2 overall on stream today mentioned that the resealth was more valuable for keys, even if it sims slightly worst it feels better and helps overall

[waxen oyster]

That guy has beyond cooked takes

[signal bear]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[runic hinge]

Always spam in cds

[waxen oyster]

Yeah i figured in the dm one just never confirmed the other

[drowsy lotus]

I mean refute the logic then don’t say “lol he has bad takes” why would his take matter less than yours? If he’s #1 Assas rogue it speaks to him understanding the class no? Or we live only in sims

[runic hinge]

I watched zero press kb after dance for two weeks after the rework.

[waxen oyster]

You're going off #1 by raiderio

as if that's a metric of skill

[runic hinge]

He plays a lot but he can be cooked

[void mesa]

You brought 0 logic and 0 argument outside parroting someone without even understanding anything

[drowsy lotus]

^ what

[runic hinge]

I’m not even saying he’s wrong but he’s not exactly been a bastion of knowledge

[short flint]

im not sure the 7 pt cb works for anything. from what i can tell 6cp and 7cp rupture tick for the same amount

[runic hinge]

When he was missing 10% dam on kb for weeks

[waxen oyster]

The bot literally explains why restealths aren't as important as you think.

[runic hinge]

It’s duration not damage

[fleet pagoda]

why not consider perspective? for higher keys you need all the damage you can get. for most people activating IC isn't as important. seems like these things can co exist

[short flint]

the tooltip says 5% more dmg on the talent

[runic hinge]

5% damage to all finishers regardless

[short flint]

if i get rid of the talent and do a 6cp rupture it does the same dmg as a 6cp rupture with the talent

[runic hinge]

Then that’s a bug with the talent lol

[short flint]

thats what i was commenting on 😛

[waxen oyster]

my rupture tooltip

[drowsy lotus]

Call him cooked all you want the difference in the sims zero showed were 0.5% dps, his point was that sims don’t line up to what actually happens in m+. So if the sims shows 0.5% delta doesn’t it make sense to try the alternate if you miss out on a lot of resealths?

[waxen oyster]

legit went down when i talented out of sanguine

[void mesa]

Are you suggesting telling your tank not to chain pull as a solution?

[runic hinge]

That’s not what I got from your comment but anyways more combo points add duration. The 5% would apply regardless of the amount of combo points used to finish. If it’s not applying when you talent into it that’s a bug

[runic hinge]

Link sims

[short flint]

yeh ill test it with envenom prob be a clearer indication. it should do extra dmg for the 7cp and an extra 5% aswell yeh

[runic hinge]

Also extra vanish charge is 1 vanish

In the entire key

[waxen oyster]

Sanguine vs no sanguine

[runic hinge]

The charges don’t cooldown independently

[drowsy lotus]

Also this is kind of laughable if being rank 1 io doesn’t dictate a minimum of skill then idk what does.

[waxen oyster]

indicates time played in keys

[willow vine]

Dude he runs keys from like 8 AM to 2 AM

[runic hinge]

Yes but instead of 14 vanishes you’re getting 15

Let’s be clear it’s one vanish in the whole key

[void mesa]

Being #1 on a dog spec is like, being good and having a team let you grief them

[runic hinge]

Hey yo ease up on my spec bro

[void mesa]

He's good, but is he factually the best? Gonna be a hard debate my guy

We had the debate in vdh disc forever, the entire top50 played the rotation wrong but were just good at the game, not at the spec/class

[runic hinge]

I’m not saying the dude is bad but the take is cooked

[void mesa]

Someone had to tell you, im sorry 😦

[drowsy lotus]

Let me try to find it I ran it earlier

[waxen oyster]

You can be a good player without knowing "everything"

Just because something feels better to you doesnt mean it is better.

[runic hinge]

In a 28 minute key if you vanish on cd it’ll be the difference of 14 or 15 vanishes. They do not cd independently. It’s one vanish. You get one extra restealth and a 5 minute sim doesn’t equal a 30 minute dungeon

[void mesa]

2nd vanish could be good if you have a specific plan for your comp/dungeon and need it for the silence at a key time and can either pool for it or keep it until then tho

But ultra niche

[runic hinge]

Okay so in a 5 minute sim you’ll get 4 vanishes. But if you don’t take the talent you’ll get 3. It’s not some super big brain thing

[drowsy lotus]

But don’t you get more vanishes mid pulls to spread more ruptures? And dmg windows

[runic hinge]

No

You get 1 more

1 extra charge

That waits to cd until the first one is back

So if you vanish on cd

It’s 1 extra

[fleet pagoda]

you can vanish once per minute on the minute with two charges

[runic hinge]

In a whole key

[waxen oyster]

If it were so big I feel you could make a much bigger case for meld....

lmao

[runic hinge]

You can’t

They do not cd independently

You wait for the first to come back before the second does

Same as shiv

[fleet pagoda]

true, yeah. doing that would just front load it and be back to square one

gotcha

[runic hinge]

This is why the guy with #1 io needs to be taken with a grain of salt

Because he says oh yeah so many restealths but it’s 1

[drowsy lotus]

Ok that makes sense to me, the timers of the cd only works once a charge is filled essentially so you don’t exactly get double vanishes just 1 more really and then the cd is effectively the same?

[fleet pagoda]

maybe, like Jaded said if there's a plan it makes sense. and on keys that high it's feasible but doesn't sound like his justification

[runic hinge]

Yes

[mint imp]

you dont have 100% combat time with large packs in a key though especially with pugs. if youre fighting 3 mobs at the end of a pack and your vanish comes off cd youre not gonna press that when the mobs are going to die in 10 seconds anyways. i think they guy that playes assa 16 hours a day knows what hes talking about

[drowsy lotus]

The issue he mentioned was chain pulling

[void mesa]

In a weird way, if you dont vanish on cd (like it comes near the end and you hold it) you get value from getting the 2nd charge to cool off and may, at best, get 2 extra uses in a whole key. Anymore and its just bad missplay

[fleet pagoda]

very hard to justify throwing two talent points into the void for it lol

[void mesa]

Yes, but mostly no

Playing alot =/= playing perfect/knowing well

[runic hinge]

If you vanish at :30 seconds in and then 1 minute in. Your first vanish comes back at 2:30 in. Your second comes back when???? 4:30

[void mesa]

Chain pulling is a rogue issue, to a degree. There's no real fixing it, it's just part of life

[mint imp]

hes doing s priest overall in 19+ keys. but yeah, the randoms on discord are correct 👍

[drowsy lotus]

Fair but saying it’s not a indicator of skill just because he plays a lot lmao that’s a whole other level (i know you specifically didn’t say that but others did)

[runic hinge]

Bro it’s simple math

lol

And the fact they don’t cd independently

[void mesa]

When people with these credentials

Bring these cooked takes

It kind of explains our take

So yeah

[drowsy lotus]

That’s a real arguement and factor I didn’t know tbh

[runic hinge]

If you’re holding vanish so both charges are back you’re just losing casts too LOL

[drowsy lotus]

That extra button feels fucken horrible though

[runic hinge]

Like get real. Use your own brain for a second

[drowsy lotus]

And crimson tempest being baseline now is even more bloat

[mint imp]

@runic hinge it only makes since to you because youre playing with 100%uptime on 5 targets on a training dummy/doungen slice sim. in a real scenario youre flat out incorrect. but thats okay, let me know how ur weekly no leavers go

[runic hinge]

I love how assa plays rn so can’t relate

[runic hinge]

Brother

[void mesa]

What?

[runic hinge]

In a 30 minute key it’s the difference between 15 or 16 vanishes. It’s one vanish. And if you’re holding it. You’re losing casts. Please. Use your brain. They do not cd independently

[drowsy lotus]

Lmao ok I’ll disavow that guy if yall disavow saying zero is only good because he plays a lot

He flat out didn’t read the cooldown part

[void mesa]

He didnt read anything

Hes just repeating cuz streamer guy said it

[slate crown]

Streaming was a mistake

We have to go back

to 480p youtube videos only

[void mesa]

Printed, hardcover game guides

[mint imp]

every single top assa player that has done a key this week is playing double vanish. im gonna guess the top players in the world know more about this then the 3k warriors on disc

[drowsy lotus]

Mate lmao

[runic hinge]

They’re cooked

[void mesa]

Im gonna guess you're fully wrong, yeah

Ill take that bet

[fleet pagoda]

I mean, the way they play keys it's feasible it fits. feel like there's a lot of context missing, those keys usually revovle around a few giga pulls

[drowsy lotus]

This is not an argument you’re just word vomiting. Why is double vanish better? If the cooldown only translates to 1 more

[junior yoke]

!opener

[runic hinge]

Do you think they know that the vanishes don’t cd independently

[junior yoke]

Ops

[runic hinge]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[fleet pagoda]

and stacking vanish charges for a giga pull where all CDs are dumped is probably the one time it'd be useful

[junior yoke]

Ty

[runic hinge]

And then you’re losing a cast because you’re holding for 4 minutes to get both charges if they’re both on cd

[void mesa]

Its like, can you do it? Yes
Why are they doing it? Cuz one of them read it wrong and they're all blindlly copying

Is it viable? Probably, yeah
Is it optimal? Hell nah

[drowsy lotus]

I came in here asked the same thing, if it’s worth it given X people said it’s different. Tony / jaded spelled it out pretty clearly and changed my mind

[mint imp]

it literally doesnt. there are pleanty of situations where youre fighting 2-3 mobs at the end of the pack that are gonna die in the next 10-15 seconds anyways. and when vanish is off CD youre not gonna press it in that situation. theres also alot of time inbtween pulls esp in nok/av where youre just going to the next pack and that allows extra recharge time

[runic hinge]

That just means you’re using vanish even less! H

Holy fuck then it has even less value!!!

Wtf am I reading

[drowsy lotus]

The cooldown doesn’t refresh independently in an entire key if you press it as many times as possible you get 1 more vanish.

[mint imp]

no. it means you have more vanishes for large pulls. or do your pug tanks not pull around your cds?

[slate crown]

How many more vanishes would you think it roughly equates to, extra over a dungeon? Just curious. Do you venture it amounts to 2, 2.5 more?

[void mesa]

There are edge cases where you do get cd refresh where you otherwise wouldnt because of 2 charges, and thats a net benefit

[drowsy lotus]

This is the correct question

[void mesa]

But its definitely not a big win

[runic hinge]

It’s 1 vanish!!! And if you hold. It’s even less. The math isn’t working in your favor LOL you’re losing casts by holding. Not gaining

Wtf am I reading

[void mesa]

The talent gets you min 1 charge in optimal conditions, and probably 3 or 4 in terrible circumstances

[runic hinge]

Oh I hold vanish and gain casts

No. The math doesn’t work like that at all

It cannot

[slate crown]

It is correct to state that it is not only 1 vanish because of the leniency granted by the charge system. I am granting that. But that doesn't mean it's double the vanishes. It's just what those leniency windows allow for (which, by the way, aren't accumulated throughout the entire dungeon, they are spent by going down to 0 charges).

[mint imp]

5ish depending on doungen if youre tank is pulling around your deathmark properly. and even then its a better talent choise than anything else thats available

[drowsy lotus]

@runic hinge I’ll try to find the sim though because I saw a 0.5% diff. Sure in 5 mins doesn’t mean much but maybe with less button bloat it might work out to less rotation mess ups?

[runic hinge]

Brother it cannot be more. If you are not sending vanish on cd it cannot gain you more casts than 1. You’re in fact losing casts by holding.

[mint imp]

sims are also bad. look at where simulation craft has assa rogue. at the bottom for pure ST. then go to wasrcraft logs and look at all top dps. atleast 20% assa rogues

[void mesa]

Do people hate ER so much this whole convo sparked up o.o

[willow vine]

The grammar is all I need to see ggs

[runic hinge]

[weak plover]

ER is pretty good imo

[fleet pagoda]

I think it was the notion that IC isn't that useful rather than ER

[runic hinge]

You’re so fucking cooked dude

[mint imp]

ER is usless. you send your evenoms at 4cp anyways

[runic hinge]

You do not

[drowsy lotus]

Should you just send vanish on CD then?

[void mesa]

LOL

[runic hinge]

You send them at 5-7

[mint imp]

LMAO

[void mesa]

Nearly on cd yeah

[mint imp]

not even true at all

[runic hinge]

Bro what

Where are you even getting your info from

[void mesa]

But yeah, bro just went from cooked takes to straight up wrong now

[weak plover]

Does ER envenom not equal 7 cp?

[mint imp]

i have a 100ilvl parse but what do i know about when to spend my evenoms

[fleet pagoda]

that's changed in prepatch as of yesterday brother

[willow vine]

Outlaw rogue got loose in the wrong channel omg

[void mesa]

Ilvl parse

xd

[mint imp]

ah. havent played 👍

[runic hinge]

Lemme take off my neck and cloak and get that 100 Ilvl parse

[fleet pagoda]

bonk

[narrow basalt]

💀

[willow vine]

Bro is thinking five extra vanishes from the CD reduction I guess

[waxen oyster]

ER useless

ahh yes 7cp finisher for low energy cost is useless

[runic hinge]

Yeah it’s gotta be outlaw brain

I can’t even right now

Idk how else to explain it

[drowsy lotus]

Sorry comment got hijacked by peak gamer dude lmao. If the delta is small is less button bloat good overall? What simmin deltas are yall getting

[narrow basalt]

ER is very far from useless. It’s just lame 😭

[mint imp]

nah its from the out of combat time/time in combat with low HP mobs. take your brain off of target dummy mode

[void mesa]

You've done your part dw tony

[willow vine]

Sigh

I’m not speaking to you bro I’m sorry I can’t

[narrow basalt]

[runic hinge]

If my total time in a key is 30 minutes my vanishes can go from 15 to 16 if I vanish on cd if I don’t vanish on cd then I will vanish less!!!!! Not more!!!

[pure moth]

crimson was off my bars some how and not even in spell book as having it. dragged it from talent tree lol... so make sure you double check bars /talents

[runic hinge]

Like what

You can’t gain vanish uses by not pressing it

That’s not how that works

[mint imp]

youre vanishing on CD? so youre vanishing when youre walking to the next pack if its off cd? youre vanishing when theres low hp mobs? that explains alot

[runic hinge]

You’re so fucking dense dude

[narrow basalt]

Yeah. Bc you restealth w/o vanish out of combat?

[runic hinge]

If I don’t vanish on cd that means less uses not more.

Doesn’t matter when I press it

[drowsy lotus]

@mint imp it should be easy for you no? You should be able to show us you get 5 more vanishes than what people are claiming

[runic hinge]

If you’re not pressing it you can’t gain more than the 1 extra charge

Because they don’t cd independently

[mint imp]

so youre admitting that if you ran double vanish. and you were running to the next pack. out of combat. and vanish came off CD, you would press vanish?

[narrow basalt]

Now THIS is epic.

[runic hinge]

Don’t @ me bro you’re so cooked

You don’t even understand how the talent works

[willow vine]

Ngl gleo you’re like my girlfriend when she argues with me

[mint imp]

you just admited that you would do that

[willow vine]

It don’t even make sense

[runic hinge]

They do not cd independently

[fleet pagoda]

if your sub is active, there's a built in stopwatch in the game. you can try it yourself and see how many vanishes you get over like 10 minutes. might help

[narrow basalt]

[slate crown]

The state you are in where you are using less vanishes because you are holding it is the starting point that Gleo is coming from. That is the baseline, which causes losses. An extra charge reduces waste. Gleo is then saying that waste reduction adds up to ~5 extra vanishes recovered from times you are otherwise holding vanish.

I do not know if that number is correct, and even if it were, if that adds up against ER.

But I'm trying to cut through the noise here

Because this conversation is going nowhere

[weak plover]

To be fair .. you aren't likely causing exactly on CD.. depending on the timing you might have long segments where you don't need to vanish and can charge back more than 1 charge in that time.. having the second vanish let's you pool back a second charge instead of the single vanish just waiting to be used ..

Is it better to have two charges .. I have no idea. But equating vanish on CD in m+ seems irrelevant.

[drowsy lotus]

But that doesn’t make sense if you’re inefficient and hold your charges to get the 2nd overall you’ll have way less not more

So over an entire key there’s no shot you get 5 more vanishes.

[runic hinge]

Right but you’d have to be holding your first charge for 10 minutes for it to be 5 extra uses lol

But then you’re not pressing it for ten minutes

[mint imp]

im going to take the double vanish just like quite literally every single top assa rogue still is in raid and m+👍 not worth arguing with people who think theyre smarter than the people like kush who literally gets paid to raid in echo when it comes to talent choices

[runic hinge]

So you’ve lost 5 casts

[fleet pagoda]

is it possible to have a multiple test-dummy environment where the dummies aren't losing health?

[drowsy lotus]

Mate I came in here with same opinion as you and I changed my opinion. You’re just repeating something you don’t understand.

Either engage with what they are saying or don’t type idk

[mint imp]

stay stuck -3k gang. see you on my alt keys

[narrow basalt]

Main character syndrome

[normal mist]

This conversation is escalating a bit, can we tone it down?

Let the yellow dude use double vanish like people who are paid to play and that's fine

[drowsy lotus]

Lmao no one’s escalating except 1 guy who didn’t like the fact his opinion wasn’t the general consensus. And it wasn’t his opinion just word vomit

[slate crown]

It's very hard to measure because the fact that you are using ER vs WaT will influence the key time. However that is something that can be measured. From the first cast of vanish to the end of the key, how much time does your vanish sit off-cooldown? Create a timer weakaura (I will not), and measure how long it is there. Then take that number and divide it by vanish's cooldown. That's how many vanishes are wasted in a key by not having recharges available.

Then weigh that against the alternatives.

Extra vanish charge grants you +1, and + that number of wasted vanishes back

[weak plover]

Yo we need double vanish to cancel more boss mechanics obviously.

[void mesa]

Idk whats the point of coming here with an idea and just use personal attacks against everyone disagreeing while using herd mentality as an argument, but I guess some people are like that

[fleet pagoda]

that's the tech I hate to read. because I can see this degen business happenin

[drowsy lotus]

This makes sense to me, if a perfect perfect vanish use gets you 1 more vanish then idk how that would make sense mathematically

[normal mist]

Y'all lucky whispyr isn't here

[drowsy lotus]

I got called -3k I’m the victim here 😦

[narrow basalt]

😭

[narrow basalt]

Justice is required

[slate crown]

And it's not about "perfect" vanish uses from you, it's about "does the key's circumstances line up such that vanish makes sense to use at the moment you can use it", that realistic understanding of the dungeon is the correct starting point.

Don't start from perfect uses as the baseline

[runic hinge]

I wish he was.

[drowsy lotus]

It was too ez on mage getting 3k had to make a rogue alt to see what the carpal tunnel was about

[royal python]

Hey guys, is vanish talent better or echoing reprimand

[runic hinge]

I don’t think I’m holding vanish long in keys ever and also smeld is also always on cd but idk what everyone else is doing to just be holding that shit

[willow vine]

Not the carpal tunnel lmao

You guys are great

[slate crown]

Oh I have no idea how much it gets held, if at all. My number above of "+1, + reduced waste" is still accurate, but in your case that reduced waste may be like 0.5 vanishes because you're using it on CD, in which case that's fine

[narrow basalt]

Do you have to spec into carpal tunnel or is it available out the gate?

[mint imp]

yeah outlaw has a carpal tunnel build. its a good time 🙂

[runic hinge]

And even if the waste is like a full cast that would mean I’ve been holding vanish for a total of two minutes so I coulda just sent it on cd and got that cast in too. It just doesn’t allow you to vanish extra

[drowsy lotus]

Well I come at it from a “just send” perspective because I don’t highly coordinate high keys and rather not risk losing extra cds. So if I’m just sending most of the time I don’t see much value

[fleet pagoda]

it makes sense to send it when available if you trust your tank. these s4 tanks are on something different man. a lot of these dudes do bad chains at random points

[mint imp]

if youre just sending it then yes even i agree its a waste of a talent. but if you have someone pulling around 2min cds then IMO it makes more sense to be able to always have a vanish on go and one recharging when you go into a pull

[slate crown]

I wanted to cut through the noise because to me it's pretty clear the argument for WaT is not that they recharge independently, what I was reading from Gleo was about reduced waste, which is a correct conceptual argument to make. Numerically, it may be incorrect, but conceptually it is a vector for gaining damage

[normal mist]

In the end, most people here will run what a guy who is also paid to write says, which, until further notice, is using ER

Because in Sims / Whispyr we trust

And he's cute

[mint imp]

also, not worth arguing anymore on tww talents "balanced" around hero talents and tier

[drowsy lotus]

So to make sense of it, for chain pulling in general it doesn’t make sense, but to specifically hold vanish for specific pulls and windows the talent makes sense. I.e; timing your damage on pulls versus optimizing 40 mins of damage

[normal mist]

Yes

But you're playing chess at that point

And we don't play chess

We full send

[drowsy lotus]

I’m gna be real here I only play for damage meters and to shit on my friends

[normal mist]

Brrrrr

[pure sparrow]

I would say that if you have to ask if you should be using x2 vanish talent

you probably shouldn't

[fleet pagoda]

I think that's coincidentally the way keys are played at that level, so it makes sense for them. not for most of us

[drowsy lotus]

You beat me too it

Brrrrr

[pure sparrow]

if you need x2 vanish talent, you probably already know you need x2 vanish talent

[drowsy lotus]

Hey I just want 1 less button.

My fire mage hands are fragile

[pure sparrow]

and for most people, like probably everyone except people with a very high quality high key group, just slamming ER on CD will do more damage than you running x2 vanish

[fleet pagoda]

doesn't mage have a ton of buttons?

[runic hinge]

Its just behind 3 points that are absolutely Garbo tho so idk

[drowsy lotus]

Fire mage? You’re just pressing 4 things as fast as you can

[normal mist]

Shim gets it

[fleet pagoda]

I'm the kind of person who still has pickpocket bound so maybe it's a "me" problem lol

[mint imp]

gives u an extra stop when u can use sheathed abilities. and more improved garrote spreading. if youre pugging just take ER like shim said 👍 problem solved mi amor

[drowsy lotus]

I just don’t get the point of crimson tempest when rupture / garrote exists, seems like the 3 aoe dots are bloated

[mint imp]

if the key is high enough that you get an actual bleed out of CT it will be one of your highest overall in a key

[drowsy lotus]

Mate I use it and I do high keys it’s nothing special. Im saying as a design it serves no purpose that’s not already being served. I think it’s a bad design and just an extra button

[pure sparrow]

more plates to juggle is fun

[fleet pagoda]

without it we're just pressing envenom, it's at least another finisher

[drowsy lotus]

Rupture I guess but that’s once in a while

Idk getting rid of shadow dance just to replace it with a generator doesn’t feel great to me I’d rather just have shadow dance build

But maybe I’m alone here

[mint imp]

you played CT with dance too. atleast you should have been

[drowsy lotus]

I’m talking about the new Talent brain farting the sword swing one

The extra combo points one

[runic hinge]

Look I get your point about not wasting the cd but I need you to realize that it’s still only one extra cast. You just get to use it when you want it. If you vanish at :30 seconds in and then 1 minute in. Your first vanish comes back at 2:30 in. Your second comes back when???? 4:30. Your third will be 6:30. This is all assuming you’re vanishing before both charges are back. You can maybe use them when you need them a bit better because you don’t have waste time but it’s still only one charge. You can’t actually vanish more than one extra time in the same dungeon.

[mint imp]

ahh i got ya now

[mint imp]

the difference is im using my vanishes when were pulling a big pull because i play in a 5 man and i know what pulls are where so i can save vanishes for that moment. if youre not in a situation like i am then i agree that you dont need that talent

[runic hinge]

Okay but to have two charges up later in the key you’re not vanishing for 4 minutes. It doesn’t mean you get more. But I suppose you care about when instead of how much.

[mint imp]

yes

[runic hinge]

Not pressing vanish for 4 minutes is not something I’ve ever done but you do you

[mint imp]

after ending it and agreeing that we are both in different situations when it comes to key coordination i agreed to disagree. but youre still dragging it for some reason.

[drowsy lotus]

@runic hinge be the bigger man

Lmao

[runic hinge]

Bro you haven’t even played this patch. You didn’t even know we finish on 5+ now and you’re telling me “we’re in different key situations” you’re not even playing the game LOL

[drowsy lotus]

LMAO

[mint imp]

because i havent played in the last 1 1/2 days it must mean i have 0 idea that talent choices for any class/spec depend on pugging/coordinated group 5mans. 👍

[strange python]

this is actually hella funny

[drowsy lotus]

On that note I’m out @runic hinge @void mesa @slate crown Ty for the info really appreciate it

[silk bane]

its okay, im convinced anyone who says the words "3k warrior" is a dumbass. dont worry

[runic hinge]

3k is like top 5% so if you think you’re so above people who are better than almost everyone else I just don’t understand you as a person at all.

[silk bane]

its just anyone who io shames imo is an idiot.

just saying this guys 50 io higher so he knows micro spec things better, just shows you dont understand the game at all

[dull cloak]

3k is still in the realm of do keys until get lucky to time, doesnt automatically mean its a good player

and not even really high keys

[runic hinge]

Sure but you’re also better than 95% of the player base. There’s levels to doing keys but you don’t gotta look down on people.

[lusty narwhal]

Hell even first bosses of mythic is more than most of the player base lmao

Which sounds unfathomably bad but thats the reality

[runic hinge]

Stating to sound like league players when they say you’re not good til you hit challenger

[grim jay]

Dw the high key rogues dont wanna play 2nd vanish like that either

[waxen oyster]

I wonder if the guy knows he has his discord handle linked

on his rio

…..

[grim jay]

(except maybe a certain guy)

[runic hinge]

It’s like stealthi always told me, every cd on cd, doesn’t matter if it’s dm right before a boss. Either it comes back up or you didn’t need it. Missed casts are worse

[grim jay]

Why did they buff auto attacks

[runic hinge]

For more plague damage

[raven egret]

Casue thats what we do right, rogues auto attack, its what we do yep yep

Poisons and bleeds? shadow damage? Thats so yesterday's news!

[runic hinge]

That’s why we love slice and dice. Cause we get to auto attack even more

[raven egret]

Precisely

SYNERGY!

[raven egret]

wait what someone wants to play 2 vanish?

What is this non-sense, and summarize it in 2 words so I dont have to scroll back up

[grim jay]

Didnt expect them removing the other auras and tuning skills for that either

Unless I read the spell data changes wrong

[grim jay]

Different keysituation

[waxen oyster]

The buffs are beta only right

[raven egret]

https://tenor.com/view/naruto-anime-sasuke-sasuke-uchiha-looking-gif-17753513

[grim jay]

People are really focused on IC

[strange python]

sims are ok for assa?

[runic hinge]

zero is playing double vanish

[raven egret]

dare I ask why? or is 'people are really focused on IC ' really just it

[grim jay]

I mean. Do you really have to ask considering about who he is talking?

Hes just cooking

[runic hinge]

apparently you might hold vanish for so long that the cd of the second one will be ticking and that would be better than the 4 points spent elsewhere on the treee oh and apparently theres some pulls you might need double vanish for ironwire

So you might not waste any casts

[grim jay]

Hopefully Whispyr doesnt wake up fast enough to read this

[runic hinge]

apparently holding vanish for 4 minutes is common in high keys in the past 2 days

[raven egret]

ok so we have to hold vanish for double iron wire, at which point bring any other class with better stops and gg ez XD

[slate crown]

I really don't understand what it means to hold that long or how it could add up to that much benefit

Like if tanks are pulling around your 2mins

that means you'll be using vanish

every 2 mins

like, it lines up to just being on cd

[raven egret]

it also means losing ER which, as much as I am not a fan of ER, is still vastly more versatile with our current options

[runic hinge]

better to be nelf

at least that cd is independant LOL

plus you do flips

[raven egret]

I really really really don't want to switch to NE

[runic hinge]

I always have been so

[grim jay]

The main thing for me is, considering you used dance and kb at the beginning of the pull bcs of the kb duration, you didnt get much benefit from the dance IC often, as you just had your opener IC

So why would we now suddenly need something thats basically trashing points

If we have better IC Windows

And marginally less IC spread

[raven egret]

Like ok, if you are at the key level where holding Vanish for IRON WIRE specifically matters, then we ain't talking abotu 99.9% of the rest of us are we

[sick radish]

coz mobs dont die in higher keys and bleeds run out, and you dont have vanish for every pack

[raven egret]

we can't utilize iron wire as reliably as other stops outside of very organized pre-planned runs anyway

[grim jay]

Doesnt change the fact that you didnt care about it before either and you still manually reapply

[steel ridge]

what the fuck is that hand of fate change

[raven egret]

Yeah, apply couple ruptures, keep Crimson up, spatter the rest

[grim jay]

Also we dont really know how long they will survive next season, comes down to comb aswell

[runic hinge]

more damage on heads

[raven egret]

Hi. Hello. It is a tuning update that I don't think we care too much about, coin go more boom 😄

[grim jay]

Doubt that will be much of a thing

Tbf

[steel ridge]

oh boi they gave up right

[raven egret]

where've you been, we past that doom now we on problem solving with what we got

Theres still roguing to be done

[sick radish]

vdh has lost so much cc. having flexible vanish for silences is giga

[runic hinge]

I'm in, I ain't swapping

[grim jay]

Ngl I kinda like that they buffed the skills separately

[steel ridge]

deathstalker still needs a fix for when you lose your mark

♿

[raven egret]

say hello to AoE blind, and 2 stack of vanish doesnt make it more flexible, it just allows you to cast 2 vanish early on, then it's still once every 2 mins.

you still dont get more Iron Wire control

[clever sapphire]

deathstalker needs a fix for when its not a target dummy fight

[grim jay]

Just play with a prot pala we dont know what will be the play by any stretch tbf

But quite some people are pretty sure it wont be 2nd vanish

[clever sapphire]

yesterday i realised my problem with er

its that i have it on my dance bind and i always try to press it before kb

[grim jay]

I honestly dont know how they wanna fix swapping at this point

[runic hinge]

double vanish

im kidding

[grim jay]

Many had that yesterday

[steel ridge]

thats the best change in that dev note tbh 😄

[raven egret]

It needs a redesign really, Deathstalker just is not the play, same with priest Oracle, those 2 need divine interventions

[clever sapphire]

ye i also have no clue, i just know its bad

[grim jay]

No the actual relocation from aura to skill buffs is pretty good imo

[sick radish]

if you are doing weekly keys u dont even need iron wire

[clever sapphire]

boy i need iron wire even more in my weekly keys

so i can make mobs stack together

because tanks sure as hell cant do it

[grim jay]

Just play with a Dk

[raven egret]

Now now, we should not antagonize our tanks they already are going through an identity crisis right now

[runic hinge]

Did you guys see this?

[raven egret]

See, needing a healer to heal them is a big deal, or something

[grim jay]

I kinda liked the mark being a buff on you rather than on a Mob.

[raven egret]

CT stonks

[clever sapphire]

everyone tank is a warrior for some reason

[grim jay]

Nah believe, dk on the rise

[clever sapphire]

did like 5 keys yesterday, only had 1 key where the tank could hold even a bit of aggro. Did they nerf their aggro or what

[raven egret]

No, just stop being so damn good at the game

it's in our rogue contract to not outshine the plebs in our groups, otherwise no one wants to play with us

[clever sapphire]

i shall not post my almost 6M opener on academy in that case

[grim jay]

If they were all warriors I can see why

[clever sapphire]

but ye no had all kinds of tanks

had one dk, he just told us to stop running away from him so he can hold aggro

we all died from melee

[grim jay]

Didnt they nerf tank damage at some point? Maybe thats why

[clever sapphire]

i dunno, but losing aggro to a balance druid dotting up

or an assa rogue using fok twice

[waxen oyster]

Did they nerf them with patch

[clever sapphire]

sounds a bit weird

[steel ridge]

are those beta changes hotfixed onto prepatch aswell?

or is that a seperate boat from now on

[waxen oyster]

prot warrior was kinda fucking s4 when i messed with it

[raven egret]

separate

[waxen oyster]

only downside is you're not a vdh

[bronze pike]

ya your tank was kinda poop

tank nerfs didnt get applied in prepatch

everyone did get more damage

[raven egret]

also this is fun

[waxen oyster]

Honestly prot warrior was fun last season

[bronze pike]

but with current damage tuning, and how threat works. if your tank had a solid grasp on their rotatio nthen theres shouldnt be much issue with threat

[waxen oyster]

besides the fact

you dont have double sigils

[bronze pike]

ya im glad double sigils is gone

for the best

[raven egret]

they have plenty of time to fix threat anyway not worried about that

just tricks harder

[waxen oyster]

havent checked prot changes

once you tclap shield charged

gg tbh

[clever sapphire]

ye thats what i assumed (keys where the tank lost aggro where between 8-11)

so nothing high really

[bronze pike]

also blood changes are in preptach

so theres also a case of "not knowing"

[raven egret]

Nothing high, meanwhile 90% of the wow population can't get past +5

[bronze pike]

like people are still ggia coping that UE is useful when bonestorm, purg, and bloodshot are mandatory to actually play bdk

[clever sapphire]

i dunno, 8-11 doesnt feel high to me

[raven egret]

doesnt to many of us, but it is high for most (used to be 20+ range)

[steel ridge]

people want AUGs for +8 keys

perspective matters

[clever sapphire]

okay ye you guys are right

my brain still cant convert 8-10 as high key

[raven egret]

ya know what I want?

[clever sapphire]

but it could 18-20

[steel ridge]

a +6 already is aspect crest territory

[raven egret]

More of this! CT Stonks rise up! Make CT truck like a ... truck!

[clever sapphire]

people wanted SV hunters for every key yesterday no matter what lvl

[runic hinge]

for real, need people to play it all the time

less cleave more CT

Look at me, we're the padders now

[grim jay]

I mean their "official" m+ build doesnt have bloodshot

But it doesnt have UE either

Luckily

[raven egret]

Dont tell anyone but I am a cleave build user....

[clever sapphire]

cleave build now exists with CT

[raven egret]

I want to use CT, I do! I want to not go back to the asylum, sir!

[bronze pike]

ah i see

[quiet oar]

Maybe i should play 1-2 keys with my survival

[fleet pagoda]

be interested to see how it sims. I simmed something similar for s4 and it dropped so much st that it seemed moot

[bronze pike]

ohhh instead of blood shot is carnage

[fleet pagoda]

like it was hybrid without the bonus bleed

[clever sapphire]

im pretty sure they just got hit with the nerf hammer

[bronze pike]

ohkay i see i see

[bronze pike]

barely relevant

[steel ridge]

did someone say CT in ST?!

[clever sapphire]

i assume its not that bad since whispyr put it on wowhead

[waxen oyster]

the prot warrior fotms are probably just people fotm playing warrior

and getting gear to play dps

[raven egret]

where did you even read that XD

[steel ridge]

nowhere

[raven egret]

oh wait

no I get it

[steel ridge]

know your memes

[runic hinge]

like this?

[raven egret]

Make CT do 10000% more dmg if it hits only 1 target!

MAKE IT HAPPEN

[steel ridge]

°_°

[runic hinge]

wait

with BS instead of ttb

[fleet pagoda]

yeah, pretty much

yeah

[steel ridge]

DTB without amp poison? what kind of sorcery is that

[raven egret]

Did you just put a point in Doomblade? WTF is wrong with you

[clever sapphire]

the bonespike build also does that

[runic hinge]

whoops

[clever sapphire]

and thats the best build

[runic hinge]

thats in imp poison

[clever sapphire]

confirmed by me

[steel ridge]

you guys are cooked

[grim jay]

Bonespike bias

[fleet pagoda]

when I simmed it like two weeks ago it was almost identical to shock and hybrid in both st and slice lol

[raven egret]

Well if someone posted a screenshot with it, it must be true. DOOMBLADE STONKS RISE UP!

[runic hinge]

Look my talent pages are wack rn

[clever sapphire]

wait i just realised you have doomblade talented

wut da hell

[runic hinge]

they aren't even switching

[fleet pagoda]

suffering from success. kinda cool we have these ways to play

[grim jay]

Idk dropping sudden demise is imo kinda eh

If you have the ability to take it

[fleet pagoda]

yeah after the kb nerfs feels like you gotta demise

[runic hinge]

I'm trying to move points around the talent page just isn't doing it, I had a build last season which was dtb no amp

[raven egret]

What sucks for me is that I often play with a cracked Warlock. Shit doesnt live long enough

[grim jay]

Just Tricks him

[waxen oyster]

Honestly doomblade seems extremely weak

[raven egret]

I DID, fckers can tank hits

[waxen oyster]

surprised its worth the pt on st

[steel ridge]

doomblade might aswell read as "2% mastery"

[runic hinge]

what if we take doomblade and VV, think of the mutilate stonks

[raven egret]

its not, you only node it if you want SBS

[fleet pagoda]

lethal dose doesn't hurt, too

[raven egret]

no cause then it'd be gooder.

[rotund oak]

lethal dose is poggers

[steel ridge]

yes, it would be all targets instead of one.

[fleet pagoda]

I mean specifically in relation to doomblade

[steel ridge]

lethal dose is probably the most powerful node in the entire tree xD

[rotund oak]

beta update btw

[waxen oyster]

doomblade was ok in legion

[rotund oak]

whats being cooked

[waxen oyster]

idk wtf happened

ermm

sl

[steel ridge]

dunno, just numbers

[grim jay]

Double vanish

[raven egret]

probably a fix to the billions of disconnect scenarios

[rotund oak]

[rotund oak]

would make sense

[raven egret]

Wait wait wait, what if we had double double vanish

[waxen oyster]

can someone explain to me the point of warbands

besides tmog

[rotund oak]

[grim jay]

Quadruple vanish

[raven egret]

account wide reputations, currencies (not all), etc etc.

[grim jay]

What if we had 2 vanish charges that recharge independently

[runic hinge]

what if we had shadowdance?!

[fleet pagoda]

vanish empowers shadowheart to 4%?

[raven egret]

Woah there, thats too much cooking

[waxen oyster]

wait so like

[grim jay]

Death and despair

[waxen oyster]

is it server limited

[rotund oak]

its 700MB update boys

[waxen oyster]

or is entire acc one warband

[rotund oak]

[raven egret]

its how I was able to consolidate 50 character's worth of Timewarped badge on my main like this:

[runic hinge]

all on one

[waxen oyster]

[raven egret]

and yeah warband is just a fancy word for account wide stuff

[runic hinge]

you got infinite timereaver?

[raven egret]

KNow whats weird though? Some currencies still have a tax to them

[waxen oyster]

ya'll didnt get timereaver in wod?

[raven egret]

Got it week 1 it released LOL

[rotund oak]

capitalism

[fleet pagoda]

that hurts to look at in multiple ways

[clever sapphire]

you get your dungeon portals on all your chars

[runic hinge]

dang lol

[waxen oyster]

yeah i got my wod cm ports

half of which became a key

[raven egret]

I got insane luck with mounts, which I wish would be applied to other things than mounts

[runic hinge]

idk when i got mine but it was in DF

maybe season 1

[fleet pagoda]

I respect you guys have the patience to do timewalking

[waxen oyster]

i was doing the 5 tw dungeons weekly in wod

"oh that's a mount"

[clever sapphire]

i got infinite timereaver the first tw dungeon i ever did

[raven egret]

I don't exactly farm it religiously to be honest, I just did a lot over the years especially with leveling, deleting and re-leveling chars

[clever sapphire]

didnt even know i could get a mount

[narrow basalt]

F u 😭

[raven egret]

all my chars had some tokens, but none of them had enough to buy the pricier stuff on their own so at some point I kinda just.... got tired.

[waxen oyster]

timewalking was fun when you could use tiersets in it

[narrow basalt]

I have done countless, without much luck.

[clever sapphire]

thats what all my mount farming buddies tell me, and i keep flexing with this to annoy them

[fleet pagoda]

makes sense. was probably a little more engaging a little earlier... I hardy played wod->bfa so I assumed the scaling was less wild

[waxen oyster]

i was a tank doing

90% of my groups damage

every run

[narrow basalt]

Grrr etc

[raven egret]

Well yeah how else can I enjoy my tea casually if you don't carry

duh

[clever sapphire]

you can play aug

[waxen oyster]

also immortal

XD

[clever sapphire]

go afk and they wont notice the difference

[narrow basalt]

No you cant

[runic hinge]

damn, i went through a portal and now i don't have 4 daggers anymore

[raven egret]

One does not 'play' aug

[rotund oak]

got mine after alot of vault runs for counter measures trinket

[narrow basalt]

[clever sapphire]

man i still have ptsd from farming vault and court of stars for 1 week, just for it to come back 1-2 seasons later as a normal m+ dungeon

i didnt even wanna see that dungeon after the 1 week of farming

[narrow basalt]

😂

[clever sapphire]

(never got the trinket nor the ring)

[narrow basalt]

See, thats the luck you’re supposed to have.

[waxen oyster]

What you didnt like doing court of stars

3 seasons in a row?

sl s3 sl s4

[grim jay]

Guys please help me wash away my sins. I posted a few messages in outlaw

[waxen oyster]

df s1

[clever sapphire]

my luck is so good that im surprised if i dont take socket in my first vault of a season

[raven egret]

Did you mention Acro?

[grim jay]

@shrewd night

[narrow basalt]

LMFAO. Different

[raven egret]

If I could mute you I would right now

[clever sapphire]

remind them of acro, now the channel is burning

[steel ridge]

gib acro

[quiet oar]

Wtf

[shrewd night]

@brittle jungle Maybe uuuh.. Not do that?

[quiet oar]

Im honest

[raven egret]

Holy hell @grim jay you shot a broadside over there

[quiet oar]

It was the biggest mistake for realz to talk to us

[grim jay]

Aswell

[quiet oar]

People just cant behave

[raven egret]

meh its just how the internet works, out of a population you'll always have outliers

[quiet oar]

Its not an outlier

The amount of People saying "realz is the reason hero talents are bad"

is too high to be "outliers"

[clever sapphire]

realz should have only gotten permissions to type in a channel with all the special smart guys and high ranking people that know how to behave. Him typing even once in a channel just triggers everyones crybaby

[quiet oar]

Ye

[clever sapphire]

dont get me wrong i liked the interactions

but it was just bad in the long run

[bronze pike]

that was one of the suggestions but

[quiet oar]

Poor guy wanted to communicate with the community and jsut gets shit on for everything

[bronze pike]

then people will go

"discord mod cabal contro lthe narative of the spec and thats why its shit"

[raven egret]

Yeah now count the amount of people that DONT do that, regardless of perception I promise those are outliers

[grim jay]

Thats why they usually dont do it most likely

[bronze pike]

when classcords are heavily disliked by the community for 0 reason

[raven egret]

and yeah its understandable because its impossible to filter the amount of people involved entirely

[clever sapphire]

okay true, i could see that happening also

[shrewd night]

Bro thinks realz triggers crybabies when everyone is a crybaby extraordinaire by just waking up

[bronze pike]

thats why its important to limit vile here where we can

and try in more public places were mods cant moderate

like the forums

the amount of people i verbally smacked down in wow forums is exhausting

[grim jay]

Some people are just stupid, assuming random shit and are intrusive as hell. Those get drawn to stuff like that

[bronze pike]

anonymity does that to you

[grim jay]

Ye

[runic hinge]

If that happened I wouldn’t have gotten my favorite meme

[clever sapphire]

i mean you have to agree that him typing even once triggered a lot of people to complain and ping him (they would otherwise probably not have typed much if at all is my assumption)

[narrow basalt]

[clever sapphire]

S4 we were close to that

[bronze pike]

i think both fh and rh did their best with moderating the masses when realz talked

no complaints

but i sadly noticed

[raven egret]

I mean look, there are devs in all class discord, they can read our madness at their hearts content already

[clever sapphire]

oh ye that for sure, mods here do a really good job

[bronze pike]

way more degen people in rh when realz is around lmao

[shrewd night]

I think real-time communication between blizzard and class discords is a really good thing, I just think its been executed very poorly previously. Not giving shit to realz or anything, but establishing boundaries early would have probably stifled some of the crybaby pinging.

[bronze pike]

probably cause rogue has a more heavily invested population

[grim jay]

Yeah but afterwards, I heard somethings were just spreading from fh

[bronze pike]

im aware

fixed now

but it shouldnt have happened to begin with

[grim jay]

I thought we have you for the boundaries

[shrewd night]

[runic hinge]

tbh s3 coulda been good if we didn't get smacked in week 2

[bronze pike]

[runic hinge]

But i was looking at the changes like damn this spec gonna do some aoe for sure

[grim jay]

Juiced emotes lately

[raven egret]

I feel like bla should be a furever thing, lets keep it alive

[waxen oyster]

I think boomkin community is the worst i've seen

spec thinks they're never good

[narrow basalt]

Speak for yourself, Im gonna do jackshit in aoe with sin 😎

[clever sapphire]

as soon as you are ranged you shall not complain

[fleet pagoda]

cleave gang rise up

[raven egret]

Yeah wake me up when we reach the boss

[shrewd night]

I had it on my emote server for a good while, but guy wanted to give it to the masses, so thank him

[runic hinge]

i played sin only to 3k so that dude earlier was right about me

[narrow basalt]

Outlaws are always right

Superior really

[raven egret]

But Acro...

[grim jay]

Its kinda sad that there even are those prejudices. Like fh and sh have those aswell

[narrow basalt]

But acro indeed..

[clever sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/they-had-us-in-the-first-half-not-gonna-lie-gif-13620240

[raven egret]

That's all in the past anyway, CT got buff, we kings now

[narrow basalt]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-horrors-beyond-our-comprehension-low-tier-god-mods-banned-gif-8530537273735940092

[clever sapphire]

so limiting me to outlaw channel?

[narrow basalt]

LMFAO

[waxen oyster]

so british food

[narrow basalt]

Unironically inhumane treatment

[raven egret]

THink we can extradite you to the DH discord

[clever sapphire]

dh and evoker is the only discord im not on

[waxen oyster]

i feel ret discord is a cesspit

have you seen the average ret player

[bronze pike]

[clever sapphire]

i mean i dont really touch any discord besides rogue because the other discords cant even compare somehow

[waxen oyster]

male human in full judgement

[grim jay]

@sudden brook I hereby express my thanks to you in the name of every person on the RH discord for bringing us what we didnt know we needed before.

[waxen oyster]

im here to collect my boomer stamp

[grim jay]

[shrewd night]

[bronze pike]

if you dont have your judgement set on a male human

are u really playing paladin?

[runic hinge]

average ret player isn't in a class discord cause the average ret player can't read

[raven egret]

[distant geode]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[fleet pagoda]

tbf when I was playing alt keys last season I saw a lot of disheartening sin players. average player in general struggles a fair bit

[bronze pike]

fucking AXCCURATE

[narrow basalt]

I was in the dk disc for 5 min and got shouted at for asking how they were liking the blood dk spec in s4 😭

[sudden brook]

[waxen oyster]

i saw a guy playing outlaw

with thorncaller and forgestorm and signet brand

[raven egret]

How dare you ask silly questions?

[waxen oyster]

he was also dead lik

every other pack

[clever sapphire]

i saw many assa players in my low keys that bought augury

[runic hinge]

I don't type in any other class discord, just read pins

[steel ridge]

[waxen oyster]

i saw assa players buying dreamcarver

[fleet pagoda]

now those are some guys who like chain pulls lmao

[grim jay]

Honestly, from someone that likes blood, it just got kinda punished for existing. Playing 2p2p all day and having one of the worst reputations for high m+ for quite some time, nothing got adressed in s4

[narrow basalt]

Played stupid games, got recked by a 14 y/o kid telling me to kms.

[grim jay]

Its pretty fine tbf

[waxen oyster]

my favorite is watching melee buy brand to do keys

[drifting wing]

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:

• Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
• You can add in some sanguine/rupture value from carnage, but chaining allows for higher uptime and smoother energy overall, eliminating a lot of ramp at the start of a pull
• This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths (chain heavy spiteful weeks are only about -30% on stealths)
• You still have vanish which gives you plenty of options to get your stealth effects
• This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years

[waxen oyster]

because they saw it on a wowhead bis guide

[narrow basalt]

Deserved 😤

[waxen oyster]

i saw a warrior buy smolderon 2h

as his first bullion

[runic hinge]

i mean

it's a warrior player

[waxen oyster]

tbh idk where the dumb warrior player stereotype comes from

ranged mains are dumber on average from my experience

[grim jay]

Idk the spec is pretty cool and the players pretty chill aswell, dont think they deserve that

[waxen oyster]

Well besides gromnak

specialboye

[grim jay]

Its just the

Ooga booga Zug zug warrior thing

Like the brutes stereotype

No brain only brawn

[runic hinge]

[narrow basalt]

Maybe the guys that responded to me were outliers 🥶 just felt like people who haven’t interacted with other people for a looong time.

[grim jay]

Yeah you have that here sometimes aswell tho

[narrow basalt]

True

[grim jay]

If barely anyone is there and the person that is has a bad day or something

Or its something that got asked a million times in the last 2 hours

[waxen oyster]

My favorite thing with class discords

is someone asking a question that got answered

literally like 4-5 messages above

[narrow basalt]

All I said was «How are yall liking the spec this season»

and they went off 😂

Sorry for not being a wordsmith

[clever sapphire]

maybe you asked at the wrong time

[runic hinge]

Don't ask me about 2 vanish charges rn cause I was heated earlier

same thing

[clever sapphire]

zero played 2 vanish charges, so thats meta right?

[grim jay]

Ye idk if I go to a different class discord that I dont type in frequently, I look at the Pins, use the search function and THEN ask the question

[oak tangle]

guys i need help

[grim jay]

Not only you dw

[oak tangle]

i am thinking of maining dh for TWW and i dont wanna join the discord

[narrow basalt]

3k headass trynna make moves

[runic hinge]

Dude doesn't know he motivated me to push higher than I have before just to spite him next season

[oak tangle]

sadly i dont think ima main rogue, as if it's meant to be almost the same as DF i want a break

[waxen oyster]

oddly enough most of the good dhs i know stay in their own private disc

[grim jay]

Arent they back to the ezpz build? Just smash your forehead really hard and youll do fine

[waxen oyster]

and shit talk the guidewriter any chance they get

[narrow basalt]

Post screenshot in the outlaw disc

[sudden brook]

[grim jay]

[waxen oyster]

apparently shadarek is disliked but idk why

[grim jay]

Whos that

[runic hinge]

should i also post the screenshots of him not breaking 2900 when I do?

[oak tangle]

my only hope is that I may also choose to play windwalker, but like i feel like neither option is a smart one

[normal mist]

Let's go dude, higher and higher, don't stop before r1

[waxen oyster]

the guy who writes the havoc stuff

[grim jay]

Windwalker is a good choice, the discord is good aswell

[clever sapphire]

is anything melee related a good choice in tww?

[fleet pagoda]

you're overthinkin it big dawg. figure what's most fun to you and yolo it

[runic hinge]

me in s2

[clever sapphire]

you stopped before r1

[runic hinge]

I did

[grim jay]

Ah alright. I only know dhs taking their info from jedi or whatever that guy is called

[runic hinge]

I was scared of doing keys then

[shrewd night]

Strangely enough surv looks to be megapumping

[runic hinge]

in s2 i thought people would flame me for playing assa

[narrow basalt]

That would be really funny for like 10 seconds, before he calls you a «noob». At that point he owned youz

[runic hinge]

true

[clever sapphire]

ah ye i forgot about sv, also assumed its changing after the hotfixes

[raven egret]

I can flame you retroactively if you want

[grim jay]

15s before he gets hate dms

[narrow basalt]

[shrewd night]

Explosive shot is very balanced rn

Will also be very balanced in tww

[grim jay]

Poor souls are good rn just to get nuked again

As that is their fate

[fleet pagoda]

they're having their kingsbane arc

[waxen oyster]

i mean in s2

all 3 rogue specs were in the same boat

of being dumpster daniels

[clever sapphire]

[grim jay]

I thought we are trash timmies

[shrewd night]

Lets hope devs stop this pendulum buff/nerf thing for feral so I can live happily one more expansion

[runic hinge]

the only flame i cause was one time i did a key with a friends guildies and they were like "are those garrotes?!?!?!" and then we all laughed but no one ever actually asked me to go sub

[clever sapphire]

how is feral looking for tww so far? legit question

[waxen oyster]

Feral is just sin rogue for furries

[tough gorge]

Survival AND Fury are pumping

[runic hinge]

Then why did i swap off

[grim jay]

Dont hate on meownar

[waxen oyster]

the ghost cat skin is sick though

[runic hinge]

purple cat is bis

[rotund oak]

the feral dream exists

[grim jay]

I sometimes play fury, if I feel like outlaw is strong rn

[shrewd night]

As far as I understand its a little bit of a limbo. I think it will be fine, but still have the same issue of needing to sacrifice too much ST to do good aoe and vice versa.
Devs are trying to fix this but its like. Feral needs ST so we nerf bleeds and put damage in bite. But feral also needs aoe, so we nerf bite and buff bleeds. Rinse repeat.

[grim jay]

Which purple skin

[fleet pagoda]

sounds familiar

[runic hinge]

mage tower but i really like the one you get from the arch achieve as well

[clever sapphire]

well alright, feral is staying in my consider tab for tww

[shrewd night]

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/539862.jpg

[grim jay]

Oh yeah thats good, but im still kinda annoyed that I cant just use the claws of shirvalla form

[rotund oak]

i liked the firelands one better

this is from legion aight?

[runic hinge]

firelands has like 10 pixels

ye

[shrewd night]

They upped the pixels

[clever sapphire]

the firelands animations somehow just annoy me

[shrewd night]

But it still looks like ass

[rotund oak]

still have PTSD from ferals in arena

[clever sapphire]

somehow when i press an ability i feel like i pressed a different one

[rotund oak]

fukin bites for 120% of my health

[fleet pagoda]

[runic hinge]

something about the face is weird

[shrewd night]

YES

[waxen oyster]

my ptsd is from

[shrewd night]

Something about the face looks superbad

[waxen oyster]

rets taking 80% of my hp

from 20 yds

[shrewd night]

I cant put my finger on it

[waxen oyster]

"melee" spec

BTW

[rotund oak]

the light compels u mfk@r

[runic hinge]

yeah idk

[raven egret]

Hey now have some empathy for Rets, they lost ther +3 range to melee abilities node!

[waxen oyster]

oh no

my autoattacks

[runic hinge]

I just play mage tower and change the color depending on the day

[rotund oak]

i kinda like it idk

[shrewd night]

Change cat skin depending on transmog choices

[runic hinge]

yes definitely

[normal mist]

Best cat skin?

[shrewd night]

Purple one linked above

[normal mist]

That's mt right?

[waxen oyster]

How else am i going to flex on the peasants who didnt do the magetower

[normal mist]

My fav cat skin is the balance of power one, with the brownish colors iirc

[shrewd night]

Still kinda sad blizzard didnt add a burning broccoli shapeshift from tindral

[normal mist]

Feels like a real jungle cat

[runic hinge]

ferals will also complain when 60% of their damage comes from bite but then also complain they have no burst when they have to wait for bleeds to tick. they're an interesting bunch over there

[raven egret]

It'd be cursed if I had to play feral..
Real happy we have druids for Motw already

[fallen arch]

Bruh, we're back on ER? Fuck that shit

[raven egret]

Hello to you too

[normal mist]

Play CB

[raven egret]

[fallen arch]

Hello 😄

[shrewd night]

Nah, it makes sense. Biting feels good. But if you dont have burst or aoe you will do good in raids, but terrible in keys. So.

[raven egret]

Hey now, that's just mean!

[normal mist]

It is the only reasonable choice

If not er

[waxen oyster]

People play feral in keys?

[shrewd night]

All 3 of us

[waxen oyster]

I thought it was get asked why arent you boomy

[raven egret]

But.. I wouldn't wish CB on my worst enemy

[waxen oyster]

then get kicked

[fallen arch]

Which basically means ER is the only choice right

[clever sapphire]

the only bad part about ER is that you will put it on your dance bind

[raven egret]

Yeah it's a death loop

[clever sapphire]

and press it by accident before kb

[raven egret]

I put it on my dance bind, and I've not had that issue

I'm built different

[fleet pagoda]

I'd have that issue if it was off gcd

[runic hinge]

I got ksh in s3 in SLands by joining the key as boomy and changing over as the timer ticked down

[raven egret]

my man

[clever sapphire]

why did you have to flex on all of us

[shrewd night]

(boomy was lowkey fun in keys this season)
(real)
(no prank)

[raven egret]

I'm sorry, but it's not me, it's you~

Don't ping like that, not rocket science. Doing that won't help anything or do anything

Can I get access to ban this dude myself?

[clever sapphire]

[raven egret]

It'd be cathartic

[clever sapphire]

pvp people are wild

[bronze pike]

bye

[runic hinge]

realz ain't even the dev anymore

[bronze pike]

thats a rumor and shouldnt be said

[waxen oyster]

Yeah they have one unpaid intern on rogue balance

get your facts straight

[raven egret]

Don't talk about our assigned prairie dog like that

[shrewd night]

!ban @brittle jungle I know you left, but you are not welcome back.

[raven egret]

He shan't be missed

[orchid pewter]

[raven egret]

[runic hinge]

i mean it's not worse than people cussing him out and blaming him solely for all our problems but you're right im just adding to the rumors

[bronze pike]

ya i get it, it just something that shouldnt be said regardless

thoidoagreeirahterpeoplethinkhewasmovedthencontinuetomindlesslyblameaguy

[raven egret]

I'm sure there is a team of cats looking into rogues right now

Like actual cats

[clever sapphire]

so not feral players?

[fleet pagoda]

feral players may actually be cats

[rotund oak]

https://tenor.com/bUNpd.gif

[raven egret]

My cat is definitely feral

[rotund oak]

ferals IRL

[runic hinge]

I used to be a cat but now im a rogue

[shrewd night]

Like

You wont get me not to main multirole classes anymore.

Its just such a QoL to always be able to get into keys

[normal mist]

Yes, sorry for the delay

[runic hinge]

I should have done feral keys last season

[normal mist]

https://tenor.com/view/i-started-blasting-so-anyway-i-started-blasting-danny-devito-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-blasting-gif-24425727

[shrewd night]

Kinda fun polearm in next season too

[runic hinge]

Druid will get leveled 3rd but I think feral and assa play too much alike for me to play both in the same season

[grim jay]

How about they give feral a burst CD for their bleeds

Something new

Like Bitemark

Doubles bleeds for some time

[fleet pagoda]

is their cd not very bursty? I haven't seen them in action since s1

[grim jay]

Dang now I missed him because we ordered food at work

[marble crest]

hello all im plajnnin gon playing assassin rogue going into the next expacv but i often find my self out of energy quite often in ST does anyonie have any advice?

[plain jewel]

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:

• Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
• You can add in some sanguine/rupture value from carnage, but chaining allows for higher uptime and smoother energy overall, eliminating a lot of ramp at the start of a pull
• This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths (chain heavy spiteful weeks are only about -30% on stealths)
• You still have vanish which gives you plenty of options to get your stealth effects
• This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years

[runic hinge]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[shrewd night]

Convoke is very bursty, yep

[grim jay]

Convoke DN

[clever sapphire]

running out of energy is normal