assassination

[lean portal]

then early s3 get every external top details by 50k

good times

[proven jasper]

i told my guild i was bored af of sub and playing sin whether they liked it or not

That was s1 df

And it only got better while i played

[lean portal]

it was kinda bad in s3

thanks god sub was here for us

but after nerfs damn

the pi sims hit like crack

[proven jasper]

Eh it was fine it was just sub did the same shit but better

[lean portal]

yeah plus losing pi to hunts

[proven jasper]

Without pi also

Yeah

[lean portal]

sub was so broken lets be real

but now we eat rly well

feels so good to get pi

[proven jasper]

It was just really really good for the fights that had good timings

Like sub on smold lmfao

GG

[lean portal]

plus there is one SP per dungeon so free pi everywhere

[proven jasper]

True

[lean portal]

yeah sub on smold unbelievable

[proven jasper]

Being able to put ur cd’s wherever you want was really strong for smold turns out

[lean portal]

but im so glad sin is not int in keys anymore

so fun to play

[rotund oak]

sin rn feels amazing

[grand comet]

i might have a stupid question but i just want to clarify, do you guys try and rapture and garrote everything by swapping targets? or are you just sending it on main target and cleave with CT and the envenom explosion?

aoe seems to be the only problem i have atm with assa

[lean portal]

rupture more than 5 is kinda useless, rupture deals not that high dmg and mostly used for the agi buff + energy regen + caustic IMO

garrote dmg from stealth is rly good you can try to get 9 if there is ever 9 mobs but maybe you dont have time

usually i just get 5 garrote 5 rupture (by pressing both twice on same target)

[grand comet]

ok, this is what i wanted to clarify, thank you

because i was having issues spreading them by swapping targets and by that time mobs would be almost dead and no point in even using cds as it wouldnt even last an entire kb duration

[sullen kiln]

how much of my damage in m+ should be attributed to the skill crimson tempest?

[pseudo hamlet]

I think depends on pulls and different dungeons, even on affixes because some tanks wont pull much with bursting

[sullen kiln]

yah im new to rogue..so i guess im just trying to figure out when to use it. if its only worth on a big pull

[pseudo hamlet]

Pretty sure it's a nice ability, I am always using it on >3 targets 😄

[balmy condor]

4+

[sullen kiln]

ty

[royal lantern]

in normal m+ runs its probs in the #4-#2 spot overall

[cursive owl]

teaser OwO

blade for rogue UI

[balmy condor]

What’s that gonna show

[strange python]

Is this gonna end up like that guy selling his dh ui that told naguura hers is bad

And it was just

Way over the top crazy

[balmy condor]

Nah it’s probably fine

I did some custom UI element stuff as well but at some point it was just clutter

[strange python]

Oh no it looks good, it just looked like something from the ui

[balmy condor]

Ah

[clever sapphire]

nah from what i know is that he is just trying to make his own custom ui and just wanted to show it off

its a clean blade, not sure for what tho

[strange python]

https://youtu.be/-ZhlwKkQ5nw?si=ymo-XngNsNFnrQ2d

This what I’m talking about

Fucking peak content

[urban pumice]

Guys, does anyone knows which addon makes that? it shows a big garrote on the plater

[balmy condor]

Some PvP shit I think

Bigdebuffs or omnicc or one of those

[grand comet]

its NamePlateAuras

[nimble zinc]

uh I just realized I have 2 bullions sitting in my bag. what should i buy?

i already have ashes and greiftorch and a dagger, should i buy a 2nd dagger instead of trying to fish for upgrades? my lowest pc right now is a 480 ring from last season, so i thought about getting the fire shield ring just because its similar stat to my 480 ring (high mastery / some haste). plus a lil extra defensive

my current daggers are these. If I buy the fang on awakened, could i upgrade it to 515 for free since i alreayd have one at 515? that would give me 2x 515 daggers instead of a 515 and 499

[waxen oyster]

the ring is good because it maxes out at 535 the healing is almost nonexistent

[nimble zinc]

kk cool, i got the ring

[waxen oyster]

if you raid the sark cloak is good

[nimble zinc]

yeah i wasnt sure how many assa's took sark cloak

[waxen oyster]

for raid? It’s bis

[vital haven]

The greatest thing about the sark cloak is catalyzing it to 435 cloak

[waxen oyster]

I’m assuming if he still has a 515 mh

won’t be killing m sark

[nimble zinc]

yeah ive only done heroic raid, only 508.

gonna do mythic once i get to like 515+]

i do raid and keys

[waxen oyster]

You won’t pug mythic sark

[nimble zinc]

yeah i dont see my guild getting that far either, we've only ever done the first 2-3 on mythic

[nimble zinc]

535*?

[balmy condor]

Daggers, like rings, dont get the free upgrades until both slots reach that item level

[waxen oyster]

except for warriors

[balmy condor]

So you would need to get 515/515 in order to free upgrade to it

[waxen oyster]

for some reason

[nimble zinc]

good to know, I figured need both weapons at same ilvl, just wasnt sure if it was the exact same name if it would trip that

[real pike]

hello dudes, I'm being an idiot and can't work out why the wowhead guide says 5x tier piece is bis when flaring cowl sims at a decent dps improvement?

[balmy condor]

because you can't wear flaring cowl and 2x blue silk lining

since that would be 3 embellishments

[real pike]

ooooh it's an innate embellishment

idiocy solved

ty

[waxen oyster]

Is 5x tier actually bis

figured you just offpiece whatever rolls tert for assa

[balmy condor]

it's as bis as it gets

like pretty much every slot you can replace any given item with any other given item

and just swap gems

[marble hemlock]

could still just turn it into tier and then still wear 5 pieces if the secondaries end up better

[waxen oyster]

Yeah assa stats being flexible is nice for that.

Instead of like outlaw being vers to the moon

and sub being mastery to the moon

[marble hemlock]

i run flaring cuz healers in farm wanna have fun and that means not playing many healers

[real pike]

I wouldn't mind being able to stack a single stat tbh, it gets kinda long simming all the combinations to see which stat you need more of in your current state every time you get a new piece of gear

[marble hemlock]

so BSL uptime is kinda poopie

[waxen oyster]

Run ilvl

[real pike]

pretty sure it sims at 40% uptime and is still the clear best but I could be wrong

[waxen oyster]

I mean bsl you obviously chase a bit less mastery on gear.

But thats it

[real pike]

you just sim anyway I guess

stacking mastery sounds fun

[waxen oyster]

Idk historically for me

High crit on assa is fun

[real pike]

I actually have more vers than haste atm which is slightly wild

[marble hemlock]

https://i.imgur.com/aQtACl5.png and thats like 1/3rd just from flying in the air on the dragon with 100% HP

depending on fight and how many healers you drop, BSL uptime can definitely go way below 40

[real pike]

yeah everyone's mileage may vary ofc

I gear for raid tbh so 2x BSL is fine for me

[marble hemlock]

i also didnt have a good tier helmet until, well, still dont, so flaring was a natural choice

but ye, we have some choice there. with higher BSL uptime, it definitely wins

but if it drops during KB its just since it only checks every 2-3sec to reapply, evne if you get topped instantly from a heal or leech

[waxen oyster]

Thats a nice thing about cd specs though at least with BSL

[real pike]

I didn't know that, that's good info

[marble hemlock]

works the other way around too, if you drop to sub 90 for half a second, odds are youre not gonna lose the buff if you get topped quickly

[real pike]

wonder if it's worth finding a WA to track the 'check ticks' or if I'm overthinking as always

[marble hemlock]

it doesnt check every frame whether youre sub 90%, that'd end up being laggy

[real pike]

not sure how you'd adapt play

[marble hemlock]

youd have to know when those checks happen. thats not information you would have access to from the client-side, methinks

[waxen oyster]

True

Sub with that heal on finishers talent

[balmy condor]

like it matters in the first place

what would you even do with that information

[marble hemlock]

healthpot if youre sub 90% before the next tick

[waxen oyster]

Scream on discord

ig

[balmy condor]

"oh nice, check is coming in 1 second, good thing I'm above 90%"

and then you get tapped by some random mechanic

ggwp

[waxen oyster]

play a gromnak soundboard of him yelling heal me

whenever you drop below 90

[balmy condor]

good thing you had a weakaura I guess fucking bozo

[marble hemlock]

just healthstone or?

[gusty mirage]

@balmy condor hello former MDI contender Seli "Nova is his best feature" athan is playing cowl does that mean it is gud?

[marble hemlock]

bro we didnt even make it through time trials

cuz we wiped in neltharions lair for 50 or so hours

worst part about it was that i had to play windwalker the entire time

[gusty mirage]

bro why are you bringing reality into my joke

[marble hemlock]

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

I just hate how much we're going into "oh but if I just had a weakaura for that" every patch on completely unusable and irrelevant information

[marble hemlock]

you did it last time

[balmy condor]

it's like people tracking elaborate planning

like what are you doing

[marble hemlock]

what if we had a weakaura that alerted you to comments about weakauras that are unsuable and irrelevant, everytime one such comment is posted on RH, so when it happens, you are alerted ingame mid-fight?

[gusty mirage]

I'm just trying to eat my chicken in peace, I didn't need to be attacked like this

[waxen oyster]

Me every time I download a class pack

and have to delete shit that doesn’t affect my decision making

[marble hemlock]

why are you trying? makes it sound like youre failing to eat it in peace

[waxen oyster]

I like downloading a warrior pack and its tracking a passive talent buff

that I can’t influence my choice with

at all

[balmy condor]

a lot of wa packs just track everything

"it's a buff, so it must be tracked"

[gusty mirage]

why must you continue to attack me

[marble hemlock]

i love you oxi

[waxen oyster]

If you track envenom buff

[marble hemlock]

i hope your sjicken is very tasty

[waxen oyster]

why track elaborate planning

[balmy condor]

makes them feel like they're doing something important

[slate crown]

Downloads afenar

deletes 50% of the included auras

[balmy condor]

honestly

that's what I did

[waxen oyster]

LOL me

[balmy condor]

[waxen oyster]

I feel I play worse

[balmy condor]

its obvious within like 5 seconds on a dummy whether or not the weakaura pack was made by someone who plays rogue, or a code monkey with too much spare time

[waxen oyster]

until i delete half the auras

Some WA are clearly made

for people who dont show actionbars I guess

[real pike]

damn 😭 I even said you'd struggle to adapt play

[marble hemlock]

im not included in either, my WAs just look like they were made by a 4y old whose box of crayons only had 6 colors

[balmy condor]

I mean even without actionbars what are you getting

[real pike]

here's another massively overthinky question - on raidbots is the DPS margin for error per line or between the lines

[waxen oyster]

cd left on your defensives ig

[balmy condor]

the margin is per actor

any time raidbots reports a number, it's the median

which ends up being pretty much equal to the average given it's doing like 15,000 iterations per actor

[real pike]

ohhh so if the margin for error is 150 DPS, that's 75 each way per line (which I assume is the actor)?

rather than 150 each way

[balmy condor]

no

+- 150

means plus or minus 150

so it's 300 total

[real pike]

and that's per line, so really it could be 600 across 2?

[balmy condor]

what

no

okay, so each "line", we call an actor, cause it's basically a unique copy of your rogue

[real pike]

sweet

[balmy condor]

lets say your actor sims at 1,000 dps

and you have an error of +-10

that means that the specific actor simming for 1,000

could be in the range of 990 to 1010

it says nothing about any other actor

if you have another actor, say you simmed a trinket upgrade

and that's 1,050

it's 1040 to 1060

[real pike]

ok got that, so if I have one actor simming for 1000 and one simming for 9995 with an error of +-10, it could potentially be that the 1000 is 'actually' 9990 and the 9995 is 'actually' 1005 for a total error of 20

or is that not how it works at all and I'm a massive imbecile

[balmy condor]

well you're totalling the error

that's not how it works

you can't just add the errors together

the actors are simming to an error of +-0.05%

so each actor has a total error of 0.1%

that's why even when things are 0.1% apart, you might see them highlighted as sidegrades

raidbots cannot reliably tell the difference between the two

but just because actor A has an error of 0.1% and actor B also has an error of 0.1%

doesn't mean you get to say the error is 0.2%

they're 0.1% to themselves

not each other

[real pike]

yeah I was trying to work out the maximum 'wrongness' of the sim if that makes any sense at all

[balmy condor]

like lets say the two are perfectly equal right

they're both exactly 1,000

with no error

[real pike]

but an idiot so just going down the wrong path entirely

[balmy condor]

now you go and say they have an error of 1% each

that would be an error of +-5, or a total of 10

so they're both in the range of 995 to 1005

but adding that error together to get an error of 20, doesn't make sense

if you're trying to find out how much the total error is of the sim, then like yeah sure

but that doesn't mean anything, especially not with how raidbots works

because here's the complicated part

raidbots doesn't sim everything with 0.05% error

if you're gonna top gear a billion pieces together

and it had to compare them one by one with that tight of a tolerance

the sim would legit never finish

so it does it in stages

there's low, medium, and high

1%, 0.2%, and 0.05%

it does that to weed out the shit ones that it doesn't need to bother thinking about

[real pike]

yeah I see this when I sim and always wondered what it means

[balmy condor]

so if you're simming 1,000 different actors

and 900 of them have sepsis

900 of them are not worth the time simming

they're far worse

[real pike]

makes sense, where even with the maximum margin of error it's still way below so no point doing it more accurately?

[balmy condor]

yeah

like in that sepsis example

[real pike]

we're starting to understand

[balmy condor]

sepsis is like 3% worse atm

[real pike]

cogs are turning

[balmy condor]

so instead of needing to run each actor 15,000 times

it runs them like 1,000 times instead

which gets it to that 1% error margin

and it then goes "wow that's fucking terrible"

and tosses it

so then in medium you're left with all the actors that could possibly be better, process repeats

if it's noticeably worse at 0.2% error (say like 0.5% worse)

sim again goes "man that's trash"

and tosses it

so the high end where the 0.05% margin gets used, only applies to the top like 5-10 candidates

out of the pool of 1,000 you started with

[real pike]

makes so much sense

[balmy condor]

it still reports the numbers as well for what its worth

you might see some colored dots in your top gear sometimes

green yellow red

that indicates at what level it was simmed at

[real pike]

ohhh awesome, I mainly use gear compare and manually put in all the combinations I'm interested in but that's v good to know

[balmy condor]

theres this thing here

I just yoinked a sim from zac that was floating around

but you can see that the top 4 used the 0.05% margin

and then even though the +0.3% actor is an upgrade

it's still -0.6% to the top profile

so the sim tossed it

[real pike]

cool never knew what those dots were

and really at the end of the day if 2 different actors are within the margin of error to each other it really doesn't matter cause they're so close to each other it's entirely immaterial

[balmy condor]

my rule is honestly anything smaller than 0.3% is whatever

[real pike]

not worth regemming for

[balmy condor]

yeh

[real pike]

sweeeet

I guess I gotta stop trying to find miniscule gains from gear and just l2p for better throughput

a sad fact to face but a fact nonetheless 🥲

thanks for taking the time to explain yo

[balmy condor]

np

[gilded oasis]

Wanna see my 0.3%?

[balmy condor]

no

[gilded oasis]

[balmy condor]

its too small

[restive falcon]

[gilded oasis]

[inner pelican]

!dagger

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1181335994256064623/dagger.webp

[lethal onyx]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dark oxide]

i am ranked 583 assassination in the world. BOW TO ME

[balmy condor]

out of how many

actual question btw no flame

idk if that's mythic raid, heroic raid, m+

pvp

[dark oxide]

im assuming its mythic+

[balmy condor]

well where are you checking the ranking

[dark oxide]

https://raider.io/characters/us/tichondrius/Hyndrian

and going to spec ranks

[balmy condor]

yeah that's m+

[dark oxide]

yeehaw

[balmy condor]

[dark oxide]

i like assassination, i hope to get to 3k io soon

[elfin monolith]

Do we pop ashes at the same time as deathmark, or nearing the end of kingsbane so we have a higher amount of agi before it decays for the last tick?

[silk bane]

best use 3 seconds after DM, but also u can macro it to DM and its fine

[elfin monolith]

how much of a difference is there? thanks a lot for the info

[silk bane]

very little, not a meaningful difference

[elfin monolith]

understood, cheers

[balmy condor]

Just a minor correction, add it to your dance/kb macro, not dm

[elfin monolith]

Oh okay

thanks!

[balmy condor]

Dm is a bit worse

[silk bane]

thanks whispyr, i learned too! ❤️

[balmy condor]

Shikanoko nokonoko koshitantan

[marble hemlock]

bless you

[silk bane]

my "deer" friend whispyr ❤️

[balmy condor]

Thanks

[rotund oak]

Bucks fan spotted

[grand comet]

is it ok to sim dslice for aoe? or 1.5m 5 targets?

[rotund oak]

dslice is fine yeah

but idk what kind of ''aoe'' u want specifically

if its a 3t scenario or anything that could vary alot

[grand comet]

m+ aoe mostly

[rotund oak]

so u wanna sim for m+

[grand comet]

yeah

[rotund oak]

ye Dslice is very cool

[grand comet]

awesome ty

[rotund oak]

yw fam

[balmy condor]

“Very cool” is relative here btw

[rotund oak]

more insight plz

[balmy condor]

Dslice is like drinking rat poison when your other options are cyanide

[rotund oak]

pencil is rdy

so its the least worse

[balmy condor]

Like is it the best option? Yeah

Is it good? No

[grand comet]

[balmy condor]

Simming m+ is kind of a futile effort to begin with

like simming a raid boss it's 1 target

okay fine

if there's adds you take caustic

ggwp job done close enough

m+ you sim dslice, but it's a synthetic sim that just has restealths and a variety in situations

there's a boss, some small cleave, some aoe

it's just a jumble of whatever

does it match a dungeon? not really

and then there's dungeonroute, or mdt sim, whatever you want to call it

where you can export an mdt route to a sim, and sim that

but that's kinda shit too

cause it has no variety at all

you run the same dungeon twice, the timing is off cause your 3rd dps in the pug sucks

[rotund oak]

yeah was trying to process that

[balmy condor]

gg

dungeonroute doomed

[rotund oak]

yup

[balmy condor]

it's too specific

so like

it's just kinda doomed

you either sim the thing that's very generic and doesn't match up with your dungeon

and say "well it's probably close enough"

which is dungeonslice, what we do now

[rotund oak]

or get the general idea of whats capable of

yeah

[balmy condor]

or you get WAY too specific and sim a dungeon itself, but that's shit

or you sim patchwerk aoe like mages recommend

which also sucks shit

cause dungeons are more than a 5 target 40 second sim

[rotund oak]

mages now sim secondary stats btw

[balmy condor]

yeah idk what the fuck they're cooking

mages cannot be saved

[rotund oak]

crazy if u think about it ''sim vers now'' over my crit break point

[balmy condor]

regardless, trying to sim for m+ ends up being an exercise in statistics

you're either too broad or too specific

and nothing in the middle is possible

technically the perfect middle would be dungeonroute with variance

but if you add variance to dungeonroute

it's actually going to take DAYS to sim

so it's not supported

there's legit no good way to do it

[rotund oak]

we are either too young in terms of tech or variance is so big that makes everything kinda sus when it comes to sims

and it makes perfect sense the way uve put it

[balmy condor]

I don't think it's too young in terms of tech

it's legit just computers aren't strong enough to run the data sets that would be necessary

[rotund oak]

yeah by tech i mean actual technology software/hardware n stuff

[balmy condor]

yeh

I have an API key for raidbots

I ran one sim comparing 4 talent builds

in a dungeonroute setup that had all 8 dungeons

it was like dungeonslice, but instead of 6 minutes with variance

it's like 5 hours

with no variance

[rotund oak]

[balmy condor]

and the variance is just the length

I started the sim at 2:30am before I went to bed

[rotund oak]

thats crazy

[balmy condor]

I woke up at noon

wasn't done

I went to work at 5pm, wasn't done

I came home at 1:30am after work

wasn't done

[rotund oak]

wtf man

[balmy condor]

I went to bed at 3am, wasn't done

I woke up the next day at 9:30am for my next work shift

95%

[rotund oak]

[balmy condor]

noon that day, it finished

that's not a top gear sim, that's just comparing the 4 most common builds together

[rotund oak]

yeah

[balmy condor]

and it was within like 2.5% of dungeonslice

so

kinda whatever

[distant ridge]

u were simming how to conquer azeroth or what

[balmy condor]

it was just the 8 dungeons in the pool, back to back

with a break inbetween to reset cds

but like imagine if any person decided to compare trinkets, or embellishments

on that timeframe

it would be days for a single sim

and that's using raidbots, a cloud service with fucking server infrastructure

it's just not realisitic

computers aren't strong enough to run that math in a reasonable timeframe for the average user

[distant ridge]

optimization left the building

u are stuck in a sim

for days

[balmy condor]

dungeonslice is the optimization

[distant ridge]

imagine

[balmy condor]

that's why dungeonslice is 6 min

they took a full dungeon

and then squished the 45 min dungeon

to 6 min

to get "close enough"

that's what birthed it in the first place

[distant ridge]

using the fully ''optimised'' route and still having those kind of results

damn

[balmy condor]

m+ sims, since legion

have just been trying to get close enough

but realistically I don't think dungeonslice is reliable beyond maybe +- 2-3% error

if something is -5% in dungeonslice

I'm convinced that there's probably some situation where it's better

some dungeon in the pool will fit that profile better

talent wise, gear is a little bit easier cause like

secondaries are a meme

but if you're comparing the different builds to each other?

fucking forget it lmao

people be playing crazy shit but it just doesn't matter

and that's cause it actually doesn't

play an m+ build with DTB

now your damage is in kingsbane and caustic

but you lose a couple casts over the course of the dungeon cause you're holding or the mob dies early

GG

it might have simmed 0.5% better

but you lost like 6 kingsbanes worth of damage over the course of the key

it's just a giant fucking mess

[rotund oak]

in terms of actual accurate numbers it might be very hard to accurately simulate

just the general idea/behaviour 🤝

[balmy condor]

yeah

it's basically impossible

[silver crag]

If you are not stealthed and you have no vanish on m+, should you manually apply 3-5 raptures and then proceed to normal rotation? Also if you have CDs, should you use the shadow dance window to apply bleed with IC?

[balmy condor]

if you can't spread bleeds through carnage, you should be trying to manually spread just enough to maintain energy

you can use shadow dance to spread dots, especially garrote

[silver crag]

And just enough to max scent of blood I assume. So you can rapture the main target, mutilate for spatter, dm sd kb and spread bleeds while maintaining envenom

And shiv ofc

[balmy condor]

if you don't have carnage, trying to max out scent is just simply too slow in 99% of situations

[toxic olive]

Stupid beginner question: Is is fine to refresh Rupture during KB if I can keep Env up or should i outside pandemic refresh rupture if it would fall off during KB, or well let it fall off and refresh thereafter?

[balmy condor]

technically you can refresh rupture during kb, yes

practically that's actually quite difficult

but you shouldn't really be in the situation where you need to rupture during kb to begin with

[lean portal]

personally i rupture once for caustic and start typing to my tank

[silver crag]

Noted, I should make some killer macros for that

[lean portal]

but its rare since you have 1 carnage window per minute + the vanish every 2m

rarely get fucked by a link nowadays

[toxic olive]

was talking strictly ST i should have specified

[balmy condor]

doesn't change the answer

[toxic olive]

i kinda miss to see why it wouldn't - KB is 14 seconds after the initial window where you applied rupture just before, why wouldn t at some point the remaining duration of rupture be sub KBs duration?

probably i oversee something

[balmy condor]

because kb isn't 14 seconds after rupture

[lean portal]

yeah u never need to rupture in kb

if you garrote ambush rupture

[balmy condor]

this is basically as slow as it gets

[lean portal]

your rupture easily covers your kb window and beyond

[balmy condor]

and that's barely 8 seconds

6 cp rupture is 28 seconds

so you're be going into KB with 20 seconds on rupture

[toxic olive]

yeah i dont mean the very opener, there its clear, but down the line particular if you have to hold the window for a couple of seconds because the boss asks for it, as some point you might end up where rupture is still outside of pandemic but lower than 14 seconds - at least in theory

[strange python]

Is that a double tee in kb whispyr????

Can we double tea now?

[balmy condor]

Not my log

But yeah fuck it yolo

[strange python]

I know I’m just pulling ur leg

[balmy condor]

I guess so?

I don’t remember it ever lining up like that

[toxic olive]

yeah its like 99% on me not playing it clean yet just try to figure out the very basics so your insight is highly apprechiated

[balmy condor]

Idk man

Stop playing it wrong I guess

You never want to drop rupture so probably rupture if necessary

[rotund oak]

the rupture pandemic refresh has more than the dmg aspect to it

u gain some seconds u might need coz reasons e.g mechanics,phasing

stuff like that

letting rupture fall off is considered bad,asked whispyr myself on that

[limber lion]

You asked Whispyr if letting Rupture drop is bad?

[rotund oak]

Can recall asking if delaying rupture for an envenom and refreshing right after worths

even if it drops ye

[limber lion]

Alright

Just super basic stuff, figured it was obvious but maybe not.

[rotund oak]

yup

its ok,i was stupid to let it drop

now i dont

[limber lion]

That's how you get better

[rotund oak]

my ''not less than that'' zone is 4sec

[limber lion]

Fixing mistakes

Easypeasy

[limber lion]

It should be 7.2s

Because that's the pandemic

:--)

But yeah it doesn't matter if you refresh at 7s or 0.1s

[rotund oak]

my will is too weak man 😦

[limber lion]

as long as it never drops

[rotund oak]

yup

[limber lion]

It's all good

[rotund oak]

u also never made the logs public

dont get me started on you now

[limber lion]

Used to be

Not anymore

🕺

[rotund oak]

Now that there is no point holding logs from previous expansions and no one rly cares sure

i wanted to study for my 99s

[limber lion]

It's okay there's plenty of gamers whose logs you can study

[rotund oak]

💀

not many rogues i can learn from

plus u got the reputation

[subtle tundra]

not like i want to teach you

🔥

[rotund oak]

thats like throwing me a bone and keep the steak for u

[rotund oak]

😂

thats the way

[worthy cobalt]

What changed and made us swap places with Subelty on raid rankings..?

Did I miss a patch?

[subtle tundra]

the change where sub logs are bugged and miss a big portion of their dmg

[worthy cobalt]

Alright, but that wouldn't explain us suddenly outranking all the other specs too

[subtle tundra]

the 7% dps buff we got a few weeks back

[worthy cobalt]

I mean, now I'm second-guessing myself but weren't we performing close to last in logs on mythic raids?

[subtle tundra]

but thats old shit

[worthy cobalt]

Oh shit, we got that? Okay yeah I missed that

thanks

lmao

[subtle tundra]

so now we're the best PI spec and always get it(well i dont)

[worthy cobalt]

6% dps increase, 29th of may + fixing set bonus

is that the one you are referring to? That's not weeks old though

[drifting cloud]

its from may 7th

[clever sapphire]

6% + pi + wft + simping + bis gear

that can boost your dps by a lot

[hearty coral]

amplify poison o deadly posion? which one is better? im lvl 42

[limber lion]

Amp > Deadly

[royal lantern]

if you skill a poison, its probably because you wanna use it, or not?

😄

[limber lion]

Hey now you have to talent into Deadly Poison as well

[cold island]

!GUIDE

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[potent raven]

@clever sapphire finally a timed pisslow neltharus

[clever sapphire]

do i even dare question what pisslow is for mr 15-16 depleter?

[potent raven]

its a 13 its my worst key

i just didnt know how to play it

was yoloing

had to watch a yt guide

[clever sapphire]

neltharus is a shit key so its fine

also smashing 2 fotm specs

[potent raven]

i havent played keys srs for a few days now :( im behind the curve by a lot

[clever sapphire]

keep it up

[potent raven]

bro

i made a mage

i called it Magicianqq

thought of Magusqq but thats too troll

LOL

finna fotm this szn so hard

[clever sapphire]

i thought about being fotm, i got bored of ranged because too little things happen there

[grim jay]

I only get bored farming gear on my ranged. if I'm lucky enough to get what I want decently fast, I have a blast. playing fire on low keys just aint it

and frost isnt too much fun tbh

[clever sapphire]

ah i only play arcane, find the other 2 boring (assuming i even touch that)

i tried shadow priest because i thought cool ghosts and dots and whatnot

but it was just boring

[grim jay]

kinda am hyped for arcane in tww. changes look good, even the simplifications, which I usaully am not a fan of, are pretty good in that case

I miss mage mobility if I play any other caster

[clever sapphire]

wait what did they change on arcane

i only keep up with rogue

legit no idea about any other spec/class

[potent raven]

ye i was gonna play fire

it looked kinda entertaining

but im like lvl 15 i need to lvl+gear

gonna take so long man

[clever sapphire]

i dunno, fire looks the most boring to me from the 3 mage specs somehow

[dark token]

Fire mage is literally outlaw

Hate it

[grim jay]

nah man

dont insult it like that

if anything at all its like s1 sub

with higher highs and lower lows

[grim jay]

they remove radiant spark and bake it into touch of the magi and stuff like that

arcane missiles only usable as proc

iirc

[dark token]

Nah lol it literally has crackshot windows where u try to spam as much as possible

[ebon quest]

!dagger

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1181335994256064623/dagger.webp

[dark token]

And ur spamming builders and finishers to get back into the windows faster outside of them too

[grim jay]

idk if I would compare combust to crackshot

[grim jay]

sounds like dance with sub cdr

[dark token]

It's similar cdr mechanic, triggered by skb or combust button (dance/vanish)

And super spam in the window

[hearty coral]

shiv full should last forever

[grim jay]

what

[hearty coral]

shiv buff*

[clever sapphire]

so remove shiv?

[grim jay]

thats basically what appeared in my mind aswell

[dark token]

They should remove snd, remove shiv, remove KB, remove dance.

Remove envenom, remove mutilate, remove deathmark. All our dmg should just be bleeds poisons and autoatks

The true flat line spec

[boreal cloud]

[sick umbra]

What is the best rotation for assassin rogues for keys ?

[dark token]

So what youre gonna do is youre gonna garret1, garret2, garret3, rupture, exsanguinate, vendeta. Boom fucking 40k DPS dude

[frosty bridge]

how doy ou reset last 2 mobs nokhud before last boss

im nelf but

can i like throw poison knife

or will the poison keep me in combat after meld

[sick umbra]

I’m not sure what build that is since I don’t have vendetta or exsanguinate

[grim jay]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[distant helm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-wINzrcgMM

legendary

[grim jay]

oh brother

a musclebrah video

[distant helm]

top tier meme

[spice spire]

How the fuck tho

[clever sapphire]

pug AV slaps (still timed the 12 )

[potent raven]

u guys like the pull

[subtle tundra]

Its not a video

[clever sapphire]

that pull is fine

[subtle tundra]

It's the video

[clever sapphire]

i hate the pull after 1st boss more

[grim jay]

isnt every musclebrah video

[clever sapphire]

5 frontal boys or so

[grim jay]

THE video

[clever sapphire]

frontals all over the place

[subtle tundra]

Nah, that one is the video

Everything else from that guy is irrelevant

[potent raven]

this ones better

[clever sapphire]

i like that pull too

[potent raven]

lmao

[clever sapphire]

is uldaman a numbing or atrohpic angle

[lean portal]

details not covering 40% of screen = invalid UI

[potent raven]

that tank was insane

fck i need to stop dying so much

[lean portal]

what is a numbing angle

current season ?

genuine question

[latent copper]

in raid do i always evenom at 6 cp if Buff is still up and i got time to build up to 6?

[clever sapphire]

im pretty sure a key like bracken, a lot of casts and melee hits, last boss totem also affected if im not wrong

[willow chasm]

hi what is the best neck for assa ? I see people with lariat other whit jonc i dont know what i need to craft

[clever sapphire]

4+ is the general rule, so you dont waste any cp when building to 6

[latent copper]

ok and when i got 4 and blindside proc is up i still send up with 4?

[potent raven]

numbing poison

its better for mobs apparently

idk i always play atrophic its like 3% dr

[frosty bridge]

wait so

we cant live gale arrow

with just feint

i got oneshot on +17

[potent raven]

yes u cant

are u using

[grim jay]

if you have low vers and no 20%feint then you cant

bcs normal feint is useless

[potent raven]

elu?

[frosty bridge]

with elu yes

23% vers

[grim jay]

did you swap to DR phial before?

[frosty bridge]

oh

DR phial

good point

[real sinew]

U should be able to

[potent raven]

use that addon

[grim jay]

also I assume you are not using cloak and are like 525

[potent raven]

notevenclose

i think

to see 100%

[grim jay]

I typically only use the website

[frosty bridge]

526 no cloak

[lean portal]

do u have elusiveness ?

[frosty bridge]

yes

[lean portal]

damn

[grim jay]

yeah that wouldve been the phial

[lean portal]

lets stack versa ig

[potent raven]

you can use

[frosty bridge]

ye i gotta use DR phial

[potent raven]

vers/mastery crafts for m+ i think they're good

[frosty bridge]

or tepid vers at least

[potent raven]

and vers phial or dr phial

genuinely works good if u have enough crit/haste on ur other gear

lol

[grim jay]

idk I usually go the safe route with dr phial, its quite a bit more than vers

and safe for some oopsies

on that boss

[frosty bridge]

mind you

[potent raven]

im planning to make 2 separate gear sets

1 for m+ 1 for raid

with vers/mast and crit/mast

[frosty bridge]

thing is

i rerolled from outlaw

i have 2x crit vers daggers too

i thought 23% vers was plenty tbh

[potent raven]

it is

for assa

but ye thats the thing for that

assa just dies

[grim jay]

I think im only at 25ish aswell for m+

its just how it is as sense said

which is kinda sad to say

ngl

[potent raven]

u need to be hyper aware

of stuff thats about to hit you

bosses specifically

[lean portal]

u never have enough

legit you can have 35 versa and be chilling

stats are so minor in assa

[potent raven]

if you stack vers it wont be that much damage loss anyway

[frosty bridge]

ye i am so confused

last week i was still outlaw

50% vers with flask

[grim jay]

@frosty bridge I mean did you use evasion aswell?

[frosty bridge]

well

cloak 1st

evasion 2nd

[lean portal]

you can play assa with whatever stats and lose rly few dmg

[frosty bridge]

feint 3rd

[lean portal]

especially in m+

[potent raven]

3rd is

[grim jay]

heal cd for 3rd?

[potent raven]

u get cr'd

[grim jay]

depending on healer its kinda fine

also heal or tank should run ward

at that point

[frosty bridge]

i didnt call it i thought there is no way i ned

im so used to being outlaw, pressing feint, chilling

[grim jay]

yeah they kinda need to give sin a little something

for survivability

[potent raven]

the play for m+ is to use vers rings and vers/mast crafted gear

for high keys for assa

100%

vers phial

etc

[grim jay]

yeah vers does sim pretty good for me for m+ anyways

[frosty bridge]

what talents do people run in algethar

+19 should i go more aoe or more piro thingy

[royal lantern]

nah

deffensives need a nerf across the board, they went waaaay to far for a few classes/specs (and ofc adjust fight dmg taken)

[real sinew]

Buff sub

[royal lantern]

when "X rogue spec is not tanky enough" is a thing people can say in a serious manner, something is really fucking wrong

[royal lantern]

secret tech yourself into a anime convention

[frosty bridge]

QUICK QUESTION

WHAT STAT

IN AGLETHAR

from the buff guys

do high keys take vers or mastery

[subtle tundra]

Buddy you're in a 19 nobody here has done 19

[grim jay]

I always take vers

[frosty bridge]

i wont time it

but 18 seems doable

[subtle tundra]

Not with that mentality

[frosty bridge]

[hearty coral]

12bv q

[grim jay]

ty for the enlightenment brother

[hearty coral]

XD sorry, i left my headset on the keyboard

[clever sapphire]

man i played a few keys with hybrid build and now im back to shock build. Having blindside just feels soooo much better

[potent raven]

ikr

[frosty bridge]

ok

wiped on first boss

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1094040617501343824/1246848476843737270/image.png?ex=665de1a2&is=665c9022&hm=24666bc341bd06adf6c38de6c331953044d73b5b2768d1fb2227986e2db02166&

[potent raven]

how

[royal lantern]

ambush glowing make brain send the Happy Happy chemicals

[clever sapphire]

jokes aside, yap, me pressing my extra ambush keybind no matter my energy just makes brain happy

[potent raven]

ye procs feel nice

always

any1 in here lvling anything

wanna lvl with me

[frosty bridge]

just first pull padding

i reckon people who are actually good assa do 5-6mil there

[rotund oak]

my biggest must have been on RLP,was close to 3.2M

but ive got mediocre gear

can easily burst to 1.2-1.5M

i think

[frosty bridge]

ye this was 1st pull algethar, did 5.6 on +18 now

[rotund oak]

sexy

[frosty bridge]

priest kinda died

[rotund oak]

🤣

[potent raven]

bro getting pi n aug buffs best gameplay of ur life lol

[frosty bridge]

ye ofc

[rotund oak]

u minmax that sht 24/7 on high keys

[frosty bridge]

no PI this time

he died

on the 5.6 mil

[frosty bridge]

and DH and vers from druid :D

[dark token]

Always vers

The mastery is much less stat point value than 5% flat vers

It's like 2x or more value than the other buffs

[dark token]

Ur priest awful

Rip

[frosty bridge]

yy

[lean portal]

AA you can have 1m overall heading to second boss

scary times

[pure moth]

Last time I was in AA.. the prot warrior kept pulling all the trash at once and died within seconds. Rinse repeat prob had 20 something deaths to this.

[potent raven]

thats normal

u need at least 10 tries b4 u find the normal aa tank

[frosty bridge]

Ye idk

i feel like im plaing really bad still

850k overall

prolly getting a coaching sesh from @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

You don’t need my help

[earnest remnant]

what if i just setup a coaching session just for you to degrade me and point out every little minute detail that i fuck up over a key?

[junior aurora]

i dont think its healthy for him to divulge in ur kinks

[spice spire]

Bro just ask him to call u bad words that’ll be easier for ur kink

[earnest remnant]

what if the 2 things combine is what i want``

huh?

then what?

[spice spire]

Fucked up

[hearty coral]

Anyone with the class mount? I should lvl to 70 so is easier to finish the quest or i can do it being 50? I need breaching the tomb and hall class.

[frosty bridge]

wdym

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bsJLEMf52T8oGu2BtuxmqTlSlXkUEr7kRA5C7_PAX94/edit

3 years ago w t f

[balmy condor]

Yes

3 years ago

[frosty bridge]

this was when i briefly raided with @earnest remnant

[balmy condor]

Be like that

[hot vortex]

an entire discord for rogues, beast.

[frosty bridge]

ye well

i'd legit pay you a wow token or two to take a look at a vod or so

[earnest remnant]

you quit on me

[frosty bridge]

im sorry man trust me biggest regret of my wow career

Never date Danish women

[earnest remnant]

as a part dane, i couldve told you that

[balmy condor]

What about a part woman

[frosty bridge]

[earnest remnant]

i dont have the facilities for that

[proven jasper]

[silk bane]

my friends in a talking stage with one rn. what should I tell him?

[earnest remnant]

run

[frosty bridge]

cant talk

current gf danish

[silk bane]

bros being held as a hostage cant talkf freely

shes here as exchange student for 2 semesters, cant be that bad right? i wont be losing bro right?

[frosty bridge]

[keen spruce]

gm assas

[silk bane]

ill miss seing bro in class then. was fun knowing him

[halcyon rose]

@oak sky @bleak sky long time no see my friends :)

[shy pecan]

Good morning Quacktain

[hot vortex]

@halcyon rose your welcome for bully to rejoin an entire discord for rogues bro, this is an amazing place.

[royal lantern]

what

[bleak sky]

yo wtf????

[spice spire]

[left radish]

Hello. I have a question to 2 specific scenarios (which are very similar to each other).

1. A pull of multiple split groups is about to happen (let's say something akin to Ruby Life Pools, first pull to the guys that appear in the doorway). Do you wait until the tank has pulled everything or do already start spreading your dots on the first group, even though you know that 2 more are following in a second? Do you by chance Vanish/Shadow Dance only just to get more Garrotes out as well as Rupture?

2. The tank pulls a group and you start to spread your dots. 5 seconds later, the tank decided to pull another group, which you did not know about/expect. What do you do in this? Same as above? Vanish/Shadow Dance only to spread more Garrotes and Ruptures? (An example for this one would be Neltharus first pull when you're going left to the doorway. A couple of guys appear there which the tank can pull to that pull).

I hope it's understandable what I mean. In some situations there was a mob I could Kingsbane and at least some more mobs had Garrotes on them, but other times I had nothing and then I tried to Fan of Knives into Rupture a couple of mobs to get more stuff out, but no idea if that's the right idea there

[hot vortex]

dude says its a comeback but won't get a subscription, so sad.

[rotund oak]

u raided with the racoon man?

interesting

[keen spruce]

start spreading dots during the gather unless your tank is going to have like 0 threat on anything.

Generally vanish/dance will be used with DM/KB, a few mobs without bleeds on them isn't a big deal

often you don't even prioritize getting bleeds on every mob in the pull. you want to get a few out during subterfuge and start your burst as soon as possible so that mobs have a better chance to living through the whole duration of your kingsbane

[keen spruce]

[frosty bridge]

yes bro learned from the best but im still shit

[rotund oak]

shots fired @earnest remnant

[frosty bridge]

[left radish]

Thanks for the advice, it is very much appreciated!

[keen spruce]

[pure moth]

I found mine the other day too. I was like this is old

[pearl dagger]

is using hekili trolling myself?

[weak cypress]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[royal lantern]

yes

[pearl dagger]

any better rotation helper addons you recommend

[royal lantern]

not using rotation helpers

[keen spruce]

the best way to help your rotation is to learn your rotation

[keen spruce]

I just pretended like I was right until I got ridiculed into changing my ways

[dark token]

I recommend not using them, and iteratively reading the rotation, trying it out, then looking at logs for your mistakes and repeat

you get it down pretty quick

Usually for a completely new class it takes me like a day to not be a noob and 1-2 weeks to do pretty well

[pearl dagger]

ya never played rogue before ill have to get rid of hekili and try without

[dark token]

It's kind of a fun process

[keen spruce]

give it a few minutes on the target dummy and you'll be better off

[proven jasper]

Understanding what ur abilities actually do is helpful it turns out

[pure moth]

@keen spruce I just never changed my ways. No ones told me otherwise though. Last season I was a place holder for people not to get burnt out. I thought it was cuz I was new... so just used when needed. But it was a shit season guild wise

[royal lantern]

the basic rules are not really that hard

[keen spruce]

i think it was a shit season for a lot of guilds

[royal lantern]

like, for assa the core gameplay loop is "keep bleeds running all the time, dumb your CP bettwen re-applying bleeds into envenom"

[pure moth]

Yeah I was in 3 guilds. Second one gave me 2 pulls on smolderon and thought I was sub.. so was replaced

They still wiped on smolderon all night though. So was kinda funny.

[keen spruce]

[pure moth]

I got up to tindral though so can't complain. Was still shitty.

[nimble zinc]

I second this but I’m also superbly ADHD with terrible short term memory. So I use hero rotation which I find to be 99% accurate. Every once in a while it doesn’t tell me if a CD is up or something. But I can usually tell by looking at my bars and press it anyway.

And like I’m 50/50 whether I should pop potion of power or ashes before I hit DM and KB or like 5-6 sec after I hit KB.

Hero will also tell you to spam tea to keep the mastery buff up. But you have to just ignore that and manage your energy wisely.

[keen spruce]

Finding reasonable and level headed leadership right below that CE level is like impossible. It’s such a slog working with or through those guilds

[pure moth]

Yeah for real. I've seen alot s3. Awful

[full summit]

i heard assassination is really good rn?

fact or cap?

[red wolf]

Fax no printer

[limber lion]

"I’m sure your guild is lucky to have you, and I hope you can show them the rogue power :D"

🥶

[frosty bridge]

Did you mean that? @balmy condor 👉 👈

[balmy condor]

I mean it’s not templated

So I guess I did

[keen spruce]

[marble hemlock]

i heard you cant lick your own elbow

[balmy condor]

true

[marble hemlock]

we can lick each others tho

[keen spruce]

That’s crazy I can lick whispyr’s elbow too

[balmy condor]

we could

start of august

putting it in my calendar

[marble hemlock]

birthday present for me?

[balmy condor]

whens your birthday

[marble hemlock]

8/4/88

[balmy condor]

damn you're fucking old

but yah I'm still in germany on 8/4

perhaps some elbow licking can occur

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitty-kiss-lick-gif-21156442

who is the orange cat

[balmy condor]

oxi

[marble hemlock]

nah

orange is clearly ronkles

[balmy condor]

but ronkles is purple

[marble hemlock]

not deep inside

[balmy condor]

also ronkles is a dog

[marble hemlock]

were all dogs deep inside

[keen spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/stupid-dog-exercise-gif-22332249

[latent copper]

in ST Bossfights while Kingsbane is Evenom or Rupture higher prio? should i cast Rupture or Evenom if both Buffs are up?

[balmy condor]

well if rupture is up, why would you cast it again

[keen spruce]

Rupture only maintain

[latent copper]

dunno i saq in a timeline of a rogue...thats why i asked. Im Cofused 😄

so i only cast Evenom, right?

[balmy condor]

envenom is your filler, and increases poison application chance

so whenever rupture is already on the target

you envenom

rupture is just a dot

[rotund oak]

Sin feels amazing 😍

smashing ppl 6-8ilvls above me in the meters

actually in love

[keen spruce]

[latent copper]

but should i rupture while kingsbane as well or is it better to cast before and after?

[balmy condor]

before and after

[latent copper]

ty

[balmy condor]

it's crazy how much people shit on sin for feeling awful and then it got a 6% buff and now it's incredible

[latent copper]

its as well cauze of rotation helper and normally i know it but in Raid it says i shoud rupture while KB....thats confusing

so this Rotation helper again dumb

[rotund oak]

i always liked sin,ppl are just stupid,they dont understand what thye see

[balmy condor]

true

[balmy condor]

there's very specific cases where the sim will rupture during kingsbane, but a lot of things need to be true for that, and as a player it's just not worth trying to min-max that 0.1% dps

if you rupture without all the conditions it's a pretty big fuckup

[rotund oak]

i swear there was this dh,the dude whispered me ''assa rogue doesnt do dmg,go outlaw''

[balmy condor]

so just ain't it

[latent copper]

ok ty

[rotund oak]

we qued into the same key (a +10 NO completely destroyed him)

[silk bane]

u know whats insane, for like 2 days i went through people saying "oh sins base tree is so fucked and we didnt get any changes tww is doomed posts" and like asked them to tell me whats wrong with sin right now that they want fixed, and litearlly 1 singular person had anything to reposnd. and that response was "oh just too much reliance on kb". people just shit on sin for litearlly no reason they dont even know how this shit works just doom and youll be fine

[lean portal]

assa is also good these days cause there are sp eveywhere

free pi for all

[rotund oak]

even without pi

[lean portal]

makes our overalls better for sure

[rotund oak]

sin does alot of dmg

ofc it does 100%

[lean portal]

but yeah still is great without true

it was always decent cause iron wire and good prio dmg etc etc

glad they buffed it to good

fun to play for sure

[rotund oak]

sin is beautiful and well rounded

u just need to udnerstand it

[lean portal]

definitly felt bad last szn at some point

[latent copper]

when was a 6% buff? 😄

[lean portal]

in keys being less tanky for no gain and in raid losing pi

rough days

[balmy condor]

according to the pin, about a month ago

[lean portal]

even tho the rework was mega fun