assassination

[balmy condor]

That’s the core of the chain

[quaint hull]

In keeping the chain going, you will run out of energy. You need to keep the chain going while maintaining uptime on bleeds and getting ready for KB DM.

[balmy condor]

You want to envenom in envenom over and over and over

[autumn frost]

I get that.

[quaint hull]

Then thats it. Thats more dmg.

[autumn frost]

What i'm trying to say, is that in a raid fight if there's a lull do i make a judgement call

Going to be a lull

[primal jolt]

hey all i have a quick question, i came back in to ass rogue and geared it up a bit but im simming really really low for my ilvl

i feel like

im doing basically my sim damage but its really dissapointing

[balmy condor]

Judgement call on what

[quaint hull]

You get your bleeds out. Then you pool energy.

[autumn frost]

Like if we gotta do mechanics it's hard to focus on the envenom chain. ANd if you're moving a lot

[balmy condor]

What does simming really low mean

[primal jolt]

look

[balmy condor]

Skill issue

[quaint hull]

lmao literally.

[autumn frost]

then waiting for 280 energy feels bad.

[primal jolt]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xdMEza4gsBZfTQsqAiaWdk

im doing 145k as 482

ST

[quaint hull]

dog you got no tierset.

you new to wow?

[primal jolt]

AHHAHAHA WAIT

im actually

braindead

HAHAHA

i feel so stupid holy shit

[balmy condor]

And no trinkets

[primal jolt]

i forgot

[autumn frost]

There are plenty of raid fights where we gotta do mechanics. I'm trying to wonder if I cloak to avoid losing the chain

[primal jolt]

about tier sets

HAHAHA

[autumn frost]

because you guys are saying it's important to do the chain, or is the difference minimal

[primal jolt]

sorry im so dumb

KEK

[autumn frost]

Then picking it up again after moving out

[balmy condor]

Chain is like 1.5-2% dps

Doing it correctly

[quaint hull]

Doing mechanics while doing dmg is the essence of being a good dps. No one said its ez bro.

The sim says what the sim says.

[balmy condor]

Yeh, anyone can hit a dummy and do dps

[autumn frost]

I'm just trying to value things so I know when how much I would sacrifice to keep the chain going.

That's all

[balmy condor]

Well you shouldn’t need to sacrifice anything

Is the point

[autumn frost]

if it's 1.5 to 2% then I'm not going to stress about using cloak to ignore a mechanic.

And keep it defensively perse.

[quaint hull]

Among the best rogue players. Using cloak to do more dmg is very common.

[autumn frost]

I'm aware.

That's why i was asking this question.

I wanted to know the nuance of it.

[balmy condor]

I parse 98 in mythic and the only time I cloak for offense is on pull on mythic fyrakk

[quaint hull]

During your KB+DM. Can't miss that.

[balmy condor]

Kinda overblown how much you actually cloak for damage

It just doesn’t happen

Outside of very rare cases like opener fyrakk where you’re getting blasted by 3 mechanics

You can move out of everything

And still maintain uptime

It’s just knowing what’s coming up mechanically and being able to position yourself accordingly

And kinda your tanks not being braindead and holding the boss 3 miles away

See that a lot too

[autumn frost]

You're asking a lot of pug tanks.

[balmy condor]

Well there’s your issue

You’re pugging

[autumn frost]

Gotta make up for missing raid night!

[balmy condor]

Already doomed from the get go

[quaint hull]

😭

[autumn frost]

Doesn't that mean if you cloaked on offence all the time then you'd get 99%?

And more often times at 72%

[balmy condor]

If it would help I probably would

But it’s just not needed

[inland shoal]

cursed things is hapening, 1 pul on myth diurna i have nica caustic uptime, like 9-10 percent (ye i was on adds as sin for memes) and another pul 0.7 percent, i cant.,,,,

[clever sapphire]

well there are 2 cursed things in that 1 sentence

first you are on adds

2nd you are on adds with a bugged ability

[inland shoal]

well my guild doesnt mind, so i try it

[clever sapphire]

you couldnt convince me to do adds even if the talent wasnt bugged

[inland shoal]

i was asigned for it, cause i have to use tricks on tank

[balmy condor]

You’re assigned on adds FOR TRICKS???

[clever sapphire]

this is getting worse and worse

god damn

[autumn frost]

Don't you have hunters?

[balmy condor]

Inshallah you are freed from awful tanks

I believe

[clever sapphire]

its not even hunters, its just having a tank with 2 braincells

[balmy condor]

You shall be rewarded one day for doing whatever the fuck that is

Tricks is so overrated man

[inland shoal]

we have 1 hunter, and he is breaking egs

[autumn frost]

Why aren't you breaking eggs

instead

[balmy condor]

Imagine transferring threat on a dot class that can’t generate up-front instant threat, and that 0 threat generated doesn’t get buffed by the tank threat multiplier cause it’s not tank threat

[autumn frost]

is my thought

[balmy condor]

[inland shoal]

who knows...

[autumn frost]

You're so much tankier then a hunter

[balmy condor]

Tanks literally generate more threat in 1 gcd than the entirety of tricks transfers in its duration

[vestal wren]

tricks thread generation is also low, so it probably won't make a diffrence

[balmy condor]

And it’s not even close

Like a blood dk presses a single death strike

GG threat generated

Tricks is a drop in the ocean at that point

And any tank telling you otherwise is an idiot

[inland shoal]

nah its more like, when first pack of ads spawning, i pull 2 adds from far away to the tank

[balmy condor]

Why the fuck is that your job

[clever sapphire]

the definition of skill issue

[inland shoal]

yeah i was telling them hunter would be better, but u know.. whatever

[vestal wren]

if it comes to the hero talent

1h of tricks won't rly change much

[balmy condor]

1 hour of tricks

[vestal wren]

because you can't take as many packs from somewhere

tricks as is already is enough

[balmy condor]

Might be the most useless utility point I’ve ever seen

And I’m including the old blind cost reduction talent

[inland shoal]

so u know... we killed it meme season

[vestal wren]

as you mentioned, thread generation calculation is without tank modifiers

so its literally too low to have impact

[inland shoal]

but i was in outlaw on kill, sad it wasnt on my sin puls

[balmy condor]

Yeah I mean they seriously have to look at how threat works imo

Misdirect and tricks are abilities from a decade ago

[vestal wren]

the entire node is bad, and it also locks you out of blackjack

[balmy condor]

That kinda don’t serve any real purpose

[vestal wren]

i don't mind tricks as is, as a tool for the ability to attack earlier

[balmy condor]

The only time it matters is to cheese m+ shit with snapping and pulling packs from 100 yards away

But like

[vestal wren]

the thread chanegs to tanks just make it weak else

[balmy condor]

If tricks got deleted tomorrow

It wouldn’t change anything

[vestal wren]

it is, like many spells on rogue

very niche

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[vestal wren]

what isn't bad

i think it is kind of part of the rogue fantasy to have little tricks up your sleve

[balmy condor]

It’s so much bloat though

[vestal wren]

i mean, ignoring the assassiantion specific use

[balmy condor]

Tricks and distract

Just gotta go

[vestal wren]

shiv is something most outlaw rogues don't even talent in

distract is only relevant in key pushing

shroud is... existent

[clever sapphire]

i dont mind distract, it helps me even in lower keys to save dumbasses who are standing in the middle of nowhere

[vestal wren]

gouge is usually not skilled

[autumn frost]

Distract is nice to stop a wandering pack from coming in

[spice surge]

Cheap shot, evasion, distract, tricks and gouge are all incredibly niche

[autumn frost]

I miss acrobatic strikes

[vestal wren]

exactly

[clever sapphire]

gouge is just a pvp talent for me, change my mind

[balmy condor]

Cheap shot

[balmy condor]

That’s on the class tree

[vestal wren]

sap too

blind too

blackjack is literally the definition of niche

[spice surge]

Idk i wouldnt say blind is niche now that its aoe

I press blind like 10x the amount of times i press the other buttons i listed

Probably more

[vestal wren]

you would use a hard cc usually over aoe blind

[balmy condor]

Yeh aoe blind with blackjack is an actual button

[spice surge]

Blackjack is kind of a meme

[balmy condor]

I’m spamming that shit on tindral

[spice surge]

But the blind itself goes hard

[vestal wren]

blackjack is a bit underrated i think

for poisons too

[autumn frost]

Raid spec give us enough points to get acrobatic?

[balmy condor]

Blackjack is one of the strongest raid defensives on tindral lowkey

[vestal wren]

wound poison is very niche

so is crippling

[balmy condor]

Untalent alacrity and deeper strat, take lethality and acro

[balmy condor]

These I don’t mind cause they’re not in combat

Give me more niche poisons

That’s pre-fight planning

I’m okay with that

[spice surge]

Ye i dont ""need"" to have key bindings for poisons

[vestal wren]

thats a good point

[spice surge]

whereas i do for stuff like distract

[vestal wren]

i think more poisons would be nice

i do use distract quite a bit

[spice surge]

Im sure theres gonna be some dumb MDI type cheese with the infinite tricks where a rogue runs around tagging every mob etc

But in general tricks isnt very useful

[vestal wren]

infinite tricks will be range limited

[spice surge]

Its 100yards no?

[vestal wren]

iirc they put quite some limitations on range and line of sight of missdirect

after echo did use it to win a great push format

basically made the cheeses impossible after the tournament

tricks might not have the limitations initally, but likely fast if they want to consistently lock down these cheeses

[winter vapor]

is there any fights in Vaults now that are not just our standard ST or Cleave builds from last season?

[spice surge]

Council has some opportunity to cook

[winter vapor]

full Shock build or just chucking in IC on the raid cleave build?

[autumn frost]

Bleh acrobatic strikes change is like a 15k dps loss

[balmy condor]

Just run it

[lusty kraken]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[brazen vale]

in raid ST what is the diff between assas and outlaw i know its a stupid question but yeah

[clever sapphire]

assa has burst

outlaw has constant dmg

[sullen leaf]

assa bursts burster than sub?

[royal lantern]

2min burst with all cd's + things like BL yes

but sub has burst windows every 0,6 seconds

[nova trail]

assa doesn't hurt my arm as much

[cursive frost]

Wonder if there is any chance of seeing some class tuning in the next week or two

[spice surge]

Its possible they wait until they have data from every raid (and non-bugged assa data)

But ye theres probably gonna be some tuning happening eventually

[ornate aspen]

applying empowered rupture during SD, yay or nay?

[gusty mirage]

It’s nice to have but I wouldn’t force it

[spice surge]

Envenom during SD is nice, more crit and damage for the hit and tier

[ornate aspen]

thanks 👍

[calm ravine]

does anyone else has a bug with 2tier set bonuses? I have a shadow ruptute on assa, natureblight buff on sub and outlaw

[spice surge]

Did you do anything particular to have it happening

[gusty mirage]

this season just gets funnier and funnier

[calm ravine]

i have 4p previos set and 1p of new set. Then you spec to sub and then to assa and you have it

the same for sub having natureblight attack speed buff

[gusty mirage]

Lmfaooooooo

Omg

Wait shadow rupture for assa and attack speed for sub is actually so broken

ROGUE IS BACK

[calm ravine]

this is on sub, 2p tier bonus from assa

[ornate aspen]

This is incredible

[hexed willow]

What in the

[spice surge]

[gusty mirage]

Neat

Finally we’re bugged in a beneficial way

So it’ll naturally get fixed in the next 48 hours

[hexed willow]

Though if it’s done it masks the current damage struggle

[spice surge]

I already disenchanted my shit, and did item restoration earlier this week

Cant abuse smh my head

[gusty mirage]

Now you can’t farm rank 1s in the super serious awakened tier

[spice surge]

Ye what a horrid fate

[gusty mirage]

Eleem your punishment is you should roll an NA character and help me with my super blooms on my pally

So I can get my stupid axe

[quiet oar]

You mean 4p S2 set?

[calm ravine]

4p S3 and 1p S4

[quiet oar]

So when you have that, you spec into sub and then in Sin and you get Shadowed rupture?

[ornate aspen]

I cant seem to replicate it

[spice surge]

Ima be real buddy

That shit aint happening

[gusty mirage]

[spice surge]

Even if you pay me with good lebanese food

[gusty mirage]

I went from excited to despair in the span of 3 minutes

[spice surge]

Thinking of picking up eleemzugzug again but i dont have legendary yet either

[shy pecan]

[gusty mirage]

Dw, without friends it takes uh 10 superblooms

Very fun content

[shy pecan]

Surely you get it in your first week

[quiet oar]

LEL

I replicated it

[ornate aspen]

Wait!

[quiet oar]

rn

[ornate aspen]

I got it

[spice surge]

Ye its fiendishly tuned

[gusty mirage]

[royal lantern]

im allready realm rank1 m+ in the super serious awakened tier

get on my level

(+8)

[gusty mirage]

Honestly this is the cherry on top for such a beautiful season 4 launch thus far

[ornate aspen]

lets go boys

[spice surge]

Does it work with 4s4 and 1s3 item too

[clever sapphire]

this is what a true realm rank 1 looks like

[quiet oar]

[ember mural]

Remind me later I can help

[gusty mirage]

Unironically it should

[ornate aspen]

I only have 3pc, unable to confirm

[quiet oar]

We should not talk about this bug

[ivory flower]

#showtooltip
/use Marque létale
/use Potion élémentaire de puissance ultime

someone can explain me why my macro dont work, like it uses deathmark but not the pot. In s3 it worked

[quiet oar]

WE go non verbal for that

[ornate aspen]

Maybe while blizz fixes this they can fix the other bugs? and buff rogue to compensate?

[clever sapphire]

check if its the exact name of the potion

[ornate aspen]

🙃

[ivory flower]

it is

i maj clicked on item while doing the macro

[shy pecan]

It might bug if there’s different ranks in your bags?

[gusty mirage]

Try putting the potion first, I ran into this in s2 and that seemed to mostly fix it for me. IIRC if it’s the same thing I ran into it’s something with the GCD

Like because DM was blocked by the GCD it wouldn’t potion properly and I have no idea why

And it only ever happened sometimes

[primal jolt]

running crimson tempest for m+ is it worth using on ST?

[clever sapphire]

no

[primal jolt]

kk tysm

sorry how many targets should i use it on then?

[clever sapphire]

i think it was 4+

[primal jolt]

okay <3

[clever sapphire]

wowhead should have it described, but i just use it at 4+

[ivory flower]

still doesnt work

[zenith hatch]

zerocool in shambles

now im biggest, haters gonna say its cause no1 plays sin

[dark token]

zerowho

[zenith hatch]

exactly

[spice spire]

No one plays sin lol

[zenith hatch]

Its gentlemens club tbh

[shy pecan]

Do you have multiple ranks of it in your bags?

[clever sapphire]

that assa main that has been playing outlaw for the last few months

[royal lantern]

leme gues, you did all dungeons on +9?

[zenith hatch]

11

Well missing 2 but pugging takes a while

[autumn frost]

!ruby

[high jetty]

What do we think about m+ trinkets? Got boon last night and considering putting off ashes.

Raiding doesn’t matter to me at all, I play this game to m+ with my friends lol

[clever sapphire]

ashes + boon ftw

i dont think losing out on ashes dmg during cooldowns would be worth

i will drop boon for a passive trinket before dropping ashes

[lusty compass]

new to dragonflight. is there a resource where i can see which dungeon boss spells are cloakable and which are not? xd

[royal lantern]

not really cus magic dmg tends to be somewhat obvious tbh

[clever sapphire]

if you think its gonna hurt bad, press cloak, if you didnt take dmg YAY

[royal lantern]

yeha, thats mostly how it works

[lusty compass]

haha. i was just doing halls of infusion and tried to cloak thru the last bosses tidal wave. but i dieded :\

[royal lantern]

? that works

[clever sapphire]

i never tried cloaking that, but it should work imo ye

[royal lantern]

probs ended or pressed to early, cloak has a short duration

[lusty compass]

granted i pressed it right as i touched one, it went on cd but maybe server disagreed with me

[quiet oar]

No you get pushed back still

[royal lantern]

huh

is that new in S4?

[quiet oar]

nah

[hot fulcrum]

Can someone explaine me hows it possible to have mirror with hero track? Asking because it's Rise and we have dagger from Fall

[quiet oar]

i remember that from S2 too

[royal lantern]

cus im 200% sure i used cloak and just sprinted trought them back in the days

or maybe im just really stupid again

[quiet oar]

You can even get it on myth track

[hot fulcrum]

but how? We talked about nick of time on champ track only and not higher

[quiet oar]

You can get hero nick

Hardmode Doti

[hot fulcrum]

Oh, it drops from hardmode(((

so this is the answer(

So you should be rly lucky to get ir from there

[quiet oar]

Activating hardmode makes every loot hero track

and if youa re deathless

last boss drops myth track

[high jetty]

Wont you de sync ashes from CDs then though?

[royal lantern]

?

you use ashes like always

and boon w/e it fits

[clever sapphire]

ashes > boon

[high jetty]

Yeah but doesn’t double on use add CD to the other?

[clever sapphire]

ye

[royal lantern]

yes?

[high jetty]

Or nah. Nvm I’m thinking of that wrong

You’re right lol

[clever sapphire]

not running ashes would be trolling

just not having any boss dmg

[high jetty]

Small brain problems

[royal lantern]

hey, thats just assassination

[clever sapphire]

(dont tell him that god damn it, we dont get many assa players)

[high jetty]

Hey now

I beat the tanks on most bosses XD

[clever sapphire]

should i rename myself to Bonespike on Terros enjoyer since its vault currently?

[rotund oak]

Yo Sinlords,for broodkeeper we tunnel her and break some eggs amirite?

no spatter adds n stuff

[royal lantern]

ye

like, even if splatter would function, you would need to hit them for some time to actually get some value out of it + kingsbane tbh

which is just not a thing

just afk the boss

[rotund oak]

yeah im coping hard with spatter

[clever sapphire]

do you ever talent spatter on vault besides council?

[royal lantern]

not really

[rotund oak]

eranog?

[clever sapphire]

ye i dont think it fits on any boss

[royal lantern]

the adds are at 40% health when their HP bars appear lol

[clever sapphire]

would fit on spider

but guess what

hitbox is shit

[rotund oak]

fukin mages and hunters and dks and locks

mobs explode

[quiet oar]

Kurog?

maybe?

[royal lantern]

even thats a big maybe tbh

[clever sapphire]

kurog perhaps if your group has shitty dmg

[rotund oak]

yup,like there are two adds

right?

[clever sapphire]

earth has adds

[rotund oak]

imagine spattering

ah i c

[clever sapphire]

and its a 2 target thingy during intermission

but i think you want ib over spatter on kurog

it will amount to more

[rotund oak]

spatter is copium overdose

idk

[quiet oar]

also

Spatter is still bugged

[rotund oak]

btw any grieftorchers in the chattuh

[clever sapphire]

spatter is good on bosses like gnarlroot, where adds just keep coming

[rotund oak]

ye its voti week

[runic hinge]

Ret pallies too

[rotund oak]

yup f@ck those cringers too

[clever sapphire]

and warriors

[rotund oak]

warriors maybe press roar

[clever sapphire]

ya, m+ bossfights sometimes get me with grieftorch as top dmg

[rotund oak]

before adds disappear

[rotund oak]

[clever sapphire]

that probably says how good my m+ experience is

[rotund oak]

😅

[clever sapphire]

also only normal grieftorch cause i won the roll on that (3 heroic grieftorches dropped after and guess who didnt get a single one)

[rotund oak]

ive won 1 normal tier

got heroic head

[royal lantern]

i have HC boon

trusst me man, that trinket is cursed

your brain turns off

[clever sapphire]

ah its fine

cant turn off something i dont have

[royal lantern]

boon is ready, many adds, ooga booga

why did CD proc

[clever sapphire]

heal issue

[dark token]

I upgraded my boon so it's my best ST trinket

I was so nervous to use it on terros I lost a usage

[royal lantern]

using boon on first boss brackenhide

[clever sapphire]

good thing cloak and boon are always up at the same time

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/xqc-gambling-gamble-gambler-gambling-addiction-gif-25801242

[rotund oak]

gonna kill some bosses and farm some 6s to cap crests 🤝

laters sinlords

[clever sapphire]

im probably sticking to my 8s

and bracken only

[royal lantern]

yeha idk

even less reasons to go above max vault reward thiss season

not even portals cus you have them allready all

10/10 content blizz

[clever sapphire]

only 2 affixes, max vault, hero track item, already have all portals

why would i wanna touch any higher

[strange python]

I dont have anything useful to add as a noob, but at least doing dungeons (and easier mythic did one mythic 1...nothing grand or anything but they have been buffed up apparently). But assassin seems to be my jam for rogue, really really enjoying it and it makes sense to me on how to play it. But I guess its not a very played spec lol

[royal lantern]

tbh the main problem rn is

assa got butt fucked with nerfs

and is just in a bad spot rn cus of it

[clever sapphire]

and outlaw exists

[royal lantern]

• the current version has a dmg pattern that is good for some thing but also quiet bad for others

ye and outlaw exists

yes, outlaw has a very high skill ceeling

but doing decently as outlaw requires very low brainpower

[dark token]

outlaw shits on assa in every content rn

[strange python]

I like subtlety too, that probably is my 2nd favorite. Outlaw is fun too, but every class in the game seems to use swords xD

[clever sapphire]

the thing that turned me away from sub is that i had to prog smolderon and tindral on it

and now im tired of that spec

[strange python]

ah. Well even if assassin been nerfed a lot, I still like it the most...and I dunno what it was like before anyway lol

I imagine wont be doing super high content with it I suppose, thats ok

[clever sapphire]

well its S4, i dont care about highest of m+ and im still good enough for raid, so i just play assa cause its the most fun spec imo

[strange python]

yup my train of thought too

[jovial verge]

despite all odds i somehow turbo int everytime I play outlaw

secretly the hardest rogue spec

[quiet oar]

Im not Sure that this is true

Tbh

[jovial verge]

sin positivity - its genuinely the only spec in the game I always come back too regardless of what version of it, its got something comfy about it

[royal lantern]

eh, it depeends heavy on what we see as "Playing decent" tbh

cus for me "playing decent" means "can do most non-push content without any bigger issues"

[hallow tinsel]

Well, I was coming here to ask if assas is more relevant in m+ with the buff to NPC health (ideally giving our bleeds/poisons time to do their thing)

A quick 2 minute scroll says thats not the case.

[marble hemlock]

Well, it doesn't change how M+ is being played. It's not like people play the same difficulty of keys but everything just has higher HP. They just end up sitting at the equivalent level of keys as before.

[balmy condor]

Yeh

Hp doesn’t change really

[marble hemlock]

The general issue Assa tends to run into is that few trashpacks last longer than 20-30 seconds, making it hard to consistently commit 2mins on those. WIth the long ramp and duration that our CDS have to run, you often end up not hitting that DM because you wouldnt get full value out of it. :/

[royal lantern]

ye, most things are like

big pull with BL and stuff?

tends to not be worth it cus the dh/ret/whatever is using cd's aswell and stuff explodes

[marble hemlock]

By the time our full damage starts hitting, whatever you put DM+KB up is dead and everything else might still be 20-30% HP. It's just a very awkward situation

[tulip pilot]

What are y’all buying with Bullion this reset?

[balmy condor]

Dagger or trinket

[marble hemlock]

Whatever droptimizer tells me is the best use of bullion

https://i.imgur.com/9gZAoxJ.png

Seems pretty clear

But ye, if you use droptimizer with the Season 4 Raid Vendor option, you can just sim the bullion choices.

[tulip pilot]

Oh shiiiiii I didn’t know they added the raid vendor option

[grim briar]

does assa APL support dungeon slice?

[royal lantern]

yes

all rogue things support dungeon slice

[severe oyster]

Speaking of that I need to sim to see if the brood ring is better than ashes, but I doubt it.

[royal lantern]

its not

the ring is a minor gain

the trinket is the highest priority lol

[clever sapphire]

i tend to never send on first pulls

because someone is gonna send anyways

[sturdy ember]

Just dot get why they don’t do some sort of tuning. At least a bump in AoE if they are working on something bigger.

[royal lantern]

cynical answer: they are busy with mage/druid rework #8

[clever sapphire]

its so rewarding to cap all my crests, 100 flightstones is just what i needed after 20 keys

[sturdy ember]

It would be really cool if we could have our aoe actually work together. CT and Spatter both take time to do their work and don’t really play with each other. At least give CT the Primal Wrath treatment and front load some dmg.

[balmy condor]

they just removed the instant damage from CT to avoid people spamming it for aoe

don't think that's gonna be back soon

[royal lantern]

yeha, no, CT instant dmg was always stupid

spamming CT is stupid

[clever sapphire]

spamming CT = spamming BP

[sturdy ember]

Sigh.. just picked the Rog back up after parking for 15 years. Pre nerf sounded fun 🤦🏻

[clever sapphire]

its still fun

just because im not topping meters i still enjoy the playstyle

[balmy condor]

idk if it's a nerf if CT is stronger now

the rework in general was really good for m+

[subtle cipher]

guildie said energy should never get below 50% no matter what due to sanguine blades, tru?

[balmy condor]

false

[subtle cipher]

why tho, isnt optimal? in what situation it should go lower?

[balmy condor]

you play around the tier set

chaining envenoms

not the sanguine energy

[subtle cipher]

oh, i dont have tier set yet

[balmy condor]

time to get it

[clever sapphire]

whispyr do you have an explanation for the people getting sub tierset procs as assa?

[subtle cipher]

but envenom on tier set is tied to any buff/timer to keep it up?

[clever sapphire]

aka shadow rupture

[balmy condor]

bug, getting fixed

[balmy condor]

it's tied to the envenom buff

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[subtle cipher]

ah got it

so kinda fuck sb

gg

[balmy condor]

sanguine would be a pretty awful talent if there was no reason to go under 50%

you would just crush your weakaura from 0-300 energy to 150-300 energy

and then play like that

[clever sapphire]

im ready boys, time to get combo points for next fight

[quiet oar]

[subtle cipher]

worth the swap?

[clever sapphire]

pressing bonespike when i know that i will feint

so i get the cp after feint gcd is over

5 head move

[balmy condor]

almost 20 ilvl? yeah that's a no brainer

[subtle cipher]

just stamina wise? wont luse dmg cuz hnaste?

[balmy condor]

damage wise cause it's 20 ilvl

[vestal wren]

more stats = more better

[subtle cipher]

gg

[balmy condor]

amen

[subtle cipher]

thought secondary impact was bigger

[balmy condor]

secondary impact is big, that's why having more of them is good

the difference between them is the thing that isn't big

[vestal wren]

stat distribution of assasisnation ^^

[marble hemlock]

you know what else isnt big?

[balmy condor]

your cock

[shy pecan]

[marble hemlock]

wow

mods?

i was gonna say my fyrakk parses

[balmy condor]

yeah thats what I said

[marble hemlock]

where is HR when you need them

[runic hinge]

[proper tapir]

You may get better results using the APL at the bottom of my sheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQvQhvGUkIxSodGmLyWPZNCENs61Ct0VVe0dD4UCquv0TYeorF1dZ004vkEllUNTewZGFMlFlRGVX0k/pubhtml

[grim briar]

what is different in this APL?

[proper tapir]

A lot #1065730164077645916 message

[rotund oak]

AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[keen spruce]

[rotund oak]

[narrow basalt]

Hey, I am trying different rogue specs for the first time. I have a few hours on outlaw rn and think its pretty fun, but very hard to master. How is assassin compared to outlaw in terms of rotation difficulty and dps?

[keen spruce]

quite a bit easier. pretty specific during burst windows (kingsbane/deathmark) but otherwise way slower placed and forgiving compared to pirate

Outlaw probably one of the hardest specs in the game rn to actually play correctly

idk about damage, I'm reitred

[narrow basalt]

I see, thank you 🙂 My problem with outlaw in with longer fights is that my small mistakes stack into big damage loss overall

[narrow basalt]

I see I see

[keen spruce]

yeah mistakes on pirate compound very quickly and crater your damage

[balmy condor]

[narrow basalt]

grrrr

[keen spruce]

[narrow basalt]

You retired from sin? what do you main now?

[keen spruce]

retired from wow

[narrow basalt]

oooh I see

[balmy condor]

he mains airplane

[keen spruce]

and tft

[narrow basalt]

oh snap

[keen spruce]

[balmy condor]

shmeeps gonna be pilot of my private jet when I make it big fr fr

[narrow basalt]

how is his salary gonna be? You payin good?

[spice spire]

Mf the only thing ur gonna make big is my peep

[balmy condor]

pack of gummy worms and ticklin his butthole every tuesday from 3 to 3:15

[spice spire]

[thorn dove]

That's double pay in some states

[narrow basalt]

hmm I see. A plastig bag and some bayleaves as well perchance?

[clever sapphire]

guys save me

[spice spire]

No

[clever sapphire]

fair enough

btw bonespike biggest talent for signet no?

im always in combat and always do dmg

so i never drop stacks

in theory

[woeful meteor]

[primal jolt]

I AM UNLEASHED

dont wanna flex but im playing assa after a whole year

and i still got it

i am so fucking proud of myself

[clever sapphire]

we are all proud of you

[primal jolt]

[narrow basalt]

guys should I talent in serrated bone spike?

I am so lost on this spec xD

[clever sapphire]

i wanna say yes, but no

it does no dmg

and has no place even in aoe/cleave

jsut copy the wowhead build

[narrow basalt]

oki ty

[gusty mortar]

bone spike best spell

🫡

[royal lantern]

no

lmao

[clever sapphire]

true, but sadly there is no reason to play it

[narrow basalt]

damn xD

why do some people love it when its seemingly that bad

[gusty mortar]

because its fun to play

[balmy condor]

daydreaming about shadowlands

nostalgia

[rotund oak]

Seli-carved memories

[royal lantern]

its like, 2 people here that meme about it

everyone else knows that its a shit ability

[gilded oasis]

yeah but it was fun when it wasnt shit

[royal lantern]

it was fun with deathspike

but then outlaw happend

and decided to take the fun away

now its litearlly just ambush with delayed cp lol

[rotund oak]

bonespike is heavy

[primal jolt]

i can just macro together shadowdance and kingsbane, ye?

iirc theyre not on a gcd

for raid st

[royal lantern]

yes

[primal jolt]

okay :D

[vestal wren]

i know at least one person on this server loved sbs

[royal lantern]

can just macro them in general, there is not really a situation where you use them seperate

[primal jolt]

ye ye

[royal lantern]

+can also macro ashes trinket into it if you have it

[vestal wren]

but sbs just didn't evolve with the talent tree rework

similar to some other spells

sepsis is hated too, but sepsis does fit the assassiantion theme

[royal lantern]

like i said, sbs rn is ambush with delayed cp that makes your opener more akward

[primal jolt]

if you have it

[primal jolt]

isnt it better to macro it to deathmark?

just in general

[royal lantern]

no

cus then you allready lost the first tick of ashes

[primal jolt]

oh shit

smart

5head

[winter vapor]

heroic raz on intermission with the 2 large add spawns, do we keep focus on the large adds?

[clever sapphire]

yap, but since you are not even talenting spatter since its not worth its whatever

pray for poison bomb procs

[winter vapor]

oh, pure ST for the whole fight?

[primal jolt]

i always pop shiv first then my kingsbane and dance, yes?

[winter vapor]

not like you change talents in the middle but

[primal jolt]

and then later the second shiv

or do i do cds then shiv

shiv first im p sure?

[winter vapor]

yup, says that on wowhead guide afaik

[primal jolt]

ye im in a raid atm figured its faster to ask here

ty

[winter vapor]

enveom -> shiv -> KB/Dance

[primal jolt]

yes exacty what i was doing ty

[viral sage]

what is the best m+ build atm, I see the top keys are done with the cleave one

[misty comet]

Does Cataclysmic Signet proc the vault rings?

[spice surge]

Yes, if it does fire damage it can proc it

[pure bridge]

Man, we can do some serious pop off moments with AP + Sudden Demise. I feel like season 2 set would have been glorious.

[dark token]

Yes

It would have

Sin rogues coping themselves to be bottom DPS again

By voting for same tier

[spice surge]

Well its not like the other tiers wouldve saved the spec

Pog i do more damage after my cooldowns

Just unlucky tuning, for sure its getting buffed

[keen spruce]

Surely

[dark token]

They would buff the tier so it would be equal st to s3

But would be much better cleave dmg and m+ gameplay after buffs

Since it was a rupture set

Could have been dumping on outlaw

Instead I have to play sub

[spice surge]

the set wasnt that much weaker than s3

Assa just tuned very low after nerfs

Another set wouldnt change it

[proper tapir]

I got you - I have this tabulated in my sheet ❤️

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQvQhvGUkIxSodGmLyWPZNCENs61Ct0VVe0dD4UCquv0TYeorF1dZ004vkEllUNTewZGFMlFlRGVX0k/pubhtml

[keen spruce]

I’m 95% sure everyone is just running the same shit as last season without giving it much thought

They all run with a % or two of eachother and it doesn’t rly matter

[dark token]

Depends on the key

Places like neltharus or bracken I would not run cleave

Instead hybrid build in higher key

[proper tapir]

I'd run cleave without IW in every key no matter the level

[keen spruce]

Boooo

[dark token]

Ur actually cooked

[proper tapir]

I know, how do I sleep at night when I don't build to simp the tank/healer

[dark token]

U simp urself

The mobs group

So ur splatter hits more

[runic hinge]

IW feels less important if you got a vdh chain cc'ing everything but I still like having the utility

[dark token]

[clever sapphire]

i just swap around between cleave and shock build

depending of the group setup

and also key

if i know that in most packs there is a target to hit, i will go with cleave

[dark token]

I go shock every key cause key level low

[clever sapphire]

pugs so shit there is no key low

[keen spruce]

I ran shock until like +25s last season then switched to outlaw at like 26s

[clever sapphire]

sometimes i just enjoy my more chill cleave build

where spreading bleeds is whatever

[primal jolt]

been so far running mainly arterial shock

doing pretty impressive damage considering my shit gear

[normal mist]

Guys

She died

[keen spruce]

[normal mist]

and i still have no tier which means i really need 1 token next week to swap 4 pieces

[primal jolt]

is that lfr

thats how my lfr looks

[normal mist]

HC

I wish i did better dmg

[primal jolt]

how much are you pumping

st

[normal mist]

top1 = ret 291k
Me, top7 = 212k

[primal jolt]

YIKES

i mean ret is really disgusting atm

so it doesnt count

you are number 1 in my heart

[normal mist]

Yeah rets look good up there

xD

The only thing i can say in my defense (besides some rotational mistakes during the fight because raza sucks for assa imo) my trinket suck ass

both 493

[primal jolt]

next week bullion

[normal mist]

Amen grief

[keen spruce]

Incarnate icon

[shy pecan]

What about puzzle box?

[keen spruce]

I’m not home I can’t post the gif

[shy pecan]

[clever sapphire]

Ye you really need ashes

[normal mist]

I might get grieftorch, mostly playing outlawl in m+

[clever sapphire]

Ah ye in that case probably ashes, i was thinkin with assa only brain

[normal mist]

I feel you. Last season i did all 20's as assa, then i tried OL for fun, and boy it was fun. I really (atleast this expansion) can't get back into assa M+.

But i ONLY raid as Assa tho, because i hate OL in raid. Makes no sense

[ivory flower]

Outlaw is too much apm for me, and in key pug garrotes saves lifes. But holy shit we lack tankiness

[normal mist]

Yeah for sure garrotes are amazing in m+, but better than that is pumping huge dmg and having BtE proc after proc after proc

[ivory flower]

I tried and yeah it feels amazing when you non stop procs

[normal mist]

and a lot of on demand stuns also pretty cool

[digital folio]

Do you guys maintain crimson tempest on single target boss fights in mm+? It feels pretty clunky especially if I have to focus on pooling for envenom as well

[spice surge]

You do not use CT on singletarget no

[gusty mirage]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1232770176571805697/puzzlebox.gif

[keen spruce]

Ty

[indigo ginkgo]

1 bullion weapon 2 bullion trinket ?

[proper tapir]

you only CT when there are 4 or more targets

[severe oyster]

Puzzle box was never my friend.

[onyx coyote]

Is timestrike sitll not working in awakened?

[waxen oyster]

?

it works fine

[onyx coyote]

okay i had heard from wowhead it was not multipling the effect like how sanguine was broken

[waxen oyster]

huh

[spice surge]

That has been fixed

[onyx coyote]

cool ty

[waxen oyster]

when was this bugged even

[gusty mirage]

like

the first 5 days of the patch

all of the does x% of y damage spells/abilities were bugged

[waxen oyster]

oh must have not looked far enough down details

[gusty mirage]

[waxen oyster]

granted being an outlaw boy this tier

so dont need it

[gusty mirage]

friendly reminder that ret was also affected by this bug

despite it being ridiculously OP

[waxen oyster]

wait timestrike is in

my tuesday raid logs

huh

[onyx coyote]

i wont be usign it for long luckily just need a dagger to drop from raid

got a 476 😦

[waxen oyster]

you’re in luck enjoy farming nick this season too

[royal python]

Any idea which spells

[gusty mirage]

execution sentence was affected by it

[foggy temple]

I shouldn't break my tier until I have 4 of the new correct?

[bright turret]

maybe if we're good boys and girls we'll get the 3% nerf reverted as an early present

[errant swallow]

buffs inc, I can feel it

[earnest remnant]

sorry we dont do that here

only nerfs

[languid pawn]

Any reason why ashes so low when i sim what to buy with first buillon? sorry if asked already

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hBaijmqfcAVBQ98LZWSUMZ

[earnest remnant]

is all that we can provide

[clever sapphire]

Cause you have branch

[rotund oak]

https://bigthink.com/life/mammals-in-america/#Echobox=1714276199 Better than cats,double the badassery

./vanish

[silk bane]

thank god for nerfs. I was worried rogue might stand a chance at competing with these other classes.

[proper tapir]

Sims are personal, it's based off what you got. You may be able to bring it closer if you build like the "BiS" profile, try double BSL, the agi/vers leg enchant, regem including mast/vers. Other than that just trust the robot, signet is a good trinket in ST boss fights.

[clever sapphire]

Ya if fight goes on for 5+ minutes

[quiet oar]

Becasue of Branch

[rotund oak]

wpns=>trinkets=>tier set most likely the optimal play

given that nick is farmable from hardmode(yes i hate it myself) u aim for a wpn and then trinkets

[somber sparrow]

farmable as in, once a week sadly

[quiet oar]

Well i wouldnt spend my first Buillon on a non special weapon

tbh

I would rather craft one

than buy one

[rotund oak]

and not upgrade ur emblishments?

u sure the numbers follow?

being as it is rn,picking daggers instead of outlaw the most optimal craft is embelishments,coin on wpn unless u are unlucky with the vault to hit and miss on trinket or wpn slot

personally i wouldnt even bother overthinking to pick a wpn since the season is a lootfest,u take the trinket 2 weeks later

makes no difference

or pretty much a minimal one

[clever sapphire]

i take trinket over weapon all day every day

i can get weapon from many places

[junior aurora]

embellishments aren't that important

[solid mica]

is sin gonna be any good in keys, just gettin back

[clever sapphire]

ashes only from smolderon, and only from mythic one at that (not this part, but i get mythic lvl from the bullion)

[junior aurora]

you could also have crafted a weapon this week

to just be max

[clever sapphire]

its mid

[somber sparrow]

it's not bad. better than they used to be! AOE much improved

[quiet oar]

I mean Sin uses BSL anyways right?

Just put it on your crafted weapon

[junior aurora]

^

[quiet oar]

Also, the Sim clearly shows literally 5 Trinkets before the first weapon

[vestal wren]

weapon can be your biggest upgrade if you have a rly bad one

[royal lantern]

wdym crafted weapon, you gotta MINMAX in the meme season and get that high ilvl nick

[clever sapphire]

i managed to get mad in a meme season, fight me

[quiet oar]

Yes ofc, but its easier to get 1 weapon than a Grieftorch

[quiet oar]

You are a Bonespike on Terros enjoyer

You are built different

[vestal wren]

yes, you can also craft one

[clever sapphire]

well thats true

[quiet oar]

Actually he did craft his Dagger to 515

With food Embelishment

This man has the right Priorities

[clever sapphire]

i dont think i will run enough keys this season where food embelishment would pay itself out over the season

[grim tree]

How does Assa look in Raid this season?

[royal lantern]

was lucky and dropped the broodkeeper dagger on heroic

522 mainhand

[quiet oar]

Nice one

I got Terros Heroic and Mythic

[runic hinge]

I think it’s down under 20k rn tho

[quiet oar]

You know whats even funnier

This is BiS OH on Outlaw

(Ofc its Green Text)

[clever sapphire]

if i dont die i dont need it

[quiet oar]

Well thats why you should buy it

[clever sapphire]

are you telling me i will die

[quiet oar]

Yes you play Sin

Its the squishiest rogue

[clever sapphire]

okay thats a fair point

[runic hinge]

Not if I never do a key above an 8

[quiet oar]

Believe me

[clever sapphire]

if its rlp im never doing one above 5

[quiet oar]

Healer can still fail HOI 3rd boss

[royal lantern]

good old outlaw WOI scaling

(Words on Items)

[quiet oar]

and guess what, i didnt get it

[ocean gulch]

Hi is Assa playable in S4 ? (Pushing keys/ Raid)

[quiet oar]

You can play whatever you want in raid, because it doesnt really matter tbh

and if you mean pushing key as in doing 20s

prolly no

if you mean up to 15 ? prolly

[balmy condor]

well, whatever that translates to now

[quiet oar]

fixed it

[ocean gulch]

Wish I could play Assa like early S3

[balmy condor]

why can't you

[quiet oar]

Well you can

Playstyle didnt change

[ocean gulch]

I didn’t try it again after nerfs

[balmy condor]

I mean you don't need to try it again

[quiet oar]

Its just numbers

[ocean gulch]

Okok good to know

[balmy condor]

it's the same spec

just number down

[royal lantern]

take old key levels and just do a -10 or -11 tbh

[runic hinge]

Technically it’s number up cause we’re higher ilvl now

Okay I’ll go to bed

[quiet oar]

https://tenor.com/view/actually-nerd-actually-nerd-glasses-well-yes-but-actually-no-gif-5597798959730072444

[runic hinge]

[royal lantern]

omg

weapon oils return in TWW

im SHOCKED

[neat plank]

why is it sometimes oil sometimes rune ;O

[primal jolt]

POG

[brittle jungle]

Hi, toxic embellishement is good for s4 ?

[balmy condor]

not really

[clever sapphire]

actually gonna craft flavorpocket

found one in my mages inventory

no idea why

no idea how it got there even

[quiet oar]

Well

Maybe

YOu are a wizard

[clever sapphire]

you wanna know the most fun thing i just realised

there is a guy in our guild with 3 keys run

he is 2 ilvls above me

and i have 25 keys

and the weekly events done

[brittle jungle]

oki ty 🙂

[quiet oar]

Loot smart, dont grind hard

[clever sapphire]

2.5k rio is mount right?

[balmy condor]

think so

[uneven summit]

Do we have anything that procs Seal of diurna outside of eranog ring, flaring cowl or shadowpatch?

[balmy condor]

igira helm enchant

[uneven summit]

ahhh ofc

[balmy condor]

also seal of diurna

is the eranog ring

it can't proc itself

[uneven summit]

seal of filiail

[balmy condor]

that's an absorb

[uneven summit]

fililililialalili

that one

[balmy condor]

and it's off diruna

[uneven summit]

got it hero-track from the 5x TW, can´t complain

[balmy condor]

I mean yeah

good ring

still won't proc the seal though :P

[normal mist]

It's usually at 2k

[clever sapphire]

ah okay

[balmy condor]

is it still 2k

cause the squish

didn't that also squish the score?

[quiet oar]

no

[clever sapphire]

wasnt 2k the tier token and 2.5 mount tho?

[quiet oar]

No

[clever sapphire]

god m+ is confusing

[quiet oar]

You need Keystonemaster for Mount

[quiet oar]

Every score under the "old" key lvl of 11 is deleted

a +2 was like 45 score with a 3 chest

in last season

[balmy condor]

okay

[quiet oar]

and a +2 3 chest now is 99 score

prolly +-5 depending on timer

They couldve done a Squish

But im 100% sure they would fuck it up

[balmy condor]

I mean the whole point system was "you get 10 points per level and bonus for speed"

and that was fine

[quiet oar]

like the omni token still requiring 2K score

[balmy condor]

but I guess we want to overcomplicate things again

[quiet oar]

Im glad they didnt

Because less things to fuck up

and they already fucked up so many basic things

[normal mist]

I was shooting to get Omni next reset at 2k, but killed rasz HC yesterday instead

[quiet oar]

Definitely the easier task

[normal mist]

14 wipes later

It was fun!

[clever sapphire]

a kill is a kill

thats all that counts

you could have 14 wipes in 2 keys

and those wont even get you closer to 2k score

always remember that

[quiet oar]

Well the Judge said otherwise

[clever sapphire]

i just realised week 1 isnt even over yet and i already know i will only fill my vault weekly and raidlog

[balmy condor]

yeh

happens

when the new "season"

is actually 0 content

[quiet oar]

Well

The content

is all the bugs

🙂

[subtle tundra]

i have to force myself to do 6 more m+

[quiet oar]

While Voti Feels quite nice to play

Aberrus and Amidrassil will be pain again

[balmy condor]

that reminds me

I need to check

[subtle tundra]

beating a dead horse, but fighting the tank wasnt fun

[quiet oar]

The Prison of a Rogue TC

[balmy condor]

checking bugs

yepge

[quiet oar]

Get some Vodka

[balmy condor]

bro these people are animals

[quiet oar]

to ahve a little bit of fun

[quiet oar]

atleast

[balmy condor]

who the fuck

[clever sapphire]

we went back to smolderon/tindral yesterday cause "we overgeared it now anyways, free kills for mount"

[balmy condor]

is logging TWO lfr kills

[quiet oar]

We too

[balmy condor]

oh?

oh

hold

[clever sapphire]

guess whos raid got called early because only like 8 players knew how tindral works and it was a shitshow and a lot of people were tilted (me included)

[balmy condor]

nvm

he just didn't press buttons

and it made caustic look weirdly big

aight

pin update time

my old friend

the discord timestamp generator

[neon oxide]

week 183 of still being bugged

[clever sapphire]

imagine already doing no dmg on that boss and you even have bugs

[subtle tundra]

guys i have tummy ache :/

[balmy condor]

you're so tummy ache pilled

achemaxxing

[subtle tundra]

its rough out here

[quiet oar]

It should 100% more dmg righht

like 700?

[balmy condor]

lmao no

it should be like 1450

caustic is 45%

[rotund oak]

[quiet oar]

oh yeah

[rotund oak]

means spatter still bugged

[balmy condor]

it's off by a factor of 4

cause it's still the stupid 4.11x multiplier

not working

[rotund oak]

its alot

yup