assassination

[spice spire]

I go through phases of it

Cute animals, middle eastern, specifically Lebanese food a la oxi, then wow stuff

[gilded oasis]

weird comma

[spice spire]

Ye

[keen spruce]

strippers, poker, raccoons, wow

[spice spire]

Should have semi colon

[keen spruce]

sometimes ferrets

[spice spire]

Poker?

[keen spruce]

if scana

[woeful meteor]

your budget comp doesn't have a mage so it's a good comp, pug mages are just so insanely bad overall

[spice spire]

I hardly know er!

[keen spruce]

sends me stuff

[woeful meteor]

[spice surge]

Why play poker when you can play balatro fr fr

[earnest remnant]

im not enjoying it as much this season (hence why im not streaming it) if we wanna time keys i have to play outlaw or we have 0 prio dmg and pulls take too long

its not that fun

[keen spruce]

balatro very lit

[spice spire]

[keen spruce]

pirate fun tho

[spice surge]

Play assa for prio

[keen spruce]

pew pew

[earnest remnant]

nah outlaw

[spice spire]

Deleted and banned

[earnest remnant]

is not fun

[keen spruce]

automatic weapon

[earnest remnant]

its very mindnumbing

[runic hinge]

I’m 33 I got the reference but I was interested in digging

[woeful meteor]

Kir pirate is at least somewhat better than the other DF versions imo

[spice surge]

Were you perchance a dwarf digging a hole?

[gilded oasis]

DIGGY DIGGY HOLE?

[earnest remnant]

but yeh i dunno we tried keys with me as sub

but our dmg profile was just horrid

[gilded oasis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34CZjsEI1yU&ab_channel=NapalmRecords

[earnest remnant]

all smallies insta dead

[keen spruce]

no mage @earnest remnant ?

[earnest remnant]

sentinel left with 50-60% health

very not good

no we do not have a mage

[keen spruce]

wut comp

[earnest remnant]

we are Havoc Ret rogue

[keen spruce]

o

yeah that's pretty cursed

[earnest remnant]

its awful

[spice surge]

Unfortunate playing without heroclass

[earnest remnant]

also no DH tank

[keen spruce]

havoc and rogue kinda goofy together

[earnest remnant]

Havoc rogue is okay

[keen spruce]

steppin on eachother's toes a lot

and bad brand value

[earnest remnant]

Ret is the culprit

they have the same issue sub does

[keen spruce]

ret brings goodies tho

[earnest remnant]

all out AoE

[keen spruce]

but ye

[earnest remnant]

or all out ST

[keen spruce]

they're either ignoring smallies

or deleting them

[runic hinge]

Do ducks need flight school? I thought you were kinda just born with it

[earnest remnant]

we basically sped up Throne of tides

with 3min

just by me playing outlaw

-.-

[keen spruce]

we ended up mostly playing pirate, mage, chicken

or pirate, mage, aug

or pirate, mage, mage

[spice spire]

Boosted eh?

[keen spruce]

u can't lose io

so if you play enough

[gilded oasis]

imagine if you lost IO

[keen spruce]

you kinda stumble into score

[gilded oasis]

would be so toxic

[keen spruce]

eventually

I dont' think i'm much better of a player than I was in like s1

[runic hinge]

Lmao you don’t time a 22 and your io goes down 30 points

[keen spruce]

but i was like 2800 in s1

and 3200 in s2

just many more hours rotting in queue

[earnest remnant]

we getting there

[keen spruce]

i don't even have a 29 on tyran

NA rogues are not as powerful

as the europeans

it cuz you guys get the fancy imported ranch

and we're stuck in hidden valley

[spice spire]

Brother

There’s so much better than hidden valley

Stop this

[woeful meteor]

what Talents do you play in iridikron for sub @earnest remnant

[gilded oasis]

Yeah like Bobs

[spice spire]

?

Idk if this is a bit

[keen spruce]

i'm not a ranch sommolier quake

i barely touch the stuff

[spice spire]

Yeah me neither

I just don’t eat it

[spice spire]

I prefer ram ranch personally

[keen spruce]

i dunk fast food pizza in theirs sometimes

[keen spruce]

can't be that famous i've never heard of him

bitchass bob

[spice spire]

I stand by my ram ranch statement

Same

[keen spruce]

no bitches bob

[spice spire]

He just like me

[keen spruce]

oh it was still in my other window

[gilded oasis]

kek

[earnest remnant]

im just gonna die

[keen spruce]

good assas ring

[woeful meteor]

I assume you have the raid things already

[earnest remnant]

dont need any raid gear what so ever

its literally just nick of time

🙂

[woeful meteor]

just got my last item massive like 200 dps from mythic tindreal neck

[earnest remnant]

no upgrades on DH either

love it

[keen spruce]

i have hero track neck and cloak

and outlaw weps

and OH

[oak tangle]

i lost my last bit of motivation for wow

[runic hinge]

What’s your weapons

[earnest remnant]

lets see what Steal This Ham gets

[oak tangle]

missed 3 vaults cause i spent 2 weeks in hospital

[earnest remnant]

you should stop doing that, its not healthy

[oak tangle]

indeed

came home and last epoch was out

[earnest remnant]

[keen spruce]

hero thorncaller and hero nicholas

[keen spruce]

[earnest remnant]

dont think enhance plays it

[keen spruce]

not with that attitude they don't

Stealthi's Ham deserves fancy trinkets

[earnest remnant]

My havoc is in desperate needs of Augury/signet brand

[gilded oasis]

and a brain

[earnest remnant]

ill have you know

Notstealthi is 8/9 mythic

[keen spruce]

needs some bitches

[earnest remnant]

hey

i did that in 2 hours

took 9 pulls

to kill tindral

[earnest remnant]

[gilded oasis]

yeah me too

but like times 100

[keen spruce]

[earnest remnant]

alt raid went

wroom wroom

[high jetty]

This spec is so fucking fun, holy shit. How have I not played this since legion. They need to get who ever was responsible for this rework to consult on all the dot classes.

[arctic hare]

First, Realz

Second, the rework happened literally this season lmao

[high jetty]

Yeah, I just mean, who ever is responsible for it got some shit seriously right, and as a warlock main. This is like playing a different game lol

[arctic hare]

oh yeah, its absolutely incredible

[royal lantern]

pray that affliction gets a simmilar treatment, cus it needs it

[rotund oak]

ill take ur ashes of the embersoul thank you very much

(yes i got another nick on my GV btw,took a socket for my Sin belt)

[warm ravine]

whats the best way to track poisons? im very new, but i imagine its like tracking Flame Shock for shamans? Is tehre a plater out there for it?

[rotund oak]

u dont track them,stacks happen

the only thing relative to poisons and tracking is envenom buff

its very pivotal for dmg coz u need to envenom while envenom buff is active for xtra dmg

[warm ravine]

so goal is to have 100% uptime on envenom?

[rotund oak]

the higher the better yes

if u can achieve 100% thts ideal

[warm ravine]

yikes, with only a 6sec max buff time

[rotund oak]

it pandemics

which means if u envenom while the buff is active it adds more time to it

u should check whispyr's guides on ''pooling''

explains pretty much everything u need to know

[warm ravine]

yeah its thorough for sure. understanding it takes time though, being new etc. but ty for the pointer.

[runic hinge]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[runic hinge]

If you check LE’s profile there’s an envenom tracker on there with options to show pandemic

[warm ravine]

okay cool, thanks.

[royal lantern]

in normal gameplay without any depeer thoughts given, you will average out on 80%+

[warm ravine]

is there like some sort of tab targeting when applying garrote?

[rotund oak]

after a hotfix indiscriminate carnage has a ''smart'' targeting

if u arent specced into it and try to cleave 2 targets

u just manually target and dot it up

[warm ravine]

coming from combat (also new) i should 100% have daggers made right

[rotund oak]

by made u mean crafted?

[warm ravine]

yeah

[arctic hare]

If not, yes, you want dual daggers

[warm ravine]

i got fist weps

wtm

[arctic hare]

Yeah, Sin only works with daggers

[rotund oak]

yeah u cant mutilate without daggers

[warm ravine]

ive noticed lol, like....wtf..

[arctic hare]

lmao, yep

[rotund oak]

same goes for sub but its a dps thing

even a 1lvl dagger wins a slow oh

due to passive

[arctic hare]

I thought they couldn't use a oh cause of evis?

fuck I'm havin issues tonight lmao

[rotund oak]

no u jut lose too much cps and energy from shadowtechniques

[arctic hare]

Ahh, that checks out

[warm ravine]

so is there a macro or something for this? I have each one bound individually lol

[keen spruce]

they should all be seperate

you can bind shadowdance to kingsbane tho

[warm ravine]

ok ok

is that supposed to be a cast sequence macro?

[runic hinge]

No, don't do that

Go hit a dummy for like 30 minutes until you get the opener down

[warm ravine]

oh i bet.'

[royal lantern]

kingsbane+shadowdance, most of the time deathmark+trinket (and pot if you wanna macro that one)

thats it

rogue is not a macro heavy class

[warm ravine]

thank go dlol

god* lol

[royal lantern]

can do a mousover Shadowstep macro aswell, but thats more of a "i like how it feels" thing for mobility and a personal opinion, not something needed

[warm ravine]

so i wanna rupture one target and spread it with Crimson Tempest? And dance between keeping Rupture, envenom and spreading poisons with CT?

[runic hinge]

Not sure where you're getting that

[warm ravine]

idk lol

EITHER Lol

[runic hinge]

Read the guide on wowhead and then maybe watch Whispyr's videos on youtube

[runic hinge]

https://youtu.be/st6UJOP5Ok4?si=9G8Lz7UGsAw6qukM

That'll help you with aoe

[royal lantern]

m+

?

[warm ravine]

yeha starting w/ aoe rotatoin first.

[royal lantern]

the general rule of thumb is: apply bleeds on priority targets, keep Crimson Tempest running at 4+ targets, when all bleeds are out you ST a big guy and do aoe with Splatter

if you do that, you will do good

[warm ravine]

is the build he has the go to m+? the one i got on wowhead is diff. The Arterial Shock build.

[royal lantern]

"generalist" aoe opener in m+ (with i. carnage talented) is like, garrote->garrote->rupture/crimson tempest(if you skilled it)->get rupture on some big guys->start doing single target with kingsbane

[royal lantern]

they all are VERY close to eachother, so its often a "what feels better" thing

arterial shock is mostly recommended

makes m+ runs where stuff dies in 6seconds feel less painfull (aka all keys this season cus adds just evaporate lmao)

[sharp viper]

game really wants me to have all the trinkets

[balmy condor]

Pretty gud

[open reef]

take both

xD

[balmy condor]

I mean mirror sucks lowkey

Definitely not something to look for

[royal lantern]

but it summons future me

and future me maybe doesnt suck at the game

[sharp viper]

I got ashes and signet brand in previous vaults too

so very likely just gonna add branch to the collection

[rotund oak]

game wants u to have branch and hate urself coz tis good but cringe

#rawfacts

[sharp viper]

I happily swapped to ashes on tindral progress a week ago cause fuck collecting orbs in p1

[balmy condor]

Not like any of this shit matters for your parse

I perma play acro + ashes these days out of pure laziness cause the tier is over

[rotund oak]

if u got ashes it doesnt rly matter,uve asquired perfection

[balmy condor]

And still getting 95’s

Cause like

None of this shit matters

Just crit your kb

5head move

Rng ass game

[sharp viper]

play outlaw you say?

[runic hinge]

Assa is just as rng as outlaw

As far as variance goes right now

[quiet oar]

All Rogue specs have similar RNG

Just in different ways

[runic hinge]

Acro instead of deeper?

[balmy condor]

Acro lethality over deeper alacrity

[runic hinge]

Yeee okie.

[rotund oak]

qol is a choice

i respect that

[balmy condor]

Can’t escape

Sub rng

Assa rng

Outlaw rng

[rotund oak]

play BM Hunter

[balmy condor]

At the end of p1 today on fyrakk I was at like 295k

And then very next pull

235

[rotund oak]

[balmy condor]

I mean that’s also aug cause details

But fucking Christ

wafting proccing after CDs, no fate mirror proc, the last 2 ticks of my opener kb not critting, and 5 less blindside procs

I’m pogging so hard man

Holy fuck I love not being in control of my damage

[rotund oak]

thats the reason sub gives a better feeling

well it doesnt lul

but ye

it sucks so hard

fukin procs

[balmy condor]

Good thing I’m spending brain power in order to pool correctly for an extra +500 dps

When shit I can’t control is swinging me 50k

Very cool and epic gameplay

[rotund oak]

revert the stupid nerfs

there is just no reason for sin to suffer this

[balmy condor]

Nerfs got nothing to do with it

Sin is fine

[rotund oak]

it would be better though wo nerfs

[balmy condor]

It’s just a fucking slot machine

[balmy condor]

It would be worse actually

[rotund oak]

[balmy condor]

Reverting the nerf means more kingsbane damage

Which means even more of your total damage

Is that shit fucking ability

[runic hinge]

15% more kb damage is bigger variance

[sharp viper]

variance doesn't matter as much if you're out dpsing your fellow raid either way

[rotund oak]

well ye we like more dmg but what can we do,idk buff sin then

cook something

sin didnt deserve those nerfs

its fukin stupid

its so obvious

[balmy condor]

What are you talking about

[rotund oak]

about the nerfs,revert them

u care about stupid rng variance

[balmy condor]

Yes I do

[rotund oak]

its stupid i agree

[balmy condor]

The balance is fine though

[rotund oak]

i just want more of sin

[balmy condor]

Sin doesn’t need bigger number

It just needs more consistent number

[sharp viper]

I would prefer the 3% aura nerf to be reverted over kingsbane nerf

[sharp viper]

me want bigger number though

[balmy condor]

Of course

Everyone wants bigger number

[rotund oak]

im down for that lets go

gief consistency

[balmy condor]

But monkey brain wanting bigger number does not mean it makes any sense

[blazing jewel]

bigger number make brain good

[runic hinge]

Make MA 100% for 5 seconds again

Then it’s consistent

[balmy condor]

Problem with that is we’d perma play dance

Like through the entire next expac too

[rotund oak]

we do that anyway now dont we

[balmy condor]

Talent balance is kinda like a big game of jenga for assa right now

There’s stuff that’s very good

But they all connect

If you pull one of them out

[sharp viper]

i don't know what talent changes / hero talents are coming up with TWW for assa but atm I would think so

[balmy condor]

The whole thing crashes

[blazing jewel]

crab tree never crashes

[rotund oak]

i think that dance is just too powerful a button to miss

[runic hinge]

[rotund oak]

personally i think it was an oopsie from a design perceptive

coz u narrow all 3 specs into a singular powerful node

all 3 rogue specs play dance

[balmy condor]

Ya

[sharp viper]

isn't nightstalker the culprit there for assa?

[rotund oak]

nightstalker just buffs whats there

[sharp viper]

outlaw got crackshot making dance essential and well sub is sub

[rotund oak]

dance is the real problem i think

u tap into so much power it makes no sense to not take

[balmy condor]

Dance is a problem for multiple reasons, but it’s mainly nightstalker and master assassin

Ambush stuff is kinda “the point” of dance

But dance also enables the rest of stealth stuff

Crack shot, garrote talents

So it’s just

Way too many things

It’s essentially +200% to garrote talents

Which would be fine

If it wasn’t also nightstalker

And also master assassin

And also ambush

[rotund oak]

like if u go back into sin talent history u will see that MA made vanish adps cooldown coz u tapped into 100% crit chance

which was crazy

now that the ''dance window'' is stronger than the regular vanish u cant have that crit chance

so u gut MA

idk how that makes sense from a design perceptive

its like jumping from one foot to another

[sharp viper]

speaking of design perspective, was there word about the trickster hero talent tree getting reworked?

[rotund oak]

no idea but tbh im rly waiting for the beta

wanna check stuff

[vestal wren]

no, just a bad first impression

the main appeal of any hero talent is the initial node because it defines the new core concept of the tree

and so far only few specs did dissapoint quite noticably, trickster was one of them

so overall, blizz does a good job with the trees

[oak tangle]

i remember the days where sin dps was the dps you'd end up with about 30s into the fight

perfectly flat line

somehow we now the opposite

[fringe oxide]

I'm kinda missing the no pi sin. I hope this bad take will not get me lynched. The gameplay is better. The need for evoker and priest is not.

[clever sapphire]

no worries, nobody wants to be PI dependant

[oak tangle]

give me a spec that doesn't want those any day

[clever sapphire]

its not a hot take, its a good take

[vestal wren]

pi is just a consequence of cooldown design

putting more damage in bleeds and take it out of KB could work well to reduce the burst/rng

[oak tangle]

i don't mind it, and to make kb even relevant it kinda needs the power to be there

and i prefer a world with kb

[vestal wren]

KB does not need to be the majority of your damage to be relevant

[oak tangle]

they just need to remove parry, and possibly make dots crit independant

[fringe oxide]

It makes the spec have nice gameplay for sure. Even though my fellow raiders don't understand the damage patterns.

[fringe oxide]

Would you suggest an amplifier? Affliction warlocks have malefic rapture but a lot of people think that smells

[vestal wren]

critical strike on damage ticks will impact your output with KB beeing so strong

but i understand why KB "needs to be there"

[oak tangle]

there would have to be a hell of a lot of tuning to lower kb output, especially in m+ where kb + caustic has gone a long way to fixing it's uselessness as a spec

[vestal wren]

with the current design change

because cuastic spatter and some other things are designed around it

[oak tangle]

that's why i say make dots crit independant, or have them take the crit value and use it differently than "crit chance"

[vestal wren]

that sounds like a complicated solution to a simple problem

[balmy condor]

yea idk bout that

[oak tangle]

i know

but. they did it in another game to solve high variance on big burst hits

is why i thought about it

[vestal wren]

there are 2 easy ways to remove crit rng

either make something never crit or always crit

[oak tangle]

yeah, both of which ruin MA interaction and usefulness of crit stat

[spiral pasture]

always crits, crit chance increases dmg. easy fix no?

[vestal wren]

i mean the alternative is just have damage elsewhere (shift damage away from on big ability)

i don't think most peopl would mind if rupture would tick higher

[oak tangle]

hence i suggest that dots take crit chance value and turn it essentially into a increase dot damage value

but that is complicated and game wide

[rotund oak]

in terms actual numbers crit is just an amp for dmg inc

[spiral pasture]

that seems more complicated than balancing 1 ability

no other dot has that issue

[rotund oak]

so u take a base value of e.g 100 dot dmg and multiply it with 1.5

[vestal wren]

the crit rng applies to any hard hitting ability

e.g. it was for dfa, and is for secret too

[oak tangle]

can we jsut make MA 100% again?

does that fix it

[rotund oak]

doubt it,it will make sin very powerful again

100% crit will make a bursty specc burst even harder

and delete all shorts of variance

[vestal wren]

it would increase burst

[oak tangle]

but you can tune it without variance

[rotund oak]

u basicly lock the specc behind a crit amp

[oak tangle]

i mean it kinda already is though

[rotund oak]

its not locked

its rng based

[oak tangle]

and you just pray that both last ticks crit

[rotund oak]

but ye i get what u mean

[vestal wren]

btw. i don't think removing rng entirely

is a design dirction blizz looks into

[oak tangle]

true, but how many specs are tied to 2 ticks of a dot every 2 minutes as a dps swing chance

[rotund oak]

yeah i think the same

blizzard always aims on shaping a meta

they know beforehand how a raid looks,how content looks and shape classes accordingly

claiming anything else from a design perceptive is just naive

[vestal wren]

this falls back to my initial statement

if you reduce the impact of KB

and shift this damage into bleeds

[spiral pasture]

what about rng other specs have thats not crit but also causes big variance

[vestal wren]

it would still be rly good for DM

just would shift damage form KB to bleeds

[spiral pasture]

is crit rng uniquely bad?

[oak tangle]

i mean i am not opposed to putting another ability on a choice node with kb, that is more bleed focussed

[vestal wren]

no

[oak tangle]

but i think that kb having the whole window planned out is a good tihng

[vestal wren]

critical strike is just a stat that increases damage output

with a non linear progression

[oak tangle]

and i think diminishing it's power is a negative towards the enjoyment of the spell

[vestal wren]

KB did not do the same damage in Legion

and peole still loved pressing it

but ye maybe, maybe it needs to be this strong to be enjoyable

[royal lantern]

yes i know its weird for sub and all that stuff

but i still think that its just ridicolous that sub rupture does like 2x the dmg

why is the dot on a "dot spec" so much weaker lol

it just doesnt make sense

[vestal wren]

to be fair, realz did buff ruptur for sin exclusive in 10.2

[oak tangle]

cause they threw the power of nightblade into rupture

[vestal wren]

no

the reason rupture does more is mostly because of damage amps/nodes

[rotund oak]

nightblade was worlds apart from rupture

[oak tangle]

it was, but in making rupture the spell to use on sub again instead of nightblade, it makes sense that it's a strong ability

i know it's not exactly 1 to 1

[royal lantern]

nightblades was a "so you do atleast SOMETHING else then just spamming backstab 2-3x->eviscerate" button

[rotund oak]

i think that sub should have a ''replace rupture'' with nightblade node

[vestal wren]

moment, lets have a look back at nightblade together

[rotund oak]

to feed sub more as a specc

like energy per tick or something

[oak tangle]

i think that nightblade is coming back in hero talents

the sin/sub tree

could use it

[rotund oak]

would love to see that

[vestal wren]

alright

so do you see what i see

[rotund oak]

Nothing see nightblade is amazing 😄

[royal lantern]

nightblades was a maintenance buff

rupture is a dmg dot

different abilitys

[rotund oak]

absolutely love it

[pseudo hamlet]

Tbh I wouldn't like to see any new abilities, we've got enough already
I'd rather see some talents that would actually help us with M+/AoE or give use better options than focusing mostly on KB

[rotund oak]

nightblade did some dmg and on a shorter cd

but ye true

[royal lantern]

nobody said more abilitys here tbh

most people here are more on the "take some dmg out of KB and spread it out too the dots" part

inc: soviet saying WTF NO ITS PERFECT PLAY OUTLAW IF YOU WANT LESS BURST

[oak tangle]

i would position nightblade as a rupture replacement not in addition

[vestal wren]

7.1:

[pseudo hamlet]

Oh, then it's fine. Move alone

[vestal wren]

overall nightblade did less damage

and did last shorter

[oak tangle]

but it was also a damage amp through talents no?

[vestal wren]

so putting nightblades power in "rupture" would mean cryppling the damage not empowering it

[royal lantern]

nightblades was a generic "do X% more dmg" maintenance ability, just slightly hidden under a dot

[vestal wren]

that was later in legion, 7.1.5

they changed nightblade to do even less tick damage and added a damage amp to compensate

[royal lantern]

like, sub in general has this Problem that they kinda struggle with the "out of dance" loop

cus it quickly turns into stab->stab->evicersate->repeat until dance is ready

[vestal wren]

subtlety outside of cooldowns is mostly maintainance

[oak tangle]

i don't find it in a bad state atm, but that's cause 2 dance charges and you sync them to SOD, rather than previously just dance on cd

BFA was alot of wtf am i doing i've just double danced

[vestal wren]

it is rly difficult to say

because subtlety right now is impacted by the tier set to a bigger degree

the additional combo points you get do shorten the downtime

[royal lantern]

parsing as sub is just the same rng meme as parsing as assa is lmao

[vestal wren]

yes

subtlety has a high damage variation pull to pull

[royal lantern]

get shadow rupture dots during good moments and regulary and many tier set cp procs

[vestal wren]

so you gamble for parses

[royal lantern]

[oak tangle]

remove finality from rupture and solve both problems?

[vestal wren]

but as you mentioned

a lot of it is borrowed power

tier set rng, sophic rng, trinket procs

[royal lantern]

i hope they do not do these rng enchants again next expansion

[vestal wren]

it is likely that they do

[royal lantern]

or like, not too this degree atleast

[oak tangle]

I keep saying, just bring back artifact weapons, make them evergreen

[vestal wren]

because of how you balance around proc vs. static

[orchid pewter]

nah, fuck that

[vestal wren]

a proc based spell is typically tuned higher because you can't control it

a damage effect or passive increase is lower for the reason of control

[oak tangle]

the current talent trees are essentially concordance of the legionfall

[vestal wren]

ofc. exceptions can break this general design rule

[oak tangle]

i'd rather farm AP than farm a nick

is all im gonna say

[orchid pewter]

idk, i think thats a you think you do, but you dont thing

[vestal wren]

i am not sure if nick is part of s4

[oak tangle]

i have played the game less since they remove AP

[orchid pewter]

thats not a good metric imo

[oak tangle]

grinding for power is more of a fun thing for me than grinding for a mog

[vestal wren]

AP had a big catchup to it

so farming was only short time beneficial

[oak tangle]

I find myself not touching world quests anymore, back when there was AP and weekly caches behind doing a certain number I was more interested

[vestal wren]

worldquests are in a weird place

[oak tangle]

the optionality of DF has basically made me choose to not do things

[vestal wren]

because they are not supposed to be long term content, but rather content you do at the start of a patch

[orchid pewter]

did you enjoy doing wqs?

[spiral pasture]

its fine not to have to play wow every day

[vestal wren]

what you are saying is, you want this to change?

i think TWW might have something for you

[spiral pasture]

instead of feeling like your missing out

[oak tangle]

I liked the incentive to do your 3 world quests each half week that brought about the cache

[vestal wren]

the new pve system with heroic level rewards in the weekly chest

i am a bit split on this system btw.

i like having more options to get gear, but it either gets irrelevant or mandatory long term

[spiral pasture]

assuming it wont be something we do after few weeks

[oak tangle]

once i got both portals in the azure span, i've had no reason or will to go to that zone

[spiral pasture]

hc lvl rewards we get from doing m+ anyway

[clever sapphire]

same i stopped doing anything but raidlog like 1 and a half months ago

[spiral pasture]

so not something that seems super impactful

[clever sapphire]

[spiral pasture]

unless it has some super strong exclusive items

[vestal wren]

is that a bad thing?

[spiral pasture]

that are rng weekly time gated

[vestal wren]

i think there is value in being able to put down a game and come back once a new update drops

[oak tangle]

it will be interesting to see how engaging the delve system is going to be

[orchid pewter]

idk i think this season in regards to obtaining gear is insanely good

[vestal wren]

wow is designed to keep you playing with things like the trading post or other systems

[orchid pewter]

ofc you have to get lucky with vault to get your 0.1% bis but its really good with crests, crafting and so on

there will always be rng, if there is non it would get insanely boring really fast

[vestal wren]

but a lot of the optional content lacks a good hook

so raid logging or taking breaks seems like its a good solution

[oak tangle]

i mean it can never be an objective opinion, as this topic of game enjoyment is the most subjective of things, but in my opinion, having something to do is better than having the ability to complete the stuff and log off for half a week

[vestal wren]

one thing to wow is

[spiral pasture]

m+ vault is too rng

[vestal wren]

you need to enjoy the grind

[orchid pewter]

i mean there is tons you can do, but there is just nothing you are forced to do this season

[spiral pasture]

and nobody enjoys doing 50 of the same dungeon for 1 specific item either

[vestal wren]

and you need to like the gearing loop

because both define the bassline gameplay

[oak tangle]

i get that, the way i play the game is 100% power related

[orchid pewter]

thats the thing tho, except for maybe trinkets you can get close to bis, with crafting, upgrading and stuff like that

[spiral pasture]

yes but every season there are trinkets clearly better than others and often times random weapons too

[oak tangle]

but that's just my predisposition, i mean i love games like poe, and am hooked into last epoch atm, which are all continuous power seeking

[spiral pasture]

nobody cares about off pieces that are easy to get

[orchid pewter]

i mean ofc there is, but gear is rarely a limiting factor

people are just obsessed with it

[rotund oak]

Here's what i think all rogue specs should have :(Yes its a raid dmg amp)

1. Assassination :<< Murderous Intent >> : ''Envenom exploits the targets weaknesses increasing all damage taken by 1%
2. Outlaw : << Pirate's Plunder >> : ''Dispatch increases all party's/raid's haste by 1%''
3. Subtetly : << Shadow's Will >> : ''Eviscerate shreds through the enemies defenses applying a debuff that bypasses ''X'' amount of armor''
   And thus u get all rogue specs viable for raid 😍

[orchid pewter]

its not gear keeping people from clearing mythic or doing 25+ keys

its skill, and knowledge

idk

[oak tangle]

i personally dislike how easy gear is to obtain at the moment, it trivialised my guilds prog this expac, into 3-4 week AOTC and then just shy of max levelled gear without touching mythic

[vestal wren]

disagree

[orchid pewter]

remove raid buffs

[vestal wren]

adding raid buffs is not always good

[rotund oak]

not happening sry 😦

[vestal wren]

and in your case

assassination: all damage increased by X%
outlaw: all haste increased by X%
subtlety: physical damage increased by X%

[spiral pasture]

there should be a way by the end of the season to have the best gear if you do the hardest content regularly

[rotund oak]

that means 3 rogues each raid 🤝

[vestal wren]

physical damage is the worse in the game

so reducing armor is the weakest of the 3

it is also more specific

[oak tangle]

remove the heroic cap for dungeons, and remove the myth track upgrades from items not gotten from a 22+ or mythic raid

[rotund oak]

idk about that but ye make it all dmg taken coverted to shadow dmg the 1%

[vestal wren]

lets make an example

"rogue is a physical damage class"

[rotund oak]

its not purely

but ye for the economy of the conversation

lets proceed

[oak tangle]

bring back 100% effectiveness scrolls

[vestal wren]

but well

assassinaiton has most things not benefit from fw

[oak tangle]

my guild would love to stock up on battle shout scrolls

[vestal wren]

and same with subtlety

a lot of damage even on physical damage classes is not pure physical anymore

[rotund oak]

yup

i get what u mean

[vestal wren]

and it means >50% of damage of sub is magic

and more than 70% of sin

[oak tangle]

heck, delete scrolls from the game

just make raid instances apply raid buffs

[vestal wren]

scrolls ended up decent for raids

when you had something missing

we don't have scrolls now unless i am mistaken

[oak tangle]

zone in? get fort

[vestal wren]

a lot of the raid buffs are proc effects

[oak tangle]

that will obviously break the game, and cause one sided classes for RWF

[vestal wren]

you need to actively attack a target to apply it

[oak tangle]

but it free up casual guilds from the "we need x" mentality

[vestal wren]

the raid combos are already "Broken"

[rotund oak]

gief scroll of windfury

[vestal wren]

you wouldn't go into mythic without a dh

just one example

[vestal wren]

haha

i think the solution to raid buffs would be to allow more classes/specs to apply them

[rotund oak]

yup

that would solve alot of drama and stupid rerolling etc

i wanna apply into a CE guild and i have to have a ranged alt

fully prepped

[subtle tundra]

💀

wat

fucking world 1500 guilds with dumbass requirements

[blazing jewel]

MUST HAVE BOW OFFSPEC

[rotund oak]

ranged or tank

else f@ck you mr rogue

[oak tangle]

yo imagine a range rogue, i'd be down for that

[royal lantern]

wr50-200 and wr1200+ guilds tend to have the same amount of raiddays, alt requirments and racism

its funny

[royal lantern]

yeha cool

say goodbye to assa/sub/outlaw forever then

really cool

[oak tangle]

XD

they'll never let us have instant casts as a range

bm is an exception

[royal lantern]

i LOVE multiple specs beeing dead unless its OP because the class has ranged options

what survival? feral? what?

[oak tangle]

we'd at least be going from melee to a range option not the opposite

[subtle tundra]

feral has been pretty played this patch though! cause boomkin dies from any 2 consecutive mechanics

[vestal wren]

you can get ce as rogue just fine

but some ranged classes are always needed, and your chances to get the spot is higher

the problem is, you need to have fun

if you don't enjoy the ranged, no reason to play it

[rotund oak]

yup i made a huge gamble playing sub this tier but i swapped my interest from killing the dragon to learning sub again

and i dont mind tbh

i love rogue as a total

[vestal wren]

the game is inherently pseudo competitive

[rotund oak]

i love playing rogue

[vestal wren]

so even wr 10.000 will tell you to spam m+ 24/7 for the first month or search a other guild

[rotund oak]

ild do that anyway tbh to rush gear

its not like i will have issues doing meaningful keys early

[vestal wren]

higher ranks work because you don't need to tell people to spam m+

[rotund oak]

its just that having an alt fully prepped

[vestal wren]

because they do so by default

[rotund oak]

yup

[subtle tundra]

that first week is the most fun ;3

[rotund oak]

funny side story on the launch of this season i crafted 1st day a 486 dagger for 300k gold

[royal lantern]

when it needs the ranged dps option to be in a really rough state on multiple fronts AND the melee spec to be tuned somewhat above average at the same time, just so that the melee option is not seen as a troll Pick

yeha, there is a small problem overall

giving a class ranged and melee dps options always just kills melee

[vestal wren]

feral and sv

[rotund oak]

[vestal wren]

but it is overall worse

because pure dps classes do have competition within each other

and as you saw with rogue, if there was never a design to give each spec a unique reason to play

you end up with fotm depending on tuning

on the other site, one dps classes will try to shove everything into one spec

[rotund oak]

yeah exactly

[vestal wren]

so playing dh can be as good as plaing rogue

even tho rogue has 3 dps specs

and should as a consequence have a higher chance of beeing good

(and this was the case in bfa/sl, Rogue was more times than not optional)

(even tho this is more related to the dh raid buff)

[rotund oak]

DH has a raid debuff and raid cd

rogue doesnt

and also doesnt need to think,its a mongol specc

assuming we talking about havoc

[bleak plume]

Have you played havoc in raid on dh?

It's far from "not having to think" lol

[sharp viper]

it's "don't fel rush into deadly mechanic"

[vestal wren]

i think stealthi mentioned that dh is quite difficult now in terms of gameplay

[sharp viper]

they went from 2 buttons to having like 8

[kind forge]

it's not all about the button count

[vestal wren]

you are correct on that

[rotund oak]

poor DHs man

i feel for them

[spice spire]

[summer elm]

In gear i can have 2 of them with The power of decay and the boots with the poison enchant at the same time correct?
Or just 1 power of decay

[bleak plume]

One decay and boots

[tepid hornet]

to maximize envonom uptime during kingbane, is to have the envenom passive active the whole time, not so the direct dmg from envenom?

[bleak plume]

Yes the passive that increases poison application chance which kingsbane scales from

But also the more hits you do, the bigger amount of poisons applied, so both kinda

[tepid hornet]

should i try always be above 50% energy for sanguine blades?

so simply, i gain dps by staying above 50%? passively

[quartz prawn]

hi^^
i paused wow for 2months now and started again....
i played an assa rogue and still love it but i forgot how to play it good xD
im on 480 GS and i tried me on the damage puppet and i was on single target on peak on 200k dps.. it think its ok for a new start....
but could u tell me how i manage with my energy? and whats the best way to rotate in aoe?
i was in m+19 and i sucked so hard... i know its alot with movement ect but i had so low dmg....
and im not able to hold my dps in ST.... i am fast very low in energy

[bleak plume]

Not worth playing around that, you play around 4pc tier bonus with envenoming while current envenom buff is still active

[unique plume]

I became an "Ashes of the Embersoul" enjoyer... Today in vault : Myth track Branch ....

[sharp viper]

same brother, same

the branch is calling

[shy pecan]

You just garrote/rupture as much stuff for damage + energy and then use your CDs. And if things are dying too fast, then need to decide what is more important: everything dotted up or prio targeting

Though, should also be firing CDs as much as possible because that seems to be a thing that newer sin players struggle with

[quartz prawn]

so i try to get all mobs in an aoe with garrote and rupture. after i have all i use cds,

i generate combo points with my aoe skill right?

[shy pecan]

You do it with your build-up ideally.

Because of IC.

[quartz prawn]

ic?

[shy pecan]

Indiscriminate Carnage:

That with this:

[quartz prawn]

ah ye right, its in german "willkürliches gemetzel" xD

so stealth, garrote and rupture on all mobs.

ye i learned on pala to everytime use the cds. most ppl hold there cds for the situation. but when u wait 1min they would be up again xD

[shy pecan]

Ideally yes

[wild birch]

Does the pandemic timer for envenom change with TTK?

[royal lantern]

junge, die #1 regel

spiele keine games auf deutsch

egal was

[quartz prawn]

🤷🏼‍♂️

[shy pecan]

Just let the man be lol

I play WoW in French, despite being in the US

[royal lantern]

no more :3 buddy anymore

french

[shy pecan]

:3

Blame colonization

[royal lantern]

can i blame shmeeps aswell?

[shy pecan]

Obv

[royal lantern]

@keen spruce ffs man

[shy pecan]

I tried to learn some German in college, but dat syntax

[quartz prawn]

This Sequence is Right?^^

[royal lantern]

ye

[quartz prawn]

Ok ty

[sick flume]

in 5+ target... am i trying to keep garrote and rupture up on all 5?

[shy pecan]

Ideally, especially with IC

and with Scent of Blood

[sick flume]

hmmm ... does IC proc off vanish as well?

[shy pecan]

Yes

Vanish and Shadow Dance will let you get IC

[warm ravine]

was there a macro for KB and SD?

[shy pecan]

Yeah, it's just

/cast Kingsbane```

[warm ravine]

hrm okay maybe mine was backwards i'll try ty.

[shy pecan]

Order matters.

Also, if you use it when you're in the middle of a GCD, it'll fire Dance, but not Kingsbane

[warm ravine]

hrm didn't take, just casted KB

[shy pecan]

Did you do it outside of Vanish/Subterfuge?

[warm ravine]

yes

[rare jackal]

guess which spell

[warm ravine]

just unstealthed.

[shy pecan]

It should work. I just did it and it was working for me.

[warm ravine]

would hlep if i had a target LMAO sorry ty

[royal lantern]

mood

[shy pecan]

I've never been parried in my life

[runic hinge]

iridikron is my arch nemesis when it comes to parry

[shy pecan]

Git rekt

[keen spruce]

[warm ravine]

when we enter the subterfuge window with SD what's our main priority?

[runic hinge]

[runic hinge]

Garrote

[warm ravine]

Double tap garrote and finisher with? Whatever prio list says?

[runic hinge]

Not double tap garrote. Maybe try wowhead for the opener again

[gilded oasis]

bout to double tap.. uh who havent I picked on lately uhhh.. double tap whispyr

[runic hinge]

[viscid spear]

[flat pike]

what poisons do we use for 1v1 pvp?

[shy pecan]

#pvp probably will have the best answer for that

[forest nacelle]

the moment i get told "i found someone better" this late in raid.... man, didn't even get to first trash pack before getting to this xD

got replaced by a 489 something i found out, what a punk....

[unique nymph]

Guys... what is better trinket to use crab or pip?

[runic hinge]

Sim

[unique nymph]

Im using ashes

now i have choise

choice*

So im not sure which one would be better

[runic hinge]

Depends on your other gear

[gusty mirage]

you should probably swap those daggers my friend

[unique nymph]

Ye

dw

[gusty mirage]

are both trinkets 483?

[unique nymph]

Yes

I have mythic branch too

but i think ashes is better

[gusty mirage]

ashes definitely a billion times less annoying to use, it's probably a coinflip tbh if you were playing branch I'd say easy pips but crab is big mastery + avoidance which is always nice

[unique nymph]

I've been playing ashes for some time... but yeah... i think crab is kinda better cuz of mastery cuz it is really nice proc

[cunning geyser]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[warm ravine]

just swapped from outlaw, have like 18% haste, is this a direct affect as to why my energy regen is trash? lol

[balmy condor]

no

[warm ravine]

can't even get through opener w/o waiting for energy, am i too finger happy?

[balmy condor]

you're either not using tea where you're supposed to, not applying bleeds, or you don't have poisons on

[warm ravine]

2/3 of those are correct, ty.

[balmy condor]

np

[limber lion]

[past forum]

One of my tanks saw me reapplying poisons in the middle of our first Kazzara kill and kept flaming me for it XD

[gilded oasis]

same but not kazzara

[gusty mirage]

@gilded oasis there's a lock in this pug and he hasn't put down a closet once, AMA

[gilded oasis]

[runic hinge]

What’s your favorite fruit

[gilded oasis]

wtf are you pugging

[gusty mirage]

watermelon

[gusty mirage]

heroic

surely I get leggo

[gilded oasis]

weve had 3 alts, a healer, and 2 plate wearers get leggos and our ret (main) still hasnt

[gusty mirage]

if I get it tonight

send them this

[gilded oasis]

lol

and then like 3 random casuals in guild have gotten

[shy pecan]

glgl

[keen spruce]

why doesn't your ret have it guaranteed this week

man's been slackin

[gilded oasis]

he missed 1 week due to internet issues and I guess decided he didnt need to pug it

idk its not my lego I dont know how it works

[keen spruce]

our UHDK finally got it this week with the 100%

and our poor warlock

still doesn't have a belors

from any difficulty

[gusty mirage]

just loot it off mythic tindral

????

[keen spruce]

our mythic tindral loot was criminal

[gilded oasis]

assuming next Tues is his 100%

[keen spruce]

one tier, cloth belt, leather shoes, and like a shitty staff

staff went to transmog, belt and boots went to offspec

[past forum]

Is the projected timeline for fyralath confirmed true or are we still just speculating?

[woeful meteor]

think it's datamined

[balmy condor]

Ya it’s datamined

[keen spruce]

i datamined that whipsyr is a qt patootie

[gusty mirage]

@gilded oasis @shy pecan no leggo

[gilded oasis]

[shy pecan]

Next week for sure

[runic hinge]

[balmy condor]

Impossible

That’s not written in the files

[runic hinge]

The archives must be incomplete

[spice spire]

I found it too bozo

[storm forum]

Private aura buff

[static hedge]

on fyrakk, is dream rend counted as aoe? ie effected by feint.

[balmy condor]

Yes

[bronze pike]

datamined but its only 100% (allegedly) if you killed fyrakk from the start blp

i only say this, cause alot of people thought it was a weekly increase thus didnt need to kill heroic fyrakk

[drifting cloud]

its prob not 100% accurate but close enough, it says 6 mythic kills for 100% aswell, one of our raiders didnt have it with that

oh nvm I read it wrong, its 6 embers, 7 kills

[violet flint]

hey guys, i just have a question about garotte and rupture applied from stealth, should you always let them run out because they are empowered or should you just reapply at like 3-5 sec?

[royal lantern]

Let empowered dots run out

[violet flint]

alright thanks, got the info that if you reapplied then the empowered version carried over, but i guess that isnt true

[balmy condor]

Duration carries over, but any damage multipliers do not

Damage is entirely based around the new cast

[hollow dirge]

we could just have empowered garrote on 100% uptime then , that would be nice

it's spec identity, to play around strong dots, this would just be dumb 😄

[balmy condor]

Good chance we drop dance if that happened

Tbh

[hollow dirge]

yeah

[balmy condor]

Cold blood gaming

[hollow dirge]

for that op envenom 😄

[royal lantern]

cant wait for the whisp fatebound wowhead post

[hollow dirge]

“It would be good in m+, if there were no other rogue specs competing”

[sharp viper]

and the group lead accidentally misclicks to invite you instead of a mage/spriest

[royal lantern]

nah, trying to stay positive in an article for a tree that probably has a giant outlaw focus, and then 1-2 random assa abilitys thrown in

can allready see it comming

• name needs to change anyway, cus wtf is that anyway

[balmy condor]

It’s funny cause I’m always seen as meanie poopface mcRudeDude negativity level 100

And then I talk about balance and talents and I’m like “it’s not that bad, don’t be so negative” and then I get dunked for all sorts of shit like “asking for rogue nerfs”

Can’t win

Stays positive -> why are you positive the spec is SHIT

Is negative -> whispyr you fucking meanie doomer stop bitching

[royal lantern]

tbf, i look like a big doomer all the time, but thats mostly cus i dont say the positive things out loud

should change that tbh

[balmy condor]

So… you’re German?

Nicht gescholden ist genug gelobt

[royal lantern]

unironically yes

will always find smth to complain about, doesnt mean its bad

if i would think everything is bad i would just not play it

and im playing it right now where it is objectively worse then sub in all regards, simply because i enjoy the gameplay and the feeling

[balmy condor]

You enjoy the WHAT

[royal lantern]

doesnt stop me from complaining about bonespike

[balmy condor]

Covenants should’ve stayed in shadowlands

This is my take

[royal lantern]

eh, for me its like

[balmy condor]

My other take is that it’s 4:30 in the morning and I really should sleep

[royal lantern]

same overall, BUT i can also see why they want sepsis and ER to stay

even if i dont agree

[balmy condor]

Yah

Sepsis and ER have very specific gameplay

Which is good and healthy

[royal lantern]

SBS is just weird

[balmy condor]

But idk

Can just make that gameplay with stuff that isn’t sepsis and er

[rotund oak]

Put cataclysm rogue into retail 🤝

[balmy condor]

No

?

[rotund oak]

yes

?

[balmy condor]

Why tf we asking for gameplay for 13 years ago

Game was ass

[rotund oak]

coz it was amazing to be a rogue that time around and everyhting made sense

also we had fangs

[balmy condor]

“Everything made sense”

Talking about cata

Yeah okay

That’s my queue for bed time

The cooking is too much

[rotund oak]

goal achieved

[royal lantern]

like, my "Problems" rn are:

kingsbane is cool, but too much of the overall dmg is on it, Spread that dmg out a bit into other abilitys

sbs is a ability that just doesnt really need to exist imo

some of the very generic "you do X% more dmg" talents should be replaced with some utility or deffensive talents (i personaly think that utility/deffensive talents should not be in any spec tree, that stuff should be class tree for all classes, but they decided otherwhise and assa having 100% offensive stuff is the weird one rn, so maybe change it)

overthink sanguine blades, i get the idea and why it exits etc...., but i would prefer a more "active" talent that encourages pooling like the current 4set, and not "you do passive more dmg when doing nothing"

[royal lantern]

tbh, cata sub would be a improvment over shadowdust sub

[rotund oak]

so true

dust is basicly torture

[gusty mirage]

Replacing damage with utility or defensive nodes in the spec tree is bad

And you should feel bad for typing that out

[royal lantern]

read further

[subtle tundra]

He can't read...

[royal lantern]

like, i 100% agree that utility/deffensive stuff in spec trees in cringe

but im trying to be realistic here lol

they wont change 30+ spec trees to not have that stuff anymore, so might aswell give assa some and make it equal with the others

[gusty mirage]

Nope

You stick to your guns of utility defensive in class tree or you and me are breaking up

Your choice

[peak bobcat]

based

[gaunt moat]

Well i got bad news for you, because sin hero tree will buff kingsbane further.
Yes, both of them

They'll add 2 more buttons you need to press during KB, so you'll always have something to do in the timeline if KB usage.

I already know what you're gonna ask
"But won't that make KB too strong?"
Well yes. but don't worry, they'll nerf it all 3 weeks into expansion and you'll be left with a complex spec to pull off correctly with a very moderate reward for effort 👍🏻

[royal lantern]

i mean, 1tree giving more focus on burst windows, aka KB for assa is fine

[gaunt moat]

NO IT'S BOTH

[royal lantern]

when both end up kinda the same, sure, would suck

but looking at the trees they showed us, that was not really the case that 2 did almost the same thing

[gaunt moat]

rogue is special

[royal lantern]

it has very special players indeed

[dark token]

Idk why people complain about all ur dmg being in ur 1 min cd

Bursty 1 min CD or 2 min CD is the best dmg profile in the game

And way more fun to burst big numbers imo

Both outlaw connected trees will be ruined by being connected to outlaw so gameplay will appease zoomers I can feel it

Only sub/sin tree has potential

[royal lantern]

cus beeing a spec that is based around dots and dot manangment having its dot dmg not really mattering is just ???????

why is rupture a wet noodle

[dark token]

I mean the dots are just enabling engine for your burst which is fine imo

There is no true multidot spec anymore

And if there was that dmg profile is kinda flawed

[royal lantern]

and i like how you always turn it into "why dont you want burst???"

where did i say that kb should do 0 dmg wtf, it should just not be EVERYTHING

if i want a spec where the only dmg that matters is from 1 ability in a burst window and everything else doesnt matter really and is just filler, i play sub

[gaunt moat]

Let's be more accurate, it's 2m CD
KB without Deathmark + trinket is not gonna pull amazing numbers

I don't see much complaints, but there are negatives associated with most of your damage coming from a single ability.

• You do negative damage outside KB
• KB damage can vary WILDLY (usually between 2-4M)
• It devaluates every other ability
• Your spec choices become very rigid (I do think sin has more options now, but they all revolve KB)

[royal lantern]

like, let the specs be different, and not 2x "lol burst window is all your dmg and outside doesnt matter really, so 1 is always objectively better"

[dark token]

Maybe it's cause I personally really enjoy burst and seeing big numbers

I didn't like assa as much when it was kinda flat

And honestly it sucked more for raids/keys too

Because burst is king

[gaunt moat]

• if you nerf KB (which they did) spec becomes kinda.. meh.

[dark token]

Blizzard actively designs raid fights around 2 min cds

If you don't line up with that it's really awk

[royal lantern]

sure, and thats a valid thing, its just too much rn

i never said "delete kb" or "make kb dmg a joke"

kb IS awesome

the spec should just not be "kingsbane, the spec"

[dark token]

Im fine if it was deathmark the spec

But the problem is our cleave is based on poisons

So it needs to come from KB

If spatter also cleaved bleeds but KB was weak or not taken

I think that's fine

Other classes 2 mins like WW or something naturally enabled both cleave and ST burst

We rely on spatter for that, so it needs to come from KB

Hence I don't want KB removed or weaker in current state

I think changing spatter to work off bleeds tho would be too OP rn and you would need to nerf KB a lot and honestly that gameplay seems less fun

The ramping KB minmax gameplay is better than just wow I pressed deathmark and I passively do a lot more dmg now

I don't know if you remember sin when you took no sepsis or KB and it was just deathmark in s1/s2

It was pretty boring

Maybe I just like current sin a lot personally but I think it's the best iteration we ever had

[gaunt moat]

They just pigeonholed themselves into an ability that is very tricky to balance.
Make it strong? - it's very fun, but you see sin so high above everyone else in meters.
Make it mediocre? - it's not fun, it takes a lot of effort to use correctly, and you really feel how weak you are outside KB

[dark token]

I think sin is perfectly fine rn in raid, maybe a bit too tuned around PI but that's a seperate problem

Only reason its not good in m+ is lack of spec tree defenses compared to outlaw/sub

The dmg is slightly lower than law but the profile is insanely good (similar to fire mage) it would still be brought if it could live

And anyway I think the tuning is seperate from the gameplay of it. It actively feels very fun to me even if my dmg numbers are low

[gaunt moat]

That's a pretty good point.
And just shows you how much PI is a destructive ability for the balance of this game.

[dark token]

Only thing I don't really like is our 4set forcing envenom so hard

And devaluing CT

But the tree itself has good thoughts and pathing out into it, just a few defensives lacking

[clever sapphire]

MAKE BONESPIKE GREAT AGAIN

(its gonna get deleted before it becomes usefull)

[royal lantern]

"again"

[clever sapphire]

wasnt it like good for 2 days

xD

[dark token]

Bonespike is pretty meh without the legendary imo

And even then it's pretty meh without all the conduits supporting it

They should not have added every covenant ability for DF

Picked the best one, or two max

The others were clunky/forgettable

[royal lantern]

sbs rn is just

yeha cool, ambush 1x a min