assassination

[nimble zinc]

i feel like same case here on snek https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xpZyQ4bdnBvNVMgC#fight=36&type=damage-done&source=5

[oblique ridge]

i mean, 2 casts, 2m+ damage. so that was better

[nimble zinc]

Right but i feel like KB should be my #1, not Envenom, no?

[oblique ridge]

are you missing 4 piece bonus?

[nimble zinc]

no I have 4pc bonus but I dont see envenomous explosion on the logs, maybe they just factor it into envenom?

[oblique ridge]

must be

[spice spire]

I was in the pool (carpooling lane)

[nimble zinc]

cause on details I'm pretty sure it had KB as my #1 and Envenom as my #2

and EE was like #6 or 7

[subtle tundra]

@spice spire whats carpooling

[oblique ridge]

i think your right about kb being #1, i struggle with it too sometimes. get a good weakaura for showing the optimal kb window rotation so that combo becomes natural

[nimble zinc]

or like take my Gnarlroot score: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xpZyQ4bdnBvNVMgC#fight=10&type=damage-done&source=5 Here I feel like I had good uptime of KB and caustic splatter for cleave, but it still parsed low 😐

[oblique ridge]

also make sure you kb behind the dude so they dont parry it

[nimble zinc]

i didnt know that was a thing

[oblique ridge]

its not often, but does suck

[nimble zinc]

so always shadowstep before kb?

[fiery berry]

Shiv is important for KB. Thistle Tea too

[oblique ridge]

shadowstep works. or just walk behind it

[nimble zinc]

Yeah I usually use both. like my rotation is something like after poisons and bleeds are up I do Shiv > DM > (Shadowdance) > KB > envenom / rupture chain again, thistle tea, Branch, vanish, enveom chain again

[oblique ridge]

and yea, def shiv 2x and tea once per kb window

[nimble zinc]

throw a 2nd shiv in there too if i have it

I also have withered branch trinket,

usually either has me pop that at the beginning of rotation, or shortly after i pop KB

[fiery berry]

The last 5-6 seconds of KB's dot are the strongest. It might be a good idea to save shiv for then. If you have two shivs - one for the initial hit and one for those last seconds. Thistle Tea will boost mastery and therefore KB dmg

[oblique ridge]

shiv with 7 seconds left in kb
tea with 5ish sec left on kb
vanish with ❤️ sec left on kb, and i think you have to break stealth

also open with envenom at >5, deathmark, shiv, shadowdance, kb

[nimble zinc]

I think that's usually what my hero rotation tells me

[oblique ridge]

lol the heart is less than 3

[nimble zinc]

sometimes things are on CD tho

[oblique ridge]

yea

[nimble zinc]

like every other KB I dont have DM or Vanish cause theyre 2min cd

i was there was a way to reduce the CDs of DM/ vanish like outlaw can

[oblique ridge]

yep, so time those for important targets

or roughly 3 pulls from a boss

[nimble zinc]

it's easier to time it with KB in raid, harder in keys i feel like especially weeks like this with spiteful shades, cause I often find myself having to Vanish or shadowdance between pulls just to get the aoe garotte and rupture up

[oblique ridge]

depending on your groups speed

yea, same

if anyone has spiteful tricks to get back to stealth, id love to hear it

[nimble zinc]

only thing I can think of is SD/Vanish or kill the shades

[median flicker]

Hey quick question with the opener bit, how much am i fucking myself on a scale of 1-10 by doing it in this order ||Idk why i do this i need to fix it||

[dark token]

yes

all u have to do as sin is execute your deathmarks and dances correct and you will 90% + parse

[median flicker]

Im not envenoming before that, Im getting snd up

[dark token]

so make sure those windows are perfect

its a fixed sequence

[wraith burrow]

May have missed it in a guide, but at what duration do we want to refresh rupture? I also presume it's ok to overwrite should you be applying a higher damage version of the bleed?

[spice spire]

Having more than one person in ur car lets you be in a specific lane with less traffic

[midnight mist]

what

[spice spire]

?

[midnight mist]

is that a thing

[spice spire]

Yes

[midnight mist]

why would you hvae special lanes based on number of people in the car

is that an englishman thing

(im french)

[woeful meteor]

Make it more worthwhile, to get more people in the same car so roads are less overfilled

[subtle tundra]

Wtf

That's some American shit right there

[dark token]

encourage people to save energy and save road space by sharing vehicles instead of individually driving

[midnight mist]

crazy tech

[royal python]

Can kingsbane be parried from the sides? Or just from front

What's the rough angle relative to boss front beyond which no party

Parry*

[spice surge]

270

[arctic hare]

Should be within 30% of the duration left, so somethin like <8 seconds left or so?

[wraith burrow]

Thanks!

[dapper moat]

same with garrotte, refresh always when stealh ability procks?

[rotund oak]

u mean blindside?

blindside enables to use an ambush u emp garrote into dance or vanish

else the pandemic refresh comes outside stealth and it doesnt empower garrote,just adds the duration

[royal lantern]

sorry

[slate crown]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Mast = Crit = Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs like Witherbark's Branch and Wafting Devotion can often de-value the stat in question. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

[spice spire]

Real

[orchid haven]

For the Igira dagger, do we have a must pick guys ?

[spice rock]

I use mechanical always for the extra, small cheat death

[slate crown]

extra, small tiny heal when you are close to death*

[orchid haven]

And that's really usefull ? Or something else is relevant ?

[slate crown]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/884051675680231504/1095776137843585104/ezgif-4-6e8e986715-1.gif?width=187&height=125

[past forum]

none of them are particularly good. they're all just kinda there

[orchid haven]

Hmmm K thanks

[real pike]

you guys are doing keys as sin still?

when not tyrann at least

[spice spire]

Yes

[thorn fjord]

Don’t lie you ain’t doing any keys

[spice spire]

I ain’t playing the game

If I were

I’d be mutilating

[slate crown]

[runic hinge]

I haven't done a key as anything but assa all season

[nimble zinc]

I'm not sure what that means. why would i not play my class/spec?

[subtle tundra]

some people cant comprehend playing what you like

[gusty mirage]

not allowed

next you'll tell me world of warcraft is a video game and video games are supposed to be fun

[subtle tundra]

fuck you

bet you only play LA into TS bows

nothing else

you cant have an opinion around fun

[gusty mirage]

nah I play ice shot into TS bows

my mama aint raise no BITCH

[gilded oasis]

No fun allowed

[spice spire]

Real for that

[arctic socket]

Ice shot

[spice spire]

Poe breach

[runic hinge]

Wish there was a mod to do something about it. Never around when you need them.

[spice spire]

What I’m saying

This very serious channel must always remain on topic

Or else bans will occur

Something something 1968

[ember mural]

[gaunt moat]

woo got Tindral 🪅

[subtle tundra]

tell me more about car lanes

[spice spire]

Grats

[spice spire]

YOU ASKED

[subtle tundra]

hmmm

[spice spire]

I literally was just making a Seinfeld reference (it was extremely forced)

[subtle tundra]

whats seinfeld

[spice spire]

You wouldn’t know zoomer

(It was a show that started before I was born)

[subtle tundra]

americans would know

[spice spire]

Not necessarily

Show ended in like 1998

[runic hinge]

It’s like one of the most watched sitcoms of all time

[obtuse thicket]

oh lord I hate the new Archon/ the new design of subcreation lol

tried to figure out the top 3 assassin weapons but It states only the number one

[woeful meteor]

Nick of time

everything else is the same

[spice spire]

Real

[tawny geyser]

What website shows casts for certain encounters?
I need one for Mythic Nymue. Still confused on if I should hold my KB on adds.

[spice spire]

Full send pull > KB add > CDs on boss iirc

Also lorrgs

https://lorrgs.io

[waxen oyster]

why say top 3 when its just nick of time

[balmy condor]

All good things come in 3’s

Even if it doesn’t make any sense

[tawny geyser]

Meh... just killed it.
Slightly better than last time.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mR7twpYg1bN9f2XA#fight=39&type=damage-done&source=17

[balmy condor]

Seven minute nymue

That’s crazy

[tawny geyser]

very bad guild comp...
guild is falling apart a bit, so guild leader is pulling strings :/
probably gonna change next week

[balmy condor]

Yeh but you cranked

Gg

[waxen oyster]

7min nymue is prob decent for sin timings

its been so long though idk anymore

[gilded oasis]

Ggggggggs

[balmy condor]

Yeh you get dm at like 6:30

But 7 min is still insano slow

That’s gotta be like up against enrage

[spice spire]

Blud’s got that dispel Bob timer

[tawny geyser]

@balmy condor Now time to fix that Smolderon! 😄

so chain DM with Bl and PI

[gaunt moat]

soon you guys!

[gilded oasis]

You a funny bunny

[plain moon]

@balmy condor was reading r/wow and thought you might enjoy this

[balmy condor]

[plain moon]

This post was targeted at rogue specifically too

[balmy condor]

Yeah cause we talk shit about hekili all the time

[gilded oasis]

Because other classes TC and writers are lazy and people don't realize the work rogue TC put into the rotation and shit on simc

[spice spire]

I do

[waxen oyster]

i mean the fury rotation is alternate rampage and bloodbath

and press your cds when they come up

not much to automate

[bronze pike]

i do

its fine for some specs, but even with those specs it teaches bad habits. like slapping cd button when mobs are at 5% cause hekili told you

[waxen oyster]

its bad to build a reliance on an addon to play for you

[shy pecan]

Playing a little devil’s advocate. I read this just now. You cut off the part that says that Hekili uses the Raidbots APL part.

Not that I suggest people use it but he was technically right about that.

[quiet oar]

[plain moon]

I still think his statement is completely wrong. Using the APL for a sim is by far the best way to figure out gear upgrades, and is very flawed in actual gameplay to just follow what abilities the sim used

[balmy condor]

It ain’t no APL of mine I’ve seen hekili rotations during coaching do some insane shit for no reason

It just overcaps cp and slams cooldowns wildly

[spice spire]

The issue I’ve seen is that it guesses seal fate values

[balmy condor]

It might be based on the APL

[spice spire]

Which is like

[balmy condor]

But holy fuck it is nothing but cancer

[spice spire]

Never going to work

[balmy condor]

And then it goes yeah we have great support for assassination

[spice spire]

That’s why I never recommend it. It’s not a static rotation - it’s fluid based on procs and if you’re just using an example apl for that, it’ll never replicate to gameplay

[royal lantern]

might be because of me

cus there is that 1 guy that always bring it up, and told him multiple times its bad, espacialy for rogue where its not even really supported in the first place

[spice spire]

I mean I get the purpose of hekili but the implementation was never great for sin. So I’ve never recommended it

[plain moon]

The way I’ve always looked at addons like it is everybody plays differently and can make sense for some players. But if you’re interested in improving or playing the rotation optimally then it’s only going to hurt you

Reading this thread tho I have learned that the addon has a way bigger and very passionate fan base than I ever thought

[runic hinge]

Can hekili teach me outlaw

[shy pecan]

(1) when you get some sort of script to calculate all the conditions going on (e.g. mob health, your CDs, your resources, positioning), yeah, it's gonna fuck up (which is why we don't suggest it)
(2) it's still your APL, just interpreted into LUA... by a human. lol

[quiet oar]

@rugged warren

Can answer this

[spice spire]

It doesn’t teach as much as it just does it for you.
I’ve found teaching comes from learning and doing the mistakes

And I feel hekili Is never for that option

If you’re just starting an alt and trying to gesr

Goof off

Whatever

But if you’re actually trying to learn I can’t recommend it

[shy pecan]

Yeah, it'll never be. I'm reading some of these conditions in the lua for Hekili and it just seems like a nightmare of an interpretation. So much room for error

[runic hinge]

Good thing I don’t wanna learn outlaw. Lmao gottem

[shy pecan]

You just know something's up when you see artifacts like this in their code:

[runic hinge]

Seems like a cool ability. People would really like a cd like that. It wouldn’t be divisive at alll I’m sure.

[shy pecan]

Just won't understand why people like an addon telling them every button they should press on their rotation. Isn't that kinda the point of playing DPS is to learn how to play it and then play it well?

[waxen oyster]

casuals are an interesting bunch

[plain moon]

Because they think it’s the new get rich quick scheme, only with parses instead

[tame tangle]

not everyone who plays wow plays it like that , for a lot it’s just a game they fuck around with and that lets them have fun

[thorn fjord]

Hekili is great on certain specs

I love it

Sucks for rogue but helped me with UHDK and Frost Mage

[shy pecan]

I'm just reading through this Hekili lua because I'm kinda interested in knowing how he attempted to port the APL over

For rogue, it just seems like a mess

[thorn fjord]

its straight booty cheeks for all 3 rogue specs

prio is all scuffed

[oak tangle]

I know a guy who does 60k dps with 475 ilvl on an arcane mage, I reckon hekili would do him wonders, I’ve looked at their logs and they cast arcane surge twice in 5 minutes, and one of those 2 times they cancel the cast

[shy pecan]

I'm trying to find the section where it follows the APL part. I see Whispyr's APL in the code as a .simc file, but not as a lua file. Haven't had much luck finding the implementation

[oak tangle]

So hekili has a place for some of the player base

In saying that, people that are genuinely interested in learning their spec and improving their dps are not those people hence it has no recommendation in here

[oak tangle]

It’s cause of the pooling helper, they mad about you cutting in on their territory, even though that is not the purpose of the pooling helper, some defs used it that way

[pure moth]

Lorrgs will show info. But for nymue you'd use it on opener. Then you save for add.

And wifi caught up and loaded all the responses already. Hah

[spice spire]

[desert inlet]

@gusty mirage

[runic hinge]

Oh we’re gaming

[gusty mirage]

[desert inlet]

[runic hinge]

Also instead of trying outlaw I think I’m gonna play ret

[gusty mirage]

I didn't even know they made a swedish fish one

actual game changer

what the heck

[runic hinge]

I bet it tastes red

[gusty mirage]

and sticks to your teeth

[desert inlet]

me trying swedish fish one first

[gusty mirage]

swedish fish unironically one of my fav candies

[desert inlet]

they're good

[gusty mirage]

makes me wonder why fish in sweden are red and gummy tho

@spice surge explain pls

[desert inlet]

idk weird place

drink is pretty good

[gusty mirage]

ghost low key slaps, idk why people aren't more hype about it

their mango flavor is

btw

[desert inlet]

not quite perfect swedish fish flavor but I wouldn't expect an energy drink to be

[spice surge]

The baltic sea isnt feeling very well

The fishermen are all jelly of other seas

[spice spire]

Boo

[thorn fjord]

My coworker was drinking one of those ghost drinks today

[runic hinge]

Did you tell them to man up and just do cocaine?

[thorn fjord]

He's a straight shooter

[spice surge]

Can i sweeten the deal for ya?

[spice spire]

Sure

[shy pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/brian-baumgartner-badumtss-the-office-kevin-joke-gif-15818642

[tame tangle]

the cherry limeade and swedish fish are my fave ghost is only energy drink i’ll buy at this point

[blazing jewel]

The strawberry margarita one is pretty good

[spice spire]

Ur pretty good babe

[balmy condor]

Cum

[runic hinge]

[spice spire]

[woeful meteor]

need to vibecheck first

[shy pecan]

[balmy condor]

One moment

@woeful meteor I think it checks out

[ebon notch]

Is logging as assa fucked since the nerfs/aug hooks being fixed?

[balmy condor]

shouldn't be

all the aug stuff is fixed so it's not stealing or giving damage

[past forum]

ashes sims like 3.2k lower for me than branch. i feel like i hear ppl often saying "the qol upgrade is worth the 1k dps loss". is it an outlier that it sims so much lower for me or is that actually what i should reasonably expect? i could link a sim for reference but mostly just curious

[balmy condor]

dropping that much mastery from branch causes your sim to lean heavy into mastery and it gets closer

but 2-3k is reasonable

[bright cipher]

there are still some less than desirable issues involving aug still https://i.imgur.com/hrb8FU3.png

but they aren't class specific

[past forum]

i can get it down below 2k if i recraft my gear but idk i think i'll just keep drawing 7s on water droplets and be okay

[keen spruce]

people just run ashes on like tindral fyrak cuz it's almost impossible to play stick correctly

and it can be super sketch in m+ sometimes in higher keys

so that 2k sim difference gets a lot smaller

if you're re-statting to run ashes

well maybe not a lot smaller

but a bit smaller

[spice surge]

Ye but theres a decently common conception that augs is by far the best dps class and logs are just borked (mostly stemming from max stream id imagine)

But idk, except the absorb thing there isnt really many large things being attributed incorrectly anymore

[woeful meteor]

having no clue watching max stream and just repeating what he says without understanding it

[bright cipher]

Yeah, augs aren't insane currently

[spice surge]

The issue was way worse at the start of the tier, which is where id imagine he and his guild looked into it

But theyve been stealthfixing stuff very often for it

So its not really the case anymore

[balmy condor]

I thought that was reddits job

[flint marsh]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/486284970806083584/1165033412827037806/image.png

[woeful meteor]

certainly a big group of there people are on reddit

[dark token]

I really prefer no aug keys

You can definitely feel the third DPS

Stuff dies a lot faster

It's not attribution things

[keen spruce]

the propoganda about AuG hooks and attribution and what not was about raid

they're definitely less dmg in keys

but you can get it close with a good aug comp

with like

spriest mage

or chiken

or something

[runic hinge]

Duck is close to chicken

[keen spruce]

that's a little racist

but okay

[runic hinge]

I didn’t say “all is fair that’s fowl” that would’ve been racist

[balmy condor]

I'm actually vegetarian except for everything considered fowl, fish, or hooved

[keen spruce]

you don't eat primates?

diets these days are weirdge

[thorn fjord]

They sell kangaroo meat at Wild Fork

[oak tangle]

yoooo who's eating my animals

are they authentic roadkill roo's?

[thorn fjord]

No clue

[quiet oar]

Aug hooks on Shield DMG

You need an Aug on Tindral or Fyrakk to get logs,

[bright cipher]

i find it interesting how shields can break stuff sometimes

[royal lantern]

the Revenge for us breaking shields

sorry

i stop

[quiet oar]

Nono

You got a Point

[bright cipher]

Some effects who trigger when you heal people or get healed with something for exemple, won't trigger if its used to heal an heal absorb

there are also some mitigation % effects, who won't mitigate damage done to shields, but only damage done to HP

[ebon notch]

hmm i think my sim wants haste

[limber lion]

Das crazy dood

Where branch

[ebon notch]

it didnt want it

which was weird

in the previous sim i did

ill add it into this one again

jk adding more haste made it more viable

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oc8PPrxNPuWDH7Vkw7jQA4

im surprised no ashes though

[subtle tundra]

fym surprised

assa likes haste and ashes fucks with your haste

its not like sub

[ebon notch]

yeah but big dam

and you only get the reduced haste after your cds end so

[subtle tundra]

it fucks your non cd kb

[ebon notch]

igy

[royal lantern]

? isnt the debuff gone by then

[subtle tundra]

dont you get the debuff at the end of the buff and it lasts a minute?

[ebon notch]

yes

[royal lantern]

wait yeha im a idiot(nothing new)

my sleep deprived head was like

"debuff is 1min, kb is 1min"

[subtle tundra]

forgiven

[ebon notch]

noob

[uneven summit]

Blue linen better than toxic now or? i see more and more blue linen doods

[royal lantern]

was always "better" in m+

[uneven summit]

when simming blue linen whats a realistic uptime to sim?

[rotund oak]

the default is 40% iirc

maybe 50%

[rotund oak]

not even 489 nick

and your back has no enchant

and for patchwreck we use wafting

[ebon notch]

was just for sims

havnet pulled a boss as assa yet

[rotund oak]

u gonna try sin on fyrakk?

or did u kill the bad dragon

[spice spire]

Nah cuz he’s a fake fan

[rotund oak]

fotm always memes hard 😄

u can expect a rank 1 sin parse on fyrakk next week

[ebon notch]

i havent killed yet

gonna play sub for the first kill

then we'll see

[rotund oak]

lord stealthi approves

[limber lion]

Pussy

[agile geode]

guys what are your thoughts about logs balancing in overrall dmg? i know that this current tier is very well balanced

but why we've get nerfed by 3%?

wasnt needed imho

and sub is rolling very high

is just talking im not complaying anything

im playing sin on tindral and i think it perform very well

[spice spire]

SPIT

[upbeat needle]

rage flask wont take me outta stealth right

[spice surge]

The random procs will not bring you out of stealth no

[upbeat needle]

kk thank you, i was just thinking about shourding the group and boop were all outta stealth xD

[spice surge]

Other people get taken out of shroud if it procs for them though

Its only stealth and prowl that doesnt break, not shroud for some reason

[ebon notch]

You do it then

👀

[regal cedar]

Is assassination in mplus really as bad as it shows on like archon and other sites? Or is it mainly just cause most are playing outlaw/sub?

[woeful meteor]

no

these Tierlist websites are just dumb

[regal cedar]

What would be the best place to get an idea as to what they are doing in dungeons? I assume wclogs? I come from starting the season as my forever main, feral, but at the start feral was just complete and utter horrible mplus dps. Trying to avoid alting assassination if it’s gonna be similar where you just don’t get invites

[vestal wren]

people just need to use this timeless tier list

[woeful meteor]

very true

[woeful meteor]

Think for m+ watching streams is generally easier, since not many people log keys and analyzing them is pretty annoying, but most people streaming sin keys have swapped to law at this point since sin cant consistently live in 30s. As for invites people are dumb look at tierlist and invite only what's labelled as a s-Tier Spec and people inviting checking spec and kicking you again probably depends on the keylvl your running.

[regal cedar]

Currently doing 27 as feral so I get that. Most of the time I get invited because they think I’m boomkin and just don’t realize it before the keys starts. I’d imagine which rogue spec would be much more forgiving as if people don’t even check for feral vs boomkin, it wouldn’t be til the very top end that I may start getting the shaft, and I’m okay with that. I was trying to find some sin streamers, but like you said, most have switched.

I just don’t want to get into keys on an alt and feel like feral felt like where I just was dragging down the key because of the damage difference (much better now)

[spice surge]

For the most part i'd say the expected spec of a rogue in keys is outlaw. The raid focused nerfs hit assa a bit too hard so its a bit behind in m+ now

Sub is fairly close to outlaw in terms of power but not very popular

[pseudo hamlet]

You can always check out the raider.io runs

[regal cedar]

Do you think it’s actually near the bottom in terms of damage, or more mid pack? I understand the tier lists are going to show them near the bottom just due to people playing outlaw and sub

[regal cedar]

Are there damage charts on it?

[pseudo hamlet]

Why would there be one? Damage isn't the most imporatant thing in M+ at such levels.

I mean, it's still VERY important, but there are also other things that need to be taken in consideration.

[regal cedar]

If I don’t play assassination, I’d probably play sub because I enjoy it, there are just so many cds to sub now

[spice surge]

Nah its definitely not near the bottom, its doing ok damage, but its also more "priority" damage rather than overall damage

Just like firemages, except not as strong'

[pseudo hamlet]

The only spec that has +30(and higher) key done from rogue is Outlaw.

[spice surge]

No?

[thorn fjord]

HE WAS ONCE A THUG FROM AROUND THE WAY

[woeful meteor]

all 3 have 30s HUH

[regal cedar]

I’m moreso trying to get a gauge on damage. I’m very confident in my ability to use my toolkit for defensives and cc/interrupts once I get the hang of it, so at this point I’m just trying to see where it’d fall damage-wise

[pseudo hamlet]

Just checked +30(and higher) M+ keys timed on raider.io didnt see any assa/sub

[regal cedar]

That’s good to hear!

[pseudo hamlet]

Ok, Zerocool only did +30 AD and that's all for Assa rogues

[woeful meteor]

oh look a 30 that's not zero as well

[pseudo hamlet]

And Lolae with BRH

Yeah just noticed, weird that they aren't shown in the overall statistics in r.io

[dark token]

Overall statistics is out of date or something it didn't update all patch

[pseudo hamlet]

That's true, but the point still stands - it seems that Outlaw is doing better in M+ compared to Assa/Sub.

[thorn fjord]

Well no shit

https://tenor.com/view/captain-obvious-thanks-yes-sir-gif-18484184

[dark token]

Anyway sin is actually decent in m+, you do good damage and have a very good prio dmg profile I just stopped playing it because it

1. was harder to live stuff than sub/outlaw which stack more vers and have better defensive talents
2. has bad target swap on some of the hardest bosses like WM thorns boss or brh last boss or everbloom last boss

[thorn fjord]

willing to bet there are double the amount of people playing OL in keys than sin/sub combined at high lvl

[dark token]

I think sin is viable until 29-30

[thorn fjord]

But what does that matter

[dark token]

It's also way more fun than OL/sub in keys

[ebon notch]

most people who are playing keys in this channel wont be at the level where they noticed the difference

[dark token]

I plan to try and get high io as sub and then use that for chiller key invites as sin if I feel like I plateau pushing

[ebon notch]

if they wanna play assa they wont suffer much

[thorn fjord]

im saying

https://tenor.com/view/paimon-genshin-impact-gif-3908335895994298600

[spice surge]

Ye but outlaw is cringe

[pseudo hamlet]

That's also true. I was just answering the question a guy wrote above

[ebon notch]

dont call other specs cringe

theyre all fun in their unique way

[thorn fjord]

I aint ever lied a day in my life broseph

[ebon notch]

respect

[thorn fjord]

Glad to see you back from pali purgotory

[ebon notch]

im gonna be playing all the melee specs this tier

[thorn fjord]

I was thinking mage for fated

but i'll prob end up just taking a break till WW

Finally hitting P3 on swift... I want my sweet release already

[regal cedar]

Thanks for the info all!

[pseudo hamlet]

Good luck mate! 😄

[dark token]

WW is guaranteed to be good in the WW expansion right

Might reroll

[thorn fjord]

Sound logic right there

[spice surge]

Gotta wait and see their hero talents

[dark token]

They need to fix the regular talent tree first

I worry hero talents means regular tree will get less dev time

When some specs like sub/ww still have clear improvements the base tree needs

[spice surge]

I mean the hero talent tree is something where you get all the nodes except the choice nodes, so theres way less work to be done on the actual "tree" of it

aka the positions

[slow needle]

This may be me spreading disinformation but I have been told by others that it was said in an interview that there were no current plans to rework any spec going into WW.

Realz was very clear on not calling the rogue stuff this patch a rework though and instead a 'talent refresh' so it may just be people hearing precisely used language and running with it to mean there won't be any changes.

[royal lantern]

man, who cares really how they call it lol

they changed talents, it did some bigger stuff in gameplay and performance

[gusty mirage]

I like potatoes

[vestal wren]

the difference between rebalancing and rework is mostly in terminology and depends on the amount of changes

if you look at the extend of changes, esp. assassiantion did get a rework

for subtlety/outlaw you can argue its more a in between given the overall smaller amount of changes

[thorn fjord]

Still kind of the same concepts for all 3 specs

Just different prio

and SLIGHTLY diff interactions

But i can see how it wasnt a "Rework"

[runic hinge]

Prio is make your KB good and everything else is whatever

[thorn fjord]

The class fantasy is still the same

[shy pecan]

Same

[thorn fjord]

imo

I like turtles

[vestal wren]

as tryan mentioned, its kinda whatever how you call it

[royal lantern]

honorable 🇩🇪

[dark crag]

M+ is the worst, only deranged people take 3 days off to play keys from dawn till dusk when a new season starts

[rotund oak]

oily hot and salty

[dark token]

People do this not for m+ but for raid btw

It's not pushing keys for io it's doing 20s to be max geared week 1

[dark crag]

yes

that's why it's the worst

[subtle tundra]

those people arent the deranged ones

the actual deranged ones are those playing the whole season 5 days a week 10 hours a day

like a job

[dull cloak]

deranged ones are people doing that but not even top 50 guild

[earnest remnant]

damn calling me out like that

[woeful meteor]

next Tier again

[ebon notch]

You aren’t alone this time

[fallen forge]

damn people cant just have fun anymore (i am coping bc i am dogshit at the game)

[cedar yew]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[spice spire]

Ur deranged

[ebon notch]

Says you

[spice spire]

Wdym mister fotm

[ebon notch]

Wdym Wdym

[thorn fjord]

whats the fotm this month?

[ebon notch]

I got rank 1 outlaw heroic today

[spice spire]

Dn

[ebon notch]

Heroic logs totally matter

Right guys

[spice spire]

Real

[ebon notch]

All star points heroic poggers??

[spice spire]

Fotm ft 9.1

[ebon notch]

What happened in 9.1

[spice spire]

You were trying to get #1 heroic logs

But Cev cucked you hard

[ebon notch]

It was for the best

He’s the only reason I tried so hard

I learned to read logs trying to beat him

[spice spire]

I know

[ebon notch]

Made me the player I am today

[spice spire]

Growth happens when you find a wall to jump

If it were easy you’d still be (more of) a shitter

[ebon notch]

@limber lion UwU

[dark token]

love keys

[runic hinge]

Queue simulator

[left berry]

Doing better than my arms warrior :)))))))

[lusty mortar]

Ist jemand hier der sich gut mit Assa Schurke auskennt ? Brauche hilfe 😄

[royal lantern]

no UwU allowed

[runic hinge]

@balmy condor

[royal lantern]

wasn los

und das ist trozdem n englischer discord

[balmy condor]

Deutsche fickser smh

Wer isn schonmal Deutsch

[gray hazel]

What WA/addon is this?

How high were you applying for?

I’ve noticed a lot of assassination avoidance this week with 26+

[royal lantern]

how high are you for playing m+

[dark token]

im applying for 3 28s, and 3 29s and 2 30s

outlaw rogues stealing my groups

[gray hazel]

Damn, that’s my luck for 27s

[gray hazel]

Like my RIO?

[royal lantern]

no

[spice surge]

You sure its not spriest or mages stealing em

[dark token]

Them too

[spice surge]

or even worse

Boomkins

[dark token]

Also rets

At least DHs have died off a bit because of VDh domination

[gray hazel]

Rets are pretty nutty with the legendary

[thorn fjord]

God i hated Eonar

[spice surge]

Appreciate the read, but bad words 🚫

[royal lantern]

r word is not cool, even on screenshots

[static glacier]

Ah yeah mb

Don’t use that language anymore

[thorn fjord]

Is there a worse boss than Eonar since then?

[royal lantern]

happens

[static glacier]

Nelth is worse imo

Weak aura boss smh

[thorn fjord]

noooooo way

Nelth > Bizzaro tower defense

the wa stuff did kinda suck but id take that for sure

[static glacier]

Even if it was afk trash waves

Atleast it didn’t feel like we’re progging against weak auras

[royal lantern]

ye

eonar was annyoing

but nothing more, this private aura mess ist just stupid as hell

[thorn fjord]

outside of it being a resource hog for some i dont think it was THAT bad

and as rogues we always went 5 😛

[royal lantern]

ye, eonar was really just annoying, not even hard cus it was a early boss, so its kinda w/e

[thorn fjord]

the achievment was kinda cool

Had to find the hidden orbs

Im almost 2 shotting players with BTE lol this is kinda funny

[distant ridge]

2x bsl or toxic setup for m+?

[quiet oar]

[balmy condor]

both fine, bsl slightly more overall

[distant ridge]

tyy

[thorn fjord]

you fine @balmy condor 😉

[thorn fjord]

Ich habe meinen Toaster-Strudel verlegt

[balmy condor]

[quiet oar]

????

What the fuck is a Toaster Studel

[quiet oar]

No way

This tastes good

[runic hinge]

It’s pretty good

[thorn fjord]

Yeah theyre pretty good

[quiet oar]

I dont trsut American Tastebuds

I need someone from Europe to confirm

In best case german

[runic hinge]

They were definitely good when I was a kid

[thorn fjord]

I'm Cuban

Far superior to both

[quiet oar]

Dont you live in america

now

[thorn fjord]

Miami doesnt count 100%

[quiet oar]

It does

[thorn fjord]

Its like 40% American

[quiet oar]

becasue @blazing jewel is american

[thorn fjord]

He's from the mid west though

[quiet oar]

he is the miami boi

[thorn fjord]

He became the Miami boi

Trust tho Toaster Strudels are legit lol

great stoner food

[quiet oar]

Ok arent you just fucking hungry stoned

And eat whatever you can get

[thorn fjord]

naaaaah

[marble hemlock]

you lost me here

german tastebuds are cursed

[quiet oar]

Are they

in terms of bakery?

[marble hemlock]

hmmmm

fair~ish point

although id still go with

french or danish people instead

[quiet oar]

Like our bread and stuff is good

[marble hemlock]

when it comes to pastries

[quiet oar]

Ok

But french is kinda out

i know zac

[marble hemlock]

but ye i think

[balmy condor]

and so is danish

[marble hemlock]

some of the frozen stuff can be really good

[quiet oar]

Ye it can be

[marble hemlock]

i.e. the frozen coppenrath & wiese cakes are pretty damn good

[quiet oar]

But no way a cinnamon roll

is good

[balmy condor]

what

[marble hemlock]

ye idk

im used to like

[runic hinge]

They have multiple flavors

[marble hemlock]

cinnamon rolls not being hot

[balmy condor]

no shot you just said a cinnamon roll is bad

[marble hemlock]

so idk how theyd be hot

[quiet oar]

Ye but those cakes unfreeze naturally

[marble hemlock]

ye

[quiet oar]

And not an air fryer

[marble hemlock]

but theres also some apfelstrudel stuff for example

[runic hinge]

There’s more than just cinnamon roll toaster strudel

[marble hemlock]

thats microwave or air fryer

that are really good

[quiet oar]

Not a fan of those

tbh

[marble hemlock]

at the end of the day its just a matter of personal taste. but when it comes to the frozen stuff, sometimes it actually tastes better, at half the price. just gotta realize that youre likely paying for it being a lot less healthy then if it was freshly made, but thats just food in general

[balmy condor]

pop tarts/toaster strudels hold a place in american psyche because it's cheap stuff people had in their childhood

but if you give it to someone who didn't grow up with them

[quiet oar]

Ye i think thats the case

[balmy condor]

it's just american cheap mass produced pastry #15435

[slate crown]

do you like sugar butter flakes wrapped around sugar fruity paste topped with sugar sugar paste?

if so toaster strudels are for you

[marble hemlock]

idk how easily accessible bakeries are in the US

to get this stuff fresh

im definitely mad that the bakery that was 2 stories down had to close

or rather, the space was bought out by a kebap shop

so no more mohnschnecken for me

[quiet oar]

Mohnschnecken are so good

Käsebrötchen are also udnerrated

[thorn fjord]

Y'all never had a Cuban Pastellito or Croquetta?

We have a ton of Bakeries down here @marble hemlock but they're mostly hispanic or jamaican bakeries

[marble hemlock]

fair

[lethal heart]

@marble hemlock

[marble hemlock]

[gusty mirage]

@lethal heart where cake????

[grizzled jay]

hello

[runic hinge]

Hello

[balmy condor]

hello

[thorn fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/adele-hello-hello-its-me-gif-4808927

[grizzled jay]

when did you get purple whispyr

[balmy condor]

uh

maybe like a year ago

[grizzled jay]

nice

[spiral basalt]

Hey y’all, coming back to rogue, specifically assassination after a while and am really excited to learn all the new changes. Reading the wowhead, do you really see mobs “pop” due to sudden demise? Seeing low health mobs all just die sounds awesome, but wondering if it really does that around the 20 key level or if it’s more for the bleed amp.

[woeful meteor]

bleed amp

[gusty mirage]

they still pop

and it's satisfying as FUCK

[gilded oasis]

eh

[gusty mirage]

no one asked you bonerspike lover

[gilded oasis]

actually true

story of my life

[gusty mirage]

I miss old Zar, who used to bully back

[gilded oasis]

long day

[gusty mirage]

hope your night is better friend

[woeful meteor]

well bonespike + demise has mobs dying from a 100% cause the dot is infinite have you thought about that

[gilded oasis]

idk if it works that way boss

[woeful meteor]

it should

[gilded oasis]

no one plays bonerspiker

[woeful meteor]

spec fixed

[gusty mirage]

[gilded oasis]

ty

[gusty mirage]

hurry someone tag whispyr

[woeful meteor]

think realz said how how many seconds of spike demise counts when rework was new

[royal lantern]

i have 1L choccy milk

its a good night

[woeful meteor]

I played Keys today and enjoyed it, I've changed

[gilded oasis]

I miss keys

[royal lantern]

you guys used to be cool

[royal lantern]

you need some hobbys

[runic hinge]

Imma repost that a lot

[gusty mirage]

no we didn't

[gilded oasis]

wh asked

[woeful meteor]

doing everbloom with double mindcontrol def falls into those pictures

[gilded oasis]

well that got fixed

[royal lantern]

doing m+ iss like playing league, its bad for your mental health and you tell yourself all the time "I HAVE FUN" while punching holes in your desk

[gilded oasis]

except I actually have fun in keys that Im not pugging

[dark token]

where is this mythical "premade"

[gilded oasis]

I also have fun playing

[gilded oasis]

Idk havent had one in 3 tiers

thats why Im sad

[dark token]

had one s1 but s2 was bad enough 3/5ths quit

[royal lantern]

you play wow AND league, ofc you dont

thats the biggest red flag in the universe

[gilded oasis]

I only get invited to m+ to gear people's shitty alts or cause they want to play with my bf

[woeful meteor]

this comp goes crazy

[spiral basalt]

I’ll take it! Haha sounds fun thanks

[gilded oasis]

naw havent logged into league for years actually. and I never eally played much

I unironically like hots tho

[dark token]

outlaw

[woeful meteor]

dont like current sub in m+ and sin is 2 much effort/ to squishy

cant 2 man soak in rise without cloak

[dark token]

sin is rly fun and sub is alright with the brew build

[dark token]

soak what

[woeful meteor]

played brew still felt like ass

[dark token]

tyr?

[woeful meteor]

ye

[dark token]

ye sin is a bit squish

[royal lantern]

hots is based cus it doesnt have the shity league ranked culture

[woeful meteor]

why 5 man soak when eva + feint does it

[royal lantern]

sin is not squishy

outlaw/sub are just broken in their deffensive kit

outlaw should not reduce evasion cd when evasion is a good CD with elusivness now lmao

its so frking stupid that this is a thing at all

[dark token]

they also randomly have 5% stam

it used to be 10 even

[woeful meteor]

dont get why they turned laws 2 best pvp talents into pve talents

[royal lantern]

like, how fucking busted must a deffensive kit be that you look at assa which has the basic rogue deffensive kit

and say "this is squishy compared to the others"

its fucking ROGUE

[woeful meteor]

I guess the pvp version of stam was even more op, but restless blades defensives are so dumb

also my 46% vers that still sim highest on law kinda help

[dark token]

honestly assa is not squishy against anything that feint works on

its just key design making elusive mandatory

rly dumb

[royal lantern]

ofc assa is not squishy, its rogue and the new elusivness is strong af now

its just

sub/outlaw have such desing flaws that elusivness becomes broken as hell on them

[woeful meteor]

next season sin redemption

[royal lantern]

with the cdr shit

[gilded oasis]

naw anytime sin is slightly above average we get nerfs and the other 2 specs just chill

[woeful meteor]

fatebound to a bright future in tww as well

[dark token]

ye this is also blizzard script

because assa is incredibly easy to play compared to other 2

so whenever its op all the casuals notice a lot more in HC raids

[royal lantern]

stop bringing up EASY HARD bullshit

jesus fucking christ

[dark token]

its true tho they balance for HC and +20

if something is op in that bracket it gets nerfed

even if its not op in high keys or top end mythic or w/e

[royal lantern]

soviet not jumping from allright takes too the most cooked shit possible in 3 seconds challange (impossible)

[dark token]

i mean i dont think its that cooked to think devs balance things for the higher playerbase bracket (generally)

unless there is some sort of pro bracket like league

[distant ridge]

is it good to craft weapons on a fresh rogue?

or just be patient

[gilded oasis]

yeah but easier/harder is subjective

[dark token]

not really, sin performs better relative to other specs the lower % parse you get

indicating its easy to do ok on

[royal lantern]

we have so many sparks now, sure, make a MH dagger

MH is the biggesst upgrade slot in the game, and its a big boost until you get a higher ilvl one from mythic raids/shit+ vault or get lucky with nick of time

[distant ridge]

ye you are right, so at least for MH , its a good choice

[gilded oasis]

what's a nick of time? sounds cool

[royal lantern]

idk, most people never saw one

took me 53 too see it afterall

[gilded oasis]

ill get one in vault when the tier is over, cant wait

[royal lantern]

i remember SL

i NEVER saw the sylvanas dagger

like, not a single time

[gilded oasis]

oof

[royal lantern]

did it every week on normal and heroic

cleared mythic at wr 600 something+ reclears

not a single drop

[gilded oasis]

we got fairly lucky on that in our tier for our rogues

[royal lantern]

then fated season

also never dropped, so bought with dinar

the first drop i saw was 3 weeks before DF launch

[gilded oasis]

that stinks

[royal lantern]

mate

look at blizzard balance in general

they dont balance around shit

90% of the time they are clueless as hell

[quiet oar]

I would probsbly quit

[royal lantern]

like, 1 guy does something and 2 other guys do the extreme opposite

[dark token]

i think they try but not super hard

[royal lantern]

just look at DF launch

"we remove priest knockback because there is too much aoe CC in the game"

and then 1 week later

"shaman has an addtional aoe cc now, evoker has 3 aoe cc's"

and ye, rogue got one aswell

but the priest knockback? no no no, that MUST be removed

too much aoe cc in the game afterall

[quiet oar]

Plus

Heal priest still has no Kick

[royal lantern]

ye that aswell

[quiet oar]

And shadows is 45

[royal lantern]

every single class in the game can interupt except priest, because "there is too much cc in the game" WHILE ADDING MORE CC

its just

[gilded oasis]

idk man makes perfect sense to me

[royal lantern]

there is no mythical "spec is "hard" or "spec is easy" and thats why we make them stronger/weaker"

its litearlly just reactions to a spec beeing higher then what they think is ok RIGHT NOW, but the "this is ok" bar just changes every 2 weeks anyway, while also ignoring 100000outside factors

[gilded oasis]

preach

[storm belfry]

@keen spruce did you just do a BRH

[gilded oasis]

are you duck hunting?

[storm belfry]

Watching a couple streams and I think I spotted shmeep in the wild on live

[royal lantern]

thats how you end up with assa beeing strong af for 2-3 weeks, then getting nerfs, its ok now, they nerf again for ssome reason and ignore other things at the same level and then buff other stuff beyond the OG dmg that they deemed nerf worthy in the first place

thats actually the mindblowing thing for me

nerfing something cus you think its too strong? sure, thats how balance works

[dark token]

i mean i think last assa nerf was unnecessary ye

[royal lantern]

but then buffing other things BEYOND the OG "thats too strong" level and ALSO ignoring the thing that was nerfed in the first place? what the fuck?

and that happend 2x this expansion now

[distant ridge]

E.g retris had bad st? buff Wake of ashes like HUH

[royal lantern]

ye, the ret thing is 1 of those examples

like, ret is 1 of the most auto pilot specs in the game

and sometimes they are just like

"well, lets giga buff it for no real reason"

they dont give a fuck how "easy" or "hard" it is

[lethal heart]

wdym on discord i invited you

[gusty mirage]

new cake tho

[bronze pike]

They shouldn’t tho

Buffing spec based on spec difficulty is gigA cringe

[royal lantern]

it is ye

[bronze pike]

And is a very very very slippery slope to get into

[royal lantern]

like, why play somethign else then the "difficult" specs then

[bronze pike]

Personal preference

Bm is gigA op for awhile but it’s still dogshit

[royal lantern]

espacialy when "difficult" spec in wow just translates into "its a personal thing anyway, and you can still play it really good quiet fast by just following a priority list that turns into muscle memory in 1-2 weeks of playing it"

[bronze pike]

Fotmers get the boot, they’re their own breed of stupid

[royal lantern]

wow difficulty is not the classes/specs, its the encounters

[bronze pike]

Hence why rogue stopped being fotmer before sin got unfairly nerfed

[royal lantern]

cake??

[bronze pike]

It’s “to hard”

Anywho, as a ret main. Nerf ret

Get these fotmer axe stealers away from my spec

[royal lantern]

ret buff was weird anyway

didnt fix any problems

just "here is big numbers, stop complaining"

[keen spruce]

yeah are u watching layria?

[bronze pike]

Right on the nose

There is like 4 different things to buff for cleave st

[royal lantern]

and suprise suprise, all the brainlets that dont like gameplay and just like big numbers stop complaining cus now there is "no problem" 🙂

[bronze pike]

And they buff the one thing that’s arguably the strongest gcd button in the game

[waxen oyster]

i definitely feel like i see way less rogues

than pre nerf sin

despite sub and outlaw are both still very good

[royal lantern]

cus rogue is not that much ahead anymore

the FotM andys jumped shark fast

[waxen oyster]

i think i see more dps dks than rogues

[bronze pike]

^

[waxen oyster]

despite all the people i hang around call dps dk a bench class

[royal lantern]

cus nobody plays rogue

[bronze pike]

Lego axe syndrom

[royal lantern]

thats the big thing in the first place

[bronze pike]

Dk and warrior stonks up for lego axe

Ret stonks always high cause it’s boomer rp Andy spec

[waxen oyster]

i dont understand the lego axe hype

[royal lantern]

2nd or 3rd most unpopular class in the game + FotM andys saw nerfs and instantly ran away and went to the other FotM stuff-> rogue numbers are like ussual, maybe SLIGHTLY higher

[waxen oyster]

if your spec is beans

a lego only bumps it to average

from beans

[bronze pike]

Not anymore

[waxen oyster]

dps dk is still not great

imho

[bronze pike]

Took a lot of buffs to ret dk and lego

But ya

[storm belfry]

Yes

As a Druid I peep other Druids streams

[bronze pike]

Come season4 I see ret and blood being meta on damage department

[waxen oyster]

idk

and obv if vdh stonks go down

havoc stonks go up

[bronze pike]

Pre buff ret with lego was already strong af

[keen spruce]

i called her wowgrandma

[storm belfry]

I saw lmao

[waxen oyster]

yeah but i think objectively

sub and outlaw are stronger than both dps dk specs

by a margin

[calm trail]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[royal lantern]

ye, but nobody plays rogue

its a unpopular class

[waxen oyster]

its definitely interesting as to why

[royal lantern]

like, REALLY unpopular

[waxen oyster]

but most of the playerbase is casual asf

so me talking people calling dk dps being the equivalent to riding the bench

is from a higher ce guild pov

ig

[royal lantern]

most people are really boring, they just want to be big guy in big armor

like, nothing bad against that, i can see why people like it, but "guy in armor with big weapon" is always popular

"guy that is fighing with dirty tricks" isnt really

combine that with the fact that rogue is notorious for having the worst leveling experience, giving most people a really really bad first impression

and in general was always talent hungry

so you make a rogue, play to lvl20, pick some wrong talents and just think "the fuck is this shit"

[waxen oyster]

yeah i never considered although assassin archetype in rpgs is ok in popularity

[royal lantern]

thats how most interact witht he class

[waxen oyster]

but most games the assassin archetype is a glass cannon

wouldnt call outlaw glass though

[royal lantern]

like, idk if you remember HOW bad rogue leveling was for a long time, during legion times you didnt had any aoe ability until like the mid 60s lol

and assa got its energy skills/talents REALLY fucking late

[waxen oyster]

legion leveling i just had the archimonde class trinket

and pressed mfd run through to oneshot 95% of things

to max

ofc then you could have logged onto a ww

and have 100% fof parry to level with

[slate crown]

I've mained rogue since first starting wow in 2004, and was my first real fantasy type RPG I played that had class selection. It's always struck me as wild to think that this is true, but it is true. Like I always think everyone wants to be a rogue and it's strange to me to not want to have that identity, and that anyone picking warrior or mage architypes were doing so reluctantly.

[spice surge]

Blood already does ludicrous damage in keys

[waxen oyster]

i mean to me, its always been assasin>mage>warrior archetypes

in rpgs

[slate crown]

And I guess that's why we're in this discord talking about this 😛

[waxen oyster]

i’ve never liked warrior archetypes in wow unless they were splashed

with magic influence of some type

[royal lantern]

i mean, idk really

if wow had a spellblade class

i would play that

[slate crown]

Same

[royal lantern]

cus thats my personal absolute #1

[slate crown]

That's alwasy been a curiosity to me as well

[royal lantern]

in any rpg its like, spellblade>rogue>mage>the rest

[spice surge]

Ye and in wow were either the tankiest dps or atleast among the tankiest

[royal lantern]

but there are like 2-3 rpgs that have good spellblade classes

[spice surge]

Depending on the situation

[slate crown]

Is there a good rpg that gets the spellblade stuff right?

I tried red mage in FFXIV and it really doesn't get it right I don't think

[royal lantern]

dragons dogma did it great

can make a cool spellblade in elden ring tbh

red mage in ff14 is 0 spellblade

[slate crown]

also ffxiv combat is weird and doesn't really convey the same stuff I want to with wow etc etc

[royal lantern]

its a full caster

[slate crown]

yeah

[royal lantern]

like, so many people say red mage is a "melee/ranged hybrid"

when it isnt at all lol

its 99% ranged

[slate crown]

It's melee for like

3 attacks

then back to casting

[royal lantern]

its just that it has 1 burst combo which is"you dash in, do a melee attack, backflip out and then proceed casting"

and its a big cd

not something you do all the time

[slate crown]

I'll have to look at dragons dogma tho, it's always been an interest to me

[royal lantern]

red mage is casting 99% of the fight

[bronze pike]

Yep

Only thing hold blood back is the obvious vdh silence sigil

[waxen oyster]

although tbh i wonder if warrior preference in rpgs amongst playerbases

has anything to do with warrior archetypes typically are more tanky

passively

there are games wizards and assassins have almost nonexistent defense values

as a tradeoff for high offense stats

[dark token]

u know m+ is dead when ur doing this after not playing for a couple months

[fallow quartz]

hello fellow sin rouges, i was just wondering what you guys have your haste at for M+?

[runic hinge]

69%

[soft shale]

3%

[dark token]

i prefer 42.0%

[balmy condor]

is it bigger than a breadbasket

[humble crane]

I know this is probably a really stupid question, so sorry in advance. But what causes assass to sim so low?

[balmy condor]

it doing less damage in a simulated vacuum than the other specs you're comparing to

[humble crane]

Yeah, it sims for 190k for me where as my sub sims for 235k

[balmy condor]

in single target?

that's a crazy swing

[humble crane]

yeah

[balmy condor]

do you just not have haste on anything

[humble crane]

my haste is pretty low

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nLV7F87hBP1jHiF7waignB

This is if I recraft my gear and use different embells as assass. Where as for sub atm I sims for 233k

[balmy condor]

yeh but like a swing like that has gotta be like no corrupting pot no ashes/branch, 75% vers or some shit

aight give me a min

[humble crane]

Thanks Whispyr.

[arctic hare]

What in the world, you DO have the branch

I am, concerned

[balmy condor]

yeh it's just the rest of the sim is cooked

[humble crane]

I swapped the recrafts to haste/mast to test and swapped off tepid vers flask, but still the gaps pretty big

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/87vVZXWa6nF1pesN1QnTui

[balmy condor]

yeh

cooked

[earnest remnant]

[balmy condor]

I'm 4 sims deep atm

one more and should be good

[humble crane]

awesome, appreciate it

[waxen oyster]

its the mog

dps loss

[humble crane]

hurtful

[waxen oyster]

its better with the set chest and tab of brilliance

[balmy condor]

[humble crane]

im in an awkies spot because our rogue quit on tindral prog and ive got this alt. Ive not really played sub much and I think id perform better as assass - but the difference is too large. So not sure what to do, just stick with sub and practice a bit or swap to assass

[waxen oyster]

i mean

if you're in charge of boss damage sin is fine

[balmy condor]

no other reason to play rogue in general tbh

[humble crane]

id be swapping off feral to rogue so that would make sense

[waxen oyster]

true

i played my dh alt for a bit and its hilarious after 3 nerfs

how much more aoe that class does

[balmy condor]

like assa and sub are both boss damage monsters, sub just doesn't have ramp time and is like 5% better on everything

otherwise kinda who cares

[waxen oyster]

ima be real