assassination

[drifting cloud]

just type omni in the search

[shy pecan]

There should be a stacking option for bolstering. Just search for it in Plater.

[arctic hare]

Wait, is the big numbers part of Whispyr's plater?

[drifting cloud]

probably yeah

omni would be the smaller one

[arctic hare]

I....

🤦‍♂️

I've been using OmniCD's this whole time and couldn't see shit lmao

[earnest remnant]

Omnicd and omnicc isn’t the same thing fwiw

[gilded oasis]

And omnibar

[runic hinge]

[shy pecan]

What's Omnibar?

[balmy condor]

@abstract leaf’s bar

[shy pecan]

[balmy condor]

It’s a big metal pipe he beats us with when we die to fire beams

[shy pecan]

Oh

[runic hinge]

Throughly used then

[frozen iris]

Dumb question but sin and sub get access to the exact same gear right? For example trinkets

[earnest remnant]

All three specs gets the same trinkets

It’s only weapons that changes with outlaw

[frozen iris]

Okay thanks , i was 99% sure but just wanted to doublecheck

[winged sun]

Outlaw uses different trinkets

[woeful meteor]

Omnicd but for your enemies cds in pvp

[winged sun]

We dont like ashes/branch as outlaw on all situations

[winged sun]

^

[runic hinge]

They use different trinkets but they all drop the same

[winged sun]

O right misread

[sonic zinc]

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

Long In-depth explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:
https://youtu.be/DoZDPFk_Zog
The TLDW (I understand, it's LONG):

• Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
• This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths
• You still have vanish and in 10.2, shadow dance, which gives you MANY options to get your stealth effects
• This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years

[storm hedge]

I've been playing assa for 2 months. I've been playing sub for 3 days. I already have 10k more dps on dummy with subtlety where did assa dps go

[quiet oar]

I mean to do DMG on Sin you need PI

to be competetive with sub

[storm forum]

Do we at least do more damage in execute than sub?

[bright turret]

you arent doing execute damage to a dummy typically

sub is generally about 5% more boss damage over a non smolderon fight

[royal lantern]

turns out

when you double nerf a spec with the 2nd nerf beeing very VERY dumb and not needed

an at the same time ignore the other spec doing the same dmg

it will pull ahead

2x in the same Expansion

[waxen oyster]

its because no one played sub

[lime crypt]

Because it's shit spec design wise

[waxen oyster]

ehh better than its s2 version

[lime crypt]

How about make it fun first and then balance later

[royal lantern]

DF sub is just cursed

[waxen oyster]

sin is always easier to get into so it draws more players if performance is the same

[lime crypt]

I heard people lost their shit when they added some dust mechanic

[waxen oyster]

its not even bad

[lime crypt]

I hated every day when I played sub in s2

[royal lantern]

season2 sub was legit 1 of the easiest specs in the game man

[waxen oyster]

its a slight improvement over sl sub

but thats not saying much

[lime crypt]

Like just delete the spec or make it very pvp oriented

[waxen oyster]

it was outlaw

with daggers

thats s2 sub

[lime crypt]

That's not true

[waxen oyster]

you had like 0 downtime as s2 sub

and mashed gloomblade

[lime crypt]

Atleast in m+ it's wasnt

You had Shuriken storm into black powder

And you just tracked ur dance for technique

[waxen oyster]

yeah ngl that was beyond brain afk

i could play s2 sub half afk

[royal lantern]

not really

sub is just so giga cursed for 2 expansions now that nobody wants to play it

and cus nobody plays it they always either giga buff it or ignore balance problems

and then everypne plays it cus its so far ahead

[lime crypt]

Outlaw in s2 was okay, but they overdesigned it so much rn that it's just headache. Not to mentioned the amount of bugs it has

[waxen oyster]

idk i didnt like s1 sin either

felt like you had a dozen mini cds

[royal lantern]

like, sub is just sooo cursed for ages now

[waxen oyster]

that did little to nothing

[waxen oyster]

tbh if sin and sub are equal why play sub

the spec that loses more due to forced downtime

[royal lantern]

mate

did you really just bring up downtime

aka the "i have no clue about the specs" argument?

[waxen oyster]

i mean historically the last 2 expansions they've made sub a cdr spec

sin typically suffers less

whoever designed kyrian sub in sl s3 for example

can eat ass

[royal lantern]

if you think "you lose 95% of your dmg instead of 100% cus rupture and garrote tickle a bit" is a huge draw to a spec

idk man

thats not how the game works

espacialy when rn assa wants chain envenoms and amp poison is a thing

you know, stuff that wants you to stay on the boss

[waxen oyster]

during downtime its still not as bad as during an outlaw AR

which might be more of an issue with ar is up all the time

[royal lantern]

i just dont know why people bring up downtime all the time

lime

nobody says "oh arms suffers less from downtime then fury cus it has some bleeds!!"

[waxen oyster]

i mean sin definitely is the easiest spec to get into

if you dont play rogue really

[royal lantern]

also no

thats just such a stupid sentence

[waxen oyster]

then why does it get the highest popularity

on average

[royal lantern]

when all that stuff in wow is personal based

[royal lantern]

?????????

thats outlaw

[waxen oyster]

only when outlaw is tuned well

[royal lantern]

like bruh, am i talking to a brickwall rn

[waxen oyster]

as soon as outlaw is perceived the "weakest" you watch the playerbase noodle

[royal lantern]

what game are you playing where assa has the highest playerbase on average

meabwhile i killed sark last tier

and there where 40other assa kills

[waxen oyster]

that was a sub tier

[royal lantern]

[royal lantern]

you mean like the last 3tiers before that aswell?

[waxen oyster]

im talking tiers that arent heavily favored towards one spec

vault was split between outlaw and sub until late farm

fated if you count that was an outlaw season

sepulcher, sub tier until outlaw buffs

sanctum was even

[royal lantern]

sanctum was not even

[waxen oyster]

all 3 were good

[royal lantern]

ye, but assa was the worst and sub/outlaw where better in all regards

again

like, sure, dagger made all 3 specs OP

but still the worst out of them

im just trying to grasp what game you play where assa is "on average the spec most people play"

when all the raidtiers in the last few years show the opposite

and m+ was outlaw dominated

[waxen oyster]

sanctum had way less outlaw parses

than the other two

[drifting cloud]

do you just gaslight yourself into selective memory tryan or

[earnest remnant]

Generally speaking if sub/assa is tuned around the same, people tend to lean more towards assa

[waxen oyster]

then castle nathria entire rogue class shared a spot in the dumpster with non dk melee for early on in the tier

until they reworked necro and venthyr

[earnest remnant]

buffed assa by 52%

kinda helped

[waxen oyster]

bonespike bugs

on last 2

[royal lantern]

sometimes

[drifting cloud]

I mean maybe its just a personal view, but I dont judge a tier how it looks last 2 weeks before new raid

but more of when I cleared +1-2 months after it

like who cares what the strongest rogue spec will be once they turn fyrakk into a loot pinata

but like stealthi said, if sub and assa are even people will prefer assa, you saw how skewed that was first 3 weeks of the raid

even tho sub wasnt even bad, but you just also got pi as assa

[orchid pewter]

pi + aug bugs not fixed boosted ass a lot

[drifting cloud]

if anything historically sub is definetly underplayed for when it was decent in raids, but I guess thats not that unusual for a 3 dps spec class

[waxen oyster]

also if they're technically equal

[drifting cloud]

its similiar to arcane mage, but that class also has frost which is just a spec that people ride or die with aswell

[waxen oyster]

assa has execute which gives it pts

early into a tier

[drifting cloud]

thats more of a boss per boss basis thing, and mostly endbosses anyways

execute on larodar doesnt mean anything

[waxen oyster]

true

usually has value on endbosses

[earnest remnant]

only time execute matters is if its hard phasing and not just timer based

[waxen oyster]

dont you get more value though

like first 2 resets

[drifting cloud]

sure, assuming balance would be equal at the start

but that is very rarely the c ase aswell

[earnest remnant]

if the boss does not hard phase, all dmg to the boss matters at all phases

like on Fyrakk all boss dmg matters after p2 begins

Tindral the entire time

etc

[waxen oyster]

yeah

[drifting cloud]

hey 70 to 0 still better than 100 to 0!

[earnest remnant]

it is yeh

[drifting cloud]

but its just a weird boss where he just throws a wipe mech at you every 15s at the end

[waxen oyster]

i guess some people will argue late damage has the factor

of higher chance of more dead people

[drifting cloud]

so it doesnt matter thaaat much, especially with how the average kill timer is there

when hes just afk after the 4th roar, and you should kill him before next set of fires

and similiar on tindral, not much happens between 6:40-7:10 give or take so kinda doesnt matter if your kill timer is 6:41 or 7:05

[waxen oyster]

i do feel there is a bit of community perception due to watching race people spike on meters

due to full cds lust and aug

[royal lantern]

"a bit"

[waxen oyster]

it looks more flashy to the viewer

than something like outlaw's flatline

[drifting cloud]

well yeah but if they dont know better than to look at details

had to deal with aug for too long now you might aswell raid without it

[waxen oyster]

average viewer probably doesnt

i feel aug has created so many issues with the game idk

its like opening pandoras box

[whole pilot]

Feel like every class other than aug believes that

[drifting cloud]

it has, its been neutered a bit but community still overblows it

atleast in raid

[waxen oyster]

lol

kind of like how m+ andys still thought aug was mandatory for non defensive reasons in their keys until streamers started doing no aug runs

[drifting cloud]

yeah but then the same problem goes reverse once you look at world highest keys

becomes a survivability check not a dps one so aug is the main char again

esp in this season where the scaling seems off, like people were running what 22+ at 450 ilvl, basically last season ilvl

[green gull]

Hello! Here is the log of my friend Spymann, he does not know why he makes these dps low, I want to help him understand what he is doing wrong, stat? gameplay? Thanks for your help! : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/hyjal/spymann

[royal lantern]

its litearlly legion m+ again lol

nothing happening really, except bosses just 1shot kill at some point

idk why they went back to that

[drifting cloud]

well dont think it was planned, we just do too much dam compared to how tanky we get with ilvl I guess

so you just run into the survivability wall alot faster than the dps one

they should just cap dmg scaling on a key at like 28-30 while nerfing some dungeon outliers and let people go ham

but its same as every season, m+ tuning abandoned after first few weeks

[royal lantern]

tbf, thats cus they dont balance around high keys

for them its like "is every key doable at the max reward level? if yes, its fine"

[drifting cloud]

maybe, its hard to say sometimes, theres no good reason why waycrest bosses havent been touched yet

I guess theres no great push this season so tuning not needed

[pseudo hamlet]

!Fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rotund oak]

that reasonable

yes

[gaunt moat]

Man, i just realized my KB WA shows when each KB tick crits.
I forgot i even implemented it

I could probably add a counter showing how many crits you've had at the end if it's something you guys want

[vapid rapids]

How do the Rogue specs compare in terms of APM? Tried Outlaw but I’m finding it too daunting to get into

[strange python]

APM = ?

[earnest remnant]

outlaw > Sub > Assa
Sub and assa being close the same

but alot slower than outlaw

[vapid rapids]

Actions per minute

[vapid rapids]

Thanks! I have the impression that Assa is probably equivalent to Outlaw at the beginning of a pull but it tapers off - is that correct?

[earnest remnant]

nah

assa/sub is hard locked

1gcd a sec

outlaw is 0,8sec

so even when swimming in energy its still a fair bit slower

[vapid rapids]

Awesome, thanks for the info

My Pirate-mogged Tauren Rogue will make a fine Sin Rogue

[strange python]

is i t me or no one accept rogue in M+ even in +8 it's declined

[delicate acorn]

Tell him to practice opener and just cooldown windows in general

He presses the cooldowns into completely wrong order

Picked a Volcoross pull as example in which he pressed on pull cds in completely wrong order

[glacial stump]

Do we bind trinkets onto deathmark?

And pot

[rotund oak]

sin is a very intelligent way to get to know how rogue functions in general and still do dmg

ppl underestimate how good sin can be

[vapid rapids]

Just a good beginner spec?

[glacial stump]

No lol

[rotund oak]

a very good specc in general

not only a beginner one

[glacial stump]

If you can play rogue, you can play any spec

[rotund oak]

it just gives u more space to learn the class

[royal lantern]

@rotund oak hey man

you are still alive

[royal lantern]

ever thought about the fact that i dont want to play DF outlaw and sub?

[rotund oak]

hey my man

[glacial stump]

Outlaw looks like it would give me RSI

[rotund oak]

The way outlaw is right now,it definitely looks like the wrong way to start playing rogue

sub is alot of planning beforehand so kinda not recommended

sin is just perfect

good dmg,very good profile for raids,can even do keys

no downsides

[glacial stump]

Ive been trying to learn Sub last couple weeks. Taken me ages to get my head around it. Especially with having to vanish at the correct times

Started dabbling in Sin last few days, way easier to get my head around

[rotund oak]

yup,believe me,ive played rogue for 19 years and its still hard for me to play sub

there are times it doesnt make sense

[glacial stump]

also after learning sub, the sin stuff just makes sense ?

like what to spend where

[rotund oak]

its kinda different

[royal lantern]

tbf

[rotund oak]

the way u manage stuff

[royal lantern]

its mostly dust

making sub shity to play rn

[rotund oak]

ye its dust where things get complicated

[glacial stump]

I've only played dust so idk any other way

[royal lantern]

sub without dust and flag cd adjusted would be sooo much more intuitive

[glacial stump]

Is brew even viable

[royal lantern]

yes?

allright like

yeha you can play ut

[rotund oak]

brew is fine for keys at least

[royal lantern]

on some fights not really like smoldy cus he is based around dust

but its worse ofc

[rotund oak]

not competitive for raids

[royal lantern]

@earnest remnant how did your non-dust adventures go btw

[glacial stump]

Well I'm never gonna be a top % player so would it really matter?

[rotund oak]

the man is the embodiment of sub high-tech

[royal lantern]

a raccon?

https://tenor.com/view/racoon-blanket-gif-22051740

[kindred ingot]

Non-dust is not fun

[royal lantern]

"dust is FUN!!!" mf's when sub gets some adjustments and is not the best raidspec in the game anymore (suddenky its clunky and they want it removed cus its not #1 dmg anymore)

i just saw the "X talent is fun"->gets adjusted->"omg X talent sucks so hard omg" dance waaaaay to often

[kindred ingot]

Tbh dust is not that fun for m+,but it’s much better than non-dust

[earnest remnant]

went fine, did like 232k on Nymue without wft

[royal lantern]

man, idk my dps in numbers

[earnest remnant]

rank 14 ish

[kindred ingot]

Without vanish ur dps is sucked

[royal lantern]

[earnest remnant]

couldve been a rank 1 with wft

but it is what it is

they are private anyway

[royal lantern]

i had a 100 on igara on week2

private logs

[earnest remnant]

had 100 on igira week 1

[royal lantern]

yes early parse is a meme, but still

[earnest remnant]

[royal lantern]

(parse is a meme)

[earnest remnant]

[royal lantern]

i got a 0 on our smoldy kill

[arctic socket]

Big

[royal lantern]

[earnest remnant]

wouldve gotten rank 1 as sub, sunday if i just used my brain a little

[royal lantern]

died during 2nd intermission and they somehow killed it

[earnest remnant]

but that is hard for me sometimes

[royal lantern]

ez

[earnest remnant]

i dont think to much while i play

i just play

we go with the vibes

and hope it works out

[rare jackal]

what non dust build are you running

[royal lantern]

saaame

[earnest remnant]

i dont remember, i just threw something together when we got to Nymue

[rare jackal]

low iq: i pick talents that sound cool
mid iq: NOOOOOOOO BUT THE SIMS
high iq: i pick talents that sound cool

[arctic socket]

I like your YouTube time stamp picture for council

[royal lantern]

giga iq: i just copy what pins say, let others think

[arctic socket]

Bis

[earnest remnant]

thats how it felt to play the fight

[rare jackal]

if only you knew how bad things really are

[arctic socket]

For mythic council?

I have over 86 pulls on m council

[earnest remnant]

you just stand in the sidelines and watch the chaos unfold

huh????

what in the fuck

[rare jackal]

what in tarnation

[arctic socket]

86

Not 386

[earnest remnant]

you have 30 more pulls on council

than i did smolderon

when we first killed it

[rare jackal]

ngl, 10 pulls on council do feel like 100

[arctic socket]

Sounds like a guild difference

[earnest remnant]

[arctic socket]

[royal lantern]

mandatory @keen spruce ping

[arctic socket]

Shmeeps changed their icon

And idk how I feel about it

[royal lantern]

its only in RH

[earnest remnant]

thats our stats

[royal lantern]

general discord he is still the duck boi

[arctic socket]

That’s crazy

[royal lantern]

well, stealthi plays higher lvl then most lol

[arctic socket]

Tindral is the last boss tbh

Not fyrakk

[earnest remnant]

fyrakk is harder now

but our first 200 pulls on tindral was prenerf

[royal lantern]

? fyrakk is the same bs lol

like

fyrakk is also "every 15sec a wipe mechanic happens lol"

[arctic socket]

Still better for us then Tindral

[earnest remnant]

Both are amazing bosses tho

[royal lantern]

we spend the entire first raidday which is 3hours

[blazing jewel]

Fyrakk was really fun

[royal lantern]

just wiping p1 cus of puddle placement

[blazing jewel]

Private auras were bad on it though

[arctic socket]

Good times

[royal lantern]

saw intermission once

[rare jackal]

yeah that shit feels lame

[royal lantern]

and then 14people pressed macro

[arctic socket]

Three hours of puddles?

[royal lantern]

i REALLY hope they go back on that

like, private auras are sooo bad

with how they use them

[blazing jewel]

The mechanics they put them on are solved with weakaura work arounds and it just feels bad

Nelth bombs fyrakk orbs yucky

[dark token]

We are inting fyrakk hard

No kill yet

[royal lantern]

tbf, 40min was wasted on the "everyone dead and we cant stand up, so all leave the raid and wait until it resets" bug

[cedar iron]

some of them are alright, the p1 soaks for example. most suck though :/

[dark token]

When you make a simple mechanic with only 2-3 going out it's good

[earnest remnant]

well looka who's here

[dark token]

When you make a 14 ball positioning thing it's shit

[royal lantern]

when they do private auras witz stuff like echo circles

like bruh

the fuck do you expect there to happen

[dark token]

I like the cages private aura as well you can do with no macro if you wanted

[soft granite]

we hade 154 pulls on smolderon

[dark token]

But the intermission and nelth bomb is unacceptable

[blazing jewel]

This is what we had

[cedar iron]

nelth bombs are garbage as private aura, but would be a pisseasy mechanic with normal wa stuff

[royal lantern]

ye p1 soaks are w/e for that anyway, can just assing people for a soecific doak and thats it

[dark token]

They keep using it on the most complicated assignment mechanic of the fight and everyone fuckin hates it

Even on smold orbs it was bad

[cedar iron]

youd assign whos left/middle/right with normal was. not the soakers but the guys dropping the puddle

[blazing jewel]

They either don’t matter or are way too impactful

[dark token]

Really tarnished fyrakk and smold for me imo

Would be 10/10 bosses without

[royal lantern]

ye it just feels like the make the mechanics

[blazing jewel]

Time to keep a designated keybind for WA bosses

[royal lantern]

and then 2weeks pre release decide "and this is private now"

[dark token]

Bruh when people didn't switch their smold macro to fyrakk macro 150 pulls in

[cedar iron]

most are private very early on

[dark token]

[royal lantern]

thats why i name it after the boss

[blazing jewel]

Isn’t the liquid macro all in one now

[dark token]

I think they switched day 1, DC and it reverted to smold and they kept smold all the first of prog

It was always fucked

We are using northern sky

Not liquid

[arctic socket]

Gotta have a insider on guilds for them WAs

[cedar iron]

our wa is one macro for everything

[dark token]

I think we switched when it wasn't? At least originally

Now it is I think

[cedar iron]

always has been

[dark token]

Ok I'm tripping

That's the other thing these WA bosses make you not wanna switch WA mid prog even if one might be better

Because you don't wanna inevitably reprog and debug everyone's WA again

Idk it's not adding anything to fights and making them more frustrating they need to stop this private aura BS

[rotund oak]

holysht tswift gave u a hard time

[spice surge]

I have mine bound to sap

So sometimes in keys im yelling that i pressed the macro

[blazing jewel]

Prenerf Tswift gave everyone a hard time

[cedar iron]

i had glaive bound to the macro keybind on dh and when i swapped i just spammed raidchat most fights

[dark token]

Which nerf

The latest one?

[blazing jewel]

No the first one

[dark token]

I thought boss was reasonable after the 8->6 beam change

Helped a lot

Before was kinda rough

[blazing jewel]

Was a pretty decent nerf for anyone that was already progging it

Treant damage nerf was pretty big too

[dark token]

Yeah that set of nerfs had it in a good spot imo

(if it was an end boss)

[rare jackal]

can you double soak with cloak np?

[royal lantern]

i put the macro on my racial button

ita fun when im then doing a Dungeon, run out of melee range and wanna throw the vial just to yell I PRESSED MACRO

[blazing jewel]

Not really a point to do that

[royal lantern]

^

[rare jackal]

right, just curious

[dark token]

I have to cloak 2nd dream rend

[blazing jewel]

Usually just cloak on firestorm that happens on pull for uptime

[dark token]

Because our tank drags it to Africa

[rare jackal]

does it disappear when you do that?

[dark token]

And my symbols is up there

[blazing jewel]

No you just eat all the fire swirls in melee

So you can do opener ezpz

[dark token]

If I don't get that 3s of hitting it my cold blood won't be up for start of intermission

[rare jackal]

oh you dont mean the shit you have to drop

[blazing jewel]

Yea

[dark token]

Yeah I cloak on pull as well to not drop BSL on my opener

[blazing jewel]

Did you play dh this tier

[dark token]

Since I hard assigned it to dreamfend

[cedar iron]

altraid, ofcourse i played rogue 🙂

[blazing jewel]

📈

[dark token]

If I didn't use on dreamrend I would cloak a blaze somewhere

Like 1:05 blaze

[cedar iron]

no spatter on endboss was very fun

[blazing jewel]

Can you get your wl to flame ours some more

[cedar iron]

whos your wl

[blazing jewel]

Pfw

Well was our warlock for the tier

(Wasn’t actual flame)

@royal lantern HIT YOUR MACRO

[gusty mirage]

Go back to bed

[blazing jewel]

[floral shoal]

Years ago I had a macro announcing /s kick 1 for some rotation to keep voice clean. Next pug dungeon a player almost tilted "who the fuck do you want to kick nobody us bad" lol

[royal lantern]

I PRESSED MACRO

[bleak plume]

can someone explain how snapshotting with kingsbane works?

does it matter to buff the beginning damage of kingsbane for the end result or no?

[spice spire]

Yes

[oak tangle]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/486284970806083584/1165033412827037806/image.png

[oak tangle]

i made a macro to ask my priest for pi in raid, forgot i did it, and then proceeded to whisper them when i was doing keys

[maiden rover]

Lovely kb advice yesterday

[spice spire]

Did it help?

[maiden rover]

Lfr volcross. Big business. Not even 4p yet

[spice spire]

good shot homie

[maiden rover]

Sins pretty fun and chill af. After cds and your dots are runnin your kinda just chillen

It’s nice

[spice spire]

Ye always kinda been a chiller

[unique plume]

I love it for that chilliness and now aoe also feels chill (S1 was so hard to aoe with multi dotting ugh) I'm so happy with current ass vibe

[maiden rover]

I’m so happy with quakes ass vibe

[grim jay]

That sounds weird

[spice spire]

[hardy dagger]

"ass vibe"

[spice spire]

Calling it ass Is a sin

[maiden rover]

Should outlaw calling it ass

[royal python]

Are absorbs immune to crit

Example galakrond fall final boss absorb , or first boss on rise

[lime crypt]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[midnight mist]

you ok bud?

[lime crypt]

you are not supposed to see me here

https://tenor.com/view/creepy-gone-penguin-penguins-of-madagascar-gif-5274643

[midnight mist]

I follow my fellow outlawers everywhere

[lime crypt]

HE'S IN THE WALLS

[royal lantern]

RH staff still giving us hidden messanges

[midnight mist]

unmute outlaw now

[maiden rover]

Least it aint, sub out ass

[blazing jewel]

?

[lime crypt]

there, fixed it for you, theres no third spec

[royal lantern]

the only misc channels i have not muted

is offtopic and :3

[midnight mist]

no dont mute me pls uwu scana :3

[spice spire]

You lost king?

Because I’m glad you’re here uwu

[royal lantern]

uwu

[midnight mist]

Yes I missed you papa

[arctic hare]

Annnnnnd thats my cue to leave

[spice spire]

[boreal glacier]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gusty mirage]

surely

[ivory elk]

I just came from playing Arcane mage and now starting to really enjoy assasination, I'm kinda looking at the rotation as if I'm playing arcane with a 1min & 2 min burst with 1 min being kingsbane and 2min being kingsbane + deathmark.
My question is, how do I upkeep decent DPS during downtime? The 2 min burst does really good damage and the 1 min burst is decent but the downtime DPS is real bad it feels like.

Might be a gearing issue, currently 455, which results in not enough energy being generated and therefore less mutilate/envenom spam? idk.

[gusty mirage]

a lot of it is gear, and a lot of it is just the spec tbh

[shy pecan]

[gusty mirage]

you're kinda just chilling maintaining dots until your KB comes back

[subtle gyro]

Im around the same ilvl 453, and having the same struggle

[gusty mirage]

like this is the damage profile of assa

[subtle gyro]

Getting use to the envenom chaining and trying to keep up Sang as much as possible

[gusty mirage]

outside of CDs you're kinda just vibing

yeah outside of that there's not much you can do

[ivory elk]

K, seems like I'm doing what I can then 🙂

[gusty mirage]

outside of KB windows you're just pooling to try to maximize sanguine blades and just chilling tbh

[ivory elk]

Thought I was missing something but seeing that graph it now makes sense 😛

I guess pooling gets a lot more effective with higher gear aswell

[subtle gyro]

So i need to auto more and pool better, over just spamming and completely not having energy at all, and no tea...

[ivory elk]

Think I have the same issue 😛

[spice surge]

Youll be out of energy, thats how the spec is designed to play

[ivory elk]

But while waiting for KB/DM you wanna pool energy and stay above 50% right?
Which I assume gets easier with better gear

[spice surge]

No

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[ivory elk]

I see, thanks a lot

Currently dont have 4 set but might aswell play like I do to get a feeling for it

And sorry but what is pandemic?

[spice spire]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[spice spire]

[ivory elk]

Lol, y'all are prepared for stupid questions

[wind jungle]

!stupidquestions

U good homie

[spice spire]

Not every stupid question but also

Learning doesn’t equate to stupid

You’ve not had a dot class so this isn’t knowledge to you

Don’t be so hard on yourself

[halcyon egret]

would you take the massive ilvl upgrade on the dagger (i'm still farming for nicks, this is my alt) or the max tier bis ring on this one?

the ring is also a more massive ilvl upgrade

[raven egret]

I did it team

[gusty mirage]

not a stupid question, because pandemic is explained absolutely nowhere in the fucking game

it used to be a warlock talent in mop

that they just made baseline for most hots/dots

[ivory elk]

Nice, it's not me being dumb for once 😄

[spice spire]

Not at all homie

[gusty mirage]

yeah we love mechanics that are core parts of the game that are explained absolutely nowhere

[ivory elk]

This community nicer than mage community NGL

[halcyon egret]

you: worried about being stupid for asking questions
me: learning something new at 9:53 am on a tuesday

[dark token]

They should just add dots to infinity

[spice spire]

Being inquisitive for the sake of learning is not dumb. Asking questions that are way too available and in the face? Kinda dumb.

But learning is never a bad thing

[dark token]

What's the problem if you reapply early

[spice spire]

And as long as it’s somewhat diligent, who cares

[gusty mirage]

brother we waited 10 years for them to add envenom to zoldyck

[dark token]

Or everything mage ignites but then we would cast snd 3x

[spice spire]

We try to help and be as friendly as possible (almost to a fault)

Sometimes we veer off topic

[gusty mirage]

sometimes?

[spice spire]

[dark token]

Imagine if all dots infinite pandemic

You spam CT on a 20 pull

100s of it

Sudden demise proc

[spice spire]

Bro you good?

[gusty mirage]

I think the funniest part about them not having infinite pandemic

is it really doesn't even mean more damage

lmao

it's still doing the same amount of damage

it's just one less thing you have to worry about later on in the pull

[dark token]

Yay only exception is effects like sudden demise

[gusty mirage]

ayo JUICED DEMISE

[halcyon egret]

i feel like not having infinite pandemic allows for some incentive to play with fewer mistakes

[dark token]

It would actually make sudden demise good

Unironically good gameplay

[gusty mirage]

slap a 2 minute rupture on a big add in a key

and watch it just instagib the moment it hits 35%

[dark token]

Demised

[halcyon egret]

lol

[dark token]

It would make IC feel better too

Triple pull you garrote 3x

Now you got 80s of enhanced garrote

This definitely won't have any hidden game breaking things on warlock or rogue

But honestly that sounds like a much more fun version of sudden demise

The 35% HP part is barely relevant

It's limited by dot length

[slate crown]

Yeah, and especially CP based classes where your dot has a variable duration makes it even more confusing because even if you understand the core of "some of the last application can carry over" you now have the added complication of "wait which duration do we care about the new or the old one".

[desert inlet]

good news friends

the trick is to only do one key

[halcyon egret]

did you get a nick from a single vault slot

[desert inlet]

[halcyon egret]

https://tenor.com/view/glee-sue-sylvester-cheering-cheer-excited-gif-16955937

[dark token]

[wind jungle]

Tru, my havoc got mythic double time w/ leech last week from the only vault slot

[gusty mirage]

big vault

[subtle tundra]

i wont even get 6

its 4 for me

[gusty mirage]

not helping your guildies get their leggo

smh my head

[subtle tundra]

i think they all have it or something

not sure

[gusty mirage]

oh

we've dropped 1

so we clear 4 bosses heroic every week

[subtle tundra]

idk folyr got his weekly so.................................

[gusty mirage]

and I did 2 keys

[subtle tundra]

im hyped for vault tomorrow

folyr rising

[gusty mirage]

once I got a mythic nicholas

I stopped caring

[subtle tundra]

once i finished prog i stopped caring

[gusty mirage]

well I haven't done that yet

SIR

[subtle tundra]

SIR

i didnt even have 2nd nicholas at all

and did just fine

[gusty mirage]

yeah but I'm bad

[subtle tundra]

as long as youre decent it dont matter much more

just dont die

prog is just that easy

[gusty mirage]

how do I stop dying when someone fucks up the seeds in p3

[subtle tundra]

play with gamers

my guildies gamed

[distant cliff]

sims keep taking me down a crit/haste route and it makes me sad.

[gusty mirage]

why is it making you sad?

[distant cliff]

cause i thought we were supposed to like mastery.. and its now my 3rd stat. Less sad, and more confused/unsure i guess

[gusty mirage]

are you using branch

[distant cliff]

yeah, i managed to score one of those

[gusty mirage]

yeah that'll do it

3k+ mastery kinda makes chasing mastery on gear a lil less important

[distant cliff]

ah. well.. i suppose that makes sense.

[dark token]

icant

[spice spire]

Io isn’t high enough unlucky

[spice surge]

You cannot dispel afflicted indeed

[dark token]

they have 2 dispellers

[spice spire]

Lust needed for that serious 20 sorry king

[slim pebble]

Only 3.6k rogues need apply

[river ember]

How many of you guys are playing ashes over branch in raid?

[arctic socket]

Only 3.5k? Noob

[muted tapir]

whats everyone's fav build this week 👀

[spice spire]

Whichever one my finger points to

[clever niche]

pugging mythic plus in one image

[runic hinge]

[spice spire]

?

[arctic socket]

I have a dice I roll on my desk with the different rogue builds

What ever it lands on is the build I choose

[runic hinge]

You don't even go here

(you're not subbed)

[spice spire]

Okay outlaw main

[spice spire]

Yeah because I play sin?

I’d never play sub

[marble hemlock]

https://gyazo.com/acc33c792fbf82d1721af8c7189296b7

[dark token]

im not posting about rio

i rarely do that

im posting about pugging keys as assa

[marble hemlock]

[spice spire]

This may never come in use but it’s so niche that I’m saving it

[marble hemlock]

dw

[past forum]

did someone make a video somewhere suggesting a m+ build without iron wire? i ran into 5 different rogues last week running weekly keys on my alts and NONE of them played iron wire

[marble hemlock]

the last one i made was "0 days since last hacha max crit post"

gotten plenty of use out of that one too

[spice spire]

Blud needs notter’s kb weak aura

[jade coral]

imagine finally being blessed 🥲

[maiden rover]

Notters is BiS

[pseudo hamlet]

What's the Notter KB weak aura? It's something that helps you manage shivs during the KB window?

[spice spire]

Yeah also shows the high score

[pseudo hamlet]

I guess it's this one?
https://wago.io/PFTo3o6Ug

[spice spire]

Yes

[limber lion]

not really

just says what the uptime of your shiv was

[gaunt moat]

No...

[spice spire]

It also does the marking

[gaunt moat]

It also shows whwn to use abilities and much more

[spice spire]

Haven’t used it - but that’s what @maiden rover was saying yesterday

[gaunt moat]

But i use it in conjunction with LE'S kb timeline

[spice spire]

That’s gotta be updated from the very first edition, right? I remember the first just showed up times. But Hilsh said it did it all + that

[limber lion]

nice

so he added the thing that I asked for a few months ago

but was super hesitant to add

That's good

[gaunt moat]

It did it from the start

[limber lion]

Didn't show pandemic

started glowing when it dropped

when it's already too laste

[maiden rover]

It glows then you shiv then it’ll glow again and u vanish

[limber lion]

late*

or whatever

showing when the target has shiv on it or not is not enough information

you gotta know in advance that you have to press Shiv soon

and press it before it drops

but good if it does that now

[gaunt moat]

It glows when it's time to shiv again

And slightly before envenom drops off (during pandemic)

For these two

[grim tangle]

you crazy kids and your crazy weakauras, mine just track the cooldown

[limber lion]

The latter one being completely uselesws

because you don't pool

you just send 24/7

[limber lion]

And exactly, that's the problem

That info is too late

it drops

then it glows

and it takes 1gcd to get it back up

Or you do it too early and miss out on timing

or whatever

you have to know stuff 3s in advance

buty eah

anyways

[limber lion]

Same, that's all you need

CD and duration

[gaunt moat]

If you really care abiut hitting envenom pandemic during KB, you could hold it for when it glows.
But that's not how you play during KB.
You just spam.

[limber lion]

Exactly

So why would you have a tracker to show Envenom pandemic on the weakaura

when it's completely useless information

instead of having a tracker that shows you in advance to pay attention to Shiv

anyways

we've been over this

it is what it is

doesn't matter

[pseudo hamlet]

Speaking of timings, how are you guys managing the thistle teas? I am usually using 2 on the opener(at the beginning of DM and at the end of KB) and then just save 1 tea always to have after each KB.
Not sure if there's any other way?

[limber lion]

The proper way is to use one tea with the last 6s of Kingsbane everytime

So only using one in the opener, not 2

And after that you use it for energy outside of cooldowns

Making sure to always hold 1 for KB

So if you play properly, you would use 1 tea with KB, then 2 tea charges outside of cds

[gaunt moat]

That's what LE'S WA is good for, i use both, showing in a timelime gives you a differrnt perspective on how to prepare.

[limber lion]

then you use tea on cd with kb

[pseudo hamlet]

Ok! Thought that TT + DM on the opener is recommended because of the mastery buff at the beginning, would just use 1 tea for KB then(at the end of it)

[limber lion]

Yupyup

[gaunt moat]

The mastery bonus from it is negligible at the start of KB

So better used for when you lack energy

[pseudo hamlet]

Thanks guys

[gaunt moat]

But i just realized today my WA tracks when each tick crits.
Been so long, i forgot i even imlemented it

[past forum]

is there a fast way to sim all the combos of missives for multiple crafted pieces or would i just have to do individual sets in gear compare for every combo i wanted?

[runic hinge]

Check the pins in #tc-research

[spice spire]

#tc-research message

[fallow canopy]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[past forum]

i knew it was somewhere, ty. i never go there cause i assumed it's a bunch of egg heads talking about stuff way smarter than my small brain can comprehend

[soft finch]

Elusiveness makes Feint have an increased AoE Damage reduction of 7.5%
I took 40% less damage without Elusiveness and Feign on in AoE
I took 43% less damage with Elusivess and Feign on in AoE

[spice surge]

Elusiveness should have no effect on aoe spells, its likely you just had a proc of something else that made you take less

[soft finch]

Checked it many times over on every spec with two different rogues

First mob in Ruby Life Pools casts Excavation Blast which is AoE, can try it yourself

[spice surge]

Link the logs

[soft finch]

No logs cause its the first mob in Ruby Life Pools on Myhic 😅

You can join me in testing it

Im making a Weakaura that shows what your health will be once an incoming spell goes through and it was wrong for rogues, been spending a few hours trying to figure out why.
We body pulled it or pulled it with bomb, made sure there were no active buffs the entire time.

Heres the numbers

[runic hinge]

What about Avoidance on gear

[soft finch]

Shouldnt matter if you have elusivness or not

We pulled the mob with elusivness, once without Feint and once with Feint
We pulled the mob without elusiveness, once without feint and once with feint

[runic hinge]

Avoidance is gonna make you take less aoe damage tho?

[soft finch]

Yeah but the difference is the AoE damage taken while having Feint up and Elusiveness or not, its not AoE vs non-AoE

[runic hinge]

Could the bug be with feint not taking into account avoidance without elusiveness up. Like you said feint alone no elusiveness was 40% like it should be but then feint with it is slightly more. Is elusiveness just adding your avoidance to your feint damage reduction

[honest oxide]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[soft finch]

its 3% on two different rogues, one ilvl 487 and one ilvl 420 something, i didnt check avoidance but it was exactly 3% on both

[spice surge]

Atrophic

Probably

[soft finch]

Nop

Didnt have any poison and didnt pull with pistol shot

one rogue has 4.51% avoidance, dont know about the other

[runic hinge]

…

[soft finch]

You are free to test it and confirm, it takes 3 minutes to test 😛

[runic hinge]

I mean you can’t say one takes more and less when you’re not even testing the same rogue with the same gear

[soft finch]

Each rogue tested multiple times on every spec, both had the exact same result, with Elusiveness Feint does 43% DR on AoE, without Elusiveness Feint does 40% DR on AoE

I didnt test once with one rogue and once with another, ive spent the past hour(s) on this 😅

The past 3 hours going by my changelog.
I dont have a level 70 rogue personally so i invite you to test, takes 3 minutes to test

[clever sapphire]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/486284970806083584/1165033412827037806/image.png

[spice surge]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fJjm7x1D3wZCvg9N#fight=6&type=damage-taken&view=events Without elusiveness
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fJjm7x1D3wZCvg9N#fight=7&type=damage-taken&view=events With elusiveness
Yep seems like it does actually reduce slightly more, i initially thought it would have ignored the extra avoidance from gear but that wasnt it

[dark token]

ssshhh

[soft finch]

Couldnt figure out why its 3% (or 7.5% effectiveness) either, best i found was a 15% thing from MoP

[dark token]

it should be 48% DR, if the elvusive effect worked on aoe

[brittle lynx]

I see there are THREE raid specs, which one would you recommend?

[shy pecan]

Dance

[brittle lynx]

Thank you

[dark token]

no dance and spike suck

[runic hinge]

He means they are behind in dps

[clever sapphire]

he better do

spike doesnt suck

it just likes tickling the enemy

[dark token]

well

spike doesnt suck

no dance SUCKS

both gameplay wise and dps

[boreal glacier]

is there a big difference with lariat with full sockets and toxic thorns in st ? i see top warcraft loggers almost always thorns+patch but was wondering if lariat was far away

[balmy condor]

It’s not that far away

But like

All the embellishments do shit damage these days

You’re picking which of the 2% effects you want to roll with

And one of them might be 1.8% and the other might be 2.2%

But really who gives a shit ya know

[snow zealot]

Why are so many people running embersoul over branch on smolderon/tswift/fyrakk?

[spice surge]

Because branch is annoying

[river ember]

I despise branch

good trinket but i’d use ashes any day over it

[spice spire]

https://tenor.com/view/krill-issue-skill-issue-krill-issue-gif-25572478

[lavish wing]

and ashes is burstier

[upbeat needle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4KYaLipvZGRYDvWrRS7nvn

is "use items" me using branch?

also follow up if branch is 2 min cd can i just macro it into deathmark?

[shy pecan]

Yes to both

[upbeat needle]

assuming its DM first then branch

[shy pecan]

Using Branch doesn't incur a GCD

[upbeat needle]

oh nice

[shy pecan]

Or any trinket for that matter (unless it has a channel/cast)

[runic hinge]

(Fuck puzzle box)

[spice spire]

False bestie

[shy pecan]

Do you like Grieftorch?

[spice spire]

Wouldn’t know

[shy pecan]

Not you

Tony 😛

[spice spire]

Never had one

[shy pecan]

I don't care about you

(jk, I do)

[upbeat needle]

what was the nighthold trinket? that was a great one

[spice spire]

Makes two of us bozo

Get woke

[shy pecan]

[runic hinge]

I didn’t get one until late in the tier and I had a vault puzzle box by then anyways

[spice spire]

Real

[golden mirage]

So i like running the build for dungeons that uses Crimson Tempest and Iron Wire for the garote silences, but i see that many other people are moving away from that. Sims show that the alternate build can output more damage, but i am having a hard time giving up the utility of Iron Wire, is there a really compelling reason to give it up for the alternate build?

[shy pecan]

That was so fast btw @gray crest, ty

[maiden rover]

Why does the scary trinket have to be a bigger fella who can’t fit into a professionally tailored suit

[spice spire]

He’s a fed

Not the scary trinket, roujin

[eternal nymph]

Why would you ever not run iron wire

[shy pecan]

I mean, you can give it up if you don't care about silencing casters for four seconds whatsoever... Such good utility to give up though.

[eternal nymph]

That seems hella griefing

[shy pecan]

For like a bit more damage? Not really worth it imo

[spice spire]

It is

[golden mirage]

That exactly why i have stayed with it, AOE silences on pull, with vanish, and shadow dance is invaluable but percentages wise its not as popular

[shy pecan]

The question is what they're dropping IW for

[golden mirage]

basically looks like the single target tree with indiscriminate carnage

[shy pecan]

So they gave up IW for CT

[golden mirage]

the alternate i saw was using that and giving up improved poisons for iron wire but that sims the worst

[shy pecan]

Can you link the build? I don't remember imp. poisons being taken in M+

[golden mirage]

https://mplus.subcreation.net/assassination-rogue.html talent builds 1 vs 2, i run 2

[shy pecan]

It says they all run IW because it's among the shared talents?

[golden mirage]

spec tree talent builds 1 vs 2

[runic hinge]

I ain’t ever giving up iron wire

Iron wire is my bff

[shy pecan]

Yeah, I don't see it

[spice spire]

Subcreation

[shy pecan]

Also, what Quake said about subcreation

[runic hinge]

Sometimes my tank is like I’ll get first aoe stop and then we kill the pack before they ever start casting because I just chain silence and I giggle

[arctic hare]

You dun good whispyr

Good read.

[golden mirage]

hmm, maybe only on tryrannical weeks its a choice

[shy pecan]

I dunno

[bronze pike]

@balmy condor good read fren

[shy pecan]

Also, need to be careful with looking at data aggregation websites like this

[golden mirage]

lask week the talents didnt show much iron wire usage but this week it does

[shy pecan]

Just because their parser goes through it and finds this, it doesn't mean it's a good idea

[balmy condor]

Ty

[balmy condor]

Ty

[balmy condor]

Data aggregation webpages doing the stupidest shit imaginable

More news at 11

[golden mirage]

well they do it based on the week and its affixes so it makes sense why it would be different tyrannical vs fortified, one more focused on boss single target damage, but yes i can see how it can skew things

[runic hinge]

@balmy condor dropping another banging wowhead article. More news at 11

[balmy condor]

Give Stuart a kiss from me

[spice spire]

Yeah the news at 11 is I’m gonna bang the wowhead article

[blazing jewel]

[runic hinge]

I will as soon as I get home

That’s the best time for it. He’s always excited to see us.

[spice spire]

Hated that

[fallen forge]

absolute banger

[sharp osprey]

drop improved poisons for IW and dashing scoundrel for IC

[runic hinge]

Play ap shock cause ap is sick and zoldy is sick and poison bomb keeps covering ground effects

[past forum]

@balmy condor great read, only thing I’d change is starting the article “Whoever is convincing the sheeps to drop Iron Wire in keys……stop it…..get some help.”

[spice surge]

"Iron wire? This talent doesnt give me any dps, swapping away from it"

[balmy condor]

I did that one time in shadowlands and got told to stop it

[spice spire]

Yeah sorry about that

[past forum]

I just spam “No Iron Wire = feed” in party chat now if I see this foul behavior

[spice surge]

Worst part is that theres not like you get to pick some massive dps talent instead of it

Its like improved poisons, wow big whoop

[past forum]

Is there anywhere it could be moved that would force people to take it in aoe for pathing but not in ST?

[shy pecan]

I think where it is is fine

Because you're always gonna take Sanguine Blades, right? So the next logical step is an optional choice to take it

And tbf, it's not technically mandatory to take it... And people will be greedy like they have been and take some other DPS talent over it

[past forum]

Yeah it just annoys me to see ppl not take it for piss dps increase

[spice surge]

Idk not necessarily, vicious venoms could just be more damage per energy, or we just dont have the energy to sustain either of them next expac

[shy pecan]

In AoE? O_o

[spice surge]

Oh ye mb

[static glacier]

heavily depends on how good envenom is

[shy pecan]

kk

[spice surge]

Probably not vicious venoms on aoe

[static glacier]

if we can ever take VV

[shy pecan]

I was like

[spice surge]

But maybe we dont have energy for sanguine

[shy pecan]

Yeah, could see that ST wise, but I figured in AoE/M+, it was always gonna be taken

So it gave the option of taking IW. I don't know about forcing people to take it because sometimes, you don't want to?

The example being raid

[past forum]

where you take Intent to Kill

[shy pecan]

[past forum]

okay i know it sounds like meme

[shy pecan]

Anyway, sin doesn't need tree fixes. Let realz focus on the sub tree a bit 😉

[past forum]

i cancel what i was cookin you right

[runic hinge]

I think people would like to see us move away from being kingsbane the spec but tbh I like kb so we shall what direction we go in

[slate crown]

I've said it before but every single talent in the sin tree is, at the very least, interesting, with like 2 exceptions, and after the dust settled on figuring out builds, they all seem to also be viable to some extent, with only a handful of exceptions

[spice surge]

Most of that comes down to tuning really, obviously the synergy for KB is very high but the talent was also just strong this tier

[past forum]

if they rebalanced it where KB wasn't auto lock but only like X% behind bis build, what value for X would you still play KB at?

[spice surge]

Ye assa tree is fantastic

[shy pecan]

#FixSub

[spice surge]

Having "too many" viable builds is a very good problem too have tbh

[shy pecan]

Agreed

[spice surge]

Obv theres always things to improve

[runic hinge]

I think burst is just very valuable in most situations and even if kb was behind somehow you would still find a way to play it because on demand burst is just very strong

Especially with the way spatter works

[spice surge]

Speccing into kb for a burst situation even though its a loss for overall dps is a good choice to make too

[runic hinge]

Let’s say we’re not just juicing kb but we’re holding it for add spawns or other mechanics

[spice surge]

(in theory, depends on how much it is ofc)

[runic hinge]

It’s gonna be good for a lot of things

[runic hinge]

Making choices for encounter design and specific content is cool instead of you’re always gonna be taking these talents

[static glacier]

lowkey, im okay always taking KB

[runic hinge]

Assa is really good rn I think in m+ as far as diversity but in raid it’s kinda do you take spatter or do you not

I feel like I’m just quoting whispyrs article from today

[static glacier]

I prefer it being a good capstone to survival hunter situation (all the cds are gigafake, you can take em or avoid all, it doesn't matter)

[shy pecan]

I mean, it's hard when you're only taking ST talents, yeah?

[runic hinge]

It’s interesting that they brought back these bigger talent trees but for the most part most specs are just hard locked into “this is best dps”. Wow players just can’t help but cookie cutter and sim chase

[shy pecan]

To some degree, yeah

But like M+, you have like 3-4 different builds

[runic hinge]

Yeah. M+ sin is super good

I’ve been switching builds just based on what I’m feeling like playing for the week

[past forum]

yeah its some of the most fun ive had in m+ in a while, not just on rogue but in general

[runic hinge]

Shadow priests buffs today. Ooooweee. Cant wait to get out of work

[shy pecan]

But yeah, sucks when raid/ST is only one, but tuning can change that

Could be a lot worse. Could be like enh shaman and have like one build at all times in almost all content 😐

[storm forum]

is the necro build still okay? it simmed well (negligibly, like +80dps) for me at some point earlier in the season but i stopped simming it cause i dont have premium and dont care that much about it.

[balmy condor]

yeh

it's still fine

just no one plays it

and then because no one plays it

no one who looks for builds sees it

so then every less no one plays it

but like according to sims its better than playing like acro for example

[storm forum]

nice

[fair stirrup]

is everyone running Crimson Tempest in high keys, like 22+?

[runic hinge]

I run crimson tempest in every key

[fair stirrup]

good to know thank you

i have been as well, just was curious as im trying to start pushing farther into the 20's

[boreal glacier]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vapid rapids]

Random q - I see there are 3 M+ builds on IcyVeins ( No Acro DtB, Acro DtB and AP); is there a generally preferred one for M+? Or is it all situational?

[dark token]

There are like 5 m+ builds

Run AP + blindside + sudden demise in keys below 25

[sharp osprey]

i play cleave build and it's fine at +25

[dark token]

Stuff doesn't live long enough to get the full deathmark and KB out that cleave build needs

You will do better with a sudden demise build

[vapid rapids]

Is this build listed somewhere?

[sharp osprey]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/talent-builds-pve-dps

arterial shock build

all the builds are kinda pretty close though

[dark token]

I gave up on sin keys

Can't live tyran bosses 29+

[vapid rapids]

Thanks! I'm very beginner as a Rogue and was told Sin is a good start

[dark token]

And our add dmg is bad on hardest bosses

[runic hinge]

Just use your beacon

[dark token]

The hardest bosses like brh last boss, everbloom last boss, thorns boss WM have constantly spawning adds we just do low DPS to

Add switching is haha as sin

[runic hinge]

Did a 24 wm with spriest enhance and me and the enhance got like 6 thorns in a row

They didn’t die quickly lol

[kindred crescent]

is BSL worth it in M+

[runic hinge]

It was a 2% gain for me but depends on gear

[dark token]

Yes

[kindred crescent]

awesome

[storm forum]

we dont hold for Smold right?

we just blast and if things line up they line up

[balmy condor]

yuh

[keen spruce]

you hold your

[storm forum]

wowee

[keen spruce]

3rd dm

that's it

for like 15-20s

so it hits the 3rd intermission

with lust

[storm forum]

im bad and my CDs drift so thatll probably happen naturally

[grim tangle]

try not to be bad

[drifting cloud]

you cant make me

[chilly marsh]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/a-look-back-at-assassination-rogue-in-dragonflight-and-war-within-wishlist-337295
Very good read totally agree with your points @balmy condor

I would only add some quality of life with stealth for sin rogues. It's really annoying when tanks just chain pull non stop in m+ I wish we had something like: Every 5-8 enemies killed your next vanish can be used for free or Indiscriminate Carnage would active again.

tanks dont like sin rogues asking to let you stealth 😢

[balmy condor]

yeh I mean

they shouldn't let you stealth unless they need the iron wire

[split grail]

How big is PI for us? Like all things being equal how much should a PI increase our parse?