assassination

[vestal wren]

execute is the strongest niche

[dark token]

Sin had a problem for ages where it wasn't really bursty

[vestal wren]

passive cleave, like with BF or splatter is the best

sin is design wise rly good atm

[royal lantern]

mate, if you say that, i want the opposite

[dark token]

Exactly

[royal lantern]

[crisp pine]

Best damage profile is whatever the fuck WW has going on

[spice spire]

Nib log review

[slate crown]

No gods no masters

[crisp pine]

Oh god Fuu got executed

[vestal wren]

na, it wasn't my message

i halucinated

[crisp pine]

huffed on the crippling poison again

[slate crown]

we're all being gaslit this fine morning

[vestal wren]

this is a good discussion

do you think sin fits the burst theme well

or is KB too dominant and it would maybe be better to spread it more evenly

[storm forum]

We've never been gaslit in our lives

[wind dune]

yea i can agree desigin wise sins great. Number wise its not. Its so frustrating being only balanced around raid while the other 2 specs run around like that spongebobmeme where im squidward looking out the window seeing them have a blast

[dark token]

Outlaw is over there ->

[keen spruce]

I mean if Assas only 2m burst "ree we just CD class, our dots do nothing"
if 2/1m burst "reee we're just scuffed sub rogues"
if bad burst "reee we have no amp value"
if they made no burst with new cleave talents "reee we're just outlaw rogues"

[wind dune]

Yea im part of those 737 man I play it in m+

[keen spruce]

I like the gameplay loop rn. Pretty dynamic in m+

[crisp pine]

congrats!

[keen spruce]

like no one would be complaining about the damage profiles

[wind dune]

Good points there for sure but wahts the community think?

[crisp pine]

Greet the others from me

[wind dune]

They always want sub over sin my guy

[vestal wren]

subtlety rly having a blast in m+

[keen spruce]

if we were tuned high enough

[vestal wren]

like you mentioned

all the 97 sub rogues in 25+

[crisp pine]

You guys think the warlock wouldve kicked me if I was sub?

[vestal wren]

so, there are only ~8 times the sin palyers in high m+ keys

[keen spruce]

in the 25+ I apply to

sub rogues often get invited over me

[wind dune]

good point tho yes, I understand that subs m+ is really hard this tier and its offputting for lots too so. It is just the people maining it really

[dark token]

I queue as outlaw

[vestal wren]

lets investigate

[dark token]

Swap to sin in pull timer

[vestal wren]

[keen spruce]

i would do that if it didn't grief some dungeons based on the comp you ahve

[vestal wren]

so how is it in 20+, so the bracket everyone plays

[wind dune]

same bro

[vestal wren]

17k sin rogues

vs. 3.9k sub

[sour wraith]

Non bm hunter players are dooming for sure holy moly

[vestal wren]

still ~4-5 times the players sub has in m+

[dark token]

Even tho I think sub is objectively stronger in m+ than sin

It plays like shit

Like really shit

[keen spruce]

popluation size also has a lot to do with community perception of Gear/statweights/embelishments

[wind dune]

okay fuu now look at the highest keys done by specs?

[dark token]

That's why it's not played

[keen spruce]

ik many people started on assas

[vestal wren]

i don't know

if you can decide between outlaw

[royal lantern]

i allready wanna call you names all the time

[dark token]

People try it and realize it sucks and they need 100 keys in a consistent comp to make it good

[jaunty warren]

FWIW I think the root of the issue is blizz trying to make all dps roughly “equal” in performance. I love rogue but it kills me that I can get crushed by hybrid classes that have better options

[keen spruce]

and won't go sub cuz they have toxic boots or too much haste

[royal lantern]

dont make it worse

[keen spruce]

or some goofy ass reason

[vestal wren]

where performance is easier to achive

and subtlety, you perform only to the same degree but need to do a lot right

i think it is easy to see why most ppl will decide on sub (jk, outlaw)

[jaunty warren]

I still run M+ plus as sin but it takes more work

[dark token]

Sin is way less work than sub lol

[wind dune]

The highest keys are being completed on SUB and outlaw usually 2 key levels higher than assa. IT just doesnt work in m+ as much as the number wanna say. Am i wrong in saying its squisher than the other 2 specs aswell?

[dark token]

Or outlaw even

[wind dune]

I think it is, cant sub take ashield in shadowdance/stealth and shit. and outlaw just gets more vers/stam

[keen spruce]

I mean diva and prophet are basically the only two sub hold outs

in NA

3rd highest ranked sub rogue in the region is only 3240

[wind dune]

ahh just eu's built difft

diffy

[keen spruce]

EU only has 3 sub rogues over 3400

[earnest remnant]

soon 4

[keen spruce]

are you even in EU

[spice spire]

Yes

[wind dune]

yea sins just more popular/easier to pilot forsure. especially with the shadowdust shit keeping track of subs stuff would be a nightmare at times. But the ceilings higher on the other 2. speaking for m+

[spice spire]

?

[keen spruce]

idk where raccoons live man

[spice spire]

Denmark apparently

[keen spruce]

I feel like the only way to really excel on assas

is to do what Zero does

[earnest remnant]

be stubborn?

[jaunty warren]

I still don’t understand the most recent nerfs to sin

[keen spruce]

and just make a 5 man stack that simps for you and scream at eachother in european languages

[wind dune]

Just build a cringe comp around you and refuse to use cc while youre in cds

[keen spruce]

and chain smoke for more dps

[wind dune]

^^ LMAoo

[spice spire]

Tier lists

[earnest remnant]

strongest of combos

[runic hinge]

The most important part

[keen spruce]

I watched this man hold his entire group before an atal pull

for 10s

for his deathmark to come off cd

in a 28

if I told my group to do that

[past forum]

i can't breath anymore but that's okay surely the dps kicks in soon

[keen spruce]

they'd throw me in the ocean

but they also reset rezan with a bug and still timed it so ig they can do w/e they want

[past forum]

holding for ass cooldowns in m+ in the year of our lord twenty twenty four

[wind dune]

its because of those other talents i mentioned where they get added survivability ontop of taking elusiveness, which elusiveness is mandatory for dungeons this season when you get higher

[keen spruce]

there are 500000 reasons why aggregate data like this without context is complete dogshit

[wind dune]

sub and law just get the lil extra oomph

[keen spruce]

and trying to make sense of it with assumption

is not healthy

ALSO one downside to assas in m+

is that priests will ALWAYS

pi the dH

[wind dune]

NEVER PI YOUI BRO

YES

[keen spruce]

even if you tell them

[wind dune]

SAY IT LOUDER

[keen spruce]

you're assas

and "hey pi me on my deathmark"

because of course you fuckin would

unless you're playing with a BM hunter

which like, that ain't happening

north of 25s anyways

[wind dune]

yea havent seen a hunter 25+ in a couple weeks

[spice spire]

Don’t bring logic into this now after the Nick of time probability spreadsheet mister duck

[keen spruce]

i like logic and number

[dark token]

unholy pi is also huge in m+ fyi

[spice spire]

Unholy dk in keys

[dark token]

its like a gimped ret

rets are in keys

i did a key with my dk guildy he did 2.5m on first pull of everbloom without pi

i was only 1.5m

[wind dune]

Oh and not being able to take acrobatics strike in m+ with out a dps loss is a feelsbad 😦

or in general even for raid build but matters more in m+ where you cant even play the game as melee often

[spice spire]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[spice spire]

@nocturne torrent

[keen spruce]

~3% loss for sin

but no one will voluntarily take a 3% loss

they'd rather just complain about acro, lose uptime, and do 3% worse anyways

[spice spire]

Or even worse

[keen spruce]

or worse

based on the logs i look at

and I rarely notice or care about acro in m+

[spice spire]

People with old Exsang too

[keen spruce]

took like

a week to get used to

[spice spire]

People fall in love with simulations

[keen spruce]

ye

[wind dune]

Yea just a feelsbad never said it was needed :p just missed not having to be in a mobs asshole

[keen spruce]

it took me like a week to get used to. but before the IC adjustment

acro actually felt worse

cuz if you were max range garroting targets IC would often not spread to the rest of the pack

but now it's more cozy

I ran acro in DHT

for a week or two

while i was learning not to get gunned down by the first boss

[cursive frost]

is there a reason to go with ember over branch for mythic tswift?

[keen spruce]

and it helped on last boss too

[keen spruce]

ease of use and not needing to pick up orbs in one of the most hectic fights designed in the last several years

[cursive frost]

and how does the blind with blackjack work at 50 secs?

[wind dune]

Yea lost boss it would be nice since melee trol so fucking hard on dht last boss no one ever lets the melee with fear get uptime i swear

[keen spruce]

do you play 4% off perfect?

[wind dune]

they never stand max melee

[keen spruce]

and are you as good at sub as you are assas?

[crisp pine]

That's why you play undead 😎

[keen spruce]

like i'm sure i could learn it eventually

but i'd be taking an enormous tax on my damage to switch specs rn in raid

and everyone likes to think that they're a multi spec or multi class player

but 99% of the time that just means their shite at everything

[runic hinge]

this is me

[cursive frost]

I "can play" all three specs, but just looking at logs its clear i am surely a better sin player... most people have something they perform better at

[crisp pine]

I'm genuinely horrible at Sin
But I like it

[wind dune]

im just a dirty ol' otp.

[keen spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/bestie-besties-so-true-so-true-bestie-kirby-gif-25485425

[spice spire]

I read dirty ol top

[wind dune]

lmaooo for you i can make an exception

[spice spire]

[wind dune]

not to mention sub just does usually like 20k more st too so that widens the gap some more

[keen spruce]

well idk what level you play at. but if I lump you in with the general public that i've observed

[cursive frost]

lol my sub set sims 18k higher than my sin set and i still run sin except on volc (which is a meme anyway) and smoldy

[keen spruce]

I'd say that's not guaranteed

[wind dune]

it may be the right choice for many to swap but I can assure you i'd be tanking the raid/dungeon hitting that Specialization tab

[crisp pine]

Make an alt and learn from the beginning

[wind dune]

I just truly enjoy sin Ive tried the other specs just dont enjoy them tbhh

[crisp pine]

Don't have to first time sub in your +28

[wind dune]

yes i tried playing sub in shadowlands

[spice spire]

Maybe you don’t but I’m different

[wind dune]

And outlaw was just a fake effort

[crisp pine]

I'm a windwalker main at heart
But yellow looks cooler

[spice spire]

I’m sorry

[keen spruce]

WW kinda cranking in m+ rn

[spice spire]

You deserve better

[keen spruce]

[cursive frost]

ww deserves a complete overhaul

[keen spruce]

WW need jesus

[spice spire]

WW deserves the enhancement treatment

Where it was dogshit for like

Ever

[cursive frost]

dk deserves one too

[spice spire]

Then all of a sudden perma good

[crisp pine]

I honestly think that WoD HFC WW was the best class blizzard ever made

[spice spire]

Pause

We don’t do that here

[cursive frost]

lol at least frost

[crisp pine]

right next to Rogue with Burst of Speed

[keen spruce]

i need to poo can everyone wait for a few minutes i don't wanna miss any convo

[crisp pine]

Sure dude, text me when you're done

[spice spire]

You have a phone don’t you

[cursive frost]

slowmode initiate

[crisp pine]

lock it down boys

[spice spire]

I’ve literally not been on my PC since October

[crisp pine]

playing wow on your steam deck?

[shy pecan]

[spice spire]

Not playing wow

[crisp pine]

God I fucking wish I was you

[runic hinge]

just get on your phone

[keen spruce]

Imma be honest I forgot discord on phones existed

[crisp pine]

I need to get a steam deck and reroll DH
So I can bind dash to swiping up on the trackpad

[slate crown]

It's for the best.

[runic hinge]

90% of the time I'm in here I'm on my phone at work

[vestal wren]

kush alone did push the highest key level

[keen spruce]

My evoked tried downloading your KB timeline to track my kb so he could line up breath better

It did not work

[vestal wren]

so not entirely sure if highest key level is a good metric

[slate crown]

...? wat why how would that even work

[keen spruce]

He didn’t understand

I think he was just grabbing anything that said in on wago

Kb *

[slate crown]

lol

[keen spruce]

Title player btw

[slate crown]

I mean it would be simple enough just do a multi-target aura trigger on kb

without Own Only checked

and remaining duration < 5 or whatever

that's biggo tick time

[keen spruce]

We’re always in coms

[slate crown]

breath then

ez pz

[keen spruce]

I am his weak aura

Now

[crisp pine]

nah dude you're a pretty strong aura imo

[spice spire]

Shmeeps weak aura when

[slate crown]

https://tenor.com/view/look-at-me-look-im-the-captain-now-gif-16786069

[keen spruce]

Some random resto Druid yesterday asked me when my peepo wa pack is gonna be updated

[spice spire]

Yeah it was me

[keen spruce]

[slate crown]

In M+ I don't think you have to track as much if you just assume everyone uses CD on CD it'll all line up

and your ebon hits everyone anyways

in raid it's more complicated, but essentially yes, you need WAs to watch for other people casting majors

[keen spruce]

The only thing you’re tracking is major cds on dps to line up with breath

Otherwise just maximize uptime

And try not to die to one shots

[woeful meteor]

@balmy condor Evis Strong

[vestal wren]

lol

[spice spire]

Yellowr

[vestal wren]

undercover outlaw player

[grim tangle]

rude

[wind dune]

Good point for sure but theres still a reason they are using law and sub in higher keys. sin just doesnt live as easy as those 2 and the damage profiles are better for m+ but thats not really the discussion we were having

[royal lantern]

not really

most of the time you watch the same couple people

[wind dune]

anaways thanks for the talk man hope your day goes good 😄

[royal lantern]

and you dont REALLY watch them much

[vestal wren]

most "max keys" on sub would be 2-3 key levels lower

[royal lantern]

like, stuff is assinged anyway lol

[vestal wren]

if you reove kush

*remove

[wind dune]

Yea also good point man

[spring socket]

been away for 3 weeks weres 10k dps gone off my sims 😦

[crisp pine]

I took them

[vestal wren]

and i think this does kinda make the point of your argument mood

[crisp pine]

Fuck you

[spring socket]

charming

[crisp pine]

<3

[vestal wren]

sin does depend on pulls, so i agree that it depends on pulls

sub is bad on low target cleave and sustained aoe, so also something you need to play around

but has the benefit of more dynamic with cooldowns

[wind dune]

Yea but you get alot more room to make things happen with shadowdust, no?

or do i not understand it as much

[vestal wren]

if you watch any of the higher sub players in m+

[wind dune]

ah you just said what i asked

[lucid silo]

I wish sub had less buttons

[vestal wren]

they essentially compress cooldowns

[lucid silo]

Actually I wish rogue had less buttons

[vestal wren]

so you can have damage compressed at specific times, can adjust to pulls with it too

if you look at damage, sub is not shooting up straight at the pull

but can chain cooldowns together with vanish to have strong output

[keen spruce]

i have to duplicate spells on my bars to to avoid swiss cheese

[lucid silo]

Screenshot?

[keen spruce]

in raid at least

[lucid silo]

Are they actually the same ability

[keen spruce]

yeah i just dragged in from my spellbook twice

[slate crown]

Why not just have swiss cheese

[keen spruce]

idk

this looks nicer

[lucid silo]

I think Swiss cheese would be better imo

[keen spruce]

well it's all shift modifiers

for the same button

[lucid silo]

Oh okay

Different I'll allow it

[keen spruce]

so there is technically some utility in not fcking that up for some reason

[spice spire]

@keen spruce seek help bestie

[keen spruce]

but that's not why i did it

[runic hinge]

Bro your keybinds are wack

[keen spruce]

it just kinda worked out that way

[runic hinge]

I'm judging you

[keen spruce]

my keybinds are certifiable

justifiable

scientific

[runic hinge]

mustifiable you musty biatch

[lucid silo]

I'm afraid to post my binds

[keen spruce]

we only keep you around to see stuart

[wind dune]

So kinda like sin now subs vanish is mainly just for damage now, interesting. Appreciate the talk though like i said Ill be here all day talking if I dont excuse myself. Have a good day man

[keen spruce]

u stinky bish

[runic hinge]

believable

[spice spire]

Dog?

[slate crown]

Scientific to have such a high real estate button of 4 for an ability you press once per fight and once per dungeon?

[runic hinge]

No, he's a parrot

[woven frost]

It seems to be working well for Schmeeps. He’s crushing in M+. No judgment here.

[spice spire]

I judge him heavily

But that’s because I’m a hater

[keen spruce]

i used to think 4 was not a convenient keybind

and that's when i put snd there

many moons ago

and other specs don't have cttc

[vestal wren]

yes, but with more dynamic because you have 2 charges of it

[frail wasp]

How is 4 not convenient

[slate crown]

(Everyone has their preferences and this is ok)

[spice spire]

No it’s not

[woven frost]

Some people have small hands okay

[spice spire]

Just like me using 9 for kidney shot

Isn’t okay

[keen spruce]

[slate crown]

Ok that's just deranged

[frail wasp]

Yes it is, if you can reach 9

[lucid silo]

whos ready to roast my binds

[spice spire]

I can reach = brub

[frail wasp]

Then it's okay

[keen spruce]

i mean snd on 4 not okay, but make no mention of two kidney shot binds on my raid ST build

[slate crown]

I mean R is my KS button, as is Shift R

shift are is @focus macro for it

[lucid silo]

the binds of destiny

[woven frost]

I’m more concerned about that mouse down hole on the bottom row there

[slate crown]

so I can't judge for that

[keen spruce]

would you believe me

[spice spire]

I have many qualms so I just decided to hate

[keen spruce]

that I don't use focus

for m+ or raid

[slate crown]

Well

[keen spruce]

or mouseover

[slate crown]

I only said my focus button was shift R

I never said I use it

[keen spruce]

i'm a good ol click on nameplate to kick

[lucid silo]

i dont use focus macros at all

[keen spruce]

or yolo tab target

[lucid silo]

or mouseover

lol

[spice spire]

I tab kick

[lucid silo]

i prefer to complain about tab targeting mid pull

[keen spruce]

it's sometimes problamatic

[spice spire]

Amen

[slate crown]

I mean

[lucid silo]

i lose my mouse super often

[woven frost]

SCHMEEPS I DEFENDED YOUR UI AND YOU TELL ME YOU CLICK KICK 🤦🏽‍♀️

[frail wasp]

I mean which is more deranged

[lucid silo]

i would never be able to mouseover

[slate crown]

My casting is all mouseover, I use the mouseover casting as defualt for myself

[frail wasp]

9 for CC

[keen spruce]

some rise keys have been bricked because of bad tabbing to a volley

[slate crown]

And that, too, is sometimes problematic

[frail wasp]

Or 8 for a rotational spam aoe

[keen spruce]

or back clicking on nameplate

[spice spire]

That’s G for me

h is a cursed keybind

We don’t talk about H

[frail wasp]

On my uhdk I have epidemic on 8 🙂

[spice spire]

[tame tangle]

H is unsheath weapons for me lol

[frail wasp]

How is h cursed

Do you not use y, h or n for binds?

[spice spire]

H is er in keys for me

I use all

[frail wasp]

Noice

[spice spire]

I also use P

[tame tangle]

that’s fucked

[spice spire]

But there’s a reason for P

Brez/lust

So I’ll never fuck it up

[frail wasp]

Fair

[tame tangle]

fair

[lucid silo]

my hands are super scuffed i cant reach a lot of binds

[slate crown]

Anything to the right of T is only interface panel stuff, nothing rotational, never needed anything beyond T for rotation, easily have enough modifiers on everything to the left

[keen spruce]

I'm not a fking starcraft player

if you think im reaching over to H

you're outta your mind

[spice spire]

Weak willed

I literally have a P keybind

[keen spruce]

5tgv is the wall

of keybinds

nothing right of that used for combat

[frail wasp]

I use up to 9, and up to y/h/n for binds

And also shift 1-6, alt 1-4

[runic hinge]

I feel like this is as normie as it gets

[lucid silo]

wtf is vendetta

is that some pvp shit

[runic hinge]

ye

[slate crown]

I once believed SnD on 4 was wild. But I was not prepared for the insanity I was about to endure from the others. It's ok now, I believe in 4 SnD

[lucid silo]

does ambush need its own bind?

[frail wasp]

But why would you put snd on 4

[runic hinge]

That's just a macro I don't use anymore

[lucid silo]

i have SND on 5 but its my mmo mouse

[frail wasp]

That's diff

[keen spruce]

nothing about his offends me

[frail wasp]

I'm talking raw keyboard, snd on 4

[lucid silo]

i had snd on 5 before i got the mmo mouse

[spice spire]

I have snd on 3

[frail wasp]

[cerulean walrus]

Oh boy

He doesn’t know

[slate crown]

I already posted mine awhile ago, hasn't changed

[lucid silo]

rude

[cerulean walrus]

No I just think it’s funny

Means you didn’t play assassination before Dragonflight

[lucid silo]

i remember an old version of vendetta from like legion?

[cerulean walrus]

Yeah there you go

[lucid silo]

but i barely played rogue in legion

[runic hinge]

V for vanish gang

[runic hinge]

Oh wait, you were serious?

[cerulean walrus]

Yeah that’s why I thought it was funny

[lucid silo]

yes lol

this is the first time in a decade ive played an expansion for this long

and the last time i mained rogue was the first month or so of BFA before i couldnt stomache that garbo expansion anymore

[cerulean walrus]

You missed out on some banger raids then

[shy pecan]

Vendetta was kinda meh, yeah?

[frail wasp]

And the hilarity of corruptions

[cerulean walrus]

Yes

[shy pecan]

30% damage amp for 20 seconds

[cerulean walrus]

Vendetta was the biggest whatever cooldown

Actually

[shy pecan]

[cerulean walrus]

Adrenaline Rush still took it

But

[slate crown]

didn't it give like 60 energy over 3 seconds or something?

[shy pecan]

AR is definitely up there for meh CDs

[slate crown]

in addition to the damage

[cerulean walrus]

Iirc yeah

[shy pecan]

And yeah energy returns as well

[cerulean walrus]

Best thing to hit Assassination in BFA was the Shrouded Suffocation Azerite Power

Oh boy I still remember seeing questions in here every single day asking if stacking Shrouded Suffocation granted additional combo points

[shy pecan]

[cerulean walrus]

Every day

Multiple times per day

For two years

[slate crown]

Well

did it?

[lucid silo]

Pretty sure I played sub in bfa

That one talent was busted

[slate crown]

bfa is when I left for a couple years

[cerulean walrus]

N

[quiet oar]

Same

[spice spire]

Wod is when I left for

8 years

[quiet oar]

So you came back in SL

[spice spire]

Came back in 8.3

Really I left after throne prog

[cerulean walrus]

I missed all of WoD after Siege of Org for 13 months

Guess I didn’t miss much

[quiet oar]

Throne?

[cerulean walrus]

ToT

[spice spire]

Throne of thunder

I didn’t do siege

[cerulean walrus]

Siege was a banger

But my god

13 months bro

Of the same raid

[spice spire]

We got close to the same experience

[slate crown]

Idn I liked wod, I liked the legendary ring, I liked HFC, I liked Tanaan jungle, I didn't mind the garrison

[spice spire]

For 4 tiers in a row

[quiet oar]

But then you left in Mop

not Wod

Siege was really nice

Was also my first content

I started WoW at the end of ToT

I really like BRF

Such a banger Raid

[spice spire]

Banger?

I hardly know er.

[keen spruce]

[spice spire]

I’ll be here all week

[slate crown]

It's a consistent energy gain from that target

that's the gameplay difference

[storm forum]

We never run out of energy gain for it

Which is cool

And double KB ramp

Is sick

[cerulean walrus]

There it is

[spice spire]

We found the line

Also double lethal dose

[slate crown]

Well you don't really notice the KB ramp and LD

[cerulean walrus]

[slate crown]

that's just damage

[spice spire]

Yeah it’s more damage

Do you not have scrolling numbers

[storm forum]

You notice the KB ramp if you use notter's wa 🤔

[cerulean walrus]

I have scrolling numbers

[slate crown]

I mean as a differentiator

from just "+Damage%"

which was what bucket was talking about

[cerulean walrus]

Do YOU have scrolling numbers quake?

[slate crown]

So it's the same in that regard

I'm saying the difference is that it's an energy gain, the LD stacks and KB damage ramps are just the same as +Dmg from before

(From vendetta)

[spice spire]

No lmao what am I a nerd?

[cerulean walrus]

Yeah but you know what’s really fun? Watching your debuffs on the nameplate go from |————| to |———————|

[slate crown]

Also yah but like can you seriously see your damage numbers amidst the 400 separate damage events that are spewing out on screen during DM? I certainly can't 😛 I don't have an addon to separate the numbers

[cerulean walrus]

[cerulean walrus]

[slate crown]

true and real

[spice spire]

Maybe you can’t but I’m different

[cerulean walrus]

But they aren’t though

[spice spire]

One dare I say

Scales

[cerulean walrus]

SCALING

[slate crown]

Deathmark's energy gain is different from vendetta's, it's much more energy, and it's consistent energy over the course of the CD and not just a burst amount at the start

[storm forum]

Iirc, Vendetta didn't get extra energy until the azerite trait. It was just boring +30% ST for the longest time.

[cerulean walrus]

One rewards good gameplay

The other one is a fucking wet noodle

[slate crown]

Also, we can be nerds all day and boil things down to "they're all just + damage" yeah well everything else

is

[cerulean walrus]

Yeah true

[slate crown]

The fact that deathmark plays into the core of the class

matters

Which are dots

Rather than just a +dmg boost, which is lame conceptually

Even if both simply cause more damage to happen in the end

[royal lantern]

well yeha, but thats just more dmg 🤓

[cerulean walrus]

Adrenaline Rush and Deathmark are the same cause they both increase your damage output and grant additional energy

[royal lantern]

vendetta also gave energy btw

😄

[slate crown]

https://tenor.com/view/kitten-grumpy-cute-animals-gif-25236081

[cerulean walrus]

Yes I know

[royal lantern]

no you dont

[cerulean walrus]

I guess I don’t then

[slate crown]

I mean in terms of gameplate that's all this game is

[royal lantern]

👍

[slate crown]

Stack your cds on top of other cds

[cerulean walrus]

Tryan talking as if I haven’t played anything other than rogue for the last decade

[slate crown]

I think it matters conceptually if they design the cd to be different and thematically relevent in its mechanics

[cerulean walrus]

I only have one character

[slate crown]

even if at the end of the day it's all just +dmg in the end

Did deathmark take a ton of development time?

away from other development?

[spice spire]

It’s on GCD actually

So it is different gameplay wise

[slate crown]

And it's no gameplay change, but like, it makes the game more fun, in my opinion, which you don't have to share of course

[spice spire]

And to the pvp crowd

[cerulean walrus]

Shit he did it

[spice spire]

That was the end of the world

[slate crown]

who dat

[cerulean walrus]

He cracked the code

[royal lantern]

vendetta was on the gcd aswell

[cerulean walrus]

Bro minigame players?

[spice spire]

No it wasn’t

[cerulean walrus]

No it was not

[royal lantern]

it was

since bfa

[slate crown]

like battle pet players?

[cerulean walrus]

[spice spire]

It was not

[earnest remnant]

SL it was taken off gcd

[spice spire]

Yeah

[royal lantern]

lmao i forgot that

[cerulean walrus]

Yes there was a single xpac

[spice spire]

That was literally a whole stink in 10.0

[royal lantern]

mate

it was 10.0

even I didnt play assa there

[cerulean walrus]

I did

[spice spire]

95% of the time I’ve played before this tier in the last decade

[cerulean walrus]

For a whole

2 weeks

[spice spire]

I’m different

[royal lantern]

hi different

[slate crown]

This convo distracted me from my incredibly wise decision so thank you for delaying that

[cerulean walrus]

Yeah I’m agreeing with you

[royal lantern]

hi agreeing with you

[cerulean walrus]

Blizzard went on this weird GCD kick for BFA where they put nearly fucking everything on the GCD

[amber stream]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gaunt moat]

I'm at 20% speed now from gear.
I'm ZOOMIN

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/aliphobe-bunny-rabbit-running-running-in-circles-gif-21893441

[gaunt moat]

just get speed from good daggers 4head

[runic hinge]

What’s your mog look like

Gotta see if the mog matches the speed

[gaunt moat]

i always use latest sets

missing boots though

[runic hinge]

I wonder how close I am

[balmy condor]

Wrong spec

[woeful meteor]

played Sin 1 Raid after we had semi consistent p3s ran it down for 2 Hours and went back sub

[tawny geyser]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Z1Cv8TVXpkW4ncPH#fight=26&type=casts&view=timeline&source=124

What could be improved? It was progression kill, but still it's very bad.

[spice spire]

Working need a bit

But

[jaunty warren]

Does deathmark duplicate KB?

[split basin]

has anyone got that doc with the CD timings for certain bosses?

[runic hinge]

No

[runic hinge]

https://lorrgs.io

[dark token]

saw an assa rogue running this disgusting m+ build

skipping iron wire

[spice spire]

The propaganda

[quartz locust]

wonder if it was that dude that was in here brand new to rogue arguing with whispyr about buildcrafting

[sharp osprey]

that was silly

[quartz locust]

he wanted a single build good in mythic, raid and pvp lol

[keen spruce]

dropping MA and IW

[fleet pagoda]

I got called bad by a CE player because I was simming an item, and he subsequently told me I should be using branch+ashes are there genuinely CE players like this or was he just tryin' to gaslight me for this trinket? lol

[sharp osprey]

i didn't know people were playing double on use

[fleet pagoda]

i don't think anybody in this channel is

[quartz locust]

mainly a sub thing

[woeful meteor]

double on use

[sharp osprey]

idk what he was gaslighting you about

some people are rude tho that's just life

[gentle badger]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/486284970806083584/1165033412827037806/image.png

[fleet pagoda]

yeah true. it actually reinvigorated my interest in trying to join a proper mythic raid guild, having that interaction helps me get over this kind of imposter syndrome

[junior yoke]

hard times

[spice spire]

I love rawdogging a trinket and getting no real value

Pogchampion

[sharp osprey]

This tier is the first tier I’ve had a supportive raiding group

Just gotta find the right people it makes playing the game more enjoyable

[runic hinge]

Baby kb huge value

[fleet pagoda]

bosses won't know what hit them when mutilate's poppin off for 4k more for a few seconds

[balmy condor]

Yeh double on use is troll as hell

[cunning geyser]

can I not macro the cruel dreamcarver?

[runic hinge]

It is a one time kinda thing

[balmy condor]

I guess you could

But why would you

[cunning geyser]

to use it on cd?

[balmy condor]

Sounds like a waste

You’d just be overwriting the buff constantly

[cunning geyser]

fair, just seemed like an annoying thing to remember to press

[runic hinge]

It doesn’t fall off

!dagger

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1181335994256064623/dagger.webp

[balmy condor]

It even persists through logout

[sharp osprey]

U don’t have to remember to press it

[runic hinge]

I think it even remembers if you unequip

[cunning geyser]

ah okay so basically use it once and forget

[balmy condor]

Ye

[cunning geyser]

fair

[balmy condor]

Typically a dragon or a target dummy

[sharp osprey]

is there a timer for the buff

[balmy condor]

Don’t think so

[winter gale]

Dance Build still way to go for raiding?

[gaunt moat]

No kill. best pull 10% 😔 (smold)

[winter gale]

U play assa on smolderon?

[balmy condor]

you have to play dance in all content on assa

[winter gale]

Ty!

[slim hamlet]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/486284970806083584/1165033412827037806/image.png

[quiet oar]

You can also say you play dance with all specs in all content

[balmy condor]

I very rarely make comments on stuff I don't know :)

[quiet oar]

Fair

[spark scaffold]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[royal python]

Does the dreamcarver speed buff option not show up as increase in speed stat ?

[balmy condor]

wouldn't think so

[lean portal]

i know this is your fault

you forced him to play CT

[spice iron]

Is assa performing well on the last 2 or should always consider going sub for it?

[woeful meteor]

Last 2 are still pretty good for sin

[balmy condor]

assa/sub are basically neck and neck

[static glacier]

We factoring in non pi sin?

I think the opportunity cost of getting pi is massively under considered when judging specs

[balmy condor]

okay

[static glacier]

Sin is my favourite spec, but if it’s neck and neck with sub with pi then we’re like 10k dps behind in reality

[runic hinge]

Just get pi???

[balmy condor]

okay

[static glacier]

Just ignore the fact we take 10k dps from the bm then?

[runic hinge]

Yes. Hunters are bad people and bad players

[static glacier]

[plucky canopy]

Unfortunately I does not memorise it, but u can just quick hit a target dummy to get it back

[runic hinge]

It’s also like 50 dps difference between the specs with pi

[static glacier]

Yes, but I’m not comparing sin with pi + no pi bm vs pi bm and no pi sin

I’m comparing pi sin + no pi bm to pi bm and no pi sub

[balmy condor]

I can't wait for us to not be a pi spec anymore

[static glacier]

Cringe spell, pray it gets removed

[balmy condor]

if only so that we don't have the same 3 soul draining conversations every 2 hours

[plucky canopy]

Please asap

[balmy condor]

like some hallmark christmas channel

could give less of a fuck about the dps

[bright cipher]

pretty terrible right?

[balmy condor]

I just don't want to keep rehashing the same dumb shit

every

fucking

day

over

[plucky canopy]

And never ever be a PI target again

[balmy condor]

and

over

and

over

and

over

[runic hinge]

They’ll just start talking about SnD and Acro position instead

[balmy condor]

that's fine

I'd prefer that

[bright cipher]

like, no joke whispyr, Demo no longer being a PI spec have been a blessing for us

[balmy condor]

complaining about snd and acro positioning you just point and laugh and go haha stupid

people trying to argue how to fit a jenga piece worth 0.2% of the raids dps

is actively the most exhausting thing

I have ever had to deal with in this god forsaken discord

[static glacier]

Bro

Your whole job is fitting 0.1-2% raid dps optimisations for the spec

Litterally TC job

[balmy condor]

who's paying me to tc

name one person

[static glacier]

I’ll pay you rn if you like

[balmy condor]

my job is to teach people how to play better

I theorycraft because I fucking feel like it

don't you ever think theorycrafters get paid to do shit

[static glacier]

When I say job perhaps I should have said shtick or role

Didn’t intend to mean you’re on a salary

My point is the optimisations are expected by rls and guildmates

[balmy condor]

and they can eat shit

[static glacier]

I agree it probably won’t change any outcomes

But it’s a slippery slope, first it’s the sweaty pi shit, then spec choice - eventually we can justify doing almost anything suboptimally since we’re ultimately 1/16th or so of raid dps

[balmy condor]

and yet people at the highest end of the game do it all the time for no reason

and they're still doing fine

[static glacier]

Trashy mid-range guilds use every crutch they can to make up for lack of skill

Mine included

[balmy condor]

then fucking play sub

if you think that choice is a crutch to help your mid range guild

do it

you don't need my opinion for that

[static glacier]

Aight, never meant to annoy you. Night gents

[bright turret]

Doing a few less % boss damage as sin won't be the thing that stops you from killing the last 2 bosses

A happy sin rogue will outperform an unhappy sub rogue

[karmic crypt]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[bright turret]

And odds are if you don't like sub, you won't be playing it perfectly to capture that slight increse in boss damage

[wicked valve]

is tepid vers still the go to flask for raid?

[balmy condor]

nop

always iced corruption

[storm monolith]

Damn did things get heated?

[storm monolith]

I'm proud to announce btw that after some much needed prescriptions of "Getdafuqoveryerself" I have adjusted how I am doing damage and can now consistently do 15s

[balmy condor]

love to hear it

[storm monolith]

I tried a 17 though and got stomped lmao

Need to get some better gear before I can do those. 463 ain't cutting it

[runic hinge]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/486284970806083584/1165033412827037806/image.png

[royal python]

Are neck simulations bugged? Any neck i simulate (gemmed all three) sim about 10k less

[spice surge]

Youre probably missing something, feel free to link the sim

[gilded oasis]

im missing a brain

[balmy condor]

I miss my moms third husband

[gilded oasis]

I do too

[balmy condor]

[royal python]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iR3JLdmGrpJKVoSbVpEmbj
link to an example sim

i've kept the gems same as i have on my existing neck, just upped the ilvl from 483 to 489

[woeful meteor]

it's a different neck

it's the cata version that has strength on it

and less secondaries

[royal python]

ah ok

thnx thnx

[slim hamlet]

damn

[runic hinge]

Who tryna be fourth

[violet tiger]

hey I am looking to get better at rogue can anyone help me heres my logs
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yk9w43mqgWjVNLBP#fight=24&type=damage-done

[haughty lily]

when u need to kb and u have dm+branch up are u supposed to mutilate to max evenom so its able to buff the kb? cause when its at 4cp sometimes it just misses when i pop kb

[tough geode]

Hello folks.
Is there a Weakaura for the balls from the trinket from whiterbark? Or would you have a tip for me on how I can recognise them better and therefore play them optimally

[vast loom]

make an L with your movement

to grab 2

[tough geode]

Holy, it's so simple. Thanks alot.

Didn't think about it, haha

[vast loom]

make sure you get your 3rd before the 1st 2 drop

i time it around the time i do my 2nd shiv

[spice spire]

Amount of cp doesn’t matter on missing. You just want to max envenom uptime. 4+ is fine

[haughty lily]

ok so its not like mega essential to have it up before kb

ty

[spice spire]

I mean it is. You just don’t have to max CP it is all, just follow the normal rules. Sorry it’s been a long day! Words hard

[haughty lily]

but when i have 4cp sometimes the envenom isnt able to buff kb from the extra gcd from branch and trinket im off my like .05 seconds i feel like

[spice spire]

Bring me the logs

(Just to make sure at this point, it could just be a small sequencing thing)

[balmy condor]

whats the .05 seconds?

[spice spire]

That’s what I’m trying to figure out

[balmy condor]

envenom not chaining?

[spice spire]

I’m guessing

[haughty lily]

one sec let me do a pull and ill send log

[spice spire]

Yep, thanks!

As long as it’s not another LD type thing

Had one earlier that was 0.015 off

[balmy condor]

I mean yeah

that's intended

[spice spire]

O

[balmy condor]

you can't get lethal dose on the last tick most times

and there's not really a good way around it

you end up wasting shiv time, deathmark time, shadow dance time, kingsbane ramp

[spice spire]

There’s cases where it just works though

Idk I’m finding things like just not hitting the GCD on the GCD fixes it. But that also fucks up the dance by a certain time unless you’re an omega god gamer

[balmy condor]

the kb is 2 seconds after dm, so it's variable based on network delay on which drops technically

but it shouldn't really be possible

like by raw technicality, it should be possible to just 2 second 16-2 = 14

makes sense

14 =14

[thorn lynx]

Sub main is speaking

[balmy condor]

but that's not really how gcds work

[thorn lynx]

EVERYONE LISTEN

[balmy condor]

you're gonna have a slight delay

and there's nothing to be done about it

only way around it is to just queue up the spell and hope that the networking rng is good

[arctic socket]

So it’s shiv vanish dance kb snd right?

[spice spire]

Tbh just luck better

[spice spire]

I’m gonna end you I swear

[balmy condor]

here's the real cursed shit

[arctic socket]

[balmy condor]

you COULD move the shiv out of the way

it's technically worse

because you lose timing

but like in theory you could just dm kb shiv

[fallow canopy]

smoldy down!

[balmy condor]

or shiv dm kb

[fallow canopy]

tindral seems insane

[balmy condor]

either way though shits fucked

[arctic socket]

Thistle.Shiv vanish poisoned knife, dance, kb?

What’s the knife throwing ability called

Lmao

Uh

[spice spire]

Poison knife

Pk bozo

[arctic socket]

Seems like a solid opener

Don’t forget to ask for pi

[spice spire]

This is the worst opener I’ve ever seen

And I lived through Navi

[arctic socket]

Flash back huh

Who remembers razor coral?

[spice spire]

I remember farming for it in 8.3

Because I didn’t play 8.2

[haughty lily]

pips is still bis right? im not crazy? or sandglass better?

_< i would sim but but they are distrubuting loot and telling me its not my bis and i dont have time lol

[fleet pagoda]

pips usually has higher value in m+ if you do a lot of that. otherwise I'd just sim it

[spice spire]

What they said pips good all arounder but hourglass real good in raid but every profile differs so quick sinner

[runic hinge]

This is why you droptimizer before raid

[haughty lily]

rip ur right non upgrade for st, only for dungeon cleave. how depressing

lesson learned x.x

[green apex]

Did you know that the Blobs can melee you during phase transition 🙂

😦

[keen spruce]

[runic hinge]

You’re not a very good outlaw rogue. You should give up.

[brazen zodiac]

: O

[fleet pagoda]

yeah i stay miles away from those now lol

[raven egret]

Smolderon prog is so much... fun... /s

[keen spruce]

that's what i keep tellin

my friends

but then

vs

[gusty mirage]

[runic hinge]

Just don’t do it

[pine orbit]

i still have a WA for that tho if youd like

[stiff ferry]

I've been looking through the chat for a while and can't figure out for the life of me how my average kingsbane is around 1.5mil~ but during the last boss of BRH i hit a 4mil kingsbane

I didn't do anythign differently and am just confused

I've once spiked to 3 mil in heroic raid, forget which boss I think igira, and i just did the usual

[eternal nymph]

You get a damage amp on the last boss

[stiff ferry]

does kingsbane dmg fluctuate a lot? like ive seen 2.3m during AD trash once

and i don't know what happened

[eternal nymph]

It's always down to RNG to some degree.
Whether or not you get crits on the end. Or if sophic/wafting procs during it. Or how many autos actually hit and apply poisons, etc.

[stiff ferry]

right

[eternal nymph]

And it can also obviously be that you sometimes fuck up your envenom and shiv uptime, or that you mistime tea, etc.

[stiff ferry]

i get the fluctuate from like 1.3 to 1.5 mil but after seeing a random 2mil+ i thought i was doing soething bad

i have been snapping tea and vanish

on a test dummy for a while now

and cant seem to get over 1.5 mil

so i guess, chance?

either way, thank you

[slate crown]

!wa in the LE profile link gives you a timer for the orbs and such, but yeah just make an L with movement

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[pearl frigate]

i am looking for weakauras code for rouge assasin, anyone share me please

[slate crown]

!wa take your pick, many options here

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[pearl frigate]

i am not good at english so i really need help

can you share me please?

[slate crown]

The messages immediately above, they are links to Weakaura Package pages on the Weakauras Website.

Those pages have the Share Codes in them.

[pearl frigate]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[pearl frigate]

thank you i gete it

[arctic hare]

What is the PPM of Pip's?

[opaque iron]

!ss

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gaunt moat]

On smolderon, does using cloak before taking tank soak, do you still get absorb shield?

[balmy condor]

I believe so

[quiet oar]

Yes afaik

But you want to Cloak for Intermissions

To max out DPS

But you can feint it to get less dmg

[keen spruce]

you still get the absorb ye

[quiet oar]

But if you use Feint, your Healers might ignore you

[gaunt moat]

It's possible to cloak first intermission
then health pot next soak
then cloak 3rd soak
then cloak enrage

but the question is when should i cloak, before soak or after soak

or it doesn't even matter

(and you don't need cloak for 3rd intermission, the pattern is always melee friendly)

[slim hamlet]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/486284970806083584/1165033412827037806/image.png

[quiet oar]

Oh wait, i know why every intermission worked out for me

I was sub and Cloak got reduced by dust

mb

[gaunt moat]

https://tenor.com/view/get-the-fuck-out-gtfo-get-out-go-away-gif-8055436

[quiet oar]

I would say cloak after soak

and Feint the soak itself

So you dont get hit by waves

[gaunt moat]

yeah that makes sense

[quiet oar]

Because Heal Absorb plus Waves could end lethal

[gaunt moat]

Also, I had a 9m Kingsbane in 3rd intermission
but wiped after

[storm forum]

I was thinking about prepping sub for smolderon (next boss for my guild) but the last time I played sub in a raid, my guild disbanded so idk if I wanna risk it.

[quiet oar]

Tbh

Sub is payphone there

Becuase outside Intermissions DMG doesnt matter much

[storm forum]

I would need to learn how to play sub though

And then watch my guild disband

[gaunt moat]

smolderon damage profile be like

[quiet oar]

You just need to looks at CD usage and have a combat timer

[quiet oar]

Are you happy to see me or is that normal?

[gaunt moat]

lol wait that wasn't even the 9m one

lol

[storm forum]

Wowee

[quiet oar]

9 M, that has to be a lot of crits

Can you look

[gaunt moat]

let's see

[quiet oar]

at the crits

[gaunt moat]

pretty sure i had aug buff too, but need to check

yeah, had presience and ebon might on me

no PI

also wafting proc'd

[slim hamlet]

no PI 💀

[quiet oar]

No PI

[gaunt moat]

And 60% of the time pip's mastery

[slim hamlet]

why even play the spec

[quiet oar]

I mean

Notter is an Honorable OTP

he sticks to sin

no matter what

[slim hamlet]

crazy how fast everyone switched to sub after the 3% nerf

bloodmallet PI sim killed 90% of the sin playerbase

xdd

[gaunt moat]

is this new?

[quiet oar]

90% crit KB

You won the lottery

but your Guild failed to finish the Boss off?

on that one