assassination

[dark token]

And they tuned the amp to make it less

[static glacier]

Is it better to ct 5/7 targets a finisher early or ct 7/7 2 globals later

I thought we ct once we can hit stuff

Might be wrong

[limber lion]

Again

If you have 4+ targets that you can hit

it's always better to CT early

[dark token]

Even in single target, let's say you have a boss and then 3 trash adds you legit don't care about, I think it's worth to CT

Because dmg amp makes it higher than rupture on a single target

[limber lion]

You might not want to reapply the CT once the 2 targets join the battle a few seconds later

and just reapply CT whenever it's in pandemic as you normally would

but if you have 4+ targets, it's worth it

[dark token]

I use that rule for new adds too

4+ new add? Apply it early again

2 adds run in? Wait for pandemic

[fleet pagoda]

240ish I guess

[left sundial]

minimum energy for tea usage?

[limber lion]

as high as possible without messing up your Envenom chains or pandemic bleeds

[left sundial]

im waiting 100

[limber lion]

you always want to get 100 energy from tea

except the first tea that you use together with KB

Just use tea whenever KB has less than 6s remaining and you're chilling

you should be spamming buttons during KB windows anyways so that'll be as low as your energy will go

And the 2 charges that you have outside of KB just use for energy

[left sundial]

No ceverion i mean outside burst

envenom chains

[limber lion]

Yes

[left sundial]

save 1 tea for burst

[limber lion]

Yes

[left sundial]

otherwise if chain brokes use at 100 energy

[limber lion]

No

[static glacier]

@limber lion ngl guide kinda places it low

[left sundial]

Without tea pool until 240ish

[static glacier]

Compared to its real value

[limber lion]

My guy literally please read the conversation before you comment my guy

I jsut sent you like 5 sims that show you that CT is better than Rupture

And the guide might be slightly outdated

[static glacier]

Yes, and we’ve been informed by this

[limber lion]

and the guide writer himself has said that it's possible that CT earlier is better than Ruptures

[static glacier]

I agree with you

The guide underrepresents CT’s value

[limber lion]

It does

[limber lion]

.

We've known this for a while

and I did these sims today

[static glacier]

Question would be what changed since initial sims for the guide

[limber lion]

I can assure you that the guide will be updated soon once we're done with the sims

[limber lion]

Well Kingsbane for one does 15% less damage

so that's less value on Spatter

[static glacier]

Thing is ct would generally be replacing a rupture cast, either the second or third

[limber lion]

That is true

By using CT as the first finisher, it delays the entire Spatter chain that happens after

but it's showing up as a gain to do so

idk what to tell you other than the 5 sims I've sent

If you have ideas for what fight lengths/target counts or whatever you want the sims for, let me know and I'll try to sim em

[dark token]

If packs don't live long enough you skip snd, skip one rupture, or skip the envenom before dm probably

Maybe multiple of those

[limber lion]

But so far I've tested everything from 4targets 20s to 8 targets 5 minutes

and CT first is always a gain

[dark token]

I'm curious at 20s it's probably skip envenom, skip snd, one rupture only for caustic, and dm right after

[limber lion]

Well without changing any other priority in the list

the sim currently does

CT first

then straight into Deathmark/KB window

Then Envenom during it

I mean shit

no

It depends on the fight length, but on shorter fights it prios Envenom over Rupture and Slice

to get the cds up and running asap

[dark token]

Yeah but you want 1 rupture minimum to proc caustic

Unless it applies it midway through dm?

[limber lion]

on longer fights it takes its time to get 1 Rupture up first, then Slice, then secondary Ruptures

Then goes into CDS with Envenom

[dark token]

Only caustic the last half?

[limber lion]

So on longer fights it does CT Rup Slice Rup Rup Envenom

On shorter fights it does CT Envenom Rup Slice

Yeah so basically anything that is like 30s+ or more it does the first one

Because it has time to get everything up before going into cds

but on shorter fights it just does an accelerated version where it does rupture during the dm window

and slice during it

but again that's for the very first pack of a mythic+ dungeon anyways

[dark token]

I'm guessing for 20s, 5t opener it's probably like gar gar CT, deathmark shiv KB gar envenom, gar fok rupture, mut mut envenom, mut mut ct

[limber lion]

gets much easier when you have slice up already

[dark token]

Yeah

[limber lion]

Honestly

Thinking about it, the sim isn't optimized for very short encounters

Like in a normal mythic+ encounter if you have slice up and like 5cp ready, you would probably just do CT first

followed by Deathmark Shiv Dance KB Gar

Envenom

Gar

And just get your Garrotes up during the dance window

[dark token]

Ye but I tend to do opener garrotes just to silence and group stuff anyway

But that definitely sounds like the play if dh leads with sigil of silence or something

Which they often do

[static glacier]

I think ct contributes a lot to SD dmg breakdown

Compared to rupture

[limber lion]

It does

[static glacier]

It’s just more dmg per global

[limber lion]

Currently in the sims SD doesn't work at all

I'm pretty sure it would push the build quite a bit higher and would show even bigger gains for stuff like this

[dark token]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dbV9WiSgfNLQGppumdLtWi I started playing this build rather than cleave in high tyrannical or keys where I need st like rise/fall

Which is basically just cleave build but keep ct

People heavily underrate it

It sims higher overall than hybrid as well

[static glacier]

Dtb no amp seems sus

[dark token]

But mostly cause SD is not implemented

Amp is only envenom dmg

[fleet pagoda]

wouldn't that APL be not sending CT early?

[dark token]

Your tier set and regular poison proc dmg is the same

You don't care much about envenom dmg except on single target

So it's reasonable for keys

I would really like a good approximation of SD value in sims but it's hard

[sullen quest]

why is that hard/not functioning atm?

[dark token]

Because enemies don't have health in sims generally

[sullen quest]

it can't apply stealth bonuses for 6 seconds to you?

[dark token]

They just die at set times

[sullen quest]

ah

[dark token]

Well they have health for purposes of execute dmg

[sullen quest]

and reach execute hp at set times also I suppose?

[dark token]

Yes they linearly decrease in health

[limber lion]

Yeah it's just tied to time

[static glacier]

I think implementing it is difficult, idk if mdt sims would have it working

Despite their issues this might be a case where they could help

[limber lion]

wut

[static glacier]

Implementing SD is probably difficult

In simc

[limber lion]

Yes

What does mdt sims have anything to do with it

[static glacier]

If it’s more an issue with implementation in general nothing, if it’s a matter of needing mobs with Hp then maybe it woulda helped

Then again dslice has dying mobs so nvm

[limber lion]

Wut

MDT sims are literally nothing but custom routes for sims

they do not implement anythign to the sim

[pallid kite]

@limber lion should i CT more often or only when is about to expire

[limber lion]

It's just a line that says how many mobs are in the first encountera

and how many are in the next one

and so on

that's all

[sullen quest]

MDT sim is basically just stringing together a bunch of multi target patchwerk sims no

[limber lion]

MDT sims has nothing to do with actual simming

[limber lion]

Yes

[limber lion]

You maintain CT at all times in 4+ targets, do not spam it

[sullen quest]

Yeah that's feral druid

^^

[limber lion]

I still feel like Feral flows a bit better

[sullen quest]

I played feral from like 2005 till DF

[limber lion]

I think it comes from the reactive proc elements of the spec

[sullen quest]

I don't like the way it feels anymore

[pallid kite]

so should i go with this talents on that rotation for aoe

[sullen quest]

atleast in ST

[limber lion]

which we don't have at all

[sullen quest]

in AoE it feels fine

[limber lion]

yeah looks fine

[pallid kite]

is something that i could change

to look better?

or depends on my rotation

[sullen quest]

But I totally see your point

I feel like they've overdone it a bit with the reactive proc elements

[limber lion]

Yeah I like it in AoE for sure. Getting to AoE bite with free procs to maintain Sabertooth that increases our dot damage for a duration afterwards and so on

[sullen quest]

becomes a bit too spammy for my liking

[limber lion]

it all just flows so well

[sullen quest]

but yeah it does

[limber lion]

You do direct damage to all targets around you

which in turn buffs the dot damage

it's great

[limber lion]

Nah looks good

[pallid kite]

and for st what am i doing wrong

i garrote ambush rupture

at the beggining

then caustic shiv deathmark branch shadow dance and kings

[limber lion]

Like I said

You should probably read a guide or check out Whispyr's videos

You need to have Envenom up before you start sending cds

for one

[sullen quest]

the opener and prio sections of wowhead are pretty easy to follow imo

[limber lion]

Yeh Whispyr made a sexy job there

[runic hinge]

Same

Actually from 2005 to DF lol

[sullen quest]

SoO feral was bis

😍

[pallid kite]

every guide i tried to follow i end up doing bad dps =)))

english is not my 1st language

[royal lantern]

only there?

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/924436307202174976/1170474444624511078/giphy.gif?width=337&height=600

[pallid kite]

i tried a rotation similar from legion now

[limber lion]

Why??????????

Literally just read a guide and follow it

Why are you trying to figure out a rotation by yourself

This is literally the entire single target rotation section

This is literally all you need to know and do

Outside of this you just maintain Rupture and Garrote and pool and that's it.

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[pallid kite]

i do that

rotation

i do i think about exactly

but at some point i remained without energy

and i tea

but i didn't used shiv tea

till now

i'll do a fall 19 and share the logs eventually

[wet hare]

I have a quick question about the rotation, do we use first shiv before the kingsbane to prevent the little gap due to global cd if we used the shiv after the kingsbane right? So the debuff can be stay longer on the kingbane duration I guess

[limber lion]

If you use it before KB, you ensure 100% uptime on Shiv during KB

If you use it after KB, it's not 100% uptime

So yes

[sullen quest]

does KB tick immediately upon casting or only after 2s?

As in initial damage portion + first tick, or just initial?

[wet hare]

thank you so much♥️

[flint marsh]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/486284970806083584/1165033412827037806/image.png

[limber lion]

Just initial

So yeah technically you want Shiv to buff up the initial damage and not really the tick portion of it

[pallid kite]

this is WM 18 im drunk and i already know i messed up a lot but i tried to use CT frist before rupture

[limber lion]

the initial damage is kinda huge

[limber lion]

Looks better, Spatter and KB should be higher but otherwise looks ok

[storm monolith]

how many marks of honor are gained after a pvp match on average?

[pallid kite]

it is 139k overall..

[sullen quest]

there are so many variables

comparing numbers like this is futile

Tyra, low key level, dungeon differences, comp differences (ret/bm/havoc)

all these things combined make for a not so nice experience on assa

[feral mason]

don’t play assa on low keys honestly

hurts my soul

[sullen quest]

Certainly one where it's impossible to gauge performance just on numbers alone

[limber lion]

Yeah numbers don't say much

[feral mason]

deathmark incident

[sullen quest]

Stick to what you know you should be doing in what order/priority and judge yourself based on whether or not you're accurately following the prio

Even though that might be difficult

[limber lion]

Your overall will look a lot higher in Everbloom compared to something like Fall

[sullen quest]

fall

I hate fall

I hate fall this week*

[feral mason]

Outlaw key

Outside of first pack

[sullen quest]

Who thought it was a good idea to have 80% of the trash be non elites with no hp, and 15% teleport away and become unhittable without acrobatic

super fun

rise is even worse

all I want for christmas is baseline acrobatic strikes

[long leaf]

is there any recommended youtube channel that occasionally upload m+ videos?

[storm monolith]

I'M GLAD YOU ASKED

because i don't know

whispyr has a channel though, he makes some pretty solid guides on how aoe and st works, and the why's

[sullen quest]

You know what my favorite thing abotu farming fall is

Getting every single piece of loot on the loot table but dagger or trinket

regularly

[quiet oar]

!oh

[prisma monolith]

Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.

[pure sail]

Zerocool

[long leaf]

[lament sequoia]

Lmfaoooo yes. I love (hate) that.

[halcyon arch]

You just need to farm it more🥳

[sullen quest]

can only farm as fast as I'm receiving invites

[crisp pine]

Just get invited lol

[sweet dawn]

When you're running falls for the dagger and you get into a group that takes forever to start... turns out they have a rise

You don't wanna leave cus it's a dick move

AND you're basically boosting a 460 guy through a 20

Karma got my back though, next fall gave me the dagger

[clever sapphire]

first thing when joining a fall/rise is that i type /key in chat

to check their key

xD

[sweet dawn]

Weird thing is the lead had an 18 fall

someone just put a 20 rise in

[winged sun]

Thats where u leave and tell him dont list an 18 fall next time

[sullen quest]

oooooh

because if theyre not paying attention you don't find out till its started huh

that's a rough one

[river cipher]

💤

[quiet oar]

You want to see something sad

What happened in a 20 BRH

[winged sun]

what

[stray mural]

This but I got my second dagger out of being patient

[wild birch]

Is envenom pandemic timer under 1s or 2s?

[limber lion]

It's 30% of the applied duration

So if 4cp is 4s, it's 30% of that

1.2s is the lowest, 1.5s is 5cp

[wild birch]

So if you pandemic a 6cp envenom that was 8s it's 2.4s?

[north flax]

Picked up assa rogue as an alt. Feeling quite energy starved during boss encounters. Bursting is fine and I think my opener and such is fine, but I feel like I'm losing DPS 'cuz of the energy. I mean, feels like Im doing something wrong.. 😛

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/character/eu/tarren-mill/shortbombs/

my character.

[wild birch]

Do you pool?

[north flax]

Pool? I'm putting up my dots, casting deathmark and then entering kingsbane, during these cooldowns Im also using a tea. When the cooldowns are down Im just mutilate and refreshing garrote and rupture then keeping the 4set active by using envenom.

Should I stop doing anything for sometime to get more than 50% energy or?

[wild birch]

You slamdance on your buttons during kb windows, but then you just refresh dots and envenom during pandemic only, unless you have too much energy

Do you just refresh envenom regardless of it's timer?

[north flax]

yup

Building CP and then throwing envenom

[wild birch]

That's why you're energy starved

[vestal wagon]

you do the opener, then pool/maintain until next go step, right/

?

[wild birch]

Yep

[north flax]

oh, so you want to envenom when the timer is about to fall off?

[wild birch]

Outside KB window, yeah

[vestal wagon]

only be refreshing debuffs

from my understanding, i am literally learning how to do this now myself, havent touched Assa for like 2 xpacs

[north flax]

Oh, alright. I'm going to try it, cheers1 🙂

cheers!*

[vestal wagon]

it looks complicated, but its just because of how many buttons there are

[wild birch]

@north flax If at any point you drop envenom buff, you pool your energy to around 80% and start new envenom chain then

[vestal wagon]

do you use your pot on pull, or when you go to enter KB?

[north flax]

when I enter KB

[north flax]

Fair enough, ty 🙂

[wild birch]

It's prob a good idea for you to watch Whispyr's video about Pooling and KB windows

They will explain everything you need to know

[north flax]

where can I find them? 😄

[wild birch]

Youtube

[trail siren]

hey long time feral just messing around with assas do I just keep up envenom debuff in between kingsbane windows

feels like I do negative dps outside of cds

[wild birch]

Keep up DoTs, keep up envenom buff for your 4p

[sullen quest]

[wild birch]

gz

[vestal wagon]

should KB be the top dmg ability in pulls?

[wild birch]

In raid?

[sullen quest]

"in pulls"

[vestal wagon]

boss

[sullen quest]

that's not what a pull means

[vestal wagon]

in a boss fight, KB should be top ability right?

[wild birch]

No, envenom+tier

[sullen quest]

kingsbane should be like

4-5th?

[sullen quest]

you can always just run a quick sim to see the damage breakdown

that should g ive you a rough estimate of what your breakdown should look like

[vestal wagon]

ok thanks

i dont even have full set yet, im finishing this raid so i dont waste charges

so im just trying to know in advance

[wild birch]

Well, my KB is around 15% of my dmg

Quicksim says the same

[fresh blaze]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[sullen quest]

but also I feel like this information isn't really important , better to go over what the priority is and just work up to executing that properly step by step

while you slowly improve (read: develop muscle memory)

[naive wren]

why is there so many rogues using ashes over branch when branch sims higher? is branch just sim bait or what

[woeful meteor]

collecting orbs annoying

[balmy condor]

yeh

ends up being literally just "they don't want to"

[sullen quest]

orb trinket 🤮

[proven jasper]

Orb trinket goated

💤

[clever sapphire]

comfort over sim dps

[naive wren]

makes sense, thanks

[slate crown]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[slate crown]

!pandemic - the previous envenom’s CP are irrelevant, all that matters is A) current CP and B) current duration on the buff. My envenom bar has an option to move the pandemic tick to true pandemic as CP move, can find in LE’s profile. If you are asking because you’re making an aura, and you are making an icon aura with a glow instead of a tick mark , you’d need to use conditions with a 6-part “Any of” set for each CP.

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[slate crown]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[wild birch]

Nah, not making/using anything. Just want to know the best time to refresh, so it's either 1.2s/1.5s/2s depending on which CP you landed before. Thanks :)

[slate crown]

1.8 is the max carry over (6 * 0.3) for Envenom, unless you are using TTK.

(Which makes it 2.4)

But yes, shifts around based on CP you land on

[keen spruce]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1082501200785715282/1189001948330995793/image.png?ex=659c935b&is=658a1e5b&hm=f8a28743836a8c010c2a8fec61d95521c8ff1d7a10f895ffb619c58a860685ed&

finally

[quiet oar]

Congrats

[woeful meteor]

3,3k rio certified menace now

[keen spruce]

[quiet oar]

Mean while

My pug healers for my surv hunt

Cant even heal 2nd and 3 rd Boss in fall

[keen spruce]

I was acutally "finallly"ing

the 25 rise

[quiet oar]

In 18

[keen spruce]

cuz i've been on a 22 for like 4 weeks

on tyran

[keen spruce]

18s are rough

[quiet oar]

Even tho 20

[keen spruce]

well it depends sometimes you just find crest farmers

and it's fine

but like

keys down in gen pop

are way harder

than like 22-24

[quiet oar]

You want to See something funny

Im the Tank

Was brh 20

Still +2

[keen spruce]

[quiet oar]

That avoker

[keen spruce]

to be fair

that warlock is only 463

[quiet oar]

Had 2.7j

[keen spruce]

so he's not gonna do any damage

[quiet oar]

Rii

[keen spruce]

[quiet oar]

Wdym

I did 240k with my 456 wl

In brh

[keen spruce]

idk how much damage undergeared demo locksa re supposed to do

I'm an aff enjoyer

so we never do damage

with or without gear

[quiet oar]

Just use inplosion

But Yeah

18-20s is now the range

Where you need to watch out

[feral mason]

Demo can easily do 250-300k with that gear if tank does the proper brh pulls

aug woofer aswell though

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[feral mason]

made a prot pala alt last few days

Rogue i usually compete with for score rerolled

Gotta assert dominance (most likely failing miserably because i suck at tanking)

[static hedge]

!dagger

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1181335994256064623/dagger.webp

[opaque iron]

!spreadsheet

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dusty lance]

I have a Cook okay hear me out. during stealth and a few secs after Crimson tempest just also applies rupture and garrote 🙂

[balmy condor]

awful cook

also really unoriginal

[dusty lance]

it's okay im not a rogue main I just hate going into a pack and having to press bleeds over and over

[balmy condor]

then don't play the spec where the core rotation is pressing bleeds over and over?

[dusty lance]

just for it to die b4 I can actually start pressing stuff 😦

I really enjoy the shadow dance kingsbane windows and such

[balmy condor]

then play the cleave build and do that instead of multidotting all the time

[dusty lance]

perhaps ill look into it

[gray hazel]

You guys still going to run the cleave build for fort weeks on 23+?

[storm forum]

Probably depends on the key for me. Important lieutenants like Fall and Rise? Cleave probably. Big gauntlet pulls like Throne and BRH? Maybe I play something with CT.

[junior yoke]

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

[past forum]

I had some thing to say but accidentally posted a recipe instead

Fuck lol

Ironically the message had the word cook in it

[neat plank]

for me there's only the cleave build, no reason to ever play anything else

[native heron]

Can you share the cleave build :)?

[shy pecan]

It's just the raid build but you drop dashing scoundrel for IC

[native heron]

ahhhh roger

[neat plank]

BMQAcWb37Z8KXj8LlE1rTPXfsFJJhIBAAAAAAIlkIlkAAAAAAAtWSCSgkkSaREREJJJRSrViEA

[lament belfry]

why is nick of time bis for offhand?

[balmy condor]

same stats as a normal dagger would be, but with extra timestrike

[junior yoke]

Share your vaults

I want to re-check how unlucky I am

[indigo mulch]

Imagian getting a nick of time from vault

[junior yoke]

Imagine geting a branch after 48 runs in the season

[indigo mulch]

[jade hedge]

There is people with 2 dagger from vault im sure

[indigo mulch]

Of course there are 😄

[junior yoke]

I mean 😂😂 of course there are

[fervent nacelle]

should i be avoiding putting between the eyes on cd by using it out of stealth? the wow head guide says it can be used out of stealth but thats a long ass cd

[junior yoke]

Wrong channel I think

[fervent nacelle]

sry

[indigo mulch]

You prob should go to the #outlaw cahnnel for that

😄

[junior yoke]

❤️

[fervent nacelle]

yea i was asking assass questions here before and forgot to move

ta

[bleak plume]

is dungeon slice on raidbots accurate for assa?

[sullen quest]

yes

I mean accurate is a bit of a vague term

But it functions, which I assume you mean

Since it doesn't at all for some specs

[balmy condor]

dungeonslice is accurate for assassination as a synthetic situation

dungeonslice is not accurate to an actual dungeon

[sullen quest]

yeah that's a good way to put it

essentially what I mean

[balmy condor]

explaining the same thing 357 thousand times

you eventually learn how to express the concept

[sullen quest]

[arctic socket]

[night crag]

gz

[arctic socket]

I wanted mog not the mount

[spice spire]

Fake

[bleak plume]

thanks

[arctic socket]

You’re fake

[spice spire]

Nah I’m real bozo

[south olive]

noob question for spiteful week as assa (my first time) since you can't restealth for garrote/rupture spreading should i use SD/Vanish as ways to restealth at the start of packs instead of the usual way?

[daring comet]

I guess its better to just go into pack straight with cds

[south olive]

and just pray for caustic to do some heavy lifting w/ 4p?

[daring comet]

That's what i do

[south olive]

sounds good boss

thanks

[spice spire]

Yeah

There’s nuance to the answer but the short answer is yeah

[south olive]

thank you !

yeah i feel there's a lot to learn but it's my second day on the class fishdjdh starting small

[arctic socket]

Respec to outlaw, live by blade flurry

[winged sun]

We lose just as much from restealth

Arguable more but i didnt play assa to know

[royal lantern]

isnt Outlaw losing MORE then assa rn

or like

forna long time

[winged sun]

Zac said that we do lose more

We lose real dps from bladeflurrying spiteful

[royal lantern]

assa is litearlly only garrote dmg, cus carnage can be used with dance/vanish anyway

and garrote is not 99% of your aoe dmg like people always act it is lol

[winged sun]

We’re capped and we lose precise cuts value

I’d say it cuts real dps quite alot from outlaw

[spice spire]

False

[spice spire]

Outlaw loses more

[clever sapphire]

Outlaw was already worse during spiteful before the rework, and it didnt change since then

[royal lantern]

^

[winged sun]

Now restealth is like

30% of our dmg (counting the lose dps from spiteful too)

Just a wild guess

[winged sun]

From a single pack

[winged sun]

But the longer the pack lives the lower this value is ofcourse

[royal lantern]

for assa its a bit annoying cus it slows your aoe down a bit

outlaw actually loses dmg

and its like that for a LONG time now lol

like, years at this point

yet people always act as if outlaw needs 0stealth, and that assa/sub do no dmg without it lol

[spice spire]

Mfs cope

[royal lantern]

meanwhile sub could have its stealth button removed and nothing would change lmao

spitefull is litearlly positive for sub

like, a giga aoe dps gain

[south olive]

i was actually thinking about trying sub HAHA but having a good time on assa so 🏃🏃

[spice spire]

[sullen quest]

I had brainlag and I shadowstepped the second eon shatter circle on top of the first one on first boss in fall

[south olive]

heal check

[sullen quest]

entire group exploded instantly

everyone left

I thought I was first somehow

[sullen quest]

nah the second circle made it so that the soak couldn't be soaked, basically unhealable

[gray hazel]

I found my damage overall to be a bit lower with it on tryan weeks, and feeling it’ll be even worse on fort weeks

[neat plank]

but it's much more enjoyable on boss fights 🙂

[clever niche]

My healer friend screams at me if I insta cloak that off haha. That fight is scuffed

[balmy condor]

That checks out considering you don’t play cleave for overall damage

[sullen quest]

yeah lol

[slate crown]

Yeah I used to have step be mouseover and on mythic rashok I got the slam circle and tried to step someone near the orb but they moved as I pressed So I ended up stepping the boss and wiping the raid.

[sullen quest]

[blazing jewel]

It’s like when you step too early with the big circle on fall first boss and you put them on top of each other

[sullen quest]

That's what I did

That's what sparked the conversation

[blazing jewel]

[slate crown]

Yeah, SCANA

[blazing jewel]

We all share a singular brain cell

[sullen quest]

it took less than 3 seconds for the group to fall apart

even though we probably had like 15 minutes of leeway

people were HELLA mad

[blazing jewel]

I was on the phone during one of our heroic splits for fyrakk and pseudo not playing because I was just using my mouse

It gave me the fire circle and I may or may not have accidentally set the tree on fire

[sullen quest]

hahahahahahahahaha

BURN IT

[minor gate]

Technology makes one ignorant to the destruction of nature

[nova flax]

Maybe the tree shouldnt have its roots right fucking there

Maybe it deserved to burn

[blazing jewel]

Real and true

[sullen quest]

Not wrong

[blazing jewel]

Bad city planning

[sullen quest]

These nightelves are fucking stupid ngl

[sullen quest]

btw what is this FALL dragon skip distract tech

Anyone got a TLDR?

something about distracting on the floor while its still in midair?

[blazing jewel]

Basically even though it has true sight if you shroud and distract it to the left while hugging right you can skip

[sullen quest]

What I heard was that you need to do it while its still flying and itl turn around

so it's that simple huh

ok cool

[blazing jewel]

I think it’s easier if you distract it before it fully lands but you can skip it either way

[sullen quest]

Yeah that's the bit I wanted to know, like how exactly do I approach that situation

how what where

[torn atlas]

I feel like it's safer to just do the stack and run?

[blazing jewel]

Nothing really stops you from doing both

Shroud will be up to skip the hallway at the end regardless

[vital haven]

try and distract it if you can

but you can just stack right and just run past it

[quasi ledge]

You always get one slow person a second behind everyone. I just distract for safety, just before it lands. Even if people "aggro" it or hit it, if its distracted it'll reset

[sullen quest]

Nah people can't do this

Pressing W or holding l/r click at the same time or within 0.2s of someone else is like an impossible feat

idk how

[pure moth]

ive stacked and ive had people get stuck behind. Might as well just kill it

[sullen quest]

Oh I nailed it first try

I distracted it mid air

It stayed in mid air for a second and then flew away

Everyone in the party passed

healer came 10 seconds later and ran straight into it

I get blamed

[pure moth]

You did your part. Clearly other people went through and were fine

Anyone who lags behind is screwed

[spice spire]

[jade abyss]

hey guys maybe a stupid question but how you play your cds on last boss fall and everbloom ?

[sullen quest]

save vanish for adds

rest send

unless you need execute dmg for fall boss

[jade abyss]

so we dont hold cds for the second phase where he is spamming his aoe?

[sullen quest]

sorry, that's what I mean by execute yes

[jade abyss]

ah okay thank you

[sullen quest]

you basically have to feel out your groups ST damage and decide if you have to hold at some point

[thorn fjord]

Servers up

[sweet ridge]

Ok so i have a sandglass and branch

just pulled embers out of the vault didnt take it yet

worth sniping or should i fish for signet

[thorn fjord]

Nice i got one of the crit rings

[spark hawk]

hey, if i apply deathmark to my opponent during opener, does existing rapture get amplified or do i need to apply a new one for it to count towards the deathmark effect?

[thorn fjord]

Any bleeds/poisons will be duplicated once you hit DM

[glad flare]

Hey guys, is Mirror of Fractured Tomorrows any good for assassination ?

[twilit star]

is the raidbots single targt sim accurate? says im suppose to hit 109k dps on single target, yet over and over on dummies and M+ bosses i only get to 79-82k, but peak dps at 178k after cooldowns

[spice spire]

https://tenor.com/view/sim-simyoself-gif-20048910

[restive falcon]

i got a myth track auguary for socket again and i wanna take auguary for memes in keys :/

[sullen quest]

Yes. You're missing a shitton of buffs on a dummy, ones that you probably have enabled in the sims (they are by default)

Also consider the possibility that you might not be playing flawlessly

[twilit star]

energy management is such a huge pain for me, i also am missing 4 piece, any suggestions? i appreciate your time in replying

[sullen quest]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[arctic hare]

its not amazing, it doesn't line up with our Cd's very well

[arctic hare]

I'd sim it tho

[sullen quest]

You basically just get the opener under control, and from that point onwards it's just repeating the KB rotation every minute + doing what the !pooling command just listed

[glad flare]

Thanks my dude

[arctic hare]

np

[sullen quest]

Make sure your kingsbane rotation is good:

100% uptime on shiv (1 gcd before and immediately when it expires)
thistle tea during last 6 (not 6.5) better to do it at like 5 or 5.5 than 6.5
vanish during last 3, same as thistle, don't cast above 3

Since you did mention M+, leave out vanish during KB there so you can utilise it for when you need carnage

[twilit star]

thank you so very much!

[green apex]

Ouroboreal neck isn't anything special for Sin right? I know it's rare but is the fire shield worth dropping for bad stats? (have a M one in my vault).

My other option is leech on Heroic Tier shoulders 👀

[sullen quest]

sim it

bad stats is so misleading

just sim, don't think about stats

[desert inlet]

gaze upon my pant

[blazing jewel]

[sullen quest]

the leech doesnt dip into the secondary budget right?

[green apex]

I'm more wondering about the shield than the stats, as i already have a beauty neck

[blazing jewel]

Good pant

[green apex]

100k shield every min seems incredibly mid but we are doing Mythic prog? I should find some rog healing logs i guess

[sullen quest]

Yeah I'm unsure atm how that would translate to actual value on twsift or fyrakk

[sweet shore]

Wdym by this ?

[sullen quest]

Those legs come with leech by default

[green apex]

Some items have tertiary / wierd stats / procs but give up secondary stats to balance them out

[desert inlet]

same amount of secondaries as regular pant, yeah

[sullen quest]

I'm wondering if it's a freebie or if it cuts into the secondary budget

That's pretty juicy then

blizzard loves kiss curse

this is just kisses

[desert inlet]

[blazing jewel]

[sweet shore]

Stuff like leech and avoidance don’t really cut into secondary stats

[sullen quest]

.

You're arguing tertiary procs

completely unrelated

[sweet shore]

Ah gotcha

My@b

[sullen quest]

If you catalyse those legs the leech doesn't carry over because of that also

It's a frequent question in leather discords

[green apex]

TFW you find that out for the first time

[sullen quest]

free leech, free timestrike

[blazing jewel]

Leather discords

[sullen quest]

😉

[desert inlet]

[sweet shore]

Good to know

[sullen quest]

speaking of tertiaries

I haven't had a double or triple tertiary stat proc drop (not including socket) since SL S4

Or maybe that was an item that had it at base and I'm capping

[spice spire]

Lil bro ur gonna make me act up in public

And not in Scana’s dms

[sullen quest]

😳

[spice spire]

[winged sun]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-27443459

[blazing jewel]

[tough portal]

[spice spire]

With speed?

Brother

[sullen quest]

daamn

cant wait for box of disappointments tomorrow

[sweet shore]

He’s gonna zoot for that 1-1-7 now

[native heron]

we can have 3 emblishments at one time right?

[proven jasper]

2

[native heron]

im looking at this rogue in io he has the boots and wrists then the ring with the food buff one

[proven jasper]

The food buff doesnt count as an embellishment

[native heron]

oh cool. tyvm!

[arctic hare]

I can't believe that exists lol

[spice spire]

Normally I wouldn’t but endwyr different

[junior yoke]

😡

[desert inlet]

[spice spire]

[neat plank]

I died on Yazma

from corrupting rage ticks 🙂

[spice spire]

Yazma kinda fucks

[sullen quest]

this game kinda easy

[sullen quest]

mother of god

[spice spire]

Doesn’t even have speed. Lol. Lmao even

[sullen quest]

not even speed+leech+avoidance

smh

[tough portal]

by our powers combined

[void mesa]

All these drops and I'm here like

Thats a cool Mythic cloak

[sullen quest]

just gaslight yourself into thinking you wanted to take a socket anyway

[void mesa]

I already took one last week on rogue for my M head

[spice spire]

Another socket

[void mesa]

Next week I guess I pick up the wrist socket...

[spice spire]

[void mesa]

M cloak feels sad but not terrible I guess idk

Its a crit mastery one at least

[sullen quest]

max ilv is max ilv

nobody can take that away from you

[spice spire]

I can

[void mesa]

Quake pls dont ;_;

[spice spire]

Why not a 492 cloak

[sullen quest]

And blizzard can too, in a few months, with fated

[void mesa]

[flint marsh]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/486284970806083584/1165033412827037806/image.png

[void mesa]

I was kinda relieved not to pick tokens on 3 chara this week

And now I'm gonna be stuck thinking about it and simming a damn token

[feral mason]

498 weapon activities

[sullen quest]

The best part about looting branch from EB was telling the havoc DH who whispered me if I needed that I did infact need it

[feral mason]

After all my rogue gearing and keys i started gearing tank alt

Every assa rogue i invite

Is utter dogshit

Even in like 22-23s

[sullen quest]

wait so you've been inviting me?

[feral mason]

on a 22 halfway through fall

Ignore the dh bum the nerf critted

Like idk man, people play it in raid ig and then go do keys and have no clue what they’re doing

[sullen quest]

Yeah it's basically braindead spec in ST

and then suddenly one of the harder specs in the game in aoe

[feral mason]

Hell nah

[sullen quest]

I think it is

I play ret, demo, destro, affli, balance, feral, assa, sub, combat, ele, shadow, uh

assa is by far the most complicated of all of the above

[royal tree]

why is Sin spec keep moving down the rakings on subcreation? i think its great and its nice to not have to rely on outlaws RNG why is everyone so fanboy about outlaw these days

[sullen quest]

(harder/hardest doesn't mean hard)

[misty holly]

Does anyone know if there is a higher chance to get Nick of Time with sub spec or assassin spec?

[sullen quest]

just look at the amount of items in the table in journal for both specs and pick the one that has less (they should be equal afaik)

Other than size of the pool I don't think there are hidden spec based modifiers

[misty holly]

That can't be right...

Assassination has some hidden modifier to make cloaks show up more often I'm pretty sure.

[thorn fjord]

Nah that’s just your bad luck

[sullen quest]

I mean it's cloak and dagger right

so you might be on to something here

[thorn fjord]

[sullen quest]

playing with DH is super fun

[crisp pine]

I'd rather brick my key than have a DH in the group smh

[past forum]

Half of their damage is pad damage on irrelevant adds that die right away our prio damage is what makes the key go smoothly surely the group understands this and respects how much smoother it made the key

[sullen quest]

100% true and based and real

[misty holly]

For some reason our caustic spatter damage, which is just pad damage onto irrelevent adds gets us nerfed

but DH doing 5x more pad damage is no problem.

[crisp pine]

I highkey doubt that they nerfed Assa cause of Caustic padding

[past forum]

I’ve always heard locks and others cry “delete PI so we can be properly balanced and not unfairly nerfed” and thought gg noob cry more

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-avengers-endgame-perhaps-i-treated-you-too-harshly-gif-26539272

[proven jasper]

Nerfs were definitely becuase of how strong assa was in raid

[crisp pine]

How do you people believe assa was nerfed cause of PI's existance

[desert inlet]

[misty holly]

Because the only alternative is that assa was nerfed because Chris Metzen hates us

[crisp pine]

As he should

[gusty mirage]

@desert inlet

[dark token]

You can beat em

This is 1 pull

[dark token]

Yeah I have to queue as outlaw

Switch to assa when I enter key after ready check

People clowning on assa when it good af if played well

[past forum]

It's part of proper rogue rp to be sneaky like that, you're just living in the class fantasy

[desert inlet]

[sullen quest]

surely

[pure sail]

I have 3.2k Rio and I still get denied in 18 playing assa o\

[tame sand]

keys in Ret vs Assa

[spice spire]

Honestly, gabagool spec

Bleed bleed bleed envenom

[thorn fjord]

I like cold cuts

[spice spire]

Cold cut this pal

[tame sand]

idk it should be easy, but i struggle
and then i go on my Ret alt and just press my 4 buttons and hav fun

[thorn fjord]

Our ret plays ret with only 2 keys

He’s a macro guy

That’s his shtick

[spice spire]

I’m a one trick so ofc I’d think it’s easy

[thorn fjord]

He legit plays all his toons with macros

[spice spire]

Difficulty subjective

[thorn fjord]

2 key hunter as well lol

[spice spire]

Don’t let people talk down to you because of any reason

[thorn fjord]

He’s not even a bad player

He’s just been playing wow like this for years

[swift magnet]

does he top meters or something?

[spice spire]

Meter topper doesn’t always equal good player

[runic hinge]

We did it boys

[misty holly]

I don't see a single cloak, you must have been in sub spec

[runic hinge]

I didn't even wanna do keys all my guild is on vacation and i slogged out 8

worth

[spice spire]

Ur so thicc

[sullen quest]

Yeah you literally don't have to think about anything on ret

[sullen quest]

massive gz

[proven jasper]

Yugeee

[runic hinge]

First one I've seen since run 9 week 1

[rotund oak]

coz realistically sin did what it did by getting PI's

[runic hinge]

Sin does what it does by having good cd timings and burst

caustic as a one talent cleave

PI helps but its just a symptom

And they don't nerf based on externals

[sullen quest]

technically they do

[rotund oak]

ye i kinda doubt that

[sullen quest]

ret gets nerfed (or not buffed) because instruments of retribution exists, which gives you wings when someone else dies

that's sort of an external :p

[spice spire]

Yeah but that’s not really an external.
Because it’s something the Ret does to itself

[sullen quest]

I don't kill my teammates

OR do I

[spice spire]

You could give me the argument of WFT being an external

[past forum]

good thing i didnt waste my time doing all 8 keys last week https://gyazo.com/f20992985dc0e592097edafa9f35d074 it was destined to be in #2 slot

[sullen quest]

I'm just joking anyway

[spice spire]

Ur good

[rotund oak]

ild chop them into bacon if i had to,lmao

[sullen quest]

ikr

[runic hinge]

[sullen quest]

Rashok is the only boss in 3 tiers that i've ever done dmg on

because entire raid was always dead before me

[past forum]

i was also mostly joking too. i dont really think PI got us nerfed, I just wanted to do the bit of making fun of crying warlocks

[sullen quest]

I hate purples

[rotund oak]

locks and dhs are not allowed to live

no mercy

[sullen quest]

Based

[spice spire]

Dhs provide a necessary buff to us Assassination gamers

[sullen quest]

remove raid buffs

[spice spire]

I’ll accept a maiming (this is a joke this is a joke this is a joke this is a joke this is a joke this is a joke this is a joke this is a joke this is a joke)

[spice spire]

[thorn fjord]

His damage is pretty decent but no The locks and I top meters

[thorn fjord]

GRATZ Tony!

[runic hinge]

[lapis lantern]

at goliath (waycrest), is there a way to reduce the damage of thorns as a rogue?

[past pebble]

Sims want me to socket haste and prior haste items? but the wow guide's want me to socket mastery and crit. Any thoughts?

[sullen quest]

The sim isn't telling you to prio haste items, it's simply telling you that within the variables given whatever the best configuration is is currently best for you

[spice spire]

Your stat priority changes over time the WoW guide is a general guide

[sullen quest]

disregard gearing guides, listen to the robot

[spice spire]

Amen

Based even

[cerulean nest]

after this week I will have nothing to spend aspect crests on

[thorn fjord]

Same aside from crafts

[cerulean nest]

3 items from the vault will be upgrades in the game lol

guess ill start making some subtlety embellishment crafts for fun

[thorn fjord]

I'll prob make a ring next week

Maybe 2

[cerulean nest]

i have M igira and larodar rings

dont see myself needing to craft one really

[thorn fjord]

I have Larodar and Waycrest rings right now

at 489

i want a solid crit mastery ring

[cerulean nest]

maybe for sub I'd craft one

[thorn fjord]

I suck at sub atm

havent bothered getting better tho lol

[cerulean nest]

its hard for sure

[spice spire]

Gabagool spec

I’d never

[cerulean nest]

like 12 button snap opener with half of them off the gcd lol

granted i was learning it for the first time this tier during smold prog

[thorn fjord]

The dust stuff is what fucks me up

Yeah same and i decided to just play sin so i can focus on not dying lol

[neat plank]

any consumables that can make your character slightly smaller?

[cerulean nest]

lots of toys can

[neat plank]

i need something that doesnt have many hours of cooldown

😛

like reverse winterfall firewater

[keen spruce]

i'm over here simming sockets cuz my whole m+ row was boots

[thorn fjord]

WHAT ARE THOSE?!

[keen spruce]

leech myth hat tho

but leech also dogshit

[misty holly]

I did that too, socket worth 1k dps on patchwork

[gusty mirage]

mine was all trinkets

and none of them were good

[quiet oar]

I wanted to say

its clearly a counterweight

[void mesa]

Counterweight angle for sure

[keen spruce]

[quiet oar]

I eman Ember isnt that bad

[keen spruce]

we're gonna stop reclearing soon

[quiet oar]

Isnt ember like the second best passive on sub

[keen spruce]

so ig i just take the tier

[misty holly]

wasnt spiked counterweight buffed

[gusty mirage]

pips at 483 was the least worst option

[keen spruce]

at myth

i can always get sockets

[quiet oar]

Yeah ok

Pips myth is better

[gusty mirage]

big socket for when I craft a helm next week

[keen spruce]

helmet

[gusty mirage]

yes

helmet

[keen spruce]

why hat

[gusty mirage]

because I'm playing sub

[thorn fjord]

Purple Helmet Warrior

[keen spruce]

hat was so last tier

[gusty mirage]

why would I not craft a helm

[keen spruce]

oh

[gusty mirage]

you think I'm going to int fyrakk prog by playing assassination?

[keen spruce]

idk I am

[gusty mirage]

yeah I'm on fyrakk now

not in a month

[quiet oar]

Oxi firing shots

[gusty mirage]

I would like to kill this boss as fast as possible

[keen spruce]

very generous of you

[gusty mirage]

so I can quit until next expac

[keen spruce]

thinkin we'll be there in a month

[quiet oar]

Wdym Oxi

Arent you hyped about

Fated

[thorn fjord]

But what about fated @gusty mirage

[gusty mirage]

if you ever say those words to me again I'm blocking you from my life

[quiet oar]

[gusty mirage]

the only thing that sounds less fun than being forced to play sub for another 6 months

is doing dathea again

or zskarn

or echo of nelth

[quiet oar]

Raszageth

[gusty mirage]

rasz is fine

[quiet oar]

But maybe they buff Sin in S4

[gusty mirage]

yeah man

maybe in the next rework

only for the balance team to overnerf assassination yet again

[quiet oar]

It was so bsuted !!!!

Why is it

[gusty mirage]

the last 3% was completely unnecessary

[quiet oar]

That everytime one Rogue spec

is really top meta

it gets nerfed multiple times

but other classes like WL and Mage

[gusty mirage]

because the people who balance clearly don't play the game

[quiet oar]

can stay on top an entire tier

[gusty mirage]

also rogue population is significantly smaller than mage population for example

so when rogue is good, it seems oppressive

[quiet oar]

Wouldnt that make Ret a good target to buff it?

[gusty mirage]

that's what happens when balancing is a clown fiesta

[quiet oar]

arent there many Ret players

[sullen quest]

YES BUFF RET

[gusty mirage]

I mean ret did get buffed

[wide ferry]

This.

[quiet oar]

Yeah but i mean like top 5

[sullen quest]

ret got a 2.5% buff

[quiet oar]

But fuck rets

[sullen quest]

the problem is damage profile and dog talents

[quiet oar]

Mine ret is whining too much

[gusty mirage]

brother

[quiet oar]

Yeah ok sim

and raid is different

for me

[sullen quest]

that's with axe, and a sim

[gusty mirage]

well ofc

[sullen quest]

ret can't do more than 1 type of dmg

without a complete talent change

[gusty mirage]

that's literally almost every spec in the game

that's not exclusive to ret paladin

people wanted talent trees back

this is the result

[sullen quest]

havoc switches 1 point

[quiet oar]

I mean

Wasnt the Covenant system

[gusty mirage]

havoc also has built in cleave on every ability for some odd reason

[quiet oar]

also a Talent tree on wish

[wide ferry]

I didnt feel the kingsbane nerf, but that 3% fuckin made me wanna reroll

[keen spruce]

you definitely didn't feel the 3% either

except that your RL was probaly telling you to play sub now

[gusty mirage]

isn't that the neat thing about feelings, you can't substantiate the claim. He could've easily felt the 3% in relation to his performance from prior weeks

[unique sorrel]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/486284970806083584/1165033412827037806/image.png

[gusty mirage]

and you can't tell him what he can/can't feel

[keen spruce]

i just did

[gusty mirage]

well you're wrong duck man

[wide ferry]

Definitely did and it shows on the meters. And sub is the biggest dump of shit, its horrible for m+

[gusty mirage]

just like you're wrong for playing assassination on smolderon

[sullen quest]

How can you know that someone else can't know or feel what someone else feels

[keen spruce]

I call it

[sullen quest]

[keen spruce]

creative prog decisions

not "wrong"

[gusty mirage]

I mean it was wrong before the nerfs, it's definitely wrong now

[quiet oar]

I mean doesnt Sin work with Autumn buff

[keen spruce]

technically

[gusty mirage]

best case scenario assassination was a good chunk behind sub PRIOR to all the nerfs

[keen spruce]

if you have multiple augs

CDRing you

i think u can deathmark every amp

[quiet oar]

Autumn is pala

or am i wrong

[gusty mirage]

you can do that without augs

[keen spruce]

with just autumn?

[gusty mirage]

you just hold DM for first intermission

[keen spruce]

[gusty mirage]

and it lines up

[quiet oar]

Ye its 30 seconds

autumn