like you should allready not do
#assassination
royal lantern
torn atlas
Kinda miss SL spite sniping with bonespike
fringe mirage
Should we always keep up our energy up +50% for sanguin blade? for single and aoe?
royal lantern
!pooling
prisma monolithBOT
Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back
- If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
- Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
- Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
- With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use
royal lantern
last point
fringe mirage
❤️
fleet pagoda
is "spiteful doesn't matter" the continued ravenholdt rhetoric for S3? because it feels like cheeks trying to spread dots individually or commit CDs to activate IC on tyran weeks. it's lit if the numbers aren't really impacted but from a perspective of fun; it just feels cumbersome rather than challenging. idk.
vestal wren
it is possible, but i don't think its a good idea
crisp pine
is "spiteful doesn't matter" the continued ravenholdt rhetoric for S3? because i...
I press Shadow Dance for that
royal lantern
or vanish
fleet pagoda
I press Shadow Dance for that
that's what I meant by utilizing CDs to spread dots. it's not too far from playing with old IC but with a longer CD now 
royal lantern
or realising its no big deal anyway
crisp pine
that's what I meant by utilizing CDs to spread dots. it's not too far from playi...
Idk, doesn't really feel like I'm pressing the cd just for spreading dots because usually I wouldve danced anyway
I'm a dancer at heart
So I press that shit on cd anyway
fleet pagoda
or realising its no big deal anyway
is fun in a game not a big deal? surely it's okay to express the preference to not have a small disruption in the flow of the gameplay as it relates to enjoyment of the spec without adding really anything. 
fleet pagoda
why the sarcastic response? seems unnecessary
grim jay
is fun in a game not a big deal? surely it's okay to express the preference to n...
it just further emphasizes that sin isnt a low key spec
atleast not really
since you will be able to dance on nearly all the big pulls on decent keys anways
dot specs never felt too good on lower keys btw
fleet pagoda
it just further emphasizes that sin isnt a low key spec
amen.
grim jay
if you play the cleave build it doesnt feel as bad btw
since you dont "rely" on spreading that much
fleet pagoda
i have been playing cleave and AP/shock depending on the dungeon. but I guess that's kind of the point, like, the spec is about spreading dots so the key to playing it in this context is to not spread dots
know what I mean?
grim jay
tbf the spec is about dealing damage with bleeds and poisons, spreading the dots is just kinda natural, but not really the focus
you shift the way you deal the majority of your damage with focusing on caustic
and talents should atleast in some way have that impact as it doesnt alter the spec fantasy itself
just shifts the way
fleet pagoda
I do like the variance in priority, I won't front on that; you're like the main character on mini boss pulls, it's cool. idk, i just don't like the way it changes the flow, i don't know how else to say it. it'd be like me saying to just hold clear casting for volcanic or something on your arcane... like yeah you can probably function that way but you may not prefer to
flat pier
First time hitting 3k as Assa feelsgoodman even with hunters playing Bop it
storm cloak
Any one struggle being able to get high Kings bane damage in keys? I just finished an atal and didn’t hit over 300 k
grim jay
Any one struggle being able to get high Kings bane damage in keys? I just finish...
well it has multiple factors
but a non dm kb should still be around 1m
for normally geared chars
storm cloak
At 470ish ilvl?
crisp pine
Any one struggle being able to get high Kings bane damage in keys? I just finish...
Like on bosses? or are you doing a +5 and talking about trash?
storm cloak
It was a 15 at 468 ilvl. Overall damage it didn’t hit higher then 324 k for a single tick the whole dungeon
I’m just trying to figure out how I am using KB wrong
grim jay
oh for a single tick
just track entire kingsbanes
with notters kb weakaura
damage per use is what most people care for
crisp pine
I have no idea how much damage the ticks do honestly
but 324 seems fine?
Honestly no clue tho
fleet pagoda
i'm assuming that's with a crit tick?
storm cloak
How are people getting like 1.5 m ticks? Even in a raid setting I can’t do 550 k
storm cloak
i'm assuming that's with a crit tick?
Yes
fleet pagoda
have you spent time practicing the opener/cooldown/kb windows?
scenic marlin
im guess you dont have massive amount of mastery?
storm cloak
I’m at like 58% mastery. Very high crit and low haste
I only hit 70 a week ago so I don’t have a lot of gear selection
crisp pine
I’m at like 58% mastery. Very high crit and low haste
Can you just show your damage breakdown from the key you've done?
scenic marlin
i just noticed
storm cloak
I main a frost mage
fleet pagoda
i just pretend to be literate
scenic marlin
during DM burst with pot trinkets etc, im at 120% mastery
cos of branch
so im assuming not having branch might be partially
crisp pine
Yea alright if I'm reading that correctly there are some problems
storm cloak
Since that raid I have watched whispers video on pooling
fleet pagoda
looks like you used SD to refresh improved garrote?
languid ferry
is there any secondary stat caps to be aware of? or just follow a general guideline with mast - crit - haste?
fleet pagoda
khaddel's cookin', he'll have the answers
storm cloak
I try to garrote and rupture or envenom during SD
crisp pine
Lay it on me
I'll be honest I have no idea if I'm even looking at this correctly, but you should definitely watch whispyrs video on the opener
From what I can tell, you didn't use SD to buff kingsbane, you didn't cast envenom going into dm kb, you used rupture like 2 seconds into KB, your second shiv came after KB ended?
There are a lot of weird things
storm cloak
I am just trying to learn. I’ll watch all of his videos
crisp pine
Then using SD to just spam ambush without KB at all, pressing KB 10 seconds after?
fleet pagoda
all of your damage is in those cooldown windows so it's a good investment to learn it
lucid rain
practise the opener in the wowhead guide
crisp pine
Yea, assa damage is mostly from your cooldowns so if you play them wrong you're gimping yourself a lot
lucid rain
the rest plays itself
crisp pine
Like
fleet pagoda
even your Thistle Tea usage is kind of all over the place, whereas you want to typically empower the last 6s of your KB with it
crisp pine
you don't wanna do that
lucid rain
and by practise it I mean you should be able to do it without thinking
fleet pagoda
lots of little things in addition to the snapshotting
crisp pine
not a professional log analyser but as other's have said, check out the wowhead guide and whispyr video and really get familiar with the opener, that'll help a lot already @storm cloak
crisp pine
Can't just give you one simple trick that doctors hate since there are a lot of small things that are holding you back
Why did you vanish at 1:30? is that a volcoross thing? I haven't set foot into the raid
lucid rain
I mean honestly if a person perfects the opener and subsequent KB windows, the spec plays itself
if you can do 1 window perfectly you can do them all
scenic marlin
like im just dummy smacking rn, and im getting 650k crits from kb
lucid rain
that's not helpful
cinder dawn
What is the interaction between Envenom and Kingsbane? Do your envenoms amplify your kingsbane?
scenic marlin
envenom buff
lucid rain
increased poison application chance
scenic marlin
^
lucid rain
every application empowers KB to do more damage
cinder dawn
thank you so much i think i found my missing damage
crisp pine
WE FOUND THE DAMAGE BOYS
cinder dawn
i tend to stutter a bit during my KB
lucid rain
use that weakaura that was just linked above and make sure that the %s beside the shiv and envenom icons are 100%
every time you KB
scenic marlin
yeah the wa is super useful for learning
lucid rain
sometimes that won't be possible but that's the goal
but in a situation where you have full uptime and no disruptions, both should be 100%
scenic marlin
can be quite alot to manage in the window esp if ur tryna be optimal using branch trinket etc too
cinder dawn
thats a fun weakaura
i got a 1.2m record is that any good? lol
no boofs just a dummy
crisp pine
My kingsbanes do 0 damage cause I'm fucking ass at this game
cinder dawn
this is the ass page afterall 😛
royal lantern
My kingsbanes do 0 damage cause I'm fucking ass at this game
dont get parried and it does more then 0
crisp pine
dont get parried and it does more then 0
How am I gonna stare the boss down if I'm standing behind them?
royal lantern
turn the camera
cinder dawn
next question, why am i getting my ass kicked by a BM hunter and a really good UH dk(he gets the PIs) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kK2wByMQW64rZzXp#fight=3&type=damage-done
P.S. that BM hunter usually beats me
I have mythic logs too but those are a lot messier and require better execution from me. my questioin is these easy fights i should be winning
those logs are just one of my best recent kills
crisp pine
turn the camera
I play in first person
lucid rain
those logs are just one of my best recent kills
you had a pretty long envenom timer here to start
you could've combined the mutilate with the shiv I guess?
then kb envenom garrote mutilate rupture
too lazy to check energy and combo points but envenom did fall off for 1.5 seconds in this image
cinder dawn
and envenom falling off is less daamge for your KB right?
lucid rain
indeed
cinder dawn
so envenoms buff increases poison application chance by 30% for (CP spent)seconds
those poisons being applied apply more to KB
am i getting this intereaction right?
sry not 3s. its based on CPs
lucid rain
yeah
also here
gnarlroot gets the 100% damage vuln at 2:05
but you start hitting at 2:05
he's not immune, so you can pre-apply rupture and gain combo points
before it's time to actually attack him
cinder dawn
that makes sense
that would be huge because my last tick of KB was not applying to the damage amp
lucid rain
that'll do it
cinder dawn
last tick is the biggest tick right?
the way fthe videos made it sound, the last tick of KB is really important
lucid rain
assuming every tick crits or every tick doesn't crit, yes
but sometimes the previous tick crits and the last one doesn't
in general, the final tick is very important
cinder dawn
thanks for the info. im new to theorycrafting so every bit helps
tame sand
do we have to wait till last scond of envenom to use it again ?
outside of kingsbane
royal lantern
yes
storm cloak
not a professional log analyser but as other's have said, check out the wowhead ...
Thank you for info!
fresh wadi
what do you guys think of elusiveness vs cheat death in m+? not having cheat sucks but if i take it i feel like there are plenty of times where i just dont have a good defensive to press for dmg events
oak tangle
cheat death is a crutch
lucid rain
feelscraft says the higher keys you get into, the better elusiveness becomes
you can probably milk that talent for a lot of value
oak tangle
ironically if you are proccing cheat death in lower keys then you doing something wrong
fresh wadi
true
im not doing high keys, just now breaking into 20s, but the extra defensives definitely feels nice
im sure the healer is panicking less too
lucid rain
tyrannical generally has a lot of unavoidable big damage, so you could probably play elusiveness for thta
downside being that if you die, you can't release to rejoin combat
assuming no combat res
oak tangle
i find that if im proccing cheat death in a key, i've either fked up or my healer / tank is already dead
lucid rain
NE supremacy
oak tangle
in which case you just waste cheat death on a wipe
oak tangle
but i mainly raid, so i keep cheat death
upbeat mirage
I keep having raid fights where signet brand does 0.7% of my DPS and others where it does 6%. Is this thing just super RNG? Are my good fights like when you roll a 6 buff on outlaw? Spiked counterweight (the other passive I have) seems consistent at 2.5-3% of my dps
upbeat mirage
Define "short"
lucid rain
like sub 3 minutes
past forum
So I know cp generation is variable cause of seal fate, but during kb i seem to be at max cp when it’s time to 2nd shiv more often than not. In that case, should I overcap cp to not miss on shiv coverage, or just envenom first and lose 1 global of shiv coverage? Or should I do it a global earlier and just overlap shiv slightly?
upbeat mirage
I'll check the timers, but mentally they were all 5+ minutes
lucid rain
I've seen augury do work so if you really want a bosskiller trinket
you could run that
if you can get it, that is
oak tangle
So I know cp generation is variable cause of seal fate, but during kb i seem to ...
you have wiggle room on shiv timing
upbeat mirage
if you can get it, that is
step 1, lol
subtle tundra
I've seen augury do work so if you really want a bosskiller trinket
on assa?
past forum
you have wiggle room on shiv timing
Cause 2 shivs are longer than a kb, right? So i could in theory shiv a global early to not waste cp?
subtle tundra
its not a good trinket on assa
lucid rain
rip
upbeat mirage
signet brand is rated at the tippy top and I keep having shit results with it, except for on fyraak, that's why I'm asking my questions. 🙂
lucid rain
you'd probably want pip's as your 2nd trinket for bosses that fall over quickly
subtle tundra
sandglass is just good
upbeat mirage
Well, looks like we did kill Volcoross in under 3 minutes. My mistake. 🙂
sullen quest
signet brand is rated at the tippy top and I keep having shit results with it, e...
Because it gains value with fight length and doesn't really catch up until you do 5+ min fights
oak tangle
Cause 2 shivs are longer than a kb, right? So i could in theory shiv a global ea...
not just that, kb ticks every 2 seconds, so shiv (t-1) > dance / kb (t0) > kb tick (t2) > kb tick (t4) > kb tick (t6) (you can apply shiv here to cover till end > shiv drops (t7) > (apply shiv before this) kb tick (t8) > kb tick (t10) > kb tick (t12) > kb tick (t14)
so you have a 2 second window between 6 seconds into kb and 8s
past forum
Ahhh interesting
oak tangle
it's obviously better if you can reapply without losing the shiv buff, cause poisons etc, but you wont miss a kb tick
oak tangle
that's a case where i let it drop for a bit, lost approx 35k total damage from non buffed ticks. but with envenoms hitting between 60 and 300k 1-2 cp should be worth more than 35k
charred mango
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool
sullen quest
Anyone know if any of these packs (or others) have GCD built in?
sullen quest
I would love to have someone teach me how, if I knew I wouldn't be asking
Info online about this is almost non existant or only applies when you create a brand new aura yourself
tagging the show gcd box doesn't do anything on (many)existing auras because there are probably other triggers and conditionals overwriting it somehow
I see no such option on group
slate crown
I don't generally have GCD enabled on my auras or in my pack
Mostly because assassination isn't particularly GCD locked, only during KB windows and that's a pretty set sequence
Or, not set, but relatively consistent
That said, yes, simply adding GCD to any aura can be as simple as checking the box, but not always
especially for complex auras that are pulling dynamic information from multiple sources
sullen quest
Yeah that's probably the issue I'm running into
slate crown
And it's also a trigger setting
sullen quest
it's easy enough to just add a gcd trigger
slate crown
which means it's set in the aura which, for an entire group, is hard to adjust all at once
I think a pragmatic way to go about it is you'd pick one aura where it makes sense
and just adjust that one
sullen quest
I only like having a GCD tracker for openers in m+ or high energy gen situations in m+
sullen quest
I think a pragmatic way to go about it is you'd pick one aura where it makes sen...
that's what I was thinking, but now I'm at the point where I have a gcd sweep but it gets disabled when things are on CD or are having their duration tracked
slate crown
You could create a new icon
And have like, fok or mutilate as the icon
And that has a GCD sweep, so it doesn't ever get overwritten by other stuff
sullen quest
That would be my last resort, but not preferable
slate crown
that's what I was thinking, but now I'm at the point where I have a gcd sweep bu...
Is there a specific aura you were thinking?
sullen quest
I know CD/duration tracking doesn't need to disable gcd sweep
slate crown
Like which one would you add this to
sullen quest
Something in the middle, which for me would be either rupture or shiv, or SND would work too
limber lion
I tried having one in the past but it was rendered pretty useless and unnecessary clutter after a few hours of playing with it
But I only play Assassination pretty much, so the gcd being set to a fixed 1s at all times helps
sullen quest
This is a reoccuring issue that's bothering the fk out of me on any spec I play for like a decade now
limber lion
After playing this trash spec for so many years, you get the feel for the gcd anyways
sullen quest
if the resources were there online to teach, i'd gladly learn, but man the info is hella scarce
limber lion
But yeah, I would personally just mess around with spell queue if that's a reoccuring issue for you
sullen quest
Game feels bad to me when I'm not tracking GCD that's all. It has no actual gameplay implications.
limber lion
fair enough
midnight atlas
luxthos one has gcd on the abilities that trigger it
limber lion
I just added a gcd swipe to something like Shiv in my weakauras until I got rid of it
slate crown
In my mind it seems weird to have GCD swipe overwriting an aura that is already tracking a duration
slate crown
like rupture
royal lantern
im personaly not using the GCD option there
sullen quest
Yeah that's fair enough
royal lantern
but it has sone
+its just a great wa in general, actually seeing your mouse all the time
sullen quest
https://wago.io/ZbjlsgMkp
oh that's interesting thx
midnight atlas
kekw looks like fps crosshair
sullen quest
In my mind it seems weird to have GCD swipe overwriting an aura that is already ...
Yeah but the most logical options would be things like mutilate/fok/envenom, but you don't track those with an aura. So it becomes add it to something less convenient/everything or just add mutilate anyway
Oh yeah cursor tracker is too important
limber lion
I mean if you want you can probably make a weak aura that tracks GCD and nothing else
like a bar
slate crown
I did that for a bit
limber lion
just a small line
slate crown
But disabled it
slate crown
Just wasn't finding it useful or informative
limber lion
rip
sullen quest
I play the game by pressing buttons like twice, max 3 times, per cast
limber lion
anyways back to making my eggnog
sullen quest
depending on situation maybe even once
limber lion
gl
sullen quest
you too
slate crown
I mean it is a feedback/confirmation that you actually did something
jaunty nest
what embellishment did u guys put on ur wrist i cannot find answer on google
slate crown
so that's fair to see
sullen quest
I mean it is a feedback/confirmation that you actually did something
exactly
slate crown
I just think it doesn't have a great place on top of other auras
limber lion
what embellishment did u guys put on ur wrist i cannot find answer on google
toxic patch
slate crown
If those auras are already tracking a swipe
sullen quest
it feels really bad to press something 6 times because you're unsure if it took because there's no feedback
jaunty nest
toxic patch
i think i already have that on boots or do i use 2?
limber lion
i think i already have that on boots or do i use 2?
Toxic Thorn on boots
Toxic Patch on bracers
different thing
jaunty nest
ooh ok ty ty
sullen quest
boots has thorn and then an off piece has the patch to compliment the thorn
limber lion
patch buffs boots
slate crown
Like it's technically possible to do what you want on top of another aura by adding a trigger at the top of the list for GCD and that will overwrite the duration sweep, and making sure dynamic info is "from first active trigger".
Just a matter of deciding where it would be the most useful
sullen quest
Honestly I'd put it everywhere, or rather, on this top row, just to see how it feels
limber lion
or just put it on deathmark or something
sullen quest
yeah deathmark is a good idea
grim jay
!restealth @blissful forge
prisma monolithBOT
Long In-depth explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:
https://youtu.be/DoZDPFk_Zog
The TLDW (I understand, it's LONG):
- Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
- This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths
- You still have vanish and in 10.2, shadow dance, which gives you MANY options to get your stealth effects
- This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years
sullen quest
I'm thinking more in the line of spreading garrote and rupture through IC from a restealth between pulls, not sure how big the value loss is there but it sure as hell feels bad
Then again anything feels bad in low keys on tyrannical weeks
fierce marsh
Hey. I Got a Problem. I'm often behind with envenom casts and Kb dmg. Compared to my guild mate rogues i'm 20-40k dps below them. Could correct pooling fix the Problem? My Kb Rotation is clean but it seems i'm missing somthing. Do i Re-dot enemys while in Kb or should i prio envenom?
grim jay
I'm thinking more in the line of spreading garrote and rupture through IC from a...
you mentioned it yourself
it FEELS bad
but it aint much of a diff
there are other things than can kill your dps
sullen quest
In this case you're expected to optimise the SD tied to your KB window for spreading then I assume?
slate crown
Honestly I'd put it everywhere, or rather, on this top row, just to see how it f...
Like I said, can just add a GCD trigger and put that at the top of the trigger list, and make sure dynamic info is coming from "First Active Trigger", will default to GCD duration when it's active, can add that to every one of those auras
See how it feels
sullen quest
Like I said, can just add a GCD trigger and put that at the top of the trigger l...
Cheers
grim jay
In this case you're expected to optimise the SD tied to your KB window for sprea...
yeah. if you dont have dance/vanish up you will just spread manually
!restealth @quick wedge
prisma monolithBOT
Long In-depth explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:
https://youtu.be/DoZDPFk_Zog
The TLDW (I understand, it's LONG):
- Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
- This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths
- You still have vanish and in 10.2, shadow dance, which gives you MANY options to get your stealth effects
- This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years
sullen quest
Like I said, can just add a GCD trigger and put that at the top of the trigger l...
this makes deathmark desaturate unless it's active, and even when active doesn't show GCD
slate crown
You'd have to review Conditions
I'm not familiar with that specific version of deathmark
Conditions can modify all that stuff as well
blissful forge
!restealth <@447447026343477249>
see, it takes overall from a key so i assume he only did the sims for dslice, if you do the sim for it for 8-10t pw 40sec it will be much higher then 0,6%...
and needing to spend gc'ds in dance for putting dots up instead of chaining envenom is also not that optimal i would guess
spice surge
see, it takes overall from a key so i assume he only did the sims for dslice, if...
No sims at all
Literally logs
Look at the resource before confidently claiming its incorrect pls
sweet dawn
is there a way to see in logs how many combo points where spent on a finisher?
low quartz
When playing the no scent of blood/crimson tempest build, do we still try and get as many ruptures out as possible? or is it more beneficial to just get caustic splatter up and spam envenoms
blissful forge
idc if logs are used or not tbf, im literally talking about a single big pack all the time thats what ppl dont get, im well aware that over the course of a dungeon it wont be that important/it wont matter that much
@spice surge
spice surge
We get what youre talking about, dw
grim jay
When playing the no scent of blood/crimson tempest build, do we still try and ge...
I usually still garrote everything with the stealth garrote and you kinda wanna spread enough ruptures to generate enough energy before you spam envenom. if you play lower keys you might wanna go straight into SD KB
slate crown
this makes deathmark desaturate unless it's active, and even when active doesn't...
Sorry for the curt responses, just not all there right now, I'll agree the resources aren't super present that I know of but I'm sure there are some guides on yt or elsewhere, a lot of WA support is typically relegated to just asking questions either in knowledgable spaces (I think here is typically fine) or the WeakAuras discord.
Hard to give exact instruction for a WA I'm unfamiliar with as there are so, so many ways things can be configured (and un-configured based on conditions / custom stuff). Deathmark should be a fine choice here because it isn't typically going to be overloaded with other information
(Also not on retail atm so hard to double check things)
vestal wren
@grim jay to openly discuss your complain, and also to be able to have a meaningful discussion, lets quick go over the statements you ended up beeing concerned, which was this.
^ just to clarify this straight up, this is in agreement with whispyrs video i assume that you shouldn't worry about it
but framing it as if someone wants to spread missinformation is a bit tough
grim jay
^ just to clarify this straight up, this is in agreement with whispyrs video i a...
I never once worried about it in any way shape or form
blissful forge
tbf i think hes just mad at me about overdramatizing the entire thing by saying 70% to make my point stronger
grim jay
but framing it as if someone wants to spread missinformation is a bit tough
still wasnt directed towards you
vestal wren
no stealth
vestal wren
is a 15% damage loss over a 40 sec fight with 8 targets
the same applies to dungeon slice
quick wedge
and its 40s long fight
vestal wren
so now you can complain, how both are not representative over a full dungeon run
and they are not
quick wedge
on +20 pack dying in 25s max
vestal wren
but there is a noticable impact from steatlh
blissful forge
on +20 pack dying in 25s max
im talking bout high keys where packs actually live that long
vestal wren
simply saying, there is not impact is false
sullen quest
But what if this happens on every single pull, suddenly the number is hugely impactful, it feels weird to say missing restealth on 1 pack and taking the impact of that averaged out over an entire run and then saying it's not a big deal, no?
blissful forge
But what if this happens on every single pull, suddenly the number is hugely imp...
ofc but i was literally discussing 1 big pack and not over the course of an entire dungeon
quick wedge
im talking bout high keys where packs actually live that long
On tyra weeks pack will live 40s on +25?
sullen quest
on +20 pack dying in 25s max
shouldnt the impact also be bigger on a 25s pull vs 40?
crisp pine
Are you guys talking about stealth again
vestal wren
all i did, so that everyone can re-produce it is
storm monolith
did anyone else just suffer unbelievable connection issues?
blissful forge
On tyra weeks pack will live 40s on +25?
depending on the pull size
vestal wren
change this two lines to not enter stealth or restealth in the fight style
(and modify the action=kick line)
sullen quest
ofc but i was literally discussing 1 big pack and not over the course of an enti...
yeah I got that, but I'm not familiar with all the sources yet so I'm trying to keep a backseat
grim jay
simply saying, there is not impact is false
it was about the scale of impact and ye, sims arent really reflective, hence why dungeonslice dps arent representative for overall m+ dps
silver escarp
Do we use the hybrid build this week?
vestal wren
so please, don't frame it like someone is working against a other person
simply by stating that there is a impact is not a problem
blissful forge
but sorry for overdramatizing it with saying 70% @grim jay, maybe the wrong approach to open a discussion like that
vestal wren
i don't want to be dragged into a mud fight just because one person assumes there is bad intend
tame tangle
y’all gonna trigger whispyrs villian arc
sullen quest
Sorry for the curt responses, just not all there right now, I'll agree the resou...
Oh no please, I'm super grateful for your responses and even though you think it's fine to talk about it here, it kinda isn't the time and place. I understand that the entire issue is complicated by just a fundamental lack of knowledge about how to construct weakauras so the only way to help would be if you actually sat down and taught me, which would be crazy.
Actually didn't think about that there might just be a WA discord to have this conversation instead.
Thanks again though, I do really appreciate it ^^
vestal wren
neither dungeon slice nor a small target sim is representative
but you can have a rough idea how much pull by pull you lose
grim jay
simply by stating that there is a impact is not a problem
yet again, it was about the scale of impact mainly and overdramatizing doesnt help any player with that question that reads it
blissful forge
can we maybe end this discussion now and live in peace 2gether again at the end of the day we're all rogue enjoyers? ❤️
blissful forge
yet again, it was about the scale of impact mainly and overdramatizing doesnt he...
yeah thats true and im sorry for that 🤷🏿♂️
tame tangle
can we maybe end this discussion now and live in peace 2gether again at the end ...
for about 20 min maybe yea
sullen quest
I think it might be a good idea to add an asterix to the bot command regarding how missing a restealth every now and then isn't a big deal but consistently missing restealths on every single pull through a tank that's chaining or spitefuls, could end up being rather significant?
Then again I know nothing
vestal wren
i can't say how much this translates in m+
if you have only few pulls you would be able to stealth and you lose that its low impact
grim jay
yeah thats true and im sorry for that 🤷🏿♂️
yeah its fine now, we all dont want new people to get the wrong idea with such a "hot topic" and I think we all got our point across
no bad blood
royal lantern
But what if this happens on every single pull, suddenly the number is hugely imp...
allright, check your garrote dmg over an entire dungeon run
now take ~40% of it (and thats generous) cus that would be stealth garrotes
now take ~50% of that 40% garrote dmg away
grim jay
royal lantern
thats the "big stealth dmg" thats missing
sullen quest
allright, check your garrote dmg over an entire dungeon run
now take ~40% of it...
But it's not just garrote, it's energy regen and GCDs that you're missing out on
crisp pine
Im gonna ask Metzen himself to just remove Stealth at this point
sullen quest
Anyway I shouldn't be having this conversation
grim jay
if you have only few pulls you would be able to stealth and you lose that its lo...
its hard to accurately say, even with logs. if you can like dance on every pack you couldnt restealth for it might even be not different at all
sullen quest
Yeah if you can
vestal wren
I think my initial statement did rly nail it
the bottom line is, it makes little sense to get angry about no re-stealths
because, you can't change anything about it, and it is easier to lose focus and play worse when getting upset
grim jay
I think my initial statement did rly nail it
> the bottom line is, it makes litt...
probably. its like how it snowballs through the fight if you did a stupid mistake and get hung up about it
vestal wren
you probably should reroll to warrior
quiet oar
vestal wren
they have a spec that has it as their identity
quiet oar
Or dh
shut owl
my experience has generally been that anyone aboslutely losing their mind about restealths all dungeon long, even with SD now, is not at the level of sin that it matters 
blissful forge
no bad blood
🤝
tame tangle
i don’t do m+ as sin but i’m assuming you don’t reserve vanish / dance for kb and use them for ic on weeks like spiteful?
vestal wren
shut owl
got to watch my friend have his 23 tide ruined by a rogue doing 80k overall. "cuz we don't restealth".... in the middle of gauntlet
crisp pine
got to watch my friend have his 23 tide ruined by a rogue doing 80k overall. "cu...
That was probably me, sorry about that
slate crown
Oh no please, I'm super grateful for your responses and even though you think it...
It's ok to ask WA questions here, plenty of folks are knowledgable in here, but yes there is a WeakAuras discord where you can also ask for help
spice surge
no stealth
Thats also assuming you dont edit the apl in any way to for example, vanish at the start instead of at 3 sec left of kb
shut owl
doubtful, there were slurs slung XD
crisp pine
oh
shut owl
by virtue of having pronouns on your discord profile I'd say prolly not you lol
crisp pine
I don't have pronouns actually
or a name
Please do not refer to me in any way
spice surge
Or even dancing at the start to spread those bleeds, which is gonna be more than getting 10% on envenoms during kb 
quick wedge
got to watch my friend have his 23 tide ruined by a rogue doing 80k overall. "cu...
As a new rogue have same shit this week. I just apply rupters one by one and at the end of pack i just doing tank dmg
quick wedge
ofc when i have no stealth
shut owl
110% not what I said.
quick wedge
bro i didn't apply 5 raptures and packs are dead 😄
sullen quest
I've been playing assa for a day, and up to 20s things dont live more than 5 gcds, very fun
shut owl
do higher keys. welcome to being a dot class when your gear outscales enemy hp
quick wedge
i think is just better to garrote, rupture one target and envo
when pack dying so fast
shut owl
depends on your build, but thats a thing you can do
quick wedge
shut owl
okay
so
thats the cleave build
you don't need to spread dots on that
as much
crank hard, only rupture for energy really
quick wedge
how many target i need to rupture to spam envo?
sullen quest
Cleave build is probably preferable this week on low keys ?
vestal wren
Thats also assuming you dont edit the apl in any way to for example, vanish at t...
yes absolutely, i assume you would need to modify the apl to get a more accurate representation
shut owl
take crimson tempest if you want higher overall when things are being murdered faster than you can do setup
cleave build is great at killing bosses, and is great at high keys. you're gonna have poopoo overall compared to the DH or ret with lego just going ham on trash
vestal wren
the point was simply to illustrate that there is a real impact on not having the option to stealth even if it does not matter over the duration of a key.
sullen quest
but you go about your day nonetheless
last time I stubbed my toe I went about my day and then stubbed it again and at that point it was sitting at a 90 degree angle from my foot
shut owl
stubbing your toe, while a notable impact on your day, doesn't make you suddenly unable to be alive.
shut owl
see, I just wait in stealth until the tank grows a pair and actually pulls
quick wedge
If i take crimson I need to use it instead of envo on pack or just extend dot?
shut owl
you cast it only to keep dot
sullen quest
I just stay in stealth until I feel like my tank has pulled enough
If he doesn't pull enough, I don't come out of stealth
vestal wren
the true rogue way
shut owl
you should probably take a review of the guides/whispyr's aoe/m+ vids kodzax
quick wedge
i will
tame tangle
ya
jaunty nest
ok ty ty
sullen quest
trick question, it doesnt drop at all
jaunty nest
juts cus i did it for 3 weeks n i never seen it T_T
its a myth
what is the drop rate
vestal wren
trick question, it doesnt drop at all
only in weekly vaults ^^
shut owl
now thats a lie
quick wedge
low i just did 16 Fall and still don't have
vestal wren
now *thats* a lie
i have anecdotal evidence to support my thesis, i have a nick of time from vault
shut owl
I've had 4 vaults of 0-0.2% gain takes. been a fun season for vaults lol.
vestal wren
(i am joking, i know that the chance to get it in vault is fairly low)
jaunty nest
what does the tokens do
shut owl
socket
limber lion
sockets
shut owl
for when I get gear
quick wedge
If you got 3 tokens maybe its time for lariat XD
limber lion
if only you couldn't just buy sockets from the ah for it
sullen quest
I main ret, playing without acrobatic strikes is the fucking worst
slate crown
It's a drug that we should not have been given. You adjust quickly, we used to get it in every talent build pre-10.2
sullen quest
that's what I thought yeah
slate crown
Now most don't, but it's still possible to take it if you want it
sullen quest
but now it seems impossible to slot in
slate crown
Like if it's QoL you enjoy, it really is not a big deal to take it
it doesn't demolish your damage
It does reduce it, sure, but like, that's the point of QoL, you want it for other benefits, and in cases where you literally cannot dps without standing in ground effects unless you take it, it is a dps increase
Though I should also say, it flatly, on its own, is a dps talent
sullen quest
what to even drop, deadened nerves & spender?
slate crown
You have to drop something in the capstone row
fickle latch
Do you guys run Branch on Larodar Mythic ?
slate crown
You can drop Tea, or you can drop dance, or you can drop deeper
limber lion
You drop tea
slate crown
Dance is almost a no-go
sullen quest
ah
slate crown
ever
Tea is a common pick to drop, personally I prefer dropping deeper for it because I like tea
but up to you
Play around with it and see what works best for you
sullen quest
limber lion
Honestly
Deeper might be the best choice to drop now that we've changed the finisher rule to be 4+ combo points
let's do a quickie and see
Deeper 3, Tea 4, Dance 2
Idk how tea's 8.4%
slate crown
Yeah I did some tests on this
But I think the sims are expired
Deeper for me was slightly better than tea
sullen quest
the 4.3% loss is deeper?
limber lion
the 4.3% loss is deeper?
yes
vestal wren
(i think he dropped deeper for acro, also please don't take this statement too serious)
slate crown
My original argument was like, I honestly didn't feel the deeper drop
But I felt dropping tea
Just subjectively, before even simming
vestal wren
8.4% is quite a lot
slate crown
But then yeah, dropping deeper isn't bad
midnight atlas
(i think he dropped deeper for acro, also please don't take this statement too s...
He said in a stream the reason being that he cannot understand how to play without acro, but i might be wrong also since he talks like xqc sometimes
vestal wren
haha
sullen quest
He said in a stream the reason being that he cannot understand how to play witho...
as ret main I can relate
holy fuck the game is painful without
sullen quest
every melee should just get +2-3 extra baseline
vestal wren
it is possibly less relevant on sin, sub now needs to keep aas running for sht procs due to energy problems
outlaw also relies quite a bit on acro
proven jasper
i really didnt notice the transition that much, sure there is definitely specific times where im like damn acro would be dope here but
idk i think playing without it is fine
vestal wren
agree, i think all melees should get the +3 range baseline
proven jasper
Truth
pure sail
i really didnt notice the transition that much, sure there is definitely specifi...
Like DHT between 1st and 2nd boss
vestal wren
i noticed it on sub, esp. if you position in a way you want to keep auto attacking
i didn't play enough sin to give a statement, but i would assume there is less reliance on aas
proven jasper
i havent played much sub since season 1 so i cant speak on it but yeah on ass i think it’s definitely not that bad feeling playing without it
pure sail
It’s more punishing tho
proven jasper
with how cucked melee gets constantly though i really do think they all should just get the +4
+3 sorry
Seems fair to me
midnight atlas
as ret main I can relate
i did heroic last season on ret pala, half my rotation was ranged
sullen quest
ret does negative damage, and has severe damage profile/talent issues, but man the QOL through defensives and ability to hit from absurd ranges, is insane
playing a real melee spec takes some getting used to again
midnight atlas
they got 1 min burst 
thats useful af
limber lion
at 483ilv i sim 208k
and even less on assassination
sullen quest
for sure
chilly light
guys assa on spiteful am i super bad or does spiteful cancel us
sullen quest
it doesn't
limber lion
guys assa on spiteful am i super bad or does spiteful cancel us
bit of both
need to learn to get stealths whenever possible
but sometimes it's just not possible
and that's fine
gilded gorge
You can use shadwodance and vanish to make it a lot better
sullen quest
if they're end of pack spitefuls you can often get into stealth real quick
midnight atlas
its ok, its fun, i play DTB this week to proc crippling on them and kite a bit
storm monolith
man i got mcfuckled
storm cloak
I simply like 211 k as a frost mage at 476. It’s wonderful
storm monolith
throne of tides SUCKS
midnight atlas
there's a weakaura for last boss that lowers particle density for his bullshit ink
ez to see
midnight atlas
ah yeah that room is stupid
sullen quest
those fucking oozes just will not stop
acrobatic strikes ^^
storm monolith
458 and i was in a 14
sullen quest
uhm
limber lion
that's fine
sullen quest
ive been doing 20s all day in 440-450
limber lion
I was doing 20's with 445 ilvl
limber lion
it's actually good practice to push it a bit
instead of staying in the comfy range
but of course each to their own
storm monolith
fun fact, to all the people who are not rogues but are still in this discord: KIDNEY SHOT HAS A COOLDOWN
sullen quest
but yeah HP can be problematic when doing higher keys with lower gear
Some mechanics hurt
storm monolith
those fuckers that cause damage and healing reduction can eat a dick
same with the people telling me to handle all of them
sullen quest
you mean incorp?
you can blind almost every set
blind is insta, pretty chill
on my ret I have to stand there and cast repetance for 7 seconds
storm monolith
it'd be nice if the DEMON HUNTER AND HUNTER would cc them too, but i'm
fine
totally fine
sullen quest
Anyone with insta should do it every time they have it off cd
quick wedge
Again get gapped on thrash b4 2secound boss on Fall. First pack on right all in big guy b4 pack come out from portal (top dps) then i just ST most hp mob trying to deal dmg from tier and CS. Any tips what i could do better?
midnight atlas
same with the people telling me to handle all of them
just blind one and chill, if cast goes through from the other one you still did well
sullen quest
yup
midnight atlas
it'd be nice if the DEMON HUNTER AND HUNTER would cc them too, but i'm
i told you, its the quality of ppl you find in 14s, climb as much as you can to find better ppl
storm monolith
next stop is galakrond's fall
which i haven't done before
32 deaths on that squad by the way in the 14
viscid spear
Did I miss when Sin was fun in dungeons? 
Did a TW and it was fun.
sullen quest
I put "rat alts" in my key titles and I'm doing keys with a bunch of rats who have no gear but know mechanics, and I'm having a blast
midnight atlas
which i haven't done before
watch a guide or something, fall is punishing
timer is free but can still fuck up easilly
storm monolith
oh that's cringe
why did they make vault like this
you don't even have to time a key for the vault to give you the key level as a reward
midnight atlas
if you dont time it gives key-1 level
sullen quest
you're talking about different things
sullen quest
you talking about getting a key back next week, or whether or not it counts as 14 for your vault slot unlock?
storm monolith
i'm talking about the Great Vault says that next week upon opening, for one option it is a 14 (473 ilvl). i did not time the throne key, and that is the only 14 i've done
limber lion
you don't even have to time a key for the vault to give you the key level as a r...
That's always been the case since Legion
So you can get the best vault on any character even if you don't time it
storm monolith
i think that's silly. why should you get a reward for not timing it
limber lion
Why not?
storm monolith
because you didn't succeed
storm monolith
difference in opinion then. if you don't do it within the timeframe i don't consider that a success
limber lion
Clearing like a 20 even if not within the timeframe is still an achievement for some people
Some people legitimately never clear that high because they simply cannot deal with the mechanics or whatever in the dungeon
not because they're lacking in gear or whatnot
Also if it was only tied to timed runs, that would mean that people would only run the one single dungeon that is the easiest to time for vault
and that's not really good design
sullen quest
I think if you don't time a key the level of your key should drop back down to 2, otherwise you're not being punished enough for failing
vestal wren
there are two objectives to a dungeon:
- timing the dungoen -> reward: more loot + key stone upgrade/option to re-roll keystone
- completing the dungeon run -> reward: reduced loot and weekly vault
the system seems good
sullen quest
yup
vestal wren
if anything it would be better if you could control what loot you get in vault more
sullen quest
asides from key level downgrading which breeds toxicity and meta-only inviting
god knows why they're so adamant on keeping that stupid mechanic
midnight atlas
if anything it would be better if you could control what loot you get in vault m...
like the tokens they added in fated sl to buy gear from raid
vestal wren
because the loot pool of m+ is so big, you get very fast in a state where vault drops barely matter
unless its specific items
storm monolith
Also if it was only tied to timed runs, that would mean that people would only r...
my fix to that would be that you only get level rewards from the vault for timing keys in distinct dungeons. if you clear a 20, then you get the single 20 reward. however, in order to get the 4 20's reward, you have to get 20s in 4 different dungeons
midnight atlas
i didnt get shit from m+ this season, branch 463 week 1 and just offpieces with bad stats
storm monolith
yooooooooo this second boss from galakrond's fall is cool
sullen quest
But you're wanting to complicate and punish for no reason whatsoever, there's 2 sides to m+: gear and score, the former is for everyone, it doesn't need to be gatekept
midnight atlas
watch this dude get nick of time by the end of fall
vestal wren
gear is already way to impactful
if anything you would want to make the entry to m+ easier
sullen quest
absolutely
vestal wren
to get a bigger player pool
storm monolith
ok he isn't cool anymore
sullen quest
Frustrating people out of M+ early makes everyone lose
vestal wren
blizz is actively looking into m+
iirc there was a blue post about introducing more punishment for leaving keys
sullen quest
Stop punishing players and they won't feel the need to leave
Rather than punishing players for responding to bad game design
storm monolith
ok this third boss is
what the fuck is this
this almost seems like a raid boss not a dungeon boss
midnight atlas
3rd boss is dope for assa
blissful forge
tbf imo what makes ppl leave from keys is just ppl being mad in /p chat
and dogshitting on other ppl
sullen quest
I don't think I've ever seen anyone leave over chat
storm monolith
i have
blissful forge
if every1 would just play and wouldnt type as much it would already help alot
storm monolith
the silence can be worse than anything somebody could say
sullen quest
In my experience people leave because others in the group feel like it's okay to enter a 20+ key with having 0 knowledge about the dungeon
Which is downright disrespectful towards the other 4
blissful forge
I don't think I've ever seen anyone leave over chat
daily base for me in high key pugging ._.
storm monolith
In my experience people leave because others in the group feel like it's okay to...
i'm the jackass who did that in tides in a 14 
sullen quest
Idc what you do in a 14
sullen quest
There's a certain key level where it's probably fine to go in blind, in order to learn by doing
above 20 is not it
midnight atlas
you dont learn everything in lower keys because some smallish mechanics can be ignored, you'll keep learning as you do higher keys
sullen quest
And it's on blizzard also to keep things both challenging yet simple enough to not require a PhD to play at a normal level
midnight atlas
but dont start with high
sullen quest
They should make tags for it, Destiny 2 did it recently
midnight atlas
i think 20's are ok even for casual play, with some gear and knowledge any spec can time it.
sullen quest
This group is:
"chill/relaxed"
"learning"
"teaching run"
"hardcore/meta comp only"
"must know mechanics"
storm monolith
man Iridikron is a huge let down compared to the 3rd boss
storm monolith
"meta comp only" is fucking hilarious
that would mean blizzard identifies the meta comp
sullen quest
It's just a tag for your group
storm monolith
say that you had the tag
sullen quest
like we have "beat timer" right now
storm monolith
and someone joined that wasn't a part of the defined meta
what if some jerk wanted to report that player
sullen quest
Alright we scrap the meta comp tag, it's not that deep
midnight atlas
whats the meta now? aug, havoc, mage, vengeace, disc?
storm monolith
oh that's all magic damage lmao
sullen quest
whats the meta now? aug, havoc, mage, vengeace, disc?
might be WW over havoc
gotta wait for the numbers to roll in
sullen quest
was, yes
storm monolith
were the buffs it received that impactful?
sullen quest
yeah ww kinda crazy rn
midnight atlas
buff mage and ww but nerf assa, blizz crazy
storm monolith
alright, i'm gonna see if i can't join a 10 galakrond fall
just to get the mechs down
i don't want a repeat performance of that tides 14
sullen quest
there's 5 min bite sized videos on the official blizz channel
naguura does fall and dratnos does rise
I think
they're pretty solid
sullen quest
for sure
midnight atlas
yeah just join keys
sullen quest
you watch the vid and you do it, then you watch it again and some things might fall in to place better, then you do it again
midnight atlas
keep shroud ready, there's usually skips in fall
sullen quest
I just spam my own key if I wanna learn by doing and then appologise to everyone at the end for sucking
crisp pine
I just blame my teammates
sullen quest
It's reverse psychology
storm monolith
man tanks are silly
sullen quest
If you make yourself vulnurable by saying you suck
everyone will trade you loot they dont need
storm monolith
why does this dh have 1.2m hp
storm monolith
If you make yourself vulnurable by saying you suck
i did that in tides and got a wrist piece uwu
sullen quest
see, it works
junior yoke
storm monolith
ok that wasn't so bad
i thought juggling that thing on third boss would be horrid
but it was easy
because we are blessed with the sprint button
hmmmmmmmm.........
i've got 2/8 champion chest, do i transform that into set?
midnight atlas
if its the only piece you get wait until you get another one at least
maybe you loot tier from raid
midnight atlas
then still wait until you loot other pieces for catalyst
red hearth
well fuck me sideways.
me, yesterday: "isn't Assa supposed to be good in 10.2? Why does starting the new zone feel just so painful? iLvl 393 isn't terrible"
me, today: oops
sweet dawn
What would you guys say is the breakpoint for garrote/rupture uptime in raid to start going yikes?
limber lion
anything under 95%
It should be 100% up after the initial application
I mean, both Garrote and Rupture
old halo
damn im usually like 85%
sullen quest
think that's the closest i've ever gotten
sullen quest
19 tott, but on my 450 first day rat assa rogue
sullen quest
asides from the attack range, it's a pretty good time
pseudo hamlet
19 tott, but on my 450 first day rat assa rogue
What was your DPS anyway? Just wondering!
sullen quest
105
storm forum
if you can get the opener down, its not hard
glacial lantern
I see
glacial lantern
After the rework it seems that assassination actually has good aoe options for m+ so i might try it, but is that only with the tier set?
sullen quest
I'm a ret main, my brain is literally smooth, so for me as first day assa going from +2 to +20, it's definitely challenging
storm forum
we have good AoE options with and without tier. Set is OP in AoE though, like we drop some AoE talents and dont lose anything strong
glacial lantern
Also wanna try sin/sub more becuase my opinion on outlaw has been eroded a bit due to some pretty significant issues i have with the spec
viscid spear
So does Indiscriminate Carnage act smart in a large group? Like if I Garrote something, then Garrote another thing that doesn't have Garrote, that would be 6 targets affected by Garrote?
And is Sudden Demise an instant execute?
sullen quest
So does Indiscriminate Carnage act smart in a large group? Like if I Garrote som...
yes to IC
storm forum
yeah Sudden Demise is instant. If the mob meets the threshold they just die
glacial lantern
I guess it should in theory, it does this for moonfire
storm forum
and you cackle maniacally
sullen quest
if you target swap with IC its 6, otherwise it's 5
glacial lantern
How does sudden demise work exactly?
haughty flicker
it kills things
glacial lantern
That's obvious, but how
sullen quest
I don't think I can explain it better than the tooltip
haughty flicker
idk how to explain it better than the tooltip does
glacial lantern
Kinda like touch of death but passive?
storm forum
your bleeds create a threshold equal to a % of their damage that updates automatically. if the enemy health reaches that threshold they die.
sullen quest
If the bleeds on the target amount to a total of more than 150% of the remaining hp, it instantly deals all of it and executes them
glacial lantern
So basically if the damage of the bleed exceeds the health of the target it insta kills
storm forum
its not efficient, and you shouldnt play around it, but it makes DoTing lower hp targets feel less bad
glacial lantern
Allright
viscid spear
if you target swap with IC its 6, otherwise it's 5
Okay, so it does apply Garrote/Rupture to things that don't have it
sullen quest
So basically if the damage of the bleed exceeds the health of the target it inst...
no, 150%
exceeds 150%
glacial lantern
Even better
sullen quest
Worse, that means some damage is lost
viscid spear
yeah Sudden Demise is instant. If the mob meets the threshold they just die
Was doing TWs and everything would just suddenly die, lmao
sullen quest
Okay, so it does apply Garrote/Rupture to things that don't have it
yup
slim hamlet
!up
prisma monolithBOT
viscid spear
Got this from the cache
sullen quest
So like if they have 100 hp, my bleed would need to have a total of 150 damage left to deal, and then they're executed for 100 dmg, so 50 dmg is lost
someone please correct me if I'm wrong
you basically lose a third
storm forum
yeah
main blaze
Well you dont "lose" a third. If the enemy was left to tick down you gained whatever damage you would have lost from leaving up a bleed with too much damage remaining.
viscid spear
Someone's looking to make a comeback
quiet oar
Someone's looking to make a comeback
You are still a Mage 
merry thunder
what is the most effective usage of witherbarks branch?
vestal wren
collect 2, delay 3rd orb as much as you can
static glacier
what is the most effective usage of witherbarks branch?
macro to dm, walk forward and right to 1 orb then strafe left for 2nd, kite the 3rd one til kingsbane is 10s, then take it
slate crown
Delay 3rd orb at least 4 seconds, after that pick up whenever, just be sure to pick it up
merry thunder
i see thank you ill try that!
blissful forge
old season gear is completly fine if you do rota good
balmy condor
won't get into pugs below at least 470 I would think
blissful forge
but ppl prob wont take you if you are below 460ish
storm forum
460 should be good enough, but most pugs will want higher
blissful forge
what whispyr said, pugs are aiming for 470-475+
storm forum
rip
blissful forge
you easily get into a prog group with that gear 🤷🏿♂️
slate crown
I cleared heroic at 449 in a pug in the second week
but that was second week so everyone was low
storm forum
the timewalking raid this week has a quest for a heroic piece of a gear if you wanna do that
slate crown
Now people will gate on gear hard
glacial lantern
Does assassination only have good aoe with the 4set?
storm monolith
well, i gotta get off
time to clean up for christmas party
it's been fun, doing keys and raid all day and getting zero loot
static glacier
Does assassination only have good aoe with the 4set?
outside of cds kinda yeah
glacial lantern
I see
static glacier
you can talent into good AoE
even talenting for aoe, the fact 4pc feeds into caustic makes it insane
storm forum
mostly single target build and caustic + poison bomb + 4 set
glacial lantern
the 4 set is kinda similar to an idea i had sometime ago about sin rogue
storm monolith
i'm 460 now 🙂
storm forum
🙂
storm forum
you never know
storm forum
I mostly like everbloom, besides the mage area
glacial lantern
Huh, exactly how strong is the set for sin rogue?
glacial lantern
Yea, i thought so, i need to sim for st too
Because right now the sim is significantly behind outlaw or sub
main blaze
yeah assn got nerfed a few times
storm forum
assa not behind enough for me to swap
cause i can do like sim dps as sin
and like 50% sim dps for the other specs
glacial lantern
Yea but i don't have the 4 set that's why i was wondering
storm forum
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
glacial lantern
I see, then i guess sin rogue is one of those specs that sacrifices a lot of st for aoe
storm forum
yeah, thats part of why the tier set is so good for us
we can talent back into ST
and rely on tier set for AoE
glacial lantern
If i were blizz, i would probably add a interaction that makes envenom cleave a portion of it's damage to targets affected by crimsone tempest
storm forum
we already have that, but without CT
glacial lantern
After this tier set is over
storm forum
spatter already cleaves envenom damage
balmy condor
I see, then i guess sin rogue is one of those specs that sacrifices a lot of st ...
?????????
storm forum
i think increasing that only on CT'd targets is kind of redundant
balmy condor
we're one of the better aoe classes
glacial lantern
Does it? Is envenom considered as a poison
balmy condor
with legit 1 talent swap
caustic spatter cleaves all nature damage
envenom, poison bomb
the tier set
glacial lantern
Oh i see
balmy condor
poison applications, sepsis if it wasn't dogshit
the extra mut damage from vicious venoms as well technically
storm forum
we only lose a lot of ST if we go for a lot of AoE like the Shock build
balmy condor
even then not really though
storm forum
we're not losing ret paladin amounts
storm monolith
whispyr carry me in heroic 
storm forum
but we'd lose a good amount
balmy condor
this is like a 15-20% loss for the biggest aoe builds we got
balmy condor
whispyr carry me in heroic <:prayge:803711491021733888>
do you already have a group
storm monolith
get that pasta out of here
no i was just joking
i couldn't get into heroic even if i wanted to
gear too low
not to mention, i'm not good enough at the game to be doing heroic anyways
balmy condor
I see
storm monolith
at least, not now
balmy condor
well my guild does heroic carries 
balmy condor
yepge
storm monolith
i need to stop procrastinating and go do story with my rogue so i can actually do keys
mistweaver is fun and all, but seeing dps die all the time to stupid shit that i can't heal them for is taking it's toll
i wanna just play dps and not care about others
storm forum
reject progression, embrace shitposting in class discords
storm monolith
also i wanna see big numbers
anyways i really do need to leave now, gotta clean house
storm forum
healers have the bigest numbers
storm monolith
yeah i'm a bit disappointed
my "raid" talents are actually healing less and doing less damage than my m+ talent tree
storm monolith
faeline stomp is just too broken
storm monolith
i must be playing it wrong then
i'm using mists on cooldown and throwing out my instant procs when i can
but it just doesn't keep up with faeline nonsense
storm forum
yeah i dont remember it exactly
but iirc you spread ur HoT on the whole raid and then cleave spam
i think its vivify
that cleaves everyone with your HoTs
rapid mirage
!up
prisma monolithBOT
glacial lantern
Should you just keep death mark for st bosses?
storm forum
yeah DM makes KB go crazy which makes AoE go crazy
sullen quest
I wasn't entirely sure because of the wording, but DM basically doubles the amount of lethal poison applications, which in turn makes KB ramp twice as fast right?
balmy condor
yes
sullen quest
balmy condor
that's why we never deathmark by itself
sullen quest
makes sense
glacial lantern
Can it duplicate king?
glacial lantern
I see
storm forum
dumplicate lmao
sullen quest
Kingsbane is refered to as a lethal poison in its tooltip
If only it got duplicated
storm forum
yeah, sass has a history of bad tooltips
past forum
DM+KB definitely does take a dump on bosses
sullen quest
So technically DM should duplicate KB and KB should also make itsself ramp
storm forum
like every spell/talent that references aplifying poisons or nature damage affecting different poisons.
they might have standarized that now, but back in BFA it wasnt
sullen quest
Yeah these things are usually just manually whitelisted rather than enabled because of a tooltip wording
storm forum
So technically DM should duplicate KB and KB should also make itsself ramp
yeah if the tooltips were standardized and made sense, that would happen. but WoW is a lasagna of spaghetti so thats not happening
sullen quest
unlucky
storm forum
iirc back in legion, some of our stuff affected poison damage trinkets but not envenom
that was a funny
sullen quest
classic
balmy condor
So technically DM should duplicate KB and KB should also make itsself ramp
technically the deathmark tooltip is wrong, should say "lethal WEAPON poisons"
slate crown
I mean it would kinda be giga busted if it did, it’s double dipping
sullen quest
yeah that would make more sense
balmy condor
you'd get into exponential scaling
sullen quest
I know ofcourse it shouldnt actually work like that
But it'd be cool
Didn't we have that during legion beta with exsanguinate
balmy condor
exsanguinate and what
sullen quest
some shenanigans where damage scaling just went off the charts
storm forum
i'd like to see KB do 1 damage to start and double every time any poison dealt damage, including itself, that sounds fair and balanced
storm forum
(it is not fair or balanced)