assassination

[storm monolith]

I heard mention (idk if it was you or someone else) that many average players wouldn't benefit from high mastery on sin. Why is that?

[balmy condor]

uh

idk

seems pretty cooked

[keen spruce]

probably related to witherbark branch covering most of the mastery you need

[distant frigate]

hey guys, quick question. since this week is really not fun for assa, we playing some other build?

[balmy condor]

mastery isn't discriminatory against skill levels

[keen spruce]

so robot doesn't want you to go find a bunch more from other sources

[distant frigate]

like bleed thingy in tree?

[balmy condor]

it's not the US government

[balmy condor]

probably just cleave

[strange python]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[storm monolith]

Is it a diminishing returns thing with branch? More mastery you get, the less effective it would be compared to getting that same amount in a different stat?

[distant frigate]

ty!

[balmy condor]

ye that is a thing

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Mast = Crit = Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs like Witherbark's Branch and Wafting Devotion can often de-value the stat in question. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

[balmy condor]

branch and wafting here

getting a huge burst of +a billion to a stat

during your cooldowns

means that the specific stat in question

probably sucks to get more

[rare owl]

Is there a place I can post my logs for someone to look over them and help me out?

[storm monolith]

I SAW THAT COW

GET BACK HERE

[strange python]

wasnt me

[storm monolith]

YOUR NAME IS LITERALLY VAEL

[strange python]

[balmy condor]

@woeful meteor

[storm forum]

Insane execute value

[balmy condor]

as I zoomed in more and more the graph actually just broke

like you get bars and stuff

but then you zoom in so much

it stops rendering as a bar graph

and just gives you a line

it's quite good

[storm monolith]

the joke is that it's actually spelled veal, which is the meat of a calf

[balmy condor]

could be a pun on veil

since like

rogue

but idk

[storm monolith]

@balmy condor also despite how upset you are talking to me, I gotta give mad respect to you for not being a default shit discord mod who mutes me to power trip. You explained your position and what you've done in regards to what we talked about, and I couldn't be more satisfied

Even if I ended up being on the losing side, having explanations feels awesome

[balmy condor]

I mute people cause they break rules, not cause they give me aneurysms

[storm monolith]

[balmy condor]

the aneurysms are just an unavoidable consequence of reading internet words

[strange python]

And that's why I got Whispyr to sign my backpack at blizzcon

[storm monolith]

Bro would you sign my daggers at next blizzcon?

[thin portal]

Whats a good single target damage range for 473?

[storm monolith]

Doesn't simming tell you that?

[balmy condor]

I'll sign anything

[storm monolith]

Poor choice of words

[thin portal]

Yeah but it's lower than my outlaw Sim and my outlaw Sim wasn't that high lol

[balmy condor]

I'm not known for having a good choice of words

not really my style

[storm monolith]

pulls out marriage contract right here buddy

[balmy condor]

but yeh if people take time out of their day at a convention to specifically try and see me

they can have whatever

why wouldn't I

[quiet oar]

Sins Simdps was always low

[storm monolith]

I was also under the impression that outlaw just on average was doing better than sin right now anyways

[balmy condor]

if you remove sins crazy burst from the equation, would be true yeh

but burst is valuable

[quiet oar]

Ye

[balmy condor]

so outlaw is kinda sad

[quiet oar]

Pi and aug is still strong

On sin

[balmy condor]

but on paper at least if you just run it for a number

flat profiles are very good

[storm monolith]

Bro seeing a group of mobs below 20% just IMPLODE feels so cool

[balmy condor]

thats why dungeonslice is so good for outlaw for example

[thin portal]

My outlaw Sim single target is 190k. My sin is 181k. So should that be my goal to reach with current gear?

[limber aurora]

spiteful is so annoying when the group doesnt kill the shades and you cant stealth into the next pull

[quiet oar]

Yes

9k difference kek

[thin portal]

Sin is lower, even with branch.

[balmy condor]

sin struggles to get a full ramp off and get good cooldown use and shit in a synthetic situation like dungeonslice, while outlaw just brrrrrrrrr

[quiet oar]

My Outlaw sim and sin sim are 20k

[storm monolith]

My sim is 0

[balmy condor]

kinda based

[quiet oar]

Oh boi i have a Screenshot for you

[thin portal]

I sim for single target on patchwerk

[quiet oar]

Wrong ine

Fuck

[balmy condor]

my eyes

[storm monolith]

So purple

[balmy condor]

the screenshot somehow gets worse

every time you link it

[storm monolith]

Why do restealths not matter

[quiet oar]

If you ping your original message

I would link to the pin

[balmy condor]

I'm glad you asked

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

Long In-depth explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:
https://youtu.be/DoZDPFk_Zog
The TLDW (I understand, it's LONG):

• Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
• This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths
• You still have vanish and in 10.2, shadow dance, which gives you MANY options to get your stealth effects
• This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years

[quiet oar]

Woah self promo

[waxen oyster]

then there's sub

[quiet oar]

Do you have to banana yourself

[strange python]

https://tenor.com/view/bender-futurama-neat-wow-gif-5744318

[limber aurora]

yes but what about indiscriminate carnage

[waxen oyster]

which people are slowly realizing has never been bad

[balmy condor]

yes but what about it

it's a talent that exists

[storm monolith]

Oh cool I can watch something during dinner now

[balmy condor]

you still have dance

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nfLN6DtAaZYB3MvNtCjbbi

[storm monolith]

I was gonna watch one of your vods but I guess this will do

[balmy condor]

eat sim

[quiet oar]

Its the stealth and sneaky spec, that doesnt care about restealths imagine

[balmy condor]

feel free to double check

and make sure that it's not restealthing

[waxen oyster]

hey you get

[storm monolith]

If we have a sub rogue why don't we have a Dom rogue?

[waxen oyster]

....2 more shadowstrikes

[limber aurora]

how do you apply your garrote in aoe if you just used shadow dance the pull before :C

[waxen oyster]

for stealthing

[balmy condor]

you don't

you either vanish

or you just envenom spam for caustic

and live your best life

[storm monolith]

Fan of knives though.....

[balmy condor]

also dance is 1 min how fast are you slamming keys where it's not up

[quiet oar]

Thsts Outlaw

[storm monolith]

OH SHIT OUTLAW HAS A CHAIN IT IS THE DOM

[thin portal]

Damnit

[storm monolith]

Is Sin the spectator?

[thin portal]

Sin uses vanish in rotation?

[limber aurora]

lets say im aspiring

[waxen oyster]

man how did people think you multidotted before IC

[balmy condor]

it also holds people at gunpoint, which I guess is a kink for someone

[balmy condor]

of course

[waxen oyster]

sin has used it the most

as a rotational button

[thin portal]

I was hoping to save vanish for wipes. Oh well.

[slate crown]

Did I miss a restealths wall

[balmy condor]

kinda?

[waxen oyster]

outlaw and sub prior to this patch were the ones that cared about it less

[balmy condor]

I just info dumped cause I don't wanna type out another king james bible

did that earlier

I'm on cooldown

[limber aurora]

but its not just the garotte damage, its also the damage of sanguine blades
every pore of my body is revolting

[waxen oyster]

its such a minor loss

[limber aurora]

the silence from iron wire

[waxen oyster]

[balmy condor]

yeh the silence sucks

but if you're doing a scary pull

that needs a silence

the tank is going to pause for that

and not full barrel into it mid chain

[waxen oyster]

why would your tank be chaining into a scary pack

1 iq tank

[balmy condor]

so generally fine

also if you're doing a scary pull

[storm monolith]

He believes in his allies

[balmy condor]

that's what you're holding vanish for

so

:)

cause you're a good player

that knows the dungeon

and what is required

of your class

to succeed

right

:)

[storm monolith]

Kick is optional right?

:^)

[balmy condor]

why kick when aoe blind

[strange python]

AoE blind bis

[storm monolith]

Speaking of I need yo watch your vods I have zero clue when to use blind or distract

[royal lantern]

you just summed up m+ with 5 words

why interupt when aoe cc

[quiet oar]

Thats the neat part

Im not

[balmy condor]

but you have artistic outlaw rogue profile pic

and whispyr screenshot folder on your pc

and way too many messages here for a sane person

how could that be

[thin portal]

Hmmm

[storm monolith]

I'm still not convinced you arent the whispyr on wow head

[balmy condor]

wdym

I am

lmao

[quiet oar]

Nono

[storm monolith]

You ruined the joke

[quiet oar]

Its someone Different

[thin portal]

Will I miss acro playing sin or do u think when I get good the dmg gap will be worth not having acro hmmm

[balmy condor]

oh

I missed the original convo

[storm monolith]

Yesterday I made a comment on it being you and you told me it wasn't

[quiet oar]

Actually an AI version of my rogue

[balmy condor]

oh

I remember now

yeah

haha

you see my memory

is not good

[thin portal]

How do I know I'm doing sin rotation wrong? Outlaw is having no energy. Sin still seems to need pooling right, so how can I tell myself when I understand the rotation or not?

[strange python]

He didn't pandemic the memory for uptime

[balmy condor]

that's quite a philosophical question honestly

how do I know when I'm wrong

[quiet oar]

You log your run

And ask @spice spire

[balmy condor]

knowing you're wrong has to start with knowing what's right

so I guess obtaining the knowledge

of what it should look like

[thin portal]

Hmmm

[balmy condor]

and what things you need to do to reach a level of success

[strange python]

I know I do my rotation wrong, but I have stupid hands

[balmy condor]

and then taking the lessons you've learned from that

and applying it to yourself

[quiet oar]

Ok daddy

[thin portal]

Lol

[quiet oar]

Ill stop touching Hot stuff

[balmy condor]

but like, the "right" rotation has so many different meanings

[thin portal]

I guess I just need to learn on when to pool and when not to pool.

Right

[quiet oar]

!pool

[strange python]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[quiet oar]

Huh

[strange python]

Forgot your ing

[balmy condor]

there's actually a second video on pooling that isn't linked in that command

[thin portal]

Oh nice

[balmy condor]

bonus video

[thin portal]

Ty

[balmy condor]

where I say the same thing I said in the first

but with different words

[quiet oar]

Whispyr cutting content

To get more veiwer

Smh my head

[balmy condor]

it's like uploading a stream vod to youtube to double your views

except they're both on youtube

[quiet oar]

[balmy condor]

and neither was streamed

so really it's the same video twice but with a different shirt

[quiet oar]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/924436307202174976/1170474444624511078/giphy.gif?width=337&height=600

[balmy condor]

idfk, people seemed to like it anyway

[spice spire]

Gonna hit filter

[balmy condor]

do greens hit filter

[quiet oar]

[balmy condor]

I actually don't know

I know I could rip a gamer word right now and not hit filter

[spice spire]

Yes

We hit filter

[balmy condor]

unlucky

wow quake

I can't believe you would say that

[spice spire]

Yeah me neither dude

Unreal

[quiet oar]

Wtf quake

[spice spire]

I changed

[earnest remnant]

Quake when are you doing Subtlety log reviews?

[quiet oar]

Actually a good question

[steel stump]

Aug and priests saw assa nerf in patchnote so I'm not getting PI or buff anymore
ff

[potent dawn]

Time to ply sub

[spice spire]

I’m gonna hot filter fr this time

[steel stump]

delete aug and PI for real

[earnest remnant]

did you pour coffee through it or?

[royal lantern]

YES

[stuck knoll]

Oh shit I'm gonna filter

[quiet oar]

[balmy condor]

[fickle latch]

So much for the Blizzard doesnt balance arround externals. And the we get guys going like we are too op and now same guys crying haha

[thin portal]

If I feel like I never have to use tea, that mean I'm not doing enough envenoms

Sometimes I use tea tho

[spice spire]

Dog?

[balmy condor]

they don't though

[thin portal]

Whispr how often do you need to use tea

Personal question

Just to get an idea how often I need to use it.

When I read the guide I think it said to just not let it overlap and go to waste.

[runic hinge]

I try to drink it every night before bed

[balmy condor]

once per minute with kingsbane and then twice more before the end of the fight

[dark token]

After 1 day

It's ogre

[balmy condor]

95th mythic

[dark token]

Tbh balance is pretty good this patch all specs are close

When diff between top and bottom is <10% it's good

[stuck knoll]

[thin portal]

As a sin rogue, do any of you feel like yelling BANKAI when you use kingsbane? Or some other super power..

[arctic socket]

time to reroll sub

[thin portal]

[waxen oyster]

no i only scream profanity

when kb gets parried

[dark token]

Already did

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7JktmFcVKTkXx2D662QYUQ

[storm forum]

ngl, KB has only gotten parried once for me this tier. I feel pretty lucky.

[dark token]

Sub sim beats my sin with pi

2x bsl reroller

[arctic socket]

How does uh

branch feel on sub

[dark token]

Idk I don't use it I got mythic ashes today

But it feels better than on sin

[arctic socket]

is learning sub difficult or naw

[still sky]

Naw

[strange python]

Has there been a change in trinkets vaules with the nerfs ect ?

[thin portal]

New fear unlocked.

"Kingsbane was parried"

[storm forum]

KB goes on CD but the notter WA doesnt go up was actually the worst thing I ever saw in my life

[past forum]

The moment of confusion

[spice spire]

I don’t speak weeb sorry

[past forum]

And then the sinking feeling

[storm forum]

like, there have been some bad ones. Press KB but get a mechanic, press dance DM but KB is still on CD. See my priest PI'd me 10+ seconds early. Notter WA not increasing when doing damage to shields. But nothing worse than realizing that KB just did 0 fucking damage cause of an RNG mechanic from 20 years ago.

[hardy pawn]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[waxen oyster]

is bsl still good with half afk healers

[runic hinge]

Just get expertise gems

[storm forum]

idk if i was alive when expertise was a stat

[waxen oyster]

pretty sure sin's strength wasnt usually tied to a boss that is effectively a training dummy

[storm forum]

I mean, it's okay. Like we already knew this.

But a lot of Sin's strength, that gives it reason to be nerfed over the other specs, is how we line up with mechanics for the raid.

[waxen oyster]

wasnt sin already the lowest of the 3 specs

on patchwerk

community bases their perceptions too much on wcl of early bosses

[storm forum]

Spatter as a 1 point wonder early in the tree gives us free burst cleave that lines up well for a lot of fights.

[waxen oyster]

also when aug hooks were totally busted

heh

[storm forum]

also like 3 damage amp fights where we're top 3 biggest burst specs

[balmy condor]

sims also really fucking suck at modeling the fights this tier

[storm forum]

wait is it only gnarlroot and smold? i thought there was another one but i cant think of it

nvm its trindral

[waxen oyster]

yeah that too

[balmy condor]

like patchwerk is fine for gear comparisons

[waxen oyster]

sims are

5mins no mechanics

[balmy condor]

but looking at 5 min patchwerk

[waxen oyster]

no adds

[balmy condor]

and then being like

igira doesn't reflect it, why

well cause there's a billion spears

smolderon damage amp

gnarlroot has a damage amp

tindral has a damage amp and roots

fyrakk has adds

[waxen oyster]

nah outlaw fyrak trust

🐀

[balmy condor]

volcoross really the only fight that can be considered patchwerk

and volcoross is crumbling under gear creep

[waxen oyster]

nymue timings for sin

were better on prog

[balmy condor]

ye

[waxen oyster]

now it be like

pressed dm

oh boss dead

nice

[storm forum]

time to accelerate openers on nymue and do 0 damage to adds

[waxen oyster]

im prob just not playing nymue as sin on farm

[spice surge]

My guild killed it with 30 seconds left week one even, shit wasnt even built to last 1 week

[waxen oyster]

unless we have multiple rat alts

prolonging the kill

3:30 is a pretty time kill time on sub

honestly a bit surprised theres kill times on sin below 4mins but you prob hold dm

[storm forum]

2:30 kill time eventually

then sin will shine

[waxen oyster]

oh what the

highest 2 sin kills under 4min dm at 2min

prob higher if you hold that dm to 3 when boss is in exe too

[balmy condor]

sandbagging my spec

smh

[royal lantern]

well

if you wont do it

[waxen oyster]

dont warlocks sandbag their sims all the time

then say it just wasnt working

[balmy condor]

no

[royal lantern]

its mostly that in the past the warlock apl was just not maintained good

idk how it is rn

[balmy condor]

warlocks just were incompentent during shadowlands and didn't have theorycrafters

[waxen oyster]

is that better or worse than boomy theorycrafting

"play kyrian in cn"

[storm monolith]

Oh what? Whispyr isn't a cute gamer girl

[balmy condor]

I wish

smh

[storm monolith]

Watching your vid on restealth atm

[balmy condor]

just a femboy

[storm monolith]

You have a beard

[balmy condor]

yeah

[gilded gorge]

Is the passive on Shrouded Suffocation split in 2? (Dmg +20%) and (+2 pts in stealth)? or Both only from stealth?

[balmy condor]

it's the only way I don't look insano breedable

[median flicker]

Want to do some log Analysis does anyone have 1 that I can look at to see any differences in play?

[balmy condor]

the split

[storm monolith]

Fair

[gilded gorge]

Thanks

[royal python]

If i don't run galakrond fall, do I still get loot chance in vault for Nick of time

[balmy condor]

yep

[waxen oyster]

so unlike typical rogue player

[balmy condor]

the keys you run have no influence on your vault

[royal python]

Ok ty

[waxen oyster]

its because whispyr doesnt embrace the typical goth egirl pfp of sub players

[lavish wagon]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[balmy condor]

n m

fkin cat

[balmy condor]

its true

[odd ingot]

I'm happy with the results after nerf

Hurts my feelings but I still can keep it up

by playing it clean and not wasting any gcd in kingsbane duration

[storm monolith]

Ok restealths don't matter

[waxen oyster]

i mean all the nerf really did was negate the gains of your weekly cache

[storm monolith]

4% worst case scenario isn't worth the hemorrhoids

[odd ingot]

Exactly

I'm ilvl 483.5

[balmy condor]

depending on the build it's even way less

[storm monolith]

Why I said worst case

[balmy condor]

like the fabled cleave build that people are playing to crank boss damage

is near equal

its insane

[odd ingot]

On Volcoross we are still doing good

Mostly top DPS

On Fyrakk I'm still top DPS in boss damage

same in Tindral

[storm forum]

yeah volcoross im top 5 even if the kill time is ass

[odd ingot]

Actually I'm not thinking about switching to sub anytime soon.

[storm forum]

no way I do that well if i swap specs

[past forum]

I like all 3 specs and enjoy playing them to some capacity but I am really happy with current ass

[balmy condor]

I'm thinking of swapping into survival

@signal ridge is really cute

[odd ingot]

Are you really leaving Kingsbane for mongose bite ?

[balmy condor]

maybe if I played survival he would hold my hand or something and we could like take a walk down the beach or have a picnic in the park or something

idk

just hypothetically

[odd ingot]

S3 shadowlands was something with Survival

Haste > Wildfire bomb

as a guy who played 6 seasons subtlety, I'm stuck into assa and i'm not going anywhere anytime soon

😂

[weak crescent]

Guys is there a wa that would notify me in some way when i get parried on an ability ?

[odd ingot]

I need something like that too, but we can't do anything about it am I right ?

[storm forum]

I just found a bone in my hot dog, what do i do?

[odd ingot]

If it was me, I wouldn't eat hot dog, and I would eat bread without hot dog

[arctic tusk]

is it worth time wise to set up envenom every singel time before KB as long as you dont lose a kb cast

since the kb cooldown might be up but the envom isnt up

[past forum]

Bone in the hot dog or kingsbane parried, which is worse?

[odd ingot]

Kingsbane parried ...

I feel pressure

If something like that happens

[dark token]

Hot dog for sure

[storm forum]

the hot dog is kinda meh, so I don't mind throwing it out

[odd ingot]

You can get another hot dog

but you can't obtain that kingsbane ...

[storm forum]

????

you literally can just cast another KB

[obsidian mirage]

you guys rolling assa for this week's affix? Kappa

[storm forum]

yeah

im playing sass

every week

[clever sapphire]

im rolling mage

[obsidian mirage]

chain pulls are nice ha.

[clever sapphire]

its whatever

[dark token]

Sub is actually nice af

[clever sapphire]

you have vanish and dance

who cares about chain pulls

complaining about not getting a restealth is so 2021

[balmy condor]

chain pulls are cranker pov

[storm forum]

oh no, my 2% damage, what will i ever do? oh, right, I can just DoT the ghosts and run into the next pull with extra bleeds/scent stacks and crank

[dark token]

This week the extra mobs from spiteful help maintain ur 7 cp shuriken storms the whole pull and into next pull

It's quite good for sub

Or use em to funnel evisc

[clever sapphire]

dots on afflicted, trust

[storm forum]

wait is it not spiteful?

oh its both

reading comprehension doko

[chrome lynx]

guys what a decent amount of mastery to be sitting on ? i have 60% is that too much ?

[storm forum]

less than 100% is kinda slacking

(i have no idea)

[storm forum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/933386399279878154/991343673419763753/caption.gif

just do what the sim bot tells you

[old halo]

yall playing cleve talents for tyranical spiteful?

[storm forum]

also if you have branch, kind of expect the bot to want to tank your mastery cause it gives you a lot

[chrome lynx]

sims telling me mastery and vers over CRit and mastery :/ which doesnt seem right

[balmy condor]

seems right to me

[tacit lintel]

Do you feel we dropped af today? Without Pi i think we are doomed rn

[storm forum]

????

we're still top 10 without PI

we're fine

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/tonight-doom-gif-19873326

[thin portal]

What kind of pi? I like pecan.

[tacit lintel]

<- Doomer

[acoustic roost]

The circle kind

[storm forum]

idk what happened but i feel like im out of doom today

[balmy condor]

should've come here when the 3% nerf was announced, could've gotten a free complimentary mute with some of the other doomers

[storm forum]

i think it might be depressed

[chrome lynx]

do we use dungeon slice for m+ sims ? or 5boss 1min ??

[balmy condor]

dslice

[clever sapphire]

wait did you actually mute people?

i only saw messages deleted

and slow mode

[balmy condor]

yes

[near valley]

It's joever

[clever sapphire]

damn

[balmy condor]

they were short mutes by hand so the bot wouldn't flag them as bad apples

but ye

[chrome lynx]

3% is litterally nothing xD

[spice spire]

Good

[spice spire]

Well it’s 3% technically

[near valley]

You feeling better sicko?

[spice spire]

But mfs act like they stole your houses your life, your dog and ur wife

[spice spire]

No but we schmove

[clever sapphire]

jokes on blizzard, i have been simming 210k since the first nerfs hit, cause i got big upgrades each time they nerfed the spec

so my dps hasnt moved a bit

[near valley]

I sim shit cause I ain't got no branch or ashes

[clever sapphire]

a destro lock just stole heroic ashes from me

warlocks dont use ashes

[balmy condor]

nice work outting yourself

[spice spire]

4:07 missed the third burst window by a baby dick hair. Unlucky

[snow hamlet]

3% is nothing, the scary thing is we don’t know how many times there will be 3%

[balmy condor]

????????

tf does that even mean

[near valley]

Kinda true

We have no clue how many 3% there will be

[tame tangle]

being a fotm player has to be soooooo exhausting

[balmy condor]

can only be 33 of them I guess

[clever sapphire]

preemptive dooming

[near valley]

Repeating ofc

[storm forum]

34 of them and we'll be a healer

[spice spire]

Disc cat arc when

[snow hamlet]

Cool

[tacit lintel]

Ye i think ive misplayed something, timing wasnt great. And i have to check PI. But i think that if we decide to swap PI target i have to reroll Sub, dunno.

[tame tangle]

yep or straight to jail

[balmy condor]

imagine being so dented at this point in the patch that you're already dooming over nerfs that don't exist

that's real illness right there

[crisp pine]

Istg if they nerf rogue again I'm gonna do fucking nothing cause I genuinely don't really care

[tacit lintel]

We are just talking btw

[near valley]

I swear down

[clever sapphire]

no Pi, yap just reroll, its not worth it, we play for numbers not fun

[near valley]

When our hero talents are revealed

[near valley]

I wanna watch Whispyr's pov

Heart monitor and everything

[balmy condor]

im half falling asleep

and I got work in 40 min

kinda dooming myself

[spice spire]

True

You got up early

[storm forum]

get a time machine, or wait until 11.0

[spice spire]

Nice

[signal ridge]

[near valley]

Get through with the power of friendship

[tacit lintel]

I wont chase fotm, i like rogue overall, just trying to give the best output for the raid. 🫡

[near valley]

And by friendship I mean 2 L of oil black coffee

[signal ridge]

no tonly would I hold your hand I would take you to the cutest coffee shops and show you off to all my friends

[balmy condor]

[clever sapphire]

if my raidgroup started wiping because i got nerfed by 3% than it would be pretty sad ngl

like sure i get your point

but my point is, 3% so smol, it wont make me reroll for my group

[agile pawn]

Guys is there anyone uses tidyplates can help me ?

[snow hamlet]

Maybe we got a 1% buff if the tier 2pc bug fixed

[bright turret]

Sin is still better than many past tiers. Real issue is how sub ducked any nerfs despite not getting inflated by PI

[slate crown]

Also if you hit a wipe on the order of 3% nerf for one player within the raid, there were like 45 other things that also were the culprit including complete RNG

[near valley]

Looking for buffs and nerfs like it's a damn Christmas present

[tacit lintel]

Ye ofc, but its not just the 3%. But why do i have to keep sin if sub is gonna sim 10kish more without pi

[tacit lintel]

Ye thats the point

[snow hamlet]

Fuck it I don’t like this present

[balmy condor]

then go play sub if you're fotm chasing

why you here

[slate crown]

You don't have to do anything. Play what you want

[balmy condor]

your favorite spec won't be the top cutting bleeding edge 0.001% best spec every time

pick

are you gonna play spec you like

or top 0.001%

that's a choice you have to make as a player

[bright turret]

I sympathize cause this is the least fun version of sub ever IMO, and I've told my GM straight up I'd rather not play until 11.0 than play sub. Odds are you aren't really in a situation where you have to play sub though

[balmy condor]

only one spec can be the best

[bright turret]

Sin is still better than most specs in the game tho

[slate crown]

Always play like the spec you like is the best. That's your brain now.

[clever sapphire]

nobody ever told you that you HAVE to play sin

nor did they tell you to play sub

[near valley]

Outlaw

[spice spire]

Unless you like all mages

[near valley]

But yeah whispyr speaks true

You're either outlaw or some bozo

And it's damn OK to be a bozo

[snow hamlet]

Sky always blue

[signal ridge]

does anyone know if I shoudl go deathstalker or fatebound for m+?

[trail locust]

lol look who qued up

[near valley]

Fatestalker

[signal ridge]

i dont think thats a hero tree

is that coming in 12.0

[storm forum]

Cev do you play Violin or Viola?

[trail locust]

skinflute

[near valley]

Yeah with the survival rework

[signal ridge]

hopefully it gets the same level of rework as mut

me ready to be stronge

[near valley]

Year of the Spear

[clever perch]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[limber lion]

Professionally the viola

Occasional violin sometimes if I'm messing around

Started with the viola when I was 7 years old

[storm forum]

ty

i heard violist a couple times this weekend and saw it in your bio and wanted to know which

very cool

[tall jay]

When do I use this? It’s 483

[clever perch]

?

what's the question again? xD

[tall jay]

When do I use this trinket. It’s 483

[clever perch]

you use it with ur deathmark + kingsbane

[tall jay]

Along with branch

[brittle cloud]

Macro with kingsbane

[tall jay]

I have a 8/8 Branch as well

[limber lion]

Yeh, it's the reason why I had to step down from mythic raiding. Gotta practice and work all the time, no time for tryhard gaming

[limber lion]

Would not recommend using Ashes + Branch together

Just get a passive trinket instead of Ashes

[clever sapphire]

unless its smolderon and you are playing assa there for some reason

and you feel like you need a second on use

[marble hemlock]

Ashes is still 4 seconds into KB iirc.

[limber lion]

You would probs want to press branch immediately on pull and then Ashes immediately when it's available

[marble hemlock]

Branch is together with DM

[limber lion]

Yes, but you wouldn't be able to do that if you play them both

[marble hemlock]

Oh yeah for sure

Just in genral. Ashes = 4 seconds into KB.

[balmy condor]

3

but it's so close that you could just macro it to kb

and vibe

you're playing it for the ease anyway

so taking a hit of like 200-250 dps

kinda whatever if you get to macro it

[old halo]

Guys! Why is it so hard to parse against you, stop doing so much damage, TY Kaed

should i stop wasting a global on feint? healer problem

[limber lion]

my friend sims 225k on his alt monk

40k more than my main rogue

sadness

Monk rising the ranks

:stonks:

[snow hamlet]

fucking pi

[limber lion]

You will not be able to parse against anyone because WCL didn't do a partition

You're literally competing against people who do like 20k more dps than you by default

actually even more because they've fixed aug hooks as well

and they all have PI and you probably don't

so let's call it a day at 50k dps

if you can get an orange parse, you're a god

[clever sapphire]

screenshotting this to my raidlead

i dont want any complaints about my dmg

[old halo]

i screened shot that to my RL, ty

[limber lion]

I mean we are literally the lowest simming spec in the game atm

together with mm hunter

and our apl is minmaxed to perfection

not much to gain from apl changes

[old halo]

5th overall in dmg but a 14 parse, no pi's or evoker buffs

[gusty mirage]

so when is BM getting nerfed by 11k dps to compensate for them getting PI?

[clever sapphire]

the same day aug gets removed

[limber lion]

Yeah, we got hit by 20k nerfs

People will eventually stop using PI on us and use it on the bm/dk instead

and then we'll suddenly plummet the ranks

[gusty mirage]

nah uhdk is still a meme

don't get it twisted

[clever sapphire]

sudden demise gonna hit us, got it

[gusty mirage]

PI will go to BM hunter

because BM hunter is legitimately broken

[limber lion]

I mean, got us beat in simdps and pi gain

but yeah our burst still funzies

burst specs are tricky to balance right

[gusty mirage]

I mean I'll just not give my opinion on it

yeah man

totally

seems to only be the case for rogue

weird

[limber lion]

giga destroy a few bosses

and then be below average on others

[gusty mirage]

the extra 3% nerf was completely unnecessary

[limber lion]

I wanna hear your opinion >:(

[gusty mirage]

now I can't justify playing assassination

at all

except ig on council but that's a meme fight anyway

[limber lion]

it's just that PI and Aug inflate the rankings so much

[snow hamlet]

fucking pi and fucking aug ,they destroyed everything

[feral mason]

The mage epidemic has already started

[gusty mirage]

My opinion is whoever does the balancing of this game is so out of touch with the reality of how the game is played that it's actually a joke at this point. Nerfing 3 of the top performing specs middle of the tier when the vast majority of HOF guilds are still on tindral/fyrakk

is absolutely fucking stupid

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

so now instead of having options for the last two

I have

sub and.... sub

or bench

good job balance team

10/10 yet again

[feral mason]

im sub irl glad i can be sub ingame too

[limber lion]

Yeah if I was still raiding at a high level, I would be permabenched at this point

[gusty mirage]

meanwhile arcane mage is untouched (lol?), BM hunter got a slap on the wrist, and we're below destro lock

which is the biggest meme ever

destro lock's tier set is absolutely fucking worthless

and they sim higher than we do

ponder that for a second

[feral mason]

Think destro is from larodar abusing

oh sims

[limber lion]

Most of the specs fall between 240-255k dps

[feral mason]

Nvm

[gusty mirage]

we're below shadow priest bro

lmfao

[limber lion]

then there's outlaw at 259k and assa/marksman at 230k

[feral mason]

wait what spec sims the worst rn then

Affli?

[gusty mirage]

no

mm hunter

and guardian druid

ggs

[feral mason]

guardian?

[dawn jolt]

is it true logs rank you against people with pi and augs? my raid has neither and ive been wondering why i cant get above 75% but feel im doing everything well

[clever sapphire]

you are competing with logs from before nerfs and fixed aug hooks

[gusty mirage]

yeppers, so if you're in a suboptimal raid group parsing orange is actually close to impossible

you're directly competing with people with organized raid buffs, etc

[limber lion]

We would still be below 22 other specs even without the 3% nerf

[feral mason]

anyway

[gusty mirage]

and then toss the nerfs on top of everything else

[limber lion]

now it's 23 specs with the nerf included

[feral mason]

i do think the nerf was unnecessary

[limber lion]

very necessary nerf

[feral mason]

But sim dps and raid balance aint 100% overlapping this tier

[gusty mirage]

same ol' blizzard

[feral mason]

With all the abusable burst phases

[limber lion]

Yeh burst and externals are tricky to get right

[gusty mirage]

with the "abusable burst phases" you'd just play sub anyway

[feral mason]

once thats gone though they probably wont change shit

[gusty mirage]

it's better

especially now

[feral mason]

and itll be even worse

[gusty mirage]

and especially because you're not getting PI

even during those burst phases

hunters can do gymnastics while doing damage

you have to be on the boss

[feral mason]

assa on fated voti

aberrus too ig

[gusty mirage]

the fact that BM hunter isn't the bottom dps every tier is a mockery to every other spec in the game

[limber lion]

I do think that Spatter is a tricky one for sure

[gusty mirage]

their rotation is push jump + their 4 buttons

[limber lion]

I think they should have targeted Spatter instead of the entire spec

[feral mason]

oxi give old men their spec man

ret pala and bm hunter retirement home

[gusty mirage]

ret paladin?

you mean the 5th highest simming spec in the game?

[limber lion]

I guess it's time to realm change my hunter to my main realm

and start playing payphone bm

[feral mason]

ay the seniors gotta blast sometimes too

[dawn jolt]

i havent played much since these external buffs but why are logs using them not filtered out from those who dont

[gusty mirage]

and don't even get me started on the difficulty ramp up this raid

going from smolderon to tindral

is fucking ridiculous

[feral mason]

everything before smolderon to smolderon aswell

shits like

2m ledge into 100m ledge

into mount everest of tindral

[limber lion]

Apparently filtering out externals and only comparing external logs to other external logs and non-external logs to other non-external logs is an impossible task

and would require too much computing power

and would slow down the entire site by an enormous amount

[feral mason]

anyway

[limber lion]

so they've refrained from doing it

[feral mason]

outlaw going to be absolutely absurd next season

during fated

voti gear abuse angle

assa going to be puzzling boxes in the corner sadly

[deft vault]

is this for real or satire ?

[snow hamlet]

I just don't understand why there's a rush to keep doing nerfs at this point in time

[deft vault]

seems like something not to hard to do

[limber lion]

It is very much real

[feral mason]

think they did a poll for it during aberrus during the height of the shadow priest bullshit

and people didnt want to hide external logs in a completely different ranking

filterable i guess

but not for parses in general

[limber lion]

that's not true

People did want seperate rankings

but WCL literally said it's impossible

that's why they introduced the cap system

so it's less abusable

but it's all within the same system

[feral mason]

oh

I always assumed they didnt do it because that was the result of the poll

[silk bane]

@gusty mirage ill teach you sub. come come! we got dust here, its a ton of fun! :3

[feral mason]

wild

[nova badge]

Do you guys macro your trink into any skill like DM?

[feral mason]

my branch is macrod on dm yeah

[gusty mirage]

yeah man appreciate the help

if only I had written a guide about sub rogue or something

weird

[keen spruce]

@balmy condor shaman alt?

[limber lion]

#1 winning option was 2 separate rankings. #2 winning option was banning PI altogether

which one did we get?

[silk bane]

:c I just want you to kill the bridman

[limber lion]

The 3rd one which is caps

[feral mason]

3rd most popular option wins

[limber lion]

and a filter

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

instead of separate rankings even though it won 58% vs 32%

lol

[feral mason]

they were putting all their dev time in these new tier list generators

[limber lion]

anyways

back to everbloom prison

[feral mason]

Gotta cater to the average wow goon

It is what it is

[limpid plinth]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[limber lion]

I wish I could play Outlaw, I'm honestly surprised more people aren't playing it

looks pretty fun

just hurts to play

[feral mason]

Wrists gone

[balmy condor]

Yeah huge stuff

Having to argue against them putting “best” on everything

[limber lion]

the one site that we always run into issues with (subcreation)

[balmy condor]

When the term is “most popular”

[limber lion]

and now there's another one

[feral mason]

subcreation can actually be useful if you read stuff

but like

[runic hinge]

Who can read these days

[feral mason]

People just look at the tier list bit

[limber lion]

It's a giga casual trap

[feral mason]

and make decisions

[limber lion]

Max makes a tier list based on vibes

and the next day people are here raging that Assa is in b-tier

I love tier lists

[feral mason]

the only relevant tier list is the RH copypasta tier list

Going to make a tier list for next patch but instead of power level its how much % of your brain you need to turn off to not go insane while playing the spec

dev at 100% S tier

[earnest remnant]

u tryna flirt with my man @gusty mirage ?

[gusty mirage]

birdman prolly dies tonight or tomorrow

3 sub 10% pulls

[feral mason]

how many pulls you on total rn

2 hundred?

[earnest remnant]

[feral mason]

3?

4?

[earnest remnant]

they are at 336

beats this tho xD

[balmy condor]

Me soon

[earnest remnant]

i can smell freedom

4 more raids before NY

[halcyon ingot]

what spec do you guys think is better for m tindral sin or sub?

[earnest remnant]

[dark token]

This was our last raid till January I guess tindral is put on pause till then

Probably nerfed by then again

Shame we didn't kill today

[gusty mirage]

gang activity started on tindral a week after us

and has more pulls than us

explain pls

[earnest remnant]

im hoping for Fyrakk kill before NY

[earnest remnant]

just chain pull p1 wipes

its pretty easy

[snow hamlet]

How about pure boss damage for m tindral between sin and sub ?

[earnest remnant]

if you only focus on boss, sub should win that as well

[halcyon ingot]

what makes sub better?

[rancid spade]

!runes

[snow hamlet]

good news

[rancid spade]

!rune

😦

[dark token]

Chain nerfs to sin

[earnest remnant]

it does more dmg

[halcyon ingot]

works for me

[snow hamlet]

Here is not classical discovery channel

[rancid spade]

is there any code to sim the runes?

[snow hamlet]

go pure st talent or with tornado?

[earnest remnant]

tornado

[kindred crescent]

is it a big deal to craft belt instead of wrist?

[steel flume]

!bug

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Bug tracker: https://github.com/SimCMinMax/WoW-BugTracker/labels/Rogue

[balmy condor]

Nop

[arctic tusk]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[kindred crescent]

thank you

[silk bane]

your man??? we're already moving in together bud

where u at?

[earnest remnant]

@gusty mirage if this is true, then i want a divorce

[silk bane]

[arctic tusk]

@slate crown how do you install the simple version of witherbarks brancxh

[limber lion]

Turn it on in the custom setting of the wa

[spice spire]

Don’t act like you aren’t a ho

[arctic tusk]

got it

ty

[storm monolith]

Whispyr how did you get so smart

[azure basalt]

Hello I'm pretty new to playing assa this season about 3-4~ weeks and putting out some pretty bad numbers in mythic even with kind of lurking around here and going over the wowhead guide where I know there must be some big key factors tying into it. I'm not sure what I'm missing so after regoing over the guide I logged some kills though in normal to focus on rotational /cds stuff and hoping someone can point out some things I'm doing wrong https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NqQ263ZhtdX4FgjK#fight=13&type=casts&source=11&view=timeline

[earnest remnant]

get to work bozo

[spice spire]

Brother I’m sick my ass didn’t work today

Oh wait no

Please

Zay Log Review

[earnest remnant]

[runic hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/rip-bozo-gif-22294771

[twilit star]

Hey guys, when opening on 5+ targets in M+ do I garrote until everyone has garrote then fan of knives rupture after? I’m noticing if I just garrote twice then rupture I run out of subterfuge to get garrote on the rest of the targets and garrote goes on cooldown

[spice spire]

!pooling @azure basalt

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[runic hinge]

With 5 targets you can garrote 1 and tab to another without garrote and you’ll have them all covered

With 2 garrotes

[upper spear]

Does this sim look right? Locks and Rets in my guild are simming like 10-20k higher than me and i have higher ilvl 🙂
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b2RZqBFdUyUUdpJpAq89Na

[twilit star]

Thank you

[spice spire]

Augment rune not used?

[limber lion]

Assa is the lowest simming spec together with MM currently, so yes

[jovial solar]

!FU

!FUU

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[twilit star]

After I DM, shiv, SD,KB I garrote then envenom, but some guides are saying I should garrote and refresh rupture to take advantage of master assassin/subterfuge. What should actually be done?

[cursive frost]

i did not feel the previous nerfs as much as i did these, probably a lot to do with not getting pi anymore too

[tall atlas]

Really?

Honestly man they never let us have any fun

[cursive frost]

product of tuning around externals

[tall atlas]

It’s the first time assa has been good since the end of nathria and they just kill it

[tall atlas]

Bullshit

You remember uh dk in s1

Or demo locks

[cursive frost]

and boomkin in shadowlands

[tall atlas]

Exactly

[cursive frost]

the saving grace is sub is very strong and sin is still far from a bottom spec

[tall atlas]

I’ll be honest sub is good and I prefer sub to Assa so I’m okay with how things are and I know it’s just a game but it really really sucks ass

Yeah but it’s like mid pack now it’s so bad

All the vault choices I could have made instead of what I have all the gear I sold or gave away because the stats. It just sucks

[cursive frost]

its better than middle of the pack, but it was nice blasting

[tall atlas]

I just think it’s a bit far this time. The last ones ye I get it but these ones I don’t think are fair. For people like @whisp and @cev who from what I see love assa it’s just really unfair treatment

So what we have a couple months maybe 3/4 and the new patch comes out why not just let it be crazy till then? It’s just pve it’s not like it’s gonna affect anyone else

Maybe I should sleep

[prime ocean]

Does the Arterial Shock build for m+ and the Hybrid build for m+ play pretty much the same? Or do I need to swap to different priority skills

[onyx swallow]

How much haste/crit/mastery are we aiming for

like % wise

[plucky canopy]

Nothing, just take what top gear tells u to. There is not break point or specific stat value we chase

[onyx swallow]

ah okay

[plucky canopy]

On top of that, sin kinda loves all 4 stats, so ilvl is almost always the best choice

[onyx swallow]

I'm just getting such a weird sim result but yea

[plucky canopy]

What is weird about it?

[onyx swallow]

I'll send in a sec

its telling me a 470 vers/haste ring is better than my 483 mastery/haste ring

by like 700 dps

[plucky canopy]

Sounds weird, but that can be right if you are already very high on mastery

[onyx swallow]

but im running again just to check

yea its like crazy high

68%

[plucky canopy]

So vers is not that bad for sin actually and at some point the DR on stats like mastery are to high so u get more value from vers

[onyx swallow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aqi9WnGS3LQHPxhhMEm93r

yeah okay then

[plucky canopy]

What is your equipped ring? With high mastery?

[past trail]

besides the 5pt enven before deathmark/shiv vanish kingsbane, we are send everything at 4 combo points?

[violet vale]

does anyone know when progging tindral mythic can i blind the boss and blackjack/ai will hit the treants or do i have to target a treant

[onyx swallow]

a little confused on the question

[plucky canopy]

Yes

[onyx swallow]

this is my high mastery ring

[past trail]

even rupture @plucky canopy on opener and refresh?

[plucky canopy]

Yes

[past trail]

❤️ thank you

[plucky canopy]

Ok

I think u have enough mastery atm, so vers and haste give u more dmg

[royal lantern]

yes you can blind the boss and it blinds the treants

[plucky canopy]

Could try a ring with less mastery

[onyx swallow]

👍

thanks

[violet vale]

ty appreciate the quick response

[onyx swallow]

im just simming everything rn

also, this option means it'll try all 4 variants and find the best enchant right?

[plucky canopy]

Correct

[onyx swallow]

cool cool

[jovial solar]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[left coyote]

cursed

[mental sapphire]

When the keyholder for fall accepts you among the stack of 40 other rogues and dhs

[thin portal]

did i read that correctly, Instant poison is used if not spec into dragon blades?

[arctic socket]

No you didn’t read it correctly

Read it again

[thin portal]

i see yeah

I always use deadly

i found it and read it again

[lime crypt]

rule of thumb is

if you are talented into it, you use it

[thin portal]

for aoe spec, how do u guys feel about the non-shadow dance spec. Taking acro/echo/lethality instead.

M+ spec

[plucky canopy]

Down bad

[royal lantern]

thats why i walk into aoe shit

i talented cheat death, and im sure as hell gonna use it

[plucky canopy]

Real down bad

[lime crypt]

true brother

[thin portal]

I come from outlaw so playing without acro gonna be cringe

[lime crypt]

why have acro when you have cheat death

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/738991867915534387.webp?size=48&name=trollartistic&quality=lossless

[thin portal]

[lime crypt]

i came from outlaw too and its surprisingly not that bad

[plucky canopy]

The only thing which sucks of not having acro is the kick range

Everything else is w/e

[royal lantern]

tbf, when you realise that, atleast in aoe, acro doesnt really help much, its kinda w/e

[thin portal]

alright

gonna do some 10's to learn sin

[lime crypt]

ull hate it

on 10s

[runic hinge]

Why press cloak when I get one get out of jail free card and also make the healers work

[royal lantern]

nah, fuck 10

jump into 21 keys

[lime crypt]

shit is gonna die

[thin portal]

my max is 18

[lime crypt]

so extremely fast