please give me an example of where u use kb without sd
#assassination
cursive owl
shrewd crescent
so this?
subtle tundra
in aoe buddy????????
cursive owl
i dont get this
cursive owl
ok try me
shrewd crescent
so when you are unable to re stealth
cursive owl
ah
slim hamlet
I disagree Varas
There is no reason u dont just put up spatter first and then shadow dance
cursive owl
so u wanna tell me when kb and sd have the exact same cd and u are unable to restealth , why would it matter then to use kb without sd together
dear jesus
cursive owl
AoT i bless u for your comment
shrewd crescent
1 missed IC bleed for snapshotting KB has to be better
Eli5
slim hamlet
wtf does that mean
shrewd crescent
explain like im 5
slim hamlet
Well all u are missing from snapshotting KB in that scenario is 1 garrote/rup cast with IC
idk what else to explain?
cursive owl
basicly u pop every sdkb combo in any aoe fight on the highest hp target . case closed
subtle tundra
ok lets say first pull fall. you pull all the mobs at the start except the ones in front of first boss.
you kill everything in 30 seconds except 1 big spin guy cause he was out of range
your tank goes into the next pull with that guy alive
you have 0 dps for the pack in front of boss
shrewd crescent
sorry, what is snapshotting?
cursive owl
Well all u are missing from snapshotting KB in that scenario is 1 garrote/rup ca...
yes !
subtle tundra
what was the correct SD usage?
slim hamlet
Using it on pull and having vanish for 2nd part
slim hamlet
sorry, what is snapshotting?
surely not
cursive owl
yes
shrewd crescent
i literally played rogue for the first time yesterday
subtle tundra
ok maybe that case you have vanish up cause its literally first pull, but this scenario can happen at any point of any dungeon
slim hamlet
rotund oak
sorry, what is snapshotting?
Its taking advantage of the nightstalker buff to apply bleeds that extend for their whole duration
subtle tundra
and it happens very often when its spiteful
slim hamlet
ok maybe that case you have vanish up cause its literally first pull, but this s...
idk I did this in spiteful and maybe 2 pulls a dungeon u dont have dance/vanish for like 10 seconds
shrewd crescent
I see, thanks
shrewd crescent
so the consensus is SD always used with KB
cursive owl
ok lets say first pull fall. you pull all the mobs at the start except the ones ...
there is still no reason , cause every time u use sd , u should automaticly apply kb because if dmg. and if the adds in a m+ die to fast then the key is too low to deal dmg or u just need to not use 1 pack of cds to safe it for boss wdym.
cursive owl
so the consensus is SD always used with KB
yes
subtle tundra
sure you can apply the logic, key too low and yes thats true but i still want to do the best dps
slim hamlet
But anyways your point was that it is worth to sometimes use dance without KB right?
And there I agree
slim hamlet
Probably most of the time
cursive owl
yes
rotund oak
all the time
cursive owl
yes
slim hamlet
Sometimes it can be worth to use it end of KB if u got restealth before and it's a long pack
subtle tundra
nah i completely disagree
cursive owl
thats why i ask if he is trolling
slim hamlet
Or u would want to use dance for iron wire on some pulls like before 2nd boss darlheart
Or first boss everbloom
subtle tundra
in falls around 2nd boss trash packs there have been many cases where holding SD would've been the right play
100%
slim hamlet
Fall could be too yea
subtle tundra
not for the silence
cursive owl
if SD is up, then KB is also up. why not use it then ?
slim hamlet
Dmg doesn't matter there, but every group has 20 deaths there
slim hamlet
if SD is up, then KB is also up. why not use it then ?
Prolly do that 99.99% of cases
I have only personally held it for before 2nd boss darkheart
cursive owl
Prolly do that 99.99% of cases
then im lost when i listen to varas cause im confused as fk now
slim hamlet
But if mobs actually lived for more than 20 sec this season, using it end of KB if u got restealth before could be good
shrewd crescent
is it worth to use vanish for IC when tank chain pulls?
slim hamlet
Yes
cursive owl
ye
shrewd crescent
more than doing it at the end of KB?
slim hamlet
U almost never get the benefit of using it for MA like on boss
And if u do u don't get the benefit of extra imp garrote and such
cursive owl
more than doing it at the end of KB?
does only matter in st, cause u want kb to crit. if tank chainpulls, use vanish for ic in m+
slim hamlet
Depends on key and pulls, kinda easy to see when it's not worth to use for MA when u play more
subtle tundra
I'm completely sure you guys overestimate how much 10% kb dmg and underestimate how much the bleeds matter
slim hamlet
Yes if we go my what u think is happening
If u never get restealth and never have vanish or dance somehow
royal lantern
I'm completely sure you guys overestimate how much 10% kb dmg and underestimate ...
wow players are really good at understanding numbers wrong
slim hamlet
Just going by what happened in my spiteful keys it was never like I didn't have anything for a whole pull
Maybe first 5-10 seconds of a few pulls
cursive owl
the last +16 i done wasnt a problem either , i never occured a point where i use sd for ic reapply
slim hamlet
And most pulls in these dungeons aren't actually big enough to where the spreading time is actually that big that u NEED ic
tender osprey
is anyone able to point me to the section in the plater config where I can setup pandemic outlines for dots? cant seem to find where to look in there
cursive owl
And most pulls in these dungeons aren't actually big enough to where the spreadi...
unless its below 10 ?
slim hamlet
But it is more cringe with scent builds
Without scent if I go into a pack with like 10 sec on dance, I just slam 2-3 bleeds and spatter it up, because I will have enough energy until I get IC
Not saying my play = auto optimal, but seems like the best
But also depends on key level or mob, some keys legit don't have any mobs that live your KB and then it's whatever
slim hamlet
yo
There might be a time where we unironically go wound poison
2nd last boss waycrest manor it apparently works on
That is an insane amount of dmg
royal lantern
that sounds like a bug mate
storm monolith
There might be a time where we unironically go wound poison
i didn't know the waycrests healed?
cursive owl
which boss was it ?
cursive owl
ahh
storm monolith
when she heals him
storm monolith
does that get affected by wound?!
cursive owl
when she shares life
storm monolith
that's crazy
storm monolith
i mean is it a heal? sharing life doesn't necessarily mean healing
it could instead of being added to his health pool, CHANGING his set health value
storm monolith
like to us, mathematically it would be addition, but to the code it's just changing a value set instead of doing a calculation
it'd be the difference between changing the value of a variable and actually doing an addition problem
cursive owl
ye
storm monolith
i could be wrong though, it's just as likely she just heals him for her health
slim hamlet
that sounds like a bug mate
It works with every mortal strike
idk if it's a bug
has been a thing before no?
subtle tundra
Check a windwalker pov from bfa ig
Or a class with passive mortal strike
Idk which do
cursive owl
subtle tundra
He asked if he is a bug
And i think it has been like that in bfa too
But I may be misremembering
cursive owl
so anyone can recomment what key height i should run ?
ember gyro
last night, I did a heroic alt run and took my rogue, but it felt like I really struggled to make good use of my CDs on Fyrakk. I should be sending everything on cooldown, right? For example, my 2nd deathmark window was a midway through the first intermission (orb soak), and I sent it but he flew away before I could finish it.
gentle rover
last night, I did a heroic alt run and took my rogue, but it felt like I really ...
https://lorrgs.io/ i usually just look at this and try my best to copy what they are generally doing for timing. And I think for the most part it’s send it
slim hamlet
how does it generate dps
Because it reduces the amount he is healed for by A LOT multiple times
U dont get dps if u look at details, but its a wild amount of health reduced on boss
pseudo hamlet
What? Is that gear seriously this good? I am just casually playing 
slim hamlet
bro stop capping 
tardy wind
are we sad with the nerfs?
slim hamlet
Yea we went from best spec to best spec
gusty mirage
Yea we went from best spec to best spec
time to delete our rogues
slim hamlet
Damn beat me there
gusty mirage
then climbed on my roof and elbow dropped it
slim hamlet
Was gonna do that later
gusty mirage
I recommend doing it on grass vs concrete
now my elbow bends inward
it's kinda fucked up tbh
slim hamlet
I recommend doing it on grass vs concrete
Bro thinks I am touching grass
gusty mirage
TRUE
slim hamlet
sure bud, that's gonna happen
ember gyro
is there a way in plater to have Rupture blink, or do something, when it's within pandemic window on the targets
ember gyro
nothing's coming up
slim hamlet
uneven bronze
ember gyro
cool, but it's not really a profile right? how do I more or less add it to the profile i'm currently using
or do I install in in WAs
pliant remnant
willow barn
Stop posting WAs Assa dead now we can go back to sub 😭
tardy wind
suptlety
tardy wind
im a stewlety man myself
storm monolith
ya know, i haven't done high keys or raids as assassin
but this is how i imagine KB being parried feels
slim hamlet
No it just means you unlock your chair and lean fully back and be in despair for that pull
slim hamlet
idk how much it is in sims but in pure ST it did 7% of my dmg
slim hamlet
they definitely don't
tardy wind
im rounding up
slim hamlet
They get 12%
tardy wind
that cant be right
slim hamlet
Assa gets 7.27%
strange python
if talented, do we use CT on ST?
currently learning sin because my M+ group is tired of carrying my sub damage
elfin haven
Did the sin rogue balancer fuck blizzards mom?
I don't understand more nerfs
slim hamlet
Bro doesnt understand the best spec in the game is getting a small 3% nerf that will change literally nothing
elfin haven
Best spec in the game? Based on what measure?
elfin haven
You stated that claim
elfin haven
So you make a claim that they are the best spec in the game. Then just try to push that aside
runic hinge
Based on the fact assa has been on the top of wcl for the past month
slim hamlet
Well they have the best dmg profile of any spec for eveyrthing besides smolderon and possibly tindral
runic hinge
(Blizzard doesn’t balance based on wcl) but we don’t have better tools ourselves
slim hamlet
So tell me why sin doesn't need nerfs
weak saffron
hey look at it this way, you could be A WW monk topkek
slim hamlet
(Blizzard doesn’t balance based on wcl) but we don’t have better tools ourselves
To some extend they do considering they use the same combatlogs for data, but u know
slim hamlet
hey look at it this way, you could be A WW monk topkek
WW monk is going to sim higher than us
That's how u know patchwerk sims are fake af
runic hinge
To some extend they do considering they use the same combatlogs for data, but u ...
I would assume they have a better way of filtering and they don’t have Aug hook bugs but idk
slim hamlet
Only spriest and mm hunter is gonna sim lower in a 5 min patchwerk
earnest remnant
well patchwerk sims are just that, patchwerk sims
slim hamlet
Yes
earnest remnant
they will never be a metric of whats good or not
runic hinge
Sin just blasts this raid and it’s fun af
slim hamlet
Nono
Someone fucked a blizz employees mom because we got a 3% nerf that wont do shit
dont u see?
runic hinge
I’ll still top my guilds meters but just by 3% less
runic hinge
Unlucky
surreal citrus
slim hamlet
It will show way worse in logs probably
raven egret
I mean people look at wcl chart and fail to understand anything about it
slim hamlet
since more guilds will just auto look at bloodmallet PI and thats where sin rly falls off
runic hinge
We getting a partition or what
raven egret
Yellow bar big, must nerf
slim hamlet
if u are not getting PI then it's definitely harder to justify over sub now
U should still be getting PI's tho, but doubt heroic and lower mythic guilds will think more about it than just look at bloodmallet
shadow tulip
In my raid the priest's BF ret gets it... 😦
kindred rapids
How do you justify still getting PI
elfin haven
Looked at every mythic boss leaderboard on wow logs
Outlaw and subtley are higher than sin. And sin needs 5 external buffs to compete
Sin rogue has no timed top page key timed on raider io
2 outlaw rogues do
I just don't understand how you said "it's the best spec in the game"
slim hamlet
Because the dmg u deal are more important often for this raid than BM for example
Execute is actually valuable is 1.
BM loses like 17% ST to get a bit of cleave
we lose 2%
is 2.
kindred rapids
Lol okay
stiff edge
what buff is the best from the weapon Cruel Dreamcarver ?
kindred rapids
So you can't
slim hamlet
If u have an aug apparently it is just always better to PI sin
idk why but math nerds said so
slim hamlet
Yea I know it's because we are better buff target
but like I can't explain anything because idk shit about aug
kindred rapids
Especially consider it's a net DPS increase to switch sub and give PI to Hunter or dk
slim hamlet
what buff is the best from the weapon Cruel Dreamcarver ?
prolly movement speed or cheat death, both are insanely minor
raven egret
I just want to see that damn chart every one swears by without external buffs 🙂
stiff edge
k just making sure im not missing one major buff
slim hamlet
Especially consider it's a net DPS increase to switch sub and give PI to Hunter ...
Yea in patchwerk
spice surge
Augs big cd buff is 12-13 seconds long, kb is 14 seconds whereas DK burst is more like 25-30 seconds
elfin haven
I just want to see that damn chart every one swears by without external buffs 🙂
It's filled with subtle and outlaws
raven egret
k just making sure im not missing one major buff
Nah they are almost more flavorful than anything
slim hamlet
It's filled with subtle and outlaws
If u removed aug subtlety would fall a lot
spice surge
Well ye but it doesnt get that much longer
slim hamlet
Outlaw would definitely be high on an externalless wcl chart
They do a lot of dmg, but not important dmg
kindred rapids
EM duration gets extended though
slim hamlet
what is EM
earnest remnant
Well ye but it doesnt get that much longer
yeah its like 1-2sec
spice surge
Theyre at like 30-40% dr already so even the best setups arent getting that much more than ok setups
slim hamlet
oh ebon might
earnest remnant
but yeah the tldr for this with PI and assa
you condense dmg into a 14 sec window
so the raid dmg is higher if you PI assa with aug simp
than you would pi'ing a bm
earnest remnant
was checking my vod for tindral to check some cd timings and saw this dps on our best try on pull 
halcyon crypt
anyone have a weakauras tahta traks how many rupture i have up ?
slate crown
anyone have a weakauras tahta traks how many rupture i have up ?
!wa my profile has a snapshot rupture tracker standalone which tracks scent of blood stacks
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool
slate crown
It doesn't count all ruptures out though, just scent stacks
slate crown
It would be pretty easy to make one though, just do Trigger Aura: Multi-Target with rupture
then make a text somewhere that is %matchCount
that will show the number of ruptures out
desert vault
!FUU
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
acoustic birch
for you sin rogues pushing keys (for whatever reason) this week, what talents are you running
gray hazel
The usual AP one that’s on wowhead
mighty heron
The nerf is not that impactful right ?
slim hamlet
about 3% impactful
abstract rivet
Mmm sub rouge gonna be a bit better then ig? Since they already where somewhat close
distant cliff
Does Deathmark double Kingsbane?
carmine shore
everyone should go back to the last pin from Whispyr
and just read everything there
molten prawn
i saw the pins about the nerfs but i wonder how impactful they are at m+ as i play mostly m+ and not so much raids
sturdy mesa
About 3% impactful
slim hamlet
A 3% aura nerf + 3% auto nerf = 3% nerf
If u really want to dig into it then dmg proc items doesn't count
so it's like 0.1% less
legit who cares
spice spire
A 3% aura nerf + 3% auto nerf = 3% nerf
Maybe for you but I’m different
fallen forge
Maybe for you but I’m different
ur ✨special✨
distant cliff
If i dont plan on mythic raiding, and only doing m+ up to 20 or so, im assuming the 3% nerf is notthing to worry about
fallen forge
Time to swap to ww they nerfed us again sadge
slim hamlet
It is nothing to worry about for the toppest of top really
hearty reef
Time to swap to ww they nerfed us again sadge
Ww needs another 0 at the end of those numbers
hearty reef
They do?
fallen forge
clearly
abstract rivet
I was thinking of gearing an alt choices where between mage ww and feral i know mage got buffed are they ahead of those 3 then i guess?
slim hamlet
slim hamlet
aint no mage doing more than dh and demo
storm monolith
i have obtained thistle tea
tall basalt
aint no mage doing more than dh and demo
in my groups it was dh > demo = frost mage > else
brazen zodiac
I recommend doing it on grass vs concrete
nope. has to be concrete
gotta really send the message
wind falcon
do you guys feel the nerfs boys?
runic hinge
The nerfs are Tuesday????
slim pebble
do you guys feel the nerfs boys?
I felt it in my ability to get into groups already
Anyways where are the other class discords? I have the IQ Of a peanut and I rerolled a tank so I can actually play the game
wind falcon
derp, ya it is coming Tues huh
gaunt sigil
Guess I’m swapping back to fury warrior 
normal mist
I'm still playing cleave build this week and gotta say, im not regreting it (20 EB)
just feels too smooth
gaunt sigil
Not really, the fact that Assa is playable in AOE now has got me hooked on the spec, it’s the only reason I didn’t main it S2
cursive owl
ah
so u go back on fury bec its more easy to play and just fawvors your playstyle ? ok then its alright 
hallow token
Seeing "god comp" talk coming back. It sucks. It is much more difficult to pug into a group if your toon isn't "god comp."
like they were juuuuuussssst starting to get the memo about rogues
gaunt sigil
Idk
With frost mage buffs
I’m pretty sure all the tops keys will just be havoc, Aug, Frost for dps
hallow token
yup
gaunt sigil
And likely still resto Druid cause it does 90k st
cursive owl
frost got buffs O-o ?
gaunt sigil
Yeah
molten prawn
personally i like my sin rogue.. the second melee dps i liked after fury and dont want to drop him tbh
gaunt sigil
Mostly st/cleave buffs
But the tier makes the GS buff kinda insane
Im actually kind of mind blown that they buff GS
carmine shore
They're going to be so insane for burst add fights
blissful forge
spice surge
Fire is getting bigger buffs, especially for keys
So theyll likely be more fire, but probably some frost depending on key
gaunt sigil
Thank god they are partitioning parses after this round of tuning
spice surge
Especially because fire has cauterize
lyric grail
Its alrdy hard getting into 25 groups as rogue got everything 24 and some 25 timed farming declines
carmine shore
run your own key
deft peak
royal lantern
Fire is getting bigger buffs, especially for keys
imo thats really insane
timber pawn
royal lantern
like
that they just flat buff everything on mage
when mage is allready really really really strong in m+ and all top keys use 1
unkempt osprey
Is signet brand for aoe or st? Ive got branch, augury and signat brand. should i swap to augury for m+ and signet for raid?
wind falcon
really getting sick of AE'ing as sin. might have to buckle down and learn outlaw =/
royal lantern
most people are terrible
and most mages can only "play" fire
and "play" means "crutch on fire beeing op af and playing itself"
dark token
Mostly st/cleave buffs
yeah fire/frost will be OP
crisp pine
You should see how little damage I do compared to my score
royal lantern
You should see how little damage I do compared to my score
SAME
carmine shore
god comp S2 inflation is a real thing, especially aug vokers
raven egret
Tanks rarely pull groups in a way that makes me a happy sin rogue 😦
its more of a "Imma pull these 2... then maybe these 3... then these two... very.... very... slowly"
carmine shore
i just sit in stealth til they're done making up their minds, especially when there are mobs to silence from the packs
frosty bolt
Matters more if u play one of the "old" builds
what is a "new" build? sorry for the super late reply lol didnt get to ask this morning
slim hamlet
what is a "new" build? sorry for the super late reply lol didnt get to ask this ...
More and more people are playing the council build in m+ for higher keys
frosty bolt
oh wow no IC? they just splatter cleave on everything?
slim hamlet
IC is in council build
royal lantern
More and more people are playing the council build in m+ for higher keys
what build is the council build
slim hamlet
ST build but spatter > IB and IC > Dashing
slim hamlet
yes
fading ocean
no sudden demise for DTB
frosty bolt
oh weird the wowhead link i used didnt have IC
council means council of dreams right? lmao sorry noob i am
slim hamlet
I mean there are multiple council builds, but the IC one is prob the most popular
storm forum
And then for the m+ build we swap the 5% poison chance for Iron Wire
royal lantern
ST build but spatter > IB and IC > Dashing
isnt that just the thing people called "cleave build" last week
slim hamlet
Yes
royal lantern
thought i missed something
slim hamlet
And then for the m+ build we swap the 5% poison chance for Iron Wire
Oh yea that too
royal tree
so 3 percent across the board on tuesday? how bad is that for us?
slim hamlet
about 3%
storm forum
3% worse for us
placid wave
3% bad
slim hamlet
placid wave
???
storm forum
Maybe 2.69% cause damage trinkets aren't affected
frosty bolt
thanks guys! appreciate the help
royal lantern
Maybe 2.69% cause damage trinkets aren't affected
eh, less trinkets cus we dont really play dmg trinkets
head enchant i gues
and thorns
storm forum
Isn't signet brand damage and sand glass half damage
slim hamlet
head enchant + signet + embellish
storm forum
Anyways, we're still like 69% ahead of everyone else, we'll be fine
slim hamlet
I guess timestrike is depending on our dmg so that is also nerfed right?
runic basin
any chance that they delete the latest nerfs? 
slim hamlet
wat
proven jasper
any chance that they delete the latest nerfs? <:KEKW:940629290368790589>
Negative
storm forum
any chance that they delete the latest nerfs? <:KEKW:940629290368790589>
Maybe if you go to blizzard hq and threaten the devs (don't do that)
royal lantern
head enchant + signet + embellish
you guys have signet????????
fallow canopy
any chance that they delete the latest nerfs? <:KEKW:940629290368790589>
around 3%
slim hamlet
I passed on ashes 
runic basin
just stupid af...buff mage as always idk just stupid
slim hamlet
Yea mages are really op
proven jasper
hero track branch week 1
slim hamlet
We gotta reroll
frosty bolt
my fights dont last long enough for signet to do well. they usually 5min or less (heroic causual guild) lol
proven jasper
royal lantern
I passed on ashes <:pepe_chad:1022918986737926225>
why wopuld you do that 
slim hamlet
Because I would never play it once I got branch anyways
frosty bolt
i passed on ashes cause i have branch
is ashes better in certain scenarios over branch? thought branch was the best
storm forum
Branch is like 1.8% better, but it also requires some extra positioning and brain power that some smol brain rogues (me) can't always do. (Also branch just won't ever drop for me and my guild has gotten like 8 ashes)
storm forum
True
storm forum
Wowee
silver escarp
what the hell your tank makes huge packs? xD
arctic tusk
Is branch worse if you dont get the orb within 4-10
Like 1-1-1
Or is it still better
Vs ashes**
strong sleet
dont you lose alot if you dont have the buff for the last kb tick?
past forum
so delaying the orbs only means you extend buff for after kb? i didnt do the math, i just assumed we delayed to cover kb
lavish wing
well yea, if u can do 1/1/7 u covered the whole DM
if u cant, u delay the trinket activation so u get the last kb tick under the full buff
u lose the dmg on the first few ticks
fervent jasper
So has Blizzard made up its mind that Outlaw is to be the rogue's M+ spec? Currently all 3 rogue specs are at the top of the damage meters in raid and there's a gap between the lowest one and the next top class. I don't see why they would target nerf only assass. It feels like evry time there's a competitive spec for keys that's not outlaw they start nerfing it.....
past forum
ohhh so the thing you just said about doing 1-1-1 would only be if u delayed using trinket,
lavish wing
ohhh so the thing you just said about doing 1-1-1 would only be if u delayed usi...
yea
hallow glade
Do you guys think a 441 Beacon or 470 Signet Brand is better in m+?
subtle tundra
So has Blizzard made up its mind that Outlaw is to be the rogue's M+ spec? Curre...
blizzard doesnt balance aroudn m+ i've noticed
past forum
ohhh u said that just before, krill issue on reading
fervent jasper
blizzard doesnt balance aroudn m+ i've noticed
Then the assass nerf makes no sense. All 3 rogue specs are shitting on everyone else in raid. Why only nerf 1 of them
subtle tundra
i think sub and outlaw might get nerfed too at some point
not soon though
cause holidays and shit
fervent jasper
cause holidays and shit
Lol "fuck the holidays for those assass players."
subtle tundra
i mean
assa is still good
just not better than its alternatives
which yea i dont like either
but its the reality for m+ assa has always had
slate crown
Actually let me rerun that branch sim with more relevent gear instead
fervent jasper
it's the lowest performing rogue spec in the top percentile. Nerfing only this spec is braindead. They should have nerfed all 3 by 3%
fervent jasper
wowmeta
balmy condor
subtle tundra
im about to cry
subtle tundra
i thought we were gonna have a smart conversation
snow kindle
Assassination just good cause hooks avg with none
balmy condor
Cause wowmeta is on our filter list
subtle tundra
and then wowmeta
sturdy mesa
sturdy mesa
🥺
spice spire
Where do these people come from
balmy condor
Incredible stuff
spice spire
I gots to know
cinder geode
its actually admirable to the devs that they could get 3 dps specs within 3% dps of eachother
spice spire
Idk what’s better the ol’ racist cards the other night or wow meta,
Wild
tepid wing
buff rogue.
balmy condor
Seems like a reasonable nerf to me
subtle tundra
what statistics are those
cinder geode
im ngl a class with only dps specs should always be the best dps specs
fervent jasper
what statistics are those
This is from Dratnos' most recent video on the class tunings. Idk where he got it from
raven egret
is this okay
Hey, we're doing good. But just once I'd like to see that stupid chart without external buffs 😛 it would still show we're doing good, just a bit lower, and MAYBE that would be enough to calm the bloodmallet enthusiasts
lavish wing
hahaahaha
fervent jasper
you just linked random shit
its from warcraft logs
subtle tundra
there's 10 million ways to filter those statistics
lavish wing
I dont rly understand the point of those "overall" ratings
spice spire
Real
lavish wing
it has to be at least "per boss" to make any sense
dark token
why did A tier spec get nerferino but not S tier spec bm???
raven egret
I mean without PI I dont think theres any fight Sin absolutely dominates, but that doesnt mean we aint extra good
spice spire
Real
balmy condor
why did A tier spec get nerferino but not S tier spec bm???
Not the archon tier list 
Fuck
cinder geode
what even makes outlaw and sub c tier on that list lol
slate crown
I'm curious, Havoc got nerfed in the latest notes too yeah? What was the aggregete effect of those nerfs?
spice spire
subtle tundra
I'm curious, Havoc got nerfed in the latest notes too yeah? What was the aggrege...
not even close to enough
dark token
Not the archon tier list <:ICANT:1063885246145245227>
they spam so many adds on wcl
i hate it
balmy condor
Is it still considered adds
If it’s the same platform
It’s like Google midrolls on YouTube videos
neat fulcrum
It's wild how much of an over-reaction there has been to these nerfs 
slate crown
Is there much of an overreaction outside of this channel? And even in this channel there're a lot of people, particularly regulars, who seem unphased
I don't look at forums or whatever so idk
royal lantern
its actually admirable to the devs that they could get 3 dps specs within 3% dps...
wow overall dps balance in numbers is actually good most of the time
like, the difference bettwen the best and the worst is not really that big except with maybe a couple outliners sometimes
dark token
im full sub now except fyrak council
gg
still trying to do assa m+ but we do less dmg every patch and outlaw gets better and better
balmy condor
waaa
dark token
eventually will have to swap if more tuning
idm the raid nerfs
but i wish they countered em with dungeon buffs
mage aug havoc gonna be god comp again
feral mason
why did A tier spec get nerferino but not S tier spec bm???
ur looking at the popularity rankings
dark token
ur looking at the popularity rankings
this post was satire if u couldnt tell
feral mason
weird that thats the default on that website
thorn fjord
@slate crown what was the verdict on the sim?
dark token
i just want assa to be equal to outlaw in keys dmg wise
outlaw can survive more thats their niche
its fine
royal lantern
Is there much of an overreaction *outside of this channel*? And even in this cha...
eh, most peoples reaction too the changes is "idk about rogue but assa is strong, so i gues its ok, ww buffs good but rework it pls, wtf are those mage buffs mage is gonna completely destroy m+ now, how does BM avoid any nerfs"
slate crown
<@228712200385200130> what was the verdict on the sim?
Oh I just started it, had to finish some stuff before running it
thorn fjord
Oh I just started it, had to finish some stuff before running it
I’d imagine if you just do 1-1 and anything above 4 the variance in dmg is super negligible
subtle tundra
outlaw can survive more thats their niche
oh yea not only they have better dmg, its 1 shot season and they are tankier
awesome that 1 spec is just tankier than the other 2
actually even sub is tankier than assa
right?
empty pilot
is this okay
can you link where you're getting this data from? is it raider.io?
slate crown
I’d imagine if you just do 1-1 and anything above 4 the variance in dmg is super...
Yeah the sim ignores anything that doesn't start with (1-3)-(1-3) because they were always significantly worse
grave meadow
Isn’t sub just going to crush us in dmg for raid now especially if we are not getting Pi ?
royal lantern
why do you guys act as if you just lost 20%
its 3%
take your current dmg
reduce it by 3%
thats it
thorn fjord
But my normal parses
storm forum
my guildies are parsing pink and purple, this 3% nerf willmean my blue parses will be below them now 😢
thorn fjord
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uz5QDRPvmurjjjgrKKkkv8
Yeah so there’s plenty of wiggle room
thorn fjord
What a dumb cat
royal lantern
its orange
storm forum
12/10 cat
dark token
my personal trigger is dbm using raid leaders
the pulltimers are silent for bigwig users
keep missing start of boss fight while alt tabbed talking on disc
pls use correct addon
dark token
bigwigs has been objectively better since like bfa
royal lantern
dark token
nah
royal lantern
how did THAT even came up now
royal lantern
skill issue, idk man
arctic socket
Krill issue
thorn fjord
Social issue
slate crown
Social issue
real
void mesa
Missing pull timers cuz social issue, thats a rare one
gilded oasis
raven egret
I mean, look the chart is cute and all, but again its not like Sin was dominating every leaderboards on every fight. But eh, we'Ll be fine
and BigWigs > DBM
runic hinge
<:PB_dumb:723903151597682779>
Me irl
gilded oasis
Me irl
Same bruv
feelycraft says if we got 3% nerfed sub should have too cause fuck those guys too
fallow canopy
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool
cinder geode
was sin ahead of sub and law with or without pi ?
raven egret
was sin ahead of sub and law with or without pi ?
When looking at logs and excluding external buffs, Sin isnt that present in the top logs no, its competitive, but not anywhere near dominating the board
Smoldy is Sub, Council is Boomkins and Elemental, rest of the boss of a relatively healty mix of specs representation
Demonology is looking real good on all those tables too
cinder geode
just looking at logs i find it odd that sin barely maintains equal standing with outlaw despite getting 3-4 PIs per fight
but sin gets nerfed rather than outlaw
raven egret
Thing is, if you want a phase to be pushed or shield broken or something; Sin will absolutely own that role
cinder geode
true, best burst in the game and execute dmg are valuable
raven egret
it wont show in the parses, without PI its hard for Sin to top parses
cinder geode
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
midnight atlas
why did A tier spec get nerferino but not S tier spec bm???
people who take tierlists seriously deserve their fomo fate
worthy bear
is this damage distribution normal in m+ for the cleave build?
jade abyss
for posting a log i must !log or !log with the link D: ?
dark token
is this damage distribution normal in m+ for the cleave build?
why no ct
in fort week
crisp pine
Cause the Demon Hunters I play with bullied CT so it doesn't wanna get picked anymore
clever sapphire
why did A tier spec get nerferino but not S tier spec bm???
You so dumb, A tier spec has 9k higher number in there
Of course you nerf that, man you gotta understand these tierlists better
scarlet sable
is this damage distribution normal in m+ for the cleave build?
Looks like mine
river cipher
is this damage distribution normal in m+ for the cleave build?
Dungeon and overall?
dark token
CT is a bait, just press more env
lol
scarlet sable
Honestly being a solid/high A tier spec is bis now we can just chill be a consistently high dps
dark token
river cipher
CT still does more for me than PB even if I dont use it half the dungeon
dark crag
with dtb does it matter which poison goes on first?
river cipher
Yes you want the first dps poison on before you apply the second
dark crag
is it deadly first or amp?
scarlet sable
Wait poison app matters
river cipher
I dont use amp i dunno
river cipher
Wait poison app matters
dark crag
yeah, i just read dtb tooltip
dark crag
dragon something blades
rotund wagon
So which goes first I just go top down
It doesn’t matter
scarlet sable
Word
river cipher
Why would it
scarlet sable
idk this guys talking out his ass
rotund wagon
Your meme answer confused people I guess
dark crag
2nd one has 30% less chance
river cipher
They both have 30% less
scarlet sable
nothing good
dark crag
oh they, indeed
scarlet sable
I’m new to spec god forbid
storm monolith
i've been having energy issues up till now in packs, but not anymore baby
scarlet sable
oh I thought you couldn’t not take it
storm monolith
i'm still leveling
scarlet sable
Sometimes tank chain pull and u can’t stealth
Then they yell at you
So I yell back
Just an fyi
river cipher
I love IC until I realize its been 5 minutes since the last time combat dropped and we are entering yet another pack but I have neither vanish nor shadow meld and SD still has 30+ seconds on CD
dark crag
what if "they" means the additional poisons?
scarlet sable
Typically I’m okay but it can def be an issue
Like in dawn
Go get a cup of coffee come back
river cipher
Its only an issue when tank literally has monkey braij
river cipher
If I gotta complain about stealth now youre doing something wrong and mfs will still fight you
river cipher
Makes me wanna leave the key
storm monolith
i simply will not walk with the group after the first time it happens
river cipher
Only for some reason whenever it happens its my own key. I just always pick dog water tanks somehow
storm monolith
so i can have the time necessary to stealth
nocturne gale
guys, do we always use kingsbane with shadow dance or are there any scenarios we separate them? just thinking about doing a macro for both
river cipher
i simply will not walk with the group after the first time it happens
watches a cast capable of killing half the group go off cause I want my stealth
scarlet sable
Nuke it dot it
storm monolith
*watches a cast capable of killing half the group go off cause I want my stealth...
yep
river cipher
At that point its tank fault. He coulda had garrote silence and not dealt with any casts for 10 seconds
scarlet sable
I only vanish on bosses in keys
storm monolith
idea for a capstone for vanish: increases all party members' evasion to 100% within 30 yards
river cipher
I only vanish on bosses in keys
Peak keys is managing to time your vanish to avoid a mech while still not losing dps
scarlet sable
Yeah still learning
storm monolith
Peak keys is managing to time your vanish to avoid a mech while still not losing...
razan apparently
river cipher
Waycrest pig boss as well
storm monolith
from what i've seen, you can bait razan's chase
storm monolith
so you gcd, pixel perfect move yourself to be ranged to bait, then if you're targeted you vanish>shadowstep to get back to him
river cipher
so you gcd, pixel perfect move yourself to be ranged to bait, then if you're tar...
Too much work for me. Range can eat it
I love seeing them die to it
river cipher
Yea if nelf
scarlet sable
I need an offhand rocking a 447 these days
river cipher
To Fall with you
scarlet sable
still blasting
But we’re farming
Trialing tonight hopefully get a nice dagger
They might RCLC my ass I’ll be like pls I’m good at game
river cipher
Whatever dagger you get from raid won't be as good as the one from Fall
scarlet sable
yeah but it’s a placeholder
river cipher
For offhand
river cipher
Highest ilvl. Ideal would be 489 timestrike from vault
scarlet sable
right
scarlet sable
can craft 486 not bad while waiting
river cipher
I woulsnt craft 486
scarlet sable
Is Igura 2nd boss
weary stump
yeah
scarlet sable
I feel like her loot table didn’t have a dagger when I did normal
river cipher
Better things to craft. Dagger comes from second boss yea and timestrike dagger can be 483 farmed
scarlet sable
Maybe I’m blind
weary stump
I feel like her loot table didn’t have a dagger when I did normal
luck with drops can be pain at times truly
scarlet sable
Yeah but it’s a huge short term gain
river cipher
I've gotten a dagger from Igira every time I've killed her no matter the difficulty. My raid is upset
scarlet sable
oh is that dreamcatver
storm monolith
Whatever dagger you get from raid won't be as good as the one from Fall
Fall?
scarlet sable
the buff is useless right?
storm monolith
i don't remember that dungeon
river cipher
The buff is useless for damage
scarlet sable
The magic dr is prob nice
river cipher
I used leech. Probably would use stamina for raid
scarlet sable
How long does it last
river cipher
Permanent
scarlet sable
ass has like mad leech already
river cipher
As long as its equipped
river cipher
!dagger
scarlet sable
!dreamcarver
prisma monolithBOT
river cipher
Oh
scarlet sable
idk who’s did it Lmdao
whose
Wait cheat death
low key speed
Okay I like these
balmy condor
Cheat death kinda sucks
scarlet sable
how’s it work
balmy condor
It’s a tiny heal when you drop under 20%
subtle kiln
leech bis
river cipher
Never need a healer again
dawn jolt
sorry dumb question but what can proc the healing from toxic boots, i sometimes get it
gray horizon
finally got my first nick after 32 runs 
jade abyss
someone can maybe look over a log from me and can explain my mistakes ? would be nice
empty pilot
are there "common" situations in which assass will value vers > haste/mast? Or is that rather uncommon and I should make sure I'm simming correctly?
river cipher
are there "common" situations in which assass will value vers > haste/mast? Or i...
Yea. In PvP
empty pilot
just strictly asking for pve
balmy condor
are there "common" situations in which assass will value vers > haste/mast? Or i...
It’s all gear dependent
I’m enchanted and gemmed for vers atm
Because I have a lot of the other stats
empty pilot
ok so it's not super uncommon
balmy condor
It’s just a balance
empty pilot
yeah okty
scarlet sable
Not my year in fantasy football let me tell y’all
stable storm
!up
prisma monolithBOT
scarlet sable
!down
storm monolith
wait wait wait
so if you have a full set of crafted gear you can just hop into 16s?
stable storm
thats the upgrade track for items
the 16 there means it drops ilvl 463, gives you a 476 vault reward, and drops wyrms
storm monolith
right so if you have a full set of 463 you should, on paper, be able to just hop into a 16
mighty nexus
You can do 16s with absolute ass gear
storm monolith
i was under the impression that your avg ilvl should match the gear ilvl drop from the key
balmy condor
not really
mighty nexus
It’s a general guideline probably, but there was a lot of people cranking 16s week 1-2 with way worse gear
balmy condor
cranking 20's even
plain moon
i was under the impression that your avg ilvl should match the gear ilvl drop fr...
You’d probably be surprised by yourself on how high you can go. Push ur keys and feel it out
storm monolith
started playing again about 3 or 4 weeks ago and swapped between ret pally and fistweaver before landing on rogue as my secondary
i must say, seeing the sheer number of different dots i can apply fills me with dopamine
so many numbers
violet jackal
i was under the impression that your avg ilvl should match the gear ilvl drop fr...
15 ilvl below the reward is average
scarlet sable
ret is pepega
Fist weaver is good well received but I can’t get into monk
I’m a sneaky ratty rogue
storm monolith
yeah it felt a bit strange to just........... auto for a solid 5 seconds
scarlet sable
I need complexity to a certain extent to enjoy a class
balmy condor
we do that too
scarlet sable
9.0 Aff was amazing
balmy condor
love autoing
scarlet sable
yeah but we have the whole sequence and dots
storm monolith
we do it to pool energy so we can make more of our windows
ret literally runs out of buttons
scarlet sable
Pally toolkit is nice tho
balmy condor
ye true
scarlet sable
It’s too good guy
storm monolith
ret aura is pretty swanky
funnily enough, i didn't stop playing ret because i found it boring
i completed my mog
and thought "welp that's it"
haven't touched it since
for monk i wanna go into heroic SC but i don't think i'll be able to find a group doing that just for mogs
scarlet sable
SoD had fire mogs
hard plaza
Feel i could be playing packs completely wrong, just comparing dmg to other rogues etc. So for packs i generally do this:
- Get garrote on as many as possible from stealth
- Rupture as above
- SND
- i start switching targets and making sure everyone has rupture on and Caustic splatter by mutiliating them.
By doing this am i completely missing the point of our tier and should it be more like
1.-3 the same
4. stay on a single target and envenom at 4+ cp?
subtle tundra
i start switching targets and making sure everyone has rupture on and Caustic splatter by mutiliating them.
midnight atlas
from what you said you missplay caustic spatter
scarlet sable
I thought you caustic one person
midnight atlas
keep spatter on prio target and envenom
subtle tundra
i will cry
midnight atlas
kek
subtle tundra
it has a limit of 1 target
midnight atlas
mighty nexus
keys slow af for anyone else today ? took me like 15m to fill a 23 eb lmao
hard plaza
Yeah i basically thought i was previously doing it wrong by not ensuring caustic was on everyone, as i noticed someone esle was doing way more caustic dmg than me
scarlet sable
I don’t even SnD in aoe
midnight atlas
caustic is like my top damage in keys too
post details or didnt happen.
hard plaza
so i was like oh shit i should be spamming caustic
scarlet sable
I don’t be searching and destroying
scarlet sable
post details or didnt happen.
Truth right under envenom
scarlet sable
Yeah
Whispyr explained it as being blade flurry which makes a lot of sense
Just be cleaving
None wrong with it
But I also played outlaw so idk
scarlet sable
Lmao
Yeah before KB runs full duration 🤣
sudden demise would just pop my dude I’d be like damn
Or the monk constantly touch of destining
midnight atlas
ah poison bomb enjoyer. i see you like to die to swirlies as well
hearty reef
ah poison bomb enjoyer. i see you like to die to swirlies as well
The holes in the puddle are enough
storm monolith
crazy to me we can take 4/5 capstones
hard plaza
right time to do another key and not try to multi dot cuastic 🥟
storm monolith
is it just me or are we kinda bad in packs of 6 or more?
midnight atlas
is it just me or are we kinda bad in packs of 6 or more?
you joking? i do 300k dps just by spreading bleeds
no cds
scarlet sable
yea
storm monolith
so question about IC
does it prioritize targets for the bleed cleave that DO NOT already have bleeds?
scarlet sable
yeah
storm monolith
these hands are first come first serve, i suppose
midnight atlas
so many 2head andies here
scarlet sable
You get it
midnight atlas
just spread from your prio
storm monolith
bro i'm still leveling. i made the comment because i was reading our aoe abilities and they all say that we have falloff past 5 enemies
scarlet sable
that’s honestly what I do
shy heron
it does not discriminate
It's in the name
scarlet sable
For a reason
hearty reef
Garrote and rupture with IC smart cast
storm monolith
I CAN'T READ IT SPREADS RUPTURE TOO
hearty reef
Spamming on the same target applies to other 2 that dont have it
storm monolith
that's pog
scarlet sable
Yeah
I can’t be building and spreading 1 rupture at a time
What am I
The rupture guy
stark kraken
storm monolith
i mean if you're on point you can garrote 4 enemies before your 3 seconds stealth after effect wears off
storm monolith
so i triple garrote trash, garrote prio target, rupture, double muti, s&d, then multi and envenom swap
scarlet sable
no
Stealth
Find the big guy
Garrote garrote rupture
Mitigate fan envenom
Build envenom
Das it
das all
storm monolith
i wasn't telling you how it should be
scarlet sable
Mutilate *
storm monolith
i was telling you what i've been doing
scarlet sable
Yeah but you’re doing so much extra
storm monolith
i need the energy regen
scarlet sable
especially for leveling