assassination

[distant plinth]

Could maybe whisper focus target

[turbid hornet]

SD always goes with KB? like can i macro those without question

[vapid skiff]

You cannot make them cast it on you

And most priest are mega tired of the pi talk and just dont give a single F

[tough dawn]

But first use or 3s into kingsbane end?

[lavish brook]

I guessing mastery + lowest 2nd stat of haste/crit for the toxic boots?

[turbid hornet]

hey @balmy condor your Everything you need to know AOE video is updated? can i jump into M+ after watching it? lol

[distant plinth]

Haha poor priest players… only job is to survive the fight and give us pi

[vapid skiff]

well tbh healers are in high demand so it will be a lot of situations like that

[lunar sorrel]

Gearing up my rogue in like 5-10 key range this week every single priest threw me the PI. I felt godly

[vapid skiff]

healers that are laid back will end up playing with a lot of tryhard dps players because there are so few and the mindset clash just creates mega friction

[vapid skiff]

and they wont do either properly

[distant plinth]

I screamed at our priest that he gives me pi too early😂so now he sends me oooonly when i whisper hahaha

[vapid skiff]

whisper macro and the pi weakaura is the best solutions

but still requires your priest to accept those

[distant plinth]

Payed him 2mill for pi out this tier so no problem

[vapid skiff]

at least in raids my priests go with whisper macros

[distant plinth]

[runic hinge]

Use ashes 3 seconds after you press kingsbane

[slate crown]

3 seconds after using Kingsbane, use Ashes. Your dance window will be Dance+Kingsbane -> GCD -> GCD -> GCD+Ashes->GCD->GCD, Dance ends

[runic hinge]

Using a fireball sound rn. And I haven’t forgotten since

[slate crown]

Nice

[balmy condor]

also just as an aside to this. As I look at dslice more and more this patch I lose more and more confidence in it as a tool for people actually pushing keys. And there's very little I can do about it in the APL, but it's kinda the same reason why people will be like "oh outlaw sims 100k dps higher in dslice it must be better"

assassination has 2 issues that have always plagued it in dslice since inception and have caused it to sim "bad" or "low":

• ramp time
• dots
  and the issue is that you get dslice doing quicker pulls, 18, 20, 25 second pulls, sometimes it'll chain into a 40 second pull. But a lot of the time here the issue actually becomes that while it's technically better to CT before your cds, just as an example, if you do that the sim actually just casts kingsbane into the last 5 seconds of a pull cause it's already over. And that's not fixable, that's just the fight style not lending itself very well to push keys. I don't have a solution for it either. It's still technically the most accurate because it does happen to give a wide range of situations and isn't just "here's 5 targets forever" or "here's a boss for 3 minutes", and it has restealths and all that. But after the rework given how high our burst is and how the ramp time works, dslice as a fight type is sorta straining to account for it.

And that doesn't mean "don't use dslice", cause the alternatives aren't better, but it does mean that sometimes just being like "well it sims higher in dslice" doesn't really mean it's actually better, and dslice can spit out some wonky shit like that build where it takes a bunch of single target talents, and it takes dtb, possibly to speed up the ramp time on kingsbane to stop it from losing a bunch of value. It starts skewing things that are faster to get out, versus what actually endsd up being better.

It's a mess. I'm trying to figure out and navigate towards something I can actually put a stamp on, and start optimizing a bit more. Right now whenever I look at dslice, it's easy to find some optimizations here or there that are a bit of a headscratcher, and more of a result of leaning too hard into the fightstyle, more than actually a better rotation, so I just kinda have been ignoring it a bit. Overfit is the death of statistics, it is better to be approximately right than precisely wrong.

/endrant I need to poop :3

[balmy condor]

yeah should be fine

[tough dawn]

I dont know whats mean GCD ;-;

[gray crest]

a spell

[turbid hornet]

alrite

[gray crest]

or ability

[slate crown]

Global Cooldown. That is, whatever your spell buttons are you need to press

[tough dawn]

Oh..

[turbid hornet]

i never SIM Dslice btw, idk why but i would rather sim Patchweck 5 targets 1min than Dslice

[balmy condor]

That’s dumb

[tough dawn]

@slate crown Can you explain why 3s after use Kingsbane its the best option?

[runic hinge]

That’s when you get the most value out of it

[runic hinge]

:3

[tough dawn]

But i lost Agility from trinket in time

[slate crown]

This is correct. You lose agility over time after using the trinket. However, it is better to buff 11 seconds of kingsbane with a decaying agility, than 3 seconds of kingsbane with higher agility, even if it's the last 3 seconds.

It comes down to a math problem, the dynamics of how much damage comes out of the agility buff based on how fast it decays vs how fast Kingsbane increases

The answer to this is best answered, generally, by simulations, and testing all the various timepoints

Turns out, simulations found that 3 seconds in is the best balance of the Decay vs Ramp of Kingsbane

So, that's why it's 3s

[tough dawn]

Thank you so much mate

[slate crown]

If this were an analytical math problem, you could overlap them as two graphs of kingsbane's ramp vs ashes' benefit decay over time and do fancy integrals and shit but

We're working in sims so, easier to just do that

[balmy condor]

:3 dungeon sims keep me up at night like a sleep paralysis demon

[runic hinge]

I was just incredulous that a build with dtb wouldn’t take amp and would somehow sim higher. I’m not sure I’m gonna continue playing it but I will for a key or two.

[turbid hornet]

so Dslice is still better than trying to simulate a 5 adds pack dps for 1min?

[balmy condor]

infinitely, yes

simming 5 target 1 min is probably one of the worst things you could do

cause it just discredits all of the single target and cleave

all at once

you're eliminating like 80% of the scary shit in m+

[upper spear]

scary 👻

[turbid hornet]

what do u use to check top gear? Patchweck or Dslice?

[quick flint]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[half dawn]

is it possible to take acrobatic strikes

for m+

[runic hinge]

Depends on if you’re simming for raid or for m+

[balmy condor]

basically never use patchwerk outside of some niche thing you want to check, or a raid boss

[turbid hornet]

oh

[upper spear]

you can, but id ask yourself why and when do you need it.

[frozen jasper]

Playing keys in the 20-22 Range atm and even then on fort i feel like the pulls are often too Short to ramp up dmg with kingsbane and all that. And often times i don‘t even get to the point where i‘d Fill CT into the pull so decided to drop CT and just Spam 4-set Envenoms in aoe.

Would i be better off still playing CT? Feeling wise it doesn‘t bring my dmg down. But as you said i don’t know how accuruate i can sim this kind of changes with dslice.

[half dawn]

QOL, I like the extra range. Personal preference

[static glacier]

Ct does do notably more damage than an envenom

Provided mobs don’t immediately die

[misty holly]

You pretty much have to drop deeper stratigem to take acro, right? That also sucks.

[upper spear]

IMO dont go for QOL if it means being lazy. theres like a small handful of times ive wanted it in M+

Whispyr said you could drop Deeper and Alacrity for it

[slate crown]

Why does this suck?

[runic hinge]

5% finisher damage

[upper spear]

if the name doesnt give it away, i want as much haste os humanly possible

Alacrity

[acoustic roost]

The M+ Utility build on wowhead drops Tea and Vigor for it

[upper spear]

true, he may have been referring to ST options

[slate crown]

You could also drop tea. Set aside the #s argument about acro vs not acro. If you lock into Acro and think about how to make it work, you either drop Tea or you drop deeper.

Having played both, I definitely prefer to drop deeper instead of tea

[runic hinge]

Oh I agree. I would drop deeper too.

[slate crown]

Or you drop dance I guess

But uh, i'd rather not on that

[upper spear]

yea tea is a good "oh shit" button if ur scuffing, or to help burst windows.

[misty holly]

You 100% cant drop dance in aoe.

it's essentailly the new IC enabler

[slate crown]

Yeah like I said

I'd rathernot

[gentle belfry]

Do we have a CD usage spreadsheet like sub by any chance?

[slate crown]

Yeah
10101
11111

[misty holly]

What do you mean? Press them all at once because they all amp Kingsbane.

[slate crown]

(No, because our CDs are significantly more aligned than sub, no need for anything more complicated than use on CD)

[neat horizon]

Guys when im done spreading garrote and rupture in a big pack and i wanna funnel the main target, do i mut till 4+ cps before full sending dm kb or do i just insta dm kb so that i get some damage in before the pack dies?

[gentle belfry]

I mean where it's worth holding, like before P1 of Smol for example, or each platform of Tswift - or its just.. not that complicated? lol

[fair ingot]

I instantly send it
there is no time already to get a full KB out before shit dies. Id rather not waste 2 more seconds of it

[vital rampart]

depends on how long the pack is gonna live for tbh

[misty holly]

oh, not that I've found no. I had to experiment with cooldown timings through trial and error.

Maybe whispyr can make a video about that

[neat horizon]

So spread bleeds then insta dm kb kill target ye?

[upper spear]

we dont have CD reduction, so no need.

[neat horizon]

After that i can easily mut and envenom spam

[upper spear]

its clockwork

[vital rampart]

just go to https://lorrgs.io/ if you want to see what the majority of people are doing

obviously fights are different based on your kill times etc, but gives a general idea if you see every rogue hold DM for 1 minute (hint, they don't)

[gentle belfry]

Surprised I didnt know about this - thanks!

God damn thats based

[fair ingot]

in below 20s when nothing lives anyways i just gar gar rupture and send sd kb right after. even sending it this early the mob rarely lives the full kb

[vale mortar]

!stealth

lol

[tame tangle]

it’s hidden

[frigid pilot]

spiteful in keys as sin

is AIDS

[tame tangle]

and the cycle continues

[slate crown]

I don't know of one boss-by-boss but after doing them all I just kind of remember. Gnarl, igira, volc is send on CD. Laro is accel opener thensend on CD, things may get pushed back because of the charges which tend to land exactly on KB's cd ending for me. Council is ??????? send on CD. Nymue is send on CD, but send 2nd KB on add, which will delay our DM but you would resync it. Smold is kinda up in the air, Whispyr has a post somewhere about it but what I saw on Lorrgs is basically just DM with Lust, whenever your group's lust is. Tindral is accel opener and send on CD (which means each platform is DM+KB -> KB -> Fly to next platform, land -> DM+KB on the shield -> KB -> Fly to next platform, land -> DM+KB on shield, then on CD after that). Fyrakk is more flexible based on if you hold a KB for infernal adds + spatter aoe or send on Boss, kind of up to you and your group. Also be careful not to send CDs too close to a transition % / shield break so you don't lose uptime.

Just brain vomit of my experience with CD usage in heroic

[arctic current]

gotta kill shit at the same time and spam the stealth button like no tomorrow lmao

[upper spear]

you dont like unlimited energy and free fan CPs all dung? iaght

[frigid pilot]

kek

[vital rampart]

heroic nymue try to do accelerated opener fwiw so you can just send kingsbane/SD on nymue right before the add phase since add dies instantly

[neat horizon]

Okay will do, thanks

[slate crown]

Does that KB get clipped by her shield?

[vital rampart]

yeah

[slate crown]

I thought it would which is why I didn't

That seems not good

[vital rampart]

but you lose it on add anyways cause it dies so fast

[slate crown]

sure

[vital rampart]

and the boss dies before your last DM/kingsbane expires anyways usually

[gentle belfry]

Much appreciated 🙂

[vital rampart]

So if you have to hold DM for kingsbane since you sent on add you might not even get to use which is a worse waste than clipping it on boss with shield

Obviously depends on kill time but im pretty sure this is the move as your guild/group kills faster and faster

[frigid pilot]

no branch again

-.-

[upper spear]

if you are suffering in keys this week, i promise you you're not playing right.

this is not a bad week for us.

[frigid pilot]

cant get branch or any nickoftimes...

[slate crown]

I'll try it next time, thx

[frigid pilot]

0 natural restealths, god bless vanish

still aids though tanks that pull a fresh pack when spiteful 20% hp

[upper spear]

you can stealth on the last spiteful spawn

[frigid pilot]

normally they leaving 2

"

:/

[slate crown]

Yeah just spam your stealth button before it picks a target near you

[slim hamlet]

there is no way

3 in 1 day and 2 in 1 fight

[dark token]

dammit a dh beat me

cant compete if they are good

[frigid pilot]

kb is a poison right

it does dmg with caustic?

[slim hamlet]

yes

[upper spear]

what am i looking at?

[slate crown]

2 instances of great failure and sadness

[upper spear]

oh....

parry....

[slate crown]

whomp whomp. One for each

[upper spear]

ya ive come to hate Galakrond

[dark token]

am i dumb for considering taking off sudden demise

its like 1.5% dam

[void mesa]

Its also 10% of your bleeds

[dark token]

ye but just that isnt enough to win in a dslice sim

[void mesa]

Compared to what? What would you get instead?

[dark token]

AP/zoldyck

[runic hinge]

I think sudden demise gets worse the higher key you do

[vapid skiff]

if its not aoe heavy dung

drop it imo

[dark token]

doing these 25s and its rough

[vapid skiff]

ive been doing a lot of no CT build

[dark token]

ct is quite good imo

[runic hinge]

You’re big key gamer so you probably don’t need it

[slim hamlet]

Depends on what u take instead

[void mesa]

I'm starting to become a full ST in keys degen

[vapid skiff]

basically the council build but with iron wire on the single target heavy dungs like galakronds fall even on fort

[upper spear]

Sudden Demise hits harder with AP / Zold tree.
maybe consider dropping middle tree

[slim hamlet]

U can't take shit with just 1 point

Then u also gotta take scent off

[void mesa]

And let the others cleave all they want cuz they already one shot packs anyways

[dark token]

is dropping scent dumb

[slim hamlet]

and thats where u begin losing aoe

[dark token]

for zoldyck/ap

[vapid skiff]

no dropping scent isnt dumb

if its not like everbloom lvls of aoe

which most dungeons are not

[vapid skiff]

dropping scent and CT is generally good imo

[dark token]

that was everbloom btw

that screenshot

maybe i try this for a bit

[upper spear]

why not just.... pull bigger...

[vapid skiff]

thats not a solution to make CT better

most dungeons have some mobs higher hp

you dont do low aoe because you have no CT

[dark token]

why are you guys thinking Ct is bad

[vapid skiff]

you still do quite a lot but you gotta remember you have a pruple boi

because its just pad

[dark token]

in dungeons its stronger than demise or scent

or most other points u can take

[vapid skiff]

that the purple monster is gonna kill no matter what

your job is to make the key go as fast as possible

and if someone can do aoe without cost

[dark token]

you can compete with dh btw

[vapid skiff]

you can go heavier on single target

its not about competing in overall dmg

its about doing the key faster

[dark token]

its both

if the tank pulls around assa its giga

[upper spear]

its both

[undone flame]

is thare like a weak aura or add on that wil make it faster to look at the enemy dot and see the time remaning? im useing plater and woude like to keep use it

[upper spear]

more overall = faster key? am i high?

[dark token]

i had a veng dh tank that tailored pulls around me

[vapid skiff]

ye but at least for gala even your overall will be better with basically single target build with spatter

[dark token]

split pulling high health target into it

[gentle belfry]

Is our only significant talent change just taking spatter on cleave fights? Any exceptions?

[dark token]

it makes a huge diff for u but none for dh

[vapid skiff]

total partys overall yes not necesarrily your own

[dark token]

council drop scoundril and take IC

[gentle belfry]

ahhh

[slate crown]

!wa lots of weakauras to show dot times here

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[undone flame]

cool i wil give them a look

thanks

[vapid skiff]

if everyone goes full aoe on like dragon + chunks packs in galakronds fall

the chunks die

and then you single target the dragon

if you focus single target on dragon your overall dps might be lower but pack dies faster

and someone else gets that dmg

you wanna leave that type of aoe for people that has less opportunity cost for it

[upper spear]

i have doubt

i dont think you get this massive ST diff you're sort of eluding to

[vapid skiff]

speccs like havoc and balance for example, cannot just play builds that do way mroe single target and give up some aoe without inting

if you dont wanna take my word for it take zerocools

[gentle belfry]

And then just do a normal ST opener and reapply dots when possible yeah? Take spatter for council too yeah?

[runic hinge]

Zero is kinda cooked

He’s good but idk

[vapid skiff]

ye he is special but you can watch him use it

[upper spear]

unless you have a very speciifc comp with coms

this seems niche take

[vapid skiff]

its about what dungeon it is

im not saying play no CT on everbloom fort

[upper spear]

comp + dung, ya

[vapid skiff]

but this is a very very ST heavy season

so many packs have like 1 or 2 giga hp mobs compared tor est

and the thing is the actual aoe loss of dropping thsoe talents is not that much

if it was a lot then it wouldnt even be a consideration

[slate crown]

What about if I just do weekly 20s pugs can I just do what I'm doing now no thought head empty

[white marten]

is it worth tab targetting and applying caustic spatter?

[upper spear]

bless up queen

[white marten]

after CDs during maintenance?

[vapid skiff]

caustic spatter tooltip says limit 1

[white marten]

ah thanks...I can't read

[vapid skiff]

understandable

[slate crown]

Just means you belong here.

[dark token]

u garrote instead of ambush unless u need to upkeep spatter

and try to send cds when they are stacked

[upper spear]

does it feel like IO is going u pfaster this tier?

[dark token]

yes

keys are easier

this tier and last tier

[upper spear]

seeing some real donkeys with 3k IO lmao

[dark token]

25s are the new 20s

there is definitely io inflation

because blizz made max vault a 20

so they lowered difficulty of 20s

[vapid skiff]

its pretty common that io inflates with new tiers

[waxen oyster]

tbh i just zone into fall pugs

with council build

because pugs are gonna be stupid on bosses

not trash

[vapid skiff]

yes

[dark token]

3.3k was title s1

[vapid skiff]

1000% go the council build on fall

no matter what affix

[dark token]

it was 3.7k s2?

[languid summit]

Does anyone ever track the 2pc set bonus?

[vapid skiff]

that dungeon is almost pure ST

[dark token]

and now prob is similar

[vapid skiff]

just spatter will kill the small adds

[waxen oyster]

like how big of a loss is dropping scoundrel

[slate crown]

I'm sure people track it but there's no reason to.

[waxen oyster]

anyway

[vapid skiff]

if you can multidot shit its not a lot

scoundrels energy regen part gets kinda wasted when you can bleed up a pack

[dark token]

ok

[brittle idol]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[dark token]

im doing it

[waxen oyster]

true

[dark token]

i actually feel this would be good in rise

[vapid skiff]

well

you would rather have amp

[arctic socket]

is 224k sim high?

[dark token]

nah

sim tells me

dont take amp

i trust the robot

[waxen oyster]

dtb with no amp?

interesting

[vapid skiff]

i would go this

and i have

[dark token]

no ct

[vapid skiff]

ive been doing more overall with that than going some aoe shit with CT

in fall specifically

because most of the time CT is just useless

in fall

its just kill big dragon kill big time man kill big dog in packs

then bosses

ct is just pad for adds that your tank and purple fucker kills by accident

[arctic socket]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pKWkn6LGMXVvUBJLRgE8cx Would someone with premium raidbots mind doing a dungeon sim for me so i can see my best amulet choices?

[vapid skiff]

and getting amp is massive on st

and your kingsbane burst on packs too

[upper spear]

in Fall my groups pull the entire 1st room,, then double dragon each pull after 2nd boss, then 2 packs at a time before Gala

that is.... a lot of targets

[vapid skiff]

yes you will do worse in the first pull

but thats one pull

[dark token]

amp doesnt amp kingsbane

[upper spear]

i named like 5 pulls

[dark token]

u can take instant poison

same effect

its only for enevenom dmg

look at my enenom in a key

[vapid skiff]

oh ye mb he had dtb anyway

[sly jetty]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Mast = Crit = Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs like Witherbark's Branch and Wafting Devotion can often de-value the stat in question. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

[vapid skiff]

ive not seen dtb without amp before i clowned

but ye amp for CT might be the way if you do want it

[dark token]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wERGi4tBSwSvu3g3KLwCBi link to my sim

ct is big

[vapid skiff]

simwise ofc

thats not relevant to waht im saying tho CT is not helping you kill the st stuff

[frank trout]

this might be a dumb question but what is ampt reffering to?

[vapid skiff]

even the boost it gets from hitting multiple targets is meh for pure st

amplifying poison

[crude parcel]

wait wait. Am i really supposed to use instant poison in dungeons?

[vapid skiff]

if you have DTB without amp yes

[dark token]

im experimenting

[vapid skiff]

as always

[dark token]

this might be a good rise build

[vapid skiff]

AMP>deadly>instant

[waxen oyster]

its other only other lethal

[frank trout]

oooooooh obv

[crude parcel]

okay so as long as i talent amp i take it

[vapid skiff]

if you take DTB and dont have AMP your only other lethal option is instant

[waxen oyster]

unless you actually took dtb to run wound

[vapid skiff]

its not somthing you would normally do

[slate crown]

The discussion happening now are people discussing their experiences and experiments with different builds. Our rework gave us the flexibility to have many viable options. If you talent Amp, use Amp.

[vapid skiff]

except a niche for a specific mix of ST and AOE might make it the play

where you wanna cook up some no scent demise but still ct thing

[crude parcel]

Yea i've been experimenting with builds as well. thats good to know ty, i almost thought i had been trolling

[vapid skiff]

its so many options hard to tell whats the best even with lots of testing because so much shit is close and depends on pulls, comp even for same dungeon

[waxen oyster]

sin has more build variance

[vapid skiff]

the build variance is insane tbh

[waxen oyster]

meanwhile outlaw’s aoe build is “drop the least impactful st talents to grab the ones that buff bladeflurry”

the end

[inland nexus]

hey guys is there a section for macros for sin

looking for one to macro my kb with dance

[waxen oyster]

you can just do that

[inland nexus]

or anything to make a life litle easier while learning

[slate crown]

Have there been other examples of a spec having such diverse build options for dps that are like, all viable? This seems like it should be how any game works with talent trees but in the past I feel it's never been this diverse and has always been strictly "Here's the best build for aoe, he's ST, here's maybe a third hybrid option" that's it.

[inland nexus]

og

og

[waxen oyster]

#showtooltip

[sick aspen]

is there a good resource that explains how to burst in m+ aoe?

[waxen oyster]

/cast sd /cast kb

[manic quartz]

is there rule against posting PI memes 😄

i did a thing

[limpid quest]

Hi what piece of gear should we make with spark of dreams?

[vapid skiff]

ye the current ass tree is what I was hoping for when we saw the DF talent system tbh its super nice

[waxen oyster]

covered in the wowhead guide

[limpid quest]

tx

[waxen oyster]

apply bleeds kb spatter off your main target

[slate crown]

!guide Check out gear page

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[limpid quest]

ty

[crude parcel]

I need more than 10 talent pages man i cant keep changing the same talent page and forget what i had the last run 😂

[slate crown]

Yeah honestly

[vapid skiff]

true talent page cap ACROSS ALL SPECS

is so dumb

[waxen oyster]

generally no

[slate crown]

the default only allowing 10 has made me so mad

I know there's addons

I know

[crude parcel]

THIS. like make it spec specific

[vapid skiff]

specially when there are classes that has 2 specs and calsses that have 4

how can demonhunters have 10 loadouts

and druids also have 10 loadouts????

[manic quartz]

pls dont ban me

[gray raven]

Using sandglass in raid but not m+?

[waxen oyster]

well at least they dont force you to relearn your entire tree to move one point

but system still needs work

[slate crown]

NGL I don't really feel PI unless I'm staring at my dmg. On my Fury warrior. however, I actually feel it because it hastens GCD

[waxen oyster]

yeah i mean it just makes your dots do more

doesnt influence gameplay

[slate crown]

Like that meme is how I feel on my fury

[manic quartz]

yeah but you know you have it and you pump 😄

[slate crown]

not on my rogue

[vapid skiff]

look at details and feel

[waxen oyster]

kb gets parried

die inside

[manic quartz]

nobody took me in to m+ group so i used my time productively 😄

[vapid skiff]

i dindt realize it could happen until yesterday actually

[waxen oyster]

me and the other rogue

had it happen on opener

[vapid skiff]

ive had it happen before but thought some bullshit cleanse or something happened then

[waxen oyster]

one attempt apart from each other

[slate crown]

!guide Sandglass is a pretty good all-around trinket. Gear page has a trinket section with some commentary. It's not bad in raid. Sims obviously to get more precise answers

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[obsidian galleon]

Is there some perfect sweet spot on when we should pop deathmark/dance + kingsbane? or just use on cd?

[crude parcel]

Guys, here is a crazy idea. No Crimson tempest in M+. Thoughts?

[vapid skiff]

not a crazy idea but that specific build variation looks sussy

generally this is what i would recommend for more ST no CT build

[crude parcel]

I legit went into a 21 with ST talents (caustic) and did 230k overall, i was 464

[vapid skiff]

ye its good

[crude parcel]

oo nice. time to delete all my outlaw pages so i can try these two builds

[vapid skiff]

[strange python]

just make sure to swap Dashing to IC next time

[crude parcel]

Yeah it was cursed

[strange python]

bet you were slappin on bosses

[pine dew]

When do i use Witherbark, Can i makro it with Deathmark?

[crude parcel]

oh ye it was fun

[crude parcel]

You loot Ashes instead

[vapid skiff]

yes

delay 3rd orb pickup until kingsbane is past 10 sec left

if you can without dying

but timing is good with pop on deathmark

[crude parcel]

the orbs are so hard to see for me

[torn atlas]

does amp poison interact with out4 set in any way?

[vapid skiff]

ye the orbs are cursed

but they always spawn same place from your caracters facing

so learn the pattern and remember it

[strange python]

wait

[vapid skiff]

then you can run there without seeing them with enough practice and mental gymnastics

[strange python]

@balmy condor @midnight mist @sudden brook i think the engi buff you get from dagger is bugged

its triggering way more than once in 3min

[crude parcel]

Can you send code for this i cba to make it please

[vapid skiff]

BMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEJJhIBAAAAAAIlkIlkAAAAAAAtWSCSgkkSaREREJJJRSrViEA

[crude parcel]

ty ty

[vapid skiff]

[sly jetty]

hey guys, do we have any soft caps for stats? i have like 4k mastery and nearly 6k crit

and sims tell me to keep going for crit

[crude parcel]

Now we test

[shy pecan]

Need to sim it. Don’t try eyeballing it.

[runic hinge]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Mast = Crit = Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs like Witherbark's Branch and Wafting Devotion can often de-value the stat in question. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

[mighty elm]

just has no cooldown

[sly jetty]

this would mean to balance the 3 stats

[obsidian galleon]

Is there some perfect sweet spot on when we should pop deathmark/dance + kingsbane? or just use on cd?

[waxen oyster]

idk if it has no cd

or if something causes it to trigger multiple times

[crude parcel]

so from everything i simmed, it seems for some reason, mastery is way better for me. also Mastery scaling vs main stat is a bit weird or i just dont understand it. KB definitely does more damage with my 470 branch vs my 483 ashes. and i'm sitting at 5.4k mastery baseline

[mighty elm]

nah it has no CD, tested it a week ago or so

can see if I still have the clip

[runic hinge]

It means to sim yourself

[waxen oyster]

i had it tick like 4-5x some igira attempts

[crude parcel]

Yeah i always just sim as well

[shy pecan]

Again, it’s a sim thing. There’s too many factors with your gear to figure that out without a computer.

[vapid skiff]

you dont have any cringe timings in the spec to delay for so thats completely fight dependent

obviously you send on cd if you can

[sly jetty]

got it, thanks

[obsidian galleon]

Hmm sounds wierd

[vapid skiff]

wdym

[pine dew]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[vapid skiff]

if something will fly away in 4 seconds then dont pop deathmark because it will be wasted

if something will take double dmg in 10 seconds dont pop it yet

if its a target dummy

send on cd

but i guess also stuff like your potion

[sudden brook]

Do u have a quick sim comparison of how many hits it's getting?

Unsure how to set it in simc to begin with honestly

[vapid skiff]

you can delay for the 5 min to line up with potion if you wouldn't get to use your 6m deathmark anyway

[gentle belfry]

After bis wep/trinks, would the safest thing to upg be myth vault tier pieces?

[waxen oyster]

myth track tier yes

esp if it has tert

[vapid skiff]

basically look at this site https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-assassination/nymue-weaver-of-the-cycle see what people are doing and toggle for whatever factors you wanna know if it depends on or not

[crude parcel]

boys we hit the jackpot today. 20 runs, then i got 2 daggers back to back

[vapid skiff]

using nymue as the example there kingsbane would be up at 01:10 ish for the rogues there but boss is gonna become immune in a few secs so they hold for the add and use it 10 sec ish later

and then you hold dethmark to line up with your kingsbane

[vapid skiff]

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

you are free from the gulagkronds fall damn

[waxen oyster]

me whenever i call every other dagger

[crude parcel]

Not yet. need sandglass

[waxen oyster]

”489 nicholas placeholder”

[obsidian galleon]

ive been useing Hekili addon, idk how that is for rogues

[vapid skiff]

hekili last time i had it on was kinda oof for ass and outlaw at leaast

but hekili wont factor in fight timings anyway

[dusty rivet]

Just came back to the game since last season, I see that the Toxic thorn footwraps are better than my old Slimy expulsion boots now. Why tho?

[vapid skiff]

so hekili would tell you to send a kingsbane into nymue when she goes immune

[hazy violet]

OOH BABY

[waxen oyster]

you lose haste

[crude parcel]

Nerfed by 30% or someshit

thats why ^^

[vapid skiff]

you can use hekili to learn a rotation decently but to use shit optimally you need to use it based on the encounter

which hekili and similar cannot do for you

[obsidian galleon]

But aint it recomended to turn off toggle on Deathmark, dance and Kingsbane

[dusty rivet]

ah i still got my max ones from last season and i just did enough 16s to get an aspect crest

[strange python]

no but i think it's legit everytime you drop below 20%

[buoyant cape]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[strange python]

actually bad examples

lemme find another log

[waxen oyster]

best is prob drop under 20

and see if you have a debuff

[vapid skiff]

if it tells you to do proper deathmark and kingsbane windows anyway then you can i guess

[waxen oyster]

preventing it from happening again

[vapid skiff]

the real recommendation is to turn it off for real fights

and only use it for practice

[mighty elm]

the heal has 0 cooldown 😂

[waxen oyster]

hmm wasnt paying attention to that then

[vapid skiff]

because you could look at better things instead

[obsidian galleon]

iam practicing, im full new, but its sadge when they want me to pop on a dead pack in m+ xd

[vapid skiff]

use it to build your memory

[waxen oyster]

that’d make it best buff if not fixed

probs

[vapid skiff]

but when it comes to the most important shit which is popping cds at proper times

it cannot help you with that

[obsidian galleon]

true

[vapid skiff]

because its encounter dependent

[strange python]

i mean its pretty apparent here

[vapid skiff]

thats where you gotta cook with your own brain

[strange python]

triggered 18 times in 5 min

[sudden brook]

What is the specific word age on the dagger

That proc specifically

[obsidian galleon]

Im preparing alot alts, feel like the nerf hammer will come on wednesday on class tuning, so just waiting for the meta to settle before playing m+

i refuse to play Outlaw

[waxen oyster]

oof

[vapid skiff]

understandable

[waxen oyster]

in b4 it gets nerfed because pvp

free heal that requires 0 player input

[sudden brook]

Oh I see

We're u testing on a tanking dummy?

[vapid skiff]

3min cd popping 18 times on 5 mins?

[waxen oyster]

i think its a copypaste of the mechagnome racial

[strange python]

no ashvane

slowly ticking dot

that keeps me going back to below 20%

[sudden brook]

Can u try on a tanking dummy just to see if it's consistently proccing as soon as you drop?

[vapid skiff]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/224160093296394242/1133070395583504414/YEP.gif

intended as working

[strange python]

ok

[sudden brook]

Wow

[strange python]

we all need to shnut the fuck up

abnout this

delete all these

dude

stop

delete

[vapid skiff]

ye would be funny if it remained unfixed until aa pvp tournament tbh

[dark token]

is this rare

[vapid skiff]

ye pretty rare

[dark token]

instant poison barely worse than amp tbh

it pops off

[strange python]

is this bait

it has to be bait

[dark token]

?

[slate crown]

No, there's been a bunch of discussion about it if you scroll up

[vapid skiff]

isnt amp poisons dmg loaded into envenom?

[slate crown]

(a lot of scrolling >.<)

[hazy violet]

which mount was it, don't leave us in suspense!

[slate crown]

Can you get the Amani War Bear (red) from it?

[vapid skiff]

like the amp poison dmg itself is basically instnat poison the rest of the dmg shows as envenom right?

[dark token]

i think its rolled into the amp poison dmg

on details

idk about logs

[strange python]

dude

[strange python]

they have the exact same proc damage and amp does extra

[dark token]

this was my dmg in murizond rise today

top one was the instant poison no scent of blood build

[slate crown]

Don't quote me, quote the people talking about it, I've just been an observer 😛

[dark token]

[strange python]

like unless the tooltip is bugged out of its mind

[vapid skiff]

yes it will show up as envenom hitting harder

[dark token]

yes notice it does identical to instant poison

[slate crown]

No it isn't, that's not the point

[strange python]

can yall just read the tooltip at least

like

[slate crown]

Humble

[strange python]

theyre the same proc wise

[slate crown]

Amplifying costs more than instant

because it costs talent points

[strange python]

ok

[slate crown]

That's the point

[dark token]

and i dont think its actually that good in keys

ye

[strange python]

so do you just take this

[dark token]

ur envenom is a vehicle to deliver poison procs and tier set procs and poison bomb procs

[slate crown]

Now I'll defer to those who were actually a part of the testing

[vapid skiff]

ye the point is that you can ditch amp poison for CT or wahtever

maybe worth in some situations

[dark token]

i was running this

seemed really good in rise

any low target count dung

or maybe tyrannical weaks

[strange python]

someone is gonna run out really angrily asking you why not take scent of blood

and im not gonna be a part of that convo

but yea sin builds are wildin rn

[dark token]

it simmed worse and in rise you cant really scent of blood much

except first pack

[vapid skiff]

scent of blood is not that good in rise and fall tbh

[dark token]

like i wouldnt run this in everbloom

[vapid skiff]

yes ofc not

[dark token]

it beat my other 2 rise runs by 20k

i think i also play a little better tho

[vapid skiff]

but ye going for no scent and demise on tyran and ST heavy dungs even on fort really seems like the way

[gentle belfry]

What would you run in Fall? same as Rise?

[vapid skiff]

gonna try ditching amp poison for CT aswell soon i guess

pretty much same profile in those dungs so ye

[dark token]

fall has more aoe i think

[clever sapphire]

you guys cookin anyways, can you go and test the bonespike build but with sepsis on smolderon, and see if sepsis dmg would be big or not

[dark token]

aint no way im playing bonespike sepsis

[vapid skiff]

only really 1 pull in the start has aoe in fall

[clever sapphire]

you can only play stepsis

[dark token]

unless it sims more than 5% ahead

[clever sapphire]

and i only said on smolderon

cause 1 sepsis at first intermission

1 on second

[dark token]

fall has entire 1st and 2nd rooms?

[clever sapphire]

it kinda lines up

so if it did good enough dmg

[vapid skiff]

2nd room is not very aoe heavy

[clever sapphire]

who knows, it could maybe even work

[vapid skiff]

its some giga mobs some smol mobs

[dark token]

its like 6 pack pulls

chaining

not everbloom aoe but more than rise imo

[vapid skiff]

all that matters is killing the dog and timegigachad thing

the others will just get autocleaved

not as fast as chunks but still

but ye its some aoe but not enough to go scent

at least i dont think so

[languid summit]

General question,j when using kingsbane.. is there any macro's that can be used to help with the ramp? or is it better to just hit them all and work on timing

[clever sapphire]

there is a weakaura that glows when you have to shiv/tea/vanish

thats the most i can offer

[vapid skiff]

unless you play with like 2 augs or something

[strange python]

make a bar like this

[languid summit]

ya i have tht.. its pretty great the one from LE

[vapid skiff]

ye no better thing than that currently

[clever sapphire]

https://wago.io/PFTo3o6Ug

i use this

cause i like how he put it together

[languid summit]

I use that too, just to track my %uptime on ea ch buff

[clever sapphire]

but im pretty sure both are the same

[languid summit]

the other one is better at when to pop things i think

[clever sapphire]

dunno, this glows when i have to shiv/tea/vanish

but i also have it almost as a muscle memory at this point

[languid summit]

what is the best kingsbanes you get? i cant seem to get higher than ~1.2m

[strange python]

you need PI

[clever sapphire]

with or without deathmark

[vapid skiff]

Pi, dragonsauce pots full raidbuffs and shit it goes bonkers

[clever sapphire]

during dm its like 2M+

[languid summit]

witth

[clever sapphire]

i never get the first 2

[languid summit]

dragonsauce pots? u mean ultimate power?

[clever sapphire]

or the priest just sends me pi randomly without cooldowns

[vapid skiff]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-gif-26460616

guild inting?

[languid summit]

i get that sometimes..

[clever sapphire]

ye dunno, our priests are weird

[vapid skiff]

or do you have better ass rogues or no priests?

[clever sapphire]

we got 4 warlocks

and a ret pala

[vapid skiff]

bro

[clever sapphire]

and those get pi

xD

[vapid skiff]

icant

[clever sapphire]

ye dont ask, i gave up kinda

[vapid skiff]

not even hunters getting it instead

[primal terrace]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[vapid skiff]

that i could understand

because a hunter performing well getting it over an underperfoming ass rogue for example can make sense

[clever sapphire]

im pretty sure our priests are too boomer to understand that assa is juicy with correct pi

[vapid skiff]

but warlock lmao

too boomer to type bloodmallet.com

[strange python]

i just did one and the buffs are like that

[clever sapphire]

they have it engrained that warlock is the pi target

[winter gale]

I can macro Branch to DM?

[languid summit]

Was that a ST dummy?

[clever sapphire]

ye whatever, they would just give it to me on cooldown anyways, instead of giving when i deathmark

so instead of getting shit pi-s

[clever sapphire]

i will just take none at all

[strange python]

make a wa that dm them when you successfully cast dm

most good priest has the pime wa

so you just need to whisper them pime

[vapid skiff]

if they are not anti weakaura you could give them the pi prio weakaura or setup whisper macro for them thats the best way to deal with it is

but if they are too boomer for that its doomed i guess

[clever sapphire]

ye ik, we had a priest for one day that gave me pi

never seen him since

[languid summit]

how far into kingsbane are you popping the branch?

[clever sapphire]

i beat everyone by 30k on volcoross tho

on that day

[vapid skiff]

[clever sapphire]

pretty sure its just hate crime against assa rogues from them

[strange python]

i macro it to dm

pop dm walk forward then wiggle left and right til i get 2 stacks

then drag a lil bit

works like 90% of the time

[languid summit]

oh.. good idea.. i like that

[vapid skiff]

ye macro dm pickup 2, wait pickup 3rd 6-8s later

[south wing]

got pi’d by spriest doing an everbloom last night. most fun I’ve had this patch

[languid summit]

popping it right before casting kingsbane right?

[strange python]

usually pick it up before your shiv timer then you should be fine

dm shiv dance kb

always

sin st is literally a bot spec

[languid summit]

oo.. i usually pop kb first.. ouch, means im loosing so much uptime

[vapid skiff]

ye its a flowchart

but didnt you read the wowhead guide first?

thats the best way to start out learning a spec

[exotic plume]

-15% to kingsbane

[dusty trellis]

nerfs hurts

[keen spruce]

this isn't as bad as expected

[arctic hare]

Yep, they're here

[keen spruce]

[timid talon]

wait we survived

[vapid skiff]

thats resonable tbh

[arctic hare]

WE DID!

Kingsbane was absolutely crazy though lol

[dark token]

OOF

[vapid skiff]

kingsbane was the problem tbh

[dark token]

RIGHT IN THE KINGSBANE

[heady drum]

its over gg noobs

[vapid skiff]

good nerf target

[dark token]

i would rather % aura nerf

[dusty trellis]

i liked kingsbane how hard it hits my wife

[vapid skiff]

but yes externals is the real issue tbh

[dark token]

now unholy dks will steal our PI

fuck

[vapid skiff]

all my homies hate externals

[gray crest]

slow mode time

[thorny onyx]

Thoughts about the tuning?

[lusty steeple]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[rustic minnow]

BRUH

[thorny onyx]

Will this change anything for us?

[rustic minnow]

15%

just means we do less damage

[harsh anchor]

Everybody panic

[nova flax]

aight pack it up

back to sub

[harsh anchor]

Immediately

[somber fractal]

might not get PI which hurts us even more

[clever sapphire]

unholy buff? ✅
unholy already big dmg without legendary? ✅
unholy broken after getting legendary and not getting nerfed? ✅

[hearty reef]

this nerf is really the bane for us kings

[dark token]

where are the sub dungeon buffs tho

its actually pitiful in keys

[green harbor]

i hate it when they do things like the blindside nerf, gameplay nerfs are so weird

[timber meadow]

i dont see the nerfs in pins so guess ill randomly doom

[sudden brook]

It's over

It's so fucking over

[dark token]

its over

[vital haven]

its joever

[dark token]

right in the kingsbane

[earnest timber]

tbh the nerfs arent even that bad.

[raven egret]

Soo.... thoughts

[clever sapphire]

everyone reroll to outlaw

[haughty flicker]

its over

[clever sapphire]

its time

[dark token]

nah

[smoky leaf]

I cant tell if these comments are ironic or not lol

[dark token]

its literally full send sub time

they did the same dmg

lol

[gentle belfry]

Where do we sit vs sub now?

[ebon tundra]

!DAGGER

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1180129404031082546/dagger.webp

[sudden brook]

Havoc got fucking creamed

[buoyant herald]

By my maths, a 15% nerf to kingsbane = 20% nerf and now were wind walker tier

[sudden brook]

Sub is bad lol

[dark token]

just in dungeons

[sudden brook]

Sin is still the best

[scenic nacelle]

[pallid kestrel]

Outlaw KEK

[slate crown]

Yes. Catch balls 1/1/7 after.

[dusty trellis]

assa ded

[deft vault]

how is sub bad lol

[austere lintel]

its jover

[dark token]

im wondering if this is enough to make unholy/bm better pi targets

[scenic nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/davy-jones-join-my-crew-potc-gif-22538795

[dusty trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-gif-19237791

[smoky leaf]

Actually?

[sudden brook]

It just is

[clever sapphire]

so im fucked, got it

[rustic minnow]

nah we will always be better pi targets

[gray crest]

sub aint bad

[light knoll]

back to sublety

[tranquil cobalt]

Well that's screwed up

[gray crest]

as much as i hate dust its not bad

[sudden brook]

Sub is garbage lol

[final star]

sub is not great

[alpine latch]

😦

[final star]

it's good on smolderon

[deft vault]

yall crazy lol sub is not bad

[final star]

and tindral if u need root damage

[heady drum]

sub is fucking trash LOL!

[sudden brook]

Sub is good

[arctic hare]

I think I'm just going to wait till Whispyr says something about the nerfs.

[gray crest]

sub is for sure better than outlaw this tier

[hollow escarp]

[alpine latch]

I like Sub.. I dislike hitting 2 keys a second with Outlaw 😕

[tranquil cobalt]

I mean this is a pretty hefty nerf. Now what the hell do we do

[final star]

dust is an abomination

[forest notch]

Im not smart enough to know? This big or small?

[final star]

outlaw is outlaw

[glacial venture]

Hi im here to ree at whispyr

[dark token]

where are the sub aoe buffs

[final star]

and assa is still good

[dark token]

tbh

[final star]

[deft vault]

sub is good on volco nymue tindral smold very easily

[true rapids]

hes going to say its a 15% nerf to kingsbane damage I bet

[rustic minnow]

the nerfs are nerfs lol, nothings gunna change

[cobalt gyro]

i mean KB clearly doing too much lol

[sudden brook]

This is like less than a 5% nerf I'm pretty sure lol

[dark token]

sub needs a 100% black powder buff

tbh

[cobalt gyro]

it makes sense to hit that

[brisk lily]

Sub is prolly better in raid, burst feels better to play than sustained in outlaw

[vital haven]

10.1

[final star]

I worked it out as 4% ish from my logs

[humble ginkgo]

these nerfs will do nothing

[haughty flicker]

so you're saying its over

rip gg fellas

[minor gate]

Looking at the nerf it’s doesn’t actually look that bad

[humble ginkgo]

You'll still get pi and augmented and you will still be 50k dps above everyone else

[manic quartz]

I'm just glad hunters go gutted aswell

[mighty crown]

insane nerf its over guys

sin is dead

[sudden brook]

Sub is still bait on tindral

[mighty crown]

[sudden brook]

And it's bad on fyrak

Gg noobs

[final star]

[humble ginkgo]

[earnest timber]

Oh yeah, sin dead so we can get rid of the freak rerollers

[tranquil cobalt]

It likely removes us as pi targets and Aug tho? It will end up being much more all included I would think?

[dark token]

guess you can say.... we were blindsided by the nerf

[brittle pawn]

some of you get pi and aug buffs?

[desert inlet]

PI still in the game

[humble ginkgo]

We should nerf sub just because of smolderon actually

[final star]

yeah that's why luml was telling us to play more aoe focus cos boss damage doesn't matter

[humble ginkgo]

buff outlaw because no one plays it

[earnest timber]

ez bait tbh

[sudden brook]

What? Lmao

[cobalt gyro]

unholy buffs are mainly aoe lol

wdym

[mighty crown]

topping on single target by 40k dps, and lost like 5%

[manic quartz]

dont think so, we are pretty ahead on pi charts

[shell kettle]

About 3.2% looking at top volco logs I think

[cobalt gyro]

who's pi'ing unholy for their aoe dmg

[humble ginkgo]

dead spec

[cobalt gyro]

i wanna speak with them

[buoyant herald]

Sounds about right

[humble ginkgo]

this channel is cooked

[mighty crown]

honestly think we got away with murder

[dark token]

its dead

[desert pasture]

kb directly nerfs hte pi value quite a bit

[dark token]

sub is king

[haughty flicker]

i cant believe its already over

[near valley]

don't mind me

[livid finch]

[tranquil cobalt]

With these nerfs and unholy buffs I wouldn't think so. But would love to be wrong

[split veldt]

so how bad is it, someone tell me how to feel

[livid finch]

imagine getting nerfed

[final star]

ur healer cd guy is raid leading us now he's so based :3c

[dusty trellis]

assa dead lets cry all

[near valley]

here to watch Whispyr lose his mind to peeps doomsaying

[sudden brook]

Dude nobody is playing unholy dk

[sudden brook]

[clever perch]

how big of a nerf is this

[sudden brook]

What do u mean udk is the better pi target haha

[mighty crown]

id say the specs that were competing with rogue got a worse nerf

[gray crest]

all you gotta do is scroll up my dude

[dusty trellis]

its killed assa

[sudden brook]

Yeah havoc got smashed

[dusty trellis]

go rerol

[dark token]

enough to make ur rl make u go outlaw

[cobalt gyro]

also i mean if you were running UDK for some reason

[sudden brook]

Havoc nerfs are so huge

[dark token]

wait does this mean

[cobalt gyro]

you were probably Pi'ing them on pull anyway

[jaunty hill]

I want to speak to the manager, where‘s Whispyr? 😭

[dark token]

assa is #1 key dps now

[humble ginkgo]

Hunter being nerfed more than rogue is good that means all the hunter players can stop begging for pi

[cobalt gyro]

because they still have that army

lol

[dark token]

havoc and bm bonked

[mighty crown]

amen rogue gets pi for 1 year

[gusty mirage]

bro

aint no way

[odd ingot]

This nerf is not that high

[gusty mirage]

yall are freaking out over a 15% nerf to KB and a 5% chance for blindside

AINT NO FUCKING WAY

[split veldt]

yeah i hate auggies and PI so much, i want my class to be good on its own, because then they balance around that, so what about all of us that dont get those buffs in raid >.<

[wide ridge]

nerf seems tame imo

[haughty flicker]

yeah its over

[odd ingot]

It's a good tune

[sudden brook]

Nah nobody freaking out I think

[slate crown]

Wait are people actually dooming?

[earnest timber]

LMAO

[humble ginkgo]

I dont think so

[shell kettle]

Nah

[waxen oyster]

nerf is a slap on the wrist

[dusty trellis]

should i go play shadow priest now ?

[slate crown]

I jsut sat down from making food and scrolled and this all seems like

[earnest timber]

ITS JOEVER (this is a bait to get rid of all rerollr freaks)

[odd ingot]

It's a good tuning I was expecting that 15%

[vapid skiff]

i mean most people are doing it for the memes i think only a few are actually serious about it

[vital haven]

im pretty sure everyone is ironic dooming

[pastel onyx]

holy dh got smacked

[slate crown]

We dodged a gutting

[hardy forge]

Are we talking 3% damage nerf or 5% damage nerf there

[waxen oyster]

would have rathered a damage nerf than blindside nerf

[jaunty hill]

It‘s over, back in F Tier we go

[waxen oyster]

personally

[clever sapphire]

too much text, i cant even decide if its dooming or whatever is happening

[haughty flicker]

i think one person or two people are serious

[slate crown]

There must be some meme here about Havoc taking the fall for us

[gusty mirage]

if it was nerfed because of externals it would've seen a 20% aura nerf

but ok

[dark token]

i was this close to going sin on smolderon next week

now its over

[hollow escarp]

Crying over 3% damage nerf

[dark token]

sin is dead

[odd ingot]

With Blindside effect I think around 3% all damage done.

[dark token]

(on smolderon)

[smoky leaf]

It's literally over I'm going to have to delete my rogue, sell my dog, liquidate all my assets and move to Alaska

[timber meadow]

i mean the kingsbane nerf is like 3.3% lmfao

[gusty mirage]

you were this close to purposefully inting your raid?

nice

[amber briar]

@gusty mirage huh

[ebon notch]

assa channel the same as always hahahaha

[haughty flicker]

i already deleted my rogue

[dark token]

its not an int its big dam

[earnest timber]

Outlaws do not interact

[violet hollow]

wtf

[haughty flicker]

i cant believe its over so fast

[sudden brook]

Sin got like a 4% nerf and then all the other op specs got huge nerfs

[dusty trellis]

like everybody else when there classes are nerfed

[sudden brook]

Lole

[dusty trellis]

kekw

[gusty mirage]

at best it's still 5% worse than sub on smolderon

so yes

inting

[fallen raven]

kb was way too nuts, it's still nuts

[dark token]

hence

[hardy forge]

aight, sin is dead, sub is my best friend now

[dark token]

sub is king now

gg

[sudden brook]

And I still played it pussy

[odd ingot]

How it is around 3.3% ?

It's not !

[clever perch]

cant find any useful

[twilit hollow]

guy outside outlaw channel

[gusty mirage]

coward denying the true spec

[odd ingot]

It's not dead yet

[split veldt]

whispyr is typing, he gonna tell us all how to feel

[gusty mirage]

smh my head

[clever perch]

people spamming too much

[dark token]

smolderon isnt a dps check

its a live check

[clever perch]

guys relax

[hardy forge]

for legal reasons, that was a meme

[odd ingot]

@balmy condor welp !

[waxen oyster]

if you think about it

[jaunty hill]

Good for me I already got my non daggers to get the bones rolling

[dark token]

assa is easy afk rotation

for easy living

[urban pasture]

oof new patch notes nerfed kingsbane and Blindside :C

[manic quartz]

hunter nerfs hit them in m+ pretty good aswell 🤌

[waxen oyster]

kb nerf isnt a thing if your kb gets parried

[dark token]

hence its smolderon bis

[tacit charm]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/upcoming-class-tuning-on-december-5-havoc-dh-assassination-rogue-and-bm-hunter-336515?webhook F

[cursive frost]

feels like this nerf is about the best we could have hoped for

[humble ginkgo]

its really not

[wide ridge]

im surprised caustic spatter wasnt nerfed tbh

[humble ginkgo]

just underplayed

[haughty flicker]

its joever reee

[timber meadow]

kingsbane does like 20% and that 20% is reduced by 15%

[lunar lantern]

i mean it is

[runic hinge]

Can we get slow mode for old times sake

[humble ginkgo]

Everyone saw liquid and echo played 2 sub and literally robots NPC's spec'd as sub

[civic forge]

got nerfed by proxy tho

[lunar lantern]

kingsbane is most of the caustic dmg

[dark token]

chat is going so fast no one will see i love outlaw

[odd ingot]

you lose 3% of your kingsbane damage not all of your damage done !

[gusty mirage]

ok

[balmy condor]

Nerfs:

The Nerfs are fine. Blindside and kingsbane are both very strong, these nerfs are targeted and perfectly valid to remove some burst. Its impact in m+ is minimal, and we're still incredibly strong overall.

Numbers (not reflective of any possible gameplay changes, just raw numbers)

To note, this doesn't impact raw PI value because the loss in kingsbane damage is offset from the energy PI gives, since we have less blindside procs now to overcap on. Still ~13k in bis profiles, and this actually makes the nerfs less impactful % wise for PI targets by about 0.2% to 0.3%

• In single target this totals to -4.4%, of which it's -1.9% from blindside and -2.4% from kingsbane
• Dungeonslice is around -2%. Your favorite build is underneath with more precise numbers, but it's gonna be around -2%Note time. Dungeonslice isn't gospel, people have been playing all of these builds and doing fine). Hyperlinks on the names are to the talent builds, hyperlinks on the numbers are to the screenshot with blindside/kingsbane/total breakdown. Hybrid doesn't take blindside, so there's no loss there obviously. Also y'all need to pick a build to play or something I get all the builds are playable and good and viable and have their little niches but this is getting ridiculous.
• Arterial -> -1.8% total nerf
• Hybrid -> -1.7% total nerf
• Cleave -> -2.1% total nerf
• Arterial no CT -> -1.8% total nerf
• Hybrid no CT -> -1.8% total nerf

[tacit charm]

HUH