assassination

[dark crag]

Yeah

[winter gale]

Muti for Envenom

[peak lake]

u can drop rupture if u want a bigger kb but add spawn and die on the first half of kb

[subtle tundra]

thats the normal opener, if you want to maximize add dmg on pull you drop rupture

[dark crag]

Top on the meter, green log

[peak lake]

so thats a really minmax

[winter gale]

Then DMKB sequence

[peak lake]

anyway

[subtle tundra]

do it a bit later into dm

[hazy violet]

i mean i make the macro including deathmark, a potion and the trinket and it activates everything but the trinket

[peak lake]

when u drop rupture u put in on the shadow dance, but this is the moment you have add spawned

so i pref the opposite

drop envenom and have it with caustic on add spawn

[strange python]

You gotta be precise when using these buttons you know are macro'd to like 3, 4 things. Like give it the extra 500 milliseconds and hit it when you know you're off the last GCD.

[hushed fern]

https://de.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wbRpCWVxBQvHdfNm#fight=34&type=damage-done

[final trench]

Does anyone macro KB with Shadow dance? I tried and noticed sometimes it doesnt work correctly.

is this a bad practice? and if not does anyone have a macro they use?

[peak lake]

i do

u just need to be carefull

bcs shadowdance is off gcd

when kb isnt

be sure to wait for a gcd beffore pressing

[winter gale]

I also have Trinket binded to check does it pop

I will just use it

Remove it from macro

And use the bind

[peak lake]

for ashes the guys who said to use it later was right

[dark crag]

Looks like mine but i was on top

[final trench]

ok, thank you!

I tried to macro Potion, trinket, tea, Shadow Dance, KB all togehter. that might be too much or not a good rpactice.

[peak lake]

ur doing 0 dmg on the dm - shiv - kb, and ashes decay

[winter gale]

It will take some time as I am musclememory idiot type of player

[peak lake]

so u wanna use it later

[dark crag]

Got pi around 15 to 10sec before dm

Stupid shadows

[winter gale]

Who?

[rustic violet]

beetter than getting none

[peak lake]

dont get pi from sp

[winter gale]

You?

[peak lake]

get a good holy or disco

[dark crag]

Yes

[peak lake]

😄

[hazy violet]

you'd use embersoul right before the 6-second-on-kingsbane-tea point, right?

[dark crag]

At nymue mythic

[arctic socket]

How much do you say PI helps us

[rustic violet]

we are among the top

[slim hamlet]

spriests are just PI machines they should wait with using it for their overlords CD's

[rustic violet]

iideally u should be in WF and PI

[winter gale]

I dont know why but also, I had 32 PIs while other guy had 40

[rustic violet]

but i get none coz BM

[lime crypt]

is there even a chance to compete with dh in keys

its so unreal

[peak lake]

ye

[slim hamlet]

U should never win against a DH in overall

[latent gazelle]

a good DH will always be top

[peak lake]

if the tank is low and do only little pack

😄

[slim hamlet]

If you win then the dh is bad

[final trench]

demon hunter's are pog champ.

[slim hamlet]

simple as that

[latent gazelle]

^^

[lime crypt]

im surprised there havent been any nerfs

[latent gazelle]

reset

[slim hamlet]

coming 5th december

[tardy nacelle]

Which proffessions are recommended for PvE M+/raids as rogue

[latent gazelle]

dec 5th there wil be

[rustic violet]

eng alc

[slim hamlet]

professions has no usage in retail

Alchemy can give u tiny bit more hp from a pot or movement speed

[latent gazelle]

alchey has longer phaisl

[slim hamlet]

But basically useless

[latent gazelle]

phials* only thing worth

[slim hamlet]

Yea but that is not a combat thing

[rustic violet]

dont forget decayology

if youre using corrupted rage

[slim hamlet]

Sure so you can save yourself 10k dmg throughout a raid night if u go corrupting phial

[tardy nacelle]

Okey, but any proff is recommended for new player to maybe earn some gold?

[violet trench]

Is this correct?

[rustic violet]

they arent meant to matter a tonne

[violet trench]

Intelect cloak?

[lime crypt]

thats not true

engineering

[slim hamlet]

so tell me what engineering does

[strange python]

yeah go cut a yard or shovel a driveway, and buy a wow token.

[lime crypt]

doesnt improve ur dps, but ensures your key from not depleting

[slim hamlet]

?

how

[lime crypt]

CR?

[violet trench]

dick measuring contest right there...

[slim hamlet]

U dont need engineering for that

[lime crypt]

you do if you dont want it to backfire

and one shot you

[hushed fern]

i dont get how we can have green logs with that dmg,

[gaunt moat]

It tells you how much % of KBs uptime did envenom cover.
your goal is to have 100%.

It also a green border around the envenom icon if envenom is up.
It starts glowing if envenom is about to drop.
it turns red if envenom is not up.

[rustic violet]

if you know how logs work you will understand

[strange python]

Because the top is all inflated by PI

[midnight atlas]

logs are screwed since aug evokers

[violet trench]

Is this accurate or a mistake?

[slim hamlet]

why would it not be accurate

[violet trench]

Okay, open the image

Read the tooltip

Rethink your message.

Christ almighty

[subtle tundra]

maybe just say

[slim hamlet]

I dont see a problem

[subtle tundra]

what the problem is?

[lime crypt]

did you know that cloaks have intellect AND agility AND strength

[violet trench]

Do we need a cloak with intelect?

[slim hamlet]

Rethink your message

Bro

[subtle tundra]

holy shit

youre so

[slim hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-my-honest-reaction-damn-skull-skeleton-gif-15885937969029652188

[subtle tundra]

FUCK

AAAAAAAAAAAAA

[slim hamlet]

You are the single dumbest person

I have talked to in here

[steel geyser]

Hahahahhaha

[subtle tundra]

your ego was dripping

[slim hamlet]

all cloaks have all main stats

[subtle tundra]

and then you say the most stupid shit

[slim hamlet]

and bro flames me

xdd

[slim hamlet]

I actually got braindamage there

[rustic violet]

i thought this was the mage diiscord sorry

[violet trench]

Thank you 🙂

I did not know it can have all main stats

[slim hamlet]

Perfect

[steel geyser]

The audacity

[slim hamlet]

Rethink your message

[violet trench]

Wowhead didn't list it either for me to conclude that

[lime crypt]

everything can except for trinkets and weapons i think

[subtle tundra]

maybe dont come off so arrogant when you dont know what youre talking about 😦

[rustic violet]

i think you neeed the cloak of intellect though bro

[midnight atlas]

chasing after bis lists is for classic andies

[slim hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/holy-holy-schnikes-shocked-gif-12391823

[violet trench]

I'll just ignore your insults and tilt attempts - I came here to ask something after visting wowhead and reading the guide and noticing the tooltip, checking ingame dungeon guide - none of that indicated to me it could roll with agility / other stats

But its okay

[strange python]

Don't mind these guys - they are dripping toxicity from their boots

[violet trench]

Im glad I made your day and you are superior in every way

[hazy violet]

that cloak has vers mastery though, not haste mastery

[strange python]

They can't help it, they build this way

[lime crypt]

thats what threw me away

i was thinking we are staying away from vers

[violet trench]

So then I guess its the wowheads API that brings in the tooltip thats outdated

[slim hamlet]

Sure and I said there was no problem and you said I should rethink my message and said "christ almighty" as if I am the dumbest person

[violet trench]

Sad is ingame guide also lists the drop with Intelect

so for a casual its hard to pinpoint the exact item that it could drop

In the game

And thus I came here 🙂

[subtle tundra]

does it

[rustic violet]

lol

[strange python]

The whole loot pool visisbility from the "older dungeons" has always been all f'd up

[strange python]

I hate that

[slim hamlet]

It's fine to ask question

[violet trench]

Thanks for the info! Learend something today 🙂

[slim hamlet]

Don't be a dick if we answer

[lime crypt]

i keep hoping that my damage gets better once i get branch

[rustic violet]

it will

[slim hamlet]

It will

[hazy violet]

guys do i take mythic track shoulders to catalyze or heroic brand from vault? (i only have branch and eggshell)

[radiant hawk]

Yo guys, what is your favorite Trinket Combination atm?

[hazy violet]

the shoulders have avoidance

[slim hamlet]

Actually insane how much branch bumped my dmg

[strange python]

prolly shoudlers ESP with avoidance

[flint tusk]

Wtf have i just read.

[rustic violet]

shoulders

i got leeech on shoulders and cheest

[gaunt moat]

You could ty being a bit more polite in the future though

[slim hamlet]

If I could choose, branch + pips. I got branch + signet right now which is also fine, but I dislike the rng of signet

[rustic violet]

and i pretty much am a dh now

[flint tusk]

how can someone be so ignorant but so sure at the same time.
that's negative IQ status

[violet trench]

Will do 🙂

[hazy violet]

it feels REALLY bad to not pick the trinket though

[slim hamlet]

I would pick shoulders

[little tulip]

I have branch and ashes, feels pretty good but have to deal with the use cooldowns

[slim hamlet]

Signet u can get without vault, shoulders probably not for a while

[rustic violet]

itll feel worse when you realiized at thee eend of the season you only saw shoulders wwith avoiidance once and 10 brands

[gaunt moat]

does pips sim higher for you than sandglass?

well, heroic pip

[drifting cedar]

How do you manage to collect all the branch orbs amidst mechanics chaos?

[hazy violet]

god you're all so right

[slim hamlet]

Shoulders also help u in all content, signet is kinda meh on some bosses and in dungeons

[little tulip]

ADHD

[slim hamlet]

I don't think so I can check. I have really low haste right now, and really high vers so my sims are kinda weird

[flint tusk]

you'll get it after a few uses. you sorta learn the movement for the first two then let the third drift in

[strange python]

Cast branch, walk to one ball, dont move

[slim hamlet]

Pips is 0.2% for me and sandglass 0.5%

upgrading signet would be 0.6%

in a good fight for it ofc

[grim jay]

Would never feel bad about tertiary stats. That aside, brand isnt THE shit out there anyways

[gaunt moat]

I got branch and i got heroic ashes (so same ilvl)
i use ashes. cba with branch. it sucks ass. really.

[radiant hawk]

Ok ty. I don't know whether I should use Signet or Pips. Signet sim higher then pips

[slim hamlet]

Pips for m+ 100%

[final trench]

what about smolderon trinket? seems really good.

[strange python]

Yeah if I can get an ashes, i'll be replacing branch for sure

[slim hamlet]

And pips also probably just better for most heroic/early mythic because they die so fast

depends on your group ofc

[subtle tundra]

only boss i'd play ashes is tindral mythic

so far

otherwise branching is fun

[final trench]

ok, so gotta hunt for pips and witherbark

[slim hamlet]

I enjoy branching too

[flint tusk]

what is this i'm hearing. people willingly taking a damage loss for quality of life.
are you acro enjoyers or something

[slim hamlet]

When u dont overthink it

[tardy nacelle]

What GS should I have to get into heroic raids without previous hc experience (Only had done 9/9 normal)

[strange python]

i not only spec acro, but TTK too

[gaunt moat]

i am. i use the no dance build

[grim jay]

Signet is sucky sucky until 5min+

[slim hamlet]

I wouldn't play branch on fyrakk, and probably not mythic smolderon either

If I had the choice when I get there

[gaunt moat]

and guess what, using no dance and no branch i parse higher than with them 🙂

[slim hamlet]

What is this slander!

[grim jay]

Dang the danes

[slim hamlet]

People choosing to enjoy the game by making changes that makes it better for them!

[steel geyser]

Branch on smolderon is fine, you get used to it

[rustic violet]

you colleect orbs on smolderon anyway go collect a couplee more?

[slim hamlet]

Only way to enjoy the game is to look good on dps meters!

[radiant hawk]

😂😂

[flint tusk]

yeh it's almost like that's what people have been saying for years but no fucker listens becuz meh damage

[strange python]

I get 91's with my qol build...that looks pretty good to me anyway.

[grim jay]

Real and based

[strange python]

And i just straight chill

[grim jay]

Scrub

[gaunt moat]

It's not just about enjoyment
I actually think branch is not good.

[flint tusk]

Lies. your quality of life is no kingsbane

[glossy imp]

Only thing that matters is you’re having fun man

[strange python]

cept when i come in here, and your guys' dripping toxicity from your toxic thorn footwraps gets on me

[glossy imp]

Godspeed

[strange python]

[slim hamlet]

FOTM rollers probably hard int themself, so if u are good at the game and play less dps build u probably do better

gg

[strange python]

If I could remove kingsbane, i would

[grim jay]

No u

[slim hamlet]

[strange python]

that'd be the first thing to go

[grim jay]

Kingsbane is bae

[strange python]

then dance

[slim hamlet]

Only build take I can't take is no KB build

[flint tusk]

naa outlaw would be the first thing to go

[slim hamlet]

No KB build and no iron wire build

[flint tusk]

get rid of all the ADHD children from the class

[slim hamlet]

only illegal builds

[strange python]

yeah i mean i did a lot of simming and like ~20% is too much to lose

[winter gale]

I must fix all my mistakes asap

[slim hamlet]

But

[grim jay]

Kb is the one thing I wanted back for sin

Lol

[slim hamlet]

If we did 20% less we still on top right guys?

That's what the logs say

[strange python]

[slim hamlet]

Right?

[winter gale]

Now when we are pumping I cannot be so bad

[subtle tundra]

kb would be the last thing to give up

[dark crag]

It's possible

[subtle tundra]

the only interesting ability we have

[flint tusk]

i just want them to fix aug hooks before doing bloody anything. but that's some giga hopium right there

[slim hamlet]

aintnoway

[glossy imp]

I mean blizzard has internal metrics right?

[slim hamlet]

Who named themself "it's in the wowhead guide"

[subtle tundra]

ask whispyr about that

[glossy imp]

[slim hamlet]

Their combat logs are the same as ours I guess

[grim jay]

I think I had 99 with 235k

[dark crag]

It's in the wowhead guide

[slim hamlet]

So they also got fucked up aug hooks

[glossy imp]

I’ve had this name for weeks

[flint tusk]

[slim hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/welcome-to-the-internet-welcome-internet-gif-4479957

wtf is this

[flint tusk]

you watch they'll fix the hooks and we won't even be able to get a 60 parse xD

[tawny barn]

so for embelishments, toxified patch or silken lining ?

[slim hamlet]

I just searched guide

[grim jay]

The hooks are from them

So ye

[strange python]

It's not that bad lol

actually

[flint tusk]

uhm

delusional

mr anti kingsbane gets no say

[glossy imp]

Sheeeeesh

[strange python]

jeez

[slim hamlet]

idk it's sanguine blades which is always a good portion + Spatter which on a couple of fights are like 10%

[grim jay]

Tbf I exlusively got my logs without aug

[slim hamlet]

And they find new fucked hooks every day

[slim hamlet]

Yesterday was first day I had an aug

and it was on normal only

[grim jay]

[slim hamlet]

I was like "OMG I just did 350k on smolderon with no bl dmg amp"

[bold lodge]

i exploded my ad totem at 30%

[slim hamlet]

and then I realised we had an aug which was like 40-50k of that

fucking scam

[flint tusk]

heh but did you have wf 😛

First raid since rework without it last night. bruh the pain is real

[slim hamlet]

Just switch to sub if no wf

oh wait

[lyric grail]

U need to get pi/aug/windsurf in group to pump?

[grim jay]

Windfury and 1 PI mate, but thats only hc

M is private

[slim hamlet]

aug is fake numbers

[flint tusk]

"private" sussy bugger

[slim hamlet]

aug is only for n00bs

[flint tusk]

😛

[grim jay]

Noone wants to play aug in my guild and you cant find new aug people

[flint tusk]

damn would be nice being able to kill stuff that quick. sadly my guild seems obsessed with taking along the weeds....

[lyric grail]

What Ilvl logs are that ?

450?

[slim hamlet]

We got an aug

But he doesn't know what he is doing in raid

I got buffed for the first time in 6 raid night yesterday when our healer switched to aug for a normal run

[dark crag]

With scuffed aug hooks and pi logs are so worthless like never before

[grim jay]

Those are overall, not ilvl. I have 477 tho

[slim hamlet]

idk u can get 99's without aug scamming

probably never hitting a 100 without

[lyric grail]

U need good trinkets to hit 99s

[slim hamlet]

no

Helps but u dont need

[lyric grail]

U can’t get that with random trinkets no way

Just too much passive dmg

[grim jay]

My awesome 470 sandglass struck me those

[slim hamlet]

I got it with dogshit mirror giving vers and dht egg

[flint tusk]

i mean sandglass lel

[dark crag]

In hc you just need itemlvl and good killtime but hc logs are

[slim hamlet]

Yep

Heroic is all killtimer

[grim jay]

And crits

[flint tusk]

all the crits

[dark crag]

You will never parse 99 in mythic without pi and/or aug

[slim hamlet]

How fast are people killing volocross btw

[flint tusk]

it's beacon all over again just feels less bad xD

[slim hamlet]

That shit dies so fast now

2 min 19 for us

heroic

[lyric grail]

Idk I rly need some help I did my 3 first mythic bosses yesterday and all 45 parses

[slim hamlet]

It's normal to not parse high on early mythic

[grim jay]

Thats a bad one

[slim hamlet]

People are geared af, and already got used to the fights

[grim jay]

Just a few sec more

[slim hamlet]

U are not generally gonna parse on first mythic kills

[flint tusk]

2:46 yesterday with 4 dps less than tanks....

[dark crag]

Or 2nd or 3rd

[lyric grail]

I got 469 Ilvl and my sim on st gets me to ~200k

[winter gale]

How aug thingie works? My aug said he is targeting 3 ppl, me and two more

[slim hamlet]

idfk

thought it was 4

ask the aug discord they probably know more

We just here getting mad when they fuck up our logs

[flint tusk]

you intentionally trying to make em catch something?

[slim hamlet]

is this a "catch deez nuts" joke?

i dont understand

[lyric grail]

U played on council the carnage build ?

[flint tusk]

sending them to the Aug discord to catch some kind of virus

[slim hamlet]

I just switched dashing for IC and IB for spatter

and it feels great on council

[flint tusk]

^^^

[slim hamlet]

Went from hating the fight to it being decent

Much better than SBS no IC thing imo

[thorn fjord]

That was W1 baby

[steel geyser]

Yeah that's what ppl do

[lyric grail]

My guild splits melee and range to the 2 outer ones and we cleave the bear of them

[bitter trout]

It’s still an ass fight tho

[flint tusk]

yeh the fight is pretty fun honestly just gotta embrace the multi dotting as you run past stuff

[thorn fjord]

morning sinners

[slim hamlet]

Depends on your tanks

[thorn fjord]

I got a full day of falls ahead of me

[lyric grail]

Not sure how should I ever parse with that

[slim hamlet]

If your tanks are just cockass or don't care to group them right, like we didn't do in heroic then IC is just useless and you hate your life always

[lyric grail]

They’re never stacked

[slim hamlet]

How we play it on mythic it feels great

[flint tusk]

[bitter trout]

When your tanks taunt the bear with .2 seconds left on the frontal and he does a casual 180 no scope on the melee

[cursive frost]

Yeah I honestly just want to get my council kill then volunteer to sit it for rest of tier on mythic

[slim hamlet]

We wiped on all with 2% hp because we accidentally taunted last second

https://tenor.com/view/cat-despair-meme-atone-gif-18083281511005463831

[spice surge]

Why do you want to play the worst boss and then sit all the good bosses?

[slim hamlet]

he wants to sit council on farm

[bitter trout]

I got kill last week and I have been sat out for it thank god

[cursive frost]

Meaning not do that fight again

[slim hamlet]

I was told I was gonna be sitting council prog

[cursive frost]

I sat for our kill last week

[slim hamlet]

was pogging out

[thorn fjord]

Why tho

[spice surge]

Dont even need to do it once really

[slim hamlet]

then one of our raiders got semi banned from game and needed to name change and I had to join

[cursive frost]

Just want chance at mythic pip in vault too

[slim hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-despair-meme-atone-gif-18083281511005463831

[thorn fjord]

LOL what was his name?

[slim hamlet]

For vaults idk

[spice surge]

You get it for the vault by killing any boss after it

[slim hamlet]

analfarmer

[wheat fern]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[cursive frost]

Oh ya forgot they changed it

[thorn fjord]

lolol

[manic matrix]

dumb question I guess but how do I know if sims are using hissing or buzzing rune?

[cursive frost]

So when Larry dies this week in golden

Im

[cursive frost]

There is a drop down option at bottom before you run it

Can select tons of different options

[slim hamlet]

I think default is buzzing

bud idk how you would check it

[grim jay]

On buffs

[thorn fjord]

Wouldnt that just be an advance sim?

[grim jay]

[slim hamlet]

It only shows external buffs

if it's the bufflist I am thinking off

[cursive frost]

It’s below that

Right by where you select phial and such

[flint tusk]

open the HTML report and go down to gear

[subtle tundra]

man, am i just bad or why cant i parse 😦

[slim hamlet]

nvm it just specifically doesnt show runes

[grim jay]

There should be one that shows the others aswell

[cursive frost]

Which I recommend simming for prog with vers phial

[slim hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/krill-issue-skill-issue-krill-issue-gif-25572478

[subtle tundra]

that is true

[cursive frost]

What difficulty are you trying to parse on?

[slim hamlet]

where the fuck

[flint tusk]

open html report xD

[subtle tundra]

hc boost 😦

[slim hamlet]

where html report

[subtle tundra]

but in other patches i'd easily get 95+ every boss

[cursive frost]

Heroic you will be working against people getting major externals, great gear and probably favorable kill times

[subtle tundra]

fill with 99s eventually

[slim hamlet]

is it only in quick sims

[grim jay]

https://tenor.com/view/aba-anime-battle-arena-okuyasu-damage-gif-23642542

[flint tusk]

ye

[slim hamlet]

oh

man I got 5125 vers

it's over

[cursive frost]

Sometimes I TRY to be an ethical raider lol

[flint tusk]

filthy sub player

imagine playing sub 👀

[slim hamlet]

I haven not even respecced sub this patch

not even to fix wa

[grim jay]

Dunno if that has anything to do with ethical and the flask debate is pretty old

[lyric grail]

I don’t even know how to sim myself like I can’t even pick haste/mastery/crit - gems/enchants cause I’m over the free use

[slim hamlet]

I even respecced outlaw to fix wa's

[short sedge]

Secondary stat prio is a myth ask whyspir

[cursive frost]

Dreading playing it for smolderon

[strange python]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[slim hamlet]

Yes it is

But u dont want omega vers

[flint tusk]

you've got more than just the gems selected then.

[short sedge]

Yes I do

I play outlaw

🙂

[slim hamlet]

[upper elm]

Yo how big is the dps difference between restealth in m+ vs not

[lyric grail]

Yea 1 ring

[flint tusk]

yeh you're asking it to sim all of the gems twice

[slim hamlet]

not very high, only semi important part from restealths is iron wire

[cursive frost]

Are you saying the vers from tepid phial isn’t a big enough deal to switch off corrupting?

[lyric grail]

How do I turn that off ?

I need to pick replace existing gem or ?

[flint tusk]

just gotta unselect the extra ring. otherwise uncheck the "replace existing gems" option if you're checking rings

[thorn fjord]

buahahaha

thats without tepid

[cursive frost]

Holy vers

[slim hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/wow-holy-cow-gif-20790708

Mine was with tepid

[subtle tundra]

my sim REALLY wants me to get rid of crit and get vers/haste

[slim hamlet]

taking corrupting is only 1.3% dps gain for me over tepid right now

[subtle tundra]

this could be why

[slim hamlet]

Even tho I got so much vers

[thorn fjord]

OL loadout tho im at like 12% with tepid in sin @slim hamlet lol

[subtle tundra]

nvm thats why flask, still 5,5k

[dusky nebula]

how much haste should I aim for as a new Sin?

[lyric grail]

Is anyone farming bis items after fuus bis list ? Is that still up to date ?

[subtle tundra]

nobody farms bis items

except dagger/trinket

[flint tusk]

you shouldn't

[dusky nebula]

I see, thanks. I have low gear and I cannot keep enven buff up and stay over 50% energy

[cursive marsh]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[flint tusk]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[spice surge]

You cant do that with bis gear either

Gear has almost no impact on it

[lyric grail]

Which trinkets ?

[subtle tundra]

branch mostly

and then there's a bunch of 2nd trinkets that are good

[tropic tundra]

the whole bis list in this game is mostly about theorycrafting, not actuall farming goals

[lyric grail]

I got sandglass ?

[tropic tundra]

p good

but you'd want an on-use for our burst

[tall atlas]

i literally came here for this conversation and its happening

amazing

so branch and snek?

[subtle tundra]

trinket conversatioN?

[lyric grail]

Have branch too

[subtle tundra]

witherbark/ashes + sandglass/brand/crab/pip

[flint tusk]

BIS list is only accurate with all of teh BIS items.
one of them wrong and items change.
get main stat mastery ring instead of a haste one. it would spit out a different BIS list.

least for most of us outside of trinkets and daggers ilvl is king as a super simplified view of it

[spare cradle]

What's the benefit of pooling on envenom rather than mutilate/ambush? Is it to simplify timing envenoms for chaining?

[lyric grail]

Main stat crit gem ? Or mastery ?

[strong wing]

Why does sandglass sims more than cata

wasnt it better in ST the cata?

[tropic tundra]

short fight probably

cata max damage is 3min+

[strong wing]

bloodmallet says cata sims better

[slim hamlet]

If u got like no haste sandglass better too

[tropic tundra]

trust your own sim when deciding for your char

[strong wing]

patchwerk 5 mins sim

[tropic tundra]

same ilvl?

[strong wing]

yup

[obsidian ridge]

cant miss casting envenom during envenom for 4pc, so just get to adequate CP and send envenom just as your previous one runs out

[unique nymph]

Guys, which build are you using this week?

[strong wing]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sqhuiDbvSFGGT5do9xtHiW

[spice surge]

You want to mutilate with envenom up so you get more poisons out, but also you cant chain envenom if you wait until 1s left of envenom buff to start building the cp for the next envenoms

[strong wing]

there you go

sim there

[lyric grail]

Which of the off gems are u guys picking for sim out of the twelve ?

[flint tusk]

everything except main stat vers imo

[unique nymph]

Ye, im going for mastery haste

I think that is best

[spice surge]

Secondary stats dont really matter

[flint tusk]

ultimately the difference across all your gear is pretty small

like a few hundred dps max

[spice surge]

either one should be fine

[grim jay]

Bloodmallet trinket sims are always great

[grim jay]

Thats statism!

[flint tusk]

Yup, just the way the world.... of warcraft intended

least it's not like sub last tier where they actively aimed for negative haste xD

[swift fossil]

!ambush

guys do you have macro for mutilate + ambush under one button?

[grave osprey]

Any tips for a brand new Sin player? Id like to consider myself a pro at outlaw but having a hard time getting the Sin rotation down. Primarily the opener. Is there a “easy” version of our current build?

[spice surge]

You dont need one, pressing mutilate with blindside up casts ambush

And then you can just replace mutilate with ambush on your stealth bar

[whole mason]

how does haste and crit affect demise?

[spice surge]

Haste like expected, crit not at all

[whole mason]

great

cheers

[grim jay]

Not really tbf. Id just read the guide, watch whispyrs Videos and maybe write down the opener somewhere

[flint tusk]

You need to go hit a dummy for a little bit.
don't bother trying to get the timing perfect at the start just get the abilities in the right order

additionally getting kingsbane weakauras for timing will help also

[grim jay]

Method raid Tools has a note feature you can use for difficult parts

[flint tusk]

then you'll start getting muscle memory/timing down without it

[vast swan]

As someone that has a terrible memory... is there a way to make a weak aura just to help me remember the opener? Sort of like Hekili, only temporary and better

[finite echo]

just practice it

[grim jay]

Id use the mrt note function exactly for that

Tbh

[whole seal]

U can fill empty action bars with rotation and look at it - u may die looking at it tho

[near valley]

order ur action bars as your opener

[random river]

aside from 2 extra pis, what's this rogue doing that I'm not?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yT1kQnzaRvCGgr2A#fight=10&type=damage-done

[grim jay]

One might say damage

Jk

Did you compare maintenance stuff uptime?

Similar ilvl/gear?

[near valley]

was about to say that

[rotund wagon]

Their name isn’t outlaw coded

[vast swan]

Might start with the notes feature to start, so I don't then have to try and relearn key binds after entirely too many years of playing alone/open world farming. Cheers!

[jaunty ginkgo]

Does anyone else find assa really hard to play in keys? I feel like particularly with this week's affixes

[keen aurora]

If tank chain pulls before spiteful fades it's kinda crap yeah

[grim jay]

Yeah keybinds need to make sense to you, not some rotational order. The note feature is underrated

[cursive frost]

The shades makes it harder but still pretty easy once you get the hang of it

[keen aurora]

Not as bad as it used to be though, shadow dance helps a lot

[cursive frost]

It takes practice in keys to get used to

[frail forge]

Sin is challenging to min/max in keys but when you get it down it can pump pretty good imo

[cursive frost]

Especially if you are used to sub or outlaw that is much more direct front loaded

[jaunty ginkgo]

I feel like all tanks in my pugs chain pull so can never restealth

[cursive frost]

Doesn’t hurt to just tell them to let you get restealth when possible

[grim jay]

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

Long In-depth explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:
https://youtu.be/DoZDPFk_Zog
The TLDW (I understand, it's LONG):

• Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
• This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths
• You still have vanish and in 10.2, shadow dance, which gives you MANY options to get your stealth effects
• This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years

[frail forge]

Although when you fck it up you do dog shit lol lot of it comes down to pack size and king bane windows on splatter target

[near valley]

apparently it does

cause they still don't do it

lmao

all gas no breaks

[strange python]

I just figure if they want me to open from stealth, they'll let me restealth. They must be happy with things as they are. I don't say anything.

[near valley]

[jaunty ginkgo]

this

[cursive frost]

I have had decent luck with just asking politely

[frail forge]

Restealths are still important for iron wire tho. Let's you setup your dmg for a bit before required kicks start coming through

[strange python]

I don't worry about it

[frail forge]

But yah vanish and shadow dance are important this week for that

[cursive frost]

Shadow dance is a big help

[rotund wagon]

I stopped exclusively using kingsbane and dance together. Using dance and vanish to spread lots of bleeds and then use them with dm and kingsbane when convenient has been working for me so far

In keys that is

[jaunty ginkgo]

yeah i've been thinking may this is a solution

I've been saving SD for KB only

and between 15-20 mobs die so quickly anyway that kb+dm doesn't seem to be too good

[keen aurora]

It's also not just garrote though, restealth lets you get 6rupture with 2 finisher casts

[near valley]

it makes life easier yes

[cursive marsh]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[keen aurora]

But agree with it not being a huge deal

[near valley]

it also makes it less likely you lose where ur KB target is in big pulls

[grim jay]

I mean its a fact, not even something to agree on

[jaunty ginkgo]

surely the effect of IC offsets this slightly though

like on a pack of 9 you can get essentially 18 garottes off

vs 1

[grim jay]

It feels bad, yes, but it aint that bad

[keen aurora]

Yeah I was going to say, that comment doesn't account for IC so... No, not really gospel

[jaunty ginkgo]

if restealthed

[grim jay]

Bro what

[jaunty ginkgo]

not mentioned rupture

[grim jay]

Dont let Whispyr read that

He will start fuming

[spare cradle]

Whispyr's wowhead assassination single target rotation guide (and his pooling practice wa) says to build until 5+ combo points but to Envenom at 4+ combo points. Is that a mistake? If it's not why are these numbers different? - my mistake this is only during the opener

[jaunty ginkgo]

why?

[slow needle]

Because this has been discussed to death.

And the answer remains the same.

Restealths just don't matter.

In the grand scheme of things.

[grim jay]

Its a stupid assumption. It obviously includes IC

[junior scroll]

Goodmorning! Was hoping someone could take a quick peak at this log and maybe see anything wrong/going on as to why dmg is a bit low compared to others rogues around the same kill time.. for volcoross specifically. I am struggling to find any differences https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/np6bQMtxmf4zjFJT#fight=59&type=damage-done&source=17

[slow needle]

Watch the full video if you want to know more.

If you don't want to watch the full video assume the comment is correct.

[jaunty ginkgo]

will do - just seemed like a reasonable question tbh

[hexed willow]

Restealths don’t matter in the scheme of damage

[urban mantle]

It is good to use [Ashes of the Embersoul] 463 ilvl and [Witherbark's Branch] 463 ilvl together? I saw they are very good on single target dmg. But the raidbots say [Harlan's Loaded Dice] 425 ilvl is better the the Branch for raids. I don't know what to use. Can you guys help me out

[hexed willow]

But it does provide convenience in the context of IC and IW

[finite echo]

opener sequence: you SND first, he garrotes first. garrote is correct. you also apply a low CP rupture
Burst 1: you tea slightly late, you vanish slightly early. you onjly get 3 envenoms and he gets 5
4p: you have 88.25% uptime, they have 96.61% uptime (this is big). they drop envenom twice, you drop it 13 times

[hexed willow]

His video doesn’t say stealthing is useless

[slow needle]

You have SD and Vanish for the times you need IW though.

[hexed willow]

Exactly

[grim jay]

Its reasonable to expect the single person doing the sims and guides to include IC in their thought process if its a must take in m+ when talking about restealths in an m+ scenario while mentioning stealth effects

[slow needle]

And its like, you kinda know ahead of time when you'd generally want to use those.

And plan backwards from there.

[hollow stream]

Picked up a Cruel Dreamcarver, is there a goto thing I should be attuning to? The leech buff seems decent, but Ive mostly been using the speed/mountspeed

[hexed willow]

!dagger

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1179077804189560932/image.png?ex=657878c6&is=656603c6&hm=40d354b599c48477390ae8ef0933607ebacbb8972ad82b65383541f41565aacb&=&format=webp&width=895&height=428

[hexed willow]

I like the speed, but I just dropped mine yesterday

[strange python]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[jaunty ginkgo]

It was just a question whether that included IC usage as it didn't mention it once

jeeez

chill

[woven frost]

You nailed the opener with one exception- add that vanish in at the last 3 seconds of KB before that last garrote

[turbid quail]

so in aoe envenom is better to use as a finisher if CT is already up because of tier and splatter right?

vs just spamming ct

[grim jay]

Its mentioned with stealth abilities as its a staple stealth ability in m+.
And you didnt particularly ask, you started it as if IC wouldnt be included

[surreal citrus]

no reason to spam ct

it has no instant damage component

[turbid quail]

oh maybe it used to

[quick idol]

God I hate dj with a lot of smallies when playing with BM and havoc

[turbid quail]

my bad

[quick idol]

You cant do aoe

[surreal citrus]

it used to yeah

[finite echo]

Also there are times you muta at 4 cp in KB window

[quick idol]

they are dead in 5gcd

and you are below tank dmgs

[tacit charm]

what do yall think about cold blood over deeper strat

[jaunty ginkgo]

Well sorry for making a 'stupid' assumption, I'll try not to ask 'stupid' questions again

[turbid quail]

tbf theyre dead before i remember what outlaws rotation is anyway

[spare hawk]

Hi, how sanguine blades works? i need to play above 50% of my energy or renew garrote and rupture above 50% of my energy ._ .?

[tacit charm]

once you have 4 pc you dont need to worry about it

[grim jay]

Asking is fine, noone said anything against it

[slow needle]

The effect switches on/off above/below 50%

But don't worry about it.

Follow the rotation on wowhead with pooling.

And you'll not have to think about sanguine blades.

[spare hawk]

Ok, ty

[ocean ginkgo]

anyone tested the doomwalker neck?

[placid rock]

any raid encounters that deviate from the generic raid build? I imagine you swap IB for spatter on something like gnarlroot or larodar?

[dark token]

IC on council

spatter on all fights with adds

[midnight atlas]

i guess no spatter on council?

[long pecan]

Outside of CDs should i always stay above 150 energy?

[grim jay]

The pins tested it

[topaz vine]

Anyone else having issues with stealth? I keep going out of it in both raid and m+.. i dont click anything it just does it over and over again..

[shut lotus]

Quick question on spatter: whats the range of it? My spear dps on mythic igira is very low and I am not sure if its my mistake or if spears are just too far away.

[placid rock]

what do you swap out for IC on council?

[dark token]

poison crit energy thingy

[modest glen]

Dashing scoundrel?

[dark token]

ye

[modest glen]

Is what i swapped for it but wasnt sure if its right

[placid rock]

ah sweet, cheers

[dark token]

10 yards

tell ur dps to stack tighter

[finite echo]

poor 4p/envenom management: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/np6bQMtxmf4zjFJT#fight=59&type=auras&source=17&ability=32645 , dropping 7 times
6 teas on a 4:30 fight, could get 1 more
burst 2: you shiv - mut - envenom - kb, should be shiv - kb. this fucks up your entire sequence, you then tea 4 seconds into kb and shiv 11 seconds in.
burst 4: you just straight up dont use 2nd shiv or tea until second 13 of kb (2nd to last global).

also fight timing is awful for you because boss dies the 2nd global after your dm opener

[dark token]

u spatter on any multitarget

council is multitarget

[smoky leaf]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[coarse bear]

94% envenom uptime isn’t terrible unless it’s during KB

[random river]

ty

[finite echo]

its not about % uptime

its about drops

high parses on volcross will not drop 7 times

[slow chasm]

Spatter and IC on council

[slow chasm]

Too low

[dark token]

[slow chasm]

you have to be 496 to do 16s

[stable flint]

You just have to be dh to do keys

[slow chasm]

^^^

[stable flint]

Ppl rather pick 450 dh than 480 rogue

[fervent jasper]

St rotation

Garrote>mut>rup>mut>SnD>mut to 5 or 6 CP>Envenom>Deathmark>shiv>dance>kingsbane>garrote>tea?

[tough night]

yo guys is it worth dropping an Envenom chain to pool for an incoming Deathmark cooldown? Let's say for example I have 150 energy, rupture in pandemic timer and envenom about to expire. 1 tea up but we keep it for end of kingsbane I assume, what would be the right way to play this?

[finite echo]

do you really run out of energy in that situation

idts

unless you are like 10 seconds away from kb or something

but assuming you are a few globals away

[coarse bear]

Prob just envenom and send KB then refresh rupture during NS

[tough night]

or rather is there an amount of energy that should be pooled before DM+KB?

[quartz lance]

Do people bind Igira dagger to Kingsbane or are y'all manually pressing it?

[tough night]

because having no energy for a global inside KB is atrocious

[finite echo]

you only need to make it to the tea timer in kb without going bankrupt

[strange python]

you just gotta press it once ever in your life

[tough night]

also would it be an idea to use tea for energy and not use in KB if I have Witherbark?

actually tea mastery increase is flat so probably not worth....

[silk merlin]

i finaly got the wither bark trinket, what is the optimal way of useing so i dont fuck that shit up? 😄

[high crypt]

@finite echo true highest parse only dropped 6 times

[quartz lance]

I thought it was a 1 minute CD. Is the buff permanent?

[strange python]

yes

[quartz lance]

What creature is considered "optimal" then?

[strange python]

leech or mv speed

[vast loom]

!dagger

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1179077804189560932/image.png?ex=657878c6&is=656603c6&hm=40d354b599c48477390ae8ef0933607ebacbb8972ad82b65383541f41565aacb&=&format=webp&width=895&height=428

[final trench]

I noticed the guide suggests wafting devotion and have seen people running that, when 10.2 dropped I thought it was recommended to using sophic.

how much better is wafting?

[tough night]

Enoc i think best way is to sim your character

[strange python]

It's as much better (or worse) as your sim says

[cursive frost]

Sim it

[wind jungle]

Use it on a beast at the fountain in valdrakken and go live life

[vast loom]

sim it

[final trench]

I plan to, I am not in a place where I am able to. I was just seeking general opinions.

thanks!

[tough night]

also another question, let's say I do not have a tea coming soon and I estimate that I will go bankrupt on energy if I maintain envenom chain and dots; would it be worth to stop the chain early and pool my energy and then start a new one when I have like 200+ energy?

[strange python]

Is that following the rules?

then no

[stark oxide]

Do we let our stealthed rupture/garrote bleed out entirely before refreshing? We don't want to overwrite them early with an unbuffed version right?

[tough night]

what do you mean?

[slate crown]

Correct

[strange python]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[finite echo]

and 2nd highest parse only dropped 3 times
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wYtmZnR2DLKG3Fv1#fight=23&type=auras&ability=32645

idk what point you're trying to make but dropping envenom is worse than not dropping envenom

[rotund wagon]

I mean it says if it becomes too uncomfy to pool up and go again so yes it is following the rules

[strange python]

Nowhere does it say "pull back to about 200 energy, then start again"

[tough night]

"- If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain"
But even in this situation we should still rupture right?

[strange python]

nowhere does it say "if in a hypothetical scenario where you anticipate you may run out of energy, and anticipate you will get zero blindside procs, start a pool early"

[tough night]

idk 80% energy is like 240

[strange python]

just rollow the rules

[mighty nexus]

https://youtu.be/UG0zGACDAuY?si=8HHS9jqoPGRsWedi

ez

[tough night]

You say to follow the rules but they are defined as "if it's getting uncomfortable to chain" which is a subjective assessment

[strange python]

you asked if you are anticipating you will run out of energy

should you pool back to about 200

and start again

[tough night]

anticipating as in I know that I will run out in 2-3 chains

[strange python]

you can't predict blindside procs

just play the game

[coarse bear]

If ur going to drop a chain you still rupture yes

[strange python]

if you cant' extend it

then pool to 240

not 200

not 190

not 178

[weary violet]

Is it best to get 2p Season 3 (breaking 4p S2) or should I keep my 4p S2 until I can get 4p S3?

[tough night]

ok, then in your case, what is "getting uncomfortable to chain" defined as?

[strange python]

i'm not playing this game with you

[mighty nexus]

2p2p is the play

[tough night]

Avih I am trying to genuinely have a discussion

[coarse bear]

Just go until you literally can’t envenom to keep it up imo unless ur about to ramp

[slate crown]

Have you ever been trying to chain, and feeling stressed about "Oh my god I'm almost out of energy but I can just barely get another envenom off but I keep droping to zero and regening JUST BARELY enough to keep the chain going"? That feeling?

Have you felt that?

[mighty nexus]

I don’t really “anticipate” it, as long as my dots are up, I just full send to no energy then pool back up and repeat

[tough night]

do you chain until you have no energy to even mutilate? what if you gotta refresh rupture and you cannot even do that

[tough night]

yea that's what I meant by anticipating it

[slate crown]

If you've felt that feeling

[finite echo]

for me its when i get my cp with like 1 second left on envenom and the global is on the edge of not refreshing

but that might not be 100% correct

[slate crown]

that's "being uncomfortable"

[finite echo]

close enough

[slate crown]

I'm trying to level with you subjectively

That's the feeling where you stop

also yes to be clear here

[violet sonnet]

is dungeon slice useful to sim?

[strange python]

yes

[slate crown]

This is about maintaining damage during our lowest damage period. The +/- to getting this part perfectly correct is very marginal

[tough night]

makes sense Lisonna but what if you also have to refresh rupture when you are being uncomfortable? do you just scrape energy to do that and THEN pool?

[thorny onyx]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[coarse bear]

Tbh deciding when to drop chains some people probably do it earlier than others, but the nature of sin right now almost all of what you do outside of ramps is not super consequential as long as you understand pooling to some extent

[mighty nexus]

Just follow the prio list lol

[slate crown]

I mean you are watching your rupture timer and your envenom timer and your energy bar all at once. You should generally have vision on all of those, and you have a relatively decent window (up to ~10 seconds) to refresh rupture

[thorn fjord]

I dont even bother with the 1s chain and send env when im good on energy

Fuck it

[coarse bear]

The damage difference between someone who goes 1 envenom longer in a chain before pooling back to 80% and someone who starts pooling earlier is probably within the margin of error

[slate crown]

So, once rupture enters pandemic, you refresh it at your next available moment, and if you are about to drop a chain because of it, you just drop it

and pool back up

[tough night]

Makes sense

[loud dome]

New to sin, how do I post a log for a review please ?

[thorn fjord]

Its a shitty play interaction lol

[tough night]

but then should you also let a chain drop to pool energy for a DM+KB?

[finite echo]

its literally the only interaction outside of burst windows, i think the spec would feel hollow for 45/60 seconds without it

[lofty junco]

https://i.imgur.com/39xvaed.png so what does the dagger do now?

[thorn fjord]

During CD's you never want that debuff to drop

At all

And you want to send as many envs as possible

[tough night]

yes to apply poison and buff KB

so when you go into CD, you always want Envenom debuff on

[slate crown]

Exactly. Like I said, when our damage looks like this, we're discussing very marginal differences in the damage output during the red zone.

[molten galleon]

Just free dps, nothing to Play around

[lofty junco]

i assume its this timestrike stat on it?

[loud dome]

Whyspyr talks about that in the video. First thing to go if you have to drop something is rupture

[mighty nexus]

Ye, timestrike copies a portion of the damage you do, or some wizardry like that

[molten galleon]

Timestrike it is ye

[tough night]

alright thanks a lot and one last very marginal thing, let's say you are 6 seconds into KB with 4 combo points and you enter timer for 2nd Shiv. Should you use a GCD to Envenom for efficiency, or is it better to Shiv sooner to maintain the Shiv debuff and Envenom with 5/6 CP?

[slate crown]

No, during DM especially you'll get an influx of energy, and your KB windows will always have a tea charge coming back off CD during them to get you some recovery. Also Whispyr simmed the differences between pooling before by dropping a chain and not doing so and it was worse. I do not remember the differential exactly

[silk merlin]

witherbatks' branch. do i useing during KB or Deathmark?

[mighty nexus]

Dm

1/1/7

[thorn fjord]

Before DM tho no?

[molten galleon]

You are able to have 100% shiv and envenom uptime for every KB and thats you Goal aswell

[slate crown]

Shiv

[strange python]

with DM

[tough night]

thanks Lisonna u a G

[slate crown]

This isn't inefficient

[distant plinth]

is this one giga eventho only max 450? XD

[strange python]

you wanna shiv at just under 8, not 6

[molten galleon]

With DM, so you have time to collect First two balls

[silk merlin]

so to make it easy its okay to macro that with DM or do i need to pop it some time before to get balls

[molten galleon]

Macro is fine

[tough night]

yea ik just got the numbers wrong while typing it

[strange python]

macro it to DM - pick up an orb in one sec, another in another sec, then another 7 second slater.

[mighty nexus]

A lot of people macro, the damage difference is negligible

[crimson zephyr]

What's a good dmg/spell distribution? Galakrons fall got me this (the laphase is big buff tho). does this look ok?

[slate crown]

You are only inefficient if you are wasting CP, and if you are at 4 cp, shivving can never push you above 6 CP so it's never wasted. The 4+ CP finisher rule is not to say that finishing on 5 is bad, in fact if you change the rules in the APL to use +5 instead of +4 it's a very small difference. So, Shiving there is actually great

[silk merlin]

ahh cool cool, you know a good wa to track it? ^^

[mighty nexus]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[tough night]

makes sense

[oak tangle]

i have not seen CT that high, which is interesting

[crimson zephyr]

back in SL I played sub and wasted shit tons of CP, tracked it wit hwarcraft log ressources.

[lofty junco]

!dagger

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1179077804189560932/image.png?ex=657878c6&is=656603c6&hm=40d354b599c48477390ae8ef0933607ebacbb8972ad82b65383541f41565aacb&=&format=webp&width=895&height=428

[crimson zephyr]

I'm a noob so my uptime might be shit of the dots etc + this might be skewed because of the buff

[slate crown]

Also, one last thing, I personally get into a situation where the time to shiv I'm actually at 6 CP but it is time to shiv. In this situation, I just shiv. It's important to get the buff up, and that 1-2 CP of waste isn't that huge. Ideally I wouldn't be in that situation, but it happens sometimes

[unique lake]

in m+ do u use Crimson tempest for ST ?

[crimson zephyr]

yeah, quite surly this is a bad example

[mighty nexus]

Yeah, that CT is pumpin 👀 I think CT is usually like 4th for me, with garrote being the majority of my damage

[thorn fjord]

In shiv we trust

[crimson zephyr]

I'm sorry, my graph is shit: infinite energy at idirikron that prob explains it no

[slate crown]

A branch aura is in my Profile (LE) in the bot command, should be up near the top of the list

[gusty mirage]

No

[tough night]

so the one extra Envenom at 4CP does not outweigh not having Shiv for a GCD, even if you apply poison?

[oak tangle]

you shouldn't be casting CT on single target anyway so the buff wouldn't matter

[gusty mirage]

4+ targets

[molten galleon]

I created a Wa to Help with shiv/tea/vanish Timing in kingsbane, maybe you wanna Check IT Out https://wago.io/8TVRJuKZ0

[slate crown]

As long as your personal envenom buff is still up, yes

[thorn fjord]

@slate crown got a bomb ass KB tracker too

[crimson zephyr]

so envenom on single target? I'm a assa noob and had a big break so I do big mistakes

[tough night]

thanks I normally just use Afenar WA and Shiv when the duration on Kingsbane turns to 7, Tea when it turns to 5 and Vanish when it becomes 2

[silk merlin]

i use that one, its awesome!!!

[mighty nexus]

Yee, LE kb tracker is absolutely goated

[oak tangle]

read through the guides, it goes over it in detail, whispyr put a good amount of effort into it

[tough night]

thanks, what KB tracker are you using btw?

[unique lake]

ty

[thorn fjord]

He made his own lol

its very very good

[slate crown]

Envenom does not itself inherently apply more poisons above other abilities (The only one that applies more poisons is Mutilate), as long as your buff is up, you're good to use other abilities/finishers

[tough night]

that's awesome, is it on wago?

[molten galleon]

Sure, ITS Not a full Pack, ITS Just some Icon popping Up when to Use those tree 🙂

[silk merlin]

found this wa for witherbarks https://wago.io/4Q2L1LNd5

[slate crown]

!wa It's in my (LE) profile below, should be one of the top 2 results

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[molten galleon]

Happy to hear

[thorn fjord]

https://wago.io/8WWlvpYa9

[slate crown]

https://wago.io/q7bHLuILp This is the one I made as well if you'd like. Whichever you prefer

[silk merlin]

its minimalistic and ez to follow

[tough night]

wait is that because Mutilate strikes twice? Envenom description says it has a 30% extra chance to apply poison

[plain onyx]

guys, I like the hybrid build more than arterial but I'm afraid if there will be a dps difference between the two builds, but If arterial is more powerful i can get used to it. any tips ?

[mighty nexus]

AP build go brrrrt

[slate crown]

Yes for Mutilate. No, envenom increases your chance to apply poisons via a buff it puts on your character for a duration based on CP. The actual envenom hit is the same as any other ability

[strange python]

try them both and play the one you enjoy

[molten galleon]

That was my goal 😄 currently building a wotherbranch Aura 😄 also Not ez 2 so 😄

[slate crown]

So if you already have envenom up, then you're fine

[oak tangle]

both builds play the same, and do similar damage, no need to worry

[tough night]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that makes a lot of sense, and is the personal buff the same duration as the debuff on target? To be honest I did not notice the personal buff

[slate crown]

Envenom doesn't put a debuff on the target

It's only a personal buff

[crimson zephyr]

wil do ty

[tough night]

oh so Envenomous Explosion is caused by the personal buff

[molten galleon]

Multilate by default is a abiltly that does dmg in two instances

[slate crown]

Correct, if you envenom while having that envenom buff, the explosion happens with 4pc

[fathom sandal]

Should an assa get a PI every 3 mins or 2?

[molten galleon]

Every 2 for each dm

[tough night]

thanks a lot for the insights, I was playing pretty well (95 avg logs on HC) but under some false assumptions of how the class works; very grateful for your explanations

[oak tangle]

95's with fundamental misunderstandings, jaysus, you must have biiiiiiig ilvl

[tough night]

478

I played sub/out in the past so quite new to sin, guild asked me to reroll

[oak tangle]

99's inc man

[spice spire]

No offense but ur guild is dumb.
Not saying you’re unwelcome, I just hate the reroll logic since all 3 are very good.
Sin just has the PI niche

[tough night]

hopefully, we are progressing volcoross tonight time for big dmg

[spice spire]

Gl homie

But yeah on dm for PI

[tough night]

it was more a suggestion than an obligation but who doesn't like big numbers

[spice spire]

Ahhh

We’ve seen some hard “you have to play sin” gamers

[tough night]

I mean the spec is quite enjoyable ngl

[molten galleon]

That boss hast no Progression, Just Pull and kill Kappa

[limber acorn]

So essentially, we start an envenom chain at 80% energy, we chain until we run out of energy and no longer can. Once we hit that point, we wait til we get to 80% energy again and start a new chain? Trying to get this priority down

[oak tangle]

i've been hit with alot of "just play outlaw" in the past, that aint happening

[spice spire]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-of-wall-street-jordan-belfort-leonardo-di-caprio-one-of-us-jonah-hill-gif-5441859

[slate crown]

Always good to explore new things.

[oak tangle]

memes

[molten galleon]

I Love the KB Playstyle aswell. Just fun to so big bursts. That even spread

[tough night]

I have played only sustained-ish classes like outlaw, fire mage, small burst like sub; but sin feels on a whole different level like the level of ungodly damage that Unholy and Demo had last patch

[slate crown]

Yup pretty much

[oak tangle]

if you like kb, then arcane will be fun for you

[crimson zephyr]

thanks folsk I think I really found my big mistake

[plush pivot]

Would it work having Sophic Dev on MH and Wafting on OH. Or just one on both? wich is best? <-- ima noob. Thx! 🙂

[oak tangle]

sim it 🙂

[limber acorn]

Thanks. And thanks @oak tangle for linking that. I guess I was just getting confused for some reason with 80% energy and also 50% energy from sanguine blades

[oak tangle]

sanguine blades is not a thought in our minds

[limber acorn]

Noted

[slate crown]

!pooling You can have sanguine in your mind if you don't have 4pc (see below), if it makes you feel better to think about it. But I honestly never did, even before 4pc, just because it would go away as a priority soon.

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[tough night]

arcane sounds fun too, but my personal goal for this season is to cockblock my Unholy DK friend from PI

[plush pivot]

Being new to the class, i was just wondering if that was even a thing to have one of each. thats all.. i'll sim ofc and see what it says. im still a noob 😛 😄

[gusty mirage]

based

[cerulean nest]

is it trolling not to play sub on Smolderon?

[gusty mirage]

yes

[slate crown]

No

[slate crown]

[oak tangle]

it's possible, but the best options can change between characters, it's not an answer we can give 🙂

[gusty mirage]

if you're progging mythic smolderon and you're not playing sub

you're trolling

[plush pivot]

@oak tangle ty sir 🙂

[spice surge]

Sub certainly does more, but assa is still fine really

[tough night]

i'm gonna play sub for smolderon

[manic quartz]

why? whats the benefit of sub on that fight?

[hexed willow]

What if you’re progging heroic with 30 people

[tough night]

how tf do you even align your cds on sin?

[hexed willow]

!smolderon

[cerulean nest]

I am, can't tell if sarcasm lol. just a lot more sub logs and the timings seem to line up

[gusty mirage]

you have CDs for every single intermission

[tough night]

KB at pull then DM+KB in 1st intermission and afterwards what

[green apex]

Then youre probably dieing to fire tornados like my guild ayyyy

[tough night]

but what if you BL 2nd intermission

[limber acorn]

Awesome, thanks Lisonna. Eventually you will run out of energy and have to pool back up to 80% right? Like, I shouldn't feel bad if it drops, we're just trying to play most efficently? Or are we expected to be able to chain without dropping.

[spice surge]

You BL third

[hexed willow]

1st send, 2nd intermission, hold 3rd for intermission, 4th send

[oak tangle]

you're waiting 30s so after second intermission you've lost a kb cast

[gusty mirage]

why would it be sarcasm

[hexed willow]

Basically tons of people being stupid. We finally got it down but now people are dying to giant fire tornados

[gusty mirage]

if you're refusing to play sub on mythic smolderon you're actually inting

on heroic it doesn't really matter

because you have way more than enough damage

[spice spire]

Smolderon dn pal

[cerulean nest]

welp time to relearn sub then

[blazing jewel]

Oxi you’ve convinced me to play outlaw for next smold reclear

[spice surge]

I mean its definitely not that bad

[slate crown]

Yeah it's just part of the play. You will lose chains. It's expected. Ideally you won't but like, you can't magically grant yourself extra tea charges out of the ether, so you do your best and work on dropping them as little as possible, but it will happen

[tough night]

wait if you send 1st, 2nd is not up for intermission right?

[spice surge]

Highest sub log is 300k, highest assa log without PI is 260k

[gusty mirage]

after what Stealthi told me about your gameplay as sub, I don't blame you

[blazing jewel]

????

[gusty mirage]

[blazing jewel]

I nearly did 300k buddy

[strange python]

[manic quartz]

time to relearn sub i guess

[gusty mirage]

how were those early pulls bucko @blazing jewel

[blazing jewel]

Bad

[green apex]

Sub is a lot like Sin this season - tonnes of set-up before you release your inner demon

[gusty mirage]

same

[spice surge]

Its better to play sin well than to play sub poorly

[oak tangle]

isn't it that sub gets 2 sectecs in short succession or sometihng?

[spice surge]

But playing sub well is obviously the best case

[green apex]

Execute buttons in right order = huge dam
Do it wrong = small dam very sad

[gusty mirage]

while true, if you're progging mythic smolderon right now you're probably beyond the scope of "play what you enjoy/play well" kinda thing

[tough night]

sub is not that hard, it looks menacing but it becomes muscle memory fast

outlaw is stressing to play in prog until you get very used to its patterns

and even then you have to play procs

[oak tangle]

i haven't even looked at the new talents and how to paly it, who knows maybe im a dust enjoyer

[gusty mirage]

after being stuck in shadowdust hell

[blazing jewel]

Dust on patchwork fights is fun

[gusty mirage]

it's honestly not even that bad

[manic quartz]

Throwing back to back finishers doesnt fit to my brain

[gusty mirage]

I still hate it

[blazing jewel]

But when you need to learn different timers for every boss that’s not great

[oak tangle]

isn't it kinda just mage's nightfae CDR?

[spice spire]

Scana is a filthy sub OTP

[blazing jewel]

[cerulean nest]

how bad is trying to regear to sub for the fight after investing in sin so far?