So just to be clear. In 10.2 patch indiscriminate carnage will apply rupture and garrote to 10 targets instead of 8 and will now be a passive ability?
#assassination
potent lintel
balmy condor
So just to be clear. In 10.2 patch indiscriminate carnage will apply rupture and...
To 2 additional targets for 10 seconds after breaking stealth
potent lintel
So I dont get it. IT doesnt apply to 8 adds anymore?
balmy condor
2 is not 8
potent lintel
WTH why are they changing it?
balmy condor
Because current IC is a bandaid for our aoe and crazy strong
And the rework is adding more ways to aoe
So IC is nerfed to bring it to where it should be
potent lintel
Assasin rogues were already weak on AOE even before IC
so I dont know what the deal is
balmy condor
I literally just explained the deal
The rework added a ton of aoe
Ic is too strong
void mesa
Instead of having nothing but CT + IC for aoe, we now have other things
balmy condor
Ic is nerfed to compensate and make it not overbearing
void mesa
So the invidivual tools need to be weaker
potent lintel
the other AOE I see is causatic splatter. DOnt think that would compensate for the nerfed IC tbh
balmy condor
You dont see sudden demise
And you don’t see how easy it is to take shadow dance
And you don’t see sanguine blades?
And you don’t see the crimson tempest rework
Or how you can take kingsbane and dragon tempered with caustic?
thorn fjord
Whispyrs a sleepy man
balmy condor
Yeah I’m starting to realize that
Having to look at a reworked tree or any of the pins in #tww-assassination is much too difficult
Rather just be confused and complain why ic nerf
proven jasper
potent lintel
realistically in current state, without IC how many garrote can you quickly manually apply within the stealth window?
grim jay
Yeah I’m starting to realize that
Maybe you should do a reading and reading comprehension guide, but that would require people to do some basic reading aswell
thorn fjord
The fourth one is just gonna be a lame garrote
blazing jacinth
Sin is cool in M+ but I think sub is easier with a higher ceiling. I already play aff lock in keys, another dot spec in there would be a bit too much lol
royal lantern
this is the last channel where you have to say "sub does more dmg for way way less effort in m+" 
grim jay
on here its the only channel aswell tho
or well one of 2 if you count ptr assassination
blazing jacinth
If I had to guess though I think a lot of people are swapping off sub next tier. Outlaw seems like it’ll be pretty strong and like whispyr was saying sin has a lot more aoe in its kit now so it’ll be fun to explore
Crackshot seems like it’ll be pretty busted if you can get lucky with crits
runic hinge
Yeah but then you’re playing outlaw 
strange python
I mean currently, not in PTR.
strange python
im assuming they wont do anything about it in the current patch right
gilded oasis
exsang still broken we dont use
strange python
bleh
blazing jacinth
I didn’t like exsang so no skin off my teeth👀
frigid pilot
how much of a dps loss is it if u send DM on cd no matter what instead of trying to check killtimes and delay the final DM
void mesa
...what?
frigid pilot
kinda aids that specs that have high burst low sustain suffer greatly from weird killtimes especially if they are right before an extra deathmark would come back
blazing jacinth
how much of a dps loss is it if u send DM on cd no matter what instead of trying...
Whispyr made a YouTube video about this. I can’t explain it but I would give it a watch
spice spire
Why freeball a 5m potion when you kill the boss at 5:30
When you can just hold your dm for it
And get more value
And if you’re unsure about your kill time? Just send it on CD (where appropriate, like, don’t disobey your raid lead for like echoes or something)
frigid pilot
fair
spice spire
That’s maximizing damage for parses. If you’re trying to hard parse a boss, cd planning becomes very very important.
If you’re progging, maximizing your damage is important, but being inefficient for the sake of a kill is often a result people have.
Certain bosses just have a timer, and it’s easy. Others? Gotta have an add on, or plan ahead based on performance (if your guild is consistent)
blazing jacinth
And if you’re getting close to the 35% point on a boss it’s not a bad idea to hold for the extra 30% dmg. Execute is really the only thing I can think of to hold something for
void mesa
Execute, pots, lust that isnt on pull and huh... if your evokers are delaying Breath of Eons currently?
lament aurora
That’s maximizing damage for parses. If you’re trying to hard parse a boss, cd p...
i definitely just send my shit on cd
sometimes I prepot like 10 seconds before we even pull
spice spire
Outlaw OTP speaking 
lament aurora
popeyes biscuit OTP talking 
spice spire
Mad?
plucky canopy
quick question... are ebon might logs buggt for assa?
gilded oasis
@spice spire happy almost Friday
spice spire
You too homie
lament aurora
quick question... are ebon might logs buggt for assa?
shouldn't be no
gilded oasis
my sammich has 2 kinds of onions im chillin
plucky canopy
i feel like every pull i get some ebon might uptime, my dmg in logs seems fucked, can be coincidence, but yea
runic hinge
my sammich has 2 kinds of onions im chillin
I’ve been obsessed with caramelized onions this week. Dunno why
gilded oasis
omg carmalized onions are bomb
DOT COM
I have some pickled red onions and crispy onion straws
wild lion
:)
storm belfry
You too homie
signal pumice
Hey all I am really struggling with the current iteration of sin on rashok clearly we are on a razor thin margin for dps, is anyone able to help review my logs?
earnest remnant
@gaunt moat we did some fast today
lament aurora
<@211181348361076736> we did some fast today
its kinda crazy how you guys keep beating your old times
like the max verstappen of speed raiding
earnest remnant
we can go faster
gilded oasis
gonna break the speed of speed
spice spire
Slow Zaqali today eh?
spice spire
I’m surprised you didn’t wipe and try again
earnest remnant
we never do that
we just kill
if it goes well, then super
if not then, ehh go again next week
spice spire
Listen
earnest remnant
we dont wanna stay there all night
spice spire
I watched push doing the speed run of the tarragrue
Where they spent like an hour getting the perfect powers
earnest remnant
yeah that one was something else
spice spire
Idk what colour wants
lament aurora
when I think colour I think speed
silk merlin
any chance someone can look at my logs from tonight and tell me what i do wrong? the damage is really low
spice spire
Start with WoW analyzer! It’s set up for us! It should find a bit of basic mistakes
If you aren’t seeing what you need just post and I’ll do it
silk merlin
Start with WoW analyzer! It’s set up for us! It should find a bit of basic mista...
allright, ill have a look there and come back to you, thanks in advance!
spice spire
!logs also for quick 😛
prisma monolithBOT
Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage
Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/
silk merlin
!logs
prisma monolithBOT
Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage
Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/
silk merlin
!logs also for quick 😛
i DM'ed you :))
rain mortar
Anyone with Sark experience able to look at these logs and tell me what you think we need to change for some more boss damage? Feels like we are low. One of my thoughts was make a rogue go sin but idk https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Gx1V7g26p9mBvncN#type=damage-done&boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=1&options=256&target=36
nimble tartan
shouldnt need any more if everyone plays clean it will be fine
no need to force a spec swap
rain mortar
Yeah I thought that - we just have to play perfect which has been eluding us haha
woeful meteor
Anyone with Sark experience able to look at these logs and tell me what you thin...
powder on prog is troll
reef mulch
!crafted
keen spruce
Anyone with Sark experience able to look at these logs and tell me what you thin...
boss health at phases seems to be on pace
both of your sub rogues are running black powder to pad on adds in p3 though
p2*
which is quite silly if boss health is your main concern
but if you're having trouble killing adds on a good timer in p2 ig it's not that big of a deal
drifting cloud
theyre both bottom on dmg while not really going super ham on p2 big adds, its not great
keen spruce
yeah i mean they should jsut spec out of BP and focus on ST on the boss
you also lost a bit of damage on your best pull
cuz you warrior stepped on a puddle
and got rez'd right before the immune black hole
so he got the black hole instead of your rogue or pala that was supposed to solo it
and died again
then go rezzed right before you guys went downstairs the ssecond time
so he didn't have enough stacks
and died when everyone went down
then losing you UH right when you guys come up
is so much damage getting flushed
and you can all soak this black hole
when you come back upstairs at the very end of the fight
like you do at the start of p3
since no one will have any stacks and you get to save a mage for the final burn
tbh that pull was super clean until p3
if you guys just keep a few more people alive and get kicks/cc on the adds
at the very end
it dies on any random pull
woeful wagon
if i want some help with logs do i just post here?
keen spruce
I'd go to wowanalyzer first, it has great support for assas
then if you have any othe questions you can drop it in here yeah
hollow vessel
Make those two go full ST if you arent having adds problems. They will help using Shadow Technique anyways
manic coral
is going sporecloak instead of toxified armor patch omegatroll for sark or
hollow vessel
Well, you should be fine with the armor patch, but if you are dying too often you should change it
Well timed potions, feints, healthstone should be more than enough to survive
blazing jacinth
I swapped from sub to Sin for M sark. Feels better in p2 having the sin cleave between big add and sark. Also a lot more dmg to sark imo. Like I played sub all tier and just swapped to Sin for prog and it was a noticeable difference. Had to craft/recraft for stat difference but yea. I really like Sin on this fight for prog. Plus your cds line up as u come into P2/3 so u also get a haste buff when u pop cds which is cool. And your final DM falls in execute so it’s like all your DM windows have some sort of buff to it
fair pier
Hey, first time chatter! Just wanted to say, when I go to the FAQ and clicked on talents (which, I foolishly learned is just a few scrolls upward), it opened about 40 discord tabs on my browser at once.
Not sure if bug on my end or the link itself. Just figured I'd make sure I wasn't the only one.
willow kite
Question regarding Deathmark; is duration of bleeds/poisons when DM is cast important, or is it just important to have uptime on them?
ie is there a difference to doing imp garrote -> DM, over doing already having an imp garrote up (but close to pandemic) -> DM -> vanish, imp garrote
if we're looking purely at damage duplicated from DM
basically, does it snapshot in anyway - or is it just a flat poison/bleed damage increase during DM duration
earnest remnant
its all dynamic
glossy jewel
can anyone tell me if the info that haste doesnt affect rogue GCD (https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Cooldown) is still correct?
woeful meteor
it is
slow needle
can anyone tell me if the info that haste doesnt affect rogue GCD (https://wowpe...
Yes, Outlaw in AR is an exception where the gcd is shortened to 0.8s.
For the duration of AR.
glossy jewel
tyvm
brazen reef
guys could i get some trinket advice. I have Beacon, Chromatic Essence and Harlans loaded dice. Dungeon slice Sims always put dice and essence ahead, but in keys i am seeing 6-7% dmg from Beacon. I am not really sure if i can trust the sims to be right. Single target is is suggesting beacon and dice
undone flame
Can shadowmelt be usefull in raids?
For other then resets
gusty mirage
Can shadowmelt be usefull in raids?
For other then resets
for assassination, no. Doesn't give you any stealth benefits
gusty mirage
guys could i get some trinket advice. I have Beacon, Chromatic Essence and Harla...
Beacon is really nice if you need on-demand damage (last boss Vortex), or if you have a boss that takes bonus damage (Harlan in FH, last boss in Neltharus). However, stat trinkets tend to win in aoe situations because you're always getting those stats, ya know?
but realistically, it's a feel thing on your end. If you're happy with beacon, and you're happy with big beacon crits then stick with using it
indigo epoch
I wish blizzard would put in a disconnect % stat for M+ stats. i wanna know who all the shitheads are who dc mid run.
neon kindle
@gusty mirage yoooooo
been a while
quick question, is fuu fine with people DMing him?
brazen reef
but realistically, it's a feel thing on your end. If you're happy with beacon, a...
Thanks for that. I personally don't like Beacon because of the cast time. I really love the assa playstyle, so I would much rather be playing my class than pressing cast time trinkets. I will re-run a FH or something and see how i go for dmg without it
fresh kelp
Anyone got a good nameplate profile to recommend? Plater or another add on entirely
solid mica
how do you sim weapon runes/phials at once?
runic hinge
Cev’s is goated
clear plover
sorry to ask this, I still don't get it that much, should I hold spepsis always for deathmark or just hold vanish? and use it as I get the CD
void mesa
Just send sepsis on CD 99% of the time
Vanish is held to lineup with DM. Some of your sepsis (like the 2nd one) will line up with the start of your 2nd DM and you sort of top it off with the vanish one
solid mica
does anyone actually use static empowerment phial?
gaunt moat
Yes. When hitting dummy to get highest Kingsbane 
blazing jacinth
does anyone actually use static empowerment phial?
Na, use the crit one
solid mica
yea thats what i was using but the sim i ran had that like 1k over but looked like simbait
blazing jacinth
Oh static will always sim higher. But there’s no fight that’ll allow u to stand still
Plus strafing has been proven to increase dps
fringe prairie
Hi, my guild has some problem for the anti healing for the mobs in P3 on sark MM (we don't have any source of anti healing) if I should remove amp or deadly poison for wound poison, which one should I remove?
I know that it's a huge loss of dps 😦
earnest remnant
it would be deadly
but you really shouldnt lol
adds should never be an issue if you just bring them in under the boss
fringe prairie
Yeah, I know but we have some problem with them, so we would like to practice a bit more P3 and later we will improve without my anti healing
drifting cloud
dh should spec it
wound is terrible
unless your comp is prot warr, veng and you also dont have ww, not sure whats even left
but equipping it as assa you might aswell go sub
amber blaze
does Nightstalker works under the effect of Shadow Dance ?
spice surge
Yes
gusty mirage
quick question, is fuu fine with people DMing him?
Yea should be fine. Fuu’s a friendly dude 
keen spruce
just don't send him weird shit 
clever sapphire
just don't send him weird shit <:Sus_susss:846553219480158208>
noted
willow kite
What phial would you guys use for prog? Chaotic?
spice spire
Tepid vers
spice spire
The duality of man
plucky canopy
Is there a better way besides holding sepsis for every dm on sarka mythic?
I always hold it for the come up moment to pair with the haste Buff and dm and use vanish to hold IG even longer.
But feels weird to loose about 2 cast on the whole fight
lament aurora
corrupting rage > vers
limber lion
Is there a better way besides holding sepsis for every dm on sarka mythic?
I alw...
Use it after DM with the 4p buff in the beginning
Later on do the same
Then after that start playing it normally
keen spruce
What phial would you guys use for prog? Chaotic?
if you don't trust your healers just run tepid vers. rage is fine though, it really doesn't do that much dmg 
and be alchemist
spice spire
I trust no one
thorn fjord
I trust no one
Trust in God, child.
keen brook
Use it after DM with the 4p buff in the beginning
Can you expand on this? I thought it was always sepsis and then DM
neon kindle
Yea should be fine. Fuu’s a friendly dude <a:catyes:857619951577858078>
Gracias
plucky canopy
Later on do the same
So normal opener, than delay for 2. DM with haste buff and than just on cd?
I go down one extra time to bait second meteor on me to cloak that, and we still go down a third time in p3 with the group stack on one node.
atm I use it on pull, 2.10ish, 4.20ish and 7.00ish, so I miss 2 casts in a 7.30min fight
limber lion
Can you expand on this? I thought it was always sepsis and then DM
Boss transitions before you get to use your cds again. The reason you do it the other way is because it assumes you hit the boss 5 mins straight without breaks. Also on Sark there's no place for vanish at all, so instead you use Vanish to reapply imp gar and sepsis with the increased nature damage later
You do not miss casts because you're stuck in a long intermission anyways.
plucky canopy
Oooh
limber lion
Orherwise you would be sitting on cds for a long while which is not great
limber lion
So you change the concept from "as many casts as possible" to "as much dps as possible per ability"
plucky canopy
So basically "swap" vanish and sepsis?
limber lion
Yeah gotta keep in mind with bosses that have intermissions or damage reduction phases or whatever
Yep
plucky canopy
From how it used it
Sometimes I feel to stupid for that game 🤷♂️😂
Such an easy dps increase if u just think about it
Do it use it that way on pull, 2min and 4mins? And after that use it on cd?
limber lion
Yeah it's simple to just follow one rotation for everything
Yeh something like that. Once you play it a few times you'll get a hang of the cds
plucky canopy
I will try it next week, thanks for opening my eyes 🙏
I mean I stoll got a 85 this week finally, but that could push that number a bit higher 😂
thorn fjord
parsing is hard
https://wowanalyzer.com/report/LaYTvPxwK3rQA6Rt/63-Mythic+Magmorax+-+Kill+(5:22)/Backdoorpush/standard think i did well with uptime and still parsed a green lol
spice spire
5:22 eh?
thorn fjord
yeah its rough lol
spice spire
What if you pushed that pesky little vanish/dm back to 5:00 to get that second pot
Little bit of a silly mix up
timid dagger
Hey quick question:
Is there a way to make garrote glow on action bar when improved garrote is active, or say when sepsis procs happens?
limber lion
Quite a few small things that you can improve on, nothing critical yeh
thorn fjord
@timid dagger whispyrs WA does that
limber lion
Hey quick question:
Is there a way to make garrote glow on action bar when impr...
No. Use a weakaura for that
spice spire
Hey quick question:
Is there a way to make garrote glow on action bar when impr...
An easy plug and play was done by a regular if that helps
timid dagger
Thanks fellas!
spice spire
You can also yoink and add to your current or pull from luxthos 
timid dagger
Awesome!
rain mortar
You can also yoink and add to your current or pull from luxthos <a:SoCute:102116...
The luxthos was has a green dot when it’s empowered I believe but could be wrong in that
spice surge
Ye it does, many a people in here have yoinked that
(me included)
Why write many code when few copypaste do the trick
spice spire
Why write many code when few copypaste do the trick
Amen brother
timid dagger
Hey there, im wondering if there is a way to always have rupture be the closest of the two to health frame?
limber lion
Sure is
There's a script for it at least in wago that you can use and mod
My plater has it you can yoink it from there
undone flame
How good is night elf for rogue or woude i be better off picking another race im not 100% sure how shadowmelt works with rogue
balmy condor
its only real use is in mythic+ for adds
otherwise it's kinda whatever
pick whatever race you think looks the best
brazen reef
Dark Iron dwarf is prob best for M+
at least that is what it seems by peoples choices, but i agree. I like the look of undead, so i play it
sweet dawn
Goblin 🔛 🔝
light warren
why does beacon sim so poorly? this is dungeon slice
balmy condor
Cause you got better trinkets I guess
light warren
437 dice and 441 mirror?
balmy condor
What ilvl is the beacon
light warren
441
balmy condor
Yeah seems reasonable
balmy condor
I mean it ain’t even the buffs
spice spire
For dice?
spice spire
I mean yeah 
balmy condor
Endboss ilvl loot
And then we got the buff
And then they expanded mythic track
So just even without our buff
The ilvl power difference got obliterated
spice spire
But now there’s no point in it unless I kill mythic sark because 441 dice better. (So Is oce nelth and bomb dispensy)
balmy condor
So you had a trinket that’s like 10 ilvl higher than everything else
And it used to be 15 ilvl higher
At equal ilvl beacon just kinda gets wrecked
spice spire
And even mythic is beaten by everything else mythic that’s good trinket
balmy condor
Ye
light warren
HEY guys where can i find a good aoe rotation guide? \
Aoe is keep up your crimsom tempest. after IC keep couple garrotes and ruptures up for energy and then spam fan and envenom
vivid seal
ty sir
light warren
I usually always save a tea for shiv time
vivid seal
its always amplfying and deadly poison correct?
light warren
yea i forget the names but yea
i usually also ask the tank about slow poison
its good to have on like underrot for example after first boss to help with spiders. Or brackenhide so they wander away slower and the ones that chase you etc...
there is also an opener ive seen from Zerocool where he pops ic garrote rupture Deathmark Tea ER Crimson temp and then goes into fan envenom spam
vivid seal
hmm
light warren
pop trinks after Crimson but depends on what u have
vivid seal
do i crimson tempest on 2-3 targets ?
light warren
3+ targets
oh wait
yes 2
was thinking fan
2+ targets for crimson
3+ targets for fan
its just another dot, you still use envenom
lasts 18 seconds
vivid seal
kk
light warren
what key lvl u doing?
vivid seal
this is just an alt so like 18-22's
clever niche
Congrats on 1k Whispyr
balmy condor
Congrats on 1k Whispyr
thanks!
it's actually 1000 on the dot
that's wild
bro's keeping track
clever niche
Yeah it was 999 when I hit the sub button and clicked refresh to see the magic number
clever niche
Great rng roll for sure
spice spire
(They’re in your walls)
noble ocean
so in the St raid built do we ever use exenguinate? or is it just there for pathing?
limber lion
No
rotund oak
it's actually 1000 on the dot
ur videos are actually very educational
compared to others who think that they help^^
amber blaze
Aoe is keep up your crimsom tempest. after IC keep couple garrotes and ruptures ...
do you spam CT in AoE ?
Or just keep the dot up
You want to keep the envenom buff no ?
light warren
I mean you CAN spam Ct in aoe but you should use envenom
amber blaze
ok nice ty
light warren
i think there tbh if u maintain envenom buff there isnt too much a difference depending on pack size
but usually there is a prio target so envenom is good for that
amber blaze
in aoe, playing ER is better than going down the Dhadow dance path ?
light warren
yes, re stealths dont matter
amber blaze
I find shadow dance really usefull to reapply some garrots when Ic or usual stealth is not ready
amber blaze
perfection
vestal wren
it's actually 1000 on the dot
contrats on 1k
balmy condor
ty
vestal wren
tell me you like memes without telling me you like memes
keen spruce
i just like frogs
forest nacelle
cobalt hemlock
glacial shuttle
Wtf is this 
fathom niche
Hello, I wanted to prepare my Twink Rogue for the next patch, as I have always enjoyed playing assa in the past.
Regarding Embellished Items I wanted to ask how big is the difference between Thorn Boots and Slimy Boots, because as far as I'm informed Slimy is not bad for the other specs
slow needle
Hello, I wanted to prepare my Twink Rogue for the next patch, as I have always e...
No idea about embellished for next patch yet. They did just nerf them all on ptr.
fathom niche
Na its just for now
slow needle
If you want to know for this patch you can just sim it and get exact numbers for your character.
For me it was close enough I couldn't be bothered recrafting.
willow kite
I get a visual bug where my OH isn't visible when sheathed all the time - anyone know the reason?
agile wedge
guys i tried to read through the faq, but i didnt found which poisons to use? as far as i can see i can use 3 as assa
slow needle
guys i tried to read through the faq, but i didnt found which poisons to use? as...
At the top.
gusty oak
hello noob.. is it toxic thorn footwraps is a must for raid?
agile wedge
if you want to do max dmg i guess it is. if you dont care, dont care 😛
another thing from my side: do i every use poisoned dagger? or can i move it out of my bars?
void mesa
Its only when out of melee range AND capping on energy. Should happen about once per 50 boss pulls on Zskarn xd
agile wedge
okay cu talent 😄
thanks
ah it is the aquivalent to my shuriken as sub?
like a range attack, got it
agile wedge
when i play sepsis build on st i never use vanish? like to optimize dps?
on sub i use it, thats why i ask
keen spruce
on fights with no intermission and normal prog kill times like rashok ~6m
you save vanish for your 2minute deathmark
to extend your improved garrote
that you get from your 3rd sepsis
on fights like sark where you're going to have intermissions
you use vanish to extend your improved garrote after you opener
agile wedge
okay need to have a deeper look here i guess. thanks
spice surge
The FAQ has an entire section about it too
But ye it depends on the fight lengths and stuff
agile wedge
i was looking at wcl
and some good logs didnt use it or may i have overseen
thats why i asked
ah due to its only one use on short killtime, it was only cast once after 2min deathmark, as shmeeps said
i just oversaw
keen spruce
slate crown
void mesa
void mesa
3k dps
almost 40% up xd
gusty mirage
and dw I have a stinkier parse
I side stepped the safety beam
for no reason
I just strafed for no reason at all
and died
void mesa
oxi pls XD
gusty mirage
"Why did you die?"
void mesa
gusty mirage
"Because I'm a fucking idiot"
"Fair enough"
wanna know what my reward was?
A sark cloak
void mesa
Its so great when people would rather say "im dumb" then "well there was this thing and I got unlucky and I had a proc and its someone elses fault"
wait, this aint how karma works now 
gusty mirage
everyone's allowed one super stupid moment per tier
that was mine
and it came 1 month after prog was over
I earned it
keen spruce
void mesa
https://www.twitch.tv/shmeeps_phd/clip/NurturingInterestingStarlingANELE-MPtD3at...
this gave me a good chuckle
I was like, trying to predict what you'd fuck up
Never did I expect you to just go off like that
fickle cargo
Hi Guys, I am wondering if the improved wound poison stacks shares with other rogues? Can we build 5 stacks together or how does it work with more rogues in a raid? It is for P3 Sarkareth...
blazing jewel
If you are playing wound poison as sin rogue for sark your raid needs a divine intervention from a mighty god
clever sapphire
keen spruce
Hi Guys, I am wondering if the improved wound poison stacks shares with other ro...
what hellish landscape do you raid in
that they're considering multiple rogues go wound poison
clever sapphire
If my raid ever tells me to go wound, i tell them that my trial is over
void mesa
Just tell them they failed your trial, then leave raid and vanish out
lament aurora
forest nacelle
whats wound poison, i don't think i got that on my bar. 
or atleast that what i would tell my raid leader if he decides to do that.
lapis oriole
Weird question but is there a reason Garrote keeps casting for the entire duration of improved garrote?
I can't tell if I'm missing something or if this is just a weird bug
gusty mirage
I'm not sure what you mean by keeps casting for the entire duration
lapis oriole
I pop garrote from stealth, and then every gcd it'll cast garrote until I either run out of energy or the duration of the buff ends so that it has a cd again
Like hands off the keyboard, it's just getting inputs
gusty mirage
I'm not sure I've ever seen that before 
do you have any macros or is some kind of malfunction with the software (icue, razer synapse, etc). Sometimes my wonderful razer synapse bugs my keyboard and my character keeps turning in circles
also we need to charge razer, corsair, and logitech with warcrimes for their shitty mouse/keyboard software
slow needle
also we need to charge razer, corsair, and logitech with warcrimes for their shi...
The G HUB thing for logitech isn't that bad? Either that or I'm inured to it.
gusty mirage
g hub is better than the other 2
slow needle
Its pretty simple to rebind the buttons and change DPI which is what I care about.
gusty mirage
but that's like being morally greater than a cold blooded murderer ya know
slow needle
Turn off all the lights for better battery life.
lapis oriole
I'm gonna find a target dummy and run some tests, It's really weird because garrote is on 1 in stealth and then on 2 out of stealth-
gusty mirage
not exactly the greatest achievement in the world
lapis oriole
Disabled all addons, I'm gonna restart the game rq and start toggling some talents
gusty mirage
razer synapse is the biggest piece of shit I've ever used
slow needle
not exactly the greatest achievement in the world
With some of the intrusive thoughts I get... kinda is.
gusty mirage
slow needle
Not used synapse in a looong time so I barely remember it.
gusty mirage
Disabled all addons, I'm gonna restart the game rq and start toggling some talen...
yeah all I can think of if you don't use any macros, is some kinda weird input bug
lapis oriole
I do have razer products but I don't really use the software though- And this doesn't happen with any other ability or on any other class lol
gusty mirage
Not used synapse in a looong time so I barely remember it.
I'm jealous of you
slow needle
I got sick of my death adders dying.
lapis oriole
I'm thinking weird input bug because if I'm away from a target it'll just keep spamming the input sounds
gusty mirage
I'm pretty sure it was coded by a 3 year old on one of those fake plastic playskool laptops
slow needle
Wasn't there someone who had something similar ages ago and we all said it was nothing but it was a bugged accessibility feature?
gusty mirage
I'm thinking weird input bug because if I'm away from a target it'll just keep s...
yeah sometimes I get this sick bug in poe where I go to pull up the overlay map it just starts infinitely scrolling
thanks razer!
gusty mirage
that could also be a thing, but if it doesn't happen with other classes/specs
slow needle
I search for "accessibility"
gusty mirage
it's uh
lapis oriole
Bro
gusty mirage
definitely weird
lapis oriole
I think it is the hold to cast thing
slow needle
And it gives me matches to access.
slow needle
I think it is the hold to cast thing
Yeah I think this was it.
slow needle
I just remember the dude getting really annoyed because we were all saying it was likely user error.
lapis oriole
now that's a niche bug
slow needle
Since it was just added and was bugged.
lapis oriole
LOL
slow needle
Until they showed a video.
lapis oriole
I would feel like I was going insane if we didn't figure it out
lapis oriole
I did like 3 timewalking dungeons like this and I'm just like "What the fuck is going on"
gusty mirage
probably coded by the same guy who made razer synapse
karmic bane
how much does restealthing matter for this spec
slow needle
how much does restealthing matter for this spec
gusty mirage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoZDPFk_Zog
HIYA!
slow needle
If you cba watching. @ Whispyr and we will pray for you.
slow needle
That video will explain it all in detail for you.
karmic bane
but sure I'll sit through a 30 mins video
slow needle
If you haven't played rogue in your life.
There are bigger things to focus on than restealths.
But the TL:DW version is don't worry.
gusty mirage
but sure I'll sit through a 30 mins video
you'll get the gist of it well before 30 minutes hopefully
slow needle
There are bigger things to focus on than restealths.
gusty mirage
otherwise I'll have to fly to california and smack whispyr for you
karmic bane
I played it for like 5 mins and hated the resteahling but that was in SL
I played it in Mists didnt like having to restleath every pack
gusty mirage
tldr of that video: it's not as impactful as you think it is
karmic bane
taht is why I'm asking
gusty mirage
and having bleeds rolling from mobs in the previous pack is actually pretty good
but if your tank chains like shit
it'll be a dps loss
proven jasper
People have this conception that it’s completely necessary when its not at all
gusty mirage
like if they chain with like 1-2 mobs left at 7% health
you're going to scream, either internally or externally
proven jasper
and yeah if ur tank is chaining properly its fine
slate crown
Also, especially in 10.2 as we can much more easily take dance, you have plenty of ways to get stealth effects back when you need it. Restealths are nice but not essential for your overall damage
(But the arguments are not hinging on 10.2 changes)
karmic bane
I'm still watching the video but if I was playing rogue at the high end which is most likely the case, in order to min max you would restealth no?
I'm sure this video will answer
slow needle
Yes.
Stealth is a core part of the class.
Every spec you want to use it in some way.
But not being able to restealth is not as impactful as many people would expect for Sin specifically.
gusty mirage
If you can nab a restealth while transitioning from pack to pack, do it. If your tank's chaining properly just go in and blast up some ruptures and CT
frozen lagoon
sorry to bother. But for races does dwarf just win hands down?
gusty mirage
sorry to bother. But for races does dwarf just win hands down?
dwar, taurent, and velf are the go-tos
but dwarf is just stronger because stoneskin
by default
slow needle
sorry to bother. But for races does dwarf just win hands down?
Depends on the metric you're measuring the race by but dwarf is very good yes.
Ah, yeah. What Oxi said.
frozen lagoon
why does NELF come up as best all the time?
gusty mirage
you get top 3 dps for race + the most broken racial in the game
frozen lagoon
shadowmeld that important?
frozen lagoon
what if I intend on doing both pvp and pve
slow needle
I'm still watching the video but if I was playing rogue at the high end which is...
Keep in mind that each spec cares about restealthing by a different amount as well.
frozen lagoon
losing stoneskin that big of deal?
grim jay
If you cba watching. @ Whispyr and we will pray for you.
oh brother that requires a huge prayer. he wasnt in for it at all today
gusty mirage
in high keys it kinda matters
but unless you're pushing giga IO it's not that big of a deal
frozen lagoon
I am typically maxing out at 3k io
gusty mirage
yeah then you'll be fine missing out on stoneskin
karmic bane
Keep in mind that each spec cares about restealthing by a different amount as we...
lets say I would only play subrogue
what would be the dps loss if I never stealthed once
slow needle
Ngl.
karmic bane
after the intial sealth
grim jay
just play outlaw
gusty mirage
what would be the dps loss if I never stealthed once
not even noticeable tbh
karmic bane
Maybe not the class?
this is the argument I am proving
gusty mirage
all your big "stealth" damage comes from shadow dance anyway
slow needle
just play outlaw
Arguably Outlaw cares more about stealth in M+ this coming season than any other class.
karmic bane
someone said stealth wasnt' that important on rogue
slow needle
Because it preserves AR.
karmic bane
so I can here to clarify
gusty mirage
yeah it's not giga important
obviously for min-maxing damage, you'd want to restealth but it doesn't brick your damage if you can't
karmic bane
sure but you would do it before every pull is my point
gusty mirage
in keys, I would not
karmic bane
how come?:
gusty mirage
slows down the group too much to be worth it
grim jay
Arguably Outlaw cares more about stealth in M+ this coming season than any other...
I dont think it will be giga important if you cant restealth for 1 sec betweens packs
slow needle
slows down the group too much to be worth it
Well yeah you don't stealth and natty run between packs.
grim jay
it just stops duration no?
karmic bane
slows down the group too much to be worth it
why would it slow down the group
slow needle
Mount up and hit stealth just before combat starts.
gusty mirage
because you'd have to drop combat, meaning everything is dead, before the next pull starts, and often times when tanks are chaining packs you get put in combat by one of those new mobs targeting you with a cast for example
slow needle
it just stops duration no?
Yeah but its cd keeps ticking. So if you are close to the next pack and you would lose ~5s normally or what ever since your group isn't gonna mount you just slam it and stealth after.
gusty mirage
like they 100% should let you restealth before a boss unless they're pulling the trash onto the boss
but besides bosses, it's usually not worth it time-wise
karmic bane
I mean if I never have to stealth in between packs I would play rogue so if you guys are saying I can do that I'll learn the spec
that's all
gusty mirage
you'd benefit more playing sub rogue then, because that initial shadowstrike is kinda whatever tbh
it's usually used to just get slice and dice rolling, but you can just hardcast that
and in aoe it's 2 globals, shuriken storm -> snd
then you go through the aoe rotation
karmic bane
so in this vidoe that you guys linked says 3 percent is how much ass would lose what would outlaw's number be>
slate crown
It's far less contentous for non-Sin specs so there's way less focus on it, so yeah I don't think anyone's looked into it
karmic bane
Surprising
I was asking each spec how important it was because I wanted to play a spec where I don't have to stealth between packs and it all lead me to come to ask
makes sense ass losses the most
proven jasper
It’s realistically most important on sin for the iron wire/garrote shit but even then its whatever
slate crown
Would be a question for outlaw but I think in 10.2 restealths matter more for them because of crackshot right?
karmic bane
hm ok I'll give it a try then
slow needle
Would be a question for outlaw but I think in 10.2 restealths matter more for th...
Yeah, this is something we'd have to sim probably.
proven jasper
Like dude you could literally play sub
slate crown
I think the least impactful is going to be for Sub
proven jasper
And never stealth
slate crown
Sub is where it matters least
proven jasper
And be perfectly fine
slow needle
But losing a 'free' crackshot window at the start of a pack may be a bigger loss.
karmic bane
Like dude you could literally play sub
I understand but I really enjoy outlaws rotation the most
thats' why I"m mostly asking about dps losses between stealth
slow needle
I understand but I really enjoy outlaws rotation the most
If you're talking about live Outlaw rotation, that is changing somewhat significantly coming into 10.2
Just as an FYI.
proven jasper
ye
karmic bane
If you're talking about live Outlaw rotation, that is changing somewhat signific...
I should clarify I mean 10.,2
I have not played lives iteration
Only boosted a toon to 70
so I could try for 10,2
void mesa
Outlaw currently is looking to be the "stealth" spec in 10.2 from what I remember
keen spruce
void mesa
Tho restealth on open may be better for sin?
keen spruce
i haven't play pirate since s1 and i couldn't be fucked to restealth like at all
oh they have that new thing
slow needle
That is something to go ask in #tww-outlaw though tbh.
keen spruce
nvm
void mesa
Crackshot is cracked yo
void mesa
Like sin snapshots off of stealth, but outlaw wants stealth uptime
And sub doesnt give a shit outside burst windows
karmic bane
That is something to go ask in <#1014354035526090843> though tbh.
even they don't know
I just got 2 diff answers
keen spruce
that's ol for u
slate crown
I mean if you pose the question to each discord channel asking "How much does restealths matter to this spec" the answer to that question is going to be "not much" in every channel, but I struggle to know how we could compare the relative discrepancy between the specs until we have fully fleshed out sims on all 3. All 3 have some interaction, and I would think that Subs interaction with stealth is the least impactful
karmic bane
I mean if you pose the question to each discord channel asking "How much does re...
I didn't think the rework could change stealth mechs
but again I know nothing about the class
keen spruce
i mean the ol rework literally changed stealth mechanics
with crackshot
well at least stealth interaction with other impactful abilities
void mesa
Sin got some slight talent changes related to stealth, but its mainly about KB joining the skills we use and it making us more 1min burst
slate crown
I think at the end of the day right now
void mesa
And yeah, OL has 1 capstone that changed everything stealth
slate crown
If restealths make you bristle, you are probably safest playing Sub
karmic bane
i mean the ol rework literally changed stealth mechanics
rogues never restealth on raid fights though right?
keen spruce
we use vanish
void mesa
Nope never
karmic bane
maybe I'll just main it for raid then
slate crown
It's impact varies for sure
keen spruce
i mean if you're playing around the 3k range
karmic bane
arms and fury not the best spot rn
keen spruce
and pugging
karmic bane
and devs show no signs of change
keen spruce
you're gonna get restealths
slate crown
keen spruce
and sometimes you wont
and that's no big deal
in raid fights it doesn't matter because your "restealths" are baked into your dps rotation
with vanish
at least on sub I mostly pugged up to 3200 and never worried about restealthing a single time
it's only nice because you get to shadow strike as an extra blink
proven jasper
I come from the warrior discord
I told you we are blessed with whispyr here
that man doesnt stop grinding
You can usually plan where to have your vanishes in keys also for sin
if you know you wont get a re
And you want iron wire/imp garrote
void mesa
But next patch we'll play with dance/IC/wire so its gonna be lit
void mesa
1 min cd on top of the re stealths
And if theres an emergency, just hit vanish
Like vanish can be the "utility" cd and dance be the rotational one
So much potential
proven jasper
Yeah thats how i see it
void mesa
As well as doing triple wire back to back in specific cases
So much options and agency
slow needle
so in this vidoe that you guys linked says 3 percent is how much ass would lose ...
I asked Zac to run some dungeonslice sims to get a quick and dirty number even though there is a lot of sim work to do.
Its about an 8.5% loss for both of the main builds being looked at right now.
For Outlaw to not restealth at all.
karmic bane
damn thats a lot
slate crown
I mean if you liked 10.1 fury and CDR on a major CD, Sub's got you covered and doesn't care about restealths
karmic bane
but you won't have to restleath in raid from what others said
so I'll just main it in raid
slow needle
so I'll just main it in raid
Sub still won't particularly care about it.
karmic bane
right and it's funny that sub doesn't stick to me rotationally
maybe I'll try it again
slate crown
Sub is... in a weird place I gather from skimming their ptr channel, they're cooking in there all day for the past week with changes. it's definitely different than it is on live if you want to see what they're on about right now
slow needle
Sub is... in a weird place I gather from skimming their ptr channel, they're co...
Is it weird or are they just exploring the changes fully?
karmic bane
sure maybe I'll try ass at some point too
I'll try them all out agin
I just know in SL I ddin't like having to stealth between packs
idk why
slow needle
I don't care about sub enough to keep an eye on the theorycrafting there.
I'll just wait for the output and thank Fuu.
slate crown
I think they're fully exploring the changes but builds like Rotten + sepsis even I think are showing up as contenders which is a shake up from live
grim jay
Sub is... in a weird place I gather from skimming their ptr channel, they're co...
its really not in any weird place
the apl is just still getting worked on
and it still has some bugs
forest nacelle
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898695696482305/1155731369952034896/bo...
that the new fury rotation?
slate crown
Not anymore
Kind of but not anymore, now you don't spam BB, you have to weave a GCD between BB because they changed something
forest nacelle
rip
dark light
hey can anyone go through my logs and help a bit
runic hinge
!log
prisma monolithBOT
Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage
Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/
runic hinge
hey can anyone go through my logs and help a bit
Try that
keen spruce
it's very cozy for assas
has pretty much everything you need to know
but if you have any clarifying questions feel free to drop them in here if somethin doesn't make sense
dark light
Is the difference between Cr and Ec Flask pretty big?
latent copper
do you change any of your talents for Tyrcanical weeks for more ST Dmg?
balmy condor
Is the difference between Cr and Ec Flask pretty big?
What are these acronyms
Crit rate and….
Eclair
dark light
Corrupting rage, ele chaos
dark light
ah
balmy condor
Ele chaos is like the 3rd choice or something
Been a long time since I’ve seen that phial
willow kite
mfw when I topgear sim for corrupting rage and then I'm asked to switch by raid leader
balmy condor
>mfw when I topgear sim for corrupting rage and then I'm asked to switch by raid...
Is this a real thing that happens
willow kite
yeah
willow kite
I get asked to switch on "prog" bosses, ie any boss that even though we've already killed them other people eat random shit and need healing, so I can't take the extra damage
keen spruce
our raid is more like "take vers flasks for now on prog, the healing check is kind of rough"
-6 people turn green-
willow kite
and I just can't be bothered with the discussion that comes with saying anything against it
I mean, I choose to raid with the guild because I like the people in it, but that also means I gotta kinda accept some of the shenanigans that comes with it
the life of an eternal 5/9M raider
keen spruce
Is this a real thing that happens
this is a thing that happens to most guilds i think 
but also most guild are trialing new healers every 3 weeks that haven't played since SoD and are like 15 ilvls below everyone else so maybe the vers phials are doin something
gilded oasis
your guild uses phials??
balmy condor
60% overhealing from my hpal in raid cause all of his shit just aoe slams everyone and we’re worried about a phial dot doing some tiny damage maybe sometimes
willow kite
I might bring up the discussion after all, this convo is egging me on
gilded oasis
just keep saying "huh" like you dont understand and keep rockin the crit flask
dark light
no speako English sir!!
keen spruce
see but this is your healing on your prog kill for sark whispyr
and this was ours
and we were like 3 ilvls higher 
balmy condor
Is that including overheal
balmy condor
keen spruce
oh i mean to be fair
balmy condor
I mean the fight got giga nerfed between my prog kill and your prog kill no?
balmy condor
earnest remnant
see but this is your healing on your prog kill for sark whispyr
this was ours
hidden bone
What poisons are best to use? Been reading amplified is not that good
runic hinge
Amp is the best poison
hidden bone
Not sure if I’m reading it right but it looks to me like amp and deadly says not to use
balmy condor
">" is a comparative operator meaning "greater than"
so amp is the best
then deadly
and then nothing
hidden bone
Gotcha thank you very much for clarity
Thank you for all your information on rogues going to help me out a lot
lavish cedar
Hey , Got a question. the opener on Assa Faq and the opener on raidbots are widely diffrerent from each other. Which one should i follow ?
balmy condor
the one you think is more fun
the difference isn't really that noticeable
the faq is technically like 100 dps better
lavish cedar
aha , rupturing with 2 combo point seemed very weird to me but i guess its empowered by repri
balmy condor
ye
gusty mirage
this was ours for our kill
we had people using crit phials
after p1 you take like
no damage
why would crit phials matter
lol
gleaming glacier
Just a question, using Afenar's WA suite but having trouble keeping an eye on the improved garrote casts, is there a way to track when its an improved garrote DoT?
slate crown
^this one started as an afenar copy
gleaming glacier
Thanks gang, you guys are awesome
slate crown
snitch
slow needle
Good thing I rung that bell!
balmy condor
Thought I yoinked it fast enough
slow needle
Outlaw main. Just constantly twitching ready to hit buttons.
candid geyser
Thought I yoinked it fast enough
Give it back!
slow needle
Last phase of last boss in ToT is meant to be a kind of victory lap. It was in the original dungeon where you would deal with add waves then get buffed.
And finish off Ozumat.
They just replaced the add waves with the ink blob thing.
balmy condor
Last phase of last boss in ToT is meant to be a kind of victory lap. It was in t...
yeh just doesn't make sense really to have 2 bosses that have that
seems
really off
cause the mindbender was the exact same
crazy overtuned p1, and then p2 was actually just afk and you win
slow needle
I didn't know that.
I've somehow managed to see the entirety of the dungeon on streams but that boss.
balmy condor
yeh p1 on mindbender the flameshock hit me for half my health
and then the dot was 65k every second
for 10 seconds
it was SUPER rough
we kill that, the mindbender comes out with actually no hp
does one LoS cast
and then falls over
neither one of the fights are really all that interesting, but then having them also be double victory lap phases
is just so weird
the entire flow of the dungeon was super whack though
it felt like a press W the entire time but you'd randomly have like boss -> boss
or an entire hallway of trash, mini-boss level mobs at the end -> boss -> backtrack the hallway you just had to clear
idk
the whole dungeon is super outdated and adding a couple extra mobs, reworking some of the boss mechanics, and slapping an m+ timer on it
doesn't feel all that great
but that's sort of been the tradition with these old ass dungeons
anything pre-wod is an actually just a dumpster fire in the modern system and needs huge overhauls, but it seems like they just don't put the resources into it
slow needle
Yeah, I'm thinking maybe more teleporters to prevent the back tracking.
But then it just becomes super linear.
balmy condor
yeh and they already replaced both elevators with basically teleporters
so you'd just be doing teleporter into teleporter into teleporter the whole time
idk
slow needle
Maybe if the path to the third boss wasn't blocked off at the start.
And you could choose which way to go?
But I'm not sure that makes it better.
balmy condor
its just systemically outdated design and if they want to make it work they need to rethink the layout, the mob count, and the gimmicks
duct taping over it ain't the move
slow needle
I'm kind of believe that anything before MoP isn't worth since they weren't designed to speed run content.
balmy condor
even the mop stuff is cringe imo
slow needle
I won't die on this hill but I think TJS wasn't terrible.
The worst bits about it were the additional mobs and packs they added.
balmy condor
mop challenge mode was can you dps and giga pull harder
which kinda isn't how m+ is designed now
slow needle
Like that final pack. 😬
balmy condor
but they're all still press w
slow needle
I guess they're just desperate to try and reuse some of the old dungeons again.
balmy condor
I don't blame them, it makes the m+ pool less stale
slow needle
Which I can kinda understand. But at the same time wish they had taken the entirety of Season 1 to do S2 stuff properly.
And let us have all the DF dungeons for S1. New expac, new dungeons.
balmy condor
they just don't seem to care enough to make sure the old dungeons are actually good
slow needle
Other than tuning. Do you think Everbloom is the same?
I've not run any PTR keys and watching people like Dorki do stuff on a 25 without affixes doesn't really give a proper impression of things.
But Everbloom is the other 'old' dungeon in the pool but is also from the last expac before M+ became a thing.
granite grail
It doesn't even matter when the dungeon was released
Do you not remember Lower Karazhan?
slow needle
Barely from Legion.
From SL mainly yeah.
But I didn't really run keys above a 20 in S4.
balmy condor
Other than tuning. Do you think Everbloom is the same?
everbloom is more open in the pathing so it doesn't suffer as much
they also did a good job with the pacing
the core of everbloom is just already fleshed out to be more like a "regular" m+ dungeon
it's more akin to like an underrot or something
slow needle
That makes sense.
royal lantern
i personaly think its somewhat ridicolous that they first stated " we will do old dungeons, but not older then MoP"
and then just do cata not even 6months later
slow needle
And not even a good Cata dungeon.
royal lantern
and VP was not received positive lol, so why double down on it, espacialy on a dungeon that is well known to be hated
slow needle
They could have brought back a classic like Deadmines.
Or Stonecore which I tend to hear good things about.
royal lantern
stonecore is the dungeon you hear about cus "le meme randoms dont run out of aoe xdddddd" and thats it
cata dungeons are all horrible
im allready not a fan of the entire "old dungeons in m+" thing, but cata dungeons and then some of the absolute worst ones just makes it really fucking bad
slow needle
I would have minded far less if they didn't just start with them in S1.
I strongly believe that they should have had S1 DF be just DF dungeons.
royal lantern
like, sorry but next patch you pay money for a weekly sub, and then all dungeons except 2 are content that is 5-14years old lol
slow needle
Cycle out the ones they thought needed the most work and done that during S2 while preparing the old dungeons for S3.
oak tangle
i get that point if you've been playing wow that entire time, but as someone who started in BFA the only dungeon so far that is a reuse for me was freehold, and it arguably is still a good dungeon. i know others didnt start in BFA, but i'd imagine there is a large enough base of people that have never done those old dungeons and it is essentially new content, which they update to feel current
i also think they need to do stuff like it, cause they shoot themselves in the foot every expansion by essentially making all of the content no longer relevant for the game
slow needle
i also think they need to do stuff like it, cause they shoot themselves in the f...
I agree for the most part with this. My biggest gripe is coming into a new expac. Excited for 8 new dungeons in M+! Spend M0 weeks doing them all to get a feel, I'm ready to blast these brand new dungeons in my favourite PvE minigame!
Then get told that half of what I'll be grinding is a dungeon that I had to grind in SL, and 3 other old dungeons.
And only half of the season would be in new things.
Obviously I knew about it before the expac even released but, it definitely tempered my excitement at least a bit.
oak tangle
i do agree, i think they should have focussed on older dungeons imo, there has been far too many legion dungeons imo
slow needle
S1 should have been all 8 of the new ones.
slow needle
i do agree, i think they should have focussed on older dungeons imo, there has b...
Ngl, the legion ones have been my favourite so far out of the old ones.
I enjoy doing the Halls of Valor bear pull as a tank xD
oak tangle
like i get that legion was looked highly upon, but in terms of content dating, it highlights the problem you guys have been discussing
slow needle
Why do you think it highlights the problem?
oak tangle
the dungeons are new enough for people to remember them and for them to still feel kinda current. but old enough that they need to have some thing adjusted. They picked them i guess because they were the birthing place for M+ but it feels more like a cop out to put a legion dungeon in than to pick an older one and actually rework it
slow needle
Yeah I can agree with that.
Legion was a very different time in terms of survivability and stuff.
The thing is. Most people want M+ dungeons to not be incredibly linear.
To have some flexibility in the route that you can take to path through. Primarily in choosing to play or skip different packs via personal preference.
And in a lot of the older dungeons this just isn't possible.
They are very linear and you have to kill basically everything in your way.
TJS was a good example of this in that there were like 3 mobs that you would skip max via invis and everything else on the path was played. (I do understand you technically had a choice between which boss you killed first in TJS but practically you didn't if you were skipping those mobs)
Thats not to say modern dungeons are necessarily better at this. But the dungeons which are remembered fondly usually are.
oak tangle
I can see that, yeah a bunch of the DF are press w, but not all
slow needle
Stuff like Atal/Freehold
oak tangle
algethar for example, i really enjoyed that
slow needle
Algethar was nice because you could change up what you played at least a little.
oak tangle
i mean you can go left or right in ruby life pools, but you essentially had to do the same mobs regardless
slow needle
Yeah, any variation is in how much you pull at the start.
Or specifically which bits you pull before first boss.
Same with Nokhuud in that there was a bit of variation but them locking you into killing specific packs to spawn each boss limited variation.
oak tangle
i didn't mind that, because there was strat to kill the ones required and then while the spawn animation was happening to kill another pack
slow needle
And I understand why Blizz moved away from the idea of being able to have several different totally different routes through a dungeon where if you just pressed W you either ended up quite under count or hugely over it.
It puts a bunch of pressure, usually on the tanks in PuGs, on someone to know routes for each dungeon properly.
glacial shuttle
I don't think t hey started designing dungeons with that as a negative feature tbh.
slow needle
I don't think t hey started designing dungeons with that as a negative feature t...
Started designing when and with what as a negative feature?
glacial shuttle
I don't think Blizz think of multiple pathing options as a bad thing.
slow needle
I don't think they believe it to be a bad thing.
glacial shuttle
And I understand why Blizz moved away from the idea of being able to have severa...
Then I don't understand this comment.
slow needle
Just that there tend to be fewer options for routing now than before.
glacial shuttle
hmmm
slow needle
Then I don't understand this comment.
Blizzard changed it so just pressing W gets you to roughly where you need to be count wise.
oak tangle
i do wonder what their intentions were for nokhuud, because everyone skipping to the side to kill 2 mobs before the last boss, you would be so much over count if you went down the middle
slow needle
And there are fewer dungeons with realistically more than 2 routes through them.
Though tbf a lot of Legion dungeons don't have mega amounts of routing choices.
glacial shuttle
Blizzard changed it so just pressing W gets you to roughly where you need to be ...
I mean that's probably true for the older dungeons that got reworked
definitely true for VP
and uldaman
slow needle
Its true for a bunch of the dungeons.
I can't think of a dungeon where its possible to just press w and not end up at 100%.
oak tangle
uldaman was interesting because of the pacing of the dungeon, and killing second boss to have a lust to rip on first boss
glacial shuttle
brackenhide, nokhud, neltharus to a lesser extent
slow needle
If you're just naively running through and not trying to skip things.
oak tangle
i think you could definately have done it in freehold