assassination

[spice surge]

Then maybe the deadly thing is fixed too

It was something pvpers complained about for a long time

[gaunt moat]

It does also apply 2 stacks of wounding poison sometimes

[rotund oak]

u know too much

someone silence him

[slim hamlet]

Sorry buddy aint playing spriest

[rotund oak]

garrote does the same,also thematic

[slim hamlet]

vanish on cd m8

haven't specced sd

[rotund oak]

meld,stealth garrote

[deft flicker]

Vanish has a cooldown??

What??

[slim hamlet]

smh

these yellow namers

[rotund oak]

too weak to be a rogue

[worn sorrel]

why does outlaw need stealth

[flint tusk]

Why does outlaw…

[neon burrow]

Imagine talking about loser specs in the assassination discussion channel. :P jkjk

[balmy condor]

You’re so based

[neon burrow]

Outlaw uses stealth to gain a haste buff for 20 seconds

[slim hamlet]

Outlaw with crackshot might just get more dmg from stealth than sin

[royal lantern]

and then haste doesnt even do anything

[clever sapphire]

Doesnt outlaw have a talent where snd gives more attack speed based on haste?

Or atleast in 10.2

[slim hamlet]

ye

[neon burrow]

Thats the new talent

[slim hamlet]

another talent makes it a bit better too

can't remember which

[clever sapphire]

Outlaw stacking haste to attack like a machine gun

[limber lion]

Killing Spree scaling off of haste

[flint tusk]

Correction. Thinks they’re like a machinegun but actually

https://tenor.com/view/fallgirl-swamp-mob-lilnaiad-bo-yes-gif-20436743

[gusty mirage]

how's the build coming along

[limber lion]

Not bad, did you see the boots I made?

[gusty mirage]

did you get the gloves made?

[limber lion]

You gave me some, remember

[gusty mirage]

true

[limber lion]

entirely spoonfed

[gusty mirage]

I mirror'd sushi's omni ring and bought a kalandra's touch

and it's just gg done

[limber lion]

shesh

[gusty mirage]

I'm not farming 4 more mirrors and 4 mirrors worth of divine to get it "absolute" best

if you get bored try out the new guardian

the sentinel of radiance is actually stupid strong

[limber lion]

Yeah I saw, looks pretty chill to level with

[gusty mirage]

once I did a deathless wave 30 simu on my ts build

I knew it was over

lmao

[deft patio]

i rly hope they rework carnage in ptr, because current passive one is super bad

[slim hamlet]

Pretty decent right now

But it will be changed for longer duration or something like that

[smoky horizon]

Wait people test stuff in Proving Grounds? Thats 5Head for sure

[balmy condor]

I guess you could yeah

[deft patio]

the stealth req should be removed tbh

[fallen forge]

is there a way to log a test dummy?

[balmy condor]

Like you would log anything else

Start the log and hit it

[fallen forge]

ahh okay i think it just took a little longer to register cause the dots prob kept me in combat

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1aHQxm3X2zY9bVNw#fight=17&type=summary&source=5&start=10550825&end=10851827
whispyr pls roast me im doing 8k less dps than my sim

[slim hamlet]

no

[deft patio]

why not? you think you got time to garrote and rupture people for 3 secs after stealth?

its so small of a window in m+

[slim hamlet]

Thats exactly whyu it is getting changed

[deft patio]

its getting changed?

[deft patio]

that sounds more of a ''hope''

[slim hamlet]

No

I wouldn't say it like that if it wasn't confirmed

[deft patio]

okei

i also hope we get another stack on vanish so that we get more stealth openers

[slim hamlet]

I doubt since vanish is so important for sin, but it does feel weird being the only spec with only 1 charge and no cdr for m+ mechanics

[deft patio]

yeah i feel like assasin only is bad in m+ thanks to the stealth req we need, and some tanks just keeps chain pulling so we wont ever get stealth without vanish

[spice surge]

Chain pulling is better than restealthing as assassination

Feel free to search around this channel for detailed explanations of why, but the tl:dr is the ramp-up time for ruptures/envenom costs you more damage than you gain from restealthing overall

[hushed fable]

There is a difference between chain pulling and dragging one mob at 10% hp to another pack 😉

[deft patio]

this guy gets it xD

[spice surge]

Well yes, but it doesnt matter much either way

That is not the reason why assa isnt good in m+

[deft patio]

why do you think they are bad in m+?

@spice surge

[balmy condor]

Okay I’ll take a quick look when I get back to my pc

[slim hamlet]

Because we don't deal enough dmg

[hushed fable]

I can tell you about my feelings for that matter, and I will be crucified probably... but anyway. On FH let's say I am sitting around 180k dps overall at the end of the dung at 444. I don't really feel like I'm lacking AoE dmg, my highest on 1st pack was over 700k dps. Not great, but not bad even though some can pull over 1 m there. I wouldn't mind having this AoE dmg Assa has right now. But ffs ST dmg is awful. My highest boss dmg was 1st boss in UR where I did 200k due to lucky procs on Call. Outside of that 120k is common dps for bosses in M+. Now let me tell you about comparing that to my mage where I play Frost mostly. I can do slightly more on packs and way more on bosses at 1 ilvl higher. So Assa would be more than decent for M+ if in addition to current AoE dmg would have better ST dmg, but unfortunately you have to sacrafice too much ST in order to go M+ build.

[gusty mirage]

why would you be crucified for that opinion

it's the reality

[earnest remnant]

ill do it for him

dw

i gotchu

[gusty mirage]

you don't do good enough aoe to justify speccing into all that aoe and losing that ST

and if you spec into ST

you do zdps in aoe

You'd find it hard pressed to get crucified for that opinion

[hushed fable]

Because a lot of comments here are saying that assa lacks aoe dmg in M+. And that's not true. AoE dmg is only bad if we consider what we sacrafice in ST for M+.

[deft patio]

yeah i totaly agree with you on this note, other classes just outperform us, hopefully this rework will change this issue for us

[gusty mirage]

I mean it does

for what you give up to get that aoe damage

it 110% lacks aoe damage

if you could sacrifice that ST damage and do fire mage aoe

then it wouldn't be an issue

you even said it yourself

you do similar numbers on your frost mage

while cranking out ST damage

if the sacrifice for ST gave good enough AoE, people wouldn't complain as much (well people still will complain because some people want everything all the time)

[hushed fable]

Yes. But I feel that Assa lacks more ST than AoE in M+ scenario. Not really AoE dmg. Because most of the time [as a Tyran weeks enjoyer] I'm much more scared of people fucking things up on bosses than trash, so I'd rather be pumpin big dps on boss than big dps on trash.

But also the Mage dps on bosses is inflated by 2x TW or just TW each boss. That's part of the issue in mage's design.

[gusty mirage]

yeah because you sacrifice so much ST to do any AoE damage

[spice surge]

Mage dps inflated becuase mages can have mage talents

[gusty mirage]

so you're left doing above average (at best) aoe

and mediocre ST

[balmy condor]

You’re arguing the same thing from a different perspective. People saying assa has no aoe are saying it from a position of assa being a “single target spec”. If you do good single target, you’re not doing any aoe

You’re flipping it around, going full aoe, saccing all the single target, and saying the single target is the issue

It’s the same issue

[hushed fable]

I'm not denying it that it is a matter of perspective. Mine is just more ST oriented than AoE. Probably because back in Legion where I was pushing big boyz keys as an Arcane Mage I had simillar issue. My AoE was poggers and my ST was terrible due to talent chaoices.

[balmy condor]

I think in general the vibe though, where it breaks down a bit (which might be why you felt like you would get crucified) is “assassination in single target is good, bring the aoe up” and not “the aoe is good, bring the single target up”

Like in raid for example, Assassination is one of the best boss damage specs right now. When it’s doing single target, it’s great, so the aoe sucks, not the other way around ya feel

[hushed fable]

Yeah, that's pretty much it.

[slim hamlet]

Anyways

Sin confirmed in the god comp in 10.2

Trust

[hushed fable]

Plz no. Too mnay FOTM rollers will make a bad rep.
[The reason why Fire mages have no place in my keys]

[slow needle]

I would rather have too many fotm rollers than it being in the position it is now 🙂

[slim hamlet]

It has already started

[slow needle]

Obviously there is a middle ground.

[slim hamlet]

Right now u can play for 2 weeks and become top 100 sin in m+ world

[slow needle]

But I wouldn't say no to Sin being a premier M+ spec for even half a patch and then brought back into reasonable balance to change community perception.

[slim hamlet]

pretty dank to flex on the non-knowers

[slow needle]

Ngl, I hard considered this at the start of the patch before I just couldn't be bothered.

[slim hamlet]

Like I played for half a week and am top 2.5k

[slow needle]

Just so I could call myself a 'top x rogue player' in M+.

(Forgetting to tell them its Sin rogue)

[slim hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/xdd-cat-xdd-twitch-xdd-twitch-xdd-emote-gif-26219559

[old jewel]

Timing all 20s alone puts you in top 250 world

[slim hamlet]

That's pretty good one

[slim hamlet]

exactly

it's piss easy if u could be asked

Only at about top 50 iirc it begins to be a bit rough

[slow needle]

Not even then.

[slim hamlet]

iirc top 50 is 2800 right

[slow needle]

34 is the first person to break 3k.

[hushed fable]

I mean to be fair, you can literally play anything to level of 25-26 key. So being a god-comp chosen doesn't mean much since majority of playerbase are not going to push 29s. What it means it would be just easier to pug higher keys.

[slow needle]

Yeah, its about community perception.

[slim hamlet]

3k is top 34 yea

so 22-24 range and u top 40 xd

[worn sorrel]

what are sin problems in m+?

I mean why it's not wanted

[slim hamlet]

Bad ST with m+ build and only decent aoe dmg

Also just aug + spriest being semi required in current season makes it even harder

[worn sorrel]

so basically only dps

[slim hamlet]

Yea

Sin has rly good utility

all of the rogue utility + huge iron wire with live IC

[worn sorrel]

ye

[deep snow]

i would be happy if we can keep live IC with shorter cd, it felt much better.

[slim hamlet]

Because it is op

[deep snow]

yeah, that much op, that we are not wanted in m+

[slim hamlet]

Clueless

[worn sorrel]

but dont make the single living dot spec into a dot everything with one spell spec plz

[slim hamlet]

Actually

I want all my abilities to be IC

[deep snow]

well even with the live IC you still press much more buttons than most of the other classes with them pressing 1-2 max buttons in aoe.

[worn sorrel]

when u open with IC you just do CT into envenom or ct spam

but then you actually have to redot

instead of just using ic again

[slim hamlet]

@deep snow

[balmy condor]

@fallen forge whats happenin with that vanish here bud

[slim hamlet]

It was pressed

[balmy condor]

yeah

you just arent' playing sepsis properly

this is kinda fine

really want that to be sepsis->gar->shiv

instead of how spread out this is

but that sepsis is 1:46, so it expires at 1:56, so you want to use the buff around 2:04, 2:05

ain't a garrote in sight

again, this shiv is just really late

the garrote is late

3:26, so I should be seeing a garrote 3:45ish

no garrote within a mile radius

you gotta be playing around the second buff with sepsis

it's the only reason sepsis is better than bone spike right now

[deep snow]

How exactly is aoe better spread out, when its going back to how it was before IC was a thing ? Now you have to tab target and multidot everything again with the exception you're forced to pick Dance with IC and play Nelf for racial.

[slim hamlet]

wat

Have you looked at new talents

[balmy condor]

spatter is a thing, exsang is a thing, sudden demise is a thing, poison bomb is more consistent, the fok talents got buffed, crimson tempest got changed

[slim hamlet]

or just talking

[balmy condor]

shiv got buffed

arterial got buffed

marked for death got buffed if you want to count that

dance is available to use

[slim hamlet]

4set is a thing

[deep snow]

I did forget about the arterial thing my bad, but my original point was about spreading garrote + rupture is going backwards

[slim hamlet]

Why is that bad

[balmy condor]

it has to

[slim hamlet]

Thats the spec

[balmy condor]

that's the point

[slim hamlet]

Also if u have played a single m+ dungeon on ptr you know that whole spewl about nelf racial and SD being NEEDED is just false

[balmy condor]

you can't have every bleed spreading to every target automatically and then also have strong aoe effects outside of that

you have 100% of your damage to distribute amongst your effects

[deep snow]

tbh 4set needs a tuning, the numbers are not real.

[balmy condor]

if you want IC to bleed everything in a 50km radius

that means everything else suffers

[slim hamlet]

Ye 4 set is dogwater

with current numbers

[balmy condor]

and that's not even mentioning the like, just gameplay warping

that IC created

you press IC, you spread your garrote and your rupture

legit 50% of your aoe is done

in 2 buttons

[slim hamlet]

and then the rest is done with 2 buttons too

[balmy condor]

it's like 8.3 where you just spammed fan of knives

yeah echoing blades was strong

but it was strong to a point where it was defining the gameplay single handedly

and that's not great

[fallen forge]

tyty this is really helpful

i think i need to find a wa for the sepsis debuff cause i always seem to forget it

[deep snow]

Thats how almost every class is played in M+, You jump in, pop cooldowns and spam 2 buttons, I mean, why making things harder on purpose ? It will make the spec less accessible for more people that wish to play M+. I personally had no problems with the live IC build, I liked the playstyle, was almost every run topping overall meters, but problem is that other classes can do better with more support and less effort, like Aug.

[slim hamlet]

because that's not this class

Also saying every class is 2 buttons is just false

[balmy condor]

Thats how almost every class is played in M+
okay, so you want to remove the last bit of variety then? make every spec play the same?

[deep snow]

I say almost, not every one

[slim hamlet]

Name one 2 button spec in aoe

[deep snow]

frost mage

[slim hamlet]

Well fuck

idk anything about frost

[fallen forge]

ele sham?

[deep snow]

DH

[slim hamlet]

Ele shaman isn't 2 button

[balmy condor]

it doesnt matter what is or isnt a 2 button spec

why should one of the non-2-button specs

join the pile

[fallen forge]

all i know is me likey multidotting

[drifting cedar]

Fury warr 1 button

[slim hamlet]

Because it's too hard Whispyr

[balmy condor]

why is having different playstyles an issue

[slim hamlet]

Fury warrior is 6 button rotation but sure bud

[slim hamlet]

That would make the game take 2 braincells 😦

[balmy condor]

why do people not want difference in how things play

it doesnt make sense

for every spec to be that

[drifting cedar]

I was kidding, but it is way easier than rog

[slim hamlet]

Tbh it isn't unironically

Live rogue is super easy for all specs

[deep snow]

Well I would have no issues with more complex playstyle if more effort = better results, but thats not how this game works sometimes.

[slim hamlet]

Man

[balmy condor]

thats not how most games work

because that doesn't make sense either

[slim hamlet]

U rly gotta play just one m+ in ptr

and come back Raven

Just a single one

[balmy condor]

if assassination is more difficult, it shouldn't automatically do more damage

there's wiggle room there

[fallen forge]

@balmy condor ok so if I'm using the sepsis second buff correctly, should i be saving vanish for second deathmark?

[balmy condor]

but you don't want to have a world

where playing "easy", accessible classes

aren't viable

[balmy condor]

yeah

it was actually your argument raven

I mean, why making things harder on purpose ? It will make the spec less accessible for more people that wish to play M+.

you make it harder because people enjoy the playstyle, and if it's a good playstyle and fun, and it performs, there's no issues. You don't make things harder and also 20% better, because that alienates a big portion of the community

you gotta have both sides of the spectrum

if every spec is easy

who fucking cares

boring

people who want that complexity, won't have fun

if every spec is hard

you make the game less accessible

there's a balance for it

[latent wedge]

is it worth useing crimson tempist on single target to help with Lethal Dose (more bleeds more bleed dmg)

[balmy condor]

no

[latent wedge]

thanks

[flint tusk]

i.e i play rogue because it's not the easiest class to play. that's part of the allure behind it.
makes playing it well feel awesome.

[slim hamlet]

I play sin because I like the more planning playstyle + bleed stuff I guess

spamming CT is not it for m+

[flint tusk]

but guy pushing buttons faster should mean more damage

[slim hamlet]

yea mb

[flint tusk]

I'd love to see if they brought back old threat system. could you imagine the speed of the culling xD

[oak sky]

Yeah that totally makes sense

Kill people for doing good damage

[slim hamlet]

That still happens in retail with warrios

[flint tusk]

I mean. it's more to do with managing a mechanic that takes skill but if that's what you get from it

[slim hamlet]

Yea idk if threat is rly a skill that is fun to play around

[flint tusk]

yeh not in the modern game

it's overly complex with dumb stuff as it is

[slim hamlet]

Anything that makes u stop dmg that is not a direct mechanic is hyper cringe

[flint tusk]

just would highly how many people do things without actually thinking.

Like assa you have to build the ability to resist pushing a button

similar to how threat used to be

[slim hamlet]

I guess

My warrior is a night elf so I still don't have to think

Just meld lol

[flint tusk]

depends how far they roll back the stupid amount or rather amount of complex mechanics now they're finally restricting WA's etc

i love meld so much

[slim hamlet]

Yea restricting WA's was rly good for nelth

[flint tusk]

was the most stupid decision i made in vanilla picking a nelf rogue but yeh got rewarded haha

[oak sky]

I seriously doubt they plan on bringing back high threat levels

Like ever

[flint tusk]

yeh, it's that ugly middle ground

[slim hamlet]

I think there is a higher chance they legit remove dps threat than them bringing it back yeah

[flint tusk]

yes bro, as i said i'd like to see how many people it trips up because people have zero self control.
that's the point of my comment.

[oak sky]

Didnt there end up being the exact kind of weakaura they wanted to get rid of

Ala jailer

[flint tusk]

that the 3rd party overlay you're refering to?

[oak sky]

Ya

[flint tusk]

like the really bad one if they left it

[slim hamlet]

The overlay stuff already is yeeted

[flint tusk]

i will say i'd love if blizzard actually just built some kind of dbm into the damn UI then they can control how over reaching they are. but their UI is still so bloody far behind it's nuts.

[slim hamlet]

Would require lots of work

Keeping it how it is, is perfect for me

[oak sky]

I dont think they have a problem with bossmods specifically like dbm and bigwigs but like

[slim hamlet]

I guess all the "wa needed is bad" is just for casuals that cba

[flint tusk]

oh i'm meaning more from a. why do you need 3rd party tools to play the game

[slim hamlet]

but do they really play content that requires it

[flint tusk]

could you imagine RWF with zero boss mods. that would be absolute hell

[oak sky]

General prog raiding without bossmods would be hell

[slim hamlet]

Yea either u completely delete WA's and make everything feel bad but be able to make easier mechanics

or keep it like is

I know which I would choose

[flint tusk]

ye, i personally think it's just because how bad they're at designing telegraphs of abilities. they've done it bloody amazing on some fights then forget everything for the rest.

[oak sky]

They just need to either have a way of assigning mechanics in game or it being telegraphed in some way yeah

[slim hamlet]

Smolderon with everything being same color

xdd

[oak sky]

A lot of the time the level of weakaura use is fine

[flint tusk]

gotta remeber WA's only exist due to the insufficient tools from the base UI.
in short anyway obviously there are things that blizzard will never do. like the resource/ability trackers pretty much everyone uses. or fancy poisons reminds etc

[oak sky]

But stuff like lords of dread jailer nelth etc are pretty egregious

[slim hamlet]

I mean

[flint tusk]

i agree WA's are largely fine. and that anyone can make something is great

[slim hamlet]

Lords of dreas is the only one I see as completely and insanely unplayable without WA

That one is just

idek

[oak sky]

Did you do mythic hailer

Jailer

[slim hamlet]

no

Watched it but didnt play myself

[oak sky]

You literally had to have everyone in a separate hole

[flint tusk]

like notter and his sepsis WA big help. but it shouldn't be needed! should have it's own aura in the base game just like blindside

[oak sky]

Without the weakaura theres no way to get 6 people in different holes consistently

Which means deaths in p1

Which means no kill

[slim hamlet]

Base UI debuff tracking

imagine

[grim tangle]

just do like ff14 and put numbers over people's head for assignments

[slim hamlet]

both targets and yourself

[oak sky]

They wouldve had to stagger the timings or have an indicator

But they didnt

So it was insanely weakaura dependent

[slim hamlet]

yea idk

I have no problem with WA's at all

[oak sky]

I dont mind them being nice reminders and stuff like that

[slim hamlet]

I can see it being cringe when it's legit unplayble without, but then just get it

[oak sky]

It just seems a little too much when theyre like actually required

And they havent been able to improve it so

Whatev

[flint tusk]

I think all of the stuff we're talking about they're struggling to make simpler due to the number of people in a raid.
how do you make something easier to solve while you still have so many ways of solving it.

i honestly don't have a clue how blizzard can get themselves out of the hole they're in without drastic changes.

a brilliant point. on whispyr's stream during raid testing on one pull he goes.
I can't see a single things of what is actually fucking happening or where i am

if he is saying that! what about billy who's just tucked his kids in at night.

[gusty mirage]

@gray crest the homie 🥲

[gray crest]

[gusty mirage]

@spice spire

https://tenor.com/view/finished-elijah-wood-lord-of-the-rings-lava-fire-gif-5894611

[slim hamlet]

Wait

U telling me not everyone got this on their first week of 10.1.5?

[gusty mirage]

yeah but then you quit

bozo

smelly ass

[spice spire]

It was always roujin

[slim hamlet]

I came back for 10.1.5 😠

The mega dungeon was the first thing I did and the daggers were the first thing I looted in all of 10.1

Just better

[cerulean walrus]

@spice spire Bro fartin

[blazing jewel]

[gray crest]

im 2 for 3

selling nick of time daggers for 1m

[shy pecan]

How about hugs instead of 1m?

[gusty mirage]

"better"

[cerulean walrus]

KIR

[shy pecan]

Roll better, duh 🙂

[gusty mirage]

roll what better

some of us have been done with the tier for 3 months

[balmy condor]

roll better friends I guess

like jez not playing poe this season

but every time I talk to her about it

[gusty mirage]

I offered to play poe with you

[balmy condor]

"yeah I've been watching ziz all day"

[gusty mirage]

but you don't like me

[spice surge]

Roll deez nuts

[gusty mirage]

[spice surge]

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

I don't want to hold you back boobear

you're much faster than me

[gusty mirage]

I got a new build

SRSCuckazoid

https://poe.ninja/builds/ancestor/character/eleoxi/smalltownaldean build finished

cba farming 5 mirrors to "perfect" it

[balmy condor]

bro that chest sucks ass what

surely

[gusty mirage]

wdym

I'm ailment immune cause of that chest

[balmy condor]

suppress, rmr, phys reduc, ailment

[gusty mirage]

ya

[balmy condor]

• 2 garbo

surely there's better

[gusty mirage]

sure

but I'm not spending 100div on a chest

[balmy condor]

yeh I guess fair

[gusty mirage]

I think I'm okay on damage

[balmy condor]

where's your lightning warp hello

[gusty mirage]

real move would be to get the cold conv watchers eye

mirror a cold conv quiver

and make new gloves

[shy pecan]

Damn, I was gonna dn you, but Eleem beat me to it

[spice surge]

[shy pecan]

[spice spire]

On jah?

[light warren]

Yo, so im simming for crafted gear. and it saying for neck that mastery + verse is my biggest upgrade. Im wondering if it would be better to just craft it as crit + mast for main stat then figure out where i need to change other gear? I dont ever want to recraft stuff due to gold costs

or would it be better to just craft what it says is best and deal with it later

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jqsg7trSQCbMgdzmunTV1w

oh and like when i sim with no buffs crit + mastery is better but i dunno whats the best to compare it to

all optional buffs or no buffs

[balmy condor]

without having any gems in any of these necks it's pretty much worthless

you can fix a lot of stats with just gems alone

so idk how much value this has in general

[light warren]

well i can add gems to any of them

[balmy condor]

if anything I would probably craft it mastery/haste

and then go from there

[light warren]

why that one?

[balmy condor]

having 1 piece crafted with haste typically ends up being better for people

you'll lose some haste as well when you craft your rings crit/mast

so just looking ahead having a piece with haste seems pretty reasonable

[light warren]

are rings more important for crafting crit mast?

[drifting cloud]

smaller stat swings

[balmy condor]

if you're simming for a raid setting idk why you would sim with no buffs, you'll have buffs in the raid so you'd want to sim based on that

[balmy condor]

you can craft whatever with whatever stats

I'm just saying

out of all the pieces

one of them typically will want haste

might as well make it the neck

[light warren]

my raid group doesnt have priest/druid/dh/warrior/monk lmao. its like all dragons dk's hunters and shit. but ok thank you

[balmy condor]

bro what

your raid group is missing

everything except mage?

that's so omega cursed

[light warren]

im the only monk but if i rogue no monk

[balmy condor]

what the fuck

[drifting cloud]

prob 10man hc with friends or something

[light warren]

the dh this time was fill in because other dk tank was away

[balmy condor]

that's some clown ass comp right there

holy

[fleet pagoda]

yeah my raid group had 4 BM hunters last weekend, no DH's or monks though

[drifting cloud]

one of the setups of all time

[light warren]

both bm hunters are also people we are carrying lmao

[balmy condor]

I mean

if your guild lead aint gonna fix that

then I guess sim without buffs

but jesus christ lmao

[light warren]

is vers bad to put on craft?

[balmy condor]

you should get enough vers from the bad tier pieces to where you shouldn't need any more

if its not enough you just gem like mast/vers gems or something

but I

dont think I've seen anyone

need to do that

[drifting cloud]

theres just so many moving factors

[light warren]

ok sim just likes vers for some reason rn

[balmy condor]

generally it's just craft everything crit/mast and maybe one mast/haste

and then fix the rest with gems and enchants

[light warren]

cool

[balmy condor]

cause gems and enchants can shift your stats by like 600

[drifting cloud]

do you have a crafted helm whisp

[balmy condor]

nah

tier helm

crafted chest

[light warren]

yea sim between using buzzing rune and no also makes crit craft better / worse

[drifting cloud]

crit/mast chest like the raid or?

[balmy condor]

yeh

[drifting cloud]

just with the embelishmetn ig

[balmy condor]

but I actually got a sidegrade out of vault this week

[light warren]

i got this from the mega and ive been so happy

[balmy condor]

447 haste mast

with avoid

so now I'm running that

big avoid roll

[drifting cloud]

avoidance doesnt mean you can skip raids whispyr

[gusty mirage]

you're still doing keys?

[balmy condor]

I was helping a friend catch up on splinters

[gusty mirage]

what a pal

[balmy condor]

I'm just that guy

[balmy condor]

and it paid off

[drifting cloud]

💀

[balmy condor]

little +150 dps with avoidance

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fySNWy81WWE6Fh9t5PwcAf

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

legit just mega dung dagger

and then I'm done

nothing left

might recraft one ring to crit mast when I get mega dung dagger

sims were sorta trying to crawl back some crit

[gusty mirage]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aGQdcs2NdWgySGbCAUybHN

finito

[drifting cloud]

race changed aswell

[gusty mirage]

[drifting cloud]

youve changed

[balmy condor]

I like seeing the world ryler

is that so bad

[drifting cloud]

and I saw pi logs

im very disappointed

[balmy condor]

we raffle off PI every week

/roll and highest 3 get it

[drifting cloud]

opt out!

[balmy condor]

fuck no you kidding me

[gusty mirage]

he's changed

I always decline when offered PI

[drifting cloud]

we were raffling out the pad on assault

[balmy condor]

how am I supposed to compete with stealthi logs natty

[drifting cloud]

and I won and said fuck no im not respeccing

[balmy condor]

bro kills every fight a full minute and a half faster than me

[gusty mirage]

why are you trying to compete with a guy whose guild kills all 9 bosses in the time it takes our guilds to kill 3?

[balmy condor]

I need the booster seat man

[drifting cloud]

I mean dont bother trying to compete with colour

like were pretty fast and nowhere near them

xd

but now were doing a split so its just reclear safety

[gusty mirage]

wanna talk about washed?

[drifting cloud]

they need to nuke aug like asap

[gusty mirage]

@blazing jewel

explain

[drifting cloud]

because guilds practicing these 4man aug comps preparing for prog

is mega cringe

50s prepulls with tier AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[balmy condor]

because a millenia of patriarchy has conditioned men like me to have an insatiable lust for competition and victory by teaching young impressionable souls that its not enough to be above average, and now that I'm a product of the system my already faltering twink masculinity yearns for the acceptance brought forth only through victory, even if its a futile attempt at improving my self-esteem

does that explain it for you

[gusty mirage]

no

[balmy condor]

mr nosey

[gusty mirage]

this is a video game

you fuckin nerd

[balmy condor]

yes but number higher = I'm worth more

you don't get it

[gusty mirage]

you're muggsy bogues, he's shaquille oneal

you aint dunking on him lil bro

[drifting cloud]

problem is once you start killing bosses too fast

your number goes down

[grim tangle]

damn scana sucks

[gusty mirage]

we're just assembled uniquely

[ember mural]

maple story has big numbers

[drifting cloud]

phasing sark before 3rd add = no dm start of p3

[gusty mirage]

me and yellow on the magmorax leaderboards: 👬

and @woeful meteor

we all lost to deeny

so time to uninstall

[balmy condor]

bro I can't even hang on maplestory anymore, I brought ramfam into the game and within half a year he's soloing bossing in like 10 minutes while my main isn't even geared enough to do struggle progression in a full 6 man party

[drifting cloud]

what

[balmy condor]

dude does legit 100x my damage

[drifting cloud]

did I miss lore

[balmy condor]

it's lost

[gusty mirage]

deeny got a like r4 before he got knocked down a few by PI whores

[drifting cloud]

damn 5min kills

meanwhile I sac a dm cast because boss should die under 4:30 then 3 people die and it turns into a 5min kill

and I look like the big idiot

[woeful meteor]

pretty cool people in the top 15 tho

[gusty mirage]

roujin the mvp

he got me my nick of time

🥲

[woeful meteor]

huge

[blazing jewel]

what boss is this

[gusty mirage]

lava puppy

[blazing jewel]

o

our kill times are terrible on that I believe

rogue hasnt been in main raid since the new partition

actually I guess 5:01 isnt that bad

DOUBLE FERAL

[gaunt moat]

how are you 449 ilvl
i didn't realize that's even possible

[balmy condor]

mythic nelth trinket

all the sark gear

sark cloak

there's a couple of 450 tier pieces as well

pulls it up enough to get you there in bis

[gaunt moat]

cries in 445

[gusty mirage]

nick of time ruins that tho

brings you right back down to 448

[balmy condor]

yeh

[oak sky]

No shot how did colorxd beat you guys up

[gusty mirage]

he channelled his inner stealthi

[oak sky]

This couldve been my patch

Wrong .1

[gaunt moat]

Next tier for sure

[oak sky]

Surely i'll keep playing long enough into the tier that i can get good logs

[gaunt moat]

Imagine getting trinkets
But my guild prioritize giving beacon to tanks 🥲

Alright, back to LUA prison. (i hate lua)

[gusty mirage]

I mean after 10 kills of each boss

you kinda become the only one who wants/needs it

[gaunt moat]

Just in time for 10.2

[keen spruce]

11% on sark tonight

but i have to leave at break to go to wedding tomorrow

so i have 1.5 hours to kill it

[gaunt moat]

probably i'll get nick of time one week before 10.2 as well

Shmeeps, did you see i updated WA?

[keen spruce]

no what u do

[gaunt moat]

WA update broke it, so now it's fixed.
also added a small timer.

[keen spruce]

it was workin fine for me today

but i have the old version

[gaunt moat]

shiv indicator was broken

[keen spruce]

oh i don't have that

i have the old old one

pre-shiv indicator

I don't update WAs cuz it deletes my frogs

[gaunt moat]

you only need to update this one, it shouldn't damage any frogs

https://wago.io/Lgy47ma7G

[keen spruce]

i don't like chage

[gaunt moat]

You know what they say "you can only lead a horse to the water"..

[tired night]

Class trinket basically the same simDPS as essence but has the RNG highroll potential to be better right? It sims less for me but it seems way more popular on logs

[balmy condor]

correct

[light warren]

how do i sim what best gems are for neck?

[balmy condor]

you just top gear it

[light warren]

? like this

[tired night]

And remove the current ones if they are already in there

[light warren]

nah got none in rn

[balmy condor]

no

also if there were, that's pretty scummy

[deft flicker]

But a horse can’t water lead to you??

[shy pecan]

Should always be 200% unless there's a talent or passive for that spec, yeah?

Or 100% increase as you mentioned

[gaunt moat]

I'm just confused about what I'm seeing here.
It crits for 21.7k
but then it ticks again for 10.4
but half of 21.7 should be 10,850

(there's no shiv or anything going on)

[shy pecan]

What race are you?

[gaunt moat]

Blood elf

they only get 1% crit chance

[shy pecan]

Yeah, wasn't sure if you were tauren or dwarf

Lethality?

[gaunt moat]

I'm looking at other abilities, and their crits are exactly just double damage

[shy pecan]

Kingsbane gives you a combo point, yeah?

[gaunt moat]

Yes, but does it also affect the DoT part?

I'll test without lethality

oh yeah, it was defintely lethality. So it does affect the DoT.
good catch

[shy pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/ralph-wiggum-simpsons-hi-bye-gif-16529059407582436389

[balmy condor]

where ping

[gaunt moat]

It works like that with garrote too. But I didn't know that either.

[spice spire]

It was me

[balmy condor]

lethality works with anything that generates a combo point

sepsis and bone spike should be getting extra crit damage as well

[frozen iris]

What you doing with LUA? Do you dev addons?

[gaunt moat]

Working on a Kingsbane helper WA

[frozen iris]

For shiv interactions?

Err idk how to word what I want to say lol

[gaunt moat]

That'll be a part of it. I got some ideas.

[frozen iris]

What are your idea if you don’t mind laying them out

[gaunt moat]

I don't know what i'll be able to do, so for now gonna stick with just ideas

But i want to make KB more fun to use, and to easily parse how well you've utilized it, and help you make sure you've set it up correctly

[smoky horizon]

For Bonespike that’s only the press of the ability right? Not the entire DoT part

[balmy condor]

the dot should get 10% crit damage as well

[frozen iris]

Hmmmm interesting. It’s been a while since I used kingsbane but how do you use it correctly besides shivs for the entire cooldown and making sure bleeds don’t fall off during?

[gaunt moat]

It's mostly just envenom/shiv
unless we're gonna go insane and use shadow dance

[gilded oasis]

i imported your old KB wa to ptr but it lua'd me to death

[gaunt moat]

Yeah, that was made 6 years ago

[gilded oasis]

YEAH WELL

[gaunt moat]

We don't even have half the spells it tracks hah

[gilded oasis]

I thought maybe it might be ok

[gaunt moat]

I wasn't even the one who wrote most of it.
So now I gotta rewrite it from scratch

[violet karma]

Sub main considering switch to sin for mythic rashok, trying to figure out good trinkets to use. Only really missing call to suffering out of the best ones. Any suggestions that I won't figure out from simming? All my trinkets are equally 441 except for a 447 pocket anvil

[gilded oasis]

anvil isnt bad, rashok lasts long enough. what are your other options you have currently

[violet karma]

Mirror, Harlans, bomb dispenser, OCE, beacon all at 441, anvil 447

[gilded oasis]

have you simmed it? theyre all fine.. I think I ran bomb/anvil but I didnt have any choice at that time. bomb/harlan is fine.. I think OCE is good now? I kinda ignore oce conversations tbh. depends on if you want 2 on use or some passive ones. Beacon fine but you're hoping it crits and I think overalls/in the long run the others are better choices but someone smarter might know

[violet karma]

I'm not back at my computer yet to sim, but will when I do. Just figured I'd get insight for anything the sim might not show

[keen spruce]

if you have all OCE buffs

then most likely robot will tell you bomb dispenser OCE

bomb dispenser is basically guaranteed

OCE/Harlans/Beacon/anvil would probably all pretty competative

[spice spire]

I ain’t simmed on the computer in my life

[balmy condor]

My puter

I love all the silly people in my puter

[spice spire]

I only have a toaster

[vestal wren]

i did run simulations locally on my 🥔

[median flicker]

So I understand stat weights and what my stats should be, Just curious what your guys stats are, You can say the percentages or the actual numeric value, either or works

[dawn haven]

Lets fucking GO

My life is complete.

Ran dungeon with the other rogue in my guild who needed it but he traded it to me. Absolute gigachad.

Most rogue player

[lavish whale]

im curious, do you guys know you get 5cps if you garrote a already garroted target (from sepsis) with vanish?

[balmy condor]

You get 1 baseline, 2 additional from shrouded, and during Deathmark shrouded procs off the duplicated garrote as well which gives a total of 5

Sepsis does not give shrouded

Therefore you’d get 1 cp only

[lavish whale]

I was only 25% right

ill take that

ty whisp

[balmy condor]

If you stealth you get shrouded cp

No stealth no cp

[keen spruce]

o dur

we're dum @lavish whale

[lavish whale]

I was trying to figure out where it was coming from

we are lol

[keen spruce]

[lavish whale]

well now we know

https://tenor.com/view/themoreyouknow-more-know-gif-4483207

[smoky horizon]

What the hell is Timestrike?

[light warren]

no idea but it sims like crazy

no 447 dagger is better apperently from my sims at least

[blazing jewel]

its a damage proc

[dawn haven]

[gaunt moat]

It's 1k more dps that all that matters

[deft flicker]

But shrouded damage bonus is active all the time?? I remember reading that somewhere

[lost prism]

Hi there good people of Ravenholdt, quick question from someone who's returning to the game after a long time, which spec would you say is in a better position now, assa or sub? also taking in consideration that I am looking for the spec with less buttons ( I am not quite skilled 😆 )

[normal mist]

Well rn all the specs are getting reworked, so if you are talking about current patch, sub is amazing for m+ and raid and assa is extremely good in st fights

But next patch will change pretty much everything

So I'd advice you to read out ptr channels too

[lost prism]

thank you!

[gusty mirage]

Correct

[digital elk]

I kinda wish sepsis didn't actually activate my stealth bar :/

[burnt latch]

do u have different stuff on your stealth bar than regular bar

Identical for me atleast

[digital elk]

Trying to figure out how to navigate the awkward situation of needing to mutilate before garroting at the end of 2nd sepsis but I use the same keybind for mut and garrote in/out of stealth

2 is mut out of stealth and garrote in stealth

[slow needle]

How do you Garrote when not in stealth?

[digital elk]

g

[burnt latch]

eh id just change garrote keybind

[slow needle]

Then put it there.

[burnt latch]

ye use g

[slow needle]

In stealth.

[digital elk]

Yeah, I was considering that

Just kind of awkward because in sub I use 2 for shadowstrike

[slow needle]

My personal rule for stealth bars is things may be replaced but they never move.

Why are Sub binds influencing Sin binds?

[digital elk]

Not saying the game should cater to my personal preferences, but if bliz made sepsis not give you your stealth bar, I could macro "if bonus bar, use garrote, else, use mut"

They aren't I'm just comparing them

[fallen forge]

anyone know a good plater profile i can import for m+?

[digital elk]

Guess G it is 🫡

[burnt latch]

Isnt it more logical anyways to always press g for garrote? Instead of having to think abt if ur in stealth or not

Seems the best option all around to me

And frees up keybinds

[digital elk]

Yeah it'll be fine

Just making conversation I guess

I suppose the actual root of the problem is that I spam shadowstrike as sub but garrote you definitely do not

So having shadowstrike as 2 isn't an issue

[deft flicker]

Just want to have similarly purposed buttons on same keybinds

I guess

[digital elk]

Yeah, basically 2 is my builder regardless of the situation, ideally. So it would be mut/garrote in stealth. I'm complaining about nothing, don't mind me

[slow needle]

Which would make sense to have Mut sharing a Shadowstrike keybind then IMO. Since they fulfil similar purposes of being a primary builder.

[slow needle]

Getting feedback on stuff is always a good idea if you're unsure.

People may bring a different perspective you didn't consider.

[digital elk]

Yeah, I just always assume if I say anything in any class discord people will call me a moron

[slow needle]

I mean, if you're into that I can do that for you.

[digital elk]

Sure, why not

[slow needle]

Put garrote on G moron.

[digital elk]

Okay :,(

How about a sepsis weakaura that only triggers on the 2nd buff? Perhaps a check for combat log where one ends and another begins

[slow needle]

Knowing when the first one is about to end is also useful in the opener. Mine just shows the duration of the sepsis buff when I have it. So it triggers on both the first and second.

[digital elk]

I played a lot of rogue in s1, but stopped for the last half and haven't picked it back up till now, so I'm kinda re-learning. I don't think I've ever played sepsis, so pardon my ignorance. I assume the situation is, outside of the opener, garrote is still ticking but I have sepsis ready. I hit it and then wait until pandemic to use the first sepsis buff on garrote?

[slow needle]

You shouldn't be hitting pandemic by the time the first buff is running out.

In the opener.

[digital elk]

That's sort of what I figured, which is why I wasn't concerned with tracking the first buff

[slow needle]

Its more so you know when you have to hit it by.

[digital elk]

Gotcha

[slow needle]

So you don't miss it.

[clever sapphire]

O.o throw knife on 1, an ability you wont use 99% of the time

i dont even have it on my bars

[proven jasper]

[gilded oasis]

yeh I was gonna ask, if your main builder is on 2 wtf is on 1

maybe hes a ranged rogue

[clever sapphire]

pistol shot on 1 as outlaw i bet

[digital elk]

^ that is why

I played outlaw through almost all of vault

[clever sapphire]

im just so fecking smart

built different

[digital elk]

But also I just try building cps anytime I step out of melee

idk if that's dumb, i'm aware my out-of-melee time should be like one picosecond

Trust me, I am not noramlly one to put anything as infrequently used as throw poison dagger or w/e on 1, it's just natural after having pistol shot there for so long

[gilded oasis]

it used to be that throw dagger was used out of melee but I thought I saw recently its not worth? idk. I also use mine sometimes when Im running out of melee depending on the situation

[digital elk]

I can't see why it wouldn't be worth using, I think it costs very little energy, I assume you'd make back what you spent by the time to got back into melee range and you'd just have another cp

[clever sapphire]

i just go off of the feeling that if i will have full energy when i get back to boss even when using throw knife i will use it, if i wont be full energy i wont use it

[hushed fable]

You guys have a really weird bindings. Looks like classic wow bindings to me.

[light warren]

whats weird?

[digital elk]

bssides 1 being a ranged ability, which I understand is weird, what's weird about my binds?

[gilded oasis]

It was some interaction with poison stacks. I came in at the end of the conversation and didn't really scroll back up so I could be wrong too

[hushed fable]

I always thought that ever since big bariners figured out how 1-2-3-4... is unpractical to use especially while moving, majority plays something like this

[gilded oasis]

Idk I have no problem moving and using 1-4.i use my f keys too so

[hushed fable]

Unless you are moving with mouse, which would make sense in pvp scenario

Or have 1-2-3-4 bound to mouse I suppose.

[gilded oasis]

I find most the times keybinds are pretty personal preference. Something that works well for one person won't always work well for someone else. There's no optimal set up for every person

[digital elk]

I have no issues with 1-4, 2 is the easiest one to hit while strafing so that's why 2 is my builder. I have to press it the most often

[gilded oasis]

My mouse is bound to numpad numbers personally

[light warren]

my mouse has 2 buttons

[digital elk]

literally anything on 1,3,4 is equally difficult to press unless it's a cast imo. It's much easier to use on casters since you could put things like frost bolt on 1, since you don't ever press it while moving (with the exception of ice flows, etc.)

[light warren]

lol same 2 is my mutilate

[gilded oasis]

Idk I press 1 and move all the time . 1 is my mutilate

[digital elk]

I've just gotten used to playing twister with my fingers while moving

Yeah, I also press 1, 3, 4 while moving, it's just harder

[hushed fable]

Hmmm I'd have to bind my movment to esdf if I'd have to use 1 or 2 duirng movemnt. Maybe #HandsSizeMatters

[digital elk]

It would feel way fucking more awkward (in my personal opinion) to have my builders on mouse buttons. Spamming anything other than keypad5 (the middle button on my numpad mouse) feels very strange since it moves your mouse slightly

numpad0-9 on my mouse are used for CDs.

for assass, 1 is echoing, 2 is shadow dance (if I have it because that's my sub bind), 3 is thistle tea on every spec, 4 is deathmark, 5 is sepsis, etc. etc.

[gilded oasis]

My BF has 96% of his binds on mouse and uses keyboard to move and big cds I think

Depends on the person

[tacit mica]

can anyone recommend WA for improved garrote?

[digital elk]

I can make you one, what do you want it to do

[gaunt moat]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[burnt latch]

Id assume the opposite actually, think majority of players use 1-5 as their core rotational buttons as they’re defaulted by the first skills u get when youre leveling up

[tacit mica]

something that would just pop up/showed if current garrote on ur target is improved

[digital elk]

I can try and make that happen

sec

[gilded oasis]

there was a decent one posted a while ago

https://wago.io/zxhRObQLf/2 thought it was good. I heavily modified it and added in some more improved checks on ptr for myself but this is the original

I removed a bunch of the glows too cause I just like white text for normal garrote and green text if improved but he has a bunch of glows and conditions and stuff that some people might like

[tacit mica]

Thank you

[digital elk]

I was on the right track, of course it exists already though :,(

[gilded oasis]

and you dont need the extra stuff that Luxthos uses to hook into improved, its in there

[digital elk]

Was checking if imp garrote existed, had a duration of <=3s and garrote was cast

I need to delve into storing trigger values as variables, I'll be a super human with WAs then

with LUA

[gilded oasis]

its nice too cause my retail improved garrote stopped tracking on IC for off targets but this one does

if you look at the actions on this one it uses the other triggers maybe a good starting point to look at?

[digital elk]

Yeah but that's kind of cheating, I need to learn how to actually build things

Siphoning stuff from other weakauras is what I usually do

[gilded oasis]

eh it's a good place to start for some. I learn best by taking whats been done and reverse engineering it and figuring out why/how it works then trying to change ti to do something else and seeing if it works. I hate starting from scratch lol

Yeah basically all my WAs are from other people then I change it a bit for exactly what I wanted. Funnily enough I think most my WAs were from Notter from like years and years ago

[digital elk]

Yeah. I got tired of taking afenar/luxthros shit and mutating it to fit my needs. I just started from scratch and made a bunch of child groups/dynamic groups. Now I have my own "packs" for each class that fundamentally look the same. Like CC is always in the same spot. That sort of thing

Every class basically looks like this

[blissful forge]

yo could you send me the imp garrote string? :3

[digital elk]

I think this is what you're looking for

I didn't finish mine since that one got linked

[drifting cloud]

@balmy condor how long has hyperfox been banned

if they even are, just saw a log with him randomly linked in guild chat

good times in assa chat

[balmy condor]

Idk, maybe like 7,8 months?

[drifting cloud]

damn that long, time really flies

[burnt latch]

Whys he banned

[clever sapphire]

@balmy condor do you like my mog?

[balmy condor]

Holy what a distinguished individual

[clever sapphire]

[vestal wren]

nice hat

idk why, but it kinda lookes like the hands don't fit the rest of the body

[last tartan]

I seen yours and had to post mine lol 😂

[slate crown]

Oh hey I made that lmk if you have questions

[clever sapphire]

jokes on you guys, this is my real form. It was atomic thingy to make me vulpera and anima powers for the mog

(i actually need the mog tho)

[gilded oasis]

I liked it! I added MA and SS for PTR testing was easy enough and changed it for a rupture tracking one too. I really like the way you set it up

[slate crown]

Take a look at how trigger 3 uses the combat log triggers, and use debug mode with the DevTool addon if you want to dive into it

[gilded oasis]

yeah I liked the devtool I hadn't gotten that before

[slate crown]

I worry about overloading with too many combat log triggers, just for maintenance, what's in the Imp garrote one is fine but the more you add in the more cluttered the Trigger tab gets with combat log triggers that are all slight variations of each other. It's nice to stay as tied to Weakauras structures as possible for future support, but I get the feeling extending further would warrant going to a full independent, older-style CLEU trigger. Doing soo would be better for maintenance, but it makes it harder for non-devs to add in new triggers, which is easier with the WA UI and triggers tradeoffs

[digital elk]

thank you for the tip <3

[frozen gorge]

!Whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[spring bane]

this might be a stupid question, but are we macroing bomb trinket into an ability? or just setting it to a keybind?

[drifting cloud]

if you dont have a 2nd on use you can macro it to everything

[gilded oasis]

generally a bad habit to get into. it's best to have 2 keybinds for trinkets ready for the case of 2 on use (or pvp). At LEAST 1 key bind if you dont want to make 2
You CAN macro bomb to something if you have no other on use but if you happen to get one, or next tier 2 on use is the play again, you'll be in a bad muscle memory spot

[median flicker]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[austere fulcrum]

Do we have any information or guesses about when 10.2 ?

[drifting cloud]

early/mid november

[gaunt moat]

I need an opinion check.
You're on Echo of Neltharion, your raid stops damage in phase 1, so you can't DM there, you gotta delay it after phasing.
Afterwatrds you are left with two options:
Option A: Use DM on CD, so you get 2 more uses. One will be on 3rd big add, the other on boss after bloodlust.
Option B: Hold DM to use on boss during bloodlust.

What do you think is better

[balmy condor]

A

[austere fulcrum]

Is there any reason why u dont DM 1st or 2nd add ?

[gaunt moat]

because you DM boss slightly before 1st add spawn.
and you don't have DM for 2nd add.

[austere fulcrum]

Ah i dont do that because we need to hold dps,

So i go dm 1 st add

[balmy condor]

you DM boss right at the start of p2 in both situations

so that's not a factor

[gaunt moat]

I've been flamed for 20 minutes now because I did A

[balmy condor]

yeh well

they're some silly geese

[drifting cloud]

surely B makes the actual kill easier

[austere fulcrum]

Do u guys have any guesses on 10.2 timing by any chance 🙂

[balmy condor]

the only reason why you would do B would be if you're spending such a long time in p3 that you get your deathmark back at the end

are you hitting the enrage?

[gaunt moat]

We did get to enrage.
But even if you got it back, it would be for maybe a couple of seconds.

[balmy condor]

I wasn't thinking that this was prog

if its prog

then you would do B

[drifting cloud]

but I cant imagine its a big difference either way

also depends how clean your p2 is I guess

[gaunt moat]

it's reprog, yeah. we did kill it in the end. but spent whole night.

[drifting cloud]

and then if you have the longest p3 possible yeah youre just getting extra casts

[gaunt moat]

option A overall was higher. option B DM in bloodlust did 500k more damage.

[drifting cloud]

but not sure if planning for that is optimal in itself since that assumes alot of people die

[balmy condor]

yeah

if you're hitting enrage

you should do B

especially on a reprog where a kill isn't sure

you're putting more damage into p3 and if you reach the enrage you're getting another cast toward the end of p3

so you're not even really getting that much bonus

[drifting cloud]

well also depends when they actually lust 😛

[balmy condor]

I assume start of p3

like a normal raid

[gaunt moat]

Bloodlust is at about 5:30 and enrage is 7:30, so i'm a bit confused where do i get an extra DM time at the end

If the BL is earlier, at transition to phase 3, then yeah.

[balmy condor]

why are you guys not lusting at the start of p3

[gaunt moat]

Very good question that was asked. And hopefully next time we will.

i don't have an answer

[balmy condor]

this wasn't a 7:30 kill

but like

you definitely get a second deathmark

[gaunt moat]

yeah

[balmy condor]

if you full go

honestly if the lust isn't happening at the start I would probably recommend just holding the DM and sending it right at the start in order to try and get that second dm if you know dps is an issue and the enrage is gonna happen

[gaunt moat]

Something kinda intresting did happen though cause I helped push 3rd add faster.
boss was in hte middle of casting volcanic hearts, it got interrupted, and then we got like 10 extra seconds of hitting him before he phased, and that extra damage got the kill.

[drifting cloud]

[balmy condor]

[gaunt moat]

That's also what i've been doing for some pulls

[balmy condor]

you guys aren't getting nelth to 35%?

and immuning him?

wdym you got 10 extra seconds of hitting him

what is happening

[drifting cloud]

I think he means actual mid heart cast when add died so he bugged out?

or well .. lagged out

[gaunt moat]

That's what they said happened, but let me see the logs to be 100% what happened

[balmy condor]

[drifting cloud]

unless youre just used to never beating hearts so people thought he bugged out

[balmy condor]

how would that even work

if he's immune

then the 10 seconds won't matter

so you're saying you interrupt the heart

he phases

loses the shield

and then afk's for 10 seconds?

wouldn't that then push the enrage back to 7:40

I'm so lost

[drifting cloud]

does the boss actually have an enrage or do you just mean 4th cast in p3

[gaunt moat]

I defintely saw a heart cast gets interrupted, like, I had the circle around me, and it dissapeard, and boss was not immune

[balmy condor]

4th cast

• some extra seconds before he starts picking off your raid with melees

[balmy condor]

was he at 35% already

[gaunt moat]

yes

[drifting cloud]

oh thats normal

just means you phased before they exploded

[balmy condor]

yeah

that's just a phase

but idk what the 10 second thing is

did he just stand there after phasing for 10 seconds

and no purple portals?

he should break the walls down when he phases into p3

[gaunt moat]

You know, Maybe i misunderstood what i was told, or maybe they are wrong.
Cause i'm looking at the logs, and I don't think i see it.
So my bad.
I'll try to ask tomorrow for clarification

maybe they only meant the cast stop.

[balmy condor]

your raid sounds interesting

[gaunt moat]

Just me misunderstanding most likely

[balmy condor]

happens

[gaunt moat]

ah i also wanted to ask
Essence by default sims with all buffs, right?

[balmy condor]

yes

[gaunt moat]

I'm not sure why nelth trinket sims a lot higher for me than essence comapred to what general sims say
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3dP5bprm9Tu6D3JxxfM8Jf

[light warren]

Wow

7k higher then me

[balmy condor]

ah well

you gear compared

so that actually doesn't

[light warren]

wait gear compare doenst work?

[gaunt moat]

doesn't use all buffs you mean

[balmy condor]

you'd have to change the setting at the bottom for it

these

[gaunt moat]

right

[balmy condor]

nah it works fine

just gotta do the settings

wait you have crafted shoulders

[gaunt moat]

yeah i don't have tier shoulders

[balmy condor]

I am throwing up irl in your honor

that's cursed

[gaunt moat]

uh, actually, catalyst exsits 😬

but i put the food buff on shoulders

well it's kinda close.

[balmy condor]

seems more reasonable yeah

[light warren]

wait does the food buff go on any crafted peice?

i thought it was just back for some reason

[balmy condor]

yeh can go on anything

maybe not weapons

or was it chest

there's one slot that it can't go on for some weird reason I think

[gaunt moat]

I think i saw someone put it on weapons

[light warren]

rings?

[balmy condor]

vaguely remember something about it not working on some slot

but Idk what that was about