assassination

[bronze pike]

what?

i delete it then

peru it legit just mean egg boy

[balmy condor]

Te amo tambien papi

[balmy condor]

It’s okay, might be a cali thing

[main vessel]

[spice spire]

Idk if I’d heart this one

[bronze pike]

por que papi lindo

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/879980508094824468.webp?size=128&quality=lossless

[spice spire]

[past forum]

Just wanna make sure I’m not turbo dumb here. During experiments, when I vanish, I can put imp garrote on two bosses right?

[blazing jewel]

yes

would recommend using a finisher inbetween because you will get a lot of cps from a vanish garrote

[tired night]

The game would be so much more profitable if you could buy a PI scroll for $2.99 or 40 traders tender and the shop sold tender in groups of 30,60 and 100

[balmy condor]

I hate that you said that out loud

[cunning hull]

Lool

[cobalt hemlock]

sell a personal augmentation slave too

[sharp viper]

please delete that before realz or any other blizzard employee sees that

[balmy condor]

in papa microsoft we trust

[sharp viper]

how about we mobile money trap this shit up even more. You want to do more raid pulls? Sorry, have to wait 8 days or purchase 40 additional pulls for only 20$

Sorry, you used up all your mythic dungeon keys, you can purchase another 5 for only 5$

[balmy condor]

honest to god if I could pay money to reroll my fucking m+ key to the level and dungeon I want like a d3 greater rift

I would whale so fucking hard

[balmy condor]

why the fuck does this dogshit game force me to run my 17 vortex pinnacle after I was on vacation for a month

just let me run a 20 brackenhide for my vault

I've timed a 20 brackenhide

why do I need to do a dumbass 17 vortex

fuck you game

[sharp viper]

not like that is of any difference?

[balmy condor]

brackenhide's not that bad now

[cobalt hemlock]

i really wished they tried one season without keys depleting to see what would happen

[gusty mirage]

dw they know what would happen

and the system works great

that's literally the entire d3 end game

they just copied it over and made it worse for god knows what reason

if you fail a greater rift 100, you don't have to go run a 99 to get back to 100, you just open a new GR100 and run it

[spice spire]

[cobalt hemlock]

can someone else ruin your rift run tho

[gusty mirage]

yes

after a few deaths

it starts tacking time onto your timer

[cobalt hemlock]

but we agree its a good thing you dont have to run the 99 instead of the 100 right

[gusty mirage]

100%

[quiet oar]

Yeah deeting keylevel is outdated af

[cobalt hemlock]

it would reduce the toxicity of m+ by so much and i also think it would increase the ammount of keys run

also reduce gatekeeping

[vestal wren]

best way is to use the text file from #tc-research (pins) to compare

[versed mica]

Good to know, though I already simmed myself at this point

I appreciate the response tho

[floral shoal]

It would increase the amount of keys started. If keys don't deplete people would restart at the smallest mistake. Great for your steady group, but it would be disastrous for pugs. If you have big problems with toxic pugs (somehow I do not) I can't imagine it getting any better with non depleting keys.

[balmy condor]

I don’t see how though

If a toxic pug group thinks the run is over, dude hearths and the key rips

Regardless of if the key depleted or not

[royal lantern]

bonus points if they start lecturing everyone why they suck while doing it

[vestal wren]

just wait for 10.1.7

so people can ping you on cd in addition to that

[rotund oak]

a tank with 4 macros ping group 1 2 3 4

[cobalt hemlock]

not the average person which this is for

[cobalt hemlock]

yes but at least you dont get kicked while down you waste time and now you have to waste time to try not get fucked over again?

[balmy condor]

Yeh exactly

Idk to me it’s basically exactly like the 3 chest system from legion

In legion you +3 the key you got 3 chests of loot

And they got rid of that shit

Cause you would have farm groups who would break if you couldn’t 3 chest

Cause it would be too slow

It’s just the same thing now without it

Time a key, get extra loot

Time a key, your level goes up

Don’t want to complete the key untimed to have to run another key at that level, or worse, not complete it at all and go down a level

Idk, just delete the keystone entirely, walk up to the dungeon you want to do, and you’re able to start a dungeon at +1 your max completed

If you’ve done a 29, great, you get to try a 30

Default everyone to +15 max at the start of a season

And then let people climb from there

You’d still have people doing all the dungeons for score

You’d still have people doing all the dungeons for gear

The people who want to farm the fastest dungeon for vault or crests can do that without getting bricked keys for some impossible dungeon

Everyone wins

[cobalt hemlock]

right now im confused if you agree or disagree with me xd

[balmy condor]

In a perfect world where there aren’t absolute cancer affixes that make your key like 3 levels harder, you would make the affixes random on entry as well

[balmy condor]

Wdym, I’m obviously agreeing. No keystone to deplete, you choose the dungeon, not the keystone

[cobalt hemlock]

i thought so but for some reason usually when i make the exact same point people still disagree

[balmy condor]

That’s cause they like the pain of m+ I guess

Masochists

[cobalt hemlock]

mmo players addicted to getting their time wasted

[balmy condor]

M+ system is just objectively bad

[keen spruce]

key depleting basically kills all pugging late in the season

it just becomes so stressful and annoying

even with like, mid-high level groups

[balmy condor]

Imagine if the multi day great push stuff wasn’t on tournament realm

[keen spruce]

you fuck up a few keys and your team is left with like 4x uld worth no score

and it's like "okay I guess we're just done for the week

[cobalt hemlock]

worst part you dont even have to fuck up

[balmy condor]

The cancer of like “we need a 30 brackenhide for score” but no one having a brackenhide, and then needing to run 29’s on random fucking keys no one needs until you happen to rng into a brackenhide

That’s so ass

[cobalt hemlock]

you can just invite a random person who leaves after he dies 3 times to a mechanic and now you get the fucked over

[balmy condor]

I had a guild group doing keys at the start of the season when brackenhide was still overtuned to hell

Everyone having fun

And then the dreaded “I’m going to bed”

“Oh just one more key”

“Okay what key”

Everyone just had cancer

3 brackenhides a vortex and an uldaman or something

And everyone just kinda went “ehhh………..”

We didn’t do a key

[marble hemlock]

Idk, to me it's kinda simple. Overall one has 2 embellishments and great vault. Raid one has no great vault, m+ one will be full 441/no great vault.

[vestal wren]

would need a system to decide on key level

you don't want to always do the max key levels

[balmy condor]

Yes

You walk up to the dungeon you want to do

And you pick the level

Up to a max of +1 of your max

[vestal wren]

esp. in a guild, you might want to just do some lower keys depending on the experience and skill level of your peers

[royal lantern]

[balmy condor]

If you timed a 25

You can do a +2 if you want

But only a max of 26

[vestal wren]

but +1 any system that gives you more control is amazing

[balmy condor]

Basically just delete keystones, and make the pillars you socket the keystones into a drop down menu instead where you pick the level and you just go

[royal lantern]

just stop at the "delete keystones" part

[cobalt hemlock]

that would be great but i think they would make that a new exp bit. delete depleting could be tried in a normal season imo

[royal lantern]

i mean

blizz did so many things to make m+ experience worse

key rerolling etc...

cus apperantly it was a big problem that people......decided that they didnt want to run a shit key and take a -1 to get something else

[vestal wren]

we had a discussion in outlaw the other day about mindsooth

because it is completely understandable why they changed it

but it made me think about true sight again, and idk if the concept of it is rly good

[royal lantern]

like

the mindsoothe change is right cus it was way to strong

but also kinda tone deaf

cus

blizz, think WHY people use mindsoothe

[vestal wren]

mindsooth was strong because it did negate truesight to a degree

so the fix makes complete sense

true sight was introduced to not allow you this skips

so cheakmate

[royal lantern]

then why even make %

just make dungeons a tunnel again

[vestal wren]

^ exactly, this was my train of thoughts

why was truesight put in in the first place

and why is it used so much

[royal lantern]

like

if you dont want people to skip specific packs cus MUH RP or shit like that

make them worth a sh9itton %

[vestal wren]

i think it would be fine if it was used with caution

so maybe there is a mob in one of the dungeons that makes sense to be not skipable

but this would mean we had a low amount of mobs overall still

[quiet oar]

I mean some. Dungeons are like that

Where you have little to none ability to vary

And thats Bad imo

For m+

[royal lantern]

it was more of "why even give the illusion if you dont want us to skip some packs"

OR

dont make ultra shity packs

🙂

[balmy condor]

Legion dungeons had like 300% in them except maw

You could giga pull and skip packs as you wanted

Which I think was a lot more fun and interesting

[royal lantern]

yeha idk

blizz went really hard into "play like WE want" in the last 3 expansion

m+ beeing turned more and more into Hold W

strong class buffs and scrolls/drums removed so people need to take them instead of taking a weaker option etc.....

[vagrant obsidian]

!sheet

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[quiet oar]

Wasnt sl fairly Open

[azure flare]

No

Not at all it was worse

💀

[subtle tundra]

Torghast 💀 maw 💀 korthia

[cobalt hemlock]

shadowlands ptsd

[sour elm]

hey all 🙂

Im a bit confused on this part - am I just sending everything on CD? Im not quite sure what I am holding for what and when

[frozen iris]

The faq explains it pretty well, can you ask specifically what you are not understanding?

[sour elm]

I think its the vanish piece; like sepsis just send on CD; but do I send vanish on the 2nd DM or 3rd?

[frozen iris]

You generally want to hold vanish until your 2nd deathmark

[deft flicker]

Cooldown usage might change based on encounter timings, but usually:

• Deathmark on cooldown (save Vanish to make sure empowered garrotes are active all the time Deathmark is active)
• Sepsis on cooldown (first empowered garrote consumed at once, second one is held until the buff is about to expire). Sepsis garrotes count as empowered and might clip into your Deathmark (and maybe even fully cover it, in that case Vanish isn’t needed)
• Shiv is held for Sepsis (1 charge) and Deathmark (2 charges)

[sour elm]

ahh ok that helps a lot

so basically we are only using vanish if we dont' have a sepsis imp garrote then for DM

[royal lantern]

bro korthia is so cool bro

its like the maw....BUT with some dead tree's

[subtle tundra]

And it was cool af cause you spent 2hr daily running around mindlessly

People only accepted it as it was cause the thing before it was the maw

[frozen iris]

I wouldn’t say only but yes

[cobalt hemlock]

korthia has to be THE worst zone blizzard has ever done

[sour elm]

heard thanks guys - did some test dummy work and I think that helped a lot

[frozen iris]

The maw area in general is awful

[cobalt hemlock]

yeah but that one is supposed to be awfull its designed is to be awfull its the hell of wow

[sour elm]

I see your korthia, but raise you Desmotaeron

or perdition hold

fuck I hate the maw

[cobalt hemlock]

eh if we were allowed mounts it would be completely fine

[sour elm]

Zereth mortis was a breath of fresh air after 2.5 patches of the maw

[deft flicker]

Mounts were allowed later on

[cobalt hemlock]

and it was fine at least for me

korthia wasnt supposed to be awfull and it was and its much smaller than the maw

[sour elm]

I think korthia launch was when blizz had the SA scandal too - it was just generally a rough time

I know my guild at the time lost like 40% of our roster in that patch

[cobalt hemlock]

lets all just try to forget shadowlands happened

and that was the first exp i got into wow

[royal lantern]

ICC exists

[cobalt hemlock]

i said worst

[royal lantern]

hard to be worse then "dark blue ice with soem undead sprinkled in and nothing else at all to do"

[cobalt hemlock]

it fits the theme

[clever sapphire]

wait there were trees in korthia?

[sour elm]

I have a special hatred for korthia trees

stupid little items you had to collect up in the branches

[subtle kiln]

korthia was fine. plenty to do. zone was active and almost always plenty of other players around.

you should have be able to solve the “tree puzzles” after a few goes

[burnt latch]

korthia would've been fine if the 252 conduits could be acquired from somewhere else

felt too mandatory

[subtle kiln]

that’s not the zone design

that’s the system they added

[near valley]

Zone coloring looked like shit tbh

[burnt latch]

well no, but its the incentive why most PvE focused people played it

[near valley]

Also the raid not even being in the new zone but all the way in shit creek parts of the maw didn't help

[subtle kiln]

“define most”. there is plenty of non raiding people that had a boat load of stuff to collect in the zone.

[near valley]

Mounts

[subtle kiln]

people still running rifts like crazy

[burnt latch]

I meant people who care about raid performance and do content thats related to that

[near valley]

[subtle kiln]

so not raid logging. got it.

[burnt latch]

thats the issue

people who wanted to raid log couldnt

and thats why the zone left a sour taste in a lot of these peoples mouth

[subtle kiln]

you can now and game feels dead. so what’s better?

[burnt latch]

dead to you maybe, game hasnt felt better in ages for me

[subtle kiln]

do you actively play the game more than 1-2 nights of raid?

just wondering. not judging

[burnt latch]

yeah when i've got time

some weeks i dont, some i do

[long pecan]

Incoming basic-noob question. Pls dont make fun.

What poisons should i use in m+ or raid?

Atro, Deadly

Àmplifying?

[clever sapphire]

numbing usually better in m+ than atro

besides that deadly and amp

[long pecan]

Ye ok

[clever sapphire]

insta is just a worse amp

[long pecan]

Ok 🙂 Ty

[slate crown]

Tooltip clarification, does this mean it consumes up to 10 stacks, and increases damage by 35% at 10 stacks? Or 35% per stack? I assume the former, but just wanted to check

[spice surge]

The former

[slate crown]

Thx, yeah the latter would be absurd

[spice surge]

But when you have deathmark on the target they have an extra amp poison debuff

[slate crown]

ahh

[spice surge]

So then it will do 82.25% more damage

Since 1.35 x 1.35 = 1.8225

[onyx crane]

That's racist!

[quiet oar]

Wasnt it Dutch?

[clever sapphire]

google translate confirmed, its dutch

[quiet oar]

Yeah thought so

Because i could understand it

To some degree

[keen spruce]

nerfed sarky, 2 absences

probably pulling with 19

[gilded oasis]

[runic hinge]

I’ll come

Me, a rogue, who’s never seen M Kazzarah and is also very mid in heroic.

[silk bane]

dude i swear sin boss damage is not that bad in keys

[brazen zodiac]

you, a cute rogue

[runic hinge]

[pulsar dirge]

@ironskyreaver Compared to sub and outlaw is laughable how much st you lose . I play the 3 specs for fun at 20-22 range , assa st is driving me insane . Also cause I feel thats the one thing the spec always could excel over the others in keys .

[silk bane]

how much do you do single target with sub without aug

and no beacon because thats kinda its own thing

i used to do anywhere from 110-115 before aug with beacon, much less without ebacon.

sins like 5-6k off its not awful

its proabably higher now that I have moer gear (on sub) but idk sins fun

[keen spruce]

our ww showed up

[runic hinge]

You’re saved from me then

[subtle kiln]

are you actually comparing it to fury’s boss dmg?

[silk bane]

nope sub boss damage without aug

its like 10k less its w./e

[silk bane]

but like, this is with aug

not abd

[runic hinge]

PI too?

[silk bane]

no neims a pi goblin

[runic hinge]

Or that on the dk

lol

[vestal wren]

didn't know details name had such a generouse character limit

[balmy condor]

There’s a weakaura to extend it

That’s how they do it in my guild at least

[silk bane]

^ its a weakaaura to extend it

[vestal wren]

fair

[snow kindle]

doesnt sub already blast in keys

ST cause we lost almost nothing

but sin loses blindside and the execute

[vale mulch]

But with sin you get to keep doing damage while dodging boss mechanics

[void mesa]

just as much as the other specs?

Sin is good with downtime is a myth, dont buy into that

[spice surge]

Youre not applying poisons or hitting envenoms when youre not hitting the boss

[vale mulch]

But your bleeds are

And the poisons you already applied are

[spice surge]

So is sub

[void mesa]

Sub also has Rupture yeah

[vale mulch]

Plus you can apply poison via throwing knives

[void mesa]

pls dont do that D:

[snow kindle]

what am i reading lol

[spice surge]

Like ye sure assa only loses 85% of its damage when out of range rather than 90%

[vale mulch]

That’s what I’m saying!

[spice surge]

But its still absolutely dogshit to be out of range

So it doesnt matter

[void mesa]

Throwing Knives is "okay" at best if youre about to cap on energy

[spice surge]

Its not like in previous expansions like bfa where you only lost like 50%

Now its just such a minor difference that its not worth mentioning

[vale mulch]

Ok then

[spice surge]

Assa needs restealths in m+
Assa is good at dealing with downtime
Outlaw is just pure rng
Sub has good funnel

All myths that hasnt been updated since bfa

[void mesa]

All rogues are pure RNG, my beacon will never crit

[woeful meteor]

Does throwing knife reset amp poison stacks like it does wound?

[void mesa]

It can apply amp and deadly yeah

[woeful meteor]

never looked at it and it's pretty irrelevant, but would make using knife even worse

not the applying part

when you throw knife with wound poison it always resets to 1 stack

[void mesa]

oh

that ive not seen or tested

that would be troll af xd

[woeful meteor]

if it's the same with amp

[void mesa]

9 stacks, need downtime, throw knife, reset to 1, cry xd

[woeful meteor]

time to throw knife at dummy

I'll report back in a minute

[void mesa]

Wish I'd be home to laugh at the one rogue throwing knives on a dummy

[bold drum]

dw people are gonna acknowledge the fact that rogues have infact changed

[void mesa]

People may aknowledge rogue in 10.2 guys, I'm sure we'll be good

[spice surge]

Its not

Or rather, its not the same with amp

[woeful meteor]

just tested aswell

pve players stay winning

[void mesa]

Rogue and winning
Hol' up here buddy

[woeful meteor]

it's so troll for pvp, need to throw so they dont kite without crippling, but loose your heal reduce

[clever sapphire]

beat an arms and an enha in overall by 20k in a 20 vortex (didnt time it), they ask after key if its a dmg issue or pathing

should i tell them that if im 20k ahead in overall its a dmg issue

or be nice

[void mesa]

Just block and move on x)

[silk bane]

why bully someone who clearly doesnt ahve fingers?

[clever sapphire]

true dat

gonna tell them its a tank issue

and he pulled too slow

[vestal wren]

i am on the funnel

[worn fossil]

i just got bomb dispenser, do you guys bind that into something or just press it manually?

[void mesa]

If you only have one on-use trinket, you can macro it, but meh

I personally always manual cast it

[uncut dragon]

macro to your finisher, you can hold off a finisher for a few seconds so you can drop your beacon on cooldown.

[keen spruce]

you should have a trinket 1 and a trinket 2 keybind

but if it's your only on use

then you can macro it to w/e

but just bad habits idk

[clever sapphire]

i also macrod bomb, sicne my trinket 1 and 2 are ctrl+3 and ctrl+5, i didnt make the keybinds with a 25 sec trinket in mind

[keen spruce]

well not really bad habit

mine's shift 2

not too bad

[clever sapphire]

ye my 2 are kinda shit for trinkets i would need to use often

[keen spruce]

i mean if you're only runing one on use

it don't really matter

[clever sapphire]

i have ctrl 1-5 keybinds but for mostly stuff that are not used often

[keen spruce]

just macro it to everythign

just not garrote

cuz you'll throw a bomb before your first global and knock yourself out of stealth

[fresh kelp]

For lethals in AoE do I use, amp+deadly?

[clever sapphire]

you always use those 2

[burnt latch]

The amount of times you dont fail something is the times of the amount it takes for everyone to gain control of situation

[near valley]

Should put that on a shirt

[past forum]

In regards to bomb + other on use, I actually prefer to still macro bomb into a rotational ability but also have that same ability keybound on its own elsewhere. That way I can completely forget about bomb other than the 10s before a beacon cast

Doesn’t matter tho cause I’m about to get a cool stat trinket from my vault that sims higher than those dogshit damage trinkets

[gloomy knoll]

Is rogue good in m+ still?

[gusty mirage]

sub is yes

outlaw is solid too

why would you ask this in assassination esra

[quiet oar]

[toxic night]

assa best m+ spec in the game

[grand trail]

[quiet oar]

I mean Zerocool Timed a 29 uldaman

Literally OP spec

[river ember]

I certainly am not arguing sin is nuts in keys necessarily but I don’t feel like it’s as bad as people think.

I think it’s a ton more work though to play the spec well compared to sub or outlaw in m+

[gloomy knoll]

Looked like least dead channel 💀

I saw some people talking about dragon rants so I was just curious if rogues still meta / good

[quiet oar]

Are you na?

Lotus

[past forum]

I feel like 1 or more aoe tools they gave to feral should have been given to sin instead/as well.

[quiet oar]

Because on European Day time All channels are fairly active

[misty holly]

Not meta. Rogues are okay, though. Could be worse.

[gloomy knoll]

Yuh

[gaunt moat]

@keen spruce how was raid today
I forgot to watch

[keen spruce]

decent

still many subs

2 new people

i think we got to like 40%

but i'm runnin sark cloak and rage pot now after the nerfs

so that's nice

[balmy condor]

[deft quiver]

Quick sim related question:

Top ST sim takes 2 points in Zoldyck, but if I swap out Shrouded Suffocation for an additional point in Zoldyck, its a 500 dps loss in Patchwerk, but a 5,000 dps gain in Execute Patchwerk. I'm prepping Sin for M Sark for reference, which would be huge to have a great execute.

Why wouldn't I want to make this swap? I must be missing something.

[balmy condor]

because execute isn't actually important on sark

everything is fully timed

so any extra damage you do earlier in the fight will translate into a lower % you enter the last phase on

having more execute dps ends up being an illusion of better execute when in reality you're better off just doing more overall damage

[deft quiver]

Does the Patchwerk profile include execute range health as well, or just 100% health at all times?

[balmy condor]

yes

all sim types include execute range

except target dummy obviously, that's designed to be at 100% all the time

[deft quiver]

Ah, I see. That's what I was missing. I thought Patchwerk was just 100% health 5-min fight, im an idiot

Thanks for clearing that up. I agree with your explanation as well.

[balmy condor]

also shrouded just feels better to play and helps with add damage as well when you're cleaving

[strange trail]

do we macro the bomb trinket to any ability?

[balmy condor]

if you're only using 1 on-use, you can

[strange trail]

what would I macro it to?

[balmy condor]

whatever makes you happiest

[solid mica]

You must hate your healers

[drifting cloud]

by that logic you must hate your whole guild with 400 wipes on sark

[royal lantern]

you dont?

[quiet oar]

Healers are bored outside of p1 and late p3 on sarka

[clever sapphire]

being a mage is legit broken, i dont even have gear and i get invited to 11 keys, my 430 feral doesnt get invited there

[quiet oar]

Damn mages

[cobalt hemlock]

you just get invite cuz you have hero

[quiet oar]

Took our Jobs

[cobalt hemlock]

in rework give bl to rogues

[clever sapphire]

give us bl and br

remove shroud for all i care

[cobalt hemlock]

hell ye

[clever sapphire]

not like skipping exists

[quiet oar]

And while we are at it

Give a summ stone Gate and healthstones

[cobalt hemlock]

tbh they really should just as a qualit of life change not even talking rogue everyone

warlocks can have soul stone gates and healthstones

[quiet oar]

Another class should get summ stone and gate

I can See smth like Gate for rogue

Mass shadowstep smth like that

But no way

[clever sapphire]

we just build a tunnel, and they climb out of the tunnel

[cobalt hemlock]

thats more of a in fight you summon people as convenience thats why it woudnt affect the class in meta really

you dont invite a warlock to m+ cuz they can summon for raid yes and thats why we need to give it to everyone

[quiet oar]

Yeah summstones at every Boss

[cobalt hemlock]

or that and also respawn in front of the bosses when you release

[clever sapphire]

it would just be a qol change to not have to run 5 minutes after every wipe

because warlock forgot to soulstone

[cobalt hemlock]

no reason its not in the game already

[clever sapphire]

also i love how hard trash is in the current raid, i have had so many lfr groups disband on the way to a boss

[cobalt hemlock]

HUH

i mean trash should there just to give more flavor and to make you feel you are actually in a raid nothing else

[clever sapphire]

it does, i do feel like im in a raid, cause everything is scary

[cobalt hemlock]

lol

[clever sapphire]

Can we get halondrus as a trash mob

[brave gazelle]

Trash isn't hard huh

[clever sapphire]

Tell that to pugs

[brave gazelle]

Aye well most pugs couldn't organise a piss up in a pub so 😭

[clever sapphire]

Exactly

I have been in hc/normal pugs that disbanded on either assault or the double flame guy

Pugs are wild

[brave gazelle]

F in chat

HC I semi get but It boggles my mind how bad at normal some pugs are

[clever sapphire]

I have pugged on all my chars since im not in a guild

So i have had my fair share of experiences

Kinda hardens your mental when going through so much shit

[ripe tree]

we ended up 3 healing sark

[quiet oar]

Ye

[hearty reef]

Aight cook me a build without RC and sepsis and i play assa

[gusty mirage]

do you want to play echoing reprimand without RC?

because that's fucking weird

[hearty reef]

With rc i meant the whole package

[gusty mirage]

why would you want to play shadow dance as assassination

lol

[hearty reef]

[burnt latch]

can also choose cold blood

[gusty mirage]

to press ambush instead of mutilate?

[burnt latch]

big envenoms

[gusty mirage]

for less CP

and less poison procs?

because it sure as fuck aint the imp garrote uptime

because sepsis and vanish cover that well enough

[spice spire]

TTB/AP/bind cold blood with shiv

[gusty mirage]

rip council build from vault

[blazing jewel]

Sin without er

[burnt latch]

[gusty mirage]

I mean ER is whatever

[spice spire]

Yeah I hated that lmfao

[gusty mirage]

but when your other option is shadow dance

and an absolutely useless find weakness 2 pointer

kinda weird

[hearty reef]

ER

[burnt latch]

AP must be like

top 5 worst feeling talents

[gusty mirage]

nah feels fine

it really does

[burnt latch]

i hate everything about it

[blazing jewel]

ER makes sin energy management so much better

[gusty mirage]

you push shiv get full CP

banger

just shiv does fuck all damage, and the bleed amp is also mediocre

[spice spire]

Banger? I hardly know er!

[burnt latch]

i did like 3 dungeons with it when it came out

was it in 1.0.5

[gusty mirage]

I'm sorry for your loss

[burnt latch]

10.0.5

and decided i aint about this

[gusty mirage]

I played it like 3 times on council

lol

[burnt latch]

dont think i killed council once as assa

[blazing jewel]

Wasn’t sin actually good on council

[gusty mirage]

not really

all the rogue specs were kinda meh on council

4T cleave isn't exactly wahoo for sub either

prolly decent for outlaw

[burnt latch]

its supposed to be good for outlaw

but yeah

[gusty mirage]

• melee on council

[blazing jewel]

That fight was actually impossible to get a good parse on

[gusty mirage]

with the marks & DHs existing

pepelaf

[burnt latch]

never got close to r1 tho

we always had one mf staying alive for like 30 seconds beating the tanks with a stick doing no mechanic

even cleave is hard

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

I'm also hard when I see you

wait what

[burnt latch]

[spice spire]

[blazing jewel]

My highest was 97

Shit.net

[burnt latch]

just gotta press boon

[blazing jewel]

[gusty mirage]

[burnt latch]

[blazing jewel]

Hemorrhoid speed run

[burnt latch]

thats the old sub spell wrong channel

[blazing jewel]

[gusty mirage]

lmao got em

kyle you IDIOT

[blazing jewel]

Brain has no wrinkles your words slide right past it

[gusty mirage]

[burnt latch]

no wrinkles, no bumps, no valleys, JUST STRAIGHT GAS

[gusty mirage]

that's a good rebuttal

[blazing jewel]

Bro who gave the Pepe an asshole for a mouth what the fuck

[gusty mirage]

wtf

do you only see gaping assholes?

[burnt latch]

[gusty mirage]

bro you good?

[blazing jewel]

Possibly

[gusty mirage]

miami changes a mfer ig

[burnt latch]

the eye of sauron

[blazing jewel]

Bro we’re in the sin channel

None of us are good

[gusty mirage]

wdym this is the best channel on this discord server

we're fucking gamers

[burnt latch]

idk bout that

[blazing jewel]

[gusty mirage]

you gonna go to outlaw and watch people jerk each other off over dungeon overall?

[burnt latch]

we're something alright

[gusty mirage]

or sub and join the cry about augvoker hour?

we shit post and OT in here minus miz posting tweets and kpop gifs

this is literally the best channel onthis server

[blazing jewel]

OT sometimes okay

[burnt latch]

OT2

[blazing jewel]

[gusty mirage]

it's so good stealthi and eleem pop in from time to time

speaking of which @earnest remnant did you sleep yet

[woeful meteor]

r1 lower than basically all your kills

[gusty mirage]

mfer was wide awake at 5am his time

[blazing jewel]

Peak wow hours

[burnt latch]

assa cranking

[vestal wren]

don't summon the deamon

[blazing jewel]

augvoker augvoker augvoker augvoker augvoker

[gusty mirage]

you will keep that shit out of my channel scath

[earnest remnant]

[short notch]

hey

[runic hinge]

Facts

Could be the best discord channel in all servers

Also oxi I’m 5-1 in my work league now. One match to win to be in the championship playoff

[spice surge]

[void mesa]

this channel is the best channel and you cant change my mind

outlaw feels weird

[pine ore]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gilded oasis]

I felled off top 10 region sin rogue

[floral saddle]

How do we use shiv in raids when playing with 2 stacks? Holding 1 stack always for sepsis and using the other whenever we would get a new stack or do we use that with any other spell?

[void mesa]

Keep for DM/Sepsis, send whenever otherwise

[floral saddle]

alright. thank you

[formal dune]

hello sorry if its been said before, but i'm not able to find any information - is there any caps in regards to get to X amount of crit, and X amount of mastery / haste etc? or any numbers to aim for?

[void mesa]

Just listen to robot

Cap is a myth for the most part

[formal dune]

ah ok thats fine then, i just thought i might have missed something, thank you.

[void mesa]

All good nw

[sudden canyon]

when can i get AI to play the game for me so i can just show off my parses.

[gilded oasis]

you can, you just might get banned

[sudden canyon]

i used to use honorbuddy to do my LFR's durring WoD

the dream

i miss that

also my Legion dailys (untill i got banned)

[gaunt moat]

@keen spruce When does the raid start?

I need something to watch while grinding Diablo

[clever sapphire]

Diablo so fun, you need to watch something to have fun

[gilded oasis]

I miss my buddy

[blazing jewel]

is there shmeeps content today

[gaunt moat]

They usually raid sat/sun i think

[gaunt moat]

It's one of those game where you can turn off your brain. So that works well for me right now.

[keen spruce]

5 min

@gaunt moat

[gaunt moat]

pog

[grand trail]

?? 😄

[void mesa]

[ancient rain]

hopefully those are the new icons for the assassination rework

[snow kindle]

when does 10.7 get announced

[gilded oasis]

when you least expect it

[snow kindle]

excellent

[gaunt moat]

probably next week my guess

[strange python]

yay a Nick of time finally when I'm finally at Sark prog xD

[silk bane]

wait that wa for sin is out??? does it have the sound and stuff too?

[grand trail]

ask shmeeps on his stream

[strange niche]

sims do work for the buff right?

[sweet dawn]

Yeah they're updated afaik

[cobalt hemlock]

starting my prog for M sark wish me luck boys

because i will definitely need it

any tips for the fight?

[silk bane]

make sure to spam this clip to your healers in p1

[wide ridge]

didnt sin have hemorrhage during legion as a lv15 talent?

[balmy condor]

hemo was a sub talent in wod

[burnt latch]

Wouldnt know

[balmy condor]

got removed in legion

[balmy condor]

hm

I dont remember hemo in legion

I'm prolly tweakin

it was on sub tho

[blazing jewel]

Replaced sinister strike

[balmy condor]

game was wild back then brother

[blazing jewel]

Didn’t sub use nightblade

Wouldn’t that not even work then

[balmy condor]

nightblade wasn't until legion

that comment was written in mop

legion is 7.0

[blazing jewel]

Mop looked so fun

[balmy condor]

I'm so deep in the weeds

reading blue posts from 6.0 beta

all of those spell# are broken links to things wowhead can't find in the database anymore

some of these changes are wild though

like just thinking about it 9 years later

[blazing jewel]

If tricks still had a damage amp

[marble hemlock]

hunger for blood

consume bleed, get 5% dmg amp

[near valley]

Tricks on a dev evoker on pull

[blazing jewel]

No we hate dragons

[frigid kestrel]

I missed tricking my fellow rogue because of a damage amp

Wasnt that the thing in Wrath? Or was that Cata

?

Whoever your ToTed had a damage increase?

[marble hemlock]

cata

http://puu.sh/JOHtr/f74f39c239.jpg

i miss this one

[near valley]

Wtf

[frigid kestrel]

Omg yes

[marble hemlock]

pvp as a caster was very fun

[near valley]

What kind boomer talent was this?

[marble hemlock]

wotlk

they actually changed it for wotlk classic cuz of how busted it was

[near valley]

Understandable

You'd just not be able to cast

[frigid kestrel]

We had that, disarm, Kidney, and a gang of other shit if I remember correctly. It was one of the very few times I actually PvPed and was decent

[near valley]

Thr olden days sounded good

[frigid kestrel]

Just make things not be able to attack ever

[near valley]

I know understand where the "rogue is broken" sentiment started appearing from

[wide ridge]

fok aoe interrupted? wtff

[vestal wren]

damn, 10.2 changes dropped

[vestal wren]

i did like deathly throw

[wide ridge]

they should soon tho

[vestal wren]

probably yes

[balmy condor]

M+ rogue meta for sure

This time for real

[marble hemlock]

like all the other seasons except this one?

[wide ridge]

i dont remember rogues being meta season 4 bfa

with the seasonal affix, the pillars one

shroud wasnt needed anymore

now shroud isnt needed at all

[vestal wren]

in part because of true vision

[near valley]

Where is true stealth blizz???

[wide ridge]

holy based

[vestal wren]

funnily enough

[wide ridge]

isnt mage invisible ability like true stealth

[vestal wren]

given that subtlety has 3 versions of stealth

we sometimes refer to one of them as true stealth

[near valley]

Why must you guys be so extra?

[wide ridge]

subterfuge, shadow dance and stealth?

[vestal wren]

well there is the regular stealth

then there is improved vanish

and shadow dance

also it isn't subtlety exclusiv anymore, all 3 of them are cross spec now

[wide ridge]

oh true

[near valley]

What's the difference between regular stealth and improved vanish stealth?

[vestal wren]

thre are even more layers now because you have subterfuge and improved garrote

[wide ridge]

doesnt break on dmg

[near valley]

Besides the condition to activate

Oh yeah

[wide ridge]

wait but all 3 specs have the non break dmg stealth from vanish, maybe fuu means something else

[vestal wren]

improve vanish does not break as easy

also you get true stealth if you wait for it to drop after using vanish

[near valley]

Huh

https://tenor.com/view/the-more-you-know-gif-26317296

[vestal wren]

also to confuse you further

true stealth removes shadow dance

[near valley]

Is that intended?

[vestal wren]

yes

it is a relic because of a interaction in legion

that allowed us to protect stealth with shadow dance

this is why you can't use stealth in shadow dance too for example

[wide ridge]

wait, my watery brain cant comprehend this

[near valley]

Some next level cheese this

[vestal wren]

basically

if you use vanish and wait out improved vanish to drop

you get true stealth

there is little diffrence between the two functional tho (improved stealth does not break on damage)

[vestal wren]

yes we did

[marble hemlock]

rogue also just didnt benefit as much from corruption as other classes did

[vestal wren]

subtlety in legion did abuse quite some bugs, but it wasn't only subtlety

assassination ha some spicy bugs too one related to poisons and kingsbane

[wide ridge]

perhaps i think i might have understood it, thanks

[near valley]

Pray tell

[wide ridge]

bro i remember having like 100% haste baseline or something

shit was fun

[near valley]

I do like learning more of rogues nefarious past

[vestal wren]

assassination was the only of the 3 specs that could utialize corruption well

and thats in part because of exsanguinate

[spice surge]

Just like cloak actually has different versions. The first second being a lot stronger than the remaining 4 seconds

[wide ridge]

which will be reworked in 10.2 right

[spice surge]

Its all just very janky

[vestal wren]

subtlety/outlaw both did go with the damage based corruption options typically for that reason

[vestal wren]

exactly

[near valley]

I'll bite

[spice surge]

Like in halls of valor, people said you cant cloak the damage from the runes, but you could if you had big cloak up

[near valley]

Why the hell is this the way it works?

[spice surge]

But not if you had small cloak

[vestal wren]

you can cheese a lot of things with cloak

[spice surge]

big being the first second and small being the latter ones

[vestal wren]

if you time it correct

can even sometimes prevent certain raid mechanics

[spice surge]

Probably some old code stuff to make it easier to remove all magic debuffs when you pressed it

[wide ridge]

goddamn, anywhere i can read on this big cloak thing

[spice surge]

Since it was coded in like 2005/2006

[near valley]

Sp as long as I time my cloak correctly

I'm basically invincible?

Noted

[spice surge]

There isnt much too it, some mechanics you can only cheese with the first second, but most of the time its all the same

[vestal wren]

moments before you realize that all of the boss mechanics on the specific fight are physical

[blazing jewel]

Or their new favorite of having it pierce immunities

[spice surge]

A couple of those the first second of cloak still works on

[vestal wren]

rogue has in general some funky stuff

[marble hemlock]

vanish used to as well

[spice surge]

Like most green poison aoe stuff in neltharions lair

[marble hemlock]

i want my 1sec immunity on vanish back

[vestal wren]

cloak, vanish and evasion all work on specific mechanics but also not consistently everything

[spice surge]

Goes through cloak, but not the first second

[spice surge]

Ye that was pretty wild

[vestal wren]

vanish used to have a very short immunity

[marble hemlock]

just perma staying up on ultraxion

[spice surge]

iFrames

[marble hemlock]

with cloak/vanish

[vestal wren]

https://github.com/SimCMinMax/WoW-BugTracker/issues/1110

^ subterfuge is also still quite 🍝

[polar cape]

pretty sure subterfuge was buged 75% of the time the moment the talent showed up

[wide ridge]

also, why doesnt cloak prevent nature dmg from neltharion's lair first boss? the purple shit on the floor? literally nothing happens

[vestal wren]

from what i remember talking to aethys and some old tcs

subterfuge was a reoccurring actor

[blazing jewel]

Bro I’d actually be a big fan of this

[polar cape]

yeah the subter bugged always came back during somewhat big patch somehow

[blazing jewel]

Make rogue hard again

[vestal wren]

blizz basically hired subterfuge every other xpack to come in and introduce bugs

[near valley]

Subterfuge was actually an Opp?

Living up to its name

[vagrant hearth]

is assassin any good on pvp? or other rogue specs wanna give it try

[near valley]

PvP channel prpbs knows best bud

[blazing jewel]

PvP

[vagrant hearth]

ah ofc

[near valley]

I think it's like A-tier

[gentle burrow]

Yo sin rogues i need an important question answered

[near valley]

Yes I am Sin Rogue

[gentle burrow]

which name is better

i was allegra at first but

i was told its an allergy med in usa

so idk

does allegra fit the sin rogue theme

[near valley]

It is an allergy medicine tbf

[gentle burrow]

i was going for like Allegro, the tempo in orchestras

but a for fem

Allegra

[near valley]

But I don't think it's common enough to be the first thought someone things of

[near valley]

Makes me think of Italian food tbh

[gentle burrow]

does Cadenzza too

technically its Cadenza

[near valley]

Cadenza sounds aight

Seems like a last name more than a first name though idk why

[gentle burrow]

Cadenza means like the solo of an instrument in the last passage of an orchestra

like

[near valley]

But tbh friend either names are good

[gentle burrow]

the last one to play

[near valley]

Most peeps are named something dumb

Like Whispyr

[gentle burrow]

i mean....

[near valley]

Exactly

So ur names are quite normal

[gentle burrow]

is this normal

[near valley]

Just no need to silence the truth

[gentle burrow]

Whispyr goes hard if they are a vulpera or void elf

otherwise nah

[balmy condor]

I was a vulpera

[gentle burrow]

was?

[balmy condor]

went tauren for the 1.2% dps like a loser

[gentle burrow]

cringe

[near valley]

Fat cow named Whispyr

I like it

[gentle burrow]

Whispyr more like Scrym

my main is Yuufi tho i cant say shit

[balmy condor]

I bet thats a crowd favorite at furry conventions

[near valley]

If I buy you a Royale with cheese can we be friends again?

[gentle burrow]

no yuufi is a ff character

well yuffie

youre thinking of yiff

[blazing jewel]

I bet youre a lala

[balmy condor]

I don't think of anything tbf

[gentle burrow]

nah

viera

[blazing jewel]

massive creativity out here

[near valley]

Scanado

[gentle burrow]

wheres Scanah

[balmy condor]

scaNAW CAUSE YOU AINT PLAYING A WARRIOR BROCHACHO

[blazing jewel]

scanaw is very powerful

[near valley]

The fact you have an emote for that has me rollin

[gentle burrow]

the warrior im cooking

[near valley]

Scani

[blazing jewel]

its when I offered to tank and linked my shield from the previous patch

and they linked my logs in guild disc

the new mog setup is objectively bis

[gentle burrow]

get a better mask

[blazing jewel]

was going to buy bonescythe for it but it looks terrible on velf

[near valley]

Ur enchant is giving me aids

[blazing jewel]

its the gpu melter

@balmy condor link tauren mog

[gentle burrow]

wait hol don

[near valley]

But ur a void elf so ur like my favorite human for the next 10 mins

[gentle burrow]

imma post my velf

[blazing jewel]

its almost the same damage as tauren/dwarf without being tauren/dwarf lol

[near valley]

Indeed

Plus discounted mog racial is the true BIS

[earnest remnant]

im just rocking the mega dungeon mog

[near valley]

I'm still rocking tbc s2 glad set till the day I die

[blazing jewel]

stealthi a gpu melter enjoyer

[near valley]

What illusion even is that

Looks like it's trying to make it's way to the next dimension

[blazing jewel]

its a dagger with a built in illusion effect that doesnt turn off others

[blazing jewel]

heart piercing stalactite? I think

[near valley]

Eye-piercing more like

[blazing jewel]

its blinding with mongoose

[near valley]

I expected it to have night fae wings for some reason

[gentle burrow]

so... do i keep allegra then

[near valley]

I think so yes

[gentle burrow]

i guess it makes sense also for a sin rogue

to make u allergic

or idk

[near valley]

Also the yellow daggers have blinded my dark mode only eyes

[gentle burrow]

are those daggers

thought mf was playing dbz

[gentle burrow]

bro

at this point youre dealing blind damage to the boss

[blazing jewel]

we have to bring utility somehow

[near valley]

Feels like I'm gazing into the void

[balmy condor]

Feels like I'm gayzing into the void (dm me address)

[gentle burrow]

how do you even get in stealth with those daggers

[near valley]

[blazing jewel]

@earnest remnant where dh transmog

[near valley]

He just clicks that button I'd assume

BTW 3 more months

[cobalt hemlock]

@blazing jewel you all have to do buckets for prog?

[earnest remnant]

idfk havent played on that char in forever

[blazing jewel]

1 alt semi required

[near valley]

3 more months till you get your warden set from the trading post

Yw for the reminder

[gentle burrow]

this my dh

[blazing jewel]

dragonlands wing enjoyer

[gentle burrow]

i paid for those wings

ill use them in every mog

[blazing jewel]

debating farming out the black angel wings from shadowlands but thats a lot of dead content to do

[near valley]

I regret paying for those wings

[near valley]

Will still buy new expansions epic edition

[gentle burrow]

i actually bought the wings edition bc for me it was cheaper than paying for 1 more month of sub

since it came with 30 days

[earnest remnant]

here it is

havent been logged into

for a long time

[near valley]

Based BT blindfold enjoyer

[blazing jewel]

wasnt that basically your rogue mog from last patch

[near valley]

DH is just rogues with wings tbf

[blazing jewel]

[runic hinge]

I want to play KB

Realz pls

[near valley]

Did you say exsanguinate?

[runic hinge]

[subtle kiln]

[blazing jewel]

[void mesa]

[gentle burrow]

we can give you flagelation

but you have to give us carnage

[gusty mirage]

what are you going to carnage

rupture?

[blazing jewel]

smart rupture

[gentle burrow]

yes.... sadly

but still better than having to rupture single enemies

[void mesa]

Meanwhile sub gets 2 rupture per cast...

[gentle burrow]

imagine if we had carnage and you could rupture twice in a pack

would make sub aoe more interesting

[near valley]

Why would u want to?

[gentle burrow]

bc somehow rupture still a big part of sub rogue

especially with finality

remove rupture from sub

give us sunder armor

[void mesa]

I feel like, Sin should have poisons and bleeds, Sub gets the shadow stuff and Outlaw gets the physical dmg shenanigans

sunder armor goes to outlaw x)

[gentle burrow]

fair fair

[blazing jewel]

the rupture finality stuff is fun on sub

dont @ me for that take

[void mesa]

I agree with that take

[gentle burrow]

@blazing jewel

[void mesa]

@blazing jewel

[gusty mirage]

what if they renamed rupture to nightblade

and made it shadow damage

would you guys feel better about that

[gentle burrow]

would actually pair well with dark brew so yes

wait

am i stupid

[void mesa]

[gentle burrow]

doesnt a talent make rupture shadow already

[void mesa]

hmm

no

[void mesa]

at least partly shadow dmg yeah

[spice surge]

Brew makes all of it shadow damage

But it doesnt work with other shadow damage amps, so its kind of a meme

[void mesa]

(my memory of passive talents you dont interact with is terrible)

[void mesa]

hol up, it changes to shadow dmg and all it does... is to ignore armor??

[spice surge]

Bleeds already ignore armor

[void mesa]

so its only thematic???

sometimes I think I'm at the right middle ground of understanding where I can play at an okay enough lvl and know interactions I need to, but not enough to.... cringe at the wacky interactions backend

[gentle burrow]

it takes 200iq to understand how rogue is intended to work

[gusty mirage]

I just want sub rogues to suffer through nightblade again

16s rupture at max cp

get rekt idiot ninja rogues

[gilded oasis]

[spice spire]

Toxic

[gilded oasis]

toxic is the umber of VP 22s ive depleted

[river ember]

I have a question for you gamers. My mirror of fractured tomorrows is giving me crit rating on my sim. Even though it procs mastery in game when i have mastery runes active. How can I manually change this on raidbots?

Trying to see how different it sims with a mastery proc

[spice surge]

Crit flask most likely

[river ember]

Ah ill try that ty

Should have realized that was active to

[crimson plinth]

Hey guys, not sure if this is the right place to ask. I just finished levelling up my rogue to 70. I’m a new player (started wow a month ago playing fury war.) and I really like rogues in general. I would ideally like to assasination. My questions are: is this the most beginner friendly rogue spec? Is he good in raids or is he more m+ oriented? And is he easy to learn or should I start with another spec first?

[balmy condor]

all the rogue specs have their complications for different reasons and it depends on what you personally find hard

every day someone says that sub is so crazy hard

but it's just a fixed sequence every 25-30 seconds

assassination right now is awful in m+ and great in raids

but rogue also has a fairly sizable talent tree change coming in 10.2

so who knows how the specs will change

[crimson plinth]

Right that’s very helpful. Do these specs share the same stats? Meaning I can change from assassination in raids to sub in m+ for example?

Not that into outlaw cause he is similar to fury from my understanding