assassination

[worn sorrel]

I see, I was amazed when I saw assa had 2 3 pointers

[keen spruce]

and you have no prio damage for totems

cuz no burst

bad dungeon pool, bad talent choices

is the main thing

[worn sorrel]

I see

It just sucks when it's about swapping targets?

[desert inlet]

just beacon the totem ez

[worn sorrel]

Couldnt they just make a "m+ deathmark"?

[balmy condor]

this is just old design, for sure going away in 10.2

[desert inlet]

it for sure kinda sucks, but it's good enough for like 25s
my best overall w/o aug is like 180k which is plenty for lower keys, I'm also missing gear
I do feel like the damage is more pull dependent than just blade flurrying or dance coming back up but I honestly don't play the other two specs much to say for sure

play what you want imo

[worn sorrel]

yeah then it totally does enough damage

how does it do the damage?

[desert inlet]

but sometimes I'll die in a big pull or just not play great and only do like 130k, depends on dungeon too

[keen spruce]

Endwyr

[desert inlet]

[keen spruce]

i like you're youtube channel

holdin it down for ass rogues

[desert inlet]

thank you I have been playing baldurs gate 3 and not uploading anything

[worn sorrel]

Is it all about proper carnages?

[desert inlet]

yeah it's a big part of it

coming out of stealth with one and then another group gets pulled after feels bad

[worn sorrel]

I do agree that sucks as assa

[keen spruce]

spiteful weeks

[worn sorrel]

But assa would work well with proper deathmarks and vanishes in m+ right?

I mean reworks to those abilities

[balmy condor]

do I have to bonk you guys again for spreading restealth propoganda

[worn sorrel]

wdym

[balmy condor]

it's been shown like a billion times over, mathematically and practically that chain pulls/spiteful weeks/generally missing restealths are not a significant factor when considering m+ damage

[desert inlet]

me no math only feelycraft

[balmy condor]

it's one of the biggest community myths for rogue

for like

10 fucking years

[drifting cloud]

no u

[worn sorrel]

that might be true, but it probably still feels bad

[desert inlet]

I really don't get how missing bleeds on extra targets isn't a dps loss tho

[potent topaz]

the real annoyance is not getting IW up without re-stealths

[worn sorrel]

what's IW

!acronysm

[balmy condor]

how are you missing bleeds

[potent topaz]

Iron Wire

[balmy condor]

you're getting more bleeds by chain pulling

not less

[desert inlet]

like if 4 more mobs get pulled in after my IC ones go out

I'd be doing more dam if they got pulled in before I IC'd

[balmy condor]

sure but that's not a chain pull

that's just shit tank not grouping mobs

L

[worn sorrel]

so if im a night elf, should i delay carnage to always have it with stealth?

[desert inlet]

yeah but that's what I was sayin

or chaining when there's like 1 mob left at 2% hp

[balmy condor]

you always carnage on cooldown unless the pack is going to die soon, then you just delay it for the next one

like if mobs are gonna die in 10-15 seconds

no reason to carnage

[worn sorrel]

But imagine your vanish comes up in 5secs, do u delay it?

[balmy condor]

yes ofc

5 seconds is nothing

[worn sorrel]

and NE racial works the same?

[balmy condor]

NE racial you have to hit, wait, enter true stealth

and it only works on trash, not bosses

[worn sorrel]

how long is the wait?

[balmy condor]

like 3 seconds maybe

NE racial honestly kinda doodoo

[desert inlet]

yeah meld is for canceling mechanics

[balmy condor]

the best use for it is usually just getting iron wires out

[worn sorrel]

Then it's only good for when those little chain pulls happen?

[balmy condor]

or cheese yeh

[worn sorrel]

like one mob is 2%hp but it's getting chainpulled so u can meld and open with stealth?

[balmy condor]

you could

[desert inlet]

I'd rather just reeee at my tank

in that scenario

[balmy condor]

yeh

[worn sorrel]

and is there any reason to be tracking any poison?

[balmy condor]

if your tank is chaining right when the mob dies you just scream at the tank

[balmy condor]

nah

[worn sorrel]

not even the envenom one?

[balmy condor]

nah

[worn sorrel]

cool then

[balmy condor]

what would you do with the information

if you have the stacks, W

if you don't have the stacks, you don't I guess

but you can't control it

no point tracking what you can't control

[worn sorrel]

So u envenom a diff target with higher stacks

But I guess it's a very small diff

[balmy condor]

the only situation where tracking poisons could be of any value at all would be if there's like a single target boss, and it spawns adds, and so you rupture/gar the adds, and then swap back to boss, and the adds are less than 5 targets, and because you're tracking poisons you see that you lost the poison application RNG and the add you hit your bleeds on didn't get poisoned, and since the boss is so important, you don't want to fan of knives, but you have to fan of knives to spread the poisons, and then that applies it and you're happy

[worn sorrel]

I see, i wont track any of them then

[balmy condor]

in AoE you're not going to be applying amp poison stacks anywhere near fast enough on targets that you aren't melee-ing in the face

the vast vast vast majority of poison applications come from auto attacks

and between hitting things with gar/rup, refreshing crimson tempest

you're usually going to be capped on amp stacks anyways

[worn sorrel]

And last question, are there alternatives to m+ builds?

Like some little points

[balmy condor]

not really

there's like an alternate thing where you don't play dtb, lose a fuck ton of single target damage, and then take cold blood and claim the AoE will carry you

but it's pretty sus

that would basically be the same as the recommended build, but you drop the middle stuff for arterial instead

[worn sorrel]

dtb?

[balmy condor]

and then in the class tree you drop echoing reprimand for cold blood

[balmy condor]

dragon tempered

[worn sorrel]

found it

man this tree sucks

[balmy condor]

#assassination-faq message

[worn sorrel]

i thought ww was bad

[balmy condor]

there's abbreviations at the top of the faq

[worn sorrel]

and about exsanguinate in aoe? or super troll

[balmy condor]

never run exsang

in any content

[desert inlet]

exsanguinate got taken out back

[worn sorrel]

What I dont get is why it has 3min cd

[balmy condor]

because anything less and it would've been bonkers op

well, before the bug got found

the bug probably kills it

but while it was working, even a 2 min cd would've basically doubled its value

[worn sorrel]

what was the bug?

[balmy condor]

and then you would have to take it in every situation

the bug is that when you exsang -> deathmark

the deathmark doesn't duplicate the exsang's speed up

[worn sorrel]

oh

[balmy condor]

so you get the original bleeds at exsang speed, and then the added duplicated bleed from deathmark is just a regular cast

[worn sorrel]

yeah that sounds so op

[balmy condor]

deathmark should be copying the sped up bleed

so they both have the exsang speed

and it was working like that up until earlier this year

when it just kinda randomly broke

and no one noticed

no related patch note or anything about it

think it was 10.0.5 or 10.0.7

and some backend change just snapped the interaction

[worn sorrel]

and assa started to do trash dps?

in st

[balmy condor]

nah we just changed builds

exsang was only ever like 1% better after the nerf at the start of the expac making it a 3 min cd

[worn sorrel]

I kinda want an aoe exsang

[balmy condor]

I don't think that's as good as you think it might be

[desert inlet]

it'd be cool for padding on weenies

kinda annoying when you have to rebleed everything

[worn sorrel]

It's so you have a "fast bleed" option

[quick idol]

Hi guys, quick question.
During open with IC, is it worth to Improve Garrot 3 targets (and overcap CP) or just let the regular garrot from IC run and start doing normal AoE rotation ?

[balmy condor]

exsang gives damage in the form of speeding up bleeds, but the bleeds don't do more damage, it's just in a shorter time. So the real benefit is that you're getting more regular ticks that you wouldn't have before + some free energy from the new ticks you're getting. AoE exsang wouldn't give you that though, because you would IC->gar->rup->exsang, those would just run out, and you wouldn't be able to maintain enough dots to take advantage of the time you won

so it would barely be a dps upgrade at all

[balmy condor]

if you have 10 target, you can gar 3 times to get it on all of them, but in normal circumstances where IC spreads to all the targets in the pack just go into your rotation

[quick idol]

Super clear !
I’m still struggling in big big pack to see which one doesn’t not have garrot in this super IG window

[balmy condor]

it honestly doesn't matter that much I'm gonna be real

the IC garrotes are more than enough

you can spread past that if you manage to snipe the nameplate

but like

in packs that big you just IC, let it tick, and then should be spamming CT/Env anyways

trying to find the couple of mobs in the pack that maybe didn't get a garrote or a rupture from the IC is just a waste of time

[worn sorrel]

Yeah Im aware, but exsang would be cool to have access to some kind of burst to totems or to make use of bleeds that wont fully tick. More like a QOL ability

[quick idol]

Glad to hear. I’m 2 weeks old assa and I’m tryin to min/max now. I’m around 120k dps on dj so I’m pretty glad. The new Assas is really good compare to the one of DF (tried for two weeks and didn’t like it at all)

[balmy condor]

yeh it had a lot of potential but since it got added in legion it's just been a headache more than anything, either being silly op or unplayable levels of bad. Dragonflight managed to sort of balance it but they had to nerf it from 45 seconds to 3 min and 100% to 80% speed to make that even close to a reality

10.2 is almost assuredly just deleting it or reworking it entirely

[worn sorrel]

only thing I hope for is that assa doesnt get 20sec carnage or smth like that

[keen spruce]

I just really never liked it from day 1

strong or not

[balmy condor]

you play a monk, think of it like Karma on monks

like it could be cool

but most of the time it's just a nightmare

I still have PTSD flashbacks to my windwalker monks in BFA running into mechanics trying to kill themselves for the karma damage

[desert inlet]

me when I play my alt

[worn sorrel]

I liked that tbh

I remember eating frontals on purpose

[balmy condor]

the high level stuff we can take educated guess on regarding changes are basically 3 pointers are for sure gone, exsang is most likely gone, and since we know that the rework is mostly targeting aoe/m+, I would assume carnage is probably changing to fit into that rework

and that carnage assumption would probably be taking power away from carnage

and not buffing it

[worn sorrel]

I just hope assa doesnt become a brainless dot spec like sp/affli

affli is not 100% brainless in dots, but close to it

[balmy condor]

I think assa's safe from that

carnage is doing a lot of heavy lifting

and most likely will need nerfs to fit into the 10.2 changes

which means you'd probably need to dot manually a lot more

[worn sorrel]

I hope so, if assa just becomes "carnage every 20sec then spam CT" im gonna be so sad

[balmy condor]

that's what the spec is right now

[worn sorrel]

but u have to apply bleeds between every carnage

20sec carnage would make it so u always press carnage and never bleed by yourself (except in big pulls)

[balmy condor]

Yeh

You’d be surprised how many brainlets come in here asking for that

Well, they want it to just be fully passive

Because they’re insane

But ya know

[worn sorrel]

tbh I think dot specs will all become that

I saw a Kalamazi video in which he said he wanted the AOE dot from aflli to be every 20sec

so u never have to dot by yourself (it's 30 sec rn)

so affli purely becomes seed spam

[balmy condor]

First mistake there was watching Kalamazi tbh

[worn sorrel]

lmao

Like feral bleeding 2 targets per rake is much better imo

[balmy condor]

Every time I hear “Kalamazi video” I just know the next sentence is going to be some cooked ass take

Without fail

Bro probably wants PI to get buffed because it feels so good to have PI during your cooldowns as a warlock

[balmy condor]

Yeh assa’s probably going in this direction

[shy heron]

I saw a kalamazi video about hekili so what are my stat weights

[worn sorrel]

PI should get hard nerfed at least in m+ tbh

[balmy condor]

You talk like a fledgling chat AI that’s learning to piece together concepts incoherently after being trained on nothing but things that trigger me for the last 25 hours

And I don’t like it

[desert inlet]

someone should make that AI

[worn sorrel]

oh, and would removing deathmark from gcd be that much too ask for?

[desert inlet]

never forget what they took from you

[shy heron]

Sorry for being a rock in your sock but I felt a spiritual need of if that's ok

[worn sorrel]

Why did they also change the icon tho

[desert inlet]

you could change it back to vendetta icon in your WAs if you wanted

I've thought about it

[worn sorrel]

Do u know if the macro list still have vendetta icon?

[desert inlet]

it should, I have it as my Assasination item set icon

[quick idol]

Vendatta was better than death mark ?

[desert inlet]

and I think they're the same pool

[worn sorrel]

I ll look for it later then, new icon is very weak imo

[desert inlet]

yeah it does

just changed mine lol

there's also an addon that lets you search the icons

[balmy condor]

yes that is too much to ask for

the entire point of reworking vendetta was to have a cooldown on the gcd

that was the design intent of the change

so removing it from the gcd would just be the opposite of what they set out to do when they made deathmark

[desert inlet]

stinky change off gcd felt good

[worn sorrel]

It just feels so bad in aoe

[balmy condor]

yeh that's just assa idk

assa has always been the "my main cooldown is single target"

[worn sorrel]

But assa has so much potential tho

Aoe shiv shadow dance CB

Or even exs

[balmy condor]

please don't wish cold blood into existence

I'd rather kill myself

[worn sorrel]

It d also be good to get a 40sec cd vendetta or so for those fights in which u have to swap targets no?

[desert inlet]

I'm actually so glad dance sin didn't become a thing

[balmy condor]

dance sin 10.2 surely

[desert inlet]

no pls

[balmy condor]

as long as it's not cold blood

we're chillin

[worn sorrel]

I dont think those disrupt the gameplay much,no?

[balmy condor]

dance itself is fine

but cold blood is some fucked shit

[worn sorrel]

Why tho?

[desert inlet]

make cold blood work on rupture

[worn sorrel]

Isnt it just press and forget?

[balmy condor]

cause it doesn't work on bleeds

and you have to like think about it

you can't just macro it

[silk bane]

thats awful then no? if this buttons entire existence is to be macrod in and forgotten, then thats just design failure no?

[balmy condor]

like you could cold blood the hit part of CT

but if you play arterial you don't do that

or you could cold blood an envenom

but using it on a mutilate or a fan of knives in cleave is worth more

[worn sorrel]

Yeah Im just talking about it as a way to increase assa aoe if we were given more points

[balmy condor]

I mean it's a fucking failure of an ability to begin with

regardless of how you look at it

guaranteeing one crit

when all the rogue specs are crit stacking machines

[desert inlet]

make it work on beacon

then I'd use beacon

[worn sorrel]

Is it off gcd at least?

[balmy condor]

should've just stayed in 2008 where it belongs

[balmy condor]

yes

[silk bane]

its just a button from a long long long time ago where critting one time did actually matter, the game has evolved too much for this to matter anymore

[balmy condor]

yeh see they backed themselves into a corner on this shit too because noooooooooooooooo item damage is too much

idk

[worn sorrel]

Cold blood aoe shiv

[balmy condor]

cold blood is actually a disaster

sub macros it

outlaw macros it

assassination pretends it doesn't exist

[silk bane]

y u do dis to me i hate u now. will only watch half your streams from now on.

[desert inlet]

:(

[silk bane]

jk ill watch them all btu i really do hate beacon

[desert inlet]

me too I'm using dice until I get an orb

[worn sorrel]

Beacon is the worst ever

[silk bane]

the funny thing with this, is that CB SecTech is the most fun thing in the entire sub's kit which is imo another design failure

[worn sorrel]

Im glad ww is kinda escaping beacon

[balmy condor]

sectec being the most fun thing is thematic af though, shadow clones, finisher, big cooldown button

[silk bane]

when realz asked for feedback on sub, my entire suggestion was that, every single other spec in the game, has a moment when they feel strong, the class feels amazing to play, its fun! sub is probably the only spec in the entire game that never has that feeling

[balmy condor]

it's lit

wait what

sub has that feeling with sectec

[silk bane]

i guess so, the only real fun button sub has is sectech

[balmy condor]

sub in dance feels strong

[silk bane]

but its nowhere near the fun other classes get though

its not really 'strong' if its every 25 seconds though

like it cant be by default

also, the only reason it feels storng is cuz of ST

[balmy condor]

my main thing about sub right now is dance uptime and gloomblade/lingering

[silk bane]

its youre highest damage during all of dance

[balmy condor]

fuck lingering

[silk bane]

couldnt agree with you more

[balmy condor]

and fuck all the stuff on the rotten side too

[desert inlet]

bring back death from above (I have never played death from above)

[balmy condor]

get rid of all the generator damage

move it into shadowstrike

not gloomblade

[silk bane]

people did suggest that

and he did say that he has been thinking about the idea of having these thigns that actually work off of your finishers rather than builders

but he said no timeline attached, might never even happen so

[balmy condor]

extremely common realz w

[silk bane]

I think the quickest fixes to sub would be a rework of blades and actually making it a fun button. from there u can experiment with builds and see what people would enjoy

[vestal wren]

it contributes, sub also was historically the pvp spec. It had additionally a lot of change so there are multiple versions people liked for diffrent reasons

[silk bane]

@vestal wren Btw I was thinkingn about double dance, and Ill be honest im really really really really surprised that you dont think double dance would be exceptionally strong (if they fix the talent nodes so u dont have like 4 dead talents gated behind it). because, its not actually a 'it just gives u a second dance'. with dance being a 25 second cd right now, all you have to do is delay the second dance to be about 12-13 seconds afte rthe first dance ends, this way youre quite litearlly doubling the value you get from lingering because as soon as lingering is down to 7-8 stacks, u send another dance, and wait another 13 seconds, and u have another dance now

[vestal wren]

ill answer it in the sub channel, moment

[blissful forge]

pog idea in theory

[potent topaz]

Would it be sensible to move CT's initial dmg at the end of the dot duration as splash dmg and let CT's dot/splash dmg substantially scale with the number of trash mobs? You wouldn't use it in ST then and the annoying CT spam would end, too.

[quick idol]

You d press Envenom then

What the difference ? The spam would be still a thing

Just a diff spell

[potent topaz]

currently you spam both

would give a bit more time to re-apply Garrote/Rupture

and Env spam is at least a bit of fishing for PB procs

[deft flicker]

Except you don’t really need time to reapply those, IC does it for you

[potent topaz]

Then there is the reliance on IC again

[deft flicker]

And intentionally letting CT fall off is clunky

[potent topaz]

you do that with imp Garrotes all the time. nothing clunky about it

[deft flicker]

You wouldn’t do it if you could have 100% imp garrote uptime

[potent topaz]

which you don't have

[deft flicker]

Which is why you let imp garrotes fall off

[potent topaz]

so it's a moot point to discuss as we are used to it

[deft flicker]

Imagine regular garrote having a big damage snap when it falls off

[potent topaz]

Why should I? Garrote is different to CT. It is not spammable. CT is and the initial dmg and the end could end that.

but is was just a though how CT could bne changed

[balmy condor]

most sensible thing here would just be delete the up front damage entirely

damage at the end of a dot is real weird honestly

like sepsis does it

but imagine if CT did it, and then psyche mob dies before the end

kinda whack

also would have to make it pop if you refresh in pandemic

so you'd get these weird min-maxes where you'd want to KINDA spam it to get the instant damage anyways

which would just full circle back to now

if you make it not work with pandemic that's equally weird because now you're letting every single one tick out fully

which kinda goes against all the other dots that do pandemic, not only just with assassination, but across the entire game

[potent topaz]

yep, the pandemic stuff is a thing

[slim hamlet]

Also if you pull more after hitting CT you would refresh before the bonus dmg

[worn sorrel]

Ct spam is ok as long as we still use rupture and garrote

[potent topaz]

I find all kinds of skill spam quite dull. Echoing Blades was no different

[royal lantern]

EB was the biggest case of braindead spamm lol

EB is just showing once again that for 90% of players "omg its fun" just means "I do dmg"

[slim hamlet]

Yet you have blue name smh my head

[deft flicker]

“Third party addon bar beeg” —> “pleasure juices deployed”

[potent topaz]

then look me up what I play 😉

[slim hamlet]

No

[potent topaz]

I'm most of the time an Assa one trick. I don't care about the discord name color

[royal lantern]

oh sure, thats what a SUB MAIN would say /s

[potent topaz]

well, my discord name is my wow name Tryan

[royal lantern]

it was a joke mate

cus there is a bunch of weirdos that really think shit like that lol

[potent topaz]

whatever...Just stupid to assume a blue name would like storm/power spam

well, maybe some do

[sharp viper]

who doesn't, peak gameplay experience

[potent topaz]

yep

[stiff thicket]

Yeah that's why I swapped from sub to assa... Sub does big damages but it's not really fun to play. Assa is a bit more tricky to play if you want to align your cds perfectly even though the reward is not that high it's still funnier to play at least in ST

[deft flicker]

Reject dopamine, return to serotonin

[clever sapphire]

Im a red name that enjoys subs rotten playstyle (not anymore cause its not top dmg build)

[night delta]

Rather, turns out instant feedback when pushing buttons (big numbers / many numbers + big visual/audio) feels better to the average player

[royal lantern]

then dont play a spec based around its dots if you want instant big numbers, when dots are by desing many small/medium numbers

[night delta]

I'm not saying EB is good because of it, but that it's understandable that it feels good

[royal lantern]

ye sure, i know

i probs worded it badly (again)

[winged veldt]

For MSark didn’t I read ignore first add, bleed second and third but focus boss to make sure it’s below 48% going into P3. HALP me boys lol

[royal lantern]

its just, i never got those people that go into a spec and then say "why doesnt it do X??? other spec does X!!!!"

like

bruh

play X then

[night delta]

Yeah ^^

[royal lantern]

sec

will DM the write up

[winged veldt]

I heart you!

[royal lantern]

have it somewhere

[deft flicker]

This kind of makes sense sometimes, but not nearly as often as people propose

[night delta]

"Why doesn't it do damage ? Other spec does damage !"

"Just play spec that does damage then"

[winged veldt]

Kinda getting that but for the wrong reasons from RL lol

[royal lantern]

"assa should not be pushed into a weird situation where it needs to heavy decide bettwen (very bad) aoe OR ST, can never do both, when thats not the case for any other spec in the game that always do both and mostly just decide bettwen "slightly more ST or slightly more AoE", its stupid" is a good take with "why does X not do that thing that other specs/classes can do?"

"assa should have a blackpowder and shuriken storm copy so it can do aoe and also have IC on 20sec cd cus shadowpriest has that!!" is a bad take

[vestal wren]

a lot of classes have st / aoe more seperated

so it heavily depends on the tree design

[royal lantern]

tbf, atleast on Sark assa is 100% a legit play, sub/outlaw are more "do i want to be a bit higher on overall dps cus i can pad on adds that die anyway in p2/p3"

assa is doing more boss dmg cus its the only rogue spec that converts haste atleast somewhat

[royal lantern]

ye but none really on the level assa has

[vestal wren]

i don't know

[royal lantern]

BM hunter is close

iirc

[vestal wren]

i expect subtelty to be unique in that it has a lot of talents that work universaly

outlaw too to a degree

there are also some trade offs that are relevant, it isn't unconditional "good at everything"
(outlaw might be closer to that than subtlety as a consequence of how bf works)

[potent topaz]

true but some aoe in ST spec would be nice though instead of hoping for lucky PB procs

[royal lantern]

THATS WHAT IM SAYING lol

[potent topaz]

I got that...it's more that people tend to like having best of both worlds

[sonic schooner]

Just spam ct

[blissful forge]

but sub does most damage on the big add that spawn

[gaunt moat]

I don't think most specs suffer such a huge panelty to ST while also doing bad AoE

[errant swallow]

!tea

https://tenor.com/view/electro-kingdom-black-magic-gif-19337815

[royal lantern]

on pull its in the opener, then its just when low energy

[errant swallow]

Ty

I have a feeling Tea will be gone with rework

[gusty mirage]

Why would tea be gone with the rework

[royal lantern]

its monster energy:thistle flavor then

[slim hamlet]

!dm

[vagrant obsidian]

!sheet

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[brazen zodiac]

Epic

[burnt latch]

Theres not much tea when we know whats going to be happening tbh

All the teas during ptr

[gusty mirage]

[main vessel]

[burnt latch]

[gusty mirage]

[gusty mirage]

[iron vigil]

Anyone know the addon that tells you in Voice to go left or right on mythic Mag?

[dusk shoal]

Does shadowmeld work as another vanish for rouge

[balmy condor]

on trash in m+ yes, on any boss fight no

you have to fully drop combat and enter true stealth in order to get the benefits

[dusk shoal]

I figured it'd be weird or something

Oh ok

[pure moth]

https://wago.io/w_BZcB-rn

[sudden canyon]

you must not like fyling around

[royal lantern]

i had my fair share of "use DfA and suddenly you are Under the arena" on avatar pulls

[frozen iris]

If given the opportunity how would you guys fix sins aoe problems? Outside of make IC 20 sec.

[clever sapphire]

delete IC, didnt think past that, i just dont enjoy it

but gimme bonespikes legendary so deathspike

that would make it more fun for me personally

spam spike

thats full points so free bleed

profit

[frozen iris]

What’s the bonespike legendary?

[clever sapphire]

you can even take the additional spike away for all i care, i just enjoy spreading bleeds

[blissful forge]

man wdym

sbs spreading was imba

with sbs leggo its boring

[clever sapphire]

ye it made it easier, thats why i say you can remove the extra spike

just make it relevant in M+

spreading it is fun

when you have multiple up, you press spike and actually get full points

not like fok

[blissful forge]

agreed

[clever sapphire]

i mean council was just 4 targets, but playing assa on that boss was hella fun

[subtle tundra]

Deathspike so fun

[blissful forge]

sbs was the thing that made me reroll rogue in sl s1

[subtle tundra]

Fuck sbs by itself

It feels so weak

Idc about the numbers, when I press it, it feels weak

Also deathspike made m+ openers give a lot of cp consistency

[sudden canyon]

im sorry

[clever sapphire]

yep exactly

like ye the extra spike made everything easy as hell

but i couldnt care less

lemme spam the button spreading bleeds to 10 targets

but i wouldnt mind it either if we didnt have extra spike, but the spike dot itself did a bit more dmg so you would use it on targets that actually live

[subtle tundra]

Just hated that it didn't give any st when other covenant legendaries did

[clever sapphire]

and not just use it as a generator

[subtle tundra]

Otherwise, goated

[clever sapphire]

oh ye but thats why i loved that i could switch to a covenant for raid and for m+

you know

having choices

not like now

where my choice is be useless in aoe or go st

[glacial lantern]

What if poison bomb was an spender? Would that solve anything? Probably not to be honest, hoenstly, i think the only solution for assassination aoe is putting ic farther up the tree, and making it a spender like primal wrath

[blissful forge]

just make it like shadowcrash

easy aoe fix

lel

[glacial lantern]

The problem with that is: That's just feral druid

Well, they could shorten the cd to like 20 seconds yea

[blissful forge]

the pw idea is actually nice

pw was 3 charges no?

[glacial lantern]

Primal wrath is a combo point spender that applies a shorter duration of rip to all nearby targets

[subtle tundra]

Don't think it's as simple as adding something

[blissful forge]

what was the 3 charge thingy on fersl then? 🤔

[sudden canyon]

give IC 2 charges is better than giving a shorter CD IMO.

[subtle tundra]

They slapped ic onto our kit and made it worse

[glacial lantern]

That's brutal slash

[dusk shoal]

Assassin with 2 vanish would be fire

[clever sapphire]

IC is like slapping a bandaid on a broken bottle, its not fixing the problem, its just negating its effect

IC is boring af

i press IC, after that i turn into sub rogue

spammin 2 buttons

yay

fun

[sudden canyon]

I dont think sin AOE is bad. Its just not good enough to justify the loss in ST damage.

[burnt latch]

IC is great

[sudden canyon]

I also enjoy pressing IC and AP.

fuck me

[clever sapphire]

brutal slash?

[clever sapphire]

ap i can get behind because there i actually have to spread my bleeds before pressing my aoe button

so my work actually has meaning

[blissful forge]

ye this

[frozen iris]

I enjoy IC but I see why it’s a problem. I didn’t play sin in SL cause I tried the other two specs. But wasn’t the issue with sin for m+ no one would take you on low keys due to things dying too fast?

[sudden canyon]

I think the biggest way to fix sin AOE is to add like 4 more talent points to work with, without letting ST sin have the talent points as well.

[clever sapphire]

i mean its still the same, if i go into a +20 on a tyra week i still feel shit cause shit dies too fast

[sudden canyon]

i dont think the button themselves are bad, just how we get them.

[clever sapphire]

it isnt really a meaningfull ability in aoe, its a spender for their ST and so they can keep bloodtalons up with an actual aoe ability

[clever sapphire]

i mean ap shouldnt be an end node, its not strong enough to justify it being on the bottom there

[sudden canyon]

You want IC for the bleed amp on AP, but then when you take AP you want poison bomb as well, but you cant go into it if you take IC, so then you have 0 incentive to press Env in aoe and thats why it turns into a sub simulator where youre just Fok + CT

[clever sapphire]

take ap out of the sentence and it stays the same

if the mobs are not grouped why would you envenom

poison bomb wont hit shit

[glacial lantern]

What if there was some form of envenom cleave mechanic? Like, if you have crimson tempest up, your envenom will cleave a portion of the damage dealt to the main target? Pair that with ic that is higher up in the tree, and you should have good aoe. At a small st expense

Apply rupture on targets and spread with ic, apply crimson tempest, use envenom till tempest runs out, re apply tempest etc

This way you would also get more poison bomb procs

[frozen iris]

That’s pretty interesting . Would this work on top of poison bomb?

[glacial lantern]

Well yea, because you're using envenom

And envenom procs bomb

[frozen iris]

I was just clarifying if this would be a talent or inherent to envenom. I’m not sure inherent is the word I want to use but can’t think of the one I wan

[glacial lantern]

Oh i see, no i think as a talent it would still work well, i don't think it's strictly necessary to make it a baseline interaction

[limber lion]

Ya'll are wilding

[glacial lantern]

The most important thing though is: Indiscriminate carnage cannot stay as a last row talent

The st loss implications are just too massive

[frozen iris]

You should join, it’s fun

[glacial lantern]

For a spec that already does average st

And the cd is also too long

[limber lion]

I know too much

So I'll refrain from giving my opinion

[loud light]

we're just out here doing blade flurry but for assassination

[glacial lantern]

Not really, it's significantly different. Does that mean that psychic link is also basically blade flurry?

[frozen iris]

why would you tease me like that

[loud light]

yes

[glacial lantern]

Clearly it isn't.

No it isn't

[loud light]

they apply all their dots with one shadow crash, it's not exactly rocket science

[glacial lantern]

That has no relevance on whether or not, psychic link is exactly like blade flurry

The actual mechanic of outlaw and shadow aoe are very different, even though they have an ability that at first glance seems kinda sorta similar, and the same applies to what i said before

[sudden canyon]

assa not been meta since bfa s1 goddam

cap

[vestal wren]

you probably don't want to post the entire picture

because it is hard to know what part you reference to

[sudden canyon]

how do i get disc to not embed

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1137879228143116398/1137881486842933268/top_mplus.png

[frozen iris]

What made sin good in bfa s1?

[vestal wren]

<link>

my point was not that you need to embed

its easier to highlight a certain section

[sudden canyon]

oh, well i thought it was interesting how the Assa portion has just become smaller and smaller since bfa1

[clever sapphire]

ye, remove IC

[spice surge]

If you managed to RNG the best azerite pieces from your weekly chest that had pre-nerf shrouded on them your garrotes would absolutely truck

And there was also the fok one

Just very strongly tuned in general

[vestal wren]

Echoing blades and ss yes

both very strong traits, in some seasons a bit undervalued

[shy heron]

I do miss echoing blades

[balmy condor]

I don't

[shy heron]

Because it was degen 2 button gameplay?

[balmy condor]

it was more than degen

you just straight overcapped combo points

[shy heron]

Haha yep

[vestal wren]

EB had the point

[brazen zodiac]

lul

[vestal wren]

you could just maintain some bleeds

and spam fok

[shy heron]

Yep

[vestal wren]

funnily enough

subtlety looks atrociouse if you look at the chart

[frozen iris]

Now here’s something I don’t think I’ve seen talked about. How would you help rogues utility in m+?

[vestal wren]

unless i missread it SL s2 was the only one it was relevant in SL / BfA

[vestal wren]

is rogue utility a problem in keys?

[frozen iris]

I’ve heard at higher keys it makes more sense to bring people with better utitily over rogues in general.

At least that’s what I’ve heard echoed. I don’t want add my personal feelings on it because I’m biased

[vestal wren]

think its just this season

[clever sapphire]

you need aoe cc and dispells

rogue has neither

[vestal wren]

because e.g. mage now brings even mor control and utility

[clever sapphire]

yay

[vestal wren]

what i am still surprised of

because mage has ... significantly more things than most classes/specs now

[glacial lantern]

Did you willinngly overcap cps becuase something else did more damage?

If yes, then that's bad design

[vestal wren]

you did

[frozen iris]

Give us aoe cloak and break the game

[vestal wren]

well under certain conditions

[glacial lantern]

I am fine with overcapping cps becuase of procs, i am not fine with overcapping cps becuase that's how you're supposed to do the rotation

[vestal wren]

high enough critical strike and enough targets

[glacial lantern]

There should be no situation where your FINISHER isn't the best button to press, when you have enough combo points ofc

[subtle tundra]

Well it's a df problem since a lot of other classes got a lot of utility with the new trees

Aoe ones esp

[vestal wren]

maybe we need smoke bomb back, with los mechanics

[subtle tundra]

And dungeon design that changed from sl where you had pulls with assigned mobs to control

💪

Rogue solo skull

💪💪💪💪 Sir, yes sir

[vestal wren]

rogue still brings:

• atrophic / numbing
• shroud
• a lot of single target cc

[subtle tundra]

Reduce blind cd

Aaaaa

It's not a 2 min cd ability

🛌

[frozen iris]

I really wish blind worked on the familiars in Dawn/Morchie

[subtle tundra]

🤨

[gray crest]

shroud is a lesser mind soothe at this point

[vestal wren]

shroud became fairly optional

because dungeon design and strategies changed

[subtle tundra]

Shroud has to be 6 min, mind soothe is no cd

Nice balance!

[clever sapphire]

i mean one is usefull, the other gets countered by 1 mob with a blue eye above its head

[frozen iris]

True*

[gray crest]

https://tenor.com/view/vince-staples-fax-it-do-be-facts-tho-its-the-truth-gif-16329641

[subtle tundra]

Oh yea, blizz trying it's hardest to cuck us

[vestal wren]

don't think there is any intentional design decision like that

[clever sapphire]

but im pretty sure even without that eye you wouldnt do shroud skips

[subtle tundra]

For sure there is

[vestal wren]

DF just changed a lot of things

also this season had a lot of not optimal decisions

[frozen iris]

I think that it is dependent on your ability to get back if you die. Most of the time I end using shroud to make sure people don’t pull certain things. Very rarely do I have someone ask for it to be used.

[vestal wren]

sark with a haste effect, when haste is so wildly diffrent in impact on specs

a mythic plus dungeon pool that makes a specific spec mandatory

[clever sapphire]

true, like creating augvoker or reworking mage

[vestal wren]

also a new spec/role that changes the balance nviroment completely

[gray crest]

or all the dungeons being well tailored to shadow priest utility

[vestal wren]

to be fair

[frozen iris]

https://tenor.com/view/letterkenny-to-be-fair-serious-lets-be-fair-gif-16087355

[vestal wren]

being hypocritical, last time a specific ability was too good in a niche situation

and created a one sided class/spec distribution even if it only was for one boss

this ability was purged from the game entirely very quick

[subtle tundra]

Ele shaman in crucible

[vestal wren]

def. not talking about shuriken combo

[subtle tundra]

Ofc not

It's still here.

In my heart

[clever sapphire]

wasnt endboss in S1 that but with evoker?

already forgot its name

[vestal wren]

poultra

[oak sky]

The shield thing?

Unravel??

[subtle tundra]

captain vor?

Look at them, they come to this place when they know they are not pure. Tenno use the keys, but they are mere trespassers. Only I, Vor, know the true power of the Void. I was cut in half, destroyed, but through it's Janus Key, the Void called to me. It brought me here and here I was reborn. We cannot blame these creatures, they are being led by a false prophet, an impostor who knows not the secrets of the Void. Behold the Tenno, come to scavenge and desecrate this sacred realm. My brothers, did I not tell of this day? Did I not prophesize this moment? Now, I will stop them. Now I am changed, reborn through the energy of the Janus Key. Forever bound to the Void. Let it be known, if the Tenno want true salvation, they will lay down their arms, and wait for the baptism of my Janus key. It is time. I will teach these trespassers the redemptive power of my Janus key. They will learn it's simple truth. The Tenno are lost, and they will resist. But I, Vor, will cleanse this place of their impurity.

[vestal wren]

(its a joke, its a alien from jimmy neutron that looks like a chicken, raszageth looks similar)

[clever sapphire]

looks scarier than rasza

[vestal wren]

but jokes/memes aside

it might be relevant to consider requirements like mass dispell in dungeons

to avoid situaitons like right now with a deterministic meta and close to no spec variance

[glacial lantern]

He looks pretty angry

[clever sapphire]

remove mass dispell, lets see the meta change

[frozen iris]

Just give rogues mass cloak fuck it

[glacial lantern]

What they should do is create dungeons that are not easily negated by certain skills

I think there should be less magic dispells

[clever sapphire]

let us handle out cloak like warlocks handle cookies

[blissful forge]

isnt that from jimmy neutron?

[glacial lantern]

Or, more dps can deal with magic dispells, either is fine

[blissful forge]

THANKS

[vestal wren]

yes, see my second message below

[glacial lantern]

Also, i think pi should be a personal cd

[blissful forge]

i had this take earlier today with mass cloak

but @strange python thought it was cooked

[vestal wren]

the problem with this is the dungeon pool

[clever sapphire]

remove the need for 20 dispells, 30 mass stuns, 20 cleanses and whatnot

[vestal wren]

because DF canges dungeons every season

SL or prior you had a fixed set of dungeons

so you could easier adress things like this

[glacial lantern]

I honestly think that m+ has not reached nearly it's full potential

[frozen iris]

It would be pretty sweet. However it would be pretty broken. Aoe that removes a bunch of shit on top of ignoring certain mechanics.

[vestal wren]

assigning people to rework dungeons every season costs more dev power

[vestal wren]

not even close

[clever sapphire]

give us 10 man dungeons, fight me

[frozen iris]

Good ol UBRS

[vestal wren]

rather have 10 man raids than dungeons

[clever sapphire]

how about both

[frozen iris]

100% down for 10 man mythic

[blissful forge]

i think they should make it reduced effectiveness maybe like 70% magic dmg reduction, i just wanna be a magician who lets stuff dissappear under his cloak

[vestal wren]

i prefere having the diffrence

[blissful forge]

this

[vestal wren]

because if you move both raids and dungeons to 10 man

you lose 5 man content

[blissful forge]

btw fuu, youre a king for remembering that chicken from jimmy neutron

is there a way to watch it in german somewhere?

[clever sapphire]

no idea, im a shadowlands andy

[clever sapphire]

ye okay thats true, i would enjoy 10 man raids and probably even look for a good guild

[vestal wren]

no idea, but google is your friend

[frozen iris]

Dungeon in vanilla that went from 15 man to 10 man to eventually 5 man. But that was more on people’s gearing than anything else. People were bad

[vestal wren]

i like the idea of making old raids into dungeons

[blissful forge]

bs.to is banned in germany dont know any other site x)

[vestal wren]

karazhan was a rly nice dungeon

even tho i didn't like lower that much

[frozen iris]

Karazhan was my favorite raid easily. Dungeon on the other hand…

[sudden canyon]

feels like every mob has true vision now for shroud cheeses/skips. They should make true vision mobs immune to mind soothe.

[vestal wren]

possible, maybe just put a high cooldown on it

[sudden canyon]

true, give it the feint treatment

15seconds

[clever sapphire]

i only enjoyed lower xd

but that was with deahtspike

[vestal wren]

you could hit some big numbers in lower

[clever sapphire]

never did that, my tank sucked

[strange python]

yea lets add a spell thats like darkness from DH and AMZ from dk's but combine them together into a rogue

[balmy condor]

brother if zeross thinks it's cooked then its legit the most delusional thing possible

that should be your first sign

[strange python]

wait i just realized im in assassination chat

nothing else to be expected

im down for a mass cloak for the entire raid

would like mass dispell too

oh and he mentioned AP shout from warriors too, should be nice aswell

[gray crest]

mass cloak would be too broken

[strange python]

exactly

[gray crest]

smoke bomb would be fine

[strange python]

https://tenor.com/view/sml-jeffy-burning-food-cooking-fire-gif-24507671

too much cooking @midnight mist what brought me here

[blissful forge]

🤣🤣🤣

fair enough

[clever sapphire]

probably the smell

smelt like outlaw channel

well not that bad

nvm

[strange python]

assa rogues are fake

fight me

[clever sapphire]

well they dont exist

so they cant be fake

[strange python]

[worn sorrel]

Any tips on how to use echoing reprimand?

[clever sapphire]

you press it

[worn sorrel]

And which poisons should I use? Any reason to change them mid m+?

[clever sapphire]

if you are lucky that you have points on blue you use it

[clever sapphire]

nah, you use the same ones always

[worn sorrel]

do u always get empowered spender if u cast echoing at 0cp?

[clever sapphire]

if you use ER at 0 cp, you will always land on an empowered point yep

[subtle tundra]

go away yelow name

[worn sorrel]

pretty cool then, i guess u also play a bit with garrote/shiv to get to the desired amount of cps?

[clever sapphire]

tbh you will land on the point always in that 45 second window

no need to play around it

and you use shiv on cooldown usually so cant really use that to play around

er is kind of a "i press button, i forgot what it does"

[worn sorrel]

im having trouble for when it's 2cp

[clever sapphire]

there will be a moment where you are unlucky and hit a 2cp mut

[worn sorrel]

And do u have a m+ overall by chance? I only wanna see how it looks if properly played

[worn sorrel]

you only fan at +5targets right?

[clever sapphire]

nope sorry, didnt play my rogue for a while now, details are gone

[clever sapphire]

if i remember correctly its 3+, but dont take my word on it, its my feelcraft

[worn sorrel]

garrote is your top?

[clever sapphire]

ye garrote/rupture/CT

unless i get big poison bomb procs, in that case poison bomb is like 4th/5th

[worn sorrel]

I sese

[clever sapphire]

feck now i wanna play assa

but garrote being top is kinda a given seeing how much of your dmg it does

[worn sorrel]

yeah

and

how do I even use thistle tea?

Im always max energy at 5targets (doing dummy rn)

like im using it for the mastery but shouldnt I be low energy at some point?

[clever sapphire]

in aoe you use tea to not overcap on charges

in ST you use it in your opener so you dont overcap

after that its when you feel like you need energy

the mastery part is just there so its there

[worn sorrel]

ye i see, im using it when i DM

[clever sapphire]

yap

you will think mastery is worth it in the begining, thats where a lot of mistakes come from, they spam it with some macro or so

but the mastery is just not worth it

using it for energy is the best

[balmy condor]

also not trying to be rude, but want to point out that all of these questions are answered in the faq

[clever sapphire]

im getting prepared for the 10.2 fotm rerollers

[balmy condor]

I'm gonna slow mode the channel into oblivion if it gets bad

it's gonna be like 3 wowhead articles, full wowhead article, spreadsheet, faq updates, streams

if it's just dumb question spam in here rather than conversations

then we're just gonna crack the channel

cause nah bruh

[clever sapphire]

ye thats fair

wasnt there during slowmode

[balmy condor]

previous slowmodes were mostly dooming tbh

like 10.0.5 was just infinite doom

[vestal wren]

outlaw had the majority of slow modes

[balmy condor]

we haven't had to slowmode in here for people just using us as a google helpdesk in a while

outlaw dooming is next level yeh those slowmodes are crazy

[worn sorrel]

they are not, actually

the poison one is yeah

[balmy condor]

so is tea

echoing reprimand was in there but I deleted on accident I'm noticing now so you got me there

[subtle tundra]

yes whispyr

[worn sorrel]

My question was more about "Im never starved at 5t"

But I did read that part of the faq

[subtle tundra]

you dont know what is in the faq

[limber lion]

So is FOK 3+

[balmy condor]

yeh sure, I guess I could've mentioned that you don't want to overcap charges

seems kinda pedantic at that point though

[worn sorrel]

i dont find the answer to this in the faq, so is this it?

[balmy condor]

fok is at 3+ yes

[glacial lantern]

How does fok combo point generation even work?

It seems very inconsistent

[balmy condor]

1 cp every cast, +1 for each target crit

[worn sorrel]

crit

[glacial lantern]

Oh i see

[balmy condor]

because of seal fate

[glacial lantern]

So it's for each target crit

I thought it should do 2 at most, since 1 base, 1 seal fate, but it seems seal fate does 1 for each crit

[balmy condor]

arterial precision works the same way with its cp generation as well

[balmy condor]

correct, same thing for mutilate

mutilate is 2 hits

each hit can seal fate

so you have a base of 2, and a max of 4

[clever sapphire]

well you learn something new every day, now it makes sense why i sometimes get 3 points with mut and sometimes 4

(ye im dumb, i never thought its 2 attacks)

[worn sorrel]

Do we have a list of things we can evade?

[velvet haven]

It's also why iridius fragment is the way it is on sims

(as in oversimming)

[balmy condor]

in current season there's nothing

just auto attacks

[worn sorrel]

so evasion is kinda useless?

[balmy condor]

correct

dodge chance is not a physical immunity

[worn sorrel]

so u basically only evasion in FH?

[balmy condor]

it's a very niche subset of attacks that hit but can be dodged

freehold has some opportunities for it yeah

[keen spruce]

FH and echo of nelth

[balmy condor]

usually you would CC anything that's enraged

[keen spruce]

and spiteful

das kinda it

[balmy condor]

nelth is hardly a use

[keen spruce]

tell that to oxi

he kept flaming me all of prog

[loud light]

can dodge the stomp/knockback on sentinel talondrus, that one's kind of useful

[balmy condor]

gonna mitigate some tiny ass dot that's never gonna kill you anyway

and you have to face the wall

[keen spruce]

o troo nasty knocks when you have a bleed

[balmy condor]

pog

[keen spruce]

on snek

is nice

[balmy condor]

so useful

[keen spruce]

u have to face the boss

[balmy condor]

whatever same shit

[earnest remnant]

the wallbreak used to hurt, not really a thing anymore

[balmy condor]

it's pointless

[keen spruce]

I was bullied into doing it

[balmy condor]

it doesn't take any spot healing away from anyone

[worn sorrel]

I remember SL having more cases for evasion, no?

[balmy condor]

cause healers will just giga aoe heal the whole thing

[keen spruce]

I was only doing it after the first add

during the gate

cuz it was a little hectic

[balmy condor]

there was a couple of bosses that had charges you could evasion, but aside from that not really

[keen spruce]

and cuz the mods in here were bullying me

well not stealthi

he would just come in and ask why the boss isn't dead yet

[earnest remnant]

but like evasion in dungeons for fixates, snake boss in uldaman, first boss bracken both the spin and the bleed

[keen spruce]

then never speak again

any fixate auto attack shit and beyblades yeah

[balmy condor]

I honestly believe you could unbind evasion and even in high m+ keys no one would notice

[keen spruce]

frogs in hoi

I get some good mileage out of it, but more as a "i want to keep hitting these mobs and not move" angle

not for critical tech

[balmy condor]

yeh

[earnest remnant]

tyran uldaman if you have bleed on you + stomp at the same time you die

im just sitting on evasion that entire fight for that overlap to happen

[worn sorrel]

would be cool to give evasion a 15% dr like with spell reflect?

[balmy condor]

first mistake is doing high uldaman on tyran that shit sounds ultra aids

[balmy condor]

evasion just needs to not be dodge anymore

[keen spruce]

u just stun all of the bleed, knock overlaps

[earnest remnant]

spec elusiveness xD

[balmy condor]

dodge is an old ass janky mechanic

just make it a phys immune

and call it a day

[worn sorrel]

OP

[balmy condor]

shorten the duration

so it's like a 4 second phys immunity

and you're good to go

I don't think that would be too op

would function as a phys-only ice block

or turtle

paladins have full immune bubble as well

there's plenty of abilities in the game that are more powerful and cover a wider spectrum of mechanics

the limitation of physical damage only is more than enough of a drawback

[worn sorrel]

it would be really cool tho

[subtle tundra]

rogue get moving iceblock no way that would be too op!

[balmy condor]

mages get stationary turtle

crazy

[subtle tundra]

hunters are a non class

your argument is invalid

[balmy condor]

aside from being the most played yeah

[subtle tundra]

and least liked

[balmy condor]

druid exists

[subtle tundra]

(by raid leaders)

[balmy condor]

demon hunter exists

shaman exists

rogue exists

[subtle tundra]

im saying they dont provide shit to the raid

[misty holly]

I have been called out 😦

[balmy condor]

neither do the classes I listed

[worn sorrel]

they do the mechanics

[subtle tundra]

i see his point

though i have played assa since s1 bfa and not once have i felt like i was doing the right thing since then(in m+)

[balmy condor]

skill issue

[subtle tundra]

.!.

contrarian

[worn sorrel]

cant wait for rogue rework tbh

there is so many cool stuff in the tree that i cant simply not pick

[glacial lantern]

Sub rogue is def the best performer overall, i think

Outlaw is second place for overall performance, and sin third

But by quite a long shot in my opinion

[keen spruce]

assas was the primary m+ rogue spec for like what 5 weeks in bfa?

otherwise basically relegated to the basement

and it's been the best in raid a handful of times

and probably 2nd most viable in PvP in any given season

[glacial lantern]

The st damage of assassination isn't even great right now

It truly is just a bad spec in terms of tuning at the moment

[keen spruce]

well yeah rn it's pretty downbad

[clever sapphire]

i mean assa is in the top half of boss dmg

[fleet whale]

I wouldn't mind having bad cleave/aoe if it meant our ST was really good

[clever sapphire]

i dont mind having bad aoe for good cleave/ST

having bad cleave and aoe is just nah

make it a pure pvp spec at that point

[fleet whale]

problem is, assassination isn't really good at anything

none of the three rogue specs bring great utility either

[burnt latch]

Rogues amazing

[subtle tundra]

on god

this guy knows

[burnt latch]

[glacial lantern]

I am not a fan of this type of balance, where you excel at something, but are really bad at something else.

I just don't think it's good for gameplay.

In order to have a spec be good, while lacking significantly in another aspect, that spec has to excel at what they do, which would mean in this case, insane st damage, the problem is, if the spec is like 50% better than everyone else at st, this would significantly skew composition in favor of assassination when it comes to st bosses

I do not think this is the correct way to balance.

[royal lantern]

nobody that actually plays the game does

[oak sky]

THE DON

[balmy condor]

I've never seen anyone argue in favor of that

[misty holly]

The problem is it's never you do 50% more single target than other more balanced classes, and do 50% less aoe. The number they balance is that you do 1% more single target, and then do 40% less aoe

it's like wtf is that

[burnt latch]

[misty holly]

If you gonna have me doing 1% more single target, I want to do 1% less aoe

that is balance

not the shit we have now

[glacial lantern]

It was about the argument of excelling at something, while being bad at something else, i just fundamentally do not agree with that idea

I don't think there should be a st spec, and an aoe spec, and you bring various specs in order to hava a "balanced" composition.

I think optimally all specs should be able to do relatively well in both st and aoe at the same time, and then if you want to specialize you can. But you always have the option of being versatile, and doing 90%/95% of the aoe and st damage you could do at the same time with a single build.

[balmy condor]

well that's why assa is getting changed in 10.2

I don't get what the point is

[glacial lantern]

Good, hopefully they don't screw it up

Nothing, it was more of a design discussion

[balmy condor]

aight

[keen spruce]

we're breakin new ground here

[spice spire]

Gonna break you If roster boss doesn’t first

[oak sky]

St spec doesnt exist

[void mesa]

They know we're just griefing by not playing sub 🙃

[silk bane]

man I came her to shit post in sin channel for a sec and see 17 people crying about state of sin and now im sadge too

I mostly blame quake obviously but still

[gilded oasis]

Catto says cheer up

[gusty mirage]

where phantom ping

[gilded oasis]

@gusty mirage 👻

[gusty mirage]

[desert inlet]

[gusty mirage]

all the homies are here

[gilded oasis]

This homie was in the ER most the day

[gusty mirage]

[alpine pagoda]

rework w8ting room

https://imgur.com/jTYEfgB

[vapid sierra]

i swapped to sub for a mag pull and was pulling 15k more dps on a mastery/haste profile

da fuk

[gusty mirage]

magmorax is kind of dogshit for CD timing for assassination as well

factor that in

[drifting cloud]

almost as if assa has execute talents

[vapid sierra]

i mean why? cause its a 5:30? you dont get an extra dm?

im holding my 4 minute dm for 5minutes so i can pop it with pot

[balmy condor]

Yeh

You have to hold dm for pot

But then you lose out on the tier bonus

[vapid sierra]

fair

[timid nest]

why are we not using exsang anymore? came back after a while

[frozen iris]

Short reason its bugged. Long reason check the faq or pins

[timid nest]

aight

ty

[vapid sierra]

its shit

[gaunt moat]

Sark report, day 8?
Ŵ̸͝ĥ̸͝y̶̅̅ ̵͗͋a̵̅͒r̸̔̕ẽ̵ ̶̐̑w̴̥͛e̵͊͂ ̸̓͌s̷̀̓t̵̃͂ill here, j̈́͝ust to suff̶̒̈́ė̶r?

[craggy haven]

is there an over all difference between sepsis and bonespike? was reading the wowhead guide

[slim hamlet]

In how you play? if so then yea quite a bit actually

[balmy condor]

damage wise bone spike is about 2% worse

definitely playable unless you're trying to min max for mythic prog

but I think for the average heroic raider or low mythic guild bone spike will probably pull equal or outperform in a lot of situations honestly

easier to play, more clear cleave, isn't impacted by kill times as much

it's way more straight forward to understand "me press button it do dam job done"

rather than having to hit a cooldown and then time the buffs and think about how it leads into a deathmark or if it's the last cooldown use of the fight and then moving it into the tier set rather than the deathmark and moving vanish around

kind of a headache if you're not used to it

[craggy haven]

so im a new rogue but am lovin it. so maybe start with spike until i figure out sepsis or is the learning gap not that difficult

[slim hamlet]

Changes your cooldown usage quite a bit

Definitely easier to learn with bonespike and switch later imo

[craggy haven]

ill keep that in mind. thanks guys ❤️

[slim hamlet]

Also is ranged for downtime so u can fuck up a bit more

[balmy condor]

yeh

100% can also just play bonespike the entire way through

[craggy haven]

oh thats nice.

[balmy condor]

you might get a weird look on the street if someone knows how rogues works or compares to parses or something since everyones playing sepsis in raid

[craggy haven]

sepsis looks really cool though lol

[balmy condor]

but realisitically unless someone is scrutinizing you, they'd never be able to tell the difference during actual combat

[craggy haven]

another dumb question should you be using deadly, amp for the lethals?

thats what i had been doing leveling

[slim hamlet]

yes

deadly is just instant but with bonus dot

amp is just instant but with bonus envenom thingy

[craggy haven]

they just have so many wound poison routes in the tree i thought maybe there was a trick

[slim hamlet]

iirc wound deals less dmg than instant

only in pvp

[balmy condor]

Instant is instant poison

Deadly is instant poison with a dot

Amp is instant poison with the envenom buff

Wound is instant poison but half damage and a heal block

So for pve where the heal block is kinda whatever, amp and deadly are just better versions of instant

[slim hamlet]

Wound for sanguine

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s cooked

[slim hamlet]

Right before they die you quickly switch to wound, and then switch back for every pack

[balmy condor]

We get the outlaw and sub rogues in here randomly on the sanguine weeks going “WELL ACKTUAKLUKUJLLLY IF YOU HAVE A BAD PUG TANK AND YOU HAVE 12.67% UPTIME ON THE SANGUINE HEAL ACROSS THE DUNGEON THEN TECHNICALLY WOUND WOULD BE 150K EFFECTIVE DPS BETTER OVER THE 45 MINUTES”

And then it’s like yeah but sub and outlaw poison damage isn’t relevant parts of their damage so it doesn’t matter

[slim hamlet]

True and real

[balmy condor]

And also who the fuck cares go away mplusser

[dawn haven]

[balmy condor]

M+ers pretending like an extra 200 dps worth of effective damage from the heal block is going to allow them to magically time their key