assassination

[spice surge]

Its not awful for m+ as sark cloak is a bit doodoo there

But for raid 💀

[thin scroll]

should I be using a normal cloak in M+?

[frozen iris]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[cerulean nest]

love how multiple sepsis/DMs line up perfectly with tactical destruction on zskarn

trying to cloak it and stick around as long as I can to not delay cds but it blows

[royal lantern]

somone that can do memes need to edit this

with sark cloak vs spore cloak

[balmy condor]

Ye prolly

But like dropping a whole ass embellishment

Yikes

Nah

[thin scroll]

oh thats good to know hmmm should have a 441 somewhere in my bags haha

[royal lantern]

crafted cloak?

[thin scroll]

nope, just a regular drop one I think

I hoard gear a lot

[royal lantern]

i still have a 437 wrist in my bags

because MAYBE i need it????

[thin scroll]

took me a while to even get rid of my 411 trinkets xD

[uncut echo]

King you fucking need it for our sark prog 😭😭😭

[balmy condor]

??????

[spice spire]

And lose an embellishment?

[balmy condor]

I have a corner on the cocoon market

[uncut echo]

COCOON STONKS

You only need it for p1 right

[balmy condor]

I do not need your peasant cloaks and fungal spreads

I have the finest silk

[uncut echo]

Like p2 is nothing borgir

[gusty mirage]

you can feint everything

wdym

[spice spire]

So you’re a part of the anti-fungal coalition?

[uncut echo]

Tell that to him

[spice spire]

[woeful meteor]

You need to bribe the hpriest so you can look like an angel in P1

[uncut echo]

Cheat death looking ass

[gusty mirage]

that's just bad healing

sorry not sorry

[uncut echo]

Idk our healers are kinda nuts

[gusty mirage]

apparently not

if he's proccing cheat on clears

[uncut echo]

Real ig

Idt he is on clears

[gusty mirage]

you feint breath clear & last clear

[balmy condor]

Yeah everything except the 95k dps I take in debuffs and dots on the breath clear

[uncut echo]

I think he is if there's a singular misplay

[gusty mirage]

you health pot cloak the last clear into glimmer

and you're chilling

but if they're not healing him

that's on them

not him

[uncut echo]

Valid

[balmy condor]

I deadass was feinting breath clear and proccing cheat for like 25 pulls in a row

[uncut echo]

I think I remember him posting a pic of him just rotting in our early p1 prog

[gusty mirage]

if healers could stop pretending rogue is some unkillable god that'd be great

[uncut echo]

Yeah

I remember that precisely Whispyr

[balmy condor]

So now I get cocoon on it

Automatically

:3

[uncut echo]

Chaye a real one for that tbh

[gusty mirage]

I think seli was getting GS

on his

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[uncut echo]

Honestly

[gusty mirage]

people just think we're unkillable

[uncut echo]

Very good utilization

[gusty mirage]

and idk where that came from

[woeful meteor]

do you think that part is harder? whenever I dont cloak the breath clear I just die to the dot while surge is fineish

[uncut echo]

Because they saw 40% dr on a 15 second cd

And failed to read AOE

[gusty mirage]

depends when you guys breath clear

tbh

[woeful meteor]

second with 16 people

[gusty mirage]

I feel like the last bit is spookier than the first clear

but if you don't get any prio healing

you just proc cheat

[balmy condor]

Legion, when we had no cooldown feint and vial was 10% more max hp and had a 30% global dr attached to it and cloak worked on everything and Valeera legs made us competitive with tank healing

[gusty mirage]

and then you die later to something unavoidable because people forget you exist

if you look at the healing taken logs from rashok to sark for your guild

you'll notice a very depressing trend

you're likely 25-30% of healing done to yourself

idk if I was ever over 50% health on magmorax

ever

dropping 2k dps to compensate for healers forgetting you exist is for sure not the play

they just need to open their eyes idk

at one point I was getting more heals from our prot pally than half our healers

so

[steel spire]

Cmon man I wore sporecloak for echo

[gusty mirage]

why would you wear it for echo

we take no damage on that boss

you can feint literally everything

you can cloak heart dots off

[steel spire]

Healers complain

[gusty mirage]

you can cloak shit overlaps in p2

and you can evasion the wall breaks

and take 0 damage

[steel spire]

Healer pov

[gusty mirage]

yeah but healer pov for rogue should be confusion why you're chilling at 90% health while everyone's rotting on the p2 transition to the 2nd add

[steel spire]

They argued no one in range for p3

[balmy condor]

Oh so they’re garbage

[gusty mirage]

one of our healers messaged me and asked me what I'm doing to take no damage on that transition

[balmy condor]

They having a tea party in Kyrgyzstan or some shit

[gusty mirage]

and I was like "apparently I can evasion the wall break"

and he goes "wtf"

bruh I think if my RL asked me to craft sporecloak I'd uninstall the game

ngl

[steel spire]

I did cry but after dropping rage pot I just Yolod the cloak too

[earnest remnant]

ive had a few people not believe me

when i told them

[gusty mirage]

yeah rogue is straight chilling on echo

lol

literally the definition of payphone

https://tenor.com/view/aaaa-hola-como-andy-martino-dance-gif-18551524

[earnest remnant]

and then

we reverse payphone p1 on the next boss

[gusty mirage]

yep

you just get anally pillaged in p1

[steel spire]

I was getting mercd by lock pets on mcs lmao

[gusty mirage]

DK told me "enjoy p1"

then we pulled it

and I understood

[gusty mirage]

I used their pets for fok CP

[earnest remnant]

our lock last week

lost his 3mil hp pet

during an mc

[steel spire]

Lmao grp caught on and was mad I was applying atrophic

[gusty mirage]

[gusty mirage]

it's okay deadly poison killed all the imps anyway

sucks to suck

[steel spire]

[earnest remnant]

raid in 20

and all i wanna do is watch tv

[gusty mirage]

then don't show up

you killed the bosses like 5 times

[earnest remnant]

we have 4 people missing today

[gusty mirage]

you can make it 5

if you believe hard enough

[earnest remnant]

then i dont think we raid at all xD

[steel spire]

Got the day off raid, fortnite time!

[gusty mirage]

then everyone can watch TV

[woeful meteor]

Had someone complain that he couldnt get to his bomb spot cause I foked him with crippling

[gusty mirage]

I'm failing to see the negatives here

[gusty mirage]

skill issue tbh

next time tell him to equip the pvp trinket

and hit them with a "git gud"

for funsies on reclear

hit him with a blind

and then DM him this emote

[woeful meteor]

Reclear with him

[gray crest]

IC+garrote silence the ranged

[gusty mirage]

@gray crest I'm going to beacon kittenz the next time I pug heroic with him

AMA

[gray crest]

As long as you record it

[steel spire]

Beacon the resto druids

[gray crest]

I need it

[steel spire]

Always complain

[gusty mirage]

did you not see him on rashok?

that's content for months

210 pulls or some shit like that

[gray crest]

Yeah you sent it to me, that was glorious

[gusty mirage]

then he died on their kill

https://tenor.com/view/champoy-el-risitas-kek-issou-etu-gif-17837830

[gray crest]

[woeful meteor]

[gray crest]

Right out of rashok into zskarn. Poor kittenz

[spice spire]

Zskarn looks easier now that it’s scripted right?

[earnest remnant]

"oxi join us"

it will be fun yeh

[gusty mirage]

yes

[gusty mirage]

I'm convinced that he's not a real person

and he's a CIA plant in my life to track my day to day activities

[earnest remnant]

lmfao

[gray crest]

What convinced you of that?

Was it the fake linked in profile he made

[gusty mirage]

the fact that there's absolutely zero chance someone is that purposefully obtuse to everything

bro

he was trying to edit a library card in paint to submit that as documentation of his fake profile existing

I was like that's not a valid form of ID and he goes "what do you mean"

just no shot he's a real human being man

idk

[earnest remnant]

[gray crest]

Should've used a blockbuster card

[gusty mirage]

wait until you hear the reason of the fake linkedin profile

it gets worse

he messaged me asking me for help because I'm apparently "good at photoshop"

and I'm like why are you doing this and he goes "well I saw a subreddit about dumb shit people say on linkedin so I want to make a fake account and post dumb shit"

[earnest remnant]

[gray crest]

Me and him were playing battlefield and he was doing it between deaths

[gusty mirage]

[scenic sapphire]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[drowsy plaza]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[random tiger]

how reliable is the wowanaylzer page for sin rogue?

[spice spire]

Pretty actually

@main vessel did a really good job with it!

[balmy condor]

[random tiger]

awesome, im currently looking at some random normal logs from my first time doing aberrus as a rogue and i wanted to make sure it was a reliable source of information

[balmy condor]

Every day is a reminder that I haven’t done sepsis

[random tiger]

seems like i keep forgetting to shiv tho lmao

[spice spire]

[royal lantern]

@gaunt moat boss dead

and wanna know what happend

OFC its the pull where i had 0 beacon crits

[gaunt moat]

Congrats!

[royal lantern]

AND get griefed by a warlock that runs into my portal with cloak on cd

cus he didnt wanna walk

and now i got a 4

🙂

🙂

🙂

[gaunt moat]

doesn't matter boss dead, now you're in sark hell

you guys killed echo pretty quickly

[random tiger]

nice y'all, my guild is just started forgotten expirements

[royal lantern]

125pulls kekw

excatly 125

[red dragon]

Hey guys, sorry if this has been asked before but what is the Pandemic that the Faq references when it comes to refreshing garrote?

[tacit otter]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[red dragon]

thats interesting... where do you find this in game?

[random tiger]

from what i understand, if you get the timing just right on your dot reapplications it means the first few seconds of the next dot effectively snapshots the old one?

idk either, sorry Juku

[balmy condor]

You don’t, it’s just a game mechanic

[woeful meteor]

explaining game mechanics

[balmy condor]

Only the time transfers, the damage is entirely based on the new dot, so an 18 second garrote with 7 seconds remaining, refreshed by a new empowered garrote, will be 23.4 seconds of empowered garrote

Empowered garrote refreshed by a regular garrote would be a full duration regular garrote

[random tiger]

I think i was mistaking pandemic to that wierd thing Devouring Plague does

where it can stack in on itself if you spammed it

[red dragon]

so lets say i run a regular garrrote up until 5 seconds, and then i vanish/sepsis and garrote again, it will take the new garrote damage and add in the time? so its purely to make the strong garrote run longer (and time into other big cd's)

[random tiger]

based on whispyr just said, you'll do a new empowered garrote that borrows a few seconds of duration from the old one?

[gaunt moat]

yes

[balmy condor]

We call that an ignite dot. The mutilated flesh damage from doomblade works like that where the damage from mutilate converts to a dot. The damage isn’t lost, it stacks on itself

[idle inlet]

what percent of dps increase is significant when looking at gear?

[balmy condor]

Significant in what regard

Significant as in you’ll notice the change in your regular gameplay?

[balmy condor]

That would be a 23 second empowered garrote

[idle inlet]

maybe a poor way to ask that question i guess I mean like is a .5% increase just the randomness of simming or is that something I should switch to a different piece of gear for

[balmy condor]

Ah

Anything higher than 0.1% is usually outside of margin of error

Sims run with a default margin of error of +-0.05%, you can see it on the right side as well

[idle inlet]

is it weird that I get a dps increase by making my mastery greater than my crit?

[balmy condor]

So if it says 60 dps error on the right in the sim settings that means anything higher than 120 dps is a gain

[balmy condor]

Not necessarily

[idle inlet]

i guess iv just got alot of crit then

[balmy condor]

Stats aren’t a rigid set of unbreakimg laws

Crit > mast is a guideline more than anything

Personal characters can swing wildly depending on trinkets, ilvl, embellishments, special effects such as sark cloak, annulet, eranog ring, tier bonuses

Not having windfury makes haste slightly worse

Not having a demon hunter in your raid makes mastery slightly worse and vers slightly better

Diminishing returns exist, your neck or your ring might have different stats than mine which push a stat harder or not

With a billion factors all combining like that, it’s basically impossible to have one recommendation that fits everyone

especially on a spec like sin where there aren’t outlier stats

[vapid sierra]

Hey guys

I hurt my thumb

[spice spire]

[vestal wren]

[vapid sierra]

I cut my thumbnail too short

[gaunt moat]

huh

[spice spire]

[vapid sierra]

Take my advice

Pay attention when you clip ur nails

[gaunt moat]

no i meant the guy that posted a weird message and removed it

[vapid sierra]

You’ll end up in big pain if you don’t

[vapid sierra]

Didn’t catch it

[royal lantern]

holy shit rogue sucks on sark p1

just praying that the healers keep me alive

[spice spire]

P1 was unnecessary king

[royal lantern]

im on pull #4 man

but like

need cloak for the glitter

and thats it, no other deffensive that works

I LOVE IT

[spice spire]

You can feint the clears iirc

@gusty mirage did a whole thing in it earlier

But he’s busy atm

So u have me, wish.com oxi

[gray crest]

You can feint clears

[gusty mirage]

feint these

[royal lantern]

cool

so i die 2sec later

[gusty mirage]

it's a blast

enjoy

[gray crest]

Gotta use a health pot

Then have it up for p3

[gusty mirage]

it'll take healers about 50-60 pulls to get comfortable in p1 alone

and mind you this is post nerf

[gray crest]

Post accidental over nerf*

[gusty mirage]

nah oblivion was over nerfed

has nothing to do with p1

the funny thing about the oblivion nerf

is if you have more 6+ stacks

you're dead if you're not babysat anyway

all it did was free up some globals for dps from the healers

in terms of survivability it made sitting at 5 stacks less spooky

but when you hit 6-7 stacks you're dead anyway

cause tanks get blasted and they can't babysit someone who can't not stand in stupid

[royal lantern]

im thinking about saying "yeha, 2 rogues is bad cus its 1 of the worst classes here, i volunteer for the bench cus im such a selfless player" rn

[vestal wren]

you can play your passion spec next week

finally a outlaw angle

[royal lantern]

nah

fuck off fuu

respectfully ofc

[vestal wren]

[gusty mirage]

they made fun of me for opening my vault as outlaw on accident and getting a 447 forgestorm

but I'll be the one laughing next week

[vestal wren]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[vestal wren]

outlaw getting to the lead, kinda sad to see HO Outlaw this bad now

[royal lantern]

because you fully lost your mind and play yahtzee pirate

https://tenor.com/view/pedro-pascal-mandalorian-laugh-cry-gif-21495683

[gusty mirage]

138?

brother

2 minute destro

I LAUGH AT YOUR 138

[alpine pagoda]

X D

[spice spire]

Brother 438 destro is rolling rogue up in a blunt and smoking it

[balmy condor]

watching the unholy dk grab a PI and do 5x that

[vestal wren]

don't want to ruin the fun

[gusty mirage]

the pirates are already in depression after the "flow of the spec was ruined" with the fth nerf

[vestal wren]

but avoker will blast everything if it remains as is

[gusty mirage]

let them have this

@vestal wren what's the variance on that sim out of curiosity

[vestal wren]

for what spec

[gusty mirage]

outlaw

I suppose I could check myself

[vestal wren]

outlaw

sub

[gusty mirage]

14.5%

[vestal wren]

but lets make it easier to compare

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7HXeJ1U4PwA7thTCbKhWHC/simc

[gusty mirage]

my god

[vestal wren]

outlaw apm is wild, like always

[runic hinge]

I have too much brain lag for OL

[vestal wren]

in the end all 3 specs are still close

[rancid nimbus]

I'm too old and slow for OL xD

[vestal wren]

so its play what you want

people put too much thought into ~1% dps diffrences

[cerulean nest]

our evoker got his leggo this week. ggs for my meter dominance

[rancid nimbus]

how does that leggo work? the bonus effect goes to the evoker?

[cerulean nest]

it boosts primary stat of someone else using their CDs when he uses his CDs

our warrior recieved it the most for some reason

[vapid sierra]

I wanna go back to ol

But don’t want my hand to hurt

That shit was carpal tunnel inducing

Tbf i was Being pretty agressive with key presses

[loud gull]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[cerulean nest]

ol was a wild ride

[spice surge]

Bro have you seen MM?

They have like 22%

[vapid sierra]

I played it all last tier and my hands probably hurt towards the end of raid like half the time

Going back tho now that kir is Gucci

[cerulean nest]

been waiting for sin to be competitive for a while. I'm loving it currently

[balmy condor]

60 APM assassination fuck me

sephuz is waking up in a cold sweat

[solid mica]

Perfect apm

[vapid sierra]

Sin apm feels just right

[vestal wren]

60 fps, 60 apm

perfect

[vapid sierra]

But if it’s 60 that insinuâtes that’s we click something every 1 second on average no?

[balmy condor]

yes

[vapid sierra]

I find myself pooling

Energy

[balmy condor]

okay

[vapid sierra]

Maybe it has to do with blindside procs later

Or some shit or just like a rough estimate

[balmy condor]

there are things you click that aren't on the gcd

[vapid sierra]

I’m reading into this too much

[vestal wren]

you have cooldowns too that are off gcd

so you can have more than 1 key press per sec

[vapid sierra]

Only thing I can think of would be tea

[balmy condor]

bomb dispenser

[vestal wren]

trinekts, tea, vanish

[agile osprey]

Racial, pot

[vapid sierra]

Fair enough

[vestal wren]

but its one button press per second on average ^^

[vapid sierra]

Out of curiosity how did you calculate it?

I trust your work and the numbers obviously

[wooden atlas]

How is assassin getting overlooked for 10.1.5 buffs

[vapid sierra]

Just curious as to how you’d track something like this

[vestal wren]

simc calculates it based on the events

[gusty mirage]

how is it getting overlooked for the annulet compensation buff that assassination doesn't run at high enough gear levels?

[vestal wren]

i didn't calculate it

[vapid sierra]

Makes sense

[vestal wren]

^ assassination did not use annulet or eranog ring so it is basically unchanged in 10.1.5

[vapid sierra]

Only spec that still uses eggnog ring is sub no?

[vestal wren]

sub/outlaw both got compensation buffs that also bring them a bit up in overall dps

[vapid sierra]

Until .5

[vestal wren]

subtlety does not use eranog even now

thats because you can't reliably proc it

[vapid sierra]

Shadow flame enchant no good?

Or sophic just better st

[vestal wren]

you could make up for it by using shadowflame enchant for example

or cowl

but suddenly you use a embellishment that does no dps

[gusty mirage]

the shadowflame enchant is dog water

[vestal wren]

or a enchant that does significantly worse than sophic

and with eranog nerfed

you can throw the ring out of the window

[gusty mirage]

throw me out of the window too

pls

[vestal wren]

out of the window, in the pool to cool you off with the current heatwaves that go around

[gusty mirage]

out of the window onto some hard surface is fine

I'm not picky

[vestal wren]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-pool-chill-flamingo-gif-22586025

[gusty mirage]

I'll be in so much pain I'll forget how hot it is

🫠

[vapid sierra]

I like hot weather ngl

Don’t mind it the way other people do

[woeful meteor]

how often does varas still show up now that game time is gone?

[gusty mirage]

I shouldn't live somewhere where it goes below freezing to dangerous levels in the winter and this hot in the summer

this is not okay for my emotional health

[woeful meteor]

debating if I dm him or wait while I app for his old raid spot 😄

[vapid sierra]

How hot is it oxi

[gusty mirage]

@subtle tundra

[gusty mirage]

do you use celsius or stupid units

[woeful meteor]

I guess that's an option aswell

[gusty mirage]

86 F/30C w/ 65% humidity

🫠

[vapid sierra]

Celsius

[gusty mirage]

it was 34C w/ 80% humidity yesterday

[subtle tundra]

Garrrr

[vapid sierra]

That’s not bad

[gusty mirage]

🫠

[spice surge]

Its baffling how they never made it able to crit

Like that would instantly make it good for sub/outlaw

[subtle tundra]

I still argue with people about assa in m+

[spice surge]

Since thats like +50% dps

[gusty mirage]

it's baffling how janky everything's been this tier in general

[vapid sierra]

I’m from Canada, -30 in the winters is typical and then 25 during the summer is normal

[woeful meteor]

good cant have them cooking up to much

[vapid sierra]

I’m in Beirut right now tho, it’s like 30 and really humid

[gusty mirage]

homie there's a dif between 25 and 30 w/ 60%+ humidity

see if I'm beirut

I'm okay with 30 and humid

I'm next to a giant ass sea

I'm not next to anything here

[vapid sierra]

I got the best view of the sea

[gusty mirage]

I got some jank ass lakes

[vapid sierra]

Nor am I back home, just lakes no one likes

[gusty mirage]

and I suffer because of it

ontario?

[vapid sierra]

Yup

[gusty mirage]

oh so we have the same temps

glad I'm not suffering alone

[vapid sierra]

You also form Ontario?

[gusty mirage]

michigan

[vapid sierra]

Close enough

[gusty mirage]

pretty much canada yea

lmao

[vapid sierra]

Canada but with guns

[gusty mirage]

and fatter people

[vapid sierra]

Canada got some pretty fat people

[gusty mirage]

I blame burger king buying tim hortons

they ruined timmies

[vapid sierra]

We got some sugar factories here or some shit

[gusty mirage]

[vapid sierra]

The second timmies started selling 2 chicken strips for 8$ shit went down the drain

[gusty mirage]

rip to the best cheap coffee there was

[vapid sierra]

They made a good ass frozen lemonade

[winter gale]

I shouldn't use Crippling on Echo Mythic?

It's not ideal to slow those small void adds I guess

[vapid sierra]

Crippling with sin?

In raid? Am i missing something or do we only run amp+atrophic+deadly+instant

[gusty mirage]

that's 3 damage poisons

which uh

[vapid sierra]

Sorry

Remove instant

Amp atro and deadly

[gusty mirage]

tell your ranged to man up

tell them to not stand in melee

sounds like a them issue

[winter gale]

There is no issue, I just watched Endwyr's video and there is no Crippling Poison on that POV so I came here to double check as it's going to die tonight most likely

[vapid sierra]

No one runs crippling in raid since it takes a poison slot basically

[spice spire]

The beauty of this is, you can ask their POV directly. @desert inlet did you not run crippling for a specific reason? I’m actually curious now, enjoy watching your POVs btw

[spice spire]

You can use two of each though

[gusty mirage]

her*

[spice spire]

I actually don’t know the gender of this person, good call. (I watch a lot of pov muted at work)

I’m an idiot that assumes gender of gamers

[gusty mirage]

smh assuming genders in 2023

I'm cancelling you on twitter as soon as I remember my login

[main vessel]

[winter gale]

Ask them? 😄

[spice spire]

Unironically and actually awful of me here ngl

[desert inlet]

ty oxi

[subtle stream]

I k now, right? The nerve(s) of that individual.

[spice spire]

I just did

I’m so sorry

[desert inlet]

tanks didn't really need the slow and I didn't wanna cripple the homies

[spice spire]

Ty!

[winter gale]

Ty all ❤️

[hardy plaza]

Reading over the patchnotes and I'm wondering why we aren't getting any compensation for the onyx annulet like the others. It's bad enough we aren't getting the rework we were promised...

[winter gale]

Keep ur good work @desert inlet

[gusty mirage]

[gusty mirage]

we don't use it

[woeful meteor]

cause annulet isn't good?

[gusty mirage]

assassination replaces the annulet

[spice spire]

We don’t use it at a certain point y

So like

Yeah

[gusty mirage]

so getting a compensation buff is kinda pointless

[hardy plaza]

What's that point? 447?

[storm belfry]

Assume the position

[woeful meteor]

depends double 441 no socket was enough for me

[hardy plaza]

It's still doing over 10% overall damage

[spice spire]

Nah 441 good rings should do it (maybe with sockets)

[hardy plaza]

There's no way it's doing better than 441

[spice spire]

Yeah but replace that 10% with more damage done because stats

[hardy plaza]

it's not*

[gusty mirage]

I mean annulet is currently a 0.2% dps loss for me

and I have a 441 and crafted ring

so

[spice spire]

It’s higher for me

I have two 447 rings with sockets tho

[gusty mirage]

it would be for me too but I'm not recrafting it vers/mastery and you can't make me

[hardy plaza]

Have you actually tested it or are you going purely off of sims

[spice spire]

Oh no

[gusty mirage]

I mean if we're going to play that angle

the ring procs are rppm

so you could low roll procs

and do 4% of your overall with it

[hardy plaza]

I typically try it personally instead of sims and that's why I found it better than a 441 at least. I don't have a 447 ring to play around with yet.

[gusty mirage]

if anything the sims are generous with averaging out items with rppm procs

like your sophic devotion that you're running? can low roll

[spice spire]

Damn

[gusty mirage]

for example @earnest remnant 's malding earlier

[spice spire]

I was about to do it

[hardy plaza]

lmao

[gusty mirage]

but in reality, annulet can high roll procs

and you'll be JUICED

[spice spire]

Any 7% CFs in chat @earnest remnant @limber lion
Love sophic

[gusty mirage]

then you'll get pulls where you get fucked on procs

and that's why we hate rppm stuff

[subtle stream]

It’s essentially dead on the 15th anyway…

[spice surge]

I had a 2 min eranog last tier where it didnt even proc a single time

[gusty mirage]

you too?

[spice spire]

[subtle stream]

Eranog is relevant.

[gusty mirage]

just bring back the bfa enchants man

sophic is so fucking dumb

[spice spire]

Man one thing I really hate is the rng procs of everything on sin

[hardy plaza]

I have an insane amount of crit and it does crit nicely

[spice spire]

The 7% sophic was taken over and normalize by the 32% blindside procs

Like

[royal lantern]

i hate that because i liked assa for beeing a consistant spec with lower rng most of the time lol

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

That’s an insane amount of rng

[gusty mirage]

you called me a crazy person

I KNEW I WAS RIGHT

[earnest remnant]

now check rashok

[gusty mirage]

stealthi defeated passassin

[earnest remnant]

i got redeemed

[spice spire]

Winnable

[gusty mirage]

he'll be enshrined in the rogue hall of fame that I just made up in my brain

[royal lantern]

who is in that hall of fame

[gusty mirage]

seli for being a dinosaur who can play wow

got em

@spice spire will be there because idk man a dog mythic raiding is pretty impressive

[royal lantern]

tru

[gusty mirage]

and @spice surge for being eleem

[spice spire]

Also I wasn’t kidding

[gusty mirage]

lmao sick sophic devotion uptime nerd

[spice spire]

Literally 32% blindside

Wtf

[gusty mirage]

fucking loser

[spice surge]

I got 4, 5 and 7s today

Never r1

[royal lantern]

i also got a 4

4 parse

[shy pecan]

[gusty mirage]

boss dead

you won the game

[royal lantern]

yes

still salty

[gusty mirage]

who cares about number on stupid website

[spice spire]

What you don’t see is for also some reason I have 39% uptime on WFT

[royal lantern]

fking warlock

greeding for dps

killing me

[spice spire]

Prog parses are whatever

[gusty mirage]

have you tried telling your enhance to put WFT down?

I hear that helps a lot

[spice spire]

Boss kill gg get it on farm

[royal lantern]

IM JUST SALTY CUS IT WAS SO AVOIDABLE MAN

[spice spire]

I have

[gusty mirage]

unfortunate

[spice spire]

New guild new enhance (they’re apparently everywhere now)

[gusty mirage]

I had that happen to me on prog

[soft shale]

i had a no proccer too

[gusty mirage]

then I started saving cloak for it

and on one pull

[royal lantern]

its a strong spec for a long time now and is a 100% secure raidspot

[gusty mirage]

he took my portal again

so I cloaked and ran in

and he died

[royal lantern]

i used cloak for the 2nd explosion

cus like, not stacking dot and shitr

[spice spire]

God bless green name rite of passage

[gusty mirage]

just beacon him on reclear

[soft shale]

we are just made diff

[gusty mirage]

or

or

hear me out

blind his tyrant

[soft shale]

i have always been unlucky tho

now i know what to do next time that fucker goes russia on my ass with his tyrand

im blinding him

[gusty mirage]

start using fok to build off their imps and dogs

[hardy plaza]

Okay what. I've never checked sophic procs. 3 in a boss fight? I didn't realize it was that low.

[gusty mirage]

just go full terrorism mode

[soft shale]

and kidney his felguard

[gusty mirage]

then send him this gif:

https://tenor.com/view/alpacino-godfather-gif-9737867

[soft shale]

cheat procs randomly

i wonder why

i look

[gusty mirage]

if you want I offer lessons in toxicity every wednesday from 1pm EST to 5pm EST

[soft shale]

you mother of a galleta

[gusty mirage]

were you also getting ice lanced for 112k?

[spice spire]

Yeah that’s why rppm is best used in simulation for normalizing instead of going balls deep on singular events and kills. It’s going to vary a bit

[gusty mirage]

or was that just me

[spice spire]

Splitting ice?

[soft shale]

our mages at least have the heart to play arcane

[spice spire]

Surely

[soft shale]

but wait when fire brain goes online

[gusty mirage]

something got split and it was my asshole

[soft shale]

and we are getting ignited

ZA QUL PTSD

[spice spire]

Amen brother

[hardy plaza]

why is sophic valued so highly then? is there no alternative?

[soft shale]

BRO I WANT TO PLAY THE GAAAAME

[gusty mirage]

cause when it does proc it does a shit ton of damage

[soft shale]

that is correct sophic is just too good

we had hopes in the flame wreathe

but it was too weak

[hardy plaza]

crazy. I don't know why I thought it procced a lot more.

[spice spire]

Wafting could also be good but that’s a simmer

[gusty mirage]

unlucky can't crit

sucks

[spice spire]

Because a lot of people have misconceptions? Like the start of this conversation

[gray horizon]

tbf i just let you guys figure it out and then i show up and hit buttons

and try my hardest

[gusty mirage]

both heroic rashok kills

[soft shale]

also our class trink vs warlock one

[hardy plaza]

is it too much to ask for consistency :[

[gusty mirage]

yo hear me out

[soft shale]

what is that classcism

[gusty mirage]

what if we designed high ilvl trinkets

base them on class

but only give one of them something tied to a cooldown

how cool would that be

make the rest random procs

because fuck em

[soft shale]

yea maybe then they will learn

to play real classes

survival going brrrr

[gusty mirage]

sadly, apparently it is. We've moved further and further to rng rppm procs on stuff

[soft shale]

rogue goes please proc my boi

i havent eaten a proc in 2 days in DM

[gusty mirage]

which is super annoying

I had someone DM me once asking why he's performing poorly on a log

and he was doing everything right

[soft shale]

man every time i see pandaria trinkets

105 cd

[gusty mirage]

he just got screwed on sophic & annulet procs

[soft shale]

IT PROCS ON PULL

[gusty mirage]

and at that point, what can you do?

[soft shale]

then every 105 secs

[spice spire]

Blindside seal fate

Wdym consistency

[gusty mirage]

I mean seal fate is consistent

you either crit or you don't

lol

[hardy plaza]

that shit either procs a ton or never unless it's execute range

[spice spire]

Ur a real one for that oxi

Let’s revisit 9.1 fan of knives

[gusty mirage]

yes

[soft shale]

fok 1 c

[gusty mirage]

I loved 1cp FoK w/ my 49% crit

[hardy plaza]

echoing blades when?

[soft shale]

fok 1 cp

[spice spire]

When we were at 52% crit and got 1cp

[gusty mirage]

I started mutilating in aoe

because I got annoyed

AMA

[hardy plaza]

lmao

[gusty mirage]

at least a non-mutilate crit gives me 2cp

fuck it

lmao

[spice spire]

My log above has 32% of the fight me getting bs procs. Simply constructed in a different manner

[gusty mirage]

non crit-mutilate*

[spice spire]

Remember when you’d mutilate with ma on jailer and only get 3cp?

Pepperidge farm remembers

[hardy plaza]

actually I saw earlier there were some changes to echoing blades and other azerite "abilities" what was the point of that? we can't use them. was it a hint at what we might have gotten?

[gusty mirage]

so true bestie

[royal lantern]

49% crit and 0beacon crits in 4casts

[soft shale]

because of aura changes

[gusty mirage]

80%+ crit

3cp mutilate

[royal lantern]

gues im just bad

[gusty mirage]

@spice spire explain this to me

[earnest remnant]

we got some shinies today

[soft shale]

that is dino town

[spice spire]

Skill issue tbh

[soft shale]

at least class trink is getting closer in dps next patch

[gusty mirage]

of those 18 blindside procs

[soft shale]

so i can ditch blue pill on st and aoe at least

[gusty mirage]

most of them happened early in the fight

????????

[spice spire]

We’re off the goop

Trust

[silk bane]

I was getting becon'd

[spice spire]

There’s no phantom change in ba seng se

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

Or whatever avatar says

[soft shale]

i just hope i get cloak soon so i can also feel the power

of it always proccing outside cds

[gusty mirage]

dw

It won't proc sometimes at all

and you'll really feel the power of subtracting that stamina

we love rppm stuff

[spice spire]

Today is the rppm talk ig

[reef nacelle]

hey, can someone help me with a question regarding warcraftlogs performance%s and the toggle for ilvl ranking? Is the default of the page ilvl based %s?

[spice spire]

No

Default is overall %

[reef nacelle]

Hm. I figured my % would be better compared to just my ilvl vs overall

[spice spire]

You can adjust it to show ilvl % but they’re pretty flawed in how they work

Like if someone is 430 but has a 450 main hand, they’ll obviously perform better since that’s a huge deal

Or huge trinket, etc

[reef nacelle]

oh, gotcha. so overall is just a better thing to pay attention to. word.

[spice spire]

Mostly but also if you’re normal ilvl going into heroic, it’ll be really hard to parse well overall.
So it’s kind of all just a silly number innit

Recognizing mistakes and improving on those is usually best. But parse number make brain feel good too

[reef nacelle]

eh, I'm just tracking myself from my lfr runs, I don't even do normal, I'm just trying to see if I'm getting better week to week, but found that toggle today and it broke my brain.

[spice spire]

Understandable

If you want to see improvement on your play WoW analyzer is also pretty good (though not fully updated with sepsis yet)

For sin specifically

[reef nacelle]

oh sweet, hadn't looked at this before. thanks.

[spice spire]

No worries good luck!

[chilly crypt]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[limber lion]

I had a 1 second Sophic the other day. Motherfucker proc'd just as the boss died.

[spice spire]

Dog it’s a travesty. I’m telling you

[balmy condor]

damn lasted longer than me tho

[spice spire]

Lasted longer on sark than u without cocoon*

[spice surge]

Whispyr proccing on pull irl

[spice spire]

This main ain’t ever pulled in his life (innuendo)

[sharp falcon]

Crimson Tempest

of all the sin buttons, it is one of them

do you have an opinion about it? tell me (without @ otherwise whispyr will assassinate u)

[limber lion]

I personally like CT for the AoE DoT part but don't care about the initial damage and balancing it for AoE (not ST) can be tricky without it going into spam territory (which is not bueno). Maintenance and decision making good, spam bad.

Assassination has always been about maintaining and tracking bleeds and I enjoy the fact that you introduce a new bleed in AoE. CT is a good button, much more than something like SnD which we have to press even if there's like 10 mobs just because of how strong it is.

[balmy condor]

I'm adjusting the scope on the sniper rifle atm

[limber lion]

As long as I can maintain CT on AoE without having to spam it, I'm happy. Not sure if that's a CT problem or a problem with Envenom and things tied to it. Pressing Envenom without PB in AoE ain't it chief

Or even more so with IC giving us perma gar/rupture so the only finishers we use are ct and maybe envenom, we barely press rupture. We press it like twice between IC casts and that's a bit sadge

[keen spruce]

[limber lion]

I would personally enjoy IC with a much longer cooldown and more power tied to it, instead of it being something we rely on on every single pack. IC is super dank but takes a bit away from the gar/rup/ct maintenance cycle

Anyways, going off board. CT big pog, haters gon hate.

[balmy condor]

I think I would like CT more if the aoe didn't feel so crowded to begin with but right now it feels like CT is like a dam holding back a flood

Without CT you still have poison bomb, and you have envenoms buff to apply mass poisons in aoe, and you have just a gestures vaguely multidotting, and its like the spec is trying to have all the concepts at once, which ends up making none of them good. In legion we had poison knives as a trait, which made fan of knives crits do a portion of deadly poisons damage instantly, then in BFA we had very strong garrote/rupture multidotting with scent of blood and shrouded suffocation. Later in the expansion we had echoing blades giving fok crits the lime light again. In shadowlands we went back to garrote/rupture, but this time with a focus on priority/boss dps with flagellation, or more cleave with bone spike. Crimson Tempest has always stood in those eras as its own little thing that's sort of raising the aoe floor of the spec amongst the bigger design, but struggling to be its own thing. It struggles between "it's just a rupture that hits everything", "it's just black powder", and "why am I pressing this in single target"

[royal lantern]

im not gonna read all of that

so im happy for you

[white orchid]

It falls short of being a black powder up front aoe finisher, so it sits in a weird spot that honestly I wouldn’t miss if it was gone if it was replaced with other aoe gameplays that we had in the past that whysper just mentioned.

[balmy condor]

at one point many moons ago the idea was brought up to flip venomous wounds, so instead of bleed ticks on a poisoned target, it would be poison ticks on a bleeding target. That would allow crimson tempest to sort of control its own energy and take the pressure off of garrote/rupture, allowing them to just do damage

there's other implications of it obviously

but it was an interesting idea

[limber lion]

Assuming they did damage that is.

Otherwise it's just FOK CT FOK CT

[balmy condor]

you would have a clear idea of maintaining envenom for the energy, rather than trying to shoe-horn it into aoe by tacking things like poison bomb onto it as a shield to keep big bad CT out of single target

[distant birch]

Hey guys, i have a question. I'm actually on Neltha mythic and i'm not sure if i need to play assa (sepsis build). What do you guys think about that? sub or assa?

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean it's not as easy and just flip the words obviously and would need a lot of thought

but ya know

[balmy condor]

they both do pretty much the same thing on nelth

I personally think assa is better frankly because most guilds will be hitting the immunity in p2

and then you get a fat p3 execute

sub would just kinda be punching the air while the boss is sitting immune on the last add

[distant birch]

Sounds goosd

[limber lion]

I honestly think my favorite version of Assassination in m+ was SBS Assassination in SL, but the problem back then was that literally nothing did damage. But the gameplay was pretty smooth.

[distant birch]

Moreover, if you are target by any spells your poison continued to do some dmg on boss / Same with the placement

idk

[tacit otter]

same i always dreamed of that gameplay + ss would be so nice to play

[balmy condor]

yeh this is basically just PoV assassination AoE identity crisis to me. You have stealth garrotes that want to do damage, you have rupture though that also technically should be doing damage, but then you also have sbs that should be doing damage, and you have crimson tempest on top which should be doing damage

and then none of it is

you got 25 tools for the job

but none of them are actually doing it

they're just crowding it

add on top of all of that, the fact that we keep getting fok damage conduits and talents and azerite traits and artifact traits for the last 4 expansions

which like, would be fine

if it weren't just piling onto the issue

is fok also supposed to do damage now

[limber lion]

I liked SS Assa in BFA but it was SUPER frontloaded and the only things doing damage were the garrotes, everything else was filler. It was probably the most fun I had because I felt like I was doing damage and I knew when I had the damage and where it was coming from so I had more control over it. But I did not enjoy the gameplay after the garrotes ended. From doing OMEGA GIGA 500K DPS to doing 50k until vanish comes up again. Eh.

[balmy condor]

so generators, bleeds, finishers AND poisons

all at once?

[limber lion]

Absolutely.

[wooden radish]

did assassination used to be a good choice for PI back in the day?

[limber lion]

I could gladly play 8.2 Assassination for eternity in M+ and be somewhat happy. I like the loop of Garrote doing the biggest chunk of our damage, but I don't like that the only way to achieve that is (was) with Vanish.

[limber lion]

What is "back in the day"?

[wooden radish]

anytime in historyu

i swear it was a good choice at one point

[limber lion]

PI was reintroduced in Shadowlands, wasn't there for many many years prior

[wooden radish]

SL then

[spice spire]

I like CT as a button, it fits very well as the bleed class. However, the current loop of sending it ad nauseam and/or using envenom to pray and proc a poison bomb charge in aoe is pretty

It’s also always been finicky, do I wish it did more damage? Absolutely, but if it does more, it becomes ST viable. Which seems to be a lot of our gate when it comes to design. If I turn x knob higher does it become a gain for ST and make it too oppressively strong?

I’m also of the minority that doesn’t mind CT single target (to maintain as a dot, nothing more) but I’m also special

[balmy condor]

BFA assassination was the most defined I think which is why a lot of people enjoyed it. Yeah EB warped the spec like crazy where we were just spamming fok, but it did exactly what it was supposed to do and it was very clear what the idea was. "Stack the funny fok trait, make a big aoe fok, push the big fok because it's big". Or with Shrouded "stack the funny garrote trait, push the stealth button, spam BIG garrotes from stealth for big bursty cleave". Both of them were crazy bonkers strong and single handedly shaped the specs identity during that time, but you had your concept and you executed it and it did what you thought it would do

[balmy condor]

it was okay during some parts of shadowlands

still not as good as warlocks or mages most of the time

but it was fine

[spice spire]

Now KA

[balmy condor]

or boomkin

[spice spire]

That was an external (I hated)

[balmy condor]

kindred affinity was THE rogue external

(it was literally just because of sylv daggers)

[spice spire]

(But also NF fire mages)

Or wait

Was it NF enhance and fire mages

[balmy condor]

it was double sylv dagger rogues, fire mage, and then like, just give it to the venth boomkin anyway because they already got a pi and they're doing 5x more burst than the rest of the raid combined fuck it we ball

[limber lion]

Exactly, knowing where the damage is coming from and how to get more of it is pretty big.

Honestly, give me giga garrotes and more ways to get them (in AoE) and I'm a happy camper. And remove Slice. Fuck Slice.

[spice surge]

I agree with this, "spamming" CT even though its a dot spell feels odd, but also, is spamming envenoms very fun in aoe? Eh

Big garrotes was very fun indeed

[limber lion]

No, but spreading Ruptures is. Which is something that we don't do at all anymore because of IC

[spice spire]

Yeah

Don’t get me wrong IC is really really good

But that leaves me wanting now

Whereas before I was always busy - now it feels very. Empty?

[balmy condor]

delete IC, make crimson tempest a cooldown that does big damage and replicates your dots

sorry I left the stove on

I'm gonna go back to my maplestory dailies

[torn lava]

couldnt you just keep IC and remove CT then

[spice surge]

Spreading ruptures to maintain energy for fok isnt particularly interesting to me either (in the iterations where rupture didnt do a whole lot of damage and was mostly for the regen)

[balmy condor]

I never said I was smart

[spice surge]

But then we just circle back to the too many cooks in the kitchen problem of having too many spells that all do not much

[spice spire]

Vein ripper (or whatever the power was from torghast)

[torn lava]

Maybe controversial take

I would love to see sinister calling from wod sub in assa

bleed advancing on BS mainhand crits or something

[balmy condor]

holy shit

https://tenor.com/view/my-man-my-man-hd-my-man4k-gif-23532578

[torn lava]

mut rather

[balmy condor]

(I've only been asking for sinister calling back for 4.5 years now)

[spice spire]

I didn’t play wod

I don’t know what this is

[torn lava]

it fills the exsang niche of dots not being super mega boring all the time without being kinda cringe

[limber lion]

Yeah IC should be the ITS TIME TO BIG DICK BURST BOYS GRAB YOUR SAFETY GOGGLES LADS BECAUSE ITS ABOUT TO GET MESSY -button, not something you rely on every pull.

[spice spire]

Good point

It would be nice to have an aoe cooldown

[torn lava]

idk when realz is around again I'd love to hear his opinion on SC in the current version of assa

[spice spire]

Beyond an aoe cd maintaining dots

[torn lava]

super ST but also something that gives you a lot of variety pull to pull with timing stuff kinda cool imo

[spice spire]

He literally started this conversation

[spice surge]

Or if you want it to be up for every pull it should have like 20s cd instead so we can always have it and not sometimes be stuck without it, exactly like spriests and their shadowcrash

But ye i would much prefer it as a big long cd instead

[limber lion]

Hell no

[torn lava]

about SC speficially? I know he was talking about CT

[balmy condor]

someimtes I still hear his voice

[limber lion]

Because IC is the reason we never use garrote and rupture

[spice spire]

Oh no just the conversation at large

[limber lion]

IC literally kills multidotting which is the specs identity. No gucci

[torn lava]

oh yeah for sure

[spice spire]

Do you hear mine? 🥹

[limber lion]

Or was.

[balmy condor]

nah

[spice spire]

Damn

[spice surge]

I agree with you, but its just in a odd middleground now where you sometimes need to do it and it feels terrible because your mostly using IC

[wooden radish]

Just reading through everything you've said about things that went well for Ass in the past 30mins, what are your feelings for 10.2 in the way of 'reworking' ass, like what would you like to see or predict will happen?

[limber lion]

IC is so sick, we shouldn't have it available so often.

Make it 4mins and increase the damage bleeds do by 100%.

Ez

[spice spire]

If ic cranked instant damage = to dots sent + applied

Long dot too?

[tacit otter]

thats the perfect plug for saturday podcast or?

[limber lion]

PERMANENT dot from IC

Sheesj

[wooden radish]

yeah mate

[spice spire]

No not perma. Just apply the dot and the full damage from the dot on 8 targets, long cooldown

[limber lion]

And no AOE cap. 1000% extra damage, permanent gar/rup and 30min cooldown.

[winged kindle]

Has the location of CT in the tree been addressed? I know lots of discussion on how sin does damage in AoE, but are there opinions on where it could go in the tree to help reduce the ST loss

[spice spire]

[limber lion]

Pull the entire instance I'm about to unload on these suckas

[spice spire]

Time for flying daggers boys and girls

[limber lion]

I should be sleeping, alarm in 4 hours and concert in 6 hours

[spice spire]

Cev get some rest man.
And good luck on the concert tomorrow man holy heck (not that you need it, ur cracked)

[limber lion]

<3

Morning concerts are the worst man

[sharp falcon]

Reading all the CT thoughts, ty ty

@limber lion "we barely press rupture. We press it like twice between IC casts and that's a bit sadge" - this is an inroad to another good topic. It is very difficult in modern game to work backwards towards "I miss when I used to manually apply Ruptures in AoE, once per 3 globals." The game is just too fast to do exactly that, which makes it difficult to use it as a historic model for success. Might be possible if modified in the right way to get at similar feels without copy pasting the exact mechanics and timing... but yeah, IC is effective but obviously a very different feel.

also my bad, go do a sleep!

[balmy condor]

I'm just gonna rapid fire, hate exsang, 3 point nodes gone, want aoe that's clear and strong (don't care for CT much but if it stays and has its purpose, more than happy), multi-dotting should be just a core of the spec without needing IC to carry it. Kingsbane should be the pick in single target over dtb with no question. On a long shot I think evasion should actually do something that people younger than 35 can understand cause "100% chance to dodge" doesn't make a damn lick of sense half the time. Why can't I dodge a boss slam, but I can dodge the wall breaking debuff on nelth? Why can I dodge only some boss charges but not others? Hate it. I also think the class tree needs a couple minutes in a blender cause wooowee some of the stuff on there respectfully makes my eyes bleed. Blackjack being so central as a point-skipping measure, all the weirdness of nightstalker and the shadow dance side just being a mess for sin/sub because of find weakness. Large amount of damage in the bottom of the tree, seal fate being so core to assassinations gameplay loop that it forces half our points down the left side to begin with, cold blood just being macro'd to whatever spell is the strongest at the time

[gusty mirage]

if you say vein ripper 3 times while staring into a mirror seli appears in your room

[spice spire]

Promise?

[wooden radish]

thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[balmy condor]

also I actually like ER for the layer of gameplay it gives because a lot of time combo points (and more recently energy as well), aren't really things to think about

but I know a lot of people hate it

so idk

I would prefer if ER was just always 4 cp baseline and reverberation doesn't need to exist

let ER be the combo point gameplay

and put something else behind it or in front of it or whatever

but yeh

big anti-fan of the class tree atm

[gusty mirage]

the dream of iron wire + dance in keys died and that makes me sad

[balmy condor]

Idk bout died

It had to be alive for it to die

[gusty mirage]

it was always alive in my heart

how dare you

[balmy condor]

The moment we saw just how bad m+ without seal fate would be, it was RIP dance

[spice spire]

I love 1cp fans

[balmy condor]

And dance being locked behind ambush points when we wanted it for garrotes

And find weakness doing nothing

Just kinda put it in the dirt forever

[gusty mirage]

yep

[wooden radish]

Couldn't they change Flying Daggers to Echoing Blades?

[balmy condor]

Even during beta when dance was like GIGA crazy with the 40% damage buff or whatever I remember running the numbers and still struggling to justify dance

[gusty mirage]

also MA in the spec tree just seems so sad and out of place

rn it's just a way to get to iron wire without having to take exsang

[runic hinge]

Reading people with more experience and expertise on this spec than myself is always so interesting

[balmy condor]

I mean they could but that doesn’t really solve any issues

It just replaces a fok talent with a stronger fok talent

[limber lion]

Yeah, the loud ones here (Whispyr and I) are Assassination OTP's who have played the same spec for 5+ years now, we're looking through rose-tinted glasses, but also as people who love the spec and want the best for it. Not sure what a newer player who picks up the game for the first time might think about multidotting and the old way of spreading dots. Would they hate it or prefer it? Honestly no clue, probably very subjective. Obviously the similar thing has come up for Warlocks and Shadow Priests alike and they're leaning more toward the IC-route. It's a tough one.

[balmy condor]

I’ll beat you over the head with a cello if you don’t sleep

[wooden radish]

Scent of blood being 12/24 would be nice too

instead of 8/16/24

3 points is so dam expensive

[gusty mirage]

I mean my honest take on IC, is IC is fine as is. It just doesn't feel like a capstone. It's a QoL talent (which ngl I appreciate more than other old timers) in a capstone spot. I think if it had some kind of damage amp tied to it and had an increased CD it'd appease those who want to spend 3-4 globals spreading rupture, and appease those who want a "gg ez" set up button for aoe, and it would make it more impactful

current iteration of IC, if it were moved up, to like where exsang is for example, would also synergize well with iron wire

[spice surge]

Without having stuff like big stealth garrotes i think applying ruptures manually is going to feel kinda lackluster in todays m+ environment, especially on lower keys. Its really fun on council type bosses but most of the time in m+ you kinda feel like you just got started by the time the pack is dying (unless youre pushing like +25s but ecksdee)

[gusty mirage]

IC into Iron Wire on the tree just makes sense to me

[sharp falcon]

just literal time-wise, the exact mechanics of how it's worked historically wouldn't work today. Auto-spread is one 'solution', or other gimmicks like temporarily being able to Rupt every global could also work... but really hard to get an exact same feel. yeah. anyways we can talk on it later, SLEEP

[gusty mirage]

this is typical cev, "ok im off to bed" stays awake for another 2 hours

then wakes up tired the next day

[spice spire]

He’s a stubborn lad Realz

[gusty mirage]

and gets mad at himself

[limber lion]

I'm a big fan of manually tracking every rupture and garrote instead of everything together as one entity behind IC but I'm a dumbo. IC also has the awkward problem where ALL ruptures and garrotes drop at the same time, so you have to manually refresh stuff early (on top of IG Garrotes or whatever) or starve yourself while doing so after the initial bleeds drop.

[gusty mirage]

[royal lantern]

cev, no

[spice spire]

You get used to it

[royal lantern]

sleepy time cev

[limber lion]

Good night 💋

[gusty mirage]

I'll fly to finland and put you to bed if you don't sleep right now

[spice spire]

Good night buddy. I’d find it hard to sleep too 😛

[spice spire]

Is that supposed to be a threat???

[royal lantern]

threaten him with a great time

[wooden radish]

IC becomes handly because pulls in M+ are so fast now, if you spread your dots manually like before, the pack will almost be dead by the time you're spending GCDs on the 8th target

[sharp falcon]

i like to be tucked in, answer is yes if that's included

[gusty mirage]

I also enjoyed juggling bleeds in aoe fwiw, that's why I think if IC had an increased CD + damage amp it would be more stomachable for the spreading rupture gang

[gusty mirage]

always, and a bed time story

[sharp falcon]

prefer singing a song, but bedtime story is ok

[gusty mirage]

understandable

[spice surge]

Based lullaby enjoyer

[gusty mirage]

@balmy condor you're a music major, teach me how to sing

[balmy condor]

What’s your favorite bedtime song

[blazing jewel]

Can that be pinned

[spice spire]

No

We pin useful info here

[gusty mirage]

don't you have to wipe on echo?

[spice spire]

oT is for the memes

[blazing jewel]

[sharp falcon]

music major --> must know how to sing

[balmy condor]

Technically yeah

Singing classes are part of the major

[royal lantern]

im still convinced that fok overall needs a bit of a change that makes it feel less...bad on those situations where you have 4000enemys, press it and get 1cp

allready had the weird brainstorm once, that maybe fok should give a CP for each enemy it hits that has rupture on them (or as a talent with flying daggers, idk), so that you can eventualy get that faster cp generation and at the same time get rewarded for multidotting

[spice spire]

Like when Realz told deeny to get good

[royal lantern]

like, just a thought

[gusty mirage]

I mean people assume I know what I'm talking about regarding legal things it's only fair I dish it back

[spice spire]

That was OT worthy