assassination

[woeful meteor]

the week that just started for NA is a 1/2 week

[balmy condor]

so this would be a 1/2

[woeful meteor]

prediction time are we pulling Sark with 20 people rn

[balmy condor]

uuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh

I would hope so

[vestal wren]

think this week was a full one

[woeful meteor]

actually we do but people had to dig deep in their friend list

[vestal wren]

but i also lost track of it

[balmy condor]

oh right

he could be EU

so if he's EU

it's still a 2/2 week

NA after reset today

is a 1/2 week

[vestal wren]

!affix

[prisma monolith]

Affixes: Tyrannical, Entangling, Bursting

[vestal wren]

don't think its push week tho

[balmy condor]

it's always push week

(I havent done a key in a month )

[vestal wren]

we need oxi with the push week audio file now

[woeful meteor]

https://clips.twitch.tv/HedonisticBelovedRavenPeteZaroll-47M96U7k10lmXzI7

[vestal wren]

10.1.5 will be even less "push" than before

given that you can upgrade vault items to 447 too

(means you can be lazier in how high you push)

[balmy condor]

assassination fotm m+ spec

will be absolute hell

[viscid spear]

https://media.giphy.com/media/Fgfo1l3tWSd7WA1uzE/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[balmy condor]

if it ever happens

[vestal wren]

press ic and go afk (i am joking)

[balmy condor]

Idk I'm getting pretty burnt after 3 expansions of "do we spam crimson tempest?"
"is crimson tempest like black powder? cause sub is just storm->powder, so assa is fok->ct?"

getting

A LITTLE old

[vestal wren]

tbh i found it funny at the start

because even the top m+ pushers did spam ct

before we discussed how it should be played

[balmy condor]

it's funny for like a month or two

and then its uh

not great

[vestal wren]

yes

also its weird

patch cycles in DF are shorter but feel already very slow

[balmy condor]

just a biproduct of gearing so quickly

[vestal wren]

think at least for me its more about content difficulty

[balmy condor]

this patch I did basically a month of keys to gear for raid where as normally I would be doing at least 2 for valor and stuff

[vestal wren]

mythic plus was always relevant early on

but m+ is now even more the "main content"

but tbh, i rly like the improvements in gearing.

[novel arrow]

Thanks for doing the math 😘

[subtle tundra]

10.2 waiting room

hehe

[normal otter]

10.2 is aproximately when? Next spring?

[vestal wren]

assuming the release cycle remains similar

4 months or so

[gusty mirage]

...yes?

10.2 prolly around blizzcon

if I had to guess

with 10.1.5 next week

lines up with the 4 mo schedule

[woeful meteor]

it was 20 but with a 30 min delay looking for someone willing to help out

[clever sapphire]

4 months? so i get 4 months of break from wow, because we are surely getting changes in 10.2 right?

[vestal wren]

very likely, but who knows

in the end can't say before we see changes

[sweet dawn]

10.2 rogue rework hype train

[dull cloak]

not likely, my money is on 11.0

[gusty mirage]

it's almost as if realz was in here and spoke about it last week or something

crazy

[runic hinge]

yes i am

[gusty mirage]

crazy hot maybe

GOT EM

[balmy condor]

crazy? I was crazy once. They locked me in a room. A rubber room. With rats. And rats make me crazy

[runic hinge]

[remote oak]

I guess I have 0 haste now

[minor gate]

https://tenor.com/view/sloth-walking-slow-slow-mo-asi-cuando-gif-9747136

[austere fulcrum]

Sub main ?:P

[split grail]

Question: My sims are telling me to get a bunch of haste gems but I was under the impression that haste was kinda pointless right now. Should I jsut follow the sims or keep stacking crit?

[austere fulcrum]

Follow sim imo

[balmy condor]

haste is a good stat

idk who told you its pointless

[gentle apex]

For experiments 2 target cleave - I’m guessing we follow Normal ST and just keep rupture/garrote on other target?

[celest marlin]

any change in talents for next week m+ afyxes?

[balmy condor]

yes

[balmy condor]

no

[celest marlin]

damn i suck ST damage, next week ill be useless

70-90k on st bosses :S

[balmy condor]

that seems a bit low

make sure you're holding deathmark before you get to the actual boss so you have it available

[celest marlin]

yes with that, i get around 90-100k then i drop

100-250k on trash with good pulls, but low on bosses

[balmy condor]

these numbers just sound like you're undergeared or something idk

[celest marlin]

436 ilvl 4set

no ring

[balmy condor]

[keen radish]

If it wasnt for Sark Cloak id be right there with you. Im sat at a lovely 132 Haste

[balmy condor]

70-90k on bosses and 100-250k on trash with good pulls was numbers we saw last tier

[remote oak]

I should probably sim gems/enchants

and see if I need to swap off crit/mast for crit/haste

[strange python]

When your guild all rerolls so you lose prio on echo trink

Rip

[keen radish]

as sin? you probs shouldnt be getting prio anyway right?

[strange python]

It's our bis.

[balmy condor]

I mean

[strange python]

It's better for us than boomies, similar value for spriests

I mean sure, beacons also a competitive option in that slot

[balmy condor]

calling it our bis is a LIIIIIIIIIIIIITTLE much

[keen radish]

youre the boss

[remote oak]

Beacon/Bomb Dispenser were BiS I thought

[strange python]

But echo trinket isn't particularly big for the other classes either

Beacon/essence are both roughly equal to it. Beacon and echo have big rng

But beacon is more competitive in most rosters.

[balmy condor]

nelths is slightly worse than beacon on equal difficulties, and roughly tied to a vault dice or a chromatic, which is fully passive and not rng

[strange python]

Echo trinket is only good for boomies on AoE, and for spriests it's just okay. DKs in the same boat as us. Good, but has similar value other options.

[balmy condor]

is it good, yes

but calling it bis because it's tied for a close 3rd

is kinda cope

[strange python]

Beacon loses value with weird kill times. Vault dice certainly isn't reliable

[balmy condor]

I never said vault dice was reliable

you're the one calling things bis

[peak bobcat]

Just get luckier

[keen radish]

Just Play Master Assassin for 30% extra crit chance!

[balmy condor]

doesn't even work on trinkets

[keen radish]

the joke could not be transferred over text

[balmy condor]

you never know man

it used to

people still think it does

[keen radish]

nelths is -1600 for me

[strange python]

I'd argue nelths is bis. Albeit very slight, but still would. Higher value with adds than beacon, and I don't consider vault items for BiS.

[keen radish]

yeah i thought about it for like half a second a few weeks ago and realised "if it did, it would be taken, which means it doesnt because theres no way its a secret hidden tech that only i found"

[strange python]

But really the argument is: who else wants the echo trink. It's bad for moonkins, meh for spriests, and dks only want it if the raid isn't stacking essence properly

[gusty mirage]

I miss unwhitelisted MA leggo

[keen radish]

woops, 444 nelths is -1600 from my 437 bomb disp, its -2k from 441 beacon

remove whitelists

[strange python]

457 is a big part of the value.

[gusty mirage]

big wake spears

large if you will

[balmy condor]

aight well if you ignore chromatic completely, and then claim a nebulous "higher value with adds than beacon" and then also pretend vault doesn't exist, then sure, I agree its best in the slot

all it took was for you to eliminate all the other competitive options

but yeah

[remote oak]

Beacon has a huge advantage of being on-demand priority damage

[balmy condor]

that works

[austere fulcrum]

I have 444 class trinket and 441 beacon, top gear for me

[remote oak]

So I wouldn't discount it just because it doesn't always crit

[austere fulcrum]

How come 444 nelths does not sim well wth

[balmy condor]

because you're actually taking the other options into consideration

in which case

it's not actually the best trinket

[austere fulcrum]

It must be your gear needs etc

[balmy condor]

cause like

that's what it is

[tacit otter]

whispyr you sim 130k?

[balmy condor]

nah

[keen radish]

i am bulging out the eyes with crit and vers so maybe

[balmy condor]

idk what I sim atm

I log in, do 3 hours of sark, log out

repeat 3x a week

until sark dead

[tacit otter]

with crit flask?
ah i see understandable

[balmy condor]

so I haven't had a reason to sim

I think when I simmed at the start of sark I was like 127.5 or something

getting close to 128

[keen radish]

thats pretty big for sin right? my sub sim is like 129ish

[tacit otter]

i reached 130 with crit last sunday because of mythic bomb:)

[balmy condor]

it's about as good as it gets without farming the last couple bosses on mythic for the last 4-5 weeks and getting the giga drops

I could hit 130k with a couple drops on reclear

[keen radish]

im only a 2 day a week hardstuck zskarn (its dead this weekend pre-69 pulls) gamer though

[balmy condor]

but we've been extending since week 2 or 3

so I actually haven't gotten any mythic drops in like

2 months

[peak bobcat]

This is so relatable it hurts

[tacit otter]

ye we still reclear and were only on magmo because of guild fusion stuff

[keen radish]

been chilling farming my 16s this week was quite nice

[balmy condor]

yeah we killed zskarn with the cheese before the rework

so we extended that

and have just been extending ever since

[tacit otter]

but mythic beacon simming worse for me so i dont mind not getting sark dead anytime soon

[keen radish]

oh shit thats why

[balmy condor]

yap

I should log in and craft a neck or something idk

[tacit otter]

i have like literally nothing until we get to echo for the trinket

already upgraded/socketed everything so vault is kinda useless now

[balmy condor]

yeah you're talking to the guy that got a 447 dice week 1 and has had heroic raid vaults for the last 8 weeks

[cerulean nest]

got four pieces to turn into 447s on reset next week, and a spark to make a 5th 447. other than that it's just sark cloak, mythic bomb from our upcoming zskarn kill and that's literally it for the rest of prog

[tacit otter]

youre HIM

[keen radish]

we had dogass trinket luck for stuff like essence, so we recleared. but it kinda inted my vault everyweek because there were 0 upgrades for first 4 mythic and i still needed sark cloak and bomb disp on hc

[balmy condor]

wait

I would need to spam keys for aspect crests to use my splinters to craft stuff

aight time to log out again I guess

[keen radish]

anybot got the string to add all the crafted gear stat combos to topgear?

[woeful meteor]

#tc-research

second txt in first pin

[keen radish]

thanks man

[arctic venture]

Guys should we keep or leave onyx ring?

I dont get the point checking the pin

[soft shale]

as assa you dont use it at high gear lvls

also it is getting slammed next week

[autumn frost]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[autumn frost]

!trinkets

[balmy condor]

pins, bloodmallet, simming yourself through droptimizer

[night delta]

I know i've already asked last week, but ... nothing yet on the megadungeon trinkets ? Have we figured out how the sandglass works exactly ?

[neat rain]

Hey anyone know what ring I should grab instead of the forbidden reach one? Heard it's getting a 40% nerf

[night delta]

Path of least resistance is getting a crafted one I guess

[woeful meteor]

anthing with haste, crit or mastery

crafted obviously the easiest route

[strange bronze]

best phial for raid/M+?

[balmy condor]

the crit decayed phial

unless you're scared of the damage

then you would take tepid vers

which is slightly worse

[unreal parcel]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[maiden sierra]

My friend send me this.
Why must he do this to me...

[strange python]

Now do boss damage to cope into thinking rogue is fine.

[keen spruce]

I mean it hasn’t been a secret that we’re bad at dark

Sark

[woeful meteor]

Ye like 2 Specs with 0 haste scaling, that are heavily relient on uptime and one that has no good way to pad on the adds looking bad isn't really suprising

[gusty mirage]

I've been hiding it actually

did I do a bad job?

[keen spruce]

Yes chef

[flat kindle]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[fleet whale]

But we have Shroud and Atrophic so that obviously means were good /s

[gusty mirage]

[keen spruce]

[blazing jewel]

no u

[woeful meteor]

we replaced 430 with 436 today @blazing jewel

[blazing jewel]

[strange python]

I mean we're bad in general

[maiden sierra]

dont worry lads, we are going to get a 5% dps buff next expansion. blizzard didint forget about us!

[balmy condor]

I mean we know they didn't

ain't no reason for you to just roll in and doompost

[maiden sierra]

doompost? im just here having fun 😄

[balmy condor]

sure sure

[strange python]

/shrug our aura buffs could've been bigger and sub and outlaw could use larger than compensation buffs next patch.

The tuning being separate from talent/gameplay changes is pretty disappointing

[balmy condor]

the compensation buffs are 6% in single target what

how much larger should they be

[maiden sierra]

tbf, i would love a rework for sin, kingsbane was a nice change of pace until they killed it...

[balmy condor]

what would you like to see in a rework

[maiden sierra]

big enough to defeat those pesky warlocks

[maiden sierra]

i like the concept of bleeds taking a more imporant role, currently i feel like rupture is a bit meh, garrote is doing great but thats about it right now, i would love if there would be some additions that makes bleeds pop off in some way

but god forbid take extanguinate out of the game

[balmy condor]

yeah rupture as a finisher isn't really impressive I agree

[maiden sierra]

like i dunno, an ability on some cd that makes all bleeds do a bit burst of damage all at once or smth

[balmy condor]

the damage is pretty close to an envenom, which makes it more of an energy battery than an actual big finisher

[strange python]

For outlaw. Sub was closer to 0, no?

And idk, a 6% outlaw buff makes it pretty meh still.

[balmy condor]

compensation aura buff into a 6% overall buff

and it's meh

you're such a silly goose

[strange python]

I mean 6% for outlaw is fine, outlaw just needs more. Sub 0% is 0%

And tbh I'm not high on sin with all the other specs getting buffs in the next week.

[tall atlas]

I think more interaction with the bleeds and poisons

Kind of like ferals infectious wounds

Rupture is a feels bad

[balmy condor]

you realize a compensation buff isn't meant to tune the spec right

that's the "compensation" part

[tall atlas]

Is because of the annulet nerf ye

[balmy condor]

and ghostly

[strange python]

I do. That's why I said my issue is tuning.

I think all three specs are quite weak atm, many other classes have tuning coming in recent weeks or next week, and I wish we would get tuning.

[keen radish]

is there a version of the simcraft general raid sims but for ptr changes? (https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T30_Raid.html)

im sure i found it once before

[strange python]

Sim craft page gets updated very infrequently. I wouldn't put much stock in it.

[regal sable]

bring back veinripper and 1 min vendetta

[abstract jacinth]

Can anyone explain to me why I suck? Thought I was going okay but I'm getting like 25-35% parses - I'm assuming I'm going wrong somewhere in rotation https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KZwrcgDnp9VFa4qj/#fight=last&type=damage-done

[regal sable]

so first step is to name urself after a better sc2 character

[balmy condor]

PTR changes don't get a raid sim

will be updated with 10.1.5 like usual

[humble ginkgo]

veinripper

[keen radish]

Its a longer kill time so its always going to be skewed by that - your anvil damage looks a little low? Ive not personally used anvil but that seems dismally low?

[humble ginkgo]

My beloved

[abstract jacinth]

I feel attacked lol

[abstract jacinth]

yeah possibly, I honestly got anvil early on and it's always simmed best for me so I've just kept it

I don't know how I could be missing though, you know what I mean?

[keen radish]

do you have beacon or nelth trinket? theres no way it should sim higher than either of those im sure

[abstract jacinth]

I haven't seen them drop yet, I'll have to check my droptimizers again to see but beacon simmed at like a .7% increase last time I looked

[strange bronze]

so ive been reading on CD usage for sepsis

and

Is it always advisable to only shiv after applying sepsis?

or to at least save a charge for it at all times?

[blazing jewel]

you want 1 shiv for each sepsis and deathmark

[strange bronze]

and what does the usage of shiv look like when not using sepsis but in M+ tempered blade?

also, am I making sure to apply dots,then sepsis, then deathmark, and THEN shiving?

[spice spire]

Your last sepsis you didn’t even shiv and you keep off syncing your CDs.
Could be some with the fight but sepsis was more of a 2m cd than a 90s one in that log

You do it on open, line it up with second dm, third dm, then send it at 5:42

Less casts = less dam

[abstract jacinth]

I don't remember off the top of my head at this point but I likely was just late, I'll work on the timings thank you

[strange bronze]

@spice spire so im supposed to have sepsis and deathmark lined up and shiv in that window of DM + Sep?

[spice spire]

No

[strange bronze]

could you give an example?

[spice spire]

I’m saying that’s what he did

You send sepsis on cd

And they reline up around 6m

[strange bronze]

deathmark and sepsis at 6m?

line up

?

[spice spire]

If you have a 2m cd and a 1.5m cd

When will they align after the opener

[drifting cloud]

24min

[strange bronze]

;/

[spice spire]

So true bestie

But when is the closest that will align after the opener

[strange bronze]

2 mins 30 secs

i know this

but what im asking

is what is the order of importance for Sepsis+Deathmark+Shiv

Like i would love a good example of why and how to implement that dmg window

because I am confused.

[spice spire]

[keen radish]

oh no no

[spice spire]

Let’s recheck that math friend

[strange bronze]

3:30

srry

[spice spire]

Also shiv and sepsis is pretty self explanatory. You offset a global so your shiv effects the big boom

[keen radish]

closer

[spice spire]

[keen radish]

cough

[spice spire]

You’re not there

[drifting cloud]

real answer is 4:30 cuz mythic cringe kill timers dab

[strange bronze]

nm.

[drifting cloud]

but then u also have pot 5min and passive 4set so its just very cool all around

[strange bronze]

so I garrote/SnD/build, rupture/sepsis/deathmark to multiply bleeds, and then shiv im guessing because sepsis and DM double poison recieves the dmg bonus as sepsis explodes? and then reapply garrote close to sepsis close window

?

[spice spire]

Wait

Are you just asking the opener

Dm line up means nothing, they just happen to line up then

[strange bronze]

im asking in general even past the opener.

[spice spire]

You send sepsis on cd

Offset with a global shiv

[strange bronze]

but i need to hold a shiv for it all the time?

and what do you mean offset?

[spice spire]

Send dm on cd (using vanish after the first one on opener)

[spice spire]

Shiv lasts 9 seconds. After ten seconds of sepsis, it does a large burst of damage.

[gaunt moat]

He means:
[Sepsis] [Garrote(offset)] [Shiv]

[spice spire]

If you sepsis shiv

You will not boost that burst

So you sepsis (usually garrote but literally anything) shiv

[keen radish]

always have a charge of shiv available, dont cap charges but keep one in stock. you sepsis>garrote>shiv. then when sepsis "Repops" on the last gcd you garrote again to get the longest improved garrote

[spice spire]

And you’ll always maximize that sort of it’s damage

[strange bronze]

that was the answer i was looking. im sorry if my question seemed dumb

im new to assasination trying to learn it well

I have sub and outlaw to a tee.

[keen radish]

no such thing as a dumb question

[strange bronze]

do you choose garrote just to max the dot because its convinient?

[keen radish]

have a read through the faq and absorb it all

[gaunt moat]

You garrote, because you want to have an empowered garrote up asap
(empowered garrote: garrote from stealth)

[keen radish]

its all about having the highest utime on improved garrote, and always having improved garrote during deathmark - thats the basis of the spec

[strange bronze]

also holding that vanish just allows for higher dmg on the 2nd use of DM because we have a talent that amps dmg in vanish correct?

[spice spire]

Answered above

[strange bronze]

AH THATS RIGHT you get 2 stealth casts

got it

[keen radish]

with sepsis yes

[strange bronze]

I was trying to find a wa to track that sepsis countdown after expire but cant find one lol

[gaunt moat]

I object to calling it a big boom. it's a wet fart boom

[keen radish]

you hold that vanish until your 2min Deathmark, because if you dont, improved garrote (from sepsis) will run out during it

[keen radish]

yet another thing that you can find in pins and faq

[strange bronze]

how long does improved garrote last vs a normal one?

[keen radish]

the same

[gaunt moat]

@strange bronze
I also highly suggest you check out WAs for assassination if you haven't already
(I use Luxtho's)

I've also made a WA to help with sepsis (linked in pins)

[keen radish]

https://wago.io/Lgy47ma7G

i made this 🙂

[strange bronze]

so the play is Vanish>garrote>DM on second CD of DM right?

[gaunt moat]

[spice spire]

[thorn fjord]

[keen radish]

no, the second dm you will have improved garrote (from sepsis) until about half way through. so you extend it with vanish+garrote - really gotta just look at the faq brother, everything were saying is written out there

rogue discord is s tier for info. you could drop in here, read and parse 99s without any human interaction. Rogue gamers put in serious work

[runic hinge]

[thorn fjord]

[runic hinge]

[lean kite]

yall using vers phial or corrupting rage

[drifting cloud]

@balmy condor it just reduces the raid dmg a fuckton

you can always send your officers our log

because healing 5+ stacks there till 7:30 gonna be very hard even after overnerf

[balmy condor]

Yeah

I know the healers are looking at it post raid

They were grumbling bout stacks all night

[drifting cloud]

[true basalt]

is it okay to get over crit diminishing returns?

[drifting cloud]

yes

[blazing jewel]

if you dont have perfect secondary stat optimization why live

@balmy condor

[balmy condor]

True

I have 400 less vers than that nocniqt guy

And he’s only 4 ilvl higher than me as well

Might as well just quit now

[blazing jewel]

[spice spire]

You’d be 4 ilvl higher if you maxed vaults. Sending this to DOMs immediately

[balmy condor]

Real

[blazing jewel]

its going in your trial thread

[balmy condor]

If I had done my m+ every week I would’ve had mythic sark cloak mythic beacon and double 450 daggers

[spice spire]

Real

[misty holly]

Aww crap, I got a 0 parse on assault mythic... and I didn't even die.

Didn't even know what was possible without dying. Like wow

[keen spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/yeah-but-how-stan-marsh-gary-harrison-south-park-s7e12-gif-22233891

[sharp viper]

did you get an important call?

and had to afk for a few minutes

[balmy condor]

There are two lebron James’s inside you

One’s balling

The others bawling

You are the latter

Let it go

Come back to the other lebron

Be happy

:)

[limpid lava]

What is the addon name that shows enchant and socket

[vapid sierra]

I know elvui does

But that’s a whole ass overhaul

[balmy condor]

deja might do it

[solemn current]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[visual hemlock]

it is day 156 and fragment is still oversiming

[royal lantern]

is that really an issue...?

i mean, people that care about performance know it anyway

[celest marlin]

so after adding embelishment on boots/wrist i cant add more on weapon for example a 3th one right?

[hallow sage]

inspirational whisp

[balmy condor]

correct

[vocal oracle]

only a flavor pocket

[austere fulcrum]

do u guys think is it worth to craft neck this week ? or off hand weapon

asking before simming just to see whay u did 😄

[gaunt moat]

i took socket

[ornate dawn]

big ring craft to delete annulet lets go

[austere fulcrum]

i dropped annulet like 2nd week

[delicate hemlock]

hi friends, decided not to pad nelth prog so thinking about assa, do our CDs fit in between mechanics or can we get screwed during DM on that fight?

i guess sepsis is always workable, and you can be safe with DM by just sending it after bombs go out>?

[balmy condor]

not really an issue for dm as far as I remember

[delicate hemlock]

brill ta

[compact carbon]

2min CDs fit perfectly on every fight this tier

[royal lantern]

are you guys throwing a DM on the 2nd add in p2, or keep it for p3 start

[balmy condor]

on nelth?

[royal lantern]

ye

rn throwing DM on the 2nd faceless add during p2

idk if thats good or trolling

[peak bobcat]

I did

It seems good

[balmy condor]

yap

that's the play

vanish dm on add 2

should be opener, vanish, hold sepsis until after the big aoe in p1, then sepsis covers the 2nd dm in p1

p2 happens you get sepsis for add 1

vanish dm for add 2

sepsis for add 3

and then it's crank time p3

[royal lantern]

i aint gonna do all of that

boss was at 2% allready

[balmy condor]

cry about it

[royal lantern]

but yeha, gotcha

ita just a "have big garrote for all adds" that way

but really dont wanna mix up to much now when we where so close to a kill tbh

[balmy condor]

ye

[dire ivy]

ye on my prog the second add just dies insta but you wont loose a cast of dm and we get to the P2 Boss DR anyway so might aswell press it and then have it for lust

i just got the bomb dispenser we probably use beacon after snd on opener and bomb anytime after if we play those trinkets right?

[balmy condor]

Beacon after rupture before dm

[dire ivy]

ok thanks

[dusk cairn]

hi,whats the best weapon enhancement for assassin

[royal lantern]

sim

but will either be double sophic, or sophic+haste enchant

[dusk cairn]

so 2xshadowflame is no

well thx ^^

[uneven summit]

my sims keep demanding more haste even though im allready 15%, shouldn´t crit in theory outsim it?

[royal lantern]

you probably sit around 35-40% crit by default mate lol

[slow tulip]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[atomic rune]

Hello has this Discord had any discussion on the opinion of this website: https://www.metasrc.com/wow/class/rogue/assassination?keys=18+

[wary ice]

is that website like sub creation but less honest about being usage statistics?

[woeful meteor]

Whatever it is I saw like 5 mistakes while scrolling down 1 time so dont use it

[royal lantern]

beside the fact that quiet a few things are wrong/bad

idk why somone would use that site and not 1 of the established ones

[atomic rune]

I just saw that they had a WoW section when I was looking at some TFT stuff

[royal lantern]

assa m+ build without iron wire lol

thats the 1thing on assa that actually has good value in m+ lmao

[atomic rune]

Yeah thats what made me question the site LOL

I have it set to 18+ keys but I cant imagine not taking iron wire still

[gaunt moat]

Just got chromatic essence
With all buffs it's +750 dps
but.. no one wants to take vers buff
so it drops to 320

[atomic rune]

Plus if you use the default at 14+ keystones 4 of the 5 trinkets are PVP trinkets including the HP and cleanse one

[royal lantern]

cant you sim how it would be with you taking the vers buff

[gaunt moat]

it's also 320

but i refuse to take it on principal

cause they don't want to test how much they gain from it

[atomic rune]

Wait are we not taking Exsanguinate in dungeons anymore?

[spice surge]

Dont take it anywhere

Except the dumpster

[atomic rune]

Oh praise the lord and baby jesus

[royal lantern]

juicy weekly vault

[austere fulcrum]

Top gear or stat values ?

[atomic rune]

Oh my god that no Exsanguinate just made me whole day holy shit

[spice surge]

Why were you playing with it to begin if you hated it

[royal lantern]

exsang moment

and what eleem said

[atomic rune]

I think I saw some site or guide had it and just ran with it

[royal lantern]

exsang and no exsang was so close, you could allready ignore it if you really didnt wanna play it

[atomic rune]

Never bothered to look for more

[spice surge]

Ye it was like 0.3% better

Before we realized its bugged as shit and should never be used

[atomic rune]

I saw the build practiced the opener and got it down and just ran with it

Man I got KSM running it the whole time LMAO

What is the opener in dungeon bosses now without exsang?

idk commands if you have any

[spice spire]

FaQ

[minor gate]

cringe

[atomic rune]

am i stupid the openers in the faq assume exsang?

[royal lantern]

says "if talented"

[atomic rune]

oh so yes i am stupid

[gusty mirage]

their M+ dps guide doesn't have them taking iron wire

what on earth

[atomic rune]

Yeah sites wack

[gusty mirage]

nice pvp trinkets for "best trinkets" list

who in here is using pvp trinkets for m+

we need to have a conversation

[atomic rune]

My guess is Assa is top tier in PVP so PVP'ers are doing weekly/KSM and its just taking their data more then the PVE'rs

[gusty mirage]

at least they got a cool logo

they got that going for them

[atomic rune]

THATS where I got the Exsang from. The wowhead guide is still having Exsang in it so I just imported from it

Wtf sites are you guys using all my usual sites are outdated and that new one is S tier trash

[pure moth]

Wowhead, icy veins, this discord. All things associated with warcraft

[atomic rune]

WoWhead just proved to be outdated though so idk

and I have also never liked Icyveins

[gusty mirage]

wowhead should be updated though

p sure whispyr already updated it

oh

hasn't updated the m+ talents yet

[gusty mirage]

I mean elemental chaos is fine

but yeah that's for sure outdated

but for staying on top of changes, etc. Best source of info is in here, pins get updated regularly so that's the best spot for the latest

[atomic rune]

Yeah Ill have to use here more often thats on em

Me

[gusty mirage]

nah, we have an issue with wow right now where there's just so many avenues of information

and a lot of them are a pain in the ass to keep completely updated

[atomic rune]

From looking at here and U.gg it seems to be a pretty decent site

[minor gate]

when do you get diminishing returns on crit

[atomic rune]

40% right?

[minor gate]

think of going on a diet

[atomic rune]

Google search says 30%

[gusty mirage]

keep in mind rogues get a passive 5% baseline crit as well

[minor gate]

oh yeah

do %buff contribute to returns?

[gusty mirage]

the penalty only starts applying in regard to secondary stats

so you're actually not in the DRs yet

[minor gate]

ah

[gusty mirage]

applies to the rating %

it's roughly 5100-5400 rating depending on the stat iirc

[atomic rune]

Oh Im so giddy I feel so good removing this

[gusty mirage]

[minor gate]

are all the stat percentages the same across all the secondaries

[gusty mirage]

the % DRs are the same across all the stats, but rating to % varies from stat to stat

I believe haste DRs faster than other stats

also mastery is another animal altogether

because it DRs based on "mastery points" and that varies from spec to spec

[minor gate]

i need more haste

[atomic rune]

Dont you already have too much lol

[gusty mirage]

your stats seem fine, 17% is plenty

[atomic rune]

Im close to maxing out

[gusty mirage]

just trust top gear, it won't steer you wrong

[idle inlet]

When did they confirm the rogue changes are delayed

[atomic rune]

When they lied to us on 10.1.5 announcement day

[minor gate]

there were rogue changes?

https://tenor.com/view/what-surprised-gif-25739412

[atomic rune]

may 12th is when they were delayed

[burnt latch]

Nah trust boys theyre just cooking something real nice

Still got a week to go

Changes coming

[idle inlet]

Thank you lol

[atomic rune]

I lost trust when they said in Shadowlands we could pickpocket ingredients for Crimson VIal

[gusty mirage]

tbf they forgot about rogue all of alpha and beta

and pulled sephuz off of overwatch to rush to get rogue somewhat playable for SL

lol

venthyr ability didn't work all of alpha and beta

[minor gate]

famous last words

[gusty mirage]

they are, but in 10.2 is the plan

[atomic rune]

Were just too good at stealth guys right thats a funny joke right guys

[minor gate]

in realz we trust

[gusty mirage]

unfortunate real life issues came up, just hope he's doing okay after

[atomic rune]

Just make Assa a support class fuck it get rid of the DPS alltogether

[idle inlet]

Same

[burnt latch]

Inshallah

[minor gate]

"please some one tag Realz blizzard, Realz blizzard save me Realz Blizzard"

dont actually tag him

the guy works too hard

MAGA

Make Assassination Great Again

[burnt latch]

I hope they figure out some cool way to make stats more interesting (and by doing that, more valuable) when they do decide to look at rogue. And they could do the same for ww while theyre at it. My only wish

[atomic rune]

I only meme my complaints about the balance. Theres no chance in hell I would hurt some actual dev just trying to do his job

[gusty mirage]

imo keep the tier set bug in

lmao

that's way more interesting than any stat interaction

[burnt latch]

Tier sets bugged?

[gusty mirage]

you didn't hear?

[atomic rune]

I will still play the spec no matter the state of it because I am whipped

[burnt latch]

Nah mate im a casual whats wrong with it

[gusty mirage]

it stacks indefinitely with more WWs

LOL

[minor gate]

https://tenor.com/view/spy-spying-listening-in-marlon-wayne-marlon-wayans-gif-11291180

[burnt latch]

Ohhh i thought u meant rogue tier

[gusty mirage]

no no the ww tier

[burnt latch]

Yeah I actually knew about this before the patch came out and tried to convince my guild to get world first

[gusty mirage]

seems fine

[burnt latch]

They werent having it

[gusty mirage]

casual 85.4 million dps

[minor gate]

i remember when there were rumors about vers being replaced and then everyone got mad at the rogue talents reveal because of out vers talent in the middle of the tree

[burnt latch]

Its been a thing for like 3 months and I know for a fact its been reported to the devs too, so its strange they still didnt fix it given how gamebreaking the bug actually is if abused

Even if u stack like 3 windwalkers its big value

[gusty mirage]

yeah it was reported all of PTR too

lol

[spice surge]

Considering it took people this long to gather a group full of windwalkers to actually use it

[gusty mirage]

it's hard to gather that many WWs

they're less played than rogue

[spice surge]

Windwalkers are some rare specimen

[burnt latch]

I think people were more afraid of what would happen IF u abused it, im sure all top guilds have known about this since the start

Thats why it hasnt seen play before

But we’re in silly season now, so nothing matters anymore

[gusty mirage]

it's always silly season

[burnt latch]

Especially if a silly goose like yourself is around

[gusty mirage]

[weak plover]

I would play this

[atomic rune]

It would be so fun

Rupture applies a buff that your allies take. Your cast is tossing vials of buffs to allies

[gaunt moat]

at this point it already is

[gusty mirage]

apply your atrophic and like it

[atomic rune]

I wish they would lean into it more and just make us a support class im ngl

itd be fun to be poison based through debuffs and buffs

[supple snow]

or

or

just make a 4th support spec that uses Vials and Poisons like you guys said and actually fix assa

[atomic rune]

LISTEN I agree

But there seems to be only one cure for Assa nowadays

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-infinity-gauntlet-snap-finger-snap-gif-12502580

[supple snow]

=))

[atomic rune]

Its also easy to say for me because I love assa and I want to play a support spec

Im jealous of Evokers I just hate ranged with a passion

[white orchid]

Was there any compensation buffs for the annulate being nerfed?

[woeful meteor]

no cause none were needed

[atomic rune]

xdd

[gaunt moat]

Not for assassination

[woeful meteor]

idk get better gear and annulet is already worse so why buff spec if an item you dont use gets nerfed

[loud gull]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[gusty mirage]

because I want more damage

I want compensation for the ring I haven't used for 2 weeks

ty blizzard

[atomic rune]

I dont even want more damage really I just want to feel good to play

[woeful meteor]

so true

[gusty mirage]

new sepsis build feels good

just the damage mid af

[atomic rune]

Sorry in AoE

[gusty mirage]

oh

yeah uh

I got nothing for that

[woeful meteor]

then what would be good in aoe

[gusty mirage]

make our dots actually do damage

ig

[woeful meteor]

and if you say shadowpriest your are delusional

[gusty mirage]

would rupture doing more damage make multidotting feel better? genuine question

because I can't seem to find a concrete answer for my own opinion

[atomic rune]

its tiring to hear but make Vial be our Envenom in AoE and make IC more fun to use and not require us to stealht before hand

[gaunt moat]

Make rupture an AoE bleed like Primal Wrath

[gusty mirage]

even when sin aoe "felt okay" in bfa rupture didn't really do damage

[atomic rune]

Yeah it was all that crit FoK

[gusty mirage]

I reckon the gameplay loop itself is fine, but the damage just isn't there

[atomic rune]

Like even that Id be okay with

I hate playing around IC honestly

It feels so fucking clunky and you cant chain pull because of the stealth requirement\

[gusty mirage]

I mean you'd just vanish garrote in that case

[woeful meteor]

Nah I dont see a way to make a Multi Dot Spec work in AOE while being somewhat balanced overall, but Shadowcrash -> Psychic Link or Seed Spam are omega shit

[gusty mirage]

or hang back drop combat and then stealth and open

but chaining is really really good for assassination

[atomic rune]

But sometimes wow just says no youre in combat so that isnt reliable

[simple gyro]

IIRC, the damage difference from not stealthing ever wasn't all that much? I recall whispyr doing a sim of that and it being only a few percent behind

[gusty mirage]

yeah it's not an enormous loss

you just send it and if it lines up with you stealthing it lines up

if it doesn't it doesn't

[atomic rune]

THat feels so bad

lmao

[gusty mirage]

why though

[atomic rune]

You dont get access to a core part of Rogues??

[gusty mirage]

I mean that's just mythic plus now

[atomic rune]

Every other spec gets shadow dance

why cant we

[gusty mirage]

you can

you just sacrifice damage for it

[atomic rune]

yeah man

I mean in single we get sepsis which gives us acesss to IG

But in M+

its just sacrifice after sacrifice

[gusty mirage]

I think you're overvaluing imp garrote in aoe

vs just getting bleeds out and rolling

[simple gyro]

the silence is worth more than the damage imo, but if the tank doesn't want it that is their call

[atomic rune]

Im not looking from a stats point because its close

Im just saying were the only spec that loses access to a main part of rogue fantasy

[gusty mirage]

assassination feels bad in keys because we don't have on demand damage

[atomic rune]

and then we dont even get 2 vanishes on top of that

[gusty mirage]

envenom legit hits like a wet noodle outside of deathmark

and our bleeds even improved garrote, take too long to do damage

[atomic rune]

But the damage on demand could be prevelant if we had acceess to stealth and IG with IC?

[gusty mirage]

how

it's still a dot

[simple gyro]

random idea maybe, make CT trigger sinister calling on rupture. advance them one tick

[gusty mirage]

it takes time to do damage

[cunning nest]

Because I skilled iron wire and already sacrifice damage for it 😂

[gusty mirage]

did you though?

[atomic rune]

it also doesnt help that Exsa being a damage ability is bugged lmao

[gusty mirage]

what did you sacrifice to get iron wire

flying daggers?

[atomic rune]

AND THEN we take MA and still dont have access to stealth in chain pulls xdd

[cunning nest]

Cant remember the Name for Sure, but I think yes. Its 2 points tough

Travelling rn, I watch it up at home

[gusty mirage]

I mean those 2 points would go into vicious venoms

or flying daggers

or fatal concoction

vicious venoms does nothing in aoe

one is a 15% amp to fok damage which I mean fok fucking sucks

[atomic rune]

I think the point were trying to make here

[gusty mirage]

and the other is 10% to poisons

[atomic rune]

Is you are focusing so much on current iteration to amke it good

were saying current iteration feels bad

[cunning nest]

Exactly. Oxi is right, it's not THAT bad to miss empowered garrote damagewise. But I still feel you, we take several Talents for stealth and sometimes we can use it rarely.

[atomic rune]

Like I see your stats and I understand oxi I agree, Im just saying that feels not good

Like chain pulling on sub while having access to shadow dance feels fine

[gusty mirage]

I agree it does suck to negate a good chunk of our kit, part of that is more-so the way m+ is played rather than the spec itself right? although the way our spec plays in m+ is pretty ass too

[atomic rune]

Btu we dont get that

[gusty mirage]

truthfully if rupture and poisons actually did significant damage

I think it'd feel less shitty to lose out on getting any benefit from our stealth talents

but I also don't think that's the solution, assassination in aoe is just a mess imo

[atomic rune]

I honeslty dont care about the damage I already do top damage in my class of keys. I just want to feel fun to play

[gusty mirage]

we're a multidotting spec where our dots outside of garrote and ig CT don't really do significant damage

[cunning nest]

I hope they remove that tbh. Nothing with "out of stealth" for sin pls

[gusty mirage]

the shittiest part is

is when we had the kingsbane build

we had on demand damage

every minute

[cunning nest]

Yeah dude

[gusty mirage]

KB + IC felt GOOD in keys

[cunning nest]

Loved it

[gusty mirage]

cause you had vanish + IC for big aoe packs

and kingsbane CRANKED prio damage

lined up well every other KB was inside deathmark

[atomic rune]

Oh god

I hate vanish being used offensively exclusively

[gusty mirage]

I do too

[atomic rune]

MAN

[gusty mirage]

but sadly that's been assassination forever

[cunning nest]

#me2

[gusty mirage]

I've been stockholmed into just accepting it

lol

[atomic rune]

Its like theres a talent we could use to get access to stealth

and were forced into TT xdd

[gusty mirage]

fwiw I think dance in the class tree was a mistake

[atomic rune]

I think theres going to be major rework to class and spec trees

whenever it happens

10.2

[cunning nest]

Yeah, pls dont let US have to use dance

[atomic rune]

11.0

[gusty mirage]

esp when it's gated behind find weakness

which benefits only outlaw

[woeful meteor]

wdym dance in class tree is huge 1/3 specs uses it and its not even sub

[atomic rune]

LMAO

[gusty mirage]

but think about sub getting that extra 2-5% uptime on find weakness

[vestal wren]

10.2 could change that

[atomic rune]

11.0 you mean

[vestal wren]

just a random assumption, if they remove the crit nodes from the general tree

[woeful meteor]

dw 1 more tier or gear and sub hits 100% from critting

[spice surge]

No, he means 10.2

[gusty mirage]

TRUE

FW even more useless

[vestal wren]

it would directly lead to lower fw uptime and higher value of crit as a stat on non fw talent combinations

[gusty mirage]

make FW apply to rupture and garrote

[atomic rune]

I think realistically the best changes for Assa to make it feel less clunky would be give us SD so it lines up wiht IC in packs, and then give us an AoE envenom so we can stop spamming our AoE dot for the onhit damage

[gusty mirage]

I hope they take crimson tempest and throw it in the trash

[vestal wren]

you mean you want to make bleeds not paypass armor by default, interessting idea

[gusty mirage]

make multi dotting good again

[gusty mirage]

no no make FW amplify bleed damage

[strange python]

I really don't think that much needs to change to fix the trees tbh. I'd like to see the class tree push some of the damage nodes as baseline (like deeper strat), and add more utility. Sin could just use some talent tuning and probably removal of covenant abilities.

[vestal wren]

i mean it would in that case

[gusty mirage]

we need to gut a lot of the dps talents in the class tree

[atomic rune]

yeah make DS baseline so Sub gets 8 combo points

[gusty mirage]

having to choose between dps and utility is just bad

[strange python]

Sins biggest issue is just tuning. Haste tuning, bleed tuning, envenom tuning, etc.

[vestal wren]

it is

the question is how to change that

[gusty mirage]

I don't envy realz

[strange python]

Kill exsang+sepsis and tune the knobs and I think sin is fine.

[gusty mirage]

at all tbh

[strange python]

Sub is a mess though

[vestal wren]

because right now all 3 specs have diffrent talents they want to get from the general tree

[atomic rune]

I think at this iteration to only way they are good is when their numbers are just omega crazy

[gusty mirage]

sub has the most build diversity of all 3 specs

[atomic rune]

And thats not good

[gusty mirage]

how is it a mess

lol

[vestal wren]

and assassination is probably the elast picky

[strange python]

Build diversity doesn't mean it has satisfying builds or gameplay

[gusty mirage]

idk brew + flag are very satisfying builds and gameplay

[vestal wren]

general tree is the same for all 3 specs every time, so if we limit it to general tree

[gusty mirage]

they alter your rotation enough to make meaningful decisions

[atomic rune]

I had Danse Macabre

[strange python]

Sub rogues want high shadow dance importance and it seems pretty clear blizzard wants the flatter damage profile. That's a speeding car meeting a brick wall.

[atomic rune]

hate*

[vestal wren]

build diversity is not there for specs, but all 3 specs go down diffrent paths in the general tree

what is kinda nice

[gusty mirage]

that's an easy fix, you make gloomblade stop hitting like a truck

bam

in dance damage matters more

[strange python]

I mean that doesn't help the flat damage profile that blizzard seems to want

[gusty mirage]

but the theory behind lingering is a good one, it builds on dance

[strange python]

For everyone but arcane

[gusty mirage]

I mean sub does not have a flat damage profile

[strange python]

It's a lot flatter than people like

[vestal wren]

burst of any of the 3 rogue specs is not that high

damage profiles however are too similar

neither of the specs has unique niches

[strange python]

Idk. Replacing lingering with something to amp dance damage, deleting exsang and sepsis, and tuning things. I'd be happy with that.

I don't like any of the class tree capstones but idk if that's gonna change.

[vestal wren]

i think lingering is something we just disagree in design

[strange python]

You and me? Or rogues and realz?

Lingerings pretty unpopular as far as I've seen

[vestal wren]

the dev team and we as a community

[strange python]

Ah, yeah.

[gusty mirage]

the logic behind it is good though, it extends the importance of dance, right?

[strange python]

Nah.

[gusty mirage]

it's one of those things where the idea is good but in practice it just feels bad

[vestal wren]

basically my fear was that it pushes gloomblade damage too much and creates a damage profile where dance does nto stad out enough

[atomic rune]

What if they reworked CT into something like: "Spin around you shoving a concentrated vial of Poison into the open wound of up to 8 enemies around you dealing x nature damage per combo point spent."

Could even make it so it appplies to both Rupture and Garrote.

[vestal wren]

the design intend is to extend impact of dance, so that your damage impact of dance is longer

[gusty mirage]

yeah

[strange python]

I'd love it if they really amped up Danse Macabre and made the stacks multiplicative or something similar, where you're rewarded for delaying sectech to the last second and the burst is quite high.

[gusty mirage]

the logic behind it is sound, it just feels bad with how much damage gloom does because of it

[vestal wren]

it just feels not that great

[strange python]

It also requires dance having less damage.

[gusty mirage]

it kind of makes your actual dance window feel less important

[strange python]

Can't have super high impact dances and strong out of dance windows

[vestal wren]

because you need to have higher uptimes to make it good

[strange python]

That too

Losing 50 stacks of lingering while Echo charges his fire bomb is so cringe

[gusty mirage]

reminds me of the outlaw rogues complaining that they have no burst damage but they also want to push a button every single global

[strange python]

I mean. Outlaw hasn't really been a burst spec so that's cringe of them

[vestal wren]

we had a short discussion in one of the channels after the statement

• shadow dance uptime is low (~25%), which means we spend a lot of time outside of dance
• the high cp cap and low cp income can lead to 3 or even 4 builders before a finisher outside of dance, this leads to a feeling of lower pacing and is more energy restricted
• shadow strike cast get further lowered by tfd/dm, which leads to a situation in which reducing gloomblade cast is undesirable.

bonus: with a shadow dance frequency of 25 seconds, extending the impact of it does lead to a more distributed damage profile and higher uptime requirements and can be a negative thing in multiple situations.

^ is a short summery of my thoughts

[strange python]

But sub has historically been burstier and it feels bad to have it spend the last 6 years becoming flatter

[gusty mirage]

I think TFD is an awful talent

fwiw

pushing something other than shadowstrike in dance feels awful

[vestal wren]

i am fine with tfd

[earnest remnant]

Agreed

[gusty mirage]

only thing that feels okay is sectech

[strange python]

I like pushing things that aren't TFD if Danse Macabre is much more impactful.

[gusty mirage]

and that's because its big damage

[vestal wren]

it works well with danse macabre

[strange python]

That aren't ss*

[vestal wren]

and thats the DF play style created

so in a sense, it does have synergy

[earnest remnant]

I like flag and sectech and thats about it

[vestal wren]

tfd without DM feels meh

[gusty mirage]

TFD is just awkward for me

[strange python]

The problem is that DM doesn't feel notable. I mean sure it does big damage, but when the gameplay around DM is just "always sectech second" you kind of ignore DM functionally.

[gusty mirage]

half the time I forget I'm talented into it

and I shadowstrike anyway

and overcap like 49782374892347892349823 cp because of it

just out of habit lol

[vestal wren]

the rotaiton is not intutitve

but thats normal for sub ^^

[gusty mirage]

I reckon a lot of our concerns are heard

and I trust in something meaningful coming in 10.2

[vestal wren]

ye possible

i have no inside knowlage, so can't rly say much

[atomic rune]

Sub is cringe anyway. Stay pisslow.

[gusty mirage]

I have a feeling assassination is what's holding back the changes tbh lmao

at least assa in aoe

[vestal wren]

also i think 10.2 will focus on assassinaiton more

[gusty mirage]

because how do you even fix it

[vestal wren]

given that assassination is atm in the weakest state of the 3

[gusty mirage]

you'd have to overhaul the entire playstyle in aoe

from scratch essentially

because the base is just awful for the way M+ plays

[grim tangle]

give black powder to all specs

[atomic rune]

NO

[gusty mirage]

echoing blades was a good bandaid in bfa

[vestal wren]

i don't think you need to

you can just buff rupture

[gusty mirage]

they won't do it

[vestal wren]

and it would already make the spec competitive

[gusty mirage]

blizzard inherently HATES multi dotting being strong

that's why they rework shadow priest 800 times an expac

[atomic rune]

Legit just give us an AoE finisher that scales off our bleeds

[vestal wren]

IC solves it

[atomic rune]

and its gg

[gusty mirage]

they nerf spriest toward the end of an expac

[vestal wren]

IC has a low enough cooldown that multi dotting is infrequent enough

[gusty mirage]

spriest goes into next expac being meh

they get a rework

get giga strong

then they rework them a 2nd time

get them in a solid spot

then nerf them as gear levels rise lmao

and rinse and repeat

it's happened the last 3 expacs

[atomic rune]

Because Spriest will always scale wiht higher secondaries and they never account for that

[vestal wren]

thats a diffrent problem

[atomic rune]

Same with Assa

[gusty mirage]

I just feel like blizzard's balance team inherently dislikes multidotting

[vestal wren]

basically, the reason why wl or other casters always pop up high is how they scale with stats

[atomic rune]

Assa is always strong with tons of haste in teh last patch

[vestal wren]

the gameplay design just gives them more benefits from stats

[gusty mirage]

assassination was trash in 9.2.5

wdym

[vestal wren]

so you can just throw something like BL or similar effects on them and they explode

[atomic rune]

? the last tier was good idk what you are on about

[gusty mirage]

assassination isn't even top boss damage with 2/3 zoldyck and 50% haste on mythic sark

[vestal wren]

assasination is the only spec that benefits from haste

[gusty mirage]

maybe we played a different game

[vestal wren]

from rogue

[gusty mirage]

because if you're talking about m+, assassination didn't even take haste from the seasonal

we took crit

lol

[atomic rune]

I guess I wasnt really paying attention tot he community then but it felt fine to me

[vestal wren]

and assassination does not benefit from haste to the same levels most others do

[gusty mirage]

you're already energy saturated in aoe because of all the bleeds

the only reason people think assassination does well with haste was 8.3

and it was because shrouded suffocation was so strong, and we had obscene levels of haste

[atomic rune]

IM TELLING YOU rework CT to be "Spin around you shoving a concentrated vial of Poison into the open wound of up to 8 enemies around you dealing x nature damage per combo point spent." AND THEN make FoK not sometimes generate 1 combo point for whatever fucking reason adn you will not be energy capped

[gusty mirage]

stack expedients, slam down boon, exsang your shrouded suffocation garrotes to snapshot that haste

[atomic rune]

The fact that FoK can sometimes return 1 combo point in 5+ targets is fucking crazy

[vestal wren]

haste being good was also a consequence of exsang

just saying (hides)

[gaunt moat]

just get more crit kappa

[atomic rune]

You should be able to be at 0 crit and still get more then 1 combo point using an AoE filler lmao

No other class works like that

[simple gyro]

could go back to wod and let CT have the ignite mechanic (i don't actually like this idea)

[gusty mirage]

you're not wrong

it was shrouded suff + exsang

had nothing to do with the actual haste

[atomic rune]

I think changin CT to something like I said would make it feel fine becasue when you dont go into stealth with IC you still benefit from the fact they are spread anyway

[spice surge]

Make shrouded good again

[gusty mirage]

exsang made the haste good

[spice surge]

Not the +50% it currently gives, make it more like 150% like in bfa

[gusty mirage]

and galecaller's boon gave us a fuck ton of haste

[vestal wren]

for those who are not familiar with exsang, it snapshots the haste value you have when using it

[gusty mirage]

which stonked tf out of the expedients you stacked

[vestal wren]

^ boon that oxi mentioned is exactly a trinekt that gives you a lot of haste

[gusty mirage]

if we could remove snapshotting in 10.2

I'll be happy

[spice surge]

Time to get the trinket that gives you 14k haste when you proc its cheat death and then rip a fat exsang

[gusty mirage]

but ig 10.0.5 already did that to exsang

[atomic rune]

NO

I want snapshotting to stay

Its the only high skill thing we have left

[vestal wren]

i don't think exsang will survive 10.2

[gusty mirage]

snapshotting is a terrible mechanic, that's explained absolutely nowhere in the game, and is outright confusing to 90% of the community

[spice surge]

High skill?

[atomic rune]

well "high skill"

[spice surge]

Theres nothing you can do to influence it

How is it high skill

[vestal wren]

you got other snapshotting mechanics, exsang one is not intuitive

[atomic rune]

skill expressive and people who do it are better then people who dont

I dont want to become a Pali class wehjre you just press bnuttons in order

[gusty mirage]

I mean I hate to be the bearer of bad news

but that's been assassination for like

a decade

[simple gyro]

something like IG or bloodtalons is ok snapshot, not exsang

[strange python]

I like snapshotting.

But I agree it needs to be better explained in game