assassination

[gaunt moat]

You can see a write up about it in #1065730164077645916

But yes

[half tapir]

Thank you 😊

[winter gale]

On tyrannical weeks I could go with Torch over Boon until I get s2 trinkets?

[pseudo hamlet]

Can you spam the bomber trinket on the same target and put a few bombs or it's max like 1 bomb at a time?

[royal lantern]

boon

you pull bigger on tyran weeks

[deft flicker]

Trinket has ICD, so you can’t have multiple bombs out at once

[pseudo hamlet]

Good to know! thanks!

[rancid raft]

is it worth dumping CP with Envenom instead of CT with stacked 6+ targets and 4set bonus active, praying the PB will proc?

[winter gale]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[winter gale]

We have a new weapon enchant?

[rancid raft]

check the faq, its explained there

[rapid prawn]

why is it that almost no one is playing assa compared to sub on for example rashok?

[midnight sequoia]

im fairly new but i play assa

[vestal wren]

it is a consequence of how the tier played out

basically all 3 specs are about equal on output

!sheet

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[vestal wren]

^ you can compare the 3, and see they are very close in good gear, to the point it is irrelevant what you play

however the raid is not pure single target and subtlety does get less benefit from the tier set but has a higher baseline

this did lead to wfr playing subtlety over the other specs

statistics further emphasize this idea, and e.g. mythic statistics have atm the big flaw of only showcasing a subset of all fights

assassination is basically not played because it is less flexible on some fights, but both assassination/outlaw also just need more time for people to gether gear

[subtle tundra]

Need a data analyst to tell us

[rapid prawn]

yea to me it makes sense to play assa on rashok and magmorax but doesnt seem like other rogues are doing that and just staying sub

my assa gear sims better than sub so was looking to swap for those bosses but maybe might aswell stay sub

[vestal wren]

statistics atm don't include the lat 2 fights on mythic

from a quick look, so w/e spec performs better on those will show up better on wcl

assassinaiton does get more benefits from haste, so maybe thats something that works out well on the last boss

subtlety still can pad on adds, and sadly logs don't heavily seperate on padding vs. not

so fights like assult will always give sub/outlaw a higher standing

when the fight isn't that relevant overall and is easy enough to play what you like

[subtle tundra]

Assa should in theory be better for last boss

Yet there's no public logs for it

💀

[vestal wren]

also worth mentioning is player pool

assassination/outlaw has less logs so also a higher chance to show up slightly weaker due to that

btw. i am not trying to say assassination is insane, it clearly would benefit from a slight butt to its single target if thats the niche its meant to fit

[rapid prawn]

fair

[ruby rover]

Sim question, comparing DTB/IC to (what I thought was) a much more single-target focused DTB/Sepsis build. Sepsis is 21% ahead ST, no surprise, but it is also 0.2% ahead dSlice with no IC and no CT? Is this legit or have I jacked something up?

PW
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ei6j5c2rdy7nFQ4m1c1eUm

dSlice
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/j1NoaqM2TK9Z9A8QEKuJxW

'current' in each is DTB/IC

[clever sapphire]

my uneducated guess would be that since assa aoe is not really that strong, your pure single target with some poison bomb procs sims higher in the dungeon slice setup

but when comparing it to how its gonna go in dungeons you will fare much better with IC dtb because you will do dmg in pulls even without 20 bomb procs

[ruby rover]

hmm, I imagine that's true if dslice is assuming all mobs are always in a tight pile

[grim jay]

You dont magically get more pb procs in the sims

Its an average basically

[fallen raven]

the value of a pb proc will go up in dslice sims compared to reality is what they mean, since you likely won't have all mobs covered

[clever sapphire]

yo people are padding so hard on sarkareth adds wat

im 9th place with top boss dmg (hc)

[grim jay]

And ye, moving mobs out of pb makes stuff worse, but should make both equally worse as thats a thing both have to deal with

[clever sapphire]

a sub almost did more add dmg than boss xD

[grim jay]

Its easy pad, but I guess you could make a point whether they have a comp that would just cleave those or not, but it mostly is pad. Top logs even use tornado iirc

Which isnt justified even if your group needs some adddamage

[clever sapphire]

welp i just got kicked for not doing enough add dmg even tho it was a heal issue, im just gonna go tornado sub next time

[pseudo hamlet]

How could you get kicked for not killing adds that fast on that fight, the leader must be a clown

In our kills the adds are melting and I understand that I won't be on the top meters because of that, but I am usually top boss dmg which is totally fine.

[ebon notch]

do it and stream it

i gotta see the clown show

[clever sapphire]

yap thats what happened, but pugs dont know that

they kick whats not in the top 7 xd

[peak bobcat]

So they kick all melee?

[subtle tundra]

Brother we had 1 2% and 1 1% wipe on neth yesterday. The clown show has started already

[clever sapphire]

nooo the raidlead is a melee so he is staying

[ebon notch]

we had a 0.02% wipe on sark

[subtle tundra]

That was the assa diff

[ebon notch]

if we hadnt killed id have gotten it tattoo'd on my forehead

[subtle tundra]

P3

Assa literally is in execute for the whole of p3

I am trying to gaslight my rl to let me play assa though

I shouldn't have played sub on neth so well

😔😔😔😔

[marble hemlock]

So?

[subtle tundra]

And?

[marble hemlock]

You mean sark, right?

[subtle tundra]

Yea

[marble hemlock]

Yeah

Execute doesn't mean shit on that fight

[subtle tundra]

🧢 Means something for me

[marble hemlock]

Cuz it phases after time, so you could just do more damage in P1/2 instead

[subtle tundra]

Ok on hc it's 60 and 40

[marble hemlock]

Ye

But you don't reach those numbers in mythic

[subtle tundra]

My mathematics haveny reached mythic yet

[marble hemlock]

It's either at those numbers or after time, whichever happens first

[subtle tundra]

I dont like this

[marble hemlock]

Same

[subtle tundra]

Nerf sark HP

Thanks

[clever sapphire]

send him your assa sims and say its better with haste

[subtle tundra]

I will

Already sent some propaganda

More to come

[marble hemlock]

But yeah it's kind of a side effect of designing bosses to not phase at xx% boss HP anymore. So you trade not having to DPS stop, for not getting value out of execute

[clever sapphire]

tell him to ask in assa channel if assa is better for sark

[subtle tundra]

My niecheee

[marble hemlock]

It's why evoker is so good this tier as well

Usually you'd say "they just do DMG early but not when it matters", but on a fight like sarkareth they still massively contribute to having a shorter P3 with their high P1 dps

[clever sapphire]

aight im staying in this group, offered to do bombs so now even if i have low dmg they cant complain easy

[pure moth]

I think you need to look for a new guild regardless. They clearly don't understand

[clever sapphire]

oh im not in a guild xD

was in one but loot handling triggered me so hard i just left

[pure moth]

Ah yeah. Its certainly a problem. Master loot is such a terrible idea. Alot of guilds are gearing up officers/friends first

[grim jay]

Just talk about loot before you join

Easy

[pure moth]

Can't really rely on that. They say 1 thing, do another.

All you can really do is accept it, be better than those people and 1 day you could be part of the in crowd

[grim jay]

Well if its a lootsystem they use and they make it transparent, there is very little you can cheat with without multiple people quitting

So talk about it and check the join/leave log

I never had a guild with a bad lootsystem and I was in multiple guilds over the last more than a decade

Level of play might be a factor tho ye

[pulsar dirge]

Many players have the mindset that if you played better on a boss you deserve the loot or if it's a bigger upgrade for them. But consistency is more important . You will funnel gear to an officer who you know is going to stay than some member who may leave next month ( just started uni etc)

[storm belfry]

Gl on vaults homies

[thorn fjord]

We generally gear prog raiders first whether they’re officers or normal raiders… outside of specific items DPS get prio over heals and tanks

We have 33 people trying to get in heroic so it kinda sucks for those not being in the main mythic team but they’re told ahead of time how we handle loot

I think it works for the most part

[pure moth]

Yeah i think alot of loot issues could be resolved if people spread the loot out rather than put it all on one person. Like key pieces

We also do dps over tanks and heals

[thorn fjord]

I got lucky this tier and was fed like that fat kid in Charlie in the chocolate factory 🤣

[pure moth]

One person doesnt make a team. Theres 19 other people on the team they need to think about.

[thorn fjord]

Yeah for sure… we’ve been getting really lucky

We got two beacons this week

[pure moth]

Nice

We havent had much trinket luck

[thorn fjord]

Everyone pretty much has 4p in prog group

[pure moth]

And we rolled off the cloak.. to simplify officers needing to debate. Person who won it, was also the one who got everything else lol

[thorn fjord]

Think we’ve only had 1-2 drop

But people were getting it in vault

[pure moth]

We've had 1 on normal

[thorn fjord]

I’m hoping for one in mine today hahaha

[pure moth]

Im hoping i never run into a cloak and bomb trinket combo in vault.

Cuz i wouldnt know what to do lol

[thorn fjord]

Cloak for sure

Bomb will come

Cloak is another eggnog ring only it’s on the last friggin boss

[subtle tundra]

And the more you have in your group the less dps you have

Cause other people literally steal your stats

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[clever sapphire]

what if i have 0% haste, like it legit doesnt even show up on my stats, do they just steal another stat or does it try to steal haste

[celest ruin]

you get integer overflow and your dots tick 10 times per sec

[pure moth]

Can you see in logs who gets stats stolen? Like how does it show up?

[viscid spear]

So it's a reverse Icon?

[thorn fjord]

its the commie cloak

THESE STATS ARE FOR EVERYONE

Have some haste comrade

[pure comet]

Is anyone else feeling weak in m+

[clever sapphire]

you will always feel weak if you have a SP in your group

well a good one

[pure comet]

Like, I can't be this bad, think assa really need a rework

Hurt to love this spec sometimes

[clever sapphire]

oh thought you were sub because of the color, tbh if the pulls are big enough you wont feel that weak

but like if its smaller pulls its just shit

[viscid spear]

I too would like to serve the USSR but unless I get it in Vault I don't think I'll see it for a while

[pure comet]

Thats it, only time I feel useful is when tank do big pulls, outside that small pull and boss I feel shit

[clever sapphire]

boss is okay, like you wont beat the top specs but its okay

[pure comet]

I feel like any ranged DPS can out damage me with 10ilvl lower lol

[pure comet]

Shouldn't we be top tier st spec? Maybe talented to m+ gets this off

[clever sapphire]

with m+ talents you are more middle or low tier ST

[pure comet]

Damn

[clever sapphire]

with ST talents you are top 8-9 probably in a raidfight

atleast thats how i have experienced it and looking at logs and whatnot

[pure comet]

Yeah

Thanks for the info

Not much I can do about it

Best of luck for us

[gaunt moat]

Hey, just pushed another update for sepsis WA, ver 1.0.5
It's a bug fix for the shiv reminder showing when shiv is on CD.
https://wago.io/Lgy47ma7G

[spice spire]

[storm belfry]

Nope

But pls buff us

[midnight spire]

Hey!!

why is sepsis being cast very early in fight (in first 5 secs)?

[pure comet]

Copium

[clever sapphire]

i mean its a dmg cooldown, you apply empowered garrote with it

[deft flicker]

Why wouldn’t you?? It throws sepsis on cooldown so you can get more uses of it in a fight

[frigid kestrel]

Because this is your opener and this is your reasoning #1065730164077645916 message. One check of the Pins and the FAQ and you would have found all your answers

[storm belfry]

i mean i really dont lol

[pure comet]

I mean, good for you

Spec is rated in legit F tier at subcreation

Need some attention for sure

[subtle tundra]

Sub creation tier list

I mean, yea, the spec is bad

[pure comet]

Well

[subtle tundra]

But not cause subcreation said it

[pure comet]

Look at whatever tier list you want

Spec is bad

[subtle tundra]

I don't need to look

[pure comet]

Bruh what

[subtle tundra]

Anywhere

[pure comet]

Lol

I see you don't look anywhere

[subtle tundra]

Ive tried to play it and I know it's bad

[pure comet]

Your comments make no sense lol, but yes we agree on this

[subtle tundra]

I literally said it's bad from the get-go

[storm belfry]

tier lsits are cringe and never right

[pure comet]

Sure lol

[storm belfry]

spec needds some work but

if you think its super down bad in keyus sounds like a skill issue idk

[pure comet]

Yea

Skill issue

Sure

I'm bad the spec is demolishing in m+

[storm belfry]

i mean i said i feel fine in keys and you said copium so you seem hurt or soemthing

[pure comet]

Dude, if you feel fine

[subtle tundra]

we literally didnt say its good

[pure comet]

Good for you

Not everyone does like it rn

[storm belfry]

thanks

but like

[pure comet]

Tha ks for the opinion but it does not make spec any better

[weak horizon]

it's objectively on the weaker end in keys

[storm belfry]

well

i will say do not follow tier lists

[weak horizon]

but that doesn't mean you can't still time higher keys

[subtle tundra]

saying a spec is bad cause subcreation is ranking it low doesnt mean jack shit

[weak horizon]

who was the mofo who got the title last season on sin?

[pure comet]

So spec is bad, subcreation says it's bad, but subcreation tier list tho omegalul

Makes sense

Fish sir

[storm belfry]

subcreation in general

[subtle tundra]

do you even know how subcreation

[storm belfry]

is a terrible site

[subtle tundra]

makes the tier list

[pure comet]

Alright, every site so says it's trash

[subtle tundra]

tell me

do you know

[weak horizon]

are you guys really arguing that sin is strong in m+?

[storm belfry]

dude you need to go outside lmao

[storm belfry]

i do not feel weak

but i am not meta and i know thjat

but i keep up so idk

[pure comet]

Yea they are saying sub is this or that and assa rogue feel fine for me

Lol

Cant argue with this

[gaunt moat]

They're arguing what source tells them that it's bad when they both agree it's bad

[storm belfry]

i nevber once mentioned sub

you are delusional

[subtle tundra]

we didnt

say

that

holy fuck!

[pure comet]

Lol

[subtle tundra]

youre just inventing shit

[pure comet]

Discord feels

[frigid kestrel]

Sin doesn't feel god awful in keys to me either. Like i understand its at the lower end , but i still average 120 - 120 overall and in the 18 - 20 category thats just fine.

[storm belfry]

i simply said if yuou feel weak in keys as assa then it may be a skill issue cause i do not

[subtle tundra]

least delusional rogue player

[storm belfry]

and i perform well

[weak horizon]

okay, we can all agree that sin is objectively one of the weaker m+ specs numbers-wise

let's settle it at that?

[subtle tundra]

nobody said it aint

[storm belfry]

i know that it is

[frigid kestrel]

I guess it would probably feel different at different key levels as well too

[weak horizon]

just trying to resolve this

[pure comet]

I'm talking about 17+ keys

So yes

We can agree on this

[storm belfry]

im doing 20s

[frigid kestrel]

I think everyone has said that

[clever sapphire]

17+ is where it starts getting fine, 16- i hate it because i press IC and everything dead

[weak horizon]

yeah, not saying that someone has disagreed with that now; i'm just trying to establish common ground

[pure comet]

They say subcreation is bad website, but it is right that assassination is bad

That's the point

[storm belfry]

okay cause its right about one thing

[pure comet]

The guy is clearly drunk

[storm belfry]

whoopty do

the site is ass

[clever sapphire]

tierlists are bad, subcreation is one of them so he is right

[subtle tundra]

do you know how it ranks the specs

based on what metric

[weak horizon]

i think dslice sims are a good indicator of spec strength in m+

well

somewhat

[pure comet]

You can say it's bad, but you agree it are correct on assa rogue

[frigid kestrel]

Yea, your not going to find a common ground on "Feels" because thats what this arises from.

[weak horizon]

i guess it omits utility

[pure comet]

I don't care about the website

It is right about the spec

[subtle tundra]

you keep omitting my question

wonder why

[storm belfry]

okay well

[subtle tundra]

fucking hell

[weak horizon]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[storm belfry]

who cares that its right

[pure comet]

You drunk bro

[storm belfry]

no one cares about thje site

[pure comet]

Go to sleep

[storm belfry]

no you are the one who needs sleep putting words in varas in mines mouth

[clever sapphire]

but if we look at it another way assa is better than sub, because tettles made a tierlist and put it above sub. So is subcreation correct or tettles? 🤔

[ember mural]

Don't feed the troll

[subtle tundra]

TRUE

[weak horizon]

when your dslice sims lower than your st you know something is wrong

[clever sapphire]

ssh

xD

[subtle tundra]

i better spec assa for this weekly otherwise we deplete

[storm belfry]

keep doing sub 80k dps and blaming the spec and not trying to get better

i cba this convo

[pure comet]

One guys vs every single other fonts

Well lol

Great thinking process

[weak horizon]

yo, who was that mofo who got title last tier with sin?

like how the fuck did he do that shit

[fringe spear]

You can't really use the number on dungeon slice as gospel

[weak horizon]

like you have to be so fucking insanely good at sin to pull that off

[fringe spear]

It's more for gearing decisions

[subtle tundra]

he played 12h a day

[storm belfry]

i dont even use dslice

[weak horizon]

gah damn

[pure comet]

Damn

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[thorn fjord]

What is happening

[storm belfry]

doom into anger into delusion

[weak horizon]

fuck dslice all my homies use excel

[royal lantern]

i dont belive in sims

[warm shell]

are sims in the room with us right now

[pure comet]

I don't believe in subcreation

[thorn fjord]

Yeah robots are controlled by the FBI

[royal lantern]

yes

[storm belfry]

i just do diff sims instead of dsclice idk

[weak horizon]

i think conventional wisdom is that you should definitely do dslice for m+ gearing decisions in general

i think special cases like speccing more into ST when your group has strong aoe are definitely valid

[storm belfry]

i sim my aoe by doing 7-8 targets

[weak horizon]

so you do like patchwerk 7/8 target sims?

[storm belfry]

yep 1 min no lust

not saying dsclice is bad but personally ive had better outcomes doing that in game

do a few of those and a few 3min ST ones w no lust and im good

thats for m+ for raid i just do standard 5 m ST w lust

[weak horizon]

that's an interesting approach, and i don't know enough about dslice sims to know about it's efficacy

[storm belfry]

i did it before but then zero showed me a better way than the one i was doingf so i just do that now

[weak horizon]

zerocool?

[clever sapphire]

and than im here, i only sim 5 min patchwerk, for dungeons i just take the suggested build and adjust nodes for the dungeon

[limber lion]

No you literally just need a group to play with or pug 16 hours a day

[clever sapphire]

and if that new build loses too much ST i know i fucked up and take the suggested build

xD

[storm belfry]

si

[weak horizon]

well he's a pumper, so i guess he must be on to something if he uses that instead of dslice

[subtle tundra]

every single spec in the game can get the title

[limber lion]

Literally

[clever sapphire]

[weak horizon]

well, i definitely believe that, but it's undeniably easier on some specs as opposed to other specs, yeah?

[clever sapphire]

i was sure its harcoded that assa cant

[weak horizon]

and sin would be one of the harder specs to pull it off on i'd think

[subtle tundra]

doing the max key -2 isnt as difficult as people seem to think when you just spam keys continuously

and i can tell you that since i've done it

[limber lion]

It's just a matter of time

[subtle tundra]

i've played high keys with good group as assa

[limber lion]

Just literally play the game and do m+ 16 hours a day and you'll get it

[subtle tundra]

pushing is time investment, with mediocre skill

me included

[weak horizon]

surely at the top you need a good amount of skill, right?

[subtle tundra]

yea to get r1 keys

[limber lion]

"At the top"

[subtle tundra]

but to get title

[weak horizon]

i guess i think of at the top as title level

[subtle tundra]

thats comparing world first to world 100

[weak horizon]

to be more explicit

[subtle tundra]

in raid

probably even less difference

[limber lion]

But like ZC ain't super optimal, there's plenty who play better

[weak horizon]

but maybe i'm just basing that off how i felt like i kind of capped on my progression last tier

[limber lion]

But he plays so much more than anyone else

500 keys a season is not really something most people can pull off

[weak horizon]

idk how you maintain the motivation to keep playing that much

[strange python]

It's probably one of the worst overall dps specs.

[limber lion]

People love the chase

Same reason why people play League 16 hours a day

[pure comet]

No truths allowed here bruh, delete the comment pls

[thorn fjord]

Clinical depression?

[storm belfry]

not denying it

[gusty mirage]

Undiagnosed depression

close though

[brazen zodiac]

oxi!

[limber lion]

Would explain why I'm much happier now than 10 years ago

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

Ignore it

[gusty mirage]

if I pretend it doesn't exist, it can't hurt me

[spice spire]

Exactly

Just like this 447 vers ring waiting on me after gifting a 20 BH to guildies

[gusty mirage]

damn

didn't gift oxipal a 20

[spice spire]

Can oxipal survive the first boss on a 20?

Our shaman learned a lot that run

[gusty mirage]

absolutely not

[spice spire]

Took three wipes before he learned that slt broken for the initial bleed

Didn’t take stoneskin totem

We had a chuckle of a time

[gusty mirage]

if oxipal tried tanking a 20

the boss would show up to my house

and log onto my computer

and delete my character

[spice spire]

LMFAO

Quakethree gets fucked sideways in 17s (still 419 btw )

[gaunt moat]

It took me like 2 minutes to realize oxipal was your paladin. i thought you were talking about some depression medicine

[pulsar dirge]

I still think we are better in m+ than in sl so its an improvement

[gusty mirage]

414 w/o any tier bonus btw

[spice spire]

Do you raid tonight?

[pulsar dirge]

like some packs you can demolish aoe some aoe specs and it feels good as an assa

[gusty mirage]

I do

[spice spire]

Unluigi

[gusty mirage]

I also raid thursday

[spice spire]

We do our normal rat run tn

[gusty mirage]

and sunday

[spice spire]

Was gonna invite

[gusty mirage]

I pugged 8/9 normal on my pally

PRAY FOR TIER BOYS

[spice spire]

Since ur not on zenith it’s kosher

[gusty mirage]

pref shoulders cause I got 389s

[spice spire]

Zenith is illegal to join on

[gusty mirage]

I'm just gonna head over to hammer of wrath from now

prot pally is fun af

see ya nerds

[storm belfry]

I'll heal ya

[spice spire]

Prot Pally is fun

[gusty mirage]

once you get gear

[spice spire]

Blood dk is fun.
It’s just shit rn

[gusty mirage]

you're practically invincible

[spice spire]

Yeah it feels really good getting gear as a tank

For now

I’m getting purg proccd by the triple pull on a FH 17 on tyran

[gusty mirage]

lmao

unlucky

just bubble taunt it 5head

but yeah

I was quadruple pulling in 11s and 14s

and I was straight chilling

which should not be a thing at 414 ilvl

only shitty part as a prot pally is when you run out of buttons

you just die

vs prot warrior where you can kinda make it work

[grim jay]

just bought 9/9

from my boosting paycheck

wouldnt pug normal without gear

[gusty mirage]

oh it was a disaster

[grim jay]

actual low ilvl runs are a pain I imagine

[gusty mirage]

I'm surprised we got echo dead

lmao

[grim jay]

some guildies tried to pug sarka hc on their alts

was watching their streams

cant imagine whats happening there

[gusty mirage]

my tank never did the taunt swap on nelth properly

so after the tank mechanic

I'd just die

because he'd melee me twice for all my health

lmao

[grim jay]

thats always awesome

like tanking normal is literally being afk

and just taunting when the addon yells at you

but some people cant manage

[spice spire]

Our tanks always mess up rashok. Healer and I did it perfectly

[calm trail]

hi, does the does the dragon-tempered blades m+ build really do enough dmg on trash to justify it?

[grim jay]

I've heard of some tanks that dont use addons and stuff. maybe its one of those

we had a trial for CE progress guild that didnt use WA or bigwigs/dbm

[spice spire]

One doesn’t mic so if an oopsie is made it’s a wipe

[spice spire]

Depends on the pull sizes.
It’s really duality of man type thing.
Did a brackenhide where I barely lost top damage despite dying in the first 25% of two bosses, and another where we pulled 2-4 mobs at a time only and I was sol

In general yes

[gusty mirage]

my old guild had a guy who was trialing during s4 of SL

in his app

puts "I can play all 3 mage specs"

only played arcane

regardless of fight

then he wiped us 4 times on jailer

and goes "lol I don't have WAs its a meme season"

he did not pass his trial

[grim jay]

dont get those people

there legit isnt any reason to not use certain addons

[royal lantern]

hey, thats me but with rogue

(atleast i play other specs if it is really needed, like sub for broodkeeper adds)

[spice spire]

I can play all three, I just refuse

[thorny pond]

If you the goat, why change @spice spire

[spice spire]

I ain’t the goat

[thorny pond]

yea you are

[storm belfry]

🐐

actually you ^

[gusty mirage]

no no they mean you're an actual goat

[thorny pond]

Yea, he'll eat your grASS @gusty mirage

[viscid spear]

Guy On A Tirade?

[simple gulch]

remember the last time sin owned in m+?

[eager sorrel]

I was so happy to see IC as a talent and thought it would be way better then it is :P

[viscid spear]

[spice spire]

No

[gusty mirage]

I miss her

[spice spire]

I never knew her

[honest mantle]

im pulling 120k+ overall dps in m+ atm

its playable

in +20 keys

way more than i can pull in the other specs for some reason

[gaunt moat]

Teach me, cause i'm not even close to that. i'm lucky to pass 100k

[pure moth]

^

[gusty mirage]

it all depends on the tank

unfortunately

if they're chaining like shit

which most tanks do

it just fucks your damage

[wraith cosmos]

Or yknow...spiiteful week

[gusty mirage]

spiteful week is fine for damage

you bleed the shades and go to the next pack

it's free energy

[spice spire]

Spiteful week was huge for dam

Yeah

[gusty mirage]

they will always die with a small rupture on them

[spice spire]

I had a 130 in nelth. Felt good

[gusty mirage]

which is giga energy refund

[spice spire]

But that tank was GAMING

Turns out if you have full scent, you pump hard 🙂

[viscid spear]

Ask Quake about totems

[wraith cosmos]

More about them keeping you in combat when most tanks ignore those and just pull more during it

[spice spire]

Yeah, you just vanish when you can

It’s not night and day on restealths

[spice spire]

8 wipes to the boss

Man

[viscid spear]

8 on a 20 isn't bad though
I couldn't even find a 20

Of course I was tired, cared less by the minute, and play a Mage so I went to bed

[grim jay]

bro like

neltharions lair last boss

is kinda an unsolved mystery to randoms

I dont get it

[viscid spear]

• place rock pillar 30y away from Dargrul
• have to kite add the whole way
• healer complains about the amount of damage happening

[spice spire]

Mage was wanted this week

Nelth lair is a wildly easy boss

[viscid spear]

was?

[spice spire]

Literally worm sucks

[rocky ruin]

Does ambush use the sepsis proc again?

[viscid spear]

DK tank

[spice spire]

Tanking it is fine

Dpsing as a melee less so

[spice spire]

Yes

If you have bs + sepsis it procs bs first iirc

[rocky ruin]

doesnt they fix it that it doesnt

[viscid spear]

Had a DK tank demand the Priest LG him because he couldn't outrun the pull-in
Mind you he didn't seem to be running through pools

[spice spire]

Or using death’s advance

[viscid spear]

He made it very clear that he was not mobile.
His key, and he specifically wanted a Priest healer.

I was just along for the ride

[gusty mirage]

that was the fix

it was consuming sepsis proc when blindside was up

now it prioritizes blindside

[rocky ruin]

ahh nvm i did change something in the wa

[honest mantle]

try to garrote IN STEALTH with IC, ER rupture, ER crimson tempest and just spam envenom hoping for posion bombs, the pack is probably dead before needing to reapply dots, if not just keep looking for posion bomb procs and crimson tempest, probably more damage than reapplying to all the mobs. Get a feel for which packs you should use IC on because you wont have it every pull. Smaller packs you can just garrote and rupture all the mobs no problem.

Vanish IC rupture is very important too

garrote***

[gaunt moat]

hah, I appreciate that
I wasn't very clear i was being cynical 😅

[honest mantle]

hey im just happy to help as everyone in this discord is towards me 🙂

[keen spruce]

they just booli me

[gusty mirage]

@spice spire am I getting a big vault?

[spice spire]

Yes

Larger than average

Deece ring?

Idk what you even need

Ur kinda large

[viscid spear]

All cloaks and belts

[gusty mirage]

helmet, ring or ring w/ socket, OH at 447?

idk

there aint much

heroic bomba

ig

[spice spire]

Ring

[gusty mirage]

for that big 4 ilvl

[spice spire]

Or heroic bomba

[keen spruce]

all of that farming

wasted

[spice spire]

Make the new one, shmeeps

[strange python]

447 dice. Big or no

[gusty mirage]

solid

[spice spire]

Deece

[strange python]

It's like, 4th after bomb, nelth, drag?

[gusty mirage]

insane vault

[strange python]

Frag

[keen spruce]

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

bro this company is hilariously bad at everything it does

helm with socket

both with a socket

[spice spire]

[thorn fjord]

Bleh

[gusty mirage]

okay

important decision

tier helm w/ socket for tmog

or haste/mastery helm w/ socket

[thorn fjord]

Thats right you crafted on belt

[gusty mirage]

no I didn't

[thorn fjord]

Wrist?

[gusty mirage]

no

[thorn fjord]

Oh

Im crafting helm

fuck the tier helm

[gusty mirage]

I mean

seems kinda pointless to craft a helm

when I have a 447 with a socket

sitting in my vault

[thorn fjord]

Then what are you gonna put patch on

[gusty mirage]

craft bracers

those bracers are crit/vers

err

vers/mastery

[thorn fjord]

And you're not touching sub at all?

[gusty mirage]

I mean I am

but what am I going to take

a socket?

lol

[thorn fjord]

fuggit

socket gamers

I might take a socket lol

brb work meeting

[gusty mirage]

I could just craft better bracers

[gaunt moat]

What do you mean bleh, that neck is one of the best

[frigid kestrel]

Do the affixes justify me playing AP this week ? 🤔

I just want an excuse to play it

[storm belfry]

my rogue got garb

but my druid loots rashoks

whats funny is only one of our healers have rashoks

[subtle tundra]

where ptr

[vocal oracle]

how's the black dragonscale trinket for assa? Anyone use it yet?

[storm belfry]

healer trinket imo

[keen spruce]

tf is afflicted

[runic hinge]

healer affix

[vapid sierra]

So we never got that blue post

Did we

[desert tiger]

So raidbot is saying that Homeland Raid horn is a DPS increase from our BIS trink Irideus Fragment. Is raidbots correct? My fragment is 437. Could raidbots be wrong?

[spice spire]

There’s still@yome

[spice spire]

Where fragment BiS

[desert tiger]

bloodmallet

[spice spire]

It’s been beacon and dragonbomb forever

[drifting cloud]

do not play horn

[desert tiger]

well mythic plus bis trink

[spice surge]

Its not the bis trinket no

[pseudo hamlet]

Neltharion is bis in M+ I think

[pure moth]

Was that. latest sims show fragment over beacon

[desert tiger]

My main question is if raidbots says its better is it really better?

[spice spire]

Yes

[desert tiger]

or does raidbots not taking the on use stat increase into consideration?

[spice surge]

It takes all of it into consideration

Besides the fact that you have to dodge the cannons of raid horn

It just assumes you always dodge em and hit all of them

[desert tiger]

So i grab the raid horn

[spice surge]

Youll regret it, but go ahead

[desert tiger]

cause its a dps incrase

okay lol

[spice surge]

Can always grab a socket

[desert tiger]

tru but its a good upgrade ig

[drifting cloud]

rip

probably biggest simbait trinket in last 2xpacs

[spice spire]

Funny/cute little thing

With sepsis = fragment fucks with the lights on, without, it’s 3rd/4th:

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jeLpgn6Q4gHUqxD3j94fKo

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d7daKMQ1KFQEzV3dKnQvFL

[keen spruce]

[spice spire]

And yes my gear is ass

[viscid spear]

Would you rather it be Sub or Out?

[spice spire]

?

[winter gale]

Sim suggest 2x Wafting

Should I ingore that?

[viscid spear]

Ass? Assassination?

[keen spruce]

tf is a wafting

[spice spire]

Weapon enchant

[spice spire]

How much of a difference

[keen spruce]

[spice spire]

For 2x wafting over 1/1 or double sophic

[winter gale]

Over 2xSophic but I need to do just that as it's suggested with one more item and total is 0.4%

[keen spruce]

oh haste sims well for me rn too

all of my secondary gems are crit haste now

[spice spire]

0.4% tells me nothing

Raw number

[keen spruce]

i'm runnin mine

standby

[winter gale]

458

[limber lion]

[keen spruce]

wafting sounds like a fart enchant

[pure moth]

I have a 437 version. Ive been running that plus incarn.

[bitter compass]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[winter gale]

@spice spire when simmed solely enchants 1xWafting on main weapon is 0.2% / 180dps for me.

That's not something big and I do play m+ often so I could/should stay with Sophic?

[spice spire]

depends on what you find worth tbh

It’s not wrong per se. 0.4% is a lot but wasn’t sure if it was 0.4 when you’re simming for 80 or not

[spice spire]

I’ve ran some cursed hois despite it being one of the easier places

[pure moth]

All my runs are cursed

[keen spruce]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/umzm79YbQ65YDg6vgVsVbf

fart enchant seems very marginal

[spice spire]

You don’t have either ring 🤨

[keen spruce]

they don't sim higher

atm

i just didn't include them in this one cuz it would take 70 years to run

[thorn fjord]

I have it already

[wide ridge]

not worth it to get a 447 cloak from vault right, since sarkareth cloak exists

[keen spruce]

when do you plan on killin mythic sark

[wide ridge]

444 heroic cloak should beat a 447 for sure

[keen spruce]

probably

[subtle tundra]

when do you plan on killing it AND getting it

[keen spruce]

when does you guild plan on givin you heroic cloak

cuz we've got like 15 raiders that are thinkin the same thing lol

[wide ridge]

hahahaha

[keen spruce]

also it's like a 24k health loss

[gusty mirage]

@spice spire

[spice spire]

I’m a 435 rat atm

[thorn fjord]

Boner inducing

[gusty mirage]

now we check the important character

my paladin

[spice spire]

Amen

Tier or thicc ass trinket

[thorn fjord]

Still havent picked anything out of vault

Crafting my helm now

Then simmy time

[gusty mirage]

how about all of the above

[spice spire]

Quakethree about to get shafted two weeks in a row

[gusty mirage]

I have to take helm

right

its on hero track

[spice spire]

And that’s on G

Yeah

[gusty mirage]

others are champion track

[spice spire]

Yeah that’s a hard helm angle instead

[gusty mirage]

but my shoulders are 398

[fallow canopy]

tfw when your vault is so shit your greatest upgrade is the socket with the tokens

[spice spire]

Sockets are nothing to laugh at friend

(I’m coping because I have a socket cooking rn)

[fallow canopy]

ik but I'd expect with several 440+ items in GV at 427 ilvl I'd get an upgrade, but well RNG gonna RNG

[ancient rain]

Imagine forcing Holinka to quit blizzard just so you can create a decoy story to postpone the assassination rework 1 more day. It's fine tho, we'll get it tomorrow

[woven frost]

What piece are y'all putting your Toxic Patch on?

[limber lion]

Bracers probably

[woven frost]

I'm going to miss my brez bracers. Or at least my team will lol

[limber lion]

I mean you can slap it on anything basically

Choose a non-tier slot and you're gucci

[spice spire]

See a lot of bracers and a lot of belt

[thorn fjord]

I went helm

Im a degen

[spice spire]

[thorn fjord]

Look at these juicy numbers tho

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/casne1Ndg9JmRDrVn7dY18

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/m6iBf7Wug7gbnaAG6UcvtB

[spice spire]

Lil bro is 439 with a 421 and 424 ring

[tacit charm]

Is sin best ST?

[weak horizon]

out of the 3 rogue specs or out of all the specs in the game?

[spice spire]

No

[weak horizon]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[weak horizon]

out of the 3 rogue specs it is actually highest ST

but barely by anything

[keen spruce]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/733609658912210986/1113181308152205472/image.png

just gotta upgrade the belt

and pretend i'm running exang so my numbers look bigger

[thorn fjord]

💪

[thorn fjord]

its not though

[weak horizon]

Really? Looking at fuus spreadsheet it would indicate it is

[wraith cosmos]

doesnt sub beat us out in pretty much all content?

at least atm

[weak horizon]

It definitely does in m+ but it does seem sin sims higher at the top end of gear

[vestal wren]

it depends on what talent combo you play

if anything, all 3 are incredibly close on pure st

and people find new apl optimizations or simulations change a bit

e.g. just recently we had fixes with some embellishments

subtlety is actually down a bit form what it sims, the standard build is a bit weaker

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uu3wcSbSnFd6q8uueHonth

^ you can see it as the baseline in this sim (need to open it)

[thorn fjord]

Miss me with that rotten play

[vestal wren]

but we introduced a lot of optimizations for the rotten

and the rotten build does sim very close to assassination now

[thorn fjord]

It’s only like 1.something ahead of DM build tho no?

[vestal wren]

open the sim

[spice surge]

1.8% ye

[vestal wren]

it is quite noticeable by now

i think outlaw is also cooking up some imrpvoements currently

[spice surge]

https://tenor.com/view/desmondpacito-cooking-chef-gif-12378159

[vestal wren]

what you can say 100% is that all 3 specs have the potential

and with rotten all three can end up at aroudn 133k dps

[thorn fjord]

Hard to tell on phone I can’t see shit lol

[vestal wren]

i got you with the screnshot above

[thorn fjord]

Ah ok

Atleast we have spec variety

It’s not much but it’s still variety

[trail root]

With Afflicted in M+, is there anything we have in our tools that we can help with this affix?

[vestal wren]

blind

[wraith cosmos]

nah, we should complain, say we're unplayable, and beg blizzard for buffs

[thorn fjord]

Blind gauge kick and kidney

Mainly blind

[spice surge]

Afflicted is the dispel one

Thats on NA right now

[thorn fjord]

Ohh

Derp

[spice surge]

and im fairly sure we have literally nothing against it

[wraith cosmos]

no rage debuff so no

enrage*

[vestal wren]

its more that fights are not pure st in raid

[trail root]

thats what i was afraid of

[vestal wren]

and statistics are havily impacted by figths that we can pad on

[wraith cosmos]

shhh...dont tell blizzard that

jokes aside

[thorn fjord]

I have only 2 upgrades from max heroic now and one of them is cloak

Other is like a .2 catalyst upgrade lol

[wraith cosmos]

st we do good, we can pad some but not as well as other classes/specs. we're not unviable and i enjoy playing ass so it works out for me

[limpid quest]

question do you take your [Failed Applicant's Footpads] and enchant them whith slimy expulsion? or just wear them as they are??

[indigo mulch]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[thorn fjord]

Slimy is the boots

[limpid quest]

what ones are better?

[thorn fjord]

You don’t add the embellishment to boots

Toxic is ahead now after the fix

For sin

Slimy still better for sub and OL iirc

[wraith cosmos]

it is hilarious to me that exsang and venom rush sim the same for me

[limpid quest]

so slimy ones are better for sin

tx for advice

[thorn fjord]

Toxic is better for sin but slimey still good

[limpid quest]

can I put toxic on the fasiled foot pads?

[pure moth]

Its actual boots. Its not an enchant. You can craft either slimy or toxic boots.

[thorn fjord]

Yeah ^^^^^

you craft toxic patch on your other piece

But slimy or toxic boots is just the boots you dont add it to the life bound boots

[limpid quest]

so for my [Failed Applicant's Footpads] put toxic on them for best sin

[cunning nest]

Most of us did the weaker ones ^^

[pure moth]

You need to craft the boots

[limpid quest]

k ty

[Slimy Expulsion Boots |A:Professions-ChatIcon-Quality-Tier5:17:17::1|a][Failed Applicant's Footpads]

[clever sapphire]

how the hell did i manage to get this on my rogue

[thorn fjord]

If you play Sub and OL also make slimey

[limpid quest]

yea these are my two boots im wearing the slimy ons at moment

I only play assasin

[Slimy Expulsion Boots |A:Professions-ChatIcon-Quality-Tier5:17:17::1|a][Failed Applicant's Footpads]

[keen spruce]

you don't use failed applicant's footpads

cuz you need to craft slimy or toxic boots

then put the toxic patch on somethin else

[limpid quest]

ty

[west swallow]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[outer lodge]

2 weeks in a row, 2 sockets from the vault

[scenic horizon]

Got cape and bomb trinket from vault, chose bomb because they were within like 50 dps of eachother. Maybe I’m dumb but bombs go boom.

[balmy condor]

I’m still letting it cook

[spice spire]

Low and slow eh?

[thick sable]

What's the pandemic window for Rupture? I know garotte is 5.4 seconds

[gaunt moat]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[gaunt moat]

oh it doesn't say the times

[thick sable]

Right. So what i'm asking is the Rupture panemic timing based on the # of Combo points? Or is it a set window each time like garotte?

Cause garotte is 18 seconds, but rupture varies on CP

What CP are we basing that 30% on?

[limber lion]

Yes, Rupture's pandemic is dependent on the CP used.

We generally say that it's 7.2s, which is 30% of 4CP

You pretty much never (or very, very rarely) want to Rupture at lower than 4CP

So knowing the pandemic timer for 1-3CP is not necessary or worthwhile to track

And the leeway that the 4CP gives you is plenty where you don't need to think about the 5-7CP pandemics either

[thick sable]

Perfect. Makes sense and answers what i'm looking for. Thanks!

[clever sapphire]

well my life is easier, afenar wa glows when its in pandemic

[limber lion]

All weak aura packages should do that

[wraith cosmos]

does afenar's actually take into account cp used?

or is it a static for 5 cp

[limber lion]

It does not because it's legit useless information

[clever sapphire]

well tbh before you said it a didnt even know about that cp thingy

but like do i care? no
does this make me do less dmg? no
do i know this for sure? no

[wraith cosmos]

i know this cause i made a weakaura to track bleeds, entirely because the bleed icons are invisible on rasz otherwise

[balmy condor]

they were fine for me

[signal kayak]

vault question cause I don't know how sim items in my vault....4 piece more important than ilevel?? or ilvl trump?? I have Raid finder pants in my vault that go up to 428, so I drop 9 ilvls but gain 4 piece....or I grab 441 trinket homeland raid horn and replace windswept scar with it......

[limber lion]

That's a "sim yourself" question unfortunately

We can't tell you what to do

[balmy condor]

have your vault open and /simc, it'll add it to your import

[signal kayak]

ty @balmy condor

[runic hinge]

I can’t wait to tell my m+ group AP is bis this week

[balmy condor]

I can't wait to bring my rogue utility to m+

and do tank damage

[spice spire]

Amen brother

Pray that tank is a bdk so you feel good about your damage

If it’s a Paladin

[balmy condor]

I love how paladin has iron wire, in combat, on like a 10 second cooldown

[spice spire]

Yeah

We’re really just the prot Paladin you have at home

[balmy condor]

I'm for sure keeping myself safe

[gusty mirage]

that applies to everything regardless*

[spice spire]

Me too pal, me too

Think I gotta raid lead this week

And I want to unalive

[signal kayak]

why run ap?

[viscid spear]

We're getting 3/9M, believe it

[limber lion]

Because it's raging

[spice spire]

Raging

[limber lion]

AP allows for AoE soothe

[signal kayak]

ok

[balmy condor]

also gives you free depression seeing your damage not go over 250k ever

[signal kayak]

guess im not running high enough keys to matter yet...what 18+ or just run it as utility

[balmy condor]

while you have a frost dk doing like

900k

[limber lion]

Hey I bursted 400k today!

I'm a big boy

also hit 100k sim

🥶

[balmy condor]

yeh for 0.1 seconds

in a freehold

[limber lion]

Hey now it was halls okay

[spice spire]

I almost hit 500k once

[outer lodge]

This week from vault, would you guys choose a socket, or a 447 helm (and hold for catalyst) ?

[spice spire]

The copium was insane

[limber lion]

But yeh you right

[balmy condor]

are you able to get a 447 helm from mythic

[signal kayak]

open vault, /simc copy and sim

[limber lion]

I love it

[signal kayak]

i just learned myself

[limber lion]

From one person to another

[outer lodge]

we'll be 4/9 this week, so eventaully yes i will.

[balmy condor]

then don't take the helm

would be silly

[austere fulcrum]

Are u guys going higher than 5.400 crit ? And why haste sims so much but doesn’t do shit ?

Even sim is not okay with Sin rogue or what now

[spice spire]

Wat

[austere fulcrum]

Wat to which part ?

[drifting cosmos]

haste does speed up your dots no?

[spice spire]

All of it

Haste does things, specific numbers don’t matter robot smart.

Last part idk at all

[drifting cosmos]

And not very important but energy regen

[austere fulcrum]

We not using it for energy regen at all I believe at this stage.

It helps bleed tick yes but it looks like putting haste is useless because we dont go full haste and when it is little, it basically doesn’t matter

I might be wrong but i tested on fights

Seriously asking if someone has info on this, it looks like going over crit cap ( 5400 ) is better than having haste at this point

Or more mastery obviously

[drifting cloud]

crit cap doesnt exist

[austere fulcrum]

U lose -10% value after 5400 raw points

And u lose another 10% after 50% crit

[drifting cloud]

thats not a cap

[austere fulcrum]

I meant this by cap, sorry for wording

[drifting cosmos]

🤨how do ppl explain this, that sim > feelcraft

And it’s a bad hobbit going after stats sim

[balmy condor]

I burnt it

it cooked too long

[austere fulcrum]

It is a sad Vault:(:(

[drifting cosmos]

Graz on purple name btw, Whispyr

[balmy condor]

ty

[spice spire]

My vault gonna be crispy 💀💀💀

[balmy condor]

SURELY right

the scale

FOR SURE

[austere fulcrum]

I m in EU, just waiting for my 447 weapon

[spice spire]

Lil bro juiced on trinkets

Meanwhile I’m struggling with a 437 dice

[balmy condor]

I have faith

[spice spire]

@ember mural still rocking a 411 grieftorch

[balmy condor]

in this magmussy

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

no one believed in the tusk

but I did

[austere fulcrum]

I never seen someone use mammoth trinket

[balmy condor]

I believed

[spice spire]

Just feelcraft it

[drifting cloud]

hes cooking the sims

[spice spire]

Trust

[balmy condor]

I gave it the chance

when no one else would

[spice spire]

-1200

[royal lantern]

but the FEELS

[ember mural]

[austere fulcrum]

I did the same, i still regret

[balmy condor]

hm.

[spice spire]

[austere fulcrum]

Xd

[spice spire]

Big gains

Surely it’ll get a buff

[balmy condor]

socket time baybeeeeee

[spice spire]

Your options were still better than doz’s 💀

[balmy condor]

wait you can buy a drakes crest for 1 of these coins?

fucking lmao

[runic hinge]

We were this close to greatness

[balmy condor]

that's so huge

[ebon notch]

Oh no whispyr

Not that trinket