assassination

[solar bramble]

i mean . . . . it wouldn't be too far different from feral druid rip bites. . . if the % is just as low

[royal lantern]

1/4 is covenant abilitys and the last 1/4 is basic parts of our toolkit as talents

[gusty mirage]

still better than rotten sepsis

fuckin huge L for sub rogues

[keen spruce]

i refuse

i literally just got ocmfy with sub in keys

and they start putting out this newfangled shit

[solar bramble]

a poison bomb from any target effected by rupture. and having IC lower in the tree would do some damage. . . just a lower damage poison bomb

[keen spruce]

i don't even know what rotten does

give us an AoE envenom instead of CT

[gusty mirage]

buffs gloomblade

[solar bramble]

rotten makes your gloomblade/shadowstrike after symbols of death generate 4 extra combo poitns

[gusty mirage]

which makes sense

[solar bramble]

and 50% extra damage

[gusty mirage]

just say gloom

cause you don't use it on strike

[worn sorrel]

Is shadow dance bad as assa?

[gusty mirage]

[keen spruce]

so it's just like 90% of the sub talents

[royal lantern]

"bad" doesnt even describe it

[hallow sonnet]

Did people really enjoy PB proccing on rupture?
I always really disliked that

[gusty mirage]

dance isn't bad, but the fact that it's tied behind 3 useless points is terrible

specifically this bad boy

2 points

[solar bramble]

only thing i could see dance have for assa is a dance > spread empowered garrotes. . . or maybe ambushes for ST. . or something along the line

[gusty mirage]

to buff your auto attack damage

[royal lantern]

i dont like PB in general cus RNG procs suck

[gusty mirage]

bleeds and poisons already ignore armor

unlucky

FW is so bad, sub doesn't play double dance because of it

[solar bramble]

with IC i could see PB proccing on rupture bleeds as a viable option for AoE dps. . . but it would need to be tuned so the damage is reasonable.

[hallow sonnet]

They did make PB deal less damage but proc more over time.
I wonder why they never made it 100% and AoE would be coating the floor in poison

[gaunt moat]

Back at the day, most did.
some were annoyed at the randomness of it causing large disparity between logs since it had a huge impact.

[keen spruce]

okay we run sim again

[solar bramble]

for raid i can see it being problematic ya. . . . for m+ i can see it being good

[keen spruce]

prayge for letting me get rid of this fire ring

and shadowflame wep enchant

[solar bramble]

if you lock it behind IC as a node to get that effect, chances are no ST raid build would use it

you'd need too many points to get there for it to be worth in ST. . . even in rng

[worn sorrel]

I guess SD is one of the reasons people are asking for rogue modifications?

[gaunt moat]

you can do it

[gusty mirage]

no, our tree is old

we have more 3 point nodes than any other class in the game

[solar bramble]

shadow dance? . . . SD itself is fine, the points before it aren't

[gusty mirage]

we have zero build diversity

[keen spruce]

assas tree locks you left,middle,right at the 5th row
we have 2 AoE capstones and are bad at AoE
one of those is a 45s CD that shadowpriest gets in their 3rd row as a 30s

[gusty mirage]

and we're horribly undertuned for a full dps class

esp compared to warlock and mage

[royal lantern]

did assa and sub ever change their class tree since df launch

[hallow sonnet]

Kind of interesting how different rogue trees were (all of them) to the other classes

[gusty mirage]

yes

when they moved CD up

😛

[solar bramble]

the 45 second cd one needs to be 30 and lower in the tree. . . . literally every other spec that comes to mind with DoT's has a way to AoE apply their primary dots

[hallow sonnet]

Like, we're also the only class who has a different gate position

[solar bramble]

on a 30s cd

and some of our capstones are behind 3 point nodes

[hallow sonnet]

There were a bit more oxi, but yeah

[keen spruce]

also the middle row to get to our only ST capstone option is a straight line for 4 talents

[hallow sonnet]

Was one earlier that gave us more things in the upper part of the tree

[keen spruce]

because this isn't a talent

smh

[gusty mirage]

yes it is

it's better in aoe than amp

[keen spruce]

[hallow sonnet]

Was the original

[gusty mirage]

don't hate the player hate the game @keen spruce

ah yes

our first iteration was even worse

I've blocked that out of my memory rosvall

ty

[hallow sonnet]

Yeah this was so horrible

[keen spruce]

jesus

cheat death locked behind MFD

[solar bramble]

needed a talent just to get feint . . . yikes

[keen spruce]

[gusty mirage]

assassination rogues forget that before kingsbane existed

[royal lantern]

they didnt even try to hide that it was 3 straight lines

[solar bramble]

and lok at that vigor placement

[gusty mirage]

we had tiny toxic blade as the left side capstone

like as much as we dog on the tree

[gaunt moat]

I had an argument with guild members, i'd like to hear your thoughts:
topic is the balancing between rogue specs.
They say sin's niche is ST, and so it shouldn't need to be good at AoE.
I said, alright, but sub is good at AoE, and also better at ST right now.
To that they've replied, that the only reason sub is better than Sin in ST, is because it's more popular and the best players play it.
maybe, but I think of those that do play sin, it's the best sin players as well, and that sub is just better in ST.

[gusty mirage]

it could've been so so so so much worse

but we got a bunch of changes

and then watched other classes get pretty much brand new trees

so people got angy

[solar bramble]

it's not because of the better players playing it

you can mention to said guildies. . . . that the better players tend to gravitate to the best overall performance. as they can play any variation of any build and just go with strongest. . . . less because of personal preferences (imo)

[gusty mirage]

like realistically, rogue is more than fine for prog

very good class to have

[hallow sonnet]

Probably has a contributing factor

[gusty mirage]

but on farm you'll get outshined

[royal lantern]

you cant tell me that the majority of subbrains actually enjoy DF sub in raids, its so misserable

[hallow sonnet]

But Assa is great on progress

[keen spruce]

give us more lines

[gusty mirage]

they did

[solar bramble]

sub in raid is pretty comfy as it stands

[gusty mirage]

@hallow sonnet do we have the old assa tree floating around anywhere?

[gaunt moat]

best i can do is 3-point nodes

[keen spruce]

look at all of these lines

[gusty mirage]

before kingsbane

[keen spruce]

SO MANY LINES

[gusty mirage]

people freaking out

look at this

lol

it literally could've been infinitely worse

[keen spruce]

it can always be worse

[worn sorrel]

Why is exsanguinate good now?

[keen spruce]

it was always good

[solar bramble]

idk which part of sub feels . . . bad to play. . . the rotten is kind of hit it seems. but the standard sub build is very comfortable 😦

[royal lantern]

allrighr, unpopular opinion incomming: SPEC trees are fine, but class trees are a horrible idea and need to be removed

[hallow sonnet]

Sub tree was kinda wild too.

[royal lantern]

dunk on me

[keen spruce]

just took some sciencing to re-prove it

[gusty mirage]

it was bad pre-dragon flight because it competed directly with better talents

[hallow sonnet]

It's literally just lines, but squiggly

[gusty mirage]

with the new trees you didn't have to make that hard trade off

pre-SL it competed with toxic blade

[hallow sonnet]

With some dead end nodes

[gusty mirage]

in SL it competed with alacrity

[keen spruce]

bruther i forgot tiny toxic was a fuckin capstone

[worn sorrel]

I was told exsanguinate needed a % damage mod to be good

[keen spruce]

[gusty mirage]

yeah

and no sbs

only sepsis

[gaunt moat]

is that atrophic poison locked behind 2 nodes?

[keen spruce]

that was the conventional assumption early last week

[gusty mirage]

[solar bramble]

just reduce ensanguinate to 2m to align properly lol

[keen spruce]

but more sim tuning has discovered otherwise

[vestal wren]

not much changed talent wise in it tho

[keen spruce]

fuu let us doom in peace

[gusty mirage]

hopefully the 10.1.5 rework will address the lack of build diversity for sin and sub

[vestal wren]

most of the subtlety tree changes was in connection or position

[gusty mirage]

because pre-rotten

you changed around 3 points for sub

[keen spruce]

that's what I want fuu

[gusty mirage]

and called it a day

[keen spruce]

i want lines

[hallow sonnet]

well at least there's some ability to move from one side to another

[solar bramble]

i . . . don't want them to touch sub tree. i like sub as it stands. . . little diversity sure but at least it's a solid spec atm. . . .

[gusty mirage]

yeah realz hooked it up with movement around the trees

[solar bramble]

and after i saw what they did to demo . . . . don't touch it

[worn sorrel]

Anyways, why is exsanguinate 3min cd? Could it be 1min cd without sin being broken?

[gusty mirage]

because it was a 45s cooldown at 100% speed up

[royal lantern]

wait, you never saw the OG tree?

[gusty mirage]

and it was as strong as dragon tempered blades

[gaunt moat]

it was 45c at start of expansion

[keen spruce]

1m means it's up for every deathmark

[royal lantern]

with venemous wounds at the bottom right

[gaunt moat]

no i returned 1 week after DF launch

[royal lantern]

[worn sorrel]

wait, does it last forever?

[solar bramble]

ensanguinate really has no reason to be a 3 minute cd

[keen spruce]

blame our TCs

we were gaming too hard at xpac launch

cuz they gave us banger builds

turns out we were just pretty okay

all along

[gusty mirage]

yeah the OG trees were bad

like

TTB capstone bad

[vestal wren]

i think it is always a bit hard to judge early on

[gusty mirage]

and no lateral movement at all

[vestal wren]

because tuning plays such a central role

[gaunt moat]

HUH

[hallow sonnet]

I do think that Realz did have a decently good idea with the "lines".
He envisioned them as packages, so it's not that you trade "one cd for another"
But more changing "one cd + a ton of base kit" for another.
So each alternative would feel very different to play.

However, so many of our talents are extremely uninteractive.
So this just doesn't feel like a totally different "sub-spec"
But rather just changing one cd for another. But that cd costs 12 talents

[gusty mirage]

bottom left

is tiny toxic blade

[gaunt moat]

howwwww

[keen spruce]

that OG tree was so cursed

[royal lantern]

tiny toxic blade was a capstone instead of kingsbane

venemous wounds was a end of tree talent on the bottom right

[gusty mirage]

everyone was gonna play outlaw for the party wide CDR

it was good times

[royal lantern]

oxi didnt even mention restless crew on outlaw

[keen spruce]

restless crew was gonna be nuts

if it went live

[gaunt moat]

yeah it was a "huh" of disbelief not of misunderstanding 😂

[royal lantern]

and guy telling everyone that its not great

[vestal wren]

ironically, rotten plays and feels a lot different to regular builds

[vestal wren]

so subtlety has now 2 valid builds

[gusty mirage]

[royal lantern]

and then straight up saying restless crew is good cus it means outlaw is the must Pick raid Spec

infiniteman Moment

[gusty mirage]

only took 8 months

[keen spruce]

alright i gotta go to bed. flying to vegas tomorrow for a bachelor party

i'm too old for these degenerate weekends

[gusty mirage]

watch kirby wipe to rashok with me

wtf man

[vestal wren]

i think restless crew is a great talent idea

[gaunt moat]

Look at me I'm the augmenter now?

[royal lantern]

no

🙂

[vestal wren]

the complain was always that its unique to one spec, but that we don't have it for all

[gaunt moat]

well they just gave it to augmenter

[gusty mirage]

wait until you hear sub's raid utility

move speed during shroud

[keen spruce]

remember when assas had that thing that reduced the CD of vendetta and no one used it cuz it desync'd everything

[royal lantern]

assa at atrophic

outlaw had crew

sub shroud ms Boost

[gusty mirage]

assassination got DR, outlaw got CDR for their party

[keen spruce]

i member

[gusty mirage]

sub got.... move speed

[royal lantern]

the budget version of roar/windrush

[gaunt moat]

how do you even shroud in raid. you shadowdance for shroud? o_O

[vestal wren]

to be fair, i think the sub tree was the most under developed

[gusty mirage]

with the caveat

that unusable in combat

imagine roar but worse in every situation ever

[royal lantern]

vanisg and dont take dmg ofc

[vestal wren]

and there was some effort put into it later

[keen spruce]

okay i actually go now bye bye o/

[shrewd night]

Noooooo

[keen spruce]

wait my sim finished

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3MJDLykzyRUTYpY59zWKYH

fuk

[vestal wren]

it is hard to ask for more, wow is kind of the game you need to have piece with what you get

[keen spruce]

still fire ring

[gusty mirage]

the fire ring is your master

embrace it

[gaunt moat]

bro it's 134dps. let it go.

[solar bramble]

439 . . . 119k. . . here i am at 426 but only sim at 85k with nearly full raid buffs 😦

[blazing jewel]

its placement on the tree is the biggest war crime

[gaunt moat]

wait i misread that

[gusty mirage]

same guy refuses to play exsang even though its 2% better

[keen spruce]

wait

13 dps

[gusty mirage]

so not 13 dps

because p sure margin of error is like 50-60dps

[keen spruce]

maybe sometimes 13dps

[gusty mirage]

[gaunt moat]

I dunno, for me removing duirna's chosen was a 600dps increase

[keen spruce]

and when i put a socky on it

[gusty mirage]

I need to wait for next spark

to craft bracers

[shrewd night]

Ye put it in your mouth duckboi

[gusty mirage]

and get a replacement ring

fuu I'm sorry to inform you

but I refuse to play rotten

so sub is dead to me

[vestal wren]

wait

[gusty mirage]

I know what you might be thinking, just play the old build

but I can't ignore 3-4k dps

[vestal wren]

why do you think it is the default ?

[gusty mirage]

that'd just be unethical of me

it was simming 1500 dps higher than the standard build with the old APL

[vestal wren]

rotten is not stable enough to be played on progression, so its more of a "fun extra" thing

[gusty mirage]

[keen spruce]

isn't rotten just a farm, short fight banger build

i haven't been in sub since they first started bringin it up

[gusty mirage]

idk it was 1500 with my 6min sim

[vestal wren]

rotten is quite good in hc/normal

bosses already melt

[vestal wren]

oh interessting

[gusty mirage]

lemme find it

talk me off the ledge man

I'm actually really liking flag sub

😦

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/43f7bYbj62aTE6REBm1awZ

that was without the updated APL too

kieron simmed it with your custom APL and uh:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hKY3FKAgbpCgfCcAmhoG49

[grim jay]

I like the naming

[gusty mirage]

I knew someone would catch that

[royal lantern]

what enchant is plainsrunner breze

never saw that one

[vestal wren]

well one thing to keep in mind

[gusty mirage]

movespeed

[vestal wren]

the custom apl is only for rotten

so it will make the standard build sim noticable lower

i will come back to fix that hopefully today or tomorrow

[grim jay]

Speed on boots

[gusty mirage]

yeah it was like 1.2kish loss for standard build I think

[grim jay]

Duh

[gusty mirage]

but still

[vestal wren]

but 116 -> 120k

[gusty mirage]

pls cook something to make it go away

I beg of you

I can stomach 2k

I can't stomach 4k

[vestal wren]

if you have ideas, any time

[grim jay]

I didnt sim it thus far. Dont wanna break my enthusiasm of simming over 121k by simming higher with rotten

[gusty mirage]

can we add a custom apl for me being stupid

[vestal wren]

but i can't think of a big surface for improvements like with rotten

[gusty mirage]

because I barely played the proper rotation with the standard build

this rotten thing is gonna break me mentally

[vestal wren]

for what its worth, your damage can fall off a cliff with rotten

if you get mechanics at the wrong time

[grim jay]

Its not that bad in itself actually

[vestal wren]

also on the bright side

its 72 apm

[gusty mirage]

you ever shadowstrike every single dance playing TFD?

because I did for like 20 minutes

[vestal wren]

still not 78 like outlaw

[gusty mirage]

before I worked that out of my brain

[vestal wren]

i still vanish-gloomblade

way too much

[gusty mirage]

just so many old habits to kill

[vestal wren]

it is because of a bug

[gusty mirage]

I still had my ss/backstab macro

[vestal wren]

basically, with rotten you vanish outside of dance again

[gusty mirage]

from 15 years ago

lmao

[vestal wren]

and the bar switching issue

[gusty mirage]

maybe I'll give rotten a shot on farm

[vestal wren]

sends gloomblade if you are too fast

[gusty mirage]

or heroic run

maybe it works with my brain and I'm just scared

[earnest remnant]

Its not fun

[solar bramble]

so you're using vanish > shadowstrike but sometimes it uses gloomblade?

[gusty mirage]

stealthi hold me and tell me it'll be okay

[grim jay]

Probably

[solar bramble]

can you castsequence it? vanish > shadowstrike?

it would be very specific to that build though

[earnest remnant]

I Can legit hop on disc and tell you exactly how to play it. Its very easy

[gusty mirage]

does this include a hug?

[vestal wren]

moment, ill show you the bug report

[earnest remnant]

Maybe. Depends on mood still havent slept yet

[gusty mirage]

omg twins

I've been awake for 21 hours

[solar bramble]

your stealth bar isn't transitioning fast enough to shadowstrike is what i'm getting out of it.

[vestal wren]

https://github.com/SimCMinMax/WoW-BugTracker/issues/879

[earnest remnant]

Nelth prog in 10 hours

[vestal wren]

it is basically this bug, it applies to vanish/dance

[gusty mirage]

[earnest remnant]

What could go wrong

[solar bramble]

can you castsequence it then?

[gusty mirage]

it's funny that bug is still in the game

[vestal wren]

nothing to see here

[gusty mirage]

it trips me up every time I reinstall elvui and it re-enables stealth bars for me

[uncut dragon]

wait are people using shadow dance in assassination or are we OT?

[grim jay]

I did get immersed in simming with new gear and forgot to put on enchant on chest and legs for 2 weeks. All those 99s that maybe couldve been 100s

[solar bramble]

just for that one situation

[gusty mirage]

you got those 100s in my heart

[gusty mirage]

we're talking about sub cuz I brought it up

I'm a bad mod

ban me tbh

[solar bramble]

on sub i tend to save vanish for fight mechanics that make me disengage. . . and i'll vanish shadowstrike back to the boss

[uncut dragon]

cool cool just dove in and was getting confused

[gusty mirage]

yeah don't worry

[uncut dragon]

(I use sub in M+)

[gusty mirage]

find weakness makes it so we'll never play dance ever

[vestal wren]

the irony is

[keen spruce]

they're talkin about sub

[vestal wren]

that even with 50% on ns

[gusty mirage]

BRO GO TO SLEEP YOU HAVE A FLIGHT

[keen spruce]

MUH SIMS

YALL STARTED TALKIN ABOUT SUB

[vestal wren]

it was still not a good talent

[keen spruce]

AND I HAD TO CRUNCH THE NUMBERS

[vestal wren]

can ask realz to bring 50% NS back

maybe you can make it work with sepsis

👀

[keen spruce]

turns out they're dogshit cuz i don't have sub trinkets and some haste gems

[grim jay]

Funny enough, my guild is really strict since its a progress guild but I guess they never doubted me enough to check

[gusty mirage]

It happens

[grim jay]

https://tenor.com/view/hug-love-hi-bye-cat-gif-14774418

[gusty mirage]

Boss died that’s all that matters

[solar bramble]

still got 99's without enchants. . . . when ya get a 99 they don't check (i'd assume)

whatever you did . . . . it worked lol

[uncut dragon]

Hey, on assassination, when we're doing our burst is it just vanish and repeat the opener essentially?

[solar bramble]

if you have sepsis then it won't be till 6 minutes . . . . since you wont have sepsis

[keen spruce]

see people have to add "on assassination" in the assas channel now cuz our mods hyjacked it for sub talk smh

[solar bramble]

the way i'm reading it . . . . it's just for the enhanced garrote going into deathmark

[keen spruce]

okay i slep

[uncut dragon]

I'm trying to be inclusive

[solar bramble]

#makesingreatagain lol

[uncut dragon]

6 minutes I am confused

[solar bramble]

2m cd for vanish/deathmark . . . 1.5m for sepsis. . . if sepsis is in the opener, those 2 wont' realign again till 6m

so it's not really a new opener till 6. . .

[uncut dragon]

ah. I was holding sepsis for 30 sec to line it up w/ deathmark

[solar bramble]

not supposed to by the looks of it. you use sepsis at 1.5m for the enhanced garrotes, pandemic it on the 2nd part to keep enhanced garrotes. one normal garrote refresh before deathmark, is what it looks like

the one thing that wasnt' clear in the sin-faq was whether or not you want to vanish > garrote before deathmark. . . or after deathmark. . . it looked to be after if no drifting

[uncut dragon]

probably a better use. Just hate fragmenting all the cooldowns scattered about.

[solar bramble]

same. . . but it is what it is.

idk what the damage difference is. . if it's minor enough maybe you can accept the damage loss and pair cd's

that's more a whyispyr question though

on the upside. . . if you separate your cd's you have more consistent damage throughout.

you can probably just hold sepsis for a full re-open at 2m (without ensanguinate. . . which also wont' realign till 6m unless you hold for the 4m). . . . i just don't know what the actual damage loss is for doing that

i'd assume it's minor

and if that's the case you'd probably use vanish at a different time to not overstack the stealth garrotes

just my assumption

[sharp viper]

Do Blindside ambushes consume the Sepsis buff?

[royal lantern]

nope

[sharp viper]

Sweet

[clever sapphire]

not anymore atleast

[gaunt moat]

Was fixed pretty quick tbh.

[copper musk]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[visual hemlock]

i use beacon and iridous fragment as trinkets, i still want to use fragment in opener and beacon asap after?

[sour citrus]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[brazen lagoon]

Is someone so dedicated to assa and pushes and grind M+ withiut switching sub?

I want to know how you deal to reach some good overalls, i think its all about giving everything in some packs and giving up some

[blazing jewel]

Zerocool

He streams too

[gaunt moat]

Basically, what you want, are big pulls.

[limpid lava]

zerocool is playing Assa

[brazen lagoon]

But when i switch to Sub i can get 100k overall without managing timers and smashing a well known rotation

[gaunt moat]

Sin suffers a lot in small pulls.

[brazen lagoon]

Yeah we do, if the tank goes shy i cant be efficient

[gaunt moat]

if you get pulls of 5-8+ enemies, you will do damage.

[brazen lagoon]

I heard about that Guy, ill check him after work

[gaunt moat]

otherwise you will hope to not get called out for lacking dps.

on smaller pulls you can try to focus on utlity such as stuns and kicks

[brazen lagoon]

Thanks guys, lets grind again

[raven merlin]

sin sucks in spiteful weeks

[jaunty phoenix]

Uhm are u sure? You can funnel a lot in spiteful weeks

[brazen lagoon]

Well not sure too

Put dots, avoid ghosts and have fun

[blazing jewel]

Why specifically spiteful weeks

[raven merlin]

u cant enter stealth, its ultra tilting

[storm forum]

The key to spiteful is to be a nelf so you can rotate vanish and shadowmeld between chain pulls

[brazen lagoon]

Its à rogue problèm

Not a spec

[storm forum]

Assa loses the most I think cause out of stealth our IC DoTs do like 50% less damage

[gusty mirage]

Assassination loses the least from not having restealths lol

[storm forum]

What does outlaw even get from restealth?

[gusty mirage]

Ambush

[storm forum]

1 ambush?

[grim jay]

That will start a discussion

[blazing jewel]

Sub

[gusty mirage]

It’s been looked at for years now

What discussion will it start

[blazing jewel]

It’s been explained so many times in here that sin doesn’t need them

[gusty mirage]

Something that’s been looked at and proven wrong the last 5 years?

[grim jay]

The discussion that has been had thousands of times and there still are people that think not restealthing is the worst shit since spongebob

[gusty mirage]

Yeah dunno

I think people forget vanish exists

And that they can slap ruptures on spitefuls to keep energy rolling into the next pack

[brazen lagoon]

We just lose fancy stealth and Improved Garrote

If i didnt miss something

[rocky ruin]

improved garrote ^^

[brazen lagoon]

Yay True ! Always put some dots for energy

[brazen lagoon]

?

[spice surge]

Restealths are good, but chain pulling with ruptures rolling on targets already is better

[rocky ruin]

if you have a decent tank who chain pulled in m+ you can thank him

[brazen lagoon]

Whats funny with improved garrote?

You dont say that ?

Dont get it

Well nvm

Guess we'll never know what you wanted to say x)

[normal mist]

He just made you have a monologue for a bit

Nothing new in this channel

[brazen lagoon]

Unfortunately

Replying with a random answer and disappearing... dont understand how brain cells work for some

[normal mist]

[storm belfry]

[wicked valve]

Most tanks who aren't used to playing with rogues or just aren't very good think chain pulling means waiting till there is 1 mob alive and is at 10% health before pulling the next pack. Meaning we don't get restealth or the benefit from a pack of low health mobs with our dots rolling.

[eager junco]

do we always send env at 5 CP ? or is there any reason to go up to 6 during deathmark or seomthing?

[raven knoll]

Most tanks. Hmm I've not seen a tank that chains pulls.

[royal lantern]

finisher is Always max -1 for all specs for every finisher no matter the situation

@eager junco

simply cus of energy cost for generating cp

[eager junco]

following the discussion of this morning, I wasn't sure i understood correctly...
after Sepsis runs out, can you cast "normal" spells without consuming the "stealth" proc ?

so in a sense only use muti/env and then refresh the stealthed garotte only at the end of the post-Sepsis buff ?

[royal lantern]

yes

you always sepsis>garrote, and when 2nd sepsis buffs is about to end garrote again

[eager junco]

that might explain some things....

I have the same key for Muti/Ambush just with a stealth mod...

so i'll have to change that

[royal lantern]

make different keys

E is ambush (and shadowstrike for sub) for all 3specs for me

[sick aspen]

weakness/numbing stack yeah?

[royal lantern]

yes

but warlocks would rather cut their hands off then pressing weakness

[remote oak]

True!

[bleak ledge]

Are the firelands trinkets still worth it after the slight nerfs? Been trying to farm out dice in freeholds but guild is gonna run a time walking

[pseudo hamlet]

Don't think that any of the TW trinkets beat Irideus Fragment + Dice

[raven knoll]

Matrix can beat Dice IMO. It was such a good trinket.

[strange python]

Nope. Shadow dance sub finishes at 5.

[royal lantern]

just another reminder that DF sub is a total abomination that needs to be put down ASAP

mercy kill at this point

[eager junco]

wait, really ? i usuall just spam to 6-7 for SecTec

[strange python]

If you shadowstrike and hit 5 and have already used gloomblade once in dance you just send evis.

Tbh idk if that changes with rotten, but I'd imagine not.

[eager junco]

i meant 6-7 CPs before each finisher, I usuall only go up to 5 stacks of the dance dmg buff thingy

[strange python]

Yeah you don't cast another builder if you landed on 5 CP.

[eager junco]

oki

[strange python]

The only time you might is if you hadn't used gloomblade yet and it'd give you a stack of DM

[cunning nest]

Our 2-set is working on dm-rupture, too? Someone ever checked?

[limber lion]

Yes

Deathmark just copies whatever rupture/garrote is applied

That's why Shrouded and Exsang and whatnot work

[winter gale]

If I crafted Slimy boots, do I now go for Thorn with next craft or I go for the Patch and then 3rd craft to be Thorn?

[limber lion]

Just get patch first

Then change

[winter gale]

Ok

Will do, will do!

[strange python]

At this rate we'll find something wrong with thorn too

[winter gale]

So, 3 more weeks 😂

[strange python]

Also I think slimy is still better for outlaw and sub

[pseudo hamlet]

Not gonna waste >30k gold just for ~400dps more(boots). Slimy aren't that bad tbh.

[storm belfry]

I mean if the thorn boots are simming w 0 heal procs then I don’t believe it’s better

[limber lion]

We already did

[gaunt moat]

Unless I see people with thorn boots parsing way higher, I couldn't give less of a fuck.
Sin isn't complete garbo right now so it's fine.
(We're just in the shadow of subtlety)

[thorn fjord]

@gaunt moat Samesies

[misty holly]

Do we know if Lariat will be worth using again once we max out gem slots? Or is slimy/toxic with patch better still?

[lavish wagon]

Guys there is a better moment to use the beacon trinket during the rotation or use it at cd?

[undone eagle]

is it hard to get in groups in high keys for u guys aswell? feels like this week affix most ppl wanna avoid rogues zz

[misty holly]

I would think rogues are good with gouge and kidney

But I havent done a dungeon yet this week.

[undone eagle]

only spiteful is kinda annoying to make u reset ur stealth opener :p maybe thats why

[misty holly]

Maybe everyone wants spammable permanent CC like sheep and scare beast

[undone eagle]

luckily im NE so i can just use racial

yea true

blind 2min cd sadge

[pseudo hamlet]

Yeah

Anyway, it's you who made that Sepsis WA?

[gaunt moat]

Yeah

[pseudo hamlet]

You made my life much easier

[gaunt moat]

hah, glad to hear you found it useful 😃

I actually have and Idea for an improvent for it.
But I'll working on it a bit later

[coral jasper]

Guys, are this talents bad? I dont see almost anyone using them like this but i like them a loooot. Feels rly nice duno why xD

[gaunt moat]

I think that maybe it's worth differantiating between whebn sepsis is also applied as a debuff to know when to shiv.

[gaunt moat]

Sim yourself with that build.
And sim yourself with the recommended built.
And you will get your answer

[gusty mirage]

you're dropping bloody mess for improved poisons

that's why no one is using it

you're actively doing less damage and making your tier set do less damage

[coral jasper]

Okayy oxi i see ur point now

Got it

Ty for answer guys ^^

[gusty mirage]

you could make an argument for it if the tier set didn't buff rupture

but tier set kinda kills that idea right away

[coral jasper]

Yeah,yeah i got it

Im just gonna drop improved poisons and fatal concociton for bloody mess and shrouded suffocation

And then it should be fine i gues

[eternal vortex]

hey, does anyone know if there is an assa POV for assault+chamber? i couldnt find any on yt :v

[gaunt moat]

Whispyr streamed it afaik.
Maybe you can see his VoD

[eternal vortex]

nice, thanks

[royal lantern]

tbf, assault for assa is probs not really special

"ST the big guy and put some bleeds on the rest"

[gaunt moat]

*any class

Glorified trash pack

[eternal vortex]

ye well might just go as sub not sure yet

[spice spire]

We didn’t lust on pull last night so it went to trash phase

[gaunt moat]

But also no.
You take carnage for that fight, vanish and bleed everything.

[spice spire]

Then a healer started to throw rocks

[royal lantern]

or

you respec sub and storm->powder for more dps

[gaunt moat]

Unitonically, the trash leading to the fight is harder than the fight.

[gaunt moat]

Herasy.

[royal lantern]

mate, even i did it cus its so stupid braindead

sub aoe is the BM hunter of aoe gameplay

[gusty mirage]

I didn't know I was a phase on assault

[spice spire]

Shut up oxi, I’ll kiss you on the mouth

[gaunt moat]

I'm not gonna learn sub just for a trivial fight hah.

[royal lantern]

can you press 2 buttons in after eachother?

[gaunt moat]

Yes, but then you have dance, symbols etc. Etc.
It's not just 2 buttons

[royal lantern]

if the answer is yes, congratz, you can now pull 110k+ as sub in m+

[gaunt moat]

That's like saying sin is only 2 buttons

Cause FoK CT

[royal lantern]

you litearlly just slam symbols on CD everytime its up and dance is just dance->storm->powder->storm->sectech, the end

[gaunt moat]

I already count 5 buttons

[gusty mirage]

are you counting the times you get 1cp from fok cause you got no crits?

[gaunt moat]

My fingers hurt from FoK spam

But I got neck from assault yesterday
So no more m+ farming thank god.
Got everything i need.

[royal lantern]

ye im fully 441 decked out aswell

except rings

[gusty mirage]

I've been considering binding fok to scroll wheel

[gaunt moat]

I got it on the F key.
Not great for finger health

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/mx-mouse-logitech-logitech-mouse-spinning-spinning-wheel-gif-24743270

[gaunt moat]

This gives me anxiety when the game lags my input and I FoK with full CPs

Muh energy

[split cipher]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[limber lion]

Yeh that's why I really like Luxthos'. His one has the perfect weak auras for everything. Perfect Sepsis tracker, perfect bleed trackers and so on

I just hate the layout and the resource bars

So I just snatch the weak auras themselves and slap them in my package

[gaunt moat]

I use his WAs but they don't have that functionality unless i missed it

[limber lion]

They do

You Sepsis, it turns blue and begins a countdown

You garrote, it turns grey meaning you used the proc. Countdown is still there

[gaunt moat]

Is this a recent update?

[limber lion]

Then after Sepsis is done, it turns blue again with a countdown for the garrote

Idk but that's how it works

The single aura has everything from sepsis tracking to the emp garrote tracking

[gaunt moat]

Yeah the emp garrote for sepsis was updated recently after I asked him to add my fix.

I need to look over his sepsis WA though, i never noticed it did that

[sturdy valve]

wht are people simming at this point ?

st

[gaunt moat]

120k for me

[thorn fjord]

118k in sub 117 in sin

[tacit otter]

~ 119k only missing chest

[thorn fjord]

Missing second embellishment

[sturdy valve]

yikers. simming 114 at 439 ilvl atm... trinkets are hot doodo tho

[gaunt moat]

Missing tier bonus?

[sturdy valve]

nah but i do have 424 hand tier

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/m9re6XGUXGtAMHT45tCzeo

[limber lion]

96k

:)

[violet jackal]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[velvet wraith]

QQ guys, when do we use beacon in the exang+sepsis opener?

[royal lantern]

you use beacon after DM is over

its not boosted by anything, and when you have bomb dispenser, it will put beacon on the double use trinket cd anyway

[velvet wraith]

I don't have double on use atm

But I think sending it after DM makes a lot of sense

[white orchid]

that trinket is so busted lol does like 10% of your damage

[thorn fjord]

I love using it in keys and seeing it chunk off like 5-7% of the bosses life lol

[storm belfry]

I think I sim for 113k I’m weak

Terrible trinkets on my end

[thorn fjord]

Considering my gear i feel like i should be a bit higher

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3nHVDWQckdRUHkkqRdWCQL

[hollow vault]

does cowl really sim higher than toxic patch for you

[strange python]

Are you sure you don't beacon first and hold bomb till after?

[thorn fjord]

it doesnt i cant make it till next week

[thorn fjord]

You can get atleast one bomb cast during opener into DM and all that before you hit beacon

[dark token]

you beacon 2nd for 2 reasons

1. bomb dispenser stacks 3 charges and this lets it recharge one while you use beacon if you use a charge on pull
2. using beacon after dance lets you get symbols of death on it which gives 10% crit

[strange python]

Okay. So opposite of sub. Good to know

[royal lantern]

i have bomb dispenser macro to stealth garrote and shiv

and get 2 bombs out before DM ends

and then can do beacon like 4-5 sec after DM is over

[thorn fjord]

Mutilate bomb boiz

I dont give a FUCK

[royal lantern]

i just made garrote/stealth garrote and shiv

[hollow vault]

oh gg no old sparks?

[thorn fjord]

Nope

[hollow vault]

jelly of your trinks

[vapid sierra]

Should I be hitting higher than my simmed st dps

Assuming the same buffs and boss uptime

[hollow vault]

surely we'll get a m bomb dispenser on our zskarn kill tn haha...

[dark token]

the hunter got the mythic dispenser

💀

[thorn fjord]

SURELY

GL

[gusty mirage]

they're playing more than a warrior for mythic zskarn?

[hollow vault]

lmfao ikr

[royal lantern]

no

you will never really hit your sim dps in normal circumstances

unless you hit the RNG crit jackpot and get litearlly 0 mechanics

[hollow vault]

you def can? just variance with crits/sophic/cape/etc

[strange python]

I beat my sim for the entirety of rashok this tier and terros last tier. Variance means you'll beat your sim semi regularly. You'll also lose to it semi regularly even with good play.

[white orchid]

still rocking with mythic kurog trinket as my second. Cant get a trinket to save my life from anything lol. even 36 or so FH and no dice

[royal lantern]

well, yes no

[bleak ledge]

in the same boat but heroic kUrog trinket

[royal lantern]

on dmg dummy? yeha sometimes sure?

but like, on a real fight you wont really hit it under normal situations simply cus you wont have 100% uptime

[bleak ledge]

shouldve just taken the ominous chromatic 1st vault, wouldve gotten 4pc anyhow

[hollow vault]

rashok/magmorax/pre-cheese zskarn all pretty chill to have 100% uptime

on dummy unless you have a raid group buffing you you're not gonna hit sim dps

[strange python]

Plenty of fights with either very high uptime or adds this tier.

[royal lantern]

then the next problem: you dont play like a sim bot

idk about you, but mid pull brainfarts happens for me quiet often

[scenic sapphire]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[gusty mirage]

I play like half of that sentence

[royal lantern]

i have a unhealthy amount of 2nd/3rd DM casts where im like

garrote, rupture, dm FUCKFORGOTVANISH

[thorn fjord]

Git Gud

[runic hinge]

Twice last week I tried to hold sepsis garrote until the very last second. Globaled myself and overwrote my imp garrotte with a regular. I’m bad at this game.

[thorn fjord]

Just exsang your DM like a true Chad

[limber lion]

Idk what it is, but I don't really get mid-pull brainfarts at all in-game, but whenever I perform music I get those all the time. Some kind of selective brainfarterino

Very annoying to butcher a piece because of a bad brainfart

[thorn fjord]

Music hinders your concentration.... I did a science project on that 😛

[limber lion]

I never understood people who put "study music to listen to for 10 hours while studying fireplace sounds and rain sounds to soothe your nerves so you can study better for 10 hours relaxing asmr music" on while studying

[sturdy valve]

can you take 1 less point in dashing to get 3 into zoldyck for execute figths ? or not worth?

[limber lion]

Which ones are execute fights?

[strange python]

Rashok arguably

[limber lion]

Also do you realize that dashing is required for DTB?

And you play DTB in all content everywhere always?

[sturdy valve]

just noticed haha

[hollow vault]

if you really want the exe for rashok you could drop the ss point

[sturdy valve]

y i was thinking for rashok... just couldnt find a way so i asked. asking if i could take 1 less in dashing was omega dumb tho haha

[hollow vault]

whispyr did

[sturdy valve]

also dropping SS feels like a federal crime

[hollow vault]

sec i'll grab log

[sturdy valve]

thnx

[hollow vault]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1fM3AhdncLPHGvjg#fight=2&type=summary&source=3

yeah losing it def feels weird

[balmy condor]

But you don’t vanish at the start of dm’s

[strange python]

When the fuck do you vanish

Wouldn't it be vanishgar, DM, exsang?

Unless you're holding sepsis?

[balmy condor]

Sepsis covers the front half of 2min dm, you vanish when that’s in pandemic

[strange python]

Isn't sepsis 1:30??

[balmy condor]

Yes

[strange python]

What am I missing here

[balmy condor]

Idk

[strange python]

Sepsis 1:30, garrote 6seconds later, still falls off as DM goes up?

[balmy condor]

Okay

And now the second garrote

[strange python]

What second garrote

[balmy condor]

From sepsis?

Bro what

[strange python]

Sepsis gives more than one stealth cast?

[balmy condor]

💀

[strange python]

I played sepsis for one day on sepulcher ptr

[balmy condor]

You’re off the goop

[misty holly]

I can't believe you guys have abandoned SBS so casually. Frankly, I am disappointed in all of you right now.

[strange python]

I'm in Texas give me a break

Wtf does sepsis do

How do you get two casts

[balmy condor]

It gives a stealth at the end, which was how sepulcher worked

[strange python]

How long does it last????

[balmy condor]

And also at the start, which is what happened at the start of dragonflight

[strange python]

Isn't sepsis like 6 seconds?m

Or was that just sepulcher vendetta speed up bullshit?

[balmy condor]

So you sepsis -> garrote, sepsis is 10 seconds

[subtle tundra]

youre trolling

[balmy condor]

So you wait till it finishes

Then you get another 10 seconds for the buff

And you garrote at the end

[strange python]

How long is pandemic garrote again?

[balmy condor]

23

[strange python]

Oh

Wait

[balmy condor]

Waiting

[strange python]

So you sepsis at 130, refresh garrote at 140 when sepsis falls

[balmy condor]

1:50

[strange python]

Why 1:50? Sepsis is 10 seconds?

[subtle tundra]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[balmy condor]

Sepsis is 10 seconds and the buff is 10 seconds

[strange python]

Texas has rotten my brain

[subtle tundra]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[balmy condor]

That’s 20 seconds

[strange python]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[subtle tundra]

average american brain

[strange python]

so you just send muts for 8 seconds

[balmy condor]

Yes

[strange python]

I didn't know the stealth buff was more than just one cast

[balmy condor]

Well you can blindside too

[subtle tundra]

first boss i prog this tier and its neltharion

[strange python]

I spend four days in Texas and my brain has rotted.

[subtle tundra]

so boring

fucking WA boss

[balmy condor]

But it’s always sepsis -> garrote to empower, like a vanish

Wait until sepsis finishes for the second ability, that’s a buff that lasts 10 seconds, you hold it as long as possible, garrote

Well

“As long as possible”

Pandemic is obviously fine

[strange python]

Yeah my next question was - the cast at 1:30 surely doesn't get max pandemic at 1:50

[subtle tundra]

yes vanish

at 2 min!

[balmy condor]

What

Varas shut up lmao

[subtle tundra]

the 2 min DM

[strange python]

No whisp said second vanish is later.

[balmy condor]

Oh my god

Okay

[strange python]

Partway through that dm

No I get it now.

[balmy condor]

Sepsis 1:35ish

You garrote

That goes until 1:58

[strange python]

Sepsis garrote, pandemic that garrote, send DM, vanish pandemic extend again

[balmy condor]

At 1:45 you get the second garrote

[royal lantern]

silence, im still learning shitsis

[strange python]

Ye ye I get it

[royal lantern]

[subtle tundra]

you literally have a whole 2k word post about this

[balmy condor]

Yeah and you don’t fucking get it

So shut it

[subtle tundra]

???

[strange python]

[subtle tundra]

what makes you think

i dont

i said vanish the 2min dm

[strange python]

You said vanish at 2

You vanish at like 2:10

[subtle tundra]

fucking hell i have to spell you

every bit

[strange python]

Bro you used the wrong words and now you're mad at me for reading them how you wrote them? Ain't no way

[balmy condor]

Garrote has 13 seconds left, still 1:58, so you can pandemic at 1:53 at the end of the buff, that goes another 23 seconds, which is 2:16, Deathmark comes up at 2:05 ish, you vanish at 2:11 to pandemic

GG

[balmy condor]

Nahhhhh

You don’t get to say the most vague shit imaginable

[strange python]

Okay but what if I panic and press vanish at 2 and forget to garrote

[balmy condor]

And then get upset when people get confused

[strange python]

And then exsang my dm

[balmy condor]

Delete characters

[strange python]

It's okay. We took some detours but we got there.

Now get me out of Texas

It's infecting my brain

[vestal wren]

[drowsy parcel]

whens the assassination rework

i cant take this shit any longer

[gusty mirage]

soon ™️

[strange python]

13.0

[gusty mirage]

oh wait

you said rework

[strange python]

Realz deleted all the work he was doing, shat on the desk, burned the building down, and quit

So they have to start over

[drowsy parcel]

he jumped ship?

[strange python]

According to ten variations of RH rumors

No. I'm memeing because I'm bored

He left class discords and people think it means he quit blizz.

[subtle tundra]

sorry

mb

🙂

[strange python]

Never accept fault. Double down.

Everyone else is wrong.

[subtle tundra]

was gonna flame y'all

but im playing neltharion and i cant think properly

[strange python]

Mythic?

[subtle tundra]

yea

[royal lantern]

yes

[strange python]

I want my vacation to end but I also don't wanna do nelth

[subtle tundra]

its the first boss i prog

this tier

im 2/9

[strange python]

Rip

Rashok was fun.

Honestly I liked experiments too

[subtle tundra]

idk havent seen them

[strange python]

Rashok is like rygelon sorta.

Just gogogo

[subtle tundra]

also playing sub in raid

🛏️

[strange python]

Rotten or normal

[subtle tundra]

normal

idk what rotten is

[strange python]

New build. More chaotic

Normal build is sleeper

[subtle tundra]

i doubt chaotic would be good for prog

when we want to kill the adds and things

but i'd rather play assa!

[strange python]

Just play outlaw and kill your friends with BF

[keen spruce]

Experiments is cringe

Slg spell queueing,

Sometimes last guy deep breaths you instantly, some times he stands around for 30s holdin his dragon balls

Sometimes 2nd guy puts bomb debugs out right away, sometimes later, so you end up with extra bomb stacks if you phase the first guy too fast/slow

wACK

[strange python]

Experiments is fine because it's early enough that bad queueing is easy

But we also only spent like 30 mins on that boss

[keen spruce]

It being easy to handle doesn’t excuse it from dogshit design

[strange python]

Meh. I just send damage. I like sending damage

[slate scarab]

So the garrote I get from Sepsis doesn't give bonus combo points like my regular stealthed garrote. Is that expected, or is it a bug? Does it still do the extra from stealth damage at least? Or am I just doing something wrong...

[balmy condor]

that's expected

you get the stealth effects of improved garrote, not shrouded

[vestal wren]

subtlety also plays sepsis now

so we only need to find a way to make outlaw play it too

[slate scarab]

Cool, thanks for the answer. I was worried I was doing it wrong somehow.

[marble hemlock]

can we find a way to make none of the specs play it instead?

[vestal wren]

probably will get back to that next patch (tier patch)

[drowsy parcel]

delet sepsis

bring back kevin

i miss kevin.

[strange python]

Pray our rework isn't pushed to ptr one week before launch and is more involved than "crimson tempest nerfed by 5% to disincentive single target utilization next patch"

[thin gate]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[oak sky]

We should do a magic trick on sepsis

[clever sapphire]

no we must make all the specs play it even in M+

[turbid heath]

!whispyr

[turbid heath]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[thick sail]

If I have the Master Assassin talent, and I also talented into Shadow Dance, does Dance proc MA, giving the bonus critical for 3 seconds?

Likewise, if I have Shadow Dance, and I'm talented into Improved Garrote, does that empower the Garrote if I apply it within the SD window?

I am 99% sure that when I use Garrote from Shadow Dance, it DOES proc Shrouded Suffocation, giving me extra combo points.

[limber lion]

Both are correct

[thick sail]

And all the talents I mentioned are worded the same way, as "from stealth," which seems to indicate "from stealth" includes Dance

[limber lion]

However all the precursor talents to get to Dance are just so terrible it's not worth it

[thick sail]

That makes me sad, but it makes sense. I enjoy the synergy with Blindside applying Find Weakness, but yeah, feels bad

[limber lion]

Too bad Find Weakness does next to nothing for us

[royal lantern]

melee dmg

[vestal wren]

ma is active during the entire duration of dance

[royal lantern]

[thick sail]

I've been running Dance + MA + Iron Wire in M+, it feels real good to be able to silence one mob, CS another in situations where a pull goes bad, but I'm also playing with RL friends who are pretty bad

I've been wondering how big a damage loss taking Shrouded Suffocation over Arterial Precision is when paired with DTB.

I really enjoy AP, but having Dance without Shrouded Suffocation in M+ feels pretty bad, yet talenting down to Indiscriminate Carnage and dropping Dashing Scoundrel feels awful on boss fights because my energy regeneration is so bad

Maybe my haste is too low

[limber lion]

You should be playing DTB + IC anyways

AP is not that great

You can still do your dance shenanigans if you want, but just run dtb + ic

[oak stag]

how good is sark cloak for rogue? i got the choice of that or 2set atm, but i'm thinking to just pick cloak since i'm more likely to get 4set from drops than the cloak again

2set is obv better right now, but i'm thinking long term

[turbid heath]

fuck it

going sub

sin aint it for me anymore 😦

[subtle tundra]

maybe but assa dmg is already low

so playing suboptimal shit is even worse

[limber lion]

Yeh just get cloak

[runic hinge]

Sub is just so boring tho

[turbid heath]

hmmm, Outlaw? 😛

[thick sail]

@limber lion that's a good idea, I didn't think of abandoning the left side of the tree. I just will really miss Blindside 😩

[balmy condor]

you're been running what the fuck now

C H E A P S H O T?

[thick sail]

Yeah, like, to interrupt the occasional cast

I mean when you're playing with people who aren't sweaty and refuse to interrupt casts, you improvise lmao

[oak stag]

but garrote interrupts when cast from stealth doesn't it?

[balmy condor]

this is why sin is always the bottom of the tier lists

[thick sail]

Considering I don't raid and the highest we've done this season is a +10, I... don't think that's the reason

But like, just yesterday, my healer had 5 of those poisonous frogs chasing him, and he was at 10% hp, frantically running away. Are you gonna sit here and tell me I was objectively incorrect to Dance and Cheap Shot the frogs?

[royal lantern]

uhm honey, its B tier and above sub

[clever sapphire]

on which cursed tierlist did you see that?

and was it for hitting the target dummy?

[clever sapphire]

tbh just do whatever is fun for you, sure it looks hella cursed to even see you type these things, but as long as nobody in your group complains and you have fun? why not

[thick sail]

It seemed right at the time to disable the poisonous frogs that were putting stacks of poison on my 90% dead healer, but idk maybe that was the wrong play? Lol

[runic hinge]

Lol. I’m reading like cheap shot is highlighted in my spell book because it’s not even on my bar 😂

[clever sapphire]

oh it was probably the correct play if your heal survived thatway, and it was probably a good feeling moment for you to save him

[clever sapphire]

yaaaap

same

[thick sail]

It felt super good, we finished it with 3 of us alive

But yeah, I certainly concede that if everyone in my group was doing their job, this wouldn't have happened

But that's part of the fun of the game, adapting to the situation!

[clever sapphire]

this shit is legit the talent made for you

im not sure it has ever been used before

[thick sail]

LOL I've wanted to spec into that, but it's in such a horrible spot in the tree it's practically impossible to take

[clever sapphire]

i mean you could do this

xD

[thick sail]

Lol

I... could

[clever sapphire]

i know how to fix rogue, just make internal bleeding also get doubled inside deathmark

booooom

[runic hinge]

Does it deal the damage if it doesn’t stun

[thick sail]

Okay let me be further shamed

...I do have Internal Bleeding lol

[clever sapphire]

i dunno, never took the talent 🤣

[clever sapphire]

i enjoyed it in SL

[thick sail]

It does not do damage if the mob is immune 😫

[clever sapphire]

ah well than its useless

[rancid mason]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[clever sapphire]

but ye if you find yourself using kidneyshot often why not

i only use like 1 point kidney shot to interrupt targets when we legit dont have anything else left

[thick sail]

It's actually cancer as a casual player, doing new content, casting Kidney Shot being unsure whether the mob is stunnable, and seeing "IMMUNE," losing energy, and losing 6 combo points

Truly cursed gameplay

[clever sapphire]

im pretty sure i could take it off my bar and not realise it xD

yap

[runic hinge]

I Kidney every spiteful I get

Or the last one of the pack

[thick sail]

Like I feel like maybe lose energy, or lose the points, or put KS on cooldown, but really? All 3? Thanks Blizzard

[clever sapphire]

wat da heeell, i just run around like a madman cause slowing poison

or use evasion

i even use them to refresh energy with rupture

[balmy condor]

internal bleeding has to stun to do the damage

[clever sapphire]

and thats why its a dead talent besides in pvp

[clever sapphire]

this could also be interesting for you

[thick sail]

I take it for a pretty cursed reason, it makes my OCD tilted to have 1/2 points in Elaborate Planning

@clever sapphire I don't use CS or KS often enough to justify taking that, but maybe I could do some weird thing with my terrible RL friend group where I have them all focus what I use Kidney and CS on? It just would only work on trash, which makes it a pretty poor set of talents

If CS and KS put a debuff on the target regardless whether the mob was immune, that could be really cool

But it doesn't work that way, so 🤷‍♂️

[clever sapphire]

Ye i just assumed you use them regularly

[frank stone]

the sepsis build is pretty fun ngl

it allows me to actively use brain during fight

[clever sapphire]

So thatway it would somewhat make sense to get the energy reduction

[clever sapphire]

And this is why the rotten build on sub rogue is hated

But ye sepsis is fun

Better than sbs in ST

Where you just use sbs to not cap on it or if lacking energy

[frank stone]

I try to spread the good word of sepsis to ppl in my pug raids

[clever sapphire]

Dude today i saw a sub rogue still running dark brew instead of flag

I asked why

He said cause flag would be 1 extra button

And thats too much and he would missplay

And lose dps

[frank stone]

Thats how I use to feel about exsang but then I got over it and just kept practicing. It usually feels better if you do the harder option imo

[clever sapphire]

Usually harder means more engaging

But exsang is just not enjoyable imo

Also @balmy condor
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jJhaTes76mWekXNTCWeWd6
The bonespike build thats simming 3k less in DS is simming 1.6k more in ST, you think it would make sense to play it on tyra weeks? (Tbh i just want deathspike back so trying to make bonespike work )

[balmy condor]

no

[clever sapphire]

Feck

Back to the drawing board

[hollow vault]

[balmy condor]

the difference on an actual boss fight

on tyrannical

with like a 2 min kill

is probably closer to like

500

and that's if you have all your charges going into it as well

but also