assassination

[undone eagle]

I guess i starve and go for 5-6cp then?

[keen spruce]

yeah you normally starve out a bit around like 1:30 into the pull

[undone eagle]

Costs me some extra seconds

[keen spruce]

when your CDs end and you run out of tea

just don't worry about it

[undone eagle]

Tea + bonespikes yep

And no repri

[keen spruce]

pretend envenom buff doesn't exist

you'll still have like 96% uptime on it

even if it randomly drops sometimes

[undone eagle]

Aight , cuz i had in mind that i used to maintain the buff 24/7, i guess thats finally over..

[keen spruce]

well i mean it generally maintains itself

but sometimes you get unlucky

with no blindside procs or something and no energy or tea or spikes

[undone eagle]

Im kinda rusty cuz i quit like midseason 1 , just gotta get used to rotation etc 😅

[balmy condor]

Envenom maintains itself just by drooling on your keyboard

Assa is so fast

[undone eagle]

Well hello ✌🏻

[balmy condor]

Hi hi

[velvet nacelle]

oh whoops

i forgot to update my macro for combat pots and id idn't have a flask on the kill pull

well i definitely deserve the 8% parse i guess

[keen spruce]

[velvet nacelle]

my thistletea usage is shit

wasted like 25 energy on thistleteas

[undone eagle]

Usually what I do when I run out of tea etc, and I wanna hit 5-6cps i usually wait a few seconds to regen my energy instead of insta spamming my buttons, is this a good way?

[balmy condor]

Makes no difference

You’re waiting the same amount of time

Just shifting where you’re doing the waiting

[velvet nacelle]

@undone eagle i dont' think it matters much, but i usually try to save my pooling for like mechanics or something that might have me off the boss

[undone eagle]

Yeah kinda same here

[velvet nacelle]

wowanalyzer got a pretty dope update since the last time i tried to use this site

[undone eagle]

But since I thought envenom buff is good to maintain I usually wait until it has 1 sec left etc etc

But now I know

[balmy condor]

Dw

[velvet nacelle]

it shows you each cast and like conditions on stuff like how many seconds were left on rupture and garrote when i exsang'd

[undone eagle]

Cheers guys

[balmy condor]

Overcomplicating the spec is a community tradition

[velvet nacelle]

my exsang usages were yellow on the site... didn't realize it was 32+ on rupture and 18+ on garrote

[balmy condor]

That would mean you weren’t pandemicing your bleeds before exsang

[velvet nacelle]

yeah that's how it's looking

[flint tusk]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1101788562527096882/image.png?width=1621&height=615

[velvet nacelle]

@balmy condor i think when my exsang comes off cd i feel rpessure to use it immediately

so i'm trying to set things back up quickly

[balmy condor]

Oh

Well

You don’t do that either

[velvet nacelle]

but it's such a long cd i can probably slow that down a little

[balmy condor]

You hold it for a minute to use before Deathmark

So it’s a 4min cd

[velvet nacelle]

ahh

[runic gorge]

TIL

[balmy condor]

Yeh

Exsang in the middle of nowhere

Is useless

[tacit otter]

do you use fragment with your setup whispyr? in raid

[balmy condor]

Exsanging at 3 min with nothing attached is just a glorified shiv

[balmy condor]

I don’t have a fragment

[undone eagle]

Damn i go for it on cd everytime rip haha

So i always wanna combo it with my deathmark

[velvet nacelle]

and that's why rogue discord is the best discord, we learning shit today

[tacit otter]

i see, sadly because of fragment sbs is way ahead again than sepsis:(

[balmy condor]

You repeat your opener every 4 minutes with exsang

[rugged torrent]

Uh oh I missed this

[balmy condor]

Not sure about that

[tacit otter]

the exsang does +900 dps with 2-2p, and i wont play without cttc ofcourse

[balmy condor]

Puzzle box prefers sbs because puzzle box lasts long enough to go into next tier

But fragment is more burst, that shouldn’t run into the same thing

Sbs is way less burst

If anything, fragment should push sepsis further ahead

[tacit otter]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sPd5KXKrojSTxwZMKLauMz

thats the one i was just doing

[balmy condor]

What’s dtb sepsis 2

[normal olive]

yo whispyr i tried out the new sepsis stuff wanna have a look at my opener?

[tacit otter]

that sepsis + exsang

no cttc

[balmy condor]

Mhm

[hot blade]

Is there a guide to what trinkets i can replace puzzle box with as early as possible? It so cancer to use

[balmy condor]

Anything that sims higher

[vapid sierra]

nhttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jE7JJGk5uQo12WceraKYLZ

[tacit otter]

ye was hyped to play sepsis next raid but now its way worse since i dropped fragment in last halls

[vapid sierra]

only .2%

is the neck p[iece i have rn that shit?

[balmy condor]

aight

give me one second

I have something for this

[keen spruce]

[vapid sierra]

if possible which tier set slot do we aboid

obviously we take any

but which is worse

[balmy condor]

aight

I just got to work

smh

lets do it

[keen spruce]

[median flicker]

[balmy condor]

I want your sims
With the rise of sepsis, it's been increasingly confusing why and when it's a gain. The only way to figure it out is with your help. If Sepsis is a loss for you, please fill out the form. If it's a gain for you, you can also fill out the form, too! This is most likely a trinket/stat issue, but I'd like to find out why/what is causing it to be a loss for people.

Edit 1 <t:1684053900:R>:Thank you everyone for submitting your sims, I'm working on filtering through the data and getting to the bottom of it. You were very helpful, and I love you all

Edit 2 <t:1684065246:R>: Data has been tabulated, but I found a flaw in my logic and need to re-sim a couple profiles. It is 5am here as of writing this however so it’ll have to wait for later. Plan is to figure out why it sucks for people within the next 24 hours. After that the plan is work on finding APL optimizations for it, followed by updating wowhead/method/faq (and peer pressuring @marble hemlock to update icyveins) with all the 10.1 findings after the dust settles. That may take longer than a week. These pins will serve as the guide and information hub until then. Thank you for your patience and feel free to ping me about anything regarding this while I piece the puzzle together.

[balmy condor]

none, bis is all 5

[naive iron]

current sim with 405 ivl using SBS

[vapid sierra]

he wants it in the form

[naive iron]

i did that too

[vapid sierra]

send a topgear where you sim all trinks you have and sepsis vs exsang

atleast thats what i did

[naive iron]

i only have a few trinkets, didn't play rogue much this expac

[vapid sierra]

@balmy condor how stupid is it after i vanish garrote for dm i regarrote before the 3 seconds end to get a bit extra out of improved garrote

[balmy condor]

kinda stupid

are you doing it during dm

or before

or after

I guess is also an option

[vapid sierra]

well i dm>vanish>garrote> then like lats say shiv then garrote again

[balmy condor]

oh

yeh that's not great

[vapid sierra]

why?

[balmy condor]

you're overcapping a billion cp

[vapid sierra]

does it fuck with dm?

[ebon notch]

Whisper what's going on here lmao sepsis being sus?

[vapid sierra]

so then garrote shiv dispatch garrite

fuck not dispatch this isnt outlaw

[balmy condor]

exactly what the pin says idkk

[balmy condor]

vanish gar env gar env is fine

but like

[ebon notch]

Is it having that much variance?

[balmy condor]

vanish gar shiv gets you a guaranteed 6cp

and then you garrote again

and get another 5 cp

which are just going out into the void

[vapid sierra]

i can gar shiv envonem garrote

[balmy condor]

would I make a pin if it wasn't

[balmy condor]

okay now you're actually just trolling

you empower the garrote

and then instantly overwrite it with a normal garrote

[vapid sierra]

it wouldnt ahve been 3 seconds tho

would it?

[ebon notch]

Ok my bad lmao

[balmy condor]

gar is 1, shiv is 2, envenom is 3

[keen spruce]

4th ability misses the 3s window

[vapid sierra]

fuck

now bear wtih me

during lust?

[balmy condor]

during lust what

[keen spruce]

assas GCD doesn't change with haste

[vapid sierra]

doesnt gcd go down and it fits?

[vapid sierra]

rip

[balmy condor]

rogue gcd is 1 second hard capped

does not go up or down

[vapid sierra]

why does outlaw feel so much quicker with lust

[keen spruce]

or just don't worry about the 2s of extra empower garrote

[balmy condor]

because they have adrenaline rush

[keen spruce]

and press the ri ght buttons

[vapid sierra]

yeah, it was just a thought

[keen spruce]

[balmy condor]

• you're probably placebo'ing yourself into thinking haste makes things faster

which everyone does

[keen spruce]

feeeeeeels

[balmy condor]

because they like to pretend secondary stats do anything

[keen spruce]

hmm yes I got another ability off when I was normally energy starved 5 minutes into a patchwerk fight with exactly this many blindside procs

[vapid sierra]

fair enough

[balmy condor]

I can really feel this extra 5% crit strike chance giving me more combo points from seal fate even though I would need like 8 or 9% to even begin to get outside of variance on 25 pulls

[young briar]

Is there a reason we dont garrote twice from stealth on opener?

[balmy condor]

no exsang means no double garrote

[young briar]

i take it you sepsis gar then when it procs

[tacit otter]

iirc you use the proc on ambush and refresh garrote with vanish

[balmy condor]

depending on much time garrote still has

[normal olive]

best opener this patch trust me

[tacit otter]

i assume either is more or less the same?

[balmy condor]

ye

shouldn't really matter much

[tacit otter]

using vanish to refresh is probably easier to lineup for 2nd DM

but those 20s amp garrote rarely matter i guess

[balmy condor]

the mess with sepsis is just you have a million ways to get imp gar

and you want to use them all

but you're running into time constraints

[tacit otter]

if i play sepsis anytime soon ill probably refresh with vanish, seems more straight forward

[young briar]

this opener feels so weird to get used to

@balmy condor - I still have puzzle box, when should i use

before DM?

[balmy condor]

yeh

but if you have a puzzle box you wouldn't play sepsis

[young briar]

it was still an increase for me

sim wise

[balmy condor]

[young briar]

and i am performing better

with it

[balmy condor]

idk if you can quantize that in a day

it's like 0.5% better not 50%

lemme see the sim

[young briar]

Sec

ill run it again

So i played without Exsang cus i hate exsang

and without exsang: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/u7xBKCfVpDGjDxcp9EZb8s

With exsang its an decrease: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gYETCUgVpRk7QSemqLkRek

[balmy condor]

ty

[vapid sierra]

any thing i could do different here?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GfyJ1jmC784tdQTW#type=damage-done&fight=last&source=33&view=timeline

starting to getmore comfortable on the spec

i know i shived too late in dm, i thought i sent it earlier, used to outlaw adr and clicking buttons quicker

[keen spruce]

https://wowanalyzer.com/report/GfyJ1jmC784tdQTW/17-Heroic+The+Vigilant+Steward,+Zskarn+-+Kill+(4:32)/Orexev/standard

good tool

lots of good info

[vapid sierra]

i put it thru there

[keen spruce]

looks like you're usin tea when you have too much energy

[vapid sierra]

thats cause i keep overcapping on charges

[keen spruce]

and it doesn't like it when you let rupture tic down too much

how are u capping

[vapid sierra]

because we were progging the fire bomb fucker and i had alot of downtime on energy

so it would regen

[keen spruce]

i'm chuggin that shit to stay above 0 energy as soon as deathmark ends

oh i c

[vapid sierra]

i wouldnt have time to get to 70 energy to send a tea

i tried playing around it and dumping 2 in my opener without overcap that way i wouldnt overcap tea charges

[keen spruce]

uhh looks mostly okay

[vapid sierra]

any thing i could do to up the dps?

[keen spruce]

uptime

[vapid sierra]

uptime on boss?

on what

[keen spruce]

boss yeah

[vapid sierra]

gotcha

[keen spruce]

logs don't show it well for assas

[vapid sierra]

ill try and have more uptime

[keen spruce]

cuz your bleeds count as uptime

[vapid sierra]

because dots tick

yeah

[keen spruce]

just make sure you're always on his ass as much as possible hittin buttons

that's the main think i see with a lot of people

damage craters when you're off the boss

[vapid sierra]

kk ty

[keen spruce]

i'm sure there's some nit picky stuff too but i'm in LFG key hell and don't wanna look over them right now lol

and normally those kind of things aren't gonna make or break your parse

[vapid sierra]

gotcha

just more boss uptime

should i enovnem shiv or shiv enonvem during shiv windows

during opener its enovnem shiv

even without it being on animacharged cp

[keen spruce]

uhh I play cursed talents and opener that are not ravenholdt approved

so idk

[vapid sierra]

send pic

[keen spruce]

no

[vapid sierra]

im tryna see this

[keen spruce]

whispyr will yell at me

[vapid sierra]

that bad?

ill yell back

dw

[keen spruce]

it's like 1-3% worse depending on trinkets n stuff

[vapid sierra]

thats not bad

[keen spruce]

maybe much worse once i get tier

[vapid sierra]

what changes about it tho

why play that

[keen spruce]

idk cuz i was too lazy to change

[vapid sierra]

from shadowlands or?

[keen spruce]

no s1 beofre some of the tuning super early in the season

[vapid sierra]

ahh

[keen spruce]

and it gets me 3/3 zoldyk for execute

which is sometimes handy

in prog

but it's stictly worse

so i don't go around sharing it lol

[vapid sierra]

rip

[keen spruce]

it might be even bigger doodoo with new tier idk yet

haven't simmed

[vapid sierra]

do it

that way whispyr can yell ar you more

at

[keen spruce]

so my zskarn kill was like 8 seconds faster but i got like 10 more mutilates and a few more envenoms

but i also only did a couple more thousand dps than you

[vapid sierra]

interesting

[keen spruce]

just gotta try to be hittin the boss during the explody shit

basically all of tha energy that got wasted preventing tea overcapping could have been abilities into the boss

[vapid sierra]

yeah

[keen spruce]

if you were able to get more utime

[vapid sierra]

uright

doing magmorax now

should have 100% uptme

[keen spruce]

mag is much more payphone

[vapid sierra]

payphonme?

[keen spruce]

hopefully your group drops puddles close

to the boss

[vapid sierra]

they are

[keen spruce]

so you can soak and keep smackin

[vapid sierra]

they doing like raza

one behind one right one left

[young briar]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KBb9wf2zQ8FpJAYk/#fight=last&view=rankings&playermetric=dps

[keen spruce]

ye

[young briar]

this is my mag kill

i kepted fucking up my teas

but its a decent log i think

[keen spruce]

oh it just means super easy and braindead

deep cut meme

dw about it

[vapid sierra]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[vapid sierra]

we dont play eggnog ring right?

[young briar]

Nah cus we going for boots now

dont have helm

cant proc ring

[tacit otter]

thats not right

[young briar]

you can try sim with shadowflame enchant

[vapid sierra]

shadowflame

[tacit otter]

we play eranog until you get 447-450 ring

but you can swap cowl for trinket + shadowflame enchant before that to proc ring

[vapid sierra]

i might be getting the head piece and worried i cant proc ring since im not tryna spend a fuck ton of gold

on shadowflame wreathe

[balmy condor]

then the head piece won't be an upgrade for a while I'm afraid

[keen spruce]

you just need shadowflame for eggnog to stay worth and replace cowl? or do you also need a dispenser?

nvm i'll go sim

🦥

[balmy condor]

dispenser helps more than just a shadowflame

shadowflame does a lot of the lifting

but together is even better

[keen spruce]

good to know, our guild got a shadowflame enchant drop on our first normal kill

so we have discounts

[spice surge]

Im still holding out for them to fix the enchant so it can crit and then it will be good

[normal olive]

we got one for our drunk twink raid and everyone was like "roll fucking need man this shit is worth a lot"

[balmy condor]

I can't figure out the sepsis thing

first I was like oh it's a stat thing

and mastery/haste moved it by like 0.2%

but then I looked at a guy with puzzlebox

and it was -1%

and then I simmed it without the puzzle box

and it was -1%

so I opened another character

with puzzle box

-1.6%

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

removed the puzzle box

-0.7%

[normal olive]

have you tried better openers

[balmy condor]

it's gotta be some obscure combo

[vapid sierra]

maybe eranog ring

or weapon encahnts? or maybe theres a weird stat breakpoint?>

[steel ridge]

Must be lethal dose effect of sbs

that causes a gain for sbs with certain mastery levels (flat not with box)

[young briar]

Check my magmorax kill, I used a slightly different opener for that one and it was my best

[balmy condor]

That doesn’t mean much

[fallen charm]

are we no longer using a second garrote on the opener?

with sepsis

[woeful meteor]

not unless you are running exsang

[fallen charm]

gotcha

and how about the irideus trinket without exsang should we hold for deathmark or use it on cooldown with sepsis?

[woeful meteor]

probably similar rules to exsang or box use on cd if fight longer than like 6:30 else hold for 4 min mark

[thorn fjord]

Could it be the simulation itself

[violet talon]

My sim is showing a 3% loss using Sepsis

97k: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nNsxZsa47qjSHnsS5Edd59

Vs the standard Exsang+SBS at 100k: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fDMNSB8LW3hw382Q7AGB3y

[rocky ruin]

In your sepsis sim you have no venom rush

[violet talon]

I'm an idiot. Thanks for pointing that out. Still coming out to a 1% loss from Exsang build though

[misty holly]

I didn't realize venom rush was that much damage.

[violet talon]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ssq2K4L4fVcs4mWGiDGDmo

[cunning nest]

I think I stay true to the "old" build until I get bomb dispenser for box and new 4 set

[rocky ruin]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5NzDCXjJYWRret4HErZRpg

[spice spire]

Fill out the form in pins people

[brazen zodiac]

lol.

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[storm belfry]

[balmy condor]

you wanna run some sims with me bud?

he doesn't

[rocky ruin]

I would like to do it don't know cause missing the basic and so

[balmy condor]

you take a sim

and you just

start fucking

with everything

and hope you find a trend

it's very engaging

I have 20 responses, thinking about setting up some copypasta to run a gamut of tests

[rocky ruin]

Damn whispyr making it so fun
In germany we whould say
Dicka ne lass mal

[balmy condor]

instead of trying to fuck with each one individually

[balmy condor]

Ich würd's mal "dicka" schreiben. Versteh schon das man's so schreibt aber es kommt sehr nahe an's andere wort, und's gibt viele hier die des nett verstehen

nur mal so vorsichtshalber

[rocky ruin]

Aye yo didn’t realise mostly i don't use this word so much

[balmy condor]

yeh

I get it

but I also speak the language

so

[rocky ruin]

Whispyr i was simming right my exsang build with sepsis is now 1% ahead

[balmy condor]

I'm seeing it go anywhere from -2% to +2%

and I can't figure out what's causing it

[lucid birch]

German

👅

[somber sparrow]

you have to account for the fun-factor

[wind condor]

I’ll link mine when I’m back at my computer, but my shit is like .9% Dps loss making the swap to sepsis, this is without either mastery trink tho

[cursive frost]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

yeah just throw it into the google form

[bitter crow]

just sent you a sepsis log

[rigid tartan]

Imo when sepsis is within like 200dps still behind, it’s worth cuz it reduces the possibility of doing bad decisions on cd usage which might or might not be as likely for you. Especially during prog

[bitter crow]

can send you more after I got BiS trinket from normal (bomb dispenser)

[balmy condor]

log won't help much In this case I'm afraid

[bitter crow]

want a sim?

[balmy condor]

the form is just a generic form I use for like bug testing and stuff

but in this case I need sims

logs aren't consistent enough

[bitter crow]

kk, on it, gimme a sec

[balmy condor]

no rush

[bitter crow]

bear in mind I haven't upgraded / crafted anything just yet, asides throwing some shitty stone on bomb dispenser cause pog

also, question for opener: if I don't use vanish with my deathmark, then those two are out of sync for the entire fight

but it's a dps loss to use it, so how do we go about that :/?

[keen spruce]

you can just delay 2nd deathmark for vanish

unless somethin's changed

[bitter crow]

doesn't that loose you dps though?

then wasting a vanish in opener?

[balmy condor]

sims currently just simply do not vanish

and hold it for 2min

[bitter crow]

rgr

[balmy condor]

it's probably not optimal

but that's whats happening

[bitter crow]

here's your sim: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fYfJoLUCzNhJQ2sfc7T6b9

[wet tusk]

I know the shadowflame enchant is expensive, but is it what we'll be using eventually?

[balmy condor]

no

[balmy condor]

thanks

[wet tusk]

sophic is still BiS? awesome ty

[fallen charm]

mine is also a 1.7% loss https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hVuQBMpxfiz9Uxk3GfB4Xe

sent in the form

[balmy condor]

ty

[gaunt moat]

1% loss.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/93Vch9vzeHhpicmkYJJxvV

[void pecan]

1.5% loss for me

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b18C3hkNbtvNApHKGjJnCf

[fallen charm]

maybe irideus/puzzle are too strong with exsang

[keen spruce]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kNDkXkNvMmL9CnynYaSSqS

about 1% loss

just under

[void pecan]

Put it in your form too

[keen spruce]

o ye

[rocky ruin]

how much mastery do you have?`

[outer lodge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xusZwUnRBTFr1MzHnG4Jnm

[half comet]

i have a dumb question im super new to rogue

Does master poison buff the numbling poison talent?

[balmy condor]

yes

[keen spruce]

like 3k

3097 to be precise

oh fk i shoulda put lariat back on for that sim

i mean it's like a 200 dps difference but idk if the stat differences will goof things up

it's still a data point ig

[balmy condor]

I'm setting up a copypasta atm

which I can plug into all these sims

[keen spruce]

I slep. gotta go be a real person tomorrow for mother's day

[balmy condor]

dumb

I have too many mommy's to wish a happy mothers day to

busy day tomorrow

[runic hinge]

I sent my sim but im also stupid so

[balmy condor]

that's fine

[rocky ruin]

i checking atm some of the sims here right now with different gems and so

was thinking first some crit more or less gonna change it or mastery

[balmy condor]

changing gems won't fix sepsis being over 1% worse for people

sbs and sepsis are both dots, both affected by mastery, vers, crit

stats shouldn't change it too significantly

but big swings might go one way or the other

we'll see

I'm still working on it

[half comet]

with dwarf rogue should i make a macro for vanish and stoneform?

[balmy condor]

I don't think that's the best idea

stoneform is a defensive

[half comet]

really im new so im not sure

[balmy condor]

vanish is offensive

[brazen zodiac]

o.o

[balmy condor]

you want to have your defensive buttons available for when you need them

instead of just putting it on cooldown with a rotational spell

[half comet]

hmm ok but how is vanish a offensive if a bleed will get you out of stealth anyway?

[balmy condor]

every spec has talents and effects that make using vanish a dps gain

assassination has improved garrote

subtlety does more damage with shadowstrike

outlaw has a bunch of stuff too like count the odds

ambush is generally better than the other generators, and is only usable from stealth

[half comet]

hmm ok im so new to this im so overwhelmed hahah i just looked at wowhead talents and picked what they kinda said is good

[weak plover]

Vanish can be used defensively with some talents too 🙂

[balmy condor]

you're good

I would just keep them separate

99% of use cases for vanish are offensive

[half comet]

so much to learn with rogue its crazy but if i can get comfortable with it, it will be amazing

[bitter crow]

well, it also depends what kind of content you do

PVP / raids / M+

[half comet]

mostly M+ tbh

[bitter crow]

you'll want to use it offensively for dps then

defensive vanish is used more in some boss mechanics (raids) and PVP obv

[half comet]

yeah ok

i thought maybe questing could help get away from shit but idk

im just jumping into dragonflight now

[bitter crow]

then don't worry about min-maxing for now 🙂

[half comet]

okie ty

[bitter crow]

also, need to change certain roles, like I still have kingsbane on, definitely NOT playing that 😛

[solar bramble]

curious, for m+ at low levels (where you're still single pulling.) how close is assassination to the others? where IC is up for every other pull. and you can tripple garrote pretty reliably. and that's over 1/2 the mobs in the pull?

[sour citrus]

Gents and ladies, we start swapping out lariat with boots when we get 2 tier gear? Or 4?

[fallow canopy]

Is this the sim? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4zayNoz7qKC9CfuD2LQaQL (I put this one) I already filled the form but since maybe I'm a little dense I could have put the wrong one lol

[balmy condor]

whenever you get the sparks, doesn't matter on tier

[balmy condor]

it's not very close. The lower the m+ the faster things die, the less you can ramp, the worse you're gonna be

[solar bramble]

most the pulls seem to last a full 25-30 seconds. . when someone isnt' just hard carrying it

[balmy condor]

that's pretty quick

[solar bramble]

makes me sad. i love sin but it's so far behind the others. sub i can still play though

[sour citrus]

I see. Already crafted the slimy. I guess, i have to look for neck piece 😅

[balmy condor]

assault drops a good neck

the 441 from mythic was 0.2% better than my lariat just outright

mythic assault that is

the heavy crit one

[sour citrus]

We're still in heroic. Haven't passed neltharion. And neck didnt drop on assault 😭

[balmy condor]

yeh

that's fine

I'm just mentioning it

[balmy condor]

it's workable tbh

generally if your packs are dying that fast, it's not a dps check anyways

and you can just be the prio target guy

deathmark a big target

envenom funnel between CT's

do boss damage

handle the enrages

it's not the worst thing

[solar bramble]

just need 1 more dagger then lol

[balmy condor]

and once the packs start getting to like 40 seconds and you have IC for each one

[solar bramble]

cause . . . the others need 1 dagger/1 sword .. sin needs 2

[balmy condor]

then you're gonna keep up in damage too

it's not gonna be like holy shit this sin rogue is cranking my key wtf the damage is insane

[sour citrus]

Both can be crafted

[balmy condor]

but it's enough to be first or second in some keys

[strange python]

Whisp

How many resets does sbs need to be clearly better than sepsis? Thinking golems on zskarn

[balmy condor]

brother I don't even know what a character needs for sepsis to be better right now

with how close they are for the people that are seeing benefits from sepsis

I'd probably say any amount of cleave at all would benefit sbs unless you can game the improved garrotes consistently

[naive iron]

dang lost the bomb trinket with 30 :/

[tacit wedge]

If Zerocool still manage to time 20s, sin is doing fine

[grim tangle]

zerocool is the only sin rogue in the world who can time a 20

[tacit wedge]

Incorrect but i appreciate the enthusiasm

Thinking about a SBS/DTB build for keys with lower density like Neltharion's lair and VP, those keys where IC won't always hit 8 targets

[balmy condor]

I guess I’m dead meat then

[runic hinge]

I keep saying I’m gonna run an AP/dtb build for those and haven’t done it yet

[balmy condor]

Cause I’m for sure gonna time a 20 on Monday

When I get my blaster guild group together

[tacit wedge]

Ok but AP is not fun

[runic hinge]

You’re forgetting about the 20% shiv damage

[balmy condor]

You take that back

AP is my favorite

[tacit wedge]

Never

[oak sky]

realz is cooking

surely

more to come guys

[tacit wedge]

I'm the blaster in my guild

[oak sky]

[tacit wedge]

Yeeting the spear>some tier bonus of an obscure raid set

[runic hinge]

I like AP because I can take blindside and zoldy and that feels fun on bosses

[grim tangle]

nice how much you paying for it

[tacit wedge]

I can sell feet pics to a friend for a boost...

I'm a true hustler

[balmy condor]

I did 145k in a freehold and like 125k in an underrot

I ain’t paying shit

[tacit wedge]

Playing your sbs build?

Zamn

[balmy condor]

Sbs in keys?

I’d rather die

That’s troll as hell

[grim tangle]

I did 146k.

[balmy condor]

Fellow blaster

[tacit wedge]

sir

(ok, it was 5 days ago)

[balmy condor]

That’s not correct either

Does it have the checkmark

[tacit wedge]

None of your runs has it

[balmy condor]

Aight

[tacit wedge]

How was that Neltharion's lair?

[balmy condor]

And 5 days ago

Was Tuesday

So it’s not a verified run

It grabbed my talents

After I logged out

On a raid night

Sbs is my single target

Gg fucking bozo

Thinking anyone would run sbs

Cracker smokers anonymous is third door on the right

[tacit wedge]

getting flamed by Whispyr

[balmy condor]

I also streamed 14 hours on Tuesday and unless twitch is stupid the vod should be up

You can look at my talents for every key I did that day

And see I never ran sbs

[tacit wedge]

pog, vod

[main vessel]

I ran a Brackenhide without Whispyr earlier

felt sad

[balmy condor]

I went to bed without topple last night

Felt sad

[turbid heath]

quick Q

desirous, freezing & prophetic stones right?

[tacit wedge]

for st yes

[turbid heath]

ty

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[main vessel]

tonight too my love

[balmy condor]

[turbid heath]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[cunning nest]

Sepsis not worth yet for me (still have puzzlebox, but 2p+2p set)

I look forward to get rid of exh, bute I like sbs very much 🙂

[vestal wren]

probably need 4p for sepsis

[cedar iron]

for me its better without 4p

[vestal wren]

maybe also depends on stats

[balmy condor]

script works

testing time

[subtle tundra]

i wish i were as smart as you

[balmy condor]

topple wrote the script

to be fair

but now it's very simple

we take all the responses from the google form

and we run them against a set of tests

and the tests will increase the damage of the profile given

we then take the json from the raidbots output

and run it through topple's script

[steel ridge]

[balmy condor]

we then take that data

put it into a csv

[steel ridge]

Zugzug

[balmy condor]

and import it into a spreadsheet

we then filter that spreadsheet

and find the trend lines

and then we can determine the factors that make sepsis better/worse

and using that

we can then tell people why sepsis sucks for them

it's very simple

[subtle tundra]

it doesnt suck for me

i havent simmed it

but i like playing it

so thats what matters

[balmy condor]

idk

at first I thought puzzle box was making it garbage for people

but then I replaced the box on some of the profiles people submitted

and it didn't change

so now we gotta figure out what it is

it wasn't obvious if it's a gear thing either

it's just

very obscure

but with the power of data, all will be revealed

[subtle tundra]

math and number and spreadsheet

[balmy condor]

we do a bit of data engineering

[steel ridge]

Doing gods work

[subtle tundra]

blizz doesnt deserve whispar

😔

[winter gale]

Did anyone else had problems being summoned to vortex pinnacle?

[gloomy sparrow]

You need to be in bfa uldum

I was in cataclysm uldum and i could never get summoned, I just assume that's because whoever sums had the other version of uldum up

[winter gale]

Oh

I need to go there and talk to chromie once to make it ok

?*

[gloomy sparrow]

That's what I had to do

[winter gale]

Yeah, I was there recently, in the old one, to get that old tabard skin*

[frigid kestrel]

Do you think it will be a %100 change to Sepsis when everyone gets their 4pc? Or because it doesn’t affect it much, no ?

[balmy condor]

I don't think tier changes much, but we'll find out once I do my tests

[frigid kestrel]

Gotcha

[balmy condor]

700 lines of profilesets

I think I'm finally ready to spam some sims

[pseudo hamlet]

Stepsis still sims higher for me, even shows that puzzle box(421) + 4PC from S1 is better than dice(424) + 2pc/2pc(424)

[balmy condor]

[marble hemlock]

can you do the same for AP so we know why AP sucks?

[balmy condor]

I don't need community crowdsourcing for that

[marble hemlock]

true

[pseudo hamlet]

looks like mine typical wednesday without premium raidbot

[balmy condor]

does this also look like your typical wednesday

[marble hemlock]

my brain is permanently rate limited

[balmy condor]

I actually had to run all these sims

in 3 chunks

[pseudo hamlet]

yupsy

[undone marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/oprah-sim-you-get-a-you-get-a-sim-oprah-sim-gif-16921530

[strange python]

Keeping the Assass dream alive, one sim at a time.

[balmy condor]

this is

a lot of fucking data

jesus

[pseudo hamlet]

Considering the 2PC from Aberrus - it's better to spam CT in AoE situation than Envenom for the PB?
(while being energy saturated ofc)

[balmy condor]

no

2pc from aberrus increases CT the same amount as the 4pc from vault

so nothing changes

[royal lantern]

trying out sepsis cus i want to check the gameplay->details doesnt show sepsis dmg done

btw whisp, where would we put trinkets in the opener, after rupture?

[balmy condor]

yeh

kind wherever

as long as it covers deathmark

[marble hemlock]

you need to bind it to a hotkey and use it

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/surprised-black-guy-the-wire-gif-3673282

[remote oak]

Wholesome

[balmy condor]

look at all the silly little people in my pc now

so many goofy rogues

[royal lantern]

it was 2 am man

[winter gale]

Guys, should I upgrade my normal bomb dispenser with whats left of my wrym crests?

[lapis osprey]

Think you're getting heroic any time soon?

[winter gale]

I guess I should, it's bis trinket and if it's good for alot of ppl I will stay in line for HC

Atleast 2,3 weeks

And with what I have I can max it

[lapis osprey]

Probably wait for vault I'd say, if you've cleared hearoic

[winter gale]

I did

I will then wait, yes

Forgot about that

And on wednsday I will do it then

[lapis osprey]

I personally prioritized tier set I got from heroic

Since it gets to mythic level

[winter gale]

from 5/8 to 6/8 its 0.5%

Yeah

I will see what my vault will bring

Ty for the tips, I forget all those variables 😄

[minor gate]

Class trinket dropped

Resto Druid got it

[balmy condor]

gz to them

it could've been worse

like, you could've gotten it

[lapis osprey]

gottem

[royal lantern]

i mean, they didnt

[spice spire]

I fell asleep

[balmy condor]

that's okay

I will send link

to the sheet

and you can tell me to sleep instead

[spice spire]

Ok

I’m about to As well (again just woke up to 28 notifications)

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-sleep-gif-23970142

[eternal vortex]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[supple snow]

Which one is that?

[thin radish]

Does ambush procs overwrite the sepsis stealth proc? I feel like I lose a sepsis stealth proc when ambush procs..

[balmy condor]

they fixed that bug yesterday

[lapis osprey]

I got a question

In the opener, we use both sepsis procs on ambush, right?

[balmy condor]

you can, yeah

[lapis osprey]

And on 1:30 sepsis, I know I'm supposed to use the first one on garrote (I think?) but what about the second proc? Garrote is at 13 secs by then, is it worth using thye proc for a second empowered garrote, or do I just ambush?

[balmy condor]

whichever you think is cooler

[lapis osprey]

LMAO

It really doesn't matter that much

?

[balmy condor]

yeh

[rocky ruin]

if you are 4cp ambush and 5cp garrote

[lapis osprey]

That makes sense

[rocky ruin]

if you want to make use of it other wise then either one of them

[lapis osprey]

And on 2mn, do I like

Vanish > Garrote > Finisher > Garrote

Or do I just garrote once

[rocky ruin]

still wanna vanish+dm

[lapis osprey]

I just dm out of vanish?

[rocky ruin]

vanish garrote dm

[lapis osprey]

I think I got this whole thing down

I'm doing more or less what I sim on a dummy

[random fossil]

we not using vanish at all in opener? my quick sim waits til 2m deathmark

[balmy condor]

sims currently do not, no

[random fossil]

cool cool

[balmy condor]

!ts

[prisma monolith]

<t:1684065246:f>

[dusty trellis]

is it normal that horlans dice give 2k crit 2k haste and 1400 mastery sometimes ? or they gonna fix it
p.s. sry for russian screen xD

[scenic sapphire]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that it can proc multiple times so it stacks

[rocky ruin]

yeah it can

[dusty trellis]

ok thnks !

[balmy condor]

Updated pins

So re-pushed the notification for people to see red bubble

[marble hemlock]

no mention of me

[balmy condor]

Is there something that needs mentioning

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/JGJLo/4c963ed64e.png

[balmy condor]

Are you gonna update iv for sepsis

Now you don’t have a choice

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor you are cute

important ping

[balmy condor]

Ty :)

[rocky ruin]

What was the conclusion from all the sim? Some got worse result and some better really want to know why

[marble hemlock]

if its better, ofc

[balmy condor]

First pin

[marble hemlock]

whispyr just hates me

[balmy condor]

Yep

[marble hemlock]

[sullen hollow]

Does anyone know if they fixed the ksm rewarding the omni token

[pseudo hamlet]

Whisp, what's the time where you live?

[marble hemlock]

whispyr exists outside the time-space-continuum

[balmy condor]

5:20 in the morning

[royal lantern]

sustaining itself on monster energy, depression and Rogue Simulations

[grim jay]

just had one aswell while simming

depression isnt far away

[marble hemlock]

hichew you mean, not monster

[pseudo hamlet]

Please tell me you just woke up or something.

[balmy condor]

I’ve been in the sepsis trenches since about 8:30

I just got into bed

[pseudo hamlet]

damn

You should take more care of yourself, simming can wait!

[lapis osprey]

Nvm I do tank damage gg

I spend all this time asking questions gearing and practicing then I get into raid and do bottom dps this is so frustrating

[pseudo hamlet]

link the logs!

[subtle tundra]

cool the ele shaman is simmin 22k more than me on st

awesome

[tacit otter]

see you in 10.1.5 o7

[keen radish]

Mr Whispyr sir would we still macro fragment into DM on sepsis build

[tacit otter]

you hold exsang + fragment for 4 min

[marble hemlock]

you dont play sepsis and exsang

if you play sepsis, you drop exsang and 1/2 imp poisons to grab 2nd shiv charge and venom rush

[keen radish]

yeah i mispoke, long ass day

sepsis - exsang - dm sounds like one hell of a build tho. - more talent points when?

[marble hemlock]

fuck exsang

hope it dies forever

[keen radish]

beats sepsis by 1.2k for me... but i am a cerified sepsis enjoyer

just want kingsbane back 😦

[chilly viper]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[nimble brook]

Is there a way to link private logs? When I have access for you to see ?

[woeful meteor]

you can drop 1 zold point tho to get exsang, which sims higher for me 🙂

[woeful meteor]

no

give other person your warcraft logs account so they can log in but that isnt rally a viable option

[marble hemlock]

you belong in a zoo

but ye, might actually be worth it, just like dropping cttc. lots of options, all of them seem awful 😄

[woeful meteor]

that way sepsis was an increase for me while the normal one was neutral

I dont rly mind playing exsang playing no cct isnt an option tho

thats just cursed 10.1.5 snd removal

[ancient cliff]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Crit >= Mastery > Haste > Versatility
Note: In high mythic+ keys, you may want more Versatility to survive. While you may see this on high end players gear, this is generally worse DPS. For pure DPS, Versatility is mostly avoided.

[mint kindle]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[manic quartz]

is there a way to make condition or something in weakauras that colors off my garrote if its empowered by stealth or sepsis?

[rocky ruin]

only with custom code if iirc

[manic quartz]

damm, im losing track when i have better garrote up so i end up sometimes overiding it with worse one

[rocky ruin]

there are some WA with empowered garrote on wago

luxthos WA does that

[manic quartz]

Using afenar currently

[keen spruce]

you can download luxthos and just take the rupture and garrote modules out

and plop them into afenar

[manic quartz]

yeah going to test it rn

[keen spruce]

idk if it's updated to track sepsis correctly yet

[manic quartz]

seems not

[keen spruce]

my setup doesn't

[crisp gale]

Hello everyone,

I've performed some tet on raidbot using this template :

BMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINJSCcgElEAAAAAAAJAkkAAAAAAAQDJOQJJkkkkWKJiEkIRiFE

It's the Icy veins single target template.

I prefere to Shadowrunner instead of atrophic poison.

So far as I understand, atrophic poison is a defensive poison but when I sim on raidbot, the template with atrophic poison is 1% better than the one with shadowrunner.

I don't understand why....

Do someone have an idea ?

Thank you.

[keen spruce]

but i never update weakauras

[manic quartz]

yeah works fine now! ty!

[keen spruce]

[pure moth]

Why wouldnt you want damage reduction? Its not just a defensive. We already have high mobility and speed as well. I dont think you need shadowrunner.

[royal lantern]

what

atrophic does no dmg

you want atrohpic/mindnumbing cus its the rogue group utility

and because shadowrunner is a total meme talent that should not be a thing lol

[crisp gale]

yes that's a fact, but the question was more about the dps difference using atrophic... I don't understand

[misty holly]

If anything Shadowrunner should give a damage boost because you can get to the target faster.

[royal lantern]

probs just the ussual sim variance

[burnt latch]

Does bacon still scale from 4p

or did they fix that

[gusty mirage]

The shadow damage trinket?

[burnt latch]

its cosmic damage

4p used to buff it

but idk if they fixed it or not

[gusty mirage]

Well they specifically hotfixed tier and talents to not affect trinkets like 2 weeks ago

So prolly not

[burnt latch]

yeah i remember it being fixed but wanted to double check

[gusty mirage]

Outlaw legit the only spec in the game that has it still

For reasons

[burnt latch]

yeah

[gusty mirage]

With bte and ghostly

[burnt latch]

and

brewmaster

32% damage amp to all trinkets

[gusty mirage]

Brew’s not a real spec if we choose not to acknowledge it

[burnt latch]

based

[gusty mirage]

[burnt latch]

swapped to assa for rashok

[gusty mirage]

Yeah our brew gets obscene damage from the trinkets

Heroic bacon is like

4k dps for him lol

Or 4500

Some absurd shit

[spice spire]

GM @burnt latch I hope your prog has gone well thus far

[gusty mirage]

I’ll be rooting for you Habibicieft

[spice spire]

Mister warcieft stayed true to his roots.
Unlike daps. That bastard…

[spice surge]

DH still buffs stuff a lot

[gusty mirage]

That’s their crit garbage right

[spice surge]

Yep

[gusty mirage]

Yeah prolly works like BTE

If I had to guess

Did echo kill neltharion yet

[tacit otter]

yes

they did

[gusty mirage]

Pog. How close is method to a kill?

[spice surge]

Like 4% or something

[gusty mirage]

Neat

[spice surge]

Quite low

[tacit otter]

im not really sure, i just saw that echo killed it^^

[gusty mirage]

3 guild race

When’s the last time we had 3 this close

[burnt latch]

GM king, yes its been good and fun so far!

[marble hemlock]

we didnt

[burnt latch]

[kindred imp]

Anyone got some time to check my logs and give some advice where to mostly focus on improving? I feel like a lot of areas need it. :? thx
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/17rYgNHTnJQdkLZF/self#fight=1,1&source=6,-2&type=summary

[burnt latch]

nerf rogue?

(raid def didnt die 20 sec before me)

[lapis osprey]

show gear

[lapis osprey]

ah, fair

[vapid sierra]

dude got bis on bis on bis

[lapis osprey]

💀

[viral aurora]

So, for assa ST, are we running 2p+2p or just sticking with 4p from last tier?

[vapid sierra]

its in !whispyr

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[vapid sierra]

but 2pc 2pc irrc

[viral aurora]

Tyty

[lapis osprey]

Huh

Is that a thing?

Saw whyspir say that BiS is all 5 tier pieces

[vapid sierra]

no until you get 4pc

[viral aurora]

Ofc, this is if you dont have 4p yet

[lapis osprey]

Oh right

[vapid sierra]

2pc 2pc is better than old 4pc

[lapis osprey]

Yeah I was tripping

LMAO

[marble hemlock]

i guess nighthold might qualify

with serenity/method/exorsus

[burnt latch]

im like top 5 lowest geared peeps in the raid team

dps players atleast

[vapid sierra]

the fuck?

you guys do splits or something

[burnt latch]

yeah

3 splits

[vapid sierra]

makes sense then

[vapid sierra]

also no unholy dks?

rip

[burnt latch]

died early

[vapid sierra]

ahh

[subtle tundra]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[amber stream]

!whyspyr

[vapid sierra]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[wind condor]

was there a nerf not posted? my sim droped about 2k in sub and sin

[storm belfry]

No? You sure you don’t have something diff equipped or talented?

[vapid sierra]

maybe it was buffs picked/

[cunning nest]

is beacon simming much better than classtrinket for you guys, too?

I'm not sure what to look out for other than bomb dispenser

[gusty mirage]

our class trinket is ass

[tacit otter]

fragment + bomb sims higher for me than heroic beacon

[cunning nest]

okay

does the bomb dispenser one sets the other trinket on short cd? I always try to avoid double active trinket

but I've read some just bind it to multilate or something, feeling more like a passive

[cunning nest]

started to sim it rn, too

[storm belfry]

Where’d you read that?

[tacit otter]

i think someone joked about it at season 2 release

i remember someone said that

[cunning nest]

here in the chat 2-3 times

[wind condor]

hmm, i did have storming gem instead of freeezing, buit i dont think that would make htat big of an impact

[tacit otter]

for me its like 1k single target dps, but just sim yourself

[cunning nest]

oh, okay - stupid me then

[tacit otter]

its probably fine in most situation but no real reason to do that

it maybe just fucks the other trinket 1 out of 20 pulls

[main vessel]

10s CD rather than the usual 30s CD

[storm belfry]

Yeah idk why you would macro that to mut

Lol

[cunning nest]

nice, thank you for the info

I wonder why classtrinket is still shown as BIS on wowhead for that long

[quick pumice]

hey dumb question, while using eranog ring and no flaring cowl, do we want to use the shadowflame enchant on one/both weps? sim said that double sophic is better, but that feels wrong

oh its in the pin, nvm ignore me

[cunning nest]

you are right, fragment is indeed really strong

feels pretty s-tier to me

[keen spruce]

goddamnit

why are there 2 trinkets in here

[cunning nest]

Why not? I dont see any synergies so you just want to fire it without the need to think about it

not like the best way to play it, but seems legit for raid

[sullen hollow]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[gaunt moat]

Same happened to me today. cringe.

[waxen pagoda]

Hey guys! Im new into rogue class and I liked Assasination the most. I’ve been checking the guides of wowhead&icyveins but I have some questions. I crafted the dagger for main hand (437 ilvl) but Im not sure what is best to expend the item that allows me to have another 437ilvl: I got the crafted ring crit/mastery but I saw rogues should wear the crafted shoes and shoulders?

Also I’ve been building crit>>mastery>>>>haste/versa and Im not sure if thats the best (I do raid and m+)

I could really use some tips if you dont mind

[deft flicker]

Stat priority is a very rough thing, ideally you want to get gear with high item level or use Raidbots (sim) to determine which gear piece is better

[deft flicker]

Crafted boots and belt are our embellishment slots, but you can have other crafted gear on at the same time. Since you already have crafted a weapon, getting Slimy Expulsion Boots will probably be the best way to spend your spark (the item that allows crafted items to go up to 447)

[waxen pagoda]

Im afraid of the slow boots have

🥸🥸

[harsh cypress]

what's CCTC ?

[spice spire]

Cttc is cut to the chase

[deft flicker]

With the amount of mobility you have access to as a rogue slow shouldn’t be that big of an issue

[harsh cypress]

ty