assassination

[slim hamlet]

So @balmy condor qbout that 10.1 exsang deletion bet, you still holding on for last minute change?

[oak sky]

cant be before 10.1.5

[slim hamlet]

[grim jay]

exsang isnt even close to one of the big problems 😄

[jagged dragon]

How come there is no pve assassin's FAQ?

[deft flicker]

#assassination-faq

☝️

[slim hamlet]

An illusion, it doesn't exist

[grim jay]

[balmy condor]

you tell me

[royal lantern]

because whisp is a sub main that doesnt care about assassination

[deft flicker]

When does he become a full main thoufh??

[balmy condor]

I'm a dom main

[grim jay]

my nickname is dom

so do you main me ?

[royal lantern]

dom on ||deez nuts?||

[blazing jewel]

Forbidden power bottom

[jagged dragon]

@deft flicker ty

[subtle tundra]

Hj

Fuxk

I fucked my opener

Wipe

[cobalt hemlock]

you can wipe any number of times but you can parse only once a week

[brazen lantern]

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-gif-26307682

[brazen lantern]

[verbal mantle]

ye where is the PvE FAQ Whispyr?

stop keeping your secrets

[brazen lantern]

On his patreon

[fluid vector]

do you guys like the s2 tier bonus

having absolutely 0 knowledge about the spec

i saw that, and was like

yeah

purdy good

[royal lantern]

its dog shit

in all ways

lol

and makes 0 sense in its design

[gaunt moat]

Damage-wise it should be alright-ish.
gameplay-wise it's weird.
you get a damage boost after your big CD is over, which could lead to some degenerate play style

[royal lantern]

"2 set buffs crimson tempets and rupture, that will surely help assa aoe!!!" except that its the same gain as the current tier set

and 4set is litearlly "you do more dmg with 1 dmg source AFTER YOUR BURST DMG WINDOW IS OVER"

like

huh

[fluid vector]

i guess ill play outlaw o.o

i wasnt gonna play rogue in s2

but that t-set mog is BAD FUCKIN ASS

[oak tangle]

you see bigggggg number on the set bonus, but in reality is smol number

[royal lantern]

^

40% dmg reads high

but its only poison dmg

aka the passive weapon poisons and envenom

[gaunt moat]

But envenom just got buffed

[grim jay]

but

you said you will play outlaw

so you arent playing rogue in s2

[oak tangle]

they playing slasher spec

[limber lion]

Well, Nature Damage so also the 2p Rupture/CT damage.

[oak tangle]

i'm probs maining priest tho, that set is hella swag

[limber lion]

But yeh still not great

[grim jay]

its pretty fun

prolly best caster

tbf

gameplay-wise

[oak tangle]

least punishing for moving imo

[limber lion]

I disagree personally

Fire Mage bis

[grim jay]

I kinda dont like skb the way it is currently

but thats not the worst part

that TW talent is just hell

[oak tangle]

i am too slow brained to play anything with decent apm

[limber lion]

Yeh

I liked SKB because it was different gameplay and you had to track more stuff

[grim jay]

like you couldve given mage a second TW button with 5 min cd thats independant

but you force it to rely on groups tw usage

making the gain pretty inconsistent and awkward

with the talent

[oak tangle]

give the opposite of a neural dampener

[limber lion]

Yeh not a big fan of it

[oak tangle]

"your spells and abilities can no longer effect allies"

[whole mason]

not with 2p nature damage?

[grim jay]

its pretty tilting somehow. on the other hand, you are the TW source in dungeons so you can decide when to use it anyways

but in raids its weird

else I'd say fire/arcane most fun casters

[subtle tundra]

I can not play fire mage

Piano class

[grim jay]

but spriest is self-sufficient except for tw and does it all except high mobility

[oak tangle]

i dabbled in arcane, but quaking made me quit it, so might try it again if it's tuned well

[grim jay]

its prolly not, sims are pretty meh and it suffers the same 4p as sin

just in a worse way

bcs its arcane

[royal lantern]

i forgot that this is even a thing cus its such a lame effect lmao

legit turned it into a generic % dmg amp in my head

[oak tangle]

my try to holy pally heal in keys this tier, mw was season 1

[whole mason]

unless we're doing AP and buff AP's target and number, sin's still behind in aoe

[oak tangle]

Imagine a day, where ap and kb with tier set competes

[brazen lantern]

[fluid vector]

would ass be fixed if they just gave us some sort of CD reduction feedback loop with that AoE garrote capstone?

[subtle tundra]

[rocky ruin]

assa dont have any finisher that based on cp and cd only cp

[dark token]

Pretty sure you could have IC be a permanent passive

And it still do less in m+ than sub or outlaw

Cause after we get our bleeds out we send weak ass envenoms

And sub and outlaw out here doing aoe finishers

[drifting cosmos]

I am looking forward to ppl getting creative to abuse 4p in m+

dm a frog and get buff

[lusty surge]

Deathmark a critter before key starts

Get dm refresh and keep the amp

[drifting cosmos]

and hopefully the tricks would make into a faq section "where to use dm in keys"

[rocky ruin]

if poison bomb would be cd/cp based AOE Finisher damn

[deft flicker]

Exsang dm to get buff faster

[night delta]

Amen brother

[gaunt moat]

@balmy condor Are the slimy expulsion boots considered better because the nature damage? does the tier bonus affect it?

[balmy condor]

they're considered better because they sim higher

the tier isn't in yet, but it is supposedly a global modifier and would buff them

[gaunt moat]

yes of course hah, i'm meant why it sims higher
that's pretty neat. I'm trying to get the recipe for them, but it's so rare
Got the other boots recipe though 🥲

[balmy condor]

idk why it sims higher

it just does

effect is better dunno

stats on it are better too

[gaunt moat]

Do you know how much of overall damage the effect is?

[winged veldt]

Tell me you don’t understand how Exsang works without telling me.

[balmy condor]

sim says 2.6%

[gaunt moat]

thanks

[winged veldt]

While I am here I would like to throw out a thank you to all the people putting in the work to provide us with information some of us would otherwise not have. Honestly and truly grateful!

[deft flicker]

This is embarassing

[winged veldt]

Lmao just fucking with ya. Too early I know lol!

[deft flicker]

Second time in the last 2 days or so I just forget an article and turn a potent meme into a massive blunder

[winged veldt]

Lol

[slim hamlet]

wait why is there an exsang icon now

Who did this

Who needs to pay

[tacit otter]

compared to what? the other boots or other embellishments?:)

[balmy condor]

the other boots

the other embellishments are completely unviable

[tacit otter]

so verse/mastery is better than crit/haste

or am i looking at the wrong boots

[rocky ruin]

Wrong boots

[slim hamlet]

Yes yes I know the icon is here, but why is it a role

shouldn't be legal

[rocky ruin]

I was looking at the wrong boots

[tacit otter]

you sure? i checked link in pin + ingame

[rocky ruin]

I think the effect outweighs the stats

And our 4p should make the effect stronger or better dmg wise

[tacit otter]

ye i know all of that, i was just wondering because whispyr mentioned the stats are better

[tight fox]

Do you think sin will get more dmg buffs early in the next tier? How much should it get vs realistically get? I havent looked at other class discord sims other than mage and some rogue recently.

Considering its sins niche, it doesn't come close to a UH dks ST. I want to play Rogue as it would be something fresh buut im hesitant.

[balmy condor]

🔮

[winged veldt]

There will always be ebb and flow, as we have seen the top, middle, and bottom. So if you wanna chase fotm then as you know you will be changing a lot lol

With the way the tuning has been going what’s top tomorrow won’t be top in .5 and so on

Plus it’s not even live so who knows what’s what til it drops and a round of tuning happens Tuesday then I guarantee more in the weeks to follow

[tight fox]

I wanted to reroll to try something fresh..ish rather than chasing FOTM

[winged veldt]

Ah then just play what’s fun tbh

[winged veldt]

Just saw you mainly talking about damage and referencing one of the top st dps currently so figured it was more fotm oriented.

[tight fox]

fun and being viable while not being picked over another spec in raid go in tandem to some extent

im trying not to touch fire because Im burnt out on the spec from before so idc to top overall on each boss

[storm belfry]

Usually if you have to ask these types of questions you’re not pushing the content where being 1-2% better matters

[tight fox]

I guess

[winged veldt]

That’s what I was typing but way too long tbh lol

[tight fox]

Currently the diff is ~10k between the specs rather than 1-2%

I get what you mean though

[winged veldt]

He means top 1-2% of content pushing pretty sure

[tight fox]

I would have still imagined sin getting more since its what its meant to do, ST

[winged veldt]

As in unless you rwf or top 100-200 guild then it truly doesn’t matter

[tight fox]

mage specs are fairly similar in ST but will do more in their niche

[storm belfry]

all comes down to player in a lot of cases

[tight fox]

im not arguing that I need this to get a raid spot rather asking where do you think sins dmg should be given its niche

[winged veldt]

I’m in race to world last so I know I’m not being sat for what I play as I won’t be bottom anyways lol

[storm belfry]

I’m gonna say idk yet. Cause the content isn’t out yet. And things are subject to change likely at any time after content is released

[tight fox]

echoing this "mage specs are fairly similar in ST but will do more in their niche"

alright

o/

[grim jay]

the niche is non-existent

[crisp shard]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[weak plover]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[oblique jackal]

@balmy condor Are the race sims the same for 10.1?

[balmy condor]

yes they're all still completely irrelevant

[oblique jackal]

lmaooo u still going VE?

[winged ravine]

not irrelevant

looking cool makes you do more dam

[late surge]

based

[eager solstice]

Which rogue spec do you think it’s best suited for the raid? I saw some st/cleave/adds

[balmy condor]

I play vulpera

[balmy condor]

whichever wins the tuning lottery

[oblique jackal]

I considered Worgen too

furry life is legit

[eager solstice]

I doubt we get anymore tuning before second week of raid, so which spec do you think will do best week 1?

[balmy condor]

the one you play best

[near valley]

A man of taste

[late surge]

@eager solstice we dont have sims yet so hard to tell 🙂

[eager solstice]

True

[winged ravine]

suppose in 10.1 i were to ask my key buddies "is it cool if i swap to sin for this key?"

do i still get pointed at and laughed at or what's my outlook there

I'm very sadge I just want to rip massive garrotes

[tacit otter]

what rio are you?:)

[winged ravine]

at least 500

[burnt latch]

Damn

Nice

[winged ravine]

maybe even 600 (high io btw)

[tacit otter]

maybe consider only warlock then seems you try to reach for the top here

[winged ravine]

nah real talk I know everything is plenty serviceable at the 20 level of keys but damn it feels bad knowing i left a lot on the table when i'm playing with my buddies because i swapped off subt

they definitely wouldn't care if i did, but i would care, y'know

i just like being useful man

[tacit otter]

imo if you play well enough theres not much to miss swapping to assa

especially anyhting around 20

[winged ravine]

for sure

mostly just psychological i guess, even though i'm nowhere near the key level or level of play that it remotely matters

[tacit otter]

as long as you have fun doing that and fun in improving, theres nothing wrong with playing assa. i only played assa in m+ and reached 3k couple months ago and then stopped

[uncut echo]

Idk, in heroic y'all should play your fave spec

[fluid dust]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[grim jay]

considering people

(or atleast one)

plays 26-27 regularly on sin

without looking bad

you people worry way too much anyways

[haughty flicker]

If you have your own group sure

Obviously always play what you enjoy most but you’ll also always be at the whim of the pug tier list hivemind

[grim jay]

its like that with 80%+ of the specs

[haughty flicker]

As you go higher the number of specs effected increases yes

[grim jay]

that aside

nothing stops you from getting people to play with regularly

[haughty flicker]

I mean that depends heavily on schedule and other factors

But a large number of people pug so it’s just something that has to be accounted for

[grim jay]

dunno

I have a pretty busy schedule

and you can always add people to your friendslist to invite for keys

at some point people are only when you are

having a guild thats active in m+ supports that aswell

[haughty flicker]

Yes, there are many ways to find groups

But that does change the fact that a lot (probably the majority but I don’t have a concrete source and too lazy to look) of people pug

Otherwise the hive mind wouldn’t be an issue in the first place

Again, always play the spec you enjoy most

That’s why I’m not a filthy sub player

But if you pug it’s just a fact that you’ll have to deal with

[gusty mirage]

hi im new here

what poisons do we use

[haughty flicker]

Slaughter poison iirc

[gusty mirage]

[uncut echo]

Bully

[blissful oyster]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/ok-ok-and-okay-buddy-dont-care-didnt-ask-gif-25239605

[uncut echo]

How you doing today oxi

[gusty mirage]

https://imgur.com/ZtgroTX

[uncut echo]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAaaAAaaaa

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/lizard-fidget-spinner-spinner-gif-9575113

[acoustic flicker]

question do the sims account for effects on primordial stones actual proc rates? debating between this ring combo and i know i should sim myself im just not sure how accurate onyx annulet sims are

[grim jay]

yeah thats a general disadvantage of pugging that hits multiple specs, its still not the specs issue tbf

[haughty flicker]

I’m not saying it’s the specs fault

It’s the silly tier list mentality’s fault

[uncut echo]

Yes, they account for normalized proc rates.

[acoustic flicker]

thank you i appreciate it

[uncut echo]

Glad to help. 🥰

[brazen zodiac]

:)

[uncut echo]

:o

[brazen zodiac]

:o

lets begin

:3

[uncut echo]

:3

[royal lantern]

[brazen zodiac]

:333

[winter gale]

On wowhead it says all abilities dmg increased by 5%

And then envenom dmg increased by 5 %

[uncut echo]

Correct.

[winter gale]

Its 5% on top of the 1st one?

[uncut echo]

Yes.

Buffs are in total just shy of 5%.

Due to auto attacks being a substantial part of our kit.

[winter gale]

👍👍

This is atleast something

[uncut echo]

A 5% buff is very big

We love it

[winter gale]

All in all, Ill stay assa

[strange python]

Not enough. But it's a start.

[uncut echo]

It is enough. :)

[winter gale]

Every fight needs boss dmg

😂

[strange python]

Post buff sin does a lot less boss damage than most other specs, by all accounts

But hopefully there will be more tuning.

Gotta start somewhere

Losing puzzle box is a big deal

[royal lantern]

tbf, we dont know what the "norm" is supposed to be anyway

[royal lantern]

and we get the halls of infusion trinket, so who cares?

[strange python]

We don't. But until I start seeing nerfs, it sure looks like the "norm" is closer to 135-140k

[uncut echo]

Which we'll see.

Because they did it first tier.

[storm belfry]

Which is that one?

[uncut echo]

Iridius fragment

Shit ton of mainstat, decaying every cast

3 min xd

Cd

[green juniper]

I am not ready for the patch

[storm belfry]

[uncut echo]

Why

[brazen zodiac]

why x2 :o

[green juniper]

I quit after hitting 2500 which is like a month or two ago

i forget everything

[uncut echo]

Good to know it easy to learn

[green juniper]

I have to do one good m+ for new key for the patch right

[oak tangle]

difference between a 16 and a 20 next week is whether or not you need to do between 2-4 timed keys before you get back to where everyone who did a 20 was

and with a 7 dropping 410 ilvl you probably want to be doing 10's and abov

(depending on your skill level and current ilvl) but with 2500 you're probably 416+

[proper tapir]

Yeah, next week is about reminding your guild that you're alive and why they love you. You just gotta get in a 20/21. Other than that you can work on alts or getting gold or something.

[green juniper]

cheers buddies our bond is not the strongest with the guild anyways

[cobalt hemlock]

keys always harder start of patch plus no season giving you dmg boost/buff

[junior aurora]

thundering actually made keys harder

bc you likely didnt get 5% damage benefit over the wholel dungeon and it increased all mob hp by 5% on top of the mechanic

[hoary remnant]

U should as dps if you wanna be a decent player be able to play all 3 dps specs imo. I personally would take s1 who can play 3 specs well then some mega 1 trick pony.

[grim jay]

I know some people that onetrick stuff

that I would have over most people

a top performing player on a weak spec is still better than a mediocre player on a good spec

[storm belfry]

Indeed

[haughty flicker]

i do know how to play sub, and played when needed like in aa

but i'll still never call myself a sub player

[bronze pike]

playing ninja?

cringe

[haughty flicker]

if it was a cool ninja maybe

then again outlaw isnt a cool pirate either

rogue spec fantasy nonexistent

[deft flicker]

Sin is still a cool mass murderer

Outlaw kind of feels like a cool pirate (with hook, dice and being all over the place yoinking stuff from other specs)

Sub’s spec fantasy is still a mystery to me though

[vestal wren]

outlaw is the sword fighter that does not shy away
assassination is the dirty trick spec that uses poisons and tricks to cause you to bleed out
subtlety is the shadow/ninja fantasy somewhat naruto like i assume

it is a nice way to say they target points to rupture vital organs and make you bleed intern while also use tools to make you bleed outisde (like a garrote)

[deft flicker]

Sadistic serial killers

[deft flicker]

What would you say is the most subtlety-flavoured ability currently??

[grim jay]

sectec

[near valley]

shuriken toss

[weak plover]

shadow clone jutsu

https://tenor.com/view/naruto-shadow-clone-jutsu-anime-gif-15938044

[near valley]

too bad you don't actually see yourself replicated

[placid ermine]

hard agree, wish it was ever considered part of the toolkit by blizzard

[royal lantern]

"wanna see a cool trick?"

puts a knive in you

[placid ermine]

like for tier sets etc

[storm belfry]

Believe it!

[vestal wren]

secret tech possibly

[unreal coyote]

Wish assa was more about poisons than bleeds

Since rupture is used in sub

[storm belfry]

Will dagger be our first craft next week?

[grim jay]

[storm belfry]

I skimmed past that part

My bad

[acoustic flicker]

its crazy ive played shaman and warlock since i started i just recently came back and decided to try rogue and i regret the past 10 years lol

assa is fun

[strange python]

Every time I try to go play another spec, i always end up back on Assa.

[spice spire]

[indigo ginkgo]

so crafted gear will be what 421 min item level ?

[strange python]

[spice surge]

All crafted gear will get +3 ilvl

[indigo ginkgo]

thanks

[jaunty phoenix]

why is fan of knives inconsitent on cp gen?

sometimes i get 2 sometimes 4

[royal lantern]

[proper tapir]

The CPs come from crits, it's not like subs

[royal lantern]

read what the ability does ^^ it gives 1 cp, and more cp cus of seal fate on each crit

[jaunty phoenix]

got it thanks!

[proper tapir]

I'd say that it gets better once you get 34% crit but I'd hate to lie

[grim jay]

it theoretically gets better

but in reality it tilts you even more if it doesnt crit

[scenic kelp]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[runic hinge]

When you hit 8 mobs and get 2 combo points

[quaint nimbus]

you play sin because you enjoy pain; not because you enjoy damage :)

[viscid spear]

We are not the same.
~Gustavo Fring

[gusty mirage]

That’s a feature of sin aoe

[brazen zodiac]

passive cx

oxi!!

[runic hinge]

And it's beautiful

[versed mica]

It's epic spec flavor

They should make mut give 1 cp+ 2 cp for every crit it does

Now that would be epic

[spice spire]

Delete this rn nephew

[versed mica]

I will be instantly hired by blizzard as rogue dev for my brilliant ideas

For my next idea, I will make envenom do 200% more damage, but it will consume your poison buffs and you have to reapply them

And while reapplying poisons, your bleeds do 10% more damage

I'm literally a genius

[solemn oracle]

The hero we need, but don't deserve

[indigo ginkgo]

i would prefer that the 4 set simple remove cd time on exsanguinate for example, and if we wouyld in full combat smashing it would pout the exsang on a 1min timer

[spice spire]

Gonna start adding you to the topple and rembourrage ping

[versed mica]

No no hear me out

Roll the poisons

We roll for random poison buffs and they last for 20 seconds, random chance for all poison buffs, but chance for only one crippling poison buffs

I'm a god

[polar cape]

exang rework into the sepul 4pc

[quaint nimbus]

if outlaw can roll the bones, we can roll the poisons. i see no issue with this

[woeful meteor]

sepu 4p was giga op tho and feels like a hard effect to balance

[steel ridge]

Its essentially deathmark tho

[pure moth]

No, just no

[brazen zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/no-nope-cat-cute-gif-4544032

[glacial lantern]

Blizzard really should address assassination aoe

[balmy condor]

Not happening this patch at least

Hopefully in the future

All the rogue talent trees need a bit of looking at

[glacial lantern]

I think it's not justifiable to not have good aoe options that don't cut significantly into st damage because "that's the fantasy of the spec"

[marble hemlock]

"a bit"

just like i have "a bit" of a crush on oxi

[serene fossil]

as an outlaw player i approve

https://tenor.com/view/kirby-sonic-knuckles-kirby-fighters-meme-gif-20230756

[fathom kiln]

S tier opinion

[oak sky]

Thats not why we arent getting aoe work though they just don't know how to deal with it

[glacial lantern]

Why? feral already has the solution, what's the issue with making indiscriminate carnage not a capstone talent and uncapping it?

[woeful meteor]

carnage bad

dot spec having a just apply all dots and vibe after button is bad

[spice surge]

Idk depends on what the goal is. Do you want assa to have strong dots for multidotting or weaksauce dots applied to everything easily

[glacial lantern]

Having to individually apply dots is exactly the problem with dots specs in aoe

[autumn frost]

Would we broken if they lowered indiscriminate carnage to 30 seconds?

[spice surge]

Yes, but if you can apply it to everything the dots must be weaker to compensate

[woeful meteor]

yes because you get 100% rupture uptime for free

[autumn frost]

I mean outlaw basically has that.

I don't see the issue. Wouldn't affect our single target damage.

[woeful meteor]

psychic link for sin

[woeful meteor]

im not playing a dot spec to not worry about dot uptime

[glacial lantern]

Then enjoy aoe mediocrity

[spice surge]

Fwiw thats the exact thing shadow priests are vehemently complaining about

That their dots do no damage

[glacial lantern]

Every single dot centered spec has a way to spread dots for a good reason

[spice surge]

Yes and theyre all turbo weaksauce because of it

[autumn frost]

Maybe out rupture damage could do more then sub for once.

[spice surge]

But blizzard doesnt want multidotting to be a thing anyway

So thats probably how it will go for sin too eventually

[woeful meteor]

that would be pretty nice

[main vessel]

Is Quake here

I didn't actually deliver my cooked suggestion yesterday

So I'm here for my court-mandated harassment session

[woeful meteor]

just post it rn and ping him, surely it will make the suggestion even bettter

[main vessel]

the delay will help me actually come up with a suggestion

[uncut echo]

Omg

[main vessel]

I might need to crowd source it a little bit tbh

[uncut echo]

A red topple

[main vessel]

Hi Ahri

[uncut echo]

Hi topple

[main vessel]

am here to abuse the goodwill I've built up by making log review less painful

[uncut echo]

Based

I come in here to tell people tierlists are memes and that sin is playable

[sullen hollow]

it is

[thorn fjord]

Anyone have that screen shot of expected sims going in to next week?

Saw it posted yesterday

[main vessel]

I might have it somewhere

[sullen hollow]

proof right here that sin playable

[main vessel]

I was talking to Whispyr about it

[sullen hollow]

x)

[main vessel]

while he emotionally manipulated me into pushing simc changes for him

[thorn fjord]

Lol

[main vessel]

turns out I don't have it

I just have a picture of him committing a warcrime

I'm gonna be ill

[autumn frost]

I mean the standards for playable just requires you not to dc.

[balmy condor]

those chicken tenders were lit

[main vessel]

at least they weren't nuggies

[storm belfry]

I’m all for agreeing sin is playable but you gotta post the sin IO ranks and not just rogue

[storm belfry]

This is why I love you

[uncut echo]

🥰

Being based isn't something you learn

Maybe you're born with it

Maybe it's Maybelline

[storm belfry]

[uncut echo]

Interesting channel choice

[earnest remnant]

assa unplayable, thoughts?

[uncut echo]

No thoughts

Just raccoons.

[earnest remnant]

huh?

i thought you played assa, not outlaw

[uncut echo]

I play arms?

😭

[earnest remnant]

condolences

[uncut echo]

Is oki idm

[earnest remnant]

sorry to hear that

[uncut echo]

Lmfaoooo stealthi 😭

[earnest remnant]

its okay

i forgive

[granite sentinel]

is there any point to save s1 spark for the next week?

[thin ingot]

"we will redesign exsang in the future, or remove it entirely from the tree" or something like that

i feel cheated

[woeful meteor]

?

if they change exsang in 11.0 the statement is still true, future is a pretty big timeframe

[opaque sky]

I thought you said arams and was like, "Ah, a person of culture I see"

[gusty mirage]

I think you deserve a spanking

[earnest remnant]

threatening me with a good time

[gusty mirage]

stealthi what do I do

it's 9:50 and I ran out of shit to do

I even did a key on my 408 warlock

[earnest remnant]

its 3:46 for me and im empty inside

[gusty mirage]

is it cocaine bear time again?

[storm belfry]

It’s 846 for me and I just ate

[earnest remnant]

[gusty mirage]

I just made dinner

[storm belfry]

I had tostadas and rice

I’m now walking

[gusty mirage]

I'm having meatless chili

so I don't food coma for 3 days

[storm belfry]

What is that

[earnest remnant]

meatless chili

[gusty mirage]

it's chili w/o the meat

[storm belfry]

I’ve never heard of meatless chili

[earnest remnant]

so just

[storm belfry]

The hell

[earnest remnant]

chili

[gusty mirage]

chili implies some sort of meat in kkona land tho

so beans and the chili seasoning

[earnest remnant]

same here

[storm belfry]

I was gonna say

That’s just beans

[gusty mirage]

the chili is in the seasoning smh

if you make beans and meat it isn't automatically chili

[earnest remnant]

for certain white people

the meat itself is to spicy anyway

no need for the chili

like today i got send a picture from my cousin she was "cooking" it was just chicken breast without any seasoning

i cried a little

[gusty mirage]

better than most chicken breast videos I've seen

you ever see the "making chicken tartare" videos?

[earnest remnant]

cant say that i have

[gray crest]

yall like your chicken cooked medium rare?

[earnest remnant]

i like death too

[gray crest]

you can really taste the salmonella

[drifting cloud]

its vegan

[gusty mirage]

@earnest remnant why are ele shaman dooming

[earnest remnant]

nerfed

[gusty mirage]

yeah

massive "nerfs"

[earnest remnant]

all thats needed for a little dooming

[gusty mirage]

50% maelstrom instead of 75%

and 1 less stack of stormkeeper

WOWOWOW

[woeful meteor]

probably not saving a spark allows you to craft the toxic shoulder embellishment earlier, but then you loose 4 piece and/or eranog ring activator which, will be loss overall. Saving it to decide between slimy expulsion boots and toxic thorn boots, once patch is live is probably your best bet, but a very minor gain anyway, depends on what neck you have to replace lariat.

[gusty mirage]

hi @woeful meteor

[woeful meteor]

hi ❤️

[balmy condor]

that's not very mean moderator of you

[oak sky]

Chili so goated

Do you put pasta in your chili??

[gusty mirage]

imma get judged if I tell you what I put

esp by @balmy condor

[oak sky]

Nah i wont judge

[earnest remnant]

[gusty mirage]

I put quinoa

[oak sky]

Ooh

I like quinoa

[gusty mirage]

quarter cup of quinoa helps soak up the sauce

so it's not soupy

[oak sky]

Yeah pasta is similar

Takes up the water

[uncut echo]

League

[oak sky]

U play tft dont u

[uncut echo]

No

[oak sky]

Also league is back on the menu in 2w

[earnest remnant]

arms warr

[oak sky]

Or whenever .10 drips

[earnest remnant]

[oak sky]

Drops

[uncut echo]

not of my own accord :C

[earnest remnant]

well you couldve just said no?

[uncut echo]

I wouldn't have had a raidspot

[oak sky]

Couldve gone furry warr

[earnest remnant]

just be better than other raiders

skill issue

[woeful meteor]

^^

[earnest remnant]

[oak sky]

We wouldve had 3 rogues

Our raid leader is cringe and does the comp thing

[woeful meteor]

Playing Meta comps cringe

[uncut echo]

I was on par with Whispyr

but why bring another rogue

when you could just recruit a second warrior

[earnest remnant]

why not?

[uncut echo]

Idk ask our leadership

I'd like to still play rogue

but that's mostly because I'm uncomfortable with Warrior survivability

[oak sky]

Im glad to be off rogue for a tier

Like thats not even a doomer thing

I need a change of pace

[uncut echo]

nah, breaks are good

100%

[oak sky]

And like the doomer thing is a side benefit

I kinda hate rogue rn

[earnest remnant]

i just dont get people's obsession with this shit

[oak sky]

Giga wasted potential

[drifting cloud]

cant wait for stealthi to reroll lock

[earnest remnant]

when i stop playing rogue is when i dont play anymore

[oak sky]

I like other classes

So im cool

Rogue is just my favorite concept

[earnest remnant]

but like the 2x warr vs 2x rogue is just a massive

[uncut echo]

yup

idk man

[oak sky]

Not that massive tho is it

Rally

[earnest remnant]

its not no

[uncut echo]

Happens

[earnest remnant]

its good for hard hitting abilities that would kill people

[oak sky]

Melee not the greatest this raid so really you would rather have a ranged

Or maybe an op melee

Idk what those are this tier

Maybe dk or ret?

[drifting cloud]

the only argument I could see if the other warr doesnt have 100% raid attendance

[oak sky]

To stack

[drifting cloud]

rest is just cope by officer team

[earnest remnant]

like bombs in p1 pre nerf on Rasz rally was good for that

[oak sky]

I mean ye bottom line the rally is just unnecessary

Like its nice but its not nice enough that you cant just have 2 rogues

[earnest remnant]

its about as niche as atrophic is

and rogue is infinitely harder to die on than warr

[drifting cloud]

its alot stronger in rwf than a few weeks later

[earnest remnant]

yeah when you actually need the HP to live it

[uncut echo]

rogue is immortal

I miss it sm

[earnest remnant]

but if you are raiding top 300 (i dont know their wr) it literally is just cope

[uncut echo]

you hit the nail on the head

warrior is not 100% attendance

[woeful meteor]

but 300 is nearly 200 which is hof so very important

[drifting cloud]

esp with a summer tier and shit, my officer team always ask for absences ahead of time

because well theyre just going to be alot common in those months

[royal lantern]

idk, cant play other classes for more then a couple days

like, always the same, lvl an alt and either stol halfway, or get it to max lvl and drop it cus it feels like wasted time on a character i dont like

and back to rogue again

[gusty mirage]

wtf bro

[drifting cloud]

yo oxi what days does your new guild raid

and will you be streaming

[gusty mirage]

tuesday, thursday, sunday

and wednesday for first week

[tough latch]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[strange python]

do we got 10.1 tier sims by chance?

[spice spire]

Pins

they're guesttimates atm tho

tier hasn't been implemented, so it's harder to do the talent specific stuff because there is interaction there

that's impossible to emulate without implementation

[strange python]

gotcha sorry for askin a dumb question thanks

[spice spire]

no worries homie

it's pretty valid, but yeah, pins just in case! Second post has a tracker of what's fully updated as well

[strange python]

i’m a rookie to this thanks again

[brazen zodiac]

quake!!!!!

[spice spire]

any time, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask! That's what we're here for

hi inmem!

hope you're having a glorious day

[brazen zodiac]

quake i has a question!

[spice spire]

how can I help?

[brazen zodiac]

yes sir i have been doing lots of crafting!!!!!

how do u be so cool :O

[spice spire]

Oh homie

I'm the wrong person to ask

[brazen zodiac]

i was able to get my merchant artisan achievement on 2 toons today

i was super duper happy!

[spice spire]

ur too good man

[brazen zodiac]

thank u i type very fast

actually im just auto at this point ive said the same phrases and lines over and over again that it just goes out

when u gonna let me craft ur heart quake cx

[spice spire]

Oxi already has

Too slow buddy

[brazen zodiac]

no wonder why its only rank 4

guy cant proc rank 5 sigh

[pure mauve]

hello friends anfter rogue assa buffs do you think could be strong spec for m+?

[tacit otter]

the 'buffs' had no impact on aoe at all, so nothing really changes

[pure mauve]

If im not wrong there is a 5% buff to all abilities

[deft flicker]

It’s a flat aura buff which changes nothing about how assa’s damage works (which is the main issue with the spec in m+)

That being said you will still be able to do keys and bring something valuable (poisons, AoE silence on a rather short cooldown, enrage removal, shroud, etc)

[marble magnet]

As someone who doesnt play Assa, I legitimately just kept throwing dots. Not making sure if people had both Garrote and Rupture, just if they had something

[rocky ruin]

playing on a notebook?

[rocky ruin]

aura buff for aoe is literally changing nothing for us

[oak tangle]

!lariat

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.

[marble magnet]

1920x1080 is my recommended but I like playing on 1600x900

[indigo mulch]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[sage zenith]

do we use crimson tempest on 1 target like bosses?

[balmy condor]

no

[sage zenith]

@balmy condor Thanks a lot

[white bone]

So whispyr are you THE survival main in here?

[balmy condor]

I've only ever played rogue my whole life

don't ask me anything

[white bone]

Is it rude for me to ask for your character name so I can check for examples?

[balmy condor]

the most non-rogue I've played is leveling random alts at the end of an expansion

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/area-52/whíspyr

I mean be my guest

I'm not the best player in the world

nor have I ever claimed to be

[white bone]

Thank you

[balmy condor]

I ain't hiding anything :P

[strange python]

hi, i'm a fairly new player of wow, i play assassination rogue and i know that compared to sub and outlaw in m+ it's a lot weaker, my question was very simple.. in high level m+ there is a possibility that i will not be accepted in groups if spec assassination?

[light marten]

Do we have some theory crafted sims for ST next tier

??

[balmy condor]

pins

[balmy condor]

typically not, but if you eventually get REALLY high, like past 24/25, and you're just pugging, people might see it and find it pretty weird

usually the amount of times you get declined/kicked for being assassination you can count on 1 hand

it happens, but it's fairly rare

[strange python]

oke tysm

[balmy condor]

np

[static glacier]

I’ve had my 2nd char be survival for about 2 expacs in total now

[frail tiger]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[white bone]

Why have you switched to rogue now?

I’m super torn between survival and assasination

[candid goblet]

on assa opener, am I supposed to land on anima charged cp's on every finisher after deathmark?

[limber lion]

No

You finish if you passively land on an animecharge point

But you don't go out of your way to do so

[static glacier]

I was always sv alt and rogue main, the reason I don’t main sv is no raid buff + weak survivability.

[candid goblet]

"If you do the openers as listed, you should be able to use the same sequence over and over with no variations, always landing on an animacharged combo point when you need it"

I'm not sure what this means then

[limber lion]

It refers to the beginning

Where you ER - Rupture

That Rupture will always be animecharged

Because you will always land between 2-5cp

[candid goblet]

oh thats it? ok

[static glacier]

Sv is a more flexible spec than sin is in terms of damage profiles, sv doesn’t give up much of its st to aoe while sim does

[limber lion]

After that it's not guaranteed or something to go for.

[candid goblet]

Also I'm generating cp's when I press deathmark, not sure why

[limber lion]

Because of Shrouded Suffocation

You vanished before DM, which means you activate SS

You press DM, it applies a new garrote

And you get 2cp from that garrote because of ss

[candid goblet]

oh ok, and this is fine?

[limber lion]

Ye

[candid goblet]

I recorded a Assa log yesterday, but wowanalyzer is not recognizing it because dummy pull

if you are free, could you maybe check it out?

[subtle kiln]

type !log and post it there

[balmy condor]

that's not a thing bud

[subtle kiln]

is that only a sub thing? lol

[balmy condor]

it was an everywhere thing

[subtle kiln]

or the threads go away

[balmy condor]

until we got fed up with 3000000000000 threads

[subtle kiln]

awe

[balmy condor]

and got wowa working

so now everything is just wowa

[subtle kiln]

missed the patch notes for discord.

@candid goblet so don’t use !log. it’s no longer a thing.

[balmy condor]

quake was doing 6-7 log reviews a day

was hell

[subtle kiln]

I tried to help with sub ones when I saw it, figure more than just a green could poke at stuff

quake just needs to train george to do them

[cursive frost]

Did my first 20 keys as assassination the other night for BTM and was surprised at my final overall. Was only about 10% below sub

[balmy condor]

sounds about right

[cursive frost]

Granted it was a lot more work in the rotation

[candid goblet]

oh well, heres the log anyways if anyone feels like checking it out

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ymt6D3AWbKn2ZdwQ#fight=last&type=casts&source=19&view=timeline

[cursive frost]

But doing around 80k overall in a tyrannical key is more than good enough to do 20s or so.

[spice spire]

So I’m trying to get some beauty rest @candid goblet but I’ll thread it and review when I awaken

[candid goblet]

its all good 🙂 no rush

[balmy condor]

quake once again too good for the world

[gusty mirage]

people legit shit on assassination for no reason memeing that it does healer/tank dps

When in reality it’s fine, not amazing but can hold its own

[cursive frost]

Yeah my team was like woah I thought assa was bad

[gusty mirage]

It’s just 100x the effort

[cursive frost]

And my favorite “wait assa has an AOE interrupt?!?”

[gusty mirage]

For less damage

[balmy condor]

I mean that's fair, it's infinite more effort for 10-20% less damage depending on key

it is bad considering the alternatives

but it's playable

[gusty mirage]

What if I just want to earn your approval

By playing assassination

What then

[balmy condor]

you would need to play maplestory for that

unlucky

[gusty mirage]

[lyric cave]

sinx alive?

with the buffs?

[balmy condor]

whats your definition of alive

[lyric cave]

top

[balmy condor]

maybe slightly amongst the rogue specs

not overall

[lyric cave]

since the raid has alot movements

[balmy condor]

that isn't an argument for sin

[lyric cave]

will it help to be top boss dmg

b/c we were behind some other classes

[balmy condor]

based on numbers right now the rogue specs are all very close and generally middle of the pack across all the specs

[lyric cave]

good to hear

i like the switch from sinx and sub

[slim hamlet]

Don't you know it's illegal to like more than one spec?

[royal lantern]

its illegal to like things in videogames

no.fun.allowed

[rapid tundra]

So idk if I'm just bad or if its the spec, but I seem to run super low on energy a lot of the times. Like don't have any energy for abilities for 2-3 secs at a time and just have to melee

[balmy condor]

that's how the spec works

[pulsar dirge]

but more fun

[frail tiger]

Does anyone know how much of a difference there is between Blindside talent and Tiny Toxic Blade talent for the ST build? I really dislike playing with blindside, and was wondering if it was too much of a loss going Tiny Toxic Blade

[coarse bear]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[woeful meteor]

≈3,2% loss

[near valley]

Lol nice tank damage scrubs

[cunning nest]

The Tank-dps was partially true in SL. But we had excellent St dps there

Now we can decide, which is a big improvement. Still, simply worse and overly complicated in comparison to sisterspecs

[gusty mirage]

Nice healer ST damage

Hopefully the tank pulled trash on the boss so the outlaw rogues can feel like they’re contributing

[near valley]

you're just jealous of my class fantasy

[deft flicker]

Says the one dropping all class fantasy elements because the build doesn’t work otherwise

[royal lantern]

"im playing a spec based around doing many hits with my generators, and then complain aboutt having to use sinester strike"

#outlaw on DF launch

[near valley]

but ambush feels so much nicer

[quaint condor]

hit 2.5k io last night! sin the whole season

[balmy condor]

gz!

[brazen zodiac]

congrats!!!!!!!!!!!

https://tenor.com/view/kawaii-kitty-emri-cute-cutie-cat-onlyemri-gif-17288111

[uncut echo]

That's so awesome!!!

Congratulations.

🥰

[tame tangle]

i haven’t played sin in a while is shiv the toxic blade window now basically or nah

[balmy condor]

yes

you press it on cooldown

and it increases nature damage

and that's it

[tame tangle]

not worth pooling before it anymore? on st

[balmy condor]

hardly matters when the spec is 56apm

[tame tangle]

roger roger

[uncut echo]

So true and real

[spice surge]

Did sims ever show it being worth pooling

Me and seli spent like 3 tiers of bfa trying to make it show as a gain in sims but we never succeeded

[balmy condor]

what

sims have been pooling since legion

[spice surge]

Not for toxic blade/shiv no

Atleast they didnt in bfa

[winged quail]

there's no reason not to pool before it comes up, as long as you don't overcap or let dots run out

[balmy condor]

they definitely did

there's a pool condition on envenom

that got put in during like

tomb of sargeras

[tame tangle]

the difference between hitting toxic blade with no energy and just waiting a second or 2 was pretty obvious lol

[balmy condor]

and has stayed there

forever

maybe you guys couldn't find a gain in sims because it was already doing it

[spice surge]

It did the same thing regardless of when toxic blade was coming up

[balmy condor]

I mean yeh

[spice surge]

Like it would envenom > mut > mut and then toxic blade would come up

[marble hemlock]

it may have had a pooling condition, but a bunch of other shit usually took prio and we often ended up with stupid sample sequences that would envenom 1sec before TB and shit instead of pooling

was around BoD times where there was a lot of discussion on the topic in here, its when tisu and i tried fiddling with the APL but couldnt get it to work

[balmy condor]

envenom,if=combo_points>=4+talent.deeper_stratagem.enabled&(debuff.vendetta.up|debuff.toxic_blade.up|energy.deficit<=25+variable.energy_regen_combined|!variable.single_target)&(!talent.exsanguinate.enabled|cooldown.exsanguinate.remains>2)
variable,name=use_filler,value=combo_points.deficit>1|energy.deficit<=25+variable.energy_regen_combined|!variable.single_target

yeh

[tame tangle]

idk felt extremely intuitive to me to just wait a sec and have more envenoms in the window 🤷‍♂️

[balmy condor]

there's pool conditions on envenom/mut

I pulled up the ol sims

[tame tangle]

felt like shit to just press on empty

[spice surge]

Yes but they have nothing to do with toxic blade

[balmy condor]

sure they do

but whatever, was 8 tiers ago

point is, yes

[marble hemlock]

wed definitely have sims with like 1 envenom in there, when it wouldve 100% couldve fit 2 in without losing any uptime on anything, and it just didnt. obviously not a big deal, everybody knew how to play it anyway, but it always seemed odd that we couldnt figure out a way to fix it back then

and now it doesnt matter anyway

[balmy condor]

it pools

[marble hemlock]

but when you actually wanted to get 3envenom per shiv, the sim basically never got that done, 2 was max, often just 1

but yeah, it was literally almost a decade ago with agonizing poison and stuff

when envenom actually did damage

[balmy condor]

well now the issue is the spec is so fucking fast pooling cp for shiv is just a waste of effort

[tame tangle]

i just enjoyed the playstyle tbh and was curious if shiv served the similar purpose today but it sounds more similar to current sub where you are just pressing buttons on cd

[spice surge]

Double dose with 4x poisons

[marble hemlock]

ye exactly

well you can press shit on cd and pool

but its just

not really feasible

you have baiscally perma EP/envenom uptime already so

what are you gonna pool for

[balmy condor]

I can fit another envenom in seli

[brazen zodiac]

crafting!

[marble hemlock]

when we had low apm and maintaining 100% ep/envenom uptime during a 15sec KB was actually not something you could do without proper pooling, those things were important and the difference between high and medium performing players

but now its just w/e

sophic devotion proc your way to 99+ parses, enjoy

[brazen zodiac]

true

[tame tangle]

this seems common across all 3 specs now lol

[balmy condor]

it's across the whole game

[marble hemlock]

its across the whole game, yeah

[tame tangle]

that makes sense

[balmy condor]

every spec that exists is slam everything on cooldown

and you're like

[spice surge]

Tbf whenever they make something that requires even the slightest bit of pooling people just fucking hate it

[balmy condor]

85-90% of the way there

[tame tangle]

i think that’s what drew me to assassination in the first place, NOT pressing a button every global, but again yeah, this was a long time ago

[spice surge]

Theres so much complaints about sub singletarget in dungeons not being 60 apm, its insane

[marble hemlock]

theres a few specs like frostmage for example, that are seemingly designed around having perma uptime on their "core" buff, but when you dont get that due to boss patterns or transitions, the spec just fucking sucks. so theres little skill expression in maintaining high uptimes, when every class just has 2-4 debuffs/buffs that are supposed to be maintained 100%

[tame tangle]

i guess i’m weird then lol i liked it.

[marble hemlock]

the gameplay flows smoother if your important buff has high/perma uptime, but it also removes skill expression, and wow "at its best" throughout mop/wod had a lot of that with temporary buffs, whether from enchants, trinkets or class kits, and you had to play around them to get the most dps out of your class. but ig a lot of players didnt like that, so they streamlined most specs with legion and removed a shitton of those mechanics

[tame tangle]

well said

[spice surge]

Blizzard didnt like it either because it made the difference between good and bad players so wide that they had issues balancing properly

When good players were doing like 50% more damage

[marble hemlock]

yep

they just didnt tell the shadowpriest dev to tone it down for legion

and they got StM

[spice surge]

Tbf they also designed xavius to be the perfect stm boss

[marble hemlock]

but if you compare cata sub or mop/wod combat with current gameplay, its a lot faster, a lot fewer temporary buffs, and less control over when they occur

both xavius and cenarius, ye

cenarius stm was just disgusting honestly

in last phase

but ye, just an overall change in design philosophy. lots of people like it. bunch of people dont. think overall im of the opinion, that if you wanna play a game for its engaging and dynamic combat, wow is on the bottom of the list

still has the best encounter design though. but other games are catching up, and blizz will have to look at ways to innovate the game or itll struggle even more in acquiring new players, than it already does

[spice surge]

Wouldve preferred if they had some specs do it faster and some more like old ones, but it is what it is

[marble hemlock]

omega protocol in ff14 easily matches wow fights in difficulty, brelshaza/akkan in lost ark definitely match some of the best boss design in wow as well. but their content doesnt come as often, and blizz still puts out 6-10 amazing fights on a ~6month cycle, whereas other games maybe have 1 or 2 pinnacle fights like that

[spice surge]

But ye the high apm is like the main reason i dont really like sin anymore. Sub is a more enjoyable send everything no think spec for me

[haughty flicker]

I can’t really think of a tab targeting mmo today that has engaging and dynamic combat unfortunately, just doesn’t seem to be the way things are going

[oak tangle]

i disagree, wow has a fairly diverse and engaging class / spec choice

[marble hemlock]

gw2 did

gw2 was still namelocked for a bunch of skills

but also had iframe dodges and a more dynamic combat flow

[haughty flicker]

I haven’t played gw2 since the last expac came out so I may be misremembering

But combat always felt like one of its weaker points to me

[marble hemlock]

it was great for pvp

[haughty flicker]

I did like the pvp system

I wish more mmos would do something similar

[marble hemlock]

but ye overall, wow is still the best in the business for challenging encounters, but other teams have hired skilled individuals as well and are doing some great fight design now

[oak tangle]

of all the mmo's i have played the healer specs in wow are genuinely some of the best

[marble hemlock]

and the encounter design in wow can only carry the game for so long, something needs to happen on the gameplay level i feel, and 80+ apm specs aint the solution, not for me personally anyway

but thats the direction the game has been taking, now more than ever

[tame tangle]

gw2 had dodge iframes ? 👀

[marble hemlock]

agreed. its funny, cuz the namelock-gameplay works really well for healer classes, but it sucks when you target enemies 😄

[storm belfry]

“B-b-but my ultimate fights!! Those are much harder than any fight WoW could ever have “

[spice surge]

Because we aint zoomers, thats why. But on the other hand wow is a boomer game so

[runic hinge]

it's true, I'm 32 with one foot in the grave

[storm belfry]

I agree. Really any class and role is much more fun on WoW than any other mmo I’ve played.

[oak tangle]

i do agree that alot of specs are homogenised. but in a vaccum, there is still as much diversity as other games, because wow has so many more specs

most of my mmo experience outside wow was with ESO and while eso's combat is very well designed, the specs themselves are all identical with the exception that you swap out a dot with another one and press a different spammable

[storm belfry]

I think ESO is the best mmo for pvp combat.

I haven’t played it in a long time but imo it has the best pvp. Idk. Much more engaging than any other mmo I’ve played

[gray crest]

ESO combat is the worst combat system ever made

[oak tangle]

i could never get into the pvp in it cause 400 ping, rip no oce servers, but i did do vHM trials and stuff

[storm belfry]

But WoW just nails everything I like. The game is fluid and runs smooth, combat is good imo. Zones and ambient music is great. Raids are fun. End game is fun. Lots to collect.

I never liked ESO PVE content too much tbh

I liked doing the story

But that was it. The dungeons were lame to me idk

[oak tangle]

my main gripe with ESO was content cadence, wow releases about 2 tiers and 8 new dungeons between when ESO releases a 3 boss raid

[haughty flicker]

I played nightblade in eso, didn’t like the weird way you have to auto cancel to do the most damage

[storm belfry]

Yeah but eso is like a semi ff XIV. Mostly dealing w story Elements and such

So if you like story. It’s your thing ya know

[haughty flicker]

It is fun to just run around and do quests and stuff though

[gray crest]

what about the fact that combat was putting down a shit ton of aoe dots and spamming one ability over and over

[haughty flicker]

Treating it like an elder scrolls game

[oak tangle]

i mained a stamina DK, is it a suprise i played assassing?

[storm belfry]

Also I may have been biased at the time. Cause I didn’t have a computer and was the closest thing to an mmorpg I had

[haughty flicker]

Yeah that wasn’t fun either, swapping between bars to lay down as many aoes as possible

[storm belfry]

I was playing night blade w a range build mostly

[haughty flicker]

Then just spamming 1 until you have to put them down again

[gray horizon]

any lists out yet for bis crafting stuff? wowhead isnt updated yet and not seeing anything in the pinsssssssssss

[haughty flicker]

I never did much pvp though so idk how different combat was there

[storm belfry]

It’s in the pins

[gray crest]

totally forgot about bar swapping

[storm belfry]

Was like the normal combat but was fun. Very large open world pvp area w a domination vibe. Idk I liked it

[gray crest]

that was dogshit too

[oak tangle]

depended if you ran with a group or not, i remember way back in group cyrodiil you would all pop proxy det at once and rush another zerg

[gray crest]

ESO could have been the best MMO if its combat didnt totally suck ass

everything else in the game is good

[storm belfry]

Idk a lot of ppl liked the combat

[gray crest]

all those people are stupid

[storm belfry]

But it was a bit weird cause it was treated like an elder scrolls game

In third person

Okay you are weird

[oak tangle]

i really liked it's combat mechanics

[storm belfry]

Imo it’s a lot better than ff XIVs

Where you don’t have to wait 2 business days for your ability to come

[oak tangle]

i quit because there is essentially no new content or gear progression

[storm belfry]

Main thing I like about ff XIV is the music for the raids/bosses

[oak tangle]

also wow's encounter design is just better

[storm belfry]

It is

[oak tangle]

give me ESO's combat and graphics, and wow's encounter design and gear progression

[storm belfry]

I think WoW has everything outside of a real engaging story. But they have shown this expac it seems to be heading in a better direction. I mean there was more custscenes in the first half of the campaign than like all of shadowlands

I personally don’t like eso graphics

[oak tangle]

i had a 1080 and played it in 4k, it was probably the highest fidelity ive seen from an mmo

[storm belfry]

Well I was on an Xbox

But I have seen it on pc. Just reminds me of FFXIV but less bright and a Bit cleaner

[haughty flicker]

Nah just give me bdo combat and graphics in an actual game and not a 24/7 grind killing the same monsters over and over

[storm belfry]

My main gripe for a lot of mmos. Just games in general is the general movement of your character. I think WoW has it set so well. Like yeah some animations may look weird that I don’t like but the movement is the same and it’s just fluid

Lot of other games are “sliding” all over the place or just have a terrible feel

I gave up on BDO. I think the combat was so repetitive. Felt like I was doing the same 3 god of war combos for 15 hrs

But that game does visually look good to me

[oak tangle]

i disliked that there was no raids and world content, you had to summon everything in an instance

[haughty flicker]

I blame this more on the grind aspect than the combat though tbf, since the entire game is just aoe grinding you end up pressing whatever does the most aoe repeatedly

If it had actual pve content you could do more interesting stuff

[storm belfry]

Yeah I think I played monk. And I just remember rolling and then doing the same stupid combo

[grim tangle]

all MMOs suck

[oak tangle]

also i know alot of people dislike m+ but it's a massive draw for me to wow, at some point you need infinitely scaling content in the other games so you don't get bored of exceeding the skill cap

[storm belfry]

It’s my favorite form of content tbh.

I thought ff was doing something similar. Almost made me re sub. But I realized that’s not what it is so I didn’t

[tame tangle]

it’s ruined all other mmo dungeons for me

ff14 dungeons look pretty but that’s about it

[oak tangle]

it's why i think new world failed. they had dungeons at designated levels, but they incetivised playing only the one character. so you never did that content again

[tame tangle]

same with lost ark

[oak tangle]

they were great dungeons

[tame tangle]

game could’ve been so good but is so fucking bad

[haughty flicker]

i never got far in lost ark

[oak tangle]

but for $50 new world was well worth it and i got 50+ hours from it

[haughty flicker]

started the island grinding stuff when it first came out and got burnt out

never went back

combat was kind of fun though

[strange python]

Our sims are so depressing 😦