assassination

[buoyant pilot]

HAHA, okay. Well, I'm not shit thankfully. I meant more the state of sin in 10.1. Are we expecting improvements or just on copium for now?

[balmy condor]

it looked bleak all of ptr

and we didn't get much

[blazing jewel]

can you define probably

[balmy condor]

so now we wait for the week 1 tuning

and see if that does something

[royal lantern]

6%garrote dmg

10%fok

[balmy condor]

no please stop

[silk bane]

i just wanna spam fok in st again! bring back good old days

[buoyant pilot]

❤️ ty, I trust blizzard

[oak sky]

Thats only one person's good old days

[toxic night]

what about 50% improved garrote dmg its big imo

[silk bane]

thats cuz ive seen the new taletns and u havent! now each bleed increases your fok damage on the target by 5% new talent! specs savedso we spam ct in st for extra 5% and spam fok for stonk dps

[balmy condor]

oh fuck wait hold on. It's all generator damage? Who made it all generator damage? But fok is just meant to spread poisons and give cp why is it doing damage now? Mutilate? Well we can't buff it too much cause they're energy capped and spamming it anyways, so can't make that too strong. You what? You buffed garrote? But we already made half the talents garrote. Ah whatever, they'll be happy if it does damage I guess```

[balmy condor]

the key part of that sentence is "imo"

cause like

it's not

[deft flicker]

Ig frost has finger/brainicle procs to manage so maybe no real need to have resources on top of that

[oak sky]

Manage is a strong word

[deft flicker]

Yeah

[oak sky]

Frost is like the least builder spendery out of all the specs but like ice lance is basically a spender

[royal lantern]

nothing gives me more life than fighting terros, and seeing the sub rupture from @grand trail doing more dmg than my rupture, assa is trully the pinnacle of dot spec desing

god blizz pls

litearlly just % buffs

[grim jay]

It depends. You have 2 builds, one where you basically Spam icelance and one where it could be considered an icicle spender as you even hold proccs

[deft flicker]

Maybe having 1-2 specs with the “we’re drowning in stuff so you better be quick in making use of it before it goes to waste” mindset is fine, but when everyone has that it hurts

[grim jay]

OL and fury usually should be those

[deft flicker]

Yeah, fine by me

Maybe throw in a couple casters to have some variety

[drifting cosmos]

where is sin tuning

[normal olive]

[fathom swift]

I like snapshotting my bleeds

it makes me feel good to see numbers tick fast on my screen

[royal lantern]

why do you guys look at the numbers on your screen

is that why so many people wanna macro shit toghetrr

need to watch yellow Numbers?

[normal olive]

wait you guys are looking at your screen?

[fathom swift]

why else play wow than to watch big number go up

[balmy condor]

that's what maplestory is for after prog

[blazing jewel]

That was between pulls for you

[balmy condor]

well

this tier was shit

:)

[blazing jewel]

Lol

[fathom swift]

thats like half my guild but osrs

[blazing jewel]

The other rogue player in my previous guild would play osrs during raz

[static glacier]

We have nothing else, I need to know that last envenom hit for 203k

[normal olive]

i get screamed at for playing hearthstone during trash

[grand trail]

Sorry mate 😂

[spice spire]

Give me frost shards back.
Since we just care about the random numbers

[blazing jewel]

That’s cursed

[fathom swift]

whispyr can u get assa buffed again pls, I would really prefer to play it than sub on prog

I can give you complaining tips if you need them

[static glacier]

Nah, don’t turn us into boomkins

Once we compromise our integrity and start gaslighting there’s no going back

[balmy condor]

I can't get my own mental buffed enough to log into the game

[drifting cosmos]

join the unsub bench

[fathom swift]

😦

[spice spire]

I can buff your mental, king

[royal lantern]

i blame blizz bigbrain dmg distribution there

[wispy orchid]

does something give cdr on exsang

[royal lantern]

no

[wispy orchid]

ok then im just crazy tired

[royal lantern]

and thank god it doesng

[wispy orchid]

[royal lantern]

way to many things have cdr these days

legit all specs have cdr somewhere

[normal olive]

doesn't the holy paladin winter thing do?

or was that only dm

[wispy orchid]

i was hitting the dumym so long without realizing that i literally thought i had a cdr talent on my exsang

[wispy orchid]

thats cuz theyre too pussy to just give everyone 2mins

[ember gyro]

in the faq it talks about Exsang snapshotting haste and for us to use all of our haste steroids right before that

are there reliable haste buffs on CD that we have? or is this talking about a trinket that might give haste

[spice spire]

Trinket that may give haste

[ember gyro]

or is it not even something to consider, as haste isn't something we prioritize

fair enough

[marble hemlock]

Mostly about stuff like bloodlust and pi. Not really something we can play around atm

[spice spire]

Nothing currently is worth thinking about snapshotting.
Now if galecaller’s enters the fray

It’s

[ember gyro]

is Assa a PI candidate?

[balmy condor]

If you have a 4th priest yeh

[ember gyro]

just fill it with priests

[balmy condor]

It’s competitive with mage

Which is to say if you have an unholy dk and a lock you’re not getting pi

Or an evoker

They’re better too

[ember gyro]

oddly, because unholy isn't doing to great in 10.1, I'm making the switch to rogue

[balmy condor]

Unholy isn’t doing great in 10.1 so you decided to downgrade to rogue

That’s quite a move

[ember gyro]

we need a rogue and im RL

not like i do damage

[balmy condor]

What do you need a rogue for

[vestal wren]

atrophic ofc

[ember gyro]

the dr is nice

[balmy condor]

Fuu had that one loaded in the cannon man

[ember gyro]

is the dr not nice?

[vestal wren]

rogue spot secured, atrophic 🚀 to the 🌕

[balmy condor]

I mean it’s completely unnoticeable

I’m sure it does something

But it’s not like anyone cares

[marble hemlock]

Unless you're Omega minmaxing damage reduction and healing CDs, it'll not be noticeable.

[ember gyro]

does shiv double it? or strengthen it briefly?

[balmy condor]

No

[vestal wren]

it helps in early progression, the problem is it isn't just "everything does less"
but efficiency will highly depend on how the encounter is designed

[ember gyro]

ah

[balmy condor]

And thank god it doesn’t

[marble hemlock]

And it's really only the top 3-5 guilds that need that level of optimization of defensives and healing

[balmy condor]

Could you imagine needing to hold shiv for a raid mechanic

That would be Uber cringe

[ember gyro]

i mean, i could go frost

[marble hemlock]

You mean like holding shiv for a soothe?

[ember gyro]

but if i muck up breath

[balmy condor]

Yes, Uber cringe

Or like holding vanish for a targeted spell cancel

[ember gyro]

my biggest issue is that dk doesnt bring anything to a raid utility wise

[balmy condor]

?????????????

But rogue does?

You guys got amz

[ember gyro]

but it sorta sounds like rogue doesnt either

[balmy condor]

Instantly better than anything you could ever do on rogue

[ember gyro]

dps amz isnt great

and we have a bdk

[balmy condor]

It could do nothing more than tickle my balls and it would be better than rogue

[ember gyro]

i was operating under the assumption that the dr was important

and doubled with shiv

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[shrewd night]

It's nice. Important is a wild stretch.

[balmy condor]

We were under that assumption too when they said rogue needs raid utility

And then they gave us that steaming pile of shit

And said hey look

You have it now

[vestal wren]

better bring 2 rogues tho

atrophic and mind numbing

[balmy condor]

2 useless utilities = 1 decent utility?

Need to double check my math

[vestal wren]

better than nothing ^^

[gusty mirage]

A negative times a negative is a positive

Quick maths

[shrewd night]

[balmy condor]

So true

[ember gyro]

hmmm

maybe I stay dk

though I like the ER minigame assass has

[balmy condor]

But I’m playing sin and sub and I’m not feeling very positive, so idk oxi I think it’s back to the drawing board

[gusty mirage]

Remember how mad everyone was when assassination was the only spec to get atrophic

[vestal wren]

tbh rogue is fine, we just like to view it a bit more negative atm due to tuning

[gusty mirage]

Simpler times really

[ember gyro]

well the unholy dk discord is doom central

[balmy condor]

Remember how hyped we were for carnage

[gusty mirage]

We coped our way to the moon

[balmy condor]

Bro carnage, sin m+ is saved

[ember gyro]

I gave warrior a shot, didn't much care for it and I lose IQ when I play ranged

[gusty mirage]

[gusty mirage]

???

Aren’t they off the tail end of what our DK called “unnecessary buffs but I’ll take them”

[balmy condor]

Well

[ember gyro]

so we got crazy buffs like a week ago

[balmy condor]

They’re getting obliterated in 10.1

[gusty mirage]

Good

MFers doing 600k openers

Let me cry for them real quick

[balmy condor]

I have no idea why it got buffs this week though

[ember gyro]

but once 10.1 hits, we are going to decline while others rise

yeah it was kinda strange

[balmy condor]

Our dk was doing over 100k on terros this week

For literally no reason

[gusty mirage]

Because Jimmy the intern has no idea what he’s doing

[ember gyro]

we largely ignore one of our core mechanics

[gusty mirage]

Shadow priest on it’s like 18th rework

They finally get shadow in a good spot

“Hey guys let’s rework it again!”

“Brilliant idea Jimmy!”

[ember gyro]

yeah, unholy is in a very similar spot concept wise as shadow priest

but doesnt' get the spriest love

[gusty mirage]

Who has the balancing dart board meme on hand

@spice spire ?

[spice spire]

Uh

[gusty mirage]

Nothings gonna bring me down today, I get my morning coffee again

[spice spire]

I don’t actually

And jealous

[gusty mirage]

We play rogue in 10.1 boys

Things will work out

TRUST

[spice spire]

Amen brother

Needed that

[gusty mirage]

Worst case we all play mushroom game with @balmy condor

Change server to Fungleholdt

And frankly, that’s a pretty good plan B

[balmy condor]

Hell yeah bruder

[marble hemlock]

[scenic sky]

But its already 14.36 😮

[gusty mirage]

Whatever you say person from the future

[scenic sky]

😊

[balmy condor]

It’s 5:30

[reef ginkgo]

It's 13:37

[scenic sky]

No way! are you from the future of my future !?

[balmy condor]

No I’m in your past

[scenic sky]

I knew that!

[gusty mirage]

That’s pretty leet

[storm belfry]

Some guy on Twitter still constantly complaining about the state of shadow priest

[gusty mirage]

Publik?

He always complains

Nothing new

[storm belfry]

I wasn’t gonna call anyone out lol but yeah

[gusty mirage]

Still better than Azor

At least he doesn’t paywall shit behind a patreon

[storm belfry]

Definitely the kinda person you can’t please at all

[marble hemlock]

I mean

I kinda get it though

Imagine you finally optimized how to play your spec and got some good QoL and spec improvements last patch

And then they rework it again. For the 5th time. In 3 years.

[gusty mirage]

Yeah I can see his frustration

Esp cause the rework doesn’t do anything significant except make them reoptimize their shit for the 3rd time in one full tier lol

[storm belfry]

It seemed like it got good feedback this last go round

[royal lantern]

well, can optimize for the 5th rework again

[raven merlin]

do we have a similar item like puzzlebox with a shit ton of mastery burst in s2?

[gusty mirage]

No

We have an on use with a ton of primary stat that decays

[raven merlin]

yy seems ok for me

[fading wigeon]

Eid Mubarak

[gusty mirage]

Ty

[grim jay]

I mean, the new design is hit or miss

So you can be angry about that aswell

[pseudo hamlet]

please tell me it's 2 min cd without casting time

[raven merlin]

3 mins

[main blaze]

5 times in 3 years vs 1 time in the past 7 years

[gloomy knoll]

Does it randomly give your healer mana

[fading wigeon]

It's off the first boss in halls

[unborn geode]

its a mastery trinket and on use is main stat for 20 seconds and 3 min cd

[unborn geode]

how's the new class trinket working... good/bad/average

[glacial arch]

hows assa looking st wise?

[woeful meteor]

bad

or not particularly good

[wide ridge]

when sin is bad at st you know things are fucked up

our major cd literally affects 1 target

[fading wigeon]

We can doom a couple of weeks after raid. We dont know what's going to happen yet

[grim tangle]

I can doom whenever I want

[burnt latch]

Happy eid to all my homies celebrating tonight

[subtle tundra]

What's an eid

[burnt latch]

End of Ramadan

[subtle tundra]

Oh

Mashallah

[tacit otter]

ZUCKERFEST

i hate being german

[gusty mirage]

ty young herbert

much appreciated friend

[oak sky]

Oxi made it

[burnt latch]

❤️

[brazen zodiac]

💃

[serene fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/thaddäus-german-hello-hallo-deutsch-nachdenken-gif-13464533

[grim jay]

not with 10.1 set

you get that insane damage buff afterwards. so good

[echo heath]

Maybe we would have gotten changes if people didn't run the fucking dev off our server

[oak pivot]

Wait with the 10.1 set are we taking crimson tempest in ST? or no

Plus, kingsbane after Deathmark window for big dps?? Or is kingsbane still dead

[echo heath]

Kingsbane is dead

[oak pivot]

40% nature dmg with 10.1, 4pc i mean

[echo heath]

Dtb is still the stronger more boring option with the four piece

[oak pivot]

Lame. Add me to the doom party then

[subtle tundra]

That you won't get in kb cause you want kb in dm

Not after

[oak pivot]

Ahhh, true. For the double application

[wide ridge]

he did?

[silk bane]

@gusty mirage do u know what this is?

[gusty mirage]

Yes

[gusty mirage]

He’s still here?

He literally typed in the poe channel last week

[storm belfry]

We got devs in here

[gusty mirage]

We didn’t run anybody off despite the idiots trying their best to flame the devs

[silk bane]

litearlly the only reason i liked ramadan as a kid

this shit was busssin bussing on god

[gusty mirage]

Diabetes on a styrofoam plate

[silk bane]

and for some reason we didnt have it year round

sadge

[gusty mirage]

[silk bane]

dude u get some tea

and u smash these

and youre lit for a year

[empty hinge]

guys i have secret information

assa buffs next reset

dont tell any1 tho

[spice surge]

Tiny toxic blade now buffs shiv by 500% 600%

[north frost]

not enough

[spark cloud]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[storm belfry]

[north frost]

make exsanguinate great again

seriously though, how bad are we in 10.1? should i gear another character now?

[royal lantern]

how much % will FoK get?

[silk bane]

fok increases the damage of next fok by 10% stacking to 20 times! we are bingoooo chilingoooo

[empty hinge]

Maybe 30 seconds exsanguinate

If you want make exsang decent again

Idk

or make it a 2 minute cd

so it lines up with vanish+dm

[silk bane]

i wish whipsyr was here so he could have his rant of : what do you think should be the exsang %bleed faster for it to not be broken if it was a 2 min cd huh?

I just wanna peepoPopcorn when he goes on a rant

[royal lantern]

no

just no

best way to make exsang decent again

is removing it

[silk bane]

everytime u fok, u have a 5% chance to exsang your bleeds. I AM A COOOOK

[royal lantern]

and everytime a exsang bleed ticks, you have a 10% chance to fok

[rocky ruin]

I think they don't know what to do with exsang

[royal lantern]

well, no shit

[tacit otter]

thats something i can get behind

[royal lantern]

its a ability that was a 45sec cd that was stronger than everything else, got reduced to 3min cd and 20% less effect and is STILL a must pick

and at the same time plays like shit

its 10/10 of shit design

[steel spire]

Assas now range

[empty hinge]

every time you press envenom your bleeds tick faster and faster

and it stacks

up to like

5 stacks

[silk bane]

nah nah legit though this is a banger. CT increases the damage of your next CT by 30% stacking up to 5 times. each stack costs 50% more energy or somethign so that at 5 stacks it takes your entire energy bar

this shit will legit fix our aoe

so u cant spam it and need to get bleeds going ot recover energy enough so that u cna get massive CT.

[storm belfry]

[royal lantern]

or, we use CT in single target again

🙂

[steel ridge]

its not energy efficient on ST then

[oak sky]

Nah if ct costs a bunch of energy its bad in st

[royal lantern]

its somewhat funny that many people dont realise that even smaller CT buffs result in singletarget CT again

[oak sky]

Ct having a high energy cost is the truth

[steel ridge]

its only energy efficient in aoe if you stack it like armin described

[empty hinge]

i liked the CT st

with vendetta playstyle

[steel ridge]

but idk, that sounds like a fix with extra steps

just make it scale with target count

[empty hinge]

but im a degen

[royal lantern]

and i like C&B torture, wont force it onto others

(thats a joke btw)

[silk bane]

nope, because it wouldnt be energy efficient on ST. u cant maintain it because u dont have enough energy regen

[empty hinge]

so w/e im given i play

[wary ice]

Good save

[wispy orchid]

if i override a dot after deathmark do i lose the dmg boost

im so fucking confused

(ive been up 20hrs trying to reset my sleep sry)

[storm belfry]

Go to sleep ally

[wispy orchid]

nO T You

NO

[storm belfry]

Yes

Yes it is me

Hello again

[wispy orchid]

[storm belfry]

[wispy orchid]

ur EVERYWEHRE

I CANNOT ESCAPE

[storm belfry]

I said that to cmeow

[wispy orchid]

ok then u help me

[storm belfry]

Look you’ll only find me in DG and here really

Sometimes warlock

[wispy orchid]

u r me but cyon

[storm belfry]

Twins

[wispy orchid]

🫦

[gusty mirage]

[storm belfry]

[wispy orchid]

ok so answer my q

[empty hinge]

hello oxi

[wispy orchid]

dont ego me

[gusty mirage]

deathmark just duplicates the bleeds on the mob

so when deathmark expires the duped bleed goes bye bye

so refreshing a rupture in pandemic after DM expires won't hurt any

[wispy orchid]

oh ok

wait

after

u lost me

[oak sky]

Play normal during dm

[empty hinge]

oxi what do u think about my great plan making exsang good

[gusty mirage]

idk I didn't read it

[wispy orchid]

bless

[storm belfry]

You can let garrote fall off if from a stealth or vanish garrote in dm

[oak sky]

And exsang fall off

[storm belfry]

But like agreon said you just play normal really

[gusty mirage]

the only bleeds you have to worry about overwriting are the exsanguinated bleeds, and the garrote after your vanish

[storm belfry]

If talking during exsang you let both rupture and garrote fall off

[gusty mirage]

everything else is just business as usual

[wispy orchid]

is it worth tracking like feral snapshotting

[empty hinge]

making it either a 30sec cd or a 2 minute

[storm belfry]

But if talking regular dm like in keys for instance I just let stealth garrote fall off usually in dm

[gusty mirage]

why would exsanguinate need a buff

it's strong as is

at 80% speed/3min

[empty hinge]

not a buff

[gusty mirage]

reducing the cd

would be a buff

[empty hinge]

just a rework in timers

[oak sky]

Thats a buff tho

[gusty mirage]

more casts of an ability = buff

[empty hinge]

and it wont be 80%

obviously

[gusty mirage]

okay

I'll play ball ig

go ahead

[empty hinge]

but currently you hold it

for a minute

which is not fun

[gusty mirage]

yes, unless you'd lose a cast

because it's more damage paired with deathmark

[alpine latch]

If you reduce the timers, it now fits better across more fight lengths. It would be a buff overall reducing the timers

[oak sky]

Cant wait for 12.0.7 when the rework finally drops

[storm belfry]

Lmao

[oak sky]

Blizz keeps moving the goalposts back

So

[empty hinge]

yes

[gusty mirage]

I mean

I'mma be real with you

if you get it to 2 minutes

it's getting giga nerfed

to make up for that synergy

and if you take it down to 30s

it'll be even worse

they would have to utterly destroy it

esp after the 3 mincd came at the tail end ofa 45s cd

[empty hinge]

how much % was it when it was a 45 sec cd

[oak sky]

Crazy to think that they nerfed from 45s to 3 mins and 80% speed up and its still a bis talent

💀

[oak sky]

100

And the talent was like 10%

Or something ridiculous

[gusty mirage]

15%

it was more than all the capstones

[oak sky]

Yeah

But thats fine

[gusty mirage]

they could've just swapped IC and old exsang

and it would've been fine

tbh

[oak sky]

Ehhhhhhh

[gusty mirage]

old exsang as a capstone would've been legit

[alpine latch]

Are we still waiting for the 10.1 updates to hit simcraft?

[oak sky]

Old exsang after scent?

Also being unfun

[gusty mirage]

move scent down

[oak sky]

Only thing to wait for is tier sets rn

[gusty mirage]

scent's meh as fuck anyway

[oak sky]

Scent only does something in aoe

[gusty mirage]

koji's still working on implementing the tier set

gonna be a bit

[oak sky]

Scent is basically part of ic tho

[gusty mirage]

because for some reason blizzard stopped putting shit into the spell data

[alpine latch]

All good - just waiting to do research til we get closer

[gusty mirage]

so now it has to be manually done

[limber walrus]

what updates? Lol

[oak sky]

Like ic+ scent can basically be considered a 4 point talent

[alpine latch]

I'm currently building a WoWAudit alternative for my guild

[oak sky]

Something to do with the weak aura stuff maybe?

[empty hinge]

im curious after the outlaw fix and the sub nerfs and since the raid is mainly st is assa still the play

probably

i just hope the bomb trinket survives

2 resets

although for assa the halls of infusion might be good

[oak sky]

I mean i dunno i think rogue just isnt that great at st

[empty hinge]

yes but you still need 1 at least

for the poison

and theres some soaks next raid

not a lot

but a decent amount

i also wana cope that rogue is good

so let me cope

maybe the hidden assa buffs are coming next reset

[cursive frost]

We gonna get big dick tuning week 2 and be juiced

[gaunt moat]

Every patch notes we stray further away from god.

[pure tide]

https://tenor.com/view/first-time-gif-25170521

[uncut echo]

Bc we don't need buffs rn until we get actual testing

:)

[high iron]

Isnt assa quit good on st on ptr rn?

[uncut echo]

No

It's the worst spec

[earnest remnant]

unplayable infact

[marble hemlock]

[earnest remnant]

[gusty mirage]

nice flair

[high iron]

I smell lies

[gusty mirage]

@marble hemlock remember when we had relevant flair

[earnest remnant]

https://tenor.com/view/raccoon-steal-stealing-yoink-seeya-gif-10550534

[gusty mirage]

[earnest remnant]

me spreading my lies and deceit

[gusty mirage]

if you play assassination Ion shows up to your house and punches you in the face

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/eating-the-pet-collective-yummy-popcorn-raccoon-gif-16894090

[earnest remnant]

found a raccoon gif that reminds me of outlaw players

https://tenor.com/view/raccoon-licks-gif-21595740

[gusty mirage]

[royal lantern]

you forget that he also kicks your dog

[gusty mirage]

and if you don't have a dog he kicks your mom

[royal lantern]

AND makes your socks wet

[royal lantern]

i cant read that

[earnest remnant]

and if you dont have a mom, your pet Chinchilla

[royal lantern]

red on blue is not good man

[bold drum]

S tier

[gusty mirage]

missing DH with outlaw and sub

[brazen zodiac]

i was gonna say

i really had to get my glasses for that one

oxi!!!!!!!

[visual hemlock]

made it smaller and it became hard to read xD

[gusty mirage]

[marble hemlock]

there you go

wont need an ophthalmologist after reading the meme

[royal lantern]

tbf

can put ww with assa there

[gusty mirage]

no

ww is in the core of the earth

prot pally is 1 more buff away from beating them in ST

[wary ice]

WW is the true gamba spec if we're being honest

you're just gamba on whether or not the bugs associated with it improve your damage by way too fucking much or not

[gusty mirage]

maybe in 11.0 they'll realize no one likes SEF

because it's a buggy piece of shit

[wary ice]

I like SEF in concept

[gusty mirage]

yeah SEF is cool in concept

[wary ice]

in execution, i would be ok with it not being in the game :^)

[gusty mirage]

but they can't seem to fix it

[royal lantern]

its also that they legit dont know what to do with ww lol

like

why is ww based around summoning shit now

[deft flicker]

Raising popularity of monk by incorporating elements from other popular classes (hunter)

[royal lantern]

SEF is in the game for the same reason frost mage has water elemental: its a old wc3 thing that is "iconic"

but like, frost mage NEVER uses its elemental and always goes lonely winter(wich is also bad imo)

meanwhile WW is forced to accept the janky mess that is SEF

[tacit otter]

SEF is what?

[royal lantern]

Storm Earth Fire

the main cd

[woeful meteor]

the clones

[tacit otter]

not familiar with the acronym

ty:)

[royal lantern]

WoW and confusing acronyms

name a more iconic duo

[gusty mirage]

wow and tooltip errors

wow and questionable balancing

[deft flicker]

Rock and Stone

[gusty mirage]

warlock and being top tier

[royal lantern]

those are features at this point wdym

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/rock-and-stone-deep-rock-galactic-gif-25114877

[uncut echo]

ROCK AND STONE

[deft flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/deep-rock-galactic-rock-and-stone-gif-22047860

Rock and Stone yeeeeeah!!

[versed mica]

https://tenor.com/view/deep-rock-galactic-deep-rock-rock-and-stone-dwarves-beards-gif-21509113

DID SOMEBODY SAY

[deft flicker]

What’s your favourite Abyss Bar beer btw??

[flint tusk]

Rogue now officially the only class to not have any tuning in 2 patches.
They remembered Mages, they'll remember us eventually

[pseudo hamlet]

They seriously did buff the unholy? lol

Ok, it's PTR 10.1

[uncut echo]

Unholy needs the buffs

Their current tier is like close to 22% of their damage

[uncut echo]

They just tuned sub tier

[gaunt moat]

They also made a change in sin set before.
But that's not base abilities.

A lot of people still consider rogue to be one of the best classes in the game.

[visual hemlock]

seperate dtb and kingsbane so we can play both 🙏

[gaunt moat]

I wouldn't expect tuning.

And defintely too late for talent changes

[royal lantern]

we litearlly just had a big mage buff

bruh

[gaunt moat]

Mage is not rogue last time i checked

[raven knoll]

check again

[gaunt moat]

It's been widely stated everywhere that mages need buffs.
If you mention rogues need them, you get resistance.

[upper trail]

youll always get resistance

[flint tusk]

Yeh i don't see changing the borrowed power on gear to be class tuning as it disappears the next patch. just like how silly powerful this ring is

but yeh Rogues can NEVER be Decent/average/good as some group will always complain. until we're considered "bad"

Seems there is just this inbuilt hatred for rogues that i've not seen other classes have? maybe just the way i see things

[silk bane]

my guy, this tuning is also just for this patch, wym it disappears next patch LUL

like the ring was technically a buff to sub/outlaw in 10.07

the new enchant is a buff, since it also allows u to replace cowl

this games complex, many things work together to make your spec what it is

[night delta]

years of PvP stigma sadly

[gaunt moat]

I don't think it's "hate" for rogues.
People just concieve rogue as very strong, even when data shows otherwise

[runic hinge]

Reddit argues subcreation tier lists for m+ is what we need to balance off of and rogue actually needs nerfs. Saw that this past week.

[pseudo hamlet]

Reddit

[vapid sierra]

this

we were busted

much more balanced now

[simple stratus]

We had our good 2 weeks start of tier

[thorn fjord]

Oh snap no slow mode

We're maturing!

[night delta]

maturing, or losing last traces of hope

[thorn fjord]

Tomato tomato

Confirmed that i wont be DK next tier today though.. Will continue the Rogue train

[silk bane]

sorry to hear that, I was told I can play fire instead

[light knoll]

At the end of the day if you are not playing on top 50 guild it doesn’t matter

[thorn fjord]

Thanks for that

[night delta]

one of our guildmates legit wants to get into rogue, I was like "what's wrong with you ?" but then I remembered he was havoc dh

[thorn fjord]

Our Havoc was trying to go lock but we had too many... Then said rogue and we already have 2 including me... Now he's playing Hunter lol

but he REALLY didnt want to play DH another tier

said it was like eating glass

[night delta]

yeah when I feel like complaining I just try to think of who has it even worse

[thorn fjord]

my mind always defaults to SV

[oak sky]

L

[night delta]

and even with their hot new buffs, mage still is in a very sorry state

[thorn fjord]

I dont think so

[night delta]

with fire and frost having build variety dead on arrival since 10.0

[thorn fjord]

I think Mage is in a solid position

[night delta]

and arcane being horrendously obscure still

[thorn fjord]

The buffs were pretty significant imo

[silk bane]

have u played surv tho? idk man i lowkey have a blast playing surv. a little clunky with cooldowns litearlly being a dps loss if u use them together but u get used to it lul

[night delta]

I was more thinking gameplay and enjoyment wise

like, improved combust got buffed over its deader-than-dead counterpart

and for frost, still no sign of ever making glacial spike good

[thorn fjord]

Why do mages always want to run GS

i hate that button personally lolol

[cold spoke]

its like 2 people making the entire game they dont have time for everything

[night delta]

why do boys go "kamehameha" when watching dragon ball

for my friend who now runs evoker, GS frost mage was the height of self-indulgence

just cooming billion-damage spikes all fight

flexing -15% on psychus in one frickin spell

but now all of it is a distant memory... at least we could play a bit with DTB or KB builds at launch

[minor gate]

there was a DH that had it macro to where every time he went demon form he yelled "ITS MORPHIN TIME"

[thorn fjord]

I have /moo macro'd to SB DM and ADR lol

[spice surge]

Instamute material

[cold spoke]

exsang changes 10.2

or next xpac

or never

[royal lantern]

never

exsang is a state of mind

[cold spoke]

true

[oak sky]

or 10.1.5 or 10.1.7 or 12.0 or 17.6

blizzard is very good at communcation these days

[silk bane]

my guy they got like 4.5 devs working there dont be mean.

also idk, realz has been very very very very very chatty in dh discord

we just lost realz and thats why we're dooming

we just miss our boi

[cold spoke]

yeah dhs are crazy happy with their changes

[fallen charm]

yo guys, anyone have a good plater for pvp?

[echo heath]

Mages got buffed and Rogues aren't dooming this server into slow mode? We must collectively be in the acceptance stage of grief

[bronze pike]

no theyre not?

like at all

cause the changes ultimately mean nothing

[cobalt hemlock]

doom inspection

is this server dooming enough?

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-logo-doom-video-game-logo-gif-14624225

[cobalt hemlock]

we are next in the line boys

[wary ice]

Torn between copium were next boys and dooming no changes

[spice spire]

[silk bane]

duality of man

[viscid spear]

Mage calling, hang in there

[drifting cosmos]

If we can get like half of what mage got

Of attention

[sweet dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-doom-guy-twerk-gif-25604234

The Doom Shaker

[uncut echo]

Doom quaker

[oak sky]

ALOO

[viscid spear]

Outlaw gets buffed a great deal
Sub gets some positive tweaks to the 2pc
Assassination gets buffs for talents they don't use but also buffs to their ST
Guess the Mage spec equivalents

[night delta]

you forgot "assassination gets DTB buffed to be even more out of reach of KB"

[dull cloak]

how nice would it be if kb is baseline

[royal lantern]

i mean, i would be happy

just be glad about all buffs lol

[oak sky]

i mean thats not really how the game works anymore though

generally speaking only core rotational abilities are baseline now

[royal lantern]

i mean, they allready changed their "new talent tree" philosophy not even 3months into the expac for some specs lol

with warrior and ret paladin having different working talents for some spec in the class tree iirc

[oak sky]

what about that

says that kingsbane being baseline is realistic

[royal lantern]

nah, thats not realistic

KB beeing more build around instead of a capstone would be realistic

[oak sky]

yeah

[royal lantern]

like, KB beeing more of a middle point like DM

[strange python]

We're not next.

Rogue looks good on logs, which is misleading, and the community thinks we're good.

[royal lantern]

by that logic mage would get nothing aswell lol

cus mage ALSO looks good on logs

[strange python]

Every tuning patch came to a flood of comments of "mage?!?!?!?!?!?!"

[royal lantern]

and just got buffed into beeing OP as hell

like, fire will absolutely dominate now

[strange python]

Mage looks super mediocre on logs

[oak sky]

thats definitely a possible design direction that won't happen

💀

[strange python]

And the community was pushing for mage buffs.

[royal lantern]

dmg was never really the problem for mage at all, and they just buffed it all for no reason

[runic hinge]

I wish I could play kb

[strange python]

Tbh until the community is on our side it'll always be a problem

[royal lantern]

i wish i could play dn

[high iron]

xd

[uncut echo]

No one wsnts rogue buffed

Because of their prevelance in m+

They hate that we're made meta due to shroud and utility.

Warlocks abhor rogue players.

Which is comical as fuck

[gusty mirage]

you just don't get it

[spice surge]

Algeth’ar Puzzle Box (Trinket) on-use effect duration has been increased to 30 seconds (was 20 seconds) and its Mastery bonus has been decreased by 38%.

[gusty mirage]

awww shucks

[cerulean walrus]

[gusty mirage]

I have to use my 424 grieftorch instead?

https://tenor.com/view/manatee-rainbow-nature-joke-funny-gif-5660562

[cerulean walrus]

Damn unfortunate

[gusty mirage]

not the rubicks cube man

ANYTHING BUT THAT

[royal lantern]

cant wait for the next unholy dk buff now

[gusty mirage]

I'm not even going to vendor it

[royal lantern]

cus they will again make some shit up how they are UNPLAYABLE without it

[gusty mirage]

I'm going to delete it

[royal lantern]

[gusty mirage]

fuck that trinket

they just nerfed uhdk

[marble hemlock]

i like how

[gusty mirage]

didn't they?

[marble hemlock]

i didnt get a grieftorch cuz i thought id be using puzzle+harlans anyway

during prog

GUESS NOT HAHAHAXD

[gusty mirage]

get back to raid prison seli

[royal lantern]

imagine having a grieftorch

xD

[gusty mirage]

oh

[marble hemlock]

i mean i have a heroic one

[spice surge]

Well the 421 puzzlebox was looking to be the literal bis trinket for unholy

[gusty mirage]

they reduced gargoyle strike damage

[marble hemlock]

but i said i can sit for other people on diurna cuz i dont "need"424 grief

[gusty mirage]

unlucky

everythingg else was buffed

[marble hemlock]

theyll just nerf grieftorch too, dw

its like

[spice surge]

So it makes sense to nerf it, but also unlucky to be collateral

[marble hemlock]

mechagon trinket thingy

[royal lantern]

🙂

yeha same

[marble hemlock]

grief would be too strong

for some encounters

that require burst damage

[royal lantern]

but the difference bettwen heroic and mythic torch is.....yeeeeeehaaaa.........

[marble hemlock]

so theyll nerf it

[gusty mirage]

well mechagon trinket was a lot easier to get than a mythic grieftorch

[marble hemlock]

fair

but still

id be surprised if they keep grieftorch this way

historically, on-use damage trinkets like this were super useful for multiple tiers

cuz on demand damage just happens to be very important

[gusty mirage]

I hope they do

[spice surge]

They made another one for next tier though, but it doesnt reset on deaths

And its not as good in general

[gusty mirage]

then I get to have my damage profile mimic my will to live

very flat

[royal lantern]

im somewhat sure that they will remove that part at some point during WFR

cus some degen "sacrifice people for torch" strat comes up again

[spice surge]

Very likely ye

[royal lantern]

or just nuke the dmg into nothing cus its a old trinket

[oak sky]

doesnt blizzard like carryover for prog

[gusty mirage]

sucks for them

uhdk exists

[oak sky]

i cant wait to be a udk

[gusty mirage]

pre-nerf

KEK

[oak sky]

im gonna say that

dk gets nerfed

just because i decided to hop on

then rogue gets buffed

[gusty mirage]

good

can you reroll mage after

ty

[oak sky]

and then i have to play rogue anyway

[gusty mirage]

make the rounds

[oak sky]

i actually cant reroll mage we have 3

[bronze pike]

i have another sin suggestion

[oak sky]

its bad dont type it out

[bronze pike]

since mages are a hot topic today

you know how sin is reliant on poisons right?

[gusty mirage]

you might not be the hero we need, but you're the hero we deserve

[bronze pike]

lets make a fire magic poison that does half the damage of instant poison

but heres the kicker

you can "active the poison" by pressing it again to make it do more damage after a cast time

[gusty mirage]

this is me rn:

https://tenor.com/view/kill-me-drink-bleach-gif-22890796

[bronze pike]

the cast time is 2.5 seconds to make it balance

[gusty mirage]

PLS

[bronze pike]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1098273695186821201.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

your welcome, hire me blizzard

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/water-spray-stop-sprinkle-water-gif-11895255

[cerulean walrus]

https://tenor.com/view/spray-bottle-cat-spray-bottle-spray-bottle-meme-loop-gif-25594440

[bronze pike]

hate me cause yall aint me\

[oak sky]

https://tenor.com/view/but-heres-the-kicker-cat-gif-26549137

[sweet dawn]

Who let bro cook?

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/flyer-the-heres-but-polynomers-gif-26406778

[bronze pike]

yall dont like that one huh?

i got another

lets make a Frostmagic poison that does half the damage of instant poison
but heres the kicker
you can "active the poison" byholding the button down to make it do more damage after a cast time

like devokers

:)

[spice spire]

lil bro is not allowed to cook anymore

[cerulean walrus]

Yeah but how about this

An Arcane magic poison tha-

[runic hinge]

Does it do half the damage of instant poison?

[cerulean walrus]

It does

But you can press a button to activate the poison

[runic hinge]

BRUH

[drifting cosmos]

🤨I mean, how do we actually save sin aoe? Without a total overhaul

[cerulean walrus]

You don't

[drifting cosmos]

back to “sin not meant to do aoe” probably easier

[worldly oasis]

Imagine a poison that deals aoe damage when the target takes damage from a bleed

[oak pivot]

make crimson tempest more front loaded and less of a dot to save aoe?

[balmy condor]

So black powder

[uncut echo]

Wild take

[oak pivot]

basically black powder. make it work before we make it unique, i say

[uncut echo]

Nah

[oak pivot]

plz T_T

[uncut echo]

No

[oak pivot]

ok

[uncut echo]

I'd rather them meld sin and sub together

[regal sable]

heres an idea

why dont

we get coffee together sometime

[oak pivot]

oh wow thatd be nice

[uncut echo]

Getting my plane ticket

My life in shambles anyway fuck it we ball

[dusky granite]

Tbh, I would be cool with Sin having the second Deeper Stratagem and moving a couple talents / combining Arterial Precision with the other Shiv talent no one ever takes.

Otherwise, just outplay how bad it is 🤷🏼‍♂️

[sweet dawn]

My guildies praying on my downfall cus the rogue tuning is ass atm, my response "I'll make it work"

[oak sky]

[eager solstice]

Yea I had the same talk with my raid lead. Need changes or I’ll warn the bench

[royal lantern]

where do you guys raid lmao

limit?

[sweet dawn]

No no my guildies just know the tuning is shit

I wont get benched

[echo heath]

RIP puzzle box

[simple violet]

Whats the deal with assassination? It's been at the bottom for months and blizzard hasn't improved it at all and it appears there are no plans to improve it either.

[spice spire]

[somber fractal]

yep radio silence even after we were told that exsang was getting a rework for 10.1. at this point if you care about your numbers in raid over playing the spec you enjoy, then sin probably isnt it

[spice spire]

We were not told it was getting a rework for 10.1

[somber fractal]

yes we were

[spice spire]

We were told that something would be done soonish.

10.1 was never said

[somber fractal]

the post said 10.1

[spice spire]

Show

[simple violet]

Can you find the link?

[gaunt moat]

They just forgot, happens. Like you forget where your keys are

[simple violet]

Mind you, the spec needs more than just a rework on one ability

[somber fractal]

the patch was extremely rushed due to D4 release timing. we are probably just collateral

[gaunt moat]

You're implying there was intention to do change assassination

[somber fractal]

sin should be the single target spec imo, but if thats it's identity then it shouldnt be sitting in the middle of the pack behind outlaw or sub most the time

[gaunt moat]

I don't think they have intention of doing that.
it's number one on heroic dps.

[simple violet]

Disagree. I'd like all 3 specs to have a ST and AOE build

[somber fractal]

well sin has one but unlike sub and outlaw it has to give up way too much st to take those talents

[frosty cedar]

it's pretty clear I guess they are only interested in heroic data

[somber fractal]

thats a problem with a lot of specs but i cant think of one that has it worse than sin

[storm belfry]

Never saw them say it’ll be done by 10.1

💀

[somber fractal]

heroic data, especially at this point of a patch is useless. you pop all your cds with puzzle box and the boss is dead in 60 seconds

[frosty cedar]

yeah but I guess the majority of raiders play it / normal so why bother balancing the worst mythic spec

[spice spire]

This is a lot of classes actually. I’m not going to disagree and say it’s great for us, but I’ve played like 4 classes in df (not a lot) and every single one has this issue.

[storm belfry]

Pbox at 421 still simming higher than most NEW trinkets?

[somber fractal]

new trinkets still need balance i think

i think the bomb one got blasted but they are all over the place right now

[storm belfry]

You gotta link for that too?

[static glacier]

for reference.

[spice spire]

yeah - I remember the note vividly. It never said 10.1, in fact it just says may

[static glacier]

ngl this spec has real weaknesses

short lived mobs need to be killed? you can be below healer dps.

[storm belfry]

yeah doesn't state any specific patch

also yeah may

so they may not do shit

[simple violet]

It was also posted like 4 months ago

[gaunt moat]

That's just using non-committal language.
But at first they had intention of reworking the talent.
now they don't. (for the time being)

[spice spire]

yeah and there hasn't been any update since so saying it's supposed to be in 10.1 💀

we figured IT MIGHT BE because early in 10.0 and late beta, they were active with tuning

but it's all about resource allocation, and it's not a one man job to do everything himself. It's unfortuante, but almost to be expected - if one man could fix it, it would have been fixed by now

[rain oyster]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[velvet ridge]

wait i havent looked at this in a bit, is this saying BIS gear is 0 tier?

for M+

[spice spire]

No

It’s saying the best drop from m+ in that slot is x

[velvet ridge]

ohh i understand how to read it now

[balmy condor]

bis

[velvet ridge]

yeah i think like 4 or 5 more weeks and i can be fully bissed out

[balmy condor]

that would be impressive considering there's a patch in 2

[cold spoke]

it was a yoke ofc theyre not

[balmy condor]

sometimes I be waking up feeling like shit and hating myself

but I always cheer myself up

by reminding myself it could be worse

I could be a bis list

knowing there's things out there so utterly useless and meaningless in this world gives me purpose

[tacit otter]

like socks in bed

:^)

[balmy condor]

the socks stay on in winter

I'm convinced my feet get no blood

they're perma ice cubes

even when it's warm outside

[tacit otter]

so youre playing that part in your relationship?

[balmy condor]

yeah :(

[tacit otter]

probably better to be on that end

[balmy condor]

her feet are cold too though

so it works out

cause then neither one of our feet feel cold to the other

[tacit otter]

mine are not, my gf's are

horrible thing

[balmy condor]

if everything is cold

then nothing is cold

[runic hinge]

This is probably a stupid question but if the damage for CT was shifted to be more front loaded to the instant damage and less on the dot but same damage overall wouldn’t that help some aoe woes?

[gusty mirage]

is that why we're such good friends?

because I'm utterly useless and meaningless?

[balmy condor]

no, you're better than a bis list

[gusty mirage]

damn

[balmy condor]

probably not

[gusty mirage]

bis lists suck

[balmy condor]

I mean it's probably better

cause then you spam CT

but like

is it noticeably better?

probably not

[runic hinge]

Doesn’t change our talent situation either so I guess it’s whatever

Trying to think of way it could be better without us taking it in single target

[whole mason]

We need choice nodes for ST, branching nodes for ST/AOE switch, and FoK/pure-AOE-bleeding damage.

[steel ridge]

Huehue puzzlebox is dead i guess

30 seconds is a bit too long for our dm window

[rocky ruin]

The mastery bonus decrease more is heavy

Duration is increased

[cold spoke]

next expansion if lucky

[misty holly]

Maybe they will increase DM to 30 seconds too.

[steel ridge]

so our 4piece is even further delayed 😄

[empty hinge]

just dont play puzzle box and play the halls of infusion trinket the nerf is on ptr

[steel ridge]

you dont say

[empty hinge]

idk haven't read the whole convo

just saw puzzle box

[analog glade]

Is there an example build for sin ST 10.1 plz ?

[steel ridge]

why? nothing has changed 😄

[empty hinge]

same as current ye

[analog glade]

With CT maybe xD

[steel ridge]

what changed about CT?

[analog glade]

Nothing, i wanna play CT in ST for testing

[empty hinge]

its still a dps loss

[steel ridge]

whatever floats your goat man, just pick it

picking just CT is not particularly expensive, but not particularly strong aswell

its not even played on kurog 😄

[analog glade]

I know

[grim jay]

people dooming in most spec channels across all discords and we are talking about feet 7:25AM

thats why we all love to be here

[oak tangle]

we're just contentedly doomed already don't need to continue dooming since we've been doing it since early 10.0

[grim jay]

actually

some of the doom

is basically a WIP since years

[cold spoke]

realisticly for how long can you doom

after 4 expansions

you kinda embrace it

[oak tangle]

to quote bane, "you think you know doom? I was born in it, moulded by it"

you merely adopted the doom

[tawny bloom]

even mages were heard before they looked at us

and boomie soft target cucked

i mean capped

[grim jay]

I made up my mind to not play mage as an alt because it didnt look to great on fire/arcane and then they continously made adjustments

so I feel at the end of 10.0.7 I'll be back at the point of playing my mage alt instead of sp

if this continues

😄

I just like both equally much tho for different reasons

[viscid spear]

Fire looking to compete for best ranged spec next tier

[grim jay]

ye rn it seems like it will be freaking blasting

with the changes

[cunning nest]

The puzzlebox changes are a nerf to assa, no ?

Less dmg for Our burst window

Aligns with dmg Portion instead, but seems like a worse trade off for burst-heavy specs

Any thoughts?

[royal lantern]

blizz wants us to use new trinkets

like, idk? was obvious it will happen?

[grim jay]

its targeted at like UH dk and stuff

[royal lantern]

unholy and fire iirc

[grim jay]

its agi str

[storm belfry]

Think it’s still better than most new trinkets for UHDK atm

[royal lantern]

then i had a brainfart and you can ignore me

[grim jay]

most ye, but not all anymore

and only on 421

[storm belfry]

[grim jay]

yeah I mean

neltharions is a passive trinket