assassination

[oak sky]

so normally garrote, rupture, ct

[ember gyro]

DM is greens

[oak sky]

but it also does deathmark which is really bad

DM is a bleed

NEVER exsang deathmark

[ember gyro]

right

[oak sky]

never ever ever ever

[ember gyro]

but it affects poisions

[oak sky]

no

[ember gyro]

no?

[oak sky]

wait

dm affects poisons?

yes

[ember gyro]

yes

[oak sky]

exsang affects poisons? no

[ember gyro]

no

[oak sky]

i think thats the rundown tho

[ember gyro]

so always DM -> Exsang?

[oak sky]

never

no

always exsang -> dm

you never want to exsang dm

[normal olive]

[oak sky]

using exsang on dm ends up halving your uptime on dm without giving you any additional damage

[ember gyro]

aren't those the same?

[oak sky]

no

exsang works on the dm bleed

[ember gyro]

"always exsang -> dm"
never want to exsang dm

[oak sky]

always cast exsang

then cast dm

never cast dm then cast exsang

[ember gyro]

so when you say "never want to exsang dm", you're talking about exsang as a buff

[oak sky]

you never want to cast exsang after dm

[ember gyro]

exsang then dm

[oak sky]

yes

[ember gyro]

sorry I have had allergies and a head cold, and there's some cognitive decline

[oak sky]

dont worry about it homie thats why I'm here

as long as you get it in the end

[ember gyro]

I figured, what with the name

[storm belfry]

's all good man

[oak sky]

yeah usually the name is agreon

[ember gyro]

and DM, you want to stealth then garrotte into it?

[storm belfry]

ik just saying your display name is fitting at this moment

[oak sky]

i was telling mac in case he sees me later

[oak sky]

so out of stealth you already have a buffed garrote, then when you press DM it duplicates it

[ember gyro]

nah this would be later

during combat

[oak sky]

but like in the middle of a pull you want to vanish garrote

and you can either do it before or during DM

[ember gyro]

all right

[oak sky]

just try to get that vanished garrote roughly synced up with it

[ember gyro]

doesn't matter much if it's before or after

[oak sky]

yeah

either way it gets duplicated, either way it has about the same uptime as a doubled bleed

[ember gyro]

after the opener, anything I should do before hitting my second exsanguinate?

refresh bleeds?

[oak sky]

yeah you always want to refresh your bleeds before exsang

same thing as in the opener, you want max duration+ pandemic

[ember gyro]

so regardless of time left, slam your bleeds, then exsang

[oak sky]

yep

[ember gyro]

sounds good

preciate it

[oak sky]

anytime

[ember gyro]

oh, two more things

1. Is landing on blue combo points something I should try and do or just let it happen naturally.
2. Do I refresh my Exsang'd bleeds or wait for them to fall off before reapplying

[oak sky]

let blue combo points happen naturally

let exsang bleeds fall off

also let buffed stealth garrotes fall off

if you havent check out #assassination-faq btw

[ember gyro]

yeah I've been in and out of it most of the day

I've been an unholy dk since dk's could dk

[oak sky]

i think im about to be a dk next tier

lmao

[ember gyro]

but we're out a rogue next tier and dk's aren't going to do much if they're not blood

[oak sky]

hard to say honestly

[ember gyro]

frost might be good, but I'm RL so I can't do something where I'd mess up a breath

[oak sky]

definitely good to have a rogue but we have like one or two more and to be honest with you i dont like the direction or power level of rogue for next tier

[ember gyro]

fair, I'm just here to support my boys

that extra shivvy goodness

[oak sky]

so I'm gonna hop on something else until tuning or design direction changes

[ember gyro]

if they fix unholy I'll get back on and recruit a rogue

[oak sky]

like if week 2 is huge rogue buffs I'll probably roll back right away

even though it doesnt play well its just smarter for me to be on rogue

if it doesnt suck and you can stack them

[ember gyro]

if my rupture is about to pandemic in 2 or 3 seconds and I've landed on a blue combo, to I wait or send

[oak sky]

Send

Or don't

Shouldnt matter

Also remember pandemic is higher for higher cp so like a blue is worth 7 so its a bigger pandemic

[drifting cosmos]

Waiting is fine if you have all bleeds up and energy not capped

[rain oyster]

odds we get some assass tuning or exang rework in next 3 weeks?UwU

i say 50 50

[drifting cloud]

[oak sky]

0 on exsang rework

its now become 10.1.5 at the soonest

[indigo mulch]

[drifting cosmos]

keep hope up guys, gotta be next week

[peak bobcat]

Assas doesn’t need tuning we are Op

[thorn fjord]

All these alt catch up mechanics are great

Clearly you guys are not taking the hint

[spice spire]

[brazen zodiac]

oh my god

you're right

[drifting cloud]

I have reported you for hate speech to the shadowblades

(for legal reasons this is satire)

[balmy condor]

Your report has been received

[royal lantern]

i see, you also found internet opinions about wow class balancing

[gaunt moat]

Sin is best on heroic.
And heroic is all that matters.
Hench, sin OP

[storm forum]

guys I was joking about my omg we're dodging the nerf bat copy pasta

[drifting cosmos]

can’t wait to top dps in heroic first week and get 2x nerfs in the following week

[steel ridge]

😙

[royal lantern]

nah, that wont be the case lol

[steel ridge]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-spec-rankings/season-df-1-break-the-meta/world/rogue/assassination is that leaderboard broken or am i missing something?

[serene fossil]

Current state of assa

[steel ridge]

nah its not counting all eligible keys somehow

[serene fossil]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-spec-rankings/season-df-1/world/rogue/assassination

[serene fossil]

Youre in the btm shit

Was that on purpose?

[steel ridge]

yeah not by accident

[serene fossil]

Aight aight

Guess ill take some ranks today then

[steel ridge]

maybe its on a 24 hour database refresh or something

[serene fossil]

Or maybe not all keys have been done with the raider io client

[steel ridge]

i have the client, so it should show atleast my keys

[royal lantern]

(it was on purpose)

[serene fossil]

Well recheck tmrw it is then

[steel ridge]

did a few pug keys to get a feeling for assassination in keys with that kind of gear

maybe i should not run annulet for dungeons tho

the best part about BTM is not being asked why you dont play sub 😄

[oak tangle]

^

im just waiting for the weekend for all of NA and EU to come stomp our group out

it's basically do a key time it and hope for an sbg

[brazen lantern]

Are you oce?

[oak tangle]

yea

[brazen lantern]

[subtle tundra]

Uhhhh cba break the meta

Spec not fun enough

[floral shoal]

BTM leaderboards miss most runs, devs are working on it according to their discord. I should have ~630 points waiting to take a screenshot:)

[drifting cosmos]

go sin go

Make us proud

[velvet vault]

Hope they are gonna do something about the state of assa before S2 comes out... especially in mm+

[royal lantern]

yeha, no

at best, its hard underperforming 1-2 weeks after raid/m+ release and gets flat % buffs

at worst its somewhat decent in the raid, and then gets fully ignored again cus "omg just play outlaw for dungeons"

[steel ridge]

my guess is we get a 3% aura buff and 10% fan of knives dmg

but dont worry, sin will aoe pump after 16 seconds of ramp up time (getting rid of deathmark)

[subtle tundra]

Me targeting the critter with deathmark before pull so I can pump

[royal lantern]

and then the hunter is afk anyway

like always

[drifting cosmos]

target the mob with 10% hp left so you can start your cd, such high IQ gameplay

[steel ridge]

its weird in m+ context

while it may work very well in patchwerk

[drifting cosmos]

regardless it's every 2min, huge cd

suppose it's still better than SL sin?

[regal sable]

i liked sl s3/4 sin

it was fun

[ember gyro]

any tips to up my poison uptime with envenom? Or is it one of those things where it will fall of occasionally

[pure moth]

you don't play around envenom uptime.

[ember gyro]

cool

cross that off my list

[royal lantern]

you will have like 70% envenom uptime by normal playing

[uncut echo]

I feel like I sit around 85-88% in mythic

[ember gyro]

is there any prep going into death mark?

hmmm, I suppose vanish into garrotte

[uncut echo]

Ye

Well, no

After opener DM

You just send dm, and vanish gar env gar env

Bc it's a free 1 builder envenom every time

[ember gyro]

and after opener, all I do with exsanguinate is refresh bleeds regardless of current duration?

oh dang, vanish gar env gar env is sick

I like that very much

[velvet vault]

I mean the spec is so weak without all the extra damage such as ring, head+ring, trinkets, etc... That means that if u don't have any of these extra damages there is nothing. Ex: the new ring does more than 10% of the overall dam in dj and raid (that's on a AA +21 at 130k overall)

With a Dathea, Zero does 150k overall on the same key just by having a better trinket with the same rotation

[subtle tundra]

uh

i dont think its 20k dps

[velvet vault]

it just show how the spec need a serious review... It doesn't perform by itself like other specks

look at the logs them

then

[subtle tundra]

thats

not

wtf

am i reading

NAH NO WAY

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[spice spire]

[velvet vault]

Lol that's mathematical, when u have an uncap trinket with 45 targets that's normal that u do more than 17m with a trinket

overall

[subtle tundra]

this will not be me

https://tenor.com/view/fishing-swallog-prey-bye-gif-11429031

IT WONT

[velvet vault]

i don't get u :3, bait what ?

[spice spire]

[subtle tundra]

your way of comparing trinkets

and your conclusion

not

[spice surge]

Keep in mind that while you might do 10% with the ring, youre actually losing like 7% worth of stats

[subtle tundra]

going into it

[spice surge]

So its not nearly as good as it seems

[uncut echo]

No, hold exsang for minute 4 dm

And do your opener dm again

[spice surge]

Also boon isnt uncapped, its softcapped at 8*

[velvet vault]

I guess that's why the spec is not getting any change, everybody is like "well that's normal if the spec is being so dumb"

[subtle tundra]

pretty sure someone said it loses dmg over 20 targets

[woeful meteor]

this

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/dont-stop-me-i-need-to-go-leave-me-alone-i-can-do-this-stop-him-gif-13704427

[spice spire]

You don’t frequent here often. That’s clear if this is what you think

[uncut echo]

Stop baiting the channel with shit takes

[subtle tundra]

buddy we're not the only spec in the game who can use that trinket

[uncut echo]

You're clearly out of your element, and are just trying to rile people up

[subtle tundra]

guys i have a pic i want to print on a shirt with explosions on it but those are transparent, how can i make it so they are solid

[velvet vault]

Lol if u had read the entire message u would see that i'm actually not talking about the trinket but the lack of damage spec that need so much extra source of damage to do the same minimum as as an other spec

[spice surge]

Also afaik the best user of boon is brewmaster, because they have an effect that procs from the ticks of it so it just does way more damage

[balmy condor]

Spec actually doesn’t get changes because our slow modes aren’t long enough

[uncut echo]

There it is king

[uncut echo]

Boon does the same

For all classes

[steel ridge]

so we need more dooming?

[uncut echo]

??????

?????????????

[woeful meteor]

you mean the same items every other class in the game uses

because they are turbo op

[balmy condor]

Just doom the same but slower

[spice spire]

Real

[spice surge]

Generally yes, but there are some effects that still affect stuff like trinkets

[spice spire]

Speaking of which

[subtle tundra]

actually boon kinda does more on outlaw

cause they have more vers

[royal lantern]

wow, so its again your fault, thanks whisp

[uncut echo]

NOT ENOUGH TO WARRANT THIS ARGUMENT

[velvet vault]

Well the other specs are well balanced and assa damage are behind that's all i'm saying and i'd like this to change because the spec is actually very fun to play

[subtle tundra]

please help

[balmy condor]

Are you feeling it mr crabs

[spice surge]

It does more on sub too because veiltouched increases its damage by 5%
But like i said brewmasters have some stuff that procs of any damage (including trinkets) so they can pop off

[subtle tundra]

all of us here want assa to do better, bud

just your arguments are not good

[spice surge]

Brewmasters doing 900k on first academy pull

[near valley]

the shirt is transparent?

[uncut echo]

Not all specs can be bis at once

[royal lantern]

i think assa players are the last people on earth that want assa to be bad

[subtle tundra]

the shirt is black

[royal lantern]

thats reserved for warlock

[subtle tundra]

the explosions have transparancy

[royal lantern]

[velvet vault]

Haha just a bunch of haters here, u say something and 10 ppl jumps on u with no arguments

[spice spire]

https://tenor.com/view/alexswrld-alexswrid-spongebob-mr-krabs-gif-21748152

[balmy condor]

Good thing I’m a sub otp

[uncut echo]

Idk, I don't want sin to be good in m+

[near valley]

wtf

[uncut echo]

Its current gameplay loop is dogshit

And needs a fundamental rework to be fun

I want it to fucking slam as a prog raid spec

[near valley]

sin hasn't changed gameplay in bare time

[royal lantern]

so thats why you didnt make slowmode long enough

you dont wanna play assa, and prevent it to be strong cus of it

[subtle tundra]

i want to make that shirt mannnnnn

[royal lantern]

smh my head, sub 1 tricks

[subtle tundra]

imma ask chatgpt

[velvet vault]

Well the ST in dj is very very slow as to the energy comes up very slowly

[uncut echo]

My little sub uwu

[spice spire]

That’s where you’re wrong. I subjectively enjoy assassination gameplay, therefore ur dumb for arguing with me

[near valley]

sound argument

[uncut echo]

You are the only person I've ever seen call dungeons dj

[subtle tundra]

good that the energy is slow

[balmy condor]

Still too fast actually

[velvet vault]

Well u get to see something new, wp

[uncut echo]

I hate it

[velvet vault]

nice

[uncut echo]

Lmao

[spice surge]

Dunjon

[velvet vault]

xD

[uncut echo]

Dijon

[spice spire]

Djent

[uncut echo]

My mustard dps is rough

I CANT FUCKING SLEEP

[royal lantern]

i thought im dumb because im stupid?

[subtle tundra]

I NEED

TO SOLVE

[thorn fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/periphery-hail-stan-reptile-jake-bowen-misha-mansoor-gif-20198574

[spice spire]

They’re not mutually exclusive

[subtle tundra]

MY SHIRT

PROBLEM

AAAAAAA

chatgpt came with a solution but i dont have a photoshop program

[spice surge]

I once played a m+ pug where a dps missed his kick so we wiped and the tank asked him "are you deaf, dumb or dog?"

[near valley]

tbf i wanna help but i'm still confused on ur shirt issue

[spice spire]

Dog

[uncut echo]

Dog energy

[subtle tundra]

these are transparent
i need them not to be

[uncut echo]

I strive for puppy gf

[near valley]

who let the dog out type beat

[near valley]

what?

[royal lantern]

i wish i was a dog

[uncut echo]

Based

[near valley]

can be if u try hard enough

might get funny looks on the street though

[uncut echo]

What are you confused about

[near valley]

what in tarnation is a puppy gf?

[uncut echo]

Puppy girl gf

It's uh

A vibe, go look it up

[near valley]

is this a incognito type search?

[uncut echo]

Depends on how far you go

You know when you say someone has golden retriever energy

Puppy girl gf moment

[near valley]

all i can think of is using photoshop to keep replicating the explosions behind the explosion till u can't see transparency

might not be the solution ur looing for though

[near valley]

bruh this category on tiktok has 91.4B views

i'm scared after reading up on this

[ember gyro]

do I essentially repeat the opener every 4 minutes in ST raid?

[steel sorrel]

In one way yes, althou it differs between fights ofc if you are in need of burst dmg. Take Rasz for an example where you dont do it in intermission and save for shields in P2 🙂

[ember gyro]

makes sense

[steel sorrel]

@ember gyro You can start here: #assassination-faq message

I always go to warcraftlogs or lorrgs.io and check a timeline for a boss to plan the encounter or see cd management others have as a reference when learning a fight if that makes sense.

But I would start here in the #assassination-faq and read Cd usage part ❤

[spice surge]

https://lorrgs.io/

Makes it significantly easier to see their cd uses

If youre not already using this site

[steel sorrel]

Read the post I did 😛

[spice surge]

?

[vestal wren]

i think he refers to already mentioned lorrgs.io in his message

[spice surge]

He edited it in

[steel sorrel]

I did but not to add that lol

Just formatting xD

Althou, I wish I had.. that would have been hillarious

[vestal wren]

the edit was before your post, but also think its nothing to spend too much time discussing ^^

[steel sorrel]

Truest of words

[ember gyro]

For sure. it's like when we were doing Raz, I was playing unholy and just did my opener at the start of each phase as opposed to when it naturally came up

I'm well acquainted with that logic

[spark cloud]

what do i type to see the current bis lists? its been a while since ive played

[vapid sierra]

Is assa rotation the same next tier?

[vapid sierra]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[vapid sierra]

That?

[spark cloud]

yes thank you!

[vapid sierra]

Np

[spice spire]

Don’t focus on bis lists (outside of trinkets) more agility will often = better.
And the best way to upgrade is the fan favorite:

https://www.raidbots.com

[ember gyro]

During an ER Window, do I want to use one of them on a rupture regardless of current rupture remaining?

[spice spire]

Not particularly like if it falls there and you’re trying to refresh rupture it’s fine to use, otherwise just envenom

[sweet dawn]

idk if it's the "correct" play but if a rupture has like 8 seconds and not 5 (where it's in pandemic) and I land on an ER combo point I'll just rupture

[burnt latch]

Rupture pandemic isnt at 5 seconds right

Aint it like 8 to 9 seconds off the top of my head

Isnt max cp rupture like 25-28 seconds or some shit

[oak sky]

Its about 1s per cp

Like 1s more

7.2 at 5cp

8.1 at 6

9 at 7

I think

Might be a little off but

[burnt latch]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[burnt latch]

8.4 at 6, 7.2 at 5

[oak sky]

I was assuming 3s per combo point not 4 oops

Didnt look it up i just guessed

[burnt latch]

Ye

I think that guy just confused garrote pandemic with rupture

[sweet dawn]

Yeah I'm just dumb my b

Is there a way you can track how many CP were spent on rupture in WA or naw?

[oak sky]

Doesnt matter

Pandemic is based on the newly applied dot

[static glacier]

I hate how alacrity can fall off

[royal lantern]

you fully ignore that alacrity exist and just play

its a passive dmg gain, thats it

[eager solstice]

did you someone have access to ptr logs?

[grim jay]

everyone has and they are pretty much useless data

[brazen zodiac]

o.o

[burnt latch]

Hows it useless

[uncut echo]

Oh my god a cutie in the wild

[brazen zodiac]

hewwwo

how to hide the 0 parse >.<

hey ahri help me name a warrior c:

[strange python]

Is Assa fun at all on ptr?

[oak sky]

Pretty much the same as live

[spice surge]

If its fun rn its fun on the ptr, there are no changes

[uncut echo]

Butchbttch

Or gorillagrip for a fury warrior

[storm belfry]

what spec you playing ahri

[uncut echo]

Arms

I took aoe talents on terros

[storm belfry]

what a noodlehead

[uncut echo]

My guild still makes me so nervous

[storm belfry]

why?

[brazen zodiac]

you and me both

LUL

gorillagrip was taken rip.

[storm belfry]

I had that feeling my first week with mine

but i feel comfy now, but i wouldve been sweating had they had me in raz last night for sure

[spice spire]

Doms least scary mfs

[uncut echo]

Just, not performing super well on my swap yet

[storm belfry]

wait you are actually hard swappiung?

[ember mural]

rogues and swapping mains in 10.1, name a better duo

[spice spire]

I’m staying true

[storm belfry]

healer main swappign to rogue in 10.1

[storm belfry]

you said some sussy yesterday sir

[spice spire]

I’ve confirmed to guild

We remain

I am tanking for our 1 day team

[storm belfry]

noice

[uncut echo]

Ya. Unless it doesn't work out

[uncut echo]

Nah doms fr great

[spice spire]

Ain’t one scary mf in there

Except jez

[uncut echo]

Jez is so based

[spice spire]

Based on psychopathic tendencies maybe

[limber lion]

No

[echo heath]

The only acceptable thing to do if you're not going to rogue is tanking

[lucid birch]

[uncut echo]

AHHHH

NOT MY SAFE SPACE

[lucid birch]

Did she tell y’all how she stole my icon

Kinda weird!

[storm belfry]

[uncut echo]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

nooooOoOOOO

[lucid birch]

It’s okay I wasn’t next anyways but I do like pretending

[limber lion]

Why is Whispyr's entire guild here

[lucid birch]

To bother him at work

[limber lion]

Good

[uncut echo]

We're like the awkward band of hooligans that show up at work and be really awkward while Whispyr is trying to tend to customers LOL

[spice spire]

Whispyr simp

[lucid birch]

Quake simp actually

[spice spire]

[uncut echo]

There's no shot someone meets quake and they don't simp for them

[spice spire]

[viscid spear]

[storm forum]

whats the name of that addon that lets you have more talent pages?

[serene fossil]

Talent loadouts ex

Smth like thst

[storm forum]

thanks

[viscid spear]

WoW Classic, make sure Spell Ranks are ser properly

[oak sky]

hardstuck rogue

[spice spire]

[viscid spear]

Was I wrong?!

[storm belfry]

im boosting a hunter rn

[spice spire]

I am the ultimate basado

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

[storm belfry]

[royal lantern]

we got a small balance update, and no dooming or slowmode

im dissapointed guys

[storm belfry]

everyone has re rolled

[spice spire]

Rogues can no longer be vulpera at this time

[sick aspen]

he said balance, not buff

[spice spire]

True

[royal lantern]

what am i then

[spice spire]

A fraud

Just like quakethree

[storm forum]

The silence is the dooming

[royal lantern]

no, thats iron wire

[runic hinge]

Iron wire is goated

[thorn dove]

We got a balance update?

[spice spire]

Dh got some balancing done

[tacit otter]

sub data mined changes pog

where assa:(

[silk bane]

sub got nerfed what u mean LOL

[regal sable]

4pc buff

[tacit otter]

just talking about changes. changes are pog. nerfs not so much

[silk bane]

Ah right, 40% nerf on the 2 pc that was strong but 30% buff on 4 pc that was weak! great buff dude! 4 pc now does more than 1% poggers

[spice spire]

[regal sable]

most sane sub player

[silk bane]

youre right 2pc + 4pc is now roughly 4.66% instead of 6%. Im so happy now.

damn broke my 30 day no doom challenge. welp ill start again tmrw

[tacit otter]

if youre happy im happy:)

[spice spire]

[regal sable]

haven't been in spec channels for a while but if "4pc buff" is enough to give ppl mental anguish

rogue must be down bad

[spice spire]

I think it’s more the 2p down that’s giving anguish

But also

Sub changes - sin chat dooms

[regal sable]

i meant the msg i sent

[spice spire]

Ahh I see the point

[marble hemlock]

We doom for our brothers that aren't yet forgotten by blizz

[spice spire]

I’m at work so I missed the 4p buff bit

[marble hemlock]

Maybe being forgotten is a good thing

[silk bane]

it is. hopefully they dont touch sin.

[marble hemlock]

When i look at the most "recent" sub/outlaw stuff

[regal sable]

I hope they make nightstalker a 2 point talent

[spice spire]

Ur a demon

[regal sable]

oh wait it is

LOL

ok 3 point***

[brazen zodiac]

O.O

[runic hinge]

I hope they make poison bomb look like the fart clouds in yoggs room and that’s our only change

[eager solstice]

damn was hoping for some datamined assa stuff

[spice surge]

Would you rather see nerfs or remain ignored?

[near valley]

what about both?

[eager solstice]

good point. At this point with the current dev team, no news is good news

[shut owl]

why? It already doesn't work right for so much stuff

[regal sable]

yea im just saying it bc spite troll funny haha

[oak sky]

I hope they make nightstalker a 5 point talent

[keen spruce]

we got 2 pulls yesterday in i2

actually pretty close to working it out

finally benched the mage that was inting 1/3 of our pulls since Heroic raz

5 more raid days

[viscid spear]

[ember gyro]

the opener I understand, but I'm not sure how to get into it from it's repeat at 4 minutes. ER/Rupture/vanish/garotte/EX/DM/Env?

[sweet dawn]

Pretty much yeah

and puzzle box if you have it

[ebon notch]

its legit the same as the opener

thats why you delay exsang and puzzlebox to 4 mins

[ember gyro]

but the opener starts with garrote/SnD/garrote, because you're in stealth and you don't have SnD

at 4 minutes you won't be in stealth and SnD already going

feels like 4 minutes is more like

minus the bone spike

[sudden hound]

exactly that. the idea is to have max length bleeds up before you hit exsang. so however you want to go about doing that into the vanish garrote exsang dm

[ember gyro]

yeah, cool

I'm learning

[sweet dawn]

I was just looking at the top parse for Terros to look at timings and stuff, homie didn't even talent exsang

Bro's just built different

[spice spire]

It’s not a massive loss tbf

It is certainly a loss unless lil bro went sub 3 minutes in the kill

[gusty mirage]

true

just built diffy

[brazen zodiac]

correct.

simply better.

[runic hinge]

Wouldn’t pi make exsang even better tho?

[gusty mirage]

assuming it's timed correctly

yes

he's also playing grieftorch

and got 6 casts

in 4 minutes

[runic hinge]

Cool. I make my priest pi me before I exsang

[earnest remnant]

build diff

[gusty mirage]

true

[runic hinge]

Definitely assembled uniquely

[gusty mirage]

4 of them spaced out perfectly to fit in 4 casts

in under a minute each

lmao

[earnest remnant]

i had 5 in 3:57 today

🙂

[runic hinge]

That’s gaming right there

[gusty mirage]

what the fuck is concussive slam

is that the tank beam?

lmao

[earnest remnant]

yeh

[gusty mirage]

insane

[earnest remnant]

i only had 13% sophic uptime tho

was a rank 5 i think

couldve been a stonker

[gusty mirage]

unlucky

if you were a better player you'd roll numbers better

change my mind

[brazen zodiac]

true

[earnest remnant]

true shit

im washed

[runic hinge]

Real and true

[sweet dawn]

But you look at all the other rogues near the top who also get 3 PIs but no exsang and he still did more damage

Grief torch tho

[high iron]

Heya, anyone knows when should we use grieftorch in the opener? Figured it would be after our burst window but not sure

[steel ridge]

Delete Exsang

You need: windfury, puzzlebox, grieftorch, eranog ring+cowl, onyx annulet

You dont need: Exsang

oh and 420 ilvl helps to parse

[strange python]

Grief deaths, procs, windfury (our enhance is out for farm for mental break so rip my parses), sophic highroll

[autumn frost]

Don't forget 424 weapon mainhand

[gusty mirage]

don't forget 6 casts in 4:30 minutes

of grieftorch

[steel ridge]

;D

Last sennarth reclear i said after the first stairs that my torch is malfunctional. Raid asked why and i said its still on cd

[autumn frost]

I love how for sennarth you can just last minute shadowstep over the edge

and you get placed on the ledge as long as you're not moving.

thereby not having to run away ever

[shrewd night]

I want to check if I can do the same with cat-leap, but I think it relies on pathing

[steel ridge]

[balmy condor]

Meownar is a cat of science

[autumn frost]

Test it out and let the grieftorch people be happy.

[shrewd night]

Nahnahnahnah

[autumn frost]

You mean Nyahnyahnyahnyah

[shrewd night]

Im the one with the whisper-wa, they aint getting away from that

[royal lantern]

the what

i need information now

[steel ridge]

Just stand on their corpse and let it rip

that’s enough

[shrewd night]

If my grieftorch gets reset from death, the responsible party gets a whispered paragraph of the most cursed uwu degeneracy

[royal lantern]

you cant say that and then dont link it smh

[shrewd night]

I can

Hold the L bozo

[rapid forum]

We have 5 people with the whisper weakaura in the guild. I have 5 people from my guild on ignore

[wispy orchid]

i see some ppl not taking exsanguinate in keys, but guides have it, (I just started looking into sin/rogue recently) what would be the reason not to have it

[royal lantern]

cus exsang sucks hard and should be removed/reworked

nobody likes playing exsang

[wispy orchid]

i'm assuming its a staple for st still tho but in keys maybe more optional?

[balmy condor]

yeah in keys 100% optional

technically it's better

because of some nebulous esoteric arguments

like having more control on priority mobs

which then means the key is safer/faster

[tawny bloom]

for the key to be safe/faster you should not go sin

[balmy condor]

but in terms of actual impact it's pretty much irrelevant

[tawny bloom]

[wispy orchid]

is sin really THAT bad in keys or is that the other specs are just generally better

if that makes sense

i genuinely dont like sub, i think its so cringe LMAO i'm struggling so hard in keys to have fun

but i'd like to potentially rr off my cr class to rogue

but i push keys pretty heavily

[tawny bloom]

i mean it isnt that bad but its just that sub and outlaw are easier to execute. And not getting a restealth between packs isnt as crucial as it would be for sin

in the end all of our specs are either target capped or soft target capped

cut off is reachable with all of them

and for what majority plays its w/e anyway

[wispy orchid]

yea

yeah the other big thing is i'd be coming from feral, and i'm not really the one to have two different classes for raid and m+. i'm pretty doomer rn about feral next tier for st and i really like sin st

sounds like it'll be decent

[normal olive]

those darn restealths

[balmy condor]

restealths aren't crucial for sin either

[gusty mirage]

other specs are just better & require less effort

assassination is pretty good in keys

and gets a lot of unnecessary hate tbh

[normal olive]

wdym whispyr but me restealths are so big dmg

[balmy condor]

the most important thing you lose from restealths is iron wire, and if the tank needs that shit they'll make sure you get a stealth

[wispy orchid]

outlaw gives me zoomer brain vibes tho

i'm old

[wispy orchid]

but this gives me hope, i'm more of a get title and be happy, i'm not looking to be rank 1 rogue or someshit

[normal surge]

How does Sin look for raid next tier with most of the bosses being single target?

[wispy orchid]

(0.01% title not ksm LOL)

[gusty mirage]

there's 7 sin rogues in range of the 0.01% title

and like

6 others that are on the cusp

it's very much doable

you just need a group willing to believe in you

tbh

[wispy orchid]

i mean worst case scenario i learn to play 2/3 psecs

[tawny bloom]

Ye its just getting into the groups that is the problem

[wispy orchid]

do ppl rly check rogue specs

i dont think i've ever inspected one and been like

oh he's sin

nahhh

[raven merlin]

i never had a problem as sin to get in groups ay

in 3000-3100 rio keys

[royal lantern]

only for high HoV

[tawny bloom]

quite early into season 1 i was only running sin with premades and was kicked quite often from pugs

[royal lantern]

cus assa cant do the fenryr cheese as good

[wispy orchid]

dw im a 25 and done kind of person for that key

LMAO

fuck that dungeon

[normal olive]

i think i got kicked from 1 group and all the other groups were like "why is a sin first in dps here wtf"

[raven merlin]

y same over s1

[normal olive]

doesn't matter what spec as long as you don't int away

[wispy orchid]

im too lazy to look but is double vanish sub exlusive?

[royal lantern]

sub has 0vanish, outlaw has cd reduction

[wispy orchid]

wait what

oh it is wtf

without a trace

ok i thought that was a rogue treee thing

[royal lantern]

oh, and assa is losing the highest amount of dmg for not using vanish offensively

[wispy orchid]

so it should be a sin thing

also ok im sorry for asking this but i have too

can i macro deathmark with exsang? (on st)

||please dont yell at me||

[gusty mirage]

based

fuck hov

dogshit fucking dungeon

[wispy orchid]

REAL

[normal olive]

[royal lantern]

no

no

[normal olive]

30 runs in a day on my mage no trinket

[royal lantern]

no

no

[gusty mirage]

so wait, like no? or what's the deal @royal lantern

[wispy orchid]

at least ur not yelling

[royal lantern]

thats so cursed

[wispy orchid]

i was just curious LMAO

[royal lantern]

it needed 4 no's

[gusty mirage]

bro I can't wait for next season

[wispy orchid]

i have rather small hands and sometimes i run out of bindings so im like where can i condense

[gusty mirage]

SO EXCITED FOR BRACKENHIDE

[normal olive]

F NO

[wispy orchid]

[gusty mirage]

GONNA BE INSANE GUYS

[normal olive]

HOI IS ALSO GREAT

[royal lantern]

@wispy orchid when you use exsang during dm, you cut dm in half

[gusty mirage]

so many keys are gonna rip on the gauntlet

[royal lantern]

[gusty mirage]

LMFAO

[wispy orchid]

wouldnt u just exsang first then dm?

[normal olive]

yes

the other way around you might aswell just alt f4

i did that already

[austere fulcrum]

Bruw let us know how )

[royal lantern]

yes, you max the bleeds->exsang->DM

[tawny bloom]

not sure if someone cooked that one yet, but what if we swap talent note exsanguiate with kingsbane. Surely we would all enjoy our lives more

[normal olive]

idk just don't suck? xD

[austere fulcrum]

U guys running dungeon with 3 sin rog or what :))

[royal lantern]

if you do DM->exsang, you press alt->f4 and say "oh shit, game crashed sorry, gotta pull again"

[wispy orchid]

well yea but im saying like

no bueno

[normal olive]

wait how tf do you know what i did

[royal lantern]

all assa players share a braincell

all 5of us

[tawny bloom]

we are like orange cats

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/shithead-single-celled-organism-his-name-is-shithead-his-name-is-gif-26390295

[gusty mirage]

I just swear out loud to myself

and pretend like I didn't just brick my damage

[royal lantern]

thats why push2talk is good

[gusty mirage]

oh I have to be on push to talk

otherwise people would hear the things that I say

that's also why I mute my mic on stream during prog

[normal olive]

just do it like me and press your push to talk while insulting yourself and cut out midway so they think you dc'd

like the time i spilled a whole water bottle on my keyboard during ff prog

[tawny bloom]

perma mute, facecam on stream but also being muted so i dont have fbi infront of my door

[austere fulcrum]

U re next level rog player dude, no doubt u outdmg rest in dungeon xd

[tawny bloom]

also a note saying "stream is muted coz tryhard"

[balmy condor]

theoretically if you castmacro that, sure

but uh

3 min

2 min

very yucky

I guess it's fine

as long as you never ever hit exsang on cooldown

and only with deathmark

which is what we do right now

but no puzzle box might fuck that over again

either way good luck

[tawny bloom]

if you have wa interface that shows both cds it should be fine with that macro

[balmy condor]

yeh

just needs to be a cast sequence

and it's gucci

[austere fulcrum]

I usually dm + puzzlebox and dont wait exa if fight is less than 4/5 min. Do u suggest to keep them all for big combo after opener @balmy condor ? It is slightly better but i cant wait and look at my DM for a minute )

[wispy orchid]

LOL yeah i wont do it i was just curious

[balmy condor]

aight let me go through the logic

cause this is something

that seems very commonly misunderstood

so we're gonna do a mini rant

[grim jay]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-popcorn-eating-gif-18107571

[balmy condor]

busting out the fl studio for this one again

aight, each section here is 15 seconds, with 0:00 being the pull, each thick line being a minute, and the highlighted time being 4 minutes

you got D for deathmark, E for exang, F for vanish

so you do your opener

you use all 3

then you got deathmark/vanish at 2 minutes right

and you got exsang coming up at 3 min

[austere fulcrum]

correct

[balmy condor]

so if I hypothetically here in pink

move the deathmark/vanish onto the exsang

I don't lose anything

and I synced up my cooldowns better

which is a W

so in that one, we hold deathmark/vanish for the exsang

easy enough

but 5 min right

now we got an extra set

so how do you move the cooldowns

without adding/removing

to sync up better

well you can't move things backwards, since they're still on cooldown

so you can only move things forward

so now you gotta move the exsanguinate forward

so in that situation, you held exsang for a minute to line back up

on really short fights, it essentially boils down to whatever the last cast of a cooldown is, you hold for whatever desynced cooldown you have

in the first situation, exsang comes up, it's the last cast, so you hold it for the desynced deathmark/vanish

sorry, that's the second situation

the first one is the other way around, deathmark/vanish comes up, it's the last cast, so you hold for the desynced exsanguinate

on longer fights that logic sorta breaks down as you get more casts to hold/send

but generally if you know the timer, it's best practice to think about your last set of cooldowns coming up, and how you can sync those with things that aren't up yet

the question of "should I do that" though

that's something only you can answer

it is better

casting cooldowns together is always better just by nature of the game

if you don't care about minmaxing every last % of damage

send it whatever who cares

you'll lose like 1% or 1.5% or whatever

[wispy orchid]

wait people dont like snapshotting on sin?

[balmy condor]

no

[austere fulcrum]

thank u so much @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

snapshotting dogshit mechanic

[wispy orchid]

we still do it for feral to a degree

[balmy condor]

fuck that

[balmy condor]

np

[wispy orchid]

idm it tbh

but maybe its worse with sin idk cuz feral its pretty easy to do

[balmy condor]

it's not difficult so much as it's just dumb

exsang snapshotting haste just means "hey don't use haste amps after hitting exsang, they don't do anything, hit them before"

but its unintuitive garbage that isn't explained in game

and doesn't make sense with how bleeds work any other time

you do your opener, someone forgets to lust

guess fuck

my exsang is gone

oh well

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

that lust didn't do jack shit

[normal olive]

gotta get that pi or you alt f4

[balmy condor]

because exsang is a snapshot

[wispy orchid]

oh wait ya ok i see

[balmy condor]

PI after you hit exsang?

[normal olive]

wait

[balmy condor]

outta fucking luck on that one

[normal olive]

oh fuck

[wispy orchid]

its haste not like an ability LMAO

[balmy condor]

might as well just go next

[normal olive]

i just noticed i always got pi when i pressed deathmark

fuck me

[wispy orchid]

cuz feral is snapshotted by our TF thats 15% more dam and a x timer buff idr im slow and its extended now by cp spent.

[balmy condor]

and that's why your logs are more grey than my dads hair

bozo

[normal olive]

[brazen zodiac]

hi whispyr cx

[wispy orchid]

i can see how its bad if u get pi or something

LMAO

[normal olive]

they are not grey

[rapid forum]

Didn't blizzard say they are looking into removing / changing exsang or am I just making stuff up?

[balmy condor]

they said they would be looking at it

and then nothing yet

[balmy condor]

fine, so they're more green than the grass I don't touch

[deft flicker]

They put a big “under construction” sign by making the cooldown like 5 times as big and halving the effect, then went silent

[normal olive]

[balmy condor]

Idk if it's really an "under construction" sign

[normal olive]

why is whispyr bullying

[wispy orchid]

so this is only when you have exsang up right?

[balmy condor]

they did what they had to in order to balance it

[balmy condor]

yeah, exsang is a haste snapshot, and then like improved garrote is just the garrote you cast from stealth, so you let that tick instead of clipping it for pandemic which isn't really a snapshot

and everything else is business per usual

[normal olive]

ight okay i deserve it only purple in mythic

[deft flicker]

Yeah, but they commented on that as “we wanna do something with it”

[normal olive]

[wispy orchid]

so exsang is the main issue, everything else is gg

afai understand

[balmy condor]

yes

[deft flicker]

Might be a weird take but exsang could be a solid capstone

[wispy orchid]

so tf is the opener LOL

[balmy condor]

nop

shit gameplay

[normal olive]

just delete it thanks

[balmy condor]

exsang needs to be deleted

[raven merlin]

got that juicy p4 world log at terrors last night
shout out to the boyz who dies #grieftorch

[balmy condor]

6 years ago

[normal olive]

didn't mind it in nyalotha i think

[deft flicker]

[balmy condor]

you didn't mind it cause it did damage

[normal olive]

Yea

[balmy condor]

nyalotha was a fucking tragedy in terms of gameplay

45 second exsang

[normal olive]

it was great

fuck energy

just mash your head on the keyboard

peak opener times

[balmy condor]

so you send it on cooldown at 0, 45, 1:30, but wait then it's not up for vanish/vendetta, so you hold vanish/vendetta until it comes back up at 2:20

it's literally what people complain about with holding exsang/box

but 1000000000000000x worse

for no reason

and the only reason people ever liked 8.3 is "haha energy" and "haha damage"

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/670758470848610312/1057003203742412800/skate.gif

@normal olive this is you

[normal olive]

the monkey is missing

with the metal thingies that go bash

[oak sky]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/670758470848610312/1057003203742412800/skate.gif

me when listening to i think by tyler the creator

[normal olive]

there is a good reason why i play frost mage now

2 button gameplay

[wispy orchid]

maybe i go back feral

[balmy condor]

I challenge the people who enjoyed 8.3 sin to tell me why with an arugment other than "it removed a resource from the spec" and "it did a lot of damage"

but hasn't happened yet

fucking nostalgia

[normal olive]

it was fun

[balmy condor]

holy my blood pressure

every fucking time

[oak sky]

its actually always it did a lot of damage

100% of the time

[normal olive]

i just enjoy braindead stuff

[oak sky]

throughput is the king of design

[balmy condor]

it is, and like I get it

doing damage is fun

crushing meters

very fun

seeing big numbers

it all makes sense

[oak sky]

half the people in this server probably want frost shards to come back

tbh

[balmy condor]

but don't pretend like the design of the spec is why you enjoyed it

ya know

[wispy orchid]

wat if they made it 80% more dam not fast

[oak sky]

then its giga boring

[balmy condor]

I mean already an improvement

but yeh

that's just arterial precision

[normal olive]

big much energy > small not much energy

i like pressing buttons

[balmy condor]

then go play outlaw

[normal olive]

yeah no thanks

i don't like warrior

[oak sky]

theres like 37 specs in the game that arent resource starved

shouldnt be too hard to find one that works

[normal olive]

so far i only enjoyed assa, frost and legion disc

[oak sky]

and i do mean that unironically

[wispy orchid]

there are classic feral players who come to retail (or havent touched retail in years) that now complain they have too much energy. It's so weird to complain abt having too much resource

[oak sky]

its not really

[wispy orchid]

i think thats such a first world complaint vs actual complaints like ie; exssang being an issue

i mean the issue with having too much energy it just there are abilities not being impactful enough imo

[oak sky]

if your resource economy is too good it devalues the buttons you press

[balmy condor]

when you have a spec that revolves around uptime

and everything is 100% uptime

then somethings wrong

it's not even that they're not impactful

it's just that they spec literally is suffocating itself

[oak sky]

like abilities cant be impactful if you have infinite resources

[royal lantern]

what

[balmy condor]

why have a duration on envenom if you can just maintain it

and then you gotta clip the duration

because you're gonna overcap

[royal lantern]

too much energy is 1of the reasons why sub is so bad rn gameplay wise

[balmy condor]

so what's the point exactly

[normal olive]

i didn't even know about that for a long time

[balmy condor]

I'd actually argue that drowning in resources is a bigger issue for the spec than exsang snapshotting

[wispy orchid]

rn w feral there isnt a good balance. Its hard to explain but my point is there are a few ppl who don't play currently, that live in the TBC/wrath era of feral which wasnt very fun (especially in aoe) 2 swipes and u were not doing anything LOL

[balmy condor]

you can talent out of exsang without much issue, and playing around it isn't that problematic

[royal lantern]

reminder that on rogue, high energy all the time translates into flat dmg curve

[balmy condor]

but you can't not drown in energy

that's just the spec

and it limits everything around the spec

[grim jay]

Actually its rather that gloomblade has more/better amps than dance so the profile is fucked.

[royal lantern]

aka whats happening with sub, a burst dmg spec that suddenky has the flattest dmg curve in the game after outlaw

[balmy condor]

it wrecks the damage profile, wrecks the importance of each ability, wrecks the importance of uptime, and creates a spammy rotation for something that isn't designed to be spammy

[royal lantern]

i mean, beeing able spam gloomblade 24/7 Without any care in the world is also a big part of it

[grim jay]

Wouldnt scuff the profile as much if the damage wasnt high tho

And you still have some degree of pooling

Like 3s

[shrewd night]

If they make energy matter again they can do the same to mana

[balmy condor]

and they should

[royal lantern]

[balmy condor]

if mana shouldn't matter, get rid of it

make that decision

[oak sky]

Mana shouldnt matter for dps ever besides arcane

[balmy condor]

if they want to design a game where mana isn't important, then remove it

[oak sky]

They all have resources that arent mana

[royal lantern]

i mean, mana doesnt matter for dps cus they use other resources

[grim jay]

#arcaneonlyrealcaster

[oak sky]

Mana is for util spells

I think thats fine

[royal lantern]

for healers, mana is still the main gameplay

[silk bane]

maan stop giving them ideas... theyre gonna give destros 200% haste so they go oom again and be like yeah see? mana matters now

[balmy condor]

idc about giving them ideas, I want them to make a concrete decision on what they want resources to be

[royal lantern]

its weird cus some dps specs have resources

[balmy condor]

since legion they've been trying to make mana important, and then people oom'd so then they nerfed mana costs, but then it wasn't important again, so they changed mana income, but then people oom'd so then they changed it back again

[royal lantern]

and then you have stuff lime fire/frost mage that just have....nothing?

[balmy condor]

rogue has an energy bar, but it hardly matters for any of the 3 specs

when before we were managing energy

[silk bane]

they cant do that right now atleast, if a resource matters, youer gonna need a way to generate it. we have energy talents to give us energy, arcane has mana talents to give them mana back. most other classes dont have such a thing. so they kinda would have to rework them. sad that it wont happen but yeah

[balmy condor]

and then 8.3 happened and they're like YIKES THATS NOT GOOD, RESOURCES DONT MATTER

so then they made it matter

but then it got reverted again

and now we're back to energy being a useless resource

idc what they do, I want them to pick a fucking lane

and then design down that lane

[oak sky]

Fire's resource is crits

[balmy condor]

if energy doesn't matter, okay fine

do something with that

[silk bane]

this right here, i think legit half of sub and sins issue is the free energy, like ofc if i have so much energy im gonna spam gb, and no tons of evis, so obviously non of it can be that impactful and we tet the garbage we got now. and theyre doubling down on even more energy next tier; ah man fuck it imma go play poe

[balmy condor]

but don't seesaw me for half a decade because you're unable to make lasting design decision

[royal lantern]

you mean do 1crit

[oak sky]

2 crits = 1 pyro or firestrike

[royal lantern]

flame blast man

[normal olive]

fire is cringe embrace the 2 button frost

[buoyant pilot]

I just told my guild I'm going to main sin next tier, how fast will I be benched?

[oak sky]

Ask them

[balmy condor]

are you shit at the game?

[silk bane]

nah u coping fires bis. legit only other spec i enjoy outside of rogue

[balmy condor]

if you're shit at the game

you'll be benched

if you're not shit at the game

probably fine